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You are here: Home / Open Threads / Open Thread

Open Thread

by John Cole|  November 10, 20161:32 pm| 254 Comments

This post is in: Open Threads

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FFFFFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCKKKKKKKKKKKKKK

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Previous Post: « Two Competing Narratives for the Party Reboot
Next Post: I’m Making Up My Own Stages Of Grief »

Reader Interactions

254Comments

  1. 1.

    Ol' Nat

    November 10, 2016 at 1:34 pm

    Deep breaths!!

  2. 2.

    JPL

    November 10, 2016 at 1:34 pm

    John, Best post ever.

  3. 3.

    AnnaN

    November 10, 2016 at 1:35 pm

    Snuffling some cat belly is a remarkable restorative. If you can get away without losing your eyes, that is.

  4. 4.

    Unknown Known

    November 10, 2016 at 1:37 pm

    scores high on the ever important meaning/word ratio.

  5. 5.

    Hunter Gathers

    November 10, 2016 at 1:37 pm

    Everyone under the age of 50 is now officially fucked.

    My Medicare coupon will, I imagine, be the classiest coupon ever.

  6. 6.

    quakerinabasement

    November 10, 2016 at 1:39 pm

    If the Trump University court date stands, the Trump administration will produce its first scandal even before inauguration day.

    Our long national nightmare of competent governance is finally over.

  7. 7.

    JPL

    November 10, 2016 at 1:39 pm

    @Hunter Gathers: Even those on Medicare, are in danger. Social Security will be privatized which means, less money for you and more for the brokers

  8. 8.

    Cermet

    November 10, 2016 at 1:39 pm

    John, please tell us your real feelings!

  9. 9.

    Trentrunner

    November 10, 2016 at 1:40 pm

    @Hunter Gathers: I think privatizing Social Security or Medicare is going to be MUCH, MUCH harder than we might think. Even allowing for the usual GOP obfuscation, people are hyper-aware of their SS and Medicare benefits and any trivial changes. A wholesale privatization proposal would engender huge pushback.

  10. 10.

    Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (Formerly Mumphrey, et al.)

    November 10, 2016 at 1:40 pm

    I think this post sums up the state of things about as well as anything could.

  11. 11.

    Glyph_2112

    November 10, 2016 at 1:41 pm

    Is it too early for the first Obama “Miss me yet” meme? Ironically, the Bush one works with Trump as well.

  12. 12.

    WereBear

    November 10, 2016 at 1:41 pm

    If anyone could send some good kitty karma our way, we have a crisis looming for our beloved Reverend Jim, the Maine Coon mix rescue kitty:

    Here’s a link about him:
    Reverend Jim and the Anniversary

    He’s had digestive issues since we rescued him from utter starvation, and I worry that this damaged some organs, which now, at age nine, are starting to marginalize.

    Vet is coming to the house tomorrow to discuss serious medication, and we’ll see.

  13. 13.

    David Rickard

    November 10, 2016 at 1:41 pm

    Don’t hold back, Cole: repression is bad for your health…

  14. 14.

    Crashman06

    November 10, 2016 at 1:42 pm

    @Trentrunner: I think (and hope) that you’re right.

  15. 15.

    debit

    November 10, 2016 at 1:43 pm

    @WereBear: Sending thoughts and prayers your way.

  16. 16.

    kindness

    November 10, 2016 at 1:43 pm

    @Trentrunner: – Are you suggesting that Republicans care about what ‘people’ think? Really?? Republicans only give a shit about what their SugarDaddies think. The rest of us are collateral damage until the next election where they are needed again. Rinse. Repeat.

  17. 17.

    Stooleo

    November 10, 2016 at 1:43 pm

    Why do I feel like I’m the unwilling participant in a suicide pact right now?

  18. 18.

    KG

    November 10, 2016 at 1:44 pm

    @Hunter Gathers:

    Everyone under the age of 50 is now officially fucked.

    In fairness, they’ve been telling us all that since high school in the early/mid 90s. So, it’s probably our fault for not taking them seriously.

    /snark

  19. 19.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    November 10, 2016 at 1:45 pm

    it’s still not quite sunk in. driving with MSNBC on in the car, they were talking about Trump’s candidate choices, and it was a shock all over again: This is it, this is real, that animal is gonna be our fucking president.

  20. 20.

    Trentrunner

    November 10, 2016 at 1:46 pm

    @Crashman06: And I have some recollection of Trump actually saying something about protecting SS. I mean, it’s Trump, so who the fuck knows what he meant, but I distinctly remember him saying that.

  21. 21.

    the Conster, la Citoyenne

    November 10, 2016 at 1:47 pm

    My teacher daughter teaches a very diverse mixed class of 3rd, 4th and 5th graders. She spent yesterday trying to comfort the ones who were truly scared. We’ve gone through the looking glass, to 1933.

  22. 22.

    Pogonip

    November 10, 2016 at 1:49 pm

    Cole, are you still sober? I hope so.

  23. 23.

    Mary G

    November 10, 2016 at 1:50 pm

    I am still unable to look at the news, so what happened?

  24. 24.

    Iowa Old Lady

    November 10, 2016 at 1:50 pm

    @Trentrunner: Generally when Rs say “protect” SS, they mean privatize it and/or cut benefits because otherwise, they claim, it will go bankrupt and there’s just no other way to prevent that. Sad.

  25. 25.

    PPCLI

    November 10, 2016 at 1:50 pm

    @kindness: Old people vote reliably, and they tend to vote Republican. Fucking with Social Security and Medicare is the one thing that would get them to dump the Republicans. The next congressional election would be a bloodbath.
    So I doubt very much that this will be tried.

  26. 26.

    Jim Faith

    November 10, 2016 at 1:51 pm

    The Primal Scream that all of us feel.

  27. 27.

    Elizabelle

    November 10, 2016 at 1:51 pm

    I am not watching news or checking news sites.

    What has happened, specifically, for this post?

  28. 28.

    debit

    November 10, 2016 at 1:51 pm

    @Mary G: I thought perhaps it was just a generalized scream of despair.

  29. 29.

    Crashman06

    November 10, 2016 at 1:51 pm

    @Trentrunner: I think he said he wouldn’t tamper with Medicare, actually, though I could be wrong. No doubt about it, this is a horrible situation. But he lost the popular vote, is widely loathed by many people, and was only reluctantly voted for by many supporters. Plus, there are plenty in his own party who, although they are gutless cowards, hate him and would be happy to shiv him if given the opportunity. I remember what happened when W tried to privatize SS years ago. If they try it again, or with Medicare, I believe there will be massive resistance. That doesn’t mean they couldn’t be successful, but I do think the path would be very difficult.

  30. 30.

    Emerald

    November 10, 2016 at 1:51 pm

    It actually is possible that when the Electoral College meets to actually elect the president, enough will vote for Hillary to change this mess. Saw a rumor from Propane Jane that two electors from Texas might be considering it.

    I don’t expect it to happen, but that’s the very reason the Founders put the Electoral College in there—to protect the country from a dangerous or unfit man in the presidency.

    Electors, do your jobs!

  31. 31.

    chopper

    November 10, 2016 at 1:53 pm

    that’s the exact thing i texted my wife yesterday afternoon.

  32. 32.

    Timurid

    November 10, 2016 at 1:54 pm

    Building on some of the discussion from the last thread…
    There’s always been a subset of totebagging tools whose message to people of color, with varying degrees of directness, has been:

    “You can have Column A, which is care packages from us every Christmas, with condescending head pats from your white Mommies and Daddies, lots of clucking about ‘education’ and ‘meritocracy’ and the understanding that our precious fee fees are the most important thing in the world.
    Or you can have Column B, which is… jackboots.
    There is no Column C.”

    Seeing those people vindicated this week sickens me almost as much as watching the all the secret Klansmen come out of the closet.

  33. 33.

    Elizabelle

    November 10, 2016 at 1:54 pm

    @Mary G: You and I are on the same page. I am skipping news sites, in total.

    To find out what’s up with the North Carolina governor’s race, I google “Roy Cooper.” Not gonna expose myself to the NY Times or WaPost website headlines.

    happy dance: FWIW, it appears he and the Democratic attorney general candidate, Josh Stein, won. Cooper’s margin is less than 1% though, over the unpopular Pat H2B McCrory, and I don’t know what separation triggers a recount.

    Giving some thought to escaping to Europe again for a few weeks. Or just maintaining a blackout here. No NPR in the car. Nothing. You guys will keep me informed.

  34. 34.

    trollhattan

    November 10, 2016 at 1:54 pm

    @Stooleo:
    Yeah, we now know what it’s like to be a Branch Dividian/Peoples Temple/Heaven’s Gate member. One who tagged along with an acquaintance out of curiosity. “I thought it was just going to be an Herbalife party.”

    Do-overs?

  35. 35.

    chopper

    November 10, 2016 at 1:55 pm

    @the Conster, la Citoyenne:

    it’s like i went to sleep a few nights back and woke up in the Upside Down.

  36. 36.

    David

    November 10, 2016 at 1:55 pm

    Article about Cabinet possibilities (warning: Politico): http://www.politico.com/story/2016/11/who-is-in-president-trump-cabinet-231071

    My personal favorite, regarding Interior Sec:

    And Trump’s son Donald Trump Jr., is said to be interested in the job.

  37. 37.

    Elizabelle

    November 10, 2016 at 1:56 pm

    @Emerald: Yeah, that would be awesome, if this could get fixed in the Electoral College, since Hillary won the popular vote and is the better qualified and just plain damn safer candidate.

    I would take to the street in support of that outcome.

    So would the world, very honestly. And maybe they should. Our election results affect them. Majorly.

  38. 38.

    amorphous

    November 10, 2016 at 1:56 pm

    Will there ever actually be a peak wingnut?

  39. 39.

    Taylor

    November 10, 2016 at 1:56 pm

    I have a theory about why Bernie Sanders is reaching out to Trump.

    He’s afraid of Trump’s DOJ going after his wife.

  40. 40.

    Hungry Joe

    November 10, 2016 at 1:56 pm

    A small part of me — a VERY small part, I hasten, and then hasten some more, to add — finds the prospect of Donald Trump as the most powerful man on the planet to be wildly comic. I mean, THIS guy? Really? It’s kind of like electing Zaphod Beeblebrox to be President of the Galaxy. (“Vell, Zaphod’s just zis guy, you know?”)

    Which reminds me: It’s time to mix up another Pan Galactic Gargle Blaster. Stand back …

  41. 41.

    mai naem mobile

    November 10, 2016 at 1:56 pm

    Don’t forget there will be a faux scandal with the Obama staff leaving something for Camacho’s staff a la pulling the W s off the keyboards when Dumbya came in. Be ready.

  42. 42.

    opiejeanne

    November 10, 2016 at 2:00 pm

    Amen, John Cole. Ayyyy-fucking-MEN.

  43. 43.

    trollhattan

    November 10, 2016 at 2:00 pm

    My 14YO awoke in tears yesterday. At her high school dozens of her friends and classmates were likewise distraught, as were some of her teachers, some openly crying. I don’t recall anything like this occurring before, not Nixon-Humphrey, not Nixon-McGovern, not Reagan-Carter…Gore-Bush was just weird since it dragged out for weeks.

    Kids really paid attention this election and having to trust we adults to do the right thing, are now shaken to the core by our betrayal. Having a hard time throttling my reaction so as to not raise her alarm level from “11” to infinity.

  44. 44.

    trollhattan

    November 10, 2016 at 2:01 pm

    @Hungry Joe:
    Assume you have your towel and robe.

  45. 45.

    Emerald

    November 10, 2016 at 2:01 pm

    I’m not watching news either. Getting all my news from BJ and Twitter. I didn’t even watch Rachel last night.

    I went to see Doctor Strange in 3D instead. It was strange indeed. Quite an amazing use of computer imaging.

    So I too do not know the cause of John’s epic post above.

  46. 46.

    opiejeanne

    November 10, 2016 at 2:02 pm

    @KG: Please, child. They’ve been telling us that SS would go away since the 1950s.

  47. 47.

    Shalimar

    November 10, 2016 at 2:03 pm

    @Trentrunner: If they privatize Social Security and voucherize Medicare, there will be no proposal, or publicity of any kind. It will be pushed through in under a day with no notice like the North Carolina LGBT law. Republicans learned their lesson from the last time they tried to privatize Social Security in 2005. Now they just pass what they want and let people protest afterwards.

  48. 48.

    John Revolta

    November 10, 2016 at 2:04 pm

    @Hunter Gathers:

    Everyone under the age of 50 is now officially fucked.

    Meh. I’m over 60. There’s a good chance now that the rest of my life is gonna suck.

    You think they’re so dumb
    You think they’re so funny
    Wait until they’ve got you runnin’ to their
    Night Rally
    Night Rally
    Night Rally……………….

  49. 49.

    Anal Gland Expression

    November 10, 2016 at 2:04 pm

    @Glyph_2112: I lol’ed because it’s true…

  50. 50.

    Poopyman

    November 10, 2016 at 2:04 pm

    @Hunter Gathers: 50? I’m 62 and fully expect to be royally fornicated.

    And since us Olds won’t be able to retire, the Youngs will have to wait until we drop dead. And good news, there! With lack of health care we’ll be dropping with great frequency!

  51. 51.

    Lit3Bolt

    November 10, 2016 at 2:05 pm

    I’m avoiding the news as well. As well as the internet aside from my trusted lefty blogs.

    Fuck the long arc of justice. Half of our country is Chaotic Evil.

    I better head to the store and start trying on armbands. I live in a deep red Southern state, with a deep red career field.

  52. 52.

    ALurkSupreme

    November 10, 2016 at 2:05 pm

    Happy to see some positive thoughts about Social Security, at least.

    But yes. What Cole said.

  53. 53.

    The Dangerman

    November 10, 2016 at 2:05 pm

    I see on CNN that Trump is now getting the high end Intelligence stuff. The Counter Espionage people are probably scoring lots of overtime these days.

  54. 54.

    Patrick Thompson

    November 10, 2016 at 2:06 pm

    Too restrained, Cole.

  55. 55.

    Shalimar

    November 10, 2016 at 2:07 pm

    @Lit3Bolt: 1/3rd of our country is chaotic evil. another 1/3rd is chaotic indifferent.

  56. 56.

    Crashman06

    November 10, 2016 at 2:07 pm

    @Shalimar: Then they’ll get wiped out in the midterms.

  57. 57.

    Roger Moore

    November 10, 2016 at 2:08 pm

    @kindness:

    Are you suggesting that Republicans care about what ‘people’ think? Really??

    Massive public anger was able to stop privatization last time, so apparently they are willing to listen when the public gets loud enough.

  58. 58.

    Shalimar

    November 10, 2016 at 2:09 pm

    @Crashman06: It didn’t happen in Wisconsin, or Florida, or Michigan, or North Carolina. Enough people forgot by the next election that Republicans retained control of the legislatures.

    I want you to be right. That is what happens in a just world. But I think Republicans have figured out that most non-Republicans can’t stay outraged that long.

  59. 59.

    OGLiberal

    November 10, 2016 at 2:09 pm

    @trollhattan: I had to assure my 10-year old everything will be OK (I lied) because he nervously asked “Did she win” as soon as she woke up the day after.

  60. 60.

    opiejeanne

    November 10, 2016 at 2:10 pm

    @Emerald: Those two, if they follow through, will just cancel out the two Faithless Electors from Washington State.

  61. 61.

    GrandJury

    November 10, 2016 at 2:10 pm

    Remember when Obama was disrepectful for not wearing a tie and putting his feet up on the desk in the oval office.

    There could be a picture of Trump and Melania fornicating on that desk and the media will say that he looks so presidential doing it.

  62. 62.

    Crashman06

    November 10, 2016 at 2:11 pm

    @Roger Moore: They’ve had eight years to stamp their feet, obstruct, whine, and complain about the evil social justice agenda, all while doing absolutely nothing productive. But now they’re in the driver’s seat, and they gotta produce. They are going to overreach so hard, and Dems better be ready to wield the resulting backlash like a baseball bat to the face.

  63. 63.

    debit

    November 10, 2016 at 2:11 pm

    Since this in open thread, I have a couple suggestions if people want something to marathon. HBO’s Westworld is amazing. While it shares the same basic outline of the 1970’s movie (tourist go to park populated by robots, things go horribly wrong) it’s so much more. The acting and the cinematography are amazing, and the showrunner is Jonathan Nolan, Chris Nolan’s brother, the guy who wrote the short story “Memento” was based on. If you don’t have HBO, I’m sure you can make use of other resources

    ScyFy has a new series called Channel Zero that follows a format like American Horror story (each season is its own self contained story) and is inspired by creepy pastas. Season one is based on Candle Cove and has really caught my attention. It’s more moody and sad than truly frightening, but it stays with you. Fiona Shaw (the actress who played Harry Potter’s Aunt) is just terrific and manages to make me tear up more than once.

    And finally, I’m going to marathon Hannibal again. If you’ve never seen it, please, please don’t be put off by the subject matter. Just try it for a couple of episodes. I promise, Mads Mikkelsen will steal your heart. And then eat it.

  64. 64.

    trollhattan

    November 10, 2016 at 2:11 pm

    @The Dangerman:
    Yeah, it gets real with him about to take hold of the stick-with-pointy-end and all those FBI asshole supporters will be really surprised when their horse turns out to be a large, rabid, orange skunk. “Get Giuliani in here, I don’t have time for this crap!”

    Just great.

    Listened to a lengthy BBC news business program with a global roundtable evaluating “Trumpnomics.” Boy howdy.

  65. 65.

    Poopyman

    November 10, 2016 at 2:12 pm

    I always thought the barbaric yawp was more of a, you know, yawp.

  66. 66.

    Albert Z.

    November 10, 2016 at 2:12 pm

    @trollhattan: My 16 year old daughter had the same experience. A younger generation caring this deeply can only be a good thing and there are indications that they are in the majority in their age group. Let’s hope.

  67. 67.

    Kryptik

    November 10, 2016 at 2:13 pm

    @amorphous:

    Never. Peak Wingnut is a lie. They just create more, because they’re the forever majority in this country.

  68. 68.

    Enhanced Voting Techinques

    November 10, 2016 at 2:14 pm

    @kindness: The pictfork populists aren’t corporate cons. They do care about all their poor as f**k voters primaring them for giving their social security to the others. Those primaries are only 12 months away.

  69. 69.

    trollhattan

    November 10, 2016 at 2:14 pm

    @Shalimar:
    Republican women IMHO are culpable. Had assumed they (a decent fraction, anyway) would quietly vote for her once the breadth and depth of his depravity became undeniable, but their Hillary hatred carried the day. The Latino breakdown is likewise a huge puzzle to me. Have zero idea how we can straighten things out in 2018, but we’d better the hell try, beginning yesterday.

  70. 70.

    Poopyman

    November 10, 2016 at 2:15 pm

    ATTENTION, ALL PERSONNEL! THIS IS NOT A SNARK!

    Nigel Farage to fly to America hoping to land a job with Donald Trump

  71. 71.

    GrandJury

    November 10, 2016 at 2:16 pm

    @debit: I’ m not too impressed by Westworld. Maybe that’s just me.

    There is a SyFy series that some may not have heard of called The Expanse. I think it got picked up by Netflix for another season.

  72. 72.

    Roger Moore

    November 10, 2016 at 2:16 pm

    @the Conster, la Citoyenne:

    We’ve gone through the looking glass, to 1933.

    This. I keep thinking about my grandfather, who decided to ignore the rest of his family and leave Stuttgart for Paris in 1933. A wise man and a decisive one. Fortunately, he was able to help the rest of the family get out a couple of years later when they had changed their minds but leaving was harder, and even more fortunately, they all wound up in countries that Germany failed to take over in WWII.

  73. 73.

    Kryptik

    November 10, 2016 at 2:17 pm

    @Crashman06:

    They’ve had eight years to stamp their feet, obstruct, whine, and complain about the evil social justice agenda, all while doing absolutely nothing productive. But now they’re in the driver’s seat, and they gotta produce. They are going to overreach so hard, and Dems better be ready to wield the resulting backlash like a baseball bat to the face.

    And the media will just characterize it as Dems hating all of America, and disrespecting their collective voice, destroying the fabric of Democracy.

    IOKIYAR. Try and replace the R in there, and you get the full hammer of hate.

  74. 74.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    November 10, 2016 at 2:18 pm

    @Roger Moore: I’m inclined to think privatization is a big loser, and went to have a look at the 2018 Senate map to guess which R-Sens might be willing to put a stop to that. I still think privatization is a loser, but that Senate map, as Cole says, FUUUUUUUUUUUCK

    @trollhattan: Norm Ornstein had a tweet, and I may even get around to the article, saying that it looks like Comey was the big shift. I’m sure some R’s would’ve ‘gone home’ in any case, but it was so close that it didn’t take many to stay never Trump.

  75. 75.

    Arclite

    November 10, 2016 at 2:18 pm

    Did something bad happen this week? What’d I miss?

    :o

  76. 76.

    bemused senior

    November 10, 2016 at 2:19 pm

    @the Conster, la Citoyenne: My daughter teaches pre-school SPED here in NorCal, so her kids can’t talk to her. Her classroom however is in a high poverty elementary school. Yesterday many kids came to school crying, because they fear being bussed to Mexico. Their teachers spent the day trying to calm and reassure them.

  77. 77.

    debit

    November 10, 2016 at 2:20 pm

    @GrandJury: It might not be to everyone’s taste. I know a lot of people were put off by the orgy scene.

  78. 78.

    ThresherK

    November 10, 2016 at 2:20 pm

    Could not imagine NYT front page asking “Where did we go wrong?” being about anything except fucking polling.

    Hey, jizzbrains: If you wrote about voter suppression as eagerly as if it were Hillary’s emails…

  79. 79.

    opiejeanne

    November 10, 2016 at 2:20 pm

    @trollhattan: People on various sites are still arguing about whether Hillary was the wrong candidate and whether she really would be a better president than It will, for fuck’s sake, or whether we should have reached out more to the working class (does that mean what Blue Collar used to mean?)

    The thing is, I am seeing charts of where Hillary’s strongest vote support came from, and it was the people making under $50,000/yr. Economic anxiety my ass.

  80. 80.

    Frank Forchins

    November 10, 2016 at 2:20 pm

    I can’t sleep. Can’t think. Can’t work. Can’t concentrate. Can’t do anything but play with my cats.

    Please tell me this isn’t going to be the end of the world.

  81. 81.

    ArchTeryx

    November 10, 2016 at 2:21 pm

    Spoken like a true tanker, John. Because unlike a lot of this country, you can hear the whistle of the incoming shell.

  82. 82.

    Kryptik

    November 10, 2016 at 2:22 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    If this election has taught us any real lesson, it’s that trying to put faith in the better angels of our nature is a sucker’s bet.

    Relying on ‘sensible’ Rs to save us is just begging for them to stab us in the back for when they go with what greases their palm instead and staying on the party line.

  83. 83.

    trollhattan

    November 10, 2016 at 2:22 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:
    Comey letter and the subsequent media–literally every media outlet I heard/read–framing as “latest Clinton email scandal” were a BFD and frankly, the timing was perfect for maximum impact.

  84. 84.

    Crashman06

    November 10, 2016 at 2:22 pm

    @Kryptik: I don’t think that’s how it’ll shake out. But I suppose we’ll find out soon enough.

  85. 85.

    Emerald

    November 10, 2016 at 2:22 pm

    @opiejeanne:

    I looked into it more and found out stuff. In this circumstance there may be more than just four. And those four (two Dems from WA who refuse to vote for Hillary, and one R from Georgia who says he can’t vote Trump—the other one from TX has flipped back to Trump).
    But even if it happened, the House and Senate—the current House and Senate—get to object. Then state officials make the final call to go with their electors or with the state vote. It would take three states to pull it off.
    So technically it’s possible, but extremely unlikely.
    Still, it’s the only chance we’ve got and it ought to be pursued. Fate of the world arguments and suchlike.

  86. 86.

    Roger Moore

    November 10, 2016 at 2:23 pm

    @Emerald:

    I don’t expect it to happen, but that’s the very reason the Founders put the Electoral College in there—to protect the country from a dangerous or unfit man in the presidency.

    That isn’t the reason they included the EC. They had the idea that the electors would be wise patricians who would choose the leader without being beholden to hoi polloi. They also did it that way to A) give the small states extra weight and B) not penalize states with a very restrictive franchise relative to those with a broad one. It still plays both those roles today.

  87. 87.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    November 10, 2016 at 2:23 pm

    @Kryptik: not about their better angels, it’s about saving their own asses.

  88. 88.

    FlipYrWhig

    November 10, 2016 at 2:24 pm

    @Taylor:

    I have a theory about why Bernie Sanders is reaching out to Trump.

    My theory is that he, like every other wannabe leftist, thinks “economic anxiety” is what produced Donald Trump, which would validate his worldview. My other theory is that he is a self-aggrandizing douchenozzle.

  89. 89.

    Timurid

    November 10, 2016 at 2:24 pm

    Nightmare fuel

  90. 90.

    Kryptik

    November 10, 2016 at 2:24 pm

    @Crashman06:

    I’ve seen this movie before. Never do I see a D given the benefit of the doubt ever in the media, even after smacking the media around with enough empirical data to fill a presidential library. It’s not happening.

  91. 91.

    SenyorDave

    November 10, 2016 at 2:24 pm

    @David: And Trump’s son Donald Trump Jr., is said to be interested in the job.

    Is he the one with the picture of the elephant tail? Because that is a picture that he should be forced to tattoo on his shit-eating grin face for the rest of his miserable life,

  92. 92.

    Arclite

    November 10, 2016 at 2:25 pm

    It’s so bad, I’ve started visiting Dailykos again. I hadn’t been there since Obama got elected.

  93. 93.

    Kryptik

    November 10, 2016 at 2:25 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    not about their better angels, it’s about saving their own asses.

    Which is exactly why they’re not going to be rocking the boat. Like I said, we’ve seen this movie before.

  94. 94.

    Elizabelle

    November 10, 2016 at 2:26 pm

    Andy Borowitz, just now:

    Trump to Create Jobs for Unskilled White Males
    “No one—I repeat, no one—but me is willing to give these two jobs,” Trump said.

    It’s photos of Newt Gingrich and Rudy Giuliani.

  95. 95.

    GrandJury

    November 10, 2016 at 2:26 pm

    @debit: What orgy scene? Which series are you referring? I don’t remember an orgy scene in either.

  96. 96.

    elspi

    November 10, 2016 at 2:26 pm

    It has helped that I have started to think of the US government as the newest reality TV show.

  97. 97.

    opiejeanne

    November 10, 2016 at 2:26 pm

    @FlipYrWhig: Door #2.

  98. 98.

    Arclite

    November 10, 2016 at 2:26 pm

    @GrandJury: The Expanse was so good. Haven’t seen Westworld yet. What’s wrong with orgies? I could use a good orgy about now. =D

  99. 99.

    Patricia Kayden

    November 10, 2016 at 2:27 pm

    @WereBear: Those are two gorgeous kitties. Hope RJ gets all the treatment he needs and gets better. {{RJ}}

  100. 100.

    Emerald

    November 10, 2016 at 2:27 pm

    @trollhattan:
    Comey needs to be fired and prosecuted immediately, while we still can.

    Yeah, I know the next director will be worse, but his behavior was illegal and he has to answer for it.

  101. 101.

    Elizabelle

    November 10, 2016 at 2:29 pm

    @trollhattan: I think it could not hurt for us to write to the sponsors of MSNBC and CNN, and tell them we are not watching their networks anymore, because their appalling lack of news judgment allowed a madman to take office.

    And then: stop watching.

    I’d appreciate if you guys would provide the names of frequent advertisers on MSNBC and CNN. I think Liberty Mutual is one. (“You totaled your new car. And there will be pain…”)

  102. 102.

    debit

    November 10, 2016 at 2:29 pm

    @GrandJury: Westworld. Episode 5.

  103. 103.

    Davis X. Machina

    November 10, 2016 at 2:29 pm

    @FlipYrWhig: Vulgar/demotic Marxism is a helluva drug.

  104. 104.

    Elizabelle

    November 10, 2016 at 2:31 pm

    @Emerald: I started wondering if Comey pulled his awful stunt, in part, because if he actually DID enable electing Dumpster, who is going to want Dumpster making a ten-year FBI director appointment?

    Comey might have saved his own sorry ass, at the cost of ours.

    Agree, though, that he should be penalized. Severely. Perhaps history will not be kind to him.

  105. 105.

    GrandJury

    November 10, 2016 at 2:31 pm

    @David: Yea, no conflict of interest there. Fuckin hell. No way Obama or any Dem could ever get away with putting a family member into a cabinet post. What a fucking nightmare. I expect to be using IOKIYAR a lot so may as well get the app.

  106. 106.

    opiejeanne

    November 10, 2016 at 2:34 pm

    @Arclite: Here: Odalisques
    This is a “still” photograph shot by my grandfather when he was working on D.W. Griffith’s “Intolerance”. We think it might be from the legendary missing harem scene. More of a pillow fight than an orgy, but some people enjoy stuff like this.

  107. 107.

    Davis X. Machina

    November 10, 2016 at 2:34 pm

    @GrandJury: I believe after JFK did it with Bobby as AG, it was specifically banned by law.

  108. 108.

    Carnacki

    November 10, 2016 at 2:34 pm

    @AnnaN: Although if you lost your eyes, you wouldn’t have to see the disaster unfolding …

  109. 109.

    Trentrunner

    November 10, 2016 at 2:35 pm

    @David: Just realized that Trump will have perfect justification (no sarcasm) for appointing people with absolutely no experience to Cabinet posts: “You made me President, America, and I had no experience!” Wonder what the R Senate would do in such cases.

  110. 110.

    Felonius Monk

    November 10, 2016 at 2:36 pm

    @FlipYrWhig:

    My other theory is that he is a self-aggrandizing douchenozzle.

    I think I’d go with this theory. Pretty much a winner in my book. Bernie is now irrelevant, even to himself.

  111. 111.

    opiejeanne

    November 10, 2016 at 2:36 pm

    @Elizabelle: Except for Lawrence O’Donnell on MSNBC. He has been our rock. He doesn’t let the mean girls come on his show and steal his lunch money like poor Chris Hayes does, and he’s not an idiot like the rest of them. Rachel is ok, sometimes.

  112. 112.

    Lit3Bolt

    November 10, 2016 at 2:36 pm

    @trollhattan:

    If you had told be the FBI and the KGB were collaborating to influence an American election a year ago, I would have said that sounds like a bad Tom Clancy pitch.

  113. 113.

    Singing Truth to Power

    November 10, 2016 at 2:37 pm

    I have discovered how to minimize slightly my obsessing on Trump and the impending disaster – just had a molar with a cracked root extracted. My whole head hurts. Heading off to get vicodin. Trump is still much, much worse than dental disaster. However, we do have the midterms to work on –

  114. 114.

    the Conster, la Citoyenne

    November 10, 2016 at 2:37 pm

    @FlipYrWhig:

    I would like Bernie and his bros to explain to me like I’m 5 years old why there were so many Trump supporters in my upscale community just west of Boston.

  115. 115.

    JPL

    November 10, 2016 at 2:37 pm

    About that meeting this morning,
    http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/josh-earnest-barack-obama-still-thinks-trump-unfit

  116. 116.

    Singing Truth to Power

    November 10, 2016 at 2:38 pm

    Our progressive radio station in Madison, WI has been converted overnight to a station that plays only Xmas music. No kidding.

  117. 117.

    Kristine

    November 10, 2016 at 2:38 pm

    @WereBear: ::good thoughts::

  118. 118.

    bluehill

    November 10, 2016 at 2:39 pm

    @Kryptik:

    If this election has taught us any real lesson, it’s that trying to put faith in the better angels of our nature is a sucker’s bet.

    The founders must have had some good insight into people as they tried to do a lot to keep people from f’ing things up. It’s the Pogo cartoon observation – “We met the enemy and he is us.” A while back as my realization of the horror that was unfolding grew, I thought that America as a concept and through luck and circumstance may be “exceptional” (Adam rightly and ironically noted Stalin came up with this phrase but meant it derisively) but its people weren’t any better or worse. We are still human with the good and bad that comes with it. I guess the hope is that things won’t get too bad before they decide to do the right thing.

  119. 119.

    frosty

    November 10, 2016 at 2:39 pm

    @Arclite: DailyKos. Me too.

  120. 120.

    Lynn Dee

    November 10, 2016 at 2:39 pm

    Well put, John Cole.

  121. 121.

    Trentrunner

    November 10, 2016 at 2:39 pm

    Who will lead the Dems?

    Just got this from Elizabeth Warren:

    Hello,

    This wasn’t a pretty election. In fact, it was ugly, and we should not sugarcoat the reason why. Donald Trump ran a campaign that started with racial attacks and then rode the escalator down. He encouraged a toxic stew of hatred and fear. He attacked millions of Americans. And he regularly made statements that undermined core values of our democracy.

    And he won. He won – and now Latino and Muslim-American children are worried about what will happen to their families. LGBT couples are worried that their marriages could be dissolved by a Trump-Pence Supreme Court. Women are worried that their access to desperately needed health services will disappear. Millions of people in this country are worried, deeply worried. And they are right to be worried.

    Today, as President-Elect, Donald Trump has an opportunity to chart a different course: to govern for all Americans and to respect our institutions. In his victory speech, he pledged that he would be “President for all” of the American people. And when he takes the oath of office as the leader of our democracy and the leader of all Americans, I sincerely hope that he will fulfill that pledge with respect and concern for every single human being in this country, no matter who they are, no matter where they come from, no matter what they believe, no matter whom they love.

    And that marks Democrats’ first job in this new era: We will stand up to bigotry. There is no compromise here. In all its forms, we will fight back against attacks on Latinos, African Americans, women, Muslims, immigrants, disabled Americans – on anyone. Whether Donald Trump sits in a glass tower or sits in the White House, we will not give an inch on this, not now, not ever.

    But there are many millions of people who did not vote for Donald Trump because of the bigotry and hate that fueled his campaign rallies. They voted for him despite the hate. They voted for him out of frustration and anger – and also out of hope that he would bring change.

    If we have learned nothing else from the past two years of electioneering, we should hear the message loud and clear that the American people want Washington to change. It was clear in the Democratic Primaries. It was clear in the Republican Primaries. It was clear in the campaign and it was clear on Election Day. The final results may have divided us – but the entire electorate embraced deep, fundamental reform of our economic system and our political system.

    Working families across this country are deeply frustrated about an economy and a government that doesn’t work for them. Exit polling on Tuesday found that 72 percent of voters believe that “the American economy is rigged to advantage the rich and powerful.” 72 percent of ALL voters – Democrats and Republicans. The polls were also made clear that the economy was the top issue on voters’ minds. Americans are angry about a federal government that works for the rich and powerful and that leaves everyone else in the dirt.

    Lobbyists and Washington insiders have spent years trying to convince themselves and each other that Americans don’t actually believe this. Now that the returns are in and the people have spoken, they’re already trying to wave their hands and dismiss these views as some sort of mass delusion. They are wrong – very wrong.

    The truth is that people are right to be angry. Angry that wages have been stagnant for a generation, while basic costs like housing, health care, and child care have skyrocketed. Angry that our political system is awash in barely legalized campaign bribery. Angry that Washington eagerly protects tax breaks for billionaires while it refuses to raise the minimum wage, or help the millions of Americans struggling with student loans, or enforce the law when the millionaire CEOs who fund our political campaigns break it. Angry that Washington pushes big corporate interests in trade deals, but won’t make the investments in infrastructure to create good jobs right here in America. Angry that Washington tilts the playing field for giant corporations – giving them special privileges, letting them amass enormous economic and political power.

    Angry that while Washington dithers and spins and does the backstroke in an ocean of money, while the American Dream moves further and further out of reach for too many families. Angry that working people are in debt. Angry that seniors can’t stretch a Social Security check to cover the basics.

    President-Elect Trump spoke to these issues. Republican elites hated him for it. But he didn’t care. He criticized Wall Street and big money’s dominance in Washington – straight up. He supported a new Glass-Steagall. He spoke of the need to reform our trade deals so they aren’t raw deals for the American people. He said he will not cut Social Security benefits. He talked about the need to address the rising cost of college and about helping working parents struggling with the high cost of child care. He spoke of the urgency of rebuilding our crumbling infrastructure and putting people back to work. He spoke to the very real sense of millions of Americans that their government and their economy has abandoned them. And he promised to rebuild our economy for working people.

    The deep worry that people feel over an America that does not work for them is not liberal or conservative worry. It is not Democratic or Republican worry. It is the deep worry that led even Americans with very deep reservations about Donald Trump’s temperament and fitness to vote for him anyway.

    So let me be 100% clear about this. When President-Elect Trump wants to take on these issues, when his goal is to increase the economic security of middle class families, then count me in. I will put aside our differences and I will work with him to accomplish that goal. I offer to work as hard as I can and to pull as many people as I can into this effort. If Trump is ready to go on rebuilding economic security for millions of Americans, so am I and so are a lot of other people—Democrats and Republicans.

    But let’s also be clear about what rebuilding our economy does not mean.

    It does not mean handing the keys to our economy over to Wall Street so they can run it for themselves. Americans want to hold the big banks accountable. That will not happen if we gut Dodd-Frank and fire the cops responsible for watching over those banks, like the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau. If Trump and the Republican Party try to turn loose the big banks and financial institutions so they can once again gamble with our economy and bring it all crashing down, then we will fight them every step of the way.

    It does not mean crippling our economy and ripping working families apart by rounding up and deporting millions of our coworkers, our friends and neighbors, our mothers and fathers, our sons and daughters. And if Republicans choose that path, we will fight them every single step of the way.

    Americans want reform to Obamacare – Democrats included. We must bring down the costs of health insurance and the cost of health care. But if the Republicans want to strip away health insurance from 20 million Americans, if they want to let cancer survivors get kicked to the curb, if they want to throw 24-year-olds off their parents’ health insurance, then we will fight them every step of the way.

    Americans want to close tax loopholes that benefit the very rich, and Donald Trump claimed to support closing the carried interest loophole and other loopholes. We need a fairer tax system, but if Republicans want to force through massive tax breaks that blow a hole in our deficit and tilt the playing field even further toward the wealthy and big corporations, then we will fight them every step of the way.
    The American people – Democrats, Republicans, and Independents – have been clear about what economic policies they want Washington to pursue. Two-thirds of people support raising the federal minimum wage. Three-quarters of Americans want the federal government to increase its infrastructure investments. Over 70 percent of people believe students should have a chance at a debt-free education. Nearly three-quarters support expanding Social Security. These are the kinds of policies that will help level the playing field for working families and address the frustrations felt by millions of people across the country.

    The American people sent one more message as well. Economic reform requires political reform. Why has the federal government worked so long only for those at the top? The answer is money – and they want this system changed. The American people are sick of politicians wallowing in the campaign contributions and dark money. They are revolted by influence peddling by wealthy people and giant corporations. When Bernie Sanders proved his independence by running a campaign based on small dollar contributions and when Donald Trump promised to spend his own money, both were sending an important message that they could not be bought. And once again, if Donald Trump is ready to make good on his promise to get corruption out of politics, to end dark money and pay-to-play, count me in. I will work as hard as I can and to pull as many people as I can to end the influence of big money and return democracy to the people.

    Donald Trump won the Presidency under a Republican flag. But Mitch McConnell, Paul Ryan and the Republicans in Congress – and their way of doing business – were rejected – rejected by their own primary voters, rejected during the campaign, and rejected in Tuesday’s election. Regardless of political party, working families are disgusted by a Washington that works for the rich and powerful and leaves everyone else behind.

    The American people have called out loudly for economic and political reform. For years, too many Republicans and too many Democrats have refused to hear their demands.

    The majority of Americans voted against Donald Trump. Democrats picked up seats in both the House and the Senate. And yet, here we are. Republicans are in control of both houses of Congress and the White House. And that makes our job clear. As the loyal opposition we will fight harder, we will fight longer and we will fight more passionately than ever for the rights of every human being in this country to be treated with respect and dignity. We will fight for economic opportunity, not just for some of our children, but for all of our children. We do not control the tools of government, but make no mistake, we know what we stand for, the sun will keep rising, and we will keep fighting – each day, every day, we will fight for the people of this country.

    The time for ignoring the American people is over. It’s time for us to come together to work on America’s agenda. Democracy demands that we do so, and we are ready.

    
Thank you for being a part of this,



    Elizabeth

  122. 122.

    Arclite

    November 10, 2016 at 2:40 pm

    @opiejeanne: That’s classic. ;D

  123. 123.

    Gravenstone

    November 10, 2016 at 2:41 pm

    @David: Someone wants to supplant James Watt as worst ever. More likely, he has his eyes on some highly personally profitable looting opportunities.

  124. 124.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    November 10, 2016 at 2:41 pm

    @opiejeanne: He doesn’t let the mean girls come on his show and steal his lunch money like poor Chris Hayes does

    Heh, Bless his heart, I enjoy Hayes and I think he’s smart but that whole graduate seminar, “let’s have an open-minded discussion” thing really does trip him up sometimes. If AJ Delgado isn’t on that show on direct orders from upstairs, Hayes isn’t as smart as I think he is.

  125. 125.

    Arclite

    November 10, 2016 at 2:41 pm

    FFFFFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCKKKKKKKKKKKKKK

    My guess is that John dropped a cinderblock on his foot and broke his toe. That dude is always hurting himself. :o

  126. 126.

    jonas

    November 10, 2016 at 2:43 pm

    @David: At least Donald Jr. might be interested in conservation, if only to protect the population of large game animals. Better than the normal Republican choice, which would be to put a former coal executive in there.

  127. 127.

    Patricia Kayden

    November 10, 2016 at 2:43 pm

    @Trentrunner:

    A wholesale privatization proposal would engender huge pushback.

    When scores of little White children were shot down in Sandy Hook, where was the huge pushback when Republicans refused to vote for gun control legislation? 90% of Americans were in favor of such legislation at that time.

    The only pushback I’ve seen against Republican policies is when thousands of Americans protested against the Iraq War. But that didn’t matter since Republicans still invaded Iraq and spent years killing innocent Iraqis. Republicans will care about pushback if and when it results in them losing power. That rarely happens.

  128. 128.

    coredump

    November 10, 2016 at 2:43 pm

    My daughter, age 8, started crying yesterday on hearing the results. I held her close, looked into her eyes and told her “You need to be strong, you cannot seen to be week, you cannot give into sadness, use your sadness to be strong, to stand up for yourself and others”. I was very, very proud, when she perked up and I saw a hitherto unseen steely glint in her eye. I am welling up thinking about it. The young ‘uns are going to be alright.

  129. 129.

    Kay

    November 10, 2016 at 2:44 pm

    Trump will be graded on a curve, as he was his entire candidacy. Anything less than a huge disaster they’ll all be falling over themselves to praise him.

    It’s a shame. It’s race to the bottom at the top.

    Right now they’re basically congratulating him for not screeching racial slurs at Obama. He’s right when he says the game is rigged. It’s rigged in his favor. LOW expectations for the 70 year old toddler.

  130. 130.

    Jeffro

    November 10, 2016 at 2:44 pm

    @opiejeanne:

    The thing is, I am seeing charts of where Hillary’s strongest vote support came from, and it was the people making under $50,000/yr. Economic anxiety my ass.

    “Economic anxiety” doesn’t mean “the least among us are sick of being so poor”. It’s about a middle class that’s shrinking on both ends, with a lot of white voters deciding they’re going to try and save themselves by screwing others (poorer others and/or browner others) instead of making those who’ve been reaping all the gains pay. They’re the ones buying this “the rich are the job creators” crap.

    So yeah, you’re right – it’s not really economic anxiety all by itself. It’s about them losing that feeling of white privilege coupled with middle class incomes basically going nowhere for 30 years.

  131. 131.

    Roger Moore

    November 10, 2016 at 2:44 pm

    @Elizabelle:

    It’s photos of Newt Gingrich and Rudy Giuliani.

    Not Qusay and Uday?

  132. 132.

    Patricia Kayden

    November 10, 2016 at 2:45 pm

    @opiejeanne: Joy Reid’s show on the weekends is also very good and she does an excellent job of not allowing Republican surrogates to get away with blatant lies.

  133. 133.

    GrandJury

    November 10, 2016 at 2:45 pm

    @Trentrunner: I like Warren but her fundamental argument is wrong. The vote was not based on worries about the economy, which btw is doing quite well right now.

    Yea there was some of that like there always is but then why vote for someone who never met a business he couldn’t bankrupt?

  134. 134.

    rikyrah

    November 10, 2016 at 2:45 pm

    Animal Pictures are always welcome, Cole.

  135. 135.

    Peale

    November 10, 2016 at 2:46 pm

    @opiejeanne: Yep. This is a middle class revolt, like all Republican votes always are.

  136. 136.

    Kryptik

    November 10, 2016 at 2:46 pm

    Oh, hey, that plan that Trump had for Muslims that suspiciously disappeared from his website, and folks took as a possibility he was double-backing on it?

    It’s back up. Quelle surprise.

  137. 137.

    Busybody

    November 10, 2016 at 2:47 pm

    @Elizabelle:
    Thank you, thank you, thank you. I’ve been saying this since Tuesday night.
    The corporate media failed us and didn’t do their jobs. I see no reason we should continue to support them or their sponsors. Look what a boycott did to Rush L. It would be nice to make those fuckers feel a little of our pain.

  138. 138.

    WereBear

    November 10, 2016 at 2:47 pm

    @Patricia Kayden: @debit: Thanks. He’s a special furry guy and there’s a whole other room of despair in my heart, just for him, right now.

  139. 139.

    azlib

    November 10, 2016 at 2:47 pm

    @Trentrunner:
    Remember Bush tried to do it in 2005 after his mandate and with control of Congress.

  140. 140.

    The Other Bob

    November 10, 2016 at 2:47 pm

    @OGLiberal:

    I also lied to my kids to make them feel OK. This is for adults to worry about anyway.

  141. 141.

    Patricia Kayden

    November 10, 2016 at 2:48 pm

    @Elizabelle: LOL!! Hilarious. I can’t stop laughing. Thanks for that.

  142. 142.

    schrodinger's cat

    November 10, 2016 at 2:48 pm

    @amorphous: First of all its not a peak its a valley and its a bottomless pit. A black hole if you will of both logic and decency and it does not exist.

  143. 143.

    opiejeanne

    November 10, 2016 at 2:48 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: I like Hayes too, but damn! he needs to stop inviting the mean girls who won’t let him get a word in edgewise.

  144. 144.

    Shalimar

    November 10, 2016 at 2:48 pm

    @debit: In defense of the producers, Westworld’s orgy scene was just as boring as a bunch of robots having an orgy probably should be.

  145. 145.

    Omnes Omnibus

    November 10, 2016 at 2:49 pm

    @GrandJury: Robert Kennedy.

  146. 146.

    Kay

    November 10, 2016 at 2:49 pm

    Are we ever gonna get any real media coverage of the President-elect?

    All I’m seeing is long think pieces about how Hillary Clinton sucks. God almighty it’s over- she lost.

    Time to tell Americans all about their new President. Let’s go. Did anyone ever vet his business connections or did he tell them to fuck off with that too, like the taxes? For all I know he has an actual criminal record.

  147. 147.

    kirbster

    November 10, 2016 at 2:50 pm

    @Trentrunner: @Trentrunner: It’s a lovely letter, but the Republican majority will nuke the filibuster and act as though no Democrats even exist in the legislature. Aside from loudly complaining, I don’t think Senator Warren or any other Democrat can stop them from doing whatever they want.

  148. 148.

    Omnes Omnibus

    November 10, 2016 at 2:50 pm

    @Singing Truth to Power: W.O.R.T.?

  149. 149.

    GrandJury

    November 10, 2016 at 2:51 pm

    @Davis X. Machina: I expect that law to be changed then. There are no limits to what the shitstain in chief will try do.

  150. 150.

    Patricia Kayden

    November 10, 2016 at 2:51 pm

    @Kryptik: My Muslim Brother-in-Law actually considered voting for Trump because he “speaks plainly”. I was shocked out of my mind when I heard this. Thankfully, he wasn’t able to vote for medical reasons but the rest of his family voted for Clinton. I’ve heard other people claim that Trump is a “plain talker” but wonder why anyone would be enamored with a man who says awful things and continually repeats himself. He is not an articulate, well-spoken man.

  151. 151.

    Ceci n'est pas mon nym

    November 10, 2016 at 2:53 pm

    I went through despair and have moved on to anger: But still get hit with random moments of wanting to throw up. I’m not ready to think calmly yet or read anything political. Hoping to sharpen the anger to focus on goals and the next fight(s).

    Senate in 2018.
    Un-gerrymandering the country in 2920.

    Meanwhile, I’m going to enjoy the fact that Obama is still my President for 2+ months.

  152. 152.

    MomSense

    November 10, 2016 at 2:53 pm

    Ben Pyramid grain silo Carson for Secretary of Education.

    Wahoo. Because what we really need in the 21st century is 19th century pre-evolution, anti science leadership.

  153. 153.

    Shalimar

    November 10, 2016 at 2:53 pm

    @Kay: Trump isn’t capable of anything more than a huge disaster. They’re going to spend the first month re-creating the conditions that led to the Great Recession, only with even fewer regulations. We will be in a Depression by the mid-terms.

  154. 154.

    Shalimar

    November 10, 2016 at 2:55 pm

    @MomSense: They want to abolish the Department of Education, so that sounds like the perfect position for Ben “zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz” Carson.

  155. 155.

    opiejeanne

    November 10, 2016 at 2:56 pm

    @jonas: You do know which parks are under the Department of the Interior, don’t you? Our crown jewels like Yosemite and Yellowstone, Grand Canyon and Zion and Acadia and Great Smoky Mountains.
    T National Forests are under the Department of Agriculture and their “management” is very different, which is easily visible just by visiting both.

  156. 156.

    PaulWartenberg2016

    November 10, 2016 at 2:56 pm

    I hate to ask, but I need context to this FFFFFUUUUUCCCCCCCKKKKKKKK.

    the follow-up posts seem to refer to the health care thingee.

  157. 157.

    debit

    November 10, 2016 at 2:56 pm

    @Shalimar: Well, I certainly thought so, but others apparently were offended.

  158. 158.

    MomSense

    November 10, 2016 at 2:56 pm

    @Kay:

    Oh and now Putin tells us Da we were in contact with Trump campaign the whole time.

    Way to fucking go free press.

  159. 159.

    Patricia Kayden

    November 10, 2016 at 2:57 pm

    @Kay: Amen. Regurgitating how Secretary Clinton was supposedly the wrong pick isn’t helpful to our side. We need to focus on blocking Trump and thus slowing down his agenda as much as possible. We haven’t seen his taxes so we still don’t know who he is indebted to and which countries own him. The media let him get away with not explaining his policies in detail. We really don’t know what he’s going to do except turn the country over to Rightwingers like Pence and Bannon.

    When will our media do its job (with the exception of a few journalists like Farenthold) and start probing Trump’s financial background? There is too much about this man that we simply do not know.

  160. 160.

    MomSense

    November 10, 2016 at 2:57 pm

    @WereBear:

    Sending my best to you and the Rev. Hugs too.

  161. 161.

    opiejeanne

    November 10, 2016 at 2:59 pm

    @Patricia Kayden: I love Joy. Sorry I forgot her. I follow her on Twitter.

  162. 162.

    WereBear

    November 10, 2016 at 3:00 pm

    @MomSense: Back at ya. We have to be here for each other, somehow.

  163. 163.

    Arclite

    November 10, 2016 at 3:01 pm

    @Shalimar:

    Westworld’s orgy scene was just as boring as a bunch of robots having an orgy probably should be.

    “Emergent gameplay”

  164. 164.

    Patricia Kayden

    November 10, 2016 at 3:01 pm

    @Shalimar: And somehow they’ll find a way to blame President Obama for their disastrous policies as will their brain dead supporters. I still remember some Republicans trying to blame 9/11 on President Clinton.

  165. 165.

    WereBear

    November 10, 2016 at 3:02 pm

    @Kristine: Thank you!

    We all have our vulnerables; family, friends, people we admire, people who have a tough row, but having “dependents” is a serious source of anxiety; be they human, canine, or feline.

  166. 166.

    rikyrah

    November 10, 2016 at 3:02 pm

    One of my oldest friends was in town last week, and we had lunch while she was on a layover for a business trip.. She moved out of the country 6 years ago so that she and her husband could take care of his elderly mother. The mother has passed on, and she has seriously considered moving back. She asked me if I thought that Ferret Head could win, and I told her no. I haven’t contacted her since the election. I’m still too angry, and she won’t come back now, and I won’t blame her.

  167. 167.

    Poopyman

    November 10, 2016 at 3:05 pm

    @WereBear: My 14 y.o. asshole cat, the eponymous Poopyman, was recently diagnosed with IBD after steadily losing weight over some weeks. A course of antibiotics and a course of steroids have made a profound difference.

    Hope RJ has a similar bounce back.

  168. 168.

    SenyorDave

    November 10, 2016 at 3:06 pm

    Sorry to repeat myself, but its bannon and Ailes. These are the two that are going to push policies. They will be politically based, and will have a side benefit on hurting the poor. Take some dollars out of Food Stamps, Head Start, Medicaid, anything that the public perceives helps the others.

  169. 169.

    WereBear

    November 10, 2016 at 3:06 pm

    @Poopyman: Oh, thank you! I’m actually leaning towards that diagnosis, because it’s pretty easy to do something about it.

  170. 170.

    Poopyman

    November 10, 2016 at 3:07 pm

    Jeebus HMS Keeryst, the DOW is up another 275. Bidness sure is looking forward to all that deregulatin’!

  171. 171.

    negative 1

    November 10, 2016 at 3:07 pm

    What if he’s really just focused on making himself rich, and hence does nothing but pork projects that benefit himself? His cabinet then becomes powerful, but they can focus on enriching themselves in their various fiefdoms. That means that they focus on probably two signature tear downs in Congress: restricting same-sex marriage, ACA rollback, or privatizing social security. Which does anyone find to be the most likely?

  172. 172.

    Kryptik

    November 10, 2016 at 3:08 pm

    @Poopyman:

    My question is if the international markets are still freaking out.

  173. 173.

    Blue Galangal

    November 10, 2016 at 3:09 pm

    @Patricia Kayden: And Hurricane Katrina.

  174. 174.

    Poopyman

    November 10, 2016 at 3:10 pm

    @WereBear: The vet said it was a 90% chance of IBD, and a 10% chance of lymphoma, and if it was lymphoma that’s one of the most treatable and beatable. How he responded to the treatment and how he was after they wore off (2 weeks for antibiotics, 6 weeks for cortisone) would tell us more. And as time wears on it’s looking like IBD for Mr. P.

  175. 175.

    Juju

    November 10, 2016 at 3:11 pm

    @Hunter Gathers: Over 50 is also fucked.

  176. 176.

    Linnaeus

    November 10, 2016 at 3:12 pm

    @Poopyman:

    Jeebus HMS Keeryst, the DOW is up another 275. Bidness sure is looking forward to all that deregulatin’!

    I’m not all that surprised. One of the effects of the financialization of the US economy.

  177. 177.

    Iowa Old Lady

    November 10, 2016 at 3:13 pm

    @negative 1: The ACA is gone, IMHO, though I’ll be interested in seeing how they manage to do it, given how connected the various aspect of it are, including some very popular things.

  178. 178.

    Poopyman

    November 10, 2016 at 3:13 pm

    @Kryptik: Tout le monde.

  179. 179.

    Mj_Oregon

    November 10, 2016 at 3:14 pm

    Today is my 69th birthday. Happy fucking birthday to me, right? Currently, my husband and I are living on our SS checks. We worked hard and have been fairly frugal and have a really small nest egg “to fall back on.” I expect we’ll be royally screwed out of everything we’ve worked for and expected to enjoy for a few more years, including our meager income. Does anyone have any suggestions for a “fall back” place to go? I didn’t think so. I need to get off of here and go scream & cry again. and again. and again…

  180. 180.

    negative 1

    November 10, 2016 at 3:20 pm

    @Iowa Old Lady: Yeah I’m curious as well. I wonder if they see it as the trap that it is — they can repeal it but then everyone tangibly loses their health insurance. I know people can be dumb but I can’t really see how you message around that.

  181. 181.

    brendancalling

    November 10, 2016 at 3:21 pm

    there are so many reasons for FFFFFUUUUUUCCCCCCKKKKKK.

    Could you identify which one specifically?

  182. 182.

    debit

    November 10, 2016 at 3:22 pm

    @brendancalling: Maybe he got lucky.

  183. 183.

    elm

    November 10, 2016 at 3:23 pm

    If you don’t offer the morlocks a race war, they’re not going to turn out to vote for you.

    @negative 1:

    I know people can be dumb but I can’t really see how you message around that.

    You blame women, blacks, mexicans, and jews.

  184. 184.

    jenn

    November 10, 2016 at 3:27 pm

    I’m tired already of the circular firing squad. Yes, turnout was lower and we lost. There are a heck of a lot of reasons for that, that have nothing to do with Hillary herself or some failure by Democrats to kowtow to the primacy of the disaffected white voter. Misogyny, voter suppression and intimidation, the abdication by the press of their duties to inform the public, the Comey letter and associated press freakout while voting was occurring, the theft and publication of normal but unappetizing campaign sausage-making (that also received press freakout), and possibly some voter complacency given the polls were firmly in her favor.

    And quite frankly, that Warren letter does her no favors in my eyes.

  185. 185.

    worn

    November 10, 2016 at 3:29 pm

    @Emerald: I am at lunch and so don’t have time to peruse the entire thread to see if this has been broached, but aren’t the names of the electors public knowledge? Instead of shutting down freeways like folks will probably do again here in Portland, perhaps people should be organizing a massive letter writing campaign to the electors? Mostly thinking out loud here as a way of staving off the despair…

  186. 186.

    Ridnik Chrome

    November 10, 2016 at 3:30 pm

    @elm: Not after they’ve already voted, what, fifty or sixty times to repeal Obamacare. They’re committed to it, and they have to follow through.

  187. 187.

    EBT

    November 10, 2016 at 3:30 pm

    @Iowa Old Lady: Kyneckt is super popular in Kentucky. When that goes I wonder who they will blame.

  188. 188.

    debit

    November 10, 2016 at 3:33 pm

    @EBT:

    Kyneckt is super popular in Kentucky. When that goes I wonder who they will blame.

    Democrats.

  189. 189.

    elm

    November 10, 2016 at 3:35 pm

    @Ridnik Chrome: We don’t disagree. The face-eaters will repeal the ACA in its entirety and blame the loss of benefits on blacks, muslims, mexicans, women, and jews.

  190. 190.

    Bostondreams

    November 10, 2016 at 3:36 pm

    Someone else may have posted this, but my goodness I am so so sick. Day One in Trump’s America

    Caution: disgusting and enraging

  191. 191.

    Ridnik Chrome

    November 10, 2016 at 3:38 pm

    @Shalimar:

    Trump isn’t capable of anything more than a huge disaster.

    A big, beautiful disaster. The best disaster ever. And don’t you forget it.

  192. 192.

    the Conster, la Citoyenne

    November 10, 2016 at 3:38 pm

    @jenn:

    too many people like bullies – they either are one, or like to stand behind the bully egging him on. This election was about appealing to that mean streak, that’s just below the surface of half the people we see, and there’s no arguing them out of an attitude they didn’t argue themselves into.

  193. 193.

    debit

    November 10, 2016 at 3:38 pm

    I lack the energy to go look and see, but I wonder if Glenn Beck has come home to Trump yet.

  194. 194.

    Peale

    November 10, 2016 at 3:40 pm

    @jenn: Yep. The analysis of what happened is interesting and I’m sure we’ll find out more as details come in. I hope this isn’t the start of another 8 years of Nader/Gore voter wars as they never really meant much. In 2 years we’ll have a lot of seats to defend (and less money to defend them with) and hopefully that idea that the incumbent’s party does poorly in mid-terms will work for us for a change. In four years we’ll have another primary, Bernie won’t be running. Clinton won’t be running. And we can evaluate candidates differently. There are going to be challenges ahead because I doubt the Republicans will play by any sense of fairness, but hopefully by the next election this one will be behind us.

  195. 195.

    jenn

    November 10, 2016 at 3:40 pm

    For example, from Ari Berman:

    Trump won Wisconsin by 27,000 votes. For perspective, 300,000 registered voters in WI lacked strict voter ID

  196. 196.

    Peale

    November 10, 2016 at 3:41 pm

    @debit: “If Hillary would have just made an appearance in Kentucky.”

  197. 197.

    jenn

    November 10, 2016 at 3:42 pm

    Also probably no coincidence: In 1st presidential election in 50 years without full protections of Voting Rights Act, the guy endorsed by KKK won

  198. 198.

    jacy

    November 10, 2016 at 3:43 pm

    @GrandJury:

    The Expanse was surprisingly and delightfully excellent. (And I’m hella picky about science fiction.)

  199. 199.

    Shalimar

    November 10, 2016 at 3:45 pm

    @jenn: I have a close friend who still has a driver’s license from her previous home state because she can renew that one by mail but can’t get a new one here without a birth certificate that she doesn’t have. She voted by mail so they wouldn’t check her ID. I assume it was counted, she is registered.

  200. 200.

    EBT

    November 10, 2016 at 3:46 pm

    @debit: He has mostly. He still thinks that trump might replay the Smoot-Hawley tariff war.

  201. 201.

    inventor

    November 10, 2016 at 3:47 pm

    @Shalimar: I love the show, but that was the most boring orgy scene ever. The costumes in the orgy were stupid and the sex wasn’t the least bit sexy.

    Boregy.

  202. 202.

    Applejinx

    November 10, 2016 at 3:47 pm

    From upthread because this defines FUUUUUCCKKK more than anything I’ve seen since the polls closed. I ran some math, y’all.

    @oldgold:

    We were told Clinton had a sophisticated and well financed GOV team out in the field and that Trump had none.
    6 or 7 million fewer Democrats voted than in ’08 and ’12.
    Who was in charge of her GOV? Any word on why it apparently failed?

    The only part I know is, I learned to GOTV on the Bernie campaign in the primary. When I got back into it (NOBODY asked or reached out and in the end I had to literally ask a canvasser asking for money, for a place I could go to volunteer. Months pre-election and there was never the faintest hint that I should or even could go out and work for Hillary, just give all the money)

    …when I got back into it, I was doing the same data entry thing in the only MoveOn field office in New Hampshire. All the other organizers were working out of their cars, and our office in Keene was donated space.

    We were sending canvassers all over the place, such as deeply rural Sullivan County. And the canvassers were coming back and saying that when they did manage to speak to people (i.e. find the houses, knock on doors, talk), the people said that no Democrat canvassers had been there at all, ever. They were forgotten and ignored until MoveOn sent canvassers out to see them.

    Sometimes we had to flip voters by telling them that electing Hillary and Maggie Hassan would give other things, like make Bernie chair the Budget committee. We did everything we could even when the voters were hostile or pissed off with us.

    That’s anecdotal, but it was New Hampshire which is not all that big, and New Hampshire is a state that Hillary had to win. It sounds to me like they were canvassing and recanvassing downtown Keene. I don’t know what they did upstate.

    I think without MoveOn also working in NH, without Democratic support, and without us going to places that Democrats apparently considered beneath their notice, Hillary would have lost NH also and Maggie Hassan wouldn’t have won her Senate seat.

    Maggie Hassan won by 743 fucking votes out of the whole entire state.

    And Hillary Clinton got 6,142 LESS votes than that, in New Hampshire, a state the Democrats absolutely could not afford to lose and didn’t in fact lose. That gap would have been even larger if MoveOn was not pulling out every stop and making any weasely argument they possibly could to stop people from voting Maggie and intentionally leaving the Presidential race blank. They were doing it at 8.26 times the margin of error for Maggie’s win! That’s close to three times the size of Clinton’s margin. It’s a goddamn miracle Clinton even won New Hampshire.

    I cannot believe that if not for a bunch of ex-Bernie people working for MoveOn without any support from the Democrats we would not even have our New Hampshire Democratic senator, or NH itself in the Dem column. Without those people, the Democrats would not have sent anybody at all to Sullivan, and who knows what other turfs I haven’t even heard about, I was just in Keene.

    JESUS FUCKING CHRIST, and don’t you dare turn around and blame the ex-Bernie people when we goddamned pulled NH out for you when you were doing nothing, nothing to help yourselves. Disgraceful performance.

  203. 203.

    jacy

    November 10, 2016 at 3:48 pm

    @Frank Forchins:

    It’s not the end of the world. (It sucks. It’s unspeakabley awful. Bad things will happen.) But don’t be demoralized, be galvanized. W begat Obama, which begat Trump. It’s an ugly spasm. It’s up to us to staunch the bleeding, ameliorate the damage, and then make sure that what comes next builds on the good. There is no evolution without pressure, no innovation without adversity. Don’t mourn, organize.

  204. 204.

    Ridnik Chrome

    November 10, 2016 at 3:49 pm

    @Bostondreams: Good God, that IS appalling. And the truly horrible part is that it’s probably going to get worse. But I’m glad at least that in a few instances some decent people stepped up and tried to protect people who were being bullied.

  205. 205.

    Patricia Kayden

    November 10, 2016 at 3:49 pm

    @negative 1: No. I can’t imagine that Republicans won’t use this opportunity to push every single Rightwing wet dream through Congress now that all three chambers are in their control. They will push legislation on issues that we didn’t even think about. It’s going to be a dramatically different country by the time we get around to 2020. We’ll need another Obama just to dig ourselves out of the mess Republicans will have created under Trump/Pence.

    P.S. Of course, that doesn’t mean that Trump can’t find a way to benefit himself while Republican lawmakers are wrecking the country in the background.

  206. 206.

    nastybrutishntall

    November 10, 2016 at 3:49 pm

    @Trentrunner: Professor Senator Warren, you are fucking up. White populism means: giving white men more jobs and stiffing minorities and women and LGBTQs. Then the white turnout grows, the injustice gets deeper, and we become the fucking Third Reich / South Africa. You know who also gave lots of good jobs to white people? Yeah, you’re a professor, you probably do.

    If you give him economic victories, fighting against everything else won’t matter. The environment will shit the bed, AAs will be shot and frisked, queer folk will be beaten and fired, and Trump will get reelected. Oppose everything. Make them own the whole pot. Make Trump fail spectacularly.

  207. 207.

    jenn

    November 10, 2016 at 3:52 pm

    Also, from Justin Miller: Justin Miller ‏@justinjm1 22h22 hours ago

    Clinton lost PA, MI, WI by 109,000 votes—or less people can than fit in Michigan Stadium (115,000)

  208. 208.

    the Conster, la Citoyenne

    November 10, 2016 at 3:52 pm

    @nastybrutishntall:

    This. Populism in a majority white country ALWAYS means white nationalism.

  209. 209.

    matryoshka

    November 10, 2016 at 3:53 pm

    @Mj_Oregon: We may well all end up in tent cities.

  210. 210.

    Bostondreams

    November 10, 2016 at 3:53 pm

    @Ridnik Chrome:

    One of my friends, a former student of mine, said he is so glad he is a white man raised in a rural church and can ‘move unnoticed’ among these people. So that when someone tries to pull this BS, he can show them what 6’7, 270 pounds of angry looks like. I am so proud of him. Because he will.

  211. 211.

    nastybrutishntall

    November 10, 2016 at 3:54 pm

    @Patricia Kayden: Trump: “If you elect me, I will murder you in the face.”
    Voter: “He tells it like it is!”

  212. 212.

    EBT

    November 10, 2016 at 3:55 pm

    @Applejinx: As long as you accept the truth Bernie would have lost.

  213. 213.

    Scamp Dog

    November 10, 2016 at 4:05 pm

    @nastybrutishntall: Do remember the “ifs” Warren started with. The only one of them that I think might happen is the infrastructure spending; Trump will get snookered by his advisors into assenting into whatever they want, since the man doesn’t have any well-developed thoughts about any policy issue. “This will save Social Security! Under Wall Street management it will grow bigly!” So she said some boilerplate words that lay out her goals, but she’s not going to wind up turning a Trump administration into anything resembling a success.

    The question is whether the voters will figure out who’s fault the disaster is, the policies implemented by a Trump administration and an all-R congress, or the “problems” left behind by those awful Democrats.

  214. 214.

    D58826

    November 10, 2016 at 4:06 pm

    I’m convince, the evangelicals are right – GOD is a republiocan. Gre Sargent has a piece up in the WAPO witrh the progressive nightnmare scenario:
    1. tax cuts for the wealthy
    2. across the board deregulation
    3. major increases in military and infrastructure spending
    4. repeal obamacare
    5. the already almost at full employment economy continues to improve
    6. because of 1/2/3/4 the Gop takes all the credit for 5.
    7. any resulting deficits will still be Obama’s fault

    One more bitter irony, esp about infrastructure spending, is that the GOP has opposed it for the past 8 years. Remember the ‘porkulus’ bill?

  215. 215.

    Ella in New Mexico

    November 10, 2016 at 4:07 pm

    Ok. I am now totally scared that indeed, the Russians found a way to flip our electoral college votes.

    How did she lose by 1.3% in PA, and 1.2% in Fl when polls–pre-election and exit–gave Hilary a substantial lead in both places?

    Call me paranoid, but in September I read this: “https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/intelligence-community-investigating-covert-russian-influence-operations-in-the-united-states/2016/09/04/aec27fa0-7156-11e6-8533-6b0b0ded0253_story.html” rel=”nofollow”https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/intelligence-community-investigating-covert-russian-influence-operations-in-the-united-states/2016/09/04/aec27fa0-7156-11e6-8533-6b0b0ded0253_story.html
    All the Wikileaks dumps being connected to Russian hackers and now the news that, yes, indeed, Trump lied and his campaign WAS in contact with Russia all the while?

    All they’d have to do is strategically flip a few votes from Clinton to Trump by remote electronic manipulation or cyber interference with the electronic machines. Remember, there were several doctored emails in the Wikileaks dump, and the DNC found out there was a listening device in their offices which the security company could detect but could not physically locate last month. We’ve been worried for a while in this country about the vulnerability of the electronic voting machines in America.

    I’m curious about what other’s here think. I’d like to be talked out of this…

  216. 216.

    artem1s

    November 10, 2016 at 4:08 pm

    @Emerald:

    It actually is possible that when the Electoral College meets to actually elect the president, enough will vote for Hillary to change this mess. Saw a rumor from Propane Jane that two electors from Texas might be considering it.

    this would be both denial and negotiation stage of grief. I fear it’s impractical and unfeasible for all the reasons we treasure democracy. and the Hate Zamboni will indeed get to claim that the system is rigged. I’m sure 4 years of a disaster in the WH will be worse than the damage caused from gaming the results we don’t like. But there will still be repercussions, violent repercussions. I hate to say it, but I fear there is no easy, quick fix left. FUCK!

  217. 217.

    schrodinger's cat

    November 10, 2016 at 4:09 pm

    @Ella in New Mexico: I can’t, it does seem fishy.

  218. 218.

    Ella in New Mexico

    November 10, 2016 at 4:10 pm

    @Applejinx: You’re absolutely right on this. Of course New Mexico looked good to the Clinton folks, so maybe that accounted for it, but in both Obama campaigns we had multiple door-to-door canvassers coming to talk to us.

    We had NONE this year. NADA. And there were other reasons to canvass, too, that would have been helpful, like state and local legislature races.

  219. 219.

    Ella in New Mexico

    November 10, 2016 at 4:12 pm

    @schrodinger’s cat: Right?

  220. 220.

    Ella in New Mexico

    November 10, 2016 at 4:13 pm

    OMG what the hell did I do with the link feature in my post up above? lolol sorry folks.

  221. 221.

    Amaranthine RBG

    November 10, 2016 at 4:15 pm

    @jenn:

    Can we please stop with this.

    McCain, Romney and Trump each got about 59-60 million votes.

    Obama got 69 million, then 65 million and Clinton got 59 million.

    The voting rights act did not make 10 million people who voted for Obama stay home. That number would be measured, at most in 6 figures. Not in 7, not in 8.

    Yes, cumbersome Voter ID is a bad thing. No it played no real role in this election.

  222. 222.

    Skepticat

    November 10, 2016 at 4:17 pm

    @amorphous: No.

  223. 223.

    Scamp Dog

    November 10, 2016 at 4:18 pm

    @Applejinx: The Clinton campaign in Colorado was active for months, contacting me to canvass or phone bank, and at the end contacting me to make sure I got my ballot in.

    It was sort of enough, in that CO went blue, but not enough other states did. Could resource allocation been better? Sure, but figuring out the totally optimal solution in the event is tough.

  224. 224.

    Aleta

    November 10, 2016 at 4:19 pm

    @Ella in New Mexico: my 1st guess is that Comey flipped undecideds in Pa and Fl. I wouldn’t be surprised at machine tampering in any state such as Pa, Fl, Oh, NC.

  225. 225.

    Hoodie

    November 10, 2016 at 4:29 pm

    @Iowa Old Lady: Had lunch with a more conservative friend (not a Trump supporter). He thinks the first order of the business will be tax cuts, which will largely be a huge giveaway on corporate, estate and other high end taxes. Maybe some juiced defense spending and some minor infrastructure. All of that will pass easily.

    Repealing ACA will be done, but using a “replacement” shell game involving mashing together “selling across state lines” while continuing ACA subsidies but sunsetting them because they eventually will become unnecessary due the wonders of competition. Medicare for younger people will be folded into this revised ACA, so it can eventually be destroyed. SS will be converted to private accounts, with an initial bump but not keeping up with inflation. That dumps the system into the market to initially pump it up and fool people into thinking they’re getting a better deal, and pushes the reckoning out to the next financial crisis. It will all be tiered by age so that current elderly won’t complain and they and future retirees won’t be cognizant of the destruction of the covenant between generations. The idea is structural elimination of the social safety net by privatizing services while reducing benefits, and requiring large tax increases to restore programs once they’ve been gutted. Estates will be permanently protected from taxation. Caste system baked into the tax structure.

    Trump will sell it as a great deal, brilliant business mind, because it’s his basic business plan. I initially didn’t get why the GOP leadership was first repulsed by Trump and then reversed and embraced him. They’re still probably uncertain about him, but they realize that Trump is a potential boon to them because he’s a hella good marketer to the dumbshits they court as a base. The problem when they tried privatization under GWB is that Bush was a lousy marketer. Guys like Bush and Ryan tried to sell it as a libertarian virtue thing, and no one bought into that for one minute. Trump will sell it like a get-rich-quick scheme, and a lot of dumbasses will buy it without realizing it’s a bust out.

    There was a guy (Newberry) who used to post frequently on the GOS that once explained that all of this is about keeping American rich people as rich as rich people elsewhere across the globe. To do that when the US is no longer miles in front of the competition means you have to go zero sum and rob the poorer to pump up the richer. You start with the middle classes because that’s where the real money is.

  226. 226.

    Shana

    November 10, 2016 at 4:29 pm

    @negative 1: Didn’t they just do that in Kentucky? Got rid of Knect and idiot voters in the state didn’t realize that it WAS Obamacare?

  227. 227.

    opiejeanne

    November 10, 2016 at 4:29 pm

    @Poopyman: I’m backing the wrong blue chips, apparently. Since open yesterday I’ve lost about $1600 on things like Clorox and similar solid stocks, and Clorox has always been a steady earner. The ones that are doing well are Disney and one pharmaceutical, but even the oil companies* I still have are crap the past two days. I’m considering selling all of it and stuffing my mattress with the cash.
    I have lost all faith in my broker; I’m about to call him up and ask him to finally admit that they have no idea what they’re doing.

    *A couple of years ago I inherited a portfolio, have gradually cleared out the ones I find morally reprehensible but haven’t finished the process.

  228. 228.

    Applejinx

    November 10, 2016 at 4:44 pm

    @EBT:

    @Applejinx: As long as you accept the truth Bernie would have lost.

    Where the fuck were you? What the fuck does Bernie have to do with anything now other than in Vermont?

    Seriously? Your response is ‘nah nah Bernie sucks’? Jesus fucking Christ. People around here know that I went over to Clinton especially when Bernie asked, that I convinced multiple busters to do likewise, putting my reputation and friendships on the line for your candidate without having any real justification for my leap of faith that maybe she wouldn’t be disastrous.

    YOU people dropped the ball and now you want me to ceremonially piss on Bernie after you have doomed us all. FUUUUCK YOOOOUUU.

    Bernie is in Washington now trying to spin Trump, remind him he was once a Dem, and save our fucking lives. Fuck you.

  229. 229.

    Omnes Omnibus

    November 10, 2016 at 4:46 pm

    @Applejinx:

    your candidate

    Interesting phrasing.

  230. 230.

    nastybrutishntall

    November 10, 2016 at 4:47 pm

    @Scamp Dog: I wouldn’t be so sure. I think building The Wall and fixing bridges would be a great way for big GOP construction firms to make some cash and would put a whole lot of white men to work. I think this could make Trump quite popular with his current voters. And it would be the type of thing that Democrats will have a hard time not voting for, but it will in the end make Trump’s coalition stronger because it will be great cover for every other horrible thing he’ll sign into law.

  231. 231.

    mai naem mobile

    November 10, 2016 at 4:48 pm

    Michael Moore doesn’t even use unionized labor on his movies,and neithe does Ralph Nader at his organization. So they can both fuck off.

  232. 232.

    D58826

    November 10, 2016 at 4:50 pm

    @Applejinx: The comments may be misdirected at you. ON this and other threads NR among others have been pushing the Bernie would have won line.

  233. 233.

    D58826

    November 10, 2016 at 4:52 pm

    Funny how infastreucture spending is suddenly good for the economy and sometrhing the GOP wants to take credit for. In 2009 as part of the stimulus pacjage not so much.

  234. 234.

    Applejinx

    November 10, 2016 at 4:56 pm

    @Omnes Omnibus: I’m from Vermont. I’m a progressive. I worked in New Hampshire for Bernie in the primary, and he won there. I went over to Clinton because I thought all that had caused her to triangulate and start fighting smart and pushing to the left in a way that was believable and worthwhile.

    Me AND my candidate and most of my friends voted for and worked for YOUR candidate, because democracy and big tent and all.

    YOUR candidate lost, Mine most likely couldn’t have won, though funny how Trump won by taking the areas where mine was observably strong. How the fuck did you lose Wisconsin? But YOUR candidate lost. We had more Dem votes for Maggie Hassan in NH than for her.

    Do you want future left wing candidates to tie themselves to Hillary Clinton from now on? What the hell.

    Get used to it. We can’t afford your candidate’s bullshit anymore. According to Ella in New Mexico she did nothing to rally supporters there. She wasn’t properly fighting for New Hampshire if she’d never once sent anybody to Sullivan County: the state is NOT THAT BIG FFS HOW DO YOU JUST BLITHELY NOT BOTHER CANVASSING PLACES HOLY JESUS FUCK

    Your candidate lost. Everything the Left cherishes is still supported by huge majorities in this country. Your candidate let us all fucking down because it was her turn and every step of the way she wanted to walk regally into the same-old same-old halls of wealth and power. I am angry with her for this, and she did not try.

  235. 235.

    FlipYrWhig

    November 10, 2016 at 4:58 pm

    @Applejinx: Bernie is in Washington burnishing Brand Bernie, because Bernie Sanders is, in the end, a one-track-minded simpleton who likes to be in the headlines, like Donald Trump.

  236. 236.

    FlipYrWhig

    November 10, 2016 at 5:00 pm

    @Applejinx:

    According to Ella in New Mexico she did nothing to rally supporters there.

    HILLARY BETRAYED BERNIE AND FOUGHT THE ELECTION TOTALLY WRONG

    oh by the way she won New Mexico by 8 points but still

  237. 237.

    FlipYrWhig

    November 10, 2016 at 5:01 pm

    @Applejinx: Hillary Clinton should have gone everywhere to all the people and said all the things but for some reason she didn’t, probably because deep down she hates us.

  238. 238.

    Applejinx

    November 10, 2016 at 5:01 pm

    @D58826: No, I don’t think Bernie would have won. And me AND Bernie AND my friends did our best to prop up Clinton, and she did not make enough effort to do things for herself, and I’m angry with her for that.

    I don’t believe some of you people will try to triage this mess and save American lives, but there are blue staters who will. It seems some of you want to flounce off to France or wherever, or just keep yelling at Bernie for bringing to your attention, IN TIME, the social movements by which YOU LOST. We had every opportunity to pull this out and a historically, impossibly bad opponent that even his own people hated.

    Let ’em yell at me. NR is wrong and some of these troll people are stupid, but I’m angry as well. Some of you people just won’t goddamn learn and it’s gonna cost lives now.

  239. 239.

    FlipYrWhig

    November 10, 2016 at 5:05 pm

    @Applejinx: BERNIE SANDERS TAUGHT AMERICA ABOUT POOR PEOPLE MOSTLY WHITE ONES AND SOME KIDS IN COLLEGE

  240. 240.

    Omnes Omnibus

    November 10, 2016 at 5:05 pm

    @Applejinx: Sure, my candidate in the WI primary, but wasn’t she our candidate in the general?

    Do you want future left wing candidates to tie themselves to Hillary Clinton from now on? What the hell.

    What does this even mean? Her career in electoral politics is almost certainly over.

  241. 241.

    Applejinx

    November 10, 2016 at 5:05 pm

    @FlipYrWhig: I will never, never forget you cock-strutting and declaring ‘YAASSSS QUEEN’ as if it was a goddamn football game.

    Do carry on snarking and wanking. I’m sure that’s going to work so very well going forward. Maybe you can run Hillary again!

    It’s her turn.

    …fuckwit. Blood is on your hands.

  242. 242.

    D58826

    November 10, 2016 at 5:06 pm

    @FlipYrWhig: What I find odd about all of these reports about what Obama did and Hillary didn’t do in the GOTV effort is she took over most of the Obama team. Why were they so smart and capable in 2008 and 2012 but dumb as a bag of rocks in 2016. Didn’t Mook run the Obama data effort in 2012? I’m not doubting what all you folks are saying but it just seems odd.

  243. 243.

    FlipYrWhig

    November 10, 2016 at 5:07 pm

    @Applejinx: I never said that phrase once. Also, Bernie Sanders sucks, has sucked, and will always have sucked, as long as he lives, and for a long time afterwards.

  244. 244.

    FlipYrWhig

    November 10, 2016 at 5:09 pm

    @D58826: It seems to me like this time around the dataset was just completely out of phase with reality, and I don’t know why that would be. AFAICT they adhered to the data to the point of slavishness. The data was wrong.

  245. 245.

    Omnes Omnibus

    November 10, 2016 at 5:11 pm

    @D58826: There is the possibility of a reverse Bradley effect. People who were ashamed to say in public that they were going to vote for him, but, in the privacy of the voting booth, did so.

    A lot of this is going to come out over time and it will help us sort out how to keep something like this from happening again.

  246. 246.

    geg6

    November 10, 2016 at 5:12 pm

    @Trentrunner:

    Fuck her. Just…fuck her.

  247. 247.

    lethargytartare

    November 10, 2016 at 5:13 pm

    @Kay:

    Are we ever gonna get any real media coverage of the President-elect?

    All I’m seeing is long think pieces about how Hillary Clinton sucks. God almighty it’s over- she lost.

    Time to tell Americans all about their new President. Let’s go. Did anyone ever vet his business connections or did he tell them to fuck off with that too, like the taxes? For all I know he has an actual criminal record.

    this was what made me go to bed in disgust on Tuesday – the MSNBC braintrust trying to decide if they actually knew anything about what Trump would do as president. They were all, Matthews, Maddow, the lot, absolutely dumbfounded. All I could think is, you fvcking jackals had 18 months to figure this out, but all you cared about was an e-mail server. Every talking head in America owns this president and all that comes next.

  248. 248.

    FlipYrWhig

    November 10, 2016 at 5:16 pm

    @lethargytartare: I was watching and thought something different. My read was that Maddow was saying we know exactly what he _promised_ to do, so let’s go with that, while Matthews was saying, that was just rhetoric, he really stands for [list of 3 things Chris Matthews has been attributing to him for months on end and that Chris Matthews also likes].

  249. 249.

    D58826

    November 10, 2016 at 5:17 pm

    @FlipYrWhig: @Applejinx:
    AND OTHERS – I believe it was the estimed Mr. Franklin who said that we must all hang together or assuredly we will all hang separately. May well apply today, hopefully only in a metaphorical sense.

  250. 250.

    FlipYrWhig

    November 10, 2016 at 5:25 pm

    @D58826: Applejinx is a proverbial burr under my proverbial saddle, but fine, truce.

  251. 251.

    D58826

    November 10, 2016 at 5:48 pm

    @FlipYrWhig: We are all a bit testy at the moment. Trump is the target. and re-fighting old Bernie wars doesn’t achieve anything at this point. eye on the prize – stop Trump/’gop

  252. 252.

    Applejinx

    November 10, 2016 at 6:34 pm

    @D58826: I would go back and vote for Hillary again if it helped, in hopes she wasn’t bullshitting this whole time. We’ll never know and it’s indeed moot now.

    Fair warning: if Bernie, in his capacity as ‘see, I too was against Hillary!’ is able to con Trump into hosing the Republicans on economic issues (that being his pet hobbyhorse and what Trump won on, or at least Bernie can convincingly persuade Trump of this as Trump will want to believe it)…

    …by which I mean, renaming but not fundamentally hosing Obamacare, or putting a Trump logo on Social Security but not wrecking it, etcetera for a whole host of social programs that lives depend on…

    …and any of you people try to obstruct this triage process in the name of fighting Bernie and keeping the Democratic party 100% obstructionist for ideological purposes…

    Don’t go there, ‘k? No good will come of it. First we keep motherfuckers from dying in myriad ways. :)

  253. 253.

    Ella in New Mexico

    November 10, 2016 at 8:20 pm

    @D58826:

    We are all a bit testy at the moment. Trump is the target. and re-fighting old Bernie wars doesn’t achieve anything at this point. eye on the prize – stop Trump/’gop

    This needs to be copied and pasted repeatedly over the next few days as all the sad, angry, confused and defeated oozes out of a lot of us onto one another.

  254. 254.

    Another Holocene Human

    November 10, 2016 at 8:50 pm

    @Applejinx: I heard very disturbing stuff about the turfs in Alachua County Florida but I can’t confirm it, however I have no reason to disbelieve the person who told me so, she is a hard working activist who has canvassed for many campaigns. I know their phone banking game was bad, their data game was bad, and there may have been a similar canvassing issue to what you describe.

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