Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Damn right I heard that as a threat.

Second rate reporter says what?

T R E 4 5 O N

“What are Republicans afraid of?” Everything.

Fuck these fucking interesting times.

The willow is too close to the house.

Happy indictment week to all who celebrate!

Pessimism assures that nothing of any importance will change.

Everybody saw this coming.

Make the republican party small enough to drown in a bathtub.

Is it irresponsible to speculate? It is irresponsible not to.

Within six months Twitter will be fully self-driving.

Reality always lies in wait for … Democrats.

Black Jesus loves a paper trail.

Conservatism: there are some people the law protects but does not bind and others who the law binds but does not protect.

Spilling the end game before they can coat it in frankl luntz-approved dogwhistles.

Too often we hand the biggest microphones to the cynics and the critics who delight in declaring failure.

Roe isn’t about choice, it’s about freedom.

But frankly mr. cole, I’ll be happier when you get back to telling us to go fuck ourselves.

“Everybody’s entitled to be an idiot.”

So it was an October Surprise A Day, like an Advent calendar but for crime.

Not so fun when the rabbit gets the gun, is it?

A snarling mass of vitriolic jackals

I see no possible difficulties whatsoever with this fool-proof plan.

You are here: Home / Economics / Grifters Gonna Grift / Open Thread: The ‘Post-Truth’ Administration

Open Thread: The ‘Post-Truth’ Administration

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Post-truth, the Oxford Dictionary’s Word of the Year, “an adjective defined as ‘relating to or denoting circumstances in which objective facts are less influential in shaping public opinion than appeals to emotion and personal belief’”. Nicely timed for the triumph of the Trump, as per the latest news from Ford…



Washington Post explainer, with ranking: Three pinocchios!

Even more dire, the Ford people apparently decided it was more important to be “right” with Dear Leader-Elect than to be honest…

So, if Trump and his handlers are allowed to get away with stories like this, we will officially have descended to the kind of authoritarian regime where the Dear Leader can claim to have hit many holes-in-one against the world’s best golfers, or to have turned aside tornadoes by his mere presence… and the press (or at least the official press) will dutifully parrot those claims, with a slathering of superlatives. (Don’t just take my word — listen to an expert!)

Which, yes, sounds very much like the GOP’s wildest wet dream… except that, up till now, they at least had to pay the tribute of vice to virtue.

Reader Interactions

138Comments

  1. 1.

    trollhattan

    So, if Trump and his handlers are allowed to get away with stories like this

    If? Trialed during Birthergate, refined during primary, perfected during general. We’re already there.

  3. 3.

    WereBear

    Crap. I mean really… they are orchestrating a false world for Trump’s fans to live in.

    AND they are so stupid they won’t catch on for a long time… maybe ever.

  4. 4.

    EBT

    If truth doesn’t matter, use it to our advantage. deadbeat donnie is now an admitted child molester. See how easy it is?

  6. 6.

    the Conster, la Citoyenne

    This country is too stupid to live. As we all go down, I will enjoy watching the list of media people who end up being disappeared grow, as long as Chris Cilizza, Chuck Todd, Mika Bobblehead and Andrea Greenspan are included.

  8. 8.

    SenyorDave

    Maybe CNN will call him out on his BS. After all, is there anyone more interested in the truth than Jeff Zucker?

  10. 10.

    SenyorDave

    @EBT: deadbeat donnie is now an admitted child molester. See how easy it is?

    Must be true, since I now have an anonymous source for the story.

  11. 11.

    The Dangerman

    @EBT:

    deadbeat donnie is now an admitted child molester.

    Nah, tell the world he has a really tiny pen!s. He’s whipping that thing out faster than you can say Cleavon Little.

  17. 17.

    RaflW

    It does not yet appear to be a settled pick, but if Huckabee does end up being US ambassador to Israel, then I’m pretty sure there will be a nuclear war in the mideast.

    At which point the whole fucking world is quite literally ruined.

    I have never, ever, been so devastatingly afraid for humanity. The worst possible people are being selected for this government, and it will be a shit-show so bad it’ll make the whole damn 1914-1945 era on Earth look easy.

    Gaaaaahhh!

  23. 23.

    Calouste

    The Founder of Ford was a well known and public anti-Semite, recipient of the highest award Nazi Germany could give a foreigner.

  25. 25.

    Это курам на смех

    @SenyorDave: How about Mark Zuckerberg, who recently affirmed “Ninety-nine percent of what people see [on Facebook] is authentic.”

  26. 26.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    Well, I think we’ve just seen the template for the Trump admin – utter BS and shell games, because doing actual policy will be way to hard.

  28. 28.

    The Dangerman

    @EBT:

    …WHY.

    Well, if enough people see he’s crackers (no offence, Betty), maybe he’s out of office that much faster.

  30. 30.

    BBA

    Reposting this from the previous thread, because I think it’s important.

    @Matt McIrvin:

    We should be preparing to die.

    Wrong verb tense, sir. We should be prepared to die. The fact that Mandela was, and said so to the judge’s face, may have been what saved him from the gallows.

    I don’t mean to take Mandela’s name in vain, but I’m getting less and less sure it is in vain.

  31. 31.

    James Powell

    @Major Major Major Major:

    Reading that made me sad because Matt Yglesias and many of the people who read it are going to think they can still do something. That ship sailed on November 8. Go ahead, call your senators and congress-creatures, keep those cards and letters coming. But don’t labor under the delusion that any Republican is going to do anything but make sure he/she is in line to get the White House cooking they’ve been missing for the last eight years.

    Yossarian had done his best to warn him the night before. ‘You haven’t got a chance, kid,’ he told
    him glumly. ‘They hate Jews.’
    ‘But I’m not Jewish,’ answered Clevinger.
    ‘It will make no difference,’ Yossarian promised, and Yossarian was right. ‘They’re after everybody.’
    Clevinger recoiled from their hatred as though from a blinding light. These three men who hated
    him spoke his language and wore his uniform, but he saw their loveless faces set immutably into
    cramped, mean lines of hostility and understood instantly that nowhere in the world, not in all the
    fascist tanks or planes or submarines, not in the bunkers behind the machine guns or mortars or
    behind the blowing flame throwers, not even among all the expert gunners of the crack Hermann
    Goering Antiaircraft Division or among the grisly connivers in all the beer halls in Munich and
    everywhere else, were there men who hated him more.

  32. 32.

    tobie

    If you read the Reuters article on the Lincoln, KY Ford plant, you do find the following statement:

    But Ford has repeatedly said it has no plans to close any U.S. plants and likely could not do so under the terms of the current United Auto Workers contract that expires in 2019.

    This is not the first time Trump’s comments about Ford production have been called into question. Last year, he took credit for Ford moving work from Mexico to Ohio, while the automaker had already made the decision in 2011 – long before Trump announced a run for president.

    I’ll write a letter to my local newspaper this weekend and make sure to note that. It’s a drop in the bucket, but it’s the most I can do.

  33. 33.

    Ruckus

    @RaflW:
    Maybe I won’t have to worry about living under a bridge, looking for the best curtain rods and trying out sparrow recipes and wondering if starvation or medical conditions will kill me. Of course with my luck, I’d be one of the “lucky” ones to survive for a couple years.

  36. 36.

    trollhattan

    @The Dangerman:
    Reagan termed-out before anybody was bothered about his rotted brain and dirty dealings, and with enough of a pine-fresh scent to drag HW into the chair. Arnie termed-out even after being caught fathering a bastard child with his maid. The “right” people just don’t care.

  37. 37.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    @RaflW: If you want to scare the shit out of yourself why work that hard and consider this scenerio; The US and Russia bumps heads on some crises. Putin says somethin midly critical about Trump, Trump goes into one of Trump’s 3:00am rage twitters spew of personal insults against Putin that back Putin in corner were Putin has push back at Trump to keep his own conservative lizard brains happy. All done in an eviroment were no one knows what the truth is and has no trust in what the otherside says.

  39. 39.

    Major Major Major Major

    @James Powell: Yeah, I just went for that link because I had it handy and couldn’t readily think of another one about how we’ll turn into that sort of state. In my rush to comment quickly, I commented imperfectly.

    Wasn’t somebody complaining about Twitter? Same thing.

  41. 41.

    SenyorDave

    @Это курам на смех: How about Mark Zuckerberg, who recently affirmed “Ninety-nine percent of what people see [on Facebook] is authentic.”

    Are you doubting my Nobel prize? My three consecutive National League MVPs? That Facebook was my idea, and Zuckerberg used a notebook he stole from me to develop it?

  42. 42.

    Suzanne

    At what point do I really need to consider moving? My citizenship is not a suicide pact. I am worried about my kids.

  44. 44.

    cokane

    Washington Post knows what it’s doing going forward:

    “President-elect Donald Trump, who has repeatedly bragged he never settles lawsuits despite a long history of doing so, has agreed to a $25 million settlement to end the fraud cases pending against his defunct real estate seminar program, Trump University.”

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/source-trump-nearing-settlement-in-trump-university-fraud-cases/2016/11/18/8dc047c0-ada0-11e6-a31b-4b6397e625d0_story.html

    Look at that killer lead. Best we can do to fight fake news is to support real news.

  45. 45.

    debbie

    But this is what Republicans have always done. They took credit for the economy while Clinton was president; they took credit for the end of the Soviet Union. The GOP had nothing to do with either of these situations.

  49. 49.

    TS

    @Timurid: Via your link I just saw a headline

    Trump to do a thank you America tour – I didn’t read it – but it sounds like something he would do – rather than spend time learning about the job he is supposed to be doing come January.

  52. 52.

    Mary G

    @Suzanne: Where to go, though? It seems like a tide of right wing fascism is rising all around the world. I thought America would be the holdout, but it seems not.

  54. 54.

    hovercraft

    @cokane:

    Look at that killer lead. Best we can do to fight fake news is to support real news.

    That killer lead is from a fake news source silly. They are part of the lying liberal media. If you are looking for real impartial news, you have to look to Alex Jones and Breitbart, not the MSM, which exist to defame the Shitgibbon elect.

  55. 55.

    Shalimar

    NBC Evening News quotes USA Today as saying Trump still has more than 70 open lawsuits against him now that Trump U. case has been settled. Jesus Christ, why did no one bother to publicize that information before the election? The man is a lifetime conman.

  58. 58.

    Corner Stone

    This neoliberal Santa son of a bitch in the car commercials. Go back to swinging on your candy striped Poles, old man!

  59. 59.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    @SenyorDave:

    Maybe CNN will call him out on his BS. After all, is there anyone more interested in the truth than Jeff Zucker?

    You’ve been drinking, haven’t you?

  60. 60.

    Villago Delenda Est

    Our Ferengi Infotainment Networks have made this all possible because Donald, after all, is good for ratings.

    From the Ferengi Rules of Acquisition:

    14. Anything stolen is pure profit

    15. Acting stupid is often smart

    16. A deal is a deal … until a better one comes along

  61. 61.

    SFAW

    @cokane:

    President-elect Liar-in-Chief Donald Trump, who has repeatedly bragged

    Fixed, because that’s how he should be referred to, going forward.

  64. 64.

    Shalimar

    @Shalimar: I wonder how many combined times our previous presidents have been sued? This isn’t just an order of magnitude worse than anything we have had before. It would be like never having a president who was married more than twice, and then electing someone with a 70-woman harem.

  67. 67.

    Doug R

    A con doesn’t work unless the mark cooperates.
    It took Germany getting flattened by the allies for their fever to break.

  69. 69.

    hovercraft

    @TS:

    Trump to do a thank you America tour

    It likes adoring crowds, transition stuff is hard.
    It announced the other day that it was going to visit all the states it won. Can we have a constitutional amendment to keep it out of the states it lost? NY has it most days, but it’s in my state now, doesn’t Jersey have enough problems with pollution without adding this toxic waste?

  70. 70.

    Corner Stone

    HRC had scandal after scandal!
    /fuck you Sarah Isgur Flores

    And fuck you Adam Hodge for not breaking in and pushing back on her fucking bullshit fucking shit.

  72. 72.

    Major Major Major Major

    @SFAW: Not Il Douche?

    ETA: @Suzanne: Based on my conversations with Germans, they’re next after France. Their exurban, rural, and postindustrial whites are quite miserable, very racist, and hate Muslim immigrants.

    So, not Germany.

    Maybe, maybe, if (IF) Marine Le Pen and the National Front lose, the fever will break and Germany won’t get taken over by these same jackals.

  74. 74.

    the Conster, la Citoyenne

    @Corner Stone:

    I have boycotted all “news” media since the election, and will continue to do so. I refuse to let them mainline Trump’s feces into my eyes and ears.

  75. 75.

    Mnemosyne

    @NotMax:

    It was reported, then immediately buried under a steaming mound of bullcrap and tripe emails emails EMAILS!

    Fix’d for you. You’re welcome.

  76. 76.

    Shalimar

    @NotMax: USA Today has the number so they knew about at least 70 cases. They could have front-paged details of one lawsuit per day for most of August through the election and buried the son of a bitch under fraud claims that would have made “emails!” look quaint. Instead, they did nothing.

  81. 81.

    Chris T.

    I have just started calling this the “Trump pretendership”.

    1984 had the Memory Hole, but Babylon 5 predicted the distinction between truefacts (what we still call “facts”) and goodfacts (what Colbert called “truthiness”: the lies people want to believe).

  82. 82.

    TriassicSands

    The New York Times, Washington Post, and other prominent newspapers should create an entirely new section in their papers to counter the fake news. After all, they are going to be in direct competition with phony news and the business of responsible media outlets should be the truth. It won’t be enough for these outlets to report honestly, they will need to debunk the lies that will run contrary to the truthful reporting they are doing (or should be doing). It’s going to take stiffer spines, firm wording (not the mealy-mouthed vocabulary of the past — euphemisms must go), and more aggressive reporting. They should have a point to make — the truth.

  83. 83.

    the Conster, la Citoyenne

    @Doug R:

    Maybe Mexico and Canada together can bring us back to our senses. That’s a lot of border to work with.

  85. 85.

    Doug R

    So what’s the odds the electors do their constitutional job and prevent a charismatic demogogue from getting the presidency?
    If zero, why do we still have the electoral college?

  88. 88.

    bmoak

    @BBA:

    And the first thing they did after obtaining power was to create a bunch of new Parliamentary seats in Afrikaaner-dominated districts (mostly in Namibia) and restrict the vote.

  89. 89.

    TS

    @TriassicSands:

    The New York Times, Washington Post, and other prominent newspapers should create an entirely new section in their papers to counter the fake news.

    They encouraged it before the election – why would they change now?

  90. 90.

    TRipod

    Mark Fields (CEO Ford) was very clear yesterday they are moving small car (Focus) assembly to Mexico, and Trump could go fuck himself. Read the WSJ article. Focus is still going to Mexico and Trump can still go fuck hisself.

    “Saving” the SUV line in Louisville is just CYA bullshit.

  92. 92.

    The Dangerman

    @Doug R:

    …why do we still have the electoral college?

    Because, with no Electoral College, Trump and/or Clinton don’t leave California in the campaign. Why do that to us? We’re nice people (unless you cut us off on the freeway).

  95. 95.

    smintheus

    Trump is an anagram for truthiness. This is just the Bushies’ SOP taken to a slightly more ridiculous extreme.

    We’re an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you’re studying that reality— judiciously, as you will—we’ll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that’s how things will sort out. We’re history’s actors… and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do.

  97. 97.

    the Conster, la Citoyenne

    @Pogonip:

    I loved South America. I love Spanish colonial cultures – at least the architecture and vibe, and they colonized places that has the kind of arid desert landscapes I prefer. Chile is very young, very activist, great food and lots of art. Valparaiso was one of those places I’d love to live in – the best street art in the world is there. Earthquakes happen there though – it’s on the ring of fire.

  98. 98.

    Ruckus

    @Suzanne:
    The sentiment is great. But as other have said, where? And not just where would you like to live, but where could you move to? Most places it’s actually quite difficult to move to, without substantial long term financial safety or rather large sums up front. (ETA left out dual citizenship – that makes a huge difference) Unless of course no one wants to move to that country, in which case they may welcome you. I’ve looked over the last 15 yrs at a number of countries and very, very few have open arms for any immigrants.

  103. 103.

    Mike in NC

    Nothing the Trump people come up with should surprise us. Expect them to charge admission to tour the White House, visit the Smithsonian museums, and set foot in Arlington National Cemetery.

  105. 105.

    smintheus

    @Tripod: Yep. The truth is that 21st century news media rarely studies anything. They toss off a few fragmentary half-thoughts in the format of a minimally-twittable idea, and then pivot toward whatever everybody else is twittering about this morning.

  106. 106.

    the Conster, la Citoyenne

    @Pogonip:

    I did not make it to Ecuador – I just know Quito has a large Anglo expat community. I did go to Uruguay and Argentina – both feel like they’re marginally stable. The beach at Punta del Este is one of the most beautiful beaches I’ve ever been to, though, so if you have enough money to live there, that would be pretty cool. I’ve been to Central America too, and Costa Rica is paradise.

  108. 108.

    the Conster, la Citoyenne

    @Pogonip:

    yes, i know several of them, moving into condo/resort communities that require removing the canopy. My daughter and her husband just bought land in Belize, so if I’m nice to them, maybe they’ll let me visit for a few weeks at a time.

  109. 109.

    Pogonip

    I’m in South Deplorable, a college town, waiting for my son to come out of the grocery–and the bar band (terrible) is playing Jimi Hendrix (who’s probably turning in his grave) and the Stones. Strange selections for a bar full of kids!

  110. 110.

    Mary G

    @Suzanne: I think Merkel is toast. The Russians and Islamophobes who influenced our election are poised to take her out. I read conservative blogs a bit, to know the enemy, and they have been filled to the brim with outrage against Syrians raping good German white girls right and left.

  111. 111.

    Suzanne

    @Pogonip: I haven’t found a place outside the country to which I want to move, and I can’t afford it. But I do think that no one really expects to have to flee their country for their safety, and so I am thinking about it now. My husband doesn’t want to leave the country, but if our family is in danger, he’ll do it.

    But one of the lessons from history that I have learned is that it is difficult to pinpoint that time while it is happening, but it is incredibly clear in retrospect. So I am talking about it now.

  112. 112.

    Kay

    2014:

    Donald J. TrumpVerified account
    ‏@realDonaldTrump
    I just had a great victory against lightweight A.G. Eric Schneiderman. Most of his case re Trump U. was thrown out or gutted. Little remains

    The President lies constantly. Repeatedly. Over and over and over. No one can rely on a word he says.

    Remember when he told the public he never settled lawsuits? That was a lie too. This is just one day in Trump lies. He’ll be at it nonstop for the next four years.

  114. 114.

    Archon

    @Suzanne: Using deadly force against protesters is usually the redline. Even autocratic countries hesitate before going there because of the implications of violently turning against your own unhappy citizens.

    So to pinpoint a good time to leave is if and when the government starts using deadly force against the anti-Trump protesting that will be going on for the next 4 years.

  115. 115.

    TriassicSands

    @NotMax:

    Fortunately, electrons don’t weigh that much. They could have an abbreviated print version and the full run down online.

    @TS:

    Self preservation.

    Although I haven’t read the Post in several years, my understanding is that they did a pretty good job of going after Trump’s lies.

    The Timec could start with a new public editor.

  116. 116.

    Adria McDowell (formerly Lurker Extraordinaire

    @Archon: Wrong. Then it’s too late.

    When they start putting plans (legit plans, not just talk) to “register” people dependent on religion (Muslims) and/or ethnicity (Latinos), then it’s time to leave, especially if you fall into one of those groups.

    Since I fall into one of those groups, I’m with Suzanne. I am out like a shot. I have a child to protect.

  117. 117.

    Kay

    If Donald Trump said that the country was under attack would you believe him, or would you immediately see if it someone more credible could verify?

    You all know the answer to that question. That’s where we are. Not good. Not a good place to be and certainly not a normal place to be. I think this should be discussed publicly- how the President-elect lies so much ordinary people can’t rely on what he says. Ever. Under any circumstances. Because we have to be prepared.

  118. 118.

    Adria McDowell (formerly Lurker Extraordinaire

    If Cantaloupe Caligula (h/t efgoldman) told me the sun was rising in the east, I’d take my ass outside to double check.

  119. 119.

    Yoda Dog

    Im terrified for Hillary. In a post-truth world, they won’t need proof, just the right judge. This is fucking horrifying.

  122. 122.

    Bill_D

    @Pogonip: Ecuador is on the Ring of Fire. So is all the rest of the west coastal region of South America.

    Ring of Fire is kind of a misleading concept. First, it’s not a ring, it’s more of a horseshoe with the opening pointed south. Second, there is a kind of circular logic involved in giving it that name. It’s the Ring of Fire because of all the earthquakes and volcanoes there, and the earthquakes and volcanoes are said to happen there because it’s the Ring of Fire. Yet regions subject to earthquakes and volcanoes that are not within the Ring of Fire, such as Turkey or southern Italy, aren’t safer. The term really doesn’t have any explanatory power but it certainly has captured people’s imagination.

  123. 123.

    Feckless

    AND…Obama pushed the TPP right to the end.
    Now the TPP, and everything else he touched will be erased. How much time and $ was wasted by this on politician? We should have let McCain eat the shit sandwich in 2008.
    Bipartisanship is poison it killed Obamas presidency and now his political malpractice has killed our democracy.

  124. 124.

    Corner Stone

    @Feckless: It is strange that so many new commenters have an issue properly using the “s” to denote multiples of something.

    Where is gogol’s wife when I need someone to ask you what part of Russia you live in?

  125. 125.

    Ruckus

    @Feckless:
    Normally I don’t answer trolls. And you are a troll extraordinaire.
    So I’ll make this plain.
    Go Fuck Yourself.
    Assholes like you are not welcome here. Political malpractice my ass. You motherfucking moron.

  126. 126.

    Pogonip

    @Suzanne: Good luck! It’s difficult to get away from the U.S. government no matter where you are. I’ll probably just sit right here and shoot squirrels–when society collapses whatever’s left of the cops will be too busy to ticket me for squirrel-icide!

    (Sadly, I will not really be able to do that. The houses in this neighborhood are too close together to fire off guns. I will just have to continue hurling invective at the squirrels. Do they have squirrels in Ecuador?)

  128. 128.

    dww44

    @The Dangerman: I don’t know;I think there’s a chance. Certainly the National Popular Vote movement is halfway there. As scared as I am, and with each passing day, I get even more anxious, I refuse to accept that we cannot bring about at least a partial reversal of this electoral result in 2018 and I honestly don’t think Trump will run again in 2020.

  129. 129.

    Shalimar

    @Feckless: How would we have “let” McCain get elected in 2008? Over 10 million people choosing not to vote? He lost badly. Really, really badly.

  130. 130.

    Shalimar

    @Kay: If Donald Trump were ever assassinated, would they tell anyone? Or would they continue posting to his twitter account as if he were still alive and go on as if nothing had happened?

  131. 131.

    Ohio Mom

    @Suzanne: As a Jew, I’ve heard stories all my life about people who left Eastern Europe in time, and those that didn’t. In recent years, it has occurred to me that maybe knowing it was time to leave wasn’t the only thing, being able to leave, being able to take that risk was a big, big part of it.

    They had to be willing to give up everything they had. For someone like you, it could mean never working as a professional again, and being a cleaning lady instead.

    It’s very sobering to think about.

    Also, I don’t know who upthread suggested Equador for you but that’s beyond silly. Their government is as corrupt as we fear ours will soon be.

    Maybe New Zealand?

  132. 132.

    dww44

    @Kay: This is so frighteningly true. and it’s why I agree with David Frum on the LOD show last evening when LOD was trying to get a buy-in on Romney’s failings. Frum said we shouldn’t make a big deal of Romney’s minor failings vis-a-vis the other names on Trump’s list;rather, we should hope for folks like Romney to come on board as Secretary of State or whatever. Based on who’s in thus far, Romney would be a yuuuge improvement and better for all of us.

  133. 133.

    Pogonip

    @Shalimar: There was a movie about that exact scenario, Kagemusha. It was set before the invention of Twitter, so the characters used a body double for the dead leader. Hilarity ensued.

  138. 138.

    Suzanne

    @Ohio Mom: I know. It is scary to think about. Both Mr. Suzanne and I have master’s degrees, so places that have preferences for high-skill workers might be the place to go. But I also know that there is no guarantee of that. I desperately hope it doesn’t come to this.

    @Citizen Alan: I’m so sorry. I have my mom, too, and Mr. Suzanne’s parents’ livelihood is a farm they own, and they are also getting up there in years. His dad has been hospitalized with seizures twice in the last two years, So leaving is not an easy proposition,

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