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Balloon Juice

Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

My right to basic bodily autonomy is not on the table. that’s the new deal.

Speaking of republicans, is there a way for a political party to declare intellectual bankruptcy?

Everything is totally normal and fine!!!

The “burn-it-down” people are good with that until they become part of the kindling.

Never give a known liar the benefit of the doubt.

People identifying as christian while ignoring christ and his teachings is a strange thing indeed.

Whoever he was, that guy was nuts.

So many bastards, so little time.

Anne Laurie is a fucking hero in so many ways. ~ Betty Cracker

Celebrate the fucking wins.

The poor and middle-class pay taxes, the rich pay accountants, the wealthy pay politicians.

When you’re a Republican, they let you do it.

Too often we hand the biggest microphones to the cynics and the critics who delight in declaring failure.

We’re watching the self-immolation of the leading world power on a level unprecedented in human history.

Black Jesus loves a paper trail.

When tyranny becomes law, rebellion becomes duty. ~Thomas Jefferson

Jesus watching the most hateful people claiming to be his followers

I desperately hope that, yet again, i am wrong.

Weird. Rome has an American Pope and America has a Russian President.

’Where will you hide, Roberts, the laws all being flat?’

Compromise? There is no middle ground between a firefighter and an arsonist.

Whatever happens next week, the fight doesn’t end.

Jesus, Mary, & Joseph how is that election even close?

I see no possible difficulties whatsoever with this fool-proof plan.

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You are here: Home / Elections / Election 2016 / Late Night Open Thread: The Revanchists’ (Temporary) Revenge

Late Night Open Thread: The Revanchists’ (Temporary) Revenge

by Anne Laurie|  November 14, 201610:37 pm| 176 Comments

This post is in: Election 2016, Excellent Links, Fables Of The Reconstruction, Open Threads, Ever Get The Feeling You've Been Cheated?, Meth Laboratories of Democracy

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The narrative that this was a rebellion by the economically marginalized is an ennobling lie and should be stamped out immediately. pic.twitter.com/poV8Yix1yZ

— Michael LaPointe (@MWLaPointe) November 9, 2016

Instead of trying to understand Trump voters, maybe the more useful thing is to try to get Trump voters to understand about race & pluralism

— Dana Houle (@DanaHoule) November 13, 2016

While the more-Leftist-than-thou “progressives” — including their latest high-profile figurehead — are high-fiving each other in happy anticipation of potential public-outrage gigs over the next four years, at least some people are beginning to push back on the BUT WHITE WORKING CLASS HAS ALL THE SADS!!! meme so beloved of Very Serious Pundits. From the NYTimes, Robert P. Jones on “The Rage of White, Christian America“:

Between Barack Obama’s 2008 election and 2016, America has transformed from being a majority white Christian nation (54 percent) to a minority white Christian nation (43 percent).

But on Election Day, paradoxically, this anxious minority swarmed to the polls to elect as president the candidate who promised to “make America great again” and warned that he was its “last chance” to turn back the tide of cultural and economic change…

The choice before the country was starkly clear. Donald J. Trump’s Republican Party looked back wistfully to a monochromatic vision of 1950s America, while the major party fronting the first female presidential candidate celebrated the pluralistic future of 2050, when the Census Bureau first projected the United States would become a majority nonwhite nation.

My organization’s American Values Survey, released a few weeks before the election, found deep divides in the country on this issue. Americans are nearly evenly divided on whether American culture and way of life have changed for worse (51 percent) or better (48 percent) since the 1950s. Roughly two-thirds (66 percent) of Democrats say American culture has generally changed for the better since the 1950s, while roughly two-thirds (68 percent) of Republicans say American society and way of life have changed for the worse…

Message to ‘Tha Heartland’ and all its defenders, honest or (mostly) otherwise: 1963 is over. It is never coming back.

Maybe I've been unfair. Let me get right on that economic anxiety you've got & see what I can… You know what? Never mind. pic.twitter.com/oG3cPCf9Lp

— David Waldman (@KagroX) October 14, 2016

Thoughtful article (which started as a tweetstorm) from Patrick Thornton — “I’m a Coastal Elite From the Midwest: The Real Bubble is Rural America“:

… My home county in Ohio is 97 percent white. It, like a lot of other very unrepresentative counties, went heavily for Donald Trump.

My high school had about 950 students. Two were Asian. One was Hispanic. Zero were Muslim. All the teachers were white. My high school had more convicted sexual predator teachers than minority teachers. That’s a rural American story.

In many of these areas, the only Muslims you see are in movies like “American Sniper.” (I knew zero Muslims before going to college in another state.) You never see gay couples or even interracial ones. Much of rural and exurban American is a time capsule to America’s past.

And on Tuesday, Nov. 8, 2016, they dug it up…

To pin this election on the coastal elite is a cop-out. It’s intellectually dishonest, and it’s beneath us.

We, as a culture, have to stop infantilizing and deifying rural and white working-class Americans. Their experience is not more of a real American experience than anyone else’s, but when we say that it is, we give people a pass from seeing and understanding more of their country. More Americans need to see more of the United States. They need to shake hands with a Muslim, or talk soccer with a middle aged lesbian, or attend a lecture by a female business executive.

We must start asking all Americans to be their better selves. We must all understand that America is a melting pot and that none of us has a more authentic American experience…

https://t.co/g3NYtp2FPf pic.twitter.com/fyUPLWaJuh

— Farooq Butt (@fmbutt) November 11, 2016

@nhannahjones @GeeDee215 It's assumed that racism is the province of the uneducated. Trump's racism was supposed to repel educ white voters

— Stacey E. Singleton (@staceyNYCDC) November 12, 2016

There's also the conflation of rural with poor. Lots of rural areas are wealthy. Pop. isn't trapped, they've walled themselves off purposely https://t.co/TTQMX2P8kg

— Stacey E. Singleton (@staceyNYCDC) November 12, 2016

everyone: for god's sake why
55-year-old with pension: gays were kissing on TV so I destroyed medicare
everyone: lots to think about here

— Sam Thielman (@samthielman) November 14, 2016

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Previous Post: « One Day at a Time
Next Post: Tuesday Morning Open Thread: All Hope Is Not Lost »

Reader Interactions

176Comments

  1. 1.

    jacy

    November 14, 2016 at 10:44 pm

    For all the hand-wringing post-mortems trying to suss things out….I have no personal doubt that this is the answer. Racism + sexism = trump. You don’t need anything else.

  2. 2.

    Cookie Monster

    November 14, 2016 at 10:44 pm

    While I think the poor white working class meme is bullshit, I respectfully point out that Obama (2012) won < $50K 60%/38%, so it really was their votes that killed us.

    In fact, Hillary did slightly better than Obama did with the higher socio-economic groups, I think.

  3. 3.

    NobodySpecial

    November 14, 2016 at 10:47 pm

    Can’t speak for anyone but myself, but a lot of the most vocal Trumpers I was hearing in my personal area were classic white balls of resentment with money. They lived in the county for taxes, had nice homes, and never set foot in minority areas.

  4. 4.

    Ithink

    November 14, 2016 at 10:52 pm

    Almost got first comment status catching up on all the threads from today to see this new 1 freshly posted but whatevs (congrats jacy!) but I just wanted to say, while trying to avoid blanket statements and narratives regarding anybody or anything: Damn this man Trump and every single person, white, Christian, male and otherwise that lent him their support for the Presidency and F.U.R.B in terms of your well-being.
    I’ll disagree w/ their reactionary, revaunchist worldviews, politics and behavior while working tirelessly to ensure a more progressive and pluralistic society that ensures economic and social equality for all. But seriously, f*** the entire basketful of deplorables. They where their implacable hedonism that proudly and I’ll use whatever and all profanity my nominally Christian upbringing has tried to suppress from frequent use by myself.
    So yeah, there you have it! More commentary from the excellent posts above to come if I’m not too sleepy!?

  5. 5.

    WarMunchkin

    November 14, 2016 at 10:55 pm

    I just wanna say – when we’re talking about message or what the Democratic Party needs to do or whatever, I start from the baseline that 90+% of Trump supporters are, you know, Republicans, or, in other words, the same assholes who brought us Reagan and W. I’m not suggesting trying to do anything to win those people over, they’re either part of or successors to the 1968 whitelash. I’m not ever suggesting going out of our way to somehow empathize with the standard tier Republicans who have been stabbing us in the throat for a generation on class, race and gender. All the think pieces in the world aren’t going to magically make those people think we’re the bee’s knees – and I tire of the effort made by some pieces that say run-of-the-mill Republicans are some new phenomenon called “Trump Supporters”.

  6. 6.

    Omnes Omnibus

    November 14, 2016 at 10:56 pm

    @Ithink:

    I’ll disagree w/ their reactionary, revaunchist worldviews, politics and behavior while working tirelessly to ensure a more progressive and pluralistic society that ensures economic and social equality for all. But seriously, f*** the entire basketful of deplorables. They where their implacable hedonism that proudly and I’ll use whatever and all profanity my nominally Christian upbringing has tried to suppress from frequent use by myself

    QFT. Comment more often.

  7. 7.

    Mary G

    November 14, 2016 at 10:57 pm

    I am taking a page from Owen Ellickson’s twitter (is he in jail yet) and referring to the person who was elected by these people as it.

  8. 8.

    Kryptik

    November 14, 2016 at 10:58 pm

    I figured I might as well share this since it fits with the current theme of things. Wrote a Page/Diary over at LGF regarding my thoughts on the emptiness of the “identity politics” criticism:

    I Am An American, Too

  9. 9.

    NotMax

    November 14, 2016 at 11:01 pm

    The rare Reverse Bigfoot!

  10. 10.

    Mary G

    November 14, 2016 at 11:01 pm

    Baylor student shoves another and uses the n-word, but then something good happened.

    Push back.

  11. 11.

    Tenar Arha (same Tenar, more Nameless Ones)

    November 14, 2016 at 11:02 pm

    Is it just me or a lot of people forgetting the gutting of Section 5 of the VRA, strict VoterID laws, and simultaneous closing of polling places, DMV’s, and state records offices in counties with high African American populations?

    Seriously, lack of enthusiasm is a red herring I think. POC knew what was at stake. Why aren’t we talking more about the missing black voters because they had too many roadblocks &/or were turned away at the polls?

    ETA for punctuation & typos

  12. 12.

    Kryptik

    November 14, 2016 at 11:06 pm

    @Tenar Arha (same Tenar, more Nameless Ones):

    Because that would disrupt the narrative that white people were just reasserting themselves after being ignored by the “elites” for so dang long.

  13. 13.

    Cacti

    November 14, 2016 at 11:06 pm

    This election was a racist backlash by middle and upper middle class whites. Period.

  14. 14.

    Omnes Omnibus

    November 14, 2016 at 11:06 pm

    @Tenar Arha (same Tenar, more Nameless Ones): I’ve shouted about voter suppression this time around.

  15. 15.

    Dread

    November 14, 2016 at 11:07 pm

    OT: In the year that just continues to give the suck, I found out today that my old man has stage 3 cancer. Starts chemo this week.

    I’d appreciate your prayers, thoughts, good vibrations, crystal harmonies, or any blood sacrifices to any deity in the nearby vicinity on his behalf, please.

  16. 16.

    Cookie monster

    November 14, 2016 at 11:10 pm

    @Dread: I’m really sorry. Random internet dude send you good wishes and positive thoughts.

  17. 17.

    Sebastian

    November 14, 2016 at 11:13 pm

    Don’t despair! This here is really useful

    How to talk to your member of congress:
    https://storify.com/editoremilye/i-worked-for-congress-for-six-years?utm_source=embed_header

  18. 18.

    Bill E Pilgrim

    November 14, 2016 at 11:13 pm

    Giuliani New Favorite to be Secretary of State

    Oh for Pete’s sake.

  19. 19.

    Mary G

    November 14, 2016 at 11:14 pm

    @Dread: I’ll light a candle.

  20. 20.

    Tenar Arha (same Tenar, more Nameless Ones)

    November 14, 2016 at 11:16 pm

    @Omnes Omnibus: Sorry I missed that. (I admit I’ve been dipping my toes in & out of the stream of comments here & on Twitter. Stopped listening to or reading almost all political news elsewhere. There were a couple days where I’d avoid almost all news except for the OP because too close to rage & sadness tears).

  21. 21.

    Adam L Silverman

    November 14, 2016 at 11:16 pm

    @Dread: We’ll keep good thoughts.

  22. 22.

    Suzanne

    November 14, 2016 at 11:18 pm

    I know it’s from Slate, but I thought this was a good piece on how rural America just tripped on its own dick.

    My in-laws are for real white working class (live in Fayetteville, AR, and own a farm that they just inherited this year when Mr. Suzanne’s grandfather died). No one has a college degree, and they all vote Democratic, every time. They know the score. But whenever we go out to see them, my MIL tries to convince us to move out there, and I just want to vomit. It’s horrible. The built environment is horrible, and I meet all these people who obviously have, well, not plenty of money, but who definitely have more than my in-laws do…..and yet they’re just kind of trashy, but like Trump is trashy with money. Gigantic trucks and long fake nails and it feels like Jersey Shore transplanted to the Ozarks. That is the specific subculture we’re really talking about but don’t have a polite word for yet. We’re calling them “working class” because they’re not professionals or in the service sector in a city, but they aren’t working class the way my in-laws are working class.

  23. 23.

    Omnes Omnibus

    November 14, 2016 at 11:18 pm

    @Tenar Arha (same Tenar, more Nameless Ones): Don’t worry about it (comment-wise). Let’s do something about it in meat space.

  24. 24.

    PaulWartenberg2016

    November 14, 2016 at 11:19 pm

    The Narrative should be not about how POOR Whites voted, it should be about how ANGRY WHITES VOTED.

  25. 25.

    Suzanne

    November 14, 2016 at 11:19 pm

    @Dread: I don’t really,do blood sacrifices, but I will hold you and your dad in my thoughts, and wish for a speedy and painless recovery.

    Hang in there, and come complain here any time.

  26. 26.

    Jeffro

    November 14, 2016 at 11:20 pm

    Total side note: was just reading a WaPo piece about Trump, Pence, and the effect that their “-elect” status is already having on airspace around NYC and wherever the hell in Indianapolis Pence is.

    I know Pence won’t sweat it, but it did make me laugh to thank that the Friendless* Vulgar Yam is going to sweat bullets every night he sleeps in the White House. After all, how many movies have been made about it being blasted to bits, taken over by North Korean commandos, and so on?

    Not to mention I bet he doesn’t enjoy his blessed Tower too well from here forward either. What could be a better target for a fully laden…ah, I’ll let ol DJT’s imagination do the rest.

    *an angle for another day…no wonder the guy can’t staff his own Cabinet with anyone except the most idiotic retreads and hangers-on of all time…not only does he know nothing, he has zero friends who might advise him through this period. I mean, I know he’s not a politician and all, but he doesn’t even have any business friends. It’s him, his kids, and creep-Os like Bannon and Giuliani.

    (edited for mean examples of all the things that are going to make Trump miserable from here on out, all while trying for those precious four hours of sleep…)

  27. 27.

    burnspbesq

    November 14, 2016 at 11:20 pm

    @Tenar Arha (same Tenar, more Nameless Ones):

    No, no one is forgetting Shelby County. But it would be silly to ignore the fact that there have been successful cases brought in North Carolina and Texas under Section 2.

  28. 28.

    El Caganer

    November 14, 2016 at 11:22 pm

    @Bill E Pilgrim: Here’s a video of his first mission abroad: https://youtu.be/Tl_nCufZmz4

  29. 29.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    November 14, 2016 at 11:24 pm

    @Dread: I’d appreciate your prayers, thoughts, good vibrations, crystal harmonies, or any blood sacrifices to any deity in the nearby vicinity on his behalf, please.

    You have my best thoughts and vibrations

    @Suzanne: I know it’s from Slate, but

    I can’t keep track of who’s publishing where, but Slate has always had some good writers among the Slate pitches. Jamelle Bouie and I think Michelle Goldberg are both there now.

  30. 30.

    Mnemosyne

    November 14, 2016 at 11:24 pm

    @Tenar Arha (same Tenar, more Nameless Ones):

    Is it just me or a lot of people forgetting the gutting of Section 5 of the VRA, strict VoterID laws, and simultaneous closing of polling places, DMV’s, and state records offices in counties with high African American populations?

    Don’t forget that Citizen’s United was decided by the Supreme Court just in time to fuck up the 2010 midterms, and the VRA was gutted soon after that.

    But we’re not allowed to point that out, because it undermines the Clinton Bad! Bernie Good! narrative those people are trying to sell.

  31. 31.

    OGLiberal

    November 14, 2016 at 11:25 pm

    @NobodySpecial: In the area of rural PA I’m in most of the time (which also has very mini-urban areas – eg, Scranton/Wilkes-Barre…very white, regardless of urban status) there were a lot of Trump signs outside of the cities. These were rarely on properties with double-wides and trucks on blocks. These were properties with very nice houses and a lot of land, nice land, and not land used for subsistence farming. These are not yeoman farmers, these are folks who are pretty well off….and I think many are not from there originally (or from rural areas at all)….this is based on personal experience.

  32. 32.

    EllenH

    November 14, 2016 at 11:25 pm

    @burnspbesq: yes, but as I understand it those states continued to defy the court’s orders.

  33. 33.

    Emma

    November 14, 2016 at 11:25 pm

    @Dread: Gaah.This bloody year! I am so sorry.

  34. 34.

    Mnemosyne

    November 14, 2016 at 11:26 pm

    @Dread:

    I’m so sorry. I wish you all the best. They can do some pretty amazing things these days.

  35. 35.

    tobie

    November 14, 2016 at 11:27 pm

    @Tenar Arha (same Tenar, more Nameless Ones): Yes, it is disturbing that “the more-Leftist-than-thou ‘progressives’ — including their latest high-profile figurehead,” to use AL’s choice phrase, never bother to acknowledge that this was the first election since the gutting of the Voting Rights Act.

    HRC may have lost the rural white vote for supporting Black Lives Matter, criminal justice reform, the rights of Muslims and Syrian refugees…but it was the right thing to do and showed more courage than anything her primary opponent did in the past year.

  36. 36.

    Adam L Silverman

    November 14, 2016 at 11:29 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: And their legal/law/justice coverage is usually pretty good. Dahlia Lithwich, Judge Posner, his son.

  37. 37.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    November 14, 2016 at 11:32 pm

    Sean Hannity is all hot and bothered because Trump is going to say…. RADICAL ISLAM!

    Jon Favreau ‏@ jonfavs 18m18 minutes ago
    Jon Favreau Retweeted Fox News
    Gonna be a lot of disappointed Trump voters when ISIS doesn’t immediately surrender after hearing those two magic words.

  38. 38.

    Peale

    November 14, 2016 at 11:32 pm

    @tobie: that s wasn’t “triangulating” Clinton that many expected. not that it mattered.

  39. 39.

    Suzanne

    November 14, 2016 at 11:32 pm

    @Suzanne: I should be clear—both Mr. Suzanne and I have master’s degrees (we met in graduate school). Not coincidentally, Mr. Suzanne, unlike his brothers, lives in a city and makes more money, whereas his youngest brother works in a restaurant making pizza.

    I realize that many people there have no desire for city life, but then I also don’t feel any reason to artificially prop up their lifestyle.

  40. 40.

    CaseyL

    November 14, 2016 at 11:35 pm

    @Dread: I am so sorry. It’s a horrible strange feeling when the outer world and the inner world both turn dark at the same time. Best wishes to you and your old man that the treatment is a success.

  41. 41.

    Steve in the ATL

    November 14, 2016 at 11:35 pm

    At least I got out of red state Georgia today for a few days. I’m now in Maricopa County, Arizona. Don’t know much about it but I assume it’s a super liberal place. The sheriff is named Arpaio, so he must be person of color who is highly protective of minorities and their rights!

  42. 42.

    Mary G

    November 14, 2016 at 11:37 pm

    @tobie:

    HRC may have lost the rural white vote for supporting Black Lives Matter, criminal justice reform, the rights of Muslims and Syrian refugees…but it was the right thing to do and showed more courage than anything her primary opponent did in the past year.

    This is me giving you a standing ovation.

  43. 43.

    Adam L Silverman

    November 14, 2016 at 11:38 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: Or disappear.

  44. 44.

    Davis X. Machina

    November 14, 2016 at 11:39 pm

    Tweetstorm, storified, from T. R. Ramachandran @yottapoint

    17A) In summary, there’s SUBSTANTIAL evidence that WWC vote for DJT had far more to do NON-ECONOMIC issues than ECONOMIC one

    17B) There’s solid evidence that Trump WWC support was higher because he amplified anger on white nationalist/race/gender issues

    Data-rich and closely argued. It’s the Cooper Union speech of election post mortems.

  45. 45.

    EllenH

    November 14, 2016 at 11:39 pm

    @tobie: so true. It’s so frustrating that she gets accused of being cautious and calculating.

  46. 46.

    Mnemosyne

    November 14, 2016 at 11:40 pm

    @Steve in the ATL:

    The sheriff is named Arpaio

    Not anymore. The snowbirds finally got tired of paying for his lawsuits.

  47. 47.

    Mnemosyne

    November 14, 2016 at 11:42 pm

    @Mary G:

    Seconded (or thirded). I was very, very proud of the message that Democrats put out into the world this year.

  48. 48.

    rikyrah

    November 14, 2016 at 11:42 pm

    @Dread:
    Sending up positive thoughts and prayers.

  49. 49.

    Tenar Arha (same Tenar, more Nameless Ones)

    November 14, 2016 at 11:43 pm

    @burnspbesq: It’s a couple of the postmortems that are getting to me. With podcasts I subscribe to, I’m thinking of a new, bare minimum, metric: If I don’t hear VRA mentioned as a major factor against turnout in like the first 10-15 minutes of commentary it starts going on my “maybe not listening to you anymore” list. (Then there’s the podcast that’s sitting, waiting for me to gather my fortitude for the emotional roller coaster of hard truths. I’m going to have to calm way down to listen to that one).

  50. 50.

    Cacti

    November 14, 2016 at 11:43 pm

    @Mnemosyne:

    Not anymore. The snowbirds finally got tired of paying for his lawsuits.

    That was the one small good that came from this election.

    The man truly oversaw a reign of terror toward people of Hispanic ancestry.

  51. 51.

    Tony P.

    November 14, 2016 at 11:44 pm

    2008 –black, male Dem runs to replace 2-term Republican; wins
    2012–black, male, incumbent Dem runs for re-election; wins by less
    2016–white, female Dem runs to replace 2-term Democrat; loses

    American voters, half of who are of below average intelligence, routinely re-elect incumbent presidents and then switch to the other party. That is probably the biggest and most implacable of all the truths behind the recent unpleasantness. Also, I suggest that “female” is at least as big a deviation from the presidential norm as “black”, for Real Murkins.

    I know too many well-paid, well-educated white male professionals here in MA who were vociferous Hillary-hating supporters of He, Trump to buy into the “working class” myth too much.

    –TP

  52. 52.

    Steve in the ATL

    November 14, 2016 at 11:44 pm

    @Suzanne: it’s hard to keep track when things keep switching around, but slate has been good lately while salon is just embarrassing.

  53. 53.

    Omnes Omnibus

    November 14, 2016 at 11:44 pm

    @tobie:

    HRC may have lost the rural white vote for supporting Black Lives Matter, criminal justice reform, the rights of Muslims and Syrian refugees…but it was the right thing to do and showed more courage than anything her primary opponent did in the past year.

    If that is what happened, the kudos to her. And then we should be embarrassed as a nation.

  54. 54.

    Lizzy L

    November 14, 2016 at 11:46 pm

    @Dread: Best wishes and good thoughts. Will keep you and your old man (and the medical team!) in prayer.

  55. 55.

    TJ

    November 14, 2016 at 11:47 pm

    @WarMunchkin: The first move is yours, slick.

  56. 56.

    Lyrebird

    November 14, 2016 at 11:47 pm

    @Omnes Omnibus: I know some commenters are working on the voter registration angle. I’d like to know if anyone has suggestions re: How Can One Person Make A Difference on the bloated & unjust prison system, disenfranchisement of people who’ve served their sentences… pretty sure the upcoming administration will roll back that progress on not using private companies for federal prisons.

  57. 57.

    Original Lee

    November 14, 2016 at 11:48 pm

    Lots of Trumpkins posting whiny memes on FB about how they’re so wounded that they’re being called racists and sexist pigs and generally horrible people because they voted for Trump. One of them has been on SSDI for 10 years and because of Obamacare, his wife was able to quit her horrible job that she only kept because of health insurance. Obamacare made it possible for her to follow her passion for quilting, and she now has a thriving business of making custom wall hangings. When he was crowing about how Trump was going to shake things up in DC, I forwarded a story I’d found about how SSDI would be going away, and he was all, Trump doesn’t really mean it. Um, not Trump saying it, dude. He’s not the king. But it doesn’t make any difference to him at all. He stuck it to the man, all right.

  58. 58.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    November 14, 2016 at 11:48 pm

    I’m sure this super-classy move will open up the high society doors Ivanka’s been looking at for so long

    katie rosmanVerified account
    ‏@ katierosman
    Email sent to journalists by an @ IvankaTrump employee, hawking the goods she wore on @ 60Minutes.

    It’s like the Dowager Countess of Grantham has come to life for us!
    ETA: forgot the link, will it post naked?
    https://twitter.com/katierosman/status/798345538236272641

  59. 59.

    Tenar Arha (same Tenar, more Nameless Ones)

    November 14, 2016 at 11:49 pm

    @Omnes Omnibus: Harder when it’s not local, but yeah that’s one of the areas I believe I’ll be looking into helping in “meat space.”

  60. 60.

    Omnes Omnibus

    November 14, 2016 at 11:52 pm

    @Lyrebird: One needs to change things at the state level.

  61. 61.

    Omnes Omnibus

    November 14, 2016 at 11:53 pm

    @Tenar Arha (same Tenar, more Nameless Ones): I know.

  62. 62.

    jl

    November 14, 2016 at 11:55 pm

    @Cookie Monster: I don’t think you can figure it out looking at income levels. Need to look at changes in wealth and income over time for different groups. People vote more on their perceived change in income and status over time than their relative incomes at any given time.

    I have no doubt a lot of Trumpism is bigotry of various kinds. Perhaps the majority of it. But a relatively small to moderate group of generally pissed off people who are not white nationalists who went along may have made the difference. HRC did win the nationwide popular vote, and many of the Midwest states by 1 or 2 percent, IIRC.

    I think voter suppression has to be considered too, for African-Americans, young and old. What worries is how worse it will get with a Trump administration.

  63. 63.

    SFBayAreaGal

    November 14, 2016 at 11:56 pm

    @tobie: She stood by her Christian values and followed the true teachings of Christ unlike the so called evangelicals.

  64. 64.

    greennotGreen

    November 14, 2016 at 11:57 pm

    @Dread: I hope your old man has the good fortune to live near a major cancer center. Large centers tend to get better results.

    I have had wonderful doctors and nurses during my journey through the Big C world, but I urge all patients to speak up if they’re not happy with their care! A lot of progress has been made in cancer treatment recently, and you want to make sure you’re being treated by people who are on top of the latest therapies.

    Good luck!

  65. 65.

    Omnes Omnibus

    November 14, 2016 at 11:57 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: The Dowager Countess was a decent person.

  66. 66.

    Lizzy L

    November 14, 2016 at 11:57 pm

    From The Tablet. The whole thing is very much worth reading.

    Refuse to accept what’s going on as the new normal. Not now, not ever. In the months and years to come, decisions will be made that may strike you as perfectly sound, appointments announced that are inspired, and policies enacted you may even like. Friends and pundits will reach out to you and, invoking nuance, urge you to admit that there’s really nothing to fear, that things are more complex, that nothing is ever black or white. It’s a perfectly sound argument, of course, but it’s also dead wrong: This isn’t about policy or appointments or even about outcomes. This isn’t a political contest—it’s a moral crisis. When an inexperienced, thin-skinned demagogue rides into office by explaining away immensely complex problems while arguing that our national glory demands we strip millions of their dignity or their rights, our only duty is to resist by whatever means permitted us by law.

    http://www.tabletmag.com/jewish-news-and-politics/217831/what-to-do-about-trump

  67. 67.

    Ian

    November 14, 2016 at 11:57 pm

    Somewhat off topic, but for the past eleven years my opening page was bbc news. I had to change that because they leading ten articles have all been about il Douche. Even the Guardian and others have covered this incessantly.

  68. 68.

    Suzanne

    November 14, 2016 at 11:58 pm

    Here is another good piece, this one from Vox, about the rural/urban cultural divide. However, I am unsatisfied with its “answers”.

    I am calming the fuck down—last Thursday, I would probably have punched every kitten in coal country and let all of the Rust Belt DIAF—and I know that it is time for solutions. Ultimately, though, this seems like the same thing: people in rural areas are afraid of the speed of change and we should listen and not tell them how racist they are and stop being smug. However, being smug is really fun and I will need to have some fun for the next four years, and I could listen and listen and listen with empathy, and yet black lives still matter and gay marriage is here to stay and Muslims are all cool, y’all.

  69. 69.

    Lyrebird

    November 14, 2016 at 11:58 pm

    @Omnes Omnibus: Thanks. Sounds like I also ought to join the ACLU. And get some sleep, since me getting underslept and cranky helps the resistance Not One Bit.

    Thanks Omnes and all!

  70. 70.

    schrodinger's cat

    November 14, 2016 at 11:59 pm

    @Ian: I am a news junkie, I haven’t checked any news website since the election.

  71. 71.

    Peale

    November 14, 2016 at 11:59 pm

    I wonder if instead of offering to reduce the cost of college and cancel student debt, we should instead at the local level be promoting financial incentives to allow community colleges to expand extension offices and offer classes at night. That’s one of the issues that doesn’t make sense to me. It’s great to offer support, but you can’t necessarily say that it’s targeted to the working class. Working class people don’t actually have much student debt. They didn’t go to college.

  72. 72.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    November 14, 2016 at 11:59 pm

    credit where it’s due– I’ve seen speculation that this guy could take the Senate seat (Hatch’s) that wee Jacey Chaffetz has his eye, and heart, set on

    Evan McMullin ‏@ Evan_McMullin Nov 13
    Saying “stop it” to racist attacks means little when you name white supremacist darling Steve Bannon chief strategist in the very same day

  73. 73.

    Mary G

    November 15, 2016 at 12:00 am

    OK, it was hard, but I signed up for Issa’s mailing list, so if he ever shows his face in California, I can show up.

  74. 74.

    tobie

    November 15, 2016 at 12:00 am

    @Mnemosyne: Thanks…I’ve been appalled at the viciousness directed toward HRC here and elsewhere and the dismissiveness of some of her bravest moments, and nowhere did this become more apparent to me than when I saw Krystal Ball on Joy Reid’s show this past Saturday. It was as if all the knives she had been holding in reserve since the primary suddenly came out, and in an extended comment remarkable for its hubris she claimed that the Democratic Party is in every way broken as it does not address economic anxiety–I thought this had been a big part of the platform, but whatever–and then suggested we get rid of Nancy Pelosi as House minority leader. Joan Walsh tried to say that this would be throwing the second most powerful Democratic woman under the bus after killing the first but Ball wouldn’t let her get a word in edgewise. It was so ugly. I don’t know why it’s so hard to acknowledge HRC’s courage.

  75. 75.

    BBA

    November 15, 2016 at 12:01 am

    As a white person, I’m ashamed I didn’t recognize that Louis Farrakhan was right about us all along.

  76. 76.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    November 15, 2016 at 12:01 am

    @tobie: Ball was completely unhinged. I never suspected that in her

  77. 77.

    Omnes Omnibus

    November 15, 2016 at 12:03 am

    @BBA: Was he right about you? You can be more than your race.

  78. 78.

    Adam L Silverman

    November 15, 2016 at 12:07 am

    @BBA: That you’re an evil African scientist’s lab experiment that both went wrong and escaped the lab, reproduced out of all proportion, and then turned around and subjugated the descendants of our creators out of a twisted sense of revenge?

  79. 79.

    BBA

    November 15, 2016 at 12:08 am

    @Omnes Omnibus: that’s just it, I don’t think you can.

  80. 80.

    Peale

    November 15, 2016 at 12:08 am

    @tobie: honestly, it really isn’t up to Democrats to decide if Nancy is leader. That’s not done to please us. Never has been that way. She wasn’t chosen to be a sop to women. She’s actually quite good at her job.

  81. 81.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    November 15, 2016 at 12:09 am

    Patton Oswald’s Darker Younger Brother

    Matt Oswald ‏@ MattOswaltVA 7h7 hours ago
    I have the same reaction hearing the words ‘President-elect Trump’ as horses have upon hearing ‘Frau Blücher’

  82. 82.

    BBA

    November 15, 2016 at 12:09 am

    @Adam L Silverman: Take him seriously, not literally.

  83. 83.

    Mary G

    November 15, 2016 at 12:09 am

    @tobie: Hillary said endemic racism in one of the debates, and I think I read that she was the first candidate to say that, which probably doomed her. Still the right thing to do.

  84. 84.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    November 15, 2016 at 12:12 am

    Krystal Ball wants to shank Pelosi and replace her with somebody more Bernie-ish who can speak to the White Working Class so we can reach reachable economically anxious voters like this one (via Cole’s twitter feed):

    NBC NewsVerified account
    ‏@ NBCNews
    Teacher suspended over comments: “Don’t make me call Donald Trump to get you sent back to Africa

  85. 85.

    Adam L Silverman

    November 15, 2016 at 12:12 am

    @BBA: I usually do both.

  86. 86.

    Adam L Silverman

    November 15, 2016 at 12:13 am

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: Krystal Ball is an idiot. She’d be an idiot if she was a guy too.

  87. 87.

    Omnes Omnibus

    November 15, 2016 at 12:13 am

    @BBA: I try to be.

  88. 88.

    Ithink

    November 15, 2016 at 12:18 am

    @Omnes Omnibus:
    Thanks so much and will try to do so! You guys are an absolutely indispensable and fascinating bunch like Crooks & Liars + Media Matters and Hullabaloo and Charlie Pierce @ Esquire are still today, among a highly select other progressive political blogs/media sites. I meant to say “they WEAR THEIR implacable hedonism and other forms of depravity”…not enough descriptors of contempt, I’ll leave it @ that!

  89. 89.

    Mnemosyne

    November 15, 2016 at 12:20 am

    @jl:

    But a relatively small to moderate group of generally pissed off people who are not white nationalists who went along may have made the difference.

    Honestly, I think those are the people who either filled out their ballots without voting for president or who didn’t vote at all. I don’t think anyone who actively voted for Trump is worth our time and effort trying to reach.

    Let’s look at those people before we start trying to adjust ourselves to the wants and needs of white supremacists.

  90. 90.

    greennotGreen

    November 15, 2016 at 12:21 am

    @Suzanne: I tried to read that, but I’m tired of the “urban/progressive people look turn on rural/conservative people and hurt our fee-fees” trope. How about “rural/conservative people think urban/progressive people are degenerate, God- and America- hating traitors, but degenerate people don’t have feelings, so it doesn’t matter.”

    My experience is that the people so afraid of the ebbing away of their privileged status don’t think things through. Take the transsexual bathroom brouhaha. What they seem to want is for their little girls to go the toilet with Chaz Bono and their little boys with Caitlin Jenner. But that’s not the picture in their heads because they just go on the slogan and the emotion and the fear of the other. The kind of people who build on that fear to rise to power are precisely the kind of people who need to be kept as far away from power as possible.

    I’m sorry, but I’m tired of the circular firing squad. We’re not the cowering, racists bigots who voted for Trump.

  91. 91.

    Don K

    November 15, 2016 at 12:21 am

    @Cookie Monster:

    Anecdotes data, but Birmingham, MI (upper-income classic MI Republicans) went from 55/45 Romney/Obama to 42/53 Trump/Clinton. Bloomfield Hills (the super-rich of MI) from 67/33 Romney/Obama to 54/42 Trump/Clinton. Bloomfield Township (upper-income subdivisions rather than the in-town living of Birmingham, and my hometown) from 57/42 Romney/Obama to 46/49 Trump/Clinton. So at least in my local area the upper-income types deserted the Reps in droves. I haven’t run the numbers yet, but I would guess Trump’s best numbers in Oakland County were in the exurban townships populated by the frightened people who would never set foot in Detroit for fear of catching urban cootied, and the largest swing towards Trump from Romney would be in the upper-working-class regions such as Waterford Township.

  92. 92.

    Quinerly

    November 15, 2016 at 12:22 am

    @Lizzy L:
    Thanks for posting. It’s a “keeper” for sure.

  93. 93.

    mike in dc

    November 15, 2016 at 12:22 am

    Kurt Eichenwald weighs in on the “Bernie would have won” thing

  94. 94.

    JordanRules

    November 15, 2016 at 12:27 am

    @Mary G: Standing with you!

  95. 95.

    Villago Delenda Est

    November 15, 2016 at 12:28 am

    Let’s make one thing perfectly clear about these people; they are NOT Christians. Hillary Clinton is a Christian. Barack Obama is a Christian. These are sexually uptight Mammon worshiping scumbags. They are like those Jesus drove from The Temple. They spit on Mark 6:5 and proclaim their false piety to the world as often as they can. They put their own short term greed ahead of the long term survival of the species.

  96. 96.

    Ithink

    November 15, 2016 at 12:31 am

    @tobie:
    Saw this too and I so co-sign this comment and all its adorning sentiments. Krystal Ball was right about more Democrats, both demographic stripe, to make and continue promoting more radicalluly populist a.d progressive platforms to appeal back to our base and new swathes of inactive registered voters to overwhelm the true swamp inhabitants that swan dived into Trumpism! Those mofos will not disavow the Comb over Caligula for impeachment or f*** all anything else. Joan was right to defend Pelosi too because us reserving all our firepower upon allies when there’s a shallow bench to replace them at this time of crisis for Democrats in all government position cross-country is beyond cynical and counterproductive.
    We really WILL be headed towards, God forbid as I type, a Trump landslide in 2020 if we can’t keep all that we have together at this instant and inspire our tens of millions of registered party supporters while embracing new partisan converts. The battle for democracy against neo-fascistic authoritarianism is a sure-fire group and not individual effort. The people vest suited to run for President can and will rise again but patience and solidarity is a must before we can make that a feasible reality. The Republicans can and will no doubt have enough of a shatteted hellscape to mend if Trump starts thrashing in line with the impulses he can only for so long mitigate soon enough! We’ll need to be the Party of Control, Progress and Personal Responsibility when that happens.

  97. 97.

    Mnemosyne

    November 15, 2016 at 12:33 am

    @mike in dc:

    I’d like to think they’ll feel the sting of that, but it will probably only produce more whining. Sigh.

  98. 98.

    Villago Delenda Est

    November 15, 2016 at 12:39 am

    @greennotGreen: They fear the ebbing away of their privileged status because they know it’s not based on actual objective merit. This has been seen again and again through history as those with privilege demonstrate they are unworthy of it and resist change that would put them in a place more appropriate for their, at best, mediocrity.

  99. 99.

    cokane

    November 15, 2016 at 12:40 am

    @Villago Delenda Est: sorry but you dont get to decide who is a Christian. Christian isn’t just a fucking synonym for “morally upstanding”. it’s just a believer in Christ. I swear, this is like people saying ISIS aren’t “real Muslims” as if there’s an actual authority to weigh in on whose baseless bullshit is genuine.

  100. 100.

    cokane

    November 15, 2016 at 12:46 am

    @Don K: yeah definitely looks like Trump lost a big chunk of the National Review crowd. It’s something to build on perhaps.

  101. 101.

    Suzanne

    November 15, 2016 at 12:47 am

    @greennotGreen: Concur. I do think that it is good to discuss, because I don’t think a lot of progressives really understand the fucking seething resentment directed our way. And some of us seem to think that it’s because we weren’t populist enough in tone, or that if we run a candidate who is sufficiently not-close to Wall Street that we’ll win, or whatever. The core of the problem (and I’ve been saying it for months, so I feel prescient) is that that part of the country used to have their lifestyles represented and considered in an aspirational way, and now they do not. The “brand” has changed in a generation. There used to be a lot of positive representations of rural and southern life, past and present, and the people that lived there could see their values reflected back in a positive way. But not it is coastal people and their “New York values”, which of course just means gay or Jewish or hedonistic or all of the above, that set the cultural tone for the country. And we now point and laugh at the people that live in those communities. Honey Boo Boo, 19 Kids and Counting, People of Walmart…..all of which depict rural life as backward and low-class and yucky. And I am just as guilty, and I don’t apologize. I was in rural Idaho a couple of weeks ago for a project interview, and I felt like I had stepped backward in time. I can’t imagine why anyone lives like that. I took a funny picture with their statue of the giant potato. Ironically enjoying their kitsch.

    I really think that Trump tapped a nerve for these folks. He has the tone of a New York construction worker, which I bet feels REALLY GOOD to see reflected back if you are sick of people thinking that the things that you love in life are sucky and shitty. Remember, they don’t like “professionals”, they like business owners, the HBR piece points out.mSo they flipped us a big middle finger.

    I am not sympathetic, because in doing so, they endangered a lot of people I care about. But I do think that we lost this election because we ran a 20th century campaign and Trump ran a 21st century campaign. In this era, all politics is national.

  102. 102.

    Davis X. Machina

    November 15, 2016 at 12:53 am

    @Suzanne:

    And some of us seem to think that it’s because we weren’t populist enough in tone, or that if we run a candidate who is sufficiently not-close to Wall Street that we’ll win, or whatever.

    Watch T.R. Ramachandran blow that up. With charts and everything.

  103. 103.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    November 15, 2016 at 12:57 am

    TRAVERSE CITY, Mich. — A Michigan police officer suspended after flying a Confederate flag from his pickup during a political rally has resigned.
    The Traverse City Record-Eagle reported that Peters was suspended with pay after he was seen Friday driving the pickup with the flag near a group protesting the election of Republican Donald Trump as president. Peters also was seen drinking a beer in a restricted parking zone. He had previously parked the vehicle displaying the flag in the police department’s lot.

  104. 104.

    Mnemosyne

    November 15, 2016 at 12:59 am

    Also, I’m not sure if this has been posted yet but, yes, Comey’s Emily Litella act tipped the scales to Trump. Which is why I am not sanguine that background checks for Trump’s staff are going to be anything more than a formality.

  105. 105.

    cokane

    November 15, 2016 at 1:02 am

    @Mnemosyne: to be fair, close election had multiple decisive factors.

  106. 106.

    Suzanne

    November 15, 2016 at 1:06 am

    @Davis X. Machina: A shit-ton of people voted for a man with no experience, no skills, no discernible policy positions, and AGAINST a woman who had literally the best resume in history, and was actually better for their pocketbooks. He happened to run his campaign on the “mantle of anger”. If you think that that didn’t make all the difference, then I don’t know what to tell you. The vast majority of voters made this decision with their lizard brain. That piece in the Atlantic a few months ago about how voters changed their position on trade en masse to match Trump’s was telling. We need a grand story, a “deep story” for every candidacy. Trump had one, HRC did not,

  107. 107.

    permafrost

    November 15, 2016 at 1:08 am

    Does anyone have a good grasp of how death squads typically get started in countries and where we are on that arc? Asking for a friend.

  108. 108.

    notanevillawyer

    November 15, 2016 at 1:10 am

    The Trumpers aren’t some new phenomenon. In Texas all the republicans just love him. And while many poor folks do vote for them, most of them are middle and upper class. Economic insecurity plus voter suppression may have lost votes in a tight race in the rust belt. Here in the south, Trump has given them what they’ve always wanted. The South has risen. God save us all.

  109. 109.

    permafrost

    November 15, 2016 at 1:13 am

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: How many of these fucking people are on Trump/Putin’s payroll? Jesus MF Christ.

  110. 110.

    Mnemosyne

    November 15, 2016 at 1:14 am

    @cokane:

    Absolutely. Over the last few days, I’ve also mentioned the suppression of minority voters, particularly in WI and MI, that IMO was set up and planned back in 2012. I also think that Russian meddling did enormous damage, especially since the BernieOrBusters picked it up and amplified it uncritically. I think misogyny was a big factor. I think the Republican disinformation campaign successfully made people nervous that a vote for another President Clinton would mean a repeat of the nastiness and endless scandals of the first President Clinton.

    What I don’t think is that people voted against Wall Street, or that Bernie would have won, or that Hillary was a bad candidate. There were a LOT of factors that went into this loss, but I honestly think they all would have bitten us in the ass regardless of who the candidate was, particularly the voter suppression in WI and MI since that was rigged so far ahead of time.

  111. 111.

    Mnemosyne

    November 15, 2016 at 1:18 am

    @Suzanne:

    We need a grand story, a “deep story” for every candidacy. Trump had one, HRC did not,

    Actually, I disagree with you on that, because I can sum up HRC’s grand story in two words: Stronger Together. The people that story didn’t appeal to were the WWC voters. They were voting against that story as much as they were against her personally.

  112. 112.

    RealityBites

    November 15, 2016 at 1:24 am

    I know a Trump voter. She is 64, white, divorced, college educated – estimated income – $55,000. She said she voted for Trump because of GUNZZZZZZ!

    I. just. can’t.

  113. 113.

    Tenar Arha (same Tenar, more Nameless Ones)

    November 15, 2016 at 1:32 am

    This is interesting. Chris Arnade says mapping the opioids epidemic lines up with Trump counties. Which I bet were all mostly in Medicaid refusal states, where treatment coverage & options very few.

  114. 114.

    Villago Delenda Est

    November 15, 2016 at 1:36 am

    @cokane: I invite you, most cordially, to fuck off and die. These people actively deny the core of Jesus’ teachings. They worship Mammon. They will invent all sorts of heretical ways to bypass the Eye of the Needle meme. They worship Moloch…they will happily sacrifice children (see Sandy Hook, and the “truthers” who have hounded the parents of dead children) to keep their deadly firearms toys.

  115. 115.

    divf

    November 15, 2016 at 1:48 am

    @Tenar Arha (same Tenar, more Nameless Ones): I’m in a hotel in a slightly sketchy part of Salt Lake City (here for a huge meeting and trade show, everything closer to downtown booked solid). On the cab ride down here, I saw a billboard with photo of a young man (white), exhorting people to keep Naxalone around because “heroin kills. Prescription drugs kill”.

    I have never seen anything like that before.

  116. 116.

    Goblue72

    November 15, 2016 at 1:56 am

    Not even a week and I see the circle jerk has started. Led by the gray Boomer brigade tag team of Annie and Betty. It’d be funny if it wasn’t so pathetic.

    Dems didn’t just lose this election. They’ve been losing elections for years. Outside the WH, it’s been increasing Dem loses at the state level for years. We had a brief respite when Bush screws up so badly that the country just threw up its hands and handed Pelosi the gavel. Lasted all out of two election cycles before returning to trendline.

    Clinton’s massive screwup is the just the end of a line of fail. But it’s easier to just blame the voters than admit you’re wrong. A lot of voters are gross people personally. So what? You ever spend an afternoon at your local suburban shopping mall and just watch? There’s a metric shit ton of “oh hell NO” in this country. But they vote too. We don’t need to wave a Confederate flag in their face to get their vote. But we don’t need to wave a Rainbow flag in their face to scare them off neither. We do gotta talk to them. Civil like even. Maybe even listen. Because there is no pride in losing. None.

    And when 2018 rolls around and you lose more Senate seats and the GOP win a filibuster proof majority, then what? More head in the sand? More “they suck, I ain’t gonna change”? Whose acting like a deplorable now?

    But yeah, it’s Bernie Sanders fault. The guy who lost the primary. Can’t be 20 years of baggage in a white pantsuit selling the same warmed over DC Dem shit sandwiches.

  117. 117.

    NotMax

    November 15, 2016 at 1:57 am

    @Adam L. Silverman

    Small correction. Krystal Ball is a professional idiot.

  118. 118.

    Goblue72

    November 15, 2016 at 2:07 am

    Also, I don’t know what land you live in, but under $30,000 a year for a household is not working class. It’s poor. That poor people, which skews disproportionately nonwhite, vote Dem solidly is nothing new. The next bracket up is arguably working class, but frankly working class bleeds into the lower of the next bracket after that.

    That popular graph also isn’t scale to size of electorate. The largest group by plurality is the 50k to 99k group. And also, the above is not crosstabbed by race.

    For a more nuanced view –

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/11/10/there-probably-is-no-new-donald-trump-voting-coalition/

  119. 119.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    November 15, 2016 at 2:08 am

    @Goblue72: Led by the gray Boomer brigade tag team of Annie and Betty.

    Hah! Dwight’s got his Fiery Millenial costume on tonight!

    It’d be funny if it wasn’t so pathetic.

    indeed

    You seem testy, Dwight, the boss of Cubicle Row chew you out in front of the other drones? the ones who are all so much younger than you?

  120. 120.

    Eljai

    November 15, 2016 at 2:14 am

    Gray Boomer Brigade Tag Team is the name of my new Jefferson Airplane cover band.

  121. 121.

    cokane

    November 15, 2016 at 2:16 am

    @Villago Delenda Est: love the sanctimony about being a true christian while telling someone to “fuck off and die”, a pitch perfect illustration of what delusional frauds all dungeons & dragons believers are

  122. 122.

    CarolDuhart2

    November 15, 2016 at 2:23 am

    @Suzanne: But when they do racist things, or say racist things, they are racist. Fuck if they can’t deal with change-black people have had to deal all the time without even so much as a verbal reach-around for comfort.

  123. 123.

    Major Major Major Major

    November 15, 2016 at 2:36 am

    Just saw The Handmaiden. It’s good!

  124. 124.

    Villago Delenda Est

    November 15, 2016 at 2:37 am

    @cokane: I’m an apathetic agnostic (I don’t know and I don’t care) about the supernatural aspects of the Abrahamic religions, but it’s very obvious that the most central of Jesus teachings (Love your neighbor as thyself) is totally foreign to white evangelicals nowadays. Jimmy Carter was right to tell Jerry Falwell that Falwell could go to Hell in a very Christian way. Carter had these asshole pegged over a quarter of a century ago.

  125. 125.

    James Powell

    November 15, 2016 at 2:37 am

    @cokane:

    to be fair, close election had multiple decisive factors.

    True. Some of those factors are long term trends. Some are like stormy weather, volatile and unpredictable. Others are like a the director of the most prestigious law enforcement agency in the United States intervening in an election campaign about a week before election day – and while early voting was going on – with a stunt that was deliberately designed to harm one of the candidates even though he had no evidence that that candidate had done anything wrong.

    Treating all these decisive factors as equivalent, or as “shit happens” is the same as saying Comey did nothing wrong.

  126. 126.

    Major Major Major Major

    November 15, 2016 at 2:43 am

    @James Powell: a lot of people like to dismiss Comey, the Russian hackers, voter suppression, etc. as forces of nature that, like the weather, occur at random times, and can’t be blamed for what they do. How convenient that this lets them shoehorn an agenda into the discussion that they would be shoehorning into any conversation about democratic strategy, which just happens to be Bernie Sanders’ stump speech.

  127. 127.

    Tissue Thin Pseudonym

    November 15, 2016 at 3:00 am

    @Davis X. Machina: Jesus, fucking christ Twitter is useless. Is there anywhere to read that essay in a form that is comprehensible?

  128. 128.

    daverave

    November 15, 2016 at 3:01 am

    @OGLiberal:

    I know that folks tend to poo-poo the reading of lawn sign quantity as the worst kind of polling especially when compared to how the pros do it (v. badly) but on my fall cross-country drive from CA to ME to FL to CA there was a definite correlation between the size of the rural house and the size and number of Trump/Pence signs in front of it. The Trump signs in front of the big rural houses were often 4′ x 8′ and sometimes were that big and homemade. Never once saw that for Hillary. This was the case in northern MN, upstate NY, all of NH, and from the Carolinas to FL through the South, Texas of course and Nevada. There were virtually no small towns that had much in the way of Hillary signage other than in VT. On a visceral level I knew that the Dems were in trouble.

  129. 129.

    Major Major Major Major

    November 15, 2016 at 3:08 am

    @daverave: if you drive through the Central Valley in California you’ll learn that Ron Paul won the Republican primary in 2008.

  130. 130.

    Mai.naem.mobile

    November 15, 2016 at 3:12 am

    @daverave: Not saying you aren’t right but,personally, I can tell you I wouldn’t put a Dem bumper sticker on my car because I would be worried about my car being damaged. Same with yard signs.

  131. 131.

    daverave

    November 15, 2016 at 3:19 am

    @Major Major Major Major:

    That’s odd, I live in the Central Valley of California and I can’t remember the last time I saw a Paul sign. Maybe for a year or so after 2008 but he was just another loser obviously. Now State of Jefferson signs do seem to have some longevity but that’s mostly up in the foothills.

  132. 132.

    Dog Dawg Damn

    November 15, 2016 at 3:20 am

    Can we just acknolwedge that the president-elect literally called for a coup in 2012 when Barack Obama won the election?

    It’s all recorded on twitter. For everyone to see. How is this happening?

  133. 133.

    Mai.naem.mobile

    November 15, 2016 at 3:23 am

    I would like to have been a fly at the Obamas ‘ dinner or whatever on Friday after the Trumpies left. I am guessing Barack was complaining to Michelle that he only had experience teaching post grad students, not six year old kids with ADD.Michelle was probably complaining about not understanding Melanomas English and how Melanoma didn’t understand why she was being shown the vegetable garden.

  134. 134.

    daverave

    November 15, 2016 at 3:23 am

    @Mai.naem.mobile:

    Has that happened to you or are you aware of that occurring in your area? I must admit that I live in a super-Dem leaning neighborhood so there is little point in putting out a Hillary (or Obama) yard sign… 80% are already voting Democratic.

  135. 135.

    Major Major Major Major

    November 15, 2016 at 3:25 am

    @daverave: fair point, I haven’t driven down there in a little while I guess. But you know what I mean.

  136. 136.

    Dog Dawg Damn

    November 15, 2016 at 3:37 am

    @daverave: State of jefferson is everywhere outside our small mountain town liberal bubble.

    We made the mistake of going into an outdoors store (read: guns / ammo/ hunting) looking for some camou netting, and the “nice young man” at the counter told us to go to “Aryan Hardware”. We just said “uh, okay” and then left. “Did you hear the same thing I did?” “yup”

    This was in Placerville, FWIW

  137. 137.

    daverave

    November 15, 2016 at 3:37 am

    @daverave: @daverave:

    ETA: Probably 73% would be a more accurate guess assuming the crazification constant.

  138. 138.

    GregB

    November 15, 2016 at 3:38 am

    @CarolDuhart2:

    It is so wierd.

    These Trumpers and their ‘Fuck your feelings’ shirts constantly tell us that their feelings are the only feelings that matter.

    There us this whole creepy response from rightists about how leftists are weak and soft because there are elements that talk about safe spaces etc. Yet day in and day out they tell us that they need safe spaces and that their feelings are hurt because they object to the terms racism, sexism, bigotry.

    Most of them spent 8 years excusing Bush incompetance because he made them feel safe.

  139. 139.

    fuckwit

    November 15, 2016 at 3:38 am

    I’m wearying of this whole thing.

    I’m donating to Planned Parenthood, ACLU, and SPLC.

    I will help wherever I can. I am very sour on electoral politics; the only option that might make me feel empowered is to help the needy directly, rather than to try to elect a government that will do it.

    I am certain that I will soon be burned out on that too, as there will soon be so many more people in need that it’ll be overwhelming and impossible to be of any help there either.

  140. 140.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    November 15, 2016 at 3:40 am

    Trump – Sheer Lunacy.

  141. 141.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    November 15, 2016 at 3:48 am

    That “Fuck your feelings” couple, my thought when I saw it was “So, brother and sister?” I am sure they go into a rage anytime those coastal hipsterss mock them for being fat, dumb and smug.

    But the articles say nothing new, this is the politics of derp and Trump is derp incarnate.

  142. 142.

    agorabum

    November 15, 2016 at 3:58 am

    @Mnemosyne: The uncritical parroting of every right wing smear job and Russian propaganda by the witless far left helped drag Hillary’s poll numbers from 65% approval to the 40s.
    But hey, at least they kept their “principles”. I hope they enjoy them while the country gets fucked for decades by right wing policies.

  143. 143.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    November 15, 2016 at 4:02 am

    @Goblue72: Lovely, so what do you propose to appeal to Your’ Stupid, Lazy Dad demographic? Tell the minorities, who collectively aren’t minorities anyone more, to get to the back of the bus and stop being more successful than Your Lazy, Stupid Dad? Tell the Agnostic majority to shut up with their lack of belief in what Your Lazy, Stupid Dad believes in? Women to screw economic stability for their families and get back in the kitchen and make your Dumb Dad a sandwich? The collage grads to stop being smarter than their dumb, lazy and smug dad? This is the crap Your Stupid Dad is so upset about, it has nothing to do with Democratic policy.

  144. 144.

    WarMunchkin

    November 15, 2016 at 4:21 am

    @RealityBites:

    Even worse:

    Trump won 10 percent of voters who approve of Obama’s presidency and 23 percent of voters who think the next president should “be more liberal,” according to CNN data.

    I just can’t. I am in a shit mood. Like many, I’m sure, it ebbs and flows. Almost approaching one week and it seems both a total joke and far too real. Have we been Zaphod Beeblebrox’d? Is there just a dark council of hooded giants actually running the government?

  145. 145.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    November 15, 2016 at 4:27 am

    @WarMunchkin: Why is this so hard to understand? Trump is experienced conman so he told the marks what they wanted to hear. Trump is already finding out why no politician does this because Trump will have to simultaneously deliver a hard right and hard left policy now he is in office.

  146. 146.

    Kathleen

    November 15, 2016 at 4:28 am

    @Dread: Sending you good thoughts. So sorry to hear that. Please remember to take good care of yourself as well.

  147. 147.

    Kathleen

    November 15, 2016 at 4:31 am

    @Mary G: I join you!

  148. 148.

    Anne Laurie

    November 15, 2016 at 4:41 am

    @Goblue72: If you had any balls, you sad little turd, you’d be out with the other Black Bloc anarcho-kiddies bragging about your BIG PLANS to DISRUPT THE SYSTEM, MAAAAN. But you’re too cowardly, or too lazy, to do anything more challenging than metaphorically gum at the ankles of a bunch of older, consciously non-violent internet commentors — especially the women, for some reason.

    At least it keeps you too busy to torture any more small harmless household pets, for the moment, so there’s that consolation for those of us putting up with you.

  149. 149.

    opiejeanne

    November 15, 2016 at 4:55 am

    @BBA: Didn’t Farrakhan support Trump?

  150. 150.

    Central Planning

    November 15, 2016 at 5:02 am

    We must start asking all Americans to be their better selves.

    That will never work. That will be viewed as elitist or liberal. The people who need to start showing their better selves don’t realize they need to, and they can’t/won’t be convinced otherwise.

  151. 151.

    karen marie

    November 15, 2016 at 5:10 am

    @Steve in the ATL: As an unfortunately-now-probably-terminally-permanent-resident of Maricopa County, you have my sympathy. For a place this close to Mexico, you’d never know it from the dearth of good food. But if you have time, you should definitely visit Ranch Market at lunchtime or snacktime. It is a wonderland.

  152. 152.

    WereBear

    November 15, 2016 at 5:19 am

    There’s something deeply wrong with people who are doing well economically and live in 99% white areas and voluntarily live in a sparsely populated area, and are yet so utterly miserable. This has to be a lifestyle they chose.

    And yet they want their ass kissed for it, too.

    We are not causing them misery. That’s on them.

  153. 153.

    Another Holocene Human

    November 15, 2016 at 5:32 am

    @Cookie Monster: The %age shift you’re seeing is folks under $50K staying home. From those I’ve talked to, they for some reason thought Hilary was both corrupt and not for them. If Hilary had been able to convey the notion that she was for them, as Bernie did, I don’t think they actually would have cared about EMAILS!

  154. 154.

    Another Holocene Human

    November 15, 2016 at 5:33 am

    @WereBear: Fat drunk and stupid is no way to go through life …

    Turns out the philosopher’s “pleasures of the pig” are fleeting after all.

  155. 155.

    Another Holocene Human

    November 15, 2016 at 5:35 am

    @Central Planning: It’s not even really about better selves. Right wing authoritarianism is psychologically tied to two things: a ramped up disgust factor (which probably comes of never rubbing shoulders with anyone unlike them and never trying anything new) and an overactive amygdala. This is where terrorism and such like plays a role. Or the nightly news with its Black bandit of the evening. Fear, fear, fear. It turns ordinary Joes into Republicans.

  156. 156.

    Another Holocene Human

    November 15, 2016 at 5:36 am

    @Anne Laurie: He’s so tedious. For the last years he’s been busy trying to convince us that he’s smarter than Obama. I’ll be totally convinced after a few more impertinent posts, surely….

  157. 157.

    joel hanes

    November 15, 2016 at 5:48 am

    @OGLiberal:

    Matches what I saw in Iowa.
    Many large and well-equipped farm operations with out-and-proud Trump/Pence displays.

    Iowa has the complication of a big fraction of anti-choice religionists, who would never vote for a D because SCOTUS because they’ve been promised Roe would be overturned for lo these thirty years. Those votes were never available to any Dem this cycle.

  158. 158.

    karen marie

    November 15, 2016 at 5:53 am

    @Tissue Thin Pseudonym: Here. Worth a read.

  159. 159.

    Another Holocene Human

    November 15, 2016 at 5:55 am

    @joel hanes: I think Hilary really got the anti-Roe people going. That had to be the sexism at work. For whatever reason Obama didn’t get them as exercised because they felt comfortable staying home b/c Romney was the wrong kind of Christian.

  160. 160.

    Yoda Dog

    November 15, 2016 at 6:08 am

    @WereBear: This describes my parents to a T. I dont know how to handle them.. My wife is having a baby boy this week and they will be there. Its supposed to be a beautiful, wonderful time and all I can think about is how *I’m going/NOT GOING!* to hold my tongue and not disown them.

    Good god, this is so hard.

  161. 161.

    Central Planning

    November 15, 2016 at 6:29 am

    @divf: Supercomputing? Not there, but coworkers are.

  162. 162.

    John not McCain

    November 15, 2016 at 6:56 am

    1963 may be over, but there’s a way we can celebrate the 53rd anniversary of 11-22-63 that would help make America great again.

  163. 163.

    Applejinx

    November 15, 2016 at 6:57 am

    “The electoral map might be realigning to situate Democrats as the representatives of the New Economy and Republicans as the champions of Smokestack industries and their workers. Trump has made it clear that this potential political opposition is real.”

    “But the anxiety and the worry is misplaced. There is no Brexit majority here. The path through the Rust Belt is actually a cul-de-sac, not because Trump lacks appeal with white workers, but because there are so few of them left. Cities aren’t filled with factories and working-class neighborhoods anymore; they’re filled with artist studios, tech startups, coffee bars, and criminalized hyper-ghettos. Latinos have been moving to Chicago, Cleveland, and Milwaukee, but they sure aren’t voting for Trump. White people have been leaving many of these states which has increased the minority share of potential voters. Trump polled at 0% among African-Americans in Ohio during the Republican Convention. The Rust Belt economy has been diversifying. Unemployment in Ohio and Pennsylvania has mostly been below the national average since the financial crisis. Ann Arbor, Madison, Grand Rapids, Toledo, Columbus, Cincinnati, Lansing and others have been increasing in importance. These towns are hubs for tech and pharmaceutical startups, advanced manufacturing, and software engineering.”

  164. 164.

    msdc

    November 15, 2016 at 7:06 am

    @BBA:

    Take him seriously, not literally.

    Taking someone at their word is taking them seriously.

    @opiejeanne: Yes he did. On Alex Jones’ show, I believe: an asshole soufflé.

  165. 165.

    Chris

    November 15, 2016 at 8:20 am

    @Bill E Pilgrim:

    Giuliani New Favorite to be Secretary of State

    According to the TV, it’s either him or Bolton.

    Giuliani would at least be a step up from Newt Gingrich, the guy who wrote a thesis about how Belgian colonization of the Congo was the shit.

    Bolton would be the most blatant possible “fuck you” to the entire world. So he’d fit right in with Trump. Giuliani, oddly enough, is probably the least bad option.

  166. 166.

    Tilda Swinton's Bald Cap

    November 15, 2016 at 8:30 am

    @Chris: These are CleekBalloons. Trial balloons that are sent up to determine which one garners the largest OMFG from liberals. It’s the “Fuck You” presidency.

  167. 167.

    Chris

    November 15, 2016 at 8:30 am

    @tobie:

    HRC may have lost the rural white vote for supporting Black Lives Matter, criminal justice reform, the rights of Muslims and Syrian refugees…but it was the right thing to do and showed more courage than anything her primary opponent did in the past year.

    Not only do I agree with this morally, I agree with it tactically. Like it or not, the Dems’ main (and still growing) base is nonwhite people, and there’s no strategy to victory that doesn’t involve increasing their turnout to the max. That means taking strong stances on civil rights issues. By all means try to find ways to make inroads into low-population states, but only in addition to things like this, not as a substitution for them.

  168. 168.

    Chris

    November 15, 2016 at 8:35 am

    @Suzanne:

    My in-laws are for real white working class (live in Fayetteville, AR, and own a farm that they just inherited this year when Mr. Suzanne’s grandfather died). No one has a college degree, and they all vote Democratic, every time. They know the score. But whenever we go out to see them, my MIL tries to convince us to move out there, and I just want to vomit. It’s horrible. The built environment is horrible, and I meet all these people who obviously have, well, not plenty of money, but who definitely have more than my in-laws do…..and yet they’re just kind of trashy, but like Trump is trashy with money. Gigantic trucks and long fake nails and it feels like Jersey Shore transplanted to the Ozarks. That is the specific subculture we’re really talking about but don’t have a polite word for yet. We’re calling them “working class” because they’re not professionals or in the service sector in a city, but they aren’t working class the way my in-laws are working class.

    Ever read (not just seen) Les Miserables? I remember reading the introductory description of the Thenardier, and it occurred to me at the time that it really, really fit the kind of right winger you’re describing to a tee. The author describes them as existing somewhere in the gray area between the bourgeoisie and the working class, and somehow managing to cumulate all the worst stereotypes of both.

  169. 169.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    November 15, 2016 at 8:42 am

    @Chris: No Newt???? I mean if we’re going to have derp, let it be full derp.

    Suppose Bolton screaming will be pretty dumb in itself.

  170. 170.

    Chris

    November 15, 2016 at 8:56 am

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques:

    Nominating Bolton, who basically doesn’t believe in diplomacy, as the nation’s chief diplomat would be… well, the equivalent of nominating a global warming denier to the EPA. Which they’ve already done.

  171. 171.

    O. Felix Culpa

    November 15, 2016 at 9:13 am

    @Tenar Arha (same Tenar, more Nameless Ones):

    Is it just me or a lot of people forgetting the gutting of Section 5 of the VRA

    Oh no, not at all. I donated as much as I could to VoteRiders precisely because of targeted voter suppression unleashed by the Supreme Court. I know that there were something like 900 fewer polling stations in 2016 compared to 2012. It would be interesting to see research on the impact of these measures. I suspect the lack of major media analysis on the topic is because “pundits” are once again focused on the downtrodden Caucasian males among us, you know, the real Americans.

  172. 172.

    the wesson

    November 15, 2016 at 10:52 am

    I do suppose the white working class does have shock, trauma, and anxiety – mostly from inhaling a lot of Fox News and Inforwars and World Net Daily.

  173. 173.

    Jinchi

    November 15, 2016 at 11:03 am

    While the more-Leftist-than-thou “progressives” —

    Jesus, could we stop with the circular firing squad, already. I don’t know any progressives who are happy about this election. If you want people to get out and vote for you next election, stop treating them like vermin.

  174. 174.

    jeannedalbret

    November 15, 2016 at 12:45 pm

    @Jinchi:

    I agree — this middle-aged WF saw nothing objectionable in the interview A-L linked to, The Democratic primary strengthened our candidate, and I am grateful to the many who made it work.

    What happened to Stronger Together?

  175. 175.

    OGLiberal

    November 15, 2016 at 2:22 pm

    @Another Holocene Human: And yet Trump wanted Marla to abort Tiffany.

  176. 176.

    Ithink

    November 15, 2016 at 10:37 pm

    @Mary G:
    I co-sign that. And don’t let any member of either party the now majority Republicans whom are already racial, ethnic, religious and gender chauvanists or any Third Way, moderate, conservative-lite Democrat and the perpetually clueless media hordes write any other sort of narrative regrdgHillary on THIS. Its for all-time! Plus, its key to her being the popular vote victor. They’re still the ascendant coalition we have the overwhelming support of and will continue to in future elections!

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