Bernie hammered Clinton on $15 min wage – but said today he is willing to work w/ Trump on going from $7.25 to $10. https://t.co/ZhhagExJN9
— Edward M. Davis (@TeddyDavisCNN) November 17, 2016
Sure, Hillary was a Wall-Street-Whore-Corporatist-Shill when she suggested haggling for a mere $12.50 hourly wage in those areas where the cost of living didn’t meet NY/San Francisco/Seattle standards as a bargaining tactic… but if it’s a (fellow) man, even a Republican, well, whole diffrunt kettle!… as ever with the More-Leftist-Than-Thou boys. CNN reports:
President-elect Donald Trump will find himself with an unlikely ally if he makes good on his promise to be an economic populist challenging corporate America, Bernie Sanders said Thursday.
“If Mr. Trump has the guts to stand up to those corporations,” said the former Democratic presidential candidate, “he will have an ally with me.”
The willingness on the part of Sanders, a longtime democratic socialist, to work with Trump on a series of economic issues underscores the unorthodox and strikingly populist message that Trump used during his stunning victory over Hillary Clinton.
Sanders, speaking with reporters at a Christian Science Monitor sponsored breakfast, said he is ready to embrace Trump on a handful of campaign promises. Those include protecting Social Security and Medicare, negotiating for lower drug prices, raising the minimum wage to $10, imposing tariffs on companies that ship jobs overseas, and re-regulating Wall Street by re-establishing Glass-Steagall…
Because if you can’t trust a notorious liar and deal-breaker like Donald Trump, who can you work with?
… By embracing Trump’s left-leaning stands, Sanders is hoping to make progress on issues of long-standing concern to the Vermont senator…
Foremost among those issues: What’s in it for Bernie?
… Sanders, who is promoting his new book, “Our Revolution: A Future To Believe In,” during a series of appearances across Washington, is stepping into the leadership vacuum of the Democratic Party.
He said it was not productive to look backward, waving off a question about whether he could have defeated Trump if he had won the Democratic nomination with a “who knows?” response…
The Sanders Revolution cannot fail — it can only be failed. Though St. Berie is far too humble to say so himself… explicitly.
… “At the end of the day, my candidacy ended up being helpful to her — if we believe candidates should not be anointed,” Sanders said. “I’m happy to say my campaign brought millions of people into the political process, the vast majority of whom ended up voting for Hillary Clinton. I think it played a very positive role.”…
“Does that mean she and I are going to agree on every issue?” Sanders said. “Frankly, we are not going to agree on every issue, but her voice is important to be heard.”…
Big of him, nu?
… Even as Sanders offers to work with Trump on the populist components of his economic program, critical differences remain…
But on a series of bread-and-butter issues, Sanders said that Trump’s campaign spoke to the concerns of the working class and promised to work with the President-elect “if Mr. Trump was sincere.”,,,
And Sanders knows this about sincerity: Once you learn to fake it, you’re golden!
Of course, we don’t know the Sanders family’s financial position — like Trump, he broke with tradition by refusing to release his tax returns while running for the presidency — but unless he’s got some as-yet-undiscovered expensive vice, a Senator with three properties and a wife sufficiently professional to earn a half-million-dollar golden parachute will no doubt stand to benefit from Trump’s proposed tax breaks for the prosperous.
And it’s true that, right now, Bernie has a book to sell (and a foundation — “Our Revolution” — to shill).
But I think what’s really driving St. Bernie into President-Elect Smallgloves’ greasy embrace is a new-found taste for media adulation. After all those years as a back-bench oddity, his countrywide campaign to keep That Woman from becoming president, no matter how terrible the alternative, has introduced him to a whole new market of ‘low-info voters’ with pet causes to promote and money to throw away.
Senator Sanders is already eliding the difference between his lifelong ‘democratic socialist’ “proudly” Independent status and his short-lived campaign as a Democratic carpetbagger presidential candidate. I’m sure he’s envisioning happy years of green-room adulation, as he explains to the Media Village Idiots that — despite his own speechified wishes! — the greater good requires him to bow his snow-white aureole and back-stab the actual Democrats striving to mitigate the Republicans’ worst assaults on women and people of color (even the working-class ones). He’ll feel very badly about it, of course, but (as the talk-show bobbleheads nod along) sometimes sacrifices have to be made (mostly by other people, coincidentally)…
There is zero about Trump's history, policies, or appointments that suggest he will do anything other than be a shill for big business https://t.co/PTW6vraWOh
— Dan Pfeiffer (@danpfeiffer) November 17, 2016
Major Major Major Major
Mmm-hm
Why, I got told I was being insulting and uncivil for saying that the other day!
Sanders has peripheral neuropathy?
Mnemosyne
I’m still waiting to hear if Bernie still talks to Tad Devine. If so, why exactly are we giving Bernie a position where the Republicans will have a conduit to Democratic strategy?
neilcj
He’s willing to take a modest rise in the minimum wage if it is offered.
What a fking sellout.
Bailey
Ah, the return of the myopic Balloon Juice front pagers. Still fighting the last war, destined to lose the next one, too.
Guess what? The GOP won everything this year. While our party was sleeping, the GOP has racked up the vast majority of state legislatures and governorships. While our presidential candidate was sleeping, Trump marched through the Firewall and decimated us. We have exactly zero leverage at any level.
Who else is Bernie supposed to work with? If we weren’t a minority status—likely destined to remain one because god knows Dems can never get off their asses in midterms to get Congressional majorities–he’d be pushing for the $15 range.
Or is it your suggestion that Sanders just hold out for purity’s sake and leave minimum wage at $7.35 for the next 4 years? Because I’m pretty sure that’s where the GOP would be happy to leave it.
Mnemosyne
Last comment before sleep in a strange city: these cheap bastards at Kimpton installed big pump bottles of the toiletries in the bathroom instead of giving tiny bottles. At least they smell quite nice.
And the guy playing violin outside my window shouldn’t quit his day job.
Mnemosyne
@Bailey:
Maybe if Bernie hadn’t spent months helping Trump establish the “Crooked Hillary” meme, we wouldn’t be in this mess right now. But God forbid Bernie should accept one iota of blame for the disaster he helped create, amirite?
magurakurin
@neilcj: But the salient point is that it took a magnitude less time to profess his willingness to work with Trump than it did to profess a willingness to endorse and work with Clinton. And we heard for months on end that 12 dollars an hour was an absolute deal breaker and branded her as an incrementalist sell out totally beholden to Wall Street. The bullshit piled up so high in 2016, you needed wings to stay above it.
Fuck old white men. All of them. I want to hear more from Ruben Gallego (D-AZ) and the Hell No caucus. Young blood is what is needed now. I hold no ill will against Clinton, but her time in electoral politics is over. And Bernie, well, he ain’t gonna be around long no matter what you think of him.
more like this please
Major Major Major Major
I swear, these guys have a Google alert.
Some Guy
Bernie created the disaster?
Bernie created the disaster that was the Clinton 2016 rout?
I was born at night, but not last night.
Mnemosyne
@Major Major Major Major:
They’re easy to create, comrade.
Mnemosyne
@Some Guy:
So you think it was helpful for Bernie to call Hillary corrupt for a full year?
Some Guy
@Mnemosyne:
good point. Just because she was tight with thieves like Lloyd Blankenfein and Jamie Dimon and eagerly accepted their largess doesnt make her crooked at all. nope. pure as the driven snow she was.
Some Guy
Clearly it was Bernie that drove 30% of Hispanic voters into Trumps arms. All those Obama voters who pulled the trigger for Trump: Bernie the Monster made them do that.
world’s biggest monster, a vermont socialist.
Peale
So much for the United front. Hopefully January 21, 2017 we’ll finally be over that Nader business from the 2000 election.
Look, I’m about as cynical about the true working class roots of Bernie supporters as anyone. But, someone’s going to have to figure out how we prevent 30% of the party from purging 70% of the party in the hopes of attracting the 10% more voters we need to win. I think we need to forget everyone’s promises from the primaries.
Major Major Major Major
@Mnemosyne: I know, I know.
Elizabeth
Some guy is saying that “yes of course it was right and tight for St Bernie Sanders the Utterly Pure to spend a year screaming at a woman for not being as wonderful as he assumes himself to be.”
Frankly, I don’t get why Schumer is letting him have any say but then again, I don’t get why Sanders is working with Wall Street’s best girlfriend on the Hill anyway.
Major Major Major Major
Jesus, another person for the troll filter?
Bailey
@Mnemosyne:
Maybe if Hillary hadn’t spent her time waiting to run for president by chowing down at the Wall Street pig trough, she might have come off looking a little better in voters eyes, eh? And maybe if Bernie hadn’t set up Hillary’s email server in her basement….oh wait, no that didn’t happen.
Hillary’s problems were her own and were plainly obvious to anyone who wasn’t a completely partisan Dem up Hillary’s ass.
And seriously, you think Trump got “Crooked Hillary” from Bernie? Good lord.
wmd
Continue to insult 45% of Democratic primary voters. That should work out well.
John Revolta
Oooo. I’d love to stick around for this thread but I have to go pound nails into rocks with my forehead
Peale
@Elizabeth: maybe it’s because sanders voters appear to have emotional ties to him and if we lose them we won’t get more than 40% of the vote? Just like if Sanders runs all of the “moderate” democrats out of the party and focuses exclusively on winning 122,000 votes in the Great Lakes states, we won’t get more than 35% of the vote?
Halcyon
As someone who both voted for Bernie in the primaries and then volunteered for Hillary in the general…
Jesus, let it go. If we’re now gonna be pissed about “politician compromises with people they hate to get somewhat closer to what they wanted” then I’m real curious as to what you think Hillary would be doing right now if she’d won, given that even our best hopes didn’t have us likely to take back the house.
gene108
Bernie has a cult like following among his most ardent supporters. Instead of using that position to talk about how being engaged, as Democrats, will help this country (like President Obama has been saying), he made it about him and how only his Revolution can save America.
And in the process went out of his way to smear Hillary and Democrats as corrupt tools of Wall Street and big business, for not living up to his exacting standards.
His followers were booing Democratic speakers at the Convention in Philadelphia. He got them that worked up.
Major Major Major Major
Like I said before, I wouldn’t be surprised if Trump doesn’t play this guy like a fiddle.
gene108
@Halcyon:
She would be negotiating as President of the United States of America, a co-equal branch of government, as she would have some leverage from this position to enact her agenda.
Right now the Democrats and Bernie are on the outside looking in. They have no leverage, except in united opposition to Republicans.
Tissue Thin Pseudonym
@Halcyon: Hillary didn’t run on a platform of being pure and refusing to compromise on a $12.50 minimum wage. Sanders did. And yet, now he’s perfectly willing to compromise. As magurakurin pointed out, it took him next to no time to decide that Trump is someone he can work with, unlike Clinton, who he hammered for months before grudgingly doing so.
Bailey
@gene108:
Too bad she didn’t win. Or, apparently, bother to campaign much.
gene108
@Major Major Major Major:
Trump just saved
thousandsmilllions of jobs in Kentucky, by keeping Ford from relocating a plant to Mexico and he has not even been sworn in yet.And you think Trump is going to use his new found best bud Bernie as a prop for propaganda?
Unpossible!
James Powell
@Peale:
Emotional ties in politics!?! There’s no emotional ties in politics!
Seriously though, Bernie is a jerk for announcing that he is willing to work with Trump on something he was not willing to work with Clinton on. That’s really being a dick.
How about, “I’d be willing to work with Trump after he renounces and apologizes for the bigotry and hatred he promoted and supported during his campaign. And after he apologizes to the president for the birther nonsense. And after he withdraws the nomination of Sessions.”
And so on. If he isn’t going to stand up to Trump, then he’s a fraud and people whose emotional ties prevent them from being Democrats are beyond the reach of reason.
Darkrose
@Mnemosyne: Same at the hotel in SF I’m staying in for the iOS Developer Camp. I actually like it; I don’t have to fiddle with tiny bottles and caps.
Tissue Thin Pseudonym
@wmd: It might help if the guy that 45% voted for wasn’t out to insult the other 55% of the primary voters. This is what Sanders supporters keep forgetting: their guy lost. But, apparently, a fair chunk of them think that it’s only a problem to insult a minority of the primary voters; insulting a majority is not only fine, it’s desirable.
Major Major Major Major
@Mnemosyne: It’s not THAT stra… ok. Sleep well!
Major Major Major Major
@gene108: Remember, the best marks are the ones who think they’re in on it.
Halcyon
@Tissue Thin Pseudonym:
So, in other words, she’d be negotiating? With Republicans? How terrible.
As to being willing to compromise, imagine that, the world does not look like we thought it would after the election, so positions change. If Hillary *had* won, I’d hope he’d keep pushing for as much as he thought he could help get. And since she didn’t, if we think $10 is the most we can get, I hope people take *that*, too. Remember when we laughed and laughed at Republicans for being too stupid to say yes when the deal on the table was something they wanted but they refused to take it because it was Obama doing the offering? Yeah. Oppose Trump’s stupidity at every point. Take everything on offer that’s better than what we have now, though, then keep pushing for what it should have been in the first place anyway.
Darkrose
I’m shocked that the guy who could only talk about class wasted zero time signalling his willingness to work with the guy who’s inspiring a wave of domestic terrorism aimed largely against people of color. Gotta get those White working class votes, and if he has to throw the actual Democratic base under the bus to do so, well, it’s not like he’s an actual Democrat, right?
Peale
@James Powell: well at least we’re still talking about a minimum wage and the fact that democrats favor raising it…I mean, it’s not going to happen for four years. And we’re gonna be lucky if we still have a minimum wage. But I think we need to remember that politicians who aren’t running for office behave differently than those who are. I find Bernie arrogant beyond belief, but we’re going to have to get used to arrogant Bernie Sanders talking by about whatever he wants to talk about on any given day. I really don’t think he’ll vote for sessions, but there’s nothing we can do to stop trump from nominating him. I don’t think there can be hearings until next year.
Darkrose
@Tissue Thin Pseudonym: They have no problem insulting minorities.
Peale
@Tissue Thin Pseudonym: yep. That does annoy me. Trump won. Hillary lost. Somehow, that means Bernie won, too, somehow. Although I think that means he lost, too. But dammit, he certainly seems to act like he won.
James Powell
@Peale:
Who’s talking about a minimum wage? Trump isn’t. Bernie’s just trying to get attention and in the worst way. And please, don’t give us the “politicians who aren’t running for office” business. This guy blathered on for a year about how pure and untouched by the filth of political dealings he was. Now he’s just another whore for attention. He ought to quit politics. I’m sure FOX would have him on every night as long as he’s willing to slam actual Democratic politicians.
Jack the Cold Warrior
Somebody in DC has to be an adult. We been through 8 years of R gridlock and obstruction, with a slow and anemic recovery the result. Maybe you forgot, but Trump crushed the R leadership and 16 other candidates, and beat HRC in the electoral vote. Bernie is going to help US workers, hopefully forcing Trunp to keep those promises. We oppose him on the racist, sexist, loony stuff. And along the way defeat the right conservative R’s that have been obstructing everything.
It’s sad that Dems are stuck being responsible, and cleaning up after R disasters, Clinton after Reagan-Bush1, Obama after W. But sitting in the corner holding our breath accomplishes NOTHING.
I voted for Bernie in the Primary, and HRC in the General. Contributed to both. I sure as hell wish she had won.
I will say that I think Bernie would have won against Trump. HRC had too much baggage and this turned out to be a “change” election, the FBI and media didn’t help. Hillary being tied to Wall Street and NAFTA didn’t help either.
She was definitely the better candidate. And won the popular vote by over a million. But…that doesn’t put her in the White House.
I live in Piedmont NC. Outsourcing has decimated our region and its textile, furniture, and other manufacturers. I understand WHY the WWC voted Trump. I don’t like it, but that’s the reality. Was racism and sexism part of it? Oh hell yes. But the fear of the economy failing and losing jobs to more outsourcing and automation was the primary reason.
The DNC and DCCC didn’t help by running DLC/ Wall Street D’s, instead of “change” progressives. Why vote for Republican Light? We should have won the Senate and more seats in the House.
My hope is we can get the things done that Trump and Bernie agree on in the first year. And then Trump’s craziness and the 75 lawsuits pending ( and potentially scores more) will make him ineffectual, if not impeached. Buyers remorse will set in, so we work like hell to make gains in 2018 and we elect Elizabeth Warren or someone like her in 2020.
Major Major Major Major
At this point can there be any question that Republicans are evil?
Why would you work with them on anything? They’ll just find a way to fuck you over. They’re scorpions, it’s in their nature.
m0nty
This thread is not helpful at all. Stop it please.
Bailey
@Jack the Cold Warrior:
Agreed. That appeal (no matter how fake) to the working class that Trump has is the big differentiator between him and the rest of the crazy GOP. And it’s the one issue he’s going to have to make a little traction on to have any credibility with his voters. Dems would be smart to get something out of this earlier rather than later. Later I suspect we’ll be looking at President Pence and any hike in minimum wage would be met with full resistance.
Major Major Major Major
Doesn’t Trump, like, not actually think there should be a minimum wage?
Major Major Major Major
I mean what possible reason could you have to try and talk to Trump about raising something he doesn’t even believe should exist other than to get your name in the news.
neilcj
@Major Major Major Major: The main point of the speech was to ask Trump to fire Steve Bannon. The other stuff was tacked on like, “if you purge the racists from your team, I can get with you on these four things, even though you aren’t going far enough.”
magurakurin
@Tissue Thin Pseudonym:
But the thing I really wanted to point out, being that I am Captain Obvious, is that Bernie is old. Really fucking old. He can’t be the new leader because he ain’t gonna be around long enough. People die. Many of them die when they are 75. And if 2020 rolls around when I will be 58 years old….I damn sure don’t want to be voting for someone more than 20 years older than me. No. Fucking. Way.
Young people…wake the fuck up. Don’t follow Bernie, for fuck’s sake. Pick up the goddamn flag and lead.
Bailey
@magurakurin:
I’ve got no problem with wanting younger Dems to pick up the leadership mantle—hell, I would have been very happy if Dems could have offered anyone non-geriatric this year to run—but I fail to see what Bernie’s age has to do with laying out stakes in trying to strike an agreement on a minimum wage hike.
Major Major Major Major
@neilcj: That’s basically the opposite of what’s being reported. I’m not saying you’re wrong and it would’t surprise me at all if this were the case, but that’s the opposite of how it’s being reported.
Bailey
@Major Major Major Major:
No, it isn’t the opposite of how it’s being reported. You don’t even have to go further than CNN to find that out:
TS
I should look before I respond to someone – Bernie bros are taking over this thread – of course they are – their man is perfect – he just wants to work with the corrupt & crooked president elect.
Juice Box
@Bailey: of course, we know that Hillary took that sweet, sweet Wall St. cash because we could see that she gave a speech to the
American Camping Association, er, Goldman Sachs on her tax return which, unlike The Saint and Smallgloves, she released to the public.Applejinx
@Peale:
@Major Major Major Major:
Overton window.
As someone else who voted Bernie in the primary and at his request went Clinton in the general and tried to convince myself it wasn’t a horrible mistake, I’d like to know what other suggestions you have. Pure ideological obstructionism got the Republicans wiped out in their primary and now they’re stuck with President Trump, who is not appointing people central to the Republican Party, shall we say. Do you think for one moment that they want a Cabinet filled with Trump family members, alt-right media kingpins, and deranged back-benchers? None of which they properly control?
It’s an Overton window issue and a pretty canny move, because the last thing Trump really wants to do is be held to the same populist rhetoric that won him the election. He only wants to make the promises and do more rallies, and does not have backup for getting any of it done. The Republican leadership wants all such labor-related things simply gone, because they’re fools and don’t understand cause and effect properly. It’s like Zombie Eyed Granny Starver wanting every form of Medicare, Social Security etc. gone so he can have an Ayn Rand business paradise, not understanding that it exists and is Somalia (or ‘insert failed state hellhole here’, not sure if Somalia is the ideal example)
Seeming to make concessions while trying to get something that’s the opposite of what the Republicans want, out of Trump who’s (a) capable of GOING BIGLY and doing $15 just as a big fuck-you to his Republican failed puppetmasters and to show he’s way better than Bernie, and (b) capable of also getting rid of all minimum wage and making all states right-to-work (right-to-get-fired) in line with his catchphrase, is a perfectly legitimate tactic. You go ‘look how reasonable we’re being!’ and let it be implied that SOME raising of the minimum wage is going to happen regardless, and the only question is how much. Gives the option of grandstanding and giving only what was originally wanted but having that seem ‘generous’, which is a psychological ploy perfect for a Trump who wants to break Republicans and shatter their will, and it also makes Trump look like a treacherous asshole liar if he fails to at least do something for the working people as he promised.
Also, as to the general tone of ‘we all must hate Bernie and everything he does’: please proceed, governor. I’m very confident we in Vermont can keep Bernie in Washington pushing things to the left. I’m also very confident that ‘Clinton loyalists double down on globalist agenda and try to primary Sanders out of malice and vengeance for telling the truth about them’ is going to go over SOOOO well with both the people who reluctantly signed on to the Clinton ticket against their better judgement, and with the people who specifically voted against Clinton because they thought she was a power-mad harridan trying to destroy all her enemies in order to continue her reign of blood, money and power.
Oh, please, throw us into that briar patch. It will hurt the radical Left SO terribly much to have Clintonistas profess undying hatred for Bernie Sanders and blaming him for everything. It’s so frightening, the millions and billions of dollars in the Clinton war chest did SO much to bring us the responsible, incrementalist government we obviously needed. All that big donor fundraising, why, it was more effective than Jeb Bush’s brinks trucks of big donor fundraising.
Ought to team up, call it ‘Right To Gether’.
I’ll go back to ‘civil’ on threads not specifically dedicated to shitting all over Bernie Sanders as he tries to get incrementalist concessions out of a hostile and psychotic alt-right administration through guile and political pressure.
For fuck’s sake, people.
magurakurin
@Applejinx: and after Bernie dies? I don’t want to bet the farm on an aging 75 year old that looks like he is 85. Fine if he plugs the whole for a year or two…but time to look to new leaders. I want to see more from this Ruben Gallego and the Castro Brothers and Kamala Harris and some others.
Another Holocene Human
@Some Guy: I guess you don’t grok the power of propaganda. This election was all about propaganda. Bernie harmed Hilary by attacking her the same way from the left that she was later attacked from the right leading many observers to conclude that the attacks must be valid.
Another Holocene Human
Bernie also embittered his own supporters by continuing well past the point where he had mathematically lost and indulging in conspiracy theories. Many of them go on to not vote or vote third party.
mario
@Bailey: any comment after this is sujperfluous. It covers it all.
Applejinx
@magurakurin: I never said he should run for anything but Senator, ever again. Nobody’s taking that away but the oppo research the Clintons did is enough to convince me Bernie ought not run for President. Don’t forget he didn’t originally set out to win, he set out to change the narrative and succeeded beyond his wildest expectations.
That changing of the narrative is just as important as ever, and it’s also an obvious wedge issue between real Republicans and ‘Trumpkins’ who have no coherent policy beyond appeasing the mob. I personally think appeasing the mob on racism only, while doing nothing at all to help them economically and many things to hurt them, is as good as sabotaging Trump. He truly cannot trust the likes of Paul Ryan to decide things for him, and you’ll observe him doing nothing to support Ryan and the granny starver Republicans. There’s a real chance Trump will use his loose-cannon status to try and do something grandiose, even if it makes no sense at all: for instance, $15 minimum wage AND federal right-to-work, both at the same time.
Depends on how bad he wants to piss off Paul Ryan, who doubtless believes $15 minimum wage is genuinely evil and doomed. Doesn’t mean Ryan is right about that opinion. Doesn’t matter to Trump: he has no coherent policy ideas at all, and anything can happen. Also note that Trump could do a $15 minimum wage to piss off CLINTON supporters and drive a wedge on the left, by mocking Clinton for only talking $12.50… the practical considerations mean nothing to him, but he does understand playing people off against each other and driving wedges and that sort of psychological warfare.
I would never advocate trying to run Bernie for President again, he wasn’t supposed to be a ‘real’ campaign in the first place. Time to look to new leaders, and particularly ones who can position themselves as NOT globalizing, corporatist incrementalists that come bearing trade deals and exhorting people to ‘retrain’. Whether it’s outright welfare state or some sort of insane protectionism, there is no chance we can plausibly pretend that everybody’s gonna be computer programmers, or healthcare workers, or health insurance actuaries.
Shalimar
@Major Major Major Major: All they have to do is follow Cole on Twitter.
As for Bernie, I’m done defending his possible motives. The still-an-Independent thing pisses me off, and there is no point in him talking at all now about the compromises he might make in a few months. He managed to shut up for most of the primary when he could have done more to avoid having a president Trump, why can’t he keep doing it now?
I also get a bad feeling that Sanders is willing to sell out any non-white-male group to get what he wants for the all-important white male, of whom I am one but fuck that shit. We all rise or fall together. To Hell with Bernie.
Shalimar
@Applejinx:
There is no chance at all that Republicans are going to raise the minimum wage, whether Trump wants them to or not. They are much more likely to eliminate it entirely. If you’re right and they do something grandiose, it will be a massive Infrastructure bill that will be a boon to construction companies. Even there, it will be hell to get the Freedom Caucus on board with that much new spending, even with all the grifting opportunities for big business.
Applejinx
@Shalimar: Trump controls the mob, and ran on ‘drain the swamp’. It is not at all unexpected for him to act as if the same Republicans that repeatedly betrayed him (and he’s kept a vengeance list), are also the swamp.
Possibly, much like Clintonites with Sanders, to Trump the treacherous Republicans are the MAIN enemy. If they’re not now, they soon shall be when they oppose the goodies he wants to throw to his mob.
SFAW
To all you Hitlary apologists: just remember, Al Gore lost Tennessee in 2000
Shalimar
@Applejinx: You do understand that he can act like Republican congresscritters are the main enemy all he wants., but he still can’t pass new laws all by himself. right? Congress has to vote on them first. Somehow, it doesn’t seem like calling Mitch McConnell a swamp is going to help get minimum wage increased.
edit: I also suspect that if push comes to shove, the Freedom Caucus will maintain the support of the mob in a fight against Trump. After all, they got elected because they are members of the Republican mob and see things exactly the same way.
the wesson
I’m not going to go around pointing fingers at Bernie and his Sandernistas, but I think this means we can’t count on Bernie to be a resistance leader against Trump.
If you’re concerned about Russia’s hand in this election, then consider that Bernie proposed an alliance with Russia against Islamists in 2015.
I’m not saying Bernie’s a bad guy or whatever. Just saying I don’t think he’ll help lead the charge against Trump – which, in my opinion, is the work that needs doing, if we want to be able to continue to vote for things like a minimum wage.
I also suspect that if push comes to shove, the Freedom Caucus will maintain the support of the mob in a fight against Trump. After all, they got elected because they are members of the Republican mob and see things exactly the same way.
What – are you saying that Trump supporters and teabaggers are NOT the same thing? Huh.
tybee
@Bailey:
i understand that you’re still very upset that your candidate got whipped by hillary.
tough shit. get over it.
Racer X
Reading Anne’s article and most of these comments it is easy to see why we lost. Wake up! 45% of the Democratic voters and the rest of non-Democratic part of the country – really, really loathe your attitudes. Strongly suggest removing your heads from your posteriors, losing the smugness and trying to figure out why people like me who should be your close allies are sick of you. Time to step out of your bubbles.
Groucho48
Chance of Republican Congress bringing up an increase in the minimum wage? Zero
Chance of Trump doing it? Very small but more than zero.
Would such an increase improve the lives of millions of Americans? Yes.
What’s to lose?
Gvg
The problem with trying for any deal with Trump, is he has a history of not keeping them. This is a problem with trying to use the clear differences between trump and the political GOP. Bernie might be trying something or he might be just gullible. It’s not that easy to figure out what will work yet. The GOP also hasn’t been great about keeping deals but they haven’t made many either.
Raven Onthill
Geez, guys, put it away. Clinton lost to sexism, bad luck, and bad press, not Bernard Sanders, who by the way has vowed to fight racism from Trump. If he caves on that, then you can blast him. Right now Sanders and Warren are what we got on the left and we’d better get behind them.
What are Congressional Democrats supposed to do, come out against what concessions can be gotten from the Republicans? That was stupid when the Republicans did it, and it’s stupid now.
The two who worry me are Schumer and Durbin, Senate Minority Leader and Whip. Durbin, at least has a good record on judicial nominations, but Schumer has some problematic positions. And we really don’t know who is going to fight when it comes down to it.
gene108
@Halcyon:
I do not want to give Republicans credit for raising the minimum wage. You think rural WWC voters are hard to reach now, imagine Repiblicans touting something that actually helps people.
Bobby Thomson
@Bailey: that’s where they’re going to leave if, you dipshit. The only thing Sanders is doing is using his last few years on earth to normalize a Nazi for nothing in return. Christ, I hate that asshole.
MaryL
I actively dislike Bernie and am predisposed to think the worst of him, but I actually think this is a good stance for him to take. I mean, I doubt it will work, but it’s not a bad way to frame the issue and put pressure on Trump. That doesn’t mean that he’s not also in it for the attention, or that he’s not generally kind of a jerk.
Raphael Kearns
Now that Bernie got a taste of all that attenshun from the librul media I guess he’ll forgo his previous gig with Thomm Hartmann and “Lunch with Bernie.” Guess he’s gotten to big for his rumpled britches now and the only thing he’ll retain from his alliance with Hartmann will be the moniker “America’s Senator.”
I think Bernie really let an opportunity go by, his book is selling for a discounted $16.36 at Barnes and Noble a 39% drop over the $27 list price. But I’m sure the
RubesBros will just go ahead and send him the a check for the additional $10.64.Percysowner
@Major Major Major Major: Two. I’ve been avoiding comments for a while and now there are 2 new commenters that are telling me all sorts of wonderful facts about pie.
Emma
I think most of us should remind ourselves of Teresa Nielsen Hayden’s saying “just because you’re on their side doesn’t mean they’re on your side.” I am perfectly happy to work with Bernistas on issues of common interests, but I am always aware that they will screw us over the moment their Sainted Leader tells them to.
Applejinx
@gene108:
Precisely. This is exactly Trump’s interest in doing it, and exactly the Republican’s interest in (temporarily?) abandoning their ‘principles’ like their taste for deficit scolding, and going big with it.
IOKIYAR. It depends on whether they want to cement electoral dominance for another twenty year stretch, or get turfed out in two.
And you can have someone who’s obviously left wing credited for making it ‘bipartisan’ and ‘really a leftwing idea anyway’… or you can refuse to have any part in it because Sanders cooties, have them do it ANYWAY, and then run for election on having stubbornly opposed hikes in the minimum wage because Republicans aren’t supposed to be for the working class, which belongs to Democrats.
Some of you guys have no idea how easily you could get played. It’s all politics and IOKIYAR.
Ella in New Mexico
@Mnemosyne:
You and Anne Laurie and all of the rest of you who cannot get over the fact that Sanders dared to run spent the entirety of the past 18 months in a bubble of denial about our nominee’s weaknesses. Instead of figuring out who they were of concern to and how to get her message across, you mocked and expressed disdain for them.
The majority of people who voted for Sanders in the primaries voted for Clinton in the general. He came out as her ally. We lost because more people in this country are motivated by their anger and their hate and their incredibley soft, malleable minds in which they could call Hillary “corrupt” while ignoring facts shoved right in their faces and voting for THE most corrupt candidate in American history.
Work on figuring out what to do about THAT, and lay off the whiny “Bernie’s a carpetbagger and he stole it for us” . It’s unseemly, it’s untrue, and it’s leaving us all stuck in neutral right now when we should be driving 60 mph. We got shit to do.
J.
Fuck Bernie. It was always about him.
dm
Looks like Bernie read this op-ed on how the Italians finally rid themselves of Berlusconi: http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/18/opinion/the-right-way-to-resist-trump.html
Maybe Anne should read it, too.
tobie
Bernie understood two things about campaigning that Hillary didn’t (neither of these things is good in my book). (1) Politics in the 21st century is about BRANDING. You don a MAGA hat or plaster your car with BERNIE stickers because it says who you are. It’s how you identify yourself in the world in much the same way that devoted sports fans wear their team jerseys.Your brand is you, and it makes you proud. (2) Weaponize Hate. It doesn’t matter whom you target for your venom but target someone. Scapegoating works. That’s why in the waning days of Sanders’ primary campaign Mr. Big Ideas was still able to mobilize crowds with rants against the DNC. His whole campaign became about…Debbie Wasserman Schultz. That something so utterly petty spilled over into the convention and then the general election shows just how dangerously effective branding and weaponizing hate are. Should we call this strategy by its name? It’s demagoguery.
tobie
@Ella in New Mexico: Sorry Ella but what is unseemly is the the way in which BS is using the election for self-aggrandizement. He’s invited the scorn. There are many ways he could have responded to the election, and the best would have been to try to solidify the party in the face of what will be a rout of the country. He chose instead to take the bus that had already driven over HRC and put in reverse to make sure he got her a second time.
msdc
@Jack the Cold Warrior: It’s a good thing Bernie didn’t have any baggage!
I’d be perfectly happy to stop fighting the last war if so many progressives weren’t determined to learn all the wrong lessons from it.
As for legislative strategy, the Republicans have already shown us the blueprint: total obstruction to drive down the opponent’s popularity (which already starts at record lows) and pick up seats. Voting for his legislation would only give Trump more political capital, which he’d use to appoint corrupt cronies and outspoken segregationists in key oversight positions. Passing an infrastructure bill would literally be supporting white nationalism to keep the trains running on time.
FlipYrWhig
Bernie Sanders is terrible, and if you still like him, you are a credulous fool.
FlipYrWhig
The thing that particularly aggravates me here is that Sanders is gleefully abetting the idea that Democrats just plain forgot the wonderful working class, oops, silly us, we were only concerned with black people and transfolk in bathrooms, teehee! Hillary Clinton had a progressive platform that would have helped the wonderful working class a lot. Sanders et al. are acting like that never happened. It is malicious and self-serving and reprehensible. Fuck him, hard, with something jagged, something he last used when he claims to have been a member of the working class himself.
Brachiator
@Mnemosyne:
We should be past the point of blame passing and fingerpointing. If Trump represents a serious problem, we need to take it seriously, and find a unified strategy to fight it.
@msdc:
You don’t have a choice. Trump and his people are not going to sit around and wait for you to decide who your allies should be.
The Republicans have used the blueprint to build a new edifice: control of all branches of government and the Supreme Court. What are you going to do now?
Do you suggest passive resistance to all GOP proposals? The quandary here is that voters will perceive Democratic Party opposition as the same old “do nothing” stance of establishment politicians. This would be unfair and untrue, but as long as Trump has some popularity and legitimate authority, blanket opposition to him looks peevish.
Brachiator
@FlipYrWhig:
Nobody has to like him. The only question is whether he is a useful ally. Looking at the goons Trump is surrounding himself with, I’m not quite ready to kick Sanders to the curb.
Mike in dc
My hope is that everyone will be more pragmatic in 2020/2024 with respect to the presidential candidates. Focus on the policies proposed and the general direction they take. Hopefully most candidates will be moving in the same general direction, so we’re not having ridiculous amd counterproductive fights over purity.
Nick
Long-time reader, not usually a commenter .
Why are you idiots attacking Bernie Sanders? Trump is in the Presidency, the Republicans hold the House, the Senate, and soon the Supreme Court, and Bernie Sanders is your Enemy #1? Jeepers. Get one of those little tools that you use to prioritize your time, and put “bitch and moan about a Vermont politician who caucuses with the Democrats and supports their legislation” on page 254, just below “spend several years fighting about early 2016”.
Kay
President-elect of our budding banana republic is promoting his family business again using the office.
Time to launch another program to tell second graders to “reach higher”, I guess.
Nick
@Mike in dc:
And add to that — have a real primary with several candidates who aren’t defined by how much money they have in their war chest. Don’t you think that there’s an excellent chance that Clinton was hurt by basically being the front-runner, in both the primary and the general election, for at least two years?
smintheus
Wow, the Bernie hate never gets old does it Annie? He’s pushing for a modest increase in the minimum wage that Trump might potentially go for?! Yep, what a sell out.
smintheus
@Ella in New Mexico: Particularly ironic given that the same commenters have been prone to hagiography when the subject is Ted Kennedy, whose bitter challenge of Carter in 1980 did contribute significantly to weakening a sitting Democratic president. An act of petty vandalism by a Senator who was carrying insurmountable personal baggage.
J
@Peale: Very well put indeed. I would have used all caps if I weren’t against that sort of thing.
Brachiator
@Nick:
Very funny, and to the point.
I agree with you big time and enjoyed reading your post. There’s lots of work to do. We got 99 problems, but Bernie ain’t one.
tobie
By the way…before we all get on Trump’s groovy infrastructure train, it’s worth pointing out that his aim to privatize infrastructure. Companies will gain ownership of roads, bridges, airports, and ports in exchange for renovating them. Am looking forward to the day when I have to take out a subscription service to use highways, as I already have to do for broadband. Short term, you’ll get jobs; long term, you’ll get the complete ownership of the country by a few corporations. Any support for this plan represents a betrayal of every progressive value. BS should know better.
J
Trump made a lot of noise about being the friend of the working man & woman. Why not try challenge/shame him into living up to his promise? It’s not going to happen, and it might show a few people how hollow the swine’s lying promises are.
Mnemosyne
@James Powell:
This. Thank you for putting it so succinctly.
Brachiator
@J:
I don’t think that Trump is capable of feeling shame.
Brachiator
@James Powell:
Sanders is a senator, and Trump is president-elect. Who else is Bernie going to work with?
This is probably not going to happen, on Trump’s part. Now what?
Schlemazel
@smintheus:
He was not willing to make the same allowances when CLinton proposed a better deal. Sorry you missed th point.
Amaranthine RBG
Sexism does explain just about everything, doesn’t it?
Schlemazel
@J:
He will tell you that working men and women will be helped by government getting out of the way & letting business do what is best for business. He will tell them that ending union interference will make them better off and that the minimum wage hurts hiring.
And they have proven themselves dumb enough to believe it
Amaranthine RBG
@smintheus:
Eh, what difference could a few thousand dollars make to a poor person, really?
Better to remain ideologically pure
cbear
@Nick: Lol. Yep.
smintheus
@Schlemazel: Clinton is a Democrat. Sorry you missed the point: Democrats can do better. We’ll be fortunate if Trump doesn’t try to eliminate the minimum wage.
Amaranthine RBG
@James Powell:
Seriously?
Could you tell me the last time that any candidate in a presidential primary who has staked out a position has said to an opponent “Well, we are really not that far apart and I could compromise with you.”
NEVER FUCKING HAPPENED.
You understand there is a difference between running in a primary and actually governing, right?
the wesson
@tobie: I second you. Branding AND tribalism AND better themes AND better memes. Hillary (and her campaign) had many great qualities but not great on the theme/meme front
In terms of serving red meat to our base (the part that’s concerned about social justice) the Trump adminstration will be a heaping platter of steaming chunks. I think Hillary’s campaign attacked this fairly well.
We have to make sure the same initiative happens about economic justice. Since the Trumpists are set to steal everything not nailed down, they should hand us plenty of red meat on this as well. But there needs to be a positive message too.
And we can come in on the patriotic front. e.g. John McCain doesn’t like the Russian influence in this, to start with. Maybe our intelligence services will drop a bomb about Russian ties, we can hope.
msdc
@Brachiator:
Um, the answer is right there in the blueprint: legislative obstruction through the filibuster. Our Senate caucus is significantly larger than their “41-59 majority.”
The experience of 2009-2016 (when Republicans offered total obstruction to a genuinely popular president) suggests otherwise. Failure to keep their promises will get blamed on the party that controls the White House and Congress. For an alternative scenario, consider how well capitulation and compromise served the Democrats in 2001-2002.
This isn’t a big mystery, folks.
John S.
Commence circular firing squad!
Maybe Democrats will get this bullshit out of their system at some point before Republicans get a supermajority in congress (2018) or before Trump ends up being a two term president (2020).
Libarbarian
Obstruct Obstruct Obstruct! Don’t work with him on anything, even shit you would normal supporter and especially NOTHING that will help the animals who voted for him.
Practically, in every election to follow we have to ask “are you better off than you were when Trump was elected” and we want the answer to be No!
Morally, the trash deserves punishment! The put an animal in the white house. They need to suffer! I don’t want my politicians to piss on them if they are on fire.
cbear
@Libarbarian:
Finally, a voice of reason with a sure-fire winning strategy. I salute you.
J
@Schlemazel: Alas, I suspect that you are (mostly) right. Somewhere high if not at the top of the list of things that leave me dumbfounded and appalled by many Trump voters–it’s below the open embrace of, or indifference to, the racism and xenophobia for instance–is their belief that salvation lies in submitting to a benevolent billionaire. It’s as though they thought Daddy Warbucks in Little Orphan Annie was a real person.
BobbyMac
The primary. is. fucking. over.
Libarbarian
@cbear:
I sense a weak attempt at sarcasm.
Do you think “vote for us because we helped Trump improve your life” is a winning strategy?
J R in WV
@Percysowner:
My favorite pies are Pecan, Sour Cherry and Lemon. I used to bake a lot, and we used to keep a small flock of yardbirds for their eggs. One evening I decided to fix a special dinner, I don’t recall if it was a special occasion, or if I just decided to have a nice dinner.
Anyway, stir-fry, I had a new Secrets of Chinese Cooking book and did a pretty good job. Before starting dinner, I made a lemon meringue pie. Because we had free range chickens, the egg yolks I had to work with were especially golden. The lemon pie filling was way past yellow. And the meringue was pretty special too, I was able to sculpt it into perfect swirls.
So we ate the dinner, with all the summer-time fresh vegs in it, enjoyed it so much, saved room for that lemon meringue pie with the prize-winning appearance. We each took a bite, the tip of the slice, with the hand-rolled crisp crust, put it in our mouth, and each made a face.
It was Nothing Pie! You could tell it was supposed to be lemon pie because of the zest and lemon extract in the meringue. But when I investigated the cooling area in the kitchen, there was the fresh squeezed lemon juice, in the measuring cup, beside the bowl I whipped up the lemon pie filling. The pie itself had no flavor other than that of excess sweetness.
So disappointing. It was beautiful, browned swirls, golden lemony-looking filling, could have been on a cooking site or magazine’s cover. But no taste.
Is there a lesson in here about today’s political situation? Maybe so. Because Trump is an empty suit with no internal strength. We can see him already, appointing people whose only qualification is sharing hate for the right despicable groups, which seems to be part of the definition of empty suit to me.
No lemon juice in Trump, just High Fructose Corn Sweeteners, especially good for diabetics and the overweight. Empty calories with no redeeming features.
Sad.
And so much for the pie filter !! ;-)
Libarbarian
Also, “we” need a progressive infowars to throw every conspiracy at him as possible.
Did you know Trump administration is building what look like camps in the southwest desert? What are they for?
Did you know Steve Bannon was in ‘mass muderers s contact list but it was erased by the FBI?
J R in WV
@Brachiator:
We don’t want The Donald to feel shame, we want the voters who supported him to feel shame, and vote for a Democrat next time.
See how that works?
James Powell
@Libarbarian:
Reminds me of Gephardt and Daschle’s “vote for us because we stood with President Bush” strategy.
Nick
@J R in WV:
I think this strategy of shaming voters the next time around sounds amazing, looking forward to the Democratic supermajority.
James Powell
@Amaranthine RBG:
You understand there is a difference between opposing a president who wants Sessions to be his AG and rolling over like a dog begging for a belly rub, right?
Applejinx
@James Powell:
Do you really want to go to the mat for the proposition ‘there is no sense expecting better from Hillary Clinton than you think you could get from freaking Donald fucking Trump’?
Sounds like the issue is Fight For 15. Why the fuck was this ‘work with Clinton on’, as in Clinton demanding people shouldn’t be paid nearly as much as that? How is it Bernie’s great sin that he believed Clinton belonged on the side of 15$ minimum wage, why are any of you trying to argue against that and how is it surprising that Donald Trump can reasonably be expected to be MORE of an asshole about it?
But no, disgraceful is failing to ‘work with Clinton’ on lowering expectations. She should be held to the same standards as Donald Trump and you shouldn’t expect more. Be grateful she would go to 12.50$, it’s against her better judgement and she doesn’t really want to go as far as that so her concessions should be appreciated!
What. The. FUUUUCCCK.
MCMIAG
@Applejinx: LMAO i was about to applaud an insightful post while SEARCHING FOR PURPOSE AND MEANING IN THE EQUESTRIAN WASTELAND and then I see its……….you. Such a small world.
Jack the Cold Warrior
@msdc: So, for political gain, Dems should screw over the American people for the next 4 years trying to stop anything good being done, like increasing the minimum wage, taking away tax breaks and subsidies for US jobs and factories from going overseas, instead directing them to companies that keep them here?
That would make us power seeking ogres, just like the R’s have been the last 8 years, and they were the 8 Clinton years. And the 8 W years that hurt us and killed hundreds of thousands and tortured thousands in the Middle East, got thousands of US soldiers killed, wounded, TBI’ed, and PTSD’ed. That hurt the American people badly. No national healthcare, a terrible welfare reform bill, how many died of treatable disease, (45,000 /yr according to Harvard). Obama wasn’t perfect, but he did claw out an imperfect ACA that has saved thousands. He got the economy moving again, despite intense R monkey wrenching.
I don’t want Dems to be partially responsible for increasing suffering in this nation. We should work for things that Bernie and Trump agreed on during the campaign that help people. Isn’t that why we are D’s instead of Machiavellian R’s?
Jack the Cold Warrior
@FlipYrWhig: OMG. Hillary had a progressive policy platform BECAUSE BERNIE STAYED IN TO THE CONVENTION. I read her policies at the beginning of the primary, they sounded nice but had tons of weasel words that could used to justify caving in to Wall Street had she become President. By policy platform time they had greatly improved.
You embittered “Hillary supporters who hate Bernie for daring to challenge our Queen” seem to forget that Bernie embarked on a stiff campaign schedule for her after Labor Day in the Midwestern and other states. Even in the Primaries, he stated repeatedly that Hillary would be 1,000 % better than Trump as President. The only thing that would make you forgive him for running against Hillary would be if he committed ritual hari-kari on the steps of the Capitol.
lofgren
Yeah, because Sanders never would have worked with Hillary if she had won. I’m sure he’d be out there demanding total obstruction. That totally sounds like him.