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Insiders who complain to politico: please report to the white house office of shut the fuck up.

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Ron DeSantis, the grand wizard, oops, governor of FL

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You are here: Home / Economics / C.R.E.A.M. / Sunday Evening Open Thread: Never Stop Running All the Cons

Sunday Evening Open Thread: Never Stop Running All the Cons

by Anne Laurie|  December 11, 20167:35 pm| 88 Comments

This post is in: C.R.E.A.M., Hail to the Hairpiece, Open Threads, Republican Venality, Trump Crime Cartel

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Trump says he turned down seven big deals last week. Doesn't say with whom. Thinks we trust him to make this judgment. Sigh. https://t.co/XNEZsogeCe

— Jeff Jarvis (@jeffjarvis) December 11, 2016

Remarkable. The amount of somersaults Trump does here on why his keeping a stake in his business isn't a conflict of interest: pic.twitter.com/AjZSKyham1

— Sopan Deb (@SopanDeb) December 11, 2016

Biggest news in this exchange about conflicts of interest is Trump saying he was discussing business deals *last week* — as President-elect pic.twitter.com/t0gtGaDkMW

— Bradd Jaffy (@BraddJaffy) December 11, 2016

If Repubs weren’t a bunch of Quislings they’d be asking why he’s even entertaining offers! https://t.co/gfYGVjPHX2#NoTimeForIntelBriefings

— Dana Houle (@DanaHoule) December 11, 2016

Really beginning to think that Josh Marshall, at TPM, is right about Trump’s finances:

… Maybe he can’t divest because he’s too underwater to do so or more likely he’s too dependent on current and expanding cash flow to divest or even turn the reins over to someone else…

According to his spokesman, Trump sold all of his stock back in June, a portfolio which his disclosures suggest was worth as much as $38 million. Trump told Matt Lauer that he sold the stock because he was confident he’d win and “would have a tremendous … conflict of interest owning all of these different companies” while serving as President…

But consider this. During the primaries Donald Trump loaned his campaign roughly $50 million. Over the course of the spring, as it became increasingly likely he’d be the nominee, that loan became increasingly conspicuous. Donors were wary of donating big money because they didn’t want him to use it to pay himself back for that loan. Many suggested that he might not actually be able to part with that money. It became a big issue and Trump refused to forgive the loans.

It was only in June that Trump finally gave in and forgave the loan; this was confirmed in the June FEC disclosure that came out in late July… The most obvious explanation is that forgiving that debt from his campaign required him — through whatever mix of contingencies — to free up more cash, either for the campaign or personal expenses or perhaps to have a certain amount of cash on hand because of terms of other debts. It does not seem plausible at all that the timing is coincidental.

Perhaps Trump simply doesn’t feel like he can trust anyone else to keep the whole shambling enterprise afloat. More plausibly, and consistent with Trump’s history over the last couple decades, Trump’s business is dependent on an ever expanding number of deals not just to grow but to stay afloat at all. It is certainly plausible that if Trump simply sold off his company in toto, he’d be in debt. Maybe there wouldn’t be anything left to put in a blind trust…

As a number of business reporters have been pointing out, Trump’s a big fan of resource-dependent extractive industries. Perhaps he just considers himself a fellow extractive industrialist… with us marks as his all-too-renewable resource.

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Reader Interactions

88Comments

  1. 1.

    Yarrow

    December 11, 2016 at 7:46 pm

    NYT Editorial Board

    Mr. Trump should be leading the call for a thorough investigation, since it would be the only way to remove this darkening cloud from his presidency. Failing to resolve the questions about Russia would feed suspicion among millions of Americans that a dominant theme of his candidacy turned out to be true: The election was indeed rigged.

    Trump isn’t leading the call for a thorough investigation. Wonder why that is….

  2. 2.

    Baud

    December 11, 2016 at 7:48 pm

    @Yarrow: Heh. The cloud is on the other foot now, Mr. Trump.

  3. 3.

    debbie

    December 11, 2016 at 7:49 pm

    Forget about trusting his judgement, I don’t believe he’s telling the truth.

  4. 4.

    Elizabelle

    December 11, 2016 at 7:49 pm

    @Baud: Tee hee. Well said.

    I wish we could give the election to the candidate who won the popular vote.

    This feels like being on a train headed for a wreck, and almost everyone can see it, but no one is intervening. Because, rules.

  5. 5.

    maye

    December 11, 2016 at 7:50 pm

    Emoluments will get him in the end.

  6. 6.

    Mnemosyne

    December 11, 2016 at 7:51 pm

    I have come to dread cloudy days because they can trigger a migraine, like the one I have today. Ptui!

  7. 7.

    opiejeanne

    December 11, 2016 at 7:52 pm

    @Yarrow: This question is at the top of Joe Walsh’s playlist. He is truly stunned by this, incredulous.
    I’d point and laugh in any other situation.

    Ok, I did laugh at him.

  8. 8.

    Yarrow

    December 11, 2016 at 7:55 pm

    @opiejeanne: This whole situation is realigning people. It’s a clear case of patriotism. I’m glad some people can see it. I don’t care who that is at this point. We’re all in it together.

  9. 9.

    Yarrow

    December 11, 2016 at 7:57 pm

    In case this hasn’t been seen:

    Aleksandr Dugin, #Putin's éminence grise: "Washington is ours, Chisinau is ours, Sofia is ours. Now we just have to drain the swamp at home" pic.twitter.com/gcQPj40roK— Evan O'Connell (@evanoconnell) November 14, 2016

    If you click through there’s a screenshot of Dugin’s Facebook page. People who study Russian/Eastern European regimes verify it’s him. Dugin is not a good person.

  10. 10.

    Millard Filmore

    December 11, 2016 at 7:59 pm

    @maye:

    Emoluments will get him in the end.

    Who is not under Comrade Trump’s spell that could pursue this to the conclusioni?

  11. 11.

    Shantanu Saha

    December 11, 2016 at 7:59 pm

    The hallmark of a classic Ponzi scheme is that it requires an ever expanding slate of new rubes in order to pay off the old rubes enough to keep them from trying to pull out their money and send the entire scheme from crashing into the dust.

  12. 12.

    EBT

    December 11, 2016 at 8:00 pm

    Trump has the largest Pyramid scheme there is. Too big to fail even. He just shunts all the losses off on the losers and avoids jail himself by an army of lawyers (whom he then screws over by not paying).

  13. 13.

    SiubhanDuinne

    December 11, 2016 at 8:02 pm

    @debbie:

    Forget about trusting his judgement, I don’t believe he’s telling the truth.

    Forget about don’t believe he’s telling the truth, I’m pretty sure every word that comes out of his mouth is a blatant lie, including “an,” “the,” “and,” and “but.”
    It would be a lot easier for Politifact and similar to put up daily columns on what Trump said that was true, and assume that everything not mentioned was an outright LIE.

  14. 14.

    Mnemosyne

    December 11, 2016 at 8:02 pm

    @Yarrow:

    Yep. It’s a very clear question: “Do you want the USA to be controlled by Russia, yes or no?”

    Anyone who can’t make up their minds needs to go fuck themselves.

  15. 15.

    opiejeanne

    December 11, 2016 at 8:02 pm

    @Yarrow: yes. I don’t care either right now but Walsh’s reaction is just so late to the party.

  16. 16.

    Yarrow

    December 11, 2016 at 8:05 pm

    @Mnemosyne: Yep. It’s pretty clear. And Republicans are covering themselves in shame.

    @opiejeanne: It is but we need as many loud voices as we can get. Especially if they’re Republicans. All hands on deck.

  17. 17.

    SiubhanDuinne

    December 11, 2016 at 8:05 pm

    @EBT:

    an army of lawyers (whom he then screws over by not paying).

    Yeah, interesting. I’ve always wondered about that. His reputation is so notorious by now that it’s really pretty amazing that anyone would work for him for money, even with a signed contract, knowing that he is very unlikely to pay the contracted amount. What kind of idiots would still choose to become employees of anything Trump at this point?

  18. 18.

    Yarrow

    December 11, 2016 at 8:07 pm

    @SiubhanDuinne: So many people think it will never happen to them.

  19. 19.

    opiejeanne

    December 11, 2016 at 8:08 pm

    @SiubhanDuinne: Do we know that he doesn’t pay his lawyers? I’d think that would be the one block he’d pay.

  20. 20.

    Omnes Omnibus

    December 11, 2016 at 8:12 pm

    I absolutely think that Josh Marshall is right.

  21. 21.

    Omnes Omnibus

    December 11, 2016 at 8:14 pm

    @EBT: @SiubhanDuinne: The lawyers would demand a YUUUUGE retainer and then bill against it.

  22. 22.

    SenyorDave

    December 11, 2016 at 8:15 pm

    Quislings? I prefer treasonous bastards. Most people don’t know what quisling means. The average American probably thinks its a new type of Dunkin Donut.

    NOthing will come of this because it would require a few Republicans to come forward. That would require a few Republicans to have some integrity. Yeah, right.

  23. 23.

    Yarrow

    December 11, 2016 at 8:16 pm

    This is an epic tweet storm by Eric Garland. A Patriot Game Theory.

    Kinda reminds me of Cole a little bit.

  24. 24.

    Lizzy L

    December 11, 2016 at 8:17 pm

    @Omnes Omnibus: I do too. It’s one of the multiple reasons why he refuses to release his tax returns.

    Excellent column by Michael Cohen at The Boston Globe.
    https://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/2016/12/08/who-will-stand-donald-trump/s0xv1MGzIyLcXBA6AYi3GK/story.html

  25. 25.

    EBT

    December 11, 2016 at 8:20 pm

    @opiejeanne: Follow his non payment suits he constantly fends off, his old legal council are among the people who have since sued for payment.

  26. 26.

    opiejeanne

    December 11, 2016 at 8:23 pm

    @EBT: Oh. You’re right. I forgot about that. I blame the drugs.
    I am starting to remember odd things that happened while I was in the hospital a couple of weeks ago. Very hazy memories of little things.

  27. 27.

    Yarrow

    December 11, 2016 at 8:25 pm

    As for his financial situation, a significant percentage of his funding is Russian. They own him. He doesn’t play along with what they want they turn the screws on him financially. They probably also have kompromat of some sort. He’s only protecting his own interests. He’s certainly not protecting the country’s.

  28. 28.

    SiubhanDuinne

    December 11, 2016 at 8:26 pm

    @opiejeanne:

    I dunno, maybe he does. Hell, maybe the lawyers are the ones who make it possible for him not to pay anyone else.

  29. 29.

    Roger Moore

    December 11, 2016 at 8:26 pm

    One tiny ray of light I can see in an otherwise terrible picture: Russia’s desire for higher oil prices will be good for global warming, since it will drive down usage and encourage adoption of renewable energy. Fortunately, Obama’s energy policy has gotten us to the point that adopting renewables is an economically viable response to a spike in petroleum prices.

  30. 30.

    jk

    December 11, 2016 at 8:30 pm

    @Yarrow:

    @debbie:

    Trump is nothing less than a malignant cancer in our body politic

    It’s time for some goddamn motherfucking electors to become faithless and cast their ballots for Hillary to save us from becoming the kleptocratic state of clusterfuckistan under clusterfucker in chief Donald Shit for Brains Trump.

  31. 31.

    Baud

    December 11, 2016 at 8:31 pm

    @jk: Agree completely, but skeptical of it happening.

  32. 32.

    Lizzy L

    December 11, 2016 at 8:32 pm

    @Yarrow: Thanks for finding this. It’s excellent. I love the comment that George W. Bush learned English from the Rosetta Stone. Score!

  33. 33.

    Mnemosyne

    December 11, 2016 at 8:34 pm

    Since this is an open thread, a reminder for folks who haven’t seen it that the winner of our Cary Grant movies poll was announced and we’ll be discussing it next Saturday. I will also be posting a special Christmas Eve essay, and there’s a trailer and DVR alert that goes with it.

  34. 34.

    Yarrow

    December 11, 2016 at 8:36 pm

    @Lizzy L: Yeah, I read it in real time while he was posting it. It’s just epic. Hilarious. Plenty of ALL CAPS usage and aside comment. Like I said, it reminded me somewhat of a Cole rant.

  35. 35.

    Yarrow

    December 11, 2016 at 8:41 pm

    Also interesting, for anyone who has spent time arguing with various flavors of Bernie bros or MAGA supporters:

    A lot of the MAGA/grandma/veteran/Christian/IStandWithIsrael accounts?

    Botnets.

    A lot of the Bernie Bro/NeverHillary accounts?

    Botnets.— ? (@leahmcelrath) December 12, 2016

    Many Americans on social media during this election thought we were fighting with each other when we were really being targeted by psy-ops.— ? (@leahmcelrath) December 12, 2016

    They were botnets. Probably Russian sponsored with the goal of widening already existing fissures in our country. She talks about how she had an immense block list full of these people on her Twitter account. The day after the election they vanished. Poof. Gone. You can click through to see the whole tweet storm.

  36. 36.

    mai naem mobile

    December 11, 2016 at 8:42 pm

    I know people in real estate and the hotel/motel business. It wouldn’t surprise me at all if Lumpy is severely over leveraged. He’s not that great a businessman and I am guessing the golf resorts and hotels weren’t dking all that well till a couple of years ago,if they even were. The extended family who is in the motel biz (I know it’s not luxury stuff like Lumpus) says hotels had a really hard time after 07 and even before then weren’t doing that great and things have only improved in the last 18-24 months. It’s a tough competitive business with AirBnb,Flip Key etc hurting them. Also, golf isn’t as popular as it used to be so I’m guessing that doesn’t help his business either.

  37. 37.

    jk

    December 11, 2016 at 8:45 pm

    @Baud:

    Of all the dystopian scenarios one could conjure up, I can’t think of anything more nauseating than our current predicament:

    a racist, sexist, totalitarian serial liar is going to become the next president because the electors are too fucking stupid or too fucking gutless to do the right thing and vote for Hillary.

  38. 38.

    Yarrow

    December 11, 2016 at 8:46 pm

    @mai naem mobile: The folks in Scotland could tell you about that – remember when he visited there during the campaign? Initially it was supposed to be a huge project with a big luxury resort and hire all sorts of people from construction to staff. It was scaled back several times and ended up just using an existing building and making it a boutique hotel with something like 12 rooms. No significant benefit for the community. It’s all smoke and mirrors.

  39. 39.

    Baud

    December 11, 2016 at 8:47 pm

    @jk: And the voters. Don’t forget that real people pulled the lever for the creep.

  40. 40.

    mai naem mobile

    December 11, 2016 at 8:49 pm

    In a previous lifetime, also used to deal with a few people in real estate who were always cash poor asset rich. One guy owned a shitload of property – 100+ homes + several small apt complexes etc.but always,always ahort of cash because he could never turn down a “good deal.” Trump reminds me of this guy except it’s the situation on steroids and Trump has psych issues.

  41. 41.

    Mnemosyne

    December 11, 2016 at 8:53 pm

    @Yarrow:

    If I weren’t already in perimenopause, I would have this man’s babies solely on the strength of the following tweet about Snowden:

    FT! HOLY F**KING ADORABLE BATMAN! Honi soit qui mal y pense! How dare you suggest untoward Russian involvement! Journamalisms!!!!

  42. 42.

    Yarrow

    December 11, 2016 at 8:59 pm

    @Mnemosyne: I know, right? So many good parts to it. And inspirational in the end.

  43. 43.

    gogol's wife

    December 11, 2016 at 9:00 pm

    @Yarrow:

    I know, somebody said to me the other day, you don’t want Evan McMullin as president, he’s anti-choice. I wasn’t talking about him being president. He told the truth on the op-ed page of the New York Times. I’m thanking everyone who does that at this point, whatever else they may do or say.

  44. 44.

    Baud

    December 11, 2016 at 9:04 pm

    @gogol’s wife: I got tired of the McMullin praise because it seemed like too many people even now refuse to give up maligning our own party.

    But generally agree with the need to reach out to as many as possible.

  45. 45.

    pluky

    December 11, 2016 at 9:04 pm

    @Shantanu Saha: Thank you for pointing this out. I was thinking exactly the same thing. Also makes me wonder if this entire ‘run for president’ thing was a Hail Mary attempt to keep the whole thing from crashing and burning that succeed beyond his wildest imagination.

  46. 46.

    Yarrow

    December 11, 2016 at 9:05 pm

    @gogol’s wife: Yes, me too. I feel like people don’t get what an existential crisis this is. The entire American system of government is at risk. The people ringing the loudest alarm bells seem to be those who are from (perhaps their families fled) Russia or Eastern European countries or those who have studied authoritarian governments. They’ve been calling this for, in some cases, two years now. They predicted it and could see it unfolding. The tells were all there. None of this is a surprise. That’s why we need to applaud and support anyone who speaks up against this even if we disagree with them in other ways. Strength in numbers. Resist.

  47. 47.

    gogol's wife

    December 11, 2016 at 9:07 pm

    @Baud:

    Oh, I still stand with Warren, Schumer, my own senators Murphy and Blumenthal. I’m hoping they will keep up the fight. But we need more than that.

  48. 48.

    Baud

    December 11, 2016 at 9:08 pm

    @gogol’s wife: Right. Didn’t mean you personally.

  49. 49.

    Mary G

    December 11, 2016 at 9:09 pm

    @Yarrow: That was AMAZING. Thank you.

    This thread is ACES. It's 75% Fox Mulder rant and 25% impassioned speech by your fav disaster movie president. ? https://t.co/oq6v7FUeuL— ? Annie ⛄ (@anniemoon) December 12, 2016

  50. 50.

    Yarrow

    December 11, 2016 at 9:13 pm

    @Mary G: :) And I loved that tweet you posted. So funny.

  51. 51.

    jk

    December 11, 2016 at 9:15 pm

    @Baud:

    Yes, unfortunately that’s true and fuck all of them too!!

  52. 52.

    Mary G

    December 11, 2016 at 9:16 pm

    @Yarrow: He speaks for me!

    @LyndaRubin2 We will fight them on the Twitters. We shall fight the, in our Uncle’s Facebook feed, and even in the Pinterest. Maybe.— Eric Garland (@ericgarland) December 11, 2016

  53. 53.

    mai naem mobile

    December 11, 2016 at 9:18 pm

    @Yarrow: my whole freaking family cannot see why everybody else cannot see that Lumpy is a con man. A huckster. A used car salesman. A timeshare salesman. It’s so freaking clear to every one of us and we can see it from a mile away. Gawd. Argghh.

  54. 54.

    Baud

    December 11, 2016 at 9:19 pm

    @mai naem mobile: I’m with your family on this.

  55. 55.

    Yarrow

    December 11, 2016 at 9:19 pm

    @Mary G: Ha. Funny. See my above comment with the two tweets about the Russian sponsored botnets. We spend our time fighting them there and we aren’t fighting them for real.

  56. 56.

    Lizzy L

    December 11, 2016 at 9:24 pm

    @mai naem mobile: Exactly. I feel like 95% of the voters in California should be walking around with signs that say “America — WTF?”

  57. 57.

    jk

    December 11, 2016 at 9:26 pm

    @Yarrow:

    I feel like people don’t get what an existential crisis this is. The entire American system of government is at risk.

    Millions of Americans have been lobotomized into a catatonic stupor and are simply incapable of exercising their critical thinking skills.

    In addition to the horrible outcome of this election, CNN sank to an all-time low for a news organization. The countless hours of pure, unadulterated bullshit that it allowed Jeffrey Lord, Kayleigh McEnany etc to spew is unforgivable and every exec at that network deserves to burn in Hell for polluting our airwaves with this garbage.

  58. 58.

    aimai

    December 11, 2016 at 9:28 pm

    @Yarrow: Wow. My mind is blown.

  59. 59.

    Yarrow

    December 11, 2016 at 9:33 pm

    @aimai: Wow for real? Or sarcasm? It’s a great thread on twitter for real. Eye-opening.

  60. 60.

    Yarrow

    December 11, 2016 at 9:35 pm

    @jk: Yep. There were some print journalists doing great work but the TV networks were pathetic. The whole horse race phenomenon is so corrosive. This isn’t a football game. We don’t have “teams.” This stuff affects peoples lives. It’s real. They treat it like a reality show. I guess that’s why we got a reality show host as president. Ugh.

  61. 61.

    prob50

    December 11, 2016 at 9:41 pm

    @SiubhanDuinne: I once worked for someone who was a lot like Trump, except on a smaller scale of course. He lied to his investor’s, when things went wrong he always had someone else to blame (usually an employee, he would often blame his bookkeeper when investor’s would complain about not getting their payments, loudly fire him while the customer was in the office and then tell him to come in the next day. Nothing was ever his fault. He would have work done at his home or office and then not pay the tradesman or company, claiming the work was badly done.

    One difference from Trump was that this guy could be very charming and personable. Another difference was that somebody finally murdered him – never solved.

  62. 62.

    jk

    December 11, 2016 at 9:51 pm

    @Yarrow:

    The TV networks were pathetic.

    It’s amazing how far standards have fallen. Once upon a time, you could turn on the television and see Walter Cronkite, John Chancellor, Howard K. Smith, Eric Severeid, etc and now you’ve got Joe Scarborough, Chris Matthews, Wolf Blitzer, and Anderson “Keeping Them Honest” Cooper.

    I didn’t think MSNBC could fuck up their timeslot any further, but now that they’ve dropped Halperin and Heileman, they’ve given Chris Matthews 2 hours a night to pollute our airwaves.

  63. 63.

    Yarrow

    December 11, 2016 at 9:56 pm

    @jk: MSNBC should just put Joy Reid on all the time. That would be a refreshing change.

  64. 64.

    Corner Stone

    December 11, 2016 at 10:00 pm

    @Yarrow: I’d happily take rotating hours of Joy Reid and Tamron Hall all day long, as a tag team.
    It’s a fucking disgrace they put Moaning Joe on 3 hours AND THEN follow him up with an hour from Stephanie Ruhle who is a free market, anti-public school right wing advocate asshole.

  65. 65.

    Yarrow

    December 11, 2016 at 10:04 pm

    @Corner Stone: I love Tamron Hall usually. I saw her fill in for Lester Holt on the NBC Nightly News on Friday (I think). I don’t know what they’d done to her. Her enunciation and emphasis of the words she was reading was really odd. It was like sitting in the big chair they told her to make it more serious or something. Didn’t work. But yes, I’d take ten hours of her over most of the people they have on MSNBC.

  66. 66.

    Corner Stone

    December 11, 2016 at 10:10 pm

    @Yarrow: Don’t you disparage Tamron Hall! Don’t you fucking do it!
    Problemz? We gonna haz them.

  67. 67.

    Yarrow

    December 11, 2016 at 10:17 pm

    @Corner Stone: No! I wouldn’t dream of it. I love her. I think she is the most gorgeous thing and very good at her job. I randomly turned on the TV and just happened to run across her. I was kind of excited to see her filing in. But something was off. She just sounded…weird. I had a sad. I don’t know what they did to her. :(

  68. 68.

    Tazj

    December 11, 2016 at 10:29 pm

    @Yarrow: Amen

  69. 69.

    jk

    December 11, 2016 at 10:39 pm

    @Yarrow: @Corner Stone:

    Morning Blowjob is a super-sized, putrid, steaming pile of excrement – Willie Geist has less personality than a sheet of cardboard, “legendary” journalist Mike Barnicle is a fucking plagiarist, Katy Kay is a textbook case of Hillary derangement syndrome, and all the other regular panelists flat out suck!

    Chris Matthews is a daily crime against journalism and simply one of the most repulsive individuals to ever host a cable news program. I’d replace him with Joy Reid or Tamron Hall in a fucking nanosecond if I could.

  70. 70.

    jk

    December 11, 2016 at 10:46 pm

    @Yarrow: @Corner Stone:

    One of the few high points on cable for me this campaign season was watching Tamron Hall completely wipe the floor with that criminal waste of protoplasm Scott Baio.

  71. 71.

    Omnes Omnibus

    December 11, 2016 at 10:51 pm

    @Lizzy L: Really? 95% of Californians voted against Trump?

  72. 72.

    Mnemosyne

    December 11, 2016 at 10:59 pm

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    95% of Californians who count. ;-)

    Actually, I think we got to the 27 percent mark, or remarkably close to it.

    Also, too, I heard an interesting story from a lawyer here at the Giant Evil Corporation about an emergency meeting they all had. No specifics, but it was exactly what I would have hoped to hear. I don’t think I can say more.

  73. 73.

    Omnes Omnibus

    December 11, 2016 at 11:08 pm

    @Mnemosyne: I live in a county that voted the same way (70-ish%). I was also responding to a comment that seemed premised on 95% being true. You guys did better than many other locations, but exaggerating it is unhelpful.

  74. 74.

    catclub

    December 11, 2016 at 11:18 pm

    @mai naem mobile: Yes. My motto is:
    “Other people are fundamentally mysterious.” It is not that I don’t understand why he barely lost the popular vote. I don’t understand how he got over 10% of the vote.

  75. 75.

    catclub

    December 11, 2016 at 11:21 pm

    @jk: Only problem is that you have watched enough to know these details. I can proudly say: Have watched less than two minutes of Morning Joe and Chris Matthews – Combined.

    Ha!

  76. 76.

    opiejeanne

    December 11, 2016 at 11:24 pm

    @Lizzy L: Saw a sign next to the I-5 in … Yolo county? Maybe it was Glenn County. Farmers for Trump. That’s the only Trump sign we’ve seen on this trip, and whenever I’ve seen the very few, I felt like I should hiss like my cat does.
    The next field had a sign, something something Libertarians respect … rights, and another sign next to it for Johnson.

  77. 77.

    Brachiator

    December 11, 2016 at 11:26 pm

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    Really? 95% of Californians voted against Trump?

    No. It just feels like it.

  78. 78.

    Omnes Omnibus

    December 11, 2016 at 11:35 pm

    @Brachiator: Yeah, it feels like it where I live too. Seems Kaelish, so I dismiss it. Again, look at the context of my question.

  79. 79.

    Brachiator

    December 11, 2016 at 11:45 pm

    @Yarrow:

    Yes, me too. I feel like people don’t get what an existential crisis this is. The entire American system of government is at risk.

    People don’t care. They don’t care because they think that something more important is at risk.

    The GOP, and Trump voters, do not believe in an expansive democracy which embraces all its citizens. They believe that democracy exists to protect American civilization, a civilization which exists primarily to promote free market capitalism and the life, liberty and pursuit of happiness of white Christians. Other people can come along for the ride, as long as they accept the natural hierarchy of white America.

    So, if anyone says that the election was illegitimate or that Trump does not have a mandate, the response of the Trump defenders would be that the entire previous government was illegitimate, and that sacrificing democracy is necessary in order to protect white civilization.

  80. 80.

    Omnes Omnibus

    December 11, 2016 at 11:50 pm

    @Brachiator: You offer a lot of criticisms of other people’s views of what happened and what should be done to fix it. I don’t necessarily disagree with you. But then, I have not seen you offer ideas for how we can move forward. Have I missed them or are you just talking down everyone else? What do you suggest that we do?

  81. 81.

    Mnemosyne

    December 11, 2016 at 11:53 pm

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    I’m pretty sure that Lizzy was exaggerating for comic effect. YMMV, of course.

  82. 82.

    Mnemosyne

    December 11, 2016 at 11:55 pm

    @opiejeanne:

    There was somebody in my neighborhood who had a giant Trump banner hanging on his house. It was gone 2 days after Election Day.

  83. 83.

    Brachiator

    December 12, 2016 at 12:06 am

    @Omnes Omnibus:There are a number of reasons that California feels like a political oasis. From the LA Times:

    Clinton beat Donald Trump by nearly five percentage points, or 39,000 votes, in Orange county, which is a national symbol for the GOP — the home to Richard Nixon and the cradle of Ronald Reagan’s conservatism.

    The last time a Democrat won the county was 1936. For decades, it was a GOP stronghold, with Republican presidential candidates routinely beating their Democratic rivals by double-digit margins.

    Even Obama lost in Orange County to McCain in 2008, by 2.5 percent.

    Obviously, there has been a big demographic shift.

    But apart from the presidential vote totals, which people can look up, there is a Democratic super majority in the state legislature and broad support, for now, for opposition to Trump’s stated policies. So, it will be interesting to see if California can be a political firewall.

  84. 84.

    Omnes Omnibus

    December 12, 2016 at 12:09 am

    @Brachiator: You still missed the context of my question.

    ETA: Painkillers say that I am going to bed soon. Argue later?

  85. 85.

    Brachiator

    December 12, 2016 at 12:19 am

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    You offer a lot of criticisms of other people’s views of what happened and what should be done to fix it. I don’t necessarily disagree with you.

    I don’t think that you can fight an opponent effectively if you don’t accurately understand him or her.

    But for now, there is not much that anyone here can do except support our elected representatives and look to see what Trump actually does after he is inaugurated.

  86. 86.

    moops

    December 12, 2016 at 12:19 am

    http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/09/us/politics/donald-trump-transition.html

    Department of Energy got a letter from the transition team

    “If the DOE’s topline budget in accounts other than the 050 account were required to be reduced 10% over the next four fiscal years (from the FY17 request and starting in FY18), does the Department have any recommendations as to where those reductions should be made?” A 050 account indicates national defense spending.

    “Can you provide a list of Department employees who attended any of the Conference of the Parties (under the UNFCCC) in the last five years?”

    The witch hunt is starting. Our Exxon-Mobile CEO cum Secretary of Energy is not a fan of climate treaties, or science, or renewables.

  87. 87.

    fuckwit

    December 12, 2016 at 12:31 am

    well, it is a renewable resource: there’s one born every minute.

  88. 88.

    boatboy_srq

    December 12, 2016 at 1:45 pm

    Ponzi.

    Pyramid.

    Scam.

    Grift.

    Call it what you want, this is the business model that tRumpets think is so laudable.

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