Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Second rate reporter says what?

They traffic in fear. it is their only currency. if we are fearful, they are winning.

Accused of treason; bitches about the ratings. I am in awe.

Too often we hand the biggest microphones to the cynics and the critics who delight in declaring failure.

You can’t love your country only when you win.

American History and Black History Cannot Be Separated

They are lying in pursuit of an agenda.

Incompetence, fear, or corruption? why not all three?

They love authoritarianism, but only when they get to be the authoritarians.

“Can i answer the question? No you can not!”

But frankly mr. cole, I’ll be happier when you get back to telling us to go fuck ourselves.

Today’s GOP: why go just far enough when too far is right there?

Happy indictment week to all who celebrate!

I was promised a recession.

Republicans are radicals, not conservatives.

It may be funny to you motherfucker, but it’s not funny to me.

Something needs to be done about our bogus SCOTUS.

Sadly, there is no cure for stupid.

I like you, you’re my kind of trouble.

“Everybody’s entitled to be an idiot.”

Jesus, Mary, & Joseph how is that election even close?

How can republicans represent us when they don’t trust women?

Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Pessimism assures that nothing of any importance will change.

You are here: Home / The First Two Tests

The First Two Tests

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I guess we’re all supposed to buy subscriptions to the New York Times to support great journalism.  Well, I subscribe to the Washington Post and the Guardian (as well as TPM Prime), and I’ll consider subscribing to the Times when I see how they handle the news that Paul Ryan wants to end Medicare and the appointment of the racist alt-right sociopath Steve Bannon to a top spot in Trump’s White House.

If the Ryan articles are a bunch of punch-pulling about “reform” and “privatization”, explaining why it won’t be so bad after all, and if they just accept the bald-faced lie that Obamacare killed the Medicare star, is that the “great journalism” that I’m supposed to be supporting?  I couldn’t find a good Medicare story, but here’s how the Times describes Bannon:

Perhaps the deepest schism is between Stephen K. Bannon, the conservative provocateur and media entrepreneur who was Mr. Trump’s campaign chairman, and Reince Priebus, the Republican Party chairman who came to terms with Mr. Trump’s candidacy. Both are on a short list for chief of staff, according to people close to the campaign, and whoever is chosen, the other is likely to get another senior White House post.

[…]

Mr. Bannon, the executive chairman of the conservative website Breitbart News and onetime Goldman Sachs executive, is an avowed enemy of House Speaker Paul D. Ryan. An anti-establishment verbal bomb thrower with ties to the alt-right movement, Mr. Bannon may have little interest in compromising with the Republican-controlled Congress under its current leadership. He is an unabashed critic of the current immigration system and repeatedly encouraged Mr. Trump to appeal to the party’s base in the closing days of the campaign with arguments against globalization.

Contrast that with Yahoo News story on Bannon, which includes Hillary Clinton’s tweet with some racist, sexist and xenophobic Breitbart headlines.  I think that story is far more informative about what Breitbart really is, and what it means to have Bannon in the White House.

If you want to really inform readers, the genteel euphemisms that the Times loves to use just don’t cut it.  It is not the zenith of journalistic cleverness to use a tweet from Clinton to show what Breitbart really is – but it is better journalism than the Times’ story.

Reader Interactions

128Comments

  1. 1.

    Big R

    Yeah, I keep seeing the “subscribe to the Times” argument, and I’m going, kindly explain the logic behind this. Somebody here (Betty? AL?) said “we need it,” and I’m open to that argument but need the links in the chain made a LOT more explicit.

  2. 2.

    Trentrunner

    The Trump Presidency will be like the Trump campaign x100: They will do so many outrageous things at once that even a properly-outraged MSM couldn’t keep up.

    Since last Tuesday:

    – Trump intimidates NYTimes
    – Conway threatens legal action against Harry Reid
    – Medicare privatization in 2017
    – Obamacare special session on Inaugural Day
    – Trump Psycho-Kids Keeping Business & Running White House
    – Trump says 2-3 million will be deported
    – Nazi Bannon named Senior Advisor
    (And I’m sure I’m forgetting something…)

    And, as this post shows, our MSM is pretty fucking far from properly outraged. That NYT Bannon profile makes him sound like a roguish outsider Who Makes His Own Rules rather than the wifebeating anti-semite (all testified to UNDER OATH) that he is.

  6. 6.

    MikeBoyScout

    To the extent MSM “journalism” will continue to exist, none will be permitted to journal the truth; either via censorship or self-censorship.

    Don’t wait. Develop or find underground news sources.

  8. 8.

    Taylor

    When the Times killed Risen’s story in 2004 about illegal wiretapping, I realized that they saw themselves first and foremost as part of the establishment.

    They only provide as much information to the proles as they think they can handle.

    Sulzberger’s recent non-apology apology was transparently intended to allow RW readers to see it as an apology to the right, and LW readers to see it as an apology to the left. He thinks it is still 1960.

    I won’t even read their Book section online. They are dead to me.

  9. 9.

    Emma

    @MikeBoyScout: I keep telling people we need to develop the equivalent of Zamizdat. No professionals needed; just people willing to collect news and post it without euphemisms. There are blogs out there that do that, sure but we need a coordinated effort. Besides, I think they will soon come for the liberal bloggers. It needs to be fast and pop up without notice.

  10. 10.

    toine

    The Democrats really need to find a way to break through this. Every Democrat should try to get in front of as many cameras as possible. They should all point out in unequivocal terms who Bannon is. Don’t mealy-mouth it. Don’t let the press mealy-mouth it. Learn to work the refs the same way Republicans do so well.

    In the next couple of days, every Democrat in front of a camera should be blasting Pam Bondi’s addition to the transition team. It’s a no-brainer. Start screaming corruption now and don’t stop until the press is forced to report it…

  11. 11.

    eemom

    I actually had someone unfriend me today over my argument that the media played a part in this nightmare, this person having insisted that it was all Hillary’s fault for being a shitty candidate. The person went on to praise the media — specifically, the NYT and NPR — for asking the “tough questions.”

    This was a smart person. The mind reels. The body collapses in a heap of hopelessness.

  12. 12.

    Emerald

    @MikeBoyScout:

    I’m betting on self censorship. They’ve already started. The NYT is still writing about the emails. In two months we’re going to be getting stories about our great new president who won with that huge mandate!

    Yeah, we’re going to have to count on things like viral videos to get the truth out to the world.

    That’s if we still have a functioning internet.

  13. 13.

    geg6

    Fuck the NYT and all the MSM. They are not worth supporting. Maybe the WaPo, but they are on notice. Mother Jones is it for me. That’s pretty much it.

  18. 18.

    qwerty42

    I kind of gave up on the NYT. I like the Sunday paper, but the absurd focus on the Clinton Foundation did it for me. WaPo did more useful work on Trump’s foundation.

  20. 20.

    Ohio Mom

    Back when I was in elementary school, most Sundays I was sent to the corner store to buy the Times (my dad bought the weekday paper on his way to work and brought it home at the end of the day). It was a lot to carry home, it was huge. Took both arms to hold it across my chest.

    Another early memory is my mom putting down the paper to answer my question about “what does a quarter after mean?” and her drawing clock faces in the margins (she must have been doing the puzzle because she had the pencil right at hand).

    Sentimental old thing I am, I still take pleasure in the daily Times. It gives me a sense of continuity.

    But yeah, I’m about ready to cancel my subscription and send that money elsewhere. The Guardian and TPM are on the short list.

  22. 22.

    JPL

    My comment won’t get noticed because there are over 1000 on the site.. but it was posted within minutes..

    What a polite description about Mr. Bannon, who happens to have a black crime tag on his website. What a polite description about Mr. Bannon, whose wife during their divorce stated he didn’t want their children attending schools with Jews. What a polite way to talk about the alt-right.
    I knew I could count on the NY Times to keep the discussion genteel.

  23. 23.

    JPL

    @Martha: I used to get Sunday delivery and the Insider. They convinced me to stay the first time. I changed this week to digital only for fifteen dollars a month. I have been doing the puzzle for years, and the next step will be to see if I can get the crossword without a subscription.

  27. 27.

    K488

    I hope the MSM will start reporting more comprehensively on the rise of hate crimes. Just heard the news that an Episcopal church not far from us was vandalized with swastikas and homophonic slogans and “Heil Trump” painted on it. I know that we’re living in a tiny blue spot in the middle of Pence land, and that this church is in the still tinier town of Bean Blossom, 20 miles from us and not far from the center of our fair state’s KKK. My gay son and his husband have been properly leery of visiting us here (we’re recent transplants from Michigan) ever since Pence signed the anti-gay law in the dead of night a year and a half ago. We’ll be traveling to see them, somewhat more safely ensconced in Vermont for the foreseeable future.

  28. 28.

    Josie

    @MomSense: I agree. I will not be reading the fucking NYT. I subscribed to the Washington Post through Amazon Prime and will be watching them closely during the six month intro period.

  30. 30.

    Percysowner

    Yeah, I subscribe to the Washington Post, my local paper, Talking Points Memo and Mother Jones. I’m not going to give money to the NYT until I see what type of reporting they do. I have no desire to support MoDo and Bobo Brooks.

  35. 35.

    JPL

    @Steeplejack (tablet): Good Luck with that. I saw the snippet yesterday where he’s only going to use twitter to go after bad stories. Journalists are terrified because I’m sure he has stories to tell.

  40. 40.

    MikeBoyScout

    @Emerald: The internet can’t be underground by definition. Our reporting and news will need to come from other means, otherwise it can be compromised.

  42. 42.

    Mary G

    I saw Trump’s tweet knocking the NYT and thought, oh Trump’s against them, maybe they did something good. Read some of a selection of front page articles and said, nope. Worse than I expected. That letter to readers was the most condescending mush of bullshit. So, I will just keep reading the articles I can get for free, which is at least 70 with all the devices the house contains.

  46. 46.

    Elie

    I will discontinue my Times subscription tomorrow and pick up the Guardian. I already have WAPO but I am watching how they perform.

  48. 48.

    delk

    @JPL: I have the NYT crossword app on my iPad. I like it because it has archives of puzzles. I’ve been working backwards–just the Friday and Saturday puzzles. I just started the July 5, 2014 puzzle.

  51. 51.

    CatHairEverywhere

    Even though I read every post, I am mostly a lurker here. This is not exactly on topic, but I really enjoyed this op-ed from The Baltimore Sun regarding changes to the electoral college. I live in a high-population, non-swing state, and we are virtually ignored during the election. I don’t like how 5-6 states essentially decide our election, (much less how 2 little states have so much influence in who our candidates are, but that’s another topic) and the current situation makes me feel like my vote counts for less than a vote from a swing state. I would imagine the minority party voters of the “sure bet” states really feel like their votes don’t count. I think this is an issue we can push toward that will help us in future elections. http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/opinion/editorial/bs-ed-electoral-college-20161113-story.html

  52. 52.

    Schlemazel

    This morning an ad appeared on my FB feed urging me to subscribe to the Wall Street Whores Journal. I took the opportunity to tell them what I thought but laughed my ass off at the comments attached to the post. Lets just say there was not any love for them & the money was not well spent. Something like 500 comments & not a one was supportive.

  55. 55.

    pacem appellant

    I strongly disagree with Tim F. When/If the NYT becomes a bastion of journalistic integrity, then I’ll throw them some coin. I will not reward cowardice and ineptitude

  56. 56.

    JPL

    @Starfish: That didn’t even occur to me. In the olden days, the NYTimes comment blogs were filled with additional information about a topic. Sometimes you could learn more from the comments, than the article. I guess those days are gone.

    now I feel dirty.

  57. 57.

    Schlemazel

    @CatHairEverywhere:
    All together N. Dakota, S. Dakota, Wyoming, Montana and Idaho have about the same population as Minnesota. Minnesota gets 10 EC votes, those others get 16. This is not one man, one vote but the remnants of slavery and the torture they applied to the Constitution to protect slavery from democracy.

    Michigan has twice as many people as those 5 and gets 16 EC votes just for comparison

  59. 59.

    Shalimar

    @Trentrunner: You can’t have a “special session” of a legislature that is already in it’s normal session. They’re just making shit up for marketing purposes now, like a special racism episode of Different Strokes.

  60. 60.

    The Other Bob

    “In 1933, the year Adolf Hitler (1889-1945) became chancellor of Germany, he named Joseph Goebbels (1897-1945), his trusted friend and colleague, to the key post of minister for public enlightenment and propaganda.”

  61. 61.

    PhoenixRising

    @Schlemazel: But that’s not the whole picture of why Electoral College reform is good!

    It’s good because to get it, everyone has to vote for Democrats in their state legislatures. GOP legislators will never, ever allow it because they know they will lose power under any other system.

    So it’s a good goal, and the tactic to achieve it gives a hook to get more Democratic or independent voters to clean the deadwood out of their state houses. Win/win. And it drives urgency for state elections in ’17-18 (governors).

  62. 62.

    Eljai

    We all need to call our rep’s district office tomorrow and tell them that you did not vote to end Medicare. This is important if you live in a red state or blue. Trump did not run on this platform. Make Dems fight and force the GOP to divide and side with Dems on this.

  63. 63.

    Chris

    @napoleon:

    Fuck the NYT. They are a HUGE part of the problem.

    They are a huge part of the problem, but I think the problem’s magnified even more by the popular perception, incredibly surviving even today, that the MSM is “liberally biased.” (It’s not just conservatives who believe this).

    Therefore, people who realize the media’s full of shit and try to compensate for it don’t even know how to compensate. Stories that appear harmful to conservatives are dismissed, because everyone believes it’s the liberal media up to its usual tricks. Stories that appear harmful to liberals are taken more seriously, because everyone believes that if they’re reporting it despite their biases… (It’s where “even the liberal NYTimes” comes in). No wonder so many people bought “crooked Hillary.”

    There are a hell of a lot of problems in this country that manifest in the form of the public following ingrained scripts that are assumed to be true no matter how blatantly they contradict the facts. “The media is liberal” is one of the biggies. (“Republicans are stronger on national security” is another. Etc).

  64. 64.

    SenyorDave

    I just sent this letter to my Rabbi and Cantor at my synagogue.

    Dear Rabbi Starr and Cantor Jan,
    I came across this on Yahoo News today:
    President-elect Donald Trump announced on Sunday that Republican National Committee Chairman Reince Priebus will be his chief of staff and Steve Bannon, his campaign’s chief executive and the former chairman of the conservative website Breitbart News, will serve as his chief strategist and senior counselor.
    This is also from the same story:
    The 62-year-old Bannon assumed the role as head of Trump’s campaign in August in a shakeup that was criticized by both Democrats and Republicans because of Breitbart’s far-right worldview.
    The Breitbart website often publishes racist and anti-Semitic articles, and is a hangout for white nationalists. I find it outrageous that this man will be a senior adviser to the president and paid a salary with our tax dollars.
    I do not believe that this is a political issue; this is a moral issue. I think there needs to be push back against the idea that a man who has been directly involved with the alt-right movement and the ideas they promote will be working in the White House and having a senior position reporting to the president of the United States.
    My question is whether the Reconstructionist movement (and other Jewish denominations) might consider taking a position on this issue?
    Respectfully,

  65. 65.

    David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch

    @schrodinger’s cat:

    NYT has been one of the worst of all the media outlets covering the election. I am not going to bother reading an NYT link ever.

    This.

    I stopped reading them in August after their disgusting over the top cheerleadering of his mexico trip.

  66. 66.

    PhoenixRising

    On topic, the NY Times can kiss my ass in the unemployment line. They are as responsible as anyone for this outcome, and I’m hardly setting aside money for MoDo to tell me why Trump is terrible when she used column inches to attack HIllary for decades.

  67. 67.

    TS

    I blame ALL media – and that includes TPM for the election of Trump. If you looked at the headlines over the past 12 months on TPM 90% related to Trump. Anything related to Hillary included emails. Josh Marshall makes out he supports the left – you wouldn’t know that from looking at his web site.

  69. 69.

    PhoenixRising

    @SenyorDave: Applause & may be lifting your language.

    I drove past temple yesterday morning because I cannot face the mature white Conservative Jews who voted for He Who Must Not Be Named. They embraced him at CPAC and I just…can’t…How do you get to be that age and be so damn stupid?

  70. 70.

    Dog Dawg Damn

    Everyone should Read Jeet Heer’s tweetstorm on the best approach to mounting a resistance:

    https://twitter.com/HeerJeet

    Bottom Line: Pick winnable fights (i.e., not impeachment or electoral college reform).
    Use these as WEDGE issues to drive Trump and GOP apart.
    Blame the failure on Trump and take him down.

    The whole thing is beautiful, but the first big fight needs to be Medicare.

  71. 71.

    SenyorDave

    @rikyrah: And yet, nothing from the So-called Christian Pence on these attacks.

    I’m kind of hoping Obama speaks about this whole issue, something to calm things down at the same time implying that he encourages continued opposition. Worded correctly, I think he can make Trump and Pence look pretty bad (such as I’m sure that president-elect Trump and vice president-elect Pence would agree and are probably very busy, and at some point might make a statement).

  75. 75.

    Davis X. Machina

    @SenyorDave:

    My question is whether the Reconstructionist movement (and other Jewish denominations) might consider taking a position on this issue?

    Not so long as there are bullding funds, and allrightniks.

  77. 77.

    rustvariable2

    @napoleon:
    From Driftglass, this is horrifying:

    Chants of “lock her up” became a frequent rallying cry at Trump campaign events, and Mr. Trump told Mrs. Clinton at the second presidential debate that if elected, he would instruct his attorney general “to get a special prosecutor to look into your situation because there has never been so many lies, so much deception.”

    If he were president, he told her, “you’d be in jail.” That threat unnerved both Republican and Democratic legal analysts.

    The decision he faces echoes one confronted by Mr. Obama and his first attorney general, Eric H. Holder Jr., over whether to investigate Bush administration officials for extreme interrogation tactics against terrorism suspects that the Obama administration later deemed to be torture.

    Josh (TPM) notes:

    The idea that the Times would equate these two matters in this way shows an almost mind-boggling failure of editorial and legal judgment.

  78. 78.

    Peale

    @Dog Dawg Damn: since it appears that Ryan is going to just pass shit without debate if he’s still speaker, our resistance strategy will depend on what MCConnel does about the filibuster. If he keeps it, I’m not certain what Democrats are supposed to do. Their impulse is always to be helpful and also to try to stop these things, but I really don’t want them to start compromising to pass “best we could get” bills. Republicans will have no problem hanging a Medicare vote around a helpful Democrat’s head.

  79. 79.

    russell

    the Times has lovely wtiting, but Bill Keller killed it as a vehicle for critical political reporting.

  81. 81.

    NotMax

    Applying TPM’s Trump’s Razor™, long stretch but not beyond credibility considering the run-up to the election is that the whole thing is a false flag intended to be crammed into a box and drowned (again) so you know who can crow that he “saved Medicare.”

  83. 83.

    Thoughtful David

    We have to go to war, and we have two enemies: Republicans and the media. We have to destroy both.
    I live in the WaPo delivery area so it’s my “hometown” paper and have been reading it for years.
    I have previously cut back my subscription to weekend only, now I’m going to let it lapse.
    Don’t anyone get dreamy about the WaPo. Yes, sure they had some good articles and editorials about Trump in the last four or five months. And Farenthold did some great stuff. But very little of it made the front page. They’ve written about 4,345,687 articles about Clinton’s emails (or was that 43,456,871?–I lost track) and a high percentage of them were big, front page above-the-fold items.
    So, suddenly waking up at the last minute is better than not waking up at all, but the WaPo is still an enormous part of the problem we’re facing. If they had really been any good, we would have had decades of front-page articles about all the crap Republicans have spewed. They’re only slightly better than NYT and 99% as culpable in the current damage to our nation.
    Fuck them. Let me say it again, but louder: FUCK THEM.

  84. 84.

    Morzer

    When the Times gets around to committing journalism and has the spine to do so consistently, I’ll consider supporting them. Until then, giving them money is as good a plan as chucking it in the air and hoping it reaches a person who needs it. I feel much the same about the Boston Globe.

  85. 85.

    Corner Stone

    @SenyorDave: Obama said what he had to, did what he had to. I am baffled why anyone would ever think he needs to lift another finger to back off the racist assholes Trump has stirred up.
    Where is Trump? Where is his address? His call for respect? He pulled this to the forefront, and then tripled down by adding Bannon to WH actual fucking official duties.
    Where the fuck is he?

  86. 86.

    Matt McIrvin

    @NotMax: Ross Douthat said something similar–we could defeat Ryan but not Trump–but Jeet Heer’s point was that if Democrats can get out in front of this, it could look like they forced Ryan and Trump to back down, instead of Trump saving Medicare out of the goodness of his heart.

  88. 88.

    David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch

    @Baud: no clouds. no questions. doesn’t even cast a shawdow.

    NYT not even calling on trump to meet democrats half way and to reach across the aisle.

    funny that.

  89. 89.

    Morzer

    @Matt McIrvin:

    Defeating Ryan is still a pretty good objective, even if one agrees with Douthat (which I don’t). Beat Ryan and you’ve stopped the plan in the House and killed it for the foreseeable future. You might also disillusion the GOP base with Ryan, which is another good thing to aim for.

  90. 90.

    Dog Dawg Damn

    @Peale: his point is that the red state GOP constituents don’t want Medicare reform so we raise hell in their districts like we did for social security in 2005.

    You are forgetting that electoral politics is still st play and these ideas are actually unpopular.

  92. 92.

    dr. bloor

    Cancelled our NYT subscription yesterday, actually. They learned nothing from cheerleading Shrub’s vanity war, and characterized Trump’s climate-change denier EPA transition as a “contrarian”. There is absolutely no reason to expect they will be doing business any differently in the future.

  93. 93.

    Chris

    @SenyorDave:

    I do not believe that this is a political issue; this is a moral issue.

    I agree fully, but I’d add that I’ve increasingly come to think that way of the entire political debate.

    It’s something I realized over the course of my undergrad education, where I was regularly interacting with Republicans while developing my own liberal worldview. I started out still believing all the Aaron Sorkinian bullshit about patriotic opponents honorably disagreeing and how there’s something to be valued in each side. That gradually fades away when one actually start arguing about issue after issue and realizing – on which topic, exactly, am I willing to grant that Republicans have a point and aren’t monsters pushing horrifically inhuman ideas? Whether women should be allowed to control their own bodies? Whether LGBTQ should have the same rights and privileges as the rest of us? Whether Muslims, or other unpopular demographics, should be profiled and subject to specific treatments? Whether workers should have the right to unionize and have recourse against their bosses? Whether everybody’s entitled to a living wage? Whether health care should be a right or a privilege for those who can afford it? Whether people should have to rack up a stupendous amount of debt that’ll follow them for most of their working life like a ball and chain for a college education? Whether cops should be allowed to murder and harass people with impunity? Whether people should spend a lifetime in prison or be stripped of their rights because of victimless crimes? Whether torturing people is okay? Whether warrantless wiretapping is okay? Whether preemptive war on falsified pretenses is okay? Which political issue, of all those that’ve opposed us to Republicans in my lifetime, isn’t really a moral issue?

    None of this is an argument against what you’re saying. It’s meant to be more complementary. Virtually everything about politics nowadays is an intensely moral issue, and it’s hard to think of one for which I don’t think we (and certainly a religious institution, that at least in theory is supposed to be all about moral issues) don’t need to fight like hell.

  95. 95.

    SFAW

    @Taylor:

    Sulzberger’s recent non-apology apology

    As I wrote the other day:
    Pinch is a fucking asshole, and Punch should have strangled him in his crib.

  96. 96.

    Morzer

    Slate seems to think that Priebus is going to get the Chief of Staff gig, which suggests to me that the GOP is preparing to cage Donald Trump by using his basic laziness against him.

  97. 97.

    SFAW

    @Morzer:

    Defeating Ryan is still a pretty good objective, even if one agrees with Douthat (which I don’t). Beat Ryan and you’ve stopped the plan in the House and killed it for the foreseeable future.

    Unlikely. The common clay of the New West will find some other Pete Peterson-approved fuck to take over.

  98. 98.

    Lizzy L

    @Corner Stone: Kellyanne Conway was saying yesterday that Obama and Clinton should “calm” things down, as if the shit that’s happening across the country is on them. Very wisely, neither of them responded in any way. Peaceful protests are fine, and should continue as long as people have the energy to do them. If Obama were to speak, he might find a way to support those actions. (A lot of my friends were in a peaceful protest in Oakland, CA this afternoon.) But the ugliness, the assaults, the hate, the graffiti — that’s on Trump.

  99. 99.

    Morzer

    @Chris:

    I’d certainly like to see Sorkin explain to me the value of Steve Bannon’s views and behavior. Or Newt Gingrich’s. Or Donald Trump’s.

  100. 100.

    NotMax

    @Morzer

    After shutting down the government and threatening to destroy the credit of the country and with it the global economy with impunity, there may be no depth to which they’ll not sink, confident the base will suffer amnesia and rebound.

  101. 101.

    Morzer

    @SFAW:

    Oh they’ll keep coming – but that’s how it is with zombie Randism. You can’t ever kill the beast completely – but you can drive it back into its grave in the short-term. Which is worth doing!

  103. 103.

    Morzer

    @NotMax:

    Touch the bennies of the base and they’ll hear from it soon enough. They’ve never actually gone all the way on this and I think they’ll get quite a shock when they try it.

  106. 106.

    Corner Stone

    Steve Bannon is going to have a non-Senate confirmed position in the Trump WH. That’s…something. I guess.
    ECONOMIC ANXIETY!!

  108. 108.

    Chris

    @schrodinger’s cat:

    Ugh, speaking of things to watch/read, I finally read “Maus” the day after the election (had been meaning to get to it for a couple weeks when I found it on my roommate’s shelf, but after a fascist got elected, I was like “well, it’ll certainly hit the spot…”)

    @Morzer:

    Even by the standards of the pre-teabagger age, Sorkin’s Republicans were always better than the reality. John McCain was no Arnie Vinick, Jerry Falwell was no Al Caldwell, and I’m not even sure dumbass-in-chief Governor Ritchie was comparable to George W. Bush).

    @Morzer:

    Yeah, but then they’ll decide it was all the blacks and immigrants and unions and Muslims and coastal elites’ fault. Because reasons, because fuck you, and because shut up that’s why.

  109. 109.

    Mai.naem.mobile

    @SFAW: I remember reading somewhere Sulzbergers dad or grandad intentionally ran hardly any stories of what was going on with the Jewish people in Europe during WWII because he thought it would look like the NYT was pushing for war because of the Jewish people in Europe and that the NYT would face anti-semitism. Those Sulzbergers are some real profiles in courage.

    Also, as far as the WSJ,don’t forget the second email story near the election was first published by the WSJ.

  110. 110.

    Lizzy L

    I think the Medicare story needs to have everybody screaming at the President-elect “This isn’t fair! You said you wanted to protect Medicare!” He did say that, and he dislikes Ryan intensely. I think he’ll refuse to do it. Ryan will try to persuade him, but if the yelling gets loud enough, I don’t see a way for Ryan to win.

  115. 115.

    NotMax

    @Mai.naem.mobile

    The pre-war times (and Times) were in sync. (This is not to excuse the newspaper’s lack of backbone.)

    Remember the St. Louis.

    Also:

    Roosevelt was not alone in his reluctance to challenge the mood of the nation on the immigration issue. Three months before the St. Louis sailed, Congressional leaders in both US houses allowed to die in committee a bill sponsored by Senator Robert Wagner (D-N.Y.) and Representative Edith Rogers (R-Mass.). This bill would have admitted 20,000 Jewish children from Germany above the existing quota. Source

  117. 117.

    TS

    @David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch:

    NYT not even calling on trump to meet democrats half way and to reach across the aisle.

    Yet they were all calling on Hillary to reach across the aisle – when she wasn’t even elected – not to mention suggesting she use republicans in her administration. No-one seems to be asking Trump to appoint dems

  118. 118.

    Ohio Mom

    @Davis X. Machina: Nah, the Reform Movement’s leadership is stepping up. It’s on their website.

    I imagine the Reconstructivists will be on the case too, but they don’t have the infrastructure the larger branches do.

    Now, the Orthodox…a blight on my people. They’re cheering Trump on, those a**holes.

  119. 119.

    Chris

    @Ohio Mom:

    One of the nastier moments of the election campaign for me was sitting through a town hall debate in a synagogue, where one of the controversial points was whether or not the Democratic candidate had had the appalling poor taste of comparing Jewish refugees in the 1930s with Syrian refugees in the 2010s.

    I suspect more than a few people in that congregation had a thrill when Drumpf won.

  120. 120.

    clay

    @Mai.naem.mobile: The WSJ also published the Enquirer-buried-Trump’s-affair-with-a-Playboy-model-while-Melania-was-preggers story.

    Their editorial page is shit, but their reporting can be solid.

  122. 122.

    clay

    So, I consider myself a fairly aware news consumer, but right now is the first time I learned that Bannon was a Goldman Sachs executive.

    YOU’D THINK THAT MIGHT HAVE BEEN WORTH MENTIONING WHENEVER A TRUMP SUUROGATE ATTACKED HILLARY FOR ACCEPTING MONEY FROM GOLDMAN SACHS!!!

    Oh, but I forget… Trump’s an ‘outsider’.

  123. 123.

    Ohio Mom

    @Chris: Yes, that is a problem the organized Jewish community ignores. They like to take pride in how liberal we are as a group, overlooking that they are counting us liberal non-affiliated ones, and not owning up to all the actively affiliated ones who are anything but liberal.

    It is a vicious circle. The type who voted for Trump turn the rest of us away from joining up. Modern American Judaism has yet to tally the cost of putting Israel in the center of everything.

    But I don’t doubt for a second the Reform leadership is going to do its best to stand up to Trump and the rest of them. They are not stupid, they understand the existential threat here.

  124. 124.

    Chris

    @Ohio Mom:

    As a rabbi I read online a few years ago said, “if I questioned God’s existence, my congregation wouldn’t bat an eyelid. If I questioned the Israeli government, I’d be out of a job by nightfall.”

    I can sympathize. I fell away from the Catholic Church in large part for a similar vicious cycle, being sick of the kind of people who were running it.

  126. 126.

    Lizzy L

    @Chris: The thing is, T. listens to the last person he speaks with, and that means. the last person to make a convincing argument which strokes his ego wins. I’ve suggested one strategy, but given the man’s psyche and personality there are no guarantees it would work. Gotta try, though.

  127. 127.

    Steeplejack (phone)

    @Tilda Swinton’s Bald Cap:

    I couldn’t watch. I had it on the TV with the sound muted and couldn’t bring myself to turn it on. And I found myself avoiding even looking at it.

    I did decide that Melania looks like a Tatar princess that Trump won after he conquered some obscure tribe and burned all their yurts.

  128. 128.

    Applejinx

    Tell them privatization is globalization. That is the truth and exactly what’s wrong with it.

    Tell them what they want is ‘nationalization’.

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