From commentor Wade S, concerning his Boo:
Choose a caption:
“Stunned by political reverses, Office Dog develops thousand-yard stare.”
“Office Dog maintains attitude of imperturbable equanimity.”
**********
What’s on the agenda as we buckle down for the fight going forward?
It took me a long time to gather the energy just to watch the video of Hillary’s first public appearance since the election, a (pre-scheduled) speech to the Children’s Defense Fund annual gala. It’s worth the emotional effort, although if you’re a crier like me you may want to do so in private:
From the CNN transcript:
… THE ARC OF THE MORAL UNIVERSE IS LONG BUT IT TENDS TOWARD JUSTICE. NOW SOMETIMES IT CAN FEEL AWFULLY LONG, BELIEVE ME I KNOW, BUT I ALSO KNOW IT DOES THAT. IT BENDS TOWARDS JUSTICE BECAUSE PEOPLE LIKE MARIAN [AND] SO MANY OF YOU, AND THE PEOPLE IN THIS AUDIENCE I’VE HAD THE PRIVILEGE OF WORKING WITH AND ADMIRE FOR SO MANY DECADES, AND YOU REFUSE TO STOP PUSHING AND WHEN YOU GET KNOCKED DOWN, YOU GET BACK UP.
I OFTEN QUOTE HER WHEN SHE SAYS THAT SERVICE IS THE RENT WE PAY FOR LIVING. YOU DON’T GET TO STOP PAYING RENT JUST BECAUSE THINGS DON’T GO YOUR WAY. I KNOW MANY OF YOU ARE DEEPLY DISAPPOINTED ABOUT THE RESULTS OF THE ELECTION. I AM TOO, MORE THAN I CAN EVER EXPRESS BUT AS I SAID LAST WEEK, OUR CAMPAIGN WAS NEVER ABOUT ONE PERSON OR EVEN ONE ELECTION. IT WAS ABOUT THE COUNTRY WE LOVE AND ABOUT [BUILDING] AN AMERICA THAT IS HOPEFUL, INCLUSIVE AND — I DIDN’T GET INTO PUBLIC SERVICE TO HOLD HIGH OFFICE. [APPLAUSE] 45 YEARS AGO THAT WOULD HAVE SEEMED AN ABSOLUTE INCREDIBLY LONG HEADED VIEW BUT I DID DECIDE TO BE AN ACTIVIST AND USE MY LAW DEGREE TO HELP KIDS. EVERY CHILD DESERVES TO HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO LIVE UP TO HIS OR HER GOD-GIVEN POTENTIAL AND I BELIEVE THE MEASURE OF ANY SOCIETY IS HOW WE TREAT OUR CHILDREN.
AS WE MOVE FORWARD INTO A NEW AND IN MANY WAYS UNCERTAIN FUTURE, I THINK THAT MUST BE THE TASK FOR AMERICA AND OURSELVES. DESPITE THE PROGRESS, AND WE HAVE MADE PROGRESS UNDER PRESIDENT OBAMA, MORE THAN 31 MILLION CHILDREN STILL LIVE AT OR NEAR POVERTY IN AMERICA. AND I HOPED TO HAVE HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO BUILD ON THE PROGRESS THAT PRESIDENT OBAMA HAS MADE BECAUSE I KNOW THAT WE ARE STRONGER TOGETHER WHEN WE ARE LIFTING EACH OTHER UP…
… SO WE HAVE WORK TO DO AND FOR THE SAKE OF OUR CHILDREN AND OUR FAMILIES AND OUR COUNTRY, I ASK YOU TO STAY ENGAGED, STAY ENGAGED ON EVERY LEVEL. WE NEED YOU. AMERICA NEEDS YOU. YOUR ENERGY, YOUR AMBITIONS AND YOUR TALENT. THAT’S HOW WE GET THROUGH THIS. THAT’S HOW WE HELP TO MAKE OUR CONTRIBUTIONS TO BEND AT THE ARC OF THE MORAL UNIVERSE POURED JUSTICE. I KNOW THIS IS AN EASY, I KNOW THAT OVER THE PAST WEEK A LOT OF PEOPLE HAVE ASKED THEMSELVES WHETHER AMERICA IS THE COUNTRY WE THOUGHT IT WAS. THE DIVISIONS LAID THERE BY THIS ELECTION RUN DEEP BUT PLEASE LISTEN TO ME WHEN I SAY THIS. AMERICA IS WORTH IT. OUR CHILDREN ARE WORTH IT. BELIEVE IN OUR COUNTRY, FIGHT FOR OUR VALUES AND NEVER, EVER GIVE UP BECAUSE OVER THE PAST TWO YEARS I HAVE MET SO MANY PEOPLE WHO REAFFIRMED MY FAITH IN OUR COUNTRY, ALL KINDS OF PEOPLE…
NOW I CAN’T AND YOU CAN’T GO BACK IN TIME AND HUG ALL THOSE CHILDREN THAT PRECEDED US BUT WE CAN DO THAT NOW. WE CAN REACH OUT TO MAKE SURE EVERY CHILD HAS A CHAMPION BECAUSE I AM AS SURE OF THIS IS ANYTHING I HAVE EVER KNOWN. AMERICA IS STILL THE GREATEST COUNTRY IN THE WORLD. THIS IS STILL THE PLACE WHERE ANYONE CAN BEAT THE ODDS. IT’S UP TO EACH AND EVERY ONE OF US TO KEEP WORKING TO MAKE AMERICA A BETTER AND STRONGER AND FAIRER…
As another Democratic “loser” once said: For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die.
Schlemazel
doggy looks like I feel
WereBear
I agree with all of it. But it is not enough.
I have been gnawing on the question of why all those people sat on their asses and didn’t vote; yes, like a dog with a bone. And I’ve been talking to them, in person, and online. Why didn’t they see the vision we did? Why didn’t they get on board? Why didn’t they pick our side instead of not picking a side at all?
IT IS BECAUSE WE ARE WEAK.
We mock the republican voters for wanting a strongman, and yet that is inevitably what frightened people want. And yes, they are apathic voters out there… but that is because they feel frightened and powerless.
It is not instinctive to move towards weakness in such a mental state.
And what have we Dems been showing in the way of leadership during this absolute crisis?
Harry Reid, WHO IS OUT OF POWER, speaks out against the hate.
President Obama said he will devote himself to organizing. Which is great, but that will take place ONCE HE LEAVES POWER.
I have been trying to get through to the new Minority Senate Leader, whose phone is always busy, but when I call I will not hear anything but embarrassed silence when I ask how they are going to fight this thing, because the public statement I got from Schumer said he wasn’t sure if he was going to cooperate with the new Administration, or not. THIS IS SAYING I HAVE NO POWER.
This is not leadership that people need in these trying times. This is why people stayed home.
Yes, republicans break the rules. And then laugh in our faces and defy us, dare us, to do something about it. Over and over again, Dem leaders don’t hold them to the rules they broke. That may be the ethical stance, but while we don’t break rules, we don’t make the republicans stick with them either.
We are looking at President-elect Trump because the republicans broke the rules. The press shirked their responsibility. This assclown was supposed to be vetted. And he was not.
Are we going to stand by while the leaders of our nation just shrug at this?
NO. We should not. We are the very last firewall; we citizens.
We must demand vetting NOW. Because why the hell should they get away with their biggest middle finger yet? Because we were too spineless to make them follow the rules?
DEMAND VETTING. NOW.
While there is still time.
Baud
I am ashamed of my own weakness, but I’m still choosing to cocoon myself from this stuff.
rikyrah
Morning, Everyone???
rikyrah
@WereBear:
Amen
WereBear
I will be emailing the local Progressive leader, who has been at this for decades. She will know lots of people.
If we cry out that we want vetting now… we want our security organizations and the press and everyone in government to do their jobs…
What could possibly be wrong with that? WE are doing our jobs, as citizens, to demand the rules be followed.
Let them do their jobs.
Mustang Bobby
@WereBear:
FIFY.
WereBear
@Mustang Bobby: YES.
We have that right. And we must use it. To hold all the lines.
Baud
@rikyrah: Morning, rikyrah.
raven
Headed down for sunrise. Here’s the big boy last night.
JPL
Morning all. This is the first time in over a week, that I slept past 4:30. I’m still not hopeful, that we will get through this though.
Immanentize
Hello All. I still want to stay in bed with my cat. But I must disagree with Wear Bear. This is not just an issue of strong versus weak. That fundamentally buys into the fascist narrative or the social Darwinism idea that losers deserve to lose. That is Trumpism in a nutshell. The Democratic Party is a vast coalition of different interested groups. We may not be as effective as we ought to be. But our difference, which is difficult to manage, is our strength.
I have been working on a draft essay about the election and I think the voting question is not about the candidate (strong or weak) but rather about injustice versus justice. Look at Hillary’s speech. It is about justice. But justice is a high order learned trait. The feeling of Injustice is innate. Even if that injustice that is felt is not objectively true. But personal injustice will almost always beat out the call to group justice. Not so much strong versus weak, much more ‘I feel your pain’ versus ‘Please feel someone else’s pain.’
Baud
@raven: Gorgeous. You have a knack for lighting.
JPL
@raven: Ah, he just looks content. It’s a beautiful picture.
Mustang Bobby
@raven: Oh, wow…Dignified beauty. (or… “Is that a squirrel I see before me…?”)
OzarkHillbilly
@raven: Contentment.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Baud: Golden hour*, Baud.
*Hour around sunrise and sunset. BTW, for infrared the golden hour is high noon.
ETA: Reminds me that I need to go to the Huntington in the afternoon since the sun sets now before they close at 5pm.
debbie
@WereBear:
Call me stupid or still half-asleep, but what good will vetting do at this point? Trump’s already been elected.
WereBear
You have fallen into the very pit I am trying to drag us out of.
Oh, we can’t raise our voices. We have to be polite. We must point out that nasty republicans stole our lunch money again, and won’t teacher do something about it? No? They aren’t going to hold republicans to the rules the rest of us follow. Well, then, we will have a well-mannered snit and point out to everyone who shares our bloody noses and pulled hair and empty pockets that we are nicer than they are!
That and a buck will get your lunch money stolen AGAIN.
We have been “appealing to teacher” for SIXTEEN years now. Oh, the courts will sort this out. YES THEY DID THEY PUT BUSH IN. We will register more voters. YES WE DID AND THE REPUBLICANS TOOK THEIR VOTES AWAY. We will appeal to reason. YES WE DID AND PEOPLE STAYED HOME.
It is not crawling on their level to demand they follow the rules. Frightened people flee from weakness. That is hardwired and they aren’t seeing the nuances of this. Without political sophistication, their lizard brains say, DON’T ALLY YOURSELF WITH WEAKNESS. And they don’t. They were smart enough not to vote for Trump as a “protest vote,” because they are not hateful people. But they could not vote for WEAKNESS.
Because that is what Dems are. In this terrible terrible crisis, their moves are ones that still are weak. WEAK AS WATER. Reid is OUT OF POWER. President Obama promises action WHEN HE LEAVES POWER. Schumer isn’t sure if he will support the new Administration or not. He is saying I HAVE NO POWER.
That is what all the voters who stayed home were trying to say. They were desperately trying to send the Democrats a message TO FIGHT.
I, for one, have heard them. I’ve been talking to them for a full solid dismaying week. Okay. They have a point.
Why are we rolling over to let Trump rip our guts out? WHY?
If we won’t FIGHT — legally, morally, doing our duties as citizens — why should they ally themselves with us?
Baud
@WereBear:
Sorry, WereBear. Hillary fought, and they stayed home. By all means, organize, but I’m not ready to start slagging our party leaders just yet.
Emma
@Baud: Agreed.
WereBear
@debbie: That is the wrong way to think.
The new boss who is starting in a week, wasn’t he just convicted of embezzlement/
Yes.
And they are letting him take the job?
He’s been hired.
SO WHAT. SO FUCKING WHAT. He’s an embezzler. He’s show himself to be incapable of DOING THE JOB.
Let me be perfectly clear:
Our job is to demand Trump’s fitness for the position to be evaluated. And this extends to his entire administration… which he picked. The taint is on all of them. No “we’ll get rid of Trump and give you Pence instead.”
Is it our job to figure out what comes next? Do we have to do EVERYTHING?
Apparently. But let’s, for one screaming crisis time in our lives, STOP NITPICKING. Let’s focus. It doesn’t matter. We have to MOVE now, and figure it out as we go. Because THE RULES HAVE CHANGED.
THIS is how republicans get their boot stamping on our face and we can’t get if off. They spit on the rules. They dare us to do something about it.
And then we get paralyzed AND WE DON’T.
The moral action at this point is to DEMAND THEY FOLLOW THE RULES.
Kay
Just a huge con. The “infrastructure plan” is the same by the way. It’s federal subsidies for private companies.
“Public private partnerships” where the private interest owns the asset. We pay for it, they own it. They are going to be lining up at the Trump Trough.
I was hoping I’d at least get a tax cut out of this so I could stick it in savings to buffer against the looting that will be going on unchecked, but it looks like tax cuts are only going to the wealthiest.
Another Scott
@WereBear: Nancy Pelosi is giving a press conference at 1045 ET today. I hope she’ll address these issues and it will be the start of sustained and relentless public pushback by the Democrats.
Fingers crossed.
Hillary’s speech was a good one. Too many haters still yell and hate anything she has to say, but they need to be said, regardless.
Don’t give up. Keep fighting.
Cheers,
Scott.
OzarkHillbilly
@WereBear:
Who’s rolling over?
BillinGlendaleCA
@Kay:
That’s the Republican way.
WereBear
@Baud: It is not slagging our leaders to tell them to follow the rules, is it? It is not wrong to say DO IT WE HAVE YOUR BACK.
They need us. They are trying but we have not yet spoken in one voice. We are doing the usual Dem fragmentation. Everybody pick a topic, and so some of us rally for health care, others against bigotry, others for justice issues.
THEY CANNOT BE ALL THINGS AT ONCE. THEY ARE PLEADING FOR A DIRECTION.
Let’s give them one. A DEMOCRATIC party one. MAKE THE REPUBLICANS follow the rules. FOR ONCE.
Yes, damn it, I am screaming and shouting and carrying on like my hair is on fire. Because it is.
THIS IS AN EMERGENCY.
The republicans spit on the rules and we let them get away with it. WHY?
Kay
I think we can all relax about Trump shaking up the financial sector. This is an absolute bonanza for them. All of Trump’s half-assed proposals so far boil down to “privatization” from education to infrastructure. It’s the absolute height of “crony capitalism”. His “K-12 education plan” is a straight transfer of 20 billion a year from public schools to private schools.
Patricia Kayden
@raven: Strong and resolute. He looks how I feel after this election. Nice photo.
debbie
@Kay:
I just listened to an NPR interview with the head of the border guard union. It won’t be up yet, but it might be worth listening to just to hear Steve Inskeep’s calling bullshit (politely of course) on the policy about the wall. After all the furor during the campaign, this guy admits that only another couple hundred miles’ worth of fence will be needed.
Baud
@Kay:
That’s the one thing Trump didn’t lie about, so no sympathies.
@WereBear: It’s slagging them to preemptively call them weak. Again, by all means, organize and let them know what you want them to fight for.
WereBear
We all are. If we let this incredibly un-qualified person take office.
If you find out your doctor lost his license, so you let him operate? If your lawyer was censured by the Bar Association, do you let him handle your case? If your accountant can’t add and subtract, do you go somewhere else?
For the love of every suffering person who will come to us in the next four years and beg us for help, why can’t we demand this be addressed NOW?
We are making it complicated when it is soooooooo simple. The republicans broke the rules. And we act like they didn’t OVER AND OVER AND OVER.
This is how they win. Because we won’t call them out and make it stick.
That’s the vital element that has been missing. THEY FUCKING CHEAT. Why do we let them get away with it?
debbie
@WereBear:
I think it might be more effective to loudly point out where the campaign promises are not met. Like McConnell’s statement less than 72 hours after the election that coal won’t bring jobs back to Kentucky, or what I heard earlier this morning that there really won’t be a wall (let alone Mexico paying for it).
How about setting up a website called “Feeling Ripped Off Yet?”
Patricia Kayden
@WereBear: It’s perfectly okay to contact our Democratic politicians and ask them what they plan to do about key parts of Trump’s agenda. At least that will let them know that their constituents care about them opposing Trump at every juncture.
Patricia Kayden
@WereBear:
We can’t stop him from taking office. We can demand that our Democratic Representatives and Senators do what they can to slow down the implementation of his agenda though. That should be our focus.
WereBear
@Baud: I gave them a WEEK. To demand the republicans follow the rules.
Instead, they are back to business as usual. Acting like this is normal.
IT HASN’T BEEN NORMAL SINCE 2000.
The Dems are going to do what they have always done for 16 years. WHICH HAS NOT WORKED.
I’m not sitting by and letting them do it again. Why is everyone acting like this is normal and business as usual? When it is NOT.
IT IS NOT.
They are taking over and we are saying, “Okay, but next time, play nice.”
And the republicans go, “Like that’s going to happen, Libtards.”
OzarkHillbilly
@WereBear:
Bullshit.
WereBear
@debbie: YEAH. That worked so well last time. And the time before that. And the time before that. And…
WE CANNOT DO WHAT WE HAVE DONE BEFORE.
WE GET MORE OF THE SAME ONLY WORSE.
Baud
@WereBear: I don’t want to fight you. But I honestly don’t know from your posts here what you want them to do. And I’m not down with the idea that Trump not taking office is a litmus test that the Dems must meet or else we give up.
Elmo
@WereBear: What rules? You keep saying the Republicans broke the rules, they cheated, etc. and we should demand that the rules be followed.
What rules are you talking about?
debbie
@WereBear:
I apologize. Maybe I don’t understand what you mean by vetting. What specifically is it vetting will do and will accomplish? At this point, what good will close examinations accomplish?
GregB
@debbie:
Inskeep: “You mean this was all about 300 miles of wall.?”
Kay
@debbie:
The Wall was never anything more than a way to gin up hatred. It’s a rhetorical device- build a “big beautiful wall” to protect you from these brown people. Trump is actually in favor of the thing that scares middle class people the most-bringing in relatively high wage and high skill workers.
Self-government takes some work. If they’re too lazy to read anything and getting all their “news” from Facebook then they need consequences or they’ll continue to be lazy. I don’t care what happens to them under Trump. I’m not their mom.
Peale
@Kay: the election clearly was a rejection of neoliberalism. I’ve been told that. I mean trump said he wanted to redo NAFTA to bring the jobs back. Clearly the public private partnerships that are also part of neoliberalism were rejected. Nope. Looks like we’re getting harder faster neoliberalism, but without the multiculturalist hope that we’d all be in it together.
debbie
@GregB:
Loved the way the guy stumbled and stammered.
Gindy51
And then you have the FADA coming up that will surely pass and be signed as soon as it hits Trump’s desk. The GOP’s Anti-LGBT, Anti-Women ‘Religious Freedom’ Law on Steroids… Read Daily Beast’s take on it and be ready to barf. It’s worse than anything the states like IN or NC thought up.
debbie
@Kay:
Except that Trump’s supporters took him literally and in fact are expecting a physical wall.
debbie
@Kay:
Me neither. When the rabble he created realizes how much of his bullshit was only that, I picture them turning on Trump the way the crowds turned on Quadaffi and tore him into pieces. I don’t care if that makes me a bitch.
Quinerly
@Baud:
Good Morning, Baud! I’m in the same place as you. I feel like the walking dead….maybe shell-shocked and going through the bare minimum of the motions… don’t want to face the world/people. I’m an upper middle class white woman. The few times in the last few days that I have had to look in the face of other white people that I don’t personally know, I find myself wondering if they voted for this scum or somehow contributed to this by not voting or voting for Stein. That’s why the encounter with the woman in Lowe’s was so odd yesterday. We both looked at each other the same way…sizing each other up. When our eyes met we knew we were on the same side and then both just started crying in the middle of the appliance department. I’m normally a very social person. By nature, sometimes I prefer to talk to strangers. Just don’t want to face anyone who I don’t know very well…and then only about 3 people in my life. Never have experienced anything like this.
OzarkHillbilly
@debbie: It sets up the impeachment proceedings. BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA….. Sometimes I just crack me up.
On the more serious side, it sets up the theme of venal corruption for 2018. It won’t flip the House or the Senate that year but it’s a theme to build on for 2020.
Peale
@Kay: yep. My guess is that when “NAFTA” is renegotied it will be about taking control of Mexico’s oil industry and that’s about it. The trump voters are convinced that Mexico needs to be punished for having lots of poor people who make low wages but have enough education and skills to work in modern factories. we want to make them poorer.
Another Scott
@WereBear: It may not seem that way at the moment, but the Teabaggers are going to be battling each other very shortly – Dana Milbank:
They aren’t Invincible Supermen who will win every battle. They’re not all on the same page.
The corporate wing of the GOP wants its cheap foreign workers, they want to reward their oligarchs, and they want adulation for being MotUs.
They have to pass a budget. They have to raise the debt ceiling. Congress will have to spend a lot of money to pay for the things they promised their voters, and those things conflict with the Teabagger/Norquist true-believers.
It doesn’t hurt for the Democrats to let the country see how incompetent Trumps Minions are for a few days (“when your opponents are hitting themselves in the face, don’t get in the way!”) and to slowly and carefully build a strategy for fighting them. As Baud pointed out a few days ago, the GOP didn’t announce it’s obstruction policy before Obama took the oath…
Let’s see what Nancy has to say today.
Cheers,
Scott.
OzarkHillbilly
@debbie: Some enterprising reporter somewhere took a little initiative and asked a bunch of Trump supporters if they really believed Trump was going to build the wall. Not one of them did.
Quinerly
@debbie:
Just heard the interview. Definitely worth a listen.
Kay
@debbie:
Does it matter though? Trump blatantly lied all through the campaign. Every day. Tens of times a day. What’s to stop them from just lying every day as President? They’re already doing it. They’re claiming a “low level staffer” requested security clearances for his kids. Oh, bullshit. After 4 years of the President and his team blatantly lying who will believe anything at all? We’re outside the normal bounds now. Not only did he get away with lying it worked in his favor!
It already seems like a long time ago that media spent 12 months parsing every word of Rice’s statement on Benghazi looking for the lie- the smoking gun. It won’t be a big deal anymore if the President and his team lie- just business as usual.
WereBear
@Another Scott: Love ya Scott. I look forward to what Nancy Pelosi has to say, also.
Will there be a concrete action? Anything less than: Trump is not qualified to take office, we will be doing what the republicans failed to do is weak sauce.
Throw the ball back at the republicans. Let them prove he is fit for office. And this goes for his whole planned administration. None of Dump Trump and get Pence. Pence was his pick.
Why are we shrugging when we know he is not qualified? It never came up before? Well, this is the 21st Century. We are supposed to be able to adapt to change.
Quinerly
@Kay:
Oh, he will lie daily…through his tweets. It will be his own personal, state owned news. MSM says black and he will say white. Gas lighting.
debbie
@OzarkHillbilly:
The ones I’ve heard have taken Trump at his word. Maybe it’s just an Ohio thing.
Kay
@Peale:
I’ll go you one further. I don’t think they “renegotiate” NAFTA at all. Trade isn’t really an issue outside the upper midwest states. Both Parties have used it as a political football in Ohio and Michigan for 30 years. Trump won’t be any different. The stances on trade are just meaningless without really diving into what are complex issues. Rob Portman ran as a fair trader. It means nothing.
TPP would have superceded NAFTA. That WAS the renegotaition of NAFTA.
If I had been a debate moderator I would have asked Trump to list the countries in TPP. I bet he can’t do it. It’s just rhetoric.
Self–government takes work. If people aren’t willing to do the work they’ll get bad government. Nothing of value is free. It requires an investment in time and effort they weren’t willing to make.
Central Planning
@Another Scott:
I think we should grab their hand and then make them punch themselves in the face, and then say “Why are you punching yourself?” That’s more satisfying.
JPL
@Kay: That would just be an example of the “gotcha media”. Knowledge is for the elitists.
MomSense
Just going to drop this link on the opportunists who are jockeying for power and influence by undermining opposition to hair furor.
Vichy Senators
MomSense
@Kay:
I’ve been saying all along that Democrats blaming trade for everything is a huge mistake especially since the death of manufacturing happened long before NAFTA.
OzarkHillbilly
@debbie: I have not been paying that much attention one way or the other because like everyone else around here, we know it’s BS. That particular article (a # of other issues were queried as well) stuck out to me tho because they were all saying “We know he’s lying but we’re voting for him anyway.”
raven
The water is 62 and the air is 58 so it’s no problem for the husky to do his favorite thing. Now to load up my great and get back down there.
WereBear
@MomSense: Momsense, have you added your story to CouldHappentoYou, which is up and running?
Kay
@MomSense:
Did they even look at the “infrastructure plan” before they ran around saying they support it? It’s complete bullshit.
MomSense
@WereBear:
I have to figure out my log in. I’m home today so that is on my list.
MomSense
@Kay:
Doubt it. China seems to think they are going to help us rebuild our infrastructure. You know the Tad Devine Paul Manafort connection which involved both working for the same client in Ukraine seems to be increasingly relevant to our current predicament.
Kay
@MomSense:
Trade is complicated. People who understand it don’t blame everything on trade. Liberal Democrats who oppose trade agreements have specific things they want. For TPP they wanted 2 things- get rid of the investor-state tribunal (which almost everyone now agrees was too friendly to monied interests) and make sanctions enforceable- they want a US trade prosecutor and process, essentially.
rikyrah
Phuck Bernie Sanders
Kay
@MomSense:
Well, if by “help” they mean we pay for the improved or new asset and they own it, they’re right! They’re helping. By agreeing to let the public fund private assets.
MomSense
@Kay:
I think trump will outsource roads and bridges just like he did his ugly suits.
ArchTeryx
I think today’s going to be the day I call my two senators (both Ds, one of which is our new minority leader) and my Congressman (also a very strong D) and remind them that the lives of their constituents are at stake as the Republicans try to undo the entire health care safety net in one swipe before Trump is even inaugurated.
The lives of their constituents, like me.
GregB
But didn’t Billy Joel write this song during the Clinton Presidency in 1982?<—-Kidding.
Well we're living here in Allentown
And they're closing all the factories down
Out in Bethlehem they're killing time
Filling out forms
Standing in line
D58826
so looks like we get son-in-law whither we want him or not – http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/heres-how-trump-could-put-son-in-law-at-heart-of-white-house/ar-AAkoylA?li=BBnb7Kz&ocid=iehp
Nikki Haley for S-O-S???? I think I’d prefer Bolton. At least he has some experience in the field of foreign policy, even if it is only to try and start wars and blow up UN headquarters (or maybe just the top 1/2 doz floors)
According to a report in a British paper, Comey gave the Trump team a heads up on the Oct. letter. I guess it is the last act of the long running off-Broadway play ‘The vast right wing conspiracy’ staring the Ken Star witch hunters.
Press reports are that all of the usual ground work before a meeting with a head of state has not been done in preparation for Trump meeting with the Japanese PM. That should go well, what with the Japanese sense of decorum and manners
And last but not least, yesterday I said that there are no more sharks to jump. Well looks like there is at least one more. The PM of Australia wanted to congratulate Das Fuehrer, so he got his private phone number from golfer Greg Norman and they talked over an open line. Now I reality I doubt that they said anything that you be embarrassed to say in front of your Mother but after the non-stop ‘e-mail and secret documents’ it is beyond words.
MomSense
@GregB:
Reagan killed their manufacturing jobs but they love him anyway, the stupid bastards.
Peale
@rikyrah: well they will be doing it a lot. Homophobia is cheap, budget neutral and can be shifted to the states for enforcement through religious freedom laws. That the GOP can pass. Religious tests for Muslims entering the country…cheap cheap cheap. And so we’ll get that bill. Cheering on police. Cheap. Rounding up the leaders of BLM for being terrorists…a rounding error. That’s how we pay for tax cuts these days.
Quinerly
@D58826:
Do you have a link to the Brit paper reporting that. The Google is not helping me. Thanks.
D58826
Kay since you seem to be on the thread and have on the ground experience in Ohio maybe you can shed some light on this. The democratic bench, i.e. state and local office holders, has pretty much ceased to exist since 2010, I think the number is close to a 1000 state legislative seats lost since 2010. Any idea why? Some of the usual suspects are blaming Obama but I suspect it is more complicated. Or is it as ‘simple’ as the self-ordering or the reds and blues into their own enclaves. The nature of our political structure being built around land giving the red enclaves more clout than their number justify?
Maybe that is to large a topic for a comment but deserves its own thread. But unless the democrats reverse the process they will be come the party of Los Angles, San Francisco and Seattle in the west, Boston, NY and Philly in the east and Chicago in the mid west. Maybe in time Charlotte and Atlanta in the south.
SiubhanDuinne
@D58826:
Clever. Golf clap.
OzarkHillbilly
@Peale: Silly you. Tax cuts pay for themselves.
Another Holocene Human
For Emma from the dead thread:
@Emma: okay, here’s the thing. Gwen Graham is running for governor. Note I’d the time to ask her to come out to your group’s holiday dinner to give a speech. Make her go all over the state. Nan Rich did a lousy job of that, Crist won primary and then South Florida dems stayed home because Crist. Let’s not have a repeat of that.
I am going to My dem party meeting. Get involved with yours. Bring friends.
Kay
@Peale:
Lewandowski gave a speech in the UK where he credited Comey with Trump’s victory:
Comey is still employed and no one is even questioning his or the FBI’s role in this. It’s scary to have the national police force working on behalf of Donald Trump. It’s not fair to the people who didn’t vote for Trump to ask us to pay for the electioneering division of Trump’s national police force. How is anyone supposed to find anything they do credible? They’re a joke.
japa21
This may have been noted before, and if so, I apologize. According to Gallup, the percent of people who are satisfied with the direction the country is heading has dropped significantly since Trump’s election. The current percent is 27%. There is that number again.
Kay
@D58826:
I can’t right now because I have to work but I would be happy to talk about it some other time.
manyakitty
@raven: Gorgeous.
D58826
@Quinerly: it was a thread on twitter. Telegraph.com. an interview with our old pal Lewandowski
D58826
@Kay: ok. that old real world keeps intruding:-)
Quinerly
@D58826:
Thanks!
Another Scott
@MomSense: If you look at Manufacturing Employment, NAFTA had little effect and it might have been positive (NAFTA took effect in 1994). It only started falling like a rock after ~ 2001. Some say that’s a sign that it was mainly off-shoring to China. It’s funny
, though,that it corresponds to W’s time in office, though…Here’s the BLS graph again.
Cheers,
Scott.
D58826
@SiubhanDuinne: thank you. only not being a golf fan I had forgotten his nickname until after I made thew comment. sometimes luck is better than brilliance:-)
D58826
@Another Scott: and the term rust belt goes back to early1980’s when POTUS was, wait let me think, Oh yes St Ronulus the Unready
Kay
@D58826:
Right now I’m struggling with whether to stay involved at all. I’m not a windmill-tilter. It seems insurmountable- like the forces are too big for a regular person to have any real effect. Media, monied interests, Wikileaks and the FBI.
That’s a big hill to climb. The question for me isn’t what to do- it’s whether doing anything makes any difference.
I know that’s pessimistic and I apologize but I try not to lie to myself and that’s my calculus right now. Self interest or stay engaged? Because it is an investment, on a personal level. I’m not in a position to “fight” CNN or the FBI. That’s just a fact.
Smitty
@MomSense: Trump voters are suckers, pure and simple. Three card monte, bait and switch, they fell for it all and will continue to do so. Try not to be scammed along with them.
OzarkHillbilly
@Kay: Kay, we need people like you with the experience to stay involved, even if it’s only a toe in the water, to help those of us just starting. Take a step back, have a nice nap, but at the least be available for questions. In time you may find the new energy invigorating. Or not.
Another Holocene Human
Found out my local dems have the wrong date/time/location of their meetings online. Seriously stupid!!!!
Smitty
Do you think that Abe will tell Trump-Barnum to go fuck himself?
D58826
@Kay: I know what your saying. When I was reading Jane Mayer’s ‘Dark Money’ (there I go again acting as her press agent), I could only take it in small chucks. It just seems that there is so much money, such a well thought out plan, so many co-opted institutions to either push the Koch line or not investigate it at all, institutions created from scratch for the purpose of pushing the plan, enough redundancy built in so if one thing doesn’t work it can be discarded w/o damaging the ov er all plan, and enough secrecy to hide the fingerprints.
Immanentize
@WereBear: I hear your anger and your passion. And I am all for fighting. In fact, I am on it! But this idea that Trump cannot be President is nonesense. And there are rules that say so:
The Rule is one must be 35, a naturally born citizen, a US resident for 14 years prior to election and must win a majority of the electoral college votes to be president. That’s it. Do we not follow those constitutional rules because reasons?
We lost. Trump is President because he won by the rules. So let’s fight and mitigate and sow Dissent and educate and love others. But let’s not break rules in the name of supporting rules. Let us be faithful to the rule of law even when some others are not. Until that is the only option left.
WaterGirl
@Baud:
President Obama has some words for you:
(bolding mine)
@Quinerly: And you, too.
WaterGirl
@Kay: Your president needs you. We need you. Please read the quote from Barack in my comment at or near #101.
HRA
The rust belt began long before NAFTA. The steel plant in my area were the major employers for many residents and the economic growth for businesses as well.
It’s beginning can be traced to when the dock workers for the plant unloaded steel made in Japan, sent it into the plant to be stamped and was it sold to the buyers. That was in the 1950s.
Recently a local bridge to the city close to where the steel plant was once located was taken down rather than being mended. The steel in the structure was stamped made in Italy.
The local steel plant closed in the mid 1960s. Some of the buildings were sold to other businesses. The day after the election last week one of the large structures was engulfed in flames and what is left is still smoldering under the rubble. If anyone is interested in knowing more about it, I am sure googling Lackawanna NY steel plant fire will take you to the photos and print about it.
WereBear
@Another Holocene Human: They need help. Our local page went for years without being updated.
MomSense
@Another Scott:
IIRC the estimates for job losses attributable to NAFTA since it took effect were about 700,000 but that is more than offset by even sluggish monthly job gains in about one quarter.
It’s just a total scam to blame everything on NAFTA and you can’t believe how many people think China is a signatory. In my persuasion calls this year I kept bumping into this and it’s damned hard to counter. In my desperation I would suggest they go to their library and ask the librarian to look it up for them.
WaterGirl
I surely hope this doesn’t mean that Pelosi might be stepping down from a leadership role:
MomSense
@HRA:
So why have Democrats been feeding the misinformation on NAFTA? It couldn’t possibly be because some Dems (hey I’m looking at you Warren and Sanders) benefited from this? How much money did they raise on their opposition to TPP?
Major Major Major Major
Saw this article come down the transom, thought some of you might be interested.
“What Was the Nerd?
The myth of the bullied white outcast loner is helping fuel a fascist resurgence”
http://reallifemag.com/what-was-the-nerd/
Kay
@WaterGirl:
President Obama is leaving
This is a US Senator. A never-Trumper.
They believe the opposition to Trump is funded by some liberal cabal. These are the only people standing between us and Donald Trump. Dumb, crazy people who hate all liberals.
WereBear
Exactly. Trump has to be investigated. He has to pass a security check to get the nuclear codes, doesn’t he? Or do we just give them to any fascist who cheats his way into power?
HRA
@MomSense: @MomSense:
That has puzzled me as well and it is why I have wanted to correct it beyond my own circle of friends and relatives who brought up NAFTA as the culprit.
In the 1980s I worked for the NYS Labor Dept. One of my duties was to interview and take claimant’s applications for TRA (Trade Readjustment Act) schooling. They were then qualified to enter community colleges for learning a trade. Sadly too many rejected the opportunity while in the past current years.I have been pleasantly surprised to have some of the ones I sent on to schooling show up at my house to do the work on my renovation.
SFAW
@Immanentize:
(and WereBear, indirectly)
Yeah, that’s what I’m not understanding.
Short of finding hundreds of thousands of “lost” Hillary votes (as in, cast for Hillary, but somehow were not counted last Tuesday) in MI, WI, PA, and NC, Trump is the Preznit-elect. Or is does “extreme vetting” == “getting the Electors to flip to Hillary”? Although I guess that hoped-for flip is physically possible, it’s about as likely as them flipping to Ralph Nader.
Want to fight (almost) everything Trump does? I’m onboard with that. [The “almost” is that he may actually do something semi-reasonable once in a long while. Not betting on it, but still possible.] But trying to “vet” Trump out of taking office is a low-percentage choice.
If I’m misreading the extreme vetting thing, apologies for my poor reading skills.
Major Major Major Major
@Kay: ‘Paid rioting’? It’s like ten black bloc kids from Oakland. What a bunch of pussies.
I knew Sasse was evil but I didn’t think he was dumb.
SFAW
@WereBear:
Pretty much “yes.”
But what cheating? He lied myriad times per day, about everything under the sun, but it was his (indirect) idolaters in the state houses in MI, WI, PA, NC, etc. that cheated.
Major Major Major Major
@WereBear:
Nope. The powers that be have no authority when it comes to whether or not the president gets full clearance. S/he just does. (This is intentional.)
I think Adam had a post on it.
rikyrah
The Democrats Are Screwing Up the Resistance to Donald Trump
How Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren misread the election.
By Jamelle Bouie
…………………
WereBear
What I am hearing is that our Democratic leaders are trying to be soothing and reassuring about the country marching on regardless. They think they are being calm and leader-ly.
But they look complicit and uncaring and powerless.
When we will ever get “optics”? This is a visual age. People are freaking out around me and when they see Democrats on the television telling them to calm down, they don’t calm down. They see people who are going to be fine.
And not caring about the little people who are not going to be fine.
Betty Cracker
@Kay: I struggle with that myself — whether or not it’s worth staying engaged as an ordinary person. So far, I tell myself yes, for the kids in my life, I have to try.
Major Major Major Major
@Peale: This is what actual (domestic) neoliberalism looks like, by the way, for those of you keeping score at home. Doubly so since the protectionism won’t actually be happening.
Tazj
@HRA:
So true. Bethlehem Steel in Lackawanna NY closed in 1983, though. The closing date probably doesn’t matter that much, but I know the date because my dad was an inspector in the mill. I’m probably a lot older than you are.
At first, I thought Ben Sasse was being snarky about the protests. I thought he was supposed to be the reasonable, intellectual Republican that had bipartisan appeal. He’s no different than any other Republican.
SFAW
@Tazj:
Lather rinse repeat
SFAW
@WereBear:
Better to focus on fixing that problem, than to waste time on the “extreme vetting.”
MomSense
@rikyrah:
You and I are literally on the same page. I characterized Warren and Sanders as Vichy Senators. Fuck them.
D58826
@HRA: Right out of college I worked for a subsidiary of Ford. We could get discounts on Ford vehicles. Parking lot was overrun with foreign made imports (these were the days before Japan/Germany etc had assembly plants in the south), while their owners complained about cheap foreign competition. Since the lot was a long long walk on a snowy Jan. day. there was some talk of giving Ford vehicle owners priority parking close in to the building or at least a shuttle service from the lot. But was just talk unfortunately.
Kristine
@raven: Lovely
D58826
@MomSense: Sanders yes. Since Warren has been a democrat I’ll cut her some slack for the moment but I was disappointed in her Obamacare remarks. Just because you can rewrite history in ‘1984’ doesn’t mean you can do it in this world. There were barely enough votes for the Obamacare that passed let alone some transformation program that gave every one’s pink unicorn free vet care in addition to free human heath care
D58826
I guess it was expected but James Clapper has submitted his resignation.
And gee Megyn Kelly has certainly gotten chatty about all of the foul things that happen to women, esp, at Fox. In addition to needing to hire extra security because of death threats from Trump world. Amazing how a book tour loosens the tongue. I know the right thing to do is offer support but I guess I will provide the same level of support that she provided over the years to all of those women not named Megyn Kelly.
HRA
@Tazj:
The coke ovens were the last to close of the original plant. I believe the newer galvanizing mill on Lake Ave. was still running, too.
In 1983 I worked for the NYS Dep. of Labor UI and TRA Buffalo office after the Lackawanna office was on the way to close down. Our claimants were chiefly the auto workers mostly during the retooling periods for the new cars.
SFAW
@MomSense:
It may be possible that Warren and Sanders have decided that focusing on the racism of Trumpistas is a less effective way of gaining support to oppose Trump’s “plans.”
Few people like having their racism pointed out to them (or to others), especially if they don’t think they’re racist. [Self-awareness is probably not a big thing with Trump supporters.] Now while I don’t give a rat’s ass about their delicate fee-fees, if I’m trying to garner enough support to prevent the “plans” of their racist overlord from being implemented, I’m going to focus more on things like economic impact to them, rather than putting the focus on the moral argument. This election was a pretty appalling rejection of moral arguments.
Not saying that’s what’s going on — my senior Senator does not call me for advice — but it’s possible that there are other things at play here.
Betty Cracker
Sanders, and to a lesser extent (IMO) Warren, see this as an opportunity to yank the party toward their economic-centered view. But what they’re missing is that their agenda was already in the platform that won the popular vote handily but lost the electoral college. They’re acting as if their ideas didn’t get a fair hearing because Sanders lost the primary, but that’s not true.
Now, they can say that Clinton was the wrong messenger, and there is some truth to that because Clinton is associated fairly or unfairly with NAFTA and TPP and of course was slimed by everyone from Sanders to WikiLeaks (courtesy of Russia) as an out of touch elitist. But let’s not act like this was a normal election and we just have to retool our message.
Bouie is right: Trump’s “populism,” aside from being phony bullshit since it’s recycled Ryanism, is inextricable from his white nationalist message. And working with him as if there were anything worth implementing in his agenda is legitimizing it.
WereBear
@SFAW: I am thinking the people who are already resigned are the people who think they will be okay.
Quinerly
James Clapper has resigned.
gvg
@WereBear: He does not have to pass a security check to be President. This was brought up repeatedly here during the campaign. You are trying to make reality match what you think is common sense. It doesn’t work that way. The Constitution was written a long time ago, before America was powerful, before nuclear power of the cold war, before the concept of security clearances. all of that is very modern. I think we started having spies pretty early but the bureaucratic process developed over time and is entirely subordinate to the executive branch. any President can change it and someone other than Trump might even improve it. In fact it has been changed many times.
The public has certain popular opinions about how there ought to be protections, but we aren’t actually unanimous about the details. Public opinion will have some effect on any President. Trump worries me more. He has potential to be influenced as he clearly wants attention and praise but he hasn’t been trained by political experience, he’s been trained by celebrity magazines and reality TV. That means he doesn’t do what the public thinks is obvious and surprises us too much. I also think he is going to be hard for the regular GOP to predict.
Trump cannot be stopped from taking office. We can make him weaker by demonstrating a lack of support and hitting him with scandals the way the GOP tried to do with Obama. We can make him not want to stay as President. I don’t think he will give up until he has a least tried the office he tried to get. I don’t actually know if we can hound him from office but it seems more likely than any other President elect I know of. He really is uneducated. Pence is another problem but we’ll deal with him down the road. I honestly don’t think he is as likely to use nukes or start a war. If we get him in turn, we will have had more time to prepare a strategy.
MomSense
@Betty Cracker:
Trump is a populist in exactly the same way Milosevic was.
Tazj
@HRA: Well, I guess I’m not older than you, ha. That period when my dad was let go from the plant just made a big impression on me, and as you can imagine was very difficult for my family(and many others in the area.)
Thanks for the information.
WereBear
That’s where I am at.
I am kind of plugged in. Year ago I lobbied in DC for health issues. My own health put me on the sidelines most of the campaign, but I still keep tabs.
What I am hearing back is actively frightening me, which I why I couldn’t sleep and started ranting. People are DONE. They are not hateful because they did not turn out for Trump, but they are apathetic about what the Democrats can do for them, and that is why they stayed home.
Over and over again, they said they didn’t vote at all to “send a message.” What message, I asked. “None of you care,” I am told. “Things are now going to get worse and all I see are Democratic politicians acting like this is just another day at the office.”
They can’t watch it. It makes them sick. And they are pulling away.
Turn them out two years from now? I have the sick feeling we won’t.
HRA
@D58826:
I drove by the Ford Stamping plane in our area on the way to work as I described earlier for the NYS Labor Dept; UI and TRA. My temporary work office was upstairs in the banquet room of the local autoworkers union hall. One interview I was having with a Ford worker sticks in my mind even now. He was an older guy who began to talk about his job. ” Don’t buy the Escort. The metal on the doors is very thin now.” Then he asked me a union question. I told him I could not answer it and he should go see the rep downstairs for the answer. In about 20 minutes the union rep came running to my desk asking me why I sent the man to him. (pounding head on desk even now) Ignorance -how does it ever stop electing the work people to be in charge?
Major Major Major Major
@Betty Cracker: this.
HRA
My last response should be : Ignorance -how does it stop electing the WRONG people to be in charge?
SFAW
@WereBear:
Resigned to what, exactly? That Trump will be inaugurated? Or that all his “plans” will be implemented?
If it’s the first: it’s going to happen, barring some completely out of left field occurrence (Trump says “Fuck it” and quits, the Electors stage a massive protest and give us President Pence, etc.).
That’s what I’m arguing about, not whether his “plans” should be opposed as much as possible — they should.
SenyorDave
I see how the Democrats are acting now and it makes me want to be done with Democratic party. I want to see someone other than Harry Reid call out Trump on Bannon directly. Sanders and Warren want to work with him? They should call a press conference and tie Trump directly to Bannon, and get some Breitbart article quotes, some real nasty ones. Show some spine for once!
Major Major Major Major
@SenyorDave: IT’S BEEN A WEEK
SFAW
@WereBear:
Yeah. A few days ago, someone wrote in here — or maybe re-quoted someone — about how in 2018, the Rethugs will feel the wrath of the same Trumpistas who hated the Dems this year. I think that’s mildly delusional.
SenyorDave
@Major Major Major Major: Its a pattern for most of my adult life. A large portion of the Democrats in Congress didn’t even have Obama’s back. Besides Bannon is not some small issue, and the time to act is now. He is a white supremacist who would be the senior adviser to the president.
SFAW
@Major Major Major Major:
Not sure I get your point. Is it “It’s only been a week, people are still shell-shocked, give them a chance to get going on calling out Trump/Bannon”?
D58826
@HRA: I graduated from Temple in 1968. Campus was surrounded by abandoned buildings that had been the lifeblood of the community and the heart of the WWII war effort. At that time most of the jobs had moved south. Westinghouse tried for years to move it’s Lester plant to S.Carolina. The New England textile industry had all move south by then as well.
Now it’s true the jobs stayed in the US but cold comfort for the folks in New England and North Philly and not a bit of help offered by the good Christian folks from the new south.
Scroll forward a few decades and listen to these people howl with indignation as the jobs they poached from New England are now moving to Mexico or China. The one that I enjoyed the most was when Pillowtex closed in suburban Charlotte. Our small government/anti-tax/ screw you NE Senator Libby Dole was on the phone with the WH asking for a disaster declaration to pump money inmto the area to help the poor displaced workers.
Major Major Major Major
@SFAW: correct.
SenyorDave
@SFAW: The Trump people will follow him off a cliff and then some. He’s a con man and these are his marks. They want to be conned. They might turn on him if they perceive he’s going to accommodate the “others” and not try to put whites at the front of the line.
SFAW
@Major Major Major Major:
I understand your sentiment, but I think the Rethugs didn’t wait a week to start going after Obama in 2008. (Certainly possible it’s selective memory on my part.) The longer the Dems wait to work at keeping Trump on the defensive, the tougher it will be.
SFAW
@SenyorDave:
OK, but I was responding re: the mid-terms. Sorry for not being more explicit.
However, I also think that, no matter what he does, if the country is still here for the 2020 elections, he’ll win those. (Yes, a lot can happen, etc., etc., but his marks have shown an amazing lack of critical thinking, and vote suppression will be even more entrenched, probably expanded, by then.)
WereBear
It’s wishful thinking, I agree. What wrath? The Trump voters, for the most part, got exactly what they thought they wanted. They’re happy. Any setbacks we can inflict will just make them vote harder, against us, next time.
Kay
Eviscerate STATE laws. The looting will be unprecedented. Frankly. all the people saying the US won’t collapse into total state-led corruption are relying on nothing more than vague theories of American exceptionalism.
There are plenty of wholly corrupt countries. There’s no reason we can’t be one of them.
I am honestly considering transferring savings to grown children so they can pay down their mortgages. Now. I won’t keep it anyway and at least this way it benefits my family. I can’t function in financial markets with no regulation. I’ll get killed.
SFAW
@WereBear:
Depressing, ain’t it?
I have said for too long that the wrong people are being prevented from voting. {No, I’m not really advocating voter suppression for Foxbots, although that would make a shitload more sense for the country than the current implementation.)
SenyorDave
@SFAW: I was actually agreeing with you. IMO Trump’s two biggest appeals to his voters were:
1. He’s an R, that’s a given that most Republicans will vote for an (R) no matter how bad they are (GWB in 2004, Nixon in 1972)
2. He’s a bigot
Those two things won’t be any different in 2020 I occasionally give money to the DNC, I don’t want money spent going after Trump voters. I want to expand the base, and figure out the turnout problems. That is why I do hope the GOP goes hard after entitlements, especially SS and Medicare. The Democrats can be the opposition and maybe turnout in 2018 will improve. My big fear is that Trump will oppose the Republicans on SS and Medicare and get credit. If I was his adviser that’s what I would tell him to do.
I think the economic concerns were ultimately #3
cosima
I’m hoping that the deplorables will get some push-back when they cross the pond. I hope that this is being investigated thoroughly, because this sure smells like Putin attempting to destabilise the entire world. This made me feel sick to my stomach. I will beginning to feel that I was feeling close to okay, but the thought of this poison spreading is pushing me back to square one (i.e. last Wednesday).
“The right-wing Breitbart News Network is expanding its U.S. operations and launching sites in Germany and France, its U.S. editor-in-chief told Reuters,”
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-trump-strategy-idUSKBN1342TP
D58826
@SFAW: IIRC publicly they played nice for a couple of weeks. His pop rating was around 70%. In private they had already decided to destroy his presidency by any means fair or foul.
Emma
I keep thinking we’re going about this wrong. WereBear and others are right, we might not be able to trust Democrats either. So how about alternatives, non-governmental associations? If we can create our own channels of communication we can make sure our views are out there. In some cases, they do not need to be high tech. For example, billboards. Every campaign concentrates on high-tech, but people see billboards every day. Targeted messages might help. There are some of you that have been activists for a long time. You can think of other methods.
WereBear
Everyone will get their money stolen. And then the Zombie Apocalypse begins.
Part of what has been setting me off is my discovery that there was a small band of lawyers and brokers and accountants who were on to Bernie Madoff’s Ponzi scheme for ten years. But they got nowhere because the Bush administration told the SEC to not prosecute. And they did not.
Peale
@Kay: Gee, its almost as if we didn’t have to sign a “Free Trade Agreement” to get the effects of a free trade agreement. But the Democrats are Neo-liberal. They must be. Because I was told they were.
Major Major Major Major
@cosima: I am utterly unsurprised by this development.
SenyorDave
I don’t think we can apply any traditional standards to what is going on. We have normalized some types of deviancy. We can’t get a white supremacist out of a post as the senior adviser to the POTUS. Imagine if it were a Democrat and there was hint of association with any radical group. If they had any association with a group like CAIR? They’d be out in 3 seconds.
The entire Democratic House and Senate leadership should call a press conference and come out against Bannon, and the entire Democratic Congress should sign a letter opposing the hire. This would be the right thing to do, and I think politically it would be a win.
EBT
@cosima: Germany actually enforces it’s hate speech laws.
Major Major Major Major
@EBT: so do we. Theirs are just much stricter.
D58826
Well so much for the hope that Sen. Ben Sasse might be a ‘reasonable’ republican. In a tweet he is saying that ‘the paid anti-Trump rioters’ should be investigated.
Amazing how quickly they all fall in line good Germans all.
EBT
@Major Major Major Major: You should see the vitriol and hate that American users of Good Old Games have for the current German government because some 25 year old video games have to have swastikas removed to be sold in Germany now. Some actually calling for a violent revolution in a foreign country over something that petty. That is why we can’t have nice things.
Kay
@Peale:
Remember these folks? The overpaid hacks on “financial” networks who cheerlead us right into a financial collapse?
They’re back!
They’re thrilled. Happy days are here again! They’re all multi-millionaires, the cable commentators. Small investors aren’t safe in Trumpworld. Get out before they rob you. Don’t be one of the thousands of Trump marks.
Major Major Major Major
@EBT: I’m sure they don’t mean it any more than people here mean they want to kill everybody in DC when they have a name like “Villago Delenda Est” and routinely type “wipe them out. All of them.”
EBT
@Major Major Major Major: Of course the over lap of said users with out and proud trump voters, who talk about how much they hate women in all the worst words they use. And they happen to feel strongly about New Yorkers and Thugs and Ethics in Video Game Journalism as well.
Major Major Major Major
@EBT: just sayin’. Some of us need to watch our rhetoric a bit here.
cosima
@EBT: Yes, and that is almost, but not quite, enough to keep me from despairing….
Hopefully some in the UK will should “hell no!” and their concerns will keep Bannon out of the WH.
D58826
Totally off topic but seems there is life beyond politics. The eastern half of NC has been devastated by flood over the past couple of months. The western half is code red for fire danger and classified as exceptional drought conditions and the middle is breathing bad air due to wildfires. . IF HB2 is a way to show that NC is walking in GOD’s path then GOD has a funny way of showing his appreciation.
WereBear
I’ve been saying that since three o’clock this morning. I was not met with universal agreement.
It would be a win. But they won’t do it. Why not? I’d really like to know.
EBT
@D58826: As a former life long resident of WNC, we spend an awful lot of money every year or two helping the exact same people out of the exact same flooded six figure homes.
Larkspur
I’m feeling goofy today, so I just called Ben Sasse’s office and asked the staffer if Sasse has gotten any more information about the paid anti-Trump protesters. I told him I’ve been doing it for free, but if someone’s going to pay me, I wanted to know who. Of course he said, “Uh, I can’t speak to that. This is a legislative office”. So I said, okay, well tell the senator I’ve been doing it without getting paid, and I don’t think anyone else is getting paid either. He said “Okay, have a nice day”.
So that advanced absolutely nothing in terms of resistance, but it made me feel better. For about 30 seconds. I also emailed my senator, Barbara Boxer, urging her that since she leaving office, could she please take down Bannon on the way out. (I was very clear that I didn’t mean for her to beat him up or anything. I’m not trying to be incendiary here. I am non-violent, so if anyone is monitoring me, relax.)
SgrAstar
@Betty Cracker: Yes! Betty, you and Kay are right- we have to figure out how to resist effectively. The younger generation in my family, college kids, are already standing up. They’re writing op-eds in their college newspapers, organizing their neighbors…it’s really heartening. We have to live up to them.
D58826
@EBT: Yep and as a former longtime user of the Jersey seashore we did the same ting with beachfront estates.
WereBear
@Larkspur: We are going to have to get our amusements where we can. Kudos!
Durin Dal
You’re better than I am. I still can’t bring myself to watch it. :-(