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You are here: Home / Politics / Trumpery / Hail to the Hairpiece / Wednesday Evening Open Thread: Why Do Democrats Always Have to Be the Grown-Ups?

Wednesday Evening Open Thread: Why Do Democrats Always Have to Be the Grown-Ups?

by Anne Laurie|  November 16, 20164:35 pm| 104 Comments

This post is in: Hail to the Hairpiece, Open Threads, Proud to Be A Democrat

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I say to Donald Trump: take responsibility.

Rise to the dignity of the office instead of hiding behind your Twitter account.

Fire Bannon.

— Senator Harry Reid (@SenatorReid) November 15, 2016

I know, I know — because we sure as hell can’t count on the Republicans, and that was true long before Lord Smallgloves became President-Elect. At least there’s some comfort in knowing that someone will step up. From the Washington Post:

Justice Sonia Sotomayor reacted carefully to Donald Trump’s election Tuesday night, saying that the country can’t afford for a president to fail and, also, “we can’t afford to despair.”

Sotomayor was cautious in answering a question from Bill Press, a liberal commentator and talk show host who interviewed her at the Hill Center on Capitol Hill.

Press said he needed to address the “800-pound gorilla in the room” and asked Sotomayor: “Are you in any way apprehensive about what happened in this nation last Tuesday?”

“I’m going to demur from answering that question that way,” said Sotomayor, 62, a liberal nominated by President Obama in 2009. “I will answer it in a different way, which is I think that this is the time where every good person has an obligation both to continue being heard and to continue doing the right thing.”…

“But we can’t afford to despair, and we can’t afford to give up our pursuing of values that we and others have fought so hard to achieve. And so for me, this is a challenge. So I’m going to continue doing what I think is the right thing. That’s the challenge we all have to face.”…

***********

Apart from steeling ourselves, what’s on the agenda for the evening?

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Reader Interactions

104Comments

  1. 1.

    Kryptik

    November 16, 2016 at 4:47 pm

    As always, GOP thinks gov’t is a goddamn game of RISK, and when they lose, they “misplace” the other pieces to give themselves the advantage. And mom tells you to indulge him lest he shit the floor in a tantrum. And if he does, she blames you for inciting him.

  2. 2.

    Corner Stone

    November 16, 2016 at 4:48 pm

    I plan to use the word neoliberal in just about every form and style imaginable. I figure no one who uses it here knows what it means, so might’s well.

  3. 3.

    Gin & Tonic

    November 16, 2016 at 4:49 pm

    @Corner Stone: Only if you say “fuck neoliberals, fuck them in their stupid ass.”

  4. 4.

    Corner Stone

    November 16, 2016 at 4:50 pm

    @Gin & Tonic: I say spatchcock to that neoliberal suggestion!

  5. 5.

    WereBear

    November 16, 2016 at 4:51 pm

    Why Do Democrats Always Have to Be the Grown-Ups?

    Sigh. Because the republicans have refused to :)

  6. 6.

    WereBear

    November 16, 2016 at 4:52 pm

    Some of us have set up a blog where people can share their stores about how they need their Obamacare, Medicare, and Medicaid and CHIP programs.

    Could Happen to You

    Please join us.

  7. 7.

    Corner Stone

    November 16, 2016 at 4:53 pm

    Has Trump yet come out and forcefully told his followers they must, in all decency and for the good of the country, stop all vandalism and hateful acts against their fellow citizens of this country?

  8. 8.

    Laura

    November 16, 2016 at 4:55 pm

    Right now both the WP and NYT are gaslighting their own coverage from yesterday about the Trump transition by pasting the news of his whining tweets as their top story with giant headlines and treating those pathetic tweets as the serious news of the day. They don’t give much pushback, they are letting Trump write their headlines.

    Don’t know what else to type, it’s all overwhelming. I’m another longtime lurker feeling the sense of dread/doom (and that maybe I’m a sucker for my new WP subscription.)

  9. 9.

    Kryptik

    November 16, 2016 at 4:55 pm

    @Corner Stone:

    He was on CBS and told them “Stop it.” And press actually covered it and asked if it would be enough, like it was a real question.

  10. 10.

    Jim Pharo

    November 16, 2016 at 4:58 pm

    Why do Republicans have to be children?

  11. 11.

    Timurid

    November 16, 2016 at 4:58 pm

    We can’t afford for this President to succeed.

  12. 12.

    Corner Stone

    November 16, 2016 at 4:59 pm

    @Laura: This is the playbook. It is so obvious it screams “Drop in a quarter and Play Me!”
    The Trump team is dropping every name in the book as possible whatsis. The media dutifully type it up and hit Send. As is, with no reporting, research or thought. The Trump admin then says, “The media is so dishonest! That was never the thing that was going to happen!”
    Trump’s team could leak that Krusty The Klown was going to be SecDef and the media would simply send that out as if it were reality. Actual news.
    Trump is destroying whatever mild little bit of nugget of usefulness the media have ever possessed. He is turning them into fossilized shit.

  13. 13.

    sukabi

    November 16, 2016 at 5:00 pm

    @Corner Stone: no, but he said he thinks it’s a problem of the media amplifying incidents, but if it is true “Stop it.”

    How’s that for taking responsibility?

  14. 14.

    Corner Stone

    November 16, 2016 at 5:02 pm

    So, we’re about to get a 30 minute news cycle that Russia actually did want to tilt the neoliberal election in one way.
    And then? Memory hole, baby!

  15. 15.

    Chris

    November 16, 2016 at 5:03 pm

    The Democrats are expected to be responsible for

    1) Repairing the extensive damage caused to the machinery of government by years of conservative governance.

    2) Performing all of the routine and ordinary acts of maintenance that allow the machinery of government to keep operating day to day.

    3) Anticipate, plan for, and execute all of the necessary upgrades and expansions to the machinery of government that’re necessary to keep up with the changes of the world it operates in.

    All while the hooligans are still pelting said machinery with molotov cocktails and preventing the works at gunpoint from going where they need to go.

    It’s simply too much work for one party to do, especially when that party starts off at a handicap facing the other one even at the best of times.

  16. 16.

    Chris

    November 16, 2016 at 5:04 pm

    @Jim Pharo:

    Wrong analogy. The better analogy I keep hearing is the abusive parent vs. the parent trying to hold it together for the sake of the children.

  17. 17.

    Corner Stone

    November 16, 2016 at 5:04 pm

    Apparently, WJC’s WH transition and Trump’s transition are exactly equal.

  18. 18.

    sukabi

    November 16, 2016 at 5:04 pm

    @Corner Stone: you’re giving drumpf credit for something that was 99% cooked already. Media has been pretty much worthless in any meaningful way for the last 20+ years.

  19. 19.

    Corner Stone

    November 16, 2016 at 5:05 pm

    @sukabi: Very, very Presidential.

  20. 20.

    Botsplainer

    November 16, 2016 at 5:06 pm

    So here in the People’s Democratic Soc!alist Kenyan Shariah Republic of Louisville, the Party bucked the tide of stupid and increased its Democratic numbers in Frankfort. The bad part is that Kentucky Democrats got shellacked on a statewide basis, leaving Kentucky’ s TeamD with two bases, one in Lexington and one in Louisville. This city is about to get stripped bare and suffer a lot of conservative stupid. Already, we only get back 50 cents on every revenue dollar shipped to Frankfort. The GOP plans to choke down any local option on increasing taxes for local govt and services, and a lot of home rule provisions will get stripped, particularly affecting gay rights. We’re going to see some North Carolina style bills, and a lot of social services privatized to Evangelicals.

    At the same time, spouse’s company, the one that catered to an upper class clientele and enabled access to some really preferred boutique travel providers and 6 weeks paid vacation (while being VERY profitable) just got sold to the equivalent of Trump Steaks. It provided her with a 6 figure income.

    I think we need to radically readjust to an affordable blue city in a purple to blue state. Can anybody tell me anything about ABQ?

  21. 21.

    NotMax

    November 16, 2016 at 5:06 pm

    @Corner Stone

    The press coprolite corps.

  22. 22.

    Felanius Kootea

    November 16, 2016 at 5:07 pm

    OT: The New York Times has this opinion piece on Republican Falsehoods About Obamacare.

    Paul Ryan, for instance, said on on Fox News on Thursday, that “because of Obamacare, Medicare is going broke.” That statement is false. According to the Medicare trustees, cost controls in the A.C.A. are one of the reasons that the system’s hospital trust fund is projected to remain solvent through 2028 — 11 years longer than before the A.C.A. was enacted.

    A similar claim by critics of the A.C.A. is that the law is driving up the cost of employer-provided insurance, which covers 154 million people. A new study by the Commonwealth Fund, which compares costs in the five years before and after 2010, when the A.C.A. was enacted, rebuts that claim.

    Every year, during the open enrollment period, when health insurance premiums go up at my workplace, I’ve noticed that there is a statement blaming this on Obamacare: “…Healthcare Reform (aka the Affordable Care Act) is increasing the cost of providing benefits at …” even though we often had premiums go up in the years before the A.C.A. I wonder how many people receive statements like this across the country and are for the ACA repeal as a result, thinking their premiums will go down?

  23. 23.

    SiubhanDuinne

    November 16, 2016 at 5:07 pm

    How often does a new administration roll into town and literally refuse to take advice from, consult with, or even talk to the current administration. I mean, even the GWB folks at least met and talked with their opposite numbers, never mind that they subsequently ignored pretty much everything they had learned.

    But this lot won’t even return calls from State and Defense (probably other departments too). NOT NORMAL, NOT NORMAL, NOT NORMAL.

  24. 24.

    Kryptik

    November 16, 2016 at 5:07 pm

    @NotMax:

    The pressed corpse.

  25. 25.

    gene108

    November 16, 2016 at 5:11 pm

    @WereBear:

    Can we link this on our Facebook timelines?

  26. 26.

    NotMax

    November 16, 2016 at 5:11 pm

    @Felanius Kootea

    “That statement is false.”

    Would the NYT had printed that in 60-point boldface.

  27. 27.

    Chris

    November 16, 2016 at 5:11 pm

    @Felanius Kootea:

    Yep, this is exactly what the only Trump voter I’ve talked to since last Tuesday said. “But premiums are going up! It’s unsustainable!” As if they hadn’t been going up for years before the ACA, to the point that, before the ACA, health insurance crises were the number one reason for bankruptcy.

  28. 28.

    SiubhanDuinne

    November 16, 2016 at 5:14 pm

    @SiubhanDuinne:

    I don’t know why I don’t have permission to edit my own comment, but what I should have written was “their opposite numbers from the outgoing Clinton administration.”

    Serious, albeit O/T question: why can we sometimes edit our comments with no problems, and other times get that officious “You Do Not Have Permission To Edit This Comment” line? No change in device or anything.

  29. 29.

    Mnemosyne

    November 16, 2016 at 5:14 pm

    @Kryptik:

    If he couldn’t be arsed to tweet his “stop it” message, he clearly didn’t mean it.

  30. 30.

    Archon

    November 16, 2016 at 5:15 pm

    If I was advising Trump (political thought experiment, wouldn’t do it for all the money in the world), I’d let Paul Ryan and the radical conservatives get comfortable with the idea of privatizing Medicare and shrinking government, then I’d advise Trump to double cross Paul Ryan and come out with a budget keeping Medicare as it is, making superficial changes to Obamacare (and renaming it Trumpcare) and come out with a MASSIVE deficit financed infrastructure bill (call it making American great again Act. Then I’d dare anyone, left, right, and center to oppose it.

    Trump’s argument to the left needs to be, “you may hate me and the way I got here, but I’m all that’s standing between you, and conservative’s repeal of the Great society and New Deal”. I’m not sure that will work but if he governs as a hard-right movement conservative and actually agrees with privatizing Medicare he will be in the low 30’s approval rating by next March.

  31. 31.

    Botsplainer

    November 16, 2016 at 5:17 pm

    @SiubhanDuinne:

    I think this is how you erase the legitimacy of the Obama Administration. January 22, fat camo cap and old rednecks will swarm Federal offices while shouting “yer fired” in some shitmouth drawl.

  32. 32.

    Botsplainer

    November 16, 2016 at 5:19 pm

    @Felanius Kootea:

    Chuck Todd says “not our job”.

  33. 33.

    The Moar You Know

    November 16, 2016 at 5:21 pm

    I wonder how many people receive statements like this across the country and are for the ACA repeal as a result, thinking their premiums will go down?

    @Felanius Kootea: Our insurance broker sent out a letter the day after the election assuring us that this was in fact what was going to happen. Our CEO believed them. Showed it to me gleefully (I’m the token office liberal IT overlord who can’t be fired because I’ve testified in court for this company and know where all the dirt is). I told her to hang on to it when we got our inevitable increase. Maybe she could make the broker eat the difference. She left while I was still laughing.

    Yes, I do not give a shit if I get fired. They know it’d be free income for the rest of my life if they did.

  34. 34.

    Ben Cisco

    November 16, 2016 at 5:24 pm

    @Corner Stone: @Gin & Tonic: @Corner Stone: I haven’t read the threads today, but I’m getting the distinct feeling that I missed something…

  35. 35.

    SenyorDave

    November 16, 2016 at 5:24 pm

    @Archon: I think he’s going do something along these lines. I think he’ll screw the Republicans ultimately, but I also think he’ll screw the poor somehow because that is always popular in this country.

  36. 36.

    jacy

    November 16, 2016 at 5:25 pm

    @WereBear:

    I submitted my story. Thanks!

  37. 37.

    The Ancient Randonneur

    November 16, 2016 at 5:33 pm

    Nothing quite like getting rid of Clinton and Bush dynastic politics by electing Trump so he can bring in Uday, Qusay, Ivanka and Jared to clean house.

    Speaking of Bannon this sounds like some of his handiwork:

    Kansas Secretary of State Kris Kobach, who helped write tough immigration laws in Arizona and elsewhere, said in an interview that Trump’s policy advisers had also discussed drafting a proposal for his consideration to reinstate a registry for immigrants from Muslim countries.

  38. 38.

    MomSense

    November 16, 2016 at 5:35 pm

    @Corner Stone:

    My dog ate a block of cheddar cheese and had a bad bout of neoliberal. I couldn’t even scoop it.

  39. 39.

    Corner Stone

    November 16, 2016 at 5:38 pm

    @MomSense: That sounds even more unpleasant than when my clematis was blooming recently.

  40. 40.

    Corner Stone

    November 16, 2016 at 5:47 pm

    Chuck Todd is neoliberally obsessed with how Clinton is nowhere to be found in public politics right now.

  41. 41.

    Hungry Joe

    November 16, 2016 at 5:49 pm

    Collateral damage: I like the word “shitgibbon” for Trump, but gibbons are, in fact, spectacularly acrobatic and very cool little apes.

  42. 42.

    trollhattan

    November 16, 2016 at 6:09 pm

    @Corner Stone:
    Good god. First it’s Obama should rend garments during every appearance and now Hillary has to come BACK into the adoring media’s eye? Fuck that noise; she’s already given her country more than 99.9999% of y’all. Going for the last .0001?

  43. 43.

    rikyrah

    November 16, 2016 at 6:12 pm

    @WereBear:
    Thanks for this

  44. 44.

    Mnemosyne

    November 16, 2016 at 6:15 pm

    Amusing (to me) that popped up on Facebook: the pilot on an airliner had to get on the intercom and tell everyone to settle down after some Trump jackass made a Black lady cry.

    I don’t think he used the actual words, Don’t you kids make me turn this plane around! but it sounds like he came close.

  45. 45.

    Ksmiami

    November 16, 2016 at 6:17 pm

    @Botsplainer: good city has a share of crime and poverty but is the true west 2 hours to tAos etc. New Mexico is my favorite state

  46. 46.

    smintheus

    November 16, 2016 at 6:26 pm

    the country can’t afford for a president to fail

    How did so many idiots get this self-refuting idea? We can’t afford for a president with unAmerican plans to succeed. It’s just a question of whether Trump’s plans are as unAmerican as he makes them out to be.

  47. 47.

    Ksmiami

    November 16, 2016 at 6:27 pm

    @Felanius Kootea: if it helps I have it on pretty good authority that Paul Ryan had a tete a tete with a gay male prostitute… gonna get the details: stay tuned

  48. 48.

    humboldtblue

    November 16, 2016 at 6:35 pm

    Pokey LaFarge provides a nice distraction with his latest beaut.

    I gave my older sister a heads-up, she loves that I turned her on to LaFarge and she said she needed the lift. She’s the motherfucking awesome matriarch of a small tribe of brilliant, beautiful, smart, engaged, empathetic, compassionate absurdly clever and wonderful people. My immediate and badass clan has it all, goddammit, — Jew, black, Asian, gay, rich, poor country and city — and that’s why this shit hurts so motherfucking much.

    My nephew in-law is a black man in West Virginia married to a white woman who after five years busting his ass to get his full teacher credential works at a school where it someone thought it was OK to post a flier reminding white girls to not marry niggers. I am choking with rage, literally. This is not good.

  49. 49.

    lamh36

    November 16, 2016 at 6:36 pm

    @asnoel
    Richard Engel just said on NBC that some generals are reading the Constitution to determine their authority to override the President. Wow.
    12:37 AM – 9 Nov 2016

    I don’t have cable and gave up cable news a while ago…has Engel said anything new?

  50. 50.

    Lizzy L

    November 16, 2016 at 6:46 pm

    @lamh36: This sounds suspect to me. Civilian control of the military is baked in, according to my military buds. OTOH, there must be a mechanism somewhere for What To Do if the Commander in Chief goes suddenly batshit, or is revealed to be in the pay of a foreign government. Can the CinC be declared incompetent? We need Adam.

  51. 51.

    lamh36

    November 16, 2016 at 6:48 pm

    @Lizzy L: I’m gonna repost it on Adam’s next thread…I think he’d likely know and give us a LONG READ about it..lol

  52. 52.

    weaselone

    November 16, 2016 at 6:49 pm

    @Corner Stone:

    Fuck Chuck Todd. Hillary is probably going to stick it out and stand for a show trial in a handful months partially because the bulk of our media as useful to our democracy is as a fucking infestation of tapeworms. She deserves to spend the time between now and then playing with her grandchild, hiking with her dogs and getting plastered. Fuck Chuck Todd.

  53. 53.

    lamh36

    November 16, 2016 at 6:50 pm

    @JamilSmith
    Toni Morrison in @NewYorker, laying waste to white fragility after the election of Donald Trump. Read every word.

    The entire article from Toni Morrison here:

    Making America White Again via @newyorker

  54. 54.

    lamh36

    November 16, 2016 at 6:52 pm

    @Dodgers
    Gotta love #VIN. Here’s @WhiteHouse @PressSec calling Vin Scully to let him know he’s a recipient of the Presidential Medal of Freedom.

  55. 55.

    Lizzy L

    November 16, 2016 at 6:53 pm

    According to TPM, Lindsey Graham and Orrin Hatch are now praising the filibuster for judicial appointments, and stating flatly they don’t want it changed.

    We now live in a world in which these two men become a bulwark against the death of democracy. Hoo boy.

  56. 56.

    WarMunchkin

    November 16, 2016 at 6:56 pm

    Question: Who the heck is the actual constituency for Medicare privatization? I don’t know anyone actually dissatisfied with the program, and nobody capable of doing arithmetic claims Medicare is fiscally insolvent. Usually in politics, things get passed to satisfy actual power blocs of some kind – so where is the one for this change that actually has a vote?

  57. 57.

    bmoak

    November 16, 2016 at 6:56 pm

    @The Ancient Randonneur:

    Just remember: Frank Gaffney, the man whose Islamophopia is so extreme that he was banned from CPAC for several years, is part of the Trump transition team.

  58. 58.

    goblue72

    November 16, 2016 at 6:57 pm

    @weaselone: Yeah, but using whose wang? Dana Milbank’s?

  59. 59.

    Roger Moore

    November 16, 2016 at 6:57 pm

    @Archon:

    if he governs as a hard-right movement conservative and actually agrees with privatizing Medicare he will be in the low 30’s approval rating by next March.

    I don’t think he cares. As long as he gets all the attention he wants and a chance to loot the treasury, he won’t give a fuck about his approval rating.

  60. 60.

    goblue72

    November 16, 2016 at 6:59 pm

    @WarMunchkin: Rich dudes who don’t need Medicare but want the tax cuts that could be financed by cutting Medicare. And whatever insurance companies that would benefit from getting subsidies for selling shitty Medicare policies.

  61. 61.

    NotMax

    November 16, 2016 at 6:59 pm

    Pertinent section of the 25th amendment regarding competency/disability:

    Section 3. Whenever the President transmits to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives his written declaration that he is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, and until he transmits to them a written declaration to the contrary, such powers and duties shall be discharged by the Vice President as Acting President.

    Section 4. Whenever the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive departments or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall immediately assume the powers and duties of the office as Acting President.

    Thereafter, when the President transmits to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives his written declaration that no inability exists, he shall resume the powers and duties of his office unless the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive department or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit within four days to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office. Thereupon Congress shall decide the issue, assembling within forty-eight hours for that purpose if not in session. If the Congress, within twenty-one days after receipt of the latter written declaration, or, if Congress is not in session, within twenty-one days after Congress is required to assemble, determines by two-thirds vote of both Houses that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall continue to discharge the same as Acting President; otherwise, the President shall resume the powers and duties of his office.

    Interestingly, in such a case when the veep becomes Acting President, there is no oath required or administered* and the majority interpretation is that the veep continues as president of the Senate as he/she has not fully assumed the actual office of the presidency.

    *or anyone else in the line of succession should circumstances dictate that situation

  62. 62.

    weaselone

    November 16, 2016 at 7:00 pm

    @goblue72: With this.

  63. 63.

    Roger Moore

    November 16, 2016 at 7:01 pm

    @lamh36:
    I would guess they’re trying to decide what to do if/when Trump gives them unconstitutional orders.

  64. 64.

    NotMax

    November 16, 2016 at 7:02 pm

    #61 was meant to be @Lizzy L

  65. 65.

    weaselone

    November 16, 2016 at 7:05 pm

    @WarMunchkin:

    I’m assuming that it’s insurance companies that offer crappy insurance, probably also some pharmaceutical and medical supply companies that have the prices for their products negotiated down significantly by medicare.

  66. 66.

    goblue72

    November 16, 2016 at 7:07 pm

    @weaselone: I can get behind that proposal.

  67. 67.

    lamh36

    November 16, 2016 at 7:25 pm

    Do yourselves a favor…if you are feeling down. Google clips the final White House performances that aired on BET. If you saw SNL last Saturday, Dave Chappelle referenced it (he mentioned seeing this sea of Black faces…and Bradley Cooper for some reason…lol). You can find clips on twitter with the hashtag #ThankYouObama

    It will at once make your day, and also maybe make you sad cause I can almost guarantee the gathering of that many Black folks under the roof of the White House won’t be happening anytime again in the next 4 years…maybe next lifetime (other than maybe servants, who you wont’ see visibly under President Cheeto I’m sure…ugh).

    Anyway, here’s a GIF: @NerdyWonka
    Go on with yer bad self, President Barack Obama.
    Go President, that’s MY President.

    And one of the stand out performances, of which there were many: @Kingwole
    Common and Yolanda Adams delivered a breathtaking performance of “Glory”.
    So beautiful! #ThankYouObama

  68. 68.

    Mnemosyne

    November 16, 2016 at 7:35 pm

    @Lizzy L:

    Having read many of Adam’s very long posts, I suspect what they’re trying to do is figure out if they have standing to disobey orders, not overthrow him. But I third the idea of having Adam explain it to us.

  69. 69.

    Mnemosyne

    November 16, 2016 at 7:37 pm

    @WarMunchkin:

    The Koch brothers. And Pete Peterson. So, basically, it’s three guys with billions of dollars trying to overrule the rest of us.

  70. 70.

    Lizzy L

    November 16, 2016 at 7:37 pm

    @NotMax: Thanks. It would not surprised me at all to find this section of the Constitution applied sometime in the next 4 years.

  71. 71.

    Lizzy L

    November 16, 2016 at 7:45 pm

    @lamh36: That was amazing. Tears in my eyes.

  72. 72.

    Jeffro

    November 16, 2016 at 7:45 pm

    @Chris: that is exactly right … and sometimes the responsible parent either has to flee with the children or knock the abusive parent upside the head with a baseball bat

  73. 73.

    Jeffro

    November 16, 2016 at 7:46 pm

    @Botsplainer: come to most any of the college towns in Virginia or Northern Virginia itself … NoVA is expensive but the rest of the state is not and you will find yourself in wonderful intelligent company

  74. 74.

    Jeffro

    November 16, 2016 at 7:47 pm

    @Felanius Kootea: I know, right? Because until Obamacare happened premiums never went up and coverage was awesome.

  75. 75.

    WarMunchkin

    November 16, 2016 at 7:47 pm

    @goblue72: Retired rich dudes probably aren’t paying payroll or income taxes to finance Medicare, right? And at least part A is financed primarily through a nominal payroll tax; I know they could cut part B, C, D if they want tax cuts, I guess.

    @weaselone: Why would insurance companies want this? Isn’t that an impossible adverse selection trap?

  76. 76.

    Jeffro

    November 16, 2016 at 7:48 pm

    @NotMax: don’t worry they will catch on by their last or next to last edition

  77. 77.

    WereBear

    November 16, 2016 at 7:51 pm

    @gene108: sure! Thanks!

  78. 78.

    HelloRochester

    November 16, 2016 at 8:17 pm

    Being “the grownups” was what got us a kind and devoted candidate who we all knew was the only person Donald Trump could possibly beat. And (I’m a big fan of all 3, so save your fake outrage) now we’ve decided Senator Professor Warren, Bernie, and Keith Ellison are the new faces of the party because outreach (to whom?) and at the same time hand minority leader to Chuck Schumer. And I’m still getting emails from Donna fucking Brazile. What in the actual fuck?

  79. 79.

    Raven Onthill

    November 16, 2016 at 8:17 pm

    Because the Democrats are the mommy party, and mommy always forgives her wayward sons, doesn’t she? Even when they sets fire to the house, right?

    We talk a lot about the loss of this election, and somehow we forget the huge weight of sexism that it was freighted with.

  80. 80.

    Major Major Major Major

    November 16, 2016 at 8:22 pm

    ok, this new guy is definitely a markov generator. ^^

  81. 81.

    weaselone

    November 16, 2016 at 8:23 pm

    @WarMunchkin:

    I’m assuming that they want it for the same reason they wanted medicare advantage. They think that they’ll make money serving the healthiest segment of the market and don’t care what happens to the rest. The difference being instead of having medicare to fall back on, the sicker cadre of elderly won’t be able to afford policies even with the premium support, so they’ll go without.

  82. 82.

    Roger Moore

    November 16, 2016 at 8:25 pm

    @NotMax:
    Section 4 of the 25th Amendment is badly written. In addition to not dealing with whether the VP should continue as president of the Senate while acting President, it really ought to consider what happens if the President is permanently incapacitated, e.g. by a devastating stroke. Article II already suggested that the President could lose his power if he became unable to discharge the duties of his office, so by providing only for temporary incapacity, Section 4 of the 25th actually muddies the waters rather than clarifying them. Since Congress already has the power to remove the President permanently by impeachment- and with a slightly easier to meet standard than the 2/3 of each house mentioned in the 25th- it wouldn’t really be adding much to their power, just giving them one more legitimate grounds for removing the President from office.

    ETA: Should have looked more carefully at the other point. Article I, Section 3 says the VP should not be President of the Senate “when he shall exercise the Office of President of the United States”, which seems to me to cover the event of him acting as President under the 25th Amendment.

  83. 83.

    Raven Onthill

    November 16, 2016 at 8:27 pm

    Just by the way, “It’s the Sexism, Stupid!”: http://adviceunasked.blogspot.com/2016/11/its-sexism-stupid.html

  84. 84.

    lamh36

    November 16, 2016 at 8:33 pm

    @ChadPergram
    Schumer: There’s a debate going on about whether we should be a party of diverse Obama coalition or blue collar heartland.

    “diverse” coalition…(cough…colored folks…cough)…

    I mean there are black and brown blue collar workers Chuck…

  85. 85.

    Corner Stone

    November 16, 2016 at 8:36 pm

    @HelloRochester: Bleep Blop Bloop.

  86. 86.

    West of the Rockies (been a while)

    November 16, 2016 at 8:38 pm

    @Corner Stone:

    Enough of your jiggery-pokery, sir and/or madame.

  87. 87.

    BBA

    November 16, 2016 at 8:39 pm

    @Roger Moore: Getting section 4 invoked is probably Trump’s preferred scenario. He gets to be president without having to do any of that annoying work.

    If he’s impeached and removed before two years are up, he gets to run again in 2020 and 2024.

  88. 88.

    Roger Moore

    November 16, 2016 at 8:49 pm

    @BBA:

    If he’s impeached and removed before two years are up, he gets to run again in 2020 and 2024.

    If he’s impeached before 2 yeas are up, it will necessarily involve many members of the Republican Congress. They aren’t going to do that while still in fear of Trump’s fans in the next election. That means it’s not going to happen until/unless Trump fails so publicly and spectacularly that he’d have no chance of coming back. It’s an interesting scenario, but not one we need to spend a lot of time thinking about.

  89. 89.

    WarMunchkin

    November 16, 2016 at 9:08 pm

    @lamh36: Por que no los dos?

  90. 90.

    Jeffro

    November 16, 2016 at 9:14 pm

    Folks, Trump is not getting impeached no matter what he does…Ryan & Co will promise him a nice easy life if he’ll just keep signing their bills. In return, they’ll let him do the ranty thing for at least four years and give him a little of what he wants.

    Other than Trump being a Russian stooge and having “the button” at his disposal, the next worse problems here are the Rs having free rein to destroy the entire social safety net, roll back taxes on the rich and corporations, and persecute a whole lot of minority groups in the US.

    Still stuck on what to do (other than work to keep VA blue next year)…trying to think of what levers would get the red state Electors to do the right thing when they vote on Dec 19th, based on the proven Russian connections to Trump & Co and that goon squad’s already-obvious incompetence. But Electors are usually party hacks…hmm…have to think about this.

  91. 91.

    Dread

    November 16, 2016 at 9:23 pm

    saying that the country can’t afford for a president to fail

    With respect to the Justice, he’s going to fail.

    The only question is will he fail like an unprepared student on a test, like the brakes on an 18-wheeler filled with flammable gas, or like the O-ring on the Challenger’s booster rockets?

  92. 92.

    NotMax

    November 16, 2016 at 9:25 pm

    @Roger Moore

    Interpretation with which am most familiar rests on a very narrow distinction. Acting President exercises duties of president but does not assume the office, thus making an end run around Article I conflict.

  93. 93.

    Central Planning

    November 16, 2016 at 9:32 pm

    @HelloRochester: So, Rochester, NY?

  94. 94.

    EBT

    November 16, 2016 at 9:40 pm

    http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-idUSKBN13B1UR Most embarrassing ever.

  95. 95.

    Peale

    November 16, 2016 at 9:46 pm

    @lamh36: please. I thought it was the centrist neoliberal sjws vs. joe hard hat hippies.

  96. 96.

    Matt McIrvin

    November 16, 2016 at 9:51 pm

    @Jeffro: I am pretty worried that letting Trump “do the ranty thing” while President will actually lead to a large majority of American whites becoming radicalized fascists, leading eventually to either genocide or nationwide neo-Jim-Crow.

  97. 97.

    Mnemosyne

    November 16, 2016 at 9:52 pm

    @EBT:

    Because if there’s a society that is very casual and easygoing when it comes to ceremony and diplomacy, it’s the Japanese. //

  98. 98.

    EBT

    November 16, 2016 at 9:55 pm

    @Mnemosyne: And I know full well that Herbert Walker vomited on Kiyazawa.

  99. 99.

    Gin & Tonic

    November 16, 2016 at 10:04 pm

    @Mnemosyne: When I read that Trump and Putin talked on the phone I couldn’t help wondering: who was doing the interpreting? Was DoS even aware of the call? Which phone line was it on?

  100. 100.

    Steeplejack (tablet)

    November 16, 2016 at 10:54 pm

    @EBT, @Mnemosyne:

    LOL. Plus, from that story:

    Australian media reported that Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull was the second leader Trump spoke to, after the Australian ambassador to the United States got Trump’s personal phone number from Australian golfer and Trump friend Greg Norman.

    That’s how you break the diplomatic logjam!

  101. 101.

    Calming Influence

    November 17, 2016 at 1:56 am

    I have an idea. How about, when some Democrat loses their shit and says, on camera, to some Republican: “Seriously, Trump is a giant fucking asshole!” maybe other Democrats could start off with ” I don’t know what you’re talking about, but by the way Trump IS a gigantic fucking asshole…” instead of denouncing allies by saying “Yes, it is impolite to point out that Trump is a giant fucking asshole; we will never do it again!”

  102. 102.

    HelloRochester

    November 17, 2016 at 6:55 am

    @Central Planning: originally. In the western burbs where Trump sold really well to people who think Obama killed Kodak and everyone works for either Kodak or Paychex

  103. 103.

    Greg

    November 17, 2016 at 3:03 pm

    @WarMunchkin:

    Paul Ryan. Who went to college on Social Security survivor benefits and worked in government his entire existence. The Kochs. Various other rich people. And all the others who keep telling the government to stay away from their medicare.

  104. 104.

    Greg

    November 17, 2016 at 3:09 pm

    @weaselone:

    Medicare is barred by law from negotiating prescription costs.

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