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Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Chutkan laughs. Lauro sits back down.

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The rest of the comments were smacking Boebert like she was a piñata.

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You are here: Home / Climate Change / WASF, Part ∞

WASF, Part ∞

by Tom Levenson|  November 23, 201611:21 am| 224 Comments

This post is in: Climate Change, Don't Mourn, Organize, Science & Technology, All we want is life beyond the thunderdome, Bitter Despair is the New Black, Blatant Liars and the Lies They Tell, I Reject Your Reality and Substitute My Own, Wingnut Event Horizon

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If we can’t see it, it won’t happen, climate change edition:

Donald Trump is poised to eliminate all climate change research conducted by Nasa as part of a crackdown on “politicized science”, his senior adviser on issues relating to the space agency has said.

Nasa’s Earth science division is set to be stripped of funding in favor of exploration of deep space.

After all, we can’t have any of that nasty left wing bias that reality imposes:

There is overwhelming and long-established evidence that burning fossil fuels and deforestation causes the release of heat-trapping gases, therefore causing the warming experienced in recent decades.

[Trump campaign advisor Bob] Walker, however, claimed that doubt over the role of human activity in climate change “is a view shared by half the climatologists in the world. We need good science to tell us what the reality is and science could do that if politicians didn’t interfere with it.”

Walker is, as one expects from Trumpistas, simply lying. Half of the world’s climatologists do not doubt the fact of human-driven climate change, unless you include those who got their advanced degrees at the University of Exxon’s Koch School of Science.  Ostriches and sand ain’t in it.

carl_eytel_and_george_wharton_james_in_a_horse-drawn_wagon_on_the_butterfield_stage_road_in_the_colorado_desert_ca-1903_chs-2280

This is a hugely consequential move.  There are two technologies that are essential to modern climate science: large scale numerical modelling made possible by the insane advances in computing power and associated computer science over the last several decades…and remote sensing, the ability to monitor earth systems on a planetary scale.  That’s what NASA — and for the forseeable future, no one else, brings with its earth science programs.  Kill that and we not only lose data going forward, we degrade a capability in an intellectual infrastructure that will take a long time indeed to restore:

Kevin Trenberth, senior scientist at the National Center for Atmospheric Research, said as Nasa provides the scientific community with new instruments and techniques, the elimination of Earth sciences would be “a major setback if not devastating”.

“It could put us back into the ‘dark ages’ of almost the pre-satellite era,” he said. “It would be extremely short sighted.

“We live on planet Earth and there is much to discover, and it is essential to track and monitor many things from space. Information on planet Earth and its atmosphere and oceans is essential for our way of life. Space research is a luxury, Earth observations are essential.”

This is a call your representative kind of issue.  It’s going to be difficult, certainly, if Trump really does go down this path, but NASA is enough of a pork barrel, and some GOP senators, at least, are not wholly clueless on this issue, so it might be possible to avoid the worst outcome.  It’s necessary to try.  If and as I hear of organized campaigns on this, I’ll bring the news (and feel free to email me with any info you might gather.)

Feh.

PS: that laser like media focus during the campaign on issues like climate change sure was impressive, wasn’t it?

C. C. Pierce, Carl Eytel and George Wharton James in a horse-drawn wagon on the Butterfield Stage Road in the Colorado Desert, c.1903. (Eytel was a painter associated with the “smoketree school” of artists working on desert subjects; James was a journalist and photographer.)

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Reader Interactions

224Comments

  1. 1.

    schrodinger's cat

    November 23, 2016 at 11:26 am

    The Nazi comparison is apt.

  2. 2.

    SiubhanDuinne

    November 23, 2016 at 11:29 am

    And yet, the Moustache of Understanding is . . . hopeful.

    (NYT link.)

  3. 3.

    West of the Rockies (been a while)

    November 23, 2016 at 11:29 am

    I despise Republicans. I really do.

    Of course, burning hot rage ain’t gonna feed the bulldog of science funding. Let’s get active, folks, do as Mr. Levenson suggests.

  4. 4.

    SenyorDave

    November 23, 2016 at 11:30 am

    I’m pretty sure that New York City could be under ten feet of water and the lead story in the New York Times would be Clinton’s emails.

  5. 5.

    debbie

    November 23, 2016 at 11:31 am

    Except yesterday, he was moderating his stance.

    During the campaign, Mr Trump has suggested climate change was nothing more than a “hoax”, and that the so-called myth may have been started by the Chinese.

    However, in a conversation with journalists from the New York Times on Tuesday, he indicated he had rethought the matter.

    Asked if thought human activity was linked to climate change; he responded: “I think there is some connectivity. Some, something. It depends on how much.”

    This is the real danger with Trump: Who knows what he thinks and where he stands?

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/donald-trump-says-he-believes-there-is-some-connectivity-between-humans-and-climate-change-in-major-a7432671.html

  6. 6.

    smintheus

    November 23, 2016 at 11:31 am

    So…let’s ignore the planet we live on and instead go off looking for another one that seems congenial?

  7. 7.

    Ghost of Joe Liebling's Dog

    November 23, 2016 at 11:37 am

    Sincere question for Tom:

    Did your conversation with your NY Times contact ever arrive at a conclusion you’d be comfortable sharing (or did share but I missed it)?

    I have a lot of anger at Our Great Nation’s Only Media, but I’m morbidly curious, I guess.

    With kind regards,
    Dog, etc.

  8. 8.

    Poopyman

    November 23, 2016 at 11:37 am

    Geez Tom, you left out my favorite part of the quote:

    ““We see Nasa in an exploration role, in deep space research,” Walker told the Guardian. “Earth-centric science is better placed at other agencies where it is their prime mission.

    My guess is that it would be difficult to stop all ongoing Nasa programs but future programs should definitely be placed with other agencies. I believe that climate research is necessary but it has been heavily politicized, which has undermined a lot of the work that researchers have been doing. Mr Trump’s decisions will be based upon solid science, not politicized science.”

  9. 9.

    gene108

    November 23, 2016 at 11:38 am

    If there’s a need and we’re not filling it, someone else will.

    The world will get along just fine, while we isolate ourselves.

    The Russians, the ESA, the Chinese and Indians all have space programs, which maybe able to fill the gap given time.

  10. 10.

    Chris

    November 23, 2016 at 11:39 am

    @Poopyman:

    “Heavily politicized” = “the scientists obstinately refuse to come up with the conclusions we want them to.”

  11. 11.

    Poopyman

    November 23, 2016 at 11:40 am

    Also too, while NASA as a whole is good for pork barrel politics, earth science is concentrated at Goddard Space Flight Center here in liberal Maryland. In Steny Hoyer’s district, no less. Republicans will have no problems sticking it to Steny.

  12. 12.

    JPL

    November 23, 2016 at 11:41 am

    @Poopyman: Mr Trump’s decisions will be based upon solid science, not politicized science.”
    hahahahahahahahhahahha

    This morning when I read the article in The Guardian, I mentioned that we needed a WTF category. It’s going to be a long, long four years.

  13. 13.

    MomSense

    November 23, 2016 at 11:41 am

    @gene108:

    We are too stupid. Not the worst thing for the planet if humans go the way of the dinosaur.

  14. 14.

    schrodinger's cat

    November 23, 2016 at 11:42 am

    @gene108: I have been reading up on my Indian history. This is what happens when regimes/cultures start fading away. They turn inwards, reject facts, cling to religion. They are no longer bold and confident and tolerant of differences. The Mughal Empire under Aurangzeb. Marathas after Nana Phadnavis’s death are just 2 examples.

  15. 15.

    Lurking Canadian

    November 23, 2016 at 11:42 am

    Climate change is a unique problem for the Republicans, because it is the one place where they cannot create their own reality. The laws of physics don’t care how many lies you tell, or how many hats you sell, or which set of Those People you blame. Those carbon dioxide molecules are going to keep trapping heat even if you can bribe, cajole, or threaten all the reporters into pretending otherwise.

  16. 16.

    Mike J

    November 23, 2016 at 11:42 am

    If half the climatologists doubted climate change, that would be a good argument to double or triple the amount of research we’re doing, not cut it to nothing.

  17. 17.

    Tom Levenson

    November 23, 2016 at 11:43 am

    @Ghost of Joe Liebling’s Dog: Nah. I kept saying how crappy the NYT coverage was, and the person on the other side of the conversation decided I was too uncouth.

  18. 18.

    Poopyman

    November 23, 2016 at 11:43 am

    I passed the Guardian article to a couple of friends in the business. One of them responded saying he’s been in mourning for his career since the election, made worse by the fact that his particular research was starting to bear fruit.

    So yay for the anti-science folks! More egghead scalps will be collected in the days ahead.

  19. 19.

    Bill E Pilgrim

    November 23, 2016 at 11:45 am

    Nasa’s Earth science division is set to be stripped of funding in favor of exploration of deep space.

    Dateline 2023: Following on the catastrophic rise in global temperatures on Earth, the temperature of deep space has risen by ten degrees according to recent measurements, something scientists attribute to the gasbaggery of former President Trump expanding in a bubble of increasing diameter since his election.

  20. 20.

    schrodinger's cat

    November 23, 2016 at 11:45 am

    @Ghost of Joe Liebling’s Dog: And yet we pass each other NYT links like they are gospel.

  21. 21.

    Poopyman

    November 23, 2016 at 11:46 am

    @Lurking Canadian: Republicans create their own reality. And while you study it, judiciously as you will, they’ll be acting again and again.

    Or whatever the hell the Rove quote is.

  22. 22.

    Chris

    November 23, 2016 at 11:48 am

    @Lurking Canadian:

    They can’t control it, but expect them to do everything they can to turn it to their advantage.

    One of the biggest and first results of climate change is going to be an increase in mass migrations from areas affected by it. That in turn ramps up the xenophobia and plays right into the hands of politicians like Trump.

    Droughts and the like in parts of the country that don’t even know how to rely on the government any more will drive more people into the arms of churches which’ll feed them apocalyptic bullshit and tell them that the only way to save themselves is to vote against the godless liberals who brought this upon all of us.

    Etc.

    There’s sure as hell never going to be a Day After Tomorrow moment where climate change hits so fast and so brutally that the Republicans can only admit they were wrong.

  23. 23.

    Librarian

    November 23, 2016 at 11:48 am

    In addition to the Nazi comparison, another one might be the barbarians conquering Rome. Compared to the GOP, Attila the Hun was a Red Cross volunteer.

  24. 24.

    Bill E Pilgrim

    November 23, 2016 at 11:49 am

    @smintheus:

    So…let’s ignore the planet we live on and instead go off looking for another one that seems congenial?

    If Trump can build a Trump hotel there under the plastic dome, he’s good.

  25. 25.

    Poopyman

    November 23, 2016 at 11:51 am

    I just caught something on the Guardian page. The photograph with this as the caption:

    A senior Trump adviser said there is no need for Nasa to do what he has called ‘politically correct environmental monitoring’. Photograph: Massimo Rumi / Barcroft Images

    Methinks there’s some editorializing going on there. :^)

  26. 26.

    dedc79

    November 23, 2016 at 11:52 am

    There’s not going to be anything satisfying about saying “We told you so” when the sh** hits the fan (of course in some ways the sh** is already hitting the fan)

  27. 27.

    dedc79

    November 23, 2016 at 11:56 am

    It’s the Wile E Coyote school of thought – unless/until we look down, we won’t see that we’ve run off the cliff and we won’t fall.

    ETA: Spoiler alert: it doesn’t even work out well in the cartoon.

  28. 28.

    Sayne

    November 23, 2016 at 11:57 am

    @gene108:

    Not immediately, no. In terms of temporal and spectral resolution, there’s really not much of a replacement for the two NASA MODIS satellites.

    They image in 36 spectral bands and cover the entire earth once every two days. The imagery is coarse, 250-1000m pixels, but since the area imaged is so huge, the pixel size doesn’t matter too much.

    This suggestion by the Trump admin is beyond outrageous. I’m a geographer and I’m shaking I’m so angry.

  29. 29.

    Poopyman

    November 23, 2016 at 11:58 am

    OMG

    OMG stands for Ocean Melting Greenland — the name of a new NASA-funded 5-year project that will take their investigation even further, to the four corners of Greenland by ship and by plane.

    ‘’We hope that the data collected will be a game changer for studying ice-ocean interaction in Greenland,’’ says Rignot. ‘’It will help modelers make better projections of Greenland ice sheet melt in the future.’’

    Rignot’s results have been accepted for publication in the journal Geophysical Research Letters and are now available online.

    Oh well!

  30. 30.

    Persia

    November 23, 2016 at 11:59 am

    Can we frame this as a weather issue, not just climate change? Like, NASA has been tremendously helpful in letting us know where storms are going, etc. I can’t imagine this won’t have a chilling effect on that, and I feel like that’s the kind of panic-inducing rhetoric that might even get the skeptics and denialists pissed off. So, not ‘NASA is banned from researching climate change,’ ‘NASA’s banned from monitoring the weather to keep all of us safer.’

  31. 31.

    Hungry Joe

    November 23, 2016 at 11:59 am

    @MomSense: By going the way of the dinosaur, you mean that we become birds? Hmmm … I might sign on for that. Dibs on hawk!

  32. 32.

    permafrost

    November 23, 2016 at 12:00 pm

    This country is a fucking joke.

  33. 33.

    NotMax

    November 23, 2016 at 12:02 pm

    A thousand points of blight.

  34. 34.

    gene108

    November 23, 2016 at 12:02 pm

    @Bill E Pilgrim:

    I remember 10 years ago getting into arguments on-line with right-wingers, who said (1) temperatures are rising, but (2) they were due to the Sun’s activity, because (3) temperatures on Mars were also observed to be rising, and thus (4) there’s nothing we can do about it.

    When I pointed out there are no Martian weather people on Mars taking measurements, unlike those here on Earth, and if you doubt the stuff people on Earth are doing, why do you trust these imaginary Martians?

    Right-wingers will cling to any argument, no matter how weak, to keep denying global warming is real.

  35. 35.

    artem1s

    November 23, 2016 at 12:03 pm

    Two words to communicate the damage this will do to Trump voters…Hurricane tracking. This data for the most part goes straight to NOAA and is used by them to forecast weather.

  36. 36.

    WereBear

    November 23, 2016 at 12:03 pm

    Nothing will surprise me anymore.

  37. 37.

    Timurid

    November 23, 2016 at 12:03 pm

    @SiubhanDuinne:

    Have… to… normalize… faster… FASTER!

  38. 38.

    tobie

    November 23, 2016 at 12:04 pm

    The waves of truly appalling news just keep on coming… It’s hard to know how to resist such a full frontal assault on reason, well-reasoned policy, reasonable discourse and debate, reason-based arguments, etc. The fact that our press functions merely as stenographers for the new regime crushes any hope of effective resistance. I’m 53 and I’ll see countries disappear off the map, epidemics spread, minorities persecuted and democracies fall, and there’s nothing I can do. Even trying to elect a ‘reasonable’ person to my local school board will likely fail. A Democrat hasn’t been elected to a single county office since the 1990s. Dark times, indeed.

  39. 39.

    Waldo

    November 23, 2016 at 12:04 pm

    @Lurking Canadian: You’ll see Mar-a-Lago valets standing out front in waders before anyone on Team Trump admits there’s a problem.

  40. 40.

    Epicurus

    November 23, 2016 at 12:04 pm

    Trump will change his tune when Mar-a-Lago is under two feet of the Atlantic Ocean…maybe. He really does live in an alternate reality, but water lapping around the 18th hole just might get his attention.

  41. 41.

    liberal

    November 23, 2016 at 12:04 pm

    …funding in favor of exploration of deep space.

    While robotic/scientific exploration of non-near-Earth space is great and all, manned space exploration (whether near Earth or not) is a complete f*cking waste of money.

  42. 42.

    artem1s

    November 23, 2016 at 12:05 pm

    @Chris:

    One of the biggest and first results of climate change is going to be an increase in mass migrations from areas affected by it. That in turn ramps up the xenophobia and plays right into the hands of politicians like Trump.

    so expect refugees camps in NC for FL residents?

  43. 43.

    Epicurus

    November 23, 2016 at 12:06 pm

    @Waldo:

    Ha, judging by the time stamps, great minds really do think alike.

  44. 44.

    MomSense

    November 23, 2016 at 12:07 pm

    @Tom Levenson:

    So are you on TeamAdam now?

  45. 45.

    Tom Levenson

    November 23, 2016 at 12:10 pm

    @MomSense: Pretty much. The Times does bring resources to certain stories no one else has, but its self-identification as the newspaper of record has left it so vulnerable to manipulation by its sources that I basically don’t trust anything they write on politics.

  46. 46.

    Ghost of Joe Liebling's Dog

    November 23, 2016 at 12:11 pm

    @schrodinger’s cat:

    I haven’t got a solution to offer. We need functional news media and actual reporters, but when I realized I couldn’t reasonably assume the accuracy of the purported facts (or on-the-record quotes!) I was reading in the NYT, I gave up reading it.

    This did no good for anyone except insofar as it saved me time I had previously spent cross-checking some of their Professional Journalists and writing to a series of Public Editor functionaries.

    Kit Seelye (“It was just one word!”) still has a job there. HRC’s emails are still the biggest deal EVAR. Hebrews thirteen and eight.

    Not sorry I noped out of it, but that’s not a solution.

    With kind regards,
    Dog, etc.

  47. 47.

    aimai

    November 23, 2016 at 12:13 pm

    Jeesus. We are right here, like Tom, in the home of science research–MIT, Harvard, etc..etc…etc… I’m personal friends with someone who was one of Obama’s top science advisors. This just makes me want to puke. They are going to decimate science and scientists, destroy the lives of up and coming graduate students, end research projects and just shut down meaningful research. WE knew people who had to leave the country under Bush when their research was shut down. The brain drain that gave us great scientists coming from all over the world, when I was a little girl, is going to go the other way but given the lack of good language skills we can’t expect that our graduate students will find an easy time finding jobs in Europe or China.

  48. 48.

    O. Felix Culpa

    November 23, 2016 at 12:14 pm

    @Ghost of Joe Liebling’s Dog: I’ve gone with The Guardian. Not perfect, but I simply cannot support the NYT any more. Booman is also flogging the Washington Monthly. Anyone know if that publication is a worthy investment?

  49. 49.

    Poopyman

    November 23, 2016 at 12:14 pm

    @artem1s: Actually, don’t think just of humans.

    Alligators in the Potomac River! Ohhhh, never mind. It’ll be a stinking lifeless hole once the Trump Administration gets done gutting environmental protections.

  50. 50.

    schrodinger's cat

    November 23, 2016 at 12:15 pm

    @Tom Levenson: Are you saying that the NYT cannot fail, it can only be failed. Hillary is not the first the Democratic Presidential candidate they have gored and swift boated. They are and have been the fluffers of the establishment. Right now its the Republican party. I haven’t forgotten their crappy coverage of the Iraq War either.

  51. 51.

    Ghost of Joe Liebling's Dog

    November 23, 2016 at 12:16 pm

    @Tom Levenson:

    Damn. I was hoping for better.

    Thanks for giving it a shot though – and for the reply of course.

  52. 52.

    schrodinger's cat

    November 23, 2016 at 12:18 pm

    @aimai: Most graduate students in the STEM areas are damned foreigners and immigrants anyway, so no big loss right?
    /end snark.

  53. 53.

    Poopyman

    November 23, 2016 at 12:18 pm

    @O. Felix Culpa:

    I’ve gone with The Guardian. Not perfect, but I simply cannot support the NYT any more.

    I’d like to point out the blurb at the bottom of the Guardian article that Tom linked to:

    Since you’re here …

    … we have a small favour to ask. More people are reading the Guardian than ever but far fewer are paying for it. And advertising revenues across the media are falling fast. So you can see why we need to ask for your help. The Guardian’s independent, investigative journalism takes a lot of time, money and hard work to produce. But we do it because we believe our perspective matters – because it might well be your perspective, too.

    Fund our journalism and together we can keep the world informed.
    Become a Supporter

    Which is a linkie.

  54. 54.

    James Powell

    November 23, 2016 at 12:18 pm

    @SiubhanDuinne:

    Friedman is such a first class sycophant to RWers. One of many reasons I want to see the NYT go down.

  55. 55.

    The Moar You Know

    November 23, 2016 at 12:19 pm

    While robotic/scientific exploration of non-near-Earth space is great and all, manned space exploration (whether near Earth or not) is a complete f*cking waste of money.

    @liberal: Mostly agree. What the ISS is showing us is that long-term spaceflight is pretty disastrous to human beings; as the state of the art stands, sending people to Mars is just going to kill them one way or another. Sending people off to a moonbase, same thing. There are radiation issues we just don’t know how to deal with, and that may not be solvable. Humans really weren’t built to go into space.

    Unmanned spaceflight/probes have been an undisputed success, however.

  56. 56.

    Botsplainer

    November 23, 2016 at 12:21 pm

    Wonder if I can figure out a marketable skill that will enable me to emigrate to China, South Africa or Scandinavia? The stupid doesn’t seem to extend that direction.

  57. 57.

    Feathers

    November 23, 2016 at 12:21 pm

    One weird outcome I can see happening from this is this function being taken over by the Pentagon or one of the intelligence agencies, the NRO perhaps? The military is certainly taking climate change seriously. They have to be completely bullshit over this.

    Had a conversation with someone who works at the EPA a few days after the election. She was convinced there was no danger to her job, because she worked on Clean Water Act filings. Didn’t have the heart to tell her I wasn’t so sure about that. Trump would dump the entire Clean Water Act, just to spite the Dakota Access Pipeline protesters.

  58. 58.

    O. Felix Culpa

    November 23, 2016 at 12:22 pm

    @Poopyman: Yes, I responded to that request. I figured that good, or at minimum less bad, journalism is worth supporting with actual dollars.

  59. 59.

    Chris

    November 23, 2016 at 12:22 pm

    @gene108:

    Right-wingers will cling to any argument, no matter how weak, to keep denying global warming is real.

    This is also fascinating in the way it demonstrates the gateway-drug effect of conservatism, where people who joined the party for X or Y reason quickly imbibe all of their unrelated ideas. (The “I used to be a liberal but then 9/11 happened and now I’m outraged by Chappaquiddick” thing).

    I mean, there are a lot of issues that can drive you into conservative politics (abortion, 9/11, taxes, guns… “political incorrectness,” as the racists are now calling racism). But let’s face it, no one goes into into because they feel very strongly that climate change isn’t happening. It’s a complete non-issue… except as a marker to separate liberals from conservatives, with the latter obediently towing the line because if their party says it, it must be true.

    I think the process goes “conservatives absorb a position by osmosis without much thinking about it, but liberals disagree, and conservatives shriek that liberals are attacking our freedoms and the baby Jesus by disagreeing, and pointyheaded scientists armed with unglamorous ‘facts’ will point out that liberals do, in fact, have some grounds for disagreeing, and then conservatives will say that this just shows how deeply rooted the liberal conspiracy goes…” and before you know it, an issue they’d never heard about, never cared about, and don’t understand the first thing about has become their newest hill to die on.

  60. 60.

    Botsplainer

    November 23, 2016 at 12:22 pm

    I’ve been trying to download an editing suite from Adobe about the last 35 minutes. Is this stuff as bloated as I suspect?

  61. 61.

    rikyrah

    November 23, 2016 at 12:23 pm

    

    The New York TimesVerified account
    ‏@nytimes
    Hillary Clinton’s popular vote lead surpassed 2 million overnight

  62. 62.

    rikyrah

    November 23, 2016 at 12:23 pm

    
    NYT PoliticsVerified account
    ‏@nytpolitics
    Obama is the first president in a half century to leave office with a smaller federal prison population.

  63. 63.

    hovercraft

    November 23, 2016 at 12:23 pm

    PS: that laser like media focus during the campaign on issues like climate change sure was impressive, wasn’t it?

    The same media that failed to ask a single question about climate change during the debates? Yes they are true guardians of the planet. I will call, but as a Jersey girl, my representatives are believers in science, still constituent calls may get them to speak up louder and more vociferously. Sandy’s floodwaters stopped less than a 100 feet from my front door, and left a tree across my front steps, so this is personal.

  64. 64.

    rikyrah

    November 23, 2016 at 12:24 pm

    meta
    ‏@metaquest meta Retweeted West Wing Reports
    Precisely what President Obama warned about repeatedly. United States of America has surrendered trade in fastest growing region to China.

  65. 65.

    SatanicPanic

    November 23, 2016 at 12:25 pm

    Well at least California will still be working on this. Maybe some tech company can think of a clever way to fill the gap in knowledge. Or maybe we’re screwed, who knows.

  66. 66.

    rikyrah

    November 23, 2016 at 12:25 pm

    Reuters WorldVerified account
    ‏@ReutersWorld
    A new peace accord between Colombia’s government and FARC rebels will be signed on Thursday:

  67. 67.

    Poopyman

    November 23, 2016 at 12:26 pm

    @O. Felix Culpa: I can’t from the work computer, but will tonight. Just wanted to put it out here for folks who didn’t go to the site.

  68. 68.

    hovercraft

    November 23, 2016 at 12:26 pm

    @rikyrah:
    This will be largest popular vote win while losing the EC in history, it’s projected to be 2.4 million. But hey she didn’t inspire people to turn out, while the Shitgibbon did, right?

  69. 69.

    Ghost of Joe Liebling's Dog

    November 23, 2016 at 12:27 pm

    @O. Felix Culpa:

    I read less news than I did 20 years ago. When I do, it’s often The Guardian, or BBC, or a big German daily (whose name has naturally done a Houdini now that I want to mention it) …

    I read more here, tbh. In years past I read newspapers and looked to blogs for different views of (what I took to be) the facts. But I don’t trust the news to give me facts anymore – the Times is a good example of the problem, but of course it’s not alone.

    No real idea how to remedy this.

    With kind regards,
    Dog, etc.

    ETA: a missing word

  70. 70.

    rikyrah

    November 23, 2016 at 12:27 pm

    Jason Easley
    ‏@PoliticusJason
    As President, Trump Plans To Raise Taxes On 26 Million Low Income Americans

  71. 71.

    Barry

    November 23, 2016 at 12:28 pm

    Conbined with Brexit, we are facing the loss of primacy of the scientific Anglosphere.

  72. 72.

    Schlemazel

    November 23, 2016 at 12:28 pm

    @debbie:
    He thinks nothing & stands nowhere. He will, however, appoint assholes like those cited above to positions where they can use their ignorance and malice for the maximum damage. If I didn’t have grand kids I would be supporting them so as to bring the end as soon as possible, it is not like they haven’t earned it.

  73. 73.

    Poopyman

    November 23, 2016 at 12:28 pm

    @Chris: The “conservative” cohort aligns pretty well with the Authoritarian cohort. A hive mind is necessary for acceptance.

  74. 74.

    Poopyman

    November 23, 2016 at 12:29 pm

    @Botsplainer: Yes.

  75. 75.

    rikyrah

    November 23, 2016 at 12:30 pm

    Kristen Zimmer @kristen_zimmer
    Call the Department of Justice at 202-353-1555. Redial until you get through. Demand that they #AuditTheVote
    #AuditTheElection

  76. 76.

    Schlemazel

    November 23, 2016 at 12:31 pm

    @Poopyman:
    A) politicize the science
    B) claim that the science is politicized & therefore must be ignoreed
    C) profit?

  77. 77.

    O. Felix Culpa

    November 23, 2016 at 12:31 pm

    @Ghost of Joe Liebling’s Dog:

    or a big German daily

    Let me know which one it is, once your memory is restored. :) I used to read the FAZ, but have allowed my German skills to lapse. Given the state of our homegrown media, it might be wise to go to foreign sources for information.

    P.S. I also read less news now. I’m trying to keep up on the local level, though, as the first point of engagement.

  78. 78.

    rikyrah

    November 23, 2016 at 12:32 pm

    8-year-old hospitalized after beating by white bullies who told his sister ‘go back to the cotton farm’

    An 8-year-old African American boy was hospitalized after bullies attacked him and his younger sister on November 14, the Atlanta Black Star reports. The incident occurred at the Spanish Lake Primary School in Geismar, Louisiana. Now, the family is seeking help with medical expenses.

    Jordan Jackson was defending his 4-year-old sister from a group of older children — all of whom were white, and one of whom was 13 — who were throwing mulch at them. The two Jacksons appear to be victims of a racially-motivated attack.

    When Jordan asked the kids to stop, one of the kids told him, “You need to go back to the cotton farm.” He was then pushed to the ground and body slammed.

    Jordan was hospitalized with a broken arm and a concussion that later led to “post-concussion syndrome,” which includes symptoms such as dizziness, headaches, and insomnia, among others.

  79. 79.

    Lizzy L

    November 23, 2016 at 12:32 pm

    @O. Felix Culpa: I am also considering sending funds to Washington Monthly. I have a subscription to The Washington Post. I am a member of TPM Prime because I think Josh Marshall is doing outstanding work. I read The NYT but refuse to subscribe. I also read The Guardian.

  80. 80.

    hovercraft

    November 23, 2016 at 12:33 pm

    @debbie:

    This is the real danger with Trump: Who knows what he thinks and where he stands?

    FOX News’s Shepard Smith made this point yesterday, no one knows what the Shitgibbons positions are, because depending on the audience at any given time, it hold all of them Katie. These are a combination of trial balloons by some of it’s supporters and the Shitgibbon wanting to please the audience it’s talking to at that moment. Right now it’s all theoretical, but we need to shoot down the stupid, dangerous stuff like this, but we will have to wait till January to see how much of this is real, and how much just hot air that will be quashed by reality. I’m thinking the Pentagon might have an opinion about the Shitgibbon scraping research in an area that they consider to be one of the greatest threats to our nation security.

  81. 81.

    Starfish

    November 23, 2016 at 12:34 pm

    @gene108: Why no love of JAXA?

  82. 82.

    O. Felix Culpa

    November 23, 2016 at 12:34 pm

    @rikyrah: Aargh.

  83. 83.

    CaseyL

    November 23, 2016 at 12:34 pm

    Hard to see how NASA can “slow-walk” this one, if the funding disappears. It’s a pretty cunning move on the deniers’ part. Even though the military and the insurance industry “take GCC seriously,” they need data to formulate policies and responses. Without the data NASA collects, they can’t plan very well. So it won’t matter if some sectors of gov’t and private sector want to work on this despite Trump saying “No”; they won’t have any data to work with.

  84. 84.

    frosty

    November 23, 2016 at 12:37 pm

    @O. Felix Culpa: I subscribed to WaMo in the 70s back when Fallows was getting his start there. It was good then and it’s good now. Worth the bucks.

  85. 85.

    rikyrah

    November 23, 2016 at 12:38 pm

    just a phone call

    Cornelia @PaladinCornelia
    We need to #AuditTheVote
    Some numbers to try:
    202-353-1555 (often busy)
    202-514-2000 option 4

    A suggested script is below.
    9:53 AM – 23 Nov 2016

  86. 86.

    hovercraft

    November 23, 2016 at 12:41 pm

    @artem1s:

    Two words to communicate the damage this will do to Trump voters…Hurricane tracking. This data for the most part goes straight to NOAA and is used by them to forecast weather.

    I’m also thinking tornado watch. That’s a problem coastal ‘elites’ don’t have to worry about, oh wait, for some strange reason we’ve had a few tornado watches here in Jersey the last few years. I wonder what’s changed to make that a thing, it used to be we had to worry about hurricanes and blizzards, now we have tornados, vortexes, derechos and I’m sure there will be more new phenomena for me to learn about in the next few years.

  87. 87.

    Major Major Major Major

    November 23, 2016 at 12:41 pm

    @CaseyL: It’s very “we don’t believe that guns can do anything bad so let’s outlaw studying guns.”

  88. 88.

    dance around in your bones

    November 23, 2016 at 12:42 pm

    I used to like watching that Earth Without People tv show and marvel at how quickly plant and animal life would take over our abandoned buildings. So green and prolific!
    Now I can’t even daydream about that. Thanks, Chief Embarrassment Object.

    eta: Life Without Humans (oops)

  89. 89.

    Jonny Scrum-half

    November 23, 2016 at 12:42 pm

    @debbie: I’m wondering if Trump is going to be essentially irrelevant to what happens during his administration, with him operating as mostly a decoy for the media to focus on, while everyone ignores what’s really going on.

  90. 90.

    Poopyman

    November 23, 2016 at 12:43 pm

    @Schlemazel:

    C) profit?

    Nah. Cleek’s Law.

  91. 91.

    O. Felix Culpa

    November 23, 2016 at 12:44 pm

    @Jonny Scrum-half:

    I’m wondering if Trump is going to be essentially irrelevant to what happens during his administration, with him operating as mostly a decoy for the media to focus on, while everyone ignores what’s really going on.

    Yes, I’ve wondered that too. He’s the shiny object (aka puppet), while Bannon – and Ivanka? Kushner? – pull the strings behind the scenes.

  92. 92.

    Chris

    November 23, 2016 at 12:46 pm

    @CaseyL:

    Which is basically what they’re already doing with gun data, I believe.

    @Jonny Scrum-half:

    That would be consistent with Republican SOP. Reagan and Dubya both worked on this model, amiable dunces who were there to put a smiling public face on the whole operation, while their cabinets and the people they were connected to did all the real work behind their backs.

    That’s every bit as terrifying as the prospect of Trump deciding everything would be.

  93. 93.

    EBT

    November 23, 2016 at 12:50 pm

    @debbie: The real danger is he could be as senile as Reagan.

  94. 94.

    rikyrah

    November 23, 2016 at 12:51 pm

    Lisa BloomVerified account
    ‏@LisaBloom
    Paul Ryan’s doing a survey in hopes of killing Obamacare. Tell him you support it. Here’s how.

  95. 95.

    hovercraft

    November 23, 2016 at 12:51 pm

    @O. Felix Culpa:
    I like Nancy LeTourneau , and obviously Booman is there, I know a lot of people here aren’t fans of his comments section, but apart from reading their politics blog, Political Animal Blog, I don’t really read the magazine.

  96. 96.

    debbie

    November 23, 2016 at 12:52 pm

    @O. Felix Culpa:

    I cannot imagine Trump letting anyone take over his role as, as Omarosa put it, the most powerful man in the Universe. It’s just not in his DNA.

  97. 97.

    mai naem mobile

    November 23, 2016 at 12:52 pm

    NPR had a story about the increase of rats due to climate change with milder winters. They procreate more in milder wintera.I hope Trump Tower and the DC hotel has a massive rat problem.Hell I wouldn’t mind if they had some contagious diseases. Bit of trivia – Stalin was killed with rat poison. U guess it’s a blood thinner.

  98. 98.

    Major Major Major Major

    November 23, 2016 at 12:54 pm

    @EBT: Re: this theory–is there any evidence he wasn’t always like this?

  99. 99.

    hovercraft

    November 23, 2016 at 12:54 pm

    @Ghost of Joe Liebling’s Dog:

    a big German daily (whose name has naturally done a Houdini now that I want to mention it)

    Der Spiegel ?

  100. 100.

    Chris

    November 23, 2016 at 12:54 pm

    @mai naem mobile:

    Yep. That’s how climate change happens. Death by a thousand cuts.

  101. 101.

    rikyrah

    November 23, 2016 at 12:54 pm

    DA PHUQ?

    Trump’s Son Held Talks on Russia
    November 23, 2016

    Donald Trump’s eldest son, emerging as a potential envoy for the president-elect, held private discussions with diplomats, businessmen and politicians in Paris last month that focused in part on finding a way to cooperate with Russia to end the war in Syria,” the Wall Street Journal reports.

    The disclosure of a meeting between the younger Mr. Trump and pro-Russia figures—even if not Russian government officials—poses new questions about contacts between the president-elect, his family and foreign powers. It is also likely to heighten focus on the elder Mr. Trump’s stated desire to cooperate with the Kremlin once in office.

  102. 102.

    debbie

    November 23, 2016 at 12:57 pm

    @rikyrah:

    I just watched him give the MOH to Ellen DeGeneres. A man who gives pat-pats when he hugs is a treasure!

  103. 103.

    D58826

    November 23, 2016 at 12:57 pm

    @artem1s: Syria may be a case in point. I’ve read in a couple of places that a severe drought (whither global warming related or not) caused crop failures that forced much of the rural population to move to the cities looking for non-existent jobs. This in turn led Assad to cut back on food subsidies. Then………………………………

  104. 104.

    hovercraft

    November 23, 2016 at 12:57 pm

    @rikyrah:

    Jordan was hospitalized with a broken arm and a concussion that later led to “post-concussion syndrome,” which includes symptoms such as dizziness, headaches, and insomnia, among others.

    4 years of this shit, is so scary. I wish I could just bury my head in the sand.

  105. 105.

    Brachiator

    November 23, 2016 at 12:58 pm

    @Lurking Canadian:

    Climate change is a unique problem for the Republicans, because it is the one place where they cannot create their own reality. The laws of physics don’t care how many lies you tell, or how many hats you sell, or which set of Those People you blame.

    Didn’t a former Canadian leader, Harper, similarly downgrade climate change research? What has happened since his term?

    In any event, conservative climate change deniers always claim that any variation is simply due to a cyclical pattern, and equilibrium is always restored. On top of this, they simply assert that the Earth’s climate is too complex to understand, so nothing should or can be done.

    The religious have the ultimate fallback. Nothing that humans do can have any long term impact on the Deity’s creation. End of discussion.

  106. 106.

    D58826

    November 23, 2016 at 12:58 pm

    @rikyrah: Isn’t there a law against free-lancing foreign policy – Sullivan act?

  107. 107.

    PPCLI

    November 23, 2016 at 1:00 pm

    Get ready for the next four years at least. Trump says some vague noncommittal things about climate change maybe not being entirely a hoax, to the NYT. They have a collective orgasm about his “evolution” and “reasonableness”. Meanwhile, the Trump administration bans all study of climate science on the grounds that any research giving conclusions they don’t want to hear is “politicized”. This does not phase the NYT at all. “Evolution of Trump” stories will continue apace.

  108. 108.

    O. Felix Culpa

    November 23, 2016 at 1:05 pm

    @rikyrah: Ok, is it possible to do just one huge primal AAAARRGH and get it over with? W is starting to look like a genius saint in comparison. Words I never expected to utter.

  109. 109.

    D58826

    November 23, 2016 at 1:05 pm

    @CaseyL: They have been doing this for years. Two examples I can think of
    1. Newt eliminated the Congressional office of technology when he was speaker.
    2. ban on gun violence research.

    I’m not sure if this passed but at one point they wanted to eliminate the census long form that asks all of t he questions about household income, indoor plumbing, etc. The information from that questionnaire is used by both the public and private
    sector.

    But if you have no information that the problem ‘goes away’.

  110. 110.

    schrodinger's cat

    November 23, 2016 at 1:05 pm

    @PPCLI: Why are you still reading NYT and giving them clicks? Boycott NYT.

  111. 111.

    Major Major Major Major

    November 23, 2016 at 1:08 pm

    @PPCLI: Yep, four years (at least) of this. They’ll be more of a lapdog than they were for W. Hopefully only a few hundred thousand people will die this time as a result.

  112. 112.

    Regnad Kcin

    November 23, 2016 at 1:09 pm

    @hovercraft: Ha! If you can’t stand FAZ, then try morgenpost.de or sz.de

  113. 113.

    Captain C

    November 23, 2016 at 1:11 pm

    @SenyorDave:

    I’m pretty sure that New York City could be under ten feet of water and the lead story in the New York Times would be Clinton’s emails.

    But there would be cutesy stories in the LifeStyles section about the various artisanal boats that the Times reporters’ neighbors were using to get to and from their brownstones.

  114. 114.

    JMG

    November 23, 2016 at 1:12 pm

    By 2019, the markets and the rest of the world will treat US government statistics the same way they treat Chinese government statistics. They’ll be ignored, ridiculed, or both.

  115. 115.

    Major Major Major Major

    November 23, 2016 at 1:15 pm

    @JMG: Especially if the “Obama was making up employment numbers!!” folks end up in charge. The BLS will get trashed & replaced with a propaganda organ.

  116. 116.

    JPL

    November 23, 2016 at 1:15 pm

    Betsy Devos for education. Vouchers not only for health care, but for schools

    Michigan philanthropist Betsy DeVos is less well known outside her home state. She has chaired the Michigan Republican party and played a key role in some major education policy decisions there in recent years. But unlike Rhee and charter-school leader Eva Moskowitz, another person Trump considered for the education secretary position, DeVos has kept a low national profile. She has neither worked in public education nor chosen public schools for her own children, who attended private Christian schools.

    http://www.chalkbeat.org/posts/us/2016/11/22/what-a-betsy-devos-appointment-would-tell-us-about-donald-trumps-education-plans/

  117. 117.

    sherparick

    November 23, 2016 at 1:15 pm

    @schrodinger’s cat: There Times political writers and editors have been fans of Republicans skills at ratfucking and suckering the boobs with culture war issues since Reagan and they were on a 25 year snipe hunt after the Clintons (e-mails, e-mails, Clinton Foundation). No news source was more important in building up Hillary’s unfavorables and giving credibility to Republican lies that created the portrait of “Crooked Hillary.” So we now live with the result.

  118. 118.

    D58826

    November 23, 2016 at 1:18 pm

    WAPO reporting that Betsy DeVos has been selected for Sec. of ED. She wants to privatize public schools

    hey history buffs – question. We have Sec of Defense, state, eduction (almost misspelled that as ‘seduction’ but with Trump it may come to pass), etc but an attorney general at DOJ. How did that name come about? I know we have a surgeon general (which would seem like a better fit for Carson) but I think he also holds a military rank so it makes some sense

  119. 119.

    Это курам на смех

    November 23, 2016 at 1:18 pm

    I work for the research wing of the U.S. Forest Service. Studying the Chinese hoax has become a major part of our work. We know that climate change will lead to very significant changes in our environment. Rising temperatures will bring about different precipitation regimes and major challenges to our supply of fresh water. Our models tell us that the Rocky Mountain states will dry up, with much-reduced snowpack and runoff. They also indicate that the Pacific Northwest and northern Sierra Nevada will get wetter, but with less precipitation in the the form of snow, which means much lower streamflows through the summer months. We will also see a lot more severe forest fires. There will be major impacts to agriculture, fisheries, urban water supplies, and other resources the nation depends on. We study climate change to give policymakers an opportunity to consider what is coming and to take steps to mitigate these effects.

    Is our budget also on the chopping block? Probably. WASF.

  120. 120.

    Captain C

    November 23, 2016 at 1:19 pm

    @Chris:

    There’s sure as hell never going to be a Day After Tomorrow moment where climate change hits so fast and so brutally that the Republicans can only admit they were wrong.

    At some point, though, even Uday, Qusay, and Lolita will have to admit that their inherited Miami properties are underwater. Or not.

  121. 121.

    Major Major Major Major

    November 23, 2016 at 1:19 pm

    Ten Ways To Tell if Your President is a Dictator

    1) Systematic efforts to intimidate the media…
    2) Building an official pro-Trump media network…
    3) Politicizing the civil service, military, National Guard, or the domestic security agencies…
    4) Using government surveillance against domestic political opponents…
    5) Using state power to reward corporate backers and punish opponents…
    6) Stacking the Supreme Court…
    7) Enforcing the law for only one side…
    8) Really rigging the system…
    9) Fearmongering…
    10) Demonizing the opposition.

  122. 122.

    Captain C

    November 23, 2016 at 1:22 pm

    @Epicurus: Given his age and apparent lack of physical fitness, he may not be around to see that.

  123. 123.

    Major Major Major Major

    November 23, 2016 at 1:22 pm

    @Captain C:

    Uday, Qusay, and Lolita

    Lucrezia, please.

  124. 124.

    D58826

    November 23, 2016 at 1:22 pm

    @Это курам на смех: Now who are you gonna believe der Fuhrur or all those charred trees.

    Saw a tweet the other day that der Fuhrer went after Smokey the bear.
    I can see one growth industry – tv comics (until the 1st amendment is fixed to prevent der Fugrer’s fee fees from being hurt

  125. 125.

    D58826

    November 23, 2016 at 1:27 pm

    @JPL: De Vos family make frequent appearances in Jane Mayer’s ‘Dark Money’. All part of the Kochoctopus.

    I’m sure the interests of the WWC are near and dear to their hearts. After all once all of thew illegal gardeners, farm laborers, and maids are deported the WWC will be more than happy to fill those jobs.

  126. 126.

    CaseyL

    November 23, 2016 at 1:29 pm

    And Chuck Schumer has already said he can work with these people?

    I called Patty Murray’s office earlier this week. The person who answered said they knew nothing of any plans she had to oppose Trump. I called Maria Cantwell’s office. The person who answered said he knew nothing about anything. I have told them that the Dems need to have a strategy ready to roll on Inauguration Day, when the new session starts. The best they were able to come up with is “We share your concerns.”

    I really can’t come up with anything more than: Down the shitter we go.

  127. 127.

    hovercraft

    November 23, 2016 at 1:29 pm

    @JPL:
    @D58826:
    via GOS

    Georgia Rep. Tom Price is under consideration to be secretary of Health and Human Services, which would put him in position to do major damage to gay and transgender Americans whose health needs were sidelined for decades by an agency that refused to see them. Dana Liebelson writes:

    Over the years, Price co-sponsored a constitutional amendment banning same-sex marriage. He voted against a bill that banned employers from discriminating against gay people and a bill that fought anti-gay hate crimes. He called the Obama administration’s guidelines allowing transgender students to use the bathrooms that correspond with their gender identity, “absurd.”

    Price went out of his way to back Kelvin Cochran, an Atlanta fire chief who was terminated in January 2015 after employees received copies of his self-published book, which equated homosexuality with pedophilia and bestiality. The city’s mayor claimed Cochran was fired for his “judgment and management.” But Price, along with five other Georgia lawmakers, signed onto a letter asking the mayor to reinstate him. (Cochran filed a lawsuit claiming that he was discriminated against because of his faith.)

    Price also appeared on a conference call in 2013 with Rabbi Noson Leiter, who once suggested that Hurricane Sandy was divine punishment for gay marriage. Leiter asked the congressman whether he thought it prudent to consider the medical and economic impacts of legislation that promotes a “homosexual agenda.”

    Price said he agreed. “The consequences of activity that has been seen as outside the norm are real and must be explored completely,” he added.

    The hits just keep coming, there are so many of them, and they are all so terrible.

  128. 128.

    Bobby D

    November 23, 2016 at 1:29 pm

    Bad week/month, getting worse. I feel like moaning, and ya’ll are a caring bunch…
    I’ve related that I work for DoD in the environmental protection field. Well, I work at a military base that also has a NASA mission, and I know quite a few NASA earth science folks. My friends are likely to lose their jobs, and be forced to take either downgrades, move into a job they do not want or have experience in, or leave the civil service. It’s not like there is any other economy here, a military base, a prison, some wine country tourism, and agriculture.

    Found out I’m being transferred from the best weather in the US (calif coast), to some of the worst (calif desert). And the money I’d saved for a downpayment anticipating this transfer? Yeah, that downpayment is getting ripped away by my own father, who has successfully sued to force me to buy out his share of our family property (been in the family for many generations). Thanks Dad, extorting me for $50k, deadbeat a-hole.

    So in the same month, I’ve seen my entire life’s work in environmental protection about to be reversed as soon as Trump takes his throne. My ability to buy a home taken away, and my job relocated to a shithole inferno, and now have a tenant renting my actual home house 400 miles away but who hasn’t paid me rent in two months and won’t reply to text, voicemail, or email.

    Whaaa, whaaaa, whaa. Yes, I am a WATB. I am taking this way harder than I expected. I’m a pretty stoic, grit your teeth and get through it type, but I’ve been absolutely reeling since election night and every time I start to normalize a little, new shitburgers like the NASA funding are served up. Losing. My. Mind.

  129. 129.

    JMG

    November 23, 2016 at 1:31 pm

    The Secretary of Education can do harm, but he/she cannot privatize public schools. Those are under state/local control. This is a patronage hire, not unknown for Cabinet secretaries of all administrations.
    When if comes to climate change, you’d think a man who owns extensive beachfront properties would be acutely interested in the subject. Perhaps if Mar-a-Lago goes under six inches of water, he’ll change his tune.

  130. 130.

    Major Major Major Major

    November 23, 2016 at 1:33 pm

    @Bobby D: Holy shit, that’s awful. Hang in there, when I get completely overwhelmed like that I go spar with people. Maybe your preferred therapy involves less punching, but wow, take care of yourself.

  131. 131.

    hovercraft

    November 23, 2016 at 1:34 pm

    @Major Major Major Major:
    Lolita sounds too benign, she is part of the evil empire, in fact her and her loathsome husband are architects of this monstrosity, so yes Lucrezia, please.

  132. 132.

    D58826

    November 23, 2016 at 1:36 pm

    from WAPO

    For Donald Trump, little is more intoxicating and affirming of his own power than creating tornadoes and watching them tear across the landscape. Welcome to Trump’s world, a never-ending drama in which the star lives in the moment and careens from controversy to controversy with a dizzying flood of tweets and seemingly off-the-cuff remarks to the media.

    Just imagine him in the WH in 1941. We would all be speaking German or maybe Russian. Or in Oct. 1962. We would not be speaking anything.

    It might work on the Apprentice but not in the world that everyone else lives in.

    http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/welcome-to-washington%E2%80%99s-new-normal-one-trump-drama-after-another/ar-AAkDkIy?li=BBmkt5R&ocid=spartandhp

  133. 133.

    Major Major Major Major

    November 23, 2016 at 1:40 pm

    @D58826: If only we had paid more attention to [my pet issue], this never would have happened!

  134. 134.

    D58826

    November 23, 2016 at 1:43 pm

    @Major Major Major Major: We didn’t push Baud’s candidacy hard enough but I guess all of those illegal voters on Pitcairn Island probably doomed him any way.

  135. 135.

    tobie

    November 23, 2016 at 1:43 pm

    @rikyrah: And we still think that when Trump talked about the election being rigged he wasn’t telling the truth? A month ago was before the election. That’s some confidence to engage in talks with Russia BEFORE the election.

  136. 136.

    liberal

    November 23, 2016 at 1:43 pm

    @D58826:

    Newt eliminated the Congressional office of technology when he was speaker.

    The full name was the Office of Technology Assessment. Did good work.

  137. 137.

    Major Major Major Major

    November 23, 2016 at 1:44 pm

    @D58826: Baud! never stood a chance after the DNC cleared the way for Bernie.

  138. 138.

    hovercraft

    November 23, 2016 at 1:46 pm

    @Bobby D:
    I’m so sorry to hear about your situation. When it rains, it really pours. Take a deep breath, at least ( I hope) you have your health and other family. Just take care of yourself for now, do what you have to do to get through this right now, and then start a new plan, it sucks, but that’s life. Right now we are all feeling down, so all of our problems seem even worse than they are. Step back and know that you are not alone, we all feel like shit, and many of us are overwhelmed right now. But it’s got to get better, we can’t spend the next four years feeling like this. So see you’re not a WATB, you are just one of us, angry, bitter and afraid. Together we’ll get through it. ;-)

  139. 139.

    Ghost of Joe Liebling's Dog

    November 23, 2016 at 1:47 pm

    @Bobby D: sympathy, and +1 for Major^4’s suggestion – it clears the mind, at least.

    With kind regards,
    Dog, etc.

  140. 140.

    liberal

    November 23, 2016 at 1:48 pm

    @The Moar You Know: Beyond all that, there’s really not much point.

    Antarctica is much, much more habitable than Mars, say.

    I read as much science fiction as the next guy (can’t deal with reading work stuff or politics stuff when I relax before bed, so it’s almost invariably science fiction), but manned space exploration has no useful end, not until the economics of getting out of gravity wells changes by at least one order of magnitude, maybe two.

    Yeah, about radiation…last I heard, you’d be cooked like a chicken in a microwave if you travelled to mars. You could always put tons of shielding on the ship, but then that’s more mass to push.

  141. 141.

    liberal

    November 23, 2016 at 1:50 pm

    @Major Major Major Major:

    The BLS will get trashed & replaced with a propaganda organ.

    Not sure I believe that.

    The business class really runs this country, and they do like accurate stats on the economy.

  142. 142.

    Chris

    November 23, 2016 at 1:50 pm

    @Bobby D:

    If being afraid of having a fascist elected to run your country makes you a WATB, especially when it affects your job, I think I need to own that label proudly.

  143. 143.

    D58826

    November 23, 2016 at 1:52 pm

    one more thing to worry about :-)

    Fun fact: If you’re in a pinch and need a microphone, a spare pair of headphones can do the job. Not so fun fact? A group of researchers at Israel’s Ben Gurion University just figured out that those headphones can be hijacked to spy on you. Yeah — 2016 is scary.

    http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/technology/hijacked-headphones-could-be-used-to-listen-in-on-your-life/ar-AAkFTnW?li=AA4Zoy&ocid=spartandhp

  144. 144.

    EBT

    November 23, 2016 at 1:54 pm

    @D58826: If you have a cellular phone you should already be operating under the idea it is surreptitiously listening at all times.

  145. 145.

    stinger

    November 23, 2016 at 1:54 pm

    @Chris:

    One of the biggest and first results of climate change is going to be an increase in mass migrations from areas affected by it.

    Obama needs to sit down with his new buddy and tell him this, in very simple words. Over and over. Until The Donald thinks he came up with it himself. Then maybe his hatred of immigrants will at least cause him to fund climate research and alternative energies.

  146. 146.

    liberal

    November 23, 2016 at 1:54 pm

    @Bobby D: I nearly fell back into depression after the election, and my job is in the private sector (though I did work at NIH for many many years as a contractor…decision to leave a few years ago is looking better every day).

    While my wife is a government attorney, and we’re thus somewhat vulnerable, we’re not that vulnerable, and yet it still threw me for a fucking loop.

    (Yes, yes, I criticize Hillary and all you other neoliberal sellouts, but I voted for her in my very blue state, and gave two Dem Senate candidates a lot of money in the general.)

    Don’t feel bad about feeling bad. Totally reasonable. One thing that’s helped me a little bit (apart from the usual “shit, I can’t afford to get depressed right now!” inspired mental exercises) is to realize that you’re not alone.

  147. 147.

    Major Major Major Major

    November 23, 2016 at 1:54 pm

    @liberal: I said ‘if’.

  148. 148.

    JPL

    November 23, 2016 at 1:55 pm

    After reading about the choice for Education Secretary, I’ve gone from WTF, and joined others here on the WASF side.

  149. 149.

    Gravenstone

    November 23, 2016 at 1:56 pm

    @artem1s: Fuck that. Wall the bastards off. Maybe the Floridians can take crappy homebuilt boats to Cuba (what’s left of it after the sea level rises). I’m sure the remains of the Castro regime would welcome a reverse Mariel boat lift with open arms.

  150. 150.

    Major Major Major Major

    November 23, 2016 at 1:56 pm

    @EBT: This is not entirely accurate. You should be operating on the assumption that your calls are being listened to.

  151. 151.

    D58826

    November 23, 2016 at 1:58 pm

    @The Moar You Know: Always loved the space program. Dream job would be working on one of the Mars rovers but I had a bit of a problem with that 1 + 1 = 2 thing.

    I very reluctantly came to the same conclusion that at the moment manned missions are just not going to work. Now maybe we should keep the ISS flying if there is some chance that it will help develop technologies that overcome the deep space dangers. In fact only reason the ISS is habitable at all is that it orbits within the Von Allen radiation belts and the Apollo missions were not in deep space long enough to be a health hazard.

  152. 152.

    SiubhanDuinne

    November 23, 2016 at 1:58 pm

    @JPL:

    OMG, Betsy De-Fucking-VOS? She’s married into the Amway family, and her brother was a founder of Blackwater. She’s a huge “school choice” advocate. I guess we all know what that means.

    This just lurches from one unbelievable pick to another.

  153. 153.

    Captain C

    November 23, 2016 at 1:59 pm

    @Major Major Major Major:

    Lucrezia, please.

    Fair enough. Besides, given how Lolita was ultimately the victim, maybe that name fits better for Tiffany.

  154. 154.

    Major Major Major Major

    November 23, 2016 at 2:00 pm

    @SiubhanDuinne: I think she’s basically a “generic Republican” choice, actually. This is basically who Kasich probably would have picked.

    Don’t get me wrong, she’s awful, but she’s “within the known range of awful”-awful, not Trump-awful.

  155. 155.

    hovercraft

    November 23, 2016 at 2:04 pm

    Something to add to your wish lists everyone.
    via TPM

    For the low, low price of $149, you too can have a collectible Donald Trump “Make America Great Again” tiny red hat ornament.

    The Trump campaign is selling the exorbitantly priced ornaments on their website now and bills them as a “collectible” item.

    “Get in the Christmas spirit with your very own Make America Great Again Red Cap Collectible Ornament. Made of brass and finished in 14 karat gold, this ornament is sure to make any tree stand out,” the description says.

    You read that right: It is a tiny red hat “finished in 14 karat gold.”

    Grifters gonna grift.

  156. 156.

    D58826

    November 23, 2016 at 2:05 pm

    @Major Major Major Major: One of these days as we lower the bar more and more and dig the hole deeper and deeper , the Chinese are going to file a diplomatic protest that we have violated their territorial integrity.

  157. 157.

    Bobby D

    November 23, 2016 at 2:06 pm

    Thanks for the “chin up” wishes, ya’ll. It’s a weird feeling, being so emotionally untethered, very atypical for me. I’m used to being the steadying force, the “rock” and the leader when others are losing it. I know we’ll get through it, somehow. Thank FSM I only have to do this sh*t for another 3-5 years and can then “retire” to non-profit advocacy/policy/political work. I’ll be out of the civil service before I turn 50, with 20+yrs of federal service (also worked state and local govt for some years), but I never thought I’d be closing out my environmental career by fighting toot and nail to retain the gains we’ve made over the last 30yrs.

    Hope everyone else is coping well, it definitely helps to get it out here, so thanks for listening.

  158. 158.

    D58826

    November 23, 2016 at 2:06 pm

    @hovercraft: no self respecting tree would stand still long enough to have the ornament put on it.

  159. 159.

    Major Major Major Major

    November 23, 2016 at 2:07 pm

    @D58826: It’s an appropriate metaphor, since we’d first, by drilling through the core, unleash a series of fiery explosions.

    ETA: @Bobby D:

    Thank FSM I only have to do this sh*t for another 3-5 years and can then “retire” to non-profit advocacy/policy/political work.

    Revolving door! Lobbyist! Evil!
    Just kidding, but one of my pet peeves is that people don’t realize this is just what folks do, and is not necessarily institutional corruption.

  160. 160.

    Gravenstone

    November 23, 2016 at 2:07 pm

    @mai naem mobile: One type of rat poison is warfarin (commercial name Coumadin, et al.). It is a powerful anticoagulant and will result in death by internal bleeding is too high a dose is ingested.

  161. 161.

    mike in dc

    November 23, 2016 at 2:08 pm

    If Al Gore had warned that the Sweet Meteor of Death was coming, there’d be a thriving meteor denial industry. Trump would cut NASA funding for Near-Earth Object detection. Middle aged conservatives would note that the SMOD will hit after they die, so who cares? Etc.

  162. 162.

    Raven Onthill

    November 23, 2016 at 2:11 pm

    @JPL: Not going to have a lot of education in red states, if parents can pick schools that teach their prejudices. But that’s the point.

    Voucher systems are the practice in Sweden, and are an abysmal failure.

  163. 163.

    Major Major Major Major

    November 23, 2016 at 2:13 pm

    @Raven Onthill: As that article notes, they do however work well in Finland.

  164. 164.

    EBT

    November 23, 2016 at 2:14 pm

    @Major Major Major Major: It was shown ages and ages ago it is trivial to make a cell’s mic pick up even when you think the bastard phone is off. If you are doing anything you don’t want someone else to know make yourself a cheap Faraday cage.

  165. 165.

    D58826

    November 23, 2016 at 2:15 pm

    Congress critter Jordan is saying that Congress will continue to monitor the Clintons because of all the laws they have broken. They have a constitutional obligation it seems.

    They are private citizens. Presumably we have an FBI to conduct that witch hunt.
    They are going to need that pardon.

  166. 166.

    Major Major Major Major

    November 23, 2016 at 2:15 pm

    @EBT: Hardware-wise, yes. Software-wise, not so much, at least not on a smartphone.

    ETA: Like how it’s trivial to hack *a* voting machine, but not an election’s worth. If somebody can get you to click the right link or download the wrong app (impossible on an iPhone without testflight) or whatever, then somebody malicious can hack *your* phone, but not so much “any” phone.

  167. 167.

    tobie

    November 23, 2016 at 2:18 pm

    If you feel you’re in need of a collective primal scream, book your tickets for the Million Women’s March on Jan 21 now. (All genders welcome.) I just went to the Amtrak site and the trains on the Northeast corridor on Jan 21 are almost all sold out.

  168. 168.

    D58826

    November 23, 2016 at 2:18 pm

    @Raven Onthill: I think the problem is that in this country vouchers/charter schools are not really about education. They are a way to transfer the maximum amount of taxpayer money to the 1% while providing the minimum amount of service and oversight.

  169. 169.

    The Moar You Know

    November 23, 2016 at 2:20 pm

    If you have a cellular phone you should already be operating under the idea it is surreptitiously listening at all times.

    @EBT: And laptops. And I know people treat this as tin-foil hat territory, but damn, you really shouldn’t.

  170. 170.

    mike in dc

    November 23, 2016 at 2:21 pm

    @D58826:
    When we challenge Republican incumbents in 2018, everyone on the House Investigative Committee should be a target. Even if we only knock off one of them, the message gets sent. If we knock off the chair, it’s newsworthy.

  171. 171.

    D58826

    November 23, 2016 at 2:22 pm

    @Major Major Major Major: IN the article I read today, what you would do is hack into the election office laptop/desktop that loads the software/ballots to the individual voting machine. If the US could get the SUXTET virus into the Iranian nuclear program, hacking the local election office should be a cinch for a state actor.

  172. 172.

    Raven Onthill

    November 23, 2016 at 2:23 pm

    @D58826: they’re also a way to get public funding for teaching religious beliefs in schools. Christian Dominionists have supported them for years.

  173. 173.

    Major Major Major Major

    November 23, 2016 at 2:23 pm

    @The Moar You Know: That’s because it’s almost literally tin-foil hat territory. There will almost always be a way to get at what you’re doing no matter how careful you are; but these require targeting that is specific to a person, as well as some luck, so it’s not dragnet-applicable.

    ETA: @D58826: Stuxnet was specifically engineered for a specific kind of computer in a specific building and relied on an engineer plugging in a flash drive they found in a parking lot.

  174. 174.

    Poopyman

    November 23, 2016 at 2:23 pm

    Oh yeah, and today there’s this:

    (CNN)President-elect Donald Trump said a conversation with Ret. Marine Corps Gen. James Mattis gave him a new perspective on waterboarding, a torture tool he has pledged to reinstate.

    “General Mattis is a strong, highly dignified man. I met with him at length and I asked him that question. I said, ‘What do you think of waterboarding?'” the Trump told The New York Times on Tuesday. “He said — I was surprised — he said, ‘I’ve never found it to be useful.’ He said, ‘I’ve always found, give me a pack of cigarettes and a couple of beers and I do better with that than I do with torture.'”

    Trump added, “I’m not saying it changed my mind. Look, we have people that are chopping off heads and drowning people in steel cages and we’re not allowed to waterboard. But I’ll tell you what, I was impressed by that answer.”

    Trump is considering Mattis to serve as his secretary of defense.

  175. 175.

    Aleta

    November 23, 2016 at 2:23 pm

    So they think they can go up against the military, which is heavily committed to climate change predictions and related security preparations. I’d like to see them try to order the DoD to stop believing.

    http://www.defense.gov/News/Article/Article/612710 The report finds that climate change is a security risk, Pentagon officials said, because it degrades living conditions, human security and the ability of governments to meet the basic needs of their populations. …

    … To reduce the national security implications of climate change, combatant commands are integrating climate-related impacts into their planning cycles, officials said. The ability of the United States and other countries to cope with the risks and implications of climate change requires monitoring, analysis and integration of those risks into existing overall risk management measures, as appropriate for each combatant command, they added.

    The report concludes the Defense Department already is observing the impacts of climate change in shocks and stressors to vulnerable nations and communities, including in the United States, the Arctic, the Middle East, Africa, Asia and South America, officials said.

    The Center for Climate and Security (CCS) https://climateandsecurity.org/tag/u-s-military/ “a policy institute with an Advisory Board of retired senior military officers and national security experts” has articles on coordinated climate research by the DoD, JPL, etc. (I notice Tr’s statement is too cowardly to mention stopping climate research at these places. Because he can’t control the military on this. And, I believe, because they are aiming at defunding academic science but not private contractors.)

  176. 176.

    Aleta

    November 23, 2016 at 2:27 pm

    @Aleta: Anyway, here’s from a speech given by Ret. USAF General Keys. Video at the link.

    General Keys emphasized that the U.S. military doesn’t play politics with climate change and energy security, because it doesn’t have that luxury. The U.S. military looks at both climate change and energy security through the lens of how they effect its capacity to do its job as a war-fighter and humanitarian responder. A few key passages from the General:

    9:50: “We’ve got a lot of bases around the world, and there are a lot of them that are on the coast. And so we start to look at: What are the impacts of climate change on basing? Because just as you live in a village or city, a town, that’s what we live in. Our ports and our forts and our bases. And we have looked at the situation seriously, and we have 19 bases that we consider jewels in our crown of capability that are going to be affected by sea level rise. And it doesn’t have to rise eight feet. It only has to rise a couple of inches, and a good nor’easter pulls in, and all of a sudden we’re under water. If you look at Langley Air Force Base where our Raptors reside, it’s only seven feet above mean sea level right now. The problem is, the land is subsiding, sea level is rising, the currents are changing. We could, in about fifteen years, have 100 days of tidal flooding. Which means with just the normal high tide, we lose access to certain parts of our base. And it gets worse and worse and worse and worse. So we look at that and say: We need to start considering, what can we do? Now I can build a moat, or a barrier around Langley Air Force Base, but the problem is a lot of my people live in Newport News, live in Hampton. A lot of my electricity comes in from outside. My fuel comes in from outside. So at some point we get to the point: ‘I’ve got to move to higher ground.’ And we have started talking that just because that’s going to be a bloodletting when we tell the Congressman from Virginia that we’re picking up Langley Air Force Base and we’re going to Oklahoma. That’s not going to play well. So we need to start talking about that.”

    …
    15:05: “We think it’s serious. It’s important to us as the military. We think it’s even more important to all of us as a nation.”

  177. 177.

    hovercraft

    November 23, 2016 at 2:27 pm

    @D58826:

    They are private citizens. Presumably we have an FBI to conduct that witch hunt.
    They are going to need that pardon.

    I strongly disagree, as you say they are private citizens now. There is no crime there, there have been 9 investigations into Benghazi and her e-mails. To pursue her now that she is done running for office will make them look petty and ridiculous, not that’s ever stopped them before. What grounds do they have to pursue her? The FBI has exonerated her, so the most they can do is hold her in contempt of congress. If a new AG wants to re-open the case I have still not heard what they would be charging her with. The media always knew there was nothing there, but they still beat it like a drum because Clinton Rules. I know I’m not the one who would have to pay the legal bills, nut I say fuck em, let them do their worse and stand up to them. The GOP and the media have persecuted this woman for 25 years and she’s still standing, so let them try once more. I say this even though the American people have shaken my belief in their basic decency. But I don’t want her to have to slink off, the beneficiary of a pre-emptive presidential pardon like some criminal. She did nothing wrong.

  178. 178.

    EBT

    November 23, 2016 at 2:28 pm

    @Major Major Major Major: And the average luser is an idiot, to paraphrase Carlin.

  179. 179.

    Peale

    November 23, 2016 at 2:31 pm

    @hovercraft: The advantage is this. While WE may want to get out the message that Medicare is in deep shit, the diminishing amount of time in the press devoted to the Democrats will be spent talking about defending Hillary Clinton. While We may want to identify a new candidate to rally around, and have that candidate speak about our concerns, all the questions will be about whether or not he or she will Pardon the Clintons.

  180. 180.

    Major Major Major Major

    November 23, 2016 at 2:31 pm

    @EBT: Yeah, but nobody (in the US government) is making a dragnet of hacked smartphones.

  181. 181.

    Chris

    November 23, 2016 at 2:32 pm

    @Aleta:

    If they really wanted to push it, what could the military do, other than tell Trump as clearly as possible and as slowly as possible in the situation room that this is a real threat and he’d be making a mistake by ignoring it?

    Most of the military’s political clout comes from the unquestioning support they get from conservatives and many liberals… on certain issues. But most of their political allies won’t go to bat for them for climate change. And enough of their own soldiers already believe it’s a left wing hoax that between that and simple careerism, they shouldn’t have a lot of trouble replacing generals who make too much of an issue out of it with those that have the right mentality.

  182. 182.

    JPL

    November 23, 2016 at 2:33 pm

    @SiubhanDuinne: She destroyed the Detroit Public Schools..
    http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/29/us/for-detroits-children-more-school-choice-but-not-better-schools.html
    Who would have thought that when you take money out of public education for charter schools, what is left behind is ruins.

  183. 183.

    schrodinger's cat

    November 23, 2016 at 2:33 pm

    @hovercraft: Pardoning HRC seems like preemptive surrender. She did nothing wrong.

  184. 184.

    D58826

    November 23, 2016 at 2:37 pm

    @Major Major Major Major: true. But I think the KGB is smart enough to figure out how to hack a generic PC in an election office. My point was if you could succeed with something that is orders of magnitude more difficult like Stuxnet then the local election office should be a snap.

  185. 185.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    November 23, 2016 at 2:41 pm

    @debbie:

    This is the real danger with Trump: Who knows what he thinks and where he stands?

    You’re assuming Trump thinks at all and isn’t just constantly running on emotion. What ever that reptilian hind brain says is what’s Trump is thinking.

    Seriously, I think the problem with Trump it’s way to easy to over think his actions.

    I think actual Clinton prosecution is unlikely, would require to much systematic planning for these clowns, more likely Trump will look for the easy way out like with the Ford Plant (non)Closer.

  186. 186.

    hovercraft

    November 23, 2016 at 2:41 pm

    @Peale:
    Then We have to have the balls to tell the media to STFU, if they have any questions about a private citizen then go ask them. Every single republican went on TV the last year and a half and refused to talk about the shitgibbon, the f**king speaker of the house and the majority leader of the senate refused to talk about their nominee, so we need to tell them the exact same thing, I’, here to talk about Medicare or whatever. Throw it back in their faces, you spent a year and a half taking about e-mails and hand size now a moron is running the country, I’m here to talk about issues.
    @schrodinger’s cat:
    My point exactly, no pardon, f**k em.

  187. 187.

    D58826

    November 23, 2016 at 2:43 pm

    @hovercraft:

    Presumably we have an FBI to conduct that witch hunt

    I should have made it more clear that if there is something to investigate at this point it would be done by the FBI under the control of a US attorney. But unless there is something there that hasn’t been disclosed then an FBI investigation is just as much a witch hunt. Should have stated that more clearly.

  188. 188.

    D58826

    November 23, 2016 at 2:44 pm

    @JPL: Feature not a bug

  189. 189.

    Brachiator

    November 23, 2016 at 2:46 pm

    @JPL:

    Betsy Devos for education.

    No background in education or public policy. Children attend private Christian schools. Making America great again??

  190. 190.

    The Moar You Know

    November 23, 2016 at 2:46 pm

    Yeah, but nobody (in the US government) is making a dragnet of hacked smartphones.

    @Major Major Major Major: We were told, word for word, the same thing about our internet traffic back in the 00s. We know now that was not true. The telcoms were hoovering up every last bit of data coming across their networks and handing it to various interested agencies. The scope of AT&T’s project, going back to 1987, makes the NSA’s efforts look half-hearted…and they weren’t selling anything to the feds, but to local cops.

    I do computer security for a living. Everyone needs to stop assuming that you’re secure unless targeted, or secure because there’s just too much data to plow through. Those are incorrect assumptions. You live in a 24/7 surveillance state. My professional advice would be to act accordingly.

    ETA: My personal advice is somewhat more extreme.

  191. 191.

    D58826

    November 23, 2016 at 2:47 pm

    saw this on Huffington as part of a longer article

    Beyond his own business conflicts, Kusher’s brother, Joshua Kushner, co-founded Oscar, a health insurance company that operates solely on the state exchanges created by Obamacare.

    Words fail.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/jared-kushner-white-house_us_5835bc24e4b09b6055ffc064

  192. 192.

    D58826

    November 23, 2016 at 2:49 pm

    @The Moar You Know: (sigh) back to quill pens, ink pots and two cans tied together with a string

  193. 193.

    Major Major Major Major

    November 23, 2016 at 2:53 pm

    @The Moar You Know: Of course corporations are hoovering up your information. People here are talking about the government, hacking your devices, at an individual level.

    ETA: @D58826: If you want perfect security get pen, paper, and a one-time pad. Everything else is compromisable.

    That doesn’t mean the government is hacking your webcam.

  194. 194.

    Brachiator

    November 23, 2016 at 2:53 pm

    @schrodinger’s cat:

    Pardoning HRC seems like preemptive surrender.

    Is there any serious discussion anywhere that anyone wants to charge her with anything? So far, I am not seeing that there is anything here worth worrying about.

  195. 195.

    hovercraft

    November 23, 2016 at 2:56 pm

    Look what our “economically anxious” fellow Americans have wrought.
    via GOS

    A fifth grade student in Washington County, MN, threatened to kill a 3rd grade Muslim student. Three days later, he brought a gun to school (an air pistol), which was confiscated on the bus on the way to school.

    Sheriff Bill Hutton said the incident was under investigation but that there had been no indication so far that a hate crime was committed.

    Right. “I’m going to kill you, Muslim,” is not necessarily a hate crime. Are they skeptical that hate was the primary motivation for this incident, or are they doubting that a crime was committed at all? The above mentioned sheriff originally described the weapon as a “replica handgun,” so maybe they are saying since it’s an air pistol it wasn’t a crime and therefore not a hate crime.

    The same day of the initial threat, another student allegedly attacked female Muslim students by grabbing their hijabs. Several students reported this attack, but school officials said there was no evidence and nothing has happened to the student who allegedly assaulted these girls.

    ***

    Behavior is learned. These children are only modeling behavior that they see grownups exhibit. Please don’t act surprised that hate crimes incidents that may be hate crimes are being committed in schools across the country. It would be irresponsible not to assume that these acts will continue to take place, particularly if no one, from adults to children, are held responsible.

  196. 196.

    Major Major Major Major

    November 23, 2016 at 3:00 pm

    @The Moar You Know:

    We were told, word for word, the same thing about our internet traffic back in the 00s.

    Yeah, but that didn’t pass a basic smell test. Setting up what amounts to a massive botnet of smartphones–sophisticated devices with software that’s either open-source and publicly audited (Android) or very well-encrypted and already at loggerheads with the FBI (iOS)–is a very different question.

    ETA: I do data mining, and I run with paranoid hackers, I know what’s possible and what’s been done in specific cases and with limited scope. I don’t think these are realistic scenarios right now.

  197. 197.

    Citizen_X

    November 23, 2016 at 3:02 pm

    @stinger:

    Obama needs to sit down with his new buddy and tell him this, in very simple words. Over and over. Until The Donald thinks he came up with it himself. Then maybe his hatred of immigrants will at least cause him to fund climate research and alternative energies.

    And that epiphany will last, what? Five minutes? The man is completely inconstant, and he thinks that’s one of his strengths. He would be turned again by his cloud of idealogue/lobbyist hangers-on as soon as the Times publishes the news of his new reasonableness.

  198. 198.

    hovercraft

    November 23, 2016 at 3:05 pm

    Steve Bannon Thinks He’s Smarter than Liberals
    by Nancy LeTourneau

    …….As Bannon made clear throughout that interview, he thinks he’s a lot smarter than his liberal opponents. So he assumes that he can play them by tossing out lines like that one about the power of dark forces and watch them set their hair on fire while he carries on with his plans. In other words, Bannon throws out incendiary bait that triggers System 1 thinking while he strategizes about how to outmaneuver them with System 2 thinking.

    System 1: Fast, automatic, frequent, emotional, stereotypic, subconscious
    System 2: Slow, effortful, infrequent, logical, calculating, conscious

    Here’s how he described his work behind the scenes to Kimberly Strassel:

    I never went on TV one time during the campaign. Not once. You know why? Because politics is war. General Sherman would never have gone on TV to tell everyone his plans. I’d never tip my hand to the other side. And right now we’ve got work to do.……

    This is not to suggest that liberals shouldn’t speak up when Trump or Bannon say outrageous things. They just need to recognize when/how they are being played. A perfect example related to the whole Hamilton saga was that, while everyone was reacting to that tweet, it provided a distraction to the fact that Trump settled the law suit related to his so-called “university” for $25 million……

    In essence, the Bannon/Trump game is to inflame liberals by being outrageous bullies. It is tempting to simply raise the stakes by bullying back. That’s how they’re setting the table for the game to be played while Bannon maneuvers behind the scenes and laughs at liberal’s for taking the bait.

  199. 199.

    debbie

    November 23, 2016 at 3:07 pm

    @hovercraft:

    I’ve never met a conservative who didn’t think s/he was the brightest bulb in the room.

  200. 200.

    Major Major Major Major

    November 23, 2016 at 3:09 pm

    @hovercraft: This is definitely part of e.g. Milo’s MO. Say something inflammatory about how the left is a bunch of Jihad-enabling PC bullies and also Muslims are murderers, then use the reaction to the latter to prove the former.

  201. 201.

    D58826

    November 23, 2016 at 3:13 pm

    @Major Major Major Major:

    That doesn’t mean the government is hacking your webcam.

    Hmm just have to figure out how to permanently mount the flying fickle finger of fate between me and the camera

  202. 202.

    Raven Onthill

    November 23, 2016 at 3:15 pm

    @Major Major Major Major: No, actually, the article says the opposite:

    The much-vaunted schools of Finland, a country entirely free of charter schools (italics mine), consistently perform near the top of the PISA rankings

    They do cite New Orleans as a possible success, but even that result has been questioned. A New York Times piece says not.

    I think the best we can say is that voucher systems may work in rare cases. Why on earth would we want to make them federal educational policy?

  203. 203.

    Mothra

    November 23, 2016 at 3:19 pm

    I believe that it will be more difficult for Trump to unwind the climate agreement than Trump thinks.

    And that most Senators are not insane.

    But they do need constant pressure from us to make the right choices.

  204. 204.

    hovercraft

    November 23, 2016 at 3:19 pm

    @debbie: @Major Major Major Major:
    We do need to do a better job of not taking every piece of bait, even though we are fully capable of walking and chewing gum, the media are not. They can only focus on one thing at a time, the more petty and trivial the better. I used to think that if it involved sex it would be a BFD, but I’ve recently discovered that it’s only democratic sex and sexual organs that are scandalous, GOP pecadillos are personal matters barely worthy of discussion.

  205. 205.

    divf

    November 23, 2016 at 3:25 pm

    @hovercraft: Bannon is Rove redux, with an extra helping of white supremacy. The one thing that we can count on is that he will overreach – these right-wing clowns always do, because they are impervious to any evidence that their strategy might be taking them off the rails. The only question is, how many people will die, or have their lives ruined, in the process.

  206. 206.

    tobie

    November 23, 2016 at 3:25 pm

    @hovercraft: My understanding was that the push to focus on Medicare privatization, which evidently is the first thing on the agenda, was precisely to find that wedge issue that would disturb some of Trump’s voters. I find it hard not to get provoked these days…but knowing that’s part of Bannon’s evil plan will help me keep it in check.

  207. 207.

    Major Major Major Major

    November 23, 2016 at 3:27 pm

    @Raven Onthill: OK, fair enough, it’s free of vouchers because it’s free of charters, but it still has a ‘voucher’-like free choice system rather than a mandatory geography-based thing. Again, just sayin’. What works or doesn’t work in other countries is often a lot less relevant than it sounds.

    @hovercraft: Yeah, on the one hand fuck him, but on the other hand he’s putting our reactions under the spotlight.

  208. 208.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    November 23, 2016 at 3:30 pm

    @divf:

    Bannon is Rove redux, with an extra helping of white supremacy.

    A proud white Turdblossom.

  209. 209.

    Peale

    November 23, 2016 at 3:34 pm

    @hovercraft: Yep. Not certain what to do about it, though. It’s all good and well for the Democrats promoting the “end of identify politics” to run off to rural areas to recapture the “white working class”, that MAY be the path forward, but they are going to be spending a lot of time telling existing Democrats to “shut the fuck up” when the voters who are in the party because of that inclusion get riled up. We are going to get played and played again around some of our well established fracture lines and just when we think we’ve got the right message, we’ll get played again.

  210. 210.

    Chris

    November 23, 2016 at 3:38 pm

    @debbie:

    I’ve never met a conservative who didn’t think s/he was the brightest bulb in the room.

    Nor have I. Nor have I ever met one who actually was (and I, personally, have rarely considered myself the brightest bulb in any room I wasn’t alone in). The phrase “a stupid person’s idea of what a smart person sounds like” might’ve been coined for Newt Gingrich, but it describes a stupendous number of the conservatives I’ve met IRL, too.

  211. 211.

    Major Major Major Major

    November 23, 2016 at 3:43 pm

    @Chris: I’ve met some pretty smart libertarians, to be honest. ETA: But even when they were the smartest person in the room, they still acted like it, which is major-league doucheyness.

    @Peale: There’s a thing on the rec list at GOS right now where an Ohio county Dem chairman (or something) says, basically, that voters thought the democratic party cared more about what bathroom people used than getting folks jobs. So the Republicans took something that nobody but god-bothering Republicans was actually worried about, turned it into an issue, and then the Democrats got the blame for putting it front and center even though they weren’t doing that. I don’t even know what to do any more. Post-truth indeed.

  212. 212.

    BellyCat

    November 23, 2016 at 3:48 pm

    @Chris: Yup. Self-reinforcing phenomena. Long game of horrors.

  213. 213.

    divf

    November 23, 2016 at 3:49 pm

    @Peale:

    It’s all good and well for the Democrats promoting the “end of identify politics” to run off to rural areas to recapture the “white working class”, that MAY be the path forward, but they are going to be spending a lot of time telling existing Democrats to “shut the fuck up” when the voters who are in the party because of that inclusion get riled up.

    I don’t think that the Dems or the country have that choice. There is too much toothpaste that is impossible to get back into the tube: 11M undocumented immigrants that play pivotal roles in some sectors of the economy; gay marriage and gays in the military; the ubiquity of video technology that documents in graphic fashion blacks being shot down by police. Short of rounding up a substantial fraction of the population and sending us to camps (which is not going to happen), I don’t see these things being walked back.

    No, I think that what we are going to get is GOP looting of the public purse on steroids. The there are multiple ways that crashes and burns, on varying degrees of short time scales: a 2008-style (or 1929-style) economic collapse, the “WWC” realizing that they are being taken for chumps, or various unintended consequences of taking an enterprise as big and complicated as the federal government and making very large changes in it.
    This last risk, BTW, is the reason that Obama and Hillary stood out as public servants: they both clearly understood that you can’t turn large chunks of the US economy on a dime.

  214. 214.

    Peale

    November 23, 2016 at 3:54 pm

    @Major Major Major Major: Yep. Not certain what can be done about that. Honestly. Its really easy to say “throw the transsexuals out”, just like it was easy to say “throw the gays out and focus on the real issues” in the past. Whenever we lose, there are these groups that get say “we would have won, except that we have xxx and if we just get rid of xxx we would have won. Lets get back to fundamentals.” But its not like we have control over what outrage is going to be committed. We think that if we just focus on saving medicare and social security from an “honest to goodness its real this time folks” threat, that the voters will come out. Then some Congressman will hold a hearing about mandating that insurance companies don’t cover abortions and forbid insurance companies from all forms of birth control while demanding that they cover conversion therapy and that becomes the issue. What are we supposed to tell people when they react to that? Don’t boo. Don’t protest that?

  215. 215.

    Major Major Major Major

    November 23, 2016 at 3:54 pm

    @divf:

    The there are multiple ways that crashes and burns, on varying degrees of short time scales: a 2008-style (or 1929-style) economic collapse

    If Trump gets a war economy, his fascist-style stimulus, and his pick at the Fed, they could very well loot while the economy went gangbusters and leave the whole thing a pile of smoking rubble only when they’re ready to be finished.

  216. 216.

    D58826

    November 23, 2016 at 3:59 pm

    Well that got me in the holiday spirt – der Fuhrer just sent out a tweet ‘happy thanksgiving to all – even the haters and losers’.

    In the meantime his new sec of ed. brags about using soft money to buy politicians. https://twitter.com/kelsosmegaphone/status/801526975038914560

    but Hillary’s e-mails……..

  217. 217.

    Major Major Major Major

    November 23, 2016 at 4:03 pm

    @D58826:

    der Fuhrer just sent out a tweet ‘happy thanksgiving to all – even the haters and losers’.

    …if he did, it’s not on his timeline.

  218. 218.

    divf

    November 23, 2016 at 4:03 pm

    @Major Major Major Major: I don’t see it. (1) His so-called stimulus will be tax incentives, not new spending, so no real stimulative effect – the Tea Party will see to that. (2) If that were the case, the Iraq war would not have led to the 2008 Great Recession. If anything, the effects will happen more rapidly, since we are more than another decade into the secular impact of massive income distribution skew.

  219. 219.

    Major Major Major Major

    November 23, 2016 at 4:09 pm

    eta: nm

  220. 220.

    Original Lee

    November 23, 2016 at 5:02 pm

    @aimai: I worry about a number of young people I know who are starting college in STEM-oriented careers. Will they be lost to science after they graduate?

  221. 221.

    Sab

    November 23, 2016 at 5:49 pm

    @frosty: I have always subscribed to whatever Fallows is working for.

  222. 222.

    notoriousJRT

    November 23, 2016 at 6:01 pm

    All hail the King of the Know-Nothings.
    News like this is why I cannot respect anyone who voted for Trump. I just want nothing to do with such people.

  223. 223.

    Blue Galangal

    November 23, 2016 at 8:43 pm

    @debbie:

    debbie says:
    I’ve never met a conservative who didn’t think s/he was the brightest bulb in the room.

    And are really extremely resentful of people with education. I just discovered my mother thinks I look down on her because I have a master’s degree and a doctorate, and I voted for HRC. I know… that says more about her than about me. But it’s stunning.

  224. 224.

    fuckwit

    November 23, 2016 at 9:28 pm

    @Raven Onthill: It’s the grift. Just think of the profit opportunity!

    Bring on the Brawndo!

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