It looks like one of the big stories on election night was low turn-out. Maybe that’s not surprising given that both candidates had low favorability ratings. I’m not sure it’s worth arguing about who’s to blame for this, whether it’s the special snowflake Bernie bro voters or the uninspiring neoliberal shill campaign. (Some of it may be voter suppression but the drop is too big to be explained by that alone.) The bottom line is that it happened, and that we don’t want it to happen again.
So anti-Trump protests, fuck yeah!
Tens of thousands filled the streets in at least 25 US cities overnight — with demonstrations outside Trump’s properties across the country.
Let’s keep the anger and intensity at 11 for four years. The best thing that happened to the Democratic party in my lifetime was the last four years of the Bush administration.
And let’s keep pushing the media to do their fucking jobs. We can’t let them roll over the way they did for W from 2001 to 2004:
I deeply hope that journalists won’t normalize Trump’s behavior, as we started to see in the “Well, I guess Americans just wanted change” narrative on cable news networks as the states started to pile up for him. In fact, as it turned out, his followers wanted to throw the entire government and its values onto the bonfire.
I hope, too, that owners of news organizations are willing to finance court battles, because that seems very likely to be necessary in the months and years ahead. Trump is nothing if not litigious.
[….]If January 2017 isn’t going to herald disaster for press rights — and the citizens served by a free and independent press — we’re going to need some help. We’re going to need some heroes.
Trentrunner
Not sure Blake from Glengarry Glen Ross is an ideal motivational role model, but…he was played by Alec Baldwin, so?…
Trentrunner
Oh, and on “normalizing Trump’s behavior,” Wolf Blitzer just said on CNN (covering Trump arriving at White House), “well, both sides said tough things during the election, but now…”
Obama: “Trump is unfit.”
Trump: “Obama founded ISIS.”
Yup, both sides. Bygones!
Bob2
Why would you tell the journalists to not normalize the behavior when our current president and the last nominee already are.
Run for local office. Run for state seats, congressional seats. Try to get the electoral college changed so every vote matters, which will bring up turnout all across the country in red states.
And hold Breitbart and Fox to the fire instead of giving them free passes on lies like they have in the last 4 years. Demand they fire liars.
Examine how Facebook and friend contacts and twitter contributed to this result as echo chambers got worse and worse. Figure out what happened with Wikileaks and leaks period.
Don’t let the next candidate just play defense hoping to win like Hillary. Call out her shitty advertising. Turnout sucked because Hillary was in the background of her election campaign and not the forefront making her case.
Lois Radford
I’ve spent a couple of really bad nights, trying to reconcile what just happened with the opinion I used to have that, even though there are a lot of a$$holes out there, for the most part, the American people were pretty decent folks.
So far, I’ve been able to talk myself down with two things:
(1) The MAJORITY of American people did not vote for Trump.
(2) The Democrats terribly mis-read the Occupy Wall Street movement. Occupy wanted ALL establishment candidates out. And, that’s exactly what happened in the Republican Party. But, the Democrats picked the most establishment candidate they had. (And the DNC screwed themselves when they screwed Bernie.)
Michael Moore said, he knew Trump was going to get the nomination when he came to Michigan and stood in the shadow of a closed Ford plant and said, “I’m going to tell all auto makers, if you move to Mexico, I’m going to put a 35% tariff on every car you send back here to sell.”
Even though Hillary disowned NAFTA and TPP, it was too little, too late for the unemployed workers in the rust belt. Michael Moore tried to tell Democrats they were losing the blue collar workers but, they didn’t listen to him. They took the working class folks in the mid-west for granted… and they shouldn’t have.
I’m telling myself, on all of the social issues, the ONLY people voting for Trump were the KKK, the Nazis, and the evangelicals. But, where the old union workshops used to be, where the Democrats used to rule, people have been neglected… they’re outta work… and they’re pissed.
NotMax
Point the first:
If Americans “just wanted change” was the driving factor, the Congress would be in D control.
shortribs
I don’t see anything changing until the culture of the press is changed. I want my goverment to govern, my press to inform and my fellow citizens to vote on that information. If the press doesn’t do their job the whole thing breaks and now there’s plenty of evidence for the press to change their ways.
Doug!
@Trentrunner:
In many ways, he is an ideal motivational role model for politics. Nice guy? I don’t give a shit.
Kryptik
@Trentrunner:
One side is riding high on telling a significant number of Americans that they aren’t really Americans and need to get the fuck out along with all the ‘illegals’ and ‘terrorists’ because America just voted to remain White, and fuck you all.
The Other Side said some mean things about the other side acting like bigots.
Both sides, same thing!!
negative 1
@Trentrunner: My guess is he would point to the ‘deplorables’ comment.
Davis X. Machina
A little Jim-Crow-lite, a little dolce-dolce God bothering, and a really shameless candidate, and we’ve got a 60-40 Democratic Senate so fast it’ll make your head spin.
I mean, principles, and all that, but sometimes you just gotta win.
Who’s the southern version of Andrew Cuomo?
Trentrunner
@Doug!: Good father? Fuck you, go home and play with your kids…
JPL
I’m posting Sorkin’s letter to his girls again…
http://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2016/11/aaron-sorkin-donald-trump-president-letter-daughter
scott (the other one)
@NotMax: YES.
negative 1
@Doug!: Incidentally you may not be sure it’s worth arguing about who’s to blame but my guess is we’re going to do it anyway.
Trentrunner
I know Mamet is a RWNJ, so I LOVE teaching Glengarry Glen Ross to my students as a scathing indictment of capitalism’s worst predations…
Hunter Gathers
And while the Press is busy fighting Trump’s lawsuits, Ryan’s budget gets passed and fucks everybody under the age of 50.
negative 1
@NotMax: Not necessarily. Voter trends don’t hold between Congress and *your* Congressperson. Plenty of people are sure the trouble with Congress is everyone else’s choice.
Matt
This is probably just wishful thinking on my part:
As someone who knows nothing about Louisiana politics, what is the likelihood of the Democratic candidate for Senate winning the runoff election? Can the coalition that elected John Bel Edwards be motivated to turnout?
That would put the Senate at 51-49 and if ‘NeverTrump’-ers like Ben Sasse and Lindsey Graham remain ‘Never Trump’ and the Republican Senators from Maine and Colorado can be pressured by voters maybe resistance can actually be semi-effective. Even if the filibuster gets nuked.
Like I said probably just a lot of wishful thinking.
negative 1
@Trentrunner: When did that happen, though? I didn’t think he was a wingnut his whole career. Isn’t Glengarry Glen Ross mean to be read that way? I thought I read that he was a convert.
The Dangerman
Yesterday, I pondered what becomes of the NeverTrumpers and this RedState post shows they are pissed off, too.
Trentrunner
@negative 1: I’m too lazy and passive/aggressive right now to Google it, but my recollection is that Mamet did shift to the right after GGR. But he’s unquestionably there now. (Unless there’s been some very recent re-conversion.)
daveNYC
Nooooope. No need to wield the cudgel of a lawsuit when you can just threaten to withhold access and they’ll all be eating out of his hand.
Want some nightmare fuel?
1) January 21st, Trump sends the most conservative shit weasel he can find down to the Senate as his SCOTUS pick.
2) Democrats filibuster.
3) Republicans give it a week and then nuke the filibuster, claiming that the Democrats provoked them.
4) Republicans then spend the next two years burninating everything via simple majority votes.
JenJen
The protests last night made me feel like I wasn’t so all alone in my anger, and I think we’re going to see a lot of that at the Inauguration.
People forget that Bush’s inauguration was protested. I was one of them. I’m too tired for all that now, so take it away, kids, and thank you.
Gelfling 545
Interesting thing happening on Facebook. I don’t actually have any friends on the dark side, just a couple who are both supides do it types. Several of my friends do, however, especially people of my age. Suddenly, there is The Great Defriending going on. People who for years have been tolerating so and so in spite of their weird right wing views for the sake of auld lang syne have reached the breaking point and cutting ties. I really do believe that we do to a large extent need to shun those who are racist, sexist, homophobic, etc. They will not necessarily change their views because of this but they certsinly will not if we continue to treat ther as just a quirky version of normal. I realize this cannot necessarily be done with close family but really, who WANTS to be friends with the old high school classmate who’s become a bigot antway?
negative 1
@Matt: I don’t think it’s wishful thinking. Runoff elections are notoriously poorly attended. My guess is a real GOTV campaign could swing it, frequently it does. How much infrastructure on the ground does the Louisiana Democratic party have and how much of a deficit does their candidate face?
Ohio Mom
Oh god, why would anyone think the press and media are going to do their jobs any better than they have in the past?
Today I am worried that all the anger will be too dispersed: the women’s health people will be fighting for Planned Parenthood and abortion rights, the conservationists will be fighting to slow down global climate change, the civil rights people will be working for voting rights and against discrimination, etc. All critically important, all things that actual lives will depend on. But will the energy be too divided up, will every fight be able to develop the momentum it needs to succeed?
The other side has really one goal, make the rich richer. One page, not dozens and dozens like we do.
The Moar You Know
Get the fuck off Facebook. Hiding in a community of your friends isn’t helping your awareness of what’s actually going on around you at all.
Doug!
@Trentrunner:
You got it.
kindness
Those out there suggesting Democrats would be better going along with Trumpenstein forget how well that worked out for the Jews in Polish ghettos. I sure hope what ever concentration camp has my name on it isn’t in the deep south.
Albert Z.
Negativland & Chumbawamba The ABCs Of Anarchism just came up on my Pandora playlist and seems strangely soothing now. For your listening pleasure… https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TsyIXqdMZTc
Doug!
@The Moar You Know:
I’m not sure about that. If you think you can convert a few Vichy liberal friends into people who give money, vote, volunteer it’s worth talking to them on any medium.
les
Good fucking luck. And I’m not sure I care–the press hasn’t used its rights for years anyway. Toadies, lickspittles, sensationalists. The best aspire to be stenographers.
Trentrunner
@The Moar You Know: I’d like to have this fight with someone, so it might as well be you:
Because I don’t surround myself with racist, misogynist, proudly ignorant and abusive assholes does not mean I “live in a bubble.”
I’m widely read and traveled, highly-educated, and I do in fact know what’s the matter with Kansas and what hurts in the hearts of hillbillies–but I don’t need to be friends with them.
I don’t need to socialize with these people who hold vile ideas (like wanting to revoke my marriage) to understand what is actually good for our country and our politics. I can fucking read.
Kay
@Ohio Mom:
Agreed. They just weren’t up to covering Donald Trump it wasn’t familiar to them and they didn’t know what to do so they talked about Clinton’s emails for 20 months.
Give up on that. Ain’t happening. He freaking owned them from the get-go and they never recovered.
Peter
@daveNYC: As ugly as that would be, if the only way to preserve the filibuster is to never use it, it might as well not exist anyway. At least in this scenario, Republicans are the ones who nuke the filibuster, so it won’t be there to get in the way when Democrats retake the government (thus we pray).
West of the Cascades
@negative 1: I don’t know about infrastructure on the ground, but in the pre-election polls (take with the appropriately sized grain of salt) five candidates had more than 10%, with the three Republicans totaling 51% and the two Democrats totaling 29%. I fear it’s a fairly strong Republican state, and given the result of the Presidential election more Rs are going to be “inspired” to turn out than Ds.
geg6
I’m out. Until I see something my side is doing that makes any sense at all and does not in any way cooperate with that man’s administration, I’m out. I’ve put forty years of my life into activism. Look where it has gotten me. Not one more dime or minute of my time into wasted efforts.
Felanius Kootea
Hillary won the popular vote. The majority did not vote for racism, misogyny, xenophobia, homophobia, or climate change denial. If we remember this and hold the Democrats in the House and Senate accountable the way the Tea Party did for the Republicans, we can blunt some of the damage.
And yes, I am all for Michael Moore’s approach of repeating the fact that Hillary won the popular vote every day and at each opportunity because I am petty and I know that Donald Trump has a thin skin and this will bother him some.
daveNYC
@Matt: The Republican caucus is a lot more lockstep, and stepping out of line is a pretty great way to get a primary challenge. And likely a primary challenge that the RNC might back, since they have to realize that a Trump presidency is pretty unstable and their majorities are pretty thin. Striking while the iron is hot is the order of the day.
kindness
@Lois Radford: – Oh PLEASE! More of this Bernie would have saved us???? REALLY????
How come I don’t have permission to edit the comment I just made?
Davis X. Machina
@Felanius Kootea:
For the record, the White House and the House of Representatives are now both controlled by a party that lost the popular vote for both.
It’s the same country it was Monday. Now it’s just better than the people running it.
Loneoak
Oh, we’re supporting journalism now? I thought we were supposed to cancel our NYT subscriptions because of something David Brooks said.
mdblanche
Michael Cohen is tweeting out results from different states that show what happened was more nuanced than low turnout.
Kay
@kindness:
I agree with that. The fact is no one knows anything about this person. Trusting him blind is as reckless as electing him in the first place.
Maybe there will be some magical transformation and this 70 year old man will suddenly stop being a lying mean-spirited con but the odds of that are slim.
Doug!
@Loneoak:
I did cancel my NYT subscription. I’ll reinstate it when they grow a spine.
Betty Cracker
It makes me feel physically ill to think of Barack and Michelle Obama welcoming the shit-gibbon and skank to the White House.
geg6
@Lois Radford:
Because women and non-white people aren’t being stomped on hard enough. They don’t care about jobs. I live in one of those places. They have jobs. We aren’t talking about the 1980s. We are talking about the teachers, the plumbers, the hospital workers, people with good jobs. They all voted for Trump around here. The people without work, those women and non-white people, didn’t. So don’t throw this bullshit at me.
Major Major Major Major
@Davis X. Machina: when a democrat does something that goes against what “everybody knows” democrats do, they’re just pandering or somehow secretly selling out, anyway.
tobie
@negative 1: As long as people are still bandying about the term “neoliberal shill,” we’re going to fight. Can’t you just can it, Doug? HRC wasn’t a neoliberal shill, but I thank the Bernie bros for spreading that meme.
oldgold
We were told Clinton had a sophisticated and well financed GOV team out in the field and that Trump had none.
6 or 7 million fewer Democrats voted than in ’08 and ’12.
Who was in charge of her GOV? Any word on why it apparently failed?
Matt
@daveNYC: Yeah. This is probably right. Sadly.
JenJen
@Betty Cracker: I swear, the moment these photos of them together show up, I’m gonna vom.
hovercraft
@Trentrunner:
Weren’t you part of the why are you torturing yourself, watching that shit chorus? If you weren’t then I apologize, but id you were then physician heal thy self. I don’t trust myself to watch any of these assholes opine at the moment. I might stroke out or kill my TV. I’m not going to be a hypocrite and tell you to stop watching, if you feel you have to, have at it, I did. I will say that not watching the last couple of days has been helpful for both my mental and physical well being.
I expect once the initial shock and pain begin to fade I’ll be back to watching the assholes, if only to know what we are up against, you need to know what yo are fighting to know how to fight it.
tobie
@geg6: Amen. I posted this in a thread below:
Peter
@Loneoak: We should support journalism in general. We should not support massive abdication of journalistic responsibility by one of the most respected and widely-read outlets in the country. NYT top to bottom failed on every level this election.
bemused
Yesterday after Obama’s presser, there was a CNN woman reporter covering it who said, “it was servile scene”. ymmv, but I was annoyed by that remark.
daveNYC
@Peter: Absolutely agree. No point in a tool that sits unused. I’m just saying that the Republicans are probably going to force the Democrats to filibuster, and then use that as the excuse to do away with it.
The problem I see (one of many, many problems) is that once that happens, there is virtually nothing that can be done by way of resistance.
Kay
@Felanius Kootea:
Yup. we have a lunatic at the top and a far Right one-Party government who kowtow to the lunatic everywhere else.
That’s the situation. Nothing wrong with dealing with reality.
Lunatic + no checks on his actions + a press corps that has so far failed to hold Donald Trump accountable.
We’re on our own. We’ll be okay though, because there are a lot of us :)
West of the Cascades
@Trentrunner: I had to unfollow a favorite cousin because she posted that she had voted for Trump (in Florida). She never posted anything offensive during the campaign (lots of “both candidates are awful” jokes, but nothing vile about Secretary Clinton) … and the post that triggered me wasn’t crowing or offensive either, just “thank goodness we elected Trump and Pence.” In time I’ll reconnect (I think), but for now we need our safe spaces — and I agree with you that doesn’t mean we are not informed or aware of the world around us.
Ohio Mom
@Kay: I am related by marriage to two newspaper people, a retired state editor and a currently employed lifestyles page editor. They really only care about one thing: is this selling papers?
Trump is great copy, always doing something outrageous. That will sell papers (and eyeballs on the TV screen). Explanations and analyses of the implications and effects of what he, Pence and Congress are destroying, not so much.
Davis X. Machina
@oldgold: Holding serve three terms in a row is hard, all by itself. In my lifetime (60+) it’s happened once — Bush #1. It could be as simple as that.
geg6
@Betty Cracker:
I agree. I couldn’t do it.
And I’m insulted for them that they have to. I hate my fellow Americans today. Not all, but too many of them.
Jacel
Advice to the press:
Starting now, whenever talking to Trump or any person in his administration, ask questions about how they use email. Ask them repeatedly whether everything they send and receive is being preserved for future public scrutiny. Keep asking through the next four years.
Judging from several past Republican administrations (national and state) that hid or destroyed their electronic records, there will be a real news story related to these questions.
And press, remember: Asking these questions is the only thing you learned how to do while covering Hillary Clinton. Don’t let that skill go to waste.
rikyrah
@JPL:
Good letter
Peter
@daveNYC: The worst-case scenario, frankly, would be the Democrats not using the filibuster, the republicans not nuking it, and then the Democrats retaking the chamber with the filibuster still available for Republicans to abuse.
The filibuster is the strongest tool for minority resistance, but it’s not the only one, especially in the Senate.
ArchTeryx
I fear I’m far beyond mad. I’m just in mourning, not least for myself and folks like MomSense. Death is coming surely for those of us vulnerable first, but it may well be coming for us all once Trump gets his hands on the nuclear football. That part I may well not be around to see, though.
That’s my cheery story and I’m sticking with it, and signing off back to lurkermode.
Lolis
Her campaign was not bad IMO. She had good ads, messaging, and discipline. The media handed this thing to Trump along with Comey at the FBI. Our media is not functional. Trump is someone even the Kochs would not support and he won because Democrats got demoralized by all the crap Trump and Republicans threw onto Hillary Clinton. Many liberal people I know fell for the it’s been a negative campaign spin, acting like both sides were responsible.
As for Obama and Clinton, they are trying to preserve our terrible democratic republic which is a rigged system in favor of Republicans and rural America. Everything is terrible, but I do not think Clinton bears much of the blame. She ran as Obama’s third term and he is at 55 percent so it’s not like that was a bad idea.
Jacel
@Davis X. Machina: The two recent times that the Republicans broke a string of Democratic presidents, the Democratic candidate won the popular vote. Never forget that.
JJ
@Lois Radford: Hillary won the rust-belt cities where disaffected workers are. Trump won the rust-belt countryside which turned out heavily for him. This implies that Bernie, a socialist Jew, would have also lost too to Trump’s coalition of white supremisits and wealthy nationalists. The left needs to let go of the romantic idea that “if Bernie ran…” and admit it blew it for attacking Hillary so heavily post-primaries and behave more adequately for us to be able to win anything in the near future.
Kay
Also, Democrats are completely without power. It’s one Party rule. Far Right.
There is no political risk to them for protecting people from the excesses of the lunatic. If they don’t step up and act if nutcase goes off on his political enemies I blame them. These people are supposed to work for all of us.
Patricia Kayden
@Trentrunner: Saying that Trump is unfit is a statement of fact and not comparable to any of the insults that Trump spewed endlessly during his Presidential campaign. But whatever, Wolfie.
Timurid
MomSense
Top headline at google news just now.
“Trump’s Victory Exposes Obama’s Inability to Connect With White Working Class” brought to us by WaPo.
Maybe they should review the actual data from his elections before making that conclusion. Also, too it is his failure to connect with WWC and has nothing to do with the racism they feel despite the fact that the ACA, Recovery Act, restoration of pell grants and student assistance, bailout of the auto industry, etc have all benefited them tremendously.
Ridnik Chrome
@NotMax: People voting for Trump weren’t voting for change. They were voting for chaos.
gogol's wife
@Jacel:
Haha, I won’t hold my breath.
Linnaeus
@MomSense:
Apparently they also forgot that Obama won those states. Twice.
MomSense
@Timurid:
This is why Muslim mothers are telling their daughters not to wear their head scarves and Imams are telling their congregants that it is ok not to.
This is going to get much worse.
Patricia Kayden
@Lois Radford:
Okay. And let’s see what exactly Trump is going to do for these pissed people. My guess is nothing since I don’t recall him making any specific promises to implement policies that would alleviate their situation.
Kay
@Ohio Mom:
They don’t think we’re Real Americans either. They’re like the unpopular people in grade school who shunned the other unpopular people pathetically trying to improve their own standing :)
I never had respect for those people and no one else did either – Trump has made it clear he thinks they’re there to promote Donald Trump. he has utter contempt for them.
Kay
@Ohio Mom:
I think Lewandowski is STILL on the CNN payroll. Unfucking believable.
Patricia Kayden
@Ridnik Chrome: Or they were voting in hopes that “those people” would be hurt by his administration. Just heard a story on Stephanie Miller’s show about a Black woman who was verbally assaulted and threatened by a group of White men. They called her the “N” word, showed her a gun and asked if she was afraid of what Trump was going to do to her kind. This is what Trump has empowered and this is what minorities can expect now.
chopper
i’m still in ‘utter despair’. i’m going to hit ‘anger’ soon enough.
smintheus
Turnout wasn’t great, but it was higher this year than in 2012.
West of the Cascades
@daveNYC: I think you’re right about the Republicans doing away with the filibuster (and good riddance), but I think there’s a lot that can be done in the way of obstruction even within a majority-rule Congress. There are a few Republicans in both houses who are not stupid and probably see their own self-interest (i.e. a long tenure in power) tied to moderating the worst impulses of the crazy wing of the party. In the Senate that looks like Jeff Flake (facing reelection in 2018), Susan Collins (theoretically moderate from blue state), and Marco Rubio (planning to run for President in 2024, or 2020 if certain things fall right for him). Flake and Rubio represent states with large minority populations and large elderly populations, meaning they may be unwilling to go along with truly draconian cuts to Social Security and other elements of the social safety net, because of the chance of that backfiring against their own political ambitions in their specific states.
In the House, I just hope that the infighting among Republicans just results in dysfunction and difficulty in agreeing on whether the Obamacare repeal should just repeal the Affordable Care Act or also include provisions forever wiping Obama’s name from the history books and attainting his family name (so what if Bills of Attainder are unconstitutional! What has that ever stopped the GOP!!). But Democrats staying unified and refusing to roll over (even if they lose vote after vote after vote) has to be a feature of the next several years. The sheer incompetence of the Republicans to govern has to be the big story of 2018 (although it received little attention this year because of the overwhelming attention on the Presidential candidates and all their delicious clickbait).
Jeffro
@The Dangerman: That’s a (mostly) encouraging post at RS. Hopefully with some of them past their Hillz-hate, they might see that it’s the Dems vs. the Trumps now, and they need to pick a side quickly, ’cause they sure aren’t getting their old GOP back anytime soon (or ever).
chopper
@Ridnik Chrome:
and quite a few ostensibly-democrats stayed home for the same reason. the need to be the loser/martyrdom complex is strong in many white liberals.
JenJen
CNBC reporting that Jamie Dimon on Trump short list for Treasury Sec.
That is almost too precious, isn’t it? Drain the swamp, right?
Kay
@Lois Radford:
My son is a union electrician apprentice and he said the Trumpsters were ALREADY complaining about Trump yesterday.
I love my son but Michael Moore romanticizes working people in the rustbelt. It’s not a Bruce Springsteen song. They’re people. Some of them are lovely and some of them are assholes who bitch about everything.
Don’t get too carried away with their noble struggle. Frankly, the most common complaint I hear from young white working class men is about child support. Tell Michael Moore to ask them about that. Let’s not turn them into a WPA mural.
Ridnik Chrome
@Patricia Kayden: I agree. The thing I fear most about Trump’s victory is the green light it gives to the very worst among us. And if it’s this bad now, what do you think will happen if there’s another terrorist attack?
Bobby D
We couldn’t even get the MSM clownshow to hold the orange menace to account when he was a candidate with no institutional power behind him. Now, with intelligence, DOJ/ FBI at his disposal…yeah, GFL with that. Witness Levenson’s repeated engagement with NYT and similar and see where that got him/us. We R FKED.
Tim C.
@smintheus: Depends on where you were. The overall numbers were great in already solid blue states, swing states, not so much.
Kay
@JenJen:
Wow. It’s a big fuck you to his supporters. Oh, well. If they didn’t know he lacked character they’re morons.
Lizzy L
I am angry — which I guess is healthier than the profound shock of Tuesday evening and yesterday — but I am trying to stay away from blaming, because it doesn’t help me. YMMV. The effort to figure out why the Democrats lost is valuable, but again, I’m staying away from it. My crystal ball broke years ago, so I can’t know what Trump and his people are going to do next or how it will affect me, but I am trying to make guesses based on what I know of him, his statements, the views of the people he appears to be listening to, and the stated positions of the Republicans in Congress. I think the ACA is doomed. I think we are headed for a recession within two years. I think life is going to get much bleaker for non-citizens, even legal immigrants. I am worried for my friends in the military. I am hoping that over the next weeks my anger and fear will subside, so that I can make the decisions I need to make from a place of calm.
Because I am an optimist by nature, I have hope that Trump and his friends will not break the country. But the next four years are going to be bleak.
Jeffro
@Betty Cracker:
Agreed, but it can be fumigated once or thrice in January 2021 and made habitable for decent people again.
Ridnik Chrome
@chopper: One of my relatives described his state of mind as “cautiously pessimistic”. He says he’s waiting until there’s something definite to worry about. Pretty much sums up my feelings, too.
Aleta
” keep pushing the media to do their fucking jobs”
Inaugural protest with a mass de-subscribing to cable would make a statement to the cable news channels. Who made the election so ugly, then did stories about how ugly it’s been, then commented on what a relief the ugly election season is over. Can turn it back on later if cannot do without.
Cckids
@shortribs: So much this. Driving to work today, NPR had a long segment about Trump’s business conflict of interest; the money he owes foreign banks & entities, the way his kids will run things instead of a blind trust. They were very SHOCKED AND CONCERNED. It was really, really well done . . . about 6 weeks too late. I’m screaming at them; “Where were you two weeks ago! “, along with lots of swearing. Had to stop because people in other cars were starting to look concerned. But . . . FUCK THE MEDIA.
Linnaeus
@Ridnik Chrome:
I thought the Freikorps would be here already, but maybe it’s only my timing that’s wrong.
FlipYrWhig
@mdblanche: That was fascinating. I still don’t know what to make of it all.
agorabum
In 2012, Romney got 61 million, Obama got 65 million. So from that – here’s who I want to blame –
Every single person who voted for Obama or was otherwise liberal who talked constantly about how terrible both candidates are and all the other false equivalences. Because both the Republican agenda and the Trump agenda were radically different than the Clinton/Democrat agenda, which was basically “Obama +”.
That anger also goes to the Bernie campaign which constantly attacked “the establishment” and “Washington” as incapable of change, rather than identifying the true enemy, the obstructionists in the Republican party.
And of course, the media, for spending zero time on policy and the bulk of its time on bullshit ‘scandals’ relating to Clinton.
The end result of all that is an America that says “we outright reject people who are dedicated, lifetime public servants.” Because if you run down people who took hard jobs in Washington and had to make tough choices, the result is someone like Trump.
BRyan
@Gelfling 545: This.
I wish I was adult enough to question or challenge friends about supporting Trump without it coming across (probably accurately) as snark. I am really having trouble reconciling my view of people I consider friends with the qualities that their support for/approval of Trump and Republican policies tell me about who they actually are. I don’t lightly write off people and longstanding friendships, but how (and why) would/could I justify maintaining a friendship with someone who enthusiastically applauds a guy who is everything I find cruel, rapacious, loathsome and repugnant? People are being ground down, disenfranchised, and people will die if trump delivers on his promises. So far, I can’t find a way to be okay with people who are okay with that. i’m not at all sure I should, or should want to.
Jeffro
@West of the Cascades:
It’s going to take a tough person to stand up for what’s right when Trumpism…and Mercer money…rule the GOP. Collins ain’t that person and Rubio…no way. (And Rubio won’t run in 2020 btw; no R will – it’ll be Trump running again, or Pence running if Trump dies/is removed from office)
Republicans are already kidding themselves that the GOP is going to show any kind of restraint here. You’ve seen Trump’s tax cut plan, right? His plans for big oil and “clean” coal? And so on and so on…
We’ll be broke, we’ll be in hock, we’ll be on our way to YUGE climate change indeed, but we’ll survive it all, unless he follows through with his question from his first official intelligence briefing this summer: “With ISIS – why don’t we use the nukes?”
Linnaeus
@mdblanche:
Thanks for sharing that. Of course Trump and his enablers are going to shout MANDATE!!!!, but the truth is, he won with razor-thin margins in some key states that Obama won in 2008 and 2012.
Llelldorin
I just can’t. I’m sorry–I wish I was the fighter the rest of you are–but I just can’t. I’ve applied for an internal transfer to my company’s Waterloo office.
rikyrah
@MomSense:
this is so wrong.
Lizzy L
@JenJen: In June this year, Trump was saying that he wanted to put the country’s currency back on the gold standard. Jamie Dimon won’t agree to that. I’m FINE with Jamie Dimon.
FlipYrWhig
@Kay:
LOLsob, I can totally see that…
Peale
@Lizzy L: Yep. The Mercers who financed Trump are gold standard folk. I was a little worried about that. Maybe he promised them the Fed Chairmanship after they remove Yellen.
Villago Delenda Est
The problem is the anger cannot be sustained. Vigilance is an energy draining bitch, trying to sustain anger without DOING SOMETHING is even more difficult.
Jeffro
@mdblanche: This is really fascinating, thanks. I’ll especially take this one
28) If any state where the Obama coalition of non-white voters and college whites came through it was VA
to heart!
GrandJury
Got that all you “Millenials voted for Trump because…..Bernie”. Or latinos voted for Trump (my favorite LOL so far).
The problem…which has always been the problem for Dems…was voter turnout. Full stop. In presidential years it’s not as bad as in midterms. So we are truly fucked in 2018….UNLESS…Trump shits the bed soooooo bad that all those people who could not be bothered to put down their video game controller to go out and vote…will go out and vote.
Yea voter suppression is a problem too but not as big as voter turnout imo. If you can get people to turnout then they will find a way even if it is made more difficult for them.
We are not gonna get a voter turn out machine like Obama more than once or maybe just maybe twice in our lifetimes. So cannot count on that. It wasn’t Hillarys fault that she could not turnout people like Obama could. Nobody could do that.
FormerSwingVoter
I’m related to a couple of cops and a navy vet who love dropping N-bombs and whose primary hobby is complaining about “The Blacks” and how much their lives are being ruined by minorities they’ve never met. In a very liberal state.
I’m not sure if I’ll get through Thanksgiving without hospitalizing one of these fuckers.
Corner Stone
@Kay:
If I may quote myself from a previous thread:
“Trump is a complete fucking cypher. We know nothing about what he actually believes or wants. One fucking guy at one paper spent some time on the phone asking about Trumps fucking charitable giving. One guy! And we are all giving him the fucking Pulitzer for doing that much!
Where are Trump’s taxes? Why didn’t every “reporter” lead the interview by asking and then if they didn’t get an answer walk off? And start doing some god damned investigating on their own?
Because they already had a nicely wrapped story, that’s why. Clinton Scandals. Takes no work, easy to summarize, slap a good headline on it and go our for afternoon martinis with the crew.
The media absolutely fucking failed us, including the NYT. They gave him $2B of free airtime because it got them rich, too. In all that time we only know about his charitable giving, thanks to one guy and a phone, and 3 pages of 20 year old tax returns thanks to a leaker. A leaker! Thanks, NYT! “
Villago Delenda Est
@Kay:
This is an issue that can be addressed with the Ramsay Bolton solution.
dogwood
@Bob2:
I’ve had it. Fuck you. The President has a duty to participate in the peaceful transition of power. He will do his duty with dignity and grace. A losing candidate has a responsibility to concede gracefully. This is not normalizing Trumpism. You know what normalizes Trumpism? It’s Bernie Sanders rushing to be the first to say he wants to reach out to Trump.
Ohio Mom
@BRyan: The one bright spot on Wednesday morning was when another autism mom I am friends with texted me, “Can’t believe this.”
This family is very, very Catholic and I always steered away from politics because I did not want to learn they were Republicans. It is a huge relief that they are as devastated as my husband and I are.
I had several friends who are hard core Republicans I told I would not be their friends anymore in the Bush years. Really, if you are going to support the dismantling of the safety net that my kid is going to need for his survival when I am in my dotage and beyond, there is nothing to say to you. I am still regretting bringing a chicken casserole over to the family who went on to help found the Hamilton County Tea Party when grandpa died. That incident showed me there are good deeds that are wasted.
Enhanced Voting Techinques
@The Dangerman:
Yes, every conservative I know on and off line doesn’t seem happy at all and many seem just has horrifed as we are. I gather from their prespective Trump is some idiot conman and liberal mole inside the GOP.
Peale
@Tim C.: Yep. I think that in the end it was close enough that a misallocation of resources was to blame. If ti was true for instance that the campaign was solely based in PA on GOTV in the Philly city and suburbs, and wasn’t all that great in the cities in Wisconsin, I think we have found a problem. Yes, voter supression played a part, but the campaign needed to find voters in more places than it did in those states.
liberal
Yes, it’s obvious from the magnitude of the numbers. Tell it to the math illiterates here.
ruemara
It’s not get mad, unless you need that. It’s stop taking it for granted others will do the work. Stop thinking the gains in rights are set stone. Starting confronting the hate.
liberal
@Enhanced Voting Techinques: Did they vote for Trump?
The old “dog caught the car” thing?
Linnaeus
@ruemara:
Yes. This. The work starts now.
Enhanced Voting Techinques
@daveNYC:
He’s already done that to the Washington Post. Why do you think they were so gleefully anti-Trump? Also, the press isn’t to pleased at Trump using them for infocomerials.
One will note even Fox News hasn’t exactly been swooning all over Trump like one would expect.
bluehill
@Lizzy L: Yes, on a relative basis, Dimon isn’t crazy so that I can live with.
Also as noted, Trump won with fewer votes than McCain or Romney got and obviously Obama. Hillary got fewer votes than Obama did in 2012 which was lower than he got in 2008. So there are people out there who for whatever reason chose not to vote and enough of them to win an election. They are not explicitly supporting Trump.
mai naem mobile
@JenJen: you have to be fucking kidding me. Jamie Dimon? He supported Obama in 08. Good lord. Maybe Trump is a Bill Clinton plant.
Gelfling 545
@JenJen: I’ve been trying to figure out how best to avoid all pictures of That Person. I just cannot tolerate his smug face. I certsinly don’t want the hear remarks or ” speeches” by him either.
chopper
@Ridnik Chrome:
yeah, but we’ve officially thrown out out last real chance to do anything meaningful about climate change. the world my grandkids will inherit is going to be on its way to ruin. that’s what really pushed me over the edge to ‘utter despair’.
if trump blows up the budget, that could eventually be fixed. but there’s no way to turn back once climatic feedbacks start kicking in.
The Moar You Know
@Llelldorin: Don’t have that particular option but I’ll tell y’all this: it’s not going away. It started back in the mid 70s after Nixon got tossed from office and it has never stopped since then. And I (and my wife) no longer have the energy or the ability to keep fighting this. So I want out. As in leave and not come back. Not sure how we’re going to manage this but I’m determined to. America, whatever it is, is a failed experiment. And I and mine are not going down with the ship.
Felonius Monk
@Lizzy L:
i honestly do not believe that Trump has any idea what that means. He was handed something to say and he said it. I’m fine with Dimon too, if it thwarts this kind of horseshit.
rdldot
@Betty Cracker: ditto
hovercraft
@Lois Radford:
Stop with this bullshit narrative.
Occupy refused to sully themselves with pesky little shit like running for or endorsing candidates. They may have had some worth while ideas about the rigged economy, but they didn’t do anything but protest, bitching gets you attention, but it doesn’t get you anything.
Establishment means people who know how to govern. The rethug outsiders were simply different faces slapped onto the same defunct policies bankrolled by the same corrupt people who’ve always run the GOP. As “outsiders” they were less polished and more crazy, but they no more had the best interests of the country than their predecessors did. Bernie Sanders, Ron Paul and Dennis Kucinich have all spent their careers railing against the establishment promoting policies that will never be adopted by our congress. All three of them profess to be purity ponies, and yet all three have participated in the bullshit their entire careers. Paul was against earmarks, but inserted them right along with everyone else, then turned around and voted against the bills once he was sure he would get his. Bernie is anti war and all that, but still supports defense contractors so long as they are providing jobs to his constituents. They are politicians, that’s what they do. The GOP did not clean house, they simply succumbed to the most rabid part of their base. There was no reform there, they simply tried to appease their rabble, and in the process they were consumed by it. They won, but at what price? When millions of people start to receive cancellation notices, or for those who don’t notices of how much their rates are going up. And if they don’t repeal Obamacare their never ending mantra since 2010, what will those angry hordes do? They promised the moon knowing they could never deliver, and sadly for us and them, they no longer have an excuse not to deliver. They control everything, so it’s all in their power to erase everything the black man did to this country. This is the true source of this backlash, not they lack of any reaching out to these assholes. They’ve blamed everything on Obama, we all laughed at the “Thanks Obama” meme because it was so ridiculous, but we shouldn’t have. It was insidious and it penetrated deep into the minds of millions of people that everything that is wrong in this country is and was Obama and the democrats fault. We let the media brand us as a bunch of whinny hippies while they pretended that FOX and the GOP’s constant whining was valid. The GOP spread with the help of the media allowed the GOP to spread the lie that the democratic party had abandoned the WWC, in order to cater to the needs of “special interests” and people of color. The democratic party has plenty of faults, they are by no means perfect, but what political party that ever hopes to actually win anything is? This was the most progressive platform in forever, but no on cared because Hillary Clinton is a politician? Enough with this shit, once a person runs for office, they become a politician, now we get to live the Berlosconi experiment without the benefit of a parliamentary system where he could be removed.
Every policy position the democrats ran on was to benefit the working class and the poor, and yet they were branded as elitist, while the party who’s entire platform and raison d’etre is to cater to the 1% and corporate America is branded as the party of the people. There is something so very wrong with this, especially when it’s coming from morons on our side who’ve bought into this GOP and media created fantasy. Pull your fucking head out of your ass. We’ve been played, they pitted everyone else against each other so they can continue to rape and pillage our economy while we’re too busy fighting each other.
MM and his ilk need to stop with the nostalgia for the party of their youth, as the nation has changed so have the parties. This is natural and normal, a nation with a two party system need both parties to have constituents, if everyone is in one big tent then that party will become too powerful, we want both to compete for everyone, but their core will be different, that’s just reality.
D58826
@Lois Radford: Again with all due respect, and not disputing the impact of NAFTA/TPP on the election/economy but the industrial heartland became the rust belt in the early 80’s. In the 80’s I worked for a company that was affected by the collapse of big steel. The term was in common usage. NAFTA and the not yet approved TPP had absolutely nothing to do with creating the rust belt. There are a number of foreign auto plants, as well as a new airbus plant in the Trump as a result of various trade negotiations. Every time a Trump voter goes into a Wal-mart (or China Inc as I call it) they are benefiting from open trade and trade negotiations between the US and foreign countries. But like ‘e-mail’ scandal NAFTA is a good shorthand scarce word. And from what I understand TPP was as much an attempt to counter the growing Chinese influence on the Pacific rim as it was a purely trade deal.
Lizzy L
@Gelfling 545: Ho, that’s easy. Turn off your fucking TV.
The Moar You Know
@chopper: China and India have picked up our slack. We never had a chance of fixing it, even if America went 100% solar tomorrow the CO2 count will still keep climbing.
GrandJury
Nothing changes until the press changes and starts doing their fucking jobs. So far WaPo is the only one that seems to be trying to do something. For doing that Trump already said he’s going to go after them and Amazon and Bezos.
The press needs to be pounding on shitstain in chief and repubs 24×7 like they have been doing to Dems. There is no excuse not to because there is no longer a second side in the mythical “both sides do it”.
liberal
@Corner Stone:
Here’s a clip from an email I sent to a friend today:
Villago Delenda Est
@Felonius Monk: Winston Churchill once commented that his greatest regret was putting Britain back on the gold standard, because the effect was to toss the economy in the shitter.
Goldbugs have no fucking idea, not the slighest clue, how money works. You can tell they never read The Wealth of Nations nor have they ever shared a few pitchers of sangria with the Spanish Hapsburgs.
mai naem mobile
You want to subscribe, subscribe to the Wash Post. Putins Bitch has already said crap about Jeff Bezos and Amazon’s taxes. Apart from Farenthold, Bezos is one of the few with deep enough pockets to take on Putins Bitches’ lawsuits. NYT is bleeding money and I doubt can afford expensive lawsuits.
Kay
I told you guys:
Media, Trump and Republicans all bellowed for 24 months that Clinton was guilty of a crime. Lock her up was based on the fake email scandal.
If they drop this bullshit now the base knows they got played again. It’s scary. They may take it all the way and make up a crime. With Rudy and his far Right band at the FBI I wouldn’t be at all surprised.
bluehill
@Enhanced Voting Techinques: I read a article a while back talking about how the traditional supporters of both parties were changing and this could lead to very different looking parties in the future. I guess kind of like of the exodus of Southern Democrats in the 60s and 70s. Don’t know if it’s positive or negative, but maybe a new coalition will come together.
Patricia Kayden
@Betty Cracker: I’ve heard that Trump and his family may not even live in the White House which makes sense since he may own several homes bigger and more impressive in his mind than the lowly Presidential abode. I feel bad for the Obamas, however, to know that their legacy will be followed by such an odious First Couple. Huge sigh.
FlipYrWhig
@Lois Radford:
Instead of having a primary over months with millions of votes cast, we definitely should have listened to an incoherent hyper-intellectual protest movement that petered out in a month.
Villago Delenda Est
@GrandJury:
They are doing their jobs. Generating revenue for their corporate paymasters. That’s the only actual job they have. Providing information that is grounded in the real world, in reality, is not part of their job description. Get that foolish notion out of your head right now.
My nym is one way that will work. It won’t be pretty, but it will work.
JMG
Stop watching cable news. It kills brain cells. I would cut the whole cable cord if it wasn’t for live sports in HD. Look, it’s only been 36 hours since the disaster. Wounds are still raw. The Democrats in Congress can’t respond to proposals because they haven’t been made yet. This is a time for thinking hard and regaining energy. I know Democrats didn’t turn out as needed. I sure don’t know why. Anything I said would be just a guess. So I won’t guess.
Felonius Monk
@chopper:
You have a congress full of tea party people who are adamantly opposed to blowing up the budget, unless they’ve being lying to everyone for the past 8 years. So right now I’m not worried about Trump blowing up the budget. Most of what Trump said he is going to do requires massive expenditures by the Federal government. If it comes to pass, then Republican hypocrisy will be exposed once again. I guess we will find out soon enough.
liberal
@GrandJury: As I’ve said before, we can’t rely on the press to point out any of this stuff. I don’t know if it’s because they’re whores or just stupid, but they’re useless and will continue to be useless.
Enhanced Voting Techinques
@Kay:
No, that’s not what happened. Trump is a media celebrity and has his own show, so he was judged by a different set of rules. That’s why his voters didn’t care that Trump is a sexists, bullying, racist, idiot, clueless, incompent, liar and likely traitor, that’s the character.
Villago Delenda Est
@Kay: The base is frankly too stupid to know that they’ve been played. Ever. This is classic Dunning-Kruger.
D58826
Please Please make it stop. CNBC is reporting that Trump is considering Jamie Dimon for Sec. of Treasury. You know the CEO of Goldman. The banker that Hillary gave all of those boilerplate speeches for. I can’t even think of something snarky at this point. If someone had written up this election as a novel or sci-fi book, the publisher would have had that person committed.@hovercraft:
I always love that framing. The teachers union is a special interest but the hedge funders and their carry interest deduction are not. Yes the democrats have programs aimed at POC but they also have programs aimed at people with lack of color. Obamacare doesn’t look at skin color and the big ag farm subsidies or the gentleman farmer deduction goes mostly to white folks.
GrandJury
@chopper: He’ll find a way to nuke the climate. I mean literally nuke it. That will show that bitch mother nature who’s boss.
liberal
@Felonius Monk: Yeah, this is the really interesting part.
From what I can tell, the Tea Party Caucus really believes all the crap they spew. If that’s true, they’re going to cause a recession when they cut the budget deficit to zero.
On the other hand, maybe it will be like Reagan—they’ll create tons of Keynesian stimulus through increased military spending, and make some offsetting cuts here and there but not enough, and deficits will soar. That would be very good for them politically, because the economy would grow (even if it’s a stupid way to grow the economy).
But I think the temptation to gut the non-military part of the government will be too strong.
Patricia Kayden
@Kay: Just shows how different the parties are in this country. Democrats didn’t even consider investigating the war crimes that Bush, Cheney and ilk committed during and after the lead up to the unnecessary Iraq war. Nor did Democrats consider investigating those who engaged in financial misconduct which lead to the economic collapse at the end of Bush’s second term. But Republicans are already promising to keep up the investigations into Secretary Clinton’s perfectly legal actions indefinitely. And no one cares and they will not suffer any consequences for doing so.
liberal
@D58826: Yes! He’s representing all those poor, poor white people who have been so slighted by coastal liberal elite snobs like myself!!1! And the best way to do that is to appoint Jamie Dimon!!1!
And those stupid fucking white trash wonder why we look down our noses at them.
liberal
@Patricia Kayden:
Yes, and let it be stated for the record that both of those actions constituted a terrible dereliction of duty.
Shalimar
I have finally settled on my response to anyone who tells me they were a Trump voter: “I pray that you will eventually be able to repent and seek forgiveness from God for the horror you have unleashed on the world.”
D58826
@Kay: CF will be next if the rogue FBI has it’s way. Rudy has already said long and loud that the Clintons are totally corrupt. Former FBI SAC Kallstrom claims they are an organized crime family.
Any bets on Kallstrom or Bernie Kerick being the special prosecutor. Ken Starr is busy with his sex scandal so might not be available.
liberal
@Villago Delenda Est: Whether they’ve been played on lockin’ up Shillery isn’t that interesting.
This idea that he’s going to appoint a bankster to Treasure is much, much more interesting. What a bunch of fucking idiots they are. We might all go down in a fire, but it’s going to be fun laughing at these stupid fucks in the meantime.
the Conster, la Citoyenne
The media isn’t one thing – there are good journalists, but their expertise is confined to small print in one or two newspapers that are read by self-selecting people seeking out information. The cable “news” can’t do their job, because they don’t even know what that means. There is nothing that will change about that.
liberal
@D58826: LOL.
Enhanced Voting Techinques
@tobie: Yes, that sounds like my realtives and I did occure to me that Biden had a better chance, because of that whole regular guy thing Biden has. I mean look at the way The Onion makes fun of him. But I think it would have had to have been Biden refusing to discuss policy at all and turning into a dick wagging conest with Trump for Biden to win.
liberal
@Villago Delenda Est: What really amused me is that Jim Grant, who is a right-wing guy who supposedly knows a lot about money, really thought that pumping all this money into the banks was going to cause rampant inflation. He’s so fucking stupid he doesn’t realize that if the money isn’t loaned into circulation, it has no effect at all.
kindness
I was reading the most recent Rolling Stone and in an article about Trump (yea the week prior to the election) they repeated the words of an un-named Democratic Senator who said other Republican Senators aren’t crazy. He said that on many issues those same Republicans would agree with him that some thing needed to be done but quickly said they were powerless to do anything while Barack was President.
I say, start by naming names. Break out the torches & pitchforks and when a Republican approaches you to support something or other say you’d love to help them but you can’t while Trumpenstein is in power. They made the rules. Let them live by them.
Bobby D
I am laughing my azz off with these cabinet position trial balloons.
“Drain the swamp”…by putting all the 90s/00s GOP re-tread failures into place. Rudy, Newt, and Jamie fkin Dimon. We need a SuperPac commercial up within days of Dimon’s appointment, reminding everyone of his role in the great crash/recession. Maybe with Sen Prof Warren doing the voiceover narrative.
“The global banking elite, like Trumps’ latest cabinet pick Jamie Dimon, received a huge bail out during the financial crisis, with YOUR money. After putting the world economy on the brink of destruction, and destroying millions careers, lives, and financial futures, Trump is rewarding him with a cabinet post! Unreal. So much for “drain the swamp”, just one con man looking out for another con man. IMPEACH!”
schrodinger's cat
This is a great country and worth fighting for, ask the millions who have voted with their feet to come here. We cannot give up without even a fight. I am meeting some writing buddies for coffee, doubt whether we will get any writing done, will probably just commiserate. The three of us represent three religious and national heritages, where else but in America is this likely to happen. The idea of America is worth fighting for.
Adria McDowell (formerly LurkerExtraordinaire)
@MomSense: this is allowed under Islam: to hide one’s faith if your life depends on it. And sadly, for them, it is.
So much for the “religious freedom” our new neo-Nazis have been harping about. But then again, it’s never been about that for them, really, just about control and hatred.
D58826
@liberal:
They probably were but would the investigation have really told us anything we didn’t already know? And at the same time would have just poured flaming oil on the already partisan divide. Obama was trying save the economy and maybe reduce the partisan divide. Well he got half of it and maybe the most important half at the time.
Bailey
@oldgold:
I would like to know this as well. She had enough money on hand to guarantee a virtual army on the ground on election day. Did her big data go tits up like Romney’s did?
Enhanced Voting Techinques
@liberal:
\
Brand loyality and the polls said Trump was going to lose so they had to stick to the damn hippies with a protest vote. Though a few did vote libertarian.
As you said, dog catches car.
liberal
@The Moar You Know: There is of course the opportunity to fix it. But as you say, it requires a huge amount of cooperation between nations, in addition to the technological issues (which IMHO are underestimated). That’s why I wasn’t so upset with the idea about him nixing the Paris agreement; we’re so far off from a solution, it’s going to be a long struggle anyway.
daves09
Have been trying not to think about it, but about every five minutes it starts to float up-Trump is president of the US.And then the stunned disbelief starts again.
Last week-before the election-I told my roommate that his rwnj family was no longer welcome in my house-I think he was relieved.
Have been running and working out at the university. Have heard only two people talking about the election, two young women trying to figure out how Trump won. One of them said * if I’d known this would happen I would have voted. It is possible to sob and laugh at the same time.
Here in Reno I gave money, gave time, voted and lost, so election night I told myself I was done with politics. But here in Nv. we won all the way around and if one of the most conservative states in the US can be turned around, there is hope.
Avant, avant, avant you bastards.
liberal
@hovercraft:
Can we please dispense with this bullshit?
There are plenty of people who know how to govern who are outside the true, core establishment.
liberal
@Bailey: There’s an article in the NYT I think that says it did.
Remember, she didn’t visit WI at all, IIRC.
GIGO.
liberal
@D58826:
Yes, that’s the whole point: Congress has the subpoena power.
I don’t give a shit about the actual, pointless in-person hearings. I’m talking about using the subpoena to dig up more shit.
My Truth Hurts
It is worth arguing about and the Democrats are to blame. But keep sticking your head in the sand and expecting the same results.
Enhanced Voting Techinques
@The Moar You Know:
That’s always been the sucko thing about it – that a big part COs of it is lots and lots of poor people using charcoal stoves and bad motorcycle engines. How do you tell someone who is at the substance level they have to get an electric car and stove?
D58826
@the Conster, la Citoyenne: THe other problem is that evern at the big dailies like WAPO and NYT with the downsizing many of the expert subject matter desks/reporters have been let go. The result is the more generic general assignment report covers science, economics, foreign affairs, etc. Not only don’t they have the education in those subjects but they don’t have the sources. Yea I know NYT-Judy Miller but I think the point is still valid. They have also downsized their foreign desks so there is almost no coverage by people who understand the country, live in the country, speak the language. Ever notice where ever there is a foreign crisis there is MSNBC’s Richard Engle? Or CNN’s Christine amananpor? You might disagree with what they are saying but they are the only reporters they have. MSNBC will bring in Chris Dickey from Paris on occasion. He used to be the Newsweek bureau chief back in the day. Now works for the daily beast.
sukabi
@Hunter Gathers: naw, you’re being too kind. Ryan and crew will fuck everyone, no matter their age. (Only exemptions will be rich, white loyal repubs)
dogwood
@Aleta:
The media won’t do their jobs. The narrative of the outcome of this election was determined before a single vote was cast. If we won, Democrats need to reach out to the bigots who lost. And if we lose, we are responsible for reaching out to these people as well. In the eyes of the media, angry white voters are the only people that matter. It’s the only story they know how to tell. It’s Obama’s fault that he can’t connect with white bigots. They will never tell the truth about who these republicans really are because they want their business. They know democrats will keep watching because we’re suckers. If millions of democrats cut their cable connection and turned off the news they would change their tune. One of the reasons protest aren’t that effective is because they don’t really have an economic effect. From now until the inauguration the task of the media will be to fluff the upcoming Trump administration and go after Obama. They don’t have Hillary to kick around anymore, so he’s the next villain. Any democrat who is paying to watch that shit is a masochist and an enabler.
liberal
@D58826:
Heh
D58826
@liberal: True but adding twenty pounds of manure to a twenty pound pile only gets you more manure not a new pile. If Congress had been distracted from saving the economy and bailing out the auto industry it might not have been a good trade off. And no matter what they found the GOP would not believe it, the democrats already believed it, the public would view it as inside the beltway baseball and there would not have been any criminal prosecution.
schrodinger's cat
@MomSense: Not all Muslims wear head scarves, its always been a matter of choice. Most Indian Muslim women for example only cover their heads when they pray.
ChrisGrrr
@shortribs: Money talks. The goal and motivation of national press owners has never been clearer. Same is true, even if the motivation is different, of their talking heads. There is no objectivity that is profitable enough, and there never will be.
I don’t know if the social media concept can be extended – disseminating confirmable information to the actual satisfaction of white college-educated voters – but nearly every top-market web outlet and broadcast network is completely beyond redemption. Trustworthy alternatives must be made, found, monitored… kept to task.
Enhanced Voting Techinques
@bluehill: I would belive it. I am a traditional Republican who turned Democrat. But deeper than that, the GOP is truely dysfunctial. My brother in law tried to define what the Republicans stand for and can’t, they are just four fueding factions each with their own agenda. Trump has no conections to the GOP, was a Democrat up until recently and they couldn’t stop him from taking their own party over. That shouldn’t happen.
Bailey
@liberal:
God, I had missed that part about not campaigning in Wisconsin.
I haven’t slept well at all the last two nights. I keep waking up, wanting to scream at all the moronic things this campaign did and struggling to understand the rationale why. “Let’s go campaign in Texas and Georgia and leave Wisconsin alone!” “Let’s call Trump supporters ‘Deplorables’ and give them something to rally around while appearing smug and punching down!” “Let’s not bother to craft an overall narrative at all and just assume not being Trump is enough to win a general election.”
I’d go take a nap today but I’m afraid I’d wake up screaming again.
D58826
Trump transition team says will dismantle Dodd-Frank: BBG
and Huffington lede anout WH meeting – dignity meets disgrace.
D58826
@Bailey: THey figured WI was safe blue not a battleground state. But are the voters of WI such special snow flakes that they need a person visit from the candidate. They spent a lot of time in PA, Ohio, NC and FLA and it didn’t do much good.
Every one is looking for a short straight line to a magic bullet that says if she had only done THIS all would be good. That bullet doesn’t exist.
Patricia Kayden
@D58826:
By continuing the nonsense investigations into Secretary Clinton’s email usage goes to show that Republicans could give a damn about the partisan divide or shoving our faces into the mud despite their win last Tuesday. We’ll be hearing about Clinton “scandals” for years to come.
Peale
@Patricia Kayden: Yeah. I think after a few months even their own voters will get tired of it. She’s not going to be running again for office. So investigate away!
ETA: I guess Chaffetz gets to stay in the news so that when he runs for governor or senator people in his state know him. But really, I know the “base” hates her now, but even they might get bored.
Villago Delenda Est
@liberal:
They deserve to be serfs.
Enhanced Voting Techinques
@Bobby D:
I know, the idea of “Secretary of State Newt Genrich” is just a howler. I mean the guy spent the whole time as Speaker sulking and fighting with people when he wasn’t gassing on about being the smartest guy in the room. At lest with Rice, Powel and Baker they could be expected to act with some dignity when representing the country.
Patricia Kayden
@D58826: Trump just called President Obama a “wonderful man” or words to that effect during the meeting with POTUS at the White House. That should thrill his White Supremacist supporters.
sukabi
@Jeffro: wh is going to need a serious remodel once he’s gone to get rid of all the gold leafing, mirrors and drumpf portraits that will be on everything.
Hope there’s someone responsible for taking care of the actual artwork and historical items.
Patricia Kayden
President Obama needs to pardon Secretary Clinton before Giuliani and his ilk find her guilty of “crimes”. If he doesn’t, he’s setting her up for imprisonment.
Peale
@D58826: Well the good news is that I’m going to assume that they’re also going to repeal Sarbanes Oxley as well, so we’ll be back to the days of fraud in financial markets. I’ll give it 4 years before the big banks need another bailout and this time I’m not really on board with keeping the system functioning.
Bob2
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/commentary-the-unbearable-smugness-of-the-press-presidential-election-2016/
Bitter Scribe
To be fair, the media, along with most of the rest of the country, rolled over for Bush from 2001 to 2004 because of 9/11.
And of course, if a similar horrific attack had taken place during Obama’s first term, the entire country, including his opponents, would have rallied around him in a similar way with no one trying to score any cheap political giggle snort oh Christ I can’t keep that up till the end of the sentence.
SgrAstar
@D58826: Jamie Dimon is not the head of Goldman Sachs. He’s the boss of Morgan Stanley. In DT’s crowd he’s gonna look like Einstein.
hovercraft
@liberal:
I don’t believe it’s bullshit. Obama was an establishment politician, he came up through the Illinois machine, and is the best president of my lifetime. There are good and bad politicians within the system, being an outsider sounds great till you bring in someone like Jimmy Carter, who is a great man but didn’t know anything about Washington, so he made many big mistakes. Being an insider is what made LBJ a great president domestically, foreign policy wise he was a disaster (Fuck LBJ, obligatory for Raven).
Knowing how to work the system gives you a much better chance at succeeding than being an outsider. Politics like medicine is best performed by those who have acquired the knowledge and practiced who it’s done properly.
dexwood
@sukabi:
Don’t forget his name in lights on the roof.
FlipYrWhig
@Bailey: The Clinton campaign had a distinct positive message about inclusion, diversity, and respect. You may not like the way they dispensed that message, but it was there.
Nobody in the know saw WI coming: late polls in WI had her up 4, 6, and 7, and in MI, 7. It looked like desperation by Trump to go there. (Source.) Georgia and Texas were on par or closer. (Source.)
The whole point of the “deplorables” remark was to say that THE OTHER PORTION OF THE TRUMP ELECTORATE had legitimate economic grievances. Meanwhile Trump insulted people by the millions daily, and it didn’t hurt him at all. Your story doesn’t add up.
Villago Delenda Est
@hovercraft: LBJ’s handling of Vietnam was very much from an “insider” perspective, in that he dreaded being accused of “losing Vietnam” as Truman had been accused of “losing China”, when both situations were beyond the control of the US President. Not that this stops fascist vermin from throwing that out there in any circumstance. The world is very binary to them, even though they can’t count beyond 10.
geg6
@Bob2:
The asshole gets it half right. The media are smug assholes who don’t know a damn thing about anything.
But the egregious mistake he makes is the one a lot of people here and elsewhere are making and that is that Trumpism is about economics.
I LIVE WITH THESE PEOPLE EVERY FUCKING DAY. THEY ARE NOT-REPEAT-NOT UNDER ECONOMIC STRESS.
The only stress they have is their racial and sexual animus. They have good jobs. They live in nice homes. If their kids are on heroin (which they are), it’s because mom and pop Trumpster foisted prescribed pain meds on them and then couldn’t provide a fix forever, so the kids turned to smack. I know these people. Quit making them out to be some noble bunch of economically beaten down poor people. THEY ARE NOT.
Davis X. Machina
@FlipYrWhig: You were supposed to wait until the popular will spontaneously raised up new leaders who spoke with the authentic voice of the people, dummy.
Villago Delenda Est
@FlipYrWhig: My big question is how could the polls have been so very, very wrong about WI and MI? What in their methodology was wrong?
Don’t expect anyone to explain…I’m sure the pollsters themselves are wondering how badly their methods were to miss by so much.
dogwood
The fight to take this country back is not going to be a fight about policy. It is a fight about decency, civility and moral character. The first thing republicans did decades ago was to brand themselves as the party of family values, patriotism and decency. They know their policies aren’t popular, so they made their brand popular. People will will accept bad policies and justify them based on tribal affiliations. One of the biggest deplorables of them all, Glenn Beck said Michelle Obama’s NH speech was the moment when the Democrats became the party of family values. The Obama brand is pure gold when it comes to appealing to a majority of the American electorate. We have to transfer that brand to the party in general. It won’t be as easy for us as it was for the Republicans during Reagan. Their ideologues were pragmatic. Our ideologues believe Obama is the problem and all we have to do is scream louder and protest more. The Reagan revolution was lethal, and didn’t involve millions of protesters taking to the streets.
Davis X. Machina
@schrodinger’s cat: Many non-Arab Muslim women — Indonesia, the subcontinent, the Balkans — resent the pressure to do so.
FlipYrWhig
@Villago Delenda Est: I’m confused about the polling too. It seems to me that Trump’s success surprised even Team Trump. Maybe not getting enough of a snapshot of these smaller precincts in those states, where Trump seemed to do _much_ better than Romney?
Captain C
@MomSense: In the teen writing workshop at my library, one of the girls who used to wear a headscarf doesn’t anymore, because some jerkwad at her school tore it off her head.
Villago Delenda Est
@Captain C: So much for Freedom of Religion.
Bailey
@FlipYrWhig:
These are not policies or objectives or narratives really.
Trump had “build that wall” / “tear up trade agreements” / “only I can fix it” / “crooked hillary.” HRC had the limp “Stronger Together.”
Which begs the question – what were the internal polls saying? How distant was the relationship to the campaign and the field offices? What were they learning in all their voter contacts? How were their voter registration drives going and/or were they even running any? All during 2008 and the Obama machine we heard extensively about how they were registering new voters and bringing them into the Dem tent. For that many people to not show up on election day is profoundly meaningful and not something that happens overnight. There was clearly a much larger disconnect than just not campaigning in WI because they thought they had it in the bag. I doubt their communication was very good throughout.
I think you don’t realize what that statement did. The fact that anyone is still to this day defending it (and not realizing how dumb it was) is one of those millions of factors of why our team loses. You cannot on one hand chant “they go low, we go high” and then go stupidly low. That’s what “deplorables” was—going low. And not going low in a smart way, but going low in way that made it plausible to say that both sides were running contemptible campaigns. Anytime you have to immediately walk something back and then try to explain that you really meant that some of the voters had legitimate economic issues, you can damn well know it was a stupid thing to say. Even more frustrating is the thought that they planned that comment in advance and thought it was clever. Instead it gave Trumpers a rallying cry.
Comparing how democrats behave, and what they find acceptable, to how republicans behave, and what they find acceptable is a losing battle. We should not be saying, “well they suck more.” That isn’t a way to win arguments or elections. We just need to not suck at all. And the “deplorables” decision sucked out loud.
Cain
So, lot of great commentary about the state of things. I don’t know if reflection is going to help much. But we do know is that the rust belt has flexed their muscles and shown us that we can’t do shit without appeasing them somehow.
I don’t know how, if it is truly about economic stuff, I don’t know what to tell them.. and if they are under 50, they are going to get fucked some more if social security goes away. If they were counting on it, they may not get it. All in all, this is a unmitigated disaster.
I have no confidence that the midterms are going to be much better.
That said, the republicans are going to have even more infighting than they have now and Trump is going to cause it. Again, he is the lord of chaos. I also believe he is only in it for one term.. enough to make whatever profit for his businesses and then leave… the fact that the fool is going to get secret service protection afterwards really pisses me off.
Villago Delenda Est
@Cain: This may turn out to be the most Pyrrhic victory in the history of American politics. Donald holds grudges. He will not demonstrate any grace; he’s no Barack Obama.
Davis X. Machina
@Cain: A little Jim-Crow-lite, a little dolce-dolce God-bothering, and a popular war, and we’re right back in this.
Just win, baby. 60-40 senate here we come. It won’t come without costs, mind you…
FlipYrWhig
@Bailey:
From what I’ve gathered, everyone’s internal polls, including Trump’s, agreed on the state of the race, and all were wrong. There was a story about Barbara Comstock, House candidate in Virginia, whose internal polls had her race as a tie, and she won by 10%.
sukabi
@Bob2: wow, that’s some delusional shit right there.
Applejinx
@Lois Radford:
That’s not strong enough. Trump didn’t get as many REPUBLICAN votes as McCain or Romney even while running against literally goddamn Hillary Clinton!
It ain’t like the ‘vote of no confidence’ rests solely on Clinton. The Republicans had CLINTON to run against and Trumpism is so bad and stupid that they very nearly LOST. Never mind the Dem arrogance and polling fail and belief that he was gonna be crushed. We (Dems) did horribly, incredibly poor and weak, and STILL came within a grabbed c**t hair of beating him. That’s how weak a performance Trump put in.
No mandate! for anybody!
sukabi
@Villago Delenda Est: maybe they were polling people who thought they were registered, but had their voting rights blocked by the new restrictive id laws…and maybe there was some roll purging going on that bumped more voters off.
sukabi
@Villago Delenda Est: not just that, he’s surrounded himself with little men and women who are just the same petty, mean, spiteful no nothings as he is.
Applejinx
@Hunter Gathers:
Depends on how bad Trump hates Ryan. CALL it ‘Ryan’s budget’, but let Trump file the names off Obamacare and rename it TrumpCare and claim it’s way betterer. Why should Trump want to indulge someone who got in his way, betrayed him, and then comes around wanting to tell him how to budget?
Frankly, Trump could probably write a budget as well as Ryan. Because Ryan’s bullshit is just as bad. Ask Krugman.
dogwood
@Bailey:
You are spot on about the “deplorable” remark. The day she said that I came here to check out the panic level, and everyone was cheerleading. Sometimes when I read this blog I think I must be the only person here who has white liberal democratic friends who aren’t political junkies. I would never want any of them to read this blog and be confronted with people who have no sense of or respect for their sensibilities. They will will be voting democratic and doing community service long after the Trump protesters wear out, and the Sanders revolution fizzles out. They are the white voters that Obama always understood, like the ones who flocked to him in Iowa, and paved the way for his presidency. Yelling “fuck white people” is cathartic but doesn’t accomplish much.
Villago Delenda Est
@dogwood: I cordially invite you (and Bailey) to find fires to die in.
artem1s
There was plenty of anger turned up to 11 after W and SCOTUS stole the election in 2000. He had eggs thrown at him on inauguration day and had to abandon the traditional walk down Pennsylvania avenue. As a result, we saw ‘protest zones’ and then 9/11 happened and no one outside the inner circle got close to W for the next 7 years. Cheney pretty much spent his entire tenure in an undisclosed location.
Keeping the dial at 11 will only be possible if some larger distraction doesn’t intervene.
Applejinx
@oldgold:
The only part I know is, I learned to GOTV on the Bernie campaign in the primary. When I got back into it (NOBODY asked or reached out and in the end I had to literally ask a canvasser asking for money, for a place I could go to volunteer. Months pre-election and there was never the faintest hint that I should or even could go out and work for Hillary, just give all the money)
…when I got back into it, I was doing the same data entry thing in the only MoveOn field office in New Hampshire. All the other organizers were working out of their cars, and our office in Keene was donated space.
We were sending canvassers all over the place, such as deeply rural Sullivan County. And the canvassers were coming back and saying that when they did manage to speak to people (i.e. find the houses, knock on doors, talk), the people said that no Democrat canvassers had been there at all, ever. They were forgotten and ignored until MoveOn sent canvassers out to see them.
Sometimes we had to flip voters by telling them that electing Hillary and Maggie Hassan would give other things, like make Bernie chair the Budget committee. We did everything we could even when the voters were hostile or pissed off with us.
That’s anecdotal, but it was New Hampshire which is not all that big, and New Hampshire is a state that Hillary had to win. It sounds to me like they were canvassing and recanvassing downtown Keene. I don’t know what they did upstate.
I think without MoveOn also working in NH, without Democratic support, and without us going to places that Democrats apparently considered beneath their notice, Hillary would have lost NH also and Maggie Hassan wouldn’t have won her Senate seat.
Maggie Hassan won by 743 fucking votes out of the whole entire state.
And Hillary Clinton got 6,142 LESS votes than that, in New Hampshire, a state the Democrats absolutely could not afford to lose and didn’t in fact lose. That gap would have been even larger if MoveOn was not pulling out every stop and making any weasely argument they possibly could to stop people from voting Maggie and intentionally leaving the Presidential race blank. They were doing it at 8.26 times the margin of error for Maggie’s win! That’s close to three times the size of Clinton’s margin. It’s a goddamn miracle Clinton even won New Hampshire.
I cannot believe that if not for a bunch of ex-Bernie people working for MoveOn without any support from the Democrats we would not even have our New Hampshire Democratic senator, or NH itself in the Dem column. Without those people, the Democrats would not have sent anybody at all to Sullivan, and who knows what other turfs I haven’t even heard about, I was just in Keene.
JESUS FUCKING CHRIST, and don’t you dare turn around and blame the ex-Bernie people when we goddamned pulled NH out for you when you were doing nothing, nothing to help yourselves. Disgraceful performance.
Bob2
@sukabi: Yup.
@geg6: Seriously, poll data suggest Trump voters were over median on wages.
@dogwood: I think you’re trying to read a little too deep into a comment here where you have no context, especially if you’re the one espousing civility above and saying fuck you out the other side of your mouth.
dogwood
@Bob2:
You’re the one who said Obama and Clinton were normalizing Trumpism by simply carrying out their official responsibilities. I am not prone to anger and have a very long fuse. But right now I’m as angry and disgusted as I’ve ever been in my life. For some reason that line just set me off. I am still sick to my stomach and trembling half the time. I really don’t know how to express myself right now because I’ve never experienced this type of emotion before. I could say I’m sorry, but I really don’t know what I’m feeling right now. It’s probably some perfect storm of anger, disgust , embarrassment and fear.
Bailey
@Villago Delenda Est:
What a vile person you are. Someone presents an alternate–some would say obvious—view and you route for their harm or death. Stay classy.
Bailey
@Applejinx:
Hearing your recap of canvassing makes me sad. I have no doubt it was this inept and out of touch in every battleground state as well.
All that money and I’m just…at a loss.
Davis X. Machina
:@dogwood:
You must mean the ones he called ‘bitter clingers’….
PIGL
@Trentrunner: thank you for this.
Your friend, PIGL, the white spruce tree.