Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

The lights are all blinking red.

It’s always darkest before the other shoe drops.

A thin legal pretext to veneer over their personal religious and political desires.

Not so fun when the rabbit gets the gun, is it?

Only Democrats have agency, apparently.

I see no possible difficulties whatsoever with this fool-proof plan.

We cannot abandon the truth and remain a free nation.

Republican obstruction dressed up as bipartisanship. Again.

Whoever he was, that guy was nuts.

Putin dreamed of ending NATO, and now it’s Finnish-ed.

This really is a full service blog.

And we’re all out of bubblegum.

Republican speaker of the house Mike Johnson is the bland and smiling face of evil.

The new republican ‘Pastor’ of the House is an odious authoritarian little creep.

The US Supreme Court is on the ballot in november.

Wake up. Grow up. Get in the fight.

Trump makes a mockery of the legal system and cowardly judges just sit back and let him.

Ron DeSantis, the grand wizard, oops, governor of FL.

The fundamental promise of conservatism all over the world is a return to an idealized past that never existed.

Motto for the House: Flip 5 and lose none.

SCOTUS: It’s not “bribery” unless it comes from the Bribery region of France. Otherwise, it’s merely “sparkling malfeasance”.

They love authoritarianism, but only when they get to be the authoritarians.

Teach a man to fish, and he’ll sit in a boat all day drinking beer.

Sadly, media malpractice has become standard practice.

You are here: Home / Foreign Affairs / Open Thread: Bull(shitter) in A China Foreign Policy Shoppe

Open Thread: Bull(shitter) in A China Foreign Policy Shoppe

by | 158 Comments

This post is in: , , ,

Twitter may be the perfect medium for a Trump ‘presidency’, because 140 characters at a time is about as much of this as a sane person can bear.

Is Trump bullshitting Taiwan? Is Taiwan bullshitting Trump? Are his neocon handlers bullshitting Trump? Who’s zooming who?


…. aaand the usual suspects step up to churn yet more bullshit…

By the reality-tv celebrity’s standards, the whole incident has been a YUUUGE success (so far) — all those extra eyeballs, glued to the Trump Show!

All together, now: We. Are. So. Fucked…

Reader Interactions

158Comments

  1. 1.

    gogol's wife

    In the comments on the WaPo, the Trumpista position is, “he’s shaking up those ridiculous diplomatic niceties,” and “why should he care what Obama’s State Department thinks”?

  3. 3.

    Jerzy Russian

    I need to find a good mechanic, so I am looking at the Yelp reviews of gardeners. This method of choosing politicians has worked wonders so far, so I thought I would apply it to other areas on my life.

  5. 5.

    Mary G

    I almost loathe Kellyanne more now, because I am still on TV news blackout she’s all over the Internet looking like she smells a fart.

    Well America, it’s been nice knowing you.

  7. 7.

    gogol's wife

    I hate everything about Trump. He has no redeeming qualities. The real Trump is the fat ass eating frog legs in Jean Georges. Pence went to Hamilton because what these guys REALLY like is the luxury and sophistication of NYC. They wouldn’t spend ten minutes in OH or PA if they didn’t have to be there to fleece the rubes. I am tormented by the tragedy that stupidity, racism, and greed (because EVERY SINGLE TRUMP VOTER possesses at least one of those qualities) have put our country in this terrible position.

  9. 9.

    hitchhiker

    Every time KA Conway mentions the will of “The American People” she must be reminded that the majority of those who voted voted against her boss.

    His administration has no mandate from the voters — quite the opposite. The majority of voters didn’t want him.

  10. 10.

    Yutsano

    @Betty Cracker:

    President Obama can explain it to you at your next remedial presidenting for dummies tutorial.

    I so so so just want Obama to say fuck it all and stop coöperating with Combover Caligula. Let him stumble on his own merits and ragequit when he sees all the checks he actually has on his power. Of course Obama won’t because he actually cares about the country. But THAT THING has no concept of what he’s doing beyond his shitty Ferengi impulses. Which even most Ferengi would say are terrible.

    @hitchhiker:

    Every time KA Conway mentions the will of “The American People” she must be reminded that the majority of those who voted voted against her boss.

    This would be shrill. Uncivil. Dare I even say. PARTISAN?

    I love it. I plan to keep doing so.

  13. 13.

    piratedan

    well I’m sure that there’s some way that the MSM can STILL spin this into being Obama’s fault

  14. 14.

    ThresherK (GPad)

    Headline “Trump calls Taiwan” made my brain ‘autocomplete’ it with several terms I won’t even type here*. I can almost hear Trump doing this.

    *One of these terms was knowingly euphemised by Oscar Hammerstein II into “people whose eyes are oddly made”.

  16. 16.

    Baud

    Declare that they view Hawaii as a disputed territory?

    Please don’t suggest blue states. Trump will take that deal.

  17. 17.

    eemom

    Let’s look on the bright side — at the rate he’s going, the asshole might succeed in getting the world blown up before he takes office. Perhaps better to perish in a nice clean mushroom cloud than the slow torture that awaits us the next 4 years.
    Honestly, I am so thoroughly disgusted and demoralized at this point that if I didn’t have children, I wouldn’t care.

  18. 18.

    Tehanu

    @bystander:

    Well, I like “Il Douche,” but “T.A.” is more succinct (“That Asshole”). It was going to be That Asshole in the White House (h/t every goddam Republican in the 1930s), but too many letters….

    @Betty Cracker:

    Apparently T.A. is spending a fair amount of time blocking commenters he doesn’t like from his Twitter account. Well, of course he is — so much better use of his time than, you know, learning anything about his new job.

  19. 19.

    Yutsano

    Oh and someone should remind Kellyanne that no her boss was NOT aware of the One China policy. That was made self-evident by his idiotic phone call.

    I say this as someone who thinks the One China policy is complete idiocy.

  20. 20.

    ThresherK (GPad)

    @Betty Cracker: That’s not remedial enough. How’s we start with the history segments of Schoolhouse Rock? They aren’t perfect, ignore some warts, but might hit the sweet spot for someone with Trump’s cognitive grade level.

  21. 21.

    Jerzy Russian

    @piratedan:

    well I’m sure that there’s some way that the MSM can STILL spin this into being Obama’s fault

    Well, President Obama could have canceled the elections in key red states and put everyone in those states into FEMA camps right before the election, but for some inexplicable reason chose not to.

  22. 22.

    Anya

    @Mary G: To me she’s the most loathsome of the Trump crew, and I am including the white nationalists, his horrible 3-adult children, the homophobes and all the other crazies. She is the worst. Words fail to describe how much I loathe her.

  23. 23.

    trollhattan

    @Anya:
    I’d call her reptilian if I didn’t admire certain reptiles, but she is a member of the same cohort as Coulter.

  25. 25.

    Anya

    By the way, I think the one China policy is idiotic and I wouldn’t be mad at the Short Fingered Vulgarian if he actually had a coherent policy. What’s alarming is 1) his muddying US foreign policy before he takes office; 2) his use of the presidency to grift. So far all the head of states he’s contacted (except Western Europe) there’s some link to his bussiness projects.

  26. 26.

    BBA

    @hitchhiker: On another website, I’ve been repeatedly told that the system our flawless founders endowed us with means that running up the score in one large state can’t outweigh the support of dozens of small states, so suck it libtard.

    Paraphrasing but you get the gist.

  27. 27.

    RobertDSC-Mac Mini

    Words fail to describe how much I loathe her.

    She is a C-word. That is the only word I use, and I don’t use that word lightly.

  29. 29.

    Zinsky

    Trump is a freakin’ train wreck before the first golden toilet seat is installed in the White House. The next four years is gonna be like an extended con game mixed with a gutter brawl.

  30. 30.

    Alex

    I don’t think Hawaii is a controversial enough analogy. More like if China declared that they recognize only one U.S.– ruled by the Cuban government.

  31. 31.

    Ksmiami

    Based on trends I believe there is a 37.5 percent chance of global warfare (w the majors) within 3 years.

  32. 32.

    SFAW

    @BBA:

    means that running up the score in one large state can’t outweigh the support of dozens of small states,

    Let’s hope it means that the larger states (in which the score was “run up”) can tell the smaller states “FUCK YOU” when it comes time to “redistribute the wealth” of tax monies that the small states receive, but which the large states paid.

  34. 34.

    SFAW

    @Ksmiami:

    Based on trends I believe there is a 37.5 percent chance of global warfare (w the majors) within 3 years.

    Maybe The Mule will show up, and fix all that.

    (Ignoring for the moment that That Evil Fucking Asshole is probably the closest thing to The Mule — in terms of disruption of the rational course of history — that we got.)
    WASF

  35. 35.

    Anonymous At Work

    So, the real danger of Trump emerges a bit more. When he does this stuff, as long as no one takes him or his words seriously, no harm, EXCEPT if someone makes something of it for nefarious purposes. That’s China’s playbook right there.

  38. 38.

    SFAW

    @Anonymous At Work:

    … no harm, EXCEPT if someone makes something of it for nefarious purposes. That’s China’s playbook right there.

    First time I’ve seen Rethuglicans called “China.”

  39. 39.

    Mr Stagger Lee

    Well if we lose the PRC, we got a good friend in Rodrigo Duterte of the Philippines, and God Trump decides to adopt that nut’s version on the war on drugs.

  40. 40.

    hovercraft

    @piratedan:

    well I’m sure that there’s some way that the MSM can STILL spin this into being Obama’s fault

    It is Obama’s fault, why didn’t he anticipate that the shitgibbon would not know this? If Obama really cared about the country he would be spending every hour of every day with it till January 20. It still wouldn’t be enough, but it might stave off the apocalypse till it’s sworn in at least. Then it will be SS Petraeus dealing with the complaints.

  41. 41.

    Roger Moore

    “The American people don’t care about Taiwan call”

    “The American people don’t care about X” is a diversion. They’re tacitly admitting they screwed up, but claiming it doesn’t matter because it isn’t a popular issue. Maybe the American people don’t care, but the Chinese do, and they’re capable of making us care about it deeply.

  42. 42.

    hovercraft

    @Baud:

    Please don’t suggest blue states. Trump will take that deal.

    I’d say Alaska, but Putin would totally be all over that, and the Shitgibbon might just give it to him as a thank you gift.

  44. 44.

    Poopyman

    @hovercraft: There’s still a chance that Obama’s Justice Dept. is keeping count of all of Trump’s past and present antics, and will be handing down an elebenty-billion part indictment come mid-January.

    A boy can dream….

  47. 47.

    Mike in NC

    Going forward, we should all just get accustomed to Trump providing horrifying, absurd, embarrassing news each and every day as long as the Earth is still spinning on its axis.

  49. 49.

    the Conster, la Citoyenne

    The days of going to bed at night being confident in the fact that the world as we know it hasn’t ended as we know it upon waking up in the morning, is more or less over. I don’t know what to do about it, and neither does anyone else. The entire world is in the hands of a narcissistic ignoramus. Heckuva job, white people!

    Have a nice day!

  50. 50.

    Hellbastard

    Looks like “The American people don’t care about…” is going to be their go-to excuse for any and all fuck-ups Trump makes. And given who won the election, it’s hard to dispute that.

  52. 52.

    Brachiator

    Tso What
    2016 notable deaths continue, this time with an indirect Trump connection

    The chef behind one of America’s most popular Chinese food dishes has died.

    Chef Peng Chang-kuei was 98 when he died on Nov. 30 from pneumonia, according to the Epoch Times.

    Peng first made General Tso’s chicken in the 1950s, when he was working as a chef for the Taiwanese government, according to Taiwan Business Topics. When U.S. Navy Admiral Arthur W. Radford visited Taiwan in 1954 to lead a summit of high-ranking government officials, Peng decided to expand on the usual banquet menu. One of his innovations, a breaded and stir-fried chicken dish in a sweet and spicy sauce, was so popular that the chef was asked what it was called. On the spot, Peng coined “General Tso’s Chicken,” according to Taiwan Business Topics, after a celebrated war hero from Hunan, his home province.

    Peng opened a restaurant in New York City in 1973, according to the New York Times, which was well-reviewed and counted officials from the United Nations as well as Secretary of State Henry Kissinger as regulars.

    In the 80s, he returned to Taiwan, where he founded a Hunanese cuisine restaurant chain, Peng’s Garden Hunan Restaurant.

    Chef Peng and General Tso’s Chicken have both been seen a recent surge in media interest.

    By taking the call from the Taiwan president, he was giving a thumbs up to free chicken over oppressed Commie chicken.

  53. 53.

    gene108

    @Anya:

    his use of the presidency to grift.

    I so want him to grift and loot, as President.

    I want it to be so open and brazen not even the Ron Fournier or Chuck Todd could miss it.

    I want Trump to leave office, in four years, as the richest man on the planet. I am not talking Bill Gates-Warren Buffet-Carlos Slim rich. I am talking Vladimir Putin $200 billion dollars rich.

    I want it to be laid naked and bare for all to see how much we rely on the good faith of office holders, to faithfully execute their duties, to avoid becoming a tin pot dictatorship.

  54. 54.

    hitchhiker

    @BBA:

    And the reply is, “Whatever. The American People preferred someone who is not your boss. He has no mandate from The American People.”

  55. 55.

    Major Major Major Major

    @Mike in NC: @Baud: Rule #4: Be outraged

    If you follow Rule #1 and believe what the autocrat-elect is saying, you will not be surprised. But in the face of the impulse to normalize, it is essential to maintain one’s capacity for shock. This will lead people to call you unreasonable and hysterical, and to accuse you of overreacting. It is no fun to be the only hysterical person in the room. Prepare yourself.

  56. 56.

    trollhattan

    @Mary G:
    My only trip to Hilo was in December and holy crap, did it ever rain. They broke the old annual rainfall record and locals were bringing down pickup loads of snow to build front yard snowmen. Different place, Hilo.

  58. 58.

    Shalimar

    I was looking at international military spending earlier today and discovered U.S. share has gone down quite a bit in the last decade. U.S. defense spending is 50% higher (if you don’t add in the Afghan and Iraq war costs in 2006, which the Bush administration didn’t), which means the rest of the world has increased their spending even more than that.

    China in particular is spending 4 times what they were then. So they have been preparing for war with us for a decade and we just elected the match to set off the explosives. Yay.

  59. 59.

    Anonymous At Work

    @SFAW: Compared to China, GOP is small potatoes. GOP would prepare riots to get what they want, China starts riots and then prepares tanks to put down the riots. USN sends aircraft carriers, China buzzes them “on accident”. Their sense of brinksmanship is much more ruthless.

  61. 61.

    Seth Owen

    @eemom: Some Tibetan (I think) ‘prophet’ DID say Obama would be the last US president. Trump getting us blown up before Jan. 20th? “It is written … .”

  62. 62.

    Adam L Silverman

    The actual response is not China declaring Hawaii is a disputed territory. Rather, it is China announcing that they will only deal with the winner of the popular vote to rub the President-elect’s nose in it.

    You have to pay very close attention to official Chinese responses. They tend to like using numerical lists. They prefer bilateralism (which Trump seems to as well) in negotiations and relations, so they’ll talk a lot about the China and the US. They tend to ignore everyone else within Asia-Pacific when doing this because no one else, not even the Indians – though they’re working on it, can project power within Asia-Pacific but us. They are also very good at insulting you while making it sound like a compliment.

    I’ve had the pleasure of both meeting the PRC Defense Attache and to hear him speak. He started and ended his remarks with insults that, if you didn’t understand how the Chinese officially communicate, were easily mistaken as compliments. In fact my write up of the event for my Commanding General was 180 degrees differently then the staff summary produced by the official note taker. And yes, the Commanding General was both host and in attendance.

  64. 64.

    Brachiator

    @Hellbastard:

    Looks like “The American people don’t care about…” is going to be their go-to excuse for any and all fuck-ups Trump makes. And given who won the election, it’s hard to dispute that.

    There is a long tradition in America of looking at diplomacy as a lot of nit picking supercilious bullshit.

    Along with this is a variation of big stick isolationism in international relations: do what we want or leave us alone.

    There are reports, noted here, that Trump’s team has deliberately brushed aside offers by the Obama administration to provide State Department guidance during the transition. This implies that Trump and his people don’t give a shit about prior foreign policy precedent.

    China isn’t going to unleash nukes over this trivia. However, they may more openly and vigorously assert their own interests and smugly retort, “Back at you, Trump baby.”

  66. 66.

    Anonymous At Work

    @Adam L Silverman: How screwed does that make Trump to acceding to demands because he mistook insults for flattery and allowed the Chinese to isolate him from staff?

  67. 67.

    Redshift

    The grifting is bad, but the know-nothing greed and hunger for flattery is worse. I thought Shrub’s “looked into his soul” with Putin was a big red flag, because Putin was ex-KGB, and he was obviously capable of manipulating syndrome as gullible as Shrub. But with Trump, very bad leaders will be putting crap over on him on a daily basis, because they don’t even have to be skilled at it, they just have to tell him he’s great and give him a sweetheart deal on hotel construction, and he’ll sell out American interests for pennies.

    WASF, indeed.

  71. 71.

    ChrisB

    Yes, Kelly Anne is the absolute worst. I can’t watch her either.

    And you know who this will be bad for — Taiwan. The only question for me is how patient or obvious China wants to be. For Obama’s sake, I hope they wait until he’s gone.

    Maybe they’ll just sit back and wait for Trump to ruin more of our relationships in Asia.

  72. 72.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Major Major Major Major: Who is they in your question? The Trump transition folks? My guess is they’re considering him for White House Director of Drug Policy. The PRC? They’ll manipulate the daylights out of him. They’ll coopt him into dropping the Philippines’ claim to the disputed areas in the Pacific. Then they’ll basically bid on development contracts, come in, do their thing, extract the money, and move on. The difference is that the Chinese don’t try to extend Chinese values to whoever their clients and junior partners are. A lot of states and societies like that as opposed to having to listen to us nag them over human rights and democracy and liberty. And now that Putin’s influence ops have shown just how little of that we really care about at home, fewer and fewer people are going to be willing to do business with us if it means listening to us lecture them as part of the price. This is what Putin wanted and what he doesn’t realize the PRC is better positioned to take advantage of than he is, because they aren’t motivated by petty grievance and resentment.

  73. 73.

    Brachiator

    @Shalimar:

    China in particular is spending 4 times what they were then. So they have been preparing for war with us for a decade and we just elected the match to set off the explosives. Yay.

    It’s not always about us, or the US. China’s global ambition reflects their own national interests.

    There are fools here of all political ideologies who believe the fantasy that the US is supposed to be the only superpower, or the greatest one. Neither Russia nor China accept this as inevitable.

  74. 74.

    Brachiator

    @Adam L Silverman:

    In fact my write up of the event for my Commanding General was 180 degrees differently then the staff summary produced by the official note taker.

    Can we ask how your interpretation was received?

    By the way, your explanation of the event makes total sense.

  75. 75.

    Incitatus for Senate

    I wish I had some artistic talent. I’d love to see billboards with the popular vote totals for Hillary and Trump, and a picture of Trump and a shirtless Putin, titled “This is the only mandate Trump won”

  76. 76.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Anonymous At Work: Who knows. I’ve yet to see anyone recommended for a senior position around the President-elect, let alone anyone who already worked for him or was informally within the campaign, that seems to know anything about proper cross-cultural communication. My guess is the Trump Organization just purchases local fixers to handle this stuff on the business side. Or one of the many people that have monetized doing this in the corporate world (I’ve yet to see one of those people I’d trust to let order breakfast for me in a foreign country). And given that the President-elect clearly responds well to what he thinks is flattery and doesn’t think too hard over what is actually being said (for instance, when Putin explained what he meant by saying Trump was bright/brilliant, it wasn’t in terms of being smart, it was in terms of being bright and shiny like a light bulb – Putin even used the light bulb example in his explanation), the foreign diplomatic community is going to quickly realize just how to lead him around.

  77. 77.

    Seth Owen

    The one thing we can be sure that China is willing to fight over is Taiwanese independence. They are willing to tolerate the ambiguity and fiction of the One China policy with defacto independence for Taiwan, but like an old fashioned wife dealing with a mistress, pushing the issue may result in a showdown.

    Trump’s ignorance could easily result in a war. Would he fight to defend Taiwan?

  78. 78.

    Adam L Silverman

    @p.a.: There is no such thing as a black swan event. There is only the vast majority of people that refused to listen to the few people that warned about whatever low probability event happening happened.

  79. 79.

    Brachiator

    @Poopyman:

    There’s still a chance that Obama’s Justice Dept. is keeping count of all of Trump’s past and present antics, and will be handing down an elebenty-billion part indictment come mid-January.

    You would really want to have something happen by December 15, before the electors meet.

  80. 80.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Brachiator: The Boss appreciated it. Also, I have a somewhat unique ability to recreate engagements and speeches into an almost word for word transcript, which I then annotate as appropriate with analysis. Everyone I’ve ever worked for is convinced I’ve got a photographic memory. The truth is I’ve got very good recall, but also a very good system for taking notes very quickly. When you put the two together after an engagement, you get an annotated transcript from me as opposed to the two paragraphs from the official note taker.

  83. 83.

    Brachiator

    @gene108:

    I want Trump to leave office, in four years, as the richest man on the planet. I am not talking Bill Gates-Warren Buffet-Carlos Slim rich. I am talking Vladimir Putin $200 billion dollars rich.

    Many Trump supporters simply don’t care that he enriches himself as long as he delivers on his promises. I’ve talked to people who use Trump as a way of back-filling their idea of what it means to “run the country like a business.” They think that they will have the ability to prosper as Trump enriches himself, because tax cuts.

    These people also think that rules and checks and balances and regulations are just silly and get in the way of the average guy being able to get ahead.

    So far, they love everything that Trump is doing, because nothing has affected them negatively, and just upsets the media and the Establishment.

  84. 84.

    Ella in New Mexico

    Fuck “Donald Twitter-fingers” Trump and his “Victory Tour Rehash of Desperation for Applause”. Fuck his corrupt, incompetent appointments. Fuck him making bajillions from his business conflicts of interest that he will not sever ties with, fuck his violating all nepotism rules by having his kids sitting in on Top Secret meetings.

    As of today, the hubby and I came to the mutual agreement that we have left the “OMFG He’s Dismantling the Entire US As We Know it” are in the “Let the Apocalypse Commence” stage of post-election grief right now.

    We’ll still gonna stay involved, communicate with the House and Senate politicians on issues of importance. We know we have to stay vocal to keep the noise buzzing in their ears enough to create a little pushback against the Granny Starver Brigade.

    But if they really can dismantle every single progressive advance over the past 100 years in six months, well then fuck it, let ’em go for it. Apparently, nothing is permanent in this country now, so we can change it back just as quickly when we take over, which I am betting will happen in 2018, after they’ve grabbed the fucking pussy of America for two miserable years.

    At this point in time, every single thing Trump does is just bizarre and confusing, and he’s reversing himself left and right on so many issues that even Fox News cannot filter it out. The folks in Red State Land are “hearing things”, and they’re slowly, cautiously starting to have a bit of buyer’s remorse. I’ve overheard it at work, I’ve heard it in the voices of my in-laws who voted for him. Best part about it is, it’s not the “evil” media lying about him: He’s doing it to himself, and no matter how much Kelly Anne or Newtie or anyone of his many unappealing surrogates try to run interference, it’s pretty clear that Oz ain’t no God, he’s just a fucking unstable fake who has not got a CLUE.

    We’ve absolutely never seen this kind of thing happen in this country before. It’s starting to feel like so much we all take for granted will or should happen just are NOT predictable anymore. I’m actually excited to see what happens over the next few weeks and months. I’m expecting some pretty interesting times, and somehow I feel Karma will protect us from total and complete annihilation.

    So, as far as I’m concerned, let him roll. Let him and the entire Republican Moron Congress go balls-to-the wall stupid. Everyone who voted for them will then see that they cannot deliver jack shit. The chaos and uncertainty will be the best thing that part of our country gets to experience post-Trump.

    Nothing means anything right now when it comes to Donald Trump. So let’s relax, and see what happens when he assumes office in January and they dump the big bucket of putrid shit on his head that is Running the United States of America. I for one will really enjoy the meltdown.

    “Not by their words but by their deeds you will know them…” I always say.

  85. 85.

    gratutious

    So, who called whom? Or who arranged the call between Trump and Taiwan? Yes, it matters, because my impression is that Trump doesn’t even know what he did. He’ll just retreat back into his carelessness and let other people clean up the mess he’s left.

    If the political media had been doing their jobs for the last nine months, we wouldn’t be where we are today. But early on, the big shots like Les Moonves at CBS decided they liked the money from the big ratings more than they cared about the country. It would be nice if they could start holding this mountebank accountable for his nitwit shenanigans, but they haven’t done it to this point, and they seem petrified by the prospect of Trump calling them unfair.

    I see Moonves spending his last mortal moments obsessively tracking the Nielsens while the blast zone from the mushroom cloud outside his office window spreads to engulf him.

  86. 86.

    Brachiator

    @Seth Owen:

    Trump’s ignorance could easily result in a war. Would he fight to defend Taiwan?

    Americans no more care about Taiwan than we care about the annexation of Ukraine.

    China has been retreating on promises to maintain democracy in Hong Kong, and the world reaction has been, “sucks to be you.”

  87. 87.

    germy

    Here’s a headline from our local newspaper:

    China hopes Trump call with Taiwan leader won’t damage ties

    The headline writer makes it all sound… so reasonable.

  88. 88.

    Major Major Major Major

    @Adam L Silverman: I meant the Chinese, yes.

    And now that Putin’s influence ops have shown just how little of that we really care about at home, fewer and fewer people are going to be willing to do business with us if it means listening to us lecture them as part of the price.

    Interesting read on it.

  89. 89.

    Brachiator

    @Adam L Silverman:

    The Boss appreciated it. Also, I have a somewhat unique ability to recreate engagements and speeches into an almost word for word transcript, which I then annotate as appropriate with analysis.

    Very interesting. Thanks.

    Your comments here make me wonder whether you’ve seen the movie “Arrival,” and have any thoughts about it in terms of your work experiences, as well as purely aesthetic considerations.

  91. 91.

    Mk3873

    Conway is correct, unfortunately, when she says that American ppl don’t care about Taiwan.

    I mean, 62M ppl voted for Trump, so they gave absolutely no thought about international diplomacy and do NOT care.

  92. 92.

    Adam L Silverman

    @eemom: I’ve heard statements that welcome the US participation in Asia-Pacific that are basically “we’ve been doing this and running this place pretty much for several thousand years and our (Han) culture is so strong everyone eventually capitulates to it – even the invaders”, so its nice that you’ve started to really pay attention to this part of the world”. Of course the formal statement was something along the lines of: “we welcome your new focus in the region, especially given how long we’ve been dealing with the important issues here in it.” This is why the official Chinese response was about the overall, long term US-Chinese (PRC) relationship and couched within the One China concept. It sounded nice. It sounded like “rookie mistake, no bother, we understand”. What it really was “You deal with us or you deal with no one in Asia-Pacific”. Not sure if the Trump folks have figured this out yet.

    The other issue that is going to come up, which already has with Pakistan and why India is unhappy, is that the Chinese, the Pakistanis, the Indians are all high context communicators. And they’re honor-shame dynamic cultures. So if you make them a promise, even if you think its a throwaway statement such as the President-elect’s at the end of his conversation with the Pakistani President, it is taken as serious and a failure to deliver on it will be taken very negatively – as an insult. From the Pakistani and Indian perspective, the President-elect has promised to help Pakistan resolve its outstanding issues in the region. The Pakistanis will now expect him to hold to that. The Indians are now dreading that he will.

  93. 93.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Major Major Major Major: There’s a reason that US based or originated multinationals have been loosing ground to the Chinese in Africa, the Middle East, parts of South America. Its part of Duterte’s threat to Obama: we don’t need the lecture, we can get the same stuff without the headache from China.

  94. 94.

    Ksmiami

    @chris: yes. Unfortunately – I’m very good at predictions for worst outcomes because of a keen flight or fight instinct.

  95. 95.

    raven

    Blocked xtra point run back 100 yards for 2 points by the Gators after Bama blocks a punt for a TD!

  96. 96.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Brachiator: Haven’t seen it. Last movie I saw in the theater, first one in several years as I usually just wait for a digital download, was Moana.

  97. 97.

    germy

    @Baud: I just always feel a weird disconnect when I visit balloon-juice and LGM, and see commenters talking about “this could mean nuclear war!” and then my local paper frames things in a less dramatic way.

  99. 99.

    Tilda Swinton's Bald Cap

    I keep asking where that one patriotic American is in the CIA or NSA that’s gonna spill all the good stuff on Trump. Does this person exist? Are you telling me that of all the people that work in those agencies every single one of them is fine with this? Fine with Putin, fine with members of the campaign and transition team in the pockets of Russia? Really fine with all of this?

  100. 100.

    Baud

    @germy: We shouldn’t expect or want the media to mirror BJ rhetoric. I don’t think that’s what our criticism is about.

  101. 101.

    Brachiator

    What conflict of interest? The Guardian, again, reporting the obvious.

    Weeks before President-elect Donald Trump’s controversial phone call with Taiwan’s president, Tsai Ing-wen, a businesswoman claiming to be associated with his conglomerate made inquiries about a major investment in building luxury hotels as part of the island’s new airport development.

    The business of America is Trump’s business.

  102. 102.

    germy

    @Baud: I think my hair would stand up if my local newspaper started mirroring BJ. No matter what the story is, they always have the calmest headlines. Good for my nerves.

  103. 103.

    chris

    @Ksmiami: Hey, me too. I’m typing this from under my desk, just like they taught me in Grade 1 back in 1960. And I’m in Canada.

  104. 104.

    Brachiator

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Haven’t seen it. Last movie I saw in the theater, first one in several years as I usually just wait for a digital download, was Moana.

    Moana is on my list. Heard great things about how enjoyable it is.

    It is hard for me to say that”Arrival” is a must see for everyone, it is quiet and indirect, but some have been knocked out by it, in surprisingly different ways. And the cinematography is quite beautiful in places, and works best on the big screen, adding to the impact of the narrative.

    There are a few twists, so I haven’t said much about the plot. But again, as I note, apart from enjoyment, you might find the perspective of the film to be interesting. And hey, there’s nothing much in the theater until “Rogue One” opens.

  105. 105.

    SFAW

    @Anonymous At Work:

    Compared to China, GOP is small potatoes.

    No disagreement. It was just the state-of-permanent-outrage that the Rethugs are known for reminded me of the China comment.

    What’s kind of amazing to me is that of the Big Three nuke powers, only one will be headed by a moron who thinks he’s a fucking genius. One can only hope that TEFA and his as-stupid-as-Louie-Gohmert running mate re-enact Cyril Kornbluth’s scenario.

  108. 108.

    Ruckus

    @Betty Cracker:
    You are assuming that he is capable of learning. Anything.
    He’s convinced that it’s his world and the rest of us are only living in it to satisfy his ego and to give him blow jobs.

  113. 113.

    Brachiator

    @Adam L Silverman:

    And they’re honor-shame dynamic cultures. So if you make them a promise, even if you think its a throwaway statement such as the President-elect’s at the end of his conversation with the Pakistani President, it is taken as serious and a failure to deliver on it will be taken very negatively – as an insult.

    But there is another side to this. I have personally observed Indians make promises that they had no intention of keeping and invitations that they did not expect anyone to accept, not because of any bad intentions, but because of the rituals of politeness.

  114. 114.

    Geeno

    It’s times like this that I hope they do their Constitutional Convention shit, then maybe those of us who don’t approve their shitty-ass constitution can break away and do our own thing. After the original convention, states that didn’t ratify weren’t bound by it (I say as a Rhode Islander – the only of the original colonies that never cast an electoral college vote for George Washington – we joined the union too late – 1793).
    Seriously – I think we blue states could come up with a decent constitution of our own.

  115. 115.

    Brachiator

    @SFAW:

    What’s kind of amazing to me is that of the Big Three nuke powers, only one will be headed by a moron who thinks he’s a fucking genius.

    An interesting comment to make about Putin, whose reputation as a mastermind is hugely overrated.

  116. 116.

    Ruckus

    @Adam L Silverman:

    the foreign diplomatic community is going to quickly realize just how to lead him around.

    I believe that this happened at least 6 months ago. Proper Planning Prevents Poor Performance and all that.

  122. 122.

    eemom

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Thanks….very interesting.

    I was reading earlier about the business with Pakistan and India. Hell, they’re only nuclear powers; what could possibly go wrong?

    As noted above, I’m sorting of coming to terms with the fact that the world may be blown up. Whether that happens or not, I am frankly loving how he’s bungling our relations with like, the whole rest of the world before he even takes office. Because this is where his fucking ego is finally getting cut down to size. He is waaaaaay out of his league fucking with people like the ones who run China. And Putin has already eaten him for breakfast.

  123. 123.

    SWMBO

    @Anya: Until China forecloses on all our debt and it affects their wallets personally. Then it will all be Obama’s fault for everything. He is still in office and should be able to fix President Pussygrabber’s mistakes. After all he fixed Shrub’s and their wallets recovered nicely.

  124. 124.

    clay

    @bystander: A commenter on TPM (mis?)typed POTUS as POUTS. It’s a pretty good typo.

    As in, POUTS just risked war with his complete ignorance about foreign affairs.

  128. 128.

    artem1s

    @Ella in New Mexico:

    “Not by their words but by their deeds you will know them…” I always say.

    Love it. My personal response to my idjit fundie relatives who have been soooooo smug about their ‘moral’ outrage against the left, is going to be “congratulations, asshole, you won the whole world, whatever is left of it once your new golden god is done shitting on it. (For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?” Mark 8:36)

  133. 133.

    Ella in New Mexico

    @artem1s: this one is even BETTER

    “I appeal to you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and create obstacles contrary to the doctrine that you have been taught; avoid them. For such persons do not serve our Lord Christ, but their own appetites, and by smooth talk and flattery they deceive the hearts of the naive.” Romans 16:17-18

  136. 136.

    SFAW

    @Brachiator:

    An interesting comment to make about Putin, whose reputation as a mastermind is hugely overrated.

    I can’t tell if you thought I was talking about Putin, not Trump, as the moron, or if you were trying to say that Trump and Putin have similar intellectual capabilities.

    In any event, I’m guessing Vladi Vladimirovich has a lot more on the ball than TEFA. Running the KGB (or FSB?) more-or-less successfully is not exactly the same as running a Ka See Noh (and a host of other businesses) into bankruptcy.

  137. 137.

    debbie

    @hitchhiker:

    she must be reminded that the majority of those who voted voted against her boss.

    Count all the people (and I think we ought to, since they’ll be just as screwed), and he only got a thin slice of the American Pie.

  140. 140.

    Tehanu

    @BBA:

    @hitchhiker: Californians aren’t Americans, silly.

    Somebody on Facebook used that very insult to me at the end of a longish comment exchange during which he absolutely refused to admit that T.A. (That Asshole) is a racist. In fact, that was the 3rd or 4th such exchange I’ve had since Black Tuesday, all of which can be characterized as “Fascists Evading Questions.” I haven’t stopped commenting, but I have stopped getting into back-and-forth sessions because it’s pointless to argue with people whose self-esteem depends on never admitting that they might be wrong about anything.

  142. 142.

    J R in WV

    @Adam L Silverman:

    We just went to see Doctor Strange, which was recommended by a friend, who went a second time to see in the 3-D. We saw it in regular movie mode, but I saw why he would recommend seeing it in 3-D.

    Highly recommended for anyone who ever liked a Stan Lee comic. And if you can tolerate 3-D, do it. For sure. And stay for all the long long, list of credits because there’s a surprise scene afterwards. Hint!!

  143. 143.

    Tehanu

    @Adam L Silverman:

    the foreign diplomatic community is going to quickly realize just how to lead him around.

    (and also, @Ruckus: )

    I’m beginning to wonder if that would be such a bad thing. True, other countries’ interest and our interest may be different and/or opposed, but OTOH, if other countries are being led and represented by decent people with serious approaches to the world, and we’re being led by a brain-damaged Snidely Whiplash, why wouldn’t we be better off in the long run if they prevailed?

  144. 144.

    Gvg

    This is getting so serious that I honestly think someone may kill him. Someone in the government I mean. He really has no clue. We have been throwing out the idea that he could use nukes over personal anger. That would be the war crime to end them all and what would people do if he gave the order and it looked like some might do it? He does have the authority soon.
    If Taiwan gets mad at home for backing off his “promises” they could cancel his hotel. Other deals too. His history is not keeping promises anyway and he changes all the time. I wonder if he realizes he can’t profit if he is always double crossing other governments because they can confiscate properties I’d they get tired of his little ways.

  145. 145.

    Ruckus

    @Tehanu:
    Well if they were looking out for the worlds population that might be acceptable. If they effectively are like the shit-gibbon and only looking out for themselves it would be a major issue. One of the things that some fail to realize is that we have shrunk the world, with widely available air travel and world trade. And it won’t and can’t go back to what the conservative morons think it will, which is the end of WWII (1950s) or the fungelicals (1350s) want. It sucked then and it will suck again, for all but the richest few. Or someone will start a war, over which the shit-gibbon, understanding nothing, will press the button, thinking he will get his way. The only hope is that all the delivery methods fail and we all just kill ourselves. I’m not betting on any positive results. Of course if I’m correct, there won’t be anything to collect. Mutually assured destruction has worked for decades because no one was fucking crazy enough to be the first to go all in. The shit-gibbon has no such restraints. Because he only thinks with the tiny brain in his pants and any system (but especially the nuclear war system) works much better without that as the controlling device.

  146. 146.

    Miss Bianca

    @Ruckus: Get ready for “Real Live Dr. Strangelove!”

    ETA: I mean, you can almost see it now, can’t you? With T-rump in the role of Jack D. Ripper? Only instead of “precious bodily fluids”, it’s germs and tiny, tiny hands. And Henry Kissinger dragged out of retirement to stand in for Strangelove…

  147. 147.

    Ruckus

    @Miss Bianca:
    May I assume that you’ve been nipping at the sacramental wine this evening?

    But yes I see this as a real possibility. So now of course, a minority of us have elected someone with all the intellectual power of a garden gnome that Larry Flint would be proud of, not to mention the attention span of toast. This will end well I’m sure.

  148. 148.

    Miss Bianca

    @Ruckus: If cider counts as sacramental, then guilty as charged. In vino veritas, baby. Or would that be. “in sicerae veritas”?

  152. 152.

    Anne Laurie

    @psychobroad: Believe me — better still, read/remember hovercraft’s comment history here — that’s snark.

    All of our snark-meters are getting thrown out of alignment, from overuse.

  153. 153.

    Это курам на смех

    Trump is going to run the country like a business.

    Thus his administration won’t look any further down the road than how to profit in the next quarter, and won’t pay any attention to the long term.

  155. 155.

    Это курам на смех

    Donald can’t “push the button” because there is no button. If he gets senile enough during his term to order a strike, it doesn’t mean his order would be followed. I think there must be cooler heads in our establishment who would step in to stop him. Bring on the constitutional crisis; we might be due for one.

  158. 158.

    Ruckus

    @Это курам на смех:
    Actually I think Adam wrote about this before. It’s true there is no “button” but if he gives the order it is to be followed if it is lawful. If you are in a position to push that button (and at the point of launch there is a button) you may not be in any position to know lawful or not. If he wanted to wipe out France or Italy, there probably is a very, very good chance that could be interpreted as an unlawful order, probably because there shouldn’t be any targeting info, they are allies. But a nuclear country? IOW how would you know it’s an unlawful order? When I was in we were trained and reminded every so often that we didn’t have to follow an unlawful order, but there was never an actual answer as to what that really meant. It’s a grey area that is taken very seriously but it is not clear cut. OTOH though I seem to recall a situation where an attack order was given but the guys in the silo thought that the order seemed to be off somehow. They were right it was a mistake and they averted an all out war.
    As a side note I’ve said this here before I carried a loaded weapon on security patrol in the navy and had orders that if I saw a person doing something that they shouldn’t be doing or trying to enter or trying to board the ship I had permission to shoot to kill. It was expected. What was also explicitly explained was “You better be right before you do.” That last part is the one that gets you. If you don’t follow an order, you better be right. Because if you are wrong (and live through it) you will be screwed from every angle.

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