Paul Ryan just announced that as part of repealing Obamacare he plans to phase out Medicare and replace it with private insurance for retirees.
I believe that part of why Trump was won the primary is that he didn’t go along with all the American Enterprise Institute about entitlements. Will he along with it now? If he does, that could do more damage to our country than just about anything else on the table (other than nuclear war or becoming a client state of Russia). It would also make him a one-term president. Let’s see what happens.
I think Trump is no genius and that he’ll mostly do what the Republican establishment tells him to do. I don’t know if he’s quite dumb enough to take a bite of this particular shitburger though.
Schlemazel
We need to get AARP on this. The hoverround crowd will light them up.
Walker
I am not convinced the Republicans are a unified front on this. Even with the fillibuster removed, are you saying that there aren’t 3 Republican senators that won’t try to save Medicare?
Poopyman
I hesitate to accuse Ryan of thinking strategically, but such an early announcement suggests a trial balloon. When the shit blows back in his face the idea will quietly disappear.
Now let’s make the shit hurricane happen.
Kay
So funny. All the pundits were predicting yesterday that one Party rule wouldn’t be hard Right radical. We were getting an infrastructure bill! Bipartisan! President Trump is almost a Democrat, really, when you think about it!
They never learn. Always further Right. Always. Trump will be far to the Right of Bush, just like Bush was far to the Right of his father. They don’t go the other way.
mai naem mobile
I want to set up a dozen fake old fart conservative twitter accounts and cheer Paul Ryan on to privatize Medicare and SS. Also get rid of all public schools.
Poopyman
OK, before I ossify into the Fighting Chairborne of the Left, I gotta get moving and do things.
Great things are afoot! But first, the laundry.
Fair Economist
@Poopyman: I agree this is a trial balloon and it’s likely to get popped. But, Ryan did actually get something like this through the House in 2012. There was remarkably little pushback. IMO the Democrats should have been running against that and not Trump, even in 2016.
Kay
@Poopyman:
I disagree. Scott Walker announced the game plan. They’ll ram through as much far Right policy as possible while the country is still reeling from the prospect of President Trump. They see this as a once in a generation opportunity. I knew they wouldn’t moderate. It’s not who or what they are. We’re going hard Right so prepare. I think people will be shocked at how far they go and how fast.
Peale
Well this will be a test. How many people can they get to believe the lie that Obamacare Bankrupted Medicare and this is our only way to save it.
Gromit
Doug!:
I think the lesson of this week is that we underestimate the power of stupidity at our peril.
Adria McDowell (formerly LurkerExtraordinaire)
@Walker: I think any Repuke that doesn’t go along with it will get primaried from the right. The GOPukes have long memories.
OT: Last night was the first time I left my house since the election. We took our little one to her gymnastics class. It’s a pretty diverse school, with lots of minority kids mingling with white kids, male and female coaches, both white and black. A part of me was hopeful, seeing all those kids interacting with each other, not caring where their friends ancestors came from, just enjoying each other’s company and running around like crazy people (the younger ones anyway- the older gymnasts are much more disciplined). It gave me some hope for the future.
OTOH, I felt uncomfortable because other than my husband, I didn’t know how many fascists I was hanging around. I think this election will make people feel they can’t trust each other. Suspicion will rule the day.
JPL
@Peale: All of them Katie
If you know any Fox news watchers send them this.
http://www.cbpp.org/research/health/medicare-is-not-bankrupt
Peale
@Kay: yep. Look at the state governments. Look for them to put as many roadblocks to the democrats ever getting power back as quickly as possible too.
Kay
You know what the funniest part is? The GOP will replace Medicare with Obamacare. There aren’t that many ways to do a subsidized privatized health insurance program. It will be Obamacare with tweaks.
It’s just an AMAZING lie, the scope of it. No part of it is true.
Another Holocene Human
Elections have consequences.
dm
Don’t be sure they’ll go “too far” and pay any consequences. Just look at Sam Brownback in Kansas or Scott Walker in Wisconsin. The piper sure is patient about the bill.
Kay
@Peale:
It was amusing to listen to because it’s like whistling in the dark. The punditry is nervous. They’re soothing themselves with this bullshit about infrastructure while the radicals are planning on burning the place down.
They will miss the story AGAIN.
gogol's wife
Wow, all the liberals have fled the New York Times. I went to the Public Editor expecting to see her being pilloried in the comments, and she was — for the NYTimes’s unbelievable bias TOWARD Hillary Clinton. The entire comments section at the NYTimes is now Trumpistas.
Peale
On the plus side, all those voters who never seem to realize that Republicans want to do these things will learn that indeed they do.
I think Ryan is probably smart to do this now. Get it done in February during a snowstorm when the media will be covering the global warming hoax. The voters will forget it in 18 months
Kay
Are the multimillionaire cable news anchors celebrating? HUGE tax cuts for them and they finally get to loot Medicare and Social Security. Pop the champagne corks. The 1980’s are back!
FlipYrWhig
@Kay: McKay Coppins on Chris Hayes’s show was saying that there would need to be some good reporting about the way the Trump business empire would be run in Trump’s absence. I was at the gym so I couldn’t say WHY DIDNT ANY OF YOU STUPID MOTHERFUCKERS LOOK INTO ANY OF THAT MONTHS AGO BEFORE THIS PUSTULE GOT ELECTED PRESIDENT FUCK FUCKITY FUCK FUCK FUCKFACE
jamesjhare
I can’t really get excited about them overreaching like this. My parents are both nearly to retirement age with a host of pre-existing conditions. My brother and I really started our careers right as the Great Recession got started so we’re way below where our earnings should be. I don’t know what the hell they’ll do.
Peale
@Kay: look at his transition team. Does it look like he’s planning on running a normal administration? Filled with Rockefeller republicans?
gene108
@Peale:
All of the, Katie (except Balloon-Juice readers).
The hatchet job done on Obamacare for eight years has people primed to believe it has destroyed Western civilization.
PeakVT
Trump is likely to sign off on this kind of thing early on because he just going to sign everything. Later in his term he’ll start vetoing random bills just to show Congress who’s in charge. But by then the damage will be done. And how.
Kay
@Peale:
Yup. They have an unqualified moron as President too. That’s when they’re at their most dangerous. Trump doesn’t give a shit about Medicare. He has no idea what it is.
WereBear
@Kay: The key to being a conservative is never learning.
rikyrah
@Kay:
Not shocked in the least, Kay.
Betty Cracker
@Kay: Yep. Medicare will become Obamacare, and Obamacare will become a deregulated private insurance market that sells shitty coverage that no one can afford. Perhaps Mayhew is contemplating the implications over a bottle of scotch right now. And let’s not forget that the much-maligned Obamacare actually was bending the cost curve in the right direction. That will all be obliterated, including population health management incentives, etc., that were starting to bear fruit.
Baud
@Kay: There’s always chicken bartering.
JPL
@Gromit: They’ll tell him, that they are saving the program for future generations.
He wants to be a hero.. .
BillinGlendaleCA
@Kay: They’ll replace it with coupons(aka vouchers), it’ll go over really well with the Silents.
gene108
@Peale:
No they won’t and if they do realize it, they find ways to rationalize and justify because the alternative – Democrats – are so much worse.
WereBear
That isn’t what is bothering them. But perhaps learning that this means them, too, will sink in.
A friend mentioned all those personhood amendments that keep sinking because when it gets right down to it, even the Fundies don’t want to be painted into that corner.
JPL
If you are active on facebook, please post this article
http://www.cbpp.org/research/health/medicare-is-not-bankrupt
That’s one way to fight back
PeakVT
Also, now that the damage Comey did with his October surprise is becoming clear, can Obama fire the fuck? The “optics” and those that worry about them can get bent. Pretty much all harm possible has been done to the republic already.
Kay
@Peale:
Of course not. The punditry are frightened at what they just did and they’re currently in denial. They’re insisting there are “checks and balances” to President Trump and far Right one-Party government but it’s a fairy tale.
Highways, Peale! It’s about highways. They’re fucking panicked.
gene108
@BillinGlendaleCA:
What they will propose, and have proposed in the past, is everyone near retirement age or already enrolled will get to keep benefits as they are. Younger folks get the vouchers and private Social Security accounts.
Edit: That way old people will not be affected and will continue to vote R, kids and grandkids be damned.
Tenar Darell
Wait a minute— I can’t find that anywhere including on Marshall’s actual edblog feed on Twitter —
rikyrah
@Kay:
Didn’t nobody believe that bullshyr but them, Kay. Bipartisan from the mofos who have voted against EVERYTHING Obama brought to the table.
socraticsilence
@Walker:
Oh this will split the Party- they can overlook racism and misogyny, they can’t overlook fucking over Seniors– remember Social Security Privatization and how Republicans dodged Bush like he had Ebola when he came to their home states?
JPL
@gene108: The olds are more concerned about their own medicare, so they will not object.
FlipYrWhig
The whole point of being a liberal is to care about what happens to people you don’t know, to look out for one another and so forth. Brother’s keeper and all that. Fuck it. If you voted for Trump, I don’t care what happens to you anymore. Oh, my sad white drug addiction? Boohoo. Oh, my plant closed, I’m out of work? Fuck you. Suffer more.
GregB
One party rule with the man who egineered the most powerful media/propaganda outfit the world has ever seen.
Much of the mainstream has been discredited.
Face Book has turned into the bullhorn for those grumpy rightwing uncle forwarded propganda emails.
Countering their message machine might be more difficult than some think.
Tenar Darell
@Tenar Darell:
@Doug!
Heads up this may be a hoax post, because this story isn’t showing up on Josh’s actual Twitter feed
OzarkHillbilly
@Kay: Yes. They have a narrow window and they know it (my guess is they figure Trump for one term) They are going to maximize this chance.
jheartney
@Tenar Darell: It’s real: http://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/and-here-we-go–9
Baud
@FlipYrWhig: You can at least point out their bootstraps to them.
Anya
The sad part is, GOP can decimate the entitlement and they’ll still get elected because of abortion, gays and POC.
Another Scott
@Kay: There is that risk, but I’m reminded of the way the House and Senate pushed back against Carter when all 3 were in Democratic hands. Just because they’re all from the same party doesn’t mean that their interests are aligned.
Sure, the Teabaggers want to get as much as they can and will push things to the right if they can. But Trump and the House and Senate have different agendas. Trump wants to always get his way and be treated “fairly” – meaning to always get his way. “If they screw me, I screw them back 10x as hard!!1” McConnell and Ryan know they have cards in this game – they’re not going to just roll over for Trump and give him everything he wants – they want to preserve their power and options going forward. And Trump wants to do bigly things – he isn’t going to want to do much more than spend lots of money (The Wall, DoD, ICE) while cutting taxes and budding-up to Vlad. All the rest (jobs for the Midwest, SCOTUS, Daesh, etc.) he doesn’t have much interest in, it seems to me. He figures building stuff will fix everything else automatically, and nobody will really care about Syria after a while (who cares about Ebola anymore, amirite?).
E.g. this talk of a huge infrastructure bill could be a huge bone of contention. The Teabaggers will want any money to be sent to the states to have them do what they want, along with directions that some huge fraction go to “public-private partnerships” like toll roads and selling off municipal water systems, dams, parks, and all the rest. Donnie is going to want all the credit and the glory, so he’s going to want control. Will they square the circle? Maybe. Will Democrats go along? They shouldn’t if it looks anything like that.
It looks really bad right now, and it’s hard not to see it being really bad for years to come, but Donnie and the GOP in the House and Senate aren’t on the same page now. Ryan is on a very short leash with his caucus as it is, Trump hates him, and I think they all know that their choices over the next session will have huge import. It’s easy to advocate gutting Obamacare, or vote to override Obama on the 9/11 victims bill, but there are huge consequences in doing so. Congresscritters aren’t going to knowingly cut their own throats, and they can’t plead ignorance about the consequences of blindly following Trump…
We’re going to lose a lot of battles, but it’s not going to be an automatic rout. Eyes on the prize…
But we’ll see.
Cheers,
Scott.
FlipYrWhig
@Baud: No such thing as a free bootstrap! aaarrrghghghghghgh
GregB
@Kay:
By the way, I hope some folks in the media remember the name Alan Berg.
rdldot
How is this supposed to get through the Senate?
Kathleen
@Kay: latest lament that polling didn’t reflect more trump loving white snowflakes because wait for it they’re too elitist. they really “missed the biggest story of election”.
Dia
@FlipYrWhig: this
Schlemazel
@socraticsilence:
This is why we should encourage them to try. Along with building the wall it will divide the party & upset the nation. That might take some steam out of them
jonas
@Schlemazel: Well, a lot of those hoverround folks did say they wanted government out of their Medicare.
mai naem mobile
I am trying to not freak out and BJ is making me freak out even worse. I finally turned off auto correct ao my comments dont look like a five year olds. Get Camachoss tax returns. Thats where youll find impeachable stuff. I dont care about impeachment but it eats up time which is what the Dems need to do. Gum up the works whichever way it can de done.
rikyrah
@Kay:
Miss the story. Are you kidding me? They ignore the story. Ryan’s plan is not new. He has passed it before but they chose not to report on what it actually is.
Gromit
The good news is that there will be loads of jobs in the coal mines for all the seniors who can’t afford their medical care.
Scott
Quick quiz question: What would be the premium for an 80-year old man with diabetes and cardio problems?
Two answers: One real and one snarky.
Real: We don’t know. It’s never been done.
Snarky: Answer is zero. The 80 year old has already died from lack of health care.
JPL
@rdldot: They already have the obamacare repeal passed. It will be added during reconciliation.
This is the article in nymag http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2016/11/paul-ryan-says-medicare-privatization-is-on.html
jheartney
Obamacare was a large, complex beast with many moving parts. It’s not the sort of thing you can handwave into existence. There’ll need to be buy-in by insurance companies, subsidy levels set, state-by-state rules, etc. etc. etc. There’s no way the GOP puts that together in a few weeks, or probably, ever. So doing this will be indistinguishable from just abolishing Medicare.
Bear in mind that a fair number of folks on Medicare are not 65. If they haven’t set up anything, those people get thrown onto the street right away.
F
No fucking way is this happening. Enough Rs in the House and Senate care more about their jobs than supply side fundamentalism.
FlipYrWhig
@Gromit:
And then in a few thousand years they become coal themselves! It’s, like, renewable.
Jeffro
@Kay:
That they do.
But Trump is not about being far right…he’s about Trump. And while cutting entitlements is Ryan’s agenda, it’s not Trump’s – at least not Social Security and Medicare (as that would affect the paler working-class folk of this nation quite a bit. So would cutting Medicaid, but I doubt he sees it that way).
He’s a moron, but he’s not Ryan-stupid on this issue. And I don’t see a way for him to justify support for Ryan’s plan into something he ‘had’ to do in order to get support for dropping O-care: supposedly, Republicans were all for eliminating O-care before anything about Medicare was ever brought up. Remember “keep the government out of my Medicare” signs at Tea Party rallies?
FlipYrWhig
@jheartney: @F: Republicans will blame all negative outcomes on Obama and his terrible Obamacare that made the bad thing happen, and at least half of the people getting thrown out into the street to be sick and die will accept that and curse Obama between their hacking coughs.
RareSanity
@Schlemazel:
Won’t help.
The key to the statement is “phase out”, which translated means, “beginning with the oldest, not current members, age group that won’t hurt us electorally in the short term.”
So basically my age group, Gen Xers, will be the first generation since the New Deal to not have Medicare.
As if it wasn’t enough for our generation to be the one on which the phrase “latch-key kid” originated, they’ve figured out a way to extend that phenomenon into our retirement.
rikyrah
@jamesjhare:
I am not excited. I don’t know any rich people. Everyone I know, across races, ethnicities and religions, they have been working their lives . My sister is a double breast cancer survivor – who the hell would insure her? As it is, she pays the equivalent of a note for a very nice car in insurance premiums each month. And was looking forward to Medicare in a couple of years.
I have a friend who finally was getting her medical issues right because of Obamacare, and she has been inconsolable.
Fuck all you Trump voting muthaphuckas. ????
Steeplejack
@Tenar Darell, @jheartney:
And there’s a confirming story at New York magazine.
GregB
@JPL:
They will repeat “Because of Obamacre, Medicare is going broke.”
Repeated as often as Hillary Clinton’s emails.
This Obama broke Medicare will be a fact by December.
WaterGirl
I have to vent or I am going to scream.
Got a nice text from a friend’s husband on Wednesday morning.
(He is a nice “both sides do it” democrat who listens to NPR and thinks they are liberal.)
Him:
Karen says you are upset. It is hard to believe. He is a pragmatic businessman not an ideologue, though. Hopefully he focuses on being pragmatic and less extreme positions than he had in the campaign. Hang in there.
Short summary of reply from me:
Not pragmatic. Worthless, selfish, and hateful. All about fear and hate. No idea of what democracy is. We are well and truly screwed. I cannot stop crying. I think people who voted for Trump (the non-haters) have no idea what they have unleashed.
Him:
He is scary. I deplore his treatment of women. How he makes muslims the bad guys. Awful. Disappointed that we didn’t get our first woman president. Some extremists in his base, but mostly pool just wanted change. He is a good businessman and as such you gravitate to what people want. All we can do is go forward with our own personal journey.
Shorter Me:
He’s not a good businessman. He’s failed at every business he started. He’s a con man and a cheat. Signing off for now because I can’t even deal with this day. Going back to bed.
Nice message from him today:
Hope you are feeling better. Wednesday morning was hard for sure.
Me:
Fewer tears, more anger, but just as much despair over the upcoming destruction of the world as we know it. Already talking about getting rid of medicare. “No more muslims entering the country” is back up on his transition website. Along with promoting Trump businesses on the transition site. We are fucked. How are you doing?
Him:
I’m doing great! Maybe better than you (smiley face). Job is very cool. I teach Sunday school and love it. I guess I’m a person who accepts things and moves on pretty quickly. Heard your porch is cool, would love to see it when I come out next week.
Me:
Yeah, the porch is lovely. Glad you are happy and well. Hope to see you when you are here.
Him:
Yes, sounds good. I’ll give you a big hug and it will all be better. (smiley face)
Me:
No reply, but I want to scream. He is a democrat!
How do you go from this on wednesday: He is scary. I deplore his treatment of women. How he makes muslims the bad guys. Awful.
TO THIS ON FRIDAY: I’m doing great! I guess I’m a person who accepts things and moves on pretty quickly.
“Oh well, we are about to see the end of the world as we know it. Okay, let’s move on. I’m doing great!” This makes me want to scream!
danielx
Bastards aren’t losing an instant, are they?
JPL
@GregB: I plan on repeating, it’s a lie.
daveNYC
@gene108: Yeah, usually it’s something like 55 and over and you get grandfathered in. Everyone below that will start getting coupons or some shit.
If the Medicare gutting passes, then they’ll probably try Social Security in 2018/2019. 55 and up get grandfathered again, everyone below gets some sort of shit payout for what they’ve put in and some sort of horrible retirement vouchers to invest. Plus some seriously sweet cuts to the capital gains tax. Shit, probably taxes on all investment income will go to zero. Huge tax cut for the rich, bonus points because it’s also a large increase to the borrowing costs of governments.
mdblanche
Well, I was expecting overreach to be inevitable but I wasn’t expecting it to be this much this soon. I think people here are letting their despair over the election seep in way too much over their reactions to this. This is the most surefire way for the Republicans to alienate their base. The old whites want to be on top, not slit their own throats to spite us. And this is the one issue where even the most cowardly Congressional Dems can stay united and push back.
bemused
I remember when Bush went on the road having events across the country in 2005 to sell Social Security “personal savings accounts” but most Americans including Republican voters were not on board. Yet, those Republican voters just kept on voting for people who have always wanted to privatize SS and Medicare.
Bobby D
They are not stupid enough to let it affect the olds, who vote. They will go “phase in”, the boomers and silents will escape the effects, and once again my generation – X, and those after will get screwed. Fk you Republicans!
What a parting gift from the Boomer generation. One last chance for their generation to steer the entire world from the most powerful position on earth, and they give us the Orange Menace. It’s so depressing it’s almost funny. Us Gen Xers get accused of being cynical and wry, but my god, apparently you cannot be cynical enough to even keep up with reality anymore.
Kay
@FlipYrWhig:
The GOP base can stop it and they are the only thing that can stop it. The rest of us are irrelevant. The one and only thing that will stop Paul Ryan is a base revolt. Republicans work for 1. the donors and 2. the base.
I can’t muster up sympathy for middle aged people who are too lazy to vote or voted for Trump and one-Party government. At some point there have to be consequences. Enough. They’re going to get hurt this time. They jumped in front of a train and no one could talk them out of it. It’s time for some moral hazard to kick in.
Waldo
@Kay:
I imagine a lot of them are anxiously awaiting the diversion of the next horserace.
Schlemazel
@RareSanity:
AARP does not give a crap about old people per se, they care about their power to lobby. Their power dies without the support of old people yet to come. I would expect them to fire up the oldsters in order to maintain the future of their group
Emma
@rikyrah: I will have to leave the country after I retire. I’ve had two bouts of breast cancer — currently being treated with Tamoxifen — and my private retirement stash will go a hell of a lot more almost anywhere else, even if I still get my social security.
Added: even if I am grandfathered in.
Kryptik
@mdblanche:
We saw how easy the GOP base can get distracted with bread and emails. I’m not holding my breath.
RareSanity
@mdblanche:
While I agree with you in theory, they don’t need any Dems to pass this. All they have to do is structure the effective date so that it won’t affect current enrollees, or those very close to enrollment age.
Then BOOM they are able to pass highly unpopular legislation, with zero short-term consequences.
I think people are falling into the same trap President Obama did in his first term. These are not rational actors. They will pass it in the House without any Dem support and send it to the Senate. There, if Democrats try to filibuster or any other parliamentary tactic to hold it up, the GOP will just change the Senate rules, nuke the filibuster, and pass it anyway.
WereBear
@WaterGirl: yeah. Same line of stuff I heard from my FIL.
They’re in denial. They think the world still makes sense.
Kryptik
@RareSanity:
And far too many people don’t care if they don’t come out winning in this, long as the other side loses more. Plenty of those who will get fucked under the GOP rush to exercise their newly unlimited power over life and health will cheer it long as they get proof that blacks, hispanics, muslims, women, etc. get fucked over even worse by several magnitudes.
Tokyokie
My guess is that Trump will do Congress’ bidding as long as Congress does his. But nice of Ryan to tell us what the GOP plans AFTER the goddamn election. Wonder how many people went to the polls to vote for racism knew that they were voting for early deaths as well? The embrace of fascism invariably comes with a high death toll.
Mnemosyne
@OzarkHillbilly:
I think they figure that they’re going to lose the House and Senate in 2018 because of the looming Trump disaster, so they’re going to pass everything they possibly can in the next two years.
RareSanity
@Schlemazel:
I agree with AARP’s mission, however the effectiveness of that mission depends on the voting strength of their members. I have a hard time believing that the AARP will be able to create a lot of support on this from their members, on an issue that doesn’t directly affect them.
Voters over 65 supported Trump, Romney, and McCain with majorities in the 50% range.
Mnemosyne
@Kathleen:
They did miss the biggest story of the election: systematic voter suppression in the firewall states.
But that didn’t affect conservative white people, so they’re going to continue to ignore it.
bemused
@WaterGirl:
Just wow. I’m so sorry this happened. I’m stunned at how cheerful and oblivious he sounds. I would want to scream and sob too. He’s got his thumbs in his ears and singing lalala.
germy
@WaterGirl: It sounds like he’s flirting with you. Does your friend know her husband texts you hugs and smiley faces?
Walker
@RareSanity:
I am assuming the fillibuster is already gone. The question is whether the Senate will really lock-step on killing Medicare. If so, the only way to combat this is to rebuild the Democratic party. The vote was close enough that this overreach will make it possible.
GregB
By the way, has anyone noticed the unending and vitriolic scorn for millenials?
We are told they are the most spoiled and entitled people ever.
Taking away their social safety net will be easy.
They need some bootstrap living.
Morzer
@Mnemosyne:
I think that Kobach is on Trump’s team to find a way of making those mid-terms unwinnable by Democrats, no matter what the GOP does. Why else would you want a vote suppression specialist around?
Waldo
@Mnemosyne:
If that’s the case, they have more confidence in the good judgment of Americans than I do at the moment.
Jeffro
@mdblanche:
And speaking of over-reach: how about a new Un-American Activities committee? (not making this up, folks)
Tazj
@Kay:
That pretty much sums up the way I feel this morning, “irrelevant “, politically anyway. The Republicans will control all three branches of the government. Chris Collins, a prominent spokesman for Trump, is my representative. I don’t want people to suffer, but what can I do?
JPL
@mdblanche: It won’t affect them. Ryan will be saving the program for future generations, and Trump will be a hero.
Irony Abounds
They will push everything through this first two years, and anything that doesn’t pass then will get passed in the second two years unless there is severe voter backlash. Filibuster will be eliminated, at least “temporarily” in order to avoid any 60 vote nonsense. Until they get to appoint enough justices to allow them to take us back to the Lochner years, expect the Trump DOJ not to take any action to enforce civil rights act violations, of which there will be plenty. We will back in ’50s America unless there is a recession that derails everything. And, hypocritically enough, there will be enough infrastructure, tax cuts and huge deficits to try and avoid that recession.
SenyorDave
I think people underestimate/forget about two of Trump’s key advisors, Ailes and Bannon. They are reprehensible, and when they die they will be both be pushing boulders up hills for eternity, hopefully against each other. But they are very smart, and I think they will figure out a way to insulate Trump from damage as much as possible. Whatever happens, they’ll try to pin anything bad on Congress. And in a battle of wits, I’ll take Ailes/Bannon over Ryan/McConnell in a landslide.
Also, I hear they are pushing Bannon for WH Chief of Staff. the Democrats should push back hard on this. He runs an openly racist, anti-semitic website that is for white supremacists. Push the anti-semitic angle,, the media doesn’t give a shit about racism.
RareSanity
@Walker:
They have been trying to kill it, as a matter of course, since it was enacted. They see it as the way Democrats have been “buying votes” along with Social Security since the New Deal.
I agree that it would take a rebuilt party to reinstate the programs. Unfortunately, I would be working so that hopefully my son has a chance at them, because there’s no way all that happens before I reach retirement age in about 20 years.
Seth Owen
@RareSanity: if the phase-in is long then there is time to cancel it.
WaterGirl
@WereBear: I just got another reply from him that he has a beautiful view from the balcony at work, and they eat breakfast out there, and that life is what you make of it personally.
I wrote back to say that “I generally believe that’s true, but when people are going to die as the result of no healthcare and coupons for medicare and people of color are under attack that white people with privilege and money have to stand up for the people who are now under attack. Which now also includes anyone with a preexisting medical condition. Good people cannot stay silent.”
Hope I am not ruining a friendship here, but I don’t know what to do except to say that we have to stand up.
I can’t even talk to anyone who voted for Trump. I am so angry that I am afraid of what I will say. So I’m going to have to ignore my sister for awhile, even though we usually talk every day or two. I just can’t pretend that everything is okay. It’s not okay.
Mnemosyne
@Morzer:
That’s almost certainly the plan, but if they gut Medicare and Social Security, their own voters will turn on them like ravening wolves in 2018, so that’s why they’re ramming it through now.
Iowa Old Lady
@Kay: Yes, Ryan was talking about something like an exchange on which I can try to spend my voucher.
ericblair
@Walker: The Senate rules for the next session will tell all. If they stay as is the Dems can play hell with all of this. At least a couple of purple state GOP senators can force it, and/or McConnell will want to keep it so he can demagogue the nasty Dems for stopping all the wonderful Tea Party ideas.
Or Trump will nuke the whole thing because it’s Ryan’s baby and fuck Ryan. It’s all so gaddamn random but it’s life or death for do many.
I’m assuming Trump is not going to care about rural whites regarding this, because the rural whites have done what they needed for Trump so are now useless to him.
Jumbo with a 76
@Schlemazel:
To think that the old people who just voted trump into office will oppose attempts to cut Medicare and Social Security is foolish. They’re already on that team. They supported Ryan and McConnell before this.
Ryan’s proposal will undoubtedly be a phase out that doesn’t affect anyone who currently has Medicare, but will leave people under 40, if not under 50, holding the bag. The effects won’t hurt anyone until after the next presidential election.
WaterGirl
@bemused: I’ll give you a hug and then everything will be okay. I’m pretty sure that is the definition of cluelessness.
@germy: It may sound the way, but he’s not flirting. He’s a hugger and I always get a big hug from him, even in front of his wife. I do wonder if she realizes how clueless he is being right now, though.
I just got another reply saying “I agree. We will have to be vigilant.”
WTF? We’re supposed to go on with our happy little privileged lives while MomSense is having to figure out a plan for who will care for her 10-year old son if they repeal healthcare and she has a problem related to her blood disorder?
Then he said: “He’s not president yet so I am open to giving him a chance, even Hillary said to do that.”
Is he not listening? I can’t even look at the news and even I know parts of who his cabinet will be and they are teeing up medicare first thing. And that he still doesn’t want to let muslims in. And he’s still complaining on twitter about people demonstrating? Wake the fuck up and open your eyes!
Tazj
@WaterGirl: It’s difficult to come to terms with the fact that the country elected a man who reminds me of the boys who bullied me in middle school. The boys who constantly teased me about my looks but wanted to copy my homework because they didn’t bother to do theirs.
Mnemosyne
@Waldo:
Here’s my opinion: most of Trump’s voters are living in a right-wing fantasy world. They’re middle-class or better, they have comfortable lives, and they can read about all of the awful, awful oppression of conservative white Christians like themselves from the comfort of their suburban and exurban homes.
But. They have parents on Medicare. They expect to be on Medicare themselves someday. Trashing Medicare is going to prick a hole in that comfortable little bubble that let them vote against Feminazis and for baybeez endangered by abortion.
They are not — and will never — be Democrats, but they could very well lash out at the Republicans who burst their bubble and allowed reality to intrude on their comfortable lives.
RareSanity
@SenyorDave:
I don’t see what possible effect Dems pushing back on the selection of a White House Chief of Staff could have. There’s nothing they can do to actually stop it, and even if they could, it would be painted as Democrats being sore losers and trying to obstruct the Trump administration.
The pool of the GOP and its’ supporters has been so thoroughly poisoned over the past several decades with rampant bullshit, there is no cure for it. Everything that goes wrong is the fault of “liberals”, everything that goes right is because of what Republicans did, or what they stopped liberals from doing. It is the the ultimate lose/lose situation for Democrats.
Sprinkle in a little racism, nationalism, misogyny, and gerrymandering for good measure and there is a toxic headwind blowing against anything but societal regression.
Cain
@Tokyokie:
[sarcasm]dont worry we don’t need as much people anyways to work cuz robotics and all that, it’ll just be the rich elite and robots from here on in. [/sarcasm]
Peale
@Jeffro: and we were the new McCarthyists for wArning about close ties to Russia!
Jumbo76
Can someone please tell me: Why did six million people not show up at the polls?
Librarian
yeah, that’s what the German establishment said in 1933: “Let’s give Hitler enough rope.” It never works.
George Taylor
@FlipYrWhig: As much as it runs against my liberal beliefs, I agree with you. Trump voters have set back progress decades by electing a poser to the highest office in the land. He will sit in the office once occupied by Lincoln, Teddy Roosevelt, FDR, Eisenhower, Kennedy, and Obama. His name will be etched in my country’s history alongside Washington and Jefferson and Madison and Truman.
Whereas I might not actively make them pay, I sure as hell am not going to help anyone who voted for Trump out of any quicksand, literal or figurative. They all can sink and rot.
Waldo
@WaterGirl: Some people won’t grasp how bad things can get until things get bad for them personally. If we’re talking about well-off white folks, a lot of damage may be done before they see the light.
RareSanity
@Seth Owen:
Sure. But you’re going to have to hold both houses of Congress and the Presidency before the phase in date to do it.
Considering that a phase in would probably target people that are now 50 and under, we have about 10-15 years to do it. Call me a pessimist, but I don’t have a lot of confidence that can happen.
Culture of Truth
Trump is crazy, so our only hope is that for policy he relies awful but sane Republicans like Paul Ryan. Or is that the worst case scenario?? Led by the nose away from populism to the tea party corporate agenda? Dear god…
SenyorDave
@RareSanity: There has to be a line in the sand against racism/anti-semitism/sexism, and Bannon should be it. The Breitbart website is a fuckung cesspool and the few times I have looked at it make me want to puke. One of the Democratic senators can get in touch with the ASDL, they have a ton of clout. Don’t ordinarily wish ill on people, but I would love to see Steve Bannon take a walk and drop dead, a la his predecesser, the one and only Andrew Breitbart. That man should not be near the levers of power of the White House.
WaterGirl
@Waldo: You are absolutely right. Unfortunately.
F
@Irony Abounds: McConnell has already said no to infrastructure.
Shalimar
Yes, Trump is dumb enough to take a bite of this particular shitburger. He will sign whatever the Senate sends him. Ryan has already got it through the House the last 6 years running, even though no one noticed. The only question is whether McConnell can keep together 51 votes to get it through the Senate.
germy
@Jumbo76: saw this on LGM
Shalimar
@RareSanity: Previous versions of the bill that passed the House had the transition at 55 and younger.
Davis X. Machina
@germy: Why did Incompetent Hillary allow the GOP to purge all those voters and hand the election to Trump?
RareSanity
@SenyorDave:
I know, and I agree. But neither should Trump…yet here we are.
Chief of Staff is a position that the President gets to choose, it’s the person that runs his staff, and it’s usually someone that lead the campaign. Rove was Bush’s CoS.
germy
@Davis X. Machina: You’re right. She should have waved her magic wand over those states.
Davis X. Machina
@bemused: That, and not the war, may have flipped Congress in 2006….
ericblair
@F: So McConnell is willing to cross him already. While we certainly need the goddamn infrastructure, this is a good sign politically. I don’t think Trump is going to take this well. A paralyzed Congress and administration having a public Twitter war would be one of the better outcomes. Until the first crisis, then we’re fucked.
Any idea what this infrastructure is supposed to be? I fucking doubt anybody does, but given his self centered nature it would be fixing up airports and NY highways.
Davis X. Machina
@daveNYC: Active managment of private SS accounts would create mind-bendingly huge fees and commissions. And take the “Security” out of Social Security,
On the other hand, Mrs Clinton gave speeches to some bankers.
Life, like soccer, has a lot of 50-50 balls.
Omnes Omnibus
@WaterGirl:
I have been avoiding contact with people in real life since the election. I live in Madison, WI, so I am in a pretty safe environment. But I really don’t trust my reaction if I run into a Trump supporter.
rikyrah
@germy:
This is why there should be a person at the DNC would have this job to stop this.
Baud
@Omnes Omnibus: Yes, I’m lucky that I’m in an environment where I don’t have to come into contact with those people on a daily basis.
@Davis X. Machina: Emails tip the scale, however.
RareSanity
@ericblair:
McConnell will fold, this is all window dressing. Trump won Kentucky by a large margin so there’s little benefit for him opposing anything Trump puts forward. There also won’t be any consequence to him folding because Trump isn’t a Democrat, or worse, a black Democrat.
Walker
@ericblair:
Wow. Really? Of all things in this 100 plan, this is one the Democrats should support. I wonder if they can egg on the war here a bit.
Another Holocene Human
Here’s the thing: Obama showed us how Democrats can win national elections. We need to scientifically drill down into what he did and recreate it. Hopefully, Obama can help us with that now.
FlipYrWhig
@Another Holocene Human:
By being Barack Obama, apparently. Team Clinton did everything possible to recreate it and it failed. That’s where Jumbo76‘s 6 million votes are: people who like Obama qua Obama and don’t give a shit about Democrats, liberals, or whatever.
Steve Crickmore
@Schlemazel: ‘Give ’em enough rope’ Isn’t that being being too clever by half, again? We didn’t need the Russians to faciliate Trump. The DNC and the Clinton team chose it for themselves, the strategy of encouraging and faciltating Trump (for the GOP nomination), while on the other hand, sabotaging Sanders’ presidential campaign, which had mobilized millions of people and inspired a massive grassroots movement. How did that strategy work out?
Waldo
@Mnemosyne: Wouldn’t disagree with any of that. Just not at all confident the impending Trumpster fire is going to be toxic enough to flip the House and Senate. Of the 33 Senate seats up for grabs in 2018, 23 are held by Dems (25 with Bernie and King), and 8 of those are either in solidly red states or swing states that went for Trump. Gotta hold pretty much all of those and then bump off a few more repubs.
I shudder to think what kind of damage Trump would have to do to make that a possibility.
germy
@rikyrah: Keith Ellison.
Davis X. Machina
@Another Holocene Human: This is precisely how Clinton’s campaign was run. The real mistake was not nominating Obama.
Juice Box
For those of you with Italian ancestry or a spouse with Italian ancestry, you may be eligible for Italian citizenship. The paperwork is not fun, the taxes are higher than the US, but the pot of gold at the end is a Schengen zone passport and a constitutional right to health care.
karen marie
@Gromit: I think it’s an absolute given that Trump would sign this. He’s “not a politician,” so he doesn’t give a rat’s ass that this might hurt Republicans in either the short or long run. As for understanding this would fuck the poors? Let them pull themselves up by the bootstraps the way he did.
henqiguai
@RareSanity(#68):
Sorry dude, but that phrase did *not* originate with you GenXers. I was a latch-key kid and I’m a Boomer. It was being applied to kids back in the 60s, at least, if not the late 50s.
karen marie
@Juice Box: Would one great grandparent do?
WaterGirl
@Omnes Omnibus: I had my first contact last night with the woman that does some work for me. We are casual friends and I like her a lot, but I could hardly look at her. She helps with the garden cleanup in the fall and we set a date to do that on Monday and it’s my hope that I won’t have to see her again after that until spring. That’s very sad for me because I do like her a lot, but I just can’t do it right now. I just can’t.
She was it the house for a minute and admired the pecans on my counter. I packed up a bunch in a bag and handed it to her as she was leaving, and I managed to say the words “thank you”. But that’s all I could do. She texted on her way home to say that the pecans were fabulous (they are, they are this year’s fresh crop from the biggest grower in Illinois, and I had just gotten them at the farmer’s market) but I couldn’t even reply to her text.
I guess I am officially in the profound sadness + anger phase.
debbie
@henqiguai:
Certainly ever since society became depraved enough to let women out of the home. It’s their fault!
daveNYC
@Davis X. Machina: I hadn’t even considered the management fees. Oh yeah, that’ll be good times.
John S.
@RareSanity:
Gen Xers are the most conservative generation alive today. You and me are outliers.
debbie
@Omnes Omnibus:
I’ve now alienated myself from my family. It’s taken a couple days and many texts, but they now finally realize I meant it when I said I wouldn’t show up for Thanksgiving. Eight years of badmouthing and demeaning a man I admired followed by a couple days of really very tasteless gloating has shown me that my family is filled with assholes.
karen marie
@Tokyokie: People who didn’t know this was Ryan’s plan before the election have to have been in a coma for the past eight years, certainly the last two.
Jeffro
Meanwhile, Brooksie, looking for a post-Trump political movement, seems to completely miss the fact that there’s one that fits this to a tee:
Hmm…is there an American political party that does all these things already, and perhaps just needs to talk a little more about what it already offers to “rebuild community, foster economic security and boost mobility…integrate the white working class and minority groups by emphasizing that we are all part of a single American idea.” Why I think there just might be…
debbie
@karen marie:
But how many of Trump’s supporters depend on Medicare? I can’t imagine Ryan will get very far with this.
gene108
@jheartney:
They did a dry run last year in the Senate. They carved out what they could via reconciliation, so the Dems would not be able to filibuster.
They’ve been passing repeal bills for 5 years.
They probably have the law already written for them by ALEC and Koch brothers.
Baud
@debbie: I’m sorry. I’m proud of you, but that’s real tough.
FlipYrWhig
@Steve Crickmore: Still on this “sabotage” shit? THERE WERE PRIMARIES YOU STUPID MOTHERFUCKER. Your boy lost, badly, because his MILLIONS OF FIRED UP SUPPORTERS were FEWER than the supporters of Hillary Clinton. For fuck’s sake. I hope Bernie Sanders is happy with himself, because he had a lot to do with why Hillary Clinton lost, and I hope it pricks at his conscience until his dying day. But it won’t, because he’s a self-aggrandizing ineffectual twatwaffle too.
debbie
@Baud:
It is sad. There are nieces and nephews I love more than myself, so not seeing them will be a big deal. But I know the assholes and that at some point on that very long day, something will come up and I’ll throw a glass at their heads. I’m going to try and stay on the high road, even though that’s not my nature in general.
OT and I’ll post in Adam’s thread which I hope he’s monitoring, but it’s hit one of the hipper neighborhoods in Columbus.
Bitter Scribe
Oh dear God. How fucking stupid is Ryan? Can’t he understand that insurance companies don’t want to deal with old people because they get sick a lot?
I say “they.” I just turned 60 so that should probably be “we,” even though I’ve been blessed with good health so far. If I have to pay private rates for insurance, my retirement will be spent eating cat food.
RareSanity
@John S.:
But it’s not the same kind of conservatism. Meaning it’s not the Atwater/Nixon/Reagan identity conservatism, it’s more of the Eisenhower type, “traditional” conservatism…at least in my opinion.
I could be wrong though.
FlipYrWhig
@Bitter Scribe:
You think Paul Ryan is looking for the best way to help sick old people? BWAHAHAHAHA He’s looking for the best way to starve the government.
karen marie
@debbie: When will those voters hear about it, and what will they hear or be told. The media’s not a particularly reliable dispenser of accurate or relevant information.
mdblanche
@RareSanity: They didn’t need any Dem votes to privatize Social Security in 2005. They failed. Voting in lockstep is easy when you’re just saying no or voting yes to something someone else will block. It’s going to be a lot harder going forward for the GOP going forward to paper over their divisions.
And grandfathering in current seniors is not going to make it easier for them. Anyone who isn’t a wonk doesn’t know what that means. Low info votets will absorb it as much as they absorb anything their state government does, that is not at all. All most people will absorb is that the GOP wants to get its government hands on your Medicare.
RareSanity
@henqiguai:
Fair enough.
My point wasn’t necessarily the term itself, but what it communicated about Gen Xers. We were basically the first generation to experience the rise in households where both parents worked full-time. So we did quite a bit of raising ourselves, along with TV and video games.
Didn’t mean to offend.
karen marie
@FlipYrWhig: Thank you.
Baud
@debbie: Hopefully, your nieces and nephews will learn a valuable lesson about right and wrong from your absence.
RareSanity
@mdblanche:
We can agree to disagree. But I think Medicare is a different beast than Social Security. Plus, Bush was fighting uphill trying to pass it after the post 9/11 market crash. The consequences of having privatized Social Security were very prominently on display.
OTOH, Medicare can be lumped into the same “Obamacare sucks” movement, and as long as it has no effect on current enrollees, I think it will slide right by.
I sincerely hope I’m wrong and you’re right.
debbie
@karen marie:
Probably when they get cancelation notices. Then that shit will really fly.
Lizzy L
@debbie: The Clintonville article is 4 years old. The swastikas were painted in 2012. The story about Newt Gingrich pushing a new HUAC is from June. I’ve spent the last 2 1/2 days in a whirlwind of rage and fear, but those emotions are receding, and determination is taking their place. We need to protect ourselves and our families, we need to protect and support our communities when they are attacked, and we need to be vigilant and to be clear about our enemies: who they are, what they want to do. I believe Gingrich would love for there to be a new HUAC, but he’s not in Congress now, so his 6 month old suggestion is irrelevant, unless and until the House decides to do it. I don’t deny that they may. If they do, the first person they’ll go after is Hillary Clinton.
RareSanity
To add to my previous comment…as long as it is sold with, “If you are on Medicare, or about to be on Medicare, nothing will change for you”, that will be all the “low information” voters will need to hear.
Omnes Omnibus
@debbie: I am lucky in that my family (parents, brother, aunts, uncles, and cousin – the ones I see on holidays) are all liberal Democrats. Holidays are okay for me. Broader family, those I see only at weddings and funerals are a more mixed bag.
You have my sympathy.
Millard Filmore
@PeakVT:
I would be careful with that. Wikipedia says
which means Obama will not get to pick the next head. Things can get worse, LOTS worse. Think of Rudy Giuliani, or Chris Christie, or even the unlikely David Duke in that position.
mdblanche
@<a href="#comment-6109784">Kryptik: What is the modern day equivalent for bread for seniors? Medicare. So that’s out as a distraction. As for circuses, minority leaders make for less potent hate figures than presidents and presidential candidates.
JPL
@debbie: The article is four years old.
debbie
@Lizzy L:
Oops. I read the words, but not the date; however, I’ll consider this to be a placeholder for what is inevitably to come. ;)
debbie
@JPL:
Yes, I know that now. I’ve apologized.
debbie
I just got a WP message that I was posting too fast and telling me to slow down. WTF is this?
Peale
Oh good Lord Washington Post! “The Reagan Democrats are no longer Democrats” Yah think?
tobie
@RareSanity:
Couldn’t agree more. Every GOP voter I know couldn’t give a shit about anyone else. I’ve got mine is their creed. GOPers who are 65 and older are the most self-entitled generation. That they complain about the self-entitlement of the young, not to speak of POC, is one of the abiding ironies.
karen marie
@debbie: Too late then. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Tilda Swinton's Bald Cap
@Peale: 37 years behind the times, just think in 2054 they’ll catch up to Trump.
Peale
Thoughts on surviving an authoritarian regime
liberal
@Kay: this should be the rhetoric: They’re replacing medicare worth obamacare!
liberal
@Kay: why should the punditry give a shit? Most of them are wealthy enough they could get by without it.
liberal
@jamesjhare: conventional wisdom sez they’ll kill it only for those under 55
debbie
@karen marie:
My thought exactly!
WereBear
Here’s the sick sick thing: if Democrats manage to hold off disaster, the Trumpers will never feel any of the pain.
Kay
@liberal:
They’re reporting what Trump writes in his own tweets as “the news on Trump” because he told them to get lost again.
This Presidency will be authored by Donald Trump. They will carefully transcribe what Trump reports on Trump.It’s bizarre- like a 3rd world dictatorship.
We are ON OUR OWN. Every man for himself. Good luck, comrade! :)
dww44
@Baud: As am I. I visited FB for the first time yesterday evening and it was a revelation how tastelessly gloating GOP voters can be. Aside from attributing Trump’s victory to a ” blessing from God” and denigrating Clinton for having a nationally televised concession speech (“Dear God, Make Them Go Away”, they said), one of the friends wanted his liberal friends to answer why HRC was so thoughtless as not to address her voters in the wee hours.
So, I did respond and he was polite but says that this was indicative of her unfitness to be President if she couldn’t handle the emotion in the wee hours. That and her tripping getting of the plane and the fainting at the 9/11 anniversary event.
I didn’t respond. What good would it do? But, karma is coming. I hold on to that.
Kay
@WereBear:
That’s why Democrats shouldn’t do it. We have a one-Party far Right government. That’s the reality and that’s what people voted for. We can’t keep doing this. We can’t keep mitigating their risk and then they roll the dice again.
Just let it roll. It’s past time for a reckoning. They voted for this. I bow to the expressed will of the people. There has to consequences for actions. Democrats aren’t their mom and they’re not gonna bail them out.
Omnes Omnibus
@Kay: It goes against my general nature, but, sadly, I think you may be right.
Baud
@Kay:
@Omnes Omnibus:
Same.
OGLiberal
@gene108: I was told the olds were concerned in this election and “anxious” not because they were having economic issues but because they were worried about their kids and grandkids and this “anxiety” forced them to vote for a racist, bigot, authoritarian buffoon rather that some chick. Of course, this is BS – they don’t give a rat’s arse if their kids/grandkids don’t get the goodies they have.
dww44
27% of registered voters voted for the GOP.
Davis X. Machina
@Peale: Note to Post. Most of the ‘Reagan Democrats’ are dead. Macomb Co. Michigan 1980 was almost 40 years ago. And for most of the last 25 years, we called them ‘Republicans’.
gene108
@dww44:
That probably had an impact. A lot of people didn’t grok the “she had pneumonia, but toughed it out anyway”, but rather used as confirmation that “grandma doesn’t have the stamina to to do the job, because she got pneumonia”.
mdblanche
@karen marie: I seriously think you’re giving most people too much credit.
Tilda Swinton's Bald Cap
INBOUND 2016: Ta-Nehisi Coates Keynote on Youtube. This is about the election,
Enhanced Voting Techinques
What strikes me is Ryan linking it to repealing Obamacare. Ryan must know that such a blatant attack on Medicare didn’t work during Bush II, heck, the whole tea party was driven by seniors terrified the AHCA would take their Medicare away. Is this some poison pill to keep AHCA going? Ryan is a corporate con after all and the insurance companies have learned to live with AHCA and admitted it saved them from the death spiral they were in. I can’t imagine any insurance exc or corporate HR manager looking forward to what mess the GOP spews out as “replace”.
PsiFighter37
So depressing. I posted a forward-looking post on FB, but it’s hard to get over how badly things are going to be.
Tilda Swinton's Bald Cap
Sorry, Link “>
Peale
@Kay: Yep. I just don’t want any Democratic Senators early on to cave into their basic impulse to be “helpful” and “mitigate” this disaster. I want 0 democratic votes to repeal Obamacare even if they are from a deep Red State that voted overwhelmingly for Trump and they are up for re-election. This isn’t a “conscience” vote. We can’t continue to run a “compromising” candidate on who says “I went along with it so its less bad.” I voted against it is a much better answer to angry voters than “Well, I thought you wanted it. And I thought it was a good idea at the time but I changed my mind.” If we’re going to run on “restore medicare”, we aren’t going to be able to do that with a bunch of waffle weasels.
Peale
@Enhanced Voting Techinques: I don’t know how many times he has to say he wants to do this before people believe what he says.
Emma
@Kay: Preach it, sister.
Karen Andrews
@OGLiberal: of course when immigration stops and a lot of the young professionals start emigrating, who will take care of these selfish elderly a-holes. We r outta here
PsiFighter37
@Enhanced Voting Techinques: Uh…no? Ryan has made it abundantly clear how much he wants to starve grannies before. He really does want to kill the social safety net.
Steeplejack
@WaterGirl:
My condolences on your exchange(s) with your friend.
There is so much passive aggression packed in there it’s unbelievable. Poor, hysterical WaterGirl (oops!—bad choice of words—not!), you just can’t adapt and move on.
And the quality of his life is so much better and more meaningful than yours. That’s good to know.
There, there, little girl. You just need some not-creepy-at-all consoling from Big Daddy!
@WaterGirl:
Life is “what you make of it personally” for him because he has choices, most of which he takes completely for granted. He can eat breakfast on the balcony at work, and eventually get around to doing some real work (probably some form of white-collar pencil-pushing), because he’s not an hourly worker and doesn’t have his boss pounding his ass to get on the clock at the stroke of the hour and then not slack off ever until his 15-minute break three hours from now. Ditto for leisurely coffee breaks and shmoozing with Don in the next cube about the Cubs, etc.
Though I have clawed my way up to genteel poverty the last few years, I still remember the abject poverty I was in for most of the ’00s. Back then my “life is what you make of it” choices involved things like deciding between walking to work in freezing temperatures until payday or riding the bus and cutting way back on (skimpy) meals. And even at the time I knew there were a lot of people who had it much worse than I did. At least I had a roof over my head and a regular (though crappy) job.
So screw this guy and his feel-good bullshit. It’s not you; it’s him.
ericblair
@Walker: If McConnell folds and passes infrastructure bills that’s the best result. We want as much conflict and bad blood between the Senate and the apricot as possible. Much better if we get something out of it.
Mnemosyne
@WaterGirl:
There were people with Trump signs even here in very blue So Cal. One of my friends went to the sidewalk in front of her neighbor’s house and flipped them off, turning very slowly to make sure it was visible on every one of their 6 security cameras.
Mnemosyne
@Omnes Omnibus:
I just found out that I am related by marriage to Mike Pence — he’s my late uncle-by-marriage’s first cousin. I was kind of afraid of that.
My brother who lives here in CA sent me that Cubs joke I posted yesterday with the guy pretending to be an idiot Trump supporter, so I think Thanksgiving will be okay. I’ll have a better idea when I see his wife on Saturday.
ericblair
On mobile so no linky, but Senator Reid just came out with a NFTG barnburner of a statement that calls out our new reptile overlord. Worth a front page post I think.
Steeplejack
@F:
Then who the fuck is going to rebuild our roads, bridges, airports? I guess we’ll sell them off and make them toll operations. Privatize the infrastructure—genius!
Tom Betz
Sam Seder just proposed on The Majority Report: Somebody needs to start a Twitter campaign about how much smarter and more virile Paul Ryan is than Donald Trump. It will drive Trump crazy, and he’ll veto anything Ryan proposes.
Enhanced Voting Techinques
@gene108:
They tried that last time too and the elders rejected it. It’s their grandkids after all.
Tilda Swinton's Bald Cap
@Steeplejack: The Trump presidency will be guided by two philosophies:
1) The biggest Fuck you to liberals and 2) mafia bust out style privatization.
boatboy_srq
@mai naem mobile: Be careful what you wish for…
boatboy_srq
@Enhanced Voting Techinques: That works for Greatest Generation voters. For Boomers onward, though, not so much.
Millard Filmore
@WaterGirl:
Trump spent over a year declaring that he will throw half of the USA under the bus. The demonstrators are angry and afraid, and all Trump does is tweet out a big FU.
Enhanced Voting Techinques
@F: God Lord, Trump hasn’t even taken office and they are at it.
Bobby Thomson
He’ll sign it and the fucking hicks in the sticks will eat it up and ask for seconds. I really don’t think global warming is going to be much of an issue anymore. With the right rising around the world, we’re headed for another world war, and this one won’t end well.
henqiguai
@RareSanity(#165):
You’re still wrong. You’re, by your own words, black; but maybe you grew up in a more affluent neighborhood. But even for Boomer blacks, two working parents was not unusual. And by definition, as a latch-key kid, you were baby-sat by TV and did a lot of fending for yourself until at least one parent (or older caregiver) showed up. You got nothing special about you, as a cohort, beyond the extra affluence afforded by being the offspring of Boomers and the tech environment the older generations started putting in place.
Steeplejack
@Davis X. Machina:
Exactly. We just need to find another politician who is the equivalent of Hank Aaron, Gayle Sayers and Michael Jordan rolled into one. Easy peasy.
Ruckus
Have said this before. If you are old or if you are not and you depend on any kind of federal program for your health or income, supplemental or total, you are fucked. You may not be totally fucked, as in you are going to die in the next 6 months, but life as you know it will change and not for the good.
This is not a prediction, it will happen and it will happen soon. It is what the conservative side of the aisle has been wanting for 35-50 yrs. They are not going to lose this chance to destroy every program they can and cut taxes for the rich to zero.
And we have what way to stop them? Sure they are as organized as a kindergarten class with the teacher out of the room, sure they are less intellectual than that same class, but they have the power, with no controls.
Tuesday it became a living hell to be a citizen of this country, especially if you don’t have a lot of resources. And those people who voted for this? They are going to get it as good and hard as the rest of us.
You have arguments with the above happening? You think it won’t? Bring em on. Let’s discuss how this won’t happen, how it can be stopped, or how many of our fellow citizens can live through this experiment in bad government. I’ll wait.
Tell me how we live through this. I need to know, and so do many, many others.
Enhanced Voting Techinques
@boatboy_srq: The boomers are retiring, right now as we speak.
WereBear
@ericblair: here you go:
Senator Reid statement
Steeplejack
@Jeffro:
The Green Party, right?
Glue
@Tom Betz: I’ve been thinking the same thing. Also, trolling Facebook pages and sites these trump supporters frequent to sow the seeds of discord: “I hear Pence is aiming to impeach Trump so he can be President. Ryan and McConnell are on board.” Things like that. For all we know, it may even be true!
Two concerns:
1. unanticipated blowback that somehow makes things even worse
2. “When you stare into the abyss…”
Kay
We were assured the grown ups in the GOP would never let Trump be nominated. Then we were assured the American people would never elect Trump. Now we’re being assured that some mysterious element of “moderation” will kick in and this will be a very middle of the road Presidency and Congress. It’s bullshit. They’ve been whistling in the dark for 2 years and they’re still doing it. The institutions and norms failed. They’re still failing. It’s much more likely to get worse than stabilize and they’re not only unprepared to deal with it, they aren’t making any effort to prepare the public.
The completely unqualified President looks like Bush looked after the My Pet Goat reading- he looks terrified- and they’re all happily covering The Transition like he’s Eisenhower. We are on our own.
Another Scott
@Millard Filmore: His Twitter account flunky walked it back a while later.
Doesn’t change that he said it, but they’re trying to pay some attention to the optics…
Cheers,
Scott.
Ruckus
@Millard Filmore:
This is why I know that he will go along with whatever shit congress sends him. His holy highness wants to sit on a golden throne and have everyone lick his feet. He probably imagines them standing in and endless line from him to the moon, waiting for their turn to prostrate before his wonderfulness. And people have been saying fuck that? He’s fucking mature for a 3 yr old, not so much for a 5 yr old and he’s going to do whatever to make everyone his personal dick washer, even if it is financial rather than physical. He’ll show us.
ruemara
@WaterGirl: white guy, right? There you go. Things slipping back to default is ok for them. That’s how you learn their concern was academic.
Ruckus
@Another Scott:
Those sending out retractions aren’t the ones with the pen sitting behind the desk. He doesn’t listen to them, he listens to whatever it is that goes on in his head. He’s the one with the power to make this happen, he’s the key. And he has no filter, no better angels to slow him down or stop him. He’s never had power, how do you think he’s going to act? I’ve been in the navy with narcissistic captains/XOs but they had a system above them to at least limit the damage. It still was not good. He has no one to restrain him and is far, far worse than they were.
Adria McDowell (formerly LurkerExtraordinaire)
@Juice Box: thanks for this info! I know someone who might be eligible.
Also, I think there is a way to gain Spanish ancestry if you have grandparents or great-grandparents born there, but I don’t know all the details. Might have to look it up. I think they have a “historic memory” law that helps Latin-Americans with Spanish citizenship. Don’t hold me to that-just an idea.
Weaselone
@WereBear:
Maybe we should all take to wearing black eye patches, because Reid is the only politician willing to say the shit that needs to be said.
EBT
At this point I think if we don’t make legitimate gains by 2018 I won’t live to see 2020.
Adria McDowell (formerly LurkerExtraordinaire)
@debbie: I live in the C-bus area. Shameful.
Going back to New York is looking better everyday. Husband has written of California as too expensive, even though it’s more progressive than here. Le sigh.
ETA: good catch, Lizzy L. Should have scrolled thru, first. I stand by what I said about NY and CA, tho.
Ruckus
@ruemara:
This.
White acceptance. It will be OK, it’s always been OK. For them. They live in little bubbles, they can deny that life will change, because for them it really hasn’t. They never had to step one inch outside that bubble. They may not have to now. But if that bubble bursts they are going to be the first ones that cry, why didn’t you tell me. Many did, you did, I did, but the bubble protected them and they didn’t have to listen. I haven’t lived in that bubble since I was 12. My friends don’t live in that bubble, many of them can’t, but if they do they aren’t my friend. Like you they don’t have a magic bubble to protect them.
Mnemosyne
@EBT:
You’re here! I had a nightmare about you last night. Please please please know that we care about you and are worried about you. I know Sacto sucks, but you’re still better off in CA than in most other states.
I have a number for you to call: (877) 565-8860. It’s the Trans Lifeline and it’s specifically for transgender people. PLEASE call them and talk to someone. There is a lot of help available for you, especially in CA.
Enhanced Voting Techinques
@Kay: Obviously something is allowing Trump to play by a different set of rules – perhaps it’s the Russians, perhaps it rampaging racism and misogyny, more likely I think he’s a celebrity. Arnold Schwarzenegger pulled the very same thing in California – first the CalGOP shived Gray Davis over the energy crises the Republicans created and then Arnold pushed them out of the way to be governor. But that’s the thing, once the Republicans get over the shock, like with Arnold, they are going to be furious that Trump is a better cheat than they are.
Ruckus
@Jumbo with a 76:
Why do you think they will “phase” in cutting Medicare and gutting SS? The only reason they did that before was because they had opposition. They now have NO opposition. There is no reason for them to play the game at all, they own the game, the ball, the rules, everything. They won’t play nice because that’s not who they are and they no longer have to. And they know it. As much as I call them stupid, they really do understand opportunity when they see it. This is it, the very best opportunity they’ve had in 50 yrs. To think they will save any part of these programs if they don’t have to is naive.
Adria McDowell (formerly LurkerExtraordinaire)
@Ruckus: I disagree, but only slightly. If you have a military pension and TriCare, you will probably be okay. VA disability payments also.
God help them if they go after those. It’ll be like the Bonus Army on steroids.
Enhanced Voting Techinques
@Waldo: @ruemara:
My bet would be for the Republican congress to stonewall everyone of Trump’s proposals because of FREEDOM!!!! and try to seriously screw Medicare.
EBT
@Mnemosyne: I don’t mean in a suicidal way, but yeah I am adding this to my phone now.
catclub
@Omnes Omnibus:
For good or ill, I am much angrier at the non-voters. The same (essentially) 60M people who voted for Trump and Romney and McCain are
unchanged. The 10M people who voted for Obama and then did not vote at all, I just cannot understand.
Voter suppression works.
low-tech cyclist
@Kay:
This. A thousand times, this.
36 years after Reagan proved them wrong the first time, and with the Gingrich revolution of the mid-90s, GWB, and the Tea Party since then, not to mention their mancrush Paul Ryan’s budget, they never believe Republicans mean everything they say about tearing down successful Democratic accomplishments.
What IS it with our Washington political press corps, that they can’t see what’s right in front of their faces? I’m tired of the way they blithely ignore all sorts of GOP shit, and nitpick every Democrat to death.
catclub
@Adria McDowell (formerly LurkerExtraordinaire):
Sorry, baloney. The GOP kills VA benefits, the Democrats raise them. Those are former government employees, and with their expenses (but no benefits of them existing) not the key to any GOP constituency.
low-tech cyclist
And this means war. The Republicans are the fucking enemy, make no mistake about it. They hate Americans.
And all you white guys who voted for Trump because he’d shake things up? There you go. Are you happy? Because this was as predictable as the fucking sunrise, so you’d better be. This is your fault too. You made this possible. Fuckers.
Adria McDowell (formerly LurkerExtraordinaire)
@catclub: then there will be hell to pay. Iraq and A-Stan vets are not playing, and lots have PTSD. Shit will get ugly, reeeeeeaaaaal fast.
catclub
@Kay:
Those tweaks will include insurance companies charging extra (or not covering ) for pre-existing conditions – like the old days. Luckily, seniors on Medicare don’t have any of those.
SFAW
You should do stand-up, Doug.
catclub
@Adria McDowell (formerly LurkerExtraordinaire): we will just have to disagree here. The army is worshiped, but once they are out, they are expendable moochers. Heck, they are weak if they have PTSD – somebody told me that.
The US has LOOONG tradition of screwing veterans. WWII was the exception.
Ruckus
@Adria McDowell (formerly LurkerExtraordinaire):
You think so?
They don’t give 2 shits about the military or vets. They wear lapel pins and wave flags so that idiots will think they care, but they don’t. They already have cut funds for the VA. It’s 6% of the federal budget, you think it’s going to be held at that? It’s not. I already pay copays at the VA. This yr it’s over 10% of my income and the copay rates have gone up this yr.
Let me say this as loud as possible. THEY DON’T GIVE A FUCK ABOUT ANY OF US. Not vets, not olds, not youngs, not white, for sure not anyone of color, women, and on and on. They care about taxes, they care about their nice benefactors not paying any. But what they care most about is limiting government. They have motive, they have means and now they have opportunity. This crime is going to happen and there is nothing we can do to stop it. Any of us left may be able to rebuild it in 4 yrs, and that’s a very big maybe. Millions of people will be hurt, many will die, and they don’t give a fuck. Giving a fuck is not a blip on the edge of their radar screens.
This is what the end of a democracy looks like.
Radiumgirl
@WaterGirl: He can move on because he’s a white dude. Clueless
Ruckus
@catclub:
It really wasn’t. It was just that so many came home all at the same time that something had to be done. Most were young, with no job training for the real world, many had massive injuries and the country was at least grateful for them. It was as much basic economics as anything else. Like the economy, which we had one of and most other countries didn’t, we had won a war that wasn’t fought on our shores. Helping vets was a way to keep those factories going and taxes flowing to pay off that war. It took the last 8 yrs to even change the way the VA worked. Employees have told me how much worse it was before President Obama. OK they didn’t use his name but the timeline of when things changed was after he took office. The only republican to ever give a shit about vets was Ike. And these guys are not Ike. Not in any way shape or form.
Juice Box
@karen marie: Possibly. That’s how my husband qualifies.