Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

… pundit janitors mopping up after the gop

The lights are all blinking red.

Insiders who complain to politico: please report to the white house office of shut the fuck up.

Yeah, with this crowd one never knows.

Speaking of republicans, is there a way for a political party to declare intellectual bankruptcy?

Oppose, oppose, oppose. do not congratulate. this is not business as usual.

DeSantis transforming Florida into 1930s Germany with gators and theme parks.

Pessimism assures that nothing of any importance will change.

Following reporting rules is only for the little people, apparently.

If America since Jan 2025 hasn’t broken your heart, you haven’t loved her enough.

I like political parties that aren’t owned by foreign adversaries.

Bad people in a position to do bad things will do bad things because they are bad people. End of story.

Republicans: The threats are dire, but my tickets are non-refundable!

Let the trolls come, and then ignore them. that’s the worst thing you can do to a troll.

It’s easy to sit in safety and prescribe what other people should be doing.

Of course you can have champagne before noon. That’s why orange juice was invented.

There is no compromise when it comes to body autonomy. You either have it or you do not.

The next time the wall street journal editorial board speaks the truth will be the first.

If ‘weird’ was the finish line, they ran through the tape and kept running.

Sadly, media malpractice has become standard practice.

People are complicated. Love is not.

Just because you believe it, that does not make it true.

It’s all just conspiracy shit beamed down from the mothership.

They love authoritarianism, but only when they get to be the authoritarians.

You are here: Home / Open Threads / The Crumbling Temple of Broder

The Crumbling Temple of Broder

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German Lopez at Vox pointed out a paragraph published in yesterday’s NYT that exemplifies that publication’s “false equivalence” problem. Here it is:

false-equivalence

The paper pushed back, noting that its report was based on a letter from the UM president and adding a link to the letter. But the letter doesn’t classify the incidents as equivalent expressions of “bias.”

What we have here, fellow citizens, is an addict who is incapable of admitting that there is a problem. We’ve tried interventions. It hasn’t worked. Codependency isn’t an option. Hide the wallet and keys and let them hit rock bottom, I guess.

Anyway, I’ve got no answers. I won’t even classify this as “Not Normal,” because unfortunately, it is, and that’s part of the reason we find ourselves at this interesting juncture in our history.

Anyhoo, feel free to discuss happier topics. Open thread!

Reader Interactions

147Comments

  3. 3.

    Corner Stone

    “Hey man, your shoe is untied”
    *punches that guy in the face*
    NYT: It seems both sides are having issues after the election.

  5. 5.

    Corner Stone

    I love the argument that a CEO who has spent his entire career driving down wages and eliminating jobs, generally treating workers like shit, is now going to change his tune as SecLabor.

  6. 6.

    Patricia Kayden

    Threatening someone with physical violence is not in the same category as claiming (rightfully) that a Trump supporter is racist. Why can’t NYT figure that out?

  7. 7.

    rikyrah

    The continued threatening of women (mostly) is a problem.

    It’s a serious problem from Ferret Head’s supporters.

    They WILL roll upon the wrong one….and..oh well.

    THERE IS NO BOTH SIDES.

    anytime a supporter of theirs has rolled up on the wrong one and been shown why they shouldn’t, THEY have been the aggressor.

    THEY want to party like it’s 1948.

    When those of us who will prove that it’s 2016…oh well.

    NOBODY is playing with them.

    And, BOTH SIDES DON’T DO IT.

  8. 8.

    Hal

    I mentioned yesterday that Chris Hayes is hosting a town hall in Kenosha Wisconsin with Bernie Sanders in “Trump Country”. I guess we’re supposed to get insight into what Hillary Clinton and the dems did wrong to lose the election. I’m expecting lots of mansplaining. Also, any chance they’ll ask Trump voters when and if they ever voted for a Democrat? Doubt it.

  10. 10.

    rikyrah

    I will ask again……

    Just exactly what we are supposed to compromise on?

    The removal of healthcare for 20 million Americans?

    The Muslim Registry?

    Seeing, what, a million DREAMERS thrown out of this country and families torn apart?

    The destruction of the American Social Safety Net?

    The taking away of abortion and a woman’s right to self-determination?

    Just say OK, when a RACIST, in word and professional deed, is nominated to become the CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER OF THIS COUNTRY?

    Just be OK with a White Supremacist and Anti-Semite in the White House holding a FORMAL Advisor position?

    I’m curious, just what the phuck do people believe I’m supposed to compromise on with these muthaphuckas?

  11. 11.

    hovercraft

    Your new national security advisor America.

    Incoming national security adviser Michael Flynn said in August that “radical Islamist countries” had worked out a deal with drug cartels on the U.S.-Mexican border in order to provide “lanes of entry” past border security.

    Flynn, in an interview with Breitbart’s Matthew Boyle surfaced Thursday night by CNN’s KFILE team, said he had seen pictures of Arabic-language signs near the United States border that would help people under orders from “radical Islamist countries”—he mentioned Iran specifically—to cross over without detection.

    “I know from my friends in the Border Patrol, in CBP, that there are countries–radical Islamist countries, state-sponsored–that are cutting deals with Mexican drug cartels for some of what they call the ‘lanes of entry’ into our country,” Flynn said. “And I have personally seen the photos of the signage along those paths that are in Arabic. They’re like way points along that path as you come in. Primarily, in this case the one that I saw was in Texas and it’s literally, it’s like signs, that say, in Arabic, ‘this way, move to this point.’ It’s unbelievable.”

  12. 12.

    Clowncar Glovebox

    History often glosses over the many rude incivilities uttered by Jews to brownshirts in the lead-up to Kristallnacht.

  13. 13.

    rikyrah

    @Hal:

    I mentioned yesterday that Chris Hayes is hosting a town hall in Kenosha Wisconsin with Bernie Sanders in “Trump Country”.

    I saw that bullshyt.

    Will they bring up the THOUSANDS OF WISCONSIN VOTERS UNABLE TO VOTE BECAUSE OF THE VOTER ID LAW, WHICH IS FAR MORE THAN THE MARGIN OF FERRET HEAD’S VICTORY?

    Somehow, I doubt it.

    Phuck Chris Hayes for this bullshyt.

  15. 15.

    Major Major Major Major

    We need to disabuse people of the (media-created) notion that the media is the arbiter of truth and reality, since reforming the media is not an option. Not the wingers obviously, but they’ve been believing crazy shit for centuries.

    @Corner Stone: the wingers have a major hate-on for him today because he doesn’t hate immigrants, so there’s that.

  16. 16.

    hovercraft

    @rikyrah:
    Everything, we got “our” president, obviously a lot of white people voted for him, so now if you could just sit back and STFU, it’s “our” turn to have a president who represents “us” and “our” interests. The facts that the other 43 were white males, and that Obama served us all equally do not seem relevant.

    Reposting from downstairs:

    Rachel started the segment by pointing out that President Obama’s overall approval rating is at 50%. However, while his favorability with Republicans is 9%, it is only 5% of Trump voters.

    Rachel then pivoted to issue after issue where a large percentage of Trump voters were severely misinformed. They live in a virtually fact-free or made-up-fact environment.

    The stock market under President Obama soared. The Dow Jones Industrial average went from 7,949.09 to 19,614.91, again, up 11,665.72. In other words, it more than doubled. 39% of Trump voters think the stock market went down under Obama.

    Unemployment dropped from 7.8% to 4.6% during the Obama administration. Clinton, Johnson, Stein and other voters are well aware of that fact.

    But not Donald Trump voters; 67% of them believe unemployment rose under President Obama.

    Rachel continued.
    •40% of Trump voters believe that Donald Trump won the popular vote.
    •60% of Trump voters believe that millions voted illegally for Clinton.
    •73% of Trump voters believe that George Soros paid Trump protesters.
    •29% of Trump voters believe California vote should not be included in the popular vote.

    You need to compromise on the fact that the new regime is here to undo all the “oppression” these poor people have had to endure these last eight long years.

  17. 17.

    Corner Stone

    Obviously Trump enjoys keeping the air filled with lies, bullshit and general distractions. But I am still trying to wrap my brain around the idea that he will maintain a position with a reality TV show while he is presidentin’.
    That is Joe Biden literally one of the trashiest, gross, insane things I have heard to this point of the election.
    And no one’s going to say anything? GHWB? GWB? Any prominent R in the country? It’s just ok?

  18. 18.

    Waldo

    @Melville:

    Ok. One side acts with racial bias, other side accuses them of racial bias – see, both sides!!

    Exactly. If the one side would just quit harping on the other side’s racial bias, the problem would immediately disappear.

  19. 19.

    dedc79

    It’s an odd thing. Racism is frowned upon, so much so that the press has come to view calling someone a racist basically the worst thing you can say about them. That in itself wouldn’t be problematic, but as a result the press is hesitant to label anyone who doesn’t wear a white robe or a swastika tattoo a racist. So basically you’re now more likely to get criticized for calling out a racist than the racist is for saying racist things.

  20. 20.

    Corner Stone

    @Major Major Major Major: Of course he doesn’t. He likes anyone he can pay lower wages to. Immigrants, to him, are a way to break the back of all working class people. Just as a stop gap until he can perfect the robot delivery service and eliminate 90% of the low wage humans.

  22. 22.

    hovercraft

    @Major Major Major Major:

    the wingers have a major hate-on for him today because he doesn’t hate immigrants, so there’s that.

    Well they better not dig to far into the backgrounds of any of the appointees, most CEO’s like the cheap labor immigrants provide, and if this is an issue they care about, perhaps they should have looked to the top of their ticket at the man who was running against immigrants while hiring more for Mar a Lago while running for president, because he couldn’t find any locals to work there.

  23. 23.

    debit

    My fellow Minnesotans.

    The couple, who run a film company that does not currently advertise wedding services, say the state’s anti-discrimination laws would infringe on their freedom of speech, in the event that they were ever asked to film a same-sex wedding.

    AS I posted on their book of faces, I bet it’s a scam. Oh boohoo, we told everyone we were bigots and are now actually being called bigots! To our faces! Luckily, we have a GoFundMe page!

  24. 24.

    gene108

    Calling a white man racist is just as bad as threatening to set a woman on fire. I mean, white men are supposed to be out and about in public, but women? I’m sure she has a kitchen to clean, laundry to fold, etc. and a husband to please…

  25. 25.

    Corner Stone

    Everytime Trumps flaps his flabby jawhole about slapping a tariff on companies that want to move jobs elsewhere and then sell goods here I am dying for anyone to get on camera and ask, “Does that apply to your goods as well? How about Ivanka’s?”

  27. 27.

    hovercraft

    @Corner Stone:

    I am still trying to wrap my brain around the idea that he will maintain a position with a reality TV show while he is presidentin’.

    Oh stop whining Obama spends hours and hours and hours playing golf, and no one ever complains.

    “Well, okay, but were we so concerned about the hours and hours and hours spent on the golf course of the current president?” Conway asked in response. “I mean, the presidents have a right to do things in their spare time or their leisure time. Nobody objects to that.”

  29. 29.

    MomSense

    WTF NYT! The first is criminal threatening + religious bias = HATE CRIME. The second is expressing an opinion. The NYT is now trying to balance out fucking hate crimes. This is where we are right now. The fourth estate as an institution, with a critical role to play in a functioning democracy, has failed.

    At this point we should be asking them why. Are they corrupt, stupid, being coerced by a foreign power? Why are they doing this. Enquiring minds want to know.

    ETA Is the FBI investigating? Is the University investigating? WTF. I’m livid.

  30. 30.

    HRA

    Yesterday morning I received a phone call on my cell – “Good morning. I am LS from the local Democrat party calling you to participate in a questionnaire. This call will bee recorded.”

    I cut him off saying I was not interested. He said OK and hung up.

    1. I know LS and this was not him.
    2. He was certainly not fully awake.
    3. How did he get my cell number?
    4. The local Democrat Party has not called me for a very long time. What calls I did receive were the daily 1 morning and 1 dinner time for days from other states that were irritating the hell out of me for many weeks. Why the hell would you call NYS?

    Small stuff? It may be yes or it may be important to consider what is going on.

    .

  33. 33.

    Corner Stone

    I think one of the main reasons I hate 2016 so much is because it took the brightest, shining and hopeful thing that has happened in some time and then ruined it utterly.
    For a glorious time we could bask in the joy that was Scalia still being dead. And have hope, just a little hope, that some of the positive progress we had earned might be enshrined into law for a generation or more.
    This fucking year.

  35. 35.

    germy

    Speaking of crumbling, I saw this recently:

    For years I’ve been telling people we’ve been living in the American Brezhnev years, now it looks like we are primed to experience something a whole lot worse.

    “Brezhnev ruled the Soviet Union from 1964 to 1982, presiding over its long decline. While he enjoyed giving himself medals and flexing Soviet power, the system began to rot and most people, even in the party itself, stopped believing in the party ideology. Similarly, our political class profess to love freedom and democracy, all while democratic institutions crumble. Elections are bought and sold, and voters can’t be bothered to show up at the polls. Gridlock and acrimony have led to a do-nothing government no longer even able to pass the most basic legislation. Social institutions are hardly faring better. Our universities, once the pride of the world, have become money-grubbing enterprises whose high cost make debtors out of their students. Roads crack and bridges fall due to lack of funds. As labor unions have been crushed, workers are seeing their wages shrink while the wealthy see unprecedented gains. Abroad America’s failed War On Terror has, like the USSR’s ill-advised invasion of Afghanistan, exposed a once mighty empire’s clay feet. Belief in institutions has been broken, and the fact the military and police routinely come out on top when Americans are polled about institutions that they trust shows an authoritarian longing that belies all of the democracy talk.”

  36. 36.

    Corner Stone

    @hovercraft:

    Camerota pointed out that conservatives have criticized Obama for spending time playing golf and asked if Trump would also continue to play golf.

    The obvious response to KAC’s claim about golf is, “The time playing golf is not being paid by two major corporations who in turn respond to major advertisers. So how is time riding a bicycle or playing golf equivalent to working on a for-profit TV show?”

  37. 37.

    Betty Cracker

    @Corner Stone: A WaPo reporter on Twitter tried to get a handle on why Trump’s presidentin’ while executive producing a TV show was such a big deal. I had a reply:

  40. 40.

    hovercraft

    Bloomberg

    December 8, 2016 — 11:34 PM EST

    ➞ Advisers seeking to identify staff involved in climate policy

    ➞ Document drills down into agency operations with 65 questions

    Advisers to President-elect Donald Trump are developing plans to reshape Energy Department programs, help keep aging nuclear plants online and identify staff who played a role in promoting President Barack Obama’s climate agenda.

    The transition team has asked the agency to list employees and contractors who attended United Nations climate meetings, along with those who helped develop the Obama administration’s social cost of carbon metrics, used to estimate and justify the climate benefits of new rules. The advisers are also seeking information on agency loan programs, research activities and the basis for its statistics, according to a five-page internal document circulated by the Energy Department on Wednesday. The document lays out 65 questions from the Trump transition team, sources within the agency said.

  42. 42.

    Another Scott

    @MomSense: I think it’s important to remember that “The NY Times” isn’t doing this stuff, it’s particular people at the Times. The editors, etc. Maybe on direction from management, but the slanting is being done by people. We should call out the people who are doing it to get them, specifically, to change.

    NewsDiffs seems to be a good site for investigating stuff like this. Here’s the NewsDiff’s on changes to this NY Times story – “on both sides” was stricken in a later version (dunno if the Times publicly noted the change).

    Progress? :-/

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  43. 43.

    rikyrah

    Trump’s Con Job Exposed
    by Nancy LeTourneau
    December 9, 2016 9:29 AM
    POLITICAL ANIMAL BLOG

    Yesterday was not a good day for anyone who still believed the con job Trump ran on about concern for working class Americans.

    Last night in Iowa, he was on the defensive about feeding the swamp (rather than draining it) by picking so many millionaires/billionaires to be members of his cabinet, saying, “I want people that made a fortune.” On his choice of Andrew Puzder to be Labor Secretary, even the folks at Breibart were unhappy with him. But the much-vaunted Carrier deal continues to unravel, leading Trump to show his disdain for working class people.

    It all started on Tuesday when Chuck Jones, president of United Steelworkers 1999 (which represents Carrier employees) said that Trump “lied his ass off” when he said that he’d saved 1,100 jobs at the company. Jones had learned from Carrier just prior to Trump’s victory lap in Indianapolis that the number was really about 730 jobs. It became his task the next day to explain to the remaining 550 workers that the deal didn’t include them and they’d lose their jobs after all.

    Obviously that comment upset our thin-skinned president-elect and he did what he usually does…he tried to bully Jones on twitter.

    Chuck Jones, who is President of United Steelworkers 1999, has done a terrible job representing workers. No wonder companies flee country!

    — Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) December 8, 2016

    If United Steelworkers 1999 was any good, they would have kept those jobs in Indiana. Spend more time working-less time talking. Reduce dues

    — Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) December 8, 2016

    It looks like Trump might have met his match in Chuck Jones, though. In an interview with the Washington Post, the union guy brushed off the nonsense, as well as the threats he is now receiving from Trump supporters by saying “It is what it is. It don’t phase me.” Then he published an article in the paper titled “I’m the union leader Donald Trump attacked. I’m tired of being lied to about our jobs.” Jones provides some interesting background on the situation at Carrier.

  44. 44.

    wvng

    On Maddow last night Rachel interviewed a Times reporter about Trump’s massive and real conflicts of interest, where money is actually and overtly flowing to enrich him in order to gain favor. The reporter stated that she also reported on Hillary’s potential conflicts of interest through the Clinton Foundation which she said were exactly the same thing. I think she even used the word “exactly” and then went on to say that the Clinton Foundation does do some charitable work so it is a bit different that way. I was aghast, and surprised that Rachel didn’t call her out on that. But it was the problem in a nutshell – even now, that reporter couldn’t distinguish between Trump and Hillary, she needed to balance them out..

  45. 45.

    Chris

    @hovercraft:

    Incoming national security adviser Michael Flynn said in August that “radical Islamist countries” had worked out a deal with drug cartels on the U.S.-Mexican border in order to provide “lanes of entry” past border security.

    Yes, I remember that Tom Clancy novel as well.

    “I know from my friends in the Border Patrol, in CBP, that there are countries–radical Islamist countries, state-sponsored–that are cutting deals with Mexican drug cartels for some of what they call the ‘lanes of entry’ into our country,” Flynn said. “And I have personally seen the photos of the signage along those paths that are in Arabic. They’re like way points along that path as you come in. Primarily, in this case the one that I saw was in Texas and it’s literally, it’s like signs, that say, in Arabic, ‘this way, move to this point.’ It’s unbelievable.”

    You’ve got to be kidding.

    1) Sure, it’s possible that Middle Eastern jihadist networks and Mexican drug cartels are collaborating, but what the fuck would the border patrol know about the higher geopolitics of the international underworld? They don’t do deep cover investigations into this stuff. How would they know unless they’d actually caught a jihadist, in which case the news would’ve been plastered all over CNN for months?

    2) Seriously? Jihadist networks operate by leaving breadcrumb signs in Arabic? How the fuck does this even work Why would you need signs in Arabic if you’ve got the local Mexican coyotes guiding you through the landscape, which is the whole point of that allegation? Why the fuck would they be announcing their presence by leaving signs in Arabic all over the place? When have you ever heard of an illegal pipeline being guided by fucking road signs like an interstate highway?

    We are so fucked.

  48. 48.

    germy

    The Obama administration will conclude with one more government shutdown threat, but this time the players have changed. Senate Democrats say they may shut down the government this weekend if they can’t secure a better deal to extend health benefits for retired coal miners — and they’re appealing to Donald Trump for support.

    On Thursday, a bill to keep the government funded through April 28 passed overwhelmingly in the House, but Democratic senators Joe Manchin of West Virginia and Sherrod Brown of Ohio (who are up for reelection in 2018 in states won by Trump) are rallying their caucus to miss the Friday midnight deadline to pass the legislation. Their aim is to secure another year of health benefits for the miners, rather than the four months included in the bill, by reopening negotiations with Republicans.

  49. 49.

    Timurid

    I’m proposing a new reasoning tool:

    Spayd’s Razor: When a person enables white supremacy, the logical assumption is that the actor is a white supremacist.

  51. 51.

    T S

    @rikyrah: To be fair, the evening MSNBC shows, including Hayes, have done a better job than the NY Times and other outlets at cutting through both sides, plus they have critically called out the claim that Ds have to refocus on WWC and leave “identity politics” aside as absurd. Now, maybe the Sanders town hall will be garbage, but there are a ton of people ahead of Hayes in line that need to receive invective-filled criticisms first. But…invectives aren’t a limited resource, especially with me, so I guess they can be freely distributed as each of us see fit.

  53. 53.

    germy

    Senator John McCain said the Armed Services Committee, which he chairs, will launch an investigation in the next congressional session into Russia’s ability to launch cyberattacks against U.S. military and weapons systems. He said he’ll be “working closely” with Select Intelligence Committee Chair Richard Burr, and he expects the probe to also look at Russia’s suspected theft of Democratic National Committee emails and hack of state-based election systems.

    Senator Lindsey Graham said he wants to hold hearings on Russia’s “misadventures throughout the world” as well, since, “They’ll keep doing more here until they pay a price.”

    “I’m going after Russia in every way you can go after Russia. I think they’re one of the most destabilizing influences on the world stage. I think they did interfere with our elections and I want Putin personally to pay the price,” Graham told CNN this week.

  54. 54.

    Chris

    @germy:

    Have you read this one?

    many of the problems that sunk the Soviet Union are now endangering the United States as well. Such as a huge, well-equipped, very expensive military, with no clear mission, bogged down in fighting Muslim insurgents. Such as energy shortfalls linked to peaking oil production. Such as a persistently unfavorable trade balance, resulting in runaway foreign debt. Add to that a delusional self-image, an inflexible ideology, and an unresponsive political system.

  55. 55.

    germy

    @Chris:

    a delusional self-image, an inflexible ideology, and an unresponsive political system

    That’ll be engraved on our tombstone.

  58. 58.

    Corner Stone

    @Betty Cracker: I honestly don’t get how a reasonable person can’t draw the lines from business interests to conflicted interests in one stroke here. It’s not a conspiracy theory to say that companies want to make money. Who has a bigger megaphone than POTUS? Just like we are already seeing it normalized that “of course the RNC and Heritage are having galas at Trump’s DC hotel! If they didn’t, someone else would!”. It is now going to be normalized that major companies interested in currying favor with Trump will be racing to pony up ad dollars on any commercial for-profit TV show or media vehicle Trump is tied to.
    Not to mention the conflicts, this just further cheapens the Office of the President itself as an institution. It’s so fucking gross to say you’re going to be POTUS, still have a stake in your organization AND have a side-job. And play golf and spend time in NYC and all the other leisure time.

  60. 60.

    Corner Stone

    And where is this going to end? He’s going to keep his business, be a producer on a commercial Reality TV show, and most likely develop his own media vehicle or network. While in office!
    The United States of Kleptocracy

  61. 61.

    Adam L Silverman

    @HRA: Contact the appropriate local party officials and report it. You may also want to contact LS, since you know him, and indicate someone is impersonating him. That’s Identity Theft.

  62. 62.

    hovercraft

    I smell a top candidate for the civil right division of the Justice Department.

    Florida to appeal death-penalty ruling to U.S. Supreme Court

    TALLAHASSEE —

    The state plans to ask the U.S. Supreme Court to revisit a landmark case in which justices struck down as unconstitutional Florida’s death-penalty sentencing procedure because it gave too much power to judges, instead of juries.

    Attorney General Pam Bondi’s lawyers will appeal a ruling by the Florida Supreme Court in the case of Timothy Lee Hurst, according to a motion asking a judge to put on hold a resentencing hearing for Hurst. That resentencing hearing was ordered by the Florida Supreme Court in October.

    The state is objecting to the Florida court’s interpretation of the U.S. Supreme Court’s landmark decision in January in the Hurst case, according to the document filed Friday in Escambia County.

    The U.S. Supreme Court’s decision in Hurst’s case found that Florida’s system of allowing judges, instead of juries, to find the facts necessary to impose the death penalty was an unconstitutional violation of the Sixth Amendment right to trial by jury. The court sent Hurst’s case back to the Florida high court.

    At the time of the January ruling, Florida’s system allowed jurors by a simple majority to recommend the death penalty. Judges would then make findings of fact that “sufficient” aggravating factors, not outweighed by mitigating circumstances, existed for the death sentence to be imposed, a process known as “weighing.”

    Florida lawmakers hurriedly rewrote the law this spring, requiring jurors to unanimously find that at least one aggravating factor exists before a defendant can be eligible for a death sentence and requiring at least 10 jurors to recommend death for the sentence to be imposed.

    The new law, approved by Gov. Rick Scott, also required juries to weigh whether sufficient mitigating factors exist to outweigh the aggravating circumstances, but the law is silent about whether those decisions must be unanimous.

    In October, the Florida Supreme Court ruled that the new statute was unconstitutional because it did not require unanimous jury recommendations about imposing the death penalty, something not addressed by the U.S. court decision.

    The Florida court, in a 5-2 ruling, decided that the lack of unanimity in the state law runs afoul of protections guaranteed by the U.S. and state constitutions.

    The majority also found that the U.S. Supreme Court decision in Hurst mandated that all findings necessary for imposition of a death sentence are “elements” that must be decided by a jury, and Florida “has a longstanding history of requiring unanimous jury verdicts as the elements of a crime,” the majority wrote.

    But the state disagrees.

    The Florida court interpreted the U.S. court’s earlier ruling in Hurst “to require jury findings of all aggravating circumstances; mitigating circumstances; and weighing rather than only requiring jury findings of one aggravating circumstance,” Senior Assistant Attorney General Charmaine Millsaps and Assistant Attorney General John Molchan wrote in the six-page request in Escambia County.

    “The state of Florida believes this expansive reading to be in error and will seek discretionary review in the United States Supreme Court,” the lawyers wrote.

    But defense lawyers said the state’s appeal is problematic because the Florida Supreme Court based its Hurst ruling in large part on the state’s constitutional guarantee to trial by jury.

    “They’re unhappy with the result, and they’re unhappy with all of these death sentences being reversed. But they’re running into a problem: what’s the federal issue and what’s the state issue. The U.S. Supreme Court doesn’t have jurisdiction to decide what the state statute meant. That’s a question of state law,” lawyer Martin McClain, who has represented more than 250 defendants in death penalty cases, said in a telephone interview Monday.

    In its Hurst ruling, the Florida Supreme Court concluded that “under the commandments of Hurst v. Florida, Florida’s constitutional right to trial by jury, and our Florida jurisprudence, the penalty phase jury must be unanimous in making the critical findings and recommendation that are necessary” before death can be imposed.

    “I believe the U.S. Supreme Court is unlikely to interfere with a state Supreme Court interpreting state law and that state’s Constitution,” said Pete Mills, a 10th Judicial Circuit assistant public defender who is chairman of the Florida Public Defenders Association’s Death Penalty Steering Committee.

    While the U.S. Supreme Court ruling in Hurst did not address unanimity, the state’s appeal of the Florida court’s decision could be an attempt to get a federal ruling on the issue.

    “I think they’re trying to get another bite at the apple,” said 5th Judicial Circuit Public Defender Mike Graves. “I don’t understand how they expect to get from here to there.”

  64. 64.

    Ridnik Chrome

    @HRA: The fact that the person said “Democrat Party” instead of “Democratic Party” is also a tip-off…

  65. 65.

    Cacti

    @Another Scott:

    In other news, history’s greatest monster gives federal employees higher-than-expected 2.1% pay raise for 2017

    Also gives what will likely be their last pay raise for at least 4-years.

  68. 68.

    TriassicSands

    Our story was a measured and balanced look at what is happening on college campuses in the wake of the election. We stand by it. — NY Times

    Of course the Times stands by their story. They are terrible when it comes to admitting “false equivalence.” Their current “Public Editor” Liz Spayd is possibly the worst Public Editor in Times history. But I may think that simply because she is the current Public Editor.

    However, the problem for me may be that my idea of what a Public Editor does (or should do) and Liz Spayd’s idea may be very different. I see the job as that of a kind of prosecutor. The PE looks at Times coverage (the evidence) and decides, first, whether to prosecute — i.e., does the Times coverage warrant close scrutiny and in what ways have they fallen short? After all, we don’t need a Times employee telling us how great the Times is, do we? Spayd seems to think she’s the defense attorney, hoping to get charges thrown out, and if not, then denying the Times has done anything wrong. Sometimes, she may need to admit some culpability, in order to plea bargain, but for the most part she comes to conclusions like this one (regarding Times campaign coverage of Trump:

    If you look at every ambitious piece the paper’s done this year, as I have, it deserves high marks.

    Every single one. And look what she’s done. She’s defined any pieces that don’t deserve high marks as probably not being “ambitious.” So, if there are any Times reports that don’t deserve “high marks”, those aren’t ambitious anyway, so it doesn’t really matter.

    Spayd:

    The Times wasn’t alone in investigating this subject, but it consistently delivered polished investigations that broke new ground.

    The praise couldn’t be more unquestioning. Spayd routinely rejects claims of “false equivalence,” if and when she addresses them.

    She really should resign or the Times should rename her position:
    NY Times Public Defense Advocate.

  71. 71.

    Cacti

    @Major Major Major Major:

    is it possible to cut their pay down to federal minimum wage? Asking for a friend.

    Anything’s possible, but it wouldn’t be easily accomplished. It would require changes to the law plus existing union contracts.

  75. 75.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Chris: Its a conflation of two things with a dollop of made up BS on top. Hezbullah has been in active in parts of South America for at least a decade. Based on open source reporting, its not always clear what they’re doing, but there does appear to be a connection between them and some of the cartels. Most likely its drug running into the Middle East and Central Asia to raise funds for Hezbullah’s operations in Lebanon and elsewhere. Because Hezbullah is a 12er Shi’a group, and its leadership accepts Iran’s Supreme Religious Authority as the Supreme Religious Authority for 12er Shi’a, and because Hezbullah often being used to do Iran’s dirty work, many simply conflate them with Iran. And many, like LTG Flynn has done in his book with Michael Ledeen, has conflated Iran and Hezbullah’s activity with those of al Qaeda and ISIL despite the fact that the former are Shi’a and the latter are radical muhaweedun Sunnis. The latter believe the former aren’t actually Muslim and are to be put to death wherever found. They don’t work together and they don’t collaborate. But for Flynn, Ledeen, and many others they are all the same and they are all working together and in collusion with the Chinese, the North Koreans, and the Russians against the US.

  76. 76.

    Mnemosyne

    @rikyrah:

    But Ed Snowden assured us that this election was a choice between Trump and Goldman Sachs.

    You know, from his comfortable Moscow apartment paid for by Comrade Putin. ?

    My only question now is whether Glenn Greenwald and his idiot pals got scammed, or if they were willing accomplices who are also taking money from Russia.

  77. 77.

    opiejeanne

    @Cacti: Heck, some of them will be gone in the next 6 months because of insufficient loyalty to the new cabinet’s ideal of reversing everything the EPA has done.

  79. 79.

    Timurid

    @Adam L Silverman:

    There are also many non-Latin American illegal immigrants who enter through Mexico for perfectly mundane economic reasons.
    If the mysterious Arabic signs exist, they might just mean there are coyotes out there moving a bunch of Arabs who are coming here for jobs, not jihad.

  84. 84.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Timurid: They don’t exist. The Border Patrol POC interviewed indicated they’d seen no evidence of this. It is simply the 2016 version of the 1990s “the colored stickers on the back of road signs are directions to the government jackbooted thugs of what to do when the government comes to round up the patriotic Americans”. The colored stickers are for replacement ordering purposes. And are actually the result of state Department of Transportations who administer even Federal highways and interstates within each state. So nothing at all to do with the US government.

  89. 89.

    rikyrah

    Quick Takes: Another Shoe to Drop on American Workers
    by Nancy LeTourneau
    December 8, 2016 5:03 PM
    POLITICAL ANIMAL BLOG

    There’s no denying that Trump demagogued the issue of trade during the election. But if you have any doubts about where all that is going, take a look at what Nick Timiraos noticed about his cabinet:

    President-elect Donald Trump railed against the Trans-Pacific Partnership on his way to winning the White House and has vowed immediately to withdraw the U.S. from the 12-nation accord.

    Several of his cabinet picks and other early nominees to top posts, however, have endorsed or spoken favorably about the trade pact, including Iowa Gov. Terry Branstad, announced Wednesday as Mr. Trump’s pick for ambassador to China, and retired Marine Gen. James Mattis, Mr. Trump’s pick to head the Department of Defense…

    Gen. Mattis joined 16 other retired military leaders and former defense secretaries in a May 2015 letter to congressional leaders that said TPP would help the U.S. maintain a geopolitical advantage in Asia…

    Another signatory to that letter: David Petraeus, the retired general who ran the Central Intelligence Agency and who has been considered by Mr. Trump for secretary of state. Former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney and former Utah Gov. Jon Huntsman Jr., also considered candidates for the secretary of state post, have supported the TPP…

    Wilbur Ross Jr., Mr. Trump’s nominee for Commerce secretary, has been extremely critical of the TPP in recent interviews, but he signed a letter in support of the agreement last year to the New York congressional delegation…

    Vice President-elect Mike Pence also supported the TPP as Indiana governor, but he said he changed his mind on the trade accord, and other multilateral deals, after he discussed the issue with Mr. Trump this past July.

    I have no illusions that TPP will survive. All the talk from Trump folks these days is about negotiating bilateral trade agreements. But just as the president-elect promised in a debate with Clinton, it is a sure bet that he’ll put his corporate friends in charge of those negotiations. And I’d be willing to bet a lot of money that they turn out to be worse than TPP when it comes to their impact on American workers.

  93. 93.

    Miss Bianca

    @rikyrah: “White dudebros discover that what Wisconsin Democrats need to succeed is more focus on what white dudebros think is important!”

    Film at 11. If we’re lucky.

  94. 94.

    Chris

    @Adam L Silverman:

    I did know about Hezbollah in South America, yes. (Helped along by the sizable expat community there). I actually remember reading something about ten years ago about this and other Hezbollah connections that speculated that Hezbollah’s global connections might actually be better than al-Qaeda’s, but that they were less likely to use it to fly planes into buildings or that stuff.

    And the whole idea doesn’t even strike me as impossible. But the way they’re telling it, with the supporting “evidence” they’ve got? Yeah. Bullshit.

  96. 96.

    Miss Bianca

    @Chris: you know, back in my radical student days, during the heyday of Ronald Reagan, who I honestly figured was about as bad as a conservative could get, I used to wish that this country would go thru’ some major humbling on the world stage.

    Guess this is a textbook example of the adage, “be careful what you wish for…”

  97. 97.

    Aleta

    Our story was a measured and balanced look

    Disgusting and not true in the least. For balance, they might have bothered to read this long list of some of the (only news-reported) incidents at universities since the election (at Chronicles of Higher Education, with links to each news report) or the similar SPLC lists.

    What bothers me is that this article is part of the attack that’s become more organized since the election against teachers and schools that (I’m paraphrasing) ‘force students conform to liberal views,’ a definition that includes science and history of course. (Eric Loomis already wrote about being on an internet list of targeted professors, which I believe includes photos and addresses.)

    This will be used to further defund public schools, state universities and federal grants for education and research, and deliver that bucket of money to private companies, of course.

  98. 98.

    RaflW

    The NYT needs to be reminded, frequently!, that what they are doing now is very much, painfully and horrifyingly similar to how they failed their readers and the whole country in the run up to the Iraq war.

    They don’t want to hear it, but the failure is of the very same culture and nature. And the risks are as great or greater.

    It’s a nightmare. The Baquet interview on Fresh Air did not inspire any confidence that they are in any way willing to listen even to their loyal, paying readers. Which pisses me off. As soon as I can convince the BF that the WaPo is a good replacement, we’ll be done with the damn Times.

  101. 101.

    NR

    @Miss Bianca: You know, with the utter and abject failure of Wisconsin Democrats (and Democrats in many, many other states) recently, you’d think maybe they’d be willing to listen to people with ideas abot how they can succeed. Even if they are “white dudebros.”

  102. 102.

    Miss Bianca

    @Chris: IKR? It’s like that Far Side cartoon where this woman bursts in on a guy in a little room filled with phones all labelled “They” and says something like, “Harold Liebowitz! So you’re the ‘They’ in “that’s what they say!””

  103. 103.

    Miss Bianca

    @NR: Oh, Lord, it’s you again. Must you stay? Can’t you go? Don’t you have important work to do somewhere in…oh, say…Wisconsin?

  104. 104.

    Central Planning

    @dedc79:

    the press is hesitant to label anyone who doesn’t wear a white robe or a swastika tattoo a racist.

    I’m not sure that would even do it. I’m not even sure the MSM would call anyone a racist who said, on tape, to the MSM: “I’m a racist” :(

  107. 107.

    Miss Bianca

    @opiejeanne: Not the Democratic parties. He’s a real drag there.

    @Major Major Major Major: See, there is actual work to be done in Wisconsin…as Kay and rikyrah have pointed out. Getting legislature-approved IDs into the hands of people who need them to vote. But *that* sort of action doesn’t depend on assuaging the fee-fees of Trump voters, so of course NimRod would see no use in it.

  110. 110.

    NR

    @Miss Bianca: Yeah, people who want the Democratic party to succeed again are a terrible drag. I wish I could be cool and “hip” like the people who want to keep repeating the same failed strategies over and over and over again.

  111. 111.

    Miss Bianca

    @NR: Wow, helping people get voter IDs is a failed strategy that’s been tried over and over again?

    Unlike trying to persuade racist white “Reagan Democrats” to become *real* Democrats. Like the Blue Fairy waving her wand over Pinocchio to make him a “real boy”? Because God knows, *that* strategy has never been tried before. Oh, wait…

  114. 114.

    Major Major Major Major

    @Miss Bianca: Quiet, you. Clearly we must be more pro-rust-belt-manufacturing than Obama, who was only the most pro-manufacturing president since Eisenhower. No more talking about icky things like lady parts and skin color. These things are apparently mutually exclusive. Our devastating negative-three-million vote loss at the ballot box proves this.

    It really is shocking how it turns out that the election was about [insert my pet issue] all along, though.

  116. 116.

    Mnemosyne

    @NR:

    Yes, it’s so weird that after unprecedented Russian interference in the election has been documented, we would start to look at the person who brought a bunch of our secrets to Russia and wonder if maybe, possibly the two things might be related. And then we would start to look at the people who defended and championed that person who stole secrets from the US and brought them to the Russians.

    But you just keep on believing that Snowden and Greenwald are on our side, despite that whole stealing US secrets and running off to Russia with them thing. Just another co-inkydink that just happens to tie directly back to Russia. Funny how many of those strange, unexplained connections to Russia there are in this election. But I’m sure it’s nothing to worry about, eh, comrade?

  119. 119.

    Mnemosyne

    @NR:

    Do you ever read your own links?

    “I hear repeatedly from our election workers that once the process is explained, and voters become aware that their ballots will not be counted on Election Day, most voters leave,” Albrecht said. “For anyone to allege that these numbers in any way represent the (full) impact of photo ID on voting in the city of Milwaukee or in the state of Wisconsin would be an inaccuracy.”

  121. 121.

    sukabi

    @hovercraft: well, we can hope that he’ll order drone strikes on the bats in his belfry.

    Btw, what EXACTLY do they serve at those Russian dinners? Lobster with a side of lobotomy?

  123. 123.

    NR

    @Mnemosyne: How many is “most” voters? Where is the data?

    We have one data point: the 717 provisional ballots. If you want to claim that more voters than that were blocked from voting, show data to support that. You don’t get to say “it was more people because I say it was more people.”

  125. 125.

    mr_gravity

    @Corner Stone: twenty five years ago I took an elective college course called something like “Trends In Social Geography”. We watched a film (yes, on film) about a future when nation-states would be superseded by corporate states. It stuck with me in part because I was totally into the whole Orwell/Pink Floyd vision of a dystopian future. I wish I could remember if it was the professor or the narrator who suggested that the transition could happen in twenty years time.

    And here we are twenty five years later in the United States of Goldman Sachs as Donald Trump takes the oath of office.

    Shiver.

  128. 128.

    Mnemosyne

    @NR:

    Let’s see:

    Trump’s campaign manager worked for Putin.

    Bernie’s campaign manager worked for Putin.

    Trump owes a lot of money to Russian bankers and oligarchs.

    Michael Flynn works for Russia Today, a Russian government propaganda outlet.

    Jill Stein traveled to Russia to speak at a Russia Today even and meet with Putin even though the Green Party of Russia begged her not to.

    Rudy Giuliani has been paid for consulting work with Russia and is friendly with Putin.

    Ed Snowden brought top secret information about the US to Russia and has lived there ever since.

    All just a series of strange but totally unconnected and unrelated coincidences, right?

  130. 130.

    Miss Bianca

    @Omnes Omnibus: Don’t worry, O2 – greatly doubt it would ever go where it might do some actual good for Democrats, as opposed to, you know, hanging out here and scolding all of us for being so meaaannn and out-of-touch with Trump voters’ precious, precious feelings and concerns.

    Now, me, on the other hand – didn’t someone say there was going to be a BJ effort on behalf of getting people IDs?

  131. 131.

    NR

    @Mnemosyne: Okay, you’ve totally convinced me. All your problems are the result of a giant Russian conspiracy. Except for when you say they’re because of racists, of course. Oh, and except when you say they’re because of Bernie Sanders. Oh, and except for when you say they’re because of stupid liberals.

    Boy, it must be hard trying to keep track of all the different people who are responsible for what’s wrong in your life, huh? Good thing you aren’t at all to blame for your problems, at least.

  135. 135.

    NR

    @Major Major Major Major: Yeah, it makes total sense that Bernie Sanders is a Russian plant because his campaign manager worked in the Ukraine seven years ago. How can the sheeple not see that they’re being played?!??!?!?!111one?

  139. 139.

    Corner Stone

    I feel like The Greatest American Hero now when he flies through a wall into the 6th Dimension.

  140. 140.

    NR

    @Shomi: Wait a second. I’ve got it. Since no one did more to get Donald Trump elected than Hillary Clinton, that means….

    Oh my god! HILLARY IS A RUSSIAN PLANT! SHE WORKS FOR PUTIN! WAKE UP, SHEEPLE! RUSSIANS! RUSSIANS EVERYWHERE!!!!

  141. 141.

    RaflW

    @Mnemosyne: “For anyone to allege that these numbers in any way represent the (full) impact of photo ID on voting in the city of Milwaukee or in the state of Wisconsin would be an inaccuracy make that person a total idiot.”

    FTFNR.

    Pretending that only 717 people were impacted by WI’s I.D. law is beyond blind ignorance and constitutes willful trolling and total stupidity. Which des appear to be NR’s cross to bear.

  142. 142.

    Miss Bianca

    @NR: “Much laughter was heard at this little remark of mine. However, I noticed I was the only one laughing.”

    Robert Benchley sure had you pegged, NimRod.

  144. 144.

    NR

    @RaflW:

    Pretending that only 717 people were impacted by WI’s I.D. law is beyond blind ignorance and constitutes willful trolling and total stupidity.

    Where’s the data that says it was more? Because to blindly assert something without anything to back it up and expect people to accept it at face value is the mark of a total idiot. Just saying.

  146. 146.

    Shomi

    @NR:
    I wonder what kind of person goes on a blog where everyone hates their guts? A really pathetic POS apparently.

  147. 147.

    J R in WV

    Adam, I’m thinking General Flynn (ret.) thinks the Arabic illegals sneaking across the southern border need signs in Arabic, because he can’t learn Arabic, and thinks the Arabs can’t learn English.

    Just a wild guess, but Arabic does go backwards from Engl…er, I mean American. Or is that changed yet?

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