Several of you have asked in comments or by email if I’d write a little bit (a lot of bit?) about security. Specifically, personal security. I intended to get this up earlier in the week, but things went sideways on Tuesday, then did an inversion on Wednesday, then a triple lindy yesterday, so…
The first thing that I think is important is something I, and several others, have stressed here in posts and comments: freaking out is not a useful activity. I’m not stating that to pooh pooh anyone’s reactions to the elections, whether they be anger, fear, anxiety, stress, depression, or any combination thereof. All of these are normal and understandable responses. And, of course, if you are feeling really overwhelmed and are having trouble finding/regaining your equilibrium please go see a professional counselor or therapist.
The second thing is don’t do this!
CLEVELAND – Police are investigating the theft of seven guns swiped from a Cleveland home sometime early Tuesday morning.
A mom and her two children were asleep upstairs when she said the thief or thieves broke into the home and cleaned out two gun cabinets. “They’re ready for a war, we were ready for a war,” said Teena Brayen
Brayen and her family are doomsday preppers. “We’re preppers, we believe in preparing for what could happen,” said Brayen.
The Brayens are part of the Three Percenters Club, a militia group that ‘exists to… protect and defend the constitution and our way of life’ by helping people ‘execute Military Strategies to defend against foreign and domestic enemies’.
But the items they wanted to use to defend against invasion in Rome made them a target for invasion in Cleveland.
On November 22, burglars – who, Brayen believes, spotted the weapons when she was moving into the home – took seven guns, 12 machetes, body armor, smoke grenades, more than $1,000 in ammo and some of their food.
Two gun cabinets were emptied of their contents: a high-powered, armor-piercing sniper rifle; five shotguns, and a pellet gun.
Leaving aside the Brayens and the Three Percenters Club, which is not the same as the other Three Percenters, what was missing here was a failure to think security.
Thinking security means to proactively consider what the potential threats might be in order to establish effective, reasonable solutions to them. This means to consider what the potential threats and dangers are to oneself, one’s family, and one’s property (home, business, etc) and what reasonable steps should be taken ahead of time to either deter them or, should deterrence fail, respond to them in the most effective and safe manner possible. This is not just for human threats like crime or terrorism, but also for preparing to deal with natural or man made disasters such as a hurricane or blizzard or earthquake or a gas main explosion or a fracking induced sinkhole or earthquake. To do this one needs to consider several questions.
- Who or what is the threat? And what kind of threat is it?
- Does the location, item, and/or person need to be secured against a potential threat?
- What is the extent of the location’s vulnerability?
- Does the potential security countermeasure need to be human, animal, technological, or a combination of them?
- How far can I, and how would I go about, extending my secure zone away from myself, my family, my home, etc?
- What effect will the potential security response have on me, my family, my friends, my neighbors, my employees, coworkers, and/or customers?
If you live in Florida and you’re largely concerned with hurricane season (and the occasional Floriduh man and woman), the answers are going to focus on how to secure one’s home, business, and/or other property from high winds, driving rains, storm surge, and flooding. Your response is going to focus on ensuring that you and your family have enough supplies – food and water, medications, alternate power sources, other emergency supplies – to either shelter in place and ride the storm out or the resources to evacuate early or to evacuate ahead of the storm to an acceptable shelter. And don’t forget to think about what to do with your pets!
However, if your concern now is a response to the uptick and spike in hate crimes since the election, then your potential responses would be different. And this is where I want to change the tack of the discussion a bit. Personal security that arises from the fear of other people, even when that fear is or may be rational, is not the same thing as just making sure you’ve got a week’s worth of food, water, etc and a generator in case of a bad storm. While the questions above may still be applicable, the consideration of them needs to shift. The first thing that will need to be done is to grapple with whether there is a very real threat that needs to be deterred or that might need to be responded to. There’s no one size fits all solution because there are far too many variables for me or anyone else to just write: if you do X, you’ll be fine.
Keeping this caveat in mind here are a few things you can do to enhance your and your family’s personal security, as well as security at your business, congregation, or any other organization you belong to.
- Invest in good locks: for under $200 you can put good quality deadbolts on your doors, as well as additional locking mechanisms on sliding glass doors/windows and window frames so you can open your windows a bit for ventilation and not have to worry about them being forced. You can also, for a reasonable price, harden your doors if you don’t have heavy duty/security doors.
- Invest in some motion sensor lights if you live in such a place that would allow you to install them. I tend to use the solar powered ones. They’re not as bright, but I don’t have to worry about batteries or the electricity going out.
- If you’ve been thinking about getting a dog keep in mind that many of them will make a good early warning system and decide if you want to include that consideration when you adopt.
- If you have a garage, park your car/cars in it. (Yes, this means you have to get your stuff out of the way and no, I have no idea why builders in PA build 3+ bedroom homes with one car garages)
- Install a video doorbell, preferably one with motion sensing tech that alerts you, via your phone or tablet, and gives you video when someone just approaches the door regardless of if they ring the bell.
- Get a few, good, high lumen flashlights (I like the Anker ones). Carry a small one in your purse if you carry a purse or in your pocket and keep a larger one accessible in the car. Blinding light right in the eyes can work wonders. As can prodding someone with one if necessary.
- Make sure your smoke detector batteries are good, your CO2 detector batteries are good (if you have one of these), and your fire extinguishers are also up to date.
- Make a plan with your family, and if you and your neighbors get on well, with your neighbors. It should include who is going to contact and check in with who, where to meet up, who is responsible for securing or taking care of or picking up who, what to do in case of a natural or man made disaster such as a hurricane or flood or earthquake. Things like that. This should also be done for your business, congregation, and other organizations you belong to.
- Make sure you and at least one other family member has CPR and first aid training. And make a first aid kit in something portable like a backpack. I like the Mayo Clinic’s suggestions for what to get.
This brings us to the final two things that I think need to be addressed. The first is fear or anxiety or stress. If you are having this type of response and its making you feel vulnerable, and you want to do something to prepare for the worst do not take a self defense course. People that take self defense courses go in scared and able to be hurt or killed. They come out scared and able to hurt or kill. These types of courses are not designed to get at the underlying issues in a systematic way. So if you feel you have to do something, and you’re willing to give it a try, skip right to a martial art taught by a legitimate and experienced instructor. The purpose of this training isn’t just, or isn’t really, the physical components of strike, lock, pin, but rather to use the psycho-motor skills training of learning them to access the internal energy, psychological, emotional, and mental components of those who study these systems and disciplines. It’ll take longer to be physically proficient, but you’ll start to see some of the internal benefits in a few months. Between myself and several of the other martial artists that comment here, we should be able to provide some suggestions in the comments.
The final one is firearms. To me this is an even more intensely personal question or issue. Guns, both handguns and long guns, are tools. In the right hands at the right times in the right places they can be tremendously effective. In other hands at other times and at other places not so much. As I mentioned in the comments to several questions about this, as well as to several emails from commenters/lurkers, I came to the use of firearms very late (I was 37) and for professional reasons (as part of my pre deployment training for Iraq). I had been doing martial arts for 24 years at that point and had some basic familiarity instruction with guns, but not a lot of practice or experience. Now, because I’ve been asked at least once a year for the past four years, if I would be willing to deploy, I go for regular training with a SWAT tactical training instructor to maintain my skills. I’m not recommending anyone get one and I’m not recommending one not getting one. I’m not advocating for anything here, nor should any decision I may or may not make in regard to firearms be an example for anyone else.
That said there are several questions that one needs to answer for themselves when considering getting a firearm, especially if its for self defense purposes
- Do you, your spouse/SO, parent child/children, roommate, or anyone else that might be living with you think that if push came to shove you could bring the weapon to bear and shoot it if necessary (seriously injuring and/or killing what you are aiming at, whether person or animal)? If you all can not answer yes without qualifications, you shouldn’t get it. Having it and being unable to use it is as bad, if not worse, than not having it.
-
Are you,your spouse/SO, parent child/children, roommate, or anyone else that might be living with you willing to commit to proper instruction and training in the use and maintenance of a firearm?
-
Do you have a plan to secure the weapon, but in such a way that it is accessible when needed?
- Does anyone in the home have a mental health issue? If so you may not want to bring a gun into the dynamic. And if someone in the home should develop a mental health issue, do you have a plan for securing the weapon away from him or her (offsite) and an alternative self-defense/security plan for once the gun is removed?
-
Do you want this only for home defense or are you planning on conceal carrying it?
- Put your hand in your pocket. Now have someone run at you from 33 feet away while screaming at you. Try to remove your hand from your pocket and point it at the person running at you before they can touch you on the shoulder. If this exercise freaked you out, getting a gun for self defense may not be for you. Are you willing to commit to regular instruction from a professional to overcome this response? If not, then getting a gun for self defense may not be for you.
- Do you want a long gun (rifle or shotgun) or handgun (self loading semi-automatic pistol or revolver)? If its a handgun, how is your hand strength? Are you able to rack the slide/charge a semi-auto pistol? If not, then a revolver might be better. How is your arm strength? Revolvers with barrels of four inches or longer will be quite heavy? As will be some rifles and shotguns?
- Where do you live? An apartment? A Condo? A one wall attached house? A single family home? All of these are considerations in regard to firearm and ammunition choice.
I think that’s enough for now. I’ll be around in comments.
Ian
If it is indeed possible to assemble a ninja brigade to take away these RWNJ’s guns without harming anyone involved, then we should do so. In fact! this is what we should have started years ago!
NotMax
Pooh-pooh. Poo poo is a whole ‘nother, um, fetish. ;)
Major Major Major Major
@Ian: if we had had a 50-state strategy instead of DWS we would ALREADY HAVE a ninja brigade. Fucking Dems.
Adam L Silverman
@NotMax: fixed
Mary G
Those 3%-er people are deplorable to me. The second batch has a story from Fox about a 7-year-old girl excited that she shot her first deer. I’m all for girl power, but I will never understand killing animals for fun.
Ithink
Thanks so much for this! We already have an ADT security alarm and glass storm doors in the front & back if the house but I this is fascinating and deeply useful info nevertheless.
Hopefully as Madly tanned Mussolini’s soon-to-be installed presidency rolls along these sorts of political extremists become quite a bit more repulsive to our truly lamestream media and elusive in actual numbers but that doesn’t stop them from being the scary S.O.B’s they are right now. I have the unfortunate gnawing reality of wavering inner feeling that things will get far worse before they get better; since I’ve been wrong about so much this year thus far, maybe they won’t…(?)
Ian
@Major Major Major Major:
Sorry about the snark on the other thread. I re-read it after I was done typing it and all I could think was -“damn. I am an asshole”.
Omnes Omnibus
Your question 1 is one that I put a lot of thought into before I joined the army. Luckily, I have never been put in the position of having to find out if I really would be able to do it. Also about 20 years ago, I was mugged by three guys who just came around corner and attacked me. Had I been carrying, I could not have gotten to my weapon in time to do anything. At best, a pistol would have been useless; at worst, they would have seen and taken it – thus providing three guys who were happy to use violence with a firearm. One final quick thought: I lost some blood and $50 in that mugging. IMO, that isn’t worth a human life.
Truegster
I took several years of Wu-Shu and it reminded me of taking a dance class. We had to switch our dominant hand/feet and do the same forms, it really made some part of my brain light up, it was a great experience. The Chinese Martial Arts institute in Fairfax VA, I highly recommend them. I can still do side splits because of it.
Feebog
Rather than purchasing a gun, I urge people to consider adopting a dog. We currently have two, both Golden Retriever/Chow mix. They are sweet dogs, but extremely protective of their territory. That means a lot of barking, but I don’t mind, as anyone with bad intentions will definitely think twice. We also vary the times they are inside and outside, and often one is in and one is out. Lastly, a good, well trained dog or dogs will bring you much joy and love, which a .357 will never do.
jacy
From what I can tell from 30 seconds on Facebook (Because I’m supposed to be working, dammit), Trump is going to start a land war with Asia sometime before the inauguration, maybe before Christmas. Everybody is freaking out because he’s willy-nilly talking to anyone who has a phone line and lives in a foreign country. Is this as genuinely worrisome as 30-seconds perusal of Facebook says? I mean, I think it’s bad, but I’ve felt a tad hysterical lately for some reason…..
debbie
Even if it’s in your garage, your car should be locked.
Omnes Omnibus
@Feebog:
The Beatles disagree.
Major Major Major Major
@Ian: jog my memory? Or, if you’d prefer, don’t.
Adam L Silverman
@Omnes Omnibus: That’s what it all comes down to: a combination of the answer to question 1 and the actual circumstances under which you might have to use your firearm. So if you think/believe you could do so will you have a chance to draw it? Will you have a clean field of fire? Are you able to actually determine the target you need to stop? All of those things come into play. Not everyone spent 15+ years in Special Operations.
debbie
@jacy:
Talking to Taiwan made China unhappy, which isn’t a good thing.
Adam L Silverman
@jacy: I’m tracking that. I’ll have a post on strategic miscommunication and its perils up over the weekend.
SiubhanDuinne
Thanks for this, Adam. It’s a helpful expansion on the notes you sent the other night when I was contemplating arming myself. (FTR, right now I am inclined not to. But the questions you pose are important, and I’ve bookmarked them.)
This is mostly unrelated, and you may not feel it is altogether in your wheelhouse, but I would love to know your thoughts on the various (un)diplomatic overtures made by the president-elect in the last few days:
* He tells the PM of the UK “If you ever happen to be visiting the US, be sure and give me a call.”
* He holds a private meeting with the Japanese PM, accompanied by his daughter.
* He talks to the PM of Pakistan, saying (paraphrased, as are all my “quotes”), “You are fantastic, your country is fantastic, the Pakistani people are fantastic, let me know if there’s anything I can do for you.”
* He talks to the President of Taiwan, potentially jeopardizing close to 40 years of delicate relations with Beijing.
AFAICT, many or most of these calls took place on unsecured phone lines. And I’m sure I’m overlooking some additional examples. Is he simply a loose cannon? Is he merely pretending to be a loose cannon for reasons that I’m too stupid to fathom? Or is this a series of incredibly canny multi-dimensional chess moves?
I would not want to be John Kerry right about now.
Adam L Silverman
@Feebog: I’m not advocating, recommending, and/or suggesting buying a gun. Several people asked me about it in comments or by email, so it made sense to address it in the post.
Villago Delenda Est
Adam, if these idiots could actually think these things through, they might be formidable. As it is, they’re “prepped” for FAIL.
Adam L Silverman
@SiubhanDuinne: I’m a week overdue on a post on strategic miscommunication and its peril. I intend to do a post on it over the weekend. Has a great video with classic 1980s music too!
Omnes Omnibus
@Adam L Silverman: I came down with a yes to question 1. OTOH, given my lifestyle and home environment, I cannot come up with any situation in which having a firearm for self defense is sensible.
Adam L Silverman
@Villago Delenda Est: There was a flaw in their plan…
Adam L Silverman
@Omnes Omnibus: Tracking. Its an intensely personal decision that should not be made lightly.
debbie
@SiubhanDuinne:
I was just listening to an interview with Nicholas Burns on The World. He pointed out that many people mistakenly think diplomacy means talking nice to people. Trump will fail before he even begins.
Omnes Omnibus
@Adam L Silverman: Agreed. I would not presume to make the judgment for someone else. I would only hope that the someone else put serious thought into it before making the decision. Full disclosure: I own two shotguns and a rifle – primarily used for skeet, trap, and target shooting. I don’t keep ammo in the apartment.
Adam L Silverman
@Omnes Omnibus: 100% agreed. No argument here.
SiubhanDuinne
No offense at all to the name, but I don’t think I’ve ever seen “Tina” spelled “Teena,” and now twice in one day, WTF?
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/trump-voter-lost-home-steve-mnuchin
Gretchen
@Adam L Silverman: I’m also wondering what will happen when an overseas Trump hotel is attacked. Is the military going to have to protect them all?
Adam L Silverman
@SiubhanDuinne: The latter is a naturalized American from England. I saw her interviewed. I personally believe that every naturalized American, especially those with a pronounced accent, that voted for Trump should be asked: papers?!?! where are your papers?!?! in a faux East German accent every time they walk by.//
Gin & Tonic
@Adam L Silverman: Somehow I’ve made 62 trips around the sun on this spinning rock without feeling the need to own a firearm. I think the rest of my journey will be similar.
Adam L Silverman
@Gretchen: Its going to be an outstanding question. As will his properties’ security here within the US. I do not think the US military will accept orders to protect his properties abroad. I definitely don’t think they will within the US. The bigger issue is what the increased threat profile is going to do to the tenancy rates for both his hotels and his apartments, as well as his resorts and the usage rates at his golf courses.
jacy
@Adam L Silverman:
Thanks, because I hate to freak out for no good reason, when there are so many perfectly good ones.
Omnes Omnibus
@SiubhanDuinne: Teena Marie. Among other things, she was Motown’s biggest selling white solo act.
Adam L Silverman
@Gin & Tonic: No argument here. Again, I’m not advocating, suggesting, and/or recommending them. But I was asked about the topic and I wanted to give an honest answer with the relevant information.
SiubhanDuinne
@Omnes Omnibus:
Ah, I have heard of her but always assumed her name was spelt “Tina.” Thanks for this.
Adam L Silverman
@jacy: Its something to be concerned about. But he’s not actually the President yet, though I have the feeling the only person willing to and actually telling him that is the current President.
Roger Moore
@Adam L Silverman:
It’s increasingly clear that whatever strategic communication Trump may be engaging in, his metamessage is that he’s a loose cannon with no clue of what he’s doing.
Omnes Omnibus
@SiubhanDuinne: Almost always happy to help.
Pogonip
@Gretchen: Interesting question. I’d say No, but then again I’m not a lawyer.
Guns and dogs aren’t either/or. There is, in fact, such a thing as a…GUN DOG! Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha–what? What?
gbear
I’d like to add one more thing to consider when deciding if a gun is right for you:
“Do you or anyone in your household suffer from symptoms of depression?”
It’s reason #1 why I won’t have a gun in my house.
WaPo had an awful story today about a family who lost a child due to a toddler getting hold of a loaded gun. The family’s attraction to guns is (to me) unreal.
Adam L Silverman
@Roger Moore: That too.
Pogonip
@Adam L Silverman: I know if I had a lease in a Trump property, the gun dog and I would move the hell out yesterday. All those properties have targets on them.
Major Major Major Major
@Roger Moore: yeah, it’s definitely becoming clear that he actually knows exactly what he’s doing in that department.
Roger Moore
@debbie:
It does mean talking nice to people, but only in a narrower sense than most people think. The goal is to communicate very precisely so the other side won’t get any unintended meaning from what you’re saying. That means not saying anything that might anger or upset somebody unless your goal is to anger or upset them.
Adam L Silverman
@Pogonip: From what I’ve read everyone who can is moving out of Trump Tower – they want out before it becomes a completely locked camp and they’re selling at a loss or paying the break the lease penalty to get out.
Culture of Truth
I get what you’re saying about martial arts or self-defense classes, but as long as they are good classes they can be good for fitness, and even for defense under certain circumstances. Not necessarily against terrorists, but possibly more every day situations.
Chip Daniels
We live in downtown Los Angeles in an apartment building 4 blocks from Skid Row.
We never lock our door. We have no guns. We take strolls in the evening.
Look, the biggest fear and threat to most anyone is the people who are terrified of the mythological urban crime and chaos.
Its not that crime doesn’t occur; its that crime is way down in recent decades, lower than in most people’s lifetimes.
Most crime that does occur is between people who know each other, and between criminals.
There are no guarantees of safety. But most of us are far more likely to die in our cars than at the hands of a stranger.
raven
I have a number of guns. None of them are loaded and the ammo I have is no where near them. I remember losing it after Kent State and vowing I would never have a firearm for protection because I know it/they would have to be loaded and nearby if they would be effective. I carried loaded weapons in both Asian stops but never “fired them in anger” as my old man used to say. I guess I’m lucky that I’ve lived in what I consider safe areas in both Illinois and here in Georgia. I just refuse to live in fear.
a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)
My father drilled into me the risk that firearms kept in the house could be stolen, and that owners are ultimately responsible for all acts committed with guns they own. Which is not to say that there were not guns in our house, but they were secure in a gun safe that was not easily removable – if at all – and had a pretty sophisticated combination lock. Going trap shooting involved a complicated preparation, to say the least.
He also emphasized that untrained users were extremely likely to have a gun taken away from, and used against them. He insisted that I be trained, though I haven’t kept it up, as my life has presented no need to qualify. So I suspect my accuracy is completely substandard.
I’ve done a similar demonstration taught to me by a veteran/police lt. If you can get your keys out of your purse/pocket before I get across the room to get you, you might possibly have a chance of using a gun carried/within easy reach defensively. So far no one can. Although he strictly advised me against this (though he does it in his demonstrations) I take the keys away from the men once I get there. Thus far no one has managed to produce keys.
I won’t presume to offer anyone here advice about a gun for protection, but I’ll second Adam’s advice. His questions to answer are really important, and his recommendations about home security are what police here recommend. As to self defense classes, a friend who was brutally attacked was turned away from a self defense class until she got counseling to work on her fear. She was impressed by the instructor’s requirement and took the class after counseling. The surgeon who repaired he broken jaw also asked her to get counseling prior to referring her for the cosmetic portion of the procedures.
Adam L Silverman
@Roger Moore: Its also recognizing are you dealing with high or low context communicators? Do they also have an honor/shame social dynamic? Are they monochronic or polychronic? Do you have a BATNA – best alternative to a negotiated agreement – that you’ll settle for? Have you worked out the other side’s BATNA? Because contrary to what many think, these things are not zero sum.
Omnes Omnibus
@Roger Moore:
Or to communicate so vaguely that you have actually said and committed to nothing without resorting to things like “no comment.” All depending on what your goal is.
LesGS
Maybe another question about whether to have a gun in the house should be what is the general state of mind of those living there. I wouldn’t have a gun in MY house because more than one of my family members deals with chronic depression, and one bad down-swing and easy access to a gun could be devastating.
I was a bit of a worry-wart when my kids were young and visiting neighborhood friends, whether there was a gun in that house and how well secured it was.
raven
@LesGS: That’s not being a worry wart that’s being a parent.
a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)
@gbear: Indeed I should have mentioned that. Means matter, and guns are an especially lethal method of suicide. In 2014 firearm suicides were nearly half the total suicides in the US: 21,334 of 42,773 total suicides. A depressed person will have a much more difficult time committing suicide with a gun in a home without a gun. That’s obvious, but many (most?) people are unaware of the percentage of firearm deaths that are suicide.
Mary G
@Chip Daniels: @raven:
This. The people I know who have guns and alarms and floodlights are all terrified of things that go bump in the night. None of them have ever been a victim of a crime. Yet they consider me a naive idiot. I feel sorry for them.
RepubAnon
@debbie: I was expecting Trump to start a war in the South China Sea in late 2019 so he’d have the country united behind him in 2020. Now, it appears that he’s looking at 2018.
I expect his good buddy Vlad would like the US and China to start a shooting war, so that Russia can grab Ukraine, Estonia, Latvia, and maybe Poland without US interference.
Adam L Silverman
@a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q): I included that question just for you.
RealityBites
Very small sample size, but I know several people who were one-issue Trump voters, and so far it’s an issue i haven’t seen addressed in analysis of the election. That issue was GUNZ! They were convinced Hillary would take their guns and that it would be almost impossible to stop her if she was elected. They seem like nice, normal people, but when it comes to guns and gun control, they are totally deranged. No appeals to logic or common sense will get through to them. Other RWNJs are totally bonkers on other issues, so it’s hard to know just what ordinary event might set them off. It’s very difficult to plan for the crazy, but it’s better to have thought about your personal security situation and taken reasonable measures than to have no plan at all.
On a personal note, I was trained with guns by my father, a WWII veteran, and used to hunt. Living in a rural area, I have had to “put down” badly injured animals when no vet was available, and once used a gun to chase off two men that were breaking into my house. When my mom was home alone one day, we had a home invasion robbery. And yet, I am waaay less fearful for my personal security than nearly anyone I know. Everyone has their own level of comfort. And maybe, in these times, I’m not paranoid enough.
RepubAnon
@Mary G: If you think the bad guys are going to attack your house, perimeter defenses are your friend. Whether to become proficient with firearms depends upon anticipated police response times.
Adam L Silverman
@LesGS: @gbear: I’ve added this. Its not that I’d forgot it, its just I take it as a given. So I amended the questions to make it explicit. Good catch!
Adam L Silverman
@Mary G: I do to. But folks asked my professional opinion, and I’ve done this type of security assessment and advising, so…
Omnes Omnibus
@RepubAnon: Claymore!
raven
@Adam L Silverman: We just figured we should weigh in too.
Adam L Silverman
@RealityBites: Some buyer’s remorse may be starting to slowly seep in, but I expect the learning curve to be very flat:
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2016/12/robert-farago/arent-glad-tim-kaine-isnt-vice-president-elect/
a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)
@Adam L Silverman: I thought it was pretty cool that you use it while going fast and screaming, and my buddy and I can’t find people who can pass when we walk – quickly, to be fair – quietly from 20 feet. So many have told me “I’m not afraid of you!” to which I’d then said “and you think you’ll be calmer when you’re surprised and scared?” Unless they’re men who say that, and I tell them “that’s a mistake.” Because I’m a bad person, and I probably also just grabbed their keys out of their hand because it never occurred to them that I could.
Adam L Silverman
@raven: I know and no problem there. I just want to make sure everyone doesn’t think I’m some sort of paranoid here?
Have you heard anyone saying I’m paranoid? Or just talking about me? Or even just looking this way?
raven
@Adam L Silverman: Who dat?
Adam L Silverman
@a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q): I also tend to do it while waving a wooden training knife around. And considering I’m 5’11, 270 and can close that distance pretty quickly, its good fun – for me!
Adam L Silverman
@raven: Is this some sort of New Orleans Saints thing?
raven
@Adam L Silverman:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEkJ5CEhKos
LesGS
@raven: Yeah, I guess so! Having a kid is like having your heart walking around unprotected outside your chest.
LesGS
@Adam L Silverman: Thank you.
Miss Bianca
@Mary G: Not everyone kills animals for fun. Around here we kill for food. If we have fun while we’re hunting, well…that’s a whole ‘nother dispute.
Jeffro
@RealityBites:
It doesn’t qualify as ‘data’, but the various wingers in my life seem to have been mainlining messages meant straight for their hot-button, purely emotional issues, “gun-grabbing” being one of them. Others were: churches being taxed into bankruptcy under Hillz, racial favoritism in all things, job opportunities in particular (to the point where white were being “oppressed”), health care costs going up due to Obamacare (because we all know there were no double-digit increases in premiums until 2010), and so on.
You’d almost have to think that based on people’s psychometric profiles, they were targeted for the very things that would ramp up their fear responses and drive them to the polls in high numbers.
Nah…
raven
@Miss Bianca: You want to point out where she said everyone killed animals for fun?
Omnes Omnibus
@Miss Bianca: Some people enjoy gardening.
Mary G
@Adam L Silverman: Why is this such an emotional hook? They just spent eight years buying more and more guns because Obama was going to try to take them away. Why doesn’t it sink in that he made no such attempt and that they are having their buttons pushed by agents of gun manufacturers who want to take their money away?
Miss Bianca
@Adam L Silverman: @Omnes Omnibus: I’d end up saying “no” to all those questions in dealing with shooting another human so…no handguns for me. Not to use on people, anyway. A bear, a rattler, coyotes threatening my dogs…yeah, I could definitely bring myself to shoot an animal. You still need chops and reflexes, tho’.
Feebog
@Adam L Silverman:
No, I understand you are not making any recommendation, I just happen to think dogs are much better alternative for home protection, especially foe someone with no experience with firearms.
jacy
Re: security. I always had a gun until I had children. (I grew up in a ranching family.) In college, when I drove alone from U of Wyo to Colorado, I kept a loaded pistol under my seat. But I knew how to use and would not have hesitated to, because I had been trained for years. Once I was no longer driving long distances alone, I quit carrying in the car. Haven’t had a gun in the house since I had the first kid (27 years ago), and I won’t. We do have a security system and sensor lights, and I’ll always have a couple of dogs with big booming barks. I don’t worry too much.
Adam L Silverman
@Mary G: Because they are convinced that he would if he could and just because he hasn’t doesn’t mean he won’t. Also, have you seen what Gavin Newsome and Kamala Harris did in CA or the AG in Massachusetts or Cuomo in NY with the SAFE Act? Those guns have been grabbed! So someones grabbing the guns!!!!!
raven
I remember an ESPN special on athletes packing. One dude said after a while everything started to look like a threat so he stopped.
Jeffro
@a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q):
HIGHLY educational: for once, 538 had a piece that informed called “Gun Deaths in America”. Totally changed how I see these things. As a parent I have this outsize fear about school shootings, but it’s much more likely that at some point one of my kids might get depressed and use a gun to kill themselves. Quite sobering.
Omnes Omnibus
@Mary G: I think there is a fantasy element to it. With their guns, they see themselves as heroic outsiders who are prepared to fend off evil government agents or Cuban soldiers parachuting into Colorado. Without their guns, they are just guys who mow the lawn and grill ribs on the weekend.
Adam L Silverman
@Miss Bianca: I tend to get my chops from the butcher, so unless you’ve got a feral hog issue, you may want to consider that option.
JustRuss
@Adam L Silverman: Christ, you’d think these morons would notice that after 8 years of being told Obama was going to take their guns, they’re being played. But then, morons.
Adam L Silverman
@Feebog: I agree 100%. Also, I’m a big fan of dogs, which is a good thing because I usually have two of them lounging on me.
Adam L Silverman
@raven: Also, he was traded out of Florida… (only partially //)
SiubhanDuinne
@Omnes Omnibus:
Almost? Almost? Do I need to haul out my Mob Enforcer persona for the second night in a row?
Miss Bianca
@raven: Quoth Mary G: “I’m all for girl power, but I will never understand killing animals for fun.”
To me, the clear implication was that that she considered that seven-year-old girl to be killing animals for fun. I was pointing out that even if she were having fun doing it, there might be other reasons beside “fun” for shooting a deer. YMMV.
Adam L Silverman
@JustRuss: There’s still six weeks to inauguration day. Also, as I actually explained to them in a guest post (long story), Hitler both loosened for Germans that weren’t Jewish and tightened for Jewish Germans the Treaty of Versailles imposed firearms laws. So if they think that an authoritarian oriented US government wouldn’t lock stuff down if it decided it needed to, they’re delusional.
Jeffro
@Mary G:
@Adam L Silverman:
I see Adam already covered this. The simplest explanation is, to the paranoid, even a lack of evidence is evidence. Obama held off on confiscating guns…so he could do it the day before Trump’s inauguration and then declare martial law…or he’s got agents out in the states and they’re grabbing guns but the media isn’t reporting it…or Jade Helm I was just to lull all of us sheeples and any day now Jade Helm II (unannounced, of course) will be launched and then where will you be, libtards?
Like that.
raven
@Omnes Omnibus: Milius!
RealityBites
@Mary G: About hunting: I gave it up and am now a vegetarian “transitioning” to vegan. I no longer want something to die so I can eat. Peace, sister.?
Omnes Omnibus
@SiubhanDuinne: Come on, are you always happy to help? Don’t you sometimes feel like just saying, “FFS, just go google it?”
Adam L Silverman
@Jeffro: Never forget!
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-pyRVN-ejoJY/VavIekSRLhI/AAAAAAABj2o/QQStBnuDBts/s1600/1%2Ba%2Bjade%2Bhelm.jpg
raven
@Miss Bianca: She didn’t consider diddly shit, she commented on a story about a girl being excited about killing a deer.
Feathers
One of the things about spending time in the country and guns when I was young was learning that I am a terrible shot. Found out why when I married into a serious gun and hunting family. Apparently I’m right handed, but left eye dominant. My father in law did offer to get me a rifle scope which would compensate for that, which I did appreciate, but I have decided to remain in the ranks of the hopelessly bad shots. It’s funny how that sort of diffuses the question of are you pro or anti gun when I’m with gun folks. In my Cambridge-Boston circle, I’m often if not usually the only person who has fired a gun.
It amazes me how being creepily high strung and heavy into drama correlates with female gun ownership, at least in my experience. But it could just be my former in-laws.
Omnes Omnibus
@RealityBites:
Source
debbie
@Jeffro:
It’s also an effective fundraising tool.
raven
@Feathers: That’s what scatterguns are for.
SiubhanDuinne
@gbear:
@LesGS:
I have been generally, if mostly mildly, depressed for about a year, and rather seriously so since election night. At no time have I contemplated taking my own life, and I like to think that having a firearm close to hand wouldn’t have made a difference — but who knows? I’m not willing to risk it. I sought out Adam’s opinions a few nights ago, and he responded with several provocative and helpful questions to consider. I’m about 98% sure now that I will not acquire a weapon. The depression is a compelling, but not the only, reason.
Miss Bianca
@raven: And why exactly are you getting snippy with me over this point, fish-killer? You know, I’ll just never understand people who kill fish for fun. //
Pogonip
@raven: I wonder if that was the testosterone talking. I’ve always packed when it seemed prudent and things seemed LESS scary because I had my friend with me.
In teeny-tiny West Deplorable I very, very rarely pack; this will probably be the town where the gang of zombie ninja does me in. The gods of the copybook headings will not be mocked!
SiubhanDuinne
Speaking of guns, has anyone seen Miss Sloane? Reviews are mixed, but it sounds like a movie I might enjoy and I’m thinking of seeing it in the next few days. If anyone here can comment, I’d be glad to know your thoughts.
Feathers
I hate motion lights with a passion. I live in a very safe neighborhood in a one story house. I have an older house with cross ventilation and try not to put in a window AC unless absolutely needed. Must summers I don’t. This means my windows are open in the summer. At least two neighbors have motion lights in their back yards which are constantly turning on and off, shining into my windows. I really want to go over and point out that I’m sleeping on the ground floor with open windows, why do they think they need the lights? But I don’t. Some of it is everyone getting central air conditioning as well, so windows aren’t open at night. Sigh. Part of why I’m moving.
Adam L Silverman
@Feathers: @raven: There are two solutions to this. 1) For handguns, bring the firearm up and push out to aim, rotate your right hands about five to ten degrees to your left to align the sights and sight picture with your dominant left eye. 2) As you perform your draw and push out to aim, close your dominant left eye and keep your non dominant right eye open and align the front sight and sight picture with your right eye. Your right eye will compensate because the left eye has been closed and will function as if its your dominant eye.
For long guns you have to learn to shoot left handed.
LesGS
@Omnes Omnibus: I had a friend whose older brother almost died back in the 70s because he was a fruitarian. They found him lying under an apple tree waiting for the apples to fall. Now, this was in Julian, California, so he might have been sorta okay in the Fall. But it was Spring.
Jeffro
@Adam L Silverman: Nice!
I’m beginning to think that’s the only way to “pants” these clowns – set a date certain to publicly evaluate who was right and who was wrong when it comes to the crazy stuff. The true believers will…truly believe…that setting a date just gives incentive to the forces of evil to hang in there and fake it until we’re past the date and THEN, OH YES THEN, that’s when Jade Helm REALLY kicks into gear, or Obama confiscates all the guns in the US, or whatever. But at least a few of the “lightly paranoid” might wake up, and in the meantime low-info bystanders get a chance to recognize, “Those folks are nuts”
In a similar vein, it costs nothing now to put Rs on the hook for future elections: “You’re COMPLETELY ok if a Dem wins by 2.5M popular votes but loses the EC, right? No complaints, them’s just the rules of the game, right? That’s a legitimate president with a mandate, right?” And so on. I know Rs won’t honor it, but it at least gives us a chance to beat them about the head and neck with their hypocrisy.
Adam L Silverman
@Feathers: Look on the upside: free disco lighting!
Pogonip
@SiubhanDuinne: Guns are like dogs. If you can’t quite decide whether you should get one–you shouldn’t.
This is particularly true of gun dogs. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha–what? What?
Omnes Omnibus
@Adam L Silverman: I qualified expert with a .45 both right and left handed. I am very right eye dominant, so shooting lefty simply meant lining up the sight with my right eye. I found that I leaned my head rather than rotated the pistol.
Adam L Silverman
@Pogonip: I hate it when my lab mixes negligently discharge…
raven
@Miss Bianca: Don’t be sweatin my pal.
Pogonip
@Feathers: I actually like my neighbor’s motion light. My room is exceedingly dark; if I wake up at night, like as not his haphazard motion light will be on, providing me with just enough light to see my glasses!
Pogonip
@Adam L Silverman: Oh boy! We haven’t had a good dog fart story in ages! Carry on, please.
raven
@Omnes Omnibus: You better off throwing that thang at em.
Adam L Silverman
@Omnes Omnibus: I’m left eye dominant. I can shoot with both hands. My SWAT sniper and tactical training friend recommends adjusting your hands slightly by rotating towards the dominant eye rather than adjusting the head, which is how I originally learned how to do it. Which worked great until I got into body armor and kevlar and given my 18 inch neck and the 62 inch circumference around my upper shoulders, I could no longer tilt my head far enough to even get the sight aligned with my ear!
jenn
@Miss Bianca: I interpreted all that in the same way you did, and had the same response. A person can feel happy in a successful hunt without being in any way sadistically gleeful about the killing part. There are many hunters for whom hunting is a test of skill, an opportunity to provide food for a family, a way of taking responsibility for the food that one eats, and a deeply personal connection to place and home and nature.
Pogonip
@Omnes Omnibus: I do that too. My dad (who was a small-arms instructor) frowned on it.
The neighbor’s security light just came on. It’s been whackadoodle since he left. Maybe it misses him. (He’s in Far, Far South Deplorable, aka Florida, for the winter.)
Pogonip
@Adam L Silverman: Never mind that. I want to hear about the discharging Labs. Was the elevator crowded?
Omnes Omnibus
@raven: Mine was actually quite well put together. Some were so loose that occasionally hitting the target was a miracle. My battery commander borrowed mine for qualifying. Having an armorer who likes you doesn’t hurt.
Adam L Silverman
@raven: Only if its a Ruger. Those things are built like tanks!
raven
@jenn: Yea, most 7 year olds can make that distinction.
Pogonip
@Miss Bianca: Most people shooting a deer are probably thinking of venison. And antlers, some of them.
Adam L Silverman
@Pogonip: Does he have a red Toyota Tundra with a Trump sticker on the back bumper? If so, he’s my next door neighbor. Got back down here right before the election. Verdammt snowbirds!
Omnes Omnibus
@Adam L Silverman: Interesting.
Adam L Silverman
@Pogonip: We live in a house.
raven
@Omnes Omnibus: Mines was loose.
Adam L Silverman
@Omnes Omnibus: Amen to the armorer. There is no telling who had your duty issued firearm before you got it. The OCD keep it clean and well taken care of guy or the guy that used it as a hammer.
Pogonip
Adam, do you think ammo prices will go down once Obama leaves office? I’m skeptical. The metal merchants have had 8 years to train everyone to pay ridiculous prices and I bet it keeps up.
Adam L Silverman
@Omnes Omnibus: I’m also built like a tank… Or a grizzly bear. Take your pick!
raven
@Adam L Silverman: You guys didn’t have your own?
Pogonip
@Adam L Silverman: So where was the discharge? Details, man, details! We want a Labrador sitrep! (From their owner, not the Labs themselves.)
Pogonip
@Adam L Silverman: No, he has a big old boat of a green Olds. (The light just came back on, it must have heard us typing about him.)
laura
@Omnes Omnibus: she was/is awesome! Thanks for the reminder.
Amaranthine RBG
Adam
First think you for a very balanced, thoughtful post.
I have a bit of experience with firearms, do a lot of action pistol/ practical pistol/ three gun shooting, and am an NRA instructor. I want to underline something you said:
Most people who own firearms lack adequate training in defensive use. Hell, many don’t have any training at all.
If you are going to get a gun for defensive purposes, you have an obligation to train yourself to use it properly and, more importantly, to know when trying to use it is a bad idea. This doesn’t mean shooting it at a range a couple of times a year.
Think of it this way – pick a physical activity that you do – golf, fly fishing, tennis, whatever. Do you think you could do that for a 3-4 hours a year and be competent at it. Handling a firearm – particularly under stressful situations – is no different.
Feathers
@raven: Yeah, my brother is a cop and has pointed out that I am the target market for a shotgun. He also points out that the chambering sound is a deterrent on its own. I have a history of depression, so I would have to have a well founded need for a gun before I’d take the risk of keeping one in the house.
Adam L Silverman
@Pogonip: I have no idea. Honestly, when I need stuff to go train, I use the online sites like SGAmmo, which has good prices for decent stuff. Other than when .22 lr was hard to find, I never found the prices to be too out of whack, but I’m also training with really common stuff: 9mm, 5.56 or .223, .45. Nothing funky like .40 S&W or any of the boutique rifle calibers.
raven
@Amaranthine RBG: That’s no way to live.
raven
@Feathers: Rack that mofo.
raven
@Adam L Silverman: Damn 30-30’s for my winchester were a buck a piece. I want to shoot the thing once anyway!
Juice Box
I have dogs.
I didn’t grow up around guns because when mom was 14 and her brother almost 12, a target shooter accidentally shot the boy in the head and killed him. My mom is 80 and she’s still angry about it. My grandparents were devastated for the rest of their lives. I can’t believe that the benefit of a gun outweighs the risk.
Anne Laurie
Caveat on the GET A DOG issue: Do not get a bigger dog than you can handle. Unless you pay many thousands for a professionally-trained, specially-bred animal (probably after getting vetted like you were adopting a kid, and spending months on a waitlist), an “attack dog” is just a self-propelling weapon with no safety latch. The dog you can find at your local shelter, from your neighborhood ‘security expert’, or in a Craigslist posting is going to be your household companion, and you should consider them as you would any other roommate (who needed adult supervision, and to be taken outside to pee every 8-10 hours).
In the course of assisting ‘household pet’ obedience classes over a dozen years, I saw a lot of misery and a few genuine tragedies when people assumed keeping Granma / the family safe meant BIG ACTIVE DOG. The primary way dogs protect their families — and that is very much an instinct for dogs — is by making A BIG LOUD NOISE to discourage the intruder by summoning outside assistance. You don’t need a big dog to get the big noise; in fact, many small dogs were explicitly bred to have outsized voices because people with real personal security needs knew it was volume-not-weight that counted. (‘Lhasa apso’, for instance, means ‘lion bark dog’.)
If you’re a fit, active person who can take your big dog out for exercise every day, by all means get that big dog. If you’re older, physically challenged, or less active — or dog-shopping for such a person — remember that even a medium-sized dog can pull hard enough on the leash to knock over a small person or one with balance issues, not to mention getting out of the house unsupervised & getting themselves into difficulties with the neighbors. A small or middle-sized dog with a big voice will do a lot more to discourage a home invader, or even a mugger, than a big dog who spends its life locked in the garage because he’s too big to manage (and getting crazier by the day from lack of contact / exercise). And if a smaller dog escapes for an unsupervised adventure, you don’t have to worry that he’ll accidentally injure one of your neighbors while “just being friendly” (yeah it happens — a 60lb golden who tries to ‘say hello’ by putting his paws on someone’s shoulders will be genuinely sorry if the person gets knocked down, but the insurance company will still come after you about the resultant injuries).
Which is not to discourage anyone from getting a dog! For one thing, if you’re living in a crowded neighborhood, you’ll have to walk the dog at least once a day, which means you’ll get to know your immediate neighborhood better, meet other dog-walkers, become a fixture in peoples’ eyes. This can be a great way to diffuse your random anxiety about ‘safety’, because you’ll know that 99% of your neighbors are just as concerned as you are about just living their lives in peace (and the local petty criminals, potential housebreakers, will know you as ‘the person with the dog’). Just get a dog that can be a companion for you, not another burden!
raven
@Anne Laurie: Now THAT is the way to live.
Adam L Silverman
@raven: I was issued one by my BCT with the rest of the civilian (contractors) on my team before we left Baumholder. Because the BCT SJA decided to jerk around our arming packets, we had to turn them back in when we got to Beuhring in Kuwait. We did the first month or three in Iraq without them because she’d sandbagged the arming packets. Once they got cleared a decision was made that we did not need them on the Command FOB, so they stayed locked up with the armorer unless we were going outside the wire. So several times a week I’d go, check it out, check out my magazines and ammo, and go on a mission. If I was going to work off of one of the COPs or Patrol Bases, I’d just hang on to it for the duration – no need to turn them in at Battalion or Company level. In some ways it was a good arrangement. Having to schlepp the thing around on the FOB was a pain in the patoot.
Adam L Silverman
@Pogonip: You really need to get out more…
Pogonip
@Adam L Silverman: I thought the boutique weapons, and their ammo, were too expensive BEFORE Obama.
Adam L Silverman
@Amaranthine RBG: No argument and 100% agreement.
Pogonip
@Adam L Silverman: Hey, big spender! Buuuuuuussssst..a few caps with me!
Pogonip
@Anne Laurie: People who want to scare the burglars should get a basset hound. Not very big, but they bark like the Hound of the Baskervilles!
jenn
@raven: I think you underrate 7 year old girls. As a 7-year old I was capable of both (1) praying for a dead deer, being sad and saying thank you, and (2) watching and/or helping my father butcher one. I remember as a youngster not that much older than 7, teaching friends how to track and taking pride in my marksmanship hitting some tin can target. My parents inculcated a deep respect in me for the land and for wildlife from before I can remember, and a respect for firearms and the responsibility that using one entailed. Toy guns, even bright-colored water-filled ones, were not allowed, because there was never be any portion of my brain that equated firearms with toys.
TL;DR: hunting =/= sadistic glee in death.
Adam L Silverman
@raven: Check your email.
Adam L Silverman
@Pogonip: This woman at the dog park where I take my dogs has a rare, battle basset!
Pogonip
@Adam L Silverman: Can you say “battle basset” ten times, fast?
Pogonip
@raven: In the midwest that’s called a “Chicago burglar alarm; the sound of a shell being jacked into a chamber greatly alarms burglars.
Omnes Omnibus
@Pogonip: The idea of relying on the sound of a firearm’s chamber being charged to ward off whatever is dangerous.
J R in WV
@Adam L Silverman:
OMG ~!~!~!
Pogonip
@Omnes Omnibus: I bet you’re alot of fun at parties.
Omnes Omnibus
@Pogonip: I am. I can play almost any role the host/ess needs to get and keep the party going.
Adam L Silverman
@Omnes Omnibus: I think this is what you really would want:
http://www.magazineart.org/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=17341&g2_serialNumber=2
Omnes Omnibus
@Adam L Silverman: A gatling camel? I’d need a bigger apartment, but it might be worth it.
jonas
If I lived in a neighborhood where there had been a home invasion robbery or other burglaries down the street recently and there was a real need to protect my family and property, ok, I might consider a shotgun or something if worse came to worst. But I live in a rural area where the most serious law enforcement issue is the occasional cow getting out of its paddock and wandering in traffic; I don’t hunt — and don’t have anything against honest, licensed folks who really do shoot to put meat on the table this time of year — and can work out some basic statistics in my head. I’ve concluded that in our current situation I’m far, far more likely, statistically speaking, to accidentally injure or kill myself with the gun than I am to stop some bogeyman threat to my family.
Adam L Silverman
@Omnes Omnibus: Or a backyard. One of the funniest things I ever saw in Iraq was a local moving a/his camel. The local wasn’t riding the camel, he’d loaded the camel into the bed of a Toyota pickup truck – the older, smaller Prerunner, and tethered it to the loops built into the sides of the bed. At that point I pretty much decided I’d seen just about everything one could see in Iraq.
Omnes Omnibus
@Adam L Silverman: Leaving a gatling camel untended in a backyard? I think not.
J R in WV
@jenn:
This, many times this. Respect should be part and parcel of hunting.
I keep and use guns as tools. I don’t hunt anymore, but where we live, and how we live, they are as essential as a backup generator. Or a truck. We live off the pavement, and even the SUV gets special tires next week for the winter. Just another set of tools.
You have to keep them clean and maintained. More so than wrenches, really. They are more complicated tools than most, and easy to mess up if you aren’t careful. But when you need one, it has to work right.
Omnes Omnibus
@J R in WV: Insulated boots and an army poncho liner go into the truck of my car at this time of year.
Adam L Silverman
@Omnes Omnibus: Fenced in. Or just move into a place with an oasis.
Amaranthine RBG
@Omnes Omnibus: Exactly right.
Omnes Omnibus
@Adam L Silverman: If I could afford an oasis, I would just go ahead and get an underground lair like a Bond villain.
dimmsdale
@Omnes Omnibus: Agreed–I think there’s a fantasy aura around guns that is so potent and pervasive, it leaves people unable to think straight. I live in dread that somehow Trump’s Supreme Court will decree that NYC (where I live) must honor other states’ open carry laws. Great: A city of glass and concrete (the former that bullets pass right through, the latter that they ricochet off of and hit passers-by) and a population density/level of crowd activity that is frankly disorienting even to ME, never mind to someone whose idea of a crowd is the mall on Saturday. Mix all that together…..ugh.
One sorry fact about many gun people (sure, I generalize, but I’m a gun person myself) is that there’s always time to read up on the latest gat, always time to show it off, but somehow never time to practice with it, especially under highly adrenalized conditions (which is the ONLY circumstance under which one is likely to use it–your heart will race, you’ll come down with tunnel vision, you’ll lose any semblance of fine motor control, and if you’re lucky you’ll shoot the dog instead of the baby in the carriage….or ME).
For anyone contemplating getting a gun I’d recommend Massad Ayoob’s “In the Gravest Extreme,” which is really good on physiological effects one needs to prepare for in stressful situations, and also very good on legal considerations (written before SYG, back in a time when we were all a bit saner than now, but it’s still useful as an all-around primer).
For personal self-defense, if you can find a workshop run by Prepare Inc., grab it. Started by a couple of professional women who were tired of getting cat-called, it includes a lot of street-level combat moves, but spends a great deal of time on threat avoidance and mitigation, de-fusing adrenalized situations, and how to walk away from a fight. (They also do tons of kids’ training including all of the above plus boundary-setting.)
I said I was a gun person. I have several, but have no desire whatever to take on either the responsibility (for another human life) or the burden of constant training that carrying one SHOULD require.
Thanks for the thread, Adam!!
Omnes Omnibus
@Amaranthine RBG: If you have it and bring it out, you need to be prepared to use it. Most people are not. In most cases, I would not be. Hence, my non-ownership of a “home/self defense” firearm.
Adam L Silverman
@Omnes Omnibus: is that a bunker or a compound?
(what?)
Omnes Omnibus
@Adam L Silverman: Neither. It’s a lair. Did I stutter?*
*Sorry. All the army talk seems to have caused a reversion of some kind where I am echoing a 1SG worked with in the past.
Amaranthine RBG
@Omnes Omnibus:
Yes. We relentlessly drill on this in our classes. Most people have the mindset of “I think I am in danger, here let me draw my weapon and evaluate whether to shoot.” No, no, no (at least for people who are not police.) The question is: “Is there a serious threat and am I prepared for the consequences?” If so, draw and immediately fire until the threat is eliminated. Otherwise, don’t put your hand on you weapon.
Adam L Silverman
@dimmsdale: I think what they’re pushing for, and there’s a formal 2nd Amendment Committee on the Transition Team, is 1) National reciprocity for conceal carry. This would override conceal carry bans/limitations in places like NY, and especially NY City, NJ, MD, DC, and parts of California. I’m honestly not sure what, if any standard, they’ll try to require. For instance, a lot of states will only grant reciprocity with a state that will do so for them and often it is based on the criteria for getting a conceal carry license/conceal weapons license/conceal weapons permit (different names in different states). Some states have more rigorous requirements even if they’re shall (read must) issue, while others have less. And 2) the hearing protection act that would remove suppressors (silencers) out from under the National Firearms Act. This latter one is, to be honest, not a bad idea. Suppressors don’t really reduce sound the way they do on TV and in the movies, so there really isn’t a crime control aspect/imperative to this. And there is a hearing protection for hunters and sport shooters aspect to it that is reasonable. There may also be a push at the beginning to remove things like short barreled rifles and shotguns out from under the National Firearms Act.
Adam L Silverman
@Omnes Omnibus: No worries, was wondering if we might be able to conjure the presence of you know who with the compound vs bunker discussion. Has anyone seen her comment in the past couple of weeks?
LongHairedWeirdo
*Thank* you. This is one of the key items I’ve preached for many years – and even some well informed gun nuts argue otherwise.
If you aren’t willing to shoot, showing a gun is a *bad* idea. Use your legs, use your wits, use your cell phone. But don’t present lethal force you’re unwilling to use.
Guns aren’t magic wands. The one thing that drives me absolutely *batsh_it crazy* are the people who say “well, if a good guy with a gun was in that dark theater (NB: or in most other active shooter situations – but the theater is the one where things fall apart so badly you shouldn’t even need any real knowledge to see how stupid it is), he could have neutralized the shooter!” Well…. that’s not entirely stupid if there’s precisely *two* people with guns, and if the soi disant good guy has the training to stay calm and shoot straight. When there’s more than 2? Who’s the attacker? Who’s the “good guy with a gun”? Duh – no one knows.
What happens when this idiot who thinks he’s the “good guy with a gun” panics and shoots an unarmed person – TRYING to shoot the attacker, mind you, but having never been in a real firefight before, muffs the shot? Now there appear to be two active shooters.
It’s one of the stupidest ideas ever. Even a well trained soldier would likely be best keeping the weapon holstered unless and until the opportunity for a clean, clear shot presents itself – and most of the gun nuts I know are nowhere near “well trained soldiers”.
Omnes Omnibus
@Amaranthine RBG: I mentioned above that the one time in my life where I came across random violence was a mugging where the presence of a firearm would have been at best no help, and at worst dangerous as fuck.
Also, you are not at troll. My apologies for that. You are so into your issue that you can be confused with a troll at times. Just saying.
Regnad Kcin
I’m not so worried about home invasion, as much as I am worried about random violence in public spaces. I can’t see any simple way to prepare for or to circumnavigate that security risk.
Adam L Silverman
@LongHairedWeirdo: The concealed carrier coming out of the store when Gabby Giffords was shot said the best decision he made was not to draw his weapon and shoot as he realized he had no idea who the shooter actually was – Loughner or the Giffords aid that was wrestling him for control of the gun.
Omnes Omnibus
@Adam L Silverman: I have been gone for a number of days, but I have seen neither hide nor hair.
Adam L Silverman
@Omnes Omnibus: Same for about two weeks.
Amaranthine RBG
@Omnes Omnibus:
Not even Christmas yet and a spirit of peace spreads across the land!
Omnes Omnibus
@Amaranthine RBG: Eh, fuck off.
Amaranthine RBG
@Omnes Omnibus:
Heh.
LongHairedWeirdo
@dimmsdale: Well… psychology has good studies that show that, when you’re hyped on adrenaline, you can do something you’ve drilled in endlessly *really* well – so “stage fright” is actually helpful for a well rehearsed actor) – but, yes, you will *muff* anything you’re trying to improvise. If you go to the range a lot, so you’re practiced at shooting the target, you’ll probably be okay *if* you don’t panic. But I’ve heard it said (and believe) that some *fine* soldiers shat the bed (if not their pants) during their first firefight when it is brought home that “holy crap, these people are trying to *kill* me!”
You *never* really “get” that until you’ve been there. (And I haven’t – I *hope* I would be not-stupid. But I don’t know.)
@gbear:
I wouldn’t just say “depression”. I was deeply depressed. I made a conscious choice to keep my guns and ammo. Now I feel more confident that suicide ain’t likely for me. .But I also knew it was a low probability in the first place, because I know me.
I will agree that if there was ever a time when you were making an active plan, and are alive because you couldn’t find the knife/rope/gun/whatever, or couldn’t get clear of witnesses, or were stopped, then don’t have a gun. And I’ll also agree that you can’t know about *anyone* but yourself. I wouldn’t have kept the gun (a .357 of all things!) in the house of *anyone* but me who suffered from depression.
Omnes Omnibus
@Adam L Silverman: Maybe squirrels gnawed through her cable. Or bears got her. Maine is odd. And I have spent a lot of time in northern Wisconsin.
Adam L Silverman
@Omnes Omnibus: She should have built the bunker and had a fortified underground location. It would have kept the squirrels and the bears away.
Omnes Omnibus
@Adam L Silverman: Hey, I talked bunker. I was a soldier, yet people don’t believe me. I’ve been in a bunker that was hit by arty. I want a bunker in my compound if no lair is available.
Adam L Silverman
@Omnes Omnibus: I hear you. No arguments here. Most likely she was eaten by this strange, aggressive, feral creature that’s been reported in Maine called the LePage…
Omnes Omnibus
@Adam L Silverman: May god have mercy on her soul.
Elie
Thank you for this, Adam
Gretchen
@Feathers: @Feathers: @Feathers: @Feathers: I have the same issue. Thanks for bringing it forward.
NJDave
It’s probably too late in the thread, but I’ll post this anyway to see if there’s a good response. I sent this thread to my daughter, who’s currently in partial hospitalization for depression and PTSD from assault (short version: she got mixed up with a true predatory psychopath). She responded:
I’ve been pondering martial arts for years; although I would do self-defense in addition, just because many of the moves taught are designed to address very specific kinds of assault (remember, the author is a man and doesn’t necessarily have to think about these things).
Miss Bianca
@jenn: thank you for that. I’ve found that it’s very, very difficult sometimes to talk to people about the ethics and spirit of hunting when they’re convinced that you’re just into it for some sort of sadistic pleasure in killing animals – even here out west.
J R in WV
Some people actually take a very Native American slant on it, appreciating the sacrifice of the animal and apologizing to it as they somewhat regretfully take it into their possession.
Others are like taking down the annual pig you raised into bacon, sausage and chops. Pretty businesslike, not much emo either way, and there’s not much wrong with this, some of them might have trouble getting through it if they stopped to ponder the ineffableness of being and all.
And still others (I don’t know many of these) do really enjoy getting to kill something, and everything else is secondary to the kill The violence is good for them, Dick Cheney style hunting.
ETA to make sense of something messed up.
low-tech cyclist
@Gin & Tonic:
Same number of trips here, and same outcome. I’ve got a bit of a temper, and when I was younger, I used to have more of one than I do now. So I’ve been known to get into some scrapes.
But looking back over my life so far, I am certain that there’s not a single situation I’ve been in during my nearly 63 years that would have reached a better outcome if I’d had access to a firearm, and a few whose outcomes would have been considerably worse.
There are just so many ways that bad shit can happen in otherwise innocuous situations if a firearm is present, and for most of us, situations where one might actually help are a rarity if they happen at all.
eldorado
the only reason i would have a gun in my place would be for an alternate health care/retirement plan. and as bad as things look, i’m not quite ready to check out just yet.
Adam L Silverman
@NJDave: Actually the author is someone who has been teaching martial arts for 20 years and does think about these things. I trained for several years with someone who had clearly been, at least, physically assaulted. Though she wouldn’t talk about it. She also came to train, at least partially, to work through that. Though she wouldn’t talk about it either. It took a while, but it made a tremendous difference.
artem1s
https://www.thetrace.org/2016/09/stolen-guns-cars-trucks-us-atlanta/
I’m not afraid to say it. Thieves target homes they think will have guns. Brayen and idjits like them are frequently targeted by the other lawless lunatics they hang out with. The neighbors didn’t have x-ray vision and likely had no interest or idea what they were moving into their home. Their idjit militia friends that they spend all their time boasting too probably knew more about what they had stockpiled than the neighbors. Having guns is an lure for home invasion. Having an escape route costs nothing. Unless you have the thing on your hip every moment, it’s not likely to do you much good in an emergency. Hauling a gun with you everywhere requires constant vigilance (or should). Explain to me how that makes anyone feel more secure? Almost everyone I know who purchased a gun to feel more secure, ends up obsessing over it and inventing endless scenarios where they might use the damn thing. For instance these idjits in Cleveland who had no problem imagining an apocalyptic scenario where they get to play militia saviors, but couldn’t spend one moment imagining the scenarios where they lose the damn things.
I’m sure the gun nuts reading this article all imagine the hoards of brown people swarming all over Cleveland armed with these idjits guns. What they can’t imagine is the scenario which is probably closer to the truth. That stockpile is on it’s way to the nearest gun show and will get sold to the next idjits obsessing over race wars and the coming trumpacalypse where they will join their glorious leader in making America Hate Again.
Tyro
I always thought that being very public about gun ownership was pretty much putting a sign on your house that says, “Steal my guns.”
Gretchen
I know I’m very late. I have a 60 pound black dog. Supposedly people find black dogs scarier and they are therefore less likely to be adopted. He is a very sweet dog who craves attention, but he barks like a crazy thing when anyone approaches the house. I’ve had plumbers and other workmen hesitate to enter, even when I’m holding his collar and assuring them that the dog just wants to get them to pet him. I think there is zero chance that an intruder will choose my house over the dog less house next door. My dad was Director of Probation in Detroit back in the day, and used to ask guys on probation for burglary what would put them off a house. Dog was a common answer.
I’ve also been subject to the black dog of depression, and reflected that it would be a bad idea for me to have the combination to the gun safe. Fortunately, my husband isn’t someone who had a gun safe, so in those dark night watches, I just had to go to bed.