I had something I wanted to say, but this guy said it better.
Once again for emphasis: none of us are free unless all of us are free. You could call it the principle America was founded on. It took us a while to live up to the idea. It took a long while to be honest. But by the late Obama years we got pretty close. I think most 21st century Americans would be hard pressed to disagree with the point if you phrase it that way.
You know what this week looks like to me? All the specters that King banished from polite society have started coming out of the woodwork. White supremacy has always been part of the weft and weave of the American tapestry but it flew far out the Overton window even by the time Nixon met Atwater. Those spirits always hated the closet. Nobody likes hiding or feeling ashamed. Frankly we should meditate on the precipitous fall of the confederate flag after the Roof shootings in Charleston. The speed at which the flag became anathema even shocked me. Wal-Mart ejected it. South Carolina’s legislature (!) ran from it. The haters’ political support abandoned them practically overnight after Roof was arrested. The floor just fell out under them. Trump must feel like water in the desert.
If they want to attack King then maybe we should answer with King. Dust off the old SNCC playbook. Right now the protests I see look more like a haphazard cry of inchoate rage than activism. It seems counterproductive. Hillary had a point about those baskets. You want the decent half to feel embarrassed about the shitheads, not drive them together by tarring every Trump voter as a hater or a nazi. You probably recognize this as our current strategy for dealing with difficult Muslim populations. When possible you want to fight with the reasonable ones against the jihadis.
How to stand up effectively? I have two suggestions, and the first one is easy. As I said before just look out for each other. Don’t bury your grief or deny it, let it drive you to do something productive. If you have some cash Donate to the ACLU, Planned Parenthood, SPLC, the ADL, whatever. Look for a chance to make someone’s life better. Wear a safety pin as a reminder to act if you see someone else in trouble. Volunteer for a group that needs it. Maybe just spend more time with your friends, family and neighbors. Ask for help if you need it. Listen to people. Hell, this is good life advice dressed up as a master plan. Growing an activist network that can be flexible, resilient and activate fast when needed is a happy externality.
The second thing I hope to see is smarter protesting. Folks, there is a difference between making change and cathartic release. Non-horrible Trump voters like modern civilization and the general idea of equal protection. Most of them are in denial about the rottens, but that does not mean they like white supremacy or bullying. Really, I am not crazy. The civil rights protests of the 60s would have been hopeless if most Americans were violent supremacists. It turns out that if you make the decision stark enough between equality and hateful, fearful violence, most people will choose equality. I get that leaderless, distributed, bottom-up activism is the thing now but I suggest we look back to some folks who left deep footprints in American history for tips. John Lewis is still around. We could do worse than check out how he did it, and maybe just ask him.
greengoblin
Just saw a story in the Seattle Times that Craigslist took down an add looking for activists to fight Trump policies. This is not going to be easy.
Tim F.
@greengoblin: Relax. The ad probably crossed some term of service or was filed in the wrong category, and we hardly need Craigslist. The digital world is swimming in social organizing apps, all the way from Facebook to encrypted Tor-based shit. And there is no substitute for people who know people who know people. That is exactly why I want people to build their personal networks out. It is a great way to work through grief, and it builds the kind of contact network that we will soon need.
Suzanne
I am musing on this today. I did all my political volunteering this year through my local Dem Party branch (LD18 represent!), and I now have Dems as my state senator and state rep. (Canvassing…..so much canvassing!) And Fontes beat Purcell for County Recorder, and Penzone beat Arpaio. So I suppose I should feel good that I was engaged locally. But now that this is not an election year, I would like to continue helping to make change. I need some guidance about how and where to direct my efforts, as I don’t have a great deal of time due to work and family obligations.
Thoughtful David
And who would a non-horrible Trump voter be, exactly?
WarMunchkin
Exactly this. There’s at least a politically, though not morally. difference between the basket of deplorables and the basket of persuadables. It is incredibly tempting to write off the persuadables by association – because how can they be anything less than deplorable if they voted for him? – but unless we get the votes over broad geographic areas, we won’t get states and the House back. Protesting without strategy is just building solidarity for the Trump voters instead of driving a wedge. It will make our job harder in 2018 and 2020.
debbie
I just got back from a long, suburban walk. No one’s taken their Hillary signs down. In fact, someone has a 6 to 8 foot banner strung across the second story of his house. Of the 3 Trumpers, 2 no longer have their signs out. I remember McCain and Romney signs staying out for months.
I’ve chosen to fool myself and believe that buyer’s remorse has set in.
SenyorDave
100% with the smarter protesting. At the same time I wish the Democrats would make a bigger issue over things that mean something. For example, Steve Bannon runs Breitbart, an explicitly racist, anti-semitic white supremacist website. What the hell is he doing involved with the president-elect as a senior advisor? Imagine if Obama had Jeremiah Wright as a senior advisor? I’d like to see Democrats make that an issue. Trump is a racist, don’t facilitate his racism.
greengoblin
@Tim F.: Craigslist has not said why it was taken down. Hannity complained according to the article. But point taken.
Tim F.
@WarMunchkin: The key point is that we don’t need to persuade them politically. They can hate abortion and want lower taxes and harsher border security. We only need to persuade them to defend 21st century civilization against wild eyed haters who think Trump is the second coming of Mussolini (to sidestep Godwin for a moment). I know plenty of Trump voters who are perfectly receptive to that specific point. Although, as Petraeus learned first (he wasn’t all bad), the job gets a lot harder if we call every one of them jihadi.
FlipYrWhig
@SenyorDave: People voting for Trump don’t care about racism. They think complaining about racism is “political correctness” and enjoy sticking it to politically correct people in ways that include “rolling coal” and voting Trump. That’s what the election was about.
debbie
@Suzanne:
Speaking of, do you think Joe’s gone off into the night, or will he be back?
Gimlet
@Thoughtful David:
And who would a non-horrible Trump voter be, exactly?
Family members and friends often.
Major Major Major Major
I absolutely agree. This was one of the things that drove me crazy about Occupy Wall Street. I don’t feel the right to opine too much about BLM but I generally feel the same way. Unfortunately these folks don’t even listen to Lewis.
T S
It’s good to be constructive. I am still getting the urge out of my system to yell “FUCK YOU, ASSHOLES!” to all you who were lashing out at “pantswetters” like me before the election, but I am definitely ready to put that behind after my catharsis as we band together for survival…because that is really what it has come down to.
Suzanne
@debbie: I am afraid that we haven’t heard the last of that bastard.
SenyorDave
@FlipYrWhig: I understand that. The point is a guy like Bannon should not be allowed anywhere near the White House. I don’t for second believe we are in a Nazi Germany situation, but I still think when you see a guy who promotes vicious racism and anti-semitism like you see on Breitbart, and he is a close confidant of the president-elect, it should be a BFD. The Democrats should make an issue of it.
Personally, I think the Democrats should be combative right from the start. I don’t see any gains from working with Trump, they’ll get rolled.
JPL
This is the sign I want to put out front
https://twitter.com/latimes/status/797289088151855108
@SenyorDave: Le Pen said she has been in contact with Steve to help with her campaign.
Ruviana
@Thoughtful David: This OP and this comment are a great place for me to repost this observation from John Scalzi. Just go read it.
Dr. Ronnie James, D.O.
@Thoughtful David: Philly mag did brief interviews with 3 local Trump voters: a 30-something Jewish businessman who figured Trump’s Jewish grandchildren excused the Anti-Semitic elements, a 50-something white contractor who felt “our status quo is too divided so, WTF, change the status quo” and a 61 yo African American woman who was distraught over Libya and then was like “….wait, Pence said *what* about LGBTQ?!?!…” So…aside from all 3 being walking talking “smdh”, maybe not “terrible” as much as misguided/ misinformed/ and maybe convincable in 4 years.
debbie
@JPL:
Check the comments on that Tweet.
Major Major Major Major
@Tim F.: Hillary and Obama tried the “he will destroy civilization” tack, and it didn’t quite work. I don’t know if it will make enough of a dent in such a polarized climate.
Tilda Swinton's Bald Cap
@Dr. Ronnie James, D.O.: Or just dumb but persuadable.
debbie
From Schooley:
People show you who they are.
Kryptik
The problem is, even that comment from Hillary had the good half immediately and reflexively defend the bad half with all abandon. Treating them with kid gloves and trying to appeal to their better nature immediately resulted in them diving for their worst natures and embracing common cause with the legitimate deplorables. In that case, it’s even worse than what we see with the Muslim populations v. jihadis, because at least you can see the genuine opposition against the jihadis even among those who mistrust Western intervention.
JMG
Pre-election polling and poli sci research indicated lack of information on public affairs was one of the strongest predictors for Trump support. Perhaps we should keep our rhetoric for internal purposes and do what we can to present facts on social media or conduct information campaigns on specific issues. Cable and broadcast news aren’t going to to it.
Cain
This. I know many decent people who probably voted to Trump. I didn’t unfriend them or anything like that. If you decide to do that then you’re only creating a worse situation because now you have no bridge to them to talk to them. Then what happens when you finally get around to voting to one of your candidates? We all have to take the long game now, and we need to win people back and we can only do that if we ourselves are not rigid.
We have our work set out for us. On Oregon Public Broadcasting, in the program Think Out Loud (brilliant program btw) asked Trump supporters why they voted for Trump. One of them actually put one of the reasons as too much political correctness. Now every non-white person probably interpret it as getting their racist flag on and say whatever the hell they want. But it could be for some set of them that they don’t want every thing they said interpreted as racist and that they feel restrained in expressing themselves. Maybe something we should think about. As a non-white I have always been open to having conversations and I never assume racism first. That might be harder for AA folks since they really have experienced generational racism. But it does help make that mind change to assume good things first. It releases our anger and taps down on our outrage. But getting back to the point, those are small shifts we can do, if people are willing and are able to do it.
Just realize that these voters are not the enemy. People like Kobach are, people who want to take away our voice. We ass fuck those guys with a rusty iron bar coated with glass. Make an example of them while reaching out to the masses.
Major Major Major Major
Trump voters are the same people who were lining up at Chick-Fil-A to spite-eat fried chicken.
Baud
Not that i disagree, Tim, but I have a sinking feeling we’re going to do that thing we do where we argue over strategy and tactics ad nauseum.
Emerald
@Major Major Major Major: Not only did the Occupy folks not listen to John Lewis, who went to them to help them organize, they drove him away.
They’re not for that official “organizing” stuff. Which is why they’re useless. Counterproductive, actually.
I have no doubt that John Lewis will have plenty to do with a new, real, non-violent campaign of resistance, however. Plus plenty of other folks who know how to do it, whom the Occupy folks didn’t want to have around their precious snowflake purity. (For “purity,” read “power for ME”)
Tenar Darell
I believe that yes, there are people who voted for “change” without understanding what they were signing up for. But the racism, misogyny, homophobia, xenophobia, & anti-semitism were right there up front in his campaign. (Some louder than others, but all there in the open). So the people who voted for that man were perfectly willing to ignore ALL OF THAT. Like Scalzi said, they may only have wanted HBO, but they bought & paid for Cinemax too. It’ll be a long time before I look at my fellow white people & not mistrust them. (This includes any of my conservative relatives who may not have voted for the orange cheeto, but may tell me to give him a chance).
ETA & my 91 year old father, who was a rock ribbed NE Republican, who grew up during the Depression & served in WWII, is in full agreement with me that we should not accept this as “normal”).
Baud
My two cents. People who think they can reach out to “good” Trump voters should just do it. It’s not for everyone.
Cain
@Major Major Major Major:
Right, because we attacked their beliefs, we would do the same and we do. Somebody fucks with our pro-choice option we go and we donate to planned parenthood. The difference is that they are misdirected because of the messaging they receive. We have to assume good intentions if we want to de-escalate. Someone has to do it. I’ve met many conservatives/republicans when I went door to door for Obama who asked if there is a way we could talk to each other. It can happen.
Major Major Major Major
@Baud: isn’t that basically what this post is for? Or do you mean more generally we’ll do that rather than organize.
Baud
@Major Major Major Major: The latter.
gorram
Uh….
Elie
I am still struggling with this. I was numb but now I feel a lot of anger. I truly just want to go somewhere else and leave these white people to themselves.
Make no mistake the role of the US in the world and its promise to those of us ranging from former slaves to refugees from injustice and hate – is gone. That requires trust and faith to believe and that is gone for me. I feel conned. If you thought you lived in a country that at least aspired to “with liberty and justice for all” -hahaha you were just kidding! Something in me has broken and I am surprised by it myself. I hope to find my way back some day but I am gone for now
Kay
The gas-lighting scares me. It’s so crazy to have a President who lies constantly:
He lies every day, as a matter of course, on issues big and small. Infuriating in a candidate but terrifying in a President.
The transition website has another part that should concern people. They say they are devoted to the Tenth Amendment. The Tenth Amendment is the one that says all power not expressly granted to the feds belong to the states.
That was one of the arguments against federal civil rights laws in the Jim Crow south. They were “tenthers” – they used the Tenth Amendment to argue against federal protections for black people.
Scary stuff!
How bizarre is it that this wealthy NYC family are signing onto Jim Crow era ideas. Would you have predicted that? I would have said this would come out of Alabama or Indiana. Probably Indiana :)
JPL
@debbie: I never check the comments. When in despair, stay away from comments is my mottto, and I’m in despair.
Trentrunner
According to Ryan Lizza, a shift of 55,000 votes in MI, PA, and WI, and Clinton wins.
In a voting population of +120M, this is a fucking rounding error.
So we don’t need to change a fucking position, or shift, or triangulate.
We don’t need to “reach out” or “resonate populism” or whatever.
We just need to continue to speak out what we know to be true, to organize, to protect the vulnerable, and…dare I say it…GOTFV.
SenyorDave
@Cain: If political correctness drew you too Trump I don’t really see much of a way to persuade these people. Because what he called being politically was racism in pretty much every case. He ran a white nationalist campaign. I honestly think most Trump voters voted on a racial basis, they just finally had a candidate who didn’t dog whistle. I think the Democrats need to focus on registration/ turn out. I want to see my donations go primarily to those efforts. White middle class voters who vote against their self interests? Fuck em’, its a waste of money to try to get them. I have zero sympathy for the OH WWC who voted for Tdoesn’t even have a refrigerator box to live in.rump, and they will continue to vote that way forever. The old refrigerator box thing, they’re just happy the “fill in a minority” next door
Major Major Major Major
@Cain: just an observation. And yes, some are reachable. I just don’t know how many. Obviously resources should be directed towards reaching those who can be reached.
How to do so? We currently have rage-fueled protests (or rage-adjacent non-organizations like BLM) taking up all the oxygen, which I think is getting us nowhere slowly.
Kansas had some state-level wins for the Dems this year. Let’s look at what they did.
Kryptik
@Cain:
But how many of those people, under that hem and haw about Political Correctness spurring their vote, have gone back and shown just how much they absolutely and truly despise their neighbor for being an ‘other’? How many, when reached out with an olive branch, have come out with the verbal daggers telling close friends that they can’t wait for their supposed ‘friends’ to ‘get the hell out of our country’?
A lot of these people have revealed their faces as unreachable no matter what olive branch we extend. What the hell can we do in the face of that? The number of truly reachable people has revealed itself to be almost prohibitively narrow.
Kay
Karen S.
@Cain:
That’s nice, but as an African American lesbian who is thankful for hard-fought marriage equality in the U.S., I’ll take a pass. I cannot get around the fact that people who voted for Trump, despite whatever economic anxiety they may have, at least tacitly approved of Trump’s misogyny, bigotry and homophobia by voting for him. I do not want people like that in my life, not now, not ever. It isn’t my job to reach out to them or educate them. Minorities in this country are always being called on to do that, and I will do not do that sort of heavy lifting anymore.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Nothing scary about the linked picture at all.
Major Major Major Major
I have no doubt that there are situational Dem voters of the “oh I’m fiscally conservative and socially liberal” bent who went for Trump because of “safe spaces” and “political correctness”. I know people who voted for Johnson because of that. I don’t know if there are enough to matter but they’re not unicorns.
Kay
@Trentrunner:
Agreed.
Repeating over and over that Trump has roused a sleeping giant with a huge victory is not only not true, it’s exactly what Trump wants us all to say and believe. I get why economic Lefties are doing it- they think it advances their issues- but it’s really not smart.
Carol
@SenyorDave: I’d like to see the democrats make an issue of anything at all. They have been shut up in a bunker for so long they really don’t know what they stand for.
Kryptik
@Karen S.:
A lot of this. No matter how much of those folks might not actually hold racist, misogynistic, or homophobic thoughts, by their support for Trump they show at the very least tacit tolerance for that kind of talk. It didn’t hurt their support for him, clearly didn’t affect their opinion for him. It really doesn’t matter how they might not personally believe it in their daily lives, they threw themselves behind a movement that will have that effect, told them they would have that effect, and proudly wore that on their sleeve. At some point, there is precious little tangible difference between supporting something with bigoted results and being a bigot yourself.
Major Major Major Major
@Kay: yes. This.
Trentrunner
@Karen S.: Yes, yes, and yes.
Since everyone will likely have to deal with Trump voters over the holidays, this post by the great John Scalzi will be helpful and useful.
Excerpt:
Iowa Old Lady
@Karen S.: Right. I have no way to know what’s in people’s hearts, so I confine myself to judging their words and actions, particularly as those words and actions affect other people. If they voted for an out-in-the-open, say-it-loud-say-it-clear racist, then that’s what I see.
Emerald
@Elie: That’s how I felt when I was gleefully pushing the California/blue states secession idea. I was angry, and I just wanted to walk away from the whole stew.
But we can’t. The vulnerable people stuck in the red states need us. They are our fellow Americans.
We need to give ourselves time to calm down and assess where we are, then work together to form some plan of action for resistance.
SenyorDave
Expand the base, don’t concentrate on persuading people who vote for a sexual predator, lifelong bigot, fledgling anti-semite. WWC has it so tough, they actually have to compete with working class people of color, they no longer get a free pass to the head of the line. trump promised a return to the head of the line.
Litany
@Trentrunner: I’m sorry, I’d respectfully disagree. I’ve recently moved away from being the “burn it all down” type of liberal who signs up for the circular firing squad, but this result should have never been close in the first place. If Hillary barely won against a candidate as flawed as Trump, it would be an embarrassment and a chilling reminder of the very real weaknesses of the Dems. That she lost to him is a catastrophe.
Timurid
I know a number of good and decent people who are Republicans.
Not one of them voted for Trump.
JMG
@Kay: Totally agree. The reachable Trump voters, to the extent they exist, are the people who took a flyer on a man who they felt was risky and very flawed out of dissatisfaction with the status quo. When they see the status quo either unchanged or getting worse in their own towns and lives, they are people to reach for. It probably would take a lot to get them to turn (people defend their bad decisions vigorously, I know I have), but if they do, it’ll be sudden.
We outnumber them. Not by much, but we do. Our thinking and planning must recognize that fact.
Also, it’s possible the real assholes within the Trump movement will alienate the less committed through their own words and deeds. Embarrassment is a powerful emotion, too.
Cain
@SenyorDave:
I don’t either, and perhaps serves as a way to wake people up. But what we do know is that we do need to address their concern as a matter of strategy because clearly the numbers are too close and as well there might be some bullshit with those voting boxes since they are owned by Diebold. So we need numbers, a positive message, and we need to address all those people who don’t have ids. We raise money to get these people ids.
We should be smarter than the other side, those guys are fucking pwning us. I’m not going to stand for that. That’s where I’m going to channel my rage.. a drive to win.
gogol's wife
@Timurid:
Same here. The one I know best voted for Clinton.
Corner Stone
@Kryptik:
Fuck them. Then they should jump in the basket. Nothing “good” about them.
Emerald
@Ruviana: Shorter version of Scalzi that I saw from some wise soul on Twitter:
It’s true that not all Trump voters are racists. However, 100% of them did not find racism to be disqualifying.
Kay
@Major Major Major Major:
I don’t have any problem with advocates using what they have- I am an advocate and I do it- but there’s facts and there’s advocacy and it’s fair game for advocates to pick and choose facts to focus on.
Everyone does this. THIS happened because YOU ignored MY issue. There’s nothing wrong with it but if you’re analyzing an election you have to look at something other than voters mysterious motives.
There’s some facts that get in the way of a 100% economic cause AND a 100% racist cause. Maybe it’s too soon to do cause and effect at all- emotions are running too high and we’re scared.
Mnemosyne
@Gimlet:
I’ve said here that I’ve been in a Facebook battle with my Trump-voting cousin since the election, and last night, I took the A Wrinkle in Time tack. For those who haven’t read the book, the young heroine rescues her younger brother from the villain’s mind control by … loving him. I told her that I loved her, and that I was sorry I had not spoken up earlier to try and stop her from making this bad choice. I told her that Trump was trying to sow division and hatred, and I invited her to put on a safety pin and put a halt to bullying of the people not like her wherever she sees it happening.
But I’ve been too chicken to go back and see if she replied.
Corner Stone
@Cain: Yeah. But we do not throw a fire bomb through their fucking Chik Fil A store.
Fuck this nonsense.
Corner Stone
@Cain:
No, you do not. You know people who voted Trump.
Cain
@JMG:
Exactly. So we don’t judge them for the previous vote, we build bridges. To do that, we do that by showing success stories. Do we have success stories that we can showcase about accomplishments we have done at the local level that we can talk about? For instance, maybe we can show some improvements we’ve done in Kansas once we were charge of things.
Trentrunner
@Litany: Understood. I’d argue that because the election was so close, it’s at best premature to discuss how WE need to change. Yes, that very closeness is appalling on its face, but I’d like to introduce you to my country, America, which had a fucking civil war over enslaving fellow human beings. More recently, I’d like you to remember 2008 and 2012, which we also won, handily.
I, too, want a thorough DNC personnel housecleaning. I want to bring up our best and most talented young TRUE Democrats to prepare them for the presidency. But I see absolutely ZERO need to try to meet bigots and small-government ignoramuses halfway on their issues. They are wrong. We are right.
Gimlet
It’s perfectly fine to point out to people who voted for racism, that indeed, this is what they voted for. And also that if owning up to the fact that they voted for racism is uncomfortable for them, they should take a moment to think about how bad it is for the targets of that racism, and how bad it has yet to get.
Perhaps it is the thought “political correctness” = racism. Maybe we need to define PC and the associated effects of moral scolding that accompany it. Applies to a lot of things including Global Warming.
Tenar Darell
Honestly I’d just like to figure out how to get a chunk of that ~49% of us that didn’t/couldn’t vote, including because of voter suppression, to the polls on a regular basis.
ETA Or, I agree with @SenyorDave:
Major Major Major Major
@Trentrunner: and we outnumber them.
Cain
@Corner Stone:
And we won’t. Ever. Were better than that.
Kay
@Corner Stone:
A lot of them don’t pay a lot of attention. It was a 20 year low turnout election. We were obsessed with it but that’s not normal. They didn’t like Clinton and they were vaguely aware of Trump – did you hear those people at the town halls? That’s how swing voters talk. You want to bash your head against a wall. Don’t give them too much credit. They say things like “I vote for the man not the Party” which isn’t how Congress works at all.
SenyorDave
@Cain: I agree about addressing the middle class concerns in general, but why do so many act like the only people who matter are the WWC? I saw John Legend yesterday on Bill Maher, and he had that question. I mean I understand that Trump is a bigoted SOB and ran on promising the WWC that they could go back to being the ones that matter (they see life as zero sum game, for them to get ahead others have to be left behind).
I am still so upset. My wife has a movement disorder, and for that POS combover fuckface von clownstick to bbe running this country makes me want to puke. I’m praying for an early heart attack, pence can’t be any worse.
Gvg
Well some are reachable because the reason they are racist is that’s how they were brought up. Storm front founders son went liberal in a recent article I read here. If no one was different than their family, we would never have made any progress. That guy was reached by a fellow Jewish college student reaching out as I recall.
On the other hand I have known plenty that have been reached out to many times and just got worse. So you have to pick and choose. Also I kind of think it needs to be both shunning and reaching out. Shunning first to shock their attention and then if it seems wise, selective reaching out.
I wouldn’t try reaching right now. Personally I am too angry and I can’t do it wisely, and I get the impression many here are even more raw than I am so….wait ok?
I am also waiting for Trumps actual first mistakes to figure out how the party should react. He is not a politician and that means he isn’t trained to react like the others. There are many bad things he could do first so I think we have to wait for him to actually do them before responding. We feel like not compromising at all. I think we will have a stronger hand if he starts several fights with different republican interests and individuals before we have to try and stop his first disasters. Try not to let the party unite behind him. That is a reason for our leaders to keep saying soothing pablum for now.
His nominations have potential to split his party. Also when ever one of his appointees try’s to do something he decides not to support. Remember how he kept undercutting his own spokesmen? He’ll be a nightmare to work for. Wonder how the diplomatic service will?
Corner Stone
@Trentrunner: Since everyone will likely have to deal with Trump voters over the holidays
Poopyman
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: That’s a pretty crappy Kylo Ren impersonation.
Major Major Major Major
@SenyorDave: the other thing is that we do address the needs of the white working class by addressing the needs of the working class. We do it all the time. We could be more pro labor (leave the question of labor’s efficacy in the modern world for another time) but keep in mind these are rust belt people who voted for Trump after the Dems saved the damn auto industry single handedly.
Davis X. Machina
@Trentrunner:
Yes! Yes we do! We need to be more like me! Change everything!
Baud
@Davis X. Machina: Splitter! We should be more like me.
Kryptik
@SenyorDave:
That’s been the constant klaxon call of this election from the talking heads pretty much since Wed.: WWC and only WWC votes matter, talk about them and only them, because this election proved everyone else doesn’t matter and can go kick shit in the gutter.
Elie
@Emerald:
I am still too angry. If I am a black or brown “other” living in a red state I would consider strongly moving to a blue state. To me there is no guarantee of safety in this country anywhere anymore. We have to count only on the intrnsic morality of those around us because the heart and structure that secured our safety through laws and regulation is quite fragile and at risk. Right now we have limited tools to stop this freight train. And its not just Trump but the entire Republican Party has demonstrated over and over its willingness to ignore and remove any barriers to their authoritarian goals. Back to your statement about saving red staters. How do we do that when our own safety is not assured? These fools want to continue to investigate Hillary. To criminalize her opposition as they would all of us.
Davis X. Machina
@SenyorDave:
Oh, yes he can…
Major Major Major Major
@Davis X. Machina: @Baud: surely we can agree we need to be more like somebody.
Applejinx
@Trentrunner:
Against Donald Trump, who himself suppressed the crap out of the Republican vote since they didn’t have a single bloody decent candidate to put up. Are you high? We are doing awesome because we did not do much worse than goddamn Donald Trump under investigation for rape allegations and run by the Russians and having to have his Twitter taken away from him?
I think your goals might be described as unambitious.
Are we going to aim for doing slightly BETTER than goddamn Donald Trump under investigation for rape allegations and run by the Russians and having to have his Twitter taken away from him? That will work great if we end up facing anything resembling a real candidate.
Corner Stone
@Kay: We have never had an election where there was essentially 100% name recognition for both candidates.
The media gave Trump $2B of free media. They skipped through his otherwise disqualifying statements but there were so many they showed up every week, if even for a blip.
They voted for Trump, and knew it.
GrandJury
@Cain: This was NOT a vote against the status quo. Most incumbent Republicans got re-elected. So let’s just dispense with this notion that it had anything to do with the status quo.
No, you cannot start splitting hairs and say that just applied to the Prez candidate. At minimum it waters down that argument.
lamh36
@debbie: i think it’s more like they rather hide it to surprise as backlash.
I had a coworker on wednesday who was ready to be so excited and happy and was too happy with Trump and thought he was gonna find a kindred spirit…but then he said some bullshit and a couple of folks jumped on his azz and next he’s all quiet and talking a bit less boastfully. I doubt he regrets his vote, he’s just back in that bigot closet at work cause he couldn’t find any kindred spirit
lamh36
Out of the mouth of babes…i’m here with Maddie and a lil over an hour ago she was lying down on my chest watching the Teen Titans episode. It was plot line hat involved George Washington and an “election”.
Out of the blue, Maddie says, “I don’t like Donald Trump”.
i just patted her back and said…”me neither, I don’t blame you…”
Litany
@Trentrunner: I 100% agree with that. There is much about the Dems that’s worth cherishing and protecting. We can’t sell out the truth for politics, that’s what they do.
Major Major Major Major
@Corner Stone: part of the problem with the postmortem will be that we have never had an election before where ANY of this shit
Davis X. Machina
@Major Major Major Major: Deal. I propose Fred Rogers
Major Major Major Major
@GrandJury: dispel with. You dispel with notions nowadays.
Bailey
@Kryptik:
I’d say the problem with Hillary’s ham-fisted “basket of deplorables” and then walk back to “no only half of them are deplorable” is that the actual voter never knew which half they were in. It was a terrible outreach strategy to voters.
Maybe a better approach is not so much to crucify those that are awful but to raise the profile of the vulnerable minority populations who are amazing? It may be easier to sort out who is who that way without calling everyone a jihadi.
Kryptik
@GrandJury:
Again, that’s where the whole ‘economic anxiety’ argument completely falls apart: most of these jackoffs in red states demanding ‘change’ voted in the same state-level and local-level GOP dipshits that helped get them into their holes as is, the only change was getting the swarthy black man out of the Oval Office and choosing the White Millionaire over the Bitch.
JPL
@Corner Stone: Thanksgiving my family will still be in mourning. I expect the feast to be smaller this year, and the conversation light or non existent.
Christmas Eve I normally have folks over for food and wine. That’s the one I’ll probably cancel.
NW Phil
All politics is local.
To get folks involved and voting you have to focus on local issues and the boring elections that go with them. Then it’s much easier to keep the lines of communications open for the big stuff. Your local Democratic party has it’s got hands full with the state/national races, you can’t expect them to work miracles.
Baud
@lamh36: Aw, man.
JPL
@lamh36: Do you think there is a chance of the democrat winning the Senate?
Elizabeth
@Suzanne: Keep showing up at LD18’s meetings. Are you a PC? Really work that precinct. Every single Dem should know you.
Darkrose
@Karen S.: Yes. This. I’m really not down with being anybody’s maid in this.
FDRLincoln
I’m really struggling with this one.
Trump voters are like the Good Germans who didn’t necessarily agree with Hitler’s anti-Jew rhetoric but supported him anyway, even after it became obvious that he was not joking. “Oh, I don’t agree that we should round up all the Jews, but you know, we really do need new highways and more jobs, so I support Hitler”.
At this point, in my mind there is no such thing as a good Trump voter. They are all tainted and I don’t want them in my life. I know this is wrong, but it is the way I feel.
Trentrunner
@Applejinx: My point was that we Dems don’t need to try to “move to the center” or otherwise triangulate toward the bigoted, racist views of the candidate who won the electoral college vote by a rounding error and lost the popular vote by (it’s looking like) ~2M votes.
That’s it. I think you were reading something into my post that wasn’t there. Please don’t do that. :)
Darkrose
@Bailey: Cool! Respectability politics! Maybe if we prove we’re the good ones white folks won’t hate us!
Dude, we just had eight years of a brilliant, accomplished, classy, loving husband and father as President. White voters chose to replace him with an ignorant, obnoxious, tacky-ass sexual predator and your answer is “We should highlight the good ones!” Really?
NoraLenderbee
I can’t seem to stop crying.
Corner Stone
@Major Major Major Major: I have been otherwise resisting the notion but I am more and more coming to agree with Malcom Nance’s assessment. That this is part of the greatest operational warfare effort Russia has ever attempted. Germany and France are next.
JMG
@JPL: I would never tell anyone how to feel, but IMO that might be a mistake. The need for joy and friendship is as acute as the need for sadness when bad things happen. You and yours will be better fighters next year if you let as much sunlight in as you can.
My daughter will be home from France for Christmas. She goes back the 26th and on the 27th we go to visit my mother in Florida. She’s 92. I can’t let these visits be downers because I’m moping about the damn election and President-elect Trump. That wouldn’t help anybody, least of all me.
Barbara
@Tim F.: I had a phone call yesterday with a client in a southern state who, I assume, normally votes Republican. He told me that he was not very politically oriented, but that, from his perspective, the worst thing for him is uncertainty and Trump brings a lot of uncertainty. My husband told me that one thing Republicans in Congress, and perhaps Trump himself, don’t realize is that most businesses have accepted core federal regulatory policies, and have to a large extent molded the way they do things to accommodate them. They really don’t want to fight another cold civil war with no idea of the outcome. Neither of these things is a moral position, but at the margins, they are where Trump is the most vulnerable. Just as Republicans are most vulnerable by trying to openly relitigate large aspects of the safety net, and especially Social Security and Medicare.
Redshift
@Bailey:
Yeah, no. It was “half” followed by “I shouldn’t have said half,” not “all” then “half.” And read the actual statement; other than that one line, the entire thing is a an appeal for understanding exactly like all the ones the feature writers were calling for later in the campaign. And it was at a private fundraiser; if it had been an “outreach strategy” it would have been a public speech.
Yeah, gaffes are going to get coverage, but it’s definitely part off the media problem that the only thing 99% of Americans ever heard about was one sentence.
Duke's Archives
@FDRLincoln: It’s that “petty bourgeoisie” bit. They’ve doomed us all; and that’s without even adding the Paris/climate change part.
Omnes Omnibus
@Major Major Major Major: Me?
Barbara
@NoraLenderbee: So sorry. I will repeat what I have said in other threads. I have made a mental health bargain with myself that I will avoid grieving in advance over what might happen to save my strength for coping what is actually laid on the table.
delphinium
@Tenar Darell: “Honestly I’d just like to figure out how to get a chunk of that ~49% of us that didn’t/couldn’t vote, including because of voter suppression, to the polls on a regular basis.”
Two of my co-workers who are life-long Republicans, (1 of whom is an NRA member) did not vote for Trump. They are decent people. I would love to be able to reach out to more people like them. I am not going to reach out to Trump voters. His hate-baiting was a fking neon sign with fireworks, no excuse for any “decent” person to have voted for him. There were other options.
NW Phil
@Corner Stone: Russia is going to regret this. A re-armed EU is more of a threat to them than the current situation where NATO relies heavily on the USA for backup. Eastern Europe is definitely going to push for a combined EU army now.
Kryptik
@Darkrose:
Obama is the perfect representative of respectability politics. He was brilliant, calm, treated people like adults, and worked to be EVERYONE’s president. He got treated like the black liberationist socia1list super-satan that ruled with a limp-wristed iron fist.
Respectability politics is a fucking scam.
JPL
@JMG: My daughter-in-laws parents are rabid Trumpers, and they would have to be on the invite list, since they have been for years.
With Kris Kobach on Trump’s team, there is the chance that even if you walk around the block, if you are brown you must carry your i.d Of course, a gun is fine. How often do you put your id in your pocket while walking your dog?
Darkrose
FYI the safety pin thing has already been co-opted. Posts going around on neonazi sites advising people to wear them and then fuck with people when they think they’re safe.
James E Powell
@Tim F.:
This is going to require a change in our side’s political culture and habits. There are some home truths that have to be recognized and among them is the fact that we may work for the same candidates, but we don’t really work together.
Cermet
Ironic but the small handed dick head is likely the more sane leading thug; congress will go off the rails and the dick head is the more likely (far too few times) to rein them in, some.
Baud
@Cermet: A possibility. In reality, no one really knows how it will play out.
Bailey
@Darkrose:
Okay, perhaps my wording was misunderstood. In short, I’d rather concentrate on the decency of all people than hammer away on how hideous other people are. I tend to find it more effective and also self-evident.
I realize that Obama has been pressed in all sorts of awful directions. Then again, he also has one of the highest approval rates of any president leaving office ever.
James E Powell
@FDRLincoln:
I feel exactly as you do except I do not think it is wrong to feel this way. It would be wrong to let Trump voters off the hook. It wasn’t like he snuck this one by them. They embraced him and everything he said. They can’t suddenly let go and act like they didn’t know and didn’t mean it.
debbie
@lamh36:
That is pretty much what my family has done. Internalize the gloating.
Bailey
@Redshift:
Yes, I’m sure there was more eloquence to mine from Mitt Romney’s 47% speech at a private fundraiser, too. He might have even had some larger point to make. However you slice it, though, the “deplorables” comment gave Trump voters a rallying cry.
I think the point of the front page post is to avoid that sort of broad characterization.
Elie
@Redshift:
I agree w Bailey though that statement was a huge mistake. It was true for sure but she should not have said even at a non public event. That said it underscores the fragility of our safety w each other. Trump called our people criminals and rapists but they are given permission to be outraged where our people are told that what he said is true
James E Powell
@Bailey:
And you still believe in the decency of all people. Sad.
msdc
@SenyorDave:
Clinton did. In August. The media never bit.
Baud
Fair enough. Any bankster or corporate CEO who wants to use their influence to help us fight Trumpism is welcome into the fold. No complaints, right?
@msdc: It probably cost her the election.
Mary G
I haven’t been brave enough to do it yet, but I have decided I will come to peace with my fears of Big Brother and advocate on Facebook and Twittter. I have a Facebook page but I rarely even look at it, and I have hardly ever tweeted.
I keep going back to Harry Potter:
My favorite movie is “Harold and Maude” and I have always believed that I started as Harold and hope to end up Maude. I am 60 years old and I’m not nearly far enough along. Along the continuum, I am aiming for Neville Longbottom now.
My home address is all over the net from the 90s, and I am scared of being doxxed and physically threatened. A woman in a wheelchair with crippled hands and wrists fears a mob of good old boys with guns. I am scared of being sued by Trump or a Trumpista and losing my home and savings. I’m scared of Charles Johnson (the ginger one, not the LGF one) discovering things I’ve done that I’m ashamed of and telling the world.
But I am more scared of losing my soul by standing by and not doing all I can.
Like some of you have said, I plan to do it with love and positivity as much as possible. If Trump says something right, like keeping the pre-existing conditions and under-26 clauses from Obamacare, I am going to grit my teeth and praise him for it. I’m going to pass on stories of people who have had their lives saved by Obamacare. I will write about my own journey with disability and why Social Security and Medicare have saved my life and why, though it was enough for me, it is not nearly enough for someone who’s younger and doesn’t have my education and resources and support from people who love me and care for me even though they aren’t my blood family.
This “secret Hillary Facebook thing” is unproductive. (Here, I originally wrote bullshit. Positivity will take time to be fully effected.) It’s preaching to the converted. Stuff comes to the news media from Facebook and Twitter, unfortunately. People who never open a paper or watch a Sunday morning show are on Facebook.
I’m not expecting that the little pebbles I throw into the ocean of social media will have much effect, but it might, and I owe it to myself and my country and my planet to try.
ETA: I am not saying that everyone should do this. If you have a job and children, it may not be safe.
delphinium
I’d also rather see what we can do about gerrymandering. Once again Dems had the higher vote totals for the Senate and House but we still lost both. Maybe it’s time for a t-shirt that says “I voted but all I got was this sh1tty gerrymander.”
Barbara
I see that Clinton is blaming Comey. It’s outrageous what Comey did, and maybe she has internal polling to support that, but even if she does, I think the point is that the candidate with with a long history and weak favorability will be vulnerable to a shock like that.
I am not dissing her as a candidate. I was among her biggest supporters. I am trying to learn lessons going forward even if that seems pretty feeble right now. It feels better than howling in pain.
Baud
@Mary G: Very inspirational.
Cain
@Corner Stone:
That’s not your determination to make, it’s mine when it comes to the people I know. I’m the one who made the determination that they are decent. Some of these people have helped me get my job, help me make a success of myself. I’m not throwing that away that easily. That said, a lot of my conservative friends rejected Trump. So my circle of conservative friends are not at all fans of Trump. We have some pockets here and there, but none of them are happy about the election.
Mary G
@Major Major Major Major: NO. “Dispel with” needs to die right now. It makes my teeth hurt.
Yoda dog
@Timurid: this. I have respect for, and would try to reach out to any and all conservatives that did not vote monster. Frankly, I have more feels for them right now than any 3rd party voter or stay-at-home dem.
But fuck trump voters. Fuck them all. Fuck them forever. That’s where I am with this right now.
Tilda Swinton's Bald Cap
@Barbara: I saw somewhere on the tweet machine where they do have internal polling that shows a Comey influence.
Corner Stone
@Cain: They made the determination themselves. Hide from it if you want.
kirbster
The protests around Trump Tower and Trump’s stated preference to spend more time in NYC instead of the White House has me wondering how the Secret Service is going to be able to guard him long-term in a Manhattan highrise with other residents and commercial enterprises on the premises. Mar-A-Lago would be easier to secure, although it could no longer function as a resort open to the public. Trump Tower is going to become the number one terrorist target on earth, and protecting it 24/7/365 is going to be a security nightmare for the feds and the city (to say nothing of the expense to the taxpayers).
Corner Stone
@Barbara:
Do you have a link for this I can check out? Thanks
Jim, Foolish Literalist
LA Times Op-Ed editor: Obama should clean up Trump’s racist mess
Barbara
@delphinium: The place to start is with states where there is some prospect of making a change. The two most likely in the near term are Virginia (8-3 in favor of Rs even though something like 12 out of the 15 last statewide elections have gone to Democrats) and Pennsylvania, which is 13-6 in favor of Rs, even though it is at best a 50/50 state for Republicans (as in, this year). Between those states, there might be 5 or 6 pick ups. Even if that seems paltry, we aren’t going to get there overnight and this is where we need to start. Other states may become feasible if Obama stays true to what he talked about and becomes the voice of voter participation in every election.
Barbara
@Corner Stone: New York Times front page article right now, by Chozick. Would post link but you know what that’s like on this site.
Corner Stone
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Where is Trump’s statement? His press conference? Any reaction to the 200+ reported incidents of terroristic hate crimes and the ongoing protests?
Will he ever, just on his own? I say probably nope.
InternetDragons
@FDRLincoln:
I’ve struggled a lot over a couple of acquaintances that voted for Trump. I have to admit to myself that no matter what they claim their reasons were for voting for him, I don’t accept any of those reasons as valid. One of those folks is really mad at me today because she says she had no idea Trump was supported by white supremacists, and now she’s really offended that I said that her vote supported racism.
Even if someone barely listened to the news and never read anything political, there is no excuse for not knowing what Trump stands for. If you didn’t know about the KKK or the anti-Semitism, you had to know about the pussy-grabbing. If by some miracle you didn’t know about that, you probably heard that he called Mexican immigrants rapists. If you didn’t know about that, there were countless other incidents that shone a freaking spotlight on what he’s really about. If you didn’t know about ANY of it, then honestly you shouldn’t be voting at all because you have zero information and you’re voting based on…on what, I don’t know.
If you knew about any ONE of those things and still voted for him, then that tells me all I need to know about you. Either you agreed with him or you didn’t think it mattered.
I’ll be reaching out to people in preparation for the next election, but it won’t be Trump voters. Maybe it’s too soon. Maybe I am just too angry. But I haven’t seen a single, solitary reason to be tolerant of their excuses or rationalizations for voting for him. There is plenty of other organizing work to be done without worrying about whether I am going to hurt some Trump voter’s feelings.
mai naem mobile
This may be a stupid idea and possibly madly expensive but is it legal and/or possible for the local Democratic Party precincts to either pay people or have volunteers stand ins in areas with long lines. I posted my experience with early voting in AZ – 2.5 hr wait which I didn’t have time for. I ended up voting on election day but I have to believe there are people where they just can’t wait for several hours bUT you call them on their cell or whatever when it looks like it’s hitting under an hour.
Applejinx
@Trentrunner:
There, we super agree. I am all for a rainbow strategy, both morally and tactically. The thing I keep banging on around here is the incredible, set-in-stone assumption that we have to reject any form of economic analysis or economic framing to what’s happened, when I think that’s THE excuse for what’s happened and like Scalzi puts it, racism is the Cinemax people got because they wanted HBO and talked themselves into the idea that Cinemax isn’t so bad and doesn’t matter so much.
If anything, anti-racism, anti-sexism, anti-prejudice saved us from a far worse beating. Yes, I think it could have been far worse if we hadn’t pointedly aligned ourselves with (very popular) cultural inclusiveness. If we hedged on that we would have been STOMPED, and we mustn’t back down on those things now or we are quite literally history.
Mary G
@Corner Stone: Hillary Clinton blames one Comey letter for stopping momentum and the other for turning out Trump voters.
WaPo link
Barbara
@Corner Stone: Steve Bannon will keep him in line. And Jared and Ivanka will maintain their position of utter denial or outright justification of such incidents — that they are not actually racist, or that Trump himself is not racist, as they have done all along.
Cain
@SenyorDave:
And that is an outrage, and that we need to fight continuously and help make Trump understand that healthcare is a problem. I know that Obama has already talked to Trump about it. Unlike the Republican party, this guy is all over the place and he might actually align himself to random things like this. He doesn’t give a shit about any of the political party, it’s all about him.
Corner Stone
@Barbara: Thanks. For anyone interested in clicking to NYT
FWIW I think it’s hard to argue with this conclusion.
“There are lots of reasons why an election like this is not successful,” Mrs. Clinton said, according to a donor who relayed the remarks. But, she added, “our analysis is that Comey’s letter raising doubts that were groundless, baseless, proven to be, stopped our momentum.”
Mrs. Clinton said a second letter from Mr. Comey, clearing her once again, which came two days before Election Day, had been even more damaging. In that letter, Mr. Comey said an examination of a new trove of emails, which had been found on the computer of Anthony D. Weiner, the estranged husband of one of her top aides, did not cause him to change his earlier conclusion that Mrs. Clinton should face no charges over her handling of classified information.”.
mai naem mobile
@kirbster: I guarantee you the grifter in chief will make sure the tax payers pay for a fully occupied Mar A Lago if it can’t be secured as a resort, to compensate him. The fucker had the SS paying him for seats on his Trump plane for protecting his ugly orange ass.
Baud
@Corner Stone: Why was the second letter more damaging?
Davis X. Machina
@JPL: I had no (large, ramifying, Irish) family Christmas for three years at the height of busing in Boston. A family with deep Southie roots, literally with aunts on one side of the street throwing stones, and uncles on the other trying to get kids safely into buses, between the stones.
Not fun. My heart goes out to you.
schrodinger's cat
@Corner Stone: FBI is the American Stasi now. We are now Putin’s client state. Thanks NYT.
Suffragete City elftx
@Ruviana:
I have been saying on FB that some of his voters may not be bigoted, racist, misogynistic, xenophobic, homophobic etc but they sure had no problem voting for one.
It’s not getting the best reception.
Corner Stone
@Baud: The argument is that the second letter brought up the issue again but the wording saying FBI had no reason to change the previous decision made Trump voters furious that the fix was in and the FBI was in the bag to rig the election for HRC. IOW, the first one made potential HRC voters stop and say WTF? And the second made Trump voters grab their torches, pitchforks and head to the voting booth in full strength to fight against the rigged system.
Applejinx
@Cain:
I know people who fight to rescue people from addiction, let dreadfully damaged and dangerous addicts into their lives and hearts. I have been hugged by people whom I know know were Trump voters because I and they were together struggling to fight a terrible thing. I’ve hugged and tried to comfort a guy with whom I stood and talked for literally hours with a suffering addict all tangled up in his head. The Trump guy was his sponsor but neither of us were able to get through and the addict committed suicide, and I was there with the Trump guy, patiently talking him through it as he rode out the guilt of not being able to carry the message to this addict suicide guy.
If you (Corner Stone, not Cain) think I’m gonna write off every Trump voter in my life, you’re totally fucking off the reservation. People are complicated and cannot be boiled down to team jerseys.
Corner Stone
@Suffragete City elftx: The KKK endorsed him. Trump did not refute that endorsement.
Fin.
Baud
@Corner Stone: I agree with the conclusion on the first letter, but I’d need to see more evidence of the effect of the second letter. But if it’s true, then kudos to Trump voters and shame on those potential Hillary voters who fell for the con.
I still hope Obama fires Comey. People say Trump’s person will be worse, but nothing stops Trump from firing Comey anyway.
Cain
@NW Phil:
I was reading somewhere that Putin is already unhappy because he wants certainty and Trump is a gigantic wild card. Nobody knows what he is going to do. The man lies everyday, so there is no indication what his real position is on anything. We are playing national level calvinball right now. Nobody likes that. I would suspect that if there is that much uncertainty, NATIO will simply disband and the EU will take care of itself. The republicans are going to get apoplectic because that is a loss of stature and influence. Once the EU decides that, they don’t need leadership from the U.S. Hell, they might even decide that the dollar is not worth having either. The war that will happen between Republicans and Trump on this will be entertaining if it wasn’t tragic.
debbie
@Barbara:
I agree with you. You can’t win when half the room’s filled with haters.
Mary G
@Baud: From the Wapo article:
Cain
@JPL:
Maybe the gun is the id?! Imagine that. I bet urban areas would have a fun time of it. Of course, seeing black people armed might get the racist crowd get all hot and bothered. Amirite?
debbie
@Baud:
I think it’s more that the second letter didn’t erase the first one. And I think that was intentional.
Corner Stone
He boasted about grabbing women by the puzzy! And then had a dozen+ come forward saying variants of, Yep, that’s what he did to me.
Decent person: Well, we are all flawed. But he tells it like it is.
Avatar: If you believe he tells it like it is then…he wants to ban an entire religious group, deport 11M Mexicans, has bragged about sexually assaulting women because he has the power to get away with it, wants to torture people, kill the families of suspected terrorists, sue the free press, nuke enemies and proliferate nukes around the world, extort our NATO allies, start a trade war with China, and…damn..I’m out of breath on the rest of what he has said he will do.
Decent person: Awww, that’s just campaign talk! Now where’s muh ballot?
Mary G
@Applejinx: Wow. Powerful story. Thanks for helping the helper.
Corner Stone
@Applejinx: I don’t give a shit what you do or do not do. You fucking moron. Everyone here who has read anything you have posted this election season knows what you are about. Now go forth and sin no more, child.
Cain
@Baud:
Because it seemed like she was getting away with it again. That energized the Trump folks and put more doubt on the candidate. I’m afraid that Comey has damanged the entire process, and he needs to be accountable that he did not control his people. The FBI is no longer a trusted institution in my opinion.
Applejinx
@Mary G: Not difficult. He’s my brother in recovery, and there isn’t one of them that wouldn’t help me even if they thought my political allegiences were the fucking Antichrist (and clearly, some of ’em do!) and vice versa.
If we don’t put recovery first, we die. If we don’t put togetherness first, we die. I think there’s a lot of politicians who could stand to learn from that, and it’s not because I classed him as a helper. We are brothers. Family.
Baud
@Cain: Again, shame on us. Trump voters respond correctly to false coverup allegations, and our voters respond incorrectly to abuse of power directed at our candidate.
japa21
My wife and I are Catholic and see gets daily readings and meditations sent to her. After she reacd the meditation of the day she asked me to read it and see if I got the same thigng out of it as she did. I di. She wonders if this was planned.
What is even more interesting is the title of the writing this was taken from, Manual for Spiritual warfare
LAC
@Karen S.: THIS A THOUSAND TIMES!
delphinium
@Barbara: Thanks for this Barbara. I live in a reliable blue state so would like to put some effort into other states where we can first start to make a difference. I will keep VA and PA in mind.
Cain
@Baud:
Yep. And more importantly, fuck the FBI. BTW, I know some of my friends who are independent but for them the whole Clinton foundation was shady. I didn’t really engage him since he didn’t vote for Trump but voted for Johnson. He was smart enough to figure out that this guy is a clusterfuck, but he definitely didn’t like Clinton.
Elizabeth
The biggest problem has been the media. Dems have never had the media but this cycle was the worst ever. They went along with anything that let them bash Clinton and never bothered to stick with anything with Trump and they could have.
They showed his empty podium while she was giving speeches. They refused to talk about anything positive for her and spent all of their time going over minute flaws. Then when Comey threw his weight on the scale, they focused directly on that and didn’t let up.
Clinton isn’t wrong to blame Comey. As I have said else where: Clinton had to fight Bernie (fair enough), Donald (still part of the process), sexism, racism, voter suppression, the media, Putin, the FBI and Wikileaks. Everything after the actual candidates was incredibly unfair and especially the stuff after voter suppression, simply not something anyone had experienced before.
She did actually beat them in the popular vote. Where she didn’t was in three states, two of which had confusing voter restrictions like ID that poll workers weren’t clear on.
Going forward: if we decide to stick with having someone who is “pure” ideologically as the chair of the DNC we will lose. We need someone who focuses on the nuts and bolts of campaigning.
The local district meetings are starting to happen and voting for the state committee members has already started. March 1 is the vote for the new DNC chair.
That is, of course, if we haven’t turned into a fully functional authoritarian police state with all of the trimmings. I have some doubts about that happening due to the massive amount of libertarianism that our country is filled with but it still could happen.
japa21
@Cain: Anybody who either voted third party or chose not to vote basically said they didn’t have a problem with Trump in the WH.
schrodinger's cat
@Elizabeth: Yes the media gored and swift boated her. They tried to do the same to Obama too, remember the Rev. Wright business? The fluffing of Sarah Palin? This the third Democratic scalp that the media has claimed.
Jeffro
@Ruviana: That Scalzi piece really is a great analogy – thanks!
As for this from Tim:
I couldn’t agree more – spinning our wheels in grief, denial, anger doesn’t do anything at all. Action eases the anxiety.
While I’m all for smarter protesting, I dunno that too many Trump folks are going to stop fellow Trumpistas in full bullying (or worse) mode. The ‘great sorting’ of America seems to have already taken place, and everyone seems to have already taken sides. As the Scalzi piece notes, they were ok signing on for Cinemax in order to get their HBO…they fell in line for Trump, and they’ll continue to keep their mouths shut whlle the worst elements in the Trump Tea Party do their thing.
By ‘smarter protesting’, I’d like to see more actions that a) actually get something accomplished, like voter-registration drives and b) are joyful and set a great example to our fellow Americans. Have your local Democratic party sponsor a blood drive, throw a block party (complete with registration forms), engage in all sorts of community building and celebrating activities. Do a book drive for the neighborhood kids and/or school. Call the media ahead of time and wear some D clothing while you’re doing it. Even if you decide to do a boycott of a local hard-right business (or a major corporation), get some press, tell people why you’re doing it (instead of doing it in silence), and give them a neutral or pro-D alternative to shop at.
I could go on and on, but you get the point. We’re going to have to walk AND chew gum here. No time for wallowing in anxiety – we need action. And as long as we’re taking action, we might as well enjoy ourselves and our time with neighbors too.
Cain
@Karen S.:
And I would never ask you to. Not everyone can accept the things I’m saying or want to. Some of us can play the roles of diplomat or outreach or whatever. Do what you need to do to maintain your balance and stature. If that means throwing out people out of your lives, then do that. All I ask is that you use that emotional trauma, embrace it, channel it to build a better party and help maintain the wins we have so far as much as you can. But more importantly – heal.
If they manage to shut down things like gay marriage this country is going to know that things can be taken away and that we must ever be vigilant. Gay marriage is accepted by more than 50% in this country and its support continues to grow, it is a losing proposition. But by all means, “please proceed..”
Elizabeth
I remember the Rev. Wright business but the overall theme wasn’t “this means this person is utterly unfit to hold office.” It was “Gosh, darn, I hope this nice black man doesn’t believe any of it.”
gene108
@SenyorDave:
As Democrats do not own their own media outlets, unlike conservatives, there is a strong media firewall between Democratic messaging and the people.
Obama gave speech after speech, in his first term, that was utterly ignored by the media and thus the broader public.
If Democrats want to get the message out, they need to find ways around the MSM and still be able to reach the older voters or poorer voters, who did not turn out, who are not as plugged into social media as the kids these days.
Bard the Grim
@Trentrunner: Re the shift of 55k votes giving Hillary the win. Yeah, a tactical victory that the Reps would claim was rigged. Perhaps good enough this one time for just the Presidency but we need strategic victories; we need the Senate and/or House or, as for the past 8 years, very little will get done, the Reps will say gov’t is broken (because they did their damnedest to break it), and too many people will be angry and lash out with the votes. Better policies are the reason we thinking people vote for the Dems but the voters who decide elections do not vote rationally. We need simple, optimistic, catchy messages (one or two) that resonate with their fee-fees to get them on our side. Demonizing the other side works for the Repugs but it’s not how Dems get voters, nor should it be.
Cain
@Emerald:
I have a far more devious plan than secession. Republicans are always going on about ‘states rights’ and ceding more power to the states so that those in red states can do all the pillaging. But that cuts both ways. The entire west coast is blue, and it is by far the biggest economic zones we have. I want them to fall into that trap so that we can build a coalition of blue states and make a lot more stringent set of rules. More than that, we’ll also make sure that we don’t pay into federal teat of which all those lovely red states depend on. After all they depend on the blue states for money. We’ll deny them that cash, make them figure out how to balance their budget on their own without help from the federal government.
Major Major Major Major
@Mary G: sarcasm.
@Mary G: I’m a member of the secret Facebook group. It’s nice. I’m glad people have a safe space to talk about this stuff. I also have a strong liberal voice on Facebook and Twitter. Not everybody is lucky enough to be able to do the latter.
Emerald
@Elie:
We hang together so as not to hang separately.
We’ll just have to play it by ear. I’m wearing my safety pin. I don’t know what’s going to happen, but if I see someone harassing a vulnerable person I hope I will have the courage at least to tell them to stop. That may be enough: a stranger intervening quietly. As we learned from the photo of trump with Obama the other day, if you look bigotry in the face it often won’t look back.
You might consider coming to California. Our legislature put out a statement the other day that ended with:
You are not alone. Remember that Hillary got more votes than the shitgibbon. By a lot.
Baud
@Major Major Major Major: What’s been the reaction to all the crazy Facebook bro friends you used to report on. Still douchy or horrified?
Baud
@Cain: I’m skeptical mass income tax evasion is going to catch on.
ETA: The rest of us aren’t Trump.
Emerald
@Cain: That is indeed nicely devious, and a tasty side effect of secession.
I don’t see how you do it without secession though.
Major Major Major Major
@Cain: California is to environmental regulations as Texas is to textbooks.
@Baud: They’re in full “I told you so” Thomas Frank mode.
Baud
@Major Major Major Major: Figures.
Major Major Major Major
@Baud: it’s why I’m punching back so hard here. It’s safer than further alienating people I might need to, you know, actually see ever.
ETA: love you all except some of you! You know who you are!
swbarnes2
Have any minorities endorsed this safety pin thing? Because right now, it seems like a thing to help white people feel like they are helping without actually doing anything. I’d be happy to do it, when I hear some AA or Latino sources say “Yeah, it’s kind of comforting seeing safety pins around.”
Emerald
BTW, I want that MLK quotation as a bumper sticker.
Baud
@Major Major Major Major: Another reason virtual people > real people.
Major Major Major Major
@swbarnes2: I’ve only seen white folks do it in Facebook, overwhelmingly straight too. It’s a nice sentiment though.
gene108
@Cain:
50% of the folks, who approve of gay marrriage are not spread evenly around the country.
Still remember the map, from May 2012, when NC voted on an amendment to ban gay marriage. Th college towns voted for gay marriage by varying margins. The non-college towns / rural areas voted 80% or 90% in favor of banning gay marriage.
It’s probably still a wedge issue in large geographic areas of the country.
Those are areas Democrats need to gain some traction in, in order to win back the House and Senate.
We just have to find issues more pressing than gay marriage or banning abortion to appeal to reachable people there, but I have no idea what those issues are.
Emerald
@swbarnes2: Well I’m gonna wear one until I hear differently. If nothing else, I get to identify with a side in this fight.
If minorities think it’s stupid, then I will listen and take it off. I’m an old glow-in-the-dark white lady. What do I know? I just want to do something.
Major Major Major Major
@Baud: well, Baud! is at least.
schrodinger's cat
@Emerald: Safety pin, paper clip, whatever, how do I know that you are not an alt-righter in camouflage?
Major Major Major Major
@schrodinger’s cat: she just said. She’s a lady.
James E Powell
@Corner Stone:
And let’s not forget that between the two letters was a week of “leaks” or real leaks from the FBI, one claiming that agents had the evidence to indict Clinton over something with the Clinton Foundation, but the director was holding it back.
schrodinger's cat
@Major Major Major Major: Are all alties, male? Didn’t 53% of white women vote for the grabber?
ETA: To clarify, I am not saying that Emerald or any other safety pin wearer is an alt-rightie. But a random person wearing a safety pin may or may not necessarily make me feel safe. Sorry, not feeling very trusting this week.
schrodinger's cat
Posting again, since I am not allowed to edit my comment:
@Major Major Major Major: Are all alties, male? Didn’t 53% of white women vote for the grabber?
ETA: To clarify, I am not saying that Emerald or any other safety pin wearer is an alt-rightie. But a random person wearing a safety pin may or may not necessarily make me feel safe. Sorry, not feeling very trusting this week.
jenn
@Jeffro: I love your “smarter protesting” suggestions. Thank you!
Major Major Major Major
@schrodinger’s cat: hey I hear you. But most Trump voters aren’t alt-right types, and those are overwhelmingly male.
Kay
@Corner Stone:
That’s really interesting. I wish he would have the basic decency to resign. He has no credibility. For God’s sake just go already. Can one person make one small sacrifice on behalf of the country? What possible good can come out of him hanging on? We all know he’s assured employment for life among the grifters on the Right. He’ll be fine.
I’d actually like a thorough review of FBI conduct during his term. I think his deliberate and repeated interference in an election calls his whole tenure into question. I’d like an independent review of his work. There could be people in prison who don’t belong there because of him, or people who should have been investigated and weren’t.
Barbara
@delphinium: delphinium, if blue states were gerrymandered the way red states are the balance of power in Congress would be a lot closer. New York is pretty well apportioned the way it votes statewide (like 66/33), but others are weighted towards +R — meaning that they have more Republican districts than is justified by statewide popular vote. Those are the places to start.
schrodinger's cat
@Kay: You should be the next Democratic Party chair, your on the ground knowledge is invaluable and you were right all along.
schrodinger's cat
@Barbara: Democrats are playing namby pamby cricket with a tennis ball and Republicans are playing bodyline with real cricket ball (which can kill you or grievously injure you, if you don’t know what you are doing)
schrodinger's cat
@Major Major Major Major: May be but I know enough women IRL who normally vote D but didn’t because HRC is a bitch (according to them, not me)
katep
Well I am off for 2 week’s at my son’s house to meet my new granddaughter. I read about all these people having issues with their parents or in-laws, I have a problem with my son. This 64 year old white woman is still processing her grief (and not well by the way) and my son is a total Trump guy. Nothing to do with hate or racism, Trump is going to bring manufacturing back, according to him.What a load of crap. And to top it off, my son is a high school grad who has his own business and has been incredible successful. No pain for him the last 8 years. So i am super excited about te trip yet dreading part of it. My daughter ( master’s degree works in poor urban school district) plans on having conversation with him before I get there, warning him about causing a family rift. I don’t get anyone backing that a**hole. but a young person who has thrived? hard to believe i raised him.
Cain
@japa21:
or maybe they believed the polls and decided to put in a protest vote. It happened in brexit, it can happen here. Let’s not rush to judge that quickly. There are all kinds of reasons. But regardless, we need to look forward.
Adria McDowell (formerly LurkerExtraordinaire)
You know, one of the charges leveled at post-WWII Germans was that many saw what was going on with their Jewish friends and neighbors, but they didn’t speak up or stop Hitler. I realize that there is somewhat of an element of self-preservation there (especially as Hitler consolidated power and had more and more minions to do his bidding), but if that charge can be leveled at the Germans, then it’s a good enough charge for Trump voters. (And people who voted third party). Fascism needs to be stopped in its tracks, not waffled around with.
Kay
@schrodinger’s cat:
It’s so incredibly selfish for him to stay on. He can’t remain in that job. He destroyed his own credibility.
Cain
@gene108:
That’s because Republican messaging is bombastic, we all react to it. It’s outrageous, it creates controversy. We’re all goody two shoes talking about hope and change and all that stuff or boring policy stuff. We need to find some way to re-package our messaging so it is more interesting.
Applejinx
@schrodinger’s cat: I think it’s a really bad idea to try and set up abstracted symbols representing ‘safe refuges’ when it’s in view of the alt-right. I’m tempted to try and wear one but I’m an old pissy-looking bearded white male, six foot tall and over two hundred pounds, and the idea of ME normalizing ‘hey threatened kid! get in my van, I have a safety pin!’ is beyond fucked up.
I don’t have a van, BTW :)
Don’t set up un-secret codes to help total strangers. Make FRIENDS. If you think you see somebody in trouble, make FRIENDS. Say ‘what’s up?’ Especially if you share gender or race with the person who seems in trouble.
I have spent well over twenty years in meetings, seeking out and talking to newcomers while other people enjoyed ‘fellowship’ meaning they already had friends and didn’t need to make more. I’m a total nerd and don’t place fellowship above my nerdly pursuits, which ironically gives me a much better batting average of making friends. I know people who lose their shit when they see me, hug me and tell me I saved their lives, I was the guy, I was the one who talked to them and convinced them they could stay clean. All because I’m a friendless nerd willing to make friends when we share something.
Make friends. Forget the safety pin, it’s too easily tainted. Make friends.
Suzanne
@Elizabeth: No, I just volunteer. Canvassing, phone calls, pamphlets, etc. I have a more-than-full-time job and family responsibilities, plus I do need some sanity-restoring activities, but I definitely get involved. They all know my name, based on all the calls for volunteering I get.
Morzer
@Trentrunner:
That’s crazy advice. Clinton’s campaign was mush-mouthed on far too many issues that matter to voters – and we won’t win them back by just offering more of the same. We need a clear, convincing economic program, we need real answers to collapsing communities – and we need to do a lot better than telling voters that we have a website with all our wonderful policies on it. We need to make the link between electing a president and electing a House and Senate to work with that person. We need to punch back hard on Republican dishonesty, corruption, bigotry and sexual abuse. We can’t keep doing the same old bumbling Democratic party thing where we expect voters to recognize our decency and competence. We have to rebuild from the ground up and win locally, at state level and nationally. Time’s running out, guys, and we’ve put off the reckoning with the rot in our party for too long already.
Felonius Monk
@Kay:
This guy seems somewhat unprincipled, so selfishness isn’t a deterrent to him. Besides, he’s one of the boys now. Helped them win an election. Now has cred. He ain’t going nowhere unless PBO fires him and that isn’t likely.
Cain
@gene108:
That something worth thinking about. That said, we aren’t going to let these guys stop gay marriage. We do have some firewalls against that. We just need to make sure that we overwhelm a different kind of messaging for the rural areas and to tone down messaging on gay marriage and save them for the urban areas. Targeted messaging for those areas. Again, we need to talk about successes in other states. That’s much harder to fight against when dealing with Republicans. They’ll bring up gay marriage as wedge issues and in those rural areas should ignore it and keep talking about economics.
But one thing for sure, we really do need to figure out how to deal with blue collar jobs. It is an existential threat to all of us not just the rust belt. Even white collar jobs are in danger in the coming decades as we improve on efficiency.
mai naem mobile
@Baud: I don’t care if this is legal or not,especially after Wikileaks,I hope Obama, Clinton and Koskinen (sp?) all have copies of Trump’s full long form tax returns for multiple years. I would be hanging onto it as some blackmail/oppo research.
Emerald
@schrodinger’s cat: Oh NO!
Ya got me!
LAC
@Elizabeth: and “gosh darn, the mean black man said something that hurt my white person feelings. Never mind that there was some truth in it. I hope funny name nice guy is not too blackidy black and can reassure me because isn’t that they are supposed to do?”
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@katep: when I was growing up, my parents belonged to the second-tier country club in our leafy suburb, made up mostly of upper-middle class people who had grown up working class, first in their family to go to college, lawyers, doctors, insurance agents etc. I remember a lot of my dad’s friends were big on Perot, they saw themselves in him. He was gonna run the country like a business, common sense, waste fraud and abuse, etc.
mai naem mobile
@Cain: if you want to get the MSMs attention on negative Trump stuff you pick stupid petty stuff. These are also good for Facebook stuff. Like the cost of Ivankas inauguration dress. Or the cost of protecting Ivankas family when her husband is so rich. Barron’s $180 Caviar moisturizer. The $60k Shitgibbon spends annually on his hair. The cost of daily/multi weekly runs to NYC by Shitgibbon. I remember back in’10 a coworker was bitching about Obama vacation to Hawaii. Dimwit didn’t know Obama was from Hawaii.
James E Powell
@Morzer:
I think maybe there’s some misunderstanding. What Trentrunner described & referred to is the Clinton Way. It’s what causes mush mouth. We need to reject not only the constant Democrats need to be more like Republicans bullshit, we need to reject temporizing and apologizing.
James E Powell
@mai naem mobile:
That stuff never seems to bother Republicans.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@Thoughtful David:
Some who just woke up to the fact that Pence is an impechment vote away from the presidency.
mai naem mobile
@James E Powell: I think if you frame it in the way of ‘us taxpayers are paying for it’ it does. I sincerely believe one of the reasons we finally managed to get rid of Sheriff Joe Arpaio in AZ is because the county has spent $50M defending him in his racial profiling case. People understand you can do a lot of other stuff with fifty million dollars.
Major Major Major Major
If this election had gone two points differently in four states everybody would be talking about how the Republican Party had nuked itself and needed a fundamental reconstruction.
NoraLenderbee
@Barbara: Thank you, Barbara. At this point I’m still crying for what has happened, not what might happen. This is going to take a long time to process.
James E Powell
Question, gathered friends, is this a bad idea?
Anti-Trump protest in Los Angeles.
James E Powell
@Major Major Major Major:
With respect, I disagree. If it had gone two points the other way in four states NYT, WaPo, and everyone on the shows would be talking about how Hillary barely won against a completely unqualified clown and how she needs to reach out to right wingers and religious fanatics and stop devoting so much attention to black people and stop doing an apology tour and . . . you get the idea.
And Paul Ryan would be appointing the chair-creatures for six or seven new investigations in to emails, the Foundation, Bill’s travel, Chelsea’s daily activities . . . you get the idea.
James E Powell
@schrodinger’s cat:
Me too. I know several women like that. College-educated white suburban married & unmarried. I was surprised at the vehement condemnation of her as a person, as if she had done something to them personally. And usually about some non-policy thing. More than one told me that they hated her because they knew the only reason she stuck with Bill after the Monic business was to further her own ambitions. I don’t get it.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@James E Powell: I don’t think peaceful protests are a bad idea, thought I”m not sure of their usefulness. I like Jeffro’s ideas @Jeffro: , if you’re going to gather these massive groups of people do gather, give it a purpose.
NotoriousJRT
@Thoughtful David:
This is with what I struggle.
WereBear
I once met a lawyer whose secretary of long-standing lost her life savings in one of those Nigerian email scams. She knew how international banking worked, she had seen scams close up, and yet she fell for it.
Because she heard something she wanted to hear so very badly the rest of her brains fell out.
That’s about how charitable I can be about Trump voters. Some of them heard something that made everything else fall out of their heads. Something that no one else would ever or have ever told them: because it is impossible.
But they want it so much they felt compelled to reach for it.
Of course, there always is a downside to falling for a con. And, once again, some of them are going to find that out. Maybe even have some serious regrets.
If so, I’ll listen.
Corner Stone
@NotoriousJRT: Zero.
Matt
Trumpkins should be held to the same standard (if not more so) regarding violence in the name of Dear Leader that they insist Muslims should be held to when IS attacks.
Mnemosyne
@schrodinger’s cat:
You don’t, but … in some ways, I’m not wearing it for you. I’m wearing it with my fellow non-racist white people. And if the alt-righters take it over and think I’m one of them when I wear it, they will hear hear from me that they can go fuck themselves with a rusty chainsaw.
I’m actually considering going out to the craft store and getting some really big safety pins. Maybe a kilt pin. Fuck you, alt-righters — you stole the election, you don’t get to steal my meaningless symbol, too.
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@Mnemosyne:
My friend just told me she’s ordering 2 inch long sterling silver safety pins, and I’m finding out the details. I’ll share when I find out more. They’re $60.
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@katep:
“nothing to do with hate or racism”.
We see him.
Elizabeth
@Suzanne: Alright. I still think being a PC would have helped but I understand.
Mnemosyne
@the Conster, la Citoyenne:
Thanks! I’m also considering getting alphabet beads to go on my kilt pin and spell out “Fuck Trump.” Maybe one that says “Screw Trump” or “I Hate Trump” for more family-oriented occasions.
As Adam would say, they’re trying to co-opt our symbol to shrink the gray zone and divide us further from each other. Fuck that. They can’t stop the signal.
schrodinger's cat
@the Conster, la Citoyenne: Yeah, why not I am sure Ivanka can introduce a line of platinum safety pins studded with diamonds.
Mnemosyne
@schrodinger’s cat:
If it wasn’t a powerful symbol, they wouldn’t be trying to steal it from us. The mere fact that they’re trying to steal it says to me that it’s working.
schrodinger's cat
@Mnemosyne: I need something more concrete than mere symbolism to deal with this seismic shift in the political landscape.
Mnemosyne
@schrodinger’s cat:
Concrete is also happening, but symbolism can mobilize people to work harder on the concrete.
Also, to a large extent, this is a fight between racist and non-racist white people. The racists are trying to prevent the non-racists from reaching out to other people. If you want to ignore it, you absolutely can.
Mnemosyne
@schrodinger’s cat:
And in case it’s not clear, I’m back at the “anger” stage of my grief. Fuck all these fucking fucks and their fuckery. I’m going to take our country back from them, and give them a boot to the ass while I’m at it.
Dog Dawg Damn
Everyone get MACE.
It’s legal. And it can protect you if you do get attacked. As a gay man, and avid hiker, I carry it nearly everywhere. I’ve been in too many close calls to go without it.
J R in WV
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
That’s a photo of a fat, sick, shitstain coward cop intent on committing crimes under cover of law and afraid of being ID’s in the process of committing those crimes. He intends to beat peaceful demonstrators and isn’t willing to do so without complete anonymity.
That’s the birth of the extralegal BlackShirt goonsquad intended to support the Fascist Dictatorship we are looking at. It may be intended to be Navy Blue, but at night it IS the Blackshirts, right out of 1935 Italy or Germany.
J R in WV
@Litany:
She didn’t lose to him at all, she won the popular vote by over half a million votes. She lost in the Electoral college, where rural states have a fixed-in advantage based upon fears during the creation of the Constitution of cities becoming able to out vote the good rural farmer founders of the nation.
A shift in as little as 55,000 votes in three states would have changed the outcome of the election, not a landslide even if Trump HAD won the popular vote, which he lost be a much larger margin than W Bush did in 2000.
Trump has no Mandate at all, having won what is essentially either a rounding error sized vote, or benefited from a long-planned voter fraud job committed by life-long Republican racists.