Secret Service code name: Chauncey Gardiner pic.twitter.com/gPujZ37Zc3
— Schooley (@Rschooley) November 29, 2016
Usually when people say a politician is crazy, it just means they don’t agree with his/her policies. Donald Trump, on the other hand, is outside all the ‘usual’ norms. While I don’t want to (further) stigmatize those with genuine mental health issues, our best strategies for surviving the next four years may be to use the metaphor of personality disorder as a framework to deal with Trump. Which is why, I think, N. Ziehl’s Medium post is being passed around right now. “Coping with Chaos in the White House“:
I want to talk a little about narcissistic personality disorder. I’ve unfortunately had a great deal of experience with it, and I’m feeling badly for those of you who are trying to grapple with it for the first time because of our president-elect, who almost certainly suffers from it or a similar disorder. If I am correct, it has some very particular implications for the office. Here are a few things to keep in mind:
1) It’s not curable and it’s barely treatable. He is who he is. There is no getting better, or learning, or adapting. He’s not going to “rise to the occasion” for more than maybe a couple hours. So just put that out of your mind…
6) It’s very, very confusing for non-disordered people to experience a disordered person with NPD. While often intelligent, charismatic and charming, they do not reliably observe social conventions or demonstrate basic human empathy. It’s very common for non-disordered people to lower their own expectations and try to normalize the behavior. DO NOT DO THIS AND DO NOT ALLOW OTHERS, ESPECIALLY THE MEDIA, TO DO THIS. If you start to feel foggy or unclear about this, step away until you recalibrate…
10) Whenever possible, do not focus on the narcissist or give him attention. Unfortunately we can’t and shouldn’t ignore the president, but don’t circulate his tweets or laugh at him — you are enabling him and getting his word out. (I’ve done this, of course, we all have… just try to be aware.) Pay attention to your own emotions: do you sort of enjoy his clowning? do you enjoy the outrage? is this kind of fun and dramatic, in a sick way? You are adding to his energy. Focus on what you can change and how you can resist, where you are. We are all called to be leaders now, in the absence of leadership.
Dana Houle’s got a useful tweetstorm, regarding this:
4/…someone refuses to back down, they get rattled. And they get reckless. When they can’t manipulate the world around them—which they…
— Dana Houle (@DanaHoule) November 29, 2016
6/Best way to deal w someone w NPD is avoidance. Next best is escape. But if you won’t/can’t exercise those options, you need to be ruthless
— Dana Houle (@DanaHoule) November 29, 2016
18/…the disabled, attacking women, and everything else. As I said early in the thread, crazy never rests. And if you let them take something
— Dana Houle (@DanaHoule) November 29, 2016
19/…or get away w something,
They
Will
Always
Take
More.They never stop. So, no, we don’t get to avoid things that are tacky or dumb…
— Dana Houle (@DanaHoule) November 29, 2016
HILFY
John Cole, is your town safe from the forest fires? Sure hope so.
O. Felix Culpa
Co-signed. Had a little discussion about the value of this article a few threads down. I grew up with a narcissistic parent. Such people are dangerous and elusive because they adhere to no rules but their own and always in their own interest, playing a constantly unsettling satanic Calvinball.
We have to know our enemy in order to develop an effective strategy for resistance.
Brachiator
If Trump is mentally ill, then the 25th Amendment should be used to remove him from office, or to strongly appeal to the electors not to vote for him.
Otherwise, this stuff is a waste of time.
“Surviving Trump” will not prevent him from signing bills into law or from appointing Supreme Court justices.
Baud
One piece of advice I have is to stop trying to predict what Trump is going to do. People are working themselves crazy with their imaginations, making it effortless for the GOP.
Mingobat f/k/a Karen in GA
This is going to be an exhausting four years. I’m already sick of him and he hasn’t even taken office yet.
On a related note, how do you deprogram the followers in his cult?
gogol's wife
@Brachiator:
I think it’s helpful for him to be constantly reminded that he is not beloved by the majority of the people in the country (or around the world). Whatever form that takes, from street protests to the recount to all sorts of other things, is useful. He pays attention to it.
Baud
@Mingobat f/k/a Karen in GA: My suggestions.
1) Just tell them they were conned and don’t go into details. That puts the blame on Trump without making them overly defensive. Over time, some might internalize it. But expect high failure rate.
2) Don’t. Focus your energy on supporting the majority who voted for Clinton and reaching out to people who didn’t vote or voted third party.
schrodinger's cat
@Baud: Word. Scaring ourselves shitless achieves exactly nothing.
Reading BJ threads about how terrible everything is going is actually making me physically ill. For my sanity I need to stop reading this constant barrage of doom.
Roger Moore
@gogol’s wife:
I’m not sure how useful it is. He clearly wants to be the center of attention, and it is not at all obvious to me that he cares if it’s in a good way or a bad way. I think a lot of his angry tweet storms are about him wanting attention and not caring if it’s good or bad. Being hated by people he hates is almost as good for him as being liked by people he wants to like him. The thing that really gets him going is when he is hated by people whose respect he craves, but I don’t think the public at large is in that category.
Brachiator
@gogol’s wife:
I agree with street protests and other forms of public dissent, along with active opposition by Democrats in Congress.
Patricia Kayden
@Baud: True. To some extent, it doesn’t matter what Trump wants to do. It matters more what Congressional Republicans will allow him to do. The scary factor is that his VP is a real Christianist nutjob as are many Republican Representatives and Senators so they’ll be pushing him in the extremist direction.
raven
@schrodinger’s cat: Try chanting “It don’t mean nuthin, It don’t mean nuthin,It don’t mean nuthin,It don’t mean nuthin,It don’t mean nuthin,It don’t mean nuthin,It don’t mean nuthin…”
debit
@Roger Moore: It’s true that he doesn’t care if the attention is negative or positive; he thrives on either. However, I am also a firm believer in protesting.
Timurid
Steven Mnuchin, come on down…
Fuck.
Kay
It’s perfect really. He is their President. They created him. The cable news President.
Baud
@Timurid: Haha. Goldman Sachs. But Hillary’s son-in-law worked for Wall Street, so both sides.
PigDog
Sitting in my shrink’s lobby, waiting for my second appointment since the election.
I had been down to one appointment every 3 months until now.
He told me last time that he and his colleagues are asking every single client about suicidal ideation (I’m in DC)
And I’m going to tell him that I have, over the last three weeks, lost all my empathy for ANYBODY who voted for Shitgibbon.
Baud
@PigDog: Take care of yourself first, dog.
Baud
@schrodinger’s cat: Take care of yourself, cat.
Schlemazel
@Brachiator:
does not matter that he is incapable of being President, that he is mentally unbalanced, unprepared and a threat to the nation. He is a Republican & the GOP will put party over country every time, all the time. We will not get the EC to prevent his installation, we will not get the GOP Congress to draft a bill of impeachment, we will not get the Senate to convict him. IF the nation turns on him so that his remaining in office damages the GOP THEN and only then wit=ll the GOP lift a finger. Our job has to be to make him so toxic, his failures so obvious, his incompetence so clear that the nation does turn against him and the GOP
jacy
Keep mocking Trump. I wouldn’t suggest mockery of a narcissist in your personal life, but in public life, absolutely. Narcissists are quitters. When they can’t take any more, they find a way to remove themselves for a situation, or they implode. Look at all the things that Trump has abandoned in his life. He’s already a huge quitter. Keep at him, incessantly, making him feel small and ridiculous.
Mnemosyne
@Brachiator:
FWIW, Narcisssistic Personality Disorder is not a mental illness. There is no medication or therapy that can treat it. It just is. The only option, as discussed above, is to change the way you interact with the NPD person, because they are by definition incapable of change.
Roger Moore
@debit:
Sure, but protest what he’s doing, not the man himself. Protesting his actions is concrete and specific, and it makes you look like somebody who has policy ideas. Protesting him personally makes you look like a sore loser.
gogol's wife
@jacy:
Since I wake up at 3:00 AM to think about him every night, my latest thoughts were: if people keep at him about his conflicts of interest, maybe he’ll just get sick of it and quit.
But in the cold light of day, I thought, nah. He thinks he can pile up cash like Putin, so he’ll stick to it.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@raven: and nuthin’ from nuthin’, so it is written, leaves nuthin’
PigDog
@Baud: I’m good. I’m pouring my empathy into people I care about that are hurting more than me AND who didn’t vote for the ambulatory Cheeto with an inferiority complex.
I’ve been dropping money into the cups of the homeless, because their lot ain’t getting better.
Redirected some charity donations.
Spent hours on the phone with dedicated civil servants, talking them out of quitting.
And counting myself lucky that I don’t have kids who will have to pay for the sins of idiots.
Brachiator
@schrodinger’s cat:
I am not afraid of Trump, but I am watchful. Some of the people he has surrounded himself with have expressed hostility to the existence of me, my friends and family as ever being citizens of this country. I take this hostility very seriously.
Trump is ignorant of what it takes to run a country, and has a vindictive streak to those who simply talk back to him. His national security adviser was fired for “leadership issues” and has also demonstrated a temperament unsuited to high public office. Trump’s recently announced candidate for deputy national security adviser, who should be able to do the heavy lifting of the post, is an empty air head socialite.
This is not a good start.
I am not ready to unleash it yet, but I have in reserve the lines from the remake of “The Fly.”
Tawny: [after Seth says it’s Tawny’s turn to teleport] I’m afraid.
Seth Brundle: Don’t be afraid.
Ronnie: No. Be afraid. Be very afraid.
raven
@raven: Johnny Cash – Drive On
Mnemosyne
@schrodinger’s cat:
@gogol’s wife:
To echo what other people are saying, pick the thing you’re most worried about with Trump — the one thing that’s most keeping you awake at night — and take some action steps. If you’re worried about abortion rights, donate to or volunteer with Planned Parenthood. If you’re worried about immigrant rights, there are a lot of legal aid groups that need your time and money.
In my experience, working to try and prevent the thing you fear will help alleviate the fear.
Callisto
@Mnemosyne:
Yes there is. It isn’t as effective as in other disorders as narcissists tend not to seek out care for the disorder, and it’s pretty resistive to therapy but DBT has had some good promise. It works well for BPD and that’s a hot mess.
schrodinger's cat
@Brachiator: I am watchful too. A stranger in a strange land. That’s how I feel. I haven’t changed but it feels like everything that I took for granted has. Its not fear I feel, its the apprehension of the unknown.
jacy
@gogol’s wife:
It isn’t a matter of him “getting sick of it.” Narcissists make up their own reality. They don’t lie, because they don’t really have the concept of “lying.” They believe what they say at the moment. They have object impermanence, and things they can’t see at the moment cease to exist for them, for all practical purposes. They can’t accept things that make them face the inadequacy that is at their core, so they’ll ignore it, pretend those things don’t exist, tell other people those things don’t exist. But when they can’t escape it, they run away from it. It’s really hard to think in those terms, because normal people have “motives.” Narcissists don’t really have motives, save for one thing — to make them feel better about themselves. They will do anything to make them feel better about themselves and fight against anything that makes them feel bad about themselves. When they can’t fight it, they remove themselves from the situation.
Mnemosyne
Also, too, spinning your wheels with worry and not taking any action about the source of the worry is a pretty clear path to a nasty situational depression that may end up requiring medication. Ask me how I know.
?
Mnemosyne
@Callisto:
I’ve heard that DBT is working pretty well for people with BPD who stick with it for a minimum of one year, but I haven’t heard any success stories with NPD, unfortunately. Note: IANA therapist, just someone who has an NPD person on my side of the family and a (suspected) BPD person on my husband’s side.
debbie
@gogol’s wife:
Follow him on Twitter and attack until he blocks you.
Brachiator
@Mnemosyne:
Very few people here will ever interact with Trump, if anyone at all.
I’m not seeing the practical value to this attempt to categorize Trump. And as I noted in the thread below, I would like to see a therapist go on record and offer this as a diagnosis, without ever having met or treated Trump for anything.
debbie
@Schlemazel:
Hey, thanks for that link this morning. Also thanks, should he/she see this, to StringOnAStick.
debbie
@jacy:
I think you’re right. Mocking is key. If enough people mock him at the same time, he’ll explode.
O. Felix Culpa
@Callisto:
An oxymoron, I’m afraid: assiduously avoided therapies tend not to be…effective. Narcissists by definition displace all their issues on others. They can’t admit they need help and therefore don’t seek it.
But the discussion of whether narcissism is treatable is a distraction. Trump isn’t going to seek DBT or any other therapy whilst raping and pillaging the country and the Constitution. The question is, how to we protect the vulnerable, our nation, and our planet? Public protests are one avenue: there will be marches in D.C. and other cities around the country on Jan. 21st. Calling legislators. Providing financial or volunteer support to worthy organizations. Getting involved in local politics: school boards don’t staff themselves. Gearing up for 2018. Taking back state legislatures and governorships. Being kind to one another. It’s an uphill climb and we need all the support we can give to each other.
Callisto
@Mnemosyne:
I’ve been implementing DBT for borderline patients off and on for some time now, and I know of some success stories using DBT for NPD.
debbie
@Mnemosyne:
You’re right. I have a narcissistic brother and I haven’t spoken to him in almost 3 years. The only way I could deal with him was not to deal with him.
Smitty
Trump must be mocked at every opportunity. He must be made to hide in his tower. Foreign leaders should avoid him in public. Americans of stature must be vocal in their opposition. The press needs to continually call his lies lies. Everyone around the globe should shun his businesses. Ridicule his bad suits and long ties. Be relentless! Only when Trump sees that he is regarded as nothing more than a political shill, a laughingstock will he go away. When he goes his cult dies. When Republicans see he can no longer provide cover they will fold.
BTW….when will an IRS hero leak his returns. They will especially interesting in light of recent NYT conflict of interest coverage.
O. Felix Culpa
@jacy: You speak as one with personal experience, which I share. The NPD world is crazy-making for those of us around it. The value of knowing this about Trump is to NEVER believe any “sense-making” or normalizing narrative from the media, for starters. There is no sense to be made.
tobie
@jacy:
I agree with you wholeheartedly, and this means that about the only option we have is to oppose with all our might a good chunk of what he proposes (privatizing Medicare, privatizing Social Security, privatizing schools, targeting minorities, etc.). We will lose many of these battles but it’s important to fight them all, and to gum up as much as possible his executive actions, say, in California and the 9th Circuit, just as Republicans did with Texas and the 5th Circuit. Frustrate the pig. This may be the only option we have.
Baud
@Smitty: I hope not. Since the election is over, there’s no point, and I’d rather it remain a live political issue.
Callisto
@O. Felix Culpa:
People too often assume that NPD makes someone a super-narcissist who is just off-the-charts with it. Like all disorders there is a spectrum to it. Many narcissists don’t have some full-blown intractable problem, in a similar manner as with borderline. Typically, people with NPD who seek treatment are usually going in for one of the numerous comorbid disorders or illnesses. Proper treatment, however, can try to effectively address the narcissistic side of the whole thing as well.
mai naem mobile
Orange douches SS codename is Mogul(moghul/mughal) which also happens to mean Indian Muslim. Fucking moron is too stupid to know that. Melanomas is Muse. Miss Skanky is Muse. Hope the SS are looking at her nekkid pics online while they’re protecting her. I know this is childish but I cannot stand this intellectually stupid crooked grifter tax dodging family.
Mike in NC
We got to discussing Trump with friends during Thanksgiving dinner. I speculated that he’ll hate a job that requires 24/7 attention. Maybe delegate everything and play golf and throw lavish parties for a year or so, then resign because he has nothing left to prove, but still loot the Treasury in the process.
O. Felix Culpa
@Callisto: Ms. O is a therapist, so I’m aware that there’s a spectrum to disorders. However, to refocus the discussion to Trump’s apparent disorder(s), I would wager that therapy is not high on his list of priorities. The relevant issue to me is, knowing that he is likely somewhere on the spectrum of NPD, what are effective strategies for resisting him? I’d love to get your thoughts on the matter.
debbie
@Mike in NC:
Except he doesn’t think it will be 24/7. He’s planning on commuting back and forth between DC and NYC. I heard that the SS will be renting out two floors of Trump Towers. Yet another boondoggle for the Trumpster!
Kay
Not sure why they’re keeping the anti-Clinton narrative going. They won the election.
Roger Moore
@Mike in NC:
I expect he will wind up delegating just about everything except for the glamor and graft parts of the job.
Callisto
@O. Felix Culpa:
I didn’t mean to go off topic. It’s just that, as a therapist dealing with SMI and pretty difficult personality disorders, one of the difficult parts of getting people reintegrated into society is the terrible stigma America has placed on the mentally ill, most of which is rooted in ignorance. Some days I feel like half my job is getting non-disordered people to understand that no, their mentally-ill neighbor is not a threat.
As to Trump, I’d go with avoidance, but this is a pretty special case since he’s the president.
Roger Moore
@Kay:
CDS: they has it. Plus, they see it as a way of shutting her up and possibly making the recount look less legitimate.
Schlemazel
@raven:
“and the big fool said push on”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j3SysxG6yoE
Mnemosyne
@debbie:
Yep. He’s “generously” foregoing his $400K salary as president so he can instead pocket $3 million a year for housing his own Secret Service detail.
jacy
@O. Felix Culpa:
Yes, at first dealing with an NPD is baffling. I was with one for 20 years. At first it was manageable, because I gave him the reassurance he needed. I was his steady drug that made him feel good. When he hit his midlife crisis, he totally decompensated, and just went full-blown. Lying, gaslighting, passive/aggressive, living in an elaborate fantasy world. I’ve spent the last two years studying this and working with three different therapists. (One for me, one for my kids, and one that attempted to work with us coparenting, until he stopped going. At our last session, she told me he was delusional, and there was nothing to do about it.) Narcissists resist help, because they thrive on displacement and projection. I’ve found that you can tell what an NPD is doing, because it’s whatever they accuse you of doing. It’s very disconcerting, because they do things that hurt themselves, lie when it can easily be disproved, etcetera, etcetera. But when you understand that they’re basically insecure and will do absolutely anything — and I mean anything — to stave off those feelings of insecurity, it starts to make some sense.
Groucho48
For the many of us in this thread, like me, who have no idea what DBT is, it’s Dialectical Behavior Therapy.
And, BPD is Borderline Personality Disorder.
Schlemazel
@debbie:
Glad to be of help though in all honesty I don’t remember the link
Baud
@Roger Moore: That’s probably good for us. His administration will be a mess.
p.a.
It’s a shame so many innocent people are going to be hurt by these p’tok, because otherwise there could be some David Lynch humor in this situaution; don’t forget Trumplthinskin is a loose cannon for his own party too. Once the beaurocratic infight losers start leaking he’ll go Ka-ray-zee. (And of course blame the press. Even the ones with lips firmly pressed to his hindquarters.)
jeannedalbret
@Mingobat f/k/a Karen in GA:
my only suggestion is to point out that he is doing exactly what he said was wrong with “politicians”: He is gutting Medicare by nominating six-term Rep.Tom Price, despite his promises to strengthen health care, he is nominating a Goldman Sachs banker/hedge funder Steve Mnuchin to loot the treasury, and his secretary of labor
debbie
@Schlemazel:
It was the National Committee to Preserve SS and Medicare.
West of the Rockies (been a while)
OT, but has a president-elect in recent memory ever had a cabinet composed of just his party? It’s hard to imagine a Dem accepting a post, but still… It’s like knowing you don’t want to attend a wedding but still expecting to be asked.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
From Cole’s twitter feed:
from other twitter
MomSense
@jacy:
Wow, I could have written that comment as my own.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
not for me: Harold Ford, Tulsi Gabbard, any number of ConservaDems who’ve cashed in or faded away in the last five or ten years
chris
@Baud: This!
2) Don’t. Focus your energy on supporting the majority who voted for Clinton and reaching out to people who didn’t vote or voted third party.
If everyone adopted a nonvoter and convinced or dragged them to vote things might improve. I’m still shocked at the turnout. Do 46% of eligible voters really believe that it’s not going to affect them? Here in Canada turnout was 68% in the last election and I’m not happy about that. But, geez you guys, half your compatriots seem to have given up on even the idea of self-government. That is truly sad.
West of the Rockies (been a while)
@Smitty: when WILL an IRS person release Trump taxes? Hey, Julian, aren’t you supposed to be the point man on this shit?
Julian? You there, bro?
Mnemosyne
@Callisto:
Okay, can I share a totally off-topic family story? This is a story that involves amateur diagnosis on my part, so take it with a grain of salt:
There is something wrong with my sister-in-law (husband’s sister) that I have become convinced is BPD. The main reason I’ve come down on the side of BPD instead of NPD is that (a) she has mood swings and (b) she seems to have some residual sense of empathy. The situation is bad enough that when my brother-in-law (her brother) started therapy and described the whole family dynamic, the therapist’s first question was, “So who’s the alcoholic?”
Every holiday, something “goes wrong” that sets her off. A couple of years ago, it was that my mother-in-law didn’t order the sandwiches she preferred for Christmas Eve, and she threw an enormous tantrum that is now family legend. This year, something genuinely went wrong at Thanksgiving — they ordered a turkey that was supposed to be pre-cooked, but somehow they were given the wrong turkey, so when my BIL started to carve it, it was still raw. And my SIL … was fine with that. She did not throw a tantrum. It was like, she got her RDA of drama by having the turkey go wrong, so she didn’t need to create any extra drama. She’s also weirdly good with genuine emergencies — when my BIL had meningitis and didn’t realize it, she was the one who insisted that he had to go to the hospital and drove him there herself.
But if there isn’t enough drama in a given situation, she is absolutely driven to create it.
Iowa Old Lady
@West of the Rockies (been a while): I love how they call it “reaching across the aisle” when he considers Romney or names Priebus.
p.a.
@chris: It’s a feature, not a bug, of a generation’s worth of Repub ‘government is the problem’ and their media handmaids ‘both sides are guilty’ puke.
West of the Rockies (been a while)
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
It would have to be a turncoat bluedog, cuz Trumpling would not ask a principled Dem.
O. Felix Culpa
@Callisto:
I wish avoidance were an option. Unfortunately, he will be the next president, barring a miracle. So my challenge is avoiding avoidance and figuring out how to live with courage and integrity in this Brave New World. And to salvage what I can for justice and my children’s future.
Schlemazel
@debbie:
OH YEAH. in case others want to look at this. The group was founded by actual Democrats & is fighting to save Medicare & Social Security. in my naturally optimistic nature I assume they are doomed to failure but I sent them money in hope I could be wrong for once
National Committee to Preserve Social Security & Medicare
http://www.ncpssm.org/
Roger Moore
@Baud:
I don’t know. Look at the people he’s appointing, and then think of them being given a completely free hand.
jacy
@MomSense:
It’s weird when you realize that they’re basically the same person — their personality becomes totally subsumed by the narcissism. I think of him as a hollow man. For a long time I filled him up with things, and when I couldn’t anymore, he just became this scary shell constantly seeking something to fill him up again.
Mnemosyne
@Callisto:
Oh, and my sister-in-law on my side of the family who I have (amateur) diagnosed as NPD? Showed up at the house where her estranged husband (my brother) had died less than 6 hours previously with a U-Haul, expecting to be able to take stuff from the house. He died around 6:30 am and she was there before noon the same day with the truck. On. A. Sunday.
We were able to block her from taking anything other than my niece’s stuff but, seriously, who the fuck does that?
O. Felix Culpa
@MomSense:
Me too. :)
Baud
@Roger Moore: Their free hand won’t be any worse than Trump’s hand. The one thing we can hope for is dysfunction, and the lack of a strong leader will encourage that.
Schlemazel
@Mnemosyne:
I have a father in law and had an aunt I could see doing that. They are special people.
Callisto
@O. Felix Culpa:
Given that he’s starting with record-low approval ratings and that his policies are guaranteed to fail terribly, the amount of scorn and ridicule he’s going to be seeing after a while is going to make him fall apart in one way or another. We can try to speed up the process by heaping it on.
Narcissists can only avoid dealing with their failures for so long. Some end up depressed, some self medicate, some lash out. I worry about what this guy will do when he can no longer blame his failures on others given the power of the office.
hovercraft
@PigDog:
I never had any to begin with.
More importantly take care of yourself though, we must fight them and we need all of the good ones we can get. It will be a challenge but we must do it. If you need to see your shrink more often, go for it, these are trying times, and anything that helps us stay sane is all good. Take care and best of luck.
gogol's wife
@Schlemazel:
I called them and when I told the person on the phone how much I’d like to donate, she said, “Oh, ma’am, are you sure you want to give that much?” Me likey.
Roger Moore
@West of the Rockies (been a while):
AFAIK, Clinton did.
Juice Box
@gogol’s wife: I wake up at 3 am thinking about him too.
I just saw a tweet that he told Newt Gingrich that “it’s a bigger job than I thought.” You know that he was sure that if a black guy could do it, anyone could do it. He’s an idiot.
jacy
@Callisto:
That’s the scary part. And he will lash out, for as long as he can. I don’t know what that looks like for a person in his position, but it won’t be good. It’s going to happen no matter what we do. The stressors are going to be too much, and he can’t escape them easily.
gogol's wife
And by the way, let’s not slander Chauncey Gardiner. He was kind and sweet.
Roger Moore
@Baud:
Except there will be a bunch of them rather than just one Trump.
gogol's wife
I know schrodinger’s cat thinks we’re all worrywarts, but I just subscribed to WaPo, and the commenters there are expecting we’ll be invaded by China or North Korea any day now. BJ looks blithely optimistic in comparison.
raven
@gogol’s wife: And he liked to watch,
gogol's wife
@raven:
Well, on that count he probably does resemble Trump.
Baud
@gogol’s wife:
Maybe that’s their version of optimism.
Cacti
Does anyone else find it bitterly ironic…
Now that the WWII generation has mostly left us, the US/UK/Russia are hotbeds of neo-fascist politics.
While Germany seems to be left precariously holding the torch of western liberal democratic values?
gogol's wife
@Baud: ‘
I see what you mean.
gogol's wife
@Cacti:
That irony has not escaped me.
Major Major Major Major
@Cacti: @gogol’s wife: We were remarking about this at work not a week ago.
SiubhanDuinne
@PigDog:
That is pretty stunning.
I no longer have a regular therapist — would have to start pretty much from scratch at this point. I think my former therapist still does telephone sessions; I’ll give her a call in a few days when I get my voice back (I’ve had a bad sore throat, cough, and laryngitis the last few days) and see if she’ll do me long distance for a session or two. Because I know for sure I don’t want to go through the next however many years feeling as depressed and sad and hopeless as I do right now.
chris
@p.a.: I guess. Lot of that here too. That and the young ones that say it doesn’t matter to them. I like to point out that there is a party that would like to take away their healthcare and Gran’s pension and Bobby’s compensation. It’s worked a couple of times now.
Schlemazel
@gogol’s wife:
You are the second person I have heard that from. They seem to be good people & not grifters!
Kay
Ella in New Mexico
@Brachiator:
Is there a way to start sending stuff like this to every single Republican Elector prior to the Electoral College Vote?
schrodinger's cat
@gogol’s wife: Exactly how is this invasion going to happen? What is going to be the beach head for this invasion.
schrodinger's cat
@Cacti: The west never that liberal and democratic in the world at large. Those values were only for people that looked like them.
Kay
It sort of doesn’t matter what he said since he’s never again taking a question from media, so no one will ever ask him.
Kay
8 notebooks!
frosty
@Cacti: Yes, I’ve noticed the irony that Britain, Russia, the US, and maybe France are lining up to be allies against Germany again. On the wrong side this time.
Feebog
So I reached out to a kindred soul today. The guy is an advocate for the SEIU. Since I’m a neutral, I have only had casual conversation with him, but enough to know we agree on most political matters. He retires in February, and I suggested that after he pulls the plug we have dinner and discuss what we can do to fight this menace for the next four years. He was up for it, should be an interesting dinnerl
O. Felix Culpa
@Kay: Bah! Nothing so nefarious as a PRIVATE EMAIL SERVER!!!
Sigh. Do they teach anything in the schools these goobers come from? Critical thinking skillz, they iz lacking.
Iowa Old Lady
@Kay: And if they do ask, I can hear him now: “I never said that.”
O. Felix Culpa
@Iowa Old Lady:
Which is exactly the kind of gaslighting narcissists do. A major tool in their toolbox. We in the reality-based world must hang on to and proclaim TRUTH from the rooftops.
Baud
@Kay:
The media will never stand for that…
Oh, you’re talking about Trump.
Never mind.
Larkspur
There’s only one time during the campaign when I saw him…trying to think of the right word – deflate? It was that time in Flint when he started going off into his campaign shtick and I believe it was the Flint mayor who shut him right down. He seemed to shrink and he immediately backed off. I remember noting that in the following days, his attacks on HRC got meaner, and I guessed he was deflecting his embarrassment as rage onto Hillary.
He got a little shaken by a straight-up “oh no you don’t” block delivered by an older woman of color with legitimate (i.e. elected) authority. I’m still trying to sort out how the mayor made it work. It might have had to do with him not having anticipated any conflict, or maybe on that trip he wasn’t surrounded by as many sycophants. Obviously the Flint mayor has her own job to do, so we can’t ask her to follow him everywhere. But she made him blink. It seems like a bit of clue-age. Anyway I feel better when I recall it.
Central Planning
@Kay: To keep the focus off of Trump? Maybe they realize he will be a shitshow.
MoxieM
Yeah, I was married to someone on the Cluster B (Narc) spectrum for 25 years. It was fine-ish, or I convinced myself it was, until he began to age (quelle horreur!) and filled the emptiness with cheap sex. Not a good way to be married. Horrific, in fact. So we’re no longer married, but I’ve learned to spot them at quite a distance. I really couldn’t believe how well the Press Corpse allowed itself to be groomed by Trump. I try not to watch or listen, as it’s way too triggering of my c-ptsd, and am seriously thinking of selling my house (and thereby disposing of my retirement) and going to study overseas for some years. Running away to save my sanity.
Baud
@Larkspur: Clinton handled him pretty well in the debates. It wasn’t enough to persuade the haters, obviously, but she did a good job.
Aleta
@Mingobat f/k/a Karen in GA: Today I’m thinking, stick to clear statements about concrete personal loss that will affect them:
–your parent/ grandparent is going to lose their medicare/prescriptions
–your parent’s pension fund will be gutted
–your brother’s union wage will be lost when (the PO is privatized/restructured and everyone is made to reapply for the new job definitions, etc)
Then don’t argue it. Just stop there.
This avoids getting diverted into arguments about the subject of Trump or sexism, racism, which they are invested in denying.
Scare tactic seems cruel, but their brains have already been primed for fear. Over time a few might become more likely to protest what happens in Congress. Protest from their base will matter to them, let’s hope.
Mnemosyne
@MoxieM:
My SIL with NPD has three gorgeous daughters — seriously, people stop in the street to admire them. Right now, the Devil Woman is holding off the inevitable results of aging through plastic surgery and exercise, but I shudder to think what’s going to happen when time inevitably catches up with her. I really hope my youngest niece is out of the house by then.
Major Major Major Major
@Baud: I’ll bet they’re still counting how long it’s been since Hillary held a press conference.
Gelfling 545
@raven: Ive been going with St Julian of Norwich’s verse: All shall be well and all shall be well and all manner of things shall be well.
Baud
@Major Major Major Major: I hope she makes a billion dollars giving speeches.
Iowa Old Lady
@Gelfling 545: I repeat that to myself when I wake up in the night and am afraid.
tobie
@Larkspur: It was the pastor at a church in Flint. Full video available at this link.
PsiFighter37
NYT reporting that Trump and Pence somehow bribed Carrier into staying in Indiana, basically by promising a bunch of corporate giveaways…sigh. Putting ‘truth’ into ‘I alone can fix this’.
Major Major Major Major
@Baud: I’ll bet she can make more in four years giving speeches than Trump can loot for himself.
SiubhanDuinne
@Larkspur:
Haven’t looked it up to check, but if memory serves it was not the mayor but the pastor of the church where he was speaking. But it hardly matters, he was cowed by a strong voice (who happened, in this case, to be a woman of color–not sure how significant either of those attributes are) and that tells us that he can and does back down, at least temporarily, when he is stood up to.
Kay
Doesn’t matter though. Nothing Trump said or says is to be taken “literally”.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
I was in a successful power struggle over a group leadership with a narcissist last year. A few observations
Narcissists want all the attention, since they aren’t rational they can’t come up with solutions and they can’t stand someone else getting praise. That means nothing will get done. This our opening.
Getting the Narcissists supporters to see the Narcissists is insane is the key to victory.
Yes, there will be a lot of bullying, it sucks, but again that’s another moment to show there is something wrong.
I fully expect Trump to resign. To many people in the government who also have to be the center of attention that he can’t control and Narcissists HAVE to have control.
Elizabelle
In happier news, Rudolf the Red Nosed Reindeer is on right now. CBS.
“There’s always tomorrow, for dreams to come true …”
Matt McIrvin
@West of the Rockies (been a while):
As far as I know, appointing people from the other party is something only Democrats do.
SiubhanDuinne
@Gelfling 545:
I did Julian of Norwich a few days after the election. It helped for about 24 hours. Right now, it just seems fatuous. I hope I can get back to that state of serenity and acceptance, but it seems rather remote right now.
Mnemosyne
@Kay:
Don’t forget, people couldn’t bring themselves to vote for Hillary because she once gave a paid speech at Goldman Sachs, but it’s A-OK to put a GS guy in charge of our Treasury. Priorities!
Kay
@PsiFighter37:
So now every large employer in Indiana gets a bribe now, right? Have to. They’ll all demand a bribe to operate or threaten to leave, and rightfully so. Shouldn’t apply just to Carrier. Bribes all around.
Baud
@PsiFighter37: So a bailout?
Ian
@Brachiator:
They won’t do that because it violates their ethical standards and practices. ANYONE you see accusing someone of a personality disorder in public is either A) not a therapist or B) in serious, serious, serious violation of the code of conduct.
Kay
@Baud:
Every large employer in Indiana should immediately threaten to leave unless they get the same deal. It’s only fair.
Aleta
@Kay: Lack of experience also doesn’t matter to those who want to see a department taken apart, slashed up, or destroyed.
Baud
@Kay: Yes. Absolutely. Why should they be left behind?
Larkspur
@Baud: You’re right, of course. During the Republican debates, no one was able to deal with him the way she did in the general debates. The Republican debates went all slapstick. Perhaps it is dick-related. His attacks on women have been after the fact, not often to their faces. With respect to Katy Tur, he was threatening her from a distance with the suggestion of mob violence, not dealing with her person-to-person. Maybe he can’t relate to any woman “person-to-person”, if he can’t really comprehend their person-ness.@tobie: Thank you, tobie.
O. Felix Culpa
@SiubhanDuinne: Come visit beautiful New Mexico for a mental health break! (Not that it’s helping me with my anxiety much.) The opera’s not in season, but we’ve got museums and lovely landscapes. Plus, we’re one of the rare inland blue states! I’d be glad to welcome a comradess-in-arms.
Baud
@Aleta: No, they like Treasury.
Schlemazel
@Major Major Major Major:
Not even close. Trump will have the entire Federal budget (nearly 3 TRILLION dollars) at his disposal. If he takes only .1% of that a year it is 12 billion. at $250k a speech Hillary would have to give 32 speeches a day every day for 4 years
Hal
@PsiFighter37: 1,000 out of 2,000 jobs with no real word on what carrier gets out of this deal. But all we’ll here about is Trump making America great again. And he’s not even president yet!
I’m happy for anyone who gets to keep their job, but this is a distraction and rank hypocrisy from free market conservatives who would call this a bailout if a Democrat were responsible.
Aleta
@Baud: want to undo regulations though
Baud
@Hal: Agreed.
PsiFighter37
@Hal: cleek’s law, baby. Don’t forget about it.
Baud
@Aleta: Treasury doesn’t really have a ton of those.
Baud
@Hal:
And no public option. He sold us out!
Major Major Major Major
@Schlemazel: Cheney tried and he didn’t come anywhere close to 12 billion. I was ballparking from his figures. And Hillary can command a lot more than $250k now.
Kay
@Baud:
It means you can blackmail the President. Threaten to move jobs and he’ll personally arrange a bribe.
He never should have done this. He’ll regret it. He doesn’t understand the role of the President, the requirement of fairness, the necessity to not put yourself in a position where you’re playing favorites.
We have a local manufacturer of commercial heating units. They’re a big employer.Not 1000 jobs but at least 300. Do they get the Trump Carrier Deal if they don’t threaten to move to Mexico? They should definitely threaten to move, I would think.
SiubhanDuinne
@O. Felix Culpa:
That sounds very tempting. I will seriously consider it (I’ve only ever spent a night in NM, but liked what I saw and wished to see more).
Josie
Does anyone know of a good non-profit that works on immigration issues? This is an area, in addition to voting rights, that I am interested in working with, and I could use some guidance. I am already connected with VoteRiders but would like to support immigration rights as well.
Aleta
@Baud: OK. Then what about investigative powers and enforcement of financial crimes.
(You know, the need to “streamline” regulations.)
Baud
@Kay: I wonder what incentives he has the authority to promise.
Trump’s whole presidency will be about playing favorites.
DCrefugee
@Matt McIrvin:
Shrub named Norm Mineta, a Dem from San Jose, Calif., as SecDOT. About the only thing he got right…
Baud
@Aleta: Less certain, but that’s still mostly DOJ and other agencies like the Fed, SEC and OCC.
Kay
@Baud:
And why just Carrier? Now he’s responsible for every plant closure or move. It’s hardly fair to bail out 1000 in Indiana and not bail out everyone else. He’s going to be very busy! We should inundate him with requests and then scream really loud about how he only helped those people in Indiana.
tobie
@PsiFighter37: In hindsight, one has to ask why the Dems didn’t take a victory lap with workers at auto plants in Detroit saved through the bailout. I really don’t get why we’re so bad at touting our achievements.
Kay
@Baud:
Well, it’s Pence right? Pence has the authority.
He’s already playing favorites. A solar panel company just laid off 350 in Toledo. They should get the President intervening too.He has to, or he likes Indiana better than he likes Ohio. As far as I’m concerned he’s personally responsible for every job loss where he doesn’t personally intervene. He didn’t even try in Toledo! What gives?
Baud
@Kay: Agreed.
@Kay: Pence may have the authority to do state incentives. But will the next governor honor it?
Baud
@tobie:
Because the only position we’re allowed to have is that we always never go far enough and we should be ashamed for not doing more.
Kay
@Baud:
I don’t know.
Thank God. We’d never find out what he gave them but for “recent accounting standards”- he;ll lie or just tell media to fuck off.
I’m glad some people still have standards. Accountants may save us all :)
Baud
@Kay: Couldn’t Pence have done this before the election? I guess it’s better to hurt your own state’s businesses and blame Obama for it. It worked.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Kay: But Kay, email!
Elizabelle
@schrodinger’s cat:
Yup.
Elizabelle the lurker (and Rudolf fan, the Reindeer, not Giuliani)
dww44
@Kay: Because unlike Trump and NPD, they suffer from CDS and will never be able to let it go.
Schlemazel
@Major Major Major Major:
Given that she is now well out of the range of ever having power I don’t think she can get those numbers any more.
Cheney is a 2-bit hustler compared to Trump. He fed money primarily to one place, Trump has 150 – that we KNOW of.
Baud
@Elizabelle: NOOOOO. You’re only lurking. Not good.
Pogonip
@Kay: We go by Generally Accepted Accounting Principles (GAAP), and we take those suckers seriously. Not doing so brought down Arthur Andersen.
If you are curious about GAAP, Google will bring them up at multiple sotes.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Baud: Except the IRS.
Baud
@BillinGlendaleCA: True. I was thinking of Treasury proper.
RSA
@Ian:
And yet so many political commenters, from the professionals (David Brooks, for example) to the amateurs, are willing make a remote psychological/psychiatric diagnosis. I don’t know why attaching a label to Trump is so irresistible. And while Anne may say, “I don’t want to (further) stigmatize those with genuine mental health issues,” I think the stigma by association is kind of inevitable.
Elizabelle
@Baud: I don’t got anything interesting to say.
Quite fond of you all, but cannot take the constant hair shirting. Mind you, I think we’re screwed. Albeit, always looking for the silver lining.
People who thought government should be run like a business? By a chief executive who’s declared bankruptcy 6 times, won’t release his financial statements, and surrounds himself with vampire squids, the more divisive the better?
Fasten your seatbelts.
Oh. Right. You peeps don’t do seatbelts. Government interference and all…
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Kay:
D58826
@PsiFighter37: Given that Carrier is part of a major defense contractor, I rather suspect that there is another shoe to drop. Maybe a negative IG report quashed or a non-performance penalty forgiven.
It does open POTUS to extortion by every business in the country. Just like the sports team owners who wipsaw cities to get better stadium deals.
Unfortunately the way the political will play out is ‘Trump saved 1k jobs’ on every front page in the country. Any downside will simply be a minor item on page 97.
Baud
@Elizabelle: You only have interesting things to say! You’re lurking anyway, so it’s not like you’re not being exposed to this stuff.
El Caganer
@Josie: Pennsylvania Immigration and Citizenship Coalition (in PA, of course). I did a little volunteer work for them. There’s a link on their site to a couple of national organizations, and they might be able to refer you to some group in your area if you’re not in PA.
Blue Galangal
@raven: Or, a la Bill Murray in Meatballs, “It just doesn’t matter! It just doesn’t matter!”
tobie
@Kay: Can we turn this deal into his Solyndra? Remember the hue and cry about the federal loan guarantees?
D58826
@tobie: Well at the time the bailout was referred to as porkulus and Government Motors. And it was so yesterday so why should they get credit(sigh).
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@tobie: they did. “Osama bin Laden is dead and General Motors is alive”. It didn’t transfer to Clinton
Bumper
@Josie: I will put in a plug for Northwest Immigrant Rights Project in Seattle.
They did excellent work for our foster son, who is now on track to becoming a US citizen. Super knowledgeable, understanding, and helpful. We didn’t have to pay anything, but FS is planning to make donations when he graduates college.
tobie
@D58826: I suck when it comes to thinking of pithy slogans but something like, Trump spends XXX to save 1000 jobs at Carrier, Obama spent XXX to save 1 million jobs in the auto industry. For the Obama total: I’d only count what from the original loan was not repaid which is a pittance in view of the number of jobs saved. If anyone can think of something cleverer, please do volunteer. Dems have to get better at jingles and branding. The GOP is skillful at this.
tobie
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Good point. Forgot about this.
Bumper
Ok. First attempt at a link didn’t go so well. Sorry ?
O. Felix Culpa
@SiubhanDuinne: You would be most welcome! Let me know if you actually decide to come.
Capri
@Baud: Yes, the next gov. is his hand-picked croney,
The Lodger
@Kay: Solar panels? He wouldn’t even think of it.
amk
@Kay: After the 24×7 whiny phony loony left yelling obama and hillary were corporatist stooges!!! over last 8 years, their dreams have finally come true.
Iowa Old Lady
@Bumper: Someone explained to me how to link here, and I’ll pass the favor on (though maybe you know this anyway).
Type what you want to say and highlight the portion where you want the link to show.
Click the “link” box in the row of small boxes at the top of the comment box. A window will pop up.
Paste the link in there, being sure to have the “http” show only once.
Click OK. Voila.
Aleta
Good news: Federal court orders new NC legislative elections in 2017
http://www.wral.com/federal-court-orders-new-nc-legislative-elections-in-2017/16289906/
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@efgoldman: also the help of the media
Emma
@Iowa Old Lady: I have been reading Patrick’s rune every morning, and won’t stop for four years:
At Tara to-day in this fateful hour
I place all Heaven with its power,
And the sun with its brightness,
And the snow with its whiteness,
And fire with all the strength it hath,
And lightning with its rapid wrath,
And the winds with their swiftness along their path,
And the sea with its deepness,
And the rocks with their steepness,
And the earth with its starkness:
All these I place,
By God’s almighty help and grace,
Between myself and the powers of darkness.
amk
@Aleta:
redistricting an entire state? easypeasy. redistricting just a few districts? man, that’s hard. fucking assholes.
dems suck at this game.
Bumper
@Iowa Old Lady: Thank you. My mistake was putting the link in first, then the text. Now I know to reverse that order.
Seth Owen
@Brachiator: By Jan. 21, when I plan to be in DC, we will have concrete things to protest: A stolen Supreme Court, Bannon, Sessions, Trump’s corrupt D.C. Hotel lease, plus whatever else the shitgibbon does over the next eight weeks. I won’t be protesting the man.
Emma
By the way, I have, as promised, looked into both the League of Women Voters and Vote Riders. They both do good work, but the LWV is broader in approach. Right now, the LWV is involved in a number of areas, but to my mind, the reforming money in politics is a winner. The best part of the LWV is that it has local chapters if you want to get directly involved. Find yours here.
Vote Riders is a one issue group: they try to make sure people are able to vote. I think that if we were going to act as a group this would be my choice. They seem to be targeting Wisconsin, Texas, and as couple of Southern States: http://www.voteriders.org/Clinics/PO>Here.
They are both non-profit and non-partisan, but of course right now they’re both fighting our common enemies.
GAH. Links all over the place.
RustBelt
Im curious, regarding the Carrier jobs that were being outsourced to Mexico. When did Obama every put this kind of direct pressure on a single company after they announced they were outsourcing jobs? Im actually curious if he has done a lot of that and it just wasn’t reported, or if Trump threatening a company that has a lot to lose in Pentagon defense contracts is something new. Either way, who do you think the Rust Belt voter is going to respect more? Or vote for? Something to think about.
Emma
OK, sorry about the link screwup. Let me try again:
LWV Here
Vote Riders Here.
Sentient AI from the Future
At one point in my life I thought I might need to make a living through clandestine drug manufacturing. Eventually I thought better of that and followed the straight and narrow.
These days, I think as a matter of conscience I may need to teach sterile technique for pregnancy termination. And I am down for that.
jenn
@Emma: Oh my gosh, me, too! The last time was about 10 minutes ago! You’re the first person I’ve heard mention that in years. I am not alone! ;*)
Of course, part of what I’m thinking about is also the need to put myself between the earth and the powers of darkness. But yeah.
Mnemosyne
@Emma:
I always associate that rune with Madeleine L’Engle’s A Swiftly Tilting Planet. I somehow managed to read that trilogy backwards, which I always manage to do.
Glidwrith
@Emma: That is awesome. Thanks Emma!
It is also good to hear VoteRiders is focussing on specific states, since we have only two years as our first immediate goal. Upthread a commenter named Josie said she is involved with them. Perhaps she will share more information.
Smitty
@Major Major Major Major: not a chance! We are talking cartel money for Trump-Barnum!
Smitty
@Seth Owen: High minded but ineffective ! Futile to protest issues. Trumpistas voted their gut not issues. The only effective approach to bringing Trump down is kneecapping. Bring him and his cult by using their tactics against them.
Steeplejack (phone)
@Bumper:
At least it’s a working link! That puts you ahead of a lot of the regulars here.
Emma
@Mnemosyne: I think that’s where I found it originally. My “good prayers” come from books.It’s that one for safety and the Dune litany against fear:
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”
Corner Stone
@Steeplejack (phone): Fucking smug coastal elite. No wonder HRC lost.
Matt McIrvin
Neal Gabler is framing the election of Trump as a sort of irreversible loss of innocence. Some idea of America died forever.
I can feel his despair, and I’ve written plenty of stuff like this, but… now I’m thinking I’ve heard this story before. I’ve read a lot of boomers writing that America’s soul died on the day John F. Kennedy was killed. I’ve often wondered if it felt different, living in a country that actually had a soul. I guess I never got to find out.
9/11 (and the reaction thereto) was supposed to be a loss of innocence as well.
But you read something like “Huckleberry Finn” and it seems to be an exposition of how America never had any innocence in the first place. There’s a reason why, when Langston Hughes wrote “Let America Be America Again,” he emphasized repeatedly that it never really was America for him.
We’re a bunch of fucking hypocrites, and when we point the hypocrisy in the right direction it can actually ennoble us. It’s worked before, for a while.
Sandia Blanca
@Josie: A couple of good organizations are Justice for our Neighbors and RAICES (Refugee and Immigrant Center for Education and Legal Services). JFON is national, RAICES is Texas-based.
fuckwit
@Matt McIrvin: Meh. John F. Kennedy was dead before I was born. Loss of innocence. The Vietnam war was raging when I was born, and RFK and MLK were killed while I was but a toddler, loss of innocence. I sat and watched Nixon resign on live TV in disgrace, loss of innocence. I watched gas prices go through the roof, and lines for gas around the corner, twice, loss of innocence. I watched the Iranian hostage families, and watched Reagan win largely on that, loss of innocence. I watched Ollie North lie and strut, and get away with it, and Reagan dissemble and fail to remember anything, loss of innocence (and Bruce Hornsby even wrote a song about it). I watched a CIA spook obtain the Presidency and then obtain international cooperation to attack a middle-eastern country in defense of two oppressive dictatorships, loss of innocence. I watched a folksy shuck-and-jive act from a Southern Governor pushing a Republican-lite agenda that seemed to at least offer the hope of peace and prosperity. He delivered but then I watched that President the United States get asked on camera about his having stuck his cigar into the moistened vagina of an intern, loss of innocence. I watched a C+ student and child of wealth and privilege get appointed to the Presidency by his cronies on the SCOTUS, loss of innocence. I watched that same clown ignore warnings and let the Twin Towers come crashing down in a rain of death and dust, watched the people jumping out the windows, loss of innocence. I watched the same C+ ass-clown use that Reichstag fire as an excuse to go to war with the wrong country, loss of innocence.
I have no innocence left to lose.
I was briefly hopeful during the Obama years. It was but a blip, an anomaly.
Now we have a know-nothing, corrupt, narcissistic game show host as our President. What innocence? There’s none.
RaflW
My thoughts revolve around how unpopular Trump will prove to be as a leader. His unpredictability might have been fun for his fans during a campaign, but all but the hard core may tire quickly of his actually fucking things up.
The targets therefore are the GOP in Congress. We need to constantly remind them that the party in power gets punished bad in the mid-terms if voters feel the Prez is a shitgibbon who is screwing everything up.
Plus, paying attention to Congress might annoy Trump.
Steeplejack (tablet)
@Corner Stone:
We’ve gone through the looking-glass, buddy. It’s a hard new world out there!
RaflW
I worry a lot, but I also think that Trump is out-maneuverable. Some of his picks will be shrewd and fast destructors of what we thought were settled norms.
Our job is to get those who are neutral or not very engaged to see that they had counted on those settled norms too, and to be mad and want to throw that bum out, ASAP. And the best way to do that is the mid-terms.
Nail the bastards in the GOP who are enabling Trumps’ fools errands.
But we also need to be getting to it about building what comes after. Trumpism is a big threat, but it is also a big opportunity, and while I don’t actually understand martial arts, shouldn’t we be letting Trump expend his energy lunging foolishly and stepping out of his way, so that he hurts himself (and the GOP Congress, dammit).
Probably too simplistic, but a sort of political Judo that amplifies and enhances the extreme overreach that is about to be unleashed. High risk times call for high risk strategies, and I think we could stop freaking out or getting angry and get on with revitalizing our decrepit and frustrating democracy. There is no doubt as one looks back at BJ that plenty here have seen the problems and shortcomings.
Why does Trump being president mean that the ‘creative destruction’ will yield the spoils to the GOP? They aren’t good at governing or policy. We are. We can use that.
I gotta get some sleep, I’ve had a very long day of traveling. But I’ll sign off by saying: keep hope. Get angry but focus that anger, use it like a laser beam to get organized to oppose but also to get what you want for your country.
I’m in it to win it. Lets roll.
Darkrose
@Callisto: DBT hasn’t worked well for my anxiety, but I can see where it would be good for BPD and other illnesses where the inability to leave the house isn’t a key component.
Darkrose
@Hal: According to Pence, it’s now down to 400 jobs.
Emerald
@RaflW:
I wouldn’t count on 2018 midterms. First thing they’re gonna do is nuke voting rights. They’ve got two years to perfect that nationally. As an Old, I expect them to go after me first if they want to trash Medicare and SS. They’ll have judges in place to uphold their “reforms.”
Gretchen
@Mnemosyne: good suggestions.
Gretchen
@RaflW: thanks. I need some hope.
BellyCat
@fuckwit: Well done.
Innocence. The sign of an easy mark.
Face the horrors. Understand the horrors. Defeat the horrors.
TerryC
@SiubhanDuinne: I was serious depressed over the loss of the vision on November 8 and got stuck in the anger phase of loss. What got me over it was the catharsis of really telling off some evangelicals who came to my house last week with a Bible.
By the time I ordered them off my property like I was Jehovah, I realized that I had just gotten into a more coping frame of mind. Maybe you need to find someone to yell at ?