@AlGiordano one advice mental health professionals always give is to order your space. It restores some control and helps declutter the mind
— Chris Wyman (@wymancr) November 11, 2016
.
Apart from cleaning up the clutter (it’ll be a long process at my house), what’s on the agenda as we start the weekend?
This is how the future voted. This is what people 18-25 said in casting their votes. We must keep this flame alight and nurture this vision. pic.twitter.com/ivuXrar869
— Eliza Byard (@EByard) November 9, 2016
Perhaps the most insightful political comment I've seen in the election aftermath from a very smart friend of mine. pic.twitter.com/uMjbm2LIOF
— skullsinthestars (@drskyskull) November 11, 2016
I like big picture themes as much as the next pundit, but let's remember: a 1% vote swing & we'd all be writing the opposite.
— Greg Ip (@greg_ip) November 10, 2016
Trump is personally disposed to hate congressional Republicans. Might not be hard to get him to screw Ryan over.
— Josh Barro (@jbarro) November 10, 2016
Every single day Trump is going to do and say something awful. Make sure to thank your neighborhood dudebro in public space each time.
— Al Giordano (@AlGiordano) November 11, 2016
Jerzy Russian
I am trying to hang some picture frames on a concrete wall. I may need more masonry drill bits.
Major Major Major Major
We actually get veterans’ day off at work, so I did some chores. Now I’m gonna play some Fallout 4 to prepare for the upcoming administration.
quakerinabasement
I plan to blame Obama for not reaching out to working class whites nearly enough. Like this: “Today President Trump vowed to replace the Statue of Liberty with a solid glass sculpture of his wife, Melania.”
Thanks, Obama! Your fault for not reaching out to working class white people!
dr. bloor
@Major Major Major Major: Now you’ve done it. The next “Administration suspends first amendment, water boards progressive protesters” story will be countered with BUT MAJOR MAJOR MAJOR MAJOR FANTASIZED ABOUT REPUBLICANS WHILE PLAYING FALLOUT 4!!!!”
Alain the site fixer
@Major Major Major Major: that was my therapy this week! Lol.
Tonight it’s cooking and watching with my wife and two kitties. Making my veggie soup now with kale and then leftover Mexican type food (blend of Tex mex, New Mexico/Colorado, and Mexican.)
Then house cleanup and even more cleanup as annual inspection is this week. I miss owning a house!
greennotGreen
This morning I was watching the Colbert monologue that ends with the band leader coming out and hugging him. I laughed and then broke down into uncontrollable sobbing. I grieve for my country. I feel like my mother died…and my father murdered her. But, as the gas station statement reminded me this afternoon, one day at a time.
Major Major Major Major
@dr. bloor: Shit, you’re right!
Baud
Can we stop praising or demonizing the young? Yes we won them. But we lost white millennials, 10% voted third party, and many didn’t vote. And who knows how they’ll vote in the future?
Corner Stone
These Congressional R’s aren’t hiding a god damned thing. They are coming for ACA and “Entitlements”.
This is going to be a lotta fun.
debbie
@Baud:
Look at the map at the top. If it’s accurate, there’s reason to be hopeful. This could be the last gasp of a very horrible thing.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Tell me about how no one ever asked to see your birth certificate, how Obama doesn’t understand what it means to be an American, and how using Donald Trump in robocalls in MI and OH in 2012 had nothing to do with Birtherism.
So tired of the whitewashing of the Willard.
Baud
@debbie: The map is what I’m reacting to.
Corner Stone
@quakerinabasement:
Well, actually. The Statue of Liberty is at best a 4. And Melania is like a 7.5 or 8. So def upgrade there, bro.
Corner Stone
So, a bright spot to the election. A colleague asked me if when we meet for a conference next year in Las Vegas, is there an issue if we buy and use some pot?
I’ve never done an illegal drug, but if you’re in a state that has legalized…? I told him he should create a safe space and then Dowd it up!
Lyrebird
@Alain the site fixer: We had a nice day for raking, but I am wishing I didn’t own a house! (didn’t have the day off at work, either) But being at work had good aspects – many hugs exchanged.
Mnemosyne
I’m hoping to actually get some writing done on my novel tonight so I can get caught up. I was not feeling a love story with a happy ending the last few days.
Mary G
Thanks for putting that skullinthestars tweet. I tried to share it unsuccessfully. I think the “Dems must understand and accommodate Trump voters” is the biggest pile of shit currently circulating.
Felonius Monk
@Corner Stone:
It’s time to start organizing the Hover Round Brigade again.
PhoenixRising
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: No matter when folks who have been wrong get right, we embrace them and offer them a seat.
In Mitt’s case he can take ALL the seats.
Applejinx
@Corner Stone: Bear in mind that Trump defeated them first.
They can want, all they want. Some of the things they want, severely hurt their base. Ain’t like epistemic closure is confined to establishment Democrats, by a long long long shot. ALL the Republicans without exception lost to Trump, who mocked all their bullshit.
I don’t think it’s a given that he will cravenly start doing their bidding. Especially not about the stuff that’s electoral suicide.
Mary G
@Corner Stone: I kind of hope they give Paul Ryan everything he wants. The backlash would be awfully fun. I’m afraid they know that and will lower the age of “grandfathered” old-style benefits to whatever age it is that voters don’t turn out at.
Baud
@Mary G: More like save them from themselves.
We’ll accommodate them after we see how they vote in the next election.
Mnemosyne
Also, they released a new clip from Moana today and now I’m convinced that they managed to use commenter dance around in your bones as the basis for Gramma Tala. ?
Fair Economist
I’m largely with Barro on this. The Republican coalition is pretty fractious – zombie-eyed granny starver and his congressional followers, only-in-it-for-himself Trump and his worshippers, and rural voters who are mostly pretty racist but also really economically stressed. Just rebound will probably give us a good bounce in the midterms, but what we really want is to fracture that coalition. It’s too early to move because we don’t know where the splits will show up; we should mostly just wait and prepare to pounce.
PhoenixRising
@Mary G: No, biggest pile of shit at the mo is ‘Trumpism represents a majority’. Like always, 27%, once CA and AZ early ballots are counted, I’m guessing right on the nose.
We need to look at the messaging failure that caused that, clearly. Because non-votes had a plurality.
But as I said to a voter who then filled out and voted her mail-in while I waited: My racist uncle Bob in Chandler votes every single time, and he’s gonna vote for the lawn order guy so he’s only going to win if you fail to cancel out Bob’s vote. Non-voters all needed someone standing on their damn porch reminding them that our racist uncles NEVER skip an election and that’s why they ruin everyone’s Thanksgiving, not just mine.
WarMunchkin
@Mary G: I don’t think we need to understand and accommodate Trump voters at-large, just the 3 or so % percent of them we need to vote Democratic again.
Steeplejack (phone)
@Jerzy Russian:
Can’t you use those Command adhesive hooks? I’m curious about those myself.
Mnemosyne
@Fair Economist:
Luck favors the prepared, so let’s be prepared.
Gvg
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: you know, he might even be genuinely afraid of trump. They have different flaws. They would never like each other. I don’t think Romney is so deeply stupid, and he probably doesn’t want to die in a nuclear holocaust. Doesn’t mean I want him as President though I must admit I would take him over Trump. The thing is, because he is a long time big shot republican, he will be listened too by more trending GOP voters than people I actually like so I do want him to continue to attack.
Iowa Old Lady
@Mnemosyne: I’ve found writing helps over the last couple of days, probably because it’s a distraction.
Fair Economist
@PhoenixRising:
That’s just good politics. Politics is all about working with opponents to get good things done. If working with Mitt can constrain Orangemandias, I’m all for it.
Shalimar
@Baud: Keeping track of who voted your way and trying to reach out to them in future elections is retail politics. Throwing up your hands and saying “who the fuck knows about the future, dude?” is how you lose.
jl
@Applejinx:
” I don’t think it’s a given that he will cravenly start doing their bidding.”
From news reports and some comments in thread below, it seems McConnell is afraid it is not a given either. McConnell is cautioning Trump not to try to make the election results into too much of mandate for his proposals.
Now, if McConnell is talking about the idiotic wall, or Muslim ban, I might give him some credit. But I won’t worry about having to do that. I am sure McConnell is worried Trump might stick with his pledge to keep Social Security and Medicare going as sound programs that pay the currently scheduled benefits.
On some issues of economic importance, and maybe some foreign policy issues, it will be a contest between the last person in the room and Trump’s sense of what will seriously damage his popularity. We don’t know what will happen in that continuing contest. A lot what the Establishment GOP wants is deeply deeply unpopular with the vast majority of voters.
Maybe we should write Chelsea Clinton to make sure to have regular weekly luncheons with Ivanka, for insurance? I dunno.
Mnemosyne
@WarMunchkin:
We don’t even have to do that — Trump got fewer votes than Hillary did. Better to concentrate on the non-voters and get them to show up.
Brachiator
Robert Vaughn, RIP
The Man from UNCLE could have sorted out the Russian agents Putin lent to Trump
Baud
@Shalimar: That’s not responsive to my comment.
debbie
@Baud:
Okay. I see hope in it, but I’ve been wrong before.
Steeplejack (phone)
@Mary G:
Here’s a link you can use to share it.
Corner Stone
These pundits who keep boldly stating that Trump, “Needs to speak out against the violence and hateful acts going on around the country.”
HA! Good luck, bro! Not only is that who I think he actually is, it is without doubt that the white nationalist/racist tiger only loves him as far as he let’s their freak flag fly. If he says, “Cool it. That is not the United States.” He is fucking done. DONE. They will string his ass up (metaphorically) as fast as you can find a Cracker Barrell in the South.
Mnemosyne
@Steeplejack (phone):
Only if you’re going to hang them for a year or less. The adhesive gives out after that amount of time. We found that out the hard way.
Corner Stone
Ah, Lil’ Zach strikes again. Thanks, Zach!
Poopyman
@Fair Economist: Agreed. If Paul Ryan actually tries to kill off medicare I think the blowback will peel off a lot of skittish representatives, and maybe invite a thrashing by Trump himself.
I’d dearly love to see that.
PPS: ditto for SS
Corner Stone
CHANGE ELECTION!! CHANGE!
Baud
@debbie: I’m saying neither hope nor despair is warranted yet. But I certainly don’t want to be a downer on the issue.
Omnes Omnibus
@WarMunchkin: I’d rather work to get some of the non-voters to start voting. Make the Trump voters irrelevant.
Emma
@Brachiator: Christ. This year sucks majorly.
Alain the site fixer
@Lyrebird: come to think of it I did see a team of landscapers with blowing tech working to move a crapload of leaves. In that sense it’s good to be a renter. Though I miss Cañon City in Colorado as few trees and constant wind meant most leaves go away naturally. Of course there’s fire danger and such but both houses we owned had pretty much self-disposal of limited leaves.
Shalimar
@Baud: I understand not wanting to demonize groups of people if they’re not obvious demons like Trump voters. But what good is there in pissing on people noting a group that voted our way?
Uncle Ebeneezer
@Baud: Right. About to run out the door so I don’t have time to dig it up but I’m pretty sure I heard/saw someone note that once you take out the Black vote, even the youth vote was depressingly Red.
Shalimar
@Baud: Despair is everywhere the last 3 days. Trying to destroy the places people find hope is wrong.
Brachiator
@Emma: Vaughn was political in interesting ways.
He was a big supporter of Robert Kennedy and moved to England for 5 years after RFK was killed.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
man, McConnell is really uncomfortable with the responsibility of governing
Read more here: http://www.kentucky.com/news/politics-government/article114197923.html#storylink=cpy
the old turtle doesn’t know which way to turn
Gin & Tonic
@Corner Stone: If you’re visiting such a state, it’s challenging. I was in Colorado last fall, and passed a pot shop. I was driving a rental car – nope, can’t smoke in the car. I was staying in a hotel – nope, can’t smoke in a hotel. Thought of taking some home – nope, can’t leave the state with it. Was in a few parks – nope, you can’t smoke out in public. Where, exactly, can I legally get high in a legal state? Not an easy question.
Keith G
Has it been mentioned here that The Independent is running a story quoting Trump that he may not repeal the ACA?
Poopyman
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: He’s an instigator and an obstructionist, not a legislator. And no, he’s not a responsible person. At all.
Miss Bianca
@Iowa Old Lady: Me, three. And as I’ve said…the past couple days has made me realize I’m onto something with this “post-Second Civil War” scenario. I thought it was going to be fantasy…Almost 13,000 words so far! Altho’ now I’m freaking out because TrueNovelist isn’t showing any of it to me right now.
Shalimar
@Keith G: I have the evening news on, not sure which channel and not paying much attention, but I did hear Trump say he would keep the part of the law that protects people with pre-existing conditions and also try to keep the part that lets children stay on their parents’ plan til 25.
I would be more heartened if it were up to Trump. Ryan already has the bills ready and Trump will sign whatever the House and Senate pass.
Quicksand
What the FLICK is wrong with Giordano? Seriously. Look in the mirror, a-hole.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Gin & Tonic: edibles, drinkables, topical…
so I”ve heard
goblue72
@Baud: What we know is that generally, whites turn out consistently every two years compared to nonwhite voters. We also know that as voters get older, they vote at higher rates. So, if we are losing 10% of millennials now, as they age, that 10% shortfall could get significant. Counting on demographic changes to save Democrats is foolish.
Democrats have been counting on that since Ruy Texiera and John Judis started writing about it 2002. Turned out, they over-simplified things. Which they’ve since acknowledged.
Major Major Major Major
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Shocked, gambling, etc.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Poopyman: yeah, of all the dog-caught-the-car analogies, McConnell’s got a lot of shit to back up now that the president, the House and a good chunk of his own caucus are well to his right, or at the very least much more willing to upset the status quo
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@goblue72: Hey Dwight, you see where Betty dug up some of your greatest hits from your more radical posturing? what a sad little clown you are.
Fair Economist
No, linky?
Possibly even Trump is smart enough to know that repealing the ACA without a functioning replacement would be a moral, economic, and political catastrophe.
Corner Stone
@Gin & Tonic: I honestly have no interest. Never did. But this election, man…this fucking election.
It’s always a group of us so I am sure someone has some local friends they can ask to guide those interested.
q80
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: McConnell is a cynical manipulator all the way down (that is the way of things with large turtles is seems). McConnell knows very well that decline of coal is due more to competition from cheaper natural gas, international financial factors that effect US trade deficit generally, and automation, far more than any evil liberal environmental agenda. And McConnell’s paymasters won’t countenance any government policy efforts to help jobless coal miners. And McConnell doesn’t give even a tiny rat shit if his constituents live in grinding misery as long as he successfully places the blame for the misery on someone else.
So this miserable swindler is scrambling to cover his ass. Trump gave him a policy present that McConnell doesn’t want to accept. As I said in previous thread, McConnell is pure cynical slime. He changed his whole ideological stance, the whole damn thing, 180 degrees when he saw that going bigot know-nothing reactionary was the easiest way to maintain power during the Reagan years. He used to be a moderate center-right GOPer. Didn’t have the courage of principles or honesty of other moderate GOpers who tried to stand their ground and slowly got picked off eventually.
Major Major Major Major
@Gin & Tonic: Just get edibles, then.
EBT
@Corner Stone: There is no way that a DoJ or DEA headed by Giuliani let’s it stay legal. As I have said before I fully expect the MMJ verification servers to be confiscated and used to file felony charges to further voter suppression.
debbie
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Then what the fuck has he been jonesing for all these years?
SiubhanDuinne
@Brachiator:
Ah, no. This bloody awful year.
q80
@debbie: Lying to his constituents in order to maintain power by any means necessary. That is all McConnell joneses for.
sukabi
@Corner Stone: here’s the thing, drumpf was screwing around on Melania right after they were married, while she was pregnant, and probably continually after. The sex scandals that will be leaking out of the WH will make Bill Clinton blush.
Keith G
@Fair Economist:
Link
Donald Trump: I may not repeal Obamacare, President-elect says in major U-turn
cokane
I think Barro’s analysis is wrong, except maybe on free trade. Trump’s bio indicates a man who is happy to just be the face and not the manager. Trump’s pitch to Kasich, if you believe it, reinforces this. Trump putting Pence head of transition further reinforces it.
It’s Paul Ryan’s country now.
goblue72
@WarMunchkin: You won’t get far even suggesting that. The echo chamber is already coalescing around “double down, but clap louder”. Expect to hear – “We just need to GOTV better” and “We just need to nonvoters to vote”.
I hear that garbage after election we lose. Like there’s some magic pixie dust we can sprinkle around that requires us to change absolutely nothing about our issues focus or platform or, most importantly, which voters we target for our coalition.
“Find the next Obama” is not a plan. Especially when even Obama proved mainly only able to get Obama re-elected. Doing anything about Congress or the states – not so much.
sukabi
@Mnemosyne: so make it a murder mystery.
EBT
@Gin & Tonic: JFC, get your hotel bathroom hot and steamy and smoke it there. Or buy a cheap pen vape and a cartage and use it factually anywhere that you can have 10 minutes to air out.
Corner Stone
@EBT: I honestly don’t know anymore. A faction wants to keep locking people up in for profit prisons, but a chunk want to stop wasting all that budget cash on stopping people from getting their hands on the chronic.
I think the profit motive may well win out but not sure it’s a slam dunk any longer.
mai naem mobile
I think one group of people is being ignored and don’t laugh about this. The shows I watched assumed Hillary was going to win. And this was not only MSNBC. There was some panel show where they were using the present tense as in Hillary being president instead of future tense. Is it possible people didn’t show up because they thought Hillary had it in the bag. I mean there were stories of Hillarys people doing the fireworks thing. What wad Bill going to do as First Laddie…I am not saying that there weren’t other issues but this may be part of it.
goblue72
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: I’m sorry, who are you again?
jl
@debbie:
Reposted since I somehow typed something in the ‘Name box/ and in moderation.
Lying to his constituents in order to maintain power by any means necessary. That is all McConnell joneses for.
MomSense
@Major Major Major Major:
If you have Netflix there is a series called Stranger Things. Takes place in ’83 and one of the first scenes is kids playing D&D in the basement. It’s a good diversion.
delphinium
@Omnes Omnibus: I agree with this. A certain percentage of people in this country will never vote for a Dem regardless of how dire their situation becomes and we have to leave them behind. As an aside, 2 people in my office who are regular Republican voters (1 has a W picture on his desk!) did not vote for Trump. So there is hope, we just need strategies to get more people on our side on a regular basis.
Major Major Major Major
@EBT: California is going to get absolutely shit upon by this administration in every possible way, if only as a “suck it, libs!” sort of thing. And, between the sanctuary cities, pot legalization, emissions standards, and park system (just off the top of my head), Il Douche will have the legal means to do so.
Combining our patchwork marijuana framework with a fractured FBI will be interesting to watch.
sukabi
@Mary G: that’s the same bullshit the “brainz” in the media push after EVERY election, win or lose. Dems MUST accommodate the repubs.
Go back and check, every single time.
lamh36
Oh…looky here…Well his done his dirty duty…time to get a job with the new White House.
@THR
Trump surrogate Corey Lewandowski leaves CNN
Matt McIrvin
That really blue map is actually based on pre-election polls; I’ve seen one that looks slightly different based on, I think, later pre-election polls, but I don’t know if the good enough exit-poll demographic data exists to draw an accurate one.
And, it’s true, we handily won millennials, but only because not as many of them are white. This is exactly the demographic change that’s freaking out the racists, including young ones.
Major Major Major Major
@MomSense: I’ve seen it! It’s great. Watched it over August.
I actually really want to start a game of D&D right now but getting a group together is annoying.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@goblue72: Remember, Dwight? “Hunting season”? “Malcolm was right, Martin was wrong”?
EBT
@Corner Stone: Giuliani himself really hates it. As does Arpaio and that Milwaukee sheriff of nothing. Any one of them could make legal pot use in to a cudgel.
dr. bloor
Interesting. I’ve been going with “BURN THIS FUCKER DOWN!” with my folks this week.
debbie
@jl:
Someone in KY with a megaphone needs to ensure every coal miner in the state hears that quote.
goblue72
@Major Major Major Major: I have been thinking the same thing. A lot of states have legalized MJ at this point – either as recreational MJ or as MMJ. But its happened in context of an Obama Admin that took a clear hands-off approach. What happens when the anti-drug right wingers are in charge again?
Things had gotten so relatively lax, that I didn’t even worry about flying with it. Not anymore.
Mary G
Remember, the Republicans had all of Congress before the election and couldn’t even agree enough amongst themselves to pass the budget they’d been screaming about for years. They are world-class obstructionists and if there aren’t any Dems to obstruct they will go after each other. Many of them still remember the old adage that Social Security is the third rail of politics. This isn’t going to be as easy for Ryan as he thinks it is.
JPL
@cokane: That’s what I think. It’s important to go after Medicare and stop privatizing right now. Obamacare did not bankrupt Medicare. It’s a lie.
Iowa Old Lady
@Miss Bianca: Whoa. Does that mean your file is unaccessible? I back each day’s work up to dropbox. It’s saved me a couple of times.
lamh36
Minorities Worry What a ‘Law and Order’ Donald Trump Presidency Will Mean
MomSense
@Major Major Major Major:
My kids used to have them with their friends (I started them with my first edition) and as recently as this summer they were having some reunion games. I’m missing it although printing those character sheets uses a lot of ink.
old_owl
Worth reading
EBT
@goblue72: The only thing in our favor is the relative lack of federal officers to actually go around and bust up cannabis users.
SiubhanDuinne
I feel as though I saw something earlier today, but can’t track back to it now, that Trump said he would not be living in the White House come January 20. Probably silly clickbait, but did anyone else see that? If there’s any validity to it, well, I guess there’s no legal requirement that the First Family live at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue (or Blair House if the WH is undergoing renovations or something) — but it would surely be unusual, would it not?
Although I had speculated to myself that perhaps Melania and Barron would spend most of their time living in Trump Tower, and would join Donald (or he would join them) on the weekends. Have no idea what Barron’s school situation is, but perhaps they don’t want to disrupt his education. Not interested enough to research it, though. If there’s any there there, I expect our intrepid news media will let me know.
Major Major Major Major
@goblue72: I was worried about the MMJ registries under Bush, then completely forgot about them, then just this week remembered that there’s a list of people who regularly buy illegal drugs, with receipts, and the doctors who prescribe them, and the people who sell them, in a handy database that the feds can easily obtain.
Just goes to remind you that we need to imagine what the bad guys could do with our institutions, even when the good guys are the ones building them. Vigilance.
jl
@goblue72:
Need to have an explicit and simple policy agenda that can, and do, shout from the rooftops that addresses voters’ concerns. Funny how doing that creates charisma on the fly.
Worked for Sanders and the president elect (still have to avoid typing that name too often, or I get sick to my stomach), not people with any political charisma or charm to anyone at the beginning of the primary season.
Most of Trump’s policy proposals are toxic (for the bigots) or fantastical economic promises (for the ones pissed off over getting screwed repeatedly over last fifteen years) but they were loud and simple. And with current degraded state of current political coverage, nothing really to counter them, from either Democrats or the Establishment GOP losers.
Fact that two outsiders like Trump and Sanders could go so far so quickly on BS bigot economic populist and progressive (respectively) shouting, should have set off alarm bells in both political establishments. Neither could react quickly enough (the GOP is so corrupt, I doubt it could react no matter what the time frame)
lamh36
Some facebook truth from Luvvie Ajayi!
goblue72
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Have you deluded yourself to think that bothers me? Seriously. Get clue moron. Few more pigs taking a bullet wouldn’t have changed the outcome of the election (given that we lost), and maybe there’d be a few less pigs oppressing folks. I live in a neighborhood where we don’t call the cops when there’s a problem because we’re afraid they’ll kill somebody.
Seriously, you sound cranky. Go get your mom to nuke you a couple of hot pockets.
Raven Onthill
We now have Trump saying, “Trump told the Wall Street Journal in a Friday interview that he wants to keep the prohibition against insurers denying coverage because of patients pre-existing medical conditions, and allow children to stay on their parents’ health insurance plans until they’re 26.”
This will, of course, probably destroy the individual health insurance market, or at least make it very much more expensive. But I suspect the insurance industry will shut it down. I am beginning to think that the insurance industry will protect the ACA. When all is said and done we are more likely to see modest changes to the ACA (I am guessing a relaxation of the MLR limits) and modest cuts to Medicare (or possibly a greater push for privatization), sold, respectively, as “repeal and replace” and “improvements/Obama’s fault.” Bringing the insurance industry into health care may, in fact, protect the ACA, by giving a wealthy industry an interest in protecting it. Not going to be good for customers, though.
Mr. Mayhew?
Shalimar
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: I didn’t see it. Which thread and where?
Gin & Tonic
@goblue72: It starts all the way down at the bottom. State legislatures and even below, Dems are under-represented. I think this is structural, and is at least partly related to the destruction of labor unions, which gave some natural base of political activity and organizational skill. I think of my little town, which is completely meaningless in the scheme of things, but we have a 7-member town council. The R’s always, always, always run a full slate of candidates. This year the D’s got 3 people to put their name up. 3 people, for a 7-member board. Other tiny part-time posts, like the Board of Assessment Review, things like that, more often than not the R runs unopposed. Out of 50 state legislatures, how many are controlled by the R’s? 38?
Being Senator or President is nice, but when there’s nobody playing semi-pro or AAA ball, how do we get to the bigs?
dr. bloor
@debbie:
It’s encouraging, but it sets SCOTUS back immeasurably and, even more critically, constructive action on climate change. I lived through Reagan and Shrub with faith in the resilience in the republic. The republic might well survive this reign of (t)error as well, but it will be for naught if the planet burns due to inaction.
Corner Stone
I honestly could not care less who runs the DNC. My main complaint about DWS, beyond being seemingly incompetent, was that she was so up in the sheets with her fellow R FL Congresspeople and would not hang them out to dry. Which was her fucking job as head of DNC.
Oh, I mean I don’t care as long as they don’t install a Black, Muslim dude in that spot. Yuck! Ick!
rikyrah
Here is an excellent tweet about Dems ‘ understanding’ the Trump voters and why that’s bullshyt
Peale
@Matt McIrvin: Yep. I also would use that map to caution against the idea the simply because democrats won a big share of the under 50K income bracket that somehow we reached the “working class” voter. Since young people make less at the beginnings of their careers than the ends, winning that 18-25 demographic might explain part of that win. .
dr. bloor
@Corner Stone:
Wait, what? There’s your problem right there.
Shalimar
@Raven Onthill: Ryan already has the bills ready to dismantle Obamacare. He will have someone explain to Trump why you can’t keep the protection for pre-existing conditions after you get rid of everything else.
Adria McDowell (formerly LurkerExtraordinaire)
@Major Major Major Major: not only that, but couldn’t the Feds also fuck around with California’s portion of the water pact they have out west? That thing is old as hell, and I know there is some litigation going on between those states (Colorado, California, Nevada….am I missing any others?), so the courts might be “persuaded” by the executive branch to give California a much smaller portion of water.
If so, holy shit.
sukabi
@goblue72: isn’t that the same group that likes to screech about states rights?
Gin & Tonic
@Raven Onthill: I’m not Mayhew, but have spent a lot of time in insurance. Insurance companies make their money by being small-c conservative. They hate change. The ACA was phased in over a fairly long timescale, they had the chance to adapt their procedures and rules and manuals, and to find a way to make a few shekels in the process. Tell them on, say, January 22, 2017 “throw all that shit out and start over” and every lobbyist they have (and they are legion) will be twisting arms.
Emma
@Brachiator: Whoa. I didn’t know any of that.
delphinium
Also as an OT: a commentor on an earlier thread expressed disappointment with regards to how Obama is handling the transition. I know it has been a horrible week but can we please refrain from this? Obama has shown more class, dignity, and grace in his term than Trump and his family combined ever could do in a thousands lifetimes. This can’t be easy for him and we need to be supportive of him.
Corner Stone
@SiubhanDuinne:
Maybe if John Podesta emailed somebody about it we may find out, eventually. But right now. Probably not.
Felanius Kootea
What do people think about the upcoming Louisiana Senate election? Is it worth throwing Foster Campbell some $$$? The article I linked to says the Republican has a huge advantage and the Dem (Campbell) has to soothe feelings from attacks on the other Dem in their jungle primary. Still, one more Democratic Senator couldn’t hurt if it’s in the realm of reality.
Major Major Major Major
@sukabi: “States’ rights” just means ‘n—-r n—-r n—-r’, ask Lee Atwater.
@Adria McDowell (formerly LurkerExtraordinaire): Those states have been in litigation over water constantly since they were founded. I don’t know that the feds can do much.
Mary G
@Gin & Tonic: Yep…as much as they bitched about O-care they would hate to go back to just having a lot of uninsured people. No money in that.
EBT
@Major Major Major Major: That is an understatement. Sometimes it looks like there will be a shooting war over the water.
Omnes Omnibus
@rikyrah: It’s great. It’s also in the OP.
Corner Stone
@dr. bloor: Just never interested me. I have too many other vices I have to keep a grip on.
jl
@Raven Onthill: My two cents, though I am not the technical geek that Mayhew is.
I did research on health benefits packages for a number of years. The health insurance actuaries and medical directors, can see the inherent instability of an unregulated insurance market is slowly tearing viable risk pools apart. They saw their business model as slowly dying. Assumed there would be some regulatory reform in a decade, or else the individual market would shrink dramatically. Main opponents to reform were those crony capitalist firms who lived in the cushy world of large organization employment and institutional risk pools that were not hard to figure out. Those guys got reality therapy when they tried to make a quick buck on under regulated federal state insurance exchanges.
I think most of the insurance industry wants more regulation, but they will bargain hard to capture most of the revenue that comes from better definition and preservation of insurable risk pools, and they will want all the of savings from improved social efficiency. ACA gave in to their demands too much for their own good.
As with other things, we know more now. I’d like to hear from Mayhew why employment provided insurance did not decline nearly as much as expected? Did economists goof up (that they goof up is always a good bet) in thinking that the favorable tax treatment was more important than it really was? Was the fact that insurance for large employers and institutions provides a good indicator of average risk, and that is what is really critical to making a buck without doing too much work?
Emma
@lamh36: I propose we concentrate on taking down CNN. Bastards.
Peale
@SiubhanDuinne: i think it would be hillarious if he “rented” his fabulous Post Office Hotel to himself for the duration and charged it back to “the people” at a profit. I think that would be fitting.
Steeplejack (phone)
@Mnemosyne:
Hmm. Are they cheap enough that it’s not a big deal to change them every year? Sort of like smoke detector batteries. LOL.
Jerzy Russian
@Steeplejack (phone): I have got a few large picture frames (18 by 24 and 20 by 30 inches). I am not sure how well those adhesives would hold up. Right now I am drilling small holes and putting tapcons in.
After the pictures are hung I will start getting rid of some of the accumulated junk. I am trying to make my space here orderly, as suggested by someone here earlier.
Corner Stone
@delphinium: Obama does not have any choice. He is also a decent and honorable man. This is always what he was going to do if the worst of the worst happened.
Anybody expecting Obama to do anything but peace, class and love for this country – even when this country hated him and his family – are worthless shit-gibbons in their own right.
I, on the other hand, am not decent nor honorable. I am also not the POTUS. So I can say that I want the foundational structure of this entire country to work together to destroy the Trump presidency and administration. Beat back white supremacy, ignorant and racist bigotry, and just show these fuckers the future isn’t coming. It’s here. This is our country now, as it always should have been, and there is no “taking back”.
jl
@Mary G: The insurance industry has known for a long time that under regulated individual insurance markets tear themselves apart, and that is was a slowly shrinking industry. They want regulation, but also want to grab very penny of any social surplus that more efficient market make available. They also want to still be able to game the market, just a little, to skim off some bucks, just not enough to wreck it. They don’t know what they want, except just something that allows them to rake in bucks.
Edit: I have done research on insurance benefit design and revenue forecasting. I think many people, believe, mistakenly, that most large corporations have a solid understanding of what they want or know what they are doing. I’d like to see a long Mayhew post on that point. Won’t be quite as colorful as what I have read in emails, but I think he should try to write as honest a one as he can.
bluefoot
@lamh36: That’s a nice, mild headline. We all know what a “law and order” Trump presidency means….
.
jl
@Corner Stone: I disagree with Obama on a lot, particularly economic policy. But I think Obama is smart and acts in good faith. As infuriating as it is, Obama is doing the smart thing, and I think it is best chance for some of Obama’s important achievements to survive the next 4 years.
Steeplejack (phone)
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
I’m sure that somewhere there is a full-throated screed by McConnell saying that bringing back coal will revitalize his state. Somebody needs to dig that up and paste it right next to his current waffling. Ditto for all the other GOP muckety-mucks when they start hedging.
dr. bloor
@Keith G: He’s talking about keeping the pre-existing conditions and minor-to-26 stuff, and pointedly vague about how he’s going to pay for it, which is the only thing that matters. Benefits without mandated insurance is a nonstarter, even for the spend-now-let-Dems-deal-with-it-later Congress.
trollhattan
@Peale:
Good god, that seems too obvious for him to not do it.
I suppose submitting presidential tax returns is now a thing of the past as well. I presume he’s drawing the salary too.
OGLiberal
Here’s my take on everything, shared by my wife. My son has Crohn’s disease, my daughter has NF-1 (look it up, not good even though she has nothing wrong with her right now). These are pre-existing conditions that never go away and that are not caused by anything environmental – ie, even if they weren’t just 10 and 9 year old kids they didn’t get this because of bad life choices. Trump has promised to repeal Obamacare. The GOP and Trump have nothing in terms of replacement other than a) state lines bullshit and b) making it harder for people to sue doctors for fucking up. The repeal of Obamacare puts me at risk of losing the ability to cover my kids if I ever lose my job and no longer have employer provided health insurance. With my son’s condition, in particular, I’d need employer coverage ASAP. But that likely wouldn’t happen. So rather than taking a consulting gig with a nice rate but no insurance, it would better for me to work for Walmart stocking shelves and putting my kids on Medicaid. Is that what the wingers want? Actually, they probably would rather Medicaid go away because some brown folks use it.
I have no sympathy for the white economically “anxious” voters in WI and PA and MI. Fuck you. And fuck the white women in this nation who should have been not only extremely worried about a guy who will openly grab your daughters’ pussies but who will also put your kids at risk on many fronts. You voted for this extremely qualified woman in lower numbers than you voted for a black dude with Hussein as his middle name. There is going to much more at risk from the shit this dude and a non-veto checked Ryan Congress will do than some dude yelling Allahu Ahkbar. So, fuck you, mamma bears. From this ultra white dude who grew up in an almost all white town and went to a very white college and works at a very white company – fuck white people.
I’m pissed. And I’m done. Fuck organizing….we elected Donald Fucking Trump as president with a black dude as president whose approval rating are exceeding second term St. Ron the Gipper and an increasingly improving economy with unemployment rates getting close to “full employment”. We aren’t fighting wars. Illegal immigration is down. Crime may have ticked up a bit in the last couple years but still much lower than 1980 or 84 or 88. Clinton had Obama’s list, his people, his staff in key states, his backing. But we elected an authoritarian prick as president because she’s a woman and tough and might give shit to brown people (along with poor white people, but they’d rather suffer with the brown folks than have the brown folks get the same stuff).
I’m not going anywhere because I can’t but fuck this country. If I lose my job and can’t get health insurance for my kid, you want my little boy to suffer excruciating abdominal pain because you don’t like strong women and brown people? Fuck you, you heartless fuckers!
goblue72
@jl: Democrats have the same problem. The party is addicted to fundraising from Wall Street and financial institutions – as well as increasingly from the tech community which tends to have an anti-regulatory – and fiercely anti-labor – bent.
All discussions about taking back the WH should be tabled and verboten, for at least 2 years. There should be only one focus – taking back the states, and as function of that, taking back House districts. Democrats DO win in places that we have been bleeding but shouldn’t.
Sherrod Brown knows how to win in Ohio. Not because he changed his tune, but because he hasn’t. And his tune has always been to stick close to an economically progressive message, to be strongly against free trade, strongly pro-labor, and avoid getting drawn into (for the most part) identity politics fights. Amy Klobuchar is awesome. She wins with fat vote margins, easily better than Franken, and she’s been generally good about pushing back on “free” trade. Bob Casey Jr. just keeps winning re-election – and he’s good on most the issues, another rock solid union and anti-“free” trade guy, and he’s good on almost all progressive issues – but Party progressives insist on giving him the cold shoulder because he’s an anti-abortion Catholic.
Granted, those are all Senators. I don’t know much about who is out there on the House side, given how decimated we are in the House and like most folks, I mainly know about House members in my own state. And what it takes to win in California is not what it takes to win in the rest of country.
Adria McDowell (formerly LurkerExtraordinaire)
Some possible helpful advice in our future “law and order” administration, especially for POC: if you have a conceal carry license, make a copy of it and give it to someone you trust. That way, no law enforcement officials can say you were packing illegally if “something should happen” to your license in the hands of LE.
Kay
It’s gross how the political media are really reveling in Clinton’s defeat. The snottiness and sneering feels very personal – directed at this individual rather than a candidate. It’s unprofessional.
More and more it reminds me of how they treated Al Gore.
jl
@goblue72: WRT to things like NATA and TPP, always remember to keep ‘free’ in quotes. Most of them were crony capitalist trade agreements, those are the parts that have caused most economic dislocation. Also probably the not at all free trade parts that are most responsible for slowing (not increasing) growth rat of lower income compensation all around the world, in low as well as high income countries.
goblue72
@Felanius Kootea: Campbell is toast. The NRSC will throw whatever $$$ they need to at that race, and its a run-off election, so voter turnout easily could skew older and more conservative. Add to that demoralized Dem voters who will likely just stay home since Campbell winning still doesn’t win the Senate.
Roger Moore
@Corner Stone:
Bear in mind, that isn’t a serious attempt to get Trump to do that. It’s more of a rhetorical device to be able to blame it on Trump when he does nothing and things get worse.
Steeplejack (phone)
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
I just looked at the linked article:
So even five years ago this was a dead issue. McConnell’s just been demagoguing it. Big surprise.
But, hey, let’s bring back those 6,000 jobs and make America great again!
goblue72
@jl: Yeah. I think I missed the “” a few times. And agree with the rest of it. I’m a big fan of CEPR and economist Dean Baker, who provides a useful pushback to the “free” trade advocates whose “free” trade is primarily about exploitation of labor arbitrage. Though I am seeing more economists lately starting to re-evaluate their prior inflexible positions. Dani Rodrik is the 1st one who comes to mind.
jl
@goblue72:
” what it takes to win in California is not what it takes to win in the rest of country. ”
Run against the GOP here, and you are good. GOP brand is poison, as is bigotry. I think one reason Trump is poison here is that everyone knows somebody personally, works with or friends with, or relative, of someone Trump insulted or made fun, did some bigot act about, during his campaign. That leaves aside women of course, I assume people all across the country know some women (but I don’t claim to be very current on social mores in some regions of the US).
Corner Stone
@jl: Let’s be clear. I have had monumental disagreements with policy President Obama has put forth, and god damn definitely strong opposition to personnel he had in his Cabinet.
He’s POTUS and I am not so I get to wank away on that. But I always considered him a decent man, even in making life and death decisions I vehemently disagreed with. That job is a monster. I can’t even imagine.
I respected him and his family because he showed grace, class and humor at himself. He revered the office and it showed. He respected the fact he was president of all the United States even with all the hateful baggage that came at him. Having some fucking cracker yell “You Lie!” at him in the chamber. I would still be punching that fat fucking piece of shit. Having this disgusting attempt at a human being harass him for years to show his papers. We all know.
Obama understands this country, even as we say he may not have got how violently his opposition would be. He gets the country, he loves this country and he respects this country and what it should be. We can go round and round about all this but IMO, he’s just a good, honorable and decent man we probably never deserved. We got lucky Bush was such a monumental fuckup and Obama saw his opening.
bluefoot
Saddest comment I heard all week. On Wednesday morning, a Chilean friend said to me, “I lived in a military dictatorship once. I guess I can survive it again. But I hoped for more for my kids.”
Jesus Christ.
Also, I just need to say, it’s only been a couple of days and I’m *so tired* of white people telling me what to feel or how it won’t be that bad. How they hell would they know? Have they ever been denied a job or a place to live because of their race? Or been beat up because of it? Or been stopped by the cops three blocks from home for no reason? I have. Even in this supposedly liberal state of MA, and not in the distant past either. Hell, I even had a (white) friend tell me on Wednesday “not to burst his little bubble about how great MA is.” He couldn’t stand a little reality of what it’s like to be a minority here, and would rather pat himself on the back about how wonderfully liberal it is here.
Major Major Major Major
You guys (except some of you fuckers) and what I guess we’re calling “the secret facebook group” have really been keeping me afloat this week, so thanks.
Just saw this post, a screenshot that a mom found on her 7-year-old’s computer:
Roger Moore
@Gin & Tonic:
One word: edibles.
Tilda Swinton's Bald Cap
notoriousJRT
@Mary G:
My sense is young people don’t believe there will be any pie left for them in whatever years the government will call “golden” in the future. That story has been being told since I entered the workforce in 1980. I think it may have been a way to sell moving to 401(k) plans from pensions. I don’t know how you overcome the gloom that Ryan peddles and wants to ensure comes about.
Kay
Is there away to stop media from using “blind trust”? It’s not accurate. Donald Trump is using this phrase to mislead people. It’s a lie. This isn’t a “blind trust”. It’s a regular trust. It’s too late to get any information from Donald Trump other than what he feels like releasing but we shouldn’t be force-fed lies.
jl
@bluefoot: I agree with you. I am white. I could easily get very bad here, if people are not willing to stand up and make their voices heard. It could get very bad civil rights wise for some of the white people who are counting on what exactly I do not know to re-assure themselves, could easily get very worse for racial and ethnic and religious minorities.
I really fear some drastic action restricting voting rights. How long will it take to recover from that? And how much damage will be done in a country run by an ignorant bigot white minority in the meantime?
goblue72
@Major Major Major Major: Sweet.
gogol's wife
@Major Major Major Major:
Oh, God, don’t make me start crying again!
Love you.
frosty
@EBT:
Mark Twain: “Whiskey is for drinkin’, water is for fightin’.”
jl
@Kay: Destroy the corporate news media, probably only way. Try to persuade people to stop believing the BS it pumps out.
Adria McDowell (formerly LurkerExtraordinaire)
@Major Major Major Major: awwww!
I think A LOT of young ladies have been inspired by her. It’s only a matter of time. If people think women aren’t going to try and shatter that ceiling, they are sadly sadly mistaken.
Baud
@jl: Yeah I thought we were strong enough to overcome that this time.
Sigh.
jl
@Tilda Swinton’s Bald Cap:
“And if he doesn’t, we will hold his feet to the fire.”
This is on OLD white woman. If the GOP decides the restrict voting access for OLD people who might want to hold one of their boy’s feet to the fire, exactly how will she do that? I’d like her thoughts on that. A fool.
Edit: amazes me that some white people cannot see that they are on same list as other declared enemies of the GOP, just further down. Racial minorities, ethnic, young and old (who will vote wrong when the GOP steals their social security and medicare), have all been targets of voter suppression). Some white people are complete fools.
MomSense
@OGLiberal:
I am so sorry. There are a lot of us feeling just like you do and struggling with what could happen to us and our families. All I can say is that I will do whatever I can to fight changes to the ACA that would put your children at risk. I know that this community feels the same.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
You can’t seem to not respond, Dwight.
Funny, Dwight, a couple of weeks ago you were bragging about your office in a glistening tower with a view of the San Francisco Bay.
Kay
@SiubhanDuinne:
If Trump is not planning on living in the White House the first thing we should look at is whether it’s a way to avoid oversight/disclosure/transparency.
That’s why he’d do it. He didn’t reveal anything in the campaign because if he has done so it would have been damaging. He’ll be jumping thru hoops to avoid any disclosure of any kind now.
Baud
@Major Major Major Major: That’s bittersweet.
HinTN
Late to the thread, but I am heartened by the fact that even Tennessee is blue in that map. FSM grant us patience.
Tilda Swinton's Bald Cap
@jl: I LOL’d when I read. She is a complete dumbass.
Kay
@jl:
It’s probably too late. “Blind trust” will stick. They’ve already flooded the zone with this bullshit. They’ll have to start verifying every word and phrase. Don’t repeat what he says should be the default.
OGLiberal
@Corner Stone: That’s how fucked our country is. We had to have a monumental failure to win Congress in 2006 and the presidency in 2008. And we lost Congress soon after 2010…hell, without Specter switching parties we don’t get Obamacare even before that. We are at a serious disadvantage at the state level. Dickheads in Congress who are looked at a “respectable statesmen” by our media allowed an empty seat on SCOTUS to go unfilled, allowing a lunatic to fill it. I’m still not even sure how Obama won in 2012, given this year’s result. Actually, I think I do know why. Romney was a relatively decent fellow but so uninspiring. Voters just stuck with what they knew. Trump is a vulgar monster but he fired folks up. Racist, sexist, paranoid, etc, folks but he fired them up. Couple that with a large enough percentage (not many people, mind you, but enough) of “progressives” voting for Jill Stein or Gary Johnson or staying home and you get Trump. She won the popular. She won Virginia convincingly. She got more votes in Texas than Obama and cut the gap from 16% to 10%. In Arizona she cut the gap from 9% to 4%. In Georgia she cut the gap from 7% to 5%. In each of those state Trump only got a bit over 50% so it’s not like gaining 3-5% in places like Idaho where the GOP candidate is still at 60%+. So she did make improvements. But it just may be time for the Democrats to say fuck the Midwest and maybe even PA. Don’t forget their needs and concerns, just try to get electoral wins elsewhere. Because those states are going to stay very white for a long time because people are living longer and it seems an unfortunate number of racists/scared folks are successfully passing down their fuck up values to their kids/grandkids. If you don’t have exposure to folks who aren’t like you in race or religion it’s easy to hate/fear them.
Another Holocene Human
@WarMunchkin:
Cosigned.
Kay
I was thinking about what I’ll miss about Obama and it isn’t the “hope”. I actually really liked the grim Obama, the “realist” Obama, when he’d launch into “this won’t be easy”. He treated us like adults. He had high expectations for our ability to understand complex problems and issues. I’ll miss “but it is ALSO true…” :)
It just seems like such a step down.
debbie
@Major Major Major Major:
Yes, I agree. That group has been a savior.
Omnes Omnibus
@Kay:
Step is an understatement.
Baud
@Kay: A step down the edge of the Grand Canyon.
Baud
@debbie: What’s the password?
Miss Bianca
@Iowa Old Lady: It’s back. Whew! I think I will download to a drive tonight, just to be safe…
OGLiberal
@MomSense: Thanks, and I know you/they will. But there are just too many people in this country – rich, middle class and working class – who think that nothing bad will ever happen to them that will require help from somebody/something other than their family or church. Bad shit did happen to me but I always voted as if it could because I knew it could and because I knew it happened to other people and wanted them to have the help they needed. And with employer provided insurance currently I’m OK, but I’m a market driven layoff away from not being OK. (I’ve been with my firm for almost 15-years, I’m hardly a slacker) That half this nation is so fucking selfish and near-sighted that they’d vote for this dude or any Republican fills me with deep sorrow and despair. I’m not being hyperbolic – my wife and I have been like zombies since Tuesday evening and this is about the only site I can visit. Even TPM had a long and well written and well thought out essay by John Judis about establishment Hillary not paying enough attention to the concerns of economically “anxious” (I’m so fucking sick of that) white folks in the Rust Belt. I like and respect John Judis but fuck that noise.
debbie
@Baud:
Adam’s got it. Drop him an email.
MomSense
@Kay:
I’m in a media blackout at this point. Bastards.
Another Holocene Human
@EBT: The GOP would be insane to make MJ a partisan issue. So far it actually hasn’t been (much as many Dem/left activists wish it were so). Please proceed, Mr. Giuliani.
Felanius Kootea
@goblue72: I’ll throw some money his way anyway. Seeing all the millennials demonstrating in Los Angeles and other places gives me some hope that some of them might turn out in Louisiana. There are young people who want to fight now. May not work out like you’ve said, but I’ll give it a shot.
Miss Bianca
@goblue72: Why, oh why, didn’t we exploit this as a motivating factor for the youngs and the Stein/Johnson curious? “look, forget these chumps – they’re not going to win, and if TRUMP wins, bye-bye your legal bud!” //
MomSense
@OGLiberal:
I’m with you. Fuck that noise. Too many spiteful, selfish, greedy, unfeeling assholes who can’t seem to muster decency let alone compassion.
Major Major Major Major
@debbie: When you get the invitation on facebook it will be obvious.
Baud
@debbie: Thanks. Do you recommend all caps?
MomSense
@Kay:
A chasm, a horrible wound, an abomination, an assault. I can’t take it.
debbie
@Major Major Major Major:
Yes, it’s there now.
@Baud:
Sorry, I’m too untech to know what you mean.
delphinium
@bluefoot: This may not be much comfort to you but I have been talking to 1 of my co-workers very regularly this election cycle and we have touched on this topic of how minorities are treated in the country. She is a life-long Republican voter and her family also always voted Republican. She voted for Hillary. I can’t say for sure if anything I said persuaded her but she (a white 66-year old) was horrified by the Trevon Martin incident and by other more recent events. I can’t even begin to imagine how you feel and I am beyond sorry that certain factions of this country cannot do anything except hate those who are not like them. But there are people on your side and we are going to stay there.
Baud
@debbie: It was more of a Cole joke.
Major Major Major Major
@debbie: That was meant for Baud, sorry.
Baud
@Major Major Major Major: Oh, thanks. I don’t really do Facebook. But thinking of checking this group out since so many people were talking about it.
OGLiberal
@Kay: Even in 2008, when he was giving the “hope and changey” speeches, between the lines, and not really so hidden, I saw a deep realism that really made me gravitate towards him. I didn’t think Hillary was some dreamy idealist either but I correctly foresaw what the right would do to a candidate Clinton and went towards the no-drama guy. Hillary was, not incorrectly, paranoid and closed…that came from years of right wing BS. They threw everything at Obama as well – birthplace, Bill Ayres, Rev. Wright, college transcripts, etc. – but I could tell that his instincts would be to react to stuff like that with, “please?”, and brush it off, where with Clinton, even with it being complete BS, she would have Huma delete emails or go to the bunker for days. Obama mostly just ignored the BS. When he couldn’t – eg, with Rev. Wright – he came out and gave an address that drowned out the original controversy with the import of its message. I would have been happy with either Clinton or Obama in 2008 but I thought the stakes were so high that we needed to go with the no drama guy. In 2016, I thought it was time for Hillary. O’Malley was meh, Liz Warren is fantastic but not yet possible at a national level yet (and given her age, probably never), and Bernie would have been tagged a dangerous Commie the moment he won the nomination, making him un-electable from day 1. Unfortunately, white Americans suck.
debbie
@Baud:
Got it. I assumed mustard was the code word.
Mnemosyne
@Gin & Tonic:
This. Kay has been screaming at us about this for years. Too much focus on the presidency, not nearly enough on local and state races.
debbie
@Mnemosyne:
Exactly why I was so angry when Ohio Dems went with Dinosaur Ted over the younger, more dynamic challenger.
Major Major Major Major
@Mnemosyne: Yep. Republicans have a pipeline all the way from precinct committeeman or whatever to the top.
Jeffro
@Raven Onthill: I would not be surprised to see that they trim coverage in order to reduce taxes on the wealthy that are paying for these plans . The fallout from taking health care coverage from 20 million people would be way too intense
Hill Dweller
@Kay: It’s a flight of steps down. Trump isn’t fit to shine Obama’s shoes. I’m going to miss both the President and First Lady. Gallup has PBO’s approval rating at 58% today. I won’t be surprised if it’s above 60% by the time he leaves. Once they’re gone, I think more people will realize how lucky we were to have them both.
goblue72
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: What you fail to recognize, is that even in well off liberal cities, the cops suck – and we have sympathy enough for the homeless meth-head on the street, that while we really would like someone to pick him up so he’d stop shitting on the stoop, we aren’t going to call the pigs, since they have this nasty habit of shooting first, de-escalating mentally ill or drug-addicted people later.
You really are a fucking idiot.
Kathleen
@Corner Stone: Which pundits are actually saying that? Can’t believe they’d do anything to harsh white people’s mellow.
Mnemosyne
@OGLiberal:
My Trump-voting cousin that I’ve been arguing with on Facebook? She has two sons fathered by her first husband, who had a particularly nasty version of MS that didn’t show up until after they had their kids. And it’s genetic.
But, hey, it’s not going to be HER problem when her kids need healthcare for their degenerative disease since they’ll be adults by then, amirite?
Emma
Ceterum autem censeo CNN esse delendam.
Miss Bianca
@lamh36: thank God for Luvvie – you know, I was wondering about that aspect of it myself! Talk about catching the car! “This wasn’t supposed to happen, you idiots – I was just supposed to make a huge pile of money grifting the rubes! NOW WHAT??!!”
goblue72
@Felanius Kootea: Good luck and good for you. Just figured I’d give an honest assessment. I’d love for Dem to win in Louisiana. Buts its an uphill battle even on a good day. They only have one Dem in statewide office – Gov Bel-Edwards. And he’s a conservative, pro-gun, pro-life, ex-US Army Airborne Ranger Dem, who won because his opponent was David “Diapers” Vitter.
Kathleen
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Didn’t he demonize Hillary for saying something along those lines? Of course Hillary could never win in Kentucky anyway.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@goblue72: Dwight, you’re melting down.
Mnemosyne
@goblue72:
And Bay Area people try to claim that Burbank is a hellhole.
Major Major Major Major
@Mnemosyne: The homelessness problem here is really weird.
Miss Bianca
@Kay: This whole thing is reminding me of the Gore-ing. Including the clueless 3rd-party voters. “Yeah, the Democrat is boring and wonky and not INSPIRING. Ooh, let’s go for the shit-fer-brains I’d like to have a beer with!” Except neither of the shit-fer-brains drinks, but whatever..
I thought 2000 was as bad as it could get. How wrong I was.
Miss Bianca
@Major Major Major Major: What’s “the secret FB page”?
Mnemosyne
@Major Major Major Major:
We have a lot of homeless people here, too, but maybe our residential areas are more separated from the commercial areas where they hang out? They seem to build little encampments along the freeways here in the Valley.
Kathleen
@Emma: They all need to go down. MSNBC, NPR, CBS, ABC, NBC,
OGLiberal
@Mnemosyne: Yup, when their adults they can pull themselves up by their bootstraps, start their own business, maybe be yeoman farmers and make enough money to buy the best healthcare anywhere.
My son’s bi-monthly treatments that help keep him from living in excruciating pain costs 7 to 10 thousands dollars…that 6 times a year. That doesn’t count bloodwork, office visits and prescriptions. I’m already paying more now than I was when he was first designated because my employer took the Obamacare implementation opportunity to change our plan. They asked folks if they’d prefer to have either less taken out each pay check or higher deductibles/co-pays. Because I work in a non-risk Wall Street firm, most folks opted for the lower deductibles/co-pays…because, sticking with the theme, they never think bad shit will happen to them. The result is that my paycheck every two week is pretty much the same but I have to pay a lot more out of pocket for my kid’s treatment. It’s hurt us, big time. And that’s with a pooled, guaranteed issue employer plan. I lose my job, which can happen whenever, and can’t get something similar I’m effed. And work hard, always have – ain’t not laziness here.
Major Major Major Major
@Miss Bianca: Ask Adam.
Mary G
Warning/Politico link: Trump’s transition website plagarizes a copyrighted non-profit website.
Major Major Major Major
@Mnemosyne: Nobody really knows what the deal with the SF homeless is. People have been trying to solve it for decades. But with the national ‘tent enclave’ rate increasing nationally, it’s also increased here, to the point where it’s become a quality of life issue rather than a live and let live issue. There are also obviously humanitarian concerns, but it’s become a political flash point.
Kathleen
@debbie: I’m still regretting my primary vote. But I think we have a stable of young talent in Cincinnati. I think PG could do very well state wide.
OGLiberal
@Mary G: This type of ineptitude will never end with his administration and he will pay no price. He’ll beat the piss out of Kaine/Duckworth in 2020. The only thing stopping that from happening is his own attention span – he actually may get bored with being president or too lazy to keep it up, resulting in either a non-run in 2020 or an early exit. Hello, President “Jesus is my co-pilot, but the Jesus I imagine, not the one the bible actually talks about” Prence.
CaseyL
@Brachiator: NO!! Napoleon Solo and Ilya Kuryakin were my first TV crushes. I’ve had a sweet spot for both actors ever since.
Damn damnitty damn.
Miss Bianca
@Major Major Major Major: errr…OK
Peale
@old_owl: its interesting. I think theda, as usual, is right on the networking aspect. I think judis likes the “messaging” strategy because it is far cheaper. What theda proposes though is really expensive. judis doesn’t want to hear it but there might not be as many Bernie supporters in those areas as he thinks. If the mobilizer in many states was Koch + NRA + Church, better messaging wouldn’t have helped either Bernie or Hillary.
Look, I’m not opposed to running out to the exurbs and beyond to see if we can improve the margins, but because of the expense, it may not be worth it unless it also helps mobilize other groups that are nominally within the party. Would making a dent in the margins there also help, say, help mobilize Hispanics And African AmericAns who also live in rural areas in great numbers, enough in certain states to offset other deficits?
Major Major Major Major
@Miss Bianca: It’s named [Hillary’s favorite item of clothing] plus “Nation” but it’s a secret group and you need to know somebody who’s in it. It’s for posting things of strength and hope etc. in a place where you know you won’t be harassed. It has 3.5 million members but like I said, somebody has to invite you.
It’s secret because of online bullying and in recent days it’s been getting trolls so people stopped posting the name.
dogwood
@Keith G:
I live in a red state so I might start communicating with my all GOP Senators and congressman that as a Trump voter I voted to build a wall and keep dangerous people out of my country. I didn’t vote to lose my health insurance. Maybe I’ll start emailing the Trump White House as well.
OGLiberal
@dogwood: You’re in a red state. I’m not. Well, we spend at least half the year in PA and we don’t vote there but it’s now red, but just barely. In NJ, my county votes red but not my entire state, not at all. Why do non-rich voters in red states vote GOP?
Miss Bianca
@Major Major Major Major: Tracking
Miss Bianca
@dogwood: : )
OMG…the lefty variation on “rick rolling”…”TRUMP TROLLING”!
Denali
May have already been mentioned, but wanted to alert commentators about the petition at Choice.com to appeal to the Electoral College electors to vote for Hillary Clinton on December 19th. More than 2 million people have signed so far. If enough people take to the streets and enough people take action, maybe change is possible!
SiubhanDuinne
@Miss Bianca:
I’m a member and would be glad to invite you. If so, email me at SiubhanDuinne (at) gmail (dot) com, and I’ll give you my FB contact info and invite you to join the secret group ;-)
ETA: Offer obviously applies to any Juicer. Mention BJ or something I’ll recognize in your email subject line.
Emerald
@OGLiberal: Obama is, I think, one of the greatest U.S. presidents. He certainly would land in the top ten and eventually in the top five, I think.
But everything, everything, everything that he did is now going to be undone. Somebody yesterday said he was a more tragic figure even than Hillary, and I think that’s right. Without lasting accomplishments he’ll be rated a failure.
However, I expect his post-presidency to be magnificent. This might be the wisest, smartest, most clever leader we’ve had since Lincoln, and somehow I suspect he’s going to pull out a win, eventually. I just can’t imagine how, yet.
goblue72
@OGLiberal: PA is not a “red state”. WI is not a “red state”. MI is not a “red state”. IA and OH aren’t even “red” states. Most of those are traditional “blue” states and a few are swing.
This whole idea that you abandon the MidWest because “fuck white people” is lunacy. We are NOT winning Arizona. We are NOT winning in Texas. We are NOT winning in Georgia. I don’t care how much Hillary decreased the gap in losing in those states.
Jesus, the idiocy. “Fuck white people” is not wining electoral strategy. White people vote. And they vote at higher rates, more consistently, year in and year out, every election. DEAL with it. You either go after their vote or lose to the Republicans. We even lost white Millenials, for chrissakes. And as those younger voters gets older, they will vote at higher and higher rates.
This isn’t about anyone’s fee-fees. This is about winning. You are either in this to win, or you are not serious about politics. You want to go someplace you can get your moralizing on? Go to church. Its open every Sunday and its free. You want to win elections? Then you figure out who the people are that vote all the fucking time and figure out how to get ENOUGH of their votes to win. You don’t need them all. You do not need Goober McGoober with the literal Klan hood in his closet. But you do need some of “those” people.
And no, “those” people do not need a 100 point position paper on how you are going to modify the EITC or set up an even more complicated Rube Goldberg machine to get them health insurance or some means-tested welfare program.
Because here’s one for you – we won Minnesota by 2 points, or by just under 44,000 votes. Obama won Minnesota in 2012 by almost 8 points, or 225,000 votes. And you can’t blame that on voter suppression, because its Minnesota. There wasn’t any. That’s fucking Minnesota. 2 points.
Fricking Democrats. Get punched in the nose, and immediate response is to want to just pick up their ball and go run home.
Emerald
@Miss Bianca: Yeppers. It almost seemed as though the shitgibbon was stunned at what he’s gotten himself into. He knows he can’t do the job.
For a fleeting moment I wondered if he was actually humbled, and that’s why he said he might not repeal the ACA. I also kinda thought that Obama charmed him with his customary grace, and that the shitgibbon was stunned at that too, and maybe he wouldn’t overturn everything Obama did ’cause now he likes Obama.
For a fleeting moment.
But the moment fled.
SiubhanDuinne
@Emerald:
I agree. He will go down in history as one of the Greats, and that makes me happy. But right now, yes, his legacy and his eight years of accomplishment (in the face of unprecedented hostility and obstruction) are about to be swept away like so much rubbish. I am sick at heart for him, and for Michelle (does anyone really think that Melania is going to risk her perfect manicure wielding a hoe or pulling weeds in a vegetable garden?). Remember how Jimmy Carter installed solar panels in the White House, Reagan tore them out, and Obama re-installed them? I will not be surprised in the slightest if Trump rips them out again. It’s not only legislative and administrative progress that’s at risk, it’s the symbolic but profoundly important initiatives as well.
God dammit, I’m crying again. Didn’t think I had any tears left.
Miss Bianca
@SiubhanDuinne: Sweeet…Merci!
OGLiberal
@goblue72: Ok, so tell me how we do it. Globalization is real and party neutral. Coal is dying because of natural gas, not the EPA or tree huggers. Yes, we can do some things cheaper offshore. Manufacturing of some things is cheaper offshore. What’s ironic is that the rules we’d have to put in place to “prevent” this are antithecal the what the Trumpites believe. They don’t want more jobs here – they want whatever jobs will line their pockets.
All presidential cancidates are, to some extent, narcissicts. Only a few are sociopaths. The latter is more dangerous. The dude getting reaxt to take office is both. Enjoy!
bluefoot
@delphinium: Thanks. I sincerely appreciate it. My task for the weekend is figuring out what to say to the nieces and nephews. The ones older than 5 are pretty freaked out and scared. They expect me to be the smart (!!) aunt who has answers. Not this time – and I can’t lie and say nothing bad will happen to them. (My own childhood experience in the Rust Belt makes me all too aware of what can happen to a seven year old multi-racial kid on any random day.) So I have to figure out what to say besides that I love them and I will always be there for them and that I will do my damnedest to make things better.
SWMBO
@bluefoot: That will be enough. Kids, especially the older ones, realize that grownups don’t control everything. Or sometimes, anything. What they will hear is beyond your words and how you feel about them. And that is what makes it enough.
Matt McIrvin
@OGLiberal: One of our biggest problems was that the two Democrats who emerged as the biggest economic-left-populist stars in the last several years–Elizabeth Warren and then Bernie Sanders–were both quite old people. So whoever is the party’s great hope for the future, it’s not them.
LongHairedWeirdo
Re: the liberal impulses and such – that reminds me of something.
The Repubicans do two things well. First, they try to make their weakness *your* weakness. So: we need to study that, and do it.
Second, they have *never* cared about the working class. But we let them *pretend* they do because we keep getting confounded by how they win rust belt voters.
So: first, point out stuff like how the Republicans are the pro-abortion party. Come one, why are they trying to destroy Planned Parenthood? It’s all an act – they need to claim they love babies, while making double-damn-sure that programs that help actual babies who’ve been born aren’t given any help. But if they wanted to stop abortion, they’d fund the heck out of PP.
Second: keep hanging their lack of populism around their neck. They *are* the parties of layoffs, offshoring, free trade, and more-for-the-big-shots, nothing-for-you. Don’t stop hitting that theme, no matter *what* they say.
With a weak willed Trumphold like Trump in the office, it’ll be even more fun to do this!
(Trumphold? You know, That p-word that means “cat” or “vulva”)
LongHairedWeirdo
Oh: regarding playing Trump against Republicans? We should try that, but BE CAREFUL.
Trump is calling for infrastructure investment. Now, we all knew the Republicans wanted this – they just refused to do it for 8 long years, holding back jobs and economic growth, because they didn’t want Obama to get credit for it. So, now, gosh and golly, Trump will push them to do it, and claim a great victory.
Don’t fall for it. They asked him to play that card, just like they asked medical insurance providers to have sky-high rate increases, to give them reason to attack Obamacare.
Raven Onthill
Masha Gessen: Autocracy: Rules for Survival
1. Believe the autocrat. He (it usually is he) will do what he says he will.
2. Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
3. Institutions will not save you.
4. Be outraged.
5. Don’t make compromises.
6. Remember the future.
Read the whole thing.
OGLiberal
@old_owl: That about the same number of white women – rural or not – voted for Romney, a decent man and father but one whom with I disagree with on many things, as they did for a sexist pig with whom they probably wouldn’t want to leave their teenage daughters alone with, was the biggest problem in this election. Fuck white men – they’re hopeless (I’m a white dude). But white women had the opportunity to put a white woman in the White House for the first time, a white women running against probably the most sexist candidate since women were given the right to vote and a lot of them passed on that opportunity and voted the same way their asshole husbands did. Why? Maybe they are as sexist and as racist as their dudes. Whatever, white women could have overcome the white dudes in this election and they didn’t because where Hillary lost voters in those Mudwest states she should have won was with white voters. But there are enough white women voters in those states who, if they voted for a white woman against a guy who said he’d come and grab your pussy if he wanted to, they could have easily overcome the 1 percent or less deficit she had in those states. They didn’t. Fuck them.