TS says:
November 12, 2016 at 8:28 am (Edit)2008 – Republicans lost the house, the senate and the presidency – they then proceed to impede in any way possible (with the help of a few dems) anything that the President tried to do. They stated it was their goal and they voted 100% in unison. The Media helped them with their non stop attacks on the new President – and the support of the birthers.
Democrats now need to stop talking about why and how & who won the vote and what is wrong with the electoral college & who should lead the party & how they can attract the undesirables. Democrats should be working as a united group to impede each and every thing this government wants to do. Don’t assume they can just “do it” – didn’t work that way in 2009/10.
This lot have NO idea what the President does – nor how he does it. Time to work non stop to show them up every hour of every day.
WereBear says:
November 12, 2016 at 9:46 am (Edit)@Enhanced Voting Techniques: What are Republicans? CUT TAXES AND SERVICES.
What are Democrats? TAKE CARE OF PEOPLE.
There. Done. You’re welcome.
New tag: Election 2018. Should get a lot of use, I suspect.
Major Major Major Major
I think I’m okay with scorched-earth opposition. Even the relatively few sane things Il Douche wants to do like his infrastructure proposal are thinly-veiled attempts to sell the nation’s wealth to his subsidiaries and friends. If economics are truly what people care about, a la Bernie’s op-Ed, then people like Bernie should refuse to work with them on ANYTHING and make them own this recession.
Ian
While i wholeheartedly agree this should be the approach we take, this is not what liberal/centrist voters want. Our voters want to live in a country where we can find common ground. Republican voters do not.
Yutsano
Midterms need to be figured out. We also need to get state houses back. The ONLY thing that might save us is that the Republicans have to govern now.
TaMara (HFG)
Heads up – there will be a writer’s group tomorrow, just to try to get back to some center where good prevails.
The only good thing about the a ferret-head presidency/rethug control is that is should unleash the progressives. No more coddling these fuckers. If you don’t believe in science, or caring for the poor, or believe there should be tax breaks for rich/corps on the backs of the middle and poorer classes, you are welcome to those beliefs, but you no longer get to drag this country down with you.
You get to sit in the remedial corner while the grownups get about the business of caring for the planet, the people and making the world a better place.
Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (Formerly Mumphrey, et al.)
I wonder what the Very Serious People who said pretty much nothing when Republicans voted against everything and anything the Democrats put forth just to throw sand in the gears would have to say about Democrats doing the same thing. Surely they would say nothing at all, right? Sauce for the goose, and all, right? Surely, they’d never hold Democrats to another standard than what they held Republicans, too? Right?
Baud
@Ian: Agree. What will our voters do when the media tsks-tsks Democrats from not acquiescing to Trump? This election shows that many of our side are soft.
schrodinger's cat
@Baud: Soft in the head, that is. Hillary was not pure enough for them.
liberal
@Baud: one of the commenters at LawyersGunsAndMoney said we just can’t break any norms in response to Republicans doing so.
Sigh.
Kryptik
@liberal:
My worry is that it really is a matter of “can’t” rather than “shouldn’t”. Remember, IOKIYAR.
Baud
@schrodinger’s cat: There’s the pure. But there’s also a lot of non junkies who simply absorb what the media tells them. And other comfortable people who don’t want to be in conflict with their GOP friends and family.
EBT
@TaMara (HFG): If deadbeat donnie had a ferrets cute overbite he would be that much more likable.
Baud
@liberal: the slippery slope is one only republicans can slide down.
msdc
@Ian:
Then they should have fucking voted for it instead of staying home in 2010, 2014, and now 2016.
McConnell and company left us a blueprint for how to obstruct a government and profit from it. It’s a pretty simple blueprint, actually: the public blames the party in power if they don’t get all their ponies and unicorns within six months. Add in the fractures between Trump and the GOP establishment and we should have ample opportunities to obstruct them and, like the fella says, make them pay for it.
Major Major Major Major
@TaMara (HFG): Oh, when is it?
Gator90
To any American Muslim who might happen to read this comment, please know that the vast majority of American Jews stand with you as your brothers and sisters and will not accept or tolerate the persecution and discrimination likely to be coming your way. We’ve been there.
EBT
Someone else decided to be sane because we couldn’t.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-37965392
raven
@msdc: What makes you think democrats have the stones to do this?
bear88
I can only speak for myself, but I will only support Democrats who vote against every Trump proposal and every Trump nominee. There is no reason to compromise. (Don’t talk to me about the filibuster; the Republicans can take that away.) It will be their government. I’m not interested in charming Donald Trump, getting him to see things our way on certain issues. He is, at best, a useful idiot of the Russians. He was promised war crimes. He has proposed racist, misogynistic policies that defy the Constitution, common decency, or both.
The Republicans will do horrible damage, with or without the cooperation of any Democrats. If there are free elections going forward, something I do not automatically assume, the Republicans need to own all of it. I’m not interested in Vichy Democrats who try to cut deals. They can be primaried.
mai naem mobile
I saw a blurb somewhere that McConnell wants to keep the fillibuster??? I don’t know if this is some head fake play or a trap or ‘sincere.’ I am wondering if you keep the fillibuster, do the Demo get blamed for a recession or terrorist attack or whatever occurs, for using it or do you let the fillibuster go and let the GOP own everything. Of course, you could have the fillibuster and not use it and have the MSM blame you for not using it because the Demo are always supposed to be the adults.
Hal
The definition of Trump
Major Major Major Major
@raven: Certainly not history, but it doesn’t mean they shouldn’t do it, and we shouldn’t pressure them to do it.
raven
@Major Major Major Major: Roger that.
Baud
@mai naem mobile: There is a certain power in the filibuster for everyone. I can see why he wants to keep it. Not sure what will happen there.
Pogonip
I hope that the next president, whoever that may be (electoral college hasn’t weighed in yet), will have the wisdom to help achieve a peaceful divorce between the United States of Canada and Jesusland. I don’t want it to happen violently.
I hope Cole puts up another house installment soon.
I hope the Leonids don’t get clouded out here in West Deplorable as they have the past few years.
I hope I can make up my mind whether I want to deal with litter boxes again. I came within a hair (so to speak) of bringing home 2 very sweet kittens today, but I thought “That’s 20 more years of poop…20 more years of poop…” [Well, you always hope it’s that long.]
That is all.
AliceBlue
@schrodinger’s cat:
I made the mistake of checking in on DailyKos. Christ on a cheeseburger. There are people over there who are ready to draw and quarter Hillary. Someone even brought up Benghazi.
Dadadadadadada
Hey, Juicer frontpagers. I went to two rallies yesterday and today, and I have some photos. I can send them to you if you like. Just tell me where.
greennotGreen
@Pogonip: Litter Genie is your friend.
Baud
@AliceBlue: That’s how they are. I never go there anymore.
The left is not our friend.
Dadadadadadada
@Gator90: Sighted at an anti-Trump rally today (inexact quote): Jews Oppose Trump. #We’veSeenThisBefore
Major Major Major Major
@Baud: Maybe Yertle wants the Dems to save his ass by obstructing Trump’s agenda since he knows it would be ruinous.
@AliceBlue: Yeah, I might have to give up on them. To be honest they’ve been nuts (the diaries at least) ever since St. Bernard declared.
Baud
@Major Major Major Major: I think it also gives him room to negotiate with a crazy House.
khead
@raven:
It’s gonna be like trying to herd my cats. Still, gotta try.
greennotGreen
I actually don’t think we should repeat the Republicans’ obstructive tactics, or at least their goal. Their goal was first and foremost to deny Obama any political victory. So instead of working with him and the Dems to improve the ACA which was originally a Republican’s idea, they did everything in their power to ruin it.
Our goal should be the good of the country. If, by some miracle, President Voldermoron renegotiates a trade deal that’s good for the U.S. and doesn’t harm the environment and doesn’t depend on draining the blood of little Asian children to make beauty creams, we should support it. The good of the country.
I think the chance of his supporting anything that will actually help the country instead of send it on its way down the tubes is so remote that in practice what I’m proposing is no different than what the Republicans did, but the intent isn’t the same.
mai naem mobile
I know this is old but i really think Trump should be harassed about his tax return. Somebody needs to ask him late Dec/early Jan for his tax return. It needs to be a drumbeat. There is no way an audit is going on that long. I don’t think there is an audit anyway. But there will be a treasure trove of stuff in that return.
Pogonip
@greennotGreen: What is it? We haven’t had a cat in ages, not up on all the new stuff.
Other than the litter boxes. we’re ideal cat people: we don’t care if they scratch the sofa, it’s old anyway; we don’t mind waking up with animals wrapped around our heads; we don’t mind playing fetch-the-paper-wad or chase-the-laser-pointer for an hour or so; we don’t mind being supervised while doing household tasks. And one of the kittens was part Siamese so it would probably be into supervising. That little ball of fluff had the raspiest, Siamese-iest meow I’ve ever heard. If I’d taken it and it had turned out to be female, I’d have named it Brenda Lee.
gogol's wife
@greennotGreen:
That’s how I feel. There’s a teensy chance that he wants some kind of legacy and we can capitalize on that.
Hate crimes are happening on my campus. It’s very scary what he has unleashed.
gogol's wife
@mai naem mobile:
I get the impression the media is too cowed to ask him about anything. We’ll see.
Major Major Major Major
@Baud: Good point, he’ll need that.
khead
@Pogonip:
Litter Genie sucks. Just bag the litter waste and put it in the garbage.
And do that adoption thing. Kittehs need a home.
WarMunchkin
I can’t watch comedy shows anymore. The laughter all seems forced. Trump isn’t satirizable anymore, for me.
Also, I strongly disagree with an obstructionist strategy. I want Democrats to have my fucking back and make sure that whatever goes through that rancid sludgepit known as the Republican Congress of the United States of America doesn’t destroy minority communities and income. If that means obstructing specific bills, fine – but it might not. Sometimes it means amending legislation to shield us. Have our backs.
Michael Bersin
Photos from Kansas City.
Anti-Trump rally in downtown Kansas City – November 12, 2016
There were signs, there was diversity, there were speeches, there were police, there was a drone, there were cheers, there were tears.
Sarah, Proud and Tall
@Dadadadadadada:
You could send Anne Laurie a message from the Contact a Front Pager thingy on the front page. She’s our most dedicated Open Threader, and I suspect she’d be delighted to hear from you.
Major Major Major Major
@efgoldman: I wish people would stop saying that. The victims won’t.
Dog Dawg Damn
We can’t find common ground with them.
If Trump gets Democrats on board for a popular infrastructure bill that goes through and revives the economy, HE WILL USE THAT POLITICAL CAPITAL TO KILL AND HURT PEOPLE.
That is Fascism 101 and any of you who are still thinking we can split the baby need to get woken up. Full Resistance. No compromise. Primary anyone who doesn’t HOLD THE LINE.
msdc
@WarMunchkin:
In other words, you want them to obstruct everything the GOP will propose.
Major Major Major Major
@Dog Dawg Damn: A billion times this. Trump is not normal and I will not be treating anything he does as normal until I see good evidence to the contrary.
Patricia Kayden
@Ian: I’m liberal and I don’t want Democrats rolling over. I’d prefer a united front against Trump. I’m sick of spineless Democrats. If Democrats expect to take back the Senate in 2018, they must not partake in any Republican foolishness like entitlement cuts. Take a page from Republicans and filibuster every chance they get to stop or slow down Trump’s agenda.
bear88
@greennotGreen:
I get that, and I would normally agree. We’re not the GOP, et cetera, don’t oppose everything and everyone mindlessly just because it comes from the other party. But honestly, there’s no real reaosn to cooperate with a war crimes-promising, Russia-friendly, racist, misogynist leader who neither understands nor seems to care about the usual constraints of the Constitution.
Besides, the Democratic Party doesn’t matter. The Republicans can do everything on their own, and there is little reason to do anything but blame them for everything that goes wrong and say the voters were betrayed. If Trump brings prosperity and industrial jobs back to the Midwest, he will win re-election anyway.
Pogonip
@khead: Oh, they’ll get one, especially Brenda Lee and her, or his, equally sweet cagemates. This is a local cat rescue, at the pet shop every weekend, which keeps the cats in foster homes until they get adopted or the foster owner falls in love, whichever comes first. No one goes to the gas chamber.
Dog Dawg Damn
Tea Party has shown us the path. It’s up to us to organize to pull it off.
Can’t wait for the summertime town halls. We Will Be There.
Major Major Major Major
Would even a 2010-sized wave get us the Senate in 2018? Man, this sucks.
WarMunchkin
@msdc: No, I want us to modify their shit. If they want to ruin the lives of their own constituents, fine. Don’t fucking touch ours.
Omnes Omnibus
@Dog Dawg Damn: @Major Major Major Major: Yes.
Baud
@bear88:
What makes you think this is remotely possible?
Major Major Major Major
Keep in mind that the president doesn’t introduce legislation, so even if Trump says “I want a trillion dollars of deficit-financed infrastructure spending on public works”, the actual bill that’s going to hit the floor is something Paul Ryan thinks is a pretty neat idea. Remember immigration reform? With the exception of keep-the-lights-on stuff, I don’t foresee a situation where there’s a bill worth passing that will have to lean on Dem votes to do so.
schrodinger's cat
deleted
schrodinger's cat
@Baud: More like a global recession with the tariffs he is proposing. Hoot-Smalley 2.0 and we will have another Great Depression.
Baud
@schrodinger’s cat: I can’t see the GOP Congress enacting that. But who knows?
enplaned
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/11/12/the-advertising-decisions-that-helped-doom-hillary-clinton/
Washington Post article on Clinton campaign failing to spend advertising $$$ in the last few weeks in the states she lost narrowly. Instead, she was swinging for the fences by spending $$$ in states she didn’t come close to winning.
This was not a well-run campaign. Goddamn, I gave her maximum cash and more-or-less bullied my parents into doing the same. The right thing to do, but it would be nice to think her campaign would have had more of a clue.
Omnes Omnibus
@WarMunchkin: I don’t want our hands on bills that hurt people. If we negotiate the deportee policy down to “Only males aged 18-45,” I say no. This isn’t shit to play with. This, they did build. Let them own it. Fuck them.
Major Major Major Major
@Baud: Like I said the other day, our saving grace may be John McCain’s ego (which is formidable!).
Patricia Kayden
@Dog Dawg Damn: Amen. This is war. No need to be civil with the other side which regularly demonizes Democratic leaders like President Obama. Keep in mind that Trump won partially because of Republican voter suppression, Russian interference and FBI bias. No need to play nice.
schrodinger's cat
@enplaned: Please go and bash Hillary at some other website. She lost, you gloated, now move on.
khead
@Baud:
I’ve already started a file for articles and data under “number of coal jobs in Nov 2016” for later use.
Major Major Major Major
@enplaned: We use polls to direct resources. Polls showed her with a comfortable and unmoving lead in those states. They were wrong.
Baud
@Major Major Major Major: I also doubt many GOPers think he’s going to be their nominee for a second term. There will be jockeying.
Pogonip
I would still like to hear some Litter Genie reviews: so far all I’ve seen is one Yea and one Nay but nothing detailed.
schrodinger's cat
@Baud: The intra-party fighting may be the only saving grace. We will see.
Baud
@schrodinger’s cat: Agree.
Dog Dawg Damn
Already wrote a letter to my new Senator Kamala Harris. Going to tweak it for other representatives. We need to jam phones when the time comes and remind them that we are watching. I know this blog is very good about that stuff.
Also think #DumpChuck would be a nice trending hashtag to capture the mood of the awakened base. We need them to be more afraid of us than they are of the Trumpkins.
Major Major Major Major
@Dog Dawg Damn: Given that California seems to have declared total war, I hope we can count on her. Thanks for the reminder to write. (A letter, I know, not an email.)
Baud
@Dog Dawg Damn:
Schumer? That’s a dumb idea. Why are you attacking him?
Mnemosyne
@Ian:
You can be positive, polite, and obstructionist all at the same time. Remember the black activists at lunch counters throughout the South patiently and peacefully staying seated as white counter-protesters heaped abuse on them. Pictures like that really did help turn the tide.
Dog Dawg Damn
@Major Major Major Major: Does anyone know of any activist groups organizing in Bay Area, Sacramento, or NorCal in general? (I live up in the woods, but travel down there frequently.) Would like to get involved, but not keen on just marching.
Omnes Omnibus
@Mnemosyne: I prefer not to.
Mnemosyne
@enplaned:
Link in the thread above: 41,000 Wisconsin Obama voters from 2012 were not allowed to vote in 2016 because of the tightened voter ID restrictions.
Trump’s current margin of victory there is 27,000.
But, sure, it was aaaalllll Hillary’s fault. No need to look at anything else.
evap
@Pogonip: I love my litter genie. I highly recommend them.
Omnes Omnibus
@Mnemosyne: In fucking Milwaukee.
Mary G
@Omnes Omnibus: I think we should go along with things we want, like infrastructure, but not for free. Ask for a new VRA or something like that in addition.
Major Major Major Major
@Omnes Omnibus: ok, Bartleby.
Baud
The thing about obstructing or not is that many things won’t be Trump initiatives, but Ryan or McConnell. Trump doesn’t strike me as a driven policy person.
Major Major Major Major
@Mary G: this is literally how fascists begin to co-opt liberals.
Pogonip
@evap: Another Yea. How does it work and what do you like best, and least, about it?
Omnes Omnibus
@Mary G: Okay. But i don’t trust these bastards, so I want our shit first. Give us a new VRA; we will vote for these particular infrastructure bill.
p.a.
We have to be hard. They are now beyond ‘usual evil’ (h/t Dumbledore). We can’t do anything to soften their incompetence. Total noncooperation. The Constitution and the progress of the last several generations is at stake. If their supporters can’t learn (and they can’t) they have to be kicked back into apathy. And yes it sucks; lots of people will be hurt.
It would be lovely to ask for legislative quid pro quos, but without the SC it’s all smoke and mirrors.
mai naem mobile
The way to fight the GOP in Congress is to ask for something that you know they aren’t going to give you. Something that is popular and polls well. $15 minimum wage,mandatory paid leave,universal pre-K,therapy animals for vets.. whatever It has to be something the GOP isn’t offering on that legislation. It has to be your idea and it has to be ridiculously expensive for their business supporters that you won’t get it. No compromise. It gives you an excuse to vote against the legislation and you can sit there and say that the GOP is indeed against puppies and kittens.
greennotGreen
@Pogonip: I like my Litter Genie. Yes, the refill bags are kind of expensive, but it eliminates the need to bag and carry out the used litter every day, and there’s no odor.The convenience is important to me since my cats live downstairs and the trash cans are upstairs – fewer trips carrying poop.
I can’t imagine a home without pets. Mine are so important to me, especially since I’m the only human. When you come home to a house with no pets, it’s just a dead, empty shell containing inanimate objects. Pets fill it with life…and the occasional hair ball.
Mnemosyne
@Gator90:
One of my friends at work wants to yank her cousin-in-law’s Jewish card. Apparently she’s a Hasid and voted for Trump because he hates Muslims, too.
CaseyL
Since this is an open thread: any Seattle-area BJers feel like getting together? I’d like us to talk about local actions, evaluating the State legislature and what kind of initiatives we might want to put forward. Like Dog Dawg Damn, I’m not one for marching, but I want to Do Something.
Omnes Omnibus
OT: Watching Roman Holiday on a movie channel. Audrey Hepburn is simply luminous.
mai naem mobile
@Baud: if I was working at the NIH I would be coming up with some multi billion dollar research proposal for male pattern baldness and send it off directly to President Camacho. That’s one policy he will spend a lot of time researching.
CaseyL
@mai naem mobile: You must not have been around the last time the GOP owned Congress. Democratic proposals never even made it to a committee hearing, much less a vote, much less a floor debate. The only legislation that will be proposed and debated is what the GOP wants proposed and debated.
raven
@Omnes Omnibus: Watching Iowa in a slobber knocker with Michigan.
p.a.
Oh yeah, open thread. Some BlueX plans give substantial discounts for Y membership. Check it out.
Major Major Major Major
@Mnemosyne: plenty of Jews hate Muslims.
mai naem mobile
@Baud: I think he’s talking about Chuck E Cheese Todd.
khead
@Pogonip:
Ok, I will add a little more. I guess it depends how many cats you have. For us – even when we had “only” three cats – all it took was one round of litter box cleaning for the amount of litter in the bag to be so large that the whole “just put the bag in the top and pull the handle thing” didn’t really work for us. For less cats it may be better but we found that it was just less hassle to go straight from litter gathering to the trash.
mai naem mobile
@CaseyL: In the House not the Senate.
Major Major Major Major
@mai naem mobile: I’ll bet there will be a concerted effort on the left to dump Amy Schumer’s cousin before the next congress begins.
greennotGreen
@Pogonip: Litter Genie is a plastic receptacle with custom plastic bags. To use it, you lift the lid, dump the waste inside, then pull out a sliding door which allows the waste to drop into the bag at the bottom of the receptacle. Then you let go of the sliding door which pops back into place blocking the smell. Continue until the bag is full. At that point you open the top half of the Litter Genie, dispense a bit more of the continuous bag, cut it on the attached cutter, tie it off, and remove the bag. Pull out some more of the continuous bag, tie a knot in the bottom, re-close the top, and you’re ready to go. Your hands have never touched anything nasty, and, as I said before, any smells are well contained.
p.a.
@Mnemosyne: Does the card get discounts on more than Manischewitz and vacations in the Catskills?
raven
Beaucop top ten teams bite the dust.
mai naem mobile
@Mnemosyne: don’t feed the troll
greennotGreen
@khead: I have two cats, and I find it useful, but I agree, with more cats it would be of limited appeal.
Mnemosyne
@mai naem mobile:
This. This is exactly how the Republicans operate. Time to turn their tactics against them.
Mnemosyne
Also, because I am a real asshole, I would LOVE to have Nancy Pelosi and other top Dems publicly negotiate changes to legislation and then vote against it anyway. Sorry, Charlie Brown!
Mnemosyne
@CaseyL:
Yep, so there’s really no reason for them to get a single Democratic vote. They broke it, they bought it.
mai naem mobile
@Major Major Major Major: I have mixed feelings on that. I think Schumer may feel pressured by Wall Street to go along with some crappy finance legislation but he’s from a blue state and seems to have strategery cred. Oh,and Harry Reid wanted him to be his successor. Not sure if Durbin and Patty Murray would do as good a job.
Dog Dawg Damn
@Mary G: Have you not been paying attention mary? They have no intention of giving us anything. Don’t fall for it again.
If he gains political capital, he will use it to FUCK US OVER. When the Republic is at stake, you don’t make compromises. You fight tooth and nail and refuse to normalize.
khead
@raven:
Washington is toast. 3 in the Top 10 down. I have been rooting for chaos all day. F’in Hokies though. Didn’t show up. At home even.
greennotGreen
This being an open thread, may I ask if anyone has recently purchased an HP desktop? I have built my last few desktops from kits, but I’m really over doing that, and I need to replace my aging tower. Costco is running some sales soon on HP and Dell, and I wonder if anyone has an opinion one way or another. I want to spend less that $1000, but I put out a newsletter with a lot of graphics, so I need a bit of power.
Emma
@bear88: And how is he going to do that? Which company is going to leave slave-labor no-overhead China to come back and pay American wages?
Mnemosyne
@mai naem mobile:
But he let me jump on my favorite hobbyhorse!
Okay, fine. You’re no fun anymore.
Major Major Major Major
@mai naem mobile: I’m just saying I can guarantee there will be a dust up from the Zach-yelling-at-Donna-Brazille wing of the party to dump Schumer before he’s served a single day as leader.
mai naem mobile
@Mnemosyne: the thing the Dems need to internalize is what a lot of minorities and women learned in the 60s and 70s. You have to be twice ad good as the white guy to get as far as the white guy. The Dems need to plan having voter turnout way way over and beyond what is needed to actually win because of voter suppression.
Another Scott
@Baud: Yup. The Senate has a deserved reputation of having 100 members who imagine they (obviously) deserve to be President. They have Holds (of various kinds), powers to block judicial nominations from their states, etc. They’re not going to automatically roll over for Trump. They’re going to jealously guard their power.
We have to exploit any difference of opinion between Donnie and the GOP in the Senate. If Campbell wins in Louisiana, then the Senate would be 49:51. It’s not impossible for 2 Senators to be persuaded to change parties (two changed in the mid-90s, though it would be extremely difficult now). And if McConnell doesn’t blow up the Filibuster, then they will need at least 9 Democrats to move non-budget votes forward. We would have to worry about judicial appointments and the use of Reconciliation to blow up the budget and important things in it (like Obamacare), but things like destroying the EPA, the Department of Education, etc., would be within the possibility of preventing.
We’ll have to see, and try to prepare for any possible option.
I hope CCM is getting a crash course on Senate rules and procedures from Harry Reid…
Cheers,
Scott.
Gator90
@Major Major Major Major: plenty of Jews hate Muslims.
“Plenty” is an amorphous term. The great majority of American Jews do not hate Muslims, and even many of those who do would nevertheless oppose persecution of Muslims in America.
Morzer
@raven:
If they don’t have the stones to do it, primary the gutless fuckers until they learn to fear us more than the Chuck Todds of this world. You get the congress-critters you are prepared to put up with. No more pretending to be Republican-lite. Let’s have an honest, open Democratic party that fights for Americans and doesn’t sell out to the highest bidder. No more Democrats giving speeches behind closed doors to Wall St that they are afraid to publish and can’t defend to the voters. You want our votes – earn them as a Democrat should, by fighting for all Americans to enjoy peace, respect, full civil liberties and a chance at prosperity.
Miss Bianca
@Omnes Omnibus: love that movie. Me, I’m going for Dr. Strangelove. It’s all I’m really in the mood for. (well, that and Young Frankenstein).
TS
@msdc:
Actually they don’t – most of the time the public, aided by the media – blames the democrats for anything and everything that happens. Why they started blaming Obama for the recession – that happened when Bush was in charge. Many blamed Obama for 9/11.
I stand by my comment that dems should act exactly as did the GOP in 2008/9 – but it won’t be easy. The media and the GOP will attack them as they NEVER attacked turtle & Co. FLOTUS may go high – I’m into go low.
Steeplejack
@Dadadadadadada:
Contacts for front-pagers are under “Quick Links” at the upper right of the page.
Mnemosyne
@TS:
We don’t have to go low, necessarily. We just have to go limp. Bartleby the Scrivener, if you will: I would prefer not to.
John Lewis can hold a seminar.
Omnes Omnibus
@Miss Bianca: I’ve been looking for nice and decent recently for some reason.
Dog Dawg Damn
For the first time, this thread is giving me hope that the base understands what it will take.
By 2016, even MSM media people were openly using terms like “Rino” because they had penetrated the bubble. We need to do the same.
We will most certainly lose seats that could be won. But when they took out Eric Cantor, the coup had been achieved and the Rubicon crossed. We need to do the same.
Also, can the old guard in safe seats resign now PLEASE.
Lizzy L
@greennotGreen: The last HP desktop I bought crapped out after a year and a half; the hard drive turned into a brick and that was that. I replaced it with a Dell, which has been going strong for I think it’s been six years. I have an HP laptop which someone gave me — no issues with it.
Miss Bianca
@Omnes Omnibus: My refuge recently has been dark, dark humor. But a good hard gallop over open ground today blew some of the despair-crazies away. Puppies and kittens and a new horse at the kennels and my kind, decent friends all helped, too.
Storing up energy for the battles to come.
Omnes Omnibus
@Dog Dawg Damn: Everyone comes to anger at their own pace. Shock and disbelief are out there. I was a soldier and am a lawyer. You were a gay activist. How do we coordinate?
Gin & Tonic
@Miss Bianca:
Long bike ride does it for me, but same thing. It was clear and cool here today, almost no wind, ideal day for some hard miles.
Omnes Omnibus
@Miss Bianca: Good. Let’s figure it out and go get them. If we are wrong and Americans are really fascists, then let’s put up a good last fight. We will look good in future history books.
TS
So the wapo – that people are saying was the best of the media in attacking Trump is out their saying Hillary ran a bad campaign – BECAUSE SHE BELIEVED THE POLLS and put her money where it was thought it was needed. Trump got billions in free media – never seen that happen to a democrat. The only free media about Hillary was emails and emails and the fbi director.
Give them nothing – where do they think all these manufacturing jobs are going to come from? What the great white unwashed voted for was manufacturing jobs that pay union wages – hahahahaha. Not going to happen. Trump will still buy his hats from China.
NR
@schrodinger’s cat: It needs to be talked about, because some people here still aren’t getting it.
We told you that Hillary’s baggage would be a problem. You said it wouldn’t matter, that all her negatives were already “baked in” (whatever that was even supposed to mean).
We were right. You were wrong.
We told you that Democratic neoliberal economic policies were going to leave an opening for a populist movement on the right to come in and pick up the working class voters, especially in the Rust Belt, that the Democrats were forgetting about. You said this was never going to happen and that Obama’s economic policies were perfect.
We were right. You were wrong.
Now, we’re saying that the Democratic party needs to start putting the needs of the American working class (of all races) ahead of the desires of its big corporate donors. You’re saying that all those Rust Belt voters need is more third-way neoliberal incrementalism, with a heaping helping of being called racists on top of that.
Once again, we are right and you are wrong.
The point of saying these things is not to gloat, it’s to get you to consider the idea that listening to the people who have been right all along, while you were busy whistling past the graveyard, just might be a good idea.
Miss Bianca
@Omnes Omnibus: Like Adam and Woody Guthrie have said, “we fight till we win”.
(Well, Woody said that. I’m paraphrasing Adam).
Omnes Omnibus
@NR: You are a GOP troll.
NR
@Omnes Omnibus: If I was a GOP troll, I’d be cheering you guys on right now. If the Democratic party follows your preferred course of action, it will be decades before it gets back in power.
Omnes Omnibus
@NR: You don’t know what my preferred plan of action is. I know who you are and what you try to do. Fuck off. BTW last post to you.
NR
@Omnes Omnibus: You don’t know anything about me, bud.
Omnes Omnibus
@NR: I’ve seen your actions for eight years. I can judge. Fuck off.
Mnemosyne
@NR:
In Milwaukee county, Wisconsin, 41,000 Obama voters were not allowed to vote this year.
Trump’s margin of victory in Wisconsin is currently 27,000. Is that a larger or smaller number than 41,000?
Hillary will end up about 2 million votes ahead in the popular vote count, which is why Republicans deliberately and systematically suppressed the Democratic vote in the states they control.
We got played, and you refuse to even look at the facts.
NR
@Omnes Omnibus:
No. But you can if you want to. All the same to me.
NR
@Mnemosyne: Fighting voter suppression is important, but if we continue to ignore the damage that neoliberal economics has done to the working class and the Democratic party, it won’t be enough.
Edit: By the way, your own link does not say what you claim it does. Turnout was down by 41,000 in Milwaukee. It does not say 41,000 votes were lost due to voter suppression.
Mnemosyne
@NR:
Also, too, if we fail in 2018, it’s game over. Banana republic forever. So how about you climb off your purity pony and get down in the mud with people who have some actual ideas about how to move forward, hmmm?
NR
@Mnemosyne: What “purity pony” am I on, exactly?
By the way, your own link does not say what you claim it does. Turnout was down by 41,000 in Milwaukee. It does not say 41,000 votes were lost due to voter suppression. Maybe you should look at the facts yourself before you accuse others of failing to do so, eh?
Mnemosyne
@NR:
No one is ignoring it. Did you pay any attention to any of Hillary’s actual policies, or did you assume it was all just rewrites of 1996?
The people who voted for Trump don’t give a shit about policy. They voted for his policy of, “Put white people on top again.” We do need to get the people who didn’t vote this year, but we need to find out why they didn’t vote first. I doubt that a single one of them will use the phrase, “neoliberal economics” unless they’re already a comfortable Jill Stein voter.
enplaned
@schrodinger’s cat: Yeah, you’re the one who pissed all over those who noted her ability to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory, and now we’re supposed to shut up? I got it right (unfortunately) and you got it wrong (unfortunately).
NR
@Mnemosyne:
The sheer ignorance packed into this single sentence is really something.
Trump got a higher percentage of black and Hispanic voters than Mitt Romney did. Maybe, just maybe, there’s something more going on than people voting to “put white people on top again?”
Mnemosyne
@NR:
Yes, I’m sure it was a total co-inkydink that Black voters, usually the most faithful of Democratic voters, just happened to not show up after voter suppression policies specifically aimed at them blocked them from the polls.
And if you try to claim that they only turned out to vote for Obama because he was Black, you can fuck right off immediately and with vigor.
TS
@NR: When you say it over and over YOU ARE GLOATING. Rather like those who say “I am not a racist” and then vote Trump. P!ss off
Mnemosyne
@NR:
With Black and Hispanic voters, it was, “Put men on top again,” with an extra dose of “pro-life” voting. Haven’t you ever heard that it’s against God’s will for women to be leaders over men? I guarantee you they’ve heard it hundreds, if not thousands, of times.
To be clear, I do think that there are non-voters who are economically insecure and didn’t hear a message they wanted, but will need to get some surveys done to find out. But Trump voters were primarily motivated by hatred and bigotry. At best, they were motivated by stupidity.
enplaned
@Mnemosyne: Yeah, you’re focused on those last straws that broke the camel’s back. Bigger picture is she shouldn’t have been close to defeat. Should have been a comfortable win. You’re missing the forest for the little tiny branches…
NR
@Mnemosyne: From your own link:
116 provisional ballots out of 41,000 fewer votes. Let’s say that ten times as many people were turned away without getting a provisional ballot. Hell, let’s be very generous to your argument and say that one hundred times as many people were turned away without a provisional ballot. There’s no evidence it was anywhere near that many, but like I said, we’ll be very generous to your argument. That still barely accounts for one-quarter of the drop in votes.
Fighting voter suppression is important, as I said. But you’re just being willfully ignorant if you’re trying to blame Hillary losing Wisconsin solely on voter suppression.
NR
@TS: I say it over and over because the message hasn’t penetrated the thick skulls of some people around here (though thankfully, some others do seem to get it).
enplaned
@TS: No, NR is trying to get thru to those who will not listen. In this case, about as successful as teaching a pig to sing. The analysis of Mnemosyne and Schroedingers Cat and others, pre-election, was wrong. At this point you’d think maybe they’d shut up and listen to some others for a while, because their insight has been proven to suck. In this case, rather than sing, it would just be nice if the pig, having shit the bed, would at least entertain the opinions of others. But it’s not in the nature of swine to do that.
NR
@Mnemosyne:
This is progress of a sort I suppose. But eventually you’re going to have to face up to the idea that the major parties’ current approach to economics could drive people into the arms of someone like Trump.
I don’t recall the source of the quote, but it’s apt: “When the public is denied reasonable alternatives by those in power, it will turn to unreasonable alternatives.”
catclub
@Mnemosyne:
That is not the same as 41000 turned away due to ID. At all.
Mnemosyne
@enplaned:
@NR:
I almost replied to each of you individually, but fuckit.
You have two choices. You can go sit in the corner and cry, or you can join the fight.
The election is over, unless you have a T.A.R.D.I.S. and a specific plan that isn’t “no DNC meddling!” or “unnamed better Democrat magically appearing!”
If you don’t have both of those things, then either STFU or get working for 2018.
Mnemosyne
@catclub:
Serious question: do you honestly think it’s a coincidence that voter turnout in predominantly Black areas dipped by just enough to ensure a Republican victory?
NR
@efgoldman:
I have repeatedly acknowledged that these were factors in Trump’s victory. What I refuse to do is pretend they were the only factors. Unlike you guys, I don’t put my fingers in my ears and scream “LA LA LA LA I’M NOT LISTENING!!!!!!!!” when confronted with facts and ideas.
Mnemosyne
@NR:
What is your plan for 2018?
“No neoliberal economics” is not a plan. It’s a catchphrase.
NR
@Mnemosyne: Replace the Democratic party leadership, and make sure that voters understand that when Trump doesn’t deliver what he promised, we’re the party looking out for their interests. It’s going to be hard to sell that message, but new leadership will help.
Mnemosyne
@NR:
Replace which leaders? Name them.
Hint: the Senate Minority Leader needs to be an actual member of the US Senate. The House Minority Leader needs to be an actual member of the House.
FlipYrWhig
@Mnemosyne: NR’s prescription is “unspecified people should do unspecified things and also stop neoliberaling so much, which would make me marginally less miserable, and then, by extension, victory is assured.” He’s a leprous sack of waste.
Miss Bianca
@Mnemosyne: At this point, I kind of wish those two would get a room and fuck each other off.
Mnemosyne
@Miss Bianca:
I think Mustang Bobby is writing a romance novel about that. ;-)
CarolDuhart2
@efgoldman: And remember, most coal is used to generate electricity. The electrical demand isn’t there anymore-we’ve gone energy efficient massively. A lot of people now use flourescents and led’s for light now. Electricity-sucking CRTS have been replaced by flatscreens. And there is a growing demand for solar panels, and hundreds of wind turbines are already up. Technology goes relentlessly forward even if Trump cancels green initiatives on the Federal Level. And btw, the Federal Government Green initiatives will continue-they are already underway as agencies are working on lowering the cost of doing business by saving energy.