It’s 2016, but it might as well be 1816 in South Carolina if you are an unarmed black man and a white cop wants to kill you:
A judge declared a mistrial Monday afternoon in the fatal shooting of an unarmed black man at the hands of a South Carolina former patrolman, after the jury said they could not come to a unanimous verdict.
In a statement read by Circuit Judge Clifton Newman, the jury said “We as the jury regret to inform the court” that they were unable to come “to a unanimous decision in the case of the state versus Michael Slager” on Monday afternoon after a day of questions and deliberation.
“The court therefore must declare a mistrial in this case and I so declare that is case is mistried,” he said after the jury returned to the room and confirmed their decision.
The jury had remained undecided — but not deadlocked — on Monday in the murder trial.
The defense in ex-patrolman Michael Slager’s the five-week trial claimed that he feared for his life when 50-year-old Walter Scott got control of the officer’s stun gun and pointed it at him.
Here’s the video of him chasing Scott, stopping, taking up a shooting stance, and unloading his service weapon into the unarmed man running AWAY from him:
He must have been really “scared.”
It’s now official. You can be executed by the cops, on video, have the cop plant evidence on your still bleeding body, again, on video, have the cop be heard tittering about the adrenaline rush, on audio, and you will not receive justice. But let’s place the blame where it really lies- on Colin Kaepernick for not standing during the National Anthem.
My biggest fear in the next few years with the rise of the neo-nazis and the white supremacists and the normalization of the Trump racist right is that we are going to see this kind of thing, both the shooting and the white holdout on the jury, happening more and more often. Basically, jury nullification in any offense in which the black man is the victim and the aggressor is white. The justice system has never have been equitable for black people in America, but now that it is “acceptable” to be openly racist in public and not only that, get elected President and be appointed to his staff, we are going to see a lot more of this.
In the past, we could rely on the Federal government and the Justice Department to at least make an attempt to address these concerns. But with racist ass Jeff Sessions running the DOJ, it’s going to get worse. Not only will he and the DOJ not pursue these cases, but he will also be gutting the voting rights of minorities so they don’t even have any redress at the ballot box, and on top of that, he is an anti-marijuana zealot and will ramp up on the drug war. You’re all bright people and don’t need a refresher course on the disparate impact of the drug war on people of color.
This is a slowly unfolding disaster. I’m sick. The Klan doesn’t even need to wear robes in public anymore.
JPL
Police officers are trained not to fear for their life and not to shoot someone in the back. If it is retried, maybe justice will be served. At least I hope so.
Ruckus
John, The klan stopped wearing robes in public long ago. And they renamed themselves. Called themselves conservatives.
You do have to admit that the cop had a jury of at least one of his peers.
Waynski
“This is a slowly unfolding disaster.”
I think it’s going to be swift, John. Expect the worse sooner rather than later.
Ruckus
@JPL:
I know that you didn’t just move here from Mars.
Police officers were at one time trained to try to make it look better than to have shot someone in the back.
That’s as close to the truth as I can get using your comment as a starting point. BTW I did at one time believe what you wrote. I’ve lost the idea that there are more good cops than bad, that there is still a way to fix the concept of cops to that which you suggest they are, but I don’t see that being a real possibility any longer.
And yes my cynical meter is pegged at somewhere near 5000. Out of 100.
kindness
It won’t be just black folk soon. Let us not kid ourselves. Trumpettes don’t want us here, don’t consider us American. They aren’t going to just bitch about us. Don’t be shocked when bad things start happening to normal joes & marys. Shit is gonna get real.
I know that sounds shrill. But they won’t be playing by Kingsbury rules. They will be playing by their rules.
mkro
No need to wait for the next few years. Happened last week to former NFL football player Joe McKnight.
Mike in Pasadena
Well said, John. I’m learning about depression first hand. I am calling my legislators and working with my Democratic club, but I already live in a blue state. So although it helps my mental state, it does not help our country very much.
Calouste
Maybe America will eventually come to their senses and abandon jury trials. You need only one juror in 12 to get acquitted of pretty any crime a right winger could commit, and with at least 27% of the population being bonkers, that shouldn’t be too hard.
Hal
Oh well. I’m sure this lone jurors friends and family will all support him. Maybe have a party hosted by the local police union.
Giant meteor, take it away!
Betty Cracker
The Tamir Rice case tore away the last, tattered shred of faith I had in the possibility of justice vis-à-vis unarmed black folks and cops. A child summarily executed on video, and those fuckers walked away! I’m only ashamed I clung to my delusions as long as I did.
SiubhanDuinne
@kindness:
I think you mean Queensberry rules.
And I think you’re correct.
the Conster, la Citoyenne
Anonymous exposed many Ferguson cops as KKK. That’s what the Klan traded their hoods in for – blue uniforms. Malcolm X told us this. The FBI told us this recently – but we white people don’t care and don’t want it even discussed because shut up, that’s why.
Tilda Swinton's Bald Cap
@the Conster, la Citoyenne:
Where have they been lately anyway ?
JPL
@Ruckus: Although I am white, I trained my sons that there were good cops and bad cops, and you can’t tell the difference. Whether fair or not, you always say yes sir. A good friend who is black, was surprised that is what I taught my sons. I’m naive but in this case, 11 jury members found him guilty. Out of those members, only one was black. It needs to be retried.
The police officer killed him in cold blood, and had no value of life
There is the possibility that one asshole will always determine the police officer innocent. In that case we are screwed as a society.
schrodinger's cat
Some animals are more equal than others, we always knew that but now its becoming more and more blatant.
Botsplainer, Cryptofascist Tool of the Oppressor Class
On an awesome note, Der Trumpenfuhrer and his leadership cohort had a long meeting with LCOL (cashiered) Allen West today.
Given that they’re aiming for the purest asshole or greatest incompetent (ideally, in combination) in every slot, I predict that he becomes the nominee for either DHS or Secretary of State.
FEMA could be a possibility, too.
Botsplainer, Cryptofascist Tool of the Oppressor Class
@Tilda Swinton’s Bald Cap:
Doing the real heavy lifting of rooting around in John Podesta’s emails and spreading the story of #pizzagate.
brendancalling
So long, it’s been good to knowya, America
Tilda Swinton's Bald Cap
I guess the cop was economically anxious. Kinda like the dude that shot up the pizza place in D.C., economically anxious.
TriassicSands
Let’s see when we try an African American it is fine to have 12 white jurors decide his or her fate. But when a police officer shoots an unarmed African American all we need is one white racist to subvert justice.
Who says the system isn’t rigged?
This was probably the most extreme case of an unnecessary shooting (Tamir Rice is up there, too), and they couldn’t find 12 fair-minded, non-racist people to sit on a jury. Once again, the police officer gets to claim “I was askeert” and that justifies murder. This is truly depressing.
The prosecutors are going to try again, I guess. That’s good. If they get another hung jury they should try Slager again, and again, and again. If he can’t spend the rest of his life in prison (which penalty he will never receive) then let him spend it being tried for murder. I’d consider that a fair and reasonable use of tax dollars.
Patricia Kayden
@JPL: I assume justice will only be served in the improbable case that the jury is all-Black.
Yep. It’s always been like this so it’s not even shocking.
Botsplainer, Cryptofascist Tool of the Oppressor Class
@Tilda Swinton’s Bald Cap:
Hey, he got home safe – that’s all that matters.
Tom Levenson
Retry.
And resist.
Got nothing more coherent over my rage.
Patricia Kayden
@TriassicSands:
Agreed. He should spend the rest of his life tied up in the “justice” system since he decided to take the life away of someone who posed zero danger to him. No way should he get to walk away scot-free after cold bloodedly killing an unarmed, fleeing man.
Timurid
Just wait until the Dylann Roof mistrial for some real fun…
Botsplainer, Cryptofascist Tool of the Oppressor Class
@Timurid:
Mistrial? Hell, it IS South Carolina. There is a nonzero chance for an outright acquittal.
After all, all the guy did was shoot some n****rs. That shouldn’t be a crime…
/sarcasm
? Martin
Wait.
The officer was arrested and charged with murder, the prosecution apparently made a strong case, and 11 of the 12 jurors were ready to convict. One juror, which nobody could have avoided, is the sole reason we don’t have a verdict in this case. AND, being a mistrial, he’ll almost certainly be tried again with a new jury.
Yes, there’s a delay in justice. Yes, that 12th juror has made a mockery of this, but such is the risk of a citizen-run jury system. But I don’t see that there is anything systemically wrong in this case to suggest that justice won’t prevail. The cases where the officer never gets charged are the really troubling ones – not some rogue juror.
The Moar You Know
@kindness: Already has been, but few and far between and pains have been taken to keep it quiet.
I don’t think those will be the rules after January.
@the Conster, la Citoyenne: I used to buy the line that Malcolm was some kind of extremist. Only thing he was extreme about was telling the goddamned truth, as it turned out.
Patricia Kayden
@Betty Cracker: Rodney King getting the beep beaten out of him and yet the cops getting off because an all-White jury decided that he was a beast who deserved the beating was more than enough for me.
This latest verdict is unbelievable.
JPL
@Patricia Kayden: They have already announced that they will retry the case. It is a shocking outcome, and I can’t imagine how his family is feeling.
Ruckus
@JPL:
On this point you are correct. I’d like to trust cops. Probably we all would. I’m sure the black people I know would, because too many of them have told me that they can’t. But you can’t tell a good cop from a bad one till it’s way past too late. You and I have maybe a 20% better chance of not getting shot for walking down the street or driving to the store than any black person. And that sucks hairy donkey balls as a societal norm.
And John’s other half of the story is wrong as the bad cops in the first place. There is no justice, not as long as we have unlimited bad cops and absolutely noting is being done about it. Are the cops fixing it? Some, maybe. Will the new government that takes over in 45 days? Fuck no, they won’t. First they wouldn’t know how, second they have no desire, third they like it this way and want more of the same.
I wish I was 10 or 20 ys older right now so I’d have less time to see how shitty it is going to get.
Amaranthine RBG
@CalousteYou’re thinking that a judge ( probably a white guy over 50 years old and either appointed or elected) is going to be more on the side of politically powerless black men than a jury?
? Martin
@Patricia Kayden: Oh, come on. 11 members of the jury were white, so we know at least 10 of them voted to convict. If the jury returned a not guilty verdict, I’d be there with you, but that’s not what happened here. You can’t control for every individual when jurors are effectively picked out of a hat.
Mnemosyne
@? Martin:
Since it’s South Carolina and it’s worked once already, what’s to prevent another “rogue juror” from doing the same thing at the next trial? And the next? And the next?
? Martin
@Calouste:
No, you need 12 jurors in 12 to get acquitted. Do people seriously not know how juries work? This was a mistrial. It’s a do-over. There was no verdict. Nobody was acquitted.
trollhattan
Were they split between guilty/not guilty or homicide/manslaughter? Would be interested to know that bit.
Ruckus
@JPL:
One other thing.
Where are all the good cops? We keep hearing that most cops are good, where are they? What are all the good cops doing when the bad cops are killing people, rendering themselves judge, jury and executioner? Where are all the good cops when one of them kills in cold blood?
Where are all these good cops we keep fucking hearing about?
trollhattan
@Mnemosyne: Better job during voir dire?
Patricia Kayden
@? Martin: Do you understand why it is shocking that a cop can’t be found guilty the first time around when there is a damn video of him shooting a fleeing man in the back who poses no danger to him? Yes, I’m probably being over the top since I can’t believe this is happening (again) but this should have been a clear cut case of guilty as hell as charged.
trollhattan
Mike Pence is angling for the Jenn Ruben chair at WaPo. Evidently he’s quite enamored of The Donald’s “broad shoulders.” To my knowledge, no 737s have set down there.
tkrr
@The Moar You Know: Well… Malcolm X started out as an extremist, with the people who no one was going to listen to. He was murdered because he switched to the party that got results, which may have seemed extreme to white people at the time, but really wasn’t. That’s why he’s rightly remembered as a hero.
max
@? Martin: Wait. The officer was arrested and charged with murder, the prosecution apparently made a strong case, and 11 of the 12 jurors were ready to convict. One juror, which nobody could have avoided, is the sole reason we don’t have a verdict in this case. AND, being a mistrial, he’ll almost certainly be tried again with a new jury.
Martin’s right, Cole. We got one sort-Blue Eagle juror holding up the fucking prison queue. And it’s a mistrial, so I expect this will go back to trial.
My biggest fear in the next few years with the rise of the neo-nazis and the white supremacists and the normalization of the Trump racist right is that we are going to see this kind of thing, both the shooting and the white holdout on the jury, happening more and more often. Basically, jury nullification in any offense in which the black man is the victim and the aggressor is white.
Cole. THIS HAS BEEN HAPPENING ALL ALONG. I’m from Dallas, they were shooting black people in the 80’s just the same as today, and even without video YOU COULD TELL someone had been executed. Except everybody lied about it.
The justice system has never have been equitable for black people in America, but now that it is “acceptable” to be openly racist in public and not only that, get elected President and be appointed to his staff, we are going to see a lot more of this. This is a slowly unfolding disaster. I’m sick. The Klan doesn’t even need to wear robes in public anymore.
Edwin Meese. John Ashcroft. This Comey fucker. Buck up, dude, {whispering a shout} THE FUCKERS ARE HEAVILY OUTNUMBERED AT THIS POINT AND THEY KNOW IT.
max
[‘All that bluster and smirking is just that – bluster and bullshit.’]
Patricia Kayden
@Tom Levenson: Rage and fear for me. It’s bad now but it’s about to get much worse — whatever that will mean under Trump/Sessions/neo-Nazi rule. Sigh.
Calouste
@Amaranthine RBG: Judges can be sacked for being biased. It happened to Roy Moore, twice, and Jeff Sessions didn’t get a judgeship because even the Republicans thought he was too racist. There is no way to do anything about rogue jurors.
Botsplainer, Cryptofascist Tool of the Oppressor Class
@? Martin:
You have a lot more faith in the jury system and white people than I do. What happens next is that you’ll have a solid delay of several months prior to the next trial.
I guarantee you that this juror lied through his/her fucking teeth to get empaneled. It being South Carolina, there is a nonzero chance that there will be AT LEAST one (if not more) people on the next venire who will similarly lie, and will undoubted make heartfelt bleats of drawling prayerful and Jesus-y concern for the family of the dead victim while hoping the family heals and sees their way to employ Christian forgiveness, all while demonstrating even GREATER concern for the officer and how he felt, knowing that someone died.
Eventually, the prosecution and the victim’s family give up rather than go through the pain of a trial again. Usually happens somewhere after the second mistrial.
? Martin
@Mnemosyne: That’s a fair point. However, you’re focused on the wrong thing. That a white cop got arrested and charged with murder of a black man in South Carolina is the part that matters most. And you didn’t have a judge try to throw the proceedings. And you have a prosecutor working hard to convict.
Look, and this is especially true with Trump coming into power – the important part is that the public institutions are working properly, and here you have three different branches of the government of South Carolina all working properly. A jury was chosen and it had a bad member on it. That happens. That happens even here in SoCal and in NYC and everywhere else. It cannot be controlled for. That’s why mistrials are a thing and why it can be retried in the first place. The fact that 10 white people in South Carolina were willing to convict shows that everything is on the right track here, even if it is a bit delayed.
Nobody can claim that there is any systemic breakdown here (even to racism being a motive – it could just as easily be broad authoritarianism or some 2nd amendment yahoo pleased the one with the gun emerged victorious) when a randomly chosen juror goes out of band. That can happen in any case anywhere in this country at any time. That is not data – that isn’t even an anecdote.
JPL
@Ruckus: The police union is not doing a service, because they support the bad cops. Truth be known, the AMA is the same way. They make it more difficult to speak against those who ruin their profession. The other thing that is happening with the local police is they keep cutting their pay. You are not going to get qualified people at that pay.
Just my imo.
You might be right.. the good cops are gone.
Botsplainer, Cryptofascist Tool of the Oppressor Class
@trollhattan:
Can’t do better during voir dire if somebody is willing to lie to get on the panel.
Calouste
@ Martin: And why would the do-over go differently than the first take? There’s just be another juror who forces a mistrial until the prosecution just gives up. You only need 1 in 12 to be an outright racist, and in the general population it’s probably about 1 in 4. And then we’re not even talking about South Carolina specifically.
Kryptik
@Ruckus:
Either they’re fed the ‘thin blue line’ gruel and convinced to keep their trap shut, or they’re subject to harassment to convince them of the first, usually leading them to destroy the ‘good apples’ physically, mentally, emotionally, and/or publicly. Whistleblowers and reformers in the cops tend to get the thin blue shiv in the back.
Phylllis
@trollhattan: The letter the juror wrote to the Judge Friday (subverting established rules that only the jury foreperson communicates directly with the judge, btw) indicated the juror would/could not vote to convict no matter the charge.
Ruckus
@Patricia Kayden:
And even worse, the LAPD testified that the cops went too far, that they beat the shit out of him rather than just trying to arrest him.
And they still got off.
Every one of these cases just confirm what I’ve known for decades. Yes there are good cops. Yes it can be a stressful job. Yes cops are human and can make mistakes. But the constant cold blooded killing and beating for no fucking reason tells me that there are far, far more bad cops than is generally thought. My friend who made an illegal arrest so that a guy doing nothing wrong could spend 3 nights in his jail, while I was sitting in the car on a ride along told me everything I needed to know about bad cops. It’s their law, it’s their decision, it’s just our lives.
Schlemazel
@? Martin:
Jesus. You can’t really be that dense can you?
In a nation where 46% of the voters willingly voted for an incompetent racist for POTUS and jury consultants can identify which white guy out of 20 that is you really think the problem is that one guy and not really a problem?
Your white privilege is showing.
trollhattan
@Botsplainer, Cryptofascist Tool of the Oppressor Class:
Maybe, but that’s what the process is for–to suss out oddball and prejudiced jurors and good attorneys and judges are pretty good at it. Too, the notion of a “sleeper” juror getting on via subterfuge seems pretty remote–99% of perspective jurors are fixated on getting out of jury duty.
trollhattan
@Ruckus:
Quite concerned that come January, the Justice Department will no longer be the alternative path to justice where the locals have failed. Not that they’ve been all that helpful the last two years but at least they investigate. Under Sessions that won’t happen, ever.
TriassicSands
@Ruckus:
See Dragnet, ChiPs, Streets of San Francisco, Andy Griffith, Barney Miller, Columbo, and Adam-12 for some of them.
bystander
How long before the holdout juror is lionized by the Trumpanzees?
I’ve vowed to abbreviate POTUS for the duration as POS.
mkro
@trollhattan: Except of course for that 1 single juror who for some unknown reason just isn’t worried about getting home. You know, like in this case, or Steve Avery’s case …
bystander
@TriassicSands: Here in NYC we’re glad the bad ones are outweighed by the collective casts of the Law & Order franchises.
Ruckus
@JPL:
It doesn’t even matter if they are or not. There are not enough of them and they can do, from very little to nothing, to change the culture overall, that their numbers do not matter.
Look at what Martin is saying. He is correct. A white officer got tried for shooting a black man and will be retried. In SC. I lived in SC for 2 yrs. Believe me, this is overwhelmingly huge. But will it change the police culture? No, it won’t. And given what happens in 45 days there will be no pressure to make that change. None.
joel hanes
@kindness:
Don’t be shocked when bad things start happening to normal joes & marys.
In the run-up to the 2008 Republican National Convention in Minnesota,
the Minnesota-nice cops co-operated with Republican Feds to
– wiretap activists planning legal protests
– PRE-EMPTIVELY ARREST on trumped-up grounds the leadership of the proposed protest actions,
and keep them in jail until after the Convention was over
– confine the protests that did occur to “Free Speech Zones” far from the convention, where they were ignored by conventioneers and media alike.
No, that’s not lynching or a murder, but the Rs haven’t given one fig for the rights or the life of anyone who gets in their way since Nov 2000.
J R in WV
@Calouste:
It takes a unanimous jury to acquit someone, this was a mis-trial, which means they can (yeah, right!) try the “officer” again until a unanimous jury either convicts him or acquits him. It does vary by state, so the details may not be quite the same, but I’m pretty sure one hold out juror doesn’t acquit anyone anywhere.
It can get you out of trouble, though, after reluctant prosecutors fail to convict someone. Doubt he will work as a cop again, though.
goblue72
@The Moar You Know: MLK has a holiday and Malcolm is treated like an epithet because Dr. King told white people the truths they wanted to hear and Malcolm X told white people the truths they did not.
Ruckus
@Kryptik:
I’ve long ago taken to calling it the thick blue line. A thin line can easily be erased. This line doesn’t seem to be able to be blown up with anti-tank weapons.
And just so everyone knows, I’ve known some cops I think are the good ones. The ones that actually like the law and want to live in a society that respects people and their lives. These of course are the cops you don’t or very rarely hear about. These are the ones who respect the job and the people who pay them to protect all of us. They seem to be rare and getting much rarer these days. But then that’s been true for all my life.
trollhattan
@Phylllis:
Thanks for the detail. Sounds like they were screwed no matter what.
Botsplainer
@trollhattan:
Been there, done that, bought the tshirt multiple occasions. You’d be surprised at the number of people who want to be on jury trials, even lengthy, complex trials.
grumpy realist
@TriassicSands: Well, it was the second time around when we managed to actually get a verdict on Blago here in Illinois. One juror first time around refused to convict him because “all politicians in Illinois act like that.”
It wasn’t a “we found him innocent.” Let’s see what happens in Round Two.
Phylllis
@trollhattan: Apparently the Judge read the letter from the bench. It’s reproduced in this Jezebel thread. He starts off with “I understand the position of the court but I cannot in good conscience consider a guilty verdict.”
Maybe one of our resident lawyers can help explain why this person wasn’t replaced with an alternate juror once this declaration was made?
debbie
@JPL:
Are you sure? I don’t think they are anymore. Since 9/11, I never hear anything other than shoot to kill and lethal force.
What I never hear is a police department talking about needing to update their training after a fatal incident.
trollhattan
@Phylllis:
Darn good question. The Bundy klan got off after the sole holdout for conviction juror was replaced by an alternate.
PIGL
@joel hanes: preemptive arrest.
I’ve been trying to warn people for years that this is only one step away from the death squads. one step.
rikyrah
I can’t disagree with one word you wrote, Cole. Not one word.????
Botsplainer
@Phylllis: I lost a juror to a personal health crisis in a long federal case 20 years ago, but the alternates had been released when instructions got charged. IIRC, we went with 11, under Federal rules.
? Martin
@Calouste:
Because unlike historical accounts of similar things happening, this is on the front page of every news site that I see. This is not some quiet happening nobody is noticing, and that makes it a lot harder for this sort of thing to continue. And there’s a case before USSC right now regarding racism in the jury room and whether a verdict should be able to be impeached based on juror testimony regarding racism. As it stands now, so long as a small minority of the population are racist, then empaneling a jury that will result in a racist verdict is relatively difficult – a mistrial is the most they would normally achieve. With the impeachment ruling that would expand, making it harder for racists to throw cases.
And if it was as bad as you claim, why didn’t 3 out of 12 (your 1 in 4) vote to acquit? How did we even get 92% of the jury (at least 91% of the whites on the jury) to convict?
And for those opposed to the jury system, there’s countless cases to point to where racist or otherwise corrupt judges or prosecutors have thrown dozens or hundreds of cases because they represent single points of failure. Corrupting a randomly chosen jury is much more difficult and the impact is only to a single case.
Humdog
Don’t you wonder if there will be prosecutions for the people tallied up on the list of hate crimes committed since the rancid Cheeto pulled off the con on 11/9? How much do you bet they just disappear?
Had a run in with a deplorable this weekend in blue blue California. At the beach, dog on a leash, come up to 2 unleashed dogs whose owners shout, “they’re friendly, they’re friendly!”. Unleashed dogs attack my dog on a leash, lots of screams, pulling snarly dogs off my dog, and I am cursing, as one would. Owners say defensively, dogs are allowed off leash at this beach. I respond, yes, but not to attack others, they are supposed to be under voice control. I am told to fuck off. I respond, you sound like a trump voter. He proudly replies that, yes he is a deplorable. He was bigger than me and I am ashamed to admit the scenarios that ran through my mind, most having to do with bloody driftwood.
I hate how all this hate is changing me. I did not like haters. I had no respect for people who don’t give shit. And here I am trying to not give a shit and hating people.
Elizabelle
The name and image and address of that ridiculous holdout juror will come out, and we will have our designated “white supremacist/blue lives matter uber alles” poster moron for 2016. He or she may come to wish s/he’d done the actual duty and fairly considered the charges.
The juror will not skate. In the court of public opinion (nationwide and, very likely, among people in Charleston too).
Shame the state has to mount another trial. Walter Scott will get justice. It’s just delayed.
debbie
@Botsplainer, Cryptofascist Tool of the Oppressor Class:
I hope the Establishment GOP is suitably nervous about Trump’s choices. He’s doing it in their name and it’s their legacy that’s at stake.
Kay
@Botsplainer, Cryptofascist Tool of the Oppressor Class:
Podesta’s emails already seem like a long time ago. The rice recipe- incredible the sheer man hours that were wasted.
a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)
@trollhattan: You must be a hell of a lot better trial lawyer than I am. After 70+ juries I can’t promise you I’d be able to suss out an oddball/prejudiced juror with enough certainty that I’d take a chance on that potential when the next one in line to go into the box after a peremptory would indicate more obvious problems. It’s not always as easy as it reads/sounds, especially as a prosecutor in a case where you know folks may be inclined to acquit – for whatever reason, at least in my experience. Again, you may be a hell of a lot better than I am.
@Botsplainer: And exactly what I’ve seen/done, also, too.
Kay
My husband does criminal jury trials- he’s done both sides- prosecution and defense. He thinks maybe the way to pick these juries is not to focus on race (they’ll lie) but to look for levels of gun-nuttery. Thinks that might be an accurate enough proxy to look for in a juror you don’t want and it’s something they’ll admit or even brag about.
Botsplainer
@a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q):
“But they swore to tell the truth by God, under penalties of PERJURY!!!!”
Lolol
MomSense
@Timurid:
I’m still fuming about the Malheur malcontents! I don’t think I’ll ever get over it.
Mnemosyne
@MomSense:
Yep, this is the problem — while most people are motivated to get off juries, these racist malcontents are motivated to get on the jury specifically so they can pull bullshit like this.
Elizabelle
@Kay: Screening for gun nuttery would do it.
That’s how the Trayvon Martin case defense attorney selected his jury. They let that nice George Zimmerman off.
And maybe for policeman wannabes, too.
raven
@Elizabelle: If they had charged Zimmerman with manslaughter they would have won.
notoriousJRT
I read this news and feel a visceral need to vomit. It is inconceivable to me that this cop gets anything but locked away with the key chucked into the Pacific Ocean. Every time I think things cannot get worse, the universe proves me wrong.
Kay
@Elizabelle:
Right. He followed Martin. That’s when he started to think about it. He explained it better than I am but he thinks they’re almost transferring gun worship into defense of shooters. The shooter can’t be in the wrong. Anyhow. Close enough and easier to suss out because gun nuts flash on the issue in a way normal people don’t.
notoriousJRT
@Betty Cracker:
You are right, of course. I thought that a cop HUNTING and murdering a suspect would be cut and dried. It is too much.
Drunkenhausfrau
I have been having fantasies of becoming a new Equalizer … I drink too much.
But seriously, Cole, you are usually right and that really is depressing. I don’t see any solution.
Phylllis
@Botsplainer: Now that you say that, I recall that the alternates on the federal jury I served on several years ago were released once we received our instructions.
debbie
@Kay:
And yet the prosecutor never pointed out that Trayvon was protecting himself from a gun nut who was stalking him?
Mnemosyne
@raven:
I doubt it. When Florida passed their Stand Your Ground law, it also changed the language of the rest of the law, so all Zimmermann had to do was say that he “felt” he was in fear of his life and the jury was required to acquit him for self-defense.
As I’ve pointed out before, here in California we’ve had a law for over 100 years that has some elements of that, but with one big difference: if you started the fight, you’re not allowed to claim self-defense. In Florida, that bar doesn’t exist. So, yes, it was totally legal under Florida for Zimmermann to follow a teenager at night, pick a fight with him, and kill him with a claim that he felt that his life was in danger. The only thing that matters in Florida is the immediate fight, not what led up to the fight.
Elizabelle
@raven: Maybe. Did the jurors say that, after their verdict?
Although, it would be hard to justify only a manslaughter charge to the Martin family. It pretty much admits “black teenager lives don’t matter that much.” Imagine if that jury had balked at convicting even on the lesser offense.
These cases are (a) not justice and (b) sad in the extreme.
I will never forget Trayvon Martin’s face. Never.
Kay
@Elizabelle:
We had a 15 yr old shoot and kill a 16 year old here accidentally a couple of years ago. I know the lawyer who was appointed to represent the shooter and I once needed his phone number so googled him. Gun nuts sites came up. To them it wasn’t about a 15 yr old shooting a 16 yr old- it was about a threat to guns. That was the whole frame- would the gun owner (an adult – the shooter’s uncle) be harshly punished for dropping a loaded gun on a washer in the garage and walking away – that’s where the kid picked it up- he found it on the washer while the two boys were in the garage. That was the issue to them- defense of guns.
notoriousJRT
@ Martin:
You can say what you like. A hung jury in this case is perplexing and outrageous. The Bundy acquitals: perplexing and outrageous. People are just fucking stupid, I guess. And, I have anecdotal evidence based upon the juries on which I have served.
notoriousJRT
@ Martin: That a white cop got arrested and charged with murder of a black man in South Carolina is the part that matters most. And you didn’t have a judge try to throw the proceedings. And you have a prosecutor working hard to convict.
Your bar is too fucking low for me.
Gvg
@Patricia Kayden: my aunt saw an interview with one of the Rodney King jurors right after. Aunt said it must be a defense lawyer strategy to try to get morans on a jury. The lady was an actual idiot. Defense showed the video frame by frame so that everyone appeared to move in jerks. The juror claimed it showed the cops never actually touched King.
I think video does make a difference most times but when it fails spectaculorly, we remember. Keep filming. Keep trying. Bitterness though justified could make some of us give up and we can’t. I am discouraged I’ll admit but mad too.
bemused
@trollhattan:
Holy crap! 12 times (so far) Pence talked about broad shoulders. Seriously, this is very weird and creepy.
John Phillips
Ice Cube Quote ‘from When will they shoot’ from the Predator in 1994. “The KKK wears 3 piece suits”
barbequebob
@Hal: wouldn’t be surprised if its more than just a party. Wonder if the holdout juror is going to discover in a year or two that he just came into a large inheritance from a long lost relative?
? Martin
@notoriousJRT:
That’s the bar you get in a democracy. You want a higher bar, go find an authoritarian state. In the US you cannot guarantee that every juror will be sufficiently competent or open-minded. That goes for voters and even for elected officials – which is why the legislature has so fucking many of them. The best you can hope for from a random sampling of humans are policies that ensure that public servants are doing right (which happened in every situation here with the exception of the accused police officer) and a jury that is statistically likely to reach the correct decision. We didn’t fail that last test, we just had to abort it and do it over.
But this is also the reason why the death penalty is bad policy – it’s irreversible in a citizen-based system which we should all know is going to be flawed, no matter how hard we work to minimize those flaws.
Now, the thing to be outraged about is that the cop acted the way he did to begin with, and that there are police in countless other cases not even being charged. Tamir Rice’s family didn’t even get the benefit of a trial of their child’s killer. That’s far more outrageous.
liberal
@notoriousJRT: fact is, sadly, that there are plenty of cases where cops execute white people and aren’t even charged.
Sure, the whole thing is way worse if you’re black. But AFAICT prosecutors do everything they can not to charge cops, and juries don’t like to convict them.
liberal
@? Martin: yep.
raven
@Elizabelle: I was wrong, didn’t think they gave the jury that option but they did.
Ruckus
@notoriousJRT:
That it is. But. And it’s a big, firm, round but, in SC for decades there was no bar to be lower than. This actually is a big deal, the system is working as it is supposed to. There was a trial. Yes there was a person on the jury that can not see their civic duty. We assume why and are probably correct but you never know exactly why this juror could not convict no matter what. He/she should never have been on a jury if they can not do that. I was called for jury duty for a capital case once and was told that we probably would be asked if we could impose the max penalty if it came to that. I would never have been impaneled if I had been asked if I could impose the death penalty as I do not believe in it. (Fortunately the person pled out and there never was a trial. I think they offered him a penalty he could live with.)
Back to the point at hand. We don’t get to always like the outcome but we should at least acknowledge, as Martin has done, when the system actually works as it is supposed to. That the system was fucked up enough to get to the point of mistrial in the first place (the police shooting) is where we should focus until the next trial. And it’s not that we shouldn’t be outraged, but this is the system we have, checks and somewhat of a balance. That we get that only rarely is an issue for sure. That it has almost never has reasonable balance is to me a major problem.
debbie
@bemused:
Maybe a secret coded response to Craig’s wide stance?
liberal
@mkro: I’m surprised how little people talk about the Avery case.
After watching an episode, I felt the same way I felt after the Treyvon Martin execution, just pissed off. Really pissed off.
XTPD
@liberal: I actually remember watching the verdict live expecting a conviction on manslaughter, and being completely heartbroken during the acquittal – much like during the night of November 8th-9th, actually.
But on the plus side, everybody hates Zimmerman now and incompetent-ass Corey got kicked out this year, so.
…also, haven’t watched Making a Murderer, but the documentary about David Protess is my shit.
lamh36
@? Martin:
@tanehisicoates
Re: Walter Scott. When DA sounds like the defense, can’t really be surprised by a mistrial. This is incredible.nytimes.com/…/walter-scott-michael-slager-north-… …
Roger Moore
@notoriousJRT:
I think they’re completely different orders of perplexing and outrageous. The hung jury here is the result of a single rogue juror who was refusing to convict. The acquittal in the Malheur case was much worse because it involved a whole jury getting it completely wrong.
Mary G
I want to set up a charity to give Mary G phones to poor people so more videos can be taken. Because I talk to the white people I know still harbor prejudice to try to get them to change, but it can be like talking to a wall. Evidence they see with their own eyes, however, does make a difference. One of my targets is enraged at this verdict, because he saw the video and it’s so blatant.
The Ancient Randonneur
The only good cop, is a ….
LongHairedWeirdo
John, be scared, and be angry. But also remember:
Progress is most often made when the ugly, vicious hate is made visible.
People don’t rise up when “a few African Americans complain they’re being treated unfairly”. They rise up when they see wholesale ugliness that really shocks them.
That doesn’t make it right – nothing can make it right. But *don’t despair*. Stay angry; stay scared; but fight for, and believe in, justice. Things will get better.