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You are here: Home / Politics / Domestic Politics / Perhaps Someone Should Ask if He Wants to Be Minority Leader

Perhaps Someone Should Ask if He Wants to Be Minority Leader

by Adam L Silverman|  November 17, 20168:44 pm| 182 Comments

This post is in: Domestic Politics, Election 2016, Foreign Affairs, Open Threads, Politics

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Here’s Aodhán Ó Ríordáin, a member of the Seanad Éireann, telling that august body just what he thinks of the outcome of the recent US election. Given he is a Senator, maybe someone should ask if he wants to be Minority Leader. Or maybe DNC Chair?

 

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Reader Interactions

182Comments

  1. 1.

    Omnes Omnibus

    November 17, 2016 at 8:50 pm

    He does not seem pleased by last week’s debacle.

  2. 2.

    Corner Stone

    November 17, 2016 at 8:52 pm

    I thought I was going to be asked to be DNC Chair? Does this mean the Balloon-Juice vote doesn’t seal the deal?

    Remember my campaigning slogan:
    “If you can’t blarb their nob, goo their hoot, doingle their hahanowilly, take their money and then vote against them you’ve got no business being up here.”

  3. 3.

    Emma

    November 17, 2016 at 8:52 pm

    Whoa. Ad my eighth grade teacher used to say, he’s got his Irish on.

  4. 4.

    WTF

    November 17, 2016 at 8:52 pm

    Excellent. Thank you, Alan.

    I’m in class, need to get back to it.

  5. 5.

    Major Major Major Major

    November 17, 2016 at 8:53 pm

    Ooh, there’s a fun idea, what person or character would make a good DNC chair?

    The Doctor?

  6. 6.

    Diana

    November 17, 2016 at 8:54 pm

    Word

  7. 7.

    Emma

    November 17, 2016 at 8:56 pm

    @Major Major Major Major: No. He has the attention span of a gnat at times.

  8. 8.

    Virgil

    November 17, 2016 at 8:57 pm

    Yes! Words of truth! Pour that gentleman a Guinness! Or two.

  9. 9.

    Quinerly

    November 17, 2016 at 8:57 pm

    Transcripts have leaked and Brit papers reporting Trump’s bizarre conversation with PM May. He told her his mother had been from Scotland and that she had loved the Queen. Essentially, told the PM if she is in the US to look him up. Digby had a post. Mirror, Guardian reporting. Remember when Trump said that the world didn’t respect us? It seems he called Irish leader and invited him to America for St. Pat’s Day. These aren’t Onion articles.

  10. 10.

    Hunter Gathers

    November 17, 2016 at 8:57 pm

    @Major Major Major Major: The Doctor has an entire universe to keep an eye on. Too busy.

    I nominate Malcom Tucker.

  11. 11.

    Major Major Major Major

    November 17, 2016 at 8:57 pm

    Aaaaand Flynn is in.

  12. 12.

    Bitter Scribe

    November 17, 2016 at 8:59 pm

    That was great but I could have done without the cliched Irish fiddle music in the background.

  13. 13.

    Adam L Silverman

    November 17, 2016 at 8:59 pm

    @Corner Stone: Can I get that on a bumper sticker?

  14. 14.

    Adam L Silverman

    November 17, 2016 at 8:59 pm

    @Omnes Omnibus: I believe the expression is: “someone got his Irish up”.

  15. 15.

    Adam L Silverman

    November 17, 2016 at 9:00 pm

    @WTF: Comment some time when you have no class.

  16. 16.

    Betty Cracker

    November 17, 2016 at 9:00 pm

    @Major Major Major Major: How about an actual chair? Not something fancy like an Eames lounger but maybe an old tufted wingback reupholstered in cloth of a bold, striking geometric design?

  17. 17.

    Major Major Major Major

    November 17, 2016 at 9:00 pm

    @Emma: yeah but he has a time machine. He also gets his radical on during conservative political eras, somebody ran the numbers.

  18. 18.

    Adam L Silverman

    November 17, 2016 at 9:01 pm

    @Major Major Major Major: Which one. We’ve had 13 and, from all reports, will be getting a new one and new companion next year.

  19. 19.

    Adam L Silverman

    November 17, 2016 at 9:02 pm

    @Bitter Scribe: I just find them and post them, I don’t make them.

  20. 20.

    Central Planning

    November 17, 2016 at 9:02 pm

    Why would 50k illegal Irish people here be afraid, unless their skin color is darker than the background of this text? Trump/Republicans don’t care about them.

  21. 21.

    Betty Cracker

    November 17, 2016 at 9:03 pm

    @Bitter Scribe: That bothered me too. I felt vaguely…patronized.

  22. 22.

    Omnes Omnibus

    November 17, 2016 at 9:03 pm

    @Adam L Silverman: I believe it is.

  23. 23.

    Major Major Major Major

    November 17, 2016 at 9:03 pm

    @Adam L Silverman: War Doctor?

    ETA: or three, he knew Kung Fu

  24. 24.

    JPL

    November 17, 2016 at 9:04 pm

    @Major Major Major Major: Yes he is, and I wonder how many under him will leave.

    My impossible dream is to have something come out about Trump, so appalling that the electoral college goes for Clinton. I know something will come out, but it will be after the electoral college votes and we will be left with Pence.
    In fact the NYTimes could have info and not share it, like they did in 2004.

  25. 25.

    Adam L Silverman

    November 17, 2016 at 9:04 pm

    @Major Major Major Major: Possibility. Or 9.

  26. 26.

    Pogonip

    November 17, 2016 at 9:06 pm

    @Major Major Major Major: Gowron.

  27. 27.

    SiubhanDuinne

    November 17, 2016 at 9:06 pm

    @Quinerly:

    These aren’t Onion articles.

    The hell you say.

  28. 28.

    Schlemazel

    November 17, 2016 at 9:06 pm

    @Adam L Silverman:
    Oh, I think we have enough of that here without WTF’s help

  29. 29.

    Adam L Silverman

    November 17, 2016 at 9:07 pm

    @Schlemazel: I’m pretty sure its on the business cards.

  30. 30.

    Major Major Major Major

    November 17, 2016 at 9:08 pm

    @Adam L Silverman: I don’t think any would be good minority leaders though.

  31. 31.

    SiubhanDuinne

    November 17, 2016 at 9:08 pm

    In Like Flynn.

    We are seriously fucked.

  32. 32.

    japa21

    November 17, 2016 at 9:08 pm

    @Central Planning: Actually, it was a pretty good statement. If Trump is asked about the 50,000 illegal Irish immigrants and if they should be worried, what is he going to say. “Nah, we won’t go after them.”

  33. 33.

    Central Planning

    November 17, 2016 at 9:09 pm

    @japa21: Yes, I bet he would actually say that.

  34. 34.

    NotMax

    November 17, 2016 at 9:10 pm

    You know who’s nominees, policies, persona, the whole shmear:

    A thousand points of blight.

    Pass it on.

    Adam, movie recommendation for you on Netflix that might be right up your alley if you haven’t yet seen it. Jack Strong. Polish film based on a true Cold War espionage story. Somewhat disjointed production but overall worth a viewing.

                trailer

  35. 35.

    Hunter Gathers

    November 17, 2016 at 9:11 pm

    @Major Major Major Major:

    he knew Kung Fu

    Technically, it was Venusian aikido.

  36. 36.

    Applejinx

    November 17, 2016 at 9:12 pm

    @Central Planning: Just what I’d thought. “Oh come on, they’re white”. No chance they’re at risk here unless it’s from grumpy functionaries playing ‘be careful what you wish for’ and specifically targeting white people just to fuck with the scenario.

    …which would be kind of amazing, but I doubt it (and doubt it’d work as intended).

  37. 37.

    Major Major Major Major

    November 17, 2016 at 9:13 pm

    @Hunter Gathers: by far the most criminally under-rated Doctor.

  38. 38.

    Shalimar

    November 17, 2016 at 9:15 pm

    @Central Planning: Trump would say “My mother was Scottish. She loved the Irish. They’re such a great people, never causing any troubles.”

  39. 39.

    Elmo

    November 17, 2016 at 9:17 pm

    My people! I’m so proud.
    I am torn between maintaining my security clearance and leveraging my Irish grandparents to get dual citizenship.
    Just in case.

  40. 40.

    Culture of Truth

    November 17, 2016 at 9:18 pm

    Well, it’s easy to be brave when you’re from another country. Also, (1) the term is ‘undocumented’, not “illegal” (2) Trump isn’t coming after the Irish and (3) Ireland was neutral in WWII

  41. 41.

    Adam L Silverman

    November 17, 2016 at 9:18 pm

    @Major Major Major Major: @SiubhanDuinne: We basically have two types of National Security Advisors. The first basically serves as the Chief of Staff for the national security portion of the Interagency. They keep everyone in their own lanes, deconflict issues/problems, and make sure everyone gets properly represented when the decision point material goes to the President. The second decide they are going to be the President’s senior advisor on National security. They tend to ignore the Interagency process and instead see themselves as the President’s guy or gal. The National Security Advisors that have gone the first route tend to be very successful and, as a result, you don’t tend to hear a lot about them. Those that go the second right tend to be disasters. You hear a lot about them because they 1) want everyone to know they’re the President’s senior advisor on National security, 2) ignore the principles in the Interagency, who are all strong personalities with their own institutional needs when approaching National security matters (prestige, budgets, other resources, access, etc) and these guys and gals thens start to cannibalize each other, and 3) as a result spectacularly fail at the job.

    If he goes the first route, he’ll be fine. If he goes the second route he’ll make a really big mess that will become public very quickly as the actual principles selectively leak to their favorite reporters (off the record) in order to settle scores because no one is actually managing the Interagency properly.

    The question here is do we get the LTG Flynn that had the stellar career and was highly regarded until he got to DIA or the LTG Flynn that ran DIA and has seemed increasingly bitter and erratic since he was forced out of that command and into an early retirement. If its the former, he’ll be okay. If its the latter he won’t. I do not know LTG Flynn and I cannot answer the question.

  42. 42.

    Adam L Silverman

    November 17, 2016 at 9:19 pm

    @NotMax: I’ve heard of it, never seen it. I’ll give it a looksee when I get a chance. Thanks!

  43. 43.

    Adam L Silverman

    November 17, 2016 at 9:20 pm

    @Major Major Major Major: as in no one appreciated how he was able to pull off that tri-galaxy killing and looting spree or its criminal that no one appreciates him?

  44. 44.

    Adam L Silverman

    November 17, 2016 at 9:23 pm

    @Elmo: It isn’t automatically disqualifying. Here’s the guidance:
    http://www.state.gov/m/ds/clearances/60321.htm#c

  45. 45.

    Major Major Major Major

    November 17, 2016 at 9:23 pm

    @Adam L Silverman: given his incompetence and erratic nature at his largest and most recent post, aren’t we likely to get a disaster no matter which he tries?

    @Adam L Silverman: yes.

  46. 46.

    Chris

    November 17, 2016 at 9:24 pm

    @Major Major Major Major:

    Ooh, there’s a fun idea, what person or character would make a good DNC chair?

    Harrison Ford. That death glare of his is serious business.

    @Major Major Major Major:

    Aaaaand Flynn is in.

    What’s up with that guy? I Wikipediad him the other night and apparently he… started out Democrat, became a Trumpist, and also is accused of lobbying for Erdogan’s government and pro-Muslim-Brotherhood company despite working for the biggest Islamophobe in America.

  47. 47.

    Jeffro

    November 17, 2016 at 9:25 pm

    @Adam L Silverman:

    The question here is do we get the LTG Flynn that had the stellar career and was highly regarded until he got to DIA or the LTG Flynn that ran DIA and has seemed increasingly bitter and erratic since he was forced out of that command and into an early retirement. If its the former, he’ll be okay. If its the latter he won’t. I do not know LTG Flynn and I cannot answer the question.

    Adam, I don’t know him either…but if I were a bettin’ man…I’m laying down markers on door #2.

    We’re really going to need some rogues in the intelligence services to expose these clowns as early as possible.

  48. 48.

    lamh36

    November 17, 2016 at 9:26 pm

    So…this happened…

    @IvanCNN
    President-Elect Trump held his first meeting with a foreign leader, Japan’s PM Shinzo Abe, amid crystal, marble and gold-leaf of Trump Tower

    Look a bit closer…and guess who’s else was there…Ivanka…

    did I miss something…does Ivanka have clearance now?

  49. 49.

    Adam L Silverman

    November 17, 2016 at 9:27 pm

    @Major Major Major Major: To answer your question: I don’t know. He’s a Senior Leadership College (SLC) graduate (one of the war colleges, can’t remember which one he went to). So he certainly knows, from both classroom and from being a part of it as DIA Director, how its supposed to work. Especially as President Obama’s National Security Advisors have been the first type, not the second – not that they don’t advise the President as well, they just do a good job managing the National security Interagency rather than neglecting those duties. I don’t know him. He’s certainly smart enough and well prepared enough – from experience and education – to get it right. Perhaps what made him a toxic leader at DIA will not resurface, he’ll feel vindicated by getting this position, and as a result he’ll return to his exemplary type service from before he got to DIA. But I have no way of handicapping this.

  50. 50.

    Major Major Major Major

    November 17, 2016 at 9:29 pm

    @Chris: in a fan video of “if the doctor were American” that I really like they cast Ford as the War Doctor. It’s quite inspired. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bCv5o7n_mtk

  51. 51.

    Adam L Silverman

    November 17, 2016 at 9:31 pm

    @Chris: He’s got some potential trouble. Apparently he did not disclose to the Intel Community folks who read him back onto his clearance when now President-elect Trump was getting his Intel briefings during the campaign that he was a paid lobbyist/consultant for people with ties to the Turkish government (the first briefing was within a month of the coup), as well as other foreign companies and interests. That is a big no no!

  52. 52.

    trollhattan

    November 17, 2016 at 9:31 pm

    @Adam L Silverman:
    Just don’t want the one who yelled at Hillary for 10 minutes at the RNC. Unhinged doesn’t begin to describe.

  53. 53.

    errg

    November 17, 2016 at 9:31 pm

    Here’s youtube with a somewhat longer clip of the speech without the annoying (and a bit patronizing) Irish music…

  54. 54.

    Adam L Silverman

    November 17, 2016 at 9:32 pm

    @lamh36: No.

  55. 55.

    Citizen_X

    November 17, 2016 at 9:32 pm

    @Major Major Major Major: Not by me! I love his ruffled dandy shirts, that stupid flivver he drove around in, and his constantly pulling out his aikido/judo. Dude got in more brawls than James T. Kirk.

  56. 56.

    Emma

    November 17, 2016 at 9:32 pm

    @Major Major Major Major: There’s that. Ok, then I want 10. You remember Family of Blood? Yeah.

  57. 57.

    Adam L Silverman

    November 17, 2016 at 9:32 pm

    @Jeffro: No, you don’t want the Intel community to out anything. You want the Intel community to be professional and do its jobs protecting America’s secrets.

  58. 58.

    errg

    November 17, 2016 at 9:34 pm

    Links don’t work…?

    Search for Aodhán O’Riordáin’s passionate speech…

  59. 59.

    Baud

    November 17, 2016 at 9:34 pm

    @Adam L Silverman: Except Snowden?

  60. 60.

    Adam L Silverman

    November 17, 2016 at 9:34 pm

    @trollhattan: That was a bit bizarre. I’ve seen general officers/flag officers get angry and let one or more people have it, but even in a combat zone I’ve never seen one become unhinged.

  61. 61.

    Yoda dog

    November 17, 2016 at 9:34 pm

    @Culture of Truth: your #3 is totally immaterial. Present day Irish can still denounce fascism sans irony.

  62. 62.

    Citizen_X

    November 17, 2016 at 9:35 pm

    @trollhattan:

    Just don’t want the one who yelled at Hillary for 10 minutes at the RNC. Unhinged doesn’t begin to describe.

    You’re going to have to be more specific.

  63. 63.

    Major Major Major Major

    November 17, 2016 at 9:35 pm

    @Emma: sure but I also remember Waters of Mars. Dude had issues.

  64. 64.

    Mary G

    November 17, 2016 at 9:36 pm

    Judging by the behavior of his son and chief of staff I am going with door No.2

    (CNN)The son of top Donald Trump adviser and retired Army Lt. Gen. Michael Flynn regularly shares conspiracy theories, expletive-filled posts, and racially insensitive sentiments on Twitter and Facebook, a CNN KFile review of his social media presence reveals.

    Flynn’s son, Michael G. Flynn, shared stories alleging top Hillary Clinton aide Huma Abedin had a connection to the Muslim Brotherhood, pushed a conspiracy theory that Sen. Marco Rubio was a closeted homosexual who abused cocaine, and repeatedly used expletives to attack Trump’s political opponents.

  65. 65.

    Jeffro

    November 17, 2016 at 9:36 pm

    @Adam L Silverman:

    No, you don’t want the Intel community to out anything. You want the Intel community to be professional and do its jobs protecting America’s secrets.

    I’m not talking about them outing America’s secrets. I’m talking about them out the first verifiable instances of Trump, Flynn, and the rest of the Putin Puppet Brigade feeding info to Russia and/or acting on Putin’s instructions.

  66. 66.

    Adam L Silverman

    November 17, 2016 at 9:36 pm

    @errg: I just found it and swapped it out up top for what was up top. Thanks!

  67. 67.

    Chris

    November 17, 2016 at 9:36 pm

    @Jeffro:

    We’re really going to need some rogues in the intelligence services to expose these clowns as early as possible.

    From what I understand, Watergate happened because a senior FBI employee was bitter at Nixon for the way he was butting into the FBI’s management and also passing him over for promotion.

    I know better than to hope for an impeachment of Trump, but with his personality and incompetence, I’d like to hope he’ll piss off enough people that his government leaks like a sieve, and that at least some of those leaks will do him serious harm.

    ETA: to clarify in light of the above point, no, I am not hoping that anyone will leak national security information. It does occur to me, however, that there’s probably plenty of petty political stuff that can be leaked to the press without endangering the nation, not to mention actual criminal activity like Watergate should it occur (and with Trump, it’s not a bad bet).

  68. 68.

    Adam L Silverman

    November 17, 2016 at 9:37 pm

    @Baud: I’m not sure I understand the question.

  69. 69.

    Emma

    November 17, 2016 at 9:38 pm

    @Major Major Major Major: True but when he got pissed, well, things happened. Really bad things to the really annoying folk.

  70. 70.

    Baud

    November 17, 2016 at 9:38 pm

    @Adam L Silverman: That guy is a hero to some for spilling secrets. Curious if Trump leakers will receive the same respect.

  71. 71.

    Jeffro

    November 17, 2016 at 9:38 pm

    @Mary G: Agreed and thank you for posting. This is what happened to Flynn – same thing that happened to Trump: they took a deep dive off into conspiracy, paranoia, and hate-land (otherwise known as AlexJonesWorld) These people are dangerous beyond belief and cannot be rationalized with. I want the services to do their jobs and be professionals…but at the first indication they are collaborating with a hostile foreign power, I hope the professionals will do what’s best for the country and out it, bigly.

  72. 72.

    Major Major Major Major

    November 17, 2016 at 9:39 pm

    @Emma: true. Ok, ten but he has to have the temp from Chiswick with him.

  73. 73.

    Adam L Silverman

    November 17, 2016 at 9:39 pm

    @Jeffro: From what I’ve seen throughout the election, the counter-intelligence people are going to have their work cut out for them.

  74. 74.

    slag

    November 17, 2016 at 9:39 pm

    What that guy said.

    Should Ireland ever get over itself and grant women bodily autonomy, it would easily be on the potential emigration destination list.

  75. 75.

    Alain the site fixer

    November 17, 2016 at 9:40 pm

    @Citizen_X: it came out after John Pertwee passed that he had been an OSS agent in WWII. Like a spy, the real deal. A hero!

  76. 76.

    Central Planning

    November 17, 2016 at 9:41 pm

    @Mary G:

    theory that Sen. Marco Rubio was a closeted homosexual who abused cocaine

    Wait. That’s not true?

  77. 77.

    SiubhanDuinne

    November 17, 2016 at 9:42 pm

    Someone (another customer) just overheard me commiserating with a server about the election results.

    Kindred spirit. Bought me a glass of wine.

  78. 78.

    Major Major Major Major

    November 17, 2016 at 9:42 pm

    @Alain the site fixer: wasn’t Julia Child and Ho Chi Minh? Everybody was a damn spy.

  79. 79.

    Mary G

    November 17, 2016 at 9:43 pm

    Another call to Congress suggested on Twitter:

    Share to @pantsuitnation Let's go! pic.twitter.com/YCbXqiBGCq— Dana G (@abner463) November 18, 2016

    ETA: Call House Oversight Committee (202) 225-5074 to ask for investigation of Trump finances and potential conflicts of interest. Needs to be done tomorrow, URGENT.

  80. 80.

    Major Major Major Major

    November 17, 2016 at 9:43 pm

    @Major Major Major Major: and Aleister Crowley!

  81. 81.

    Jeffro

    November 17, 2016 at 9:43 pm

    @Chris: Yes. Of course Watergate was only able to happen because Nixon and his crew committed actual crimes. Just because someone had an axe to grind doesn’t mean it wasn’t the right thing to do (not trying to put words in your mouth btw, just pontificating as usual)

    Trump’s government is going to leak like crazy and the resignations are going to come in droves. He & his henchmen won’t care, but the replacements – assuming any arrive – are going to make HeckuvaJob Brownie look like Einstein before it’s over.

    If nothing else, I pray Obama’s parting advice to Trump is, “Look, you’re going to do what you’re going to do and appoint who you want to appoint – you’re the President now. But for Pete’s sake, make sure that Homeland Security and FEMA have someone with impeccable experience and cred no matter where they’re from or what party.”

  82. 82.

    Baud

    November 17, 2016 at 9:43 pm

    @SiubhanDuinne:

    commiserating with a server

    Is that all we are to you?

  83. 83.

    lamh36

    November 17, 2016 at 9:44 pm

    @Adam L Silverman: I was being facetious, but it’s funny that the CNN guy just didn’t even make mention of Ivanka’s presence…

    Trump normalization…continues

  84. 84.

    Jeffro

    November 17, 2016 at 9:44 pm

    @Adam L Silverman:

    From what I’ve seen throughout the election, the counter-intelligence people are going to have their work cut out for them

    Understood and appreciated beyond belief.

  85. 85.

    Major Major Major Major

    November 17, 2016 at 9:45 pm

    @Baud: I spent all day commiserating with a server. Then again I’m a programmer.

  86. 86.

    Chris

    November 17, 2016 at 9:45 pm

    @Alain the site fixer:

    A British actor was an American agent? I can see why you’d want to keep that quiet, even beyond the usual need for secrecy…

  87. 87.

    Corner Stone

    November 17, 2016 at 9:46 pm

    @SiubhanDuinne:

    Kindred spirit. Bought me a glass of wine.

    What What! i foresee some R Kelly in your immediate future. Awwwww….yeeeaaahhh!!!

  88. 88.

    Yoda dog

    November 17, 2016 at 9:46 pm

    @Central Planning: I’m gonna take a page from my RWNJ relatives’ playbook and just believe it cuz I fucking want to.

    Dude was super thirsty during that SOTU rebuttal speech if you’ll recall..

  89. 89.

    Citizen_X

    November 17, 2016 at 9:47 pm

    @Central Planning: Oh, Marco! Did I just imagine that one wild night?

  90. 90.

    SiubhanDuinne

    November 17, 2016 at 9:48 pm

    @Adam L Silverman:

    If its the former, he’ll be okay. If its the latter he won’t. I do not know LTG Flynn and I cannot answer the question.

    Adam, I admire how scrupulous you always are in your assessments of people and situations. I am compleat ignoramus compared to you, and I have no trouble at all leaping to a conclusion.

    That’s probably why you’re a highly respected scholar and front-pager on a range of security issues and I’m an uneducated backbench commenter on a blog filled with howling jackals.

  91. 91.

    Alain the site fixer

    November 17, 2016 at 9:49 pm

    @Chris: doh. He was with the brits. I’m tired.

  92. 92.

    Adam L Silverman

    November 17, 2016 at 9:49 pm

    @Baud: Ahhh. Okay. While I’ve never been a whistle blower, I did resign a position because I had the unfortunate professional responsibility to tell leadership that how they’d been doing something for 14 years was illegal under Federal law and regulation and in violation of DOD policy and guidelines. I then developed a way ahead plan for how to make things legal going forward and a process to go back, review what was in the pipeline, and make a determination if what was there could be brought onto the correct side of the law, regs, policy and guidelines. First I was harangued. Then I was ignored. Then I was basically told to just keep working on stuff as if nothing I’d reported had been reported. So I resigned. I hadn’t blow the whistle. I hadn’t contacted the IG. I hadn’t even taken it outside my department’s leadership. So I resigned. I wasn’t a whistleblower, I just walked away from a $120K salary.

    So given how people just trying to be professional and look out for the institution’s reputation get treated, let alone how actual whistleblowers get treated, I get how someone would believe that just taking everything, going to the press, and fleeing to safety might be the way to go. I don’t think that’s a professional thing to do. And in terms of what Snowden supposedly took – in toto – what he did and how he did it was not a professional thing to do. Nor was it a responsible thing to do. Beyond that I cannot, for professional reasons, speak about Snowden.

    As for my situation: six month’s after I resigned I got an email from my former deputy director. My resignation got overall leadership’s attention. A working group was convened. It was determined that everything I identified was correct. That both the way ahead for everything that would be done going forward was correct and the review process to attempt to get what had been done back on the right side of the line was correct. And that it had been accepted and implemented. Also, the director had retired (early).

  93. 93.

    Chris

    November 17, 2016 at 9:50 pm

    @Alain the site fixer:

    Ah, that makes more sense.

    The other thing didn’t seem impossible to me, just, definitely not the sort of thing you’d want reported until you were no longer around to be held accountable. Even if you were in fact working against the Axis and not the U.K.

  94. 94.

    rikyrah

    November 17, 2016 at 9:51 pm

    ———————
    Sanders: ‘Maybe I would have been elected president’
    11/16/16 08:07 PM EST 810

    Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) bristled at the notion that he hurt Hillary Clinton’s chances at winning the presidency, suggesting he could have beat Donald Trump in a general election.

    When asked by The Washington Post’s E.J. Dionne during a Wednesday night event whether he hurt Clinton’s chances at the White House, Sanders pushed back.

    “You can argue the exact reverse — that maybe I would have been elected president of the United States,” Sanders said at George Washington University to cheers from the crowd.

    “The presumption behind that question is that we should anoint candidates for president, that a serious debate or candidates competing against each other is a bad thing for democracy.”

    Sanders went on to argue that his presidential campaign brought “millions of people into the process” and that the vast majority likely voted for Clinton. And he said that his campaign made Clinton a “stronger candidate” because he pushed her to come out against the Keystone Pipeline and the Trans-Pacific Partnership.

  95. 95.

    Major Major Major Major

    November 17, 2016 at 9:53 pm

    @rikyrah:

    his campaign made Clinton a “stronger candidate” because he pushed her to come out against the Keystone Pipeline and the Trans-Pacific Partnership.

    White working class people have sure heard of those!

  96. 96.

    Adam L Silverman

    November 17, 2016 at 9:54 pm

    @SiubhanDuinne: That’s better than what’s been reported in other places where that woman in NY got punched in the face.

  97. 97.

    Adam L Silverman

    November 17, 2016 at 9:54 pm

    @Major Major Major Major: Do you really need to know if they were? If not, please don’t ask.

  98. 98.

    Hunter Gathers

    November 17, 2016 at 9:54 pm

    @rikyrah: Bernie Sanders needs to go the fuck away. Now.

  99. 99.

    Adam L Silverman

    November 17, 2016 at 9:55 pm

    @lamh36: probably never occurred to the CNN guy because it took place at Trump Tower. If it had taken place in the Oval Office it would have seemed very out of place.

  100. 100.

    father pussbucket

    November 17, 2016 at 9:56 pm

    @Adam L Silverman:

    I just found it and swapped it out up top for what was up top. Thanks!

    Yikes! It’s hosted by an alt-right thing called “Shoah Business”. Better find a different source or go back to the annoying music.

  101. 101.

    Major Major Major Major

    November 17, 2016 at 9:56 pm

    @Adam L Silverman: Snowden also was quite clearly out to get the government here, he didn’t exactly have the agency’s best interests at heart.

  102. 102.

    Adam L Silverman

    November 17, 2016 at 9:58 pm

    @Chris: http://www.osssociety.org/pdfs/YISO2010.pdf
    http://www.tbo.com/list/news-opinion-commentary/gen-donovans-glorious-amateurs-415158
    http://www.vanityfair.com/culture/2011/03/wild-bill-donovan201103
    http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/11/09/inside-the-party-for-america-s-finest-spies.html

  103. 103.

    Shalimar

    November 17, 2016 at 9:58 pm

    @lamh36: I wouldn’t be surprised to see Melania and Barron stay at Trump Tower and never even live in the White House. Also wouldn’t be shocked if Trump divorces Melania sometime in the next 4 years. Ivanka may be in the meeting as a substitute First Lady/hostess, the role she has probably been playing for her father for the last 15 years.

  104. 104.

    SiubhanDuinne

    November 17, 2016 at 9:58 pm

    @Adam L Silverman:

    They love me here. Even the people who are political opponents. I don’t like to be complacent about anything, but I do feel pretty safe.

    #famouslastwords?

  105. 105.

    Adam L Silverman

    November 17, 2016 at 9:59 pm

    @SiubhanDuinne: I’m not a scholar. I’m a (civilian) practitioner. And I’m more likely to have someone curse after they say my name. But thanks for the kind words!

  106. 106.

    Adam L Silverman

    November 17, 2016 at 10:01 pm

    @rikyrah: What political party does he currently belong to?

  107. 107.

    SiubhanDuinne

    November 17, 2016 at 10:03 pm

    @Shalimar:

    I don’t disagree with any of this. Poor little Barron Trump looks freaked out enough, judging by the pictures I’ve seen. I’m sure they won’t move him to WSHDC at least until the current school year is over, and maybe never. And Ivanka seems more than willing to play “First Lady” if that’s what Daddy wants.

    Ugh. These people.

  108. 108.

    Chris

    November 17, 2016 at 10:03 pm

    @rikyrah:

    Christ. The problem with Sanders is not that he went up against Hillary Clinton in the primaries. The problem is that by the end of the primaries, what started out as a respectable if a bit one-note campaign about some of the issues facing the American people had turned into an incoherent whine about how unfair and undemocratic the Democratic nominating process was. (Except for the caucuses Sanders won because they, for some reason or another, were not undemocratic). That added fuel onto the “crooked Hillary” “untrustworthy Hillary” meme that the media ran with all year.

    Potentially just as bad, by convincing a lot of Sanders supporters that they totally would’ve won if they hadn’t been cheated out of the nomination, it gave them the impression that they have a bigger support base than they actually do, which could be a recipe for a huge problem come 2020.

  109. 109.

    Gin & Tonic

    November 17, 2016 at 10:03 pm

    @Major Major Major Major: I spend my days fighting with them. And with guys like you.

    Yeah, I’m a network guy.

  110. 110.

    Adam L Silverman

    November 17, 2016 at 10:04 pm

    @father pussbucket: Thanks for catching that. I didn’t even check. I just found one from a normal youtube poster and swapped it out.

  111. 111.

    Adam L Silverman

    November 17, 2016 at 10:05 pm

    @Major Major Major Major: Yes. I just wanted to make sure I didn’t have to tap a microphone in front of a commission of inquiry. I look horrible in an orange jumpsuit!

  112. 112.

    Adam L Silverman

    November 17, 2016 at 10:05 pm

    @SiubhanDuinne: Good to hear/read!

  113. 113.

    mai naem mobile

    November 17, 2016 at 10:08 pm

    I am wondering how the conversation went between Obama and Merkel. Could he be honest with her or does he lie to her not to freak her out?

  114. 114.

    Quinerly

    November 17, 2016 at 10:08 pm

    @Chris:
    Great post. Couldn’t have said it better. I’ll add that Sanders and his campaign sure planted the seeds.

  115. 115.

    Quinerly

    November 17, 2016 at 10:10 pm

    @mai naem mobile:
    Oh, I think she knows. Did you see that look on her face? She knows it’s bad….IT’S NOT NORMAL.

  116. 116.

    Major Major Major Major

    November 17, 2016 at 10:12 pm

    @Adam L Silverman: it’s not a good look on anybody.

  117. 117.

    Adam L Silverman

    November 17, 2016 at 10:14 pm

    @Major Major Major Major: One would think.

  118. 118.

    Major Major Major Major

    November 17, 2016 at 10:14 pm

    @mai naem mobile: why on earth wouldn’t he tell her the truth? She’s one of the most powerful people on the planet, she can handle it.

  119. 119.

    Quinerly

    November 17, 2016 at 10:14 pm

    @SiubhanDuinne:
    I know it’s silly and I’m still raw and shell shocked. Popped in the clothing store,Steinmart, yesterday. Fled when the announcement came over the speaker…”We are now carrying the Ivanka Trump line.” I kid you not. These fucking people.

  120. 120.

    Emma

    November 17, 2016 at 10:20 pm

    @Major Major Major Major: Agreed! God I love her!

  121. 121.

    mai naem mobile

    November 17, 2016 at 10:22 pm

    @lamh36: wonder what Ivanka is going to market from this picture? The fuck me pumps? The dress? The Asian inspired make up?

  122. 122.

    Major Major Major Major

    November 17, 2016 at 10:23 pm

    @Emma: she’s much more interesting than the usual quirky messiah girl.

  123. 123.

    Chris

    November 17, 2016 at 10:23 pm

    @Quinerly:

    Can you imagine what it must be like for the leader of Germany to be watching Britain, America, and Russia all descending into far right looniness and wondering 1) how the fuck did that happen and 2) what the fuck do you do now?

  124. 124.

    Betty Cracker

    November 17, 2016 at 10:24 pm

    Did y’all know the 3rd season of “The Fall” is out on Netflix? Effective escapism. The surgery scenes were gratuitously gnarly, IMO.

  125. 125.

    Major Major Major Major

    November 17, 2016 at 10:24 pm

    @Chris: what do you do now? Watch it happen to France next and shore up your own defenses because they’re coming for you after.

  126. 126.

    Emma

    November 17, 2016 at 10:26 pm

    @Major Major Major Major: The one female companion I could identify with, really, since Sarah Jane, which was when we were also the same age. Rose was a Pygmalion story done well; she turns into a worldly badass. And I admire Martha for ultimately walking away. But Donna Noble’s my companion.

  127. 127.

    Major Major Major Major

    November 17, 2016 at 10:28 pm

    @Emma: I couldn’t stand Clara. Is she dead for real yet? Stopped watching after Capaldi’s first season. Need to catch up.

  128. 128.

    GregB

    November 17, 2016 at 10:29 pm

    @trollhattan:

    It is him. Someone compared him to General Jack D. Ripper from Dr. Strangelove.

  129. 129.

    Steve in the ATL

    November 17, 2016 at 10:32 pm

    @Baud:

    @SiubhanDuinne:

    commiserating with a server

    Is that all we are to you?

    ReplyReply

    Dude, are you not reading my dossiers on all the BJ posters? Judy has her own barstool at Chili’s and may or may not have a bartender boy toy.

  130. 130.

    Adam L Silverman

    November 17, 2016 at 10:32 pm

    @Major Major Major Major: She’s existing between heart beats in a tardis that looks like the cafe from the episode where River Song thinks she kills the Doctor. She’s traveling with the Me character played by Massie Williams. And the word in the British papers is that Capaldi is done after this season, as is the new companion just for this season.
    http://io9.gizmodo.com/more-rumors-about-peter-capaldis-future-on-doctor-who-1789017056

    Doctor Who

    British tabloid the Mirror claims sources have told them that, due to flagging merchandise sales, season 11—the first under new showrunner Chris Chibnall—will be a total “clean slate” with both Peter Capaldi and incoming companion Pearl Mackie departing the show at the end of 2017, to be replaced by a “younger Doctor” á la David Tennant, and a new female companion.

    I like Capaldi, but I had a lot of trouble getting through his first season. The second season was a bit better. For whatever the reason – the writing, how Capaldi interprets the writing, the directing, the show running, all of it, some of it – it has been hard to watch Capaldi as the Doctor.

  131. 131.

    Emma

    November 17, 2016 at 10:34 pm

    @Major Major Major Major: Nope. He brought her back from the dead but she erased his memory and went off in another TARDIS. At least that’s what I’m told. I haven’t watched much lately. I’m planning a Christmas Holiday Doctor Who Orgy.

  132. 132.

    Steve in the ATL

    November 17, 2016 at 10:34 pm

    @SiubhanDuinne:

    pager on a range of security issues and I’m an uneducated backbench commenter on a blog filled with howling jackals.

    Do not be ashamed of your GED!

  133. 133.

    Major Major Major Major

    November 17, 2016 at 10:35 pm

    @Adam L Silverman: @Emma: Jesus, maybe I’ll just hold off.

  134. 134.

    Emma

    November 17, 2016 at 10:36 pm

    @Adam L Silverman: And Chibnall is turning into a bad fanfic writer. Damn.

  135. 135.

    Quinerly

    November 17, 2016 at 10:37 pm

    @Chris:
    And we now turn to you,GERMANY, to save us. Somebody cruise over to Little Green Footballs and check out the bizarre picture of what looks like Ivanka presiding over daddy’s meeting with the Japanese PM. Gold leafed living room at Trump Tower. I can’t find this pic anywhere else and love LGFB but have to wonder about this pic. Bizarre. THIS IS NOT NORMAL.

  136. 136.

    TS

    November 17, 2016 at 10:39 pm

    @JPL:

    My impossible dream is to have something come out about Trump, so appalling that the electoral college goes for Clinton.

    Why would the electoral college be any better than those who voted for trump. I heard some seriously appalling things about Trump – would have caused the congress to impeach Obama if anything similar had emerged – and still people voted for him. Electoral college would do the same. Trump can start WWIII and the deplorables will see that as employment opportunities.

  137. 137.

    Peale

    November 17, 2016 at 10:40 pm

    @Chris: Poland too. I really hope she has a plan. Eventually there will be so many nationalists, they will start fighting. I mean there is this long held idea that there’s a “Democratic peace”. Far right nationalist peace, not really all that common.

  138. 138.

    mai naem mobile

    November 17, 2016 at 10:42 pm

    @Quinerly: she looks like she had been crying.
    @Major Major Major Major: because wouldn’t the US be less powerful if OBama tells Merkel – “Hey, Angie, good luck,he’s like a toddler, just kiss his ass and he might cooperate with you, Do me a favor,don’t show him the concentration camps, Might give him some ideas. Sorry about my country.Sucks to be you. Thank FSM I’m done!”

  139. 139.

    Mnemosyne

    November 17, 2016 at 10:42 pm

    @Major Major Major Major:

    I liked her pre-Companion episode (the Dalek one), but I HATED her as a Companion. They never seemed to know what to do with her, and it only got worse when they changed Doctors.

    ETA: Plus I’m on Team River Song, so the flirtation annoyed me.

  140. 140.

    Omnes Omnibus

    November 17, 2016 at 10:43 pm

    @Adam L Silverman:

    And I’m more likely to have someone curse after they say my name.

    Most of us do.

  141. 141.

    Major Major Major Major

    November 17, 2016 at 10:45 pm

    @mai naem mobile: It’s not like he’s giving up the nuclear codes by telling her what’s plainly visible on tv.

    @Mnemosyne: the Dalek one was fine. Donna (and Wilf!!) will always be the best companion.

  142. 142.

    Retr2327

    November 17, 2016 at 10:45 pm

    @Adam L Silverman: to be sure, no one in that crowd has any principles. Especially the principals.

  143. 143.

    Quinerly

    November 17, 2016 at 10:52 pm

    @mai naem mobile:
    Yes, on the crying. As a woman myself I hate to comment on stuff like that. Probably any way the election had gone,there would have been crying. No Obama in a couple of months. But, yes, she had been crying.

  144. 144.

    Adam L Silverman

    November 17, 2016 at 10:53 pm

    @Emma: I honestly don’t know what the problem is. I’m not sure that each thing itself is a/the problem, but, rather, when you put all the pieces together its just off somehow.

  145. 145.

    Jeffro

    November 17, 2016 at 10:55 pm

    Here’s more reason why we need to put a pitchfork right up the VA GOP’s backside next November: here’s the VA GOP chairman commenting on Tim Kaine declining to run for president in 2020:

    Republican Party of Virginia Chairman John Whitbeck called Kaine’s decision “a wise one.”
    “After the voters of Virginia go to the polls in 2018 to weigh in on his dramatic abandonment of virtually everything he’s ever stood for to be Hillary’s running mate, it would be very difficult for then former-Sen. Kaine to get any traction at all,” Whitbeck said in a statement.

    “Dramatic abandonment” of what exactly, you jackass??

    This is what’s next – trying to drag the Hillary-smears into the next decade if we let them. I mean, going after Tim Kaine when he’s already passing on a 2020 run?

    Hillz should call a nice ol’ press conference sometime between now and Dec 19th and lay it all out for America: “these bastards slimed me for almost 40 years, they’re willing to sell out the country to Russia just to advance their own psychopathic need to shred the safety net, and oh by the way, Comey’s a dick, Sanders is a precious little snowflake, and above all else, Trump has to be fought – my email non-scandal doesn’t change how monumentally stupid and unfit he is for anything but watching TV and Tweeting stupid shit.”

  146. 146.

    Adam L Silverman

    November 17, 2016 at 10:56 pm

    @Retr2327: until the comment box comes with an auto proofread, you are going to get these bespoke typos.

  147. 147.

    slag

    November 17, 2016 at 10:56 pm

    @Chris: Agreed. All that in addition to making wildly unrealistic campaign promises, which only augmented the fantastic surreality of this entire election and further unmoored the electorate from rationality.

  148. 148.

    Quinerly

    November 17, 2016 at 11:00 pm

    @Jeffro:
    I’m so angry…all over again…had started to calm down. Tim Kaine is a good, good man. I hate these people. Yes, that’s a strong word. Despise, is that stronger?

  149. 149.

    Major Major Major Major

    November 17, 2016 at 11:00 pm

    @Jeffro: knowing her I’m sure there is somebody tasked with preventing her from doing this.

  150. 150.

    tobie

    November 17, 2016 at 11:03 pm

    @Chris:

    Potentially just as bad, by convincing a lot of Sanders supporters that they totally would’ve won if they hadn’t been cheated out of the nomination, it gave them the impression that they have a bigger support base than they actually do, which could be a recipe for a huge problem come 2020.

    It’s happening already. That’s why Sanders’ supporters are pushing for Nancy Pelosi’s ouster and replacement with Tim Ryan. If Ryan is such a firebrand, make him the face of the party on TV. But we really need someone with Pelosi’s tactical skills to figure out how the Democrats can exert legislative influence even as a minority party in Congress.

  151. 151.

    Omnes Omnibus

    November 17, 2016 at 11:04 pm

    @slag: In my family, the only Bernie supporter was my unbelievably decent and idealistic 15 y/o nephew. I think this says something.

  152. 152.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    November 17, 2016 at 11:08 pm

    @SiubhanDuinne:

    commiserating with a server

    Careful, you know how much trouble that caused Sec. Clinton.

  153. 153.

    Adam L Silverman

    November 17, 2016 at 11:09 pm

    @Omnes Omnibus: And its not that Senator Sanders is wrong on his signature issue/issues, but there’s so much more that has to be interlinked with it and for so many different constituencies that he really seems somewhere between obsessed or naive.

  154. 154.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    November 17, 2016 at 11:10 pm

    @Jeffro: But Trump’s got them all on NDA’s, so they’ll never tell.

  155. 155.

    Chris

    November 17, 2016 at 11:17 pm

    @tobie:
    @Adam L Silverman:

    People last year and this year were talking about whether Sanders would finally “bring socialism into American politics…” I’d be more terrified that what he’s brought in is the tradition of fringe left assholes engaging in politics as theater who accomplish nothing for their own program but fracture their side of the spectrum, take voters from the center left, and make it easier for the right to win, as you see in some European nations.

    (We’ve always had them, but as fringe third-party assholes like Stein and Nader. Sanders is inside the party and has just enough of a following to be dangerous).

  156. 156.

    Omnes Omnibus

    November 17, 2016 at 11:22 pm

    @Adam L Silverman: Yep, and an idealistic 15 y/o could easily buy in.

  157. 157.

    Jeffro

    November 17, 2016 at 11:25 pm

    @BillinGlendaleCA:

    But Trump’s got them all on NDA’s, so they’ll never tell.

    No he doesn’t (and can’t). Come on now.

  158. 158.

    Jeffro

    November 17, 2016 at 11:28 pm

    @Quinerly:

    Tim Kaine is a good, good man. I hate these people. Yes, that’s a strong word. Despise, is that stronger?

    They’re horrific people. Think of what it takes to slime someone for 40 years…”win”…and then think, ‘hey, I bet we can try and spread that slime to one of the most liked, most respected Senators (and former Governors) in recent memory”.

    Let’s get fired up, ready to go! VA stayed blue by a few points, but we know we can’t take anything for granted anymore. Get up with your local Dem party, get to a Ralph Northam for Gov event, and write Kaine to tell him we need him to rally the troops here! Kaine’s election’s coming up in 2018, practically next week.

  159. 159.

    Major Major Major Major

    November 17, 2016 at 11:30 pm

    @Chris:

    the tradition of fringe left assholes engaging in politics as theater who accomplish nothing for their own program but fracture their side of the spectrum, take voters from the center left, and make it easier for the right to win, as you see in some European nations.

    This is, historically speaking, what it means to

    bring socialism into American politics

  160. 160.

    tobie

    November 17, 2016 at 11:36 pm

    @Chris: I’m still sore on this point because the Sanders’ supporters I know either voted for Stein or grudgingly opted for Hillary, and the millennials I’ve spoken to don’t feel much commitment to the party because of its supposed “neoliberal” bent. We’ll see how things develop. Maybe the latest Sanders media surge will subside once we’ve had time to digest the results of the election. If not the party’s headed toward a civil war at a time when we really need unity.

  161. 161.

    Chris

    November 17, 2016 at 11:52 pm

    @tobie:

    See, the Sanders supporters I know are all people who accepted the results and voted for Hillary. They had issues with her, heck, I had issues with her, when have we ever had a politician we don’t have issues with – but weren’t in freak mode about how she’d be Worse Than Bush She Sold Us Out. I think this is why it took me longer than most to start disliking Sanders; the supporters I knew personally exhibited none of the madness that the “bros” are all about.

    I have lots of sympathy for those who want to move the party further to the economic left, as well, but I’d like some acknowledgment that the party has moved dramatically in that direction in the last eight years, and that Sanders is, at best, hopping on a bandwagon. The party should continue to be moved left, but it’s not the enemy.

  162. 162.

    Major Major Major Major

    November 18, 2016 at 12:00 am

    @Chris:

    I have lots of sympathy for those who want to move the party further to the economic left, as well, but I’d like some acknowledgment that the party has moved dramatically in that direction in the last eight years, and that Sanders is, at best, hopping on a bandwagon.

    The Sandernistas I know would never accept this obvious reality.

  163. 163.

    Omnes Omnibus

    November 18, 2016 at 12:07 am

    @Major Major Major Major: My 15 y/o nephew got it. He preferred Bernie; he backed Hillz.

  164. 164.

    tobie

    November 18, 2016 at 12:09 am

    @Chris: I agree with what you say. Occupy Wall Street probably did the most in pushing the party left. Seems like the most important movements the past two years have been pretty spontaneous manifestations (Occupy, BLM, Standing Rock, etc.).

  165. 165.

    Adam L Silverman

    November 18, 2016 at 12:09 am

    @Chris: OT: give these a look
    https://www.usajobs.gov/GetJob/ViewDetails/440844400/

    https://www.usajobs.gov/GetJob/ViewDetails/455426300/

    https://www.usajobs.gov/GetJob/ViewDetails/454299000/

  166. 166.

    Major Major Major Major

    November 18, 2016 at 12:11 am

    @Omnes Omnibus: Oh, you know I meant Berniebros.

  167. 167.

    Omnes Omnibus

    November 18, 2016 at 12:14 am

    @tobie: Their views? Yes. Tactics? No. Sadly, we need a charismatic leader – competent technocrats are not electable. Clooney? The Rock? Beyonce?

  168. 168.

    Chris

    November 18, 2016 at 12:16 am

    @Major Major Major Major:

    Addendum to above:

    I’m increasingly realizing that the left can’t govern. Not in the sense that it’s incompetent or unrealistic, but in the sense that that is literally not what it’s for. “The left” isn’t LBJ and Congress passing civil rights, “the left” is MLK and the rest of the civil rights community doing all the activism and advocacy and lobbying that pressured the politicians into doing that. “The left” isn’t FDR passing the New Deal, it’s all the union activists and populist politicians who, in FDR’s own words, “made him do it even though he wanted to do it.” You need activists and agitators outside or on the fringes of the system, which is what “the left” does best, and you need sympathetic “establishment” politicians who’ll listen if you prove that there’s an audience for what you’re doing.

    I would love to see the economic progressives do the former in future years (Warren at least was pretty good as a voice for that viewpoint in the Obama era and I haven’t given up on her yet). The problem is, that’s not what the “Berniebros” or, it’s becoming apparent, Sanders are interested in. They’ve got their eyes on the Democratic Party leadership and the White House. They want to take the “establishment” role instead, and it’s just not the kind of thing they’re good at.

  169. 169.

    Chris

    November 18, 2016 at 12:19 am

    @tobie:

    I’m a fan of all these things. I’d like to see them at some point solidify into institutions instead of movements, the kind of thing we had in the labor movement a hundred years ago – because you can’t do long term politics without it.

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Thank you bigly! Going to bed now, but will look at them tomorrow.

  170. 170.

    Omnes Omnibus

    November 18, 2016 at 12:23 am

    @Chris: No, the (center-)left is is also institutional competence. It is the thousands of people who managed the New Deal and those who kept it functioning for all these years.

  171. 171.

    Major Major Major Major

    November 18, 2016 at 12:23 am

    @Chris: Activists gonna activist! But, um, don’t try explaining that to them, they get pissy.

  172. 172.

    Quinerly

    November 18, 2016 at 12:25 am

    @Chris:
    Yep.

  173. 173.

    Quinerly

    November 18, 2016 at 12:27 am

    @Omnes Omnibus:
    Bruce? White working class? (Giggles)

  174. 174.

    Quinerly

    November 18, 2016 at 12:37 am

    @tobie:
    Thread is dying but I’ll add this… Tim Ryan interview with Maddow was less than impressive. He ain’t got “it.”

  175. 175.

    tobie

    November 18, 2016 at 12:42 am

    @Chris: I don’t think the split in the party right now is between left and right or left and centrist. I think it’s between two different approaches to politics: populist or technocratic. I personally have more sympathy for the latter. Populism often ends up being about nursing grievances.

  176. 176.

    Omnes Omnibus

    November 18, 2016 at 12:49 am

    @tobie: Populism scares me. It can be ugly.

  177. 177.

    Mnemosyne

    November 18, 2016 at 1:22 am

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    Okay, I restrained myself for a few days, but the obsession flared up again:

    We signed a treaty with a king whose head is now in a basket
    Would you like to take it out and ask it?
    “What should we do, King Louis’ head?”
    “Uh, do whatever you want, I’m super dead!”

  178. 178.

    WTF

    November 18, 2016 at 1:39 am

    @Adam L Silverman:

    @WTF: Comment some time when you have no class.

    Rodney, is that you? I do that too, trying to break the habit.

    “Comment when you are not in class?”
    Mother was an editor but I just edit everyone else’s writing, no charge.

  179. 179.

    CarolDuhart2

    November 18, 2016 at 2:00 am

    Contact Steinmart

    There is an Ivanka Trump boycott in place. #GrabYourWallet..

  180. 180.

    BellyCat

    November 18, 2016 at 9:35 am

    @Adam L Silverman: Were you hired back?

  181. 181.

    Adam L Silverman

    November 18, 2016 at 11:18 am

    @BellyCat: No. Nor would I ever expect to be.

  182. 182.

    retr2327

    November 18, 2016 at 2:36 pm

    @Adam L Silverman: You know, that explains a lot. Your posts don’t usually include that sort of typo, so I was a bit surprised to see it. But yes, correcting typos and other errors in the comments is a PITA.

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