I was greeted by this heartwarming display on the corner of my street today. Thank you to all of you who did this. Happy Thanksgiving. -H pic.twitter.com/b69mW3Oqbf
— Hillary Clinton (@HillaryClinton) November 24, 2016
Apart from recovering from yesterday’s festivities and/or shopping plans, what’s on the agenda for the day?
***********
Jared Bernstein and Ben Spielberg, in the Washington Post, “Thankful for the Fight for $15“:
The Fight for $15 has been incredibly successful since 100 fast-food workers first went on strike on Nov. 29, 2012, in New York City. The movement they helped create went 5-for-5 during the most recent election, winning ballot initiatives in Arizona, Colorado, Maine and Washington, while defeating a subminimum wage law for teenagers in South Dakota. And with the anniversary of its original strike approaching, that movement is only gaining steam.
As Bryce Covert of the news site ThinkProgress recently reported, workers in more than 340 cities will go on strike again on Tuesday, while “fast food employees, airport workers, childcare and home care providers, and university graduate students” will engage in “civil disobedience at McDonald’s and 20 of the nation’s largest airports.” The workers have also upped the ante: In addition to their calls for minimum wage increases, they’re “demanding no deportations of undocumented immigrants, an end to police violence against black people, and the protection of health care coverage.”
Winning all of these important fights is unlikely, especially in an era of Republican governance, but this type of grass-roots activism is exactly what’s needed. Coupled with the widespread popularity of increasing the minimum wage, these protests could help lead to an increase in the federal wage floor sometime during the next four years.
Such an increase would be long overdue. The federal minimum wage has been stuck at $7.25 an hour since July 2009 and, after accounting for inflation, is 24 percent below its maximum annual value from 1968. It was 55 percent of the median wage that year, according to OECD data; in 2015, that ratio had fallen to 36 percent, significantly below international norms…
rikyrah
Morning, Everyone???
Ian
At least it looks like we are going to fight these fights. Even if we lose, it gives us a platform for moving forward. It is also awesome to see consensus that we must fight all of these fights, not just a select few.
JPL
The local news just covered the thank you from Hillary.
@rikyrah: Morning!
opiejeanne
@rikyrah: Good morning!
I get a vicodin now! Woohoo!
Mustang Bobby
Not much going on here today; picking up the Mustang from the shop after getting new brakes and tires and replacement of the serpentine belt, but that’s it for venturing out. I’ve been enjoying bingeing on “Grace and Frankie.”
Got some new blooms on the chili pepper vanda orchid and hibiscus.
BillinGlendaleCA
@opiejeanne: Sounds fun; I have one question prior* to the consumption of the vicodin, how are you doing?
*I have a pretty good idea what the answer will afterwards.
BillinGlendaleCA
This is a problem with us, we try to shoehorn everything under the sun into our actions. The Right Wing doesn’t do that, they hammer at one thing until they get it.
OzarkHillbilly
If life gives you a wildfire, make wildfire whiskey:
opiejeanne
@BillinGlendaleCA: Still feels like there’s a knife slicing at my innards if I move, and I’m sitting up to sleep because coughing hurts like the devil.
Other than that,I feel just peachy.
The vicodin helps but doesn’t completely stop the pain; I tend to nod off mid-conversation.
JPL
@opiejeanne: Not fun. What happened?
OzarkHillbilly
@opiejeanne: Have you been to a doc? I started shitting blood Weds and got my not so happy ass into the doc first thing in the morn. Supposed to get a CAT scan today. I don’t play with this kind of shit, having almost lost a couple friends to “abdominal discomfort”.
ps: hoard those vicod1ns, the FDA has ordered a 66% reduction in vicod1n production next year because of all the stupid white people abusing opiates
satby
@rikyrah: Morning rikyrah ?
@opiejeanne: I always felt worse the second day after surgery (or an injury), so this may feel like the worst day to you. But then things would get better, so I hope your recovery is swift!
satby
@OzarkHillbilly: Man, this hasn’t been a good year for you either! Hope it’s nothing serious.
OzarkHillbilly
@satby: Ah! I see I missed she had surgery. Recover quickly Opiejeanne.
@satby: 2016 can’t end soon enough.
JPL
@OzarkHillbilly: Healing thoughts for you also.
JPL
Kellyanne Conway is tweeting that some people don’t want Romney to be Secretary of State. Maybe the plan is to have Romney step aside, rather than have Trump just say no.
raven
A buddy is selling his Lexus and I think I’m going to buy it. I have a 2003 Accord with only 89K but it’s just not that comfortable. The Lexus has twice the mileage but it is really nice.
Poopyman
@opiejeanne: The highlight of the day. :^)
@rikyrah: Morning, Sunshine!
Rise and shine, everyone! Get out there and spend spend spend! As for me and the Mrs., we’re chillin’.
satby
@OzarkHillbilly:
It’s definitely been a sucky year for a lot of us, but I’m afraid we may look back and miss it next year. Not a good feeling to have.
satby
@Poopyman: I worked retail for my first jobs, consequently I haven’t done Black Friday for over 30 years. I try never to go out at all, but I have to get to a grocery store later (much later) today. I’ve been a slug for the last two days from all the travel, going right back to work the day after I came home, and the stress of all the animal problems. But it’s my last day off and I need to get stuff done today.
NeenerNeener
@JPL: Keith Olbermann says the 25th Amendment can be used to get rid of Trump almost immediately after the inauguration by having Pense and two thirds of Congress declare him unfit/unable to do the job. There is some “am so/are not” back and forth between the dump-ee and the dumpers, but Pense could be president within about a week if Ryan has the stones and the votes to start the proceedings. As bad as Pense is, I don’t think he would order a drone strike on Broadway. I can’t say the same about Trump.
Ramalama
@raven: My sister inherited an older Lexus – maybe 1998? from her father-in-law and that thing still runs and drives like an absolute champ. She lent it to me last year for a couple of weeks. What a sweet ride.
OzarkHillbilly
@JPL: Meh, it’s probably much ado about nothing. I stopped the blood thinners weds and by yesterday afternoon the bleeding was minimal, will probably stop altogether today. I still have some discomfort but it is not and never was pain, just a feeling of “I gotta shit” all the time. The stopping of the blood thinners is a problem as I can’t go too long without them. The other thing is in addition to the holiday wkend, my regular PRN is heading for the northwest coast for a week to see her granddaughter which leaves me in the care of her supervising physician whom I’ve never even met. I’m sure she’s a fine doc and all that but I’ve been seeing Robin for well over a decade and in that time she has in all likelihood no-shit-saved-my-life on 2 occasions. As stubborn as I am, that ain’t easy. So there will be a trust factor missing as we try to figure this out.
Sucks to be me. Again.
NotMax
For those in need of a bit of a smile, a blast from the past.
Vaudevillian Irv Benson (who died at the age of 102 earlier this year [obit]) in his Sidney Spritzer persona.
For the young’uns, certainly was an inspiration for the Muppets’ Statler & Waldorf.
OldDave
@raven:
LS430? They are reportedly the last of the brick-shithouse Lexus models. There are some problem areas to be careful of (air suspension on some models, for example) but wonderful cars.
Ramalama
At the risk of drawing Cole’s ire my way, I found this reddit post that might be apropos here with a more seasoned readership… If you’re elderly and have been diagnosed with dementia, it would behoove you to make sure have your iron levels checked. It might be anemia and not dementia. https://np.reddit.com/r/science/comments/5e5fp2/dramatic_decline_in_dementia_of_approximately_25/daaikw0/
Totally anecdotal for sure, but what does it hurt to have that checked?
SiubhanDuinne
Florence Henderson has died :-(
daveNYC
@BillinGlendaleCA: Just hope that nobody shows up with a Free Mumia sign.
debbie
@Poopyman:
Sadly, I have to work. Hopefully, there won’t be many people there and there won’t be much to do.
NotMax
@SiubhanDuinne
(Repeating.) In memoriam.
Note that she was approaching 80 at the time of this performance.
Raven
@OldDave: its an ES 300
JPL
@OzarkHillbilly: There’s a lesson to be learned from this. Health care should not be tied to the free market. You can’t choose when to get sick. Good luck and I hope it does turn out to be much ado about nothing.
satby
@NotMax: love that! Never was much of a fan of the TV show, but RIP Ms. Henderson. 82 is a pretty good run.
debbie
@OzarkHillbilly:
Good luck, and I hope it’s nothing serious. I’m on thinners too, and they can be a bitch to stay on top of.
BillinGlendaleCA
@daveNYC: I believe that it’s a given that they will.
Hal
I’m still trying to wrap my brain around why Mitt Romney would want to be part of the Trump administration. The potential train wreck we are going to witness, combined with the fact that he has a reasonable Republican reputation, which is bullshit, but still, why latch on to Trump of all people? Is he that desperate to be close as possible to the presidency? That’s all I can think of at this point.
JPL
@NeenerNeener: Domestic policy is a nightmare with either Pense or Trump, but I agree with you on the use of drones.
PaulWartenberg2016
@SiubhanDuinne:
#DAMNYOU2016
This is turning out to be one sh-tty year, ain’t it folks?
/cries
Poopyman
@Hal: It could quite simply be that he loves his country enough to “sacrifice” whatever chance he has at a future political career (i.e.none) so as to at least be some kind of mitigating influence on the whirlwind of chaos that the Trump Administration is going to be.
I choose to believe this for the time being. It’s better for my mental health.
OzarkHillbilly
@debbie: Back when I was on the rat poison I was horrible about coming in and getting my blood levels checked. Finally my PRN put me on xare1to so I wouldn’t need to anymore. I have a feeling those days of freedom are coming to an end.
Dadadadadadada
@Hal: He’s that desperate to latch onto a president, any president. You nailed it.
debbie
@OzarkHillbilly:
My doctor wouldn’t prescribe that for me because she said they didn’t know all of the side effects. You know they have self-testers for INR like they do blood sugar? I can’t afford one, but they are out there.
OzarkHillbilly
@Hal: It’s all about ego: “See? I’m still important.”
Patricia Kayden
I wish Secretary Clinton would challenge the votes in MI, PA and WI as so many computer scientists have urged her to do but I completely respect the fact that she’s exhausted and just wants to move on with her life. Hopefully she will work with President Obama to expand the Democratic base to get a Democratic President in the White House in 2020.
D58826
@Hal: My guess is that it confers ‘respectability’ on the Trump side and a way to protect his family’s political and esp. business interests on the Romney side. After dissing Trump in the primaries he wants to get back in der Fuhrer’s good graces. The voting public will quickly forget that he sold his soul but a vengeful Fuhrer could have a long term negative impact on the family economic bottom line.
OzarkHillbilly
@debbie: Yeah, i’ve heard of the self testers, I’ll probably end up with one if it’s anywhere near reasonable..
Poopyman
I had to go back and enjoy this again. Thanks, BC!
As you were.
D58826
@OzarkHillbilly: not covered by medical plan? Check the manufacturer web site sometimes they have programs to give you the tester and you just have to pay for the testing supplies.
JMG
Since about the only thing that could seriously disrupt Mitt Romney’s life is nuclear war, he may wish to be in a position where he could help try to avert one. Although how long can anyone last where every phone call begins, “What the President meant to say was…”
Baud
Happy Black Friday to those who cerebrate it.
Hope all the ill feel better by festivus.
Poopyman
@Patricia Kayden: Let’s do a little thought experiment.
Say your name is Vlad Putin and you have a very good cyber corps at your disposal. At the beginning of 2016 you meet with your advisers to determine whether the risk of hacking the US election is worth it. Risk management is balancing the probability of an event occurring (discovery of the hack) versus the consequence (woo boy! Or not…)
Your advisers assure you that they can hack into certain types of machines/operating systems used by some states, and that it can be done without detection (probably true, btw). You’re not so sure. You ultimately choose NOT to hack the election.
Fast forward to today. You see that suspicion of a hacking is widespread through the US, but ultimately no one even attempts to investigate that possibility.
What are you, Vlad, going to be doing come 2018 and 2020?
satby
@JMG: is it bad that I’m hoping for Drumpf to have a major coronary before January? I think it’s Pense and the crazy caucus coming up with these cabinet names anyway, there’s no way Drumpf was all that familiar with someone like Devoss before she
bought a positioncontributed to his campaign.OzarkHillbilly
@D58826:
If and when I go back to the coumed!n I’ll find out. In my experience if there is a way to cut the cost of some medicine, I’m not eligible for it for some obscure reason only manufacturers, insurers, and pharmacists can ascertain.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Baud: Madame has just started work in Mr. Macy’s sweatshop, Fuck Black Friday!
Baud
@BillinGlendaleCA:
— Karl Marx
(Or is that Richard Marx? Whatev.)
Elizabelle
@Patricia Kayden: Good morning, all.
Has Hillary said definitively that she won’t pursue a recount? Tired doesn’t cut it. We need to know that that outcome was due to voters, and not hackers.
Elizabelle
@BillinGlendaleCA: in solidarity, I will not shop today and certainly not at Macy’s. Sick of commercialism and conspicuous consumption.
JPL
@satby: Is it wrong of me for wanting him to be impeached, and the trumpettes then storm the republican held congress?
I think not.
JPL
@Elizabelle: My older son likes to venture out, and he wants me to go with him.
I’m hoping he changes his mind though.
Jinchi
@OzarkHillbilly:
Obama is still president. As far as I’m concerned 2016 can take as long as it wants.
OzarkHillbilly
@satby: If she wasn’t in one of his pageants, I doubt he’d remember her even then.
OzarkHillbilly
@Jinchi: I feel ya.
Schlemazel
@OzarkHillbilly:
2016 had not exactly been a picnic for you Oz, hopefully this is nothing and puts the period at the end of the sentence that was 2016.
glory b
@Elizabelle: I want to see a recount/audit (I don’t know if there s a difference)> I’m in PA and I know it has the biggest vote difference, but I’m not a conspiracy buff but still suspicious.
Pushback on PsiFightert37 from a thread from yesterday, I refuse to call PA a red state! Dems have won every statewide elected office for the last three elections, except 2016 president and senator. We’re gerrymandered all to hell, but that was from being asleep at the switch in 2010. We have a Dem governor, Auditor General, Attorney General, Treasurer and dem majorities on our Supreme, Commonwealth and Superior courts. the last three won this election. I don’t believe that many people voted for Trump, then all dems down the ballot.
The Supreme court gets the last word on redistricting, and the 5-2 majority we have will be in place in 2020. The repubs to extend the retirement age of justices to 75 in order to save one of the R justices from what they believe is another dem next election.
They are withholding money for unemployment and holding out for new abortion restrictions in return. right now, this means half of all the workers in the department (including me) will have to be furloughed by Dec. 19. I’m nervous, not spending for this holiday.
Yoda Dog
I voted Bernie in the primary and then swore I would never forgive Hillary if she somehow lost the general.
But I was wrong to doubt her at all, she really won over my respect throughout the entire campaign. She was a great candidate and would’ve been a great President. I don’t fault her that this country is just too fucking stupid and hateful and apathetic to have nice things.
Run, Lillian!
@Jinchi: I am in total agreement, I want to put off 2017 as long as possible so I can still enjoy the Obamas as the First Family. I am dreading what comes when the Trumps take over. Gives new meaning to the phrase shudder to think.
Schlemazel
@NotMax:
THANKS! That was a great bit & you sure can see the muppets act there.
It sort of surprised me because I thought Berle’s ego wouldn’t have allowed him to be the straight man. He got a lot of mugging in and a couple of zingers in but mostly he played 3nd in that piece.
Baud
@JPL: If that’s wrong, I don’t want to be right.
Run, Lillian!
@Yoda Dog: Thank you for this.
@glory b: I am still gobsmacked by the PA results, Trump never lead in polling there. It is going to take me forever to wrap my head around this election. Sending good thoughts your way.
OzarkHillbilly
@Yoda Dog: Not to mention….
Russian propaganda effort helped spread ‘fake news’ during election, experts say
and
German Spies Are “Alarmed” Over Threat To Election From Fake News And Russians
Botsplainer
So here in Louisville, we had a horrific event yesterday at a community flag football game – a mass shooting occurred while the mayor was present. As with all these, it was a business dispute being resolved in an extrajudicial fashion, as the courts are closed to these sorts of disputes.
As with all communities suffering these murders, much is related to an ossified system of narcot!cs enforcement and the use of multiple informants often tied to different detectives. In order to preserve market share, shut down competition and avoid incarceration, the snitches work at cross purposes against one another, and are now killing people they seem as snitches or are likely to snitch.
These results are tragic – this summer, a 14 year old and 16 year old were stabbed to death for having witnessed a prior murder. I was well acquainted with the mom and the older boy, as I’d tried (on behalf of the dad) to get the state to intervene on his behalf two years ago. Tragic case – mom was dealing smack out of the house while the boys were there, dad was just out of prison for his umpteenth sentence for selling crack, was worried for the kid and had strong feelings about the heroin trade. Social worker paid zero attention to me, especially when mom’s charges got dismissed when she clearly made her snitch deal.
Wind the clock forward, the boys get involved in the family business and awful shit happens.
Schlemazel
@glory b:
Unless the media picks up the story and runs it every day the recount is hopeless. It will only be ‘sour grapes’ and pasta help us all if the uncover fraud because the Briebarts and jones and stormfronts will scream about how the fraud was committed during the recount by the evil “them” and there is an even larger chance of violence. The call for recount has to come from a groundswell to have any chance of real success.
Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism
Venturing out because one of the Doorbusters! at PetSmart is cat litter. Otherwise, only if hubby runs out of something essential during Friday Baking.
OK, maybe to Northern Tool for adjustable wire shelving.
I’d love to go mall walking because Pokemon Go, but not gonna happen.
Pogonip
@Elizabelle: Why especially not Macy’s?
Comrade Scrutinizer
@Jinchi: This.
bemused
The wisest decision for many of us to avoid being around toxic conservatives as much as possible over Thanksgiving holiday really pays off. Spending our time with family and friends who give us joy and rational conversation is vital to shoring up our defenses against gloom and depression. I have no doubt that the majority of Americans are horrified about a Trump America and it will not stand. I liked the headline of Keith Olberman saying America will kick Trump ass.
We had to laugh about Trump surrogate saying Elton John would perform for inauguration. Elton promptly said no way, get Ted fucking Nugent.
satby
Time for me to get cracking on all the stuff I didn’t get done so far because tomorrow it’s back to work for me. Website updating, laundry, and much later after the crowds are gone a trip to the grocery store. Much much later.
Yoda Dog
@OzarkHillbilly: No question the Russian and FBI interference were factors and probably put him over the top. But I remain stunned that 57 million people voted for that know-nothing, draft-dodging, cowardly, disgusting, vulgar, mysoginist piece of shit because our candidate used a private server for her emails. I just cant deal with that in any rationale way despite my best efforts.
dww44
@Hal: Well, I’ll still take him as SoS over John Bolton and the like any day of the week. However, based on my TV this morning it is apparent that the GOP base is up in any arms so it probably won’t happen. We should be grateful to the GOP base for the immense good that they’ve done for the country in the last 2 1/2 decades.
Betty Cracker
My kiddo went to an “early” Black Friday event at a Kohl’s store yesterday evening. She sent pictures of the insanely long line to get in. She got some good deals, but it can’t possibly have been worth dealing with that scrum for discounted items, IMO.
She gets the bargain hunter gene from her grandmas, I guess. Wild horses couldn’t drag me to a mall or big box store this week.
Thanksgiving dinner went well. My turkey, gravy and dressing were all good. I was a bit worried about the dressing (stuffing) recipe because I hadn’t made it before, but it turned out nicely.
My sis got into one abbreviated text message election argument with our wingnut aunt. We vowed to be ready to take on the whole crew in tag-team fashion next time we visit Deploraville.
ThresherK
Anyone else wondering why the internet’s not already exploding with the twin memes of PBO and HRC asking
Hal
@D58826:
One other thing that does occur to me is that Romney may be hoping to pull a John McCain by working with Trump all the while hoping and expecting he blows it completely and is out in 2020. Then Romney presents himself as the “sane” Republican everyone should have gone with in the first place.
The problem is that McCain lost, in part because he was attached to the Bush admin. I can’t imagine Trump being anything but far worse than Bush II and everyone attached may find themselves untouchable. Seems like bad gamble on Romney’s part.
But as I’m typing this I’m remembering; Romney is the guy who ran against Ted Kennedy and said he was to the left of him on gay rights, supported the right to choose, endorsed and campaigned for Romney care in Mass, and then completely abandoned all of his social positions when he realized he couldn’t be the GOP candidate without a complete 180. So it’s business as usual for Mitt.
Lizzy L
Avoiding most of the local stores today. I need groceries, so I’ll have to do that. My local thrift store is having a Black Friday 50% off sale, so I may go — or I may not. Otherwise, I’m ignoring the whole thing.
@OzarkHillbilly: Good thoughts for you! Here’s hoping it’s no big thing.
Steeplejack (tablet)
@Betty Cracker:
“Deploraville” made me laugh. I used to live in Doraville. Very close in every way.
D58826
@Poopyman: I’ve seen several articles that as far as Putin is concerned spreading doubt and confusion about the election is a win. So whither they actually hacked into the election is irrelevant. Even if der Fuhrer had lost but had continued to complain, and believed by his supporter, about the system being rigged would have been a win for Putin.
So yes do the recount/audit to make sure that the votes were at least counted right, i.e. 1000 names on the polling place list = 1000 votes counted. This does not mean the votes weren’t hacked. I think the best we can hope for at this point is the judicial reasonable doubt standard.
Then going forward work to make sure that the chance of this type of hacking is reduced to a minimum (and yes given our system a pink unicorn in every garage is more likely.
I keep reading that given our decentralized system it would be extremely hard to pull off this kind of a hack. This may be true but it also may be a failure of imagination. Putin and the KGB may have found a weakness that no one every thought of. It was conventional wisdom that German tanks could not get thru the Ardennes forest until they did in 1940 and then incredibly again in 1944. Or you could bring down the Trade Towers with a couple of box cutters.
D58826
@Yoda Dog: and those same folks seem to be totally ok with Gen Flynn and his illegal internet connection.
InternetDragons
@dww44:
Regardless of his many deficiencies – not least is the fact that his first allegiance will always be to his church, and that takes priority over country or anything else – Romney is at least sane. He won’t become Secretary of State, though…because Putin feels he’s too anti-Russia. There are already articles all over the Russian press protesting the idea of Romney as SoS.
And because apparently one of our new roles as the U.S.A. is as a satellite nation for Putin, I kinda doubt Romney will be SoS.
OzarkHillbilly
@Yoda Dog: I’m still waiting for the calls to prosecute Condi and Colin.
.
.
.
.
.
.
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA….
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Tom Nichols is a paleo-conservative, anti-Trump Repubilcan
D58826
@Hal: The GOP base barely accepted him in 2012. With the dumpster fire still burning in 2020 they would not accept him to be the victim at a tar and feathering party.
Poopyman
@D58826:
Maximize your success by limiting operations to swing states. Analyze the aggregating methodologies in those states and find the weak points. It’s not like elections spring up overnight. With months to prepare, there are a lot of possibilities.
comrade scott's agenda of rage
@NeenerNeener:
Pense is evil. He’s a card-carrying member of the American Taliban. I guess it comes down to which column of evil one prefers, the Trump Column or the Pence Column. Also too, he’s a pretty dim bulb on good days, hence the “Mike Dense” moniker you’ll see tossed at him quite often.
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/jurisprudence/2016/10/cowardly_extremist_mike_pence_is_the_perfect_face_of_the_gop.html
As others have said, the GOP ain’t gonna impeach Cheetoh Donnie. Never. Their weaponized stupid base is all they have left and if they try to take him out, that’s at least 27% of their support that won’t come back anytime soon. Also too, some senators, my odious Roy Blount being one, owe their reelection to the man. I saw the Buzzfeed news editor on TDS. He was here in Misery the night of the election and Blount’s crowd expected him to lose despite the state going to Cheetoh Donnie. The fact he outperformed even the most optimistic estimates here did have coattails. Thus, even if the House pulled the impeachment trigger, much like Clinton, it would die in the Senate.
Paul in KY
@raven: I had a Lexus SC300 back in day. Very well made car. Had it for years, till it started to decline a bit (from age) & sold it to a young man. I heartily endorse Lexuses as fine automobiles.
gogol's wife
@Yoda Dog:
You express my feelings exactly.
Paul in KY
@Patricia Kayden: Don’t the authorities have to open some kind of criminal investigation? What could Ms. Clinton do on her own? File suit in civil court?
Edit: Can see you would need to request a recount or something like that. Hope she does that.
ruemara
@BillinGlendaleCA: actually, no. They hammer us on all fronts. They never stop, they never waver, they never fail to turn up to vote. They’re not single-minded on one issue, they’re completely devoted to destroy anything liberal more than liberals are devoted to keeping them at bay.
gogol's wife
By the way, I’m not sure if everyone remembers this, but when thousands of people took to the streets in Moscow in 2012, it was because of a stolen election. Stolen by whom, I wonder?
Taylor
@Hal:
If Trump were removed from office, his replacement (Pense) would become a lightning rod for the Trumpista outrage. Assuming that there are constitutional doubts about either the Senate president pro tempore or the Speaker of the House taking over as President, one could see a path for Secretary of State becoming President. It would be good positioning for the political jockeying that would ensue.
D58826
@Poopyman: Oh I agree. KGB has been destabilizing elections for 100 years. They can read a swing state map as well as any one, as well as use they same key precincts that the networks use to call the winners.
In addition from what I’ve read they can design malware that erases itself once the polls close so there are no fingerprints.
The larger point of course is just the fact that we are talking about it reduces peoples faith in the process. And that is a win for Putin. He is playing the long game. Anything that introduces instability/doubt, no matter how slight, into the view of American leadership in the world is a win.
In the case of Trump, whatever Putin’s role, he has won the World Cup/World series/Stanley cup and super bowl all in one shot.
henqiguai
@BillinGlendaleCA(#55):
I’ll see your ‘just started work’ and raise you ‘my eldest, being the store’s manager, had to show at her store last night at 23:00 and is on duty until noon today’; an Abercrombie property in a local mall. Retail really does blow chunks
InternetDragons
@Taylor: Nitpick, but it’s “Pence”, not “Pense”.
Anyway, I had that thought about Romney as SoS, too…but that is a very convoluted path to the presidency, and I suspect that the people who currently (try to) control Trump would find a President Pence to be much easier to manipulate, so they’d have no reason to look any further. There are lots of jokes in Washington about how dim-witted Pence is, so he’d be a useful tool.
D58826
Ok here is a new nightmare to consider. What if the electoral college functions in the way the founders really intended and decides to vote independent of the election outcome. They decide that Hillary is the better choice and vote for her. Constitutionally she is now the winner. Then what?
The left doesn’t like the idea of a Trump presidency but, at least in this country, is not into 2nd amendment solutions. The right on the other hand is already primed for violence so if the EC flips to Clinton…….
While I don’t think it will happen there are some people pushing for just that EC outcome (not the violence part)
Schlemazel
Penis?
Schlemazel
you meant Penis?
Citizen_X
@satby:
Making comparisons to the time before Year Zero is going to be verboten. You’re on notice.
gogol's wife
@D58826:
that’s pretty far down on my list of things to worry about. Not gonna happen.
gogol's wife
@satby:
This is the feeling in the pit of my stomach all the time. We’re entering a very dark time.
Brachiator
@BillinGlendaleCA:
Not really true. But what one thing would you hammer home?
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@BillinGlendaleCA:
The Right just hammers because they are scared stupid.
Brachiator
@D58826:
Not gonna happen. The GOP and Democrats would have to make a backroom deal to signal the Electoral College.
But the Republicans decided to roll the dice and go with Trump no matter what.
rikyrah
The Hill ✔ @thehill
Secret Service could be forced to pay millions to rent space in Trump Tower
rikyrah
Donald Trump and the Rise of Alt-Reality Media
You think the truth took a hit last year? It’s about to get worse. A lot
By CHARLES SYKES November 25, 2016
Earlier this year, I argued that the conservative movement did not merely have a Donald Trump problem—it had a media problem. As Trump slouched toward the nomination he was backed by a conservative media that had successfully created an alternative reality bubble around his candidacy. When Trump claimed that “thousands” of Muslims in New Jersey had celebrated the attacks on 9/11, for instance, callers to my show lined up to provide supporting evidence the only source of which was an echo chamber of partisan bloggers; listeners chimed in with evidence they had seen on Facebook linking Ted Cruz’ father to the JFK assassination. Of course, we know the origin of that “evidence” was the National Enquirer. Crowd-sourcing has its limits.
As a #NeverTrumper, I had hoped that the election would prompt a moment of reckoning and introspection, not merely about conservative values but also the role of the conservative media. As someone who has spent much of his career promoting conservative values on my radio show, I was depending on it.
Clearly, that is not going to happen now. In fact, it’s going to get a lot worse.
Trump’s victory means that the most extreme and recklessly irresponsible voices on the right now feel emboldened and empowered. And more worrisome than that, they have an ally in the White House. For years, Rush Limbaugh has gibed about what he calls the “state-controlled media”—the fawning liberal news outlets that Limbaugh has long decried for their lack of critical coverage of President Obama—but we may be about to see what one actually looks like—an alt-reality news outlet operating from within 1600 Pennsylvania Ave. The new media will not only provide propaganda cover for the administration, but also direct the fire of a loose confederation of conservative outlets against critics and dissenters. Already, Fox’s Sean Hannity has urged Trump to freeze out the mainstream media and talk directly to the nation.
henqiguai
@D58826 (#86):
whether. Drivin’ me to drink…
rikyrah
@SiubhanDuinne:
RIP, Mrs. Brady.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@NeenerNeener: To get 2/3 of the Senate they would need Democrats.
D58826
@Brachiator: I don’t think it will happen either but there is at least one opinion piece in WAPO making that argument. I also saw a couple of references to electors wanting to be allowed to vote their choice.
But then Trump wasn’t supposed to happen so nothing would be a surprise at this point..
Along with the 25th amendment solution where Pence and Congress declare Trump incompetent and remove him from office.
It is a sign of how well Putin has succeeded in de-stabilizing the political process that any of these scenarios are being floated about.
rikyrah
@Patricia Kayden:
I wish that she would challenge it too.
cmorenc
@Hal:
The difference is that if Romney had run again and defeated Hillary by a similar margin as Trump, we would all be disappointed with some of the important policy implications, but we wouldn’t be shitting bricks either about a malevolent incompetent either. Some of Romney’s policies would make us angry, but we could at least sleep at night.
Davis X. Machina
Shouldn’t the EC, if it bolts, bolt for Bernie?
I mean, there’s an opening here for the Authentic Voice of the People to finally be heard, and we’re going to blow it?
Schlemazel
@henqiguai:
I am not a grammar nazi
I am anti alt-write
Schlemazel
@rikyrah:
Where do we go for our Wessonality now?
Botsplainer
@InternetDragons:
So now that we are an official Soviet satellite, I’m assuming that it will suck to be poor, a minority, in a less numerous religious sect or subsect, a woman or poor gay. Life will be great for wealthy white dudes, straight and gay (looking at Peter Thiel).
And the straight porn and lesbian porn will be awesome, so we got that going for us, which is nice.
Schlemazel
@Davis X. Machina:
FYI – you forgot to put a snark tag on that post
Brachiator
@D58826:
If people seriously believe that Putin changed the election and do not force a recount, then they should move to another country immediately, because democracy in America would be dead. There would be no reason to accept any future election result.
I think that people believe crazy stuff because they are stunned by the reality of the Trump victory, not by fantasy conspiracies.
D58826
@Brachiator: Didn’t say he changed the results. Just that with the wikileaks, dnc/podesta hacks and the false news sites that seem to have been based in Russia, the process has been ‘ruffled’ a bit.
Citizen_X
@OzarkHillbilly: You know we’re in a new era when the last defenders of the free world are “German Spies.”
Brachiator
I woke up at a late (for me) 7 am. Nothing much planned for today. Took a quick look at online deals, not really in the mood. On my way out for a morning walk and some breakfast.
Work will soon get intense, so I savor a lazy day.
trollhattan
@gogol’s wife:
The irony being decent people aren’t equipped to envision just how dark. Recalling we thought VP Cheney was a continuation of SecDef Cheney, not the new Dark Lord.
Brachiator
@D58826:
Fair enough. I take your point.
And with that, I’m off the Internets for a bit.
Everyone have a good day if you have the day off.
Citizen_X
@Brachiator: I don’t think Putin hacked the election, I think Putin is sabotaging democracy–here and elsewhere–via disinformation, the selective release of information, and people’s own gullibility.
ETA: Or, pretty much what D58826 said.
Schlemazel
@Brachiator:
Amazon has the Anova immersion sous vide circulator on sale for $100 (50 bucks off regular). I have been putting it off because they are kind of expensive but really wanted on because meat is a problem for me since the radiation. I broke down & bought my Colander Day present this morning.
Looking for things to do to get out and around today. A good day to stay away from the mauls but not great weather for being outside.
tobie
@D58826: There are going to be a few, lonely Republican voices out there protesting Trump (Charles Sykes, Tom Nichols, for instance) and everyone else will pretty much fall in line because with Trump the Republicans are getting their wet dream: the privatization of every government function. The only thing that could stand in the way of this are the media, and they’ve shown themselves to be stupid and spineless, and like the privatization crowd their only interest is the defense of private interests over public functions.
D58826
@Brachiator: good plan. easier on the blood pressue
D58826
@Citizen_X: Which doesn’t mean he would not do it or at least try to do it if he thought he could get away it while maintaining plausible deniability.
And if nothing else getting citizens of a country looking at the other party as quislings rather than the loyal opposition.
The Ancient Randonneur
So Arizona and Maine but no Vermont? Why is the minimum wage in Vermont only $9.60/hour? You would think a former candidate for the Democratic nomination for President would have a little more influence with progressives in a very left leaning state.
dww44
@Elizabelle: Well, I know that my betters here and at LGM are very disdainful of Jill Klein and the Green Party’s effort to challenge the voting outcome in 3 battleground states. But, I actually like it as it is not being done to overturn the election outcome, but to protect voter integrity. Stein and one of election/computer experts both were on my CBS evening news last evening explaining why they are undertaking this effort. Also her effort takes HRC off the hotseat.
To date, Stein’s campaign has raised close to 5 million dollars to file for recounts in Wisconsin (deadline today), Pennsylvania (Monday) and Michigan (Wednesday). I supported this effort.
rikyrah
Maddow had a segment on Wednesday about the last time that there was such a disparity between the popular vote and who was President.
wait for it……..it was the election that ended Reconstruction. I just pursed my lips and went Uh Huh.
D58826
@dww44: if nothing else it checks off one of the ‘if we had only’ boxes.
Botsplainer
@dww44:
It is being done as a self-serving grift. Tofu Barbie is a disgusting piece of trash, and European and Russian Greens are befuddled by pretty much every goal of stupid fucking US Greens. Every gain is rolled back – EVERY. SINGLE. FUCKING. ONE.
So now it is back to ineffectual drum circles, giant puppets and parades while a filthy fucking piece of shit like Stein gets phat stacks…
opiejeanne
@JPL: Had my appendix out on wednesday, let me go home yesterday morning.
James Powell
@Davis X. Machina:
Bernie should call a press conference and announce who his VP would be. I’m thinking it’s obvi Dr. Stein, but YMMV.
rikyrah
NPRVerified account
@NPR
BREAKING: Dylann Roof ruled competent to stand trial for Charleston church shooting. Jury selection to start Monday.
opiejeanne
@OzarkHillbilly: Yes, I’ve been to a doc. Spent Wednesday night at the hospital,having surgery.
Kathleen
@The Ancient Randonneur: That would require “effort” and dealing with “The Less Pure”.
James Powell
@The Ancient Randonneur:
Where they just elected a Republican governor.
Schlemazel
@opiejeanne:
the upside is that you didn’t have Thanksgiving dinner of hospital food! Take care & heal up
Botsplainer
@rikyrah:
It IS South Carolina, so there is a nonzero chance of acquittal and a subsequent appointment to run the DOJ Civil Rights division…
dww44
@Botsplainer: @Botsplainer: I’ve read all the dismissals of Stein’s motives and the Green Party’s efforts. Maybe it’s just me, but I view this as a possible first step towards really doing something meaningful about changing our election system to insure that we have elections which have not been compromised in any way. I’m not out a whole bunch of money and if the Green party’s efforts result in some additional clarity about what happened on November 8, then I view this as a positive.
I’ve probably related this before, but after the 2000 election, my state decided to scrap all the voting mechanisms in all 159 counties and went out and bought Diebold voting machines for every voting precinct. The same machines are still in use 14 years later. I’ve asked poll workers in the past if there is a paper record of my vote and they gave me such blank looks that I had confirmation that there is none.. Election and computer experts insist that the only safe and reliably trustworthy voting is done via paper in one form or another.
The window of opportunity to address the integrity of the votes in 3 states is closing fast and I hopped on board the effort. I don’t regret doing so.
Ohio Mom
@Botsplainer: you forgot the disabled in your list of who will suffer most.
When the pillars of support are hacked to pieces — SSI, SSDI, Medicaid — it will be back to almost the Middle Ages in standard of living for anyone too disabled to support themselves (Medicaid doesn’t just pay for health-related expenses for people with disabilities, it also pays for basic living expenses).
When I consider my kid’s prospects, I am immobilized. Then I multiply that by all the other families with members with disabilities and I can’t even.
Botsplainer
@Ohio Mom:
Losers and moochers.
It will be a real eye opener to the Trump voters in the Downs community to watch their supports fall off. I’ll almost enjoy it.
laura
@rikyrah: grifters gotta grift.
Inflated market rates no doubt.
Botsplainer
@dww44:
It is just you.
If a Green says the sky is blue, I doublecheck – grifting and lying is what they do.
There’s continued income in permanent agitation – incrementalism is anathema to the continued income of those at the helm of that shitty group.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Damn, Rudy is even more unglued than I thought
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Botsplainer
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Berlusconi wasn’t like that. This is more like Saddam.
Peale
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: couldn’t happen to a nicer fellow.
Botsplainer
Oh, and I won’t read The Hill now that they gave a gig to Pam Gellar.
SenyorDave
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Report: Trump team wants Romney to publicly apologize to be considered for Secretary of State
Donald Trump is a racist sexual predator who is a lying con man. Does this mean if I want to work in the federal government I have to apologize for this remark?
dww44
@Botsplainer: Well, obviously, it’s not just me. Now maybe all of us( like Moveon.org and Democracy for America) who’ve climbed on board are naive Pollyannas, but I’ve never viewed the Green Party as composed solely of evil grifters. Besides which, it’s my understanding that addressing election integrity is something they’ve long done. It’s not like they just created this cause for the sole purpose of enriching their coffers. I choose to take them at their word. They stepped into the breach when no one else would.
Joyce Harmon
@D58826:
Yes, it would be bad, probably very bad. But as I’ve said before – there are a lot of heavily armed angry bigots in this country. And I still think it would be more hopeful for the future of the nation as a constitutional democracy, not to mention for the world and the survival of civilization, if those heavily armed angry bigots are rampaging AGAINST the US president, rather than in SUPPORT of the US president.
If you’re unsure of that, consider the alternative. Imagine that a President Trump proposes, say, a roundup and internment of American Muslims, and a closing of all US mosques. And the Republican Congress blocks him. What do those heavily armed Trump-supporting bigots do now? And how does official law enforcement respond to rampages that have been instigated and encouraged by the President?
Botsplainer
@dww44
Then you’re a fucking moron who needs your knuckles crushed so you can’t type on the net. “Stepped into the breach when no one else would” after her campaign?
Jesus…
opiejeanne
@Schlemazel: This is true. I was told by one of my nurses that they had a turkey dinner planned for those of us who could eat it; They let me out at 10am, long before our bird went into the oven, and by 11am other people had taken over my kitchen. I did feel well enough by noon to make and roll out pie dough for two pie pans. The kids did all of the rest.
mai naem mobile
I am guessing they’re holding something on Romney – his taxes ? – to get him to apologize just so that Trump can humiliate him. Rmoney might be a rich asshole but Trump is ten times a bigger asshole and just a nasty mean selfish stupid narcissist. It must kill hIm that Romney is better looking,with a full head of hair, and smarter than him.
artem1s
@NeenerNeener:
and his colleagues hate him almost as much as they hate Cruz. I think the really big tell if they attempt to take this route is who gets the VP appointment. The Trumplestiltskins will be enraged anyway and if Ryan uses this as a platform to put one of the hated GOP ‘insiders’ in power the mob might become a real problem for them. Also, NYers are having a hard time with the $ spent on his protection as it is. That’s going to continue even if he is removed from office. If Ryan manipulates the 25th to put one of the usual suspects in power, say JEB, then things could get very very interesting.
mai naem mobile
If I was Romneu, I would comw up with some BS family excuse,to walk away and recommend somebody that you know doesn’t agree with Trumpys views just to fully fuck withe them.
artem1s
@Hal:
Romney is a narcissist too. More issues with awkward social interactions; less issues with being vile, odious, prurient, and venal. Watching the two of them try to steal attention from one another could be quite entertaining, in a thoroughly horrific way.
D58826
@opiejeanne: march of progress – my dad in 1940 was in the hospital for 3 weeks. and in 1957 I was in the hospital for a week, and swore the entire time I’d never walk upright again.
D58826
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: said this before but if these people keep digging, the Chinese will file a protest that their territorial integrity (as well as their women) has been violated.
opiejeanne
@D58826: Yeah, I was swearing, just swearing yesterday, every time I cough.
My husband spent 9 days in the hospital in 1981 when 24 hours is the norm for appendectomies. His case was really bad, his appendix had ruptured 3 days earlier and he was still walking around; they said it was a slow leak. I dunno, but he was in surgery for 5 hours when it usually took about 45 minutes.
Hal
@cmorenc:
I would have been hugely disappointed but not in a I wish I could hope a Rocket to Mars way I am with Trump. But Romney vacillates so much it’s hard to know where he would have ended up if he had run and won. I still think he’s eyeing 2020 though.
SWMBO
@opiejeanne: My SIL had his appendix rupture three weeks before he hurt bad enough to go to the doctor. He went septic and went into the hospital on Good Friday. They did the surgery on Saturday before Easter. He was in the hospital with 2 IVs running 4 types of antibiotics for 9 days. Now when he says something is bothering him, we all jump on him to go to the doctor. This last month he went to the dentist for the first time in a few years and found an abcessed tooth that needs an implant. Wasn’t really hurting him, just a little discomfort.
D58826
@opiejeanne: Whole different ball game once it ruptures.
SWMBO
@OzarkHillbilly: Have them check for tick diseases. My mother lives near you in DeSoto and in 2011-2, she was dying. They checked her for everything. She was bleeding internally and they did 3 or 4 GIs to see if they could locate the source of the bleeding. They sent her to a cancer specialist and a hematologist. She was hospitalized 6 or 7 times that year. In September I pulled a tick off of me and several off my dogs. One of the dogs was diagnosed with ehrlichia. The vet told me to watch for blood in her extremities (Blood in urine, stool or nosebleed). Bells started going off with my mom having nose bleeds, internal bleeding, etc. Looked it up and it is zoonotic. People can get it. My mom had every damn symptom. She went to the doctor and asked for the test for ehrlichia test. It takes over a week to get results (the dog takes 45 minutes). The doctor had never heard of ehrlichia before. She had to look it up and find the proper treatment. Three days after my mother started doxycycline, she called me and told me she thought she was going to live. It took 9 months of antibiotics to get her back on her feet. She has started having breathing problems and was diagnosed with COPD by her previous doctor. The new doc said if she has had ehrlichia, it was like chicken pox coming back as shingles. Ehrlichia hides in bone marrow and can flare up again. It attacks red blood cells and prevents them from forming normally. The new doc doesn’t think there’s anything wrong with her lungs, just her red blood cells. So she may be on treatment again after other tests are run.
You live in the tick capital of North America according to the CDC. And there are over 200 tick diseases you can catch. They checked my mom for Lymes disease and it came back negative. There was a man in Festus that was in the paper around this time that went almost 2 years with undiagnoses Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever. He was on antibiotics for over 2 years for that. Get tested for this while you’re having other things checked.
dww44
@Botsplainer: Do you feel better because you’ve pigeonholed me as a “fucking moron”? I certainly tried to proffer my arguments in good faith and in a civil manner, but apparently your animus towards Stein and the Greens brooks no arguments to the contrary.
Steeplejack (tablet)
@dww44:
Tempers are flaring because many people are (justifiably) angry about this morning’s news.
dww44
@Steeplejack (tablet): Thanks. I was actually aware of this all day and I don’t recollect it being different from what I read last night. Perhaps it is political opportunism on Stein’s part, but the wording seems to be tenable for me. This is what’s there now:
https://jillstein.nationbuilder.com/recount
Steeplejack (phone)
@dww44:
This is problematic. As commenter Kay has pointed out, in the past the Green Party’s post-election protests and challenges have done more harm than good and have mainly served Green Party fundraising.