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You are here: Home / Politics / Trumpery / Hail to the Hairpiece / Open Thread: Juggalo Libel

Open Thread: Juggalo Libel

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But the Juggalos are more politically aware than your average Trump voter! At least according to Nathan Rabin, interviewed (before the election) at PopMatters:

Nathan Rabin is a respected writer for respectable publications. He was the first head writer of the The A.V. Club (where he continues to write the popular feature My Year of Flops). He writes for Rotten Tomatoes and Splitsider. He is also a Juggalo. This past summer, he took the proceeds of a successful gofundme campaign to write a book that documented a whirlwind week that included attending both the yearly Gathering of the Juggalos and the Republican National Convention, where Trump went from being a perpetual annoyance of the Republican establishment to the party’s official nominee for president…

It seems like a lot of Trump supporters and Insane Clown Posse fans share similar experiences. You talk about how each of them feel like they’ve been marginalized from mainstream society.

Totally. I think they both [Trump and ICP] speak to people who feel oppressed, people who feel angry, people who feel like the mainstream of American culture doesn’t speak either to them or for them. But I think they both take these ideas in very different directions.

Covering both events in a week, did you see much overlap between Trump supports and Insane Clown Posse fans?

I do not. Every gathering, there’s kind of an angle that you’re supposed to approach. I was supposed to write about how Juggalos were huge Trump fans. I said “That’s a wonderful idea. That’d be a great piece. I think it’s probably impossible. I’m not sure these people exist.” It would have been amazing and fascinating to talk to people who embraced both the ideology of Insane Clown Posse and the ideology of Trump. But it just didn’t happen.

While there are a lot of commonalities, there are also a lot of ways that they are starkly different. They’re both very anti-establishment. But I feel like Trump and his ideology are about punching down. They’re about scapegoating. They’re about blaming people at the very bottom of the socioeconomic ladder for the problems of America. Whereas Insane Clown Posse, they’re about punching up. They’re saying “We’re angry at law enforcement. We’re angry at rich white people who are evil. We’re angry at the corrupt establishment. We’re angry at people who have everything while you have nothing.”

Reader Interactions

96Comments

  1. 1.

    danielx

    But the Juggalos are more politically aware than your average Trump voter!

    Applause, but one is compelled to wonder how much heavy lifting is required to be more politically aware than your average Trump voter.

    Also too, it is 14 degrees outside and it’s that time when cats again come into their own, fulfilling their natural function as small portable heating units.

  5. 5.

    chopper

    But the Juggalos are more politically aware than your average Trump voter!

    not saying much but interesting nonetheless.

  15. 15.

    Mnemosyne

    So because I’m kind of starting to get into this whole historical dance thing, I ordered a readymade Regency dress from this seller on Etsy so I’ll have something to wear to the Jane Austen Tea in January.

    You’ll know I’ve really gotten into the cosplaying when I order a period corset to wear under it. ?

    If any of the other local Juicers — particularly the gentlemen, since there’s always a shortage of men — would be interested, i can give you the info at our next meetup on 12/18 (exact time still TBD). I go to a group in Monrovia because it works best for my schedule, but there are at least a dozen different groups all around LA.

  16. 16.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Major Major Major Major: After 40 years they’ve finally realized that a military supported dictatorship that controls all aspects of society and who’s personnel wear uniforms in black and grey and who’s foot soldiers are called stormtroopers is an allegory for the NAZIs. And now they’re insulted because they’ve always liked the Empire.

  22. 22.

    Yarrow

    From the article at the top:

    We’re angry at the corrupt establishment. We’re angry at people who have everything while you have nothing.”

    Isn’t that what Trump supporters were saying they were angry about? They were angry about “elites.” They didn’t want “Goldman Sachs” running the country. That’s kind of another way of saying what the Juggalos are saying. I feel like there could be more overlap there than people think. Or the potential anyway.

  24. 24.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @Mnemosyne:

    One of my good friends lives in L.A. (Santa Monica) and is a devoted Janeite. She’s written several Austen “sequels” and period plays, and is very active in Austen-related activities both in the U.S. and the U.K. If you want to connect with her, or even just know her name so you can look out for her, let me know offline. SiubhanDuinne (at) gmail (dot) com.

  26. 26.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Yarrow:Juggaloes are more likely to be in HRC’s pool than others. They tend to actually be poor. They may be Hillary’s absent vote. They are the ones who may think that voting doesn’t matter.

  28. 28.

    John Revolta

    @Omnes Omnibus: Yeah, that’s nothin’. I know a bunch of white guys who love the Blues and hate them n******rs. Some of ’em even have bands. I can’t hardly listen to fucking Stevie Ray Vaughn anymore.

  29. 29.

    Adam L Silverman

    @GregB: I have no idea. The only Ailes rumor I’ve seen today is Mehdi Hassan reporting that he’s supposedly in line to be appointed Under Secretary of State for Public Diplomacy. The transition is denying this.

  35. 35.

    hellslittlestangel

    He should ask closet Republican Iggy Pop to perform. That would be a “Fuck You, America” on so many levels.

  40. 40.

    SWMBO

    I posted this on Facebook:
    Just got home from Allegiance. Still emotional after that. I wish they had another showing of it. I stayed after the credits and saw the backstory. Most of the cast either were in a camp or related to someone who was. One of the things mentioned was that we are on a precipice that can lead to it again. “Sam” reminds me a little of Captain Khan (fighting for this country to prove his loyalty). Overall the program was well done.

    If they do this again, go. It is that good.

  41. 41.

    Terry Buckalew

    @John Revolta: I’ve worked in blues-musician, radio host, concert promoter. There are a few fans and lesser white artists who are racist/have no appreciation of blues’ social/cultural history. And…
    I think John Revolta was saying some musicians are racist, not SRV, who had a good reputation. I never heard that of him. thanks.

  44. 44.

    SWMBO

    @GregB: It was on after the credits. George Takei of course was one. He was showing some of the exhibits in the Japanese American Museum and how they related to the play. It also showed him visiting Heart Camp where the play takes place. Greg Watanabe found out that some of his family were in camps doing background research on the play. All of them talked about the ones who were there and how hard it was for the adults to talk about it even years later.

  46. 46.

    John Revolta

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: Sorry, that’s not what I meant to imply. Stevie Ray was an immense talent and I’m a big fan. But I know too many fat old white guys who think he invented the Goddamn blues and who wouldn’t piss on, say, T-Bone Walker if he was on fire. Drives me nuts.

  48. 48.

    Mnemosyne

    @SWMBO:

    I would have liked to go, but the scheduling just didn’t work out tonight. ? I hope my friend who did go see it had a better experience than I did the last time I tried to see a simulcast at the AMC Burbank 16. They really fucked up the simulcast of “Don Giovanni” in a major way, so I was also wary of seeing another simulcast there.

  50. 50.

    SWMBO

    @Mnemosyne: I have been to several simulcasts in the last year. So far, it has been good except for The Iron Giant. We bought tickets for one theater only to find when we got there that they had a plumbing problem and the health department shut them down. We knew it was showing at another theater so we drove like maniacs to the other theater. Missed about 3 minutes but otherwise it was fine.

  53. 53.

    Mnemosyne

    @efgoldman:

    Please, like I don’t already overshare with you jackals.

    @divF:

    Supposedly (ahem) the corsets from the period I would be dressing in are more comfortable than the Victorian ones. It was more like a girdle with some bust support than something that was supposed to squeeze your waist down to 18 inches or less. They’re also quite a bit shorter, ending around the level of the ribcage rather than going past the hips.

    I don’t think it’s a coincidence that, as women demanded more rights starting around the 1820s, their clothes simultaneously became more and more restrictive, and that lasted basically until woman suffrage happened in most of the Western democracies. The corsets that Victorian women wore would have been considered torture devices by their Georgian and Regency grandmothers.

    (This is very over-generalized, obviously, but it did seem to be something of a trend.)

  54. 54.

    Mnemosyne

    @SWMBO:

    The abovenamed theater in Burbank, CA, not only put us in the wrong theater to begin with and made us switch out with a different audience, they couldn’t figure out how to make the house lights stay off during the show and the final aria was cut off when some kind of automatic AMC ad started running and they couldn’t shut it off. It was a total fiasco.

  56. 56.

    divF

    @Mnemosyne: I was thinking more of the two “corset scenes” in the first Pirates of the Carribbean movie (the rescue, and “you like pain ? Try wearing a corset”). Of course, the movie was all over the place as to period (they finally settled on George I), so I don’t think one can vouch for authenticity.

  57. 57.

    Davebo

    Three weeks away from getting out of TX for a while to a place that hates Trump even more than I do.

    Hopefully I’ll find some kindred spirits in Glen Eagles.

  58. 58.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @Mnemosyne:

    I expect you’ve read Eight Cousins by Louisa May Alcott. A major theme in the novel is about freeing Rose Campbell (the young heroine) from corsets, high heels, and other restrictive clothing and encouraging her to be both active and aware of her own body — quite a controversial position to take in the 1870s!

  59. 59.

    Mnemosyne

    @Yarrow:
    @divF:

    This page meant for historical re-enactors has some pretty good information. There was a whole “back to nature” movement inspired by Rousseau and appreciation for Classical Greek and Roman art. You even had aristocratic women like the Duchess of Devonshire breastfeeding their own children! And the fashions of the time reflected that. It kinda-sorta-but not entirely coincided with the Romantic Movement in the arts.

  60. 60.

    Mnemosyne

    @SiubhanDuinne:

    I have not, but I remember that one of the most interesting things in a PBS biography of Alcott was that she was an avid runner — basically, a marathoner before her time. So it makes perfect sense to me that she would include that in one of her novels.

  65. 65.

    Anne Laurie

    @SiubhanDuinne: All of Alcott’s children’s books are amazingly “progressive” for their era — for instance, the Baers in Little Men and Jo’s Boys ran the equivalent of a Montessori boarding school, where a ‘ragged street beggar’s’ son could grow up to marry the gently-reared clergyman’s daughter.

    It’s also interesting, re-reading them as an adult, to realize just how much I’d missed the background trauma of the post-Civil War period when I first read them as a child. Of course in Little Women Papa is (conveniently) “off to the War”, but I didn’t realize the widowed mothers / abandoned children / ‘lost’ men wandering the countryside in Under the Lilacs or Jack & Jill were not just storytelling devices but lived reality for a lot of her contemporary readers.

  66. 66.

    M. Bouffant

    Added pointless note: The Nuge turned 68 today (the 13th). Four yrs. since he said he’d be in jail or dead six months into Obama’s second term. Moran.

  68. 68.

    Mart

    “It seems like a lot of Trump supporters and Insane Clown Posse fans share similar experiences. ”

    My experience w/ ICP was after being miserable for a few days after 911 the Rolling Stone magazine arrived with ICP on the cover. I thought, good, I can get lost on some mindless gossip, some good articles written pre-911, and album and movie reviews. So I start reading about ICP (realize over time my memory is not as good as it used to be but…) as I recall the articles first few paragraphs had ICP bragging about sex with 5 year old boys. And I broke down again, thinking Bin Laden is right, America has lost its moral compass. So fuck ICP, and OBL, and fuck Trump supporters who like ICP.

  69. 69.

    ThresherK (GPad)

    I am not the audience ICP is after, and they haven’t attracted me. (Many things I’m too old for do catch my interest.)

    My year of Flops, though? He wrote that? Wow. That is some good writing by a person with a decent eye for flix.

  70. 70.

    Yarrow

    Sure seems like the hacking was meant to influence the election.

    Today is the first time I have written a piece about Trump foreign policy issues and Newsweek hasn't been attacked by overseas hackers.— Kurt Eichenwald (@kurteichenwald) December 13, 2016

  71. 71.

    Это курам на смех

    @Yarrow:

    Isn’t that what Trump supporters were saying they were angry about? They were angry about “elites.” They didn’t want “Goldman Sachs” running the country.

    But now that they have won, all is forgiven.

    Are any of them complaining that instead of draining the swamp their boy is stocking it with crocodiles? When do they rise up and demand that his elitist cabinet picks not be seated?

    I’ll wait.

  72. 72.

    Yarrow

    @Это курам на смех: I have seen a couple of articles where people who voted for Trump are upset with some of his choices for his cabinet. They didn’t like the Goldman Sachs people, for instance. That was before the Russian hacking stuff broke wide open, though. I don’t know what is voters might think now.

  73. 73.

    Mnemosyne

    @Это курам на смех:

    Butbutbut Trusted Whistleblower Ed Snowden told us back in February that this election was a choice between Trump and Goldman Sachs. You don’t think he, like, lied to us or something, do you?

    Prediction: Snowden is going to get a pardon from Comrade Trump, and probably a government job. Why wouldn’t he? He did exactly what he was paid to do.

  74. 74.

    Mnemosyne

    Also, too, I think the ONLY goddamned thing that could save us now would be that Putin decides that Trump is too much of a loose cannon to be in charge, and he’d rather have a President Hillary to start a new Cold War with than have Trump start a nuclear exchange with China on Russia’s doorstep. The Russians know how fallout works from Chernobyl.

    In other words, we’re totally fucked no matter what.

  75. 75.

    Yarrow

    @Mnemosyne: That would be pretty obvious if they pardoned Snowden. Doubt it would happen in the first year. Maybe if they get everything they want and things seem to be going their way – they’ve scared the media into complete submission, rounded up some people, started a war. At that point, as Trump said, he could shoot someone in the middle of the street and everyone would still love him.

  76. 76.

    Yarrow

    @Mnemosyne: If Putin took out Trump, wouldn’t we end up with Pence? Would that be better for Putin? The only way I see us getting Hillary is via the electoral college. And time’s getting short on that.

  77. 77.

    Yarrow

    I guess I missed this earlier today:

    Sr intelligence source says real concern is antagonism among top Trump picks toward Iran. Says its eerily similar to Bush admin towards Iraq— Katy Tur (@KatyTurNBC) December 13, 2016

    War with Iran. That doesn’t sound good.

  78. 78.

    Mnemosyne

    @Yarrow:

    That would be pretty obvious if they pardoned Snowden.

    Trump just nominated a guy for Secretary of State who received an actual goddamned medal from Putin. He doesn’t do “subtle.”

    I think Snowden would be pardoned by June.

    @Yarrow:

    And this is why I want to punch all of the fucking sanctimonious America deserves this because of what we did to Iran! assholes in their smug little faces. Why do the people of Iran have to suffer a second time to teach America a lesson? I think they would prefer an apology over bombing, if it’s all the same to us.

  79. 79.

    Yarrow

    @Mnemosyne: I guess with the Snowden thing, what’s in it for Trump? What’s in it for Putin? I can see nominating Tillerson being a win for Putin, and probably a money maker for Trump in some way we can’t know because we have no idea what investments and business ties Trump has. But pardoning Snowden? Who does that benefit? And he’s got a high enough profile, and enough members of Congress would be fairly outraged by it that it wouldn’t just slip by. I’m probably missing something because it’s late and I’m tired, but without a financial benefit for Trump or some reason Putin wants it, I’m not sure it would be done that soon.

    Are you suggesting he’d get a government job and then be a fairly obvious spy?

  80. 80.

    Mnemosyne

    @Yarrow:

    Are you suggesting he’d get a government job and then be a fairly obvious spy?

    No, the government job would be a reward for services rendered to Putin and Trump. And the whole point of the pardon would be as a giant “fuck you” to Congress and the media. Once Trump gets sworn in, all bets are off. He’s going to be fucking gleeful that nobody stopped him and his con worked, and he’s going to do all kinds of shit to piss people off who he thinks are insufficiently deferential to his greatness. It’s what he does.

    As soon as Trump is sworn in, Putin is going to very publicly be our BFF in the whole world, at least until Trump fucks up too badly.

    ETA: I think you’re forgetting that Trump loves Putin. He’s been saying for years that Obama is weak and Putin is strong. They’ve met in person at least once, and Trump knows the same oligarchs that Putin does. Trump is very deeply enmeshed with Russian banks.

  81. 81.

    Yarrow

    @Mnemosyne: Yeah, I agree. All bets are off. Authoritarianism closes in quickly. People have no idea. You could be right that he’ll pardon Snowden just because he can. I don’t know. Hey, maybe he’ll help Assange too. Get him out of the Ecuadorian embassy and to some safe place like Moscow or Washington, D.C., Putin’s latest satellite state.

  83. 83.

    Ian

    @Yarrow:
    I think there is considerable overlap. Of the Juggalos I know there are the politically unaware, extreme conservatives, and extreme liberals. I do not know a single Juggalo who holds moderate centrist ideals.

  85. 85.

    Zinsky

    The so-called “musicians” who are willing to play at Der Trumpenfuhrer’s inauguration are a perfect analog of the shitbag they will be performing for – old, stupid, low-information, washed up, untalented egotists. I would rather have a boil lanced than listen to the shitty music produced by these two worthless wastes of good oxygen!

  87. 87.

    Richard Grant

    Disagree with Dana Houle. The Trump organization would be risking its staid reputation to be labeled as Posse grabbers.

  89. 89.

    Dadadadadadada

    @Yarrow: Except the Juggalos are (presumably) smart enough to channel their resentment into something other than empowering the people they hate the most.

  90. 90.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    @Adam L Silverman: That’s not snark. Go to talk to some Star Wars fan bois. Fascists the lot, the thing is the idiots don’t see they will be little people under it and no idea who government, even a dictatorship, works. It these simpletons are the Alt Right no wonder they bought into Trump’s BS.

  91. 91.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    @Yarrow: depends on what the last person to talk to Trump said to him about Snowden. Trump can’t make any money or get his name on something out of Snowden so that’s the end of Trump’s real interest in him.

  92. 92.

    Citizen_X

    @Mnemosyne: Alternatively, it’s just as likely that Putin will have somebody run Snowden over on a Moscow street, just because he might be slightly inconvenient. Trump wouldn’t say squat about such an incident.

  93. 93.

    Brachiator

    @Major Major Major Major:

    Apparently white supremacists and trump supporters are upset about Star Wars

    White supremacists and trump supporters are generally upset about everything.

    Hell, they are probably upset that Mickey Mouse is black and brown.

  94. 94.

    Brachiator

    @Yarrow: RE: Sr intelligence source says real concern is antagonism among top Trump picks toward Iran. Says its eerily similar to Bush admin towards Iraq— Katy Tur (@KatyTurNBC) December 13, 2016

    War with Iran. That doesn’t sound good.

    Could Trump really be that stupid? War with Iran would undo the Trump regime. He is on record as saying that he thought that Iraq was a mistake. And he prefers to blather about bombing the shit out of ISIS. War with Iran would be a huge shift in direction, and ground troops would end up being just another quagmire.

    Of course, war with Iran might please Putin, because the US would alienate all its European allies with another Middle East folly.

    War with Iran would also set off civil unrest in the US, since Trump would probably precede any Middle East action with preemptive repression of Muslim Americans (if he does not find some lame excuse beforehand).

  96. 96.

    Bill

    But the Juggalos are more politically aware than your average Trump voter!

    I’m guessing Jugglos tend more toward anarchism than authoritarianism. But unless drinking cough syrup and punching each other in the face is considered a political philosophy, there’s probably little agreement in this group. I’ve seen ICP a few times. The music is “meh” but probably the best crowd watching of any show I’ve been to.

    If anyone is interested in the topic i recommend this book: Which is excellent for other reasons too.

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