.
Via NYMag, “Here’s What President Obama Told Sasha and Malia After Trump Won the Election“:
… In a sprawling new interview in The New Yorker, President Obama shared with David Remnick what he told his own daughters, Sasha and Malia, in the aftermath of Trump’s win:
“What I say to them is that people are complicated,” Obama told me. “Societies and cultures are really complicated … This is not mathematics; this is biology and chemistry. These are living organisms, and it’s messy. And your job as a citizen and as a decent human being is to constantly affirm and lift up and fight for treating people with kindness and respect and understanding. And you should anticipate that at any given moment there’s going to be flare-ups of bigotry that you may have to confront, or may be inside you and you have to vanquish. And it doesn’t stop … You don’t get into a fetal position about it. You don’t start worrying about apocalypse. You say, O.K., where are the places where I can push to keep it moving forward”…
What’s on my to-do list for the day, and the weekend: chipping away at the physical mess that’s taken over my yard and my house over the past few months. This may be our last ‘nice’ outdoor-work weather for a while, and having a concrete accomplishment I can look at usually helps my mood…
***********
Apart from self-care, what’s on the agenda for the day?
rikyrah
Morning, Everyone ???
Van Buren
Getting a root canal done this morning, so I have that going for me.
magurakurin
This is what I’m talkin’ about. Fuck comity. Fuck finding common ground with this asshole. This is where the Democrats all need to be right now. Time to start listening to the younger members.
Video
Arizona congressman uses infrastructure speech to call Trump danger to nation
Waldo
@magurakurin: Good for Gallego. He’s building a wall and making Trump pay.
evodevo
Good for the Congresscritter – a voice in the wilderness, unfortunately.
WereBear
@magurakurin: Thank you so much. That is exactly what I was raving about on Tuesday.
Trump & his own administration should be fought tooth and nail and pointy heel and sharp tongue. Everywhere and at every opportunity.
This is exactly why I was so incensed about the way our Dem leaders were acting. This is exactly why republicans walk all over us, and rules, and laws, and common decency.
We don’t push back. Out of a mistaken sense of being the Bigger Person, we don’t do anything to stop them.
Russ
Our country is just beginning a defining event. As we move towards the conclusion of this troubled President’s reign of “error ” the identity of every American will be easily discovered by getting honest answers to some simple questions.
Is money more important to you than human life?
Do you believe in global warming?
Does your religion come before country?
Your questions will be unique to you but they will allow you to identify which side people are on.
Another Holocene Human
Wise words from the President.
My therapist told me I ought to dialogue with people on the other side more. I told him no thanks, there’s no reasoning with pure, screaming id. I said they need to calm down and chill out first.
magurakurin
Kamala Harris is getting in on the game, too.
California Sen.-elect Kamala Harris moving to lead fight against Trump on immigration
new blood.
Quinerly
@magurakurin:
Thanks for the posts. Actually lifted my morning mood.
Keith G
This will likely be TMI….for….well every one. Coincidental with America’s great pain last week was my personal challenge of a prostatectomy. The great news is that unlike our political cancer, mine was localized and easily removed (Thanks Obama….I’m writing you a letter soon). Dealing with urinary incontinence is more draining (sorry) than I could have conceived. I am doing the exercises to mitigate this, but the inclination is to stay isolated until it improves.
The agenda for today is to get out and start reasserting myself into the spaces I once haunted. This is always my favorite time of the year, so I need to de-cloister myself and get moving about.
WereBear
@evodevo: Why on earth should he be a voice in the wilderness? Why aren’t the Dem leadership lining up behind him? For that matter, since they are supposed to be our leaders, why haven’t they started doing this already?
There are lots of us who feel what he is doing is the right thing to do, and when I take to the phones again on Monday, that is what I am going to say.
Quinerly
Pence booed at “Hamilton” performance!
bemused
@Another Holocene Human:
Just wondering how much experience your therapist has had being around Trumpheads. If they are not your family members, co-workers, neighbors, etc. you are in close contact with, I don’t think some people could truly understand what “dialogue” with them is like.
Another Scott
I’m all for comity and talking to the other side and working for common ground. But we have to be prepared.
Early on in the campaign, Trump said wages in America were too high. Later on he said he’d be in favor of raising the minimum wage modestly. Bernie says he’ll work with Trump on that. Bernie’s likely to be in for a surprise…
If we’ve learned anything in this campaign with Trump it’s that he will say anything. But look at the people he’s appointing. Look at the breaking of norms by his transition staff. Do we really think that he has any interest in raising the minimum wage or putting tariffs on Chinese imports or doing anything about NATO? I don’t. He’s interested in cutting taxes for himself and his cronies, spending money on weapons and the security state, and bullying others to show how tough he is (e.g. he thinks he can get NATO countries to pay more by bullying them and thereby show what a big man he is. He’ll find a way to claim victory even if nothing happens. He’ll not make any policy changes there on his own – he doesn’t care. He has no actual philosophy about NATO. Whoever he appoints to the NATO jobs will run the policy, and institutional traditions, history, and lethargy will make it difficult to implement major changes. The wildcard is Putin, but Trump isn’t going to want to be Putin’s puppet – all it will take is a Tweet about that for Trump to want to stand up to him. ;-).
We need to be prepared to fight any actual proposal that Trump presents to Congress, any Executive Order, any appointment. The details matter – “infrastructure” that is smoke and mirrors and sells off the country is not something I can support. We can’t plan to work with him based on one “nice” statement he made in the campaign; we can’t plan to fight him based on one “horrible” statement involving some impossibility (like an impregnable wall with a big beautiful door). We have to recognize that he’s enabling a lot of people who want to push horrible policies, but many of those policies conflict internally. We have to be good politicians and keep our eyes on the prize and have flexible tactics.
We have to develop a positive message and be willing to fight theirs. We have to be prepared for them trying to split our economic populists from our civil rights defenders. We have to develop plans to split their coalition (the plutocrats vs the “libertarians” vs the “religious right” vs the “traditionalists” vs …) as well.
It doesn’t cost us anything to say “we’re willing to work with Trump on areas of mutual interest and concern” as long as we also say “as long as we can agree to protect the rights and traditions our parents and grandparents handed down to us”….
We (Team D) cannot sit around and wait for legislation to appear to start to develop a plan. By that time, the memes are set, the RWNJ has had the propaganda out for months, and it is extremely difficult to change the outcome. It will be difficult in any event, but we need to be working on this stuff now.
Good for the folks working on the strategy and tactics.
Have a good weekend, everyone!
Cheers,
Scott.
raven
With a cold front coming in there will be 20mph winds on the beach so the decision is made and we’ll pack u and go home 9 days early. I sure hope she can get the surgery done before Thanksgiving.
WereBear
There’s a great blog post that sums up the futility of “discussing” that I read this morning:
Quinerly
OK, I feel silly about my Hamilton post. Didn’t read previous thread and woke up at 4 AM listening to BBC’s coverage of it. Repeated coverage.❤
WereBear
@magurakurin: The fact that this speech is not anywhere but the local news website and a few blogs indicates how much this defiance scares the opposition.
Good. That means it’s the right thing to do.
The Dem Leaders who said, “Oh, we’ll work with Trump to help all Americans” they get the front page, don’t they?
JPL
@raven: It’s pretty windy here, and the leafs are finally falling with some help.
Have a safe trip home.
Mary G
@Keith G: Good to hear they got it all. Keep getting better.
Baud
@rikyrah: Morning, r.
greennotGreen
@Russ: Religion should be more important than country because the eternal is more important than the temporal, but there’s also the whole “render unto Caesar” part. In other words, one should accommodate the needs of a pluralistic society to every extent possible while remaining true to ones spiritual life. So demonstrate and advertise against abortion rights, if that’s what you believe, but don’t blow up clinics and don’t deny other people the right to follow their own consciences.
RedDirtGirl
@Keith G: So glad to hear that things went well. Keep up the exercises and I bet things will be better soon.
JPL
@Quinerly: IMO, it is important to mention again. The VP elect ran an anti-immigration campaign filled with hate, and then went to see Hamilton. Sometimes there is just to much irony in the world.
greennotGreen
@Keith G: Good luck. Don’t let what I hope will be temporary incontinence issues keep you home when you want to be out! As the advertisers reminds us constantly, there are disposable solutions!
greennotGreen
@JPL: A campaign based on hate of immigrants gave us our first immigrant (and nude model) First Lady. Irony has died and is now a rotting corpse.
WereBear
@greennotGreen: Which is exactly why I have become contemptuous about the endless whining from the press about how Democrats have to understand where the Trump voters are coming from and work with them, give them what they want, act like they are the only ones who matter.
OzarkHillbilly
@magurakurin: Duly given to.
eclare
@magurakurin: A fucking men.
SFAW
@greennotGreen:
But my religion says that people who support a woman’s right to choose are pro-abortion murderers masquerading as something else. Therefore, my religion demands that I prevent them from doing their evil by any means necessary. Because remaining true to my religion does not allow me to let those murderers live.
In other words: there are plenty of theocratic regimes in the world, the “fuck the heathens” evangelicals are more than welcome to move there.
Or do you not yet see that your two sentences are inherently contradictory at some level?
JMG
There are many different sorts of Trump voters, so it matters how one talks to them. The unreachables are just that. Don’t bother. If they’re family, you’ve already either cut them out of your life or reached detente by dropping the topic of politics. Plain old Republicans who stuck with their party can be sadly (not angrily) told, “you’ve made a serious mistake, and you’ll soon see.” Then drop the topic. The alienated voters who took a chance with him should simply be asked to keep tabs on their own lives to see if they get any better. They won’t.
All of us can succumb to hate and fear. We all do from time to time. But we have to assume most folks can’t sustain them for long and don’t want to. If they do, politics is kind of beside the point.
eclare
@Keith G: Good luck!
OzarkHillbilly
@raven: Took 16 days for my shoulder but bones are different. Crossing my fingers.
SFAW
@Keith G:
Glad the surgery turned out OK (for the most part). I’ll keep my fingers crossed that the other thing works itself out soon.
bemused
@WereBear:
The blog post rings absolutely true to me. It’s just so discouraging that we have to wait for demographics to turn this plagued ship around. I’m terrified of the damage that will be done before that happens. I’m sick at heart that our adult kids and grandkids will suffer the effects of this election for who knows how long.
The post confirms what most of us already know. The rightwingers deny reality and just dig in deeper when confronted with it. There will be very few of them who will see the light even after this election. It’s why so many of us are now reevaluating our relationships with them.
Iowa Old Lady
@Quinerly: Good news is always welcome.
Baud
@magurakurin:
Agree.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Baud: Angling for 2020, eh?
SFAW
@magurakurin:
“Soon-to-be-former Rep. Gallego? The Sessions Squad (a/k/a “SS”) is here and would like to speak to you about your immigration status. Yes, I told them you were born in Chicago. It did not seem to matter — I heard something about ‘anchor baby.’ Shall I call your lawyer? Wait, they’re telling me you don’t have that right, as a probably-illegal-alien.”
and so on.
cmorenc
@Russ:
Your third question about “religion before country” isn’t the accurate identity-solvent you think it is. Yes, it will snare hard-right evangelicals, but it will also snare much too vast a proportion of what fishery biologists call “bycatch”, including progressive-leaning religious folk. Even among conservative-leaning folk, for most of them it doesn’t have the meaning you think it does. Yesterday, I (along with a thousand others) attended the graduation ceremony of my nephew (and 46 fellow graduates) from the North Carolina Highway Patrol Academy – a theme repeatedly visited by many of the speakers was “God, family, profession” in that order, along with the importance of personal integrity and maintaining the reputation for such among the public. And what they meant by that ordering of things isn’t what you think it is, although in the case of the hardest-right, politically active evangelicals, you do have a point. Instead, what they mean is that core moral values and caring for the people who are your support system are the base foundation for profession (in this case being a highway patrol-person – there was a female POC in the graduating class) and country. BTW: the North Carolina Highway Patrol has, far more than most police departments across the country, successfully maintained a deserved reputation for integrity and non-discrimination – reflected in the composition of the graduating class about to be handed keys to patrol cars yesterday. Not enough women, but plenty of POC.
OzarkHillbilly
@SFAW: When the political argument begins and ends with, “The Bible says…”, this is a person who can not separate the 2.
Another Scott
@JMG: This.
And even if it seems like talking to a True-Believing Trump Supporter is a waste of time, we can’t know the future. A comment can plant a seed of doubt that starts growing later. Or maybe the TBTS will relay your comment to a friend who says, “maybe s/he has a point…” Or maybe your comment will be overheard by someone who agrees but is afraid to speak up. Or … It’s important to not give up on people in general.
It’s hard for people to change, but all of us do to some extent over the years. E.g. Abortion wasn’t always the over-arching litmus test for religious conservatives. Everyone, ultimately, has a do-not-cross line and a majority has lines closer to ours than to Trump’s. Things do change, and sometimes very suddenly (look at the Confederate flag in SC)…
Thanks.
Cheers,
Scott.
greennotGreen
@OzarkHillbilly: @SFAW: I think one must strive for balance based, in part, on humility. I am a human being with a finite brain. It so happens I personally believe in something like a universal consciousness or “God” or whatever you might call it. Of course, I could be wrong. Now, suppose I am a fundamentalist Christian. I believe, based on a few isolated verses, that homosexuality is a sin. I could support legislation to criminalize it…or I could show some humility and think that maybe I am not the ultimate arbiter of God’s will and accept that I live in a pluralistic society where not everyone will subscribe to my moral code.
Baud
@BillinGlendaleCA: Need to clear the field.
gogol's wife
@Van Buren:
I had one Thursday. Took my mind off Trump for a couple of hours. But now he’s back.
Baud
Why do we always talk about persuading GOP voters instead of persuading people who didn’t vote?
gogol's wife
@Keith G:
All the best to you for a complete recovery.
gogol's wife
@Quinerly:
I think it bears repeated discussion!
Another Scott
@greennotGreen: Oh, you’re one of those Matthew 7 people, eh? Good to know!
;-)
Cheers,
Scott.
lamh36
Good morning POU! Too early to be up in a Saturday morning, so i’m getting back in bed. I just wanted to share the view our my window this morning! Decided Thursday night i needed a break so i booked 3 nights at at hotel off of Gulfport Beach!
Cable, wifi, rest and relaxation only one hour away!!!
BillinGlendaleCA
@Baud: Exactly, keep your eye on the Prize.
greennotGreen
@Baud: Good point, but what do we know about people who don’t vote? Without knowing why they don’t vote, how are we going to know how to go about reaching them?
JMG
@Baud: I suspect it is because we live and work in relatively politically active communities and social circles. People who don’t vote don’t talk politics. Why would they?
BillinGlendaleCA
@Baud: Well talking to GOP voters is easier than talking to Bernie voters.
Baud
@greennotGreen: Maybe we should find out.
@JMG: We’re losing in those circles.
WereBear
I talk to them, all the time. I think they are far more persuadable than GOP voters.
rikyrah
@WereBear:
Yep. He appoints a racist like Sessions for ATTORNEY GENERAL, and we are supposed to play nice.
Phuck that.
Schlemazel
@greennotGreen: sorry but NO! The problem with religion being more a part of America is whose religion? I don’t just mean Jewish v Muslim v Christian. I don’t even mean Catholic v Baptist v Lutheran v Methodist. Within any one of those large blocks are groups willing to focus on their pet bits. “Religion” can say we should stone gay men to death. “Religion” can say we must kill those who do not believe as we do. “Religion” can say we must house the poor and feed the hungry. “Religion” can say women having their period have to be removed from society. “Religion” in the public space often equates to “God believes as I do!” We need less of that.
EDIT: @SFAW: exactly
WereBear
@lamh36: Stay off news or you won’t get any rest & relaxation :)
debbie
@magurakurin:
I will know the Dems are able to make a comeback when one of them yells something offensive during Trump’s SOTU.
Kay
I think it’s tough for liberals and Democrats since all of conservatism just spent 8 solid years screeching about Obama to win elections and Trump of course ran on hate and now they’re being told there are Civility Rules.
On one level we all know that “fighting fire with fire” leaves everyone burned, or that’s the promise, but that the fact is that doesn’t seem to be true because Republicans across the board and Donald Trump in particular won big by screaming for 2 years.
It’s really a lot to ask. Half the country are asked again and again to bear the entire burden of “civility”. That’s just unfair. I personally am done trying. It’s not my job to uphold “civility” while the GOP and Donald Trump do everything they can to tear it down and benefit hugely every step of the way. I’m not the parent in this relationship. They broke it, they bought it. It’s time for consequences.
If Americans actually wanted “civility” they had it– President Obama is the national model of “civility”. Instead they screamed “you lie” at him and passed around pictures of fried chicken and watermelon.
They just elected the rudest, nastiest President ever and they’re yearning for “civility”? Bullshit. Not true. Actions mean something. I’m not holding them harmless. They CHOSE this. They got what they wanted.
Poopyman
@debbie: I’ve been wondering which of the Dems will be first to yell “You lie!” during the SOTU.
Baud
@Kay: Cosigned.
debbie
@Baud:
It should be both.
Poopyman
@Kay: Trump’s Department of Civility will be headed by Ted Nugent.
debbie
@Poopyman:
Someone better yell something. I’m hoping when Trump mentions his gratitude for some female legislator, someone shouts out, “Don’t grab her p*ssy!”
OzarkHillbilly
@greennotGreen:
But that would mean one is not a fundamentalist, Christian or other. As an atheist, I have no problem with people who’s lives are informed by their religion, who vote according to those religious precepts. It is when they try to make law based solely on those religious precepts that I object.
ETA meant to say we are in agreement, just honing the edges
debbie
@Kay:
I want your final paragraph running on a loop for the next 4 years.
WereBear
@Kay: It’s a ploy to turn our strengths against us.
We just want everyone to play fair. And I am ready for that to be enforced with some pretty extreme prejudice, ifyouknowwhatimeanandithinkyoudo.
Come on, people, who know what bullies are like. Parents like to say, “Just ignore them and they will stop” but do they? Do they ever? Not in my experience.
What makes bullies stop is scaring them back into line. Kay is right. CONSEQUENCES.
It is all they will respect. Anything else, and we look like prey to them.
Kay
Have Americans taken one action over the last 8 years that would indicate they yearn for “civility”?
They rewarded the Tea Party, they rewarded the GOP in the House and they rewarded Donald Trump. Americans don’t admire “civility”. Obviously. They admire ignorant, mean-spirited insults.
The only thing worse than treating the Republican Party like outraged toddlers who have to get their way is treating US voters like toddlers. “Civility” works two ways for grownups. No exceptions.
Schlemazel
@Keith G:
Sorry to hear you went through that, glad to know you are on the mend. I have a different issue but have to cath every day. I have talked a little about it around here & always worry about the TMI syndrome as well as the ‘is that guy whining about his health again’ effect. If you do have to self-cath daily & just want someone to discuss it with say something to one of the front pagers like AL or Betty as I believe they can see everyones email address.
Another Scott
@Baud: Because it’s more “fun”!
I’m sure we can all imagine all sorts of personal barriers to voting – not being able to take time off from work; not being able to arrange transportation; not being able to find childcare (and not being able to take multiple kids with them); etc. In many, many cases, I don’t think it’s “persuasion” – it’s too many barriers (lack of acceptable ID in too many cases, also too).
I don’t like the idea of blaming the voters – not without fixing the system first. Voting absentee, by mail, over a month, etc. And if we’re going to insist on IDs, then we must remove barriers to anyone eligible getting them (e.g. if they’ve voted many times before, are over (say) 65, and birth certificates are the issue, then waive the BC requirement) are all things that would remove barriers. National voting access standards are needed (and I know, won’t be forthcoming soon) for numbers of machines, what to do if voting is delayed more than (say) 30 minutes, etc.
It’s the responsibility of the system to make sure the rules are fair, and of the parties and the candidates to make people want to vote for them. Beating up on WWC voters, or whatever, isn’t going to fix those things. Yes, the people have the responsibility to pick sensible leaders, but it’s not their responsibility alone.
Cheers,
Scott.
gene108
@greennotGreen:
Second immigrant First Lady. John Q. Adam’s wife was foreign, though not a nude model, as far as historians know.
SFAW
@greennotGreen:
You do understand that there are the proverbial metric shit-tonne of purportedly-Christian people in America who are more than happy to (figuratively speaking, I hope) burn at the stake those who support causes different from, perhaps antithetical to what said purported Christians believe, right? Just because your “religion” — that is, your belief system and ethos — demands that you not hurt others with whom you disagree, it does not mean that there aren’t millions out there who ARE willing to do that.
SFAW
@Poopyman:
Wouldn’t they all get tired after the first five minutes, when he hasn’t said a single true thing?
greennotGreen
@Schlemazel: What? I don’t think anyone was talking about more religion in the public sphere. I, at least, was talking about what motivates people personally. Anyone trying to force their religious beliefs on the rest of society is the very opposite of what I was saying about belief tempered by humility.
Kay
@debbie:
His actions SINCE he was elected give me no indication he values “civility” or “compromise”.
His entire (proposed) cabinet so far is composed or far Right loons and racists. He hasn’t budged an inch. He was told his “blind trust” was a lie and complete bullshit so what does he do? He includes his daughter and son in law at a meeting with international leaders. It was another giant “fuck you” from the Trump Clan.
Yet half the country are supposed to bend over backward to uphold “civility” rules that only apply to one Party and most assuredly do not apply to the First Family. This won’t work. I’m not responsible for these people. I can’t control them.
SFAW
@Kay:
As Shakespeare, or someone else, said: “Fuck civility.”
NotMax
@greenNotGreen
Religion is not a requirement for having a spiritual life.
Sorry, but being accommodated isn’t anywhere near good enough, being acknowledged as having validity and being respected are. (Acceptance does not equal agreement.) Obeisance as described to “the eternal” (whatever that means) comes across as smug and patronizing. Public monuments to one selected version of the so-called commandments, for example, don’t deny others from following their consciences. Okay with those?
Demonstrate? Sure. Harass? Nay.
Matt McIrvin
@WereBear: One detail in that post is actually wrong: once the ball got rolling on gay marriage, public opinion changed much faster than old-people-dying-off can explain. But it was sort of a feedback loop–localized legal changes caused a backlash, but also public exposure for gay couples that changed minds.
Of course, it could change back. I’m wondering if we’re going to see a rapid decline in support for gay rights and also racial equality, thanks to Trumpism ripping the masks off: being a violent bigot could become OK again in the same way being gay became OK. “I thought bigots who wanted to destroy the non-white races were all terrible people, but now I know Uncle Fred is one and he seems normal and is nice to me.”
Maybe not, because really we always knew Uncle Fred was a bigot.
greennotGreen
@SFAW: Yes, I do understand that. I’m just saying that holding ones faith central to ones existence doesn’t compel that behavior.
Again, humility.
OzarkHillbilly
@WereBear:
With conservatives, it’s always about power. They need the power to make others do as they see fit. Hence their love affair with guns.
Kay
@debbie:
How weird is it that Donald Trump apparently can’t conduct a meeting without his daughter and son in law.
What’s wrong with him? Why does he need these people 15 feet away? What the fuck is going on with that? It’s bizarre behavior. The President needs babysitters? That’s comforting.
Schlemazel
@gene108:
I don’t know, I heard some pretty steamy oil painting exist . . .
JordanRules
Kay get on the front page again!
PsiFighter37
@Kay: Because deep down, he’s insecure as hell and knows he is in way, way over his head.
I honestly think he doesn’t make it through the 4 years, or either Ivanka and Jared are going to land themselves in hot water for being Cheeto whisperers.
As for the NYT reporter getting butthurt over boos at Hamilton – fuck her, seriously. She is the epitome of what is wrong with the press and more specifically with the NYT. Normalization all over the place.
Schlemazel
@greennotGreen:
It is the tempering part that fails. Not for all but for too many.
SFAW
@greennotGreen:
And I am saying that there are plenty of people out there who feel that it DOES compel behavior.
And humility is not in their top 20 list of things they value. Just because YOU do, does not mean there is anyone who does in the Trumpista camp.
And THAT IS WHY THE (implications of) FIRST AMENDMENT IS(are) IMPORTANT
Kay
@debbie:
Can someone rein Ivanka and her husband in or is that just another norm we’re abandoning to help Donald Trump pass the bar for “Presidential”? If the bar gets any lower for this family it will hit the floor.
debbie
@Kay:
He is a 70-year-old man, after all. Maybe he’s seen Ivanka in a nurse’s outfit.
debbie
@Kay:
No disrespect intended, but crises have been known to happen on the Sabbath. What will happen then?
Has there been any reporting on the request for the kids to get security clearance?
OzarkHillbilly
@Matt McIrvin:
Uncle Fred can not hide his hatefulness and it gets old fast.
SFAW
@PsiFighter37:
Does he? I agree he’s more insecure than any 10 people (combined), but he may also be delusional. I don’t mean in the quasi-hallucinatory sense; I mean in the sense of he really DOES think he’s infallible, that he’s never settled a lawsuit, that he’s actually a billionaire, etc.
I know an argument could be made either way. I’m just wondering if he’s that untethered from reality, with respect to his own abilities.
magurakurin
@SFAW: I think it was James Joyce that said “fuck civility,” or F. Scott Fitzgerald. I get those two mixed up. Goddamn Irish names…all sound alike.
WereBear
Yes. And I am somewhat sympathetic; a great many of the conservatives I’ve met had their parents outright beat them. Then tend to come from dysfunctional families, even whole cultures. And a lot of them had challenging childhoods, where they didn’t have the space to develop.
But then again, we support therapy and education and so many other tools of self-awareness and development. There isn’t a deadline. We are all supposed to keep growing and learning and maturing. It’s a lifelong obligation.
The ones who don’t suffer, which is bad enough, but they make the rest of us suffer, more.
greennotGreen
@NotMax: I’m not quite sure what you’re saying here. Yes, I do distinguish between the spiritual (internal) and the religious (external, observable,) but I was trying to simplify the discussion.
A public monument to any part of any particular religion is both inappropriate (because it could be seen as endorsing) and impractical (because if you do it for one you have to do it for all.)
Are you saying that religious people want respect? Yes, I really do not like to be denigrated as irrational because I am not an atheist (some other people who could use some humility sometimes.) And are you also saying that some groups require validation? If so, I agree that’s not the responsibility of a pluralistic society.
Kay
@PsiFighter37:
It’s not okay though. We can’t keep lowering standards to grade the Trumps on a curve. No President has experience as President before they’re elected, unless it’s a re-elect. Obama had thin experience. No one dropped the measure to the floor to allow him to pass.
I love how the duty to prop up these people has passed to the public. I refuse to play this game. When Trump acts Presidential I’ll reward him. Not before. It’s not my job to help the leader of the free world with his credibility problem.
magurakurin
@Kay:
Dementia. Reaganboogaloo II
Poopyman
@PsiFighter37:
With WHO? Seriously, who’s going to point out what’s wrong with this? The media is too busy denying any culpability, not only for his election, but for his mere celebrity. They’re not going to point out that they
fucked up.Scratch that, they don’t even think they fucked up. All is well in their tiny little heads.
WereBear
All narcissists are. That is why they job-hop, alienate family, have friends who last in terms of months (unless they have their own problems which the narcissist fills) and cause their own children to move to another state and keep their phone number secret from anyone still in contact.
I am sure Trump thought actually being President was indistinguishable from running for it. So now he’s presidentin’ the same way he campaigned; delegating, having rallies, coming up with schemes. Of course he going to appoint fellow grifters. That’s the only people who will voluntarily hang out with him.
gogol's wife
@greennotGreen:
You wrote “Yes, I really do not like to be denigrated as irrational because I am not an atheist (some other people who could use some humility sometimes.)” I’m with you on that. But good luck around here.
Ben Cisco (onboard the Defiant)
As of today, I have 54 years time served on this rock. I feel a lot older than that. Birthday present: Dad’s rehabbing well, and should be released to go home soon. I’m headed down to spend the week with my folks and my niece. No worries about Thanksgiving with Trump voters, just acknowledgement of the depths of human stupidity, and looking ahead to what’s next.
Kay
@debbie:
The “crisis” thing is a joke too. He’s installing an absolute fucking loon as a national security adviser. Flynn is a loon. Full stop.
Pretending this is normal doesn’t make it normal. The last thing we need in this country is more pretending. We’re at more risk on national security than we were under Obama. True. I can deal, but I cannot be asked to pretend this isn’t happening. If I do that that makes me nuts also. I won’t sacrifice REALITY for the Trumps. Enough. They demand too much.
SFAW
@Kay:
Be interesting to see the reaction if someone made a slip and called his son-in-law “Jared Heydrich.” Although at least Kushner isn’t going for the Endlösung yet — he’ll leave that to Bannon.
magurakurin
At this point I just go back and forth convinced every other hour that it will be either Berlusconi or Mussolini. Hoping for the former, obviously.
OzarkHillbilly
@Kay: Remember how when the Roman conqueror would return triumphant, parading before him all the slaves and loot and followed by his Legionaries, with flowers falling all around him and the cheers of tens of thousands echoing in his ears, he always had a slave riding with him in his chariot? Legend has it that the slaves purpose for being there was to whisper in his ear, “You are only a man. You are only a man. You are only a…”
Trump’s children are constantly with him for the opposite purpose.
greennotGreen
@SFAW: Ive read that Fred Trump taught his children that they were genetically superior, in which case Donald could really believe in his own infallibility…but not really or why would he care about minuscule insults, insults as small as his tiny hands.
Another Scott
Thanks to gogol’s wife‘s comment yesterday, I looked up the NCPSSM. I just joined, even though I’m over 10 years away from being eligible (assuming … – sigh).
You?
(My fourth attempt at posting this… FYWP!)
[www . ncpssm . org – FYWP doesn’t like the URL apparently.]
Cheers,
Scott.
Ohio Mom
@debbie: You are allowed to break the Sabbath to save a life — this loophole is traditionally used by Orthodox
Jews who are doctors on call.
Not that anything anyone in the incoming administration are going to be overly concerned with preserving human life. But I can see them claiming this exemption.
WereBear
Two important points from the Rude Pundit, who is taking a blogging break:
I agree. We are the suckers if we keep doing what we’ve been doing since 2000. Because look how that turned out.
gogol's wife
@Kay:
Amen. (If I’m allowed to use that word.)
Another Scott
@Another Scott: Thanks to gogol’s wife‘s comment yesterday, I looked up the NCPSSM. I just joined, even though I’m over 10 years away from being eligible (assuming … – sigh).
You?
(My 5th attempt at posting this… FYWP!)
[ FYWP doesn’t like the URL for some reason. Google will get you there.]
Cheers,
Scott.
JPL
@rikyrah: This is a link from the Post in 2006. If you are not signed on, you can go incognito
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/05/23/AR2006052301519.html
It appears that Session’s still has a problem with Lincoln.
OzarkHillbilly
@magurakurin: No, that was me. Oh wait a minute, you mean who said it first. Who knows, I’m pretty sure Genghis Khan said it but I doubt he was the first.
gogol's wife
@Another Scott:
I’m still wondering about the AARP. I cancelled my membership yesterday because of their utter inability to tell me they were going to do anything, as well as articles on HuffPo that suggested that since the last presidential election they have removed themselves from advocating for preserving social security and Medicare. But then I went to their Connecticut website, and it had some good indications that they were planning to fight Ryan. So I called that office, but everyone was out until Monday. I’ve left a message and will see. If they say the right things, I may rejoin. But I do think the NCPSSM looks good.
Tenar Arha (same Tenar, more Nameless Ones)
Debating between maybe a nice hike or going through my closet retiring clothes today, then dinner with old friend tonight.
NotMax
@greenNotGreen
Really? If it’s not a function of society, then whose is it?
Poopyman
@Ben Cisco (onboard the Defiant): I wish you many more turns around the sun for you that are happier than this year has been for you.
debbie
@Poopyman:
Seconded, and very nicely put.
gene108
@Another Scott:
But what do you do when one half of the political equation, Republicans, do not believe in a fair system, but rather will do anything to hold and maintain power, including deliberately disenfranchising voters in the world’s oldest Constitutional democracy?
There was an era, when both sides sort of agreed to what the “rules of engagement” would be and what was fair and proper and what was not.
That all changed after Bill Clinton was elected and has only gotten worse.
WereBear
@gene108: Precisely.
People are routinely killed by stalkers who spit on the piece of paper that tells them to keep their distance. And the police did nothing. It wasn’t until they started enforcing the piece of paper that things got somewhat better.
That is what we have to do, and get our complacent leaders off their asses and doing it too. I am still in shock that apparently we don’t have any Rules, we just have a bunch of gentlemanly agreements that the republicans are trampling on with no consequences.
There should be consequences. If it’s not in the Emily Post, let’s make some up right now.
Schlemazel
@gogol’s wife:
Anyone here have more info on NCPSSM? I was poking around & not finding much. It looks good but I am cynical & don’t want my meager stash squandered on grifters.
Another Scott
@gene108: When the system is unfair, one works to change the system. It’s not going to be easy, but that’s the path forward.
Letter from a Birmingham Jail:
We’ve seen things like Trump, his minions, and his proposals in the past. We can and must overcome them. If it takes peaceful civil disobedience, then that’s what we must do.
Cheers,
Scott.
NotMax
@gene108
Highly debatable. #1 – #2
ArchTeryx
@Keith G: Considering I deal with bowel incontinence on a routine basis, you have my sympathies. I don’t consider urinary incontinence TMI at all – I’d probably trade you for it!
mai naem mobile
I feel bad for Obama. I know he’s going to be okay financially,personally etc. but Jeezus we so failed this guy.
Kay
@gogol’s wife:
They’ve divorced “civility” from “decency” in a way that makes people like children. When children are small one enforces the rules of civility not because they’re just arbitrary rules with no larger lesson, but because children don’t get the larger concept at 3 or 4 or 5. The POINT of civility is decency. It’s not just meaningless rote rules people follow.
There was an AA Assistant US Attorney who testified at Session’s hearing in ’86. He recounted how Sessions would demean and insult AA’s under the guise of palling around good ol boy, or whatever Session’s excuse is. He said he doesn’t think that’s DECENT. Racism is indecent. So even if we train up Sessions to treat others civilly like a big grown up Senator he has a DECENCY problem. These two things are connected.
OGLiberal
@cmorenc: In the metro NYC area I see plenty of women on local police forces, especially in NYC. And plenty of ethnic diversity. But of the state troopers in NY, NJ and PA I’ve seen/encountered, I’ve never seen a female. Or a black person. Maybe just a couple Latinos. It’s weird….very SS-like. And this in PC, godless liberal hell country. Heck, almost 40 years ago CHiPs had a Puerto Rican and women on the force.
Another Scott
@Schlemazel: It was founded by FDR’s son.
I don’t know a lot about it, either. But it doesn’t seem to be a scam or just a grifting outfit.
HTH a little.
Cheers,
Scott.
bemused
Recommendation: On MPR online, I’m listening to a good speech by Norm Ornstein, good friend of Al Franken, in MN yesterday, “We’re beset by ‘angry populism’ and ‘partisan tribalism’. Ornstein is a scholar at AEI and has written many good opeds with Thomas Mann.
Iowa Old Lady
@debbie: According to Rachel Maddow, once Trump is inaugurated, he can give security clearances to whoever he likes. If someone knows different, please set my mind at ease by sharing.
Matt McIrvin
@PsiFighter37: Or, Ivanka is the person who continues the dynasty, once the US becomes an autocratic one-party state. Ivanka runs for President in 2024, not Pence.
Gin & Tonic
@OGLiberal: The newly-appointed chief/head of the RI State Police is a woman.
amk
@Kay: This.
gogol's wife
@Another Scott:
When I told the woman on the phone how much I’d like to contribute, she said, “Oh, ma’am, are you sure you want to give that much?” I don’t think they’d say that at AARP.
Poopyman
@Iowa Old Lady: They aren’t his to “give out”.
Inmourning
What Kay said!
Quinerly, are you still interested in a St Louis meet up?
gogol's wife
@Schlemazel:
My major misgiving is that they don’t have the visibility of AARP. But I’m not happy with the responses I’ve been getting from AARP, or with the literature they put out before the election (laying out the “plans” of the two candidates equally, no attempt to analyze their pros and cons), or with what I read on HuffPo about how they decided to retreat from advocacy after they lost members for supporting the ACA.
Another Scott
@Iowa Old Lady: I’m no expert, but I believe that people can get clearances on an as-needed basis (e.g. like non-government special negotiators can get special diplomatic passports for a particular mission they’re working on).
But even if that’s true, there’s still the “Need to Know” requirement.
Just because you have a Clearance doesn’t give you the power to look at any classified thing you want. You have to have a Need to Know and you’re just given access to the minimum amount of stuff necessary to do your particular job.
Of course, there’s always the chance that Trump’s people will try to run rough-shod over the rules and the laws, but that’s always a danger. The system will push back against that. Successfully? TBD.
HTH.
Cheers,
Scott.
ArchTeryx
@mai naem mobile: The racist ingrates in the Rust Belt – I’m looking at you, Michigan – are who failed him. So are the Obama voters that stayed home in those states. A majority of the rest of us knew the score.
Another Scott
@gogol’s wife: :-)
They do seem to be rather small (Wikipedia says 45 people in 2014 or so). But that doesn’t mean they can’t be effective (look at Nader’s Raiders, etc.). They deserve to get bigger and more powerful, based on what I’ve seen thus far.
Cheers,
Scott.
amk
Despite the loss of presidency, the dems should take heart over the election of diverse women to senate and congress and build on that.
Gin & Tonic
@Gin & Tonic: OK, I wasn’t sure on title. She is Superintendent of the RI State Police and Director of the RI Dept of Public Safety.
japa21
Received another email from Penzeys stating that the email that was posted here not once, not twice, but three times on Thursday is the most shared email they have ever sent.
It was discussed on Thursday that they are risking losing a lot of customers but still feel it necessary to fight against what has happened. It occurred to me that they are risking far more than that. They undoubtedly require many governmental licenses to operate since they are dealing with food products, shipping across state lines, etc. It would not surprise me to see them suddenly have problems renewing licenses. And with Sessions as AG and a more conservative SCOTUS, I don’t think they will have any recourse.
JMG
A not-insignificant percentage of white Obama voters thought the vote was an all-time get out of jail free card for the very idea of white racism. When of course it wasn’t, they blamed him, because it couldn’t about white people, and switched to Trump. That’s very sad, but also very human. Looking at one’s own flaws is both difficult and painful. It took deep crisis in my personal/family life to get me to do so about 10 years ago and the process lasted several years. But I’m a much happier and hopefully better person because I did.
It is possible that the four years of endless civil strife we’re headed for will cause some of those switchers to re-evaluate. I don’t think most folks want to live in such a country. I at least have to hope so.
amk
@ArchTeryx: They have been failing since 2010. A golden opportunity to turn the rich only narrative around lost.
HeidiMom
@mai naem mobile: Amen to that. I hope he takes some tiny bit of comfort in knowing that a majority of voters actually did choose the person who would have preserved his legacy.
Ryan
You’re not a fan of the next four years?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4m848bh1iY
Kay
@amk:
Public schools are trying to deal with the bad influence of the President of the United States, a man who is too cowardly to denounce his own statements.
It won’t work. Adults can’t tell children to hew to a higher standard than adults model. That doesn’t work. They’re not idiots. They know we don’t mean it or we would do it.
We just showed the the way to get ahead is to smear and demean people. We endorsed that behavior with our own- we promoted the person who behaves like that. Saying something different is meaningless.
How much coddling does Trump need? Second graders are held to higher standards? Wow. That’s a LOW bar.
leeleeFL
@bemused: I am surrounded ny Trumpians. I have let the ones who invite me in (vampire rules) exactly what I think they have wrought. Most just say they “think” or “hope” I am wrong and then talk to a fellow Trumpian. One person said he could remember all the panic about Reagan and nuclear disaster. I told him Reagan’s actual damage was to lower and middle income ppl and especially single Moms. And that I was one so I knew what I was talking about. Even the smarter ppl JUST DO NOT GET IT.
NotMax
@Kay
Please. President-elect, unless you actually mean to denounce Obama.
amk
@leeleeFL: No, they do get it, they just pretend they don’t, since it doesn’t affect them directly. At least, immediately.
debbie
@Iowa Old Lady:
God, that is just horrible.
Glidwrith
I found a local Dem club to check out today. I want to see what they are talking about: fetal curl or fight. Most of the rest of tbhe day will be processing various bits of Juicer wisdom with the ongoing goal of figuring out how we can get more people their ID docs for voter registration and the best states to target for the effort.
NotMax
@Iowa Old Lady
“So, Barron, now that you’ve read all that boring crap, what does your Magic 8-ball say?”
Enhanced Voting Techniques
Just an observation deal with the Trump in the White House, not the Trump in your head. Trump isn’t the second coming of Reagen/ Hilter/ GW Bush/ McCarthy/ Mussoline, he’s Trump and even Trump isn’t sure what means. Right now it looks Trump’s going to try to run it like a reality Tv show with things like twitter as a way to gauge the audience’s reaction, since a Reality TV show is the only thing Trump knows what to do. Oddly it strikes me Trump will at some point try something outrageously socialist merely to shock his audience and hype things up.
Brachiator
@Russ:
How much money are we talking about?
Belief is not at issue. The available evidence suggests that global warming is real. The question is what solutions might best apply to the problem.
I don’t have a religion. Soon, I may not have a country anymore.
Kay
Can you blame the Trump Family though? Once we lowered the bar to allow the FBI and a foreign government to interfere in an election with no consequences, all bets were off.
They can do whatever they want. The same institutions that failed one by one in his election aren’t going to stop him and he knows it. Either something that didn’t fail already appears or we’re on our own, at the mercy of this family.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@leeleeFL:
I lived in the SF Fransisco Bay Area at the time, had hippees for teachers and this guy is full of shit. There was that from some of the hard left but they were few and far between. Reagan was so popular in that first election it surprised me when I would run into people who voted against him. The nuclear panic came later after it came out that Reagan’s “I’ve just signed a law making the Soviet Union illegal” joke that we all, left and right, thought was such a howler, nearly started a nuclear war because the Soviets thought he was serious.
dancingva
So I had an idea that I have no idea who to talk about to. My husband is adjuncting after being unable to find college work for a couple of years. That gave me an opportunity to ponder this, so, what if instead of making college free, we made college more affordable by making them pay living wages to their teachers and cutting back on their crazy administrative costs? If parents knew how many of their kids’ teachers were on food stamps, I think they would be mad. Not to mention, the continuing of colleges to manufacture graduate degrees (and debt) with the accompanying lack of academic positions. LGM has covered the law school angle of this pretty well, but in my limited experience it’s true of the arts and sciences as well. Now that I’m putting this into words, I see that it would naturally be a state issue which is why it’s impossible, but surely, someday, with the right government in place, there could be federal guidelines with teeth about how staff are treated and how much of a college budget could go to administration. This is just one example of the one percent problem that touches a lot of lives, cause everybody wants their kids to go to college. And other than write a blog post that six people will read, I have no idea how to go further on this. All thoughts appreciated. Thanks.
Iowa Old Lady
I’m looking at this $25 million settlement in the Trump University fraud case. That’s a drop in the bucket to Trump, even if we assume he’s worth $3 billion rather than $10 billion.
frosty
@cmorenc:
IIRC, on the back of the Bear Cub Scout guide it says “God, country, family, self” and it carries the same meaning as the NC Highway Patrol’s.
bemused
@leeleeFL:
True but at least the people you cited made a teeny, tiny effort or maybe I’m giving them too much credit. : /
Brachiator
@Enhanced Voting Techniques:
Fair point. I don’t know whether Trump is Mussoline or Vaseline.
However, the country ain’t a reality tv show. And while he spends his nights gauging audience reaction and blasting his enemies, the people he put in charge will be running the country. And we know who these people are, and how vile their beliefs are.
But that would not be governing. It would be erratic behavior more like one of the insane Roman emperors than the leader of a democracy.
GxB
@Kay: I refer to them as the “presidential binky.” We’re going to have a Howard Hughes situation on our hands before long.
ETA Psifighter! “Cheeto whisperers” – gold Jerry! GOLD!
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@Enhanced Voting Techniques:
Trump will be outsourcing the job to Putin – Putin will be our president. There is already a pro-Trump rally in the Russian city of Obninsk today, with a giant sign of the two of them that says, in Russian and English, “let’s make the world great again – together”. You’d think there might be some interest in the media about that, but you’d be wrong.
Schlemazel
@leeleeFL:
Do they also tell you that we spit on returning vets? Once you slip the moorings of reality anything is true is you want it to be.
bemused
Predicting what Trump will do on any given issue is a crap shoot. Foremost, he has to feed his ego and his bank account.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@JMG
My dad had an interesting counter argument to that. It has been pointed out Obama won Iowa twice and as Obama said he did it by visiting every county in Iowa so all those racists white people could see him and talk to him and realize Obama’s a good person and not the boggie man in their mind. This time around no one from the Democrats or Republicans from the presidential candidates on down to their own representatives campaigned there. Basically Trump was a protest vote from them because the politicians are just ignoring them and they know all the politicians hate him on both sides of the isle. Of course the idiots voted their own representative back in office, because thinking is hard, but that shows you their mentality.
CarolDuhart2
I read somewhere that his father began to go senile right around the age of 70.
Perhaps the kids are there to keep people from noticing the signs, like nurses trying to keep patients from being overtired with their guests.
gogol's wife
@Enhanced Voting Techniques:
Oh, boo-hoo. The politicians have ignored us here in Connecticut forever. Why are people in Iowa so special?
Josie
@Glidwrith: Helping people with ID’s is one of the more important things to do going forward. We will not be able to overcome these laws, so we need to find a way around them. There should probably be a permanent organization in each state dedicated to that goal. People would be needed to help navigate the bureaucracy and money to pay fees for birth certificates, etc. I hope the DNC will decide to work on this.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@the Conster, la Citoyenne: Yes, just like Hilter and Stalin. /snark
Beyond Russia is about to find out how idiot American doesn’t even know foreigners exists and Trump is as dumb as they come, that’s my point, we truly don’t know what is coming up so quit assuming things on past experience and start observing what is really going on.
Schlemazel
@Brachiator:
Maybe Trump will appoint his horse to the Senate!
Not that big of a stretch, he is already appointing horses asses to very open post
Brachiator
@the Conster, la Citoyenne:
The story is covered in the Washington Post, yahoo news, etc. What presumably secret source provided you with the story?
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@gogol’s wife: They did something about it at in a voting booth – how’s that for a concept? Obama got that and Hillary basically handed those voters to Trump.
Politics isn’t nice or fair “it’s my turn” doesn’t mean shit. It’s purely about convincing people your idea is the best and it’s been that way since the Athenians lied Democracy into existence back in the day.
O. Felix Culpa
@gogol’s wife:
Me too.
Another Scott
@Enhanced Voting Techniques: My recollection is different. I remember people, including Carter, warning before the election that Reagan was going to get us into a nuclear war.
Brinkley:
FWIW.
Cheers,
Scott.
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@Brachiator:
i don’t have the WaPo. I got it from a re-tweet from a Russian twitter account, and unless Putin is discussed like emails, it’s a one day story no one cares about.
Quinerly
@Inmourning:
Sure. Will have to be after Thanksgiving, probably sometime the first week in December. After work? Any other St. Louis area peeps interested in a meet up?
trollhattan
Have we learned which Democrat has been selected to yell “You lie!” at Trump’s inaugural address before congress? Asking for a friend.
mai naem mobile
@Iowa Old Lady: he’s going to keep on charging the secret service to fly on his plane to protect his precious snowflake kids so he’ll make up the 25 million within a few months. The Secret Service has paid out $6M just during the campaign to protect his orange ass. I personally would like the always-so -concerned-about-fiscal-issues-GOPrs be made to defend this practice. Also I would like his precious snowflakes have to fly on those real basic Army Cargo planes instead of the gold jet.
trollhattan
@Josie:
Yes. There are governorships to be claimed before voting rights can be reestablished and vulnerable states should be targeted beginning last week.
Tilda Swinton's Bald Cap
@trollhattan: The Democrats should not even be present for any of this.
mai naem mobile
@trollhattan: it should be a half black half hispanice lesBian just to poss him off. Or maybe a middle aged good looking white guy would needle him more.
Mike R
@Keith G: Most excellent, congratulations.
Kay
Trump is bragging that he got away with it:
Where are his daughter and her husband? The President-elect needs his babysitters.
JMG
@Enhanced Voting Techniques: There’s something to that, but of course Clinton and Trump campaigned extensively in the state before the caucuses.
Chris
@gene108:
I’m not sure to what extent this is new and to what extent the “rules of engagement” on what’s “fair and proper” have been changing forever. You start with the Red Scare in the fifties that was blatantly a partisan hammer – and yes, the “reasonable” Republicans (including conservatives like Taft) stepped in eventually, but only after McCarthy had gotten so uncontrollable that he was a danger to his side (and only after riding the Red Scare wave into the White House). You think it’s over, but one of its biggest supporters, Nixon, ends up in the White House a few years later… partly by intentionally kneecapping U.S. foreign policy… and then tries to stay in power by extralegal means. He’s removed, but in comes Reagan a few years later and you get the same thing all over again, with the conclusion to Iran-contra basically enshrining the Nixonian concept that no, if the president does it, it’s totally not illegal. Then Gingrich’s Congress. Then Bush. Then the teabaggers. Then Trump.
And that’s only if you’re staying in the framework of contemporary movement conservatism. Without that, you can go back even further – North accomodates South for decades, South loses an election for the first time and throws a tantrum to the tune of one million dead people. Rest of the country accomodates South for decades more, to the point of essentially letting them write the history books for much of the 20th century, and gets a separatist “will rise again” narrative and an apartheid state ruled through terror for its trouble. Or the economic equivalent: robber-barons pillage the country for decades, liberals and their constituencies respond by trying to hammer out a system in which everybody, management and labor, Wall Street and Main Street, get a fair hearing (New Deal/liberal consensus era); but as soon as they see an opportunity, the rich break the treaty and redeclare war on unions.
The entire history of American politics is one of continual breaking of the “rules of engagement” by the right wing. We’ve spent two hundred years living in the Star Trek TNG Klingon Politics story arc: 1) right wing lunatic threatens to break shit if he doesn’t get his way, 2) the adults in the room placate him for the greater good, 3) right wing lunatic breaks shit anyway. Only in our world, it’s Star Trek meets Groundhog Day, because we’ve been reliving it in various forms this entire time.
Brachiator
@the Conster, la Citoyenne:
It’s one thing to claim that the media isn’t covering the story. It’s another thing to suggest that no one will care about the story.
You might think that people would wise up, and quit with the lame media bashing. The Post has done consistently good Trump related coverage. As always, the problem is that liberals are convinced that the press is corporatist, while conservatives blast the media for being liberal propaganda.
amk
@Kay: Jeez.
Glidwrith
@Josie: Well, that is sort of the point. As far as I can tell the national parties do squat for voter registration outside of the four year cycle. If anyone knows otherwise, I’d like to hear about it. For the state level parties, my general observation is they get no love from the national level except during the four year cycle and bubkis for the mid-terms.
I want to see constant ongoing voter ID acquisition and registration, year ’round. If at all possible, I would like to overlay this on the existing state-level party structure, because we don’t have the decade to build a new one if we want to make a difference at the mid-terms. Hence, my going to a local Dem club to see what they are thinking. There are at least a dozen of them in the area.
Basically, if what the party was doing was sufficient, we wouldn’t be in this mess. They obviously need help but because they need to perform all of the other functions of a political party their attention is divided. Either with them or as a separate entity, I want a dedicated group that is focussed on beating the roadblocks the ‘Thugs put in place. I need to be sure I understand how stuff works before I act so I do not inadvertantly screw up what we are trying to accomplish.
Shalimar
@Glidwrith: While what you’re proposing would be the best solution for party-building and growing the Democratic party, it isn’t the best solution for the country. We need to pass an amendment to the Constitution guaranteeing every citizen’s right to vote and turn Social Security cards into a free national photo ID for everyone. It is really the United States government that should ensure the right to vote, not a political party.
john fremont
@SFAW It might have been Mamet.
Jeffro
@magurakurin: AMEN! GO Ruben and GO Kamala!!!
Jeffro
@Baud: yes more of this definitely … Time to hit the bricks and get people registered and talk to occasional voters and pull in Independents and disaffected nonvoters
We could call it the Obama Iowa strategy 2.0
Glidwrith
@Shalimar: Um, we are so far under that there is no frigging way we are going to get a Constitutional amendment and the Thugs have a vested interest in keeping people from voting. We have two years to try to shore up our voting base with more voter suppression on the way. We do not have the time for pie-in-the-sky wishful thinking. I would LOVE to have such laws in place and it would be the ultimate goal, but we have to make use of the resources and people we have right now to hold the line as best we can. If we can’t vote, we can’t keep the shitgibbons from tearing the country apart.
I have to run now – take care folks.
Amaranthine RBG
But fuck that Sanders guy for signaling that he’d be willing to increase the minimum wage to $10.
Mike in Pasadena
Would anybody else like to read Comey’s emails? He used his official office to undermine and influence the outcome of a national election. With a little thought, I’ll bet we could come up with a plausible cause of action related to those facts. Right now the story is that he was trying to control rogue elements in the FBI. There’s probably more than that available with a review of his emails.
the wesson
@WereBear: Tit for Tat in game theory: Cooperate when the other guy cooperates. Retaliate when the other guy defects. Constant cooperators take it in the shorts – continuing to cooperate (perhaps to try to reestablish the cooperative ethos) is a way to disaster and encourages the defectors to keep defecting.
That said, I take the Trump crowd as constant “defectors” who more or less sneer at cooperation.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tit_for_tat
Mnemosyne
@Amaranthine RBG:
Fix’d. How’d Sanders’s laser-like focus on how corrupt the DNC and Hillary are work out for the rest of us?
Inmourning
Quinerly, just say a day, time and place for week after Thanksgiving.
Amaranthine RBG
@Mnemosyne:
Why should I even respond to you you pathetic sack of shit?
You constantly make up stupid shit and inpute it to others and then demand that they repudiate the screeching voices in your head.
Get some help.
Mnemosyne
@Amaranthine RBG:
Geez, even Sanders’s defenders know they can’t make excuses for his behavior anymore.
The Lodger
@Iowa Old Lady: $25 million isn’t enough to cover what the victims paid Dump U, much less make them whole. The judge ought to triple the amount.
WereBear
@the wesson: Excellent point. I tried a variation on that when I got a cooperative staffer… sadly few had even heard of it.
And they are in politics!
leeleeFL
@Schlemazel: not lately, nut I have been confronted with that and let them know it’s a myth.
tybee
@Amaranthine RBG:
fuck him for insisting that hillary wasn’t willing to go far enough but he now lays down belly up in front of trump.
brave candidate you have there. verrrrry brave.
Jeffro
@Iowa Old Lady: hey it’s $25 million less that he has now … well I mean his foundation has but you know what I mean
More importantly Donald “I never settle lawsuits” Trump just settle the lawsuit and 70 more are still outstanding
nutella
@gogol’s wife:
AARP is now owned by an insurance company and is a member of ALEC, so watch out.