Site Trump got his illegal voters lie from also says Giuliani blew up Building 7 soooooooo……
— Zeddonymous (@ZeddRebel) November 27, 2016
These tweets by Trump are a great example of the silliness of “don’t fall for his tweets, he’s trying to distract you.” This shit is serious
— Dana Houle (@DanaHoule) November 27, 2016
A responsible observer can do both!
President-elect Donald Trump falsely claims in bizarre tweets that "millions" voted illegally for Clinton: https://t.co/MtJjIWtdSi
— People Magazine (@people) November 27, 2016
Focus on Trump's business. Follow the money. Ignore the tweets. Focus on Trump's business. Follow the money. Ignore the tweets. Focus on Tru
— David M. Perry (@Lollardfish) November 27, 2016
Why do people posit this false choice? It’s like saying focus only on Nuremberg Laws but ignore Nuremberg rallies. https://t.co/JS2jcAj8qg
— Dana Houle (@DanaHoule) November 27, 2016
New Trump rule for press: When the president says something clearly false, the story isn't the lie he's saying but why he's lying.
— Schooley (@Rschooley) November 27, 2016
smintheus
That should have been the rule since, oh I don’t know, time immemorial.
ThresherK
Calgary recovered a fumble in a nice spot but unable to do anything with it, they convert a FG and it’s 27-10 Ottawa.
For those of you wondering, no, no “singles” yet. But there was a rugby-style fumble.
Trentrunner
Going to quibble here:
“Lie” means knowing falsehood.
It’s entirely possible that Trump truly believes that millions of voters voted illegally, costing him the popular vote victory. (Trump’s source would be Alex Jones’ Infowars.”)
Should Trump know better? Of course. But, short of evidence, we don’t know that he does.
So I’d like to reserve the word “lie” for when we have evidence that the speaker knows different than what he says.
PhoenixRising
People magazine, leading in hard-hitting honesty since…6 weeks ago.
As to the rest of our media: Why aren’t they asking the people who are still in a position to stop this lunatic whether THEY endorse his bizarre lies? Such as, I dunno, members of the electoral College?
The 4th estate could still save us but time is short and they have miles to go to change their mindset from ‘follow the shiny object’ to ‘what options remain available for the republic?’
Baud
@Trentrunner: You’re probably fighting a losing battle. “Lie” is often used as a substitute for “wrong” these days. Also for broken promises.
Major Major Major Major
@Trentrunner: Given that it’s impossible to know what’s truly in somebody else’s mind, I’m fine just calling him a liar.
smintheus
@Trentrunner: Trump clearly is insinuating that he knows his claim is true. That makes it a lie. An honest (if credulous) person would say “Alex Jones claims…”
Doug R
@ThresherK: The head of the CFL made an assinine statement regarding concussions and long term brain damage AFTER the NFL admitted a link.
Plus the BC Lions aren’t in it so thbppppt!
SiubhanDuinne
Maybe I’m stupid, but I have no idea what this means:
What does it mean?
Eural Joiner
Just spent a wonderful week with my daughter who has been interning in the White House this fall – an amazing, wonderful experience, heartbreak and all!
Bad news: she lives with other interns who all work on Capitol Hill with R congress critters. They’ve all been put on phone duty with scripted responses to calls about SS, Medicare/Medicaid and the election. They’ve been told not to worry about keeping records or counts, the reps don’t care right now.
Trentrunner
@Baud: You lie!
Major Major Major Major
@SiubhanDuinne: Trump got his “3 million illegal voters” lie from Infowars, which also thinks 9/11 was an inside job.
Frank Wilhoit
It’s not who’s falling for Trump’s tweets.
It’s whose tweets is Trump falling for?
Roger Moore
I think the @Rschooley quote is the best point. I also don’t think he’s always tweeting for the same reason. I think he’s sometimes doing this to create a distraction, but sometimes he’s clearly doing it because he’s personally worked up about something and has to get it off his chest. I think the thing about the popular vote is clearly in the second category. It’s also important to look at the crazy places he’s getting his information, and it’s clearly important to question whether he’s going to continue to depend more on Infowars, et. al. than on official government information channels.
Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (Formerly Mumphrey, et al.)
@Trentrunner: Who gives a shit? It’s like asking if somebody’s a racist. People would say that Strom Thurmond wasn’t really a racist. He himself liked Black people, but he used racist pitches to get elected. But so what? Who cares? He said racist shit and fucked a lot of lives over. I don’t really care why he did it. Spouting racist shit he didn’t believe so he could win elections isn’t any kind of a defense.
In the same way, who cares whether Trump knows that what he’s saying is a lie, or if he doesn’t care whether what he says is true or not, or if he truly believes the horseshit he’s spewing? Whichever it is, he’s spreading untruths, or, as we sometimes call them, lies. He gets no pass from me just because he might be dumb or delusional enough to believe this shit.
Schlemazel
@SiubhanDuinne:
It means that the source of Trump’s bullshit is a group of people who believe the then mayor of NYC is responsible for blowing up building 7 of the WTC. i.e. they are fucking insane and unmoored from any reality normal people would understand.
HermanNewticks
As much as I like to think he’s merely a buffoon, his buffoonery seems to have served him well (to our great misfortune). A comment in the last thread said if he believed this, he should be directing the DOJ to investigate as soon as he takes office. But that’s the last thing we should call for. His “offhand”, self-serving tweets and the beliefs underlying them will be the justification for full scale, federal government led voter suppression. I would expect it on a scale that would make members of the G.W.B. administration blush. Expect Hans von Spakovsky to be back in vogue any day now.
James E Powell
First lesson from this disaster – Asking or demanding that the press/media tell the truth about Trump will have no effect on the press/media or Trump or Trump’s supporters.
We will have to come up with a better idea.
lamh36
Can’t frown with Zoe around…
#NiecyZoe ???
#Kisses
Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (Formerly Mumphrey, et al.)
@HermanNewticks: Oh, he is already. I know people who have linked to lies von Spakovsky has written to “prove” that voter fraud is a problem.
mk3872
@SiubhanDuinne: The 3M illegal immigrant voters came from Alex Jones & InfoWars, the same site that claims that 9/11 was a huge government conspiracy and building 7 is part of that 9/11 paranoia:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9/11_conspiracy_theories
Roger Moore
@James E Powell:
Maybe not today, and maybe not tomorrow, but potentially some time. It took years of the right wing yelling at the media complaining about bias to train them to their current reflexive deference. It’s going to take equally long for us to break that training. Might as well get started today, even if it will take years to pay off.
burnspbesq
@HermanNewticks:
Von Spakowsky is surplus to requirements if you have Kobach already on hand.
jenn
Hey Anne Laurie – something that I think would be a great weekly post would be a dedicated thread every Friday where folks could talk about some of the things that we’re doing as we work to bend that arc of the moral universe towards justice :*). Give folks ideas, and celebrate forward progress at whatever scale!
SiubhanDuinne
@Major Major Major Major:
@Schlemazel:
@mk3872:
Thanks, all. Once I went back and read it again it became
clear. One of those sentences that goes all ambiguous-like when you can’t tell adjectives from nouns or nouns from verbs. I can read it clearly now, thanks, and it makes sense.
Well, as much sense as anything is likely to make in the next four years.
Major Major Major Major
@HermanNewticks: @burnspbesq: Indeed. The same Kobach who ‘accidentally’ held a document mentioning the National Voter Registration Act in front of the cameras the other day.
SiubhanDuinne
@lamh36:
Awww! Kisses ??♥️??♥️? back at Zoe!
hovercraft
@Trentrunner:
Please stop making excuses for this moron. It chose to run, other morons voted for it, and now it needs to stop shit. How I’m not sure but FFS, it needs to just grow the fuck up.
divF
@lamh36: Such a sweetheart!
HermanNewticks
@burnspbesq: Too true. Better dig out old election law notes and renew the ACS membership.
rikyrah
@lamh36:
She is so adorable
a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)
@lamh36: Most adorable!
Kay
Things like this make me laugh now. I know that’s bad. It’s just that it doesn’t matter if he’s clearly mentally unbalanced (which he is). Not one bit.
I thought something would happen if we elected someone like this- there would be some “official action”, some PLAN.
I’m getting used to the idea that no one is “in charge”. The crazy person just moves inexorably towards enormous power and we all sort of wait for something really bad to happen.
Michael G
Trump’s not tweeting outrageous garbage to distract us.
He’s tweeting outrageous garbage because he has always tweeted outrageous garbage.
Sometimes it’s just that simple.
Major Major Major Major
@Kay: Pretty much. Our institutions are just polite fictions, with a few exceptions like the military.
DCrefugee
@Kay:
You misspelled “constitutional crisis”…
At some point the adults need to step up. But some bad shit is going down until they do.
Peale
@Kay: Fuck that waiting. I’m buying gold and stocking up on cream style corn.
Denali
Just realized that Trump has 16 million followers. He knows what he is doing very well. He is destroying public trust in the voting process. He is shameful.
danielx
@HermanNewticks:
I am somewhat surprised he has not already been offered a DOJ position.
Peale
This isn’t really “News”. The idea that there was no voter suppression and if it was only necessary because Hillary found 3 million illegal immigrant voters has been going around awhile, and was the basis for the belief that the election would be “rigged.” The 3 million part is constant.
SFAW
@DCrefugee:
“Adults”? And who would they be? I hope you aren’t thinking anyone in the Ruling Party in Congress would actually “step up.”
Major Major Major Major
@danielx: The night is young.
@Peale: It’s kind of news that the president-elect and future commander in chief of the armed forces of the united states of america is spite-tweeting it, though.
Adam L Silverman
@SiubhanDuinne: At the World Trade Center. Alex Jones believes 9-11 was done by the US government. In the case of the Twin Towers that means that then Mayor Guiliani was in on it.
dww44
@burnspbesq: Great comment!
Trentrunner
@hovercraft: Your weekly: fuck off.
Trentrunner
@Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (Formerly Mumphrey, et al.): I share your emotion but not grasp of distinctions in definitions. :)
Joyce Harmon
@Roger Moore:
Especially considering that he is REFUSING the government intelligence briefings that he is being offered!
danielx
@Kay:
Oh yes. Not to sound corny, but it feels like we are at one of those cusps where nothing that happened before is anything like what is happening now or is going to happen in future. Our past has not prepared us, and in future many things will be totally different than they have been during our lifetimes. Like 1860, or 1914, or 1933, or 1939, or 1945 – my, what cheerful prospects present themselves.
Adam L Silverman
@Peale: And .22 lr. That stuff’s going to be worth its wait in gold!
SFAW
@danielx:
Well, aren’t we optimistic.
Botsplainer
Few of you guys actually get it – we’re well and truly fucked. We were fucked from the time when it became popular and mainstream to disdain having people who understand and are interested in running the government actually run the government.
It all comes back to that. All the peaceful engagement and dialogue in the world are great, but without a few crunched rightwing heads, our gains are ethereal.
I’m trying to come up with ways to sell my services to the PRC. That government is far more normal than ours.
dww44
@jenn: I fully support this idea. I’ve been as down as I can be and this place got bad enough yesterday, but, I swear, LGM just made me so depressed that I had to depart. I have to keep reminding myself that the rest of the country is NOT paying attention and are apparently unaware what a threat to our country Trump presents. Otherwise they’d be depressed too.
So, I will get this idea off to an early start by saying that I posted a response yesterday to an insane LTE (see last thread) published in my paper on Wednesday. We shall see if it gets published, because it was long. I’m hoping they might post it as a “You say” sort of letter that gets more space and attention.
A friend and I are attending the monthly Democratic Party meeting on Monday week. We live in a minority/majority city and the official party apparatus has long been pretty much in the hands of AA voters, which, frankly, is as it should be. But hopefully there’s gonna be some energy there and ideas for moving forward and some new and younger faces than mine and my friend who are grandmothers. But we want to DO SOMETHING!
ThresherK
Okay, ESPN2 just cut away live from the last minute of the Grey Cup. It’s 10:00pm. There are
millionsscores of us screaming into the heavens asking, What happened?ETA: The scroll says “Technical Difficulties”.
EATA: Now we’re back. Calgary behind by 3 but at about the Ottawa 6 with several snaps to go.
Timurid
@Adam L Silverman:
OK… we’re talking a pewter lining in an EF-5 here… but I thought the ridiculous hoarding of .22 and 5.56 might stop now there’s no more OBAMA’S COMING FOR OUR GUNS AND AMMO…
Major Major Major Major
@Adam L Silverman: Just don’t buy in California or the government will know who you are.
amk
from eight years of smarts and sanity to this. well done, murkkka
Steeplejack (tablet)
@ThresherK:
At least it’s not Heidi.
danielx
@SFAW:
Not especially, although I hope and trust that someplace, the better angels of somebody’s nature prevail in the event that Trump is really and truly off his rocker. Which in all likelihood will be become evident the first time he’s faced with a serious crisis, and given his nature if there is not a crisis he will create one. I do fear for the lives of many.
PhoenixRising
@Major Major Major Major: speaking of…what would you who are firearm literate recommend I buy and teach my teenage daughter to use for home defense?
The Dane is aging out of that role, we may not be able to replace her with a like item, and I’m not feeling like trusting our local cop shop to come when she calls.
Don’t want anything that can be carried on anyone’s person–the whole point is that the other guy knows you just chambered a round.
Open to advice; the blogs on this are…lunatic.
ThresherK
Calgary converts a FG, and we are going to OT!
Adam L Silverman
@Timurid: Well there’s never been a real shortage of .223 Remington and/or NATO 5.56. The AR platform rifles – sure, because everyone freaked, bought several of them, and hoarded them. So the cheap and midrange ones wound up scarce and costing what a higher end one normally would. The higher end ones pretty much just kept their prices, both the true custom builds (the really expensive ones) and the semi-customs where you’re basically personal preference tweaking a high end, but still mass production rifle.
.22 lr, however, saw a huge run on it. It was very, very hard to find, and from reports still is, in a lot of places. Apparently there is less excess manufacturing capacity for .22 than there is almost anything else. My guess is there’s less profit in the caliber.
Darkrose
@lamh36: She is so adorable!
Adam L Silverman
@Major Major Major Major: I’ve been to California four times. Each time for a conference. First San Diego. Then San Francisco. Then Los Angeles. Finally, San Francisco again. I’ve never even considered buying ammunition in California.
Adam L Silverman
@PhoenixRising: Email me offline.
danielx
@Timurid:
Now, now – that’s not hoarding, that’s stockpiling and/or creating caches. 200k rounds just aren’t enough, or so they tell me.
Major Major Major Major
@Adam L Silverman: Because we’re so awesome and you felt all warm and fuzzy and safe?
Jeffro
@Kay: @Major Major Major Major:
I get that things feel out of control, feel like we don’t have any power here, or that our institutions feel like ‘polite fictions’. But please let those feelings pass and come join in the fight here. We’re only powerless if we choose to be. Our institutions are only as weak as our participation and commitment. Jump in, do whatever you can to reach out and make your voice heard, and be happy warriors in this rebellion.
Major Major Major Major
@Jeffro: I can walk and chew ankle at the same time.
evodevo
@PhoenixRising: Pump-action shotgun. Unmistakable sound.
jeffreyw
They will ram through the changes they want just as fast as they can because even if at some later time Trump is declared cuckoo bananas or just strokes out those changes will stand. That Scalia replacement will still be on the court.
ThresherK
Ottawa wins! Third year expansion team takes the trophy.
I feel great for Henry Burris (I’d rather he’d won it for the Roughriders a few years ago…). Still, he’s the oldest QB to win it ever.
burnspbesq
@HermanNewticks:
Speaking of memberships, some anonymous patriot has offered to match up to a half million bucks of year-end contributions to the ACLU.
Go Here
EZSmirkzz
Here’s a link you may find interesting Anne.
The previous piece was pretty informative too.
Have to add, “when they banned Imagine then the war became the same as the one when were kids.” DBT
Adam L Silverman
@Major Major Major Major: I generally feel safe pretty much everywhere.
PhoenixRising
@Adam L Silverman: Did. TIA for any hints.
Lyrebird
@dww44: GO YOU! and some of your younger neighbors, too — I say with fingers crossed. My first “do something” thus far has been to send a few coppers to Obama aka Organizing For America . So lost re: what to do next – join the ACLU, the NAACP, the Planned Parenthood PAC… I’m not sure I can do all these things, but yes I’ve gotta do something.
ThresherK
@EZSmirkzz: Everything from Jay Rosen goes on my “vital” list.
This fellow could have basically sealed his critique of campaign press coverage in cement on Labor Day and (with the exception of the out-of-nowhere James Comey shit) it would have been correct, no matter the election’s outcome.
SiubhanDuinne
I have two entirely unrelated questions for the Juicetariat hive-mind:
1. I have never held, let alone used, any kind of firearm in my life. (I can hardly tell at sight a Mauser rifle from a javelin.) But now, for the first time in my nearly 75 years, I am wondering if I would be wise to acquire and learn how to handle a gun. I don’t like the idea, but I also don’t like what I see coming down the pike, and if I can be prepared for mayhem, maybe I should be. Any thoughts or advice?
(B): I know someone, very slightly, who presents as transgender/androgynous. The person’s name is Sam, which could be either gender. Neither voice nor appearance gives me a clue as to his or her preferred identity. I don’t want to make unwarranted assumptions and I don’t want to ask possibly offensive questions. My guess is male transitioning to female, but again I don’t like to assume. This is new territory for me. I guess my main concerns are in what pronouns to use in referring to Sam, otherwise I don’t care one way or the other. I feel like an extra in the old SNL “It’s Pat!” sketches. Again, any thoughts or advice?
Adam L Silverman
@PhoenixRising: Let me go and pull it up. You’re going to get a response from my regular email, I’ll forward your reply to my main account, Give me five to ten minutes and we can get the conversation started.
Ruckus
@Eural Joiner:
Those reps are probably worried about their own lives now. If they are dems then they know their constituents are pissed, and want blood they can not provide. If they are repubs they are trying to figure out how far up drump’s ass they have to stick their heads or how hard it will be to stand on the outside. The one’s that ever gave a shit that is. The other ones are busy rubbing their hands, hoping to get in on the action.
Major Major Major Major
@SiubhanDuinne: Just call them Sam. If you get the chance, ask politely. If you don’t want to do this, then they’ll probably let you know their preference at some point. ‘They’, obviously, also works. (Of course I could be wrong on all these counts.)
seaboogie
@Adam L Silverman: “Oh, The Places You’ll Go” (or not, as the case may be) to buy ammunition!
Major Major Major Major
@seaboogie: I imagine Reno and other California border towns will become popular places to buy ammo. Fun on a bun.
Emma
@SiubhanDuinne: On 1, we’re having similar thoughts. On “b”, why don’t you ask Sam? If it were me, I would rather someone ask than get it wrong. But as you say, it is potentially offensive so… is there anyone else trustworthy to ask?
CaseyL
@burnspbesq: Thanks! – just donated.
Ruckus
@PhoenixRising:
A pump 12ga shotgun. Racking that makes a noise that every burglar except the completely methed out ones knows as “not a good sound.” And if you have a reason to actually fire it, aiming is almost optional. You will however do a lot of damage to part of your house and quite possibly people, pets, and/or things you don’t want to do that to.
On the other hand the number of people who don’t own guns and get along just fine so far outnumbers the ones who don’t that statistically, owning a gun is worthless.
You asked, you have been warned.
Another Scott
@evodevo: Joe Biden recommends a double-barrel shotgun (1:21), also too.
But one should only have a gun for “home defense” if one keeps it locked up, and if one is trained on how to use it (and is willing to do so).
Cheers,
Scott.
Major Major Major Major
@Ruckus: A shotgun won’t go through nearly as many walls (between zero and one) as a rifle or pistol will, as an added plus.
EBT
Come feel the economic anxiety. https://twitter.com/AdrianKLee/status/801583215639232516?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
Adam L Silverman
@PhoenixRising: Reply should be in your inbox!
Adam L Silverman
@SiubhanDuinne: Email me offline on the first one. I can’t answer the second one, but let me see if I can scare up one of our commenters who can!
ThresherK (GPad)
@SiubhanDuinne: Go to robot-hugs, a webcomic in a semiautobiographical manner, about many things (including trans identity, ally-ship, and cats). It’s a great way to absorb things about talking with transfolk before you actually do it. If you are as introverted as I am, that’s a big plus.
PhoenixRising
@Ruckus: Thanks for the advice.
Funny story about that: The only person I know in my hood who has FIRED a gun for home defense (vs relying on the racking sound) shot it right through her own bedroom door. Kids who planned to rob her ran away looking for new pants because they had not accounted for the prospect that a hollow core door wasn’t good cover from a shotgun.
Major Major Major Major
@EBT: I’d seen that quote before but hadn’t noticed about the ‘N’ thing. (I saw “I for one would welcome a white association for the advancement of colored people” as the joke.)
Yikes.
burnspbesq
@efgoldman:
Compared to Trump’s Krackpot Krewe, Lindsey Graham looks like a grownup.
Think about that for a second.
SiubhanDuinne
@Emma:
It looks as though a lot of us are having similar thoughts on 1.
On (B), I’m not sure how to phrase the question. I’ll figure it out, no worries, and thanks for responding.
SiubhanDuinne
@ThresherK (GPad):
Ooh, thanks, will do. Cats a bonus.
Ruckus
@SiubhanDuinne:
How about “Sam?”
If you don’t know a person’s name and can not tell the gender, does it really matter? I say excuse me and ask my question or make my point. We add gender identifiers for politeness, I suggest that you can leave them off for the same reason.
On your first point. I don’t suggest a gun, even given my answer at #87, as that should be taken as quite tongue in cheek. It is a dangerous thing, to have a loaded weapon that can be stolen or taken away from you and used against you. And even if it is stolen and not used against you, it can be used against others and someone else can die. As I’ve said here before I carried a loaded weapon in the navy and it does not provide a sense of power or a sense of safety. It is exactly the opposite, because if you are a reasonable person, you don’t want the responsibility of their death. I know men who killed others while in the military and while they mostly felt it was necessary, not one of them felt good about it. Ever. I also know a cop who killed a man who was attacking him with a large chefs knife. He wasn’t happy about having to do that and will live with it for decades.
SiubhanDuinne
@Adam L Silverman:
Thanks, email incoming in the next few minutes.
Major Major Major Major
@SiubhanDuinne: I believe something like ‘what are your preferred pronouns’ is the correct way to ask it to a person you know to be trans/nonbinary/nonconforming. Not sure what you do if they’re ‘just’ androgynous though.
ETA: Oh yeah, and remember, for some of us with particular psychological afflictions, the most likely victim of the gun you own is you.
Adam L Silverman
@seaboogie: Online is your friend. Also, in bulk. But you didn’t hear it from me. Also, I was never here!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2TrW8jR8EM
Adam L Silverman
@SiubhanDuinne: Same thing as I told PhoenixRising, I’m going to forward it to my primary and reply from there.
Major Major Major Major
@Adam L Silverman: Yeah right, you’re obviously an FBI sting op.
Aardvark Annie
@Trentrunner: sweet.
hovercraft
@Trentrunner:
I wasn’t aware we had a weekly thing going. I’ll play GFYS.
Schlemazel
@Ruckus:
The other advantage to a shotgun is that it is very unlikely to injure a next door neighbor. A handgun or rifle bullet could easily pass through walls & hit somebody sleeping in their bed. a shotgun pellet won’t do that.
I read a thing from FBI statistics about home invasion shooting & the most are at a distance of 9 feet & involve 3 shots being fired. Assuming one or more of those came from the invader at that distance the shotgun is going to spoil their aim a lot.
OTOH the stats are you are MUCH more likely to die from your own gun that use it to defend your home.
seaboogie
@Ruckus: @Major Major Major Major: @SiubhanDuinne:
About owning a gun for “proctection”. It’s funny, but also pointedly true.
Here is part two….https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9UFyNy-rw4
I will NOT own a gun, or give the fear that leads to that a place in my head.
Adam L Silverman
@SiubhanDuinne: Initial response should be back in your inbox.
Adam L Silverman
@Major Major Major Major: Funny email coming your way!
Original Lee
I think I’m going to end up with a concussion from banging my head on my desk so much. Just had to leave a group because they were seriously discussing (as in, they accepted the statement as likely true) whether or not Hillary being Hitler’s illegitimate daughter was enough not to have voted for her.
FWIW, I did try to point out that not everything on YouTube is true, but got nowhere. Wikipedia is now apparently too liberal to be trusted.
seaboogie
@seaboogie: Here is part two, that I couldn’t add because I cannot figure out how to add another link in an edit
Adam L Silverman
@seaboogie: I just want to make clear I’m not advocating for it. But I have, because of what my work has been in the past, enough experience here to get people asking the right questions for themselves before even considering a purchase. I’m agnostic as to whether someone should or should not own one. And that’s whether its for self defense, sport shooting, hunting, what have you.
SiubhanDuinne
@Ruckus:
Yeah, I do address Sam as “Sam.” And as I tried to indicate in my original query, no, it doesn’t matter to me except in third-person references. It’s not a big deal except that it’s a new world and I’m not entirely sure of my footing.
As for the guns, you have summarized exactly why I have always been reluctant to own one. I guess my broader concern is, what steps can I take to ensure (to the extent that is possible) my own safety in these uncertain times? I hope I’m overreacting, but OTOH I don’t want to be a victim of my own naïveté.
Adam L Silverman
@Original Lee: I just don’t see her having the facial hair for that. But what do I know.
SFAW
@SiubhanDuinne:
“Hey, what’s ‘Sam’ short for?” might work. Or not.
amygdala
@SiubhanDuinne: I would ask Sam directly what pronoun(s) are preferred. You’re a love for thinking about this.
Another Scott
@Original Lee: Wow. I hadn’t heard about that one. The things I miss… :-/
Sorry about your having to cut them loose.
Too many people seem to think that it’s impossible to have a disagreement with someone simply as a result of having different thought processes or different rankings of what’s important. No, if someone is wrong about something, it’s a reflection of their deeper character and means that they’re evil. If they’re evil, it’s because they’re possessed by the devil, just like Hitler or Stalin.
We’d all be better off if we weren’t in a society that too often mixed old religious beliefs which masquerade as science or reason with politics.
(sigh)
Cheers,
Scott.
(Who was going to add a “helpful” link about how common demonic possession is, but thought better of it…)
seaboogie
@Adam L Silverman: I understand, Adam – and appreciate the very thoughtful and reasoned ways in which you share your knowledge and experience, either publicly or privately. The M*A*S*H bit was funny….
seaboogie
@SiubhanDuinne: I’d go with the javelin for two reasons:
a) the element of surprise (it’s like the Spanish Inquisition, that way)
b) you’ll totally tone your arms practicing
Schlemazel
@SiubhanDuinne:
I own a couple of rifles & 3 shotguns I have used in the distant past for hunting. I have not had ammunition for any of them for many years but I am having the same internal struggle you seem to be having. It is Trump and his Nazi’s, they have reasonable people all on edge. I don’t know what I am going to do.
One thing people who get guns really never take into account is if you bring out a gun you have to be prepared to use it. Seriously and quickly you have to decide before it comes up that you are willing to kill without hesitation and live with the consequences, both emotional and legal. If you pull a gun and don’t use it the odds of you dying are now greater. If you do use it and were wrong you are in deep shit. Right or wrong you live the rest of your life knowing you killed another person. I think a lot of gun humpers never give these ideas even a fleeting thought. Their imagination is formed from too many movies. That affects how they think the encounter will go and what the post encounter will involve.
satby
@Schlemazel: I’ve mentioned that my late father was a homicide cop in Chicago during the 60s to early 80s. The statistics @Schlemazel: quotes are accurate.
My dad didn’t think guns belonged in a “civilian” home after a career of investigating the mayhem family members with too much booze and a too handy gun inflicted on each other regularly. And the dead children who found an adult gun.
True story: I was nearly shot by the homeowner of the house I was house sitting for, even though I was coming in the front door using the key. And I could be seen through a glass window, though it was dark.
Nope, I never allowed guns in my home either.
Lyrebird
@seaboogie: Thanks for the video links and the javelin suggestion. Between laughing and watching Zhang Junhao reruns linked over there my mood is better. (Toddler child/dancing sensation)
seaboogie
@satby: I hear you. Also the reason I don’t keep knives in a knife-block on the counter.
Adam L Silverman
@seaboogie: No worries. I know some people get very touchy about the questions of guns. I grew up in a family that did not have them – for self defense, sport shooting, and/or hunting. Just wasn’t the family thing. Dad, who grew up in Colorado, had some basic knowledge. I had done the hunter education course at sleepaway camp when I was 10 or 11, and gone to the range with some friends a couple of times for basic instruction in my mid 20s, but that was pretty much it. Then I was recruited to do a type of work that would require proficiency. And I prefer to be overtrained, not under. So I paid out of my own pocket for the range time and ammo for myself and my instructors beyond what was covered in our predeployment training (and yet no one thought to show me how to take a damn M9 apart…). And since I’ve been asked at least once a year since 2011 if I’d be willing to deploy, if only for a few months, I make sure I maintain my proficiency. And a lot of that is I came to this late – when I was 37 – and I’d rather be over prepared and not a danger to myself or anyone working with me than underprepared and a danger to myself and anyone working with me.
satby
@satby: Another story: Borrowed a cottage for a getaway when my kids were small, along with friends. We had been in the place barely 5 minutes when my 5 year old son appeared in the kitchen carrying a very real rifle he had found under the bed.
I carefully took it from him, unloaded it, and then tore the place from top to bottom to make sure there weren’t any more surprises.
Dad was top gun in the police academy, and I learned to properly handle, shoot, and unload and lock guns away. I’m not afraid of them, but I’m pretty clear of the risk in having them around.
SiubhanDuinne
@Schlemazel:
This. All of it.
I’m still mostly thinking I’m probably not a good candidate as a gun owner. Even with training (and I wouldn’t for one moment consider acquiring a weapon unless I had good training) I’m not sure I could make that shoot to kill decision. I just don’t think it’s me. But with things as unsettled as they are right now, I’m also not willing to just curl up in a helpless little fetal ball. I guess I need to investigate a range of appropriate self-defence measures and make the decision that’s best for me.
Adam L Silverman
@seaboogie: As for the MASH bit, that actually came up once in a staff meeting. You had to be there. And fortunately the Boss had a great sense of humor.
SiubhanDuinne
@seaboogie:
LOL ?
Adam L Silverman
@Schlemazel: Your second paragraph is spot on. Here are the standard questions I ask anyone/everyone who asks me about this stuff:
1) Do you, your spouse/SO (if you’ve got one), or anyone else that might be living with you (child/children, room mate, parent) think that if push came to shove you could bring the weapon to bear and shoot it if necessary? If you all can not answer yes without qualifications, you shouldn’t get it. Having it and being unable to use it is as bad, if not worse, than not having it.
2) Are you, your spouse/SO (if you’ve got one), or anyone else that might be living with you (child/children, room mate, parent) willing to commit to proper instruction and training in the use and maintenance of a firearm?
3) Do you have a plan to secure the weapon, but in such a way that it is accessible when needed?
4) Do you want this only for home defense or are you planning on conceal carrying it?
ETA: And this is child/children above a certain age. I’m not talking about four year olds.
satby
@Schlemazel: you have this right.
Too many of them are fantasy Dirty Harrys. And when it turns out it’s not at all like the movies lives are lost, wasted, ruined.
Lizzy L
I strongly recommend this article. It is particularly helpful and informative for those who have never dealt with narcissists. It explains why constantly mocking T. and re-tweeting his tweets are bad ideas. Here’s the author’s introduction.
https://medium.com/@nziehl/coping-with-chaos-in-the-white-house-697fa2ca3ddf#.5qxe9f2y4
Schlemazel
@satby:
Having kids is one of the things that kept me from owning bullets for a time, then it was just habit. I have never had a home defense fantasy but something, I can’t quite put my finger on what, changed a couple weeks ago and suddenly I have these paranoid fears of needing to protect my home from marauders. It is a powerful anxiety even if my rational self knows it is paranoia.
seaboogie
@Adam L Silverman: When I lived in Canada, I considered following my husband into the film business in the props department, which requires that one has a license to carry and operate a firearm. While entertaining that hurdle, the seductiveness of having that power in my hand gained a small purchase in my adamantly anti-firearm mind.
I worked one episode of The X-Files as a props assistant, and one of my jobs was to make sure that we got all the semi-automatic guns back from the extras at the end of the night. Happily, there was a firearms expert on hand, and the extras were non-active duty soldiers who had a healthy respect for guns. Haven’t touched a firearm since then.
Adam L Silverman
@seaboogie: Tracking. Healthy respect, including fear of what they’re designed to do, is important in safely handling them. I’m not talking about fear of them as an inanimate object – its not going to sit up and shoot itself. Rather the fear is of what its designed for. And for what happens if, as a result, its not treated/handled with that in mind.
Ruckus
@SiubhanDuinne:
We are all probably overreacting. OTOH…. we know that congress as it stands wants to end SS, Medicare, Medicaid, really any money that is outgoing that they consider “entitlements.” They don’t give a shit about their constituents, or anyone who is not a benefactor to the continued existence of their grifting careers. The shit-gibbon is salivating over getting back at anyone who in any way has slighted him, even if only in his tiny little mind. He is, I believe suffering from dementia, and we all know how well that worked out for the last asshole we had as president with that. And at least that one knew at one time how to act like a somewhat reasonable person, even if he wasn’t one. This one has no clue. About anything.
My point is that we can all see that the shit is going to hit the proverbial fan, we just don’t know how deep we will be buried in said shit. I’m trying to figure out how to just survive, even if everything stayed the same. It won’t of course, we just don’t know if our worst fears are coming true or if it will be some variation. The only bright light I see is that a lot of the people who voted for this asshole will be suffering right along with me and I can say, “Fucking serves you right, you fucking morons.”
satby
@Schlemazel: the thing is, most home invaders would be kids burglarizing for stuff to sell. They don’t want to be in a house if someone is home.
And some people disagree, but flat screen theft isn’t a capital crime.
The reality is that crime is down; well except for the recent uptick in hate crimes.
Roger Moore
@DCrefugee:
What adults? There isn’t anyone with special power to step in, take charge, and set things right. First we expected the Republican powers that be to stop Trump. Then the other Republican candidate were going to pull together to stop him. Then Hillary was going to show what a joke he was. Next it was the voters who would see through him. At every step, people have expected somebody else to do the hard work. That’s not how it works; we all have to do what we can and stop expecting somebody else to do it for us.
Lyrebird
@Adam L Silverman: Yeah – thank you for articulating this so clearly. @Schlemazel: Sadly, various people were busy when I was a teen/young adult proving that a crime victim with a gun is less likely to survive the crime encounter than one without a gun, perhaps because people supporting themselves via violent crimes might be quicker on the draw than those they prey upon.
I have friends and relatives who hunt, and I have relatives who got trained in how to use a gun precisely to be someone who knows what to do if some child finds one in the theater/vacation house/whatever. I can respect all of these; I don’t have ammosexual/Nugent-happy friends sfaik. Personally I can’t understand my friends who happily play paintball or gun-style lazer tag with their friends or their kids. The military folks I worked with before changing careers were much more “let’s avoid fire if at all possible” types than “let’s shoot as much as possible” types.
Anya
@Denali: Most of his followers are fake accounts
Schlemazel
@Adam L Silverman:
There is a regular feature (though I do not always see it so it may be more sporadic) on KOS that recounts the accidental gun deaths every week. It is a great antidote to “The Armed Citizen” page in the NRA’s magazine. Every week there are multiple deaths caused by children under age 3 Ever. Week. Multiple. Deaths. Shooter younger than 3. Then there are a bunch of accidental/stupid shit shootings from ages 4 to 104. Dozens every week. Almost all are handgun related but they mix in a fair number of long gun screw ups. Some are so stupid I think the shooter (if they lived) should be jailed for their own safety. Many are just careless of a lack of training.
@satby:
the first thing the Dirty Harry’s of the real world don’t understand is people rarely die the way movies show. A 12-gauge blast is not going to send someone flying 3 feet backwards for instance. Then also they never show the consequences, Harry never has a moment of doubt or regret and, of course, he never shoots the wrong person or has the worlds most powerful handgun fire a slug that blows on past the bad guy & hits the 6 year-old having ice cream with grandpa at the corner shop.
Ruckus
@Schlemazel:
As I’ve said here and on BJ many times before. I carried a loaded gun on security patrol on board ship. I had orders to shoot to kill if necessary to protect the ship. Many others in the military have been in the same boat. It is instilled in you that if the situation arises you do shoot. I thought then that I could if the situation warranted but from many people that I’ve known, two things are true. First, you never really know how you will react until you are actually in a situation and even if you’ve been there before, you may not be able to act the same again. Second, that truth about yourself and your taking another life, lives with you forever. Unless you are not a reasonable person, and are one who has little value on life, then none of this matters one fucking bit. How many reasonable people do you know? How many unreasonable? I went to HS with a girl who has spent 40+ yrs in jail for murder. I’ve had food at her home, we went to the same church. She was very reasonable for a while and then, she wasn’t. It doesn’t take nearly as much to make that change as one might imagine.
Adam L Silverman
@Schlemazel: Yep. The 2nd Amendment absolutists claim the numbers are much lower. It is what it is.
Schlemazel
@satby:
Add to that one of the most easily fenced items a burglar could take is a gun. Owning a gun has a ton of down sides. That is my rational mind speaking. My lizard brain is whispering about Nazi’s roaming our streets
Lizzy L
@Schlemazel: About three years ago, my neighborhood was targeted by a burglary crew. It appeared to be the same two men who over the course of six months broke into and robbed a whole lot of homes. They hit the house next door to me, and one across the street. They kicked in doors and forced open windows, but only when no one was home. They took portable electronics (laptops, phones, Play Stations), cash, jewelry, IDs. They left desktop computers and flat screen TVs alone. Oh, and they took guns, when they found them. Quite a few of my neighbors have guns, and there was a lot of grumbling about the burglars and how they would got shot if they entered so-and-so’s house: but no one got shot. The burglars watched and went into houses when there were no people in them. What seemed to keep them out, FYI, besides people in the house, were metal security doors, multiple Beware of Dog signs posted in conspicuous places, and deep-voiced indoor dogs.
SiubhanDuinne
@Lizzy L:
That’s very interesting and potentially very useful. Many thanks for the link. Have bookmarked for future, and I fear, all too frequent, reference.
satby
@Ruckus:
My dad believed it was possible for any person, even good ones, to snap, and in one horrific minute destroy their own and lots of other people’s lives. The stress of seeing that day after day I’m sure contributed to his own death at the young age of 54.
Adam L Silverman
@Lizzy L: Dogs, especially those that bark and sound scary doing it, are always a good idea.
Lizzy L
@Adam L Silverman: I have a 60 lb dog who sounds extremely scary. And multiple signs. And security grills on all my doors. But there are no guarantees.
satby
@Adam L Silverman: I’ve had people who were reluctant to come near the door or up the steps because they could see and hear my 100 lb lab-pit mix inside. And Hershey would have ferociously attacked with big slobbery kisses if they had ventured inside, but I never really told anybody that.?
Schlemazel
Good night all.
In a potential ironic twist the missus has surgery tomorrow to repair “trigger finger’ a condition where the sheath around tendons in the finger do not function properly and her fingers lock half closed. I’ll be home caring for her for a few days (heaven forefend the insurance companies should pay for a day or two in hospital while she can’t use her dominant hand). My mood has been better and I may just be more active here.
One question this thread has been making me think about is what can someone do short of buying a bazooka to defend ones home & health is the stinky stuff did hit the whirly thingy. We have something around a month or more of food on hand & could stretch that if need be. It might be worth a thread or two to talk about safety without guns simply to calm the paranoid sensation that guns are THE answer.
Adam L Silverman
@Lizzy L: No there aren’t. But unless someone is really committed, a professional burglar looking for a very specific item, a dog is a good deterrent. As are good locks.
Schlemazel
@Lizzy L:
We were burgled 30 some years ago. They took the TV, rifled the medicine cabinet for meds and my hunting rifle & shotguns. They hit 5 homes, all unoccupied at the time. That does seem to be the preferred MO.
Adam L Silverman
@Schlemazel: I’ll do a post tomorrow or the next day on this. I’ve actually done professional security assessment work. I even published something on it too!
Adam L Silverman
@Schlemazel: And we’ll keep good thoughts for your wife’s surgery and recovery.
satby
@Schlemazel: Best wishes to the missus for a quick recivery! And glad you’re feeling better.
Another thing we might consider talking about is if things go very bad, and folks need places to stay or roomies or whatever, how we can help there. Mary G has always been my hero for stepping up for Higgs.
Edited to add: Goodnight all.
Lizzy L
@SiubhanDuinne: I found it very helpful.I have dealt with at least one narcissist in my professional life. He was ultimately asked to leave the organization of which I was an officer: he behaved in an unprofessional and unethical manner, and a complaint was made. Interacting with him was like falling through the looking glass. He was charming, persuasive, talented, he had fooled a number of very experienced people. Fortunately one of the people on our Ethics Committee was a clinical psychologist, who recognized immediately what we were dealing with, and educated the rest of us.
He is currently a law enforcement officer.
Lizzy L
@Schlemazel: Best wishes for successful surgery and swift recovery!
Adam L Silverman
@Lizzy L: So a happy ending all around then…
Ruckus
@satby:
Sorry about your dad. We need cops. But we need them to really understand what I did on that ship. If you are a reasonable human, you will never, ever forget that death you caused and how easy it was. We are animals. Full stop. Our survival is paramount in our brains, as it is in all animals. It is society that can give us the opportunity to temper that, to realize that we don’t have to kill to survive, other than for food. And even then we don’t have to do that as individuals. But that tempering is overlaid on the survival instinct. And in a society such as ours is today, that tempering is being lost. Take this discussion. People who have lived for decades without guns are considering them. That is the survival instinct in action. We have to learn to accept that temper and to pass it on so that we don’t have to live in fear and hate. A country (and a world) with this many people can not continue to think that killing is the only way to survive, not in the modern era of weapons that don’t just kill one person every minute or two, but can kill dozens in the same time.
satby
@Ruckus: Word.
And thanks. He died in 1989, but he obviously was the major influence in my life and thinking.
Lizzy L
@Ruckus: Word. And thank you.
SiubhanDuinne
@Lizzy L:
Jesus. I’m about to go to bed, and you want to give me nightmares like this?
I don’t think I’ve ever had to deal with a full-blown NPD person. I’ve known more than a few who align on some of the specifics, but Trump is the first person I’ve ever observed who seems to tick all the boxes. Unprecedented in so many ways.
Glidwrith
@SiubhanDuinne: FWIW, I have heard two things are considered effective: a dog and hornet spray. The dog can be a trained noisemaker. I understand because the hornet spray is meant to act at a distance, it is far more effective than pepper spray and you can have canisters in every room.
Ruckus
@satby:
As was mine. Which would have amazed teenaged me quite a bit I think. A lot of things my dad did and said took time to gel for me. But the one thing I noticed early on was that he treated me with respect as a human being, not just as one of his kids, even at a pretty young age. I’ve seen other parents do that as well but I’ve seen many more that didn’t. And I think it was important.
Adam L Silverman
Shiny and new overnight open thread with topical music selection is up.
sukabi
@SiubhanDuinne: it means that they claim that after the planes slammed into the twin towers and they were burning / falling that ghouliani made a call to bring down building 7, which did come down, but was not hit by the planes.
rikyrah
@Steeplejack (tablet):
My mother loved to tell me that Heidi story.
Feebog
@SiubhanDuinne:
SD, you and I are close in age. I handled rifles and handguns in the Army, but have never owned a gun for personal protection. What I have owned, all my adult life, are very large. very loud dogs. I have owned mixes, German Shepherds, Huskies, and Labs. Currently we have two Golden/Chow mixes. They are both in the 65-80 pound range and if you approach our house they will make you believe they will tear your head off. In reality, they are both very sweet mutts once they know someone is ok. We do that by escorting the person into the house and letting the dog get used to them. Dogs are smart, no escort equals stranger, equals barking furiously.
rikyrah
@SiubhanDuinne:
If, in your heart, you don’t think that you can fire a gun, don’t. There are other means. Pepper spray and tasers.
fuckwit
@Roger Moore: in a democracy, the adults is presumed to be us. that means, we organize, educate, agitate. there is no other alternative.
SWMBO
@SiubhanDuinne:
1 IF you got a gun, who would you kill with it? Not just bad guys. Not just someone unknown. Who would you kill with it? The gun won’t care who it kills. Ever. If you can’t kill just anyone with the gun, don’t bring it in your house. You may be rational and sane now, but if something happens and suddenly, you aren’t, that gun is still going to be there, ready to kill anyone. Not just the one you thought you could kill when you bought it but kill it can still kill anyone. My son has psychotic breaks and he suddenly changes from a sweet, autistic person into a raging killing machine because the psychosis is stronger than reality. We have guns in our house that he doesn’t know exists. They are hidden and unloaded. When Trump was elected he asked if we were going to get a gun. I told him no, that Trump wouldn’t come into our home and hurt us. He was going to hurt people through cutting food stamps, denying medical care and taking away their Social Security. “Oh, he’s just going to be an asshole.” Yeah, you pretty much nailed it. I’d be more fearful over Trump and crew cutting vital services before needing a gun for self defense. It’s ok to be afraid but try to keep it real. There are real fears that something bad is coming. It probably won’t be armed insurrection. More like bounce checks. (That’s more Trump’s style).
b. Ask. I asked when someone who I thought was pregnant when she was due. She wasn’t pregnant. Oops. I find it’s much easier to just flat out tell people I’m feeling awkward and don’t wish to offend but how do you want to be addressed? Do you prefer he or she since I’m not very good at guessing things. Even if they tell you they aren’t trans but they want to be addressed as he (or she), thank them for telling you and making it easier for you to deal with. The burden of awkwardness should be on you. Which you can then put to rest.
Patricia Kayden
@hovercraft: It can’t grow up. It’s supposed to already be a grown up. It’s going to be a disaster.
J R in WV
@SiubhanDuinne:
Building 7 is a NYC tower that fell down hours after the twin towers fell, without being hit by a fully loaded airliner. The idea that it was deliberately dropped by someone is a conspiracy theory not believed by any major analysis. It was struck by major pieces of one of the falling skyscrapers which damaged the building severely.
The implication is that the illegal voters story is another false news story intended t make Hillary’s ever larger popular vote victory look suspicious and illegal, rather than a true indication of the majority of Americans opinion of Trump’s viability as President.
Anne Laurie
@Feebog:
Caveat on a dead thread: Dogs can be an excellent home protection choice, but BIG LOUD DOG has its own problems.
While I was assisting at basic ‘household pet’ obedience-training classes, I saw too many people — mostly older people, but also petite women, and a few kids with over-optimistic parents — get their hearts & sometimes their bones broken because they (or their relatives) got ‘a big dog’ for protection. A dog who weighs 60+ pounds, even the gentlest Golden, can knock a small human or one with balance issues arse-over-tip even if the dog just wants to be friendly. And even if Big Dog doesn’t accidentally put Granma in the hospital with a broken wrist/rib/hip, a dog who’s too enthusiastic or undertrained to know better is *also* a danger to the neighbors (Dog ‘gets past’ owner at front door, dashes into street, driver trying to avoid dog hits a tree. Dog pulls away from elderly owner, jumps up to ‘say hello’ to neighbor, neighbor ends up in the hospital w/tailbone fracture & family/insurance company sues owner. Eight-year-old, struggling to control the half-grown puppy-mill dog his parents chose — kids need to learn responsibility! — lets go of lead, dog runs into busy street, gets hit & dies horribly in front of eight-year-old.)
And one of my favorite dog-people-are-crazy stories: Elderly little fella, Melvin, bragging on how gorgeous his huge purebred rescue lab is, what a wonderful dog, “Can you believe some idiot would give such a dog away, just because the wife got pregnant and couldn’t deal with him?”
“Melvin, in the first few months after you got him, Stony [accidentally] broke your wrist, he pulled so hard!”
“And also my wife’s rib, yanking her down that staircase, don’t forget! But when you’ve been married as long as I have, you’ll know: Every relationship requires compromises!”
(His wife was there, and found it funny, so I don’t feel guilty retelling this.)
Anyways… if you’re not physically strong, or can’t be absolutely sure you’ll have the time & energy to give a big dog the exercise it will need… most casual housebreakers & even muggers will be just as deterred by a small-to-midsized dog with a big bark. There’s a reason so many toy dogs have outsized voices — along with their other companionship tasks, Maltese and Bichons and Lhasa Apsos [‘lion bark’ dogs] and toy spaniels were supposed to raise a big noise if their ‘person’ was under threat. Since miscreants don’t want attention, a smallish mix who takes loud objection to a home invasion or a threatening stranger can be a much better deterrent than a big dog who’s locked in the yard or the basement because the poor thing is simply ‘too much dog’ for its household!
Central Planning
@burnspbesq: Just renewed with that link. Thanks!
Princess
@Trentrunner: So you’ve come up with a foolproof way to determine someone’s inner thoughts have you?
When Trump says something untrue, call it a lie. Let him defend his inner state if he wants.
Matt McIrvin
@SiubhanDuinne: Currently favored etiquette, at least among the young’uns, is to ask what somebody’s preferred pronouns are. It’s not considered offensive.
Second many other people here on guns for home defense. It’s intuitively appealing to think “things are going to hell, I need a gun,” but it’s far more likely to be a danger to you than to someone who means you harm.
Matt McIrvin
@satby:
And a gun is a valuable thing they can steal!
satby
@Anne Laurie: All also very true points.
Larkspur
@SiubhanDuinne: I don’t want to get a gun. I don’t think I need one in the area where I live, and I’m afraid an intruder would either find it first or manage to wrestle it away from me. But I would like to know more about guns, and have been thinking about going to a gun range for instructions and practice, so in the event someone comes at me with a gun, or there are guns in a crowd, and one gets dropped, I’d like to know how to use it, or at least how to not misuse it, from the get-go.
Larkspur
Also, I’d like someone to invent a dog barking “alarm” that you can set like a regular alarm, maybe also have it be motion activated, so that you can reap the benefits of the sound of a truly vicious trained killer dog without actually having one. Because not everybody can have a dog or a big noisy dog, and also in a home invasion, your real live dog could get killed first thing. Meanwhile, I may start practice-barking while I’m by myself in my car on the freeway.
Matt McIrvin
@Larkspur: It might also be interesting for liberals to do some more judicious infiltration of the US gun culture, to try to dissociate it from extreme-right politics, disregard for safety and general paranoia (though I suppose the people most likely to do this might just be left-wing paranoids).
I have no real problem with (legal, regulated) hunting or shooting sports, but if one is using guns in these ways it’s easier to take common-sense precautions to avoid killing yourself or someone you love. When you’re accumulating weapons to defend yourself from imagined home intruders suddenly bursting in on your family, the opposite is true.