Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

“The defense has a certain level of trust in defendant that the government does not.”

Consistently wrong since 2002

I wonder if trump will be tried as an adult.

Come on, media. you have one job. start doing it.

Our job is not to persuade republicans but to defeat them.

In after Baud. Damn.

Schmidt just says fuck it, opens a tea shop.

Thanks to your bullshit, we are now under siege.

And so it is for the politically and morally bankrupt Kevin McCarthy.

Republicans got rid McCarthy. Democrats chose not to save him.

I see no possible difficulties whatsoever with this fool-proof plan.

A lot of Dems talk about what the media tells them to talk about. Not helpful.

“What are Republicans afraid of?” Everything.

… pundit janitors mopping up after the GOP

Stamping your little feets and demanding that they see how important you are? Not working anymore.

Their boy Ron is an empty plastic cup that will never know pudding.

If senate republicans had any shame, they’d die of it.

The fundamental promise of conservatism all over the world is a return to an idealized past that never existed.

Israel, don’t be dumb like we were in the US after 9/11!

We’ll be taking my thoughts and prayers to the ballot box.

I really should read my own blog.

Seems like a complicated subject, have you tried yelling at it?

It’s always darkest before the other shoe drops.

Following reporting rules is only for the little people, apparently.

You are here: Home / Organizing & Resistance / Don't Mourn, Organize / Saturday Morning Open Thread: All Americans, Not Trump Voters

Saturday Morning Open Thread: All Americans, Not Trump Voters

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I endorse this whole thread:

Apart from remembering the Trump Crime Cartel is NOT a majority, what’s on the agenda for the weekend?

Reader Interactions

122Comments

  3. 3.

    Juice Box

    @rikyrah: You would be a majority, but apparently the votes of 12% of the country don’t really count because we all live in the same state. At least, that’s what I’ve been able to eke out of “it’s not a democracy, it’s a republic.”

  5. 5.

    OzarkHillbilly

    Enduring the cold, and another sleepless night. My fault for forgetting to take my meds last night. Gonna pick up the first timbers for the greenhouse sill plates this morn, got more than a little leveling up of the slope to do. The ground should be thawed enuf to get started by Monday.

  6. 6.

    Zinsky

    Donald Trump is a stupid, stupid, stupid man. Let me put it another way – he is NOT smart. In this complex, highly interdependent world, we can’t afford to have this ignorant cretin in the White House.

  7. 7.

    burnspbesq

    @Terry Buckalew:

    I find myself not terribly interested in this story, because it doesn’t lead anywhere. Assume the worst: assume that there is overwhelming and incontrovertible evidence that Putin personally ordered the Russian intelligence community to do whatever it could to throw the election to Trump. Now what? What remedies are available?

  10. 10.

    Terry Buckalew

    I guess I’m not too bored by the news. I don’t have a remedy, I’m just a guy on the intertubez. I do know it’s one of the biggest political stories in US history, something that makes Watergate seem minor in comparison.

  11. 11.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @raven: Nah, blood pressure, blood thinner, and melatonin, which usually works to help me fall back to sleep when I wake up (I always wake up multiple times per night). I just now took my am meds and guess what? I took my meds last night after all. The melatonin just didn’t work this time. It happens.

  13. 13.

    mai naem mobile

    @burnspbesq: it isn’t just that he threw it to Trump,it’s that they hacked both sides and are holding onto the GOP stuff and are holding it for leverage over Trump and the GOP. Also, the Russians like leaving child port in their hacking victims’ computers.

  14. 14.

    Baud

    @burnspbesq: Not everything leads to a direct remedy. Sometimes you pursue these things to affect the playing field on which other battles play out. And sometimes you do it because it’s the right thing to do.

  16. 16.

    Mike in dc

    Trump is not immune from prosecution until he’s actually sworn in. Now, there would have to be direct evidence of a crime, or conspiracy to commit a crime. But in theory he and Pence could be arrested and charged before 1/20/2017. That would lead to a civil war of some sort, most likely.

  17. 17.

    satby

    @rikyrah: @Baud: Good morning guys! rikyrah, can you email me at my site? Don’t see a basket order from anyone in Chicago.

    @OzarkHillbilly: smooch!
    And howdy raven!

    Still digesting the overnight news. I wish it would make a difference. We’re not only in a new cyber cold war, we’re in a low level civil war too.

  18. 18.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @raven: Good to hear. Short of opiates the only pain med I can take is acetaminophen and I am still somewhat fond of my liver.

  19. 19.

    Morzer

    If the Democrats hang tough and play their cards right, we might just see Trump split the rotting carcass of the GOP into chunks of dead elephant by 2018. That means no more whining about the past, from either wing of the party. Focus on Donny Putinobitch and don’t let him off the hook for anything. No cooperation, no normalizing this worthless little traitor and his Russian mafia cabal. Hammer him 24/7 and watch as his popularity sinks past shithouse rats levels. A crucial part of the plan: make sure he’s tied to the GOP so hard that neither of them can wriggle free. The more Trump drags them down, the better for honest, patriotic Americans.

  20. 20.

    D58826

    @Terry Buckalew: Time for our ‘leaders’ to take a stand
    1. Will Mattis/Kelly refuse to serve in an administration that appears to have some many ties to Putin? Flynn is a nutcase and is a lap dog for Putin so he doesn’t count.
    2. Will a small number of Senators (McCain, Hatch, Graham, Flake, Collins) break ranks and do the right thing and give operational control of the Senate to the democrats to block the worst of Trump’s actions
    3. Will the EC act in the way that the founders intended and act as a bulwark against tyranny. In this case voting for the winner of the populkar vote and the obviously qualified candidate – Hillary. After all 54% ofthe electorate voted for someone other than Trump.

  21. 21.

    Baud

    @D58826: I can’t imagine GOP electors giving it to Hillary. I thought the play was to give it to some other relatively sane Republican.

  22. 22.

    raven

    @OzarkHillbilly: Yea the opioids wire the shit out of me. They did the trick a few days post-hernia but I got off em pretty quick.

    After googling around I’m going to try the jute rope in the floor splits. I was dealing one out and there was actually some really old rope in the joint. I’m soaking some in stain right now. I figure nothing really bad can happen.

  23. 23.

    Schlemazel

    Given that Trumps cabinet is a GOP wet dream of government destroying racist assholes combined with the GOP propensity to march to the masters tune his favorability rating with the masses is inconsequential. He, and many key cabinet members, will be allowed to loot the treasury while they gut the Federal government. My guess is Trump with more legislation passed than any of those 3 more popular Presidents. The people may howl and we may write angry letter and call our representatives and even protest (assuming Trump does not hoard all the permits everywhere) but the GOP will not care because they know this is their very best chance to complete the Reagan revolution.

    REagan’s budget director, David Stockman, laid out the goal of the Reagan revolution after he was fired from the administration. Their goal was to destroy the Federal government, to cripple it under a mountain of debt, gut all regulations and emasculate its enforcement power. They stand on the precipice of their great victory and unpopularity is not going to stop them.

  24. 24.

    Van Buren

    I can relax knowing that in 4 or maybe 8 years time, we won’t be having the national trauma of any trials because of the need to put it all behind us.
    Plus, we’ll be too busy recreating civilization.

  30. 30.

    D58826

    @Baud: It is but ‘sane’ republican is still a relative term. And the ‘sane’ republican, whom ever that may be, was nolt vetted by the electoral process. As I said, it’s time for our leaders, esp the GOP one, to lead. In this case country over party. I don’t expect any of the three items to happen but one can hope.

    How supposed ‘patriots’ like Mattis/Kelly can serve this guy after what the CIA has concluded is beyond me. The transition team has already thrown the CIA and the rest of the IC under the bus to absolve Putin of wrong doing.

    I know we kicked this around right after the election but given the close and surprising results in PA,WI, and MI, I just wonder if the Russians did hack into a few selected election computers and ‘adjust the results in Trump’s favor. In Malcolm Nance’s book .The Plot to Hack America’ he said the KGB is perfectly capable of hacking a target and leaving no fingerprints.

  31. 31.

    p.a.

    A good base of resistance, but don’t forget Göring’s quote. W was on his way to being a 1 term pres. The loons have a ready-made roster of bogie men. They just need an attack anywhere, here, abroad, on the moon, to put those feelings in motion. Abetted by our supine media.

  32. 32.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    @satby: The set was still active back then, they’ve torn pretty much everything down now. But they do have some stuff still there, I’ve not been back.

  34. 34.

    Botsplainer

    Some of the more lawyerly among us lawyers still have this charming notion of some remaining reliance on institutions, as if “laws” and “courts” will have the power or the inclination to save us.

    I’m not one of those lawyers.

    It’s broke – this is how it feels to be a weakened client state nonetheless under ethnic-based authoritarian rule. Putin will dictate external diplomatic and trade relationships with no real input into internal politics (save to the extent it supports the external relationships of the regime). internally, we’ll maintain some of the older forms in terms of appearance, but dissent will be oppressed through restrictions, violence, extortion and surveillance. In that climate, only two things will bring about political change. In the first instance, that will be gross, manifest incompetence that can’t be denied (failed disaster response or a military overreach and adventure gone totally wrong). The second would be a revolt – either regional or total. Each involves a lot of blood, although the first is a shorter course, as security elements would stand down for or join the protests.

    The one shining light in this is that the standing military – people actually in an infantry-type role and under arms – is way down as a percentage of population.

    I can’t even describe what I feel about McConnell and that Gang of 12 meeting.

  36. 36.

    Baud

    @Botsplainer:

    The one shining light in this is that the standing military – people actually in an infantry-type role and under arms – is way down as a percentage of population.

    And I learned that most of them are Hillary voters.

  38. 38.

    Raven

    @Botsplainer:

    The one shining light in this is that the standing military – people actually in an infantry-type role and under arms – is way down as a percentage of population.

    Maybe so but their firepower is way up.

  41. 41.

    Schlemazel

    @Baud:
    I hope you are right but I believe there are more tru belifers today that 10 years ago and they view this as their big chance

  42. 42.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @Raven: A way back when men were men and ships still sailed I caulked an old wooden boat with jute. I’d had fun before but that weren’t it.

  43. 43.

    Botsplainer

    I will make the unshocking prediction that the oafcreepers and 3%ers will be backing the regime. So in any civil conflict, expect some participation from wheezing fat camo clad sweatballs and some people on camo painted fatty scooters. You’ll achieve comic confusion by aiming for the Big Gulps as they lift them to their lips….

  49. 49.

    Poopyman

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    A way back when men were men and ships still sailed I caulked an old wooden boat with jute.

    I know a guy that did most of the caulking on a 125′ ship (built ca 1915) and it pretty much destroyed his mallet shoulder.

    Just sayin’. Stay away from caulking from now on.

  52. 52.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @Poopyman: That was back in the 70’s when I was on my Great Canadian Odyssey. My hands were killing me from stuffing that shit in the cracks. Years later I had the bright idea of becoming a carpenter and guess what happened?

  54. 54.

    Poopyman

    @OzarkHillbilly: I think we can all guess, even if we only had the pharmacological info above to go on. Which isn’t really news to most of us.

    We’re living in interesting times, folks! My own suspicion is that Obama’s announcement yesterday was just the start of prepping the country for what they already know, and the “leaks” may be unauthorized, but maybe not. I’m prone to agree with Obama if he’s calculated that a large portion of the country can’t handle the truth (h/t Jack Nicholson), but I’m thinking that there’s a greater possibility that Trump will never set foot in the White House as more info comes out.

    And if I were Vlad I’d take the stairs and skip the computer-controlled elevator in the Kremlin.

  57. 57.

    D58826

    I read an article on the internet the other day about an exiled Russian dissident in trouble with the British police for having kiddie porn on his computer. He claims it was an old KGB tactic.

    When the story about Hillary’s e-mails being on Weiner’s computer broke, his Huma coulkd not explain how they got there. Maybe be with a bit of help from the KGB?

  59. 59.

    Immanentize

    @Botsplainer: I am still a lawyer that is thinking rule of law responses are extremely valuable. Like everything, they will either work or they won’t. But giving up in that effort and saying legal responses are already useless is tantamount to welcoming the end of law. Which is the same as supporting Trump.

    As David Cole wrote, this entire (legal) system is built to be creaky and slow in order to prevent rule of law disasters. I for one will be using all my skills to make every argument I can to muck up the pace of decline and ruin. If only for three reasons: 1) we might win some which will be critically valuable 2) to buy time preserving what we have for as long as possible and 3) to witness; to stand in public and say “no.”

    And, despite your comment, I expect you will be doing exactly the same. Because lawyers serve the public good.

  62. 62.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @MomSense: As a caver I have more than a little experience with sinkholes. I even almost got eaten by one. However I don’t foresee Trump ever getting close to one and they are notoriously immobile.

    How’s about ebola?

  63. 63.

    What Have the Romans Ever Done for Us?

    The Russians probably got that kiddie porn they’re planting on Democrats’ computers from the hack of the RNC et al. That’s my conspiracy theory. It’s not all that implausible.

  65. 65.

    Poopyman

    If something were to happen to Vlad, how smooth do you think the transition of power would be? I’m thinking he had a lot concentrated at the top, and I can’t think of anyone who was clearly and unequivocally second in line.

  66. 66.

    Morzer

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    The best chance is that Trump is as inept as a president as he was in business, assisted by that vicious moron Pence and the fascist thug Bannon. I think you’ll see all sorts of faction fights within the Grotesque Old Putinist party and I don’t think they’ll be able to keep the show on the road for too long. Admittedly, that might involve a national bankruptcy style event, if Trump is true to form in financial matters as well.

  67. 67.

    SFAW

    @D58826:

    2. Will a small number of Senators (McCain, Hatch, Graham, Flake, Collins) break ranks and do the right thing and give operational control of the Senate to the democrats to block the worst of Trump’s actions

    Because they’ve bucked their Party leadership so many times in the past?

    “Party Before Country” for them, as always. They will NEVER willingly give “operational control” to the Democrats.

    NEVER.

  69. 69.

    What Have the Romans Ever Done for Us?

    The media will treat Trump as though he has a mandate, because he’s a swaggering bully. There’s nothing the media likes better than a swaggering bully, even when (maybe especially when) that bully is bullying them. Never underestimate their ability to treat despicable behavior as political genius.

  71. 71.

    SFAW

    @Morzer:

    Admittedly, that might involve a national bankruptcy style event, if Trump is true to form in financial matters as well.

    After which, he’ll take another “victory tour.”

  74. 74.

    Baud

    @Immanentize: Liberals love to talk about fight until it comes time to actually engage in one. Maybe Trump will finally cure us of our persistent bipolar disorder.

    Although I’m still not fully watching the news, I’ve seen more resolve from our hated Democratic officeholders than even on this blog.

    I still haven’t decided if I’m going to ride off into the sunset myself, but if I do, I won’t be here spreading doom and gloom among those who have the strength to carry on.

  75. 75.

    Morzer

    @JPL:

    That depends on who speaks to him last and whether his gatekeepers share Ryan’s priorities. I am not so sure that Bannon is a member of the granny-starver chorus, since he seems to have ambitions to rule for a thousand years.

  76. 76.

    Kay

    Don’t forget the FBI role in this, and how the NYTimes got played by the FBI.

    October 31st:

    For much of the summer, the F.B.I. pursued a widening investigation into a Russian role in the American presidential campaign. Agents scrutinized advisers close to Donald J. Trump, looked for financial connections with Russian financial figures, searched for those involved in hacking the computers of Democrats, and even chased a lead — which they ultimately came to doubt — about a possible secret channel of email communication from the Trump Organization to a Russian bank.
    Law enforcement officials say that none of the investigations so far have found any conclusive or direct link between Mr. Trump and the Russian government. And even the hacking into Democratic emails, F.B.I. and intelligence officials now believe, was aimed at disrupting the presidential election rather than electing Mr. Trump.

    What a huge, sad, mess. Even after Iraq, the NYTimes fell for it again. They have to fire everyone and start over.

  79. 79.

    JPL

    Since the Russian hack, doesn’t have Hillary breaking the law, the story probably won’t last through the weekend.

  80. 80.

    Morzer

    @Kay:

    We assume that the NYT falls for things – perhaps we should start to consider whether they actually wanted the outcomes that they got?

  82. 82.

    Belafon

    @p.a.:

    A good base of resistance, but don’t forget Göring’s quote. W was on his way to being a 1 term pres. The loons have a ready-made roster of bogie men. They just need an attack anywhere, here, abroad, on the moon, to put those feelings in motion. Abetted by our supine media.

    Which is why we need to start pushing the idea that Trump is ignoring the daily intelligence briefings because he wants an attack on US soil.

  83. 83.

    MrSnrub

    I’m the volunteer coordinator for my son’s swim team, but my son is going to a bat mitzvah this morning, so I’m in the odd position of going to his meet without him.

  84. 84.

    Kay

    @Morzer:

    I don’t assume they fell for this one, really. That piece is weird. It has no facts, no specifics, doesn’t say what or who they investigated yet it’s a complete exoneration. It isn’t “news” in the traditional sense- it doesn’t even stand by itself.

    Remove the assertions that there was no connection between Trump and Russia and look for some supporting fact or detail- there are none. I thought it was weird at the time and now it reads like clumsy, bad propaganda- a rush job.

  85. 85.

    Immanentize

    @MomSense: That particular question is not in my knowledge range. And I don’t think there is anything to do about the vote except what was referred to above — certainly nothing in a litigation way which is my world.

    Really the only remedies for external interference are internal systems. But there may be some international courts and organizations (many private law business groups and arbitration consortiums) will have a say on company collusion and contract interference.

    But what I am most equipped to deal with are assaults on individual liberties here within the country. I think we lawyers need to be brushing up on international human rights standards rather than just relying on US due process concepts. Globalizing the fight in that regard will be very important. One of the reasons that Brown v Board of Education went the way it did is because the federal government (dept of state I think) filed a brief that outlined how the US was getting its ass kicked by Soviet propoganda about racial discrimination. Americans hate to be seen as evil.

    And, although I am in a minority here, I believe that Justice Roberts will not allow this all to go to hell in a hand basket. He knows he sits in a place exposed to history. However, forget Alito. Thomas at least went the right way on the confederate flag license plate case, so maybe all of them could rise to a threat.

  86. 86.

    Kay

    @MrSnrub:

    That’s funny :)

    I used to hate swim meets because they take so long. My daughter still swims for exercise though so it’s a good habit for them. After that horrible “two a day” thing they do in high school maybe “one a day” seems easy.

  88. 88.

    MomSense

    @Kay:

    I know I sounded like a crazy person back in September when I wondered if NYT had been hacked but now I don’t find that idea far fetched.

  91. 91.

    Mark B

    @Juice Box: The argument boils down to the feeling that people who live close together aren’t the ‘real Americans’ whatever that it. There’s also a lot of false narratives like ‘if we elected the President by popular vote, then the 3 biggest cities would decide the election’ when the 3 biggest cities only have about 5% of the total population in the US. If you go by metropolitan area, the three biggest are about 11% of the total population. Significant, but not dominating.

  93. 93.

    MomSense

    @Immanentize:

    I know that good lawyers will fight to save our rights but I’m not optimistic about our chances. If we overlook Russian interference and cyber attacks on our election I don’t see much hope for honoring other norms. Russia hasn’t lost her seat on the Security Council even with all of the journalist killings and other human rights abuses.

  94. 94.

    D58826

    @Baud: Yep. the D’s sold out the coal miners on their pension/health plan yesterday. So much for standing up to der Fuhrer next year.

    And according to Kellyanne Conway der Fuhrer isn’t being a hypocrite over the Goldman appointments. According to Kellyanne they won’t have any political influence over der Fuhrer. THEY ARE POLITICAL APPOINTEES!!!!!! At that level the difference between political and policy is about the size of a quark.

    And reading the comments on Twitter with regard to the CIA story the Trumpers still only want to talk about Benghazi and e-mails. They are not bothered in the least that Putin owns Trump. I remember the howling by the right in the 1992 election about Clinton having visited Moscow as a student. That seemed to indicate he was some kind of dupe of the Kremlin.

  95. 95.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @Baud:
    @Morzer:

    He who fights and runs away
    May live to fight another day;
    But he who is in battle slain
    Can never rise and fight again.

    — Oliver Goldsmith, 1761

  96. 96.

    Baud

    @D58826:

    the D’s sold out the coal miners on their pension/health plan yesterday.

    Metaphysically impossible. We owe them nothing.

  97. 97.

    Kay

    @MomSense:

    I see people on Twitter (John Weaver, who was Kasich’s campaign person) who are mad because they are saying that it’s not like this was secret in the sense of Trump having some kind of alliance or sympathy with Russia. Just Trump’s public statements were bizarre and Weaver (for one) was screaming about it for months.

    John Weaver ‏@JWGOP 12h12 hours ago
    Right. A goddam dereliction of duty across the board. From the President to Congress to the FBI, etc. As shameful as anything.

    John Weaver ‏@JWGOP 12h12 hours ago
    And if an elected Republican blocked Russian involvement from being shared with the American people that “leader” should be formally named

    He is SO getting thrown out of the Republican Party, although you could do worse than hitching your wagon to Kasich. I hate to admit it but Kasich is literally the only decent elected Republican in the country :)

    He’s not horribly corrupt and insane and he’s base-line competent.

  98. 98.

    Belafon

    @Mark B: I’m just going to counter-argue that any state that has a smaller population than the metropolitan area I live in, DFW, shouldn’t be allowed to decide the election.

  99. 99.

    debit

    @satby: I can’t believe I’ve never been to your shop. Several of my friends are going to find your stuff in their stockings this holiday. Unless I decide to keep it all. Which I might.

  102. 102.

    Mark B

    @Belafon: Makes sense to me.

    The pro-EC arguments seem to boil down to a rural paternalism. Those wise [white] rural folks are saving the urban animals from themselves, thanks the constitution giving them 3 times as many votes per person in the presidential elections.

    The original purpose of the EC was to preserve the influence of the slave states that had a relative small number of eligible voters, but a significant number of votes in the electoral college due to the 3/5ths rule.

  103. 103.

    Kay

    @MomSense:

    We’re reviving a Dem women’s group we had from 2002 to 2008 here. I want to wait until after the 1st of the year because I’m still trying to get a sense for myself about what happened. I don’t 100% buy any of the prevailing theories. It takes me a long time to figure things out but I’ve learned to let the big panic settle a bit and then go forward. I don’t want to run it – I ran it last time- but they contacted me and one of them has agreed to be in charge.

    It’s partly temperament but frantic, unfocused action doesn’t feel productive or comforting to me. It makes me feel worse.

  104. 104.

    Poopyman

    @Kay: You may have missed it, but last night there was a post?/comment? about a movement among the Colorado Dem electors to gather enough of the electoral college to deny Trump his 270, and if possible have the EC elect a different Republican.

    You guessed it – Kasich.

  105. 105.

    ThresherK (GPad)

    (Apologize if this is a repeat:) In the Professional Left Podcast, Driftglass gave this blog a shout-out for linking to him and getting lots comments here.

    He also said the number of comments here on that article greatly exceeded the number on his. But he was a nice fellow about it in a “OneOfUs, OneOfUs” manner.

  106. 106.

    Mark B

    @Poopyman: Kasich would be an improvement, but I doubt anyone could get 270 electors to go for him. There’s a microscopic chance that the election could be thrown into the House of Representatives, with an unpredictable outcome. I would guess that Trump would eventually emerge, but it would be an bloody struggle.

    If something like that happened, maybe we would finally look at the Electoral College and try to change it, Unfortunately, they would probably try to change it by trying to bind the electors instead of equalizing representation by population.

  107. 107.

    Kay

    @Poopyman:

    Kasich issued a public statement telling them not to do it. I’m not on board for any of the recount/electoral college stuff either. I have experience with the Green Party and election law and process in Ohio and it’s not good.

    Here’s what people have to understand about the Green Party. The Green Party adds members using what labor organizers call “slice and dice”- they peel off people who are Democrats. They cannot ever reach majority status in any election without a substantial portion of Dem voters. There’s nothing wrong with this but it is a fact. The Green Party see the Democratic Party as an opponent. The Green Party can’t beat the GOP without first beating the Democratic Party. They’re not like libertarians and Republicans- that’s an additive alliance- + +. Republicans PLUS Libertarians = libertarian-leaning Republican majority. Green Party subtract. They won’t be joining YOU. It only works one way with them.

  108. 108.

    Immanentize

    @Mark B: I think legally binding electors is unconstitutional, which is why parties who appoint their electors choose deeply partisan loyalists to serve.

  109. 109.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    @Juice Box:

    You would be a majority, but apparently the votes of 12% of the country don’t really count because we all live in the same state. At least, that’s what I’ve been able to eke out of “it’s not a democracy, it’s a republic.”

    Plus we do un-American things like have educations, are employed full time and don’t live off our parents social security like REAL Americans do.

  111. 111.

    D58826

    @Belafon: they were holding out for an extension of 1 year so the miners and their families could have some stability. GOP, the friend of the working man only wanted 4 months. Sure given how the WWC voted they probably don’t deserve any sympathy but right is right and promises were made. If the D’s won’t fight for what they believe is right then they are no better than the GOP.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/government-shutdown-coal-miners_us_584b2804e4b04c8e2baffd09

    In the meantime der Fuhrer is throwqing the CIA under the bus in favor of Russia

    The Trump camp has dismissed the report — along with the credibility of the U.S. intelligence community. “These are the same people that said Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction,” said a statement by the Trump transition team. “The election ended a long time ago in one of the biggest Electoral College victories in history. It’s time to move on and ‘Make America great again.’”

    Wonder where he will get his daily PDB from? The KGB perchance? http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/russia-hacking-trump-election_us_584b658ae4b04c8e2bb01356

  113. 113.

    D58826

    It doesn’t matter about Hillary’s e-mails
    It doesn’t matter what states she did/didn’t campaign in
    It doesn’t matter how flawed a candidate she may have been.
    It would not matter if Trump had lost every state

    What matters is:
    1. The Russians hacked into our election
    2. the GOP leadership knew about it in early Sept. but would not support a bipartisan response
    3. Comey knew about it in early Sept.
    4. Comey felt it was his sacred duty to tell the country about the Weiner e-mails
    5. Comey, while knowing about the Russian hack, chose to tell the public that there was nothing to investigate when it came to the Trump campaign.
    6. Trump and his transition continue to cover for Putin and attack any American institution that wants to investigate the hack.

    USA – born July 4th 1776
    died Nov. 8th 2016
    RIP

  114. 114.

    Belafon

    Back to the topic at the top. I can tell you that, in the red parts of Texas, it won’t be easy to keep up that line, but we can keep up something very close. A lot of middle class people voted for Trump without caring at all what he’s going to do, because they don’t think he’ll actually do a lot of it. Some are even counting on “checks and balances”. A lot of the people I work for are dependent on the US government to pay the company that pays their salary. A lot of them send kids to public schools. Not only do we have to keep strong in the face of his attempts at destroying the government, we have to let these people know what he’s up to. It’s not going to be easy, because they don’t want to hear a lot about it. But they will have to be involved.

    One of the things we may have to try to build on is the “checks and balances” rationale. When going after a congressman for reelection, challenge them on what they are doing to keep Trump from destroying everything, especially since so many will have to vote on things over the next two years.

  115. 115.

    schrodinger's cat

    @Baud:

    I still haven’t decided if I’m going to ride off into the sunset myself, but if I do, I won’t be here spreading doom and gloom among those who have the strength to carry on.

    Please don’t go, we need your wit and charm.

  116. 116.

    liberal

    @Belafon:

    When going after a congressman for reelection, challenge them on what they are doing to keep Trump from destroying everything, especially since so many will have to vote on things over the next two years.

    This is important, but IIRC the Democrats haven’t been sufficiently willing to “nationalize” Congressional elections in the past.

  117. 117.

    Brachiator

    @D58826:

    Trump and his transition continue to cover for Putin and attack any American institution that wants to investigate the hack.

    Find evidence of Trump or a member of his team or cabinet colluding with the Russians and it would be instant impeachment.

  119. 119.

    XTPD

    @liberal: Just a reminder that Stephen Cohen has long since outlived his usefulness.

    (And FWIW, I’m well aware that Russia has legit grievances with Western actions in her affairs, find Mearsheimer a mostly reasonable commentator (even though I disagree with some of his conclusions), and think any Western action regarding the Slavic state should be both far short of military action and respectful of the Russian state’s aims. That still doesn’t merit approval of or indifference to Putin’s actions in foreign or domestic policies – unless you think Andrew O’Hehir‘s a neocon shill).

  120. 120.

    J R in WV

    @Morzer:

    We assume that the NYT falls for things – perhaps we should start to consider whether they actually wanted the outcomes that they got?

    This. Either they actually are evil and stupid enough to want this outcome, or were blackmailed into it by Russian intervention.

  121. 121.

    Anonymous patient

    @Belafon:

    “Manchin’s going to be a hard one to deal with. ”

    Manchin is a tool, having been mobbed up since his youth, anyone who cares to and has the keys can grab hold, squeeze, and Hola! Looka there! he does what they need him to do.

  122. 122.

    J R in WV

    @Brachiator:

    I doubt this to an extreme. Except if the Rs decide they would be better off with Mike Dense as their puppet, after Trump denys them something they want.

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