CHARLESTON, S.C. — Dylann S. Roof, a self-radicalized young white supremacist who killed nine black parishioners last year when he opened fire during a long-planned assault on Emanuel African Methodist Episcopal Church, was found guilty by a federal jury here on Thursday.
The jury convicted Mr. Roof of nine counts of hate crimes resulting in death, three counts of hate crimes involving an attempt to kill (there were three survivors), nine counts of obstructing the exercise of religion resulting in death, three counts of that charge with an attempt to kill, and nine counts of using a firearm to commit murder during a crime of violence.
Not all hate crimes are acts of terrorism, but some, like Roof’s actions at Mother Emanuel Church were. His statements as he commenced killing – “‘You rape our women and you’re taking over the country. You have to go.’” – and his manifesto make it clear his use of violence was intended to achieve political action through fear and intimidation.
Here’s the US’s definition of domestic terrorism from 18 U.S. Code § 2331 – Definitions:
(5) the term “domestic terrorism” means activities that—
(A) involve acts dangerous to human life that are a violation of the criminal laws of the United States or of any State;
(B) appear to be intended—(i)to intimidate or coerce a civilian population;(ii) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or(iii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination, or kidnapping; and(C) occur primarily within the territorial jurisdiction of the United States.
Mnemosyne
Well, that’s a relief. I was getting pretty frickin’ nervous after the events of the past month or so.
SiubhanDuinne
If anyone should be executed, he should be.
And I hope he’s not. I want to see the death penalty completely abolished in this country, no matter how heinous or open-and-shut the crime.
Baud
@Mnemosyne: Same here.
japa21
@SiubhanDuinne: Same here.
Mary G
@SiubhanDuinne: I feel the same way. When something like this happens, I get inflamed and hope for the death penalty, then after my emotions are through flaming, I don’t want even this horrible person put to death in my name.
mike in dc
So long as we have a death penalty, he certainly qualifies for it. BUT, I do not want to create any martyrs for such a sick and despicable cause.
Bill
@SiubhanDuinne: This.
Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism
Arrests at the NC Legislature.
mai naem mobile
I am surprised some white juror didn’t find him not guilty because churching while black scared Roof. You know self defense and all.
bago
I’d rather he be alive to watch society become incredibly multicultural.
SiubhanDuinne
@bago:
That would indeed be justice.
scottinnj
Shows you can convict a white guy for killing black people as long as they aren’t wearing a badge.
Francis
Does anybody know the wait time between sentencing and execution in South Carolina?
tybee
@Francis: for blacks or for whites?
JPL
BTW, The Sheriff said Obama’s birth certificate was a forgery. He copied and pasted from someone else. I’m sure Fox will cover the breaking news.
hovercraft
@Mnemosyne:
The fact that we were afraid he would get off, says so much.
I guess there was no way to claim that a prayer group, in a church that he entered of his own volition made him fear for his life.
MomSense
I’m relieved that he was found guilty and hope he gets multiple life sentences in prison.
Cacti
@JPL:
The best punishment I could think of for Sheriff Joke is to force him to watch a line of Hispanic Americans hug his grandchildren until he rage stroked or died from racist disgust.
SiubhanDuinne
@JPL:
trollhattan
@Francis:
This was federal court IIRC.
Gvg
Did anyone laugh to his face when he made that announcement. I haven’t felt like laughing since the election but I think I would of had I been there at the time. It’s what he deserves, and he so clearly wants attention.
hovercraft
@scottinnj:
While we know George Zimmerman is half hispanic, he was given honorary white status because of the service he performed, the killer of Jordan Davis I believe was convicted of killing him. Yes I just checked, he got Life, plus 90 years.
So it is very rare, but it is possible. The part about the badge especially.
Francis
@trollhattan: yeah I just re-read the post. It’s been one of those brain-lock days (weeks).
So, to rephrase, does anyone know the timeline between sentencing and execution in a federal case in the 4th Circuit, when there’s a state proceeding yet to occur?
HeleninEire
Changing my nym. Used to be just plain Helen. Suppose I’ll be in moderation for a while. But here I am. Helen who is living her dream. HeleninEire. Nice to meet you all.
laura
I cannot understand how the killer came to have such a malevolent heart. I do not understand the depth of such irrational hatred.
I hope that he does not get a death penalty and wonder what and how he may come to understand his depravity and seek some kind of redemption.
hovercraft
@MomSense:
As young as he is serving nine life sentences with no possibility of parole, watching from prison as the thing he was trying to stop happens anyway, ( even with setbacks like 11/8, they will come), will be more agonizing for him.
Jeffro
BREAKING (maybe): PBO to give a press conference tomorrow about Russian election hacking … trying to confirm …
Bobby D
Put him in general-population in the joint and he’s probably dead within a week regardless of his sentence.
Jeffro
@Jeffro: 2:15 ET
Jeffro
Which is the better metaphor: drawing to an inside straight, or throwing a hail Mary?
COME ON EC!!!
SiubhanDuinne
@Jeffro:
@Jeffro:
Thanks! Noted in my calendar.
I hope Adam or Betty or someone will front-page it; I suspect there’ll be a fair amount of discussion in these parts, and it’s bound to need its own thread.
Ripley (Whiskey Fire version)
Reddit calls him ‘alt-right’
Finally!
tybee
the only thing that will save us from 4 years of the Dumpster oligarchy is pinning collusion with the rooskies to the entire republican leadership.
and O ain’t gonna do that.
Major Major Major Major
What a relief, and how disgusting it is that we live in such a world that this feels like a relief.
Mary G
The president gave a lovely pre-Hanukkah speech today. They will be using a menorah in the White House that Elie Wiesel’s granddaughter made in kindergarten.
Next year: Merry Christmas, everybody!
Lyrebird
@SiubhanDuinne: Yeah. I have such respect for the Will Farrell/conservative-judge duo that have done a bunch of campaigning against the death penalty. Conservative (the real kind I think) judge thinks state killing might be moral but it’s too costly, and (I think above all) he’s seen too many families of e.g. murder victims suffer more as they get dragged through every appeal than he thinks they would be with life sentence/no parole decisions.
SIGH. I’ll say another prayer for those murdered in this awful mess, and remind myself that the advertisers on football games and so forth sure seem to be advertising to Hillary’s America and not the Republican candidate’s.
LAC
I do not give a shit about him or his soul. He needs to spend every day in terror of his life. Like those sweet souls he gunned down. Fuck him.
steve herl
As a good left wing anti death penalty liberal, I got to ask why is this scumbag still alive over a year after the shooting. He should have been put down like a rabid dog as soon as he confessed. Instead we have another 10 to 15 years of updates on his appeals.
Jeffro
@tybee: He’ll walk everyone through the whole issue – hacks to Wikileaks to Trumpkin/Russia connections and sympathies – and then leave it in the hands of the electors. Still respecting the process (and I can’t decide right now if that’s fortunate or unfortunate)
Quotes in advance:
“We became aware of Russian hacking back in…”
“It seemed likely that the hacking was designed to cause chaos at a minimum (and we acted to halt that) and/or possibly to benefit the Trump campaign in the long run…subsequent intelligence has show that it was the latter…”
“We’ve been made aware of payments made to Carter Page and Paul Manafort by the Russian government and its allies…”
“You’ll remember that the only plank in the entire, standard, GOP platform that was changed by the Trump team was the one about not arming Ukraine…”
“Many other Western intelligence agencies have passed along information about Russia’s involvement…some of which was alluded to in a mid-October Newsweek piece by Kurt Eichenwald…”
“There are questions remaining to be answered in full…and there’s no reason why the Congress can’t conduct an expedited investigation of all the facts surrounding Russia’s involvement in our election…or why it can’t ask the Electoral College voters to hold off for another two weeks while that investigation is completed and fully shared with the Electors and the American public…”
lgerard
“a self-radicalized young white supremacist”
I don’t think so
RobertDSC-Mac Mini
Comrade Orange will pardon him on January 21.
Jeffro
Jeffro
Btw this is from June…Crowley’s been named Deputy National Security adviser by Trump?
Yarrow
@Jeffro: Friday afternoon! All the good stuff breaks on Friday afternoons this year.
debbie
Can we toss the NC General Assembly into Roof’s cell and lose the key?
Major Major Major Major
It is a little crazy how they’re handing out hate crime convictions just for being economically anxious.
gogol's wife
@Jeffro:
Whoo-hoo!
LAC
@Jeffro: gosh. You are making it seem like the president was putting some thought in this and not just shooting off at the mouth. Stop… :)
Hungry Joe
Bill of Rights says something about not inflicting cruel or unusual punishment, and I’ve never understood how killing someone isn’t cruel. You can argue that lethal injection is less cruel than electrocution or burning at the stake, but that it’s NOT CRUEL? I don’t think you can argue that with a straight face. That is to say, without a sneer of … cruelty.
And I don’t care what someone has done. Seriously. I don’t. We, the people … we, who comprise the State, simply do not have the right to execute anyone.
Helen
Oh Hi Adam. Can you pull me outta moderation up there at #23ish. I’ll go right back to the new nym if you do. Thanks.
Adam L Silverman
@HeleninEire: Good thing you didn’t move to Wales. HelenWales is just a little too over the top.
dr. bloor
@Adam L Silverman: All week, try the waitress, tip the veal, etc., etc.
Major Major Major Major
@Jeffro: sweet.
Interesting times, interesting times.
SiubhanDuinne
@Jeffro:
Wow.
SiubhanDuinne
@Hungry Joe:
Yup. What you said, all of it.
Yarrow
@Jeffro: Wow. That is amazing. The White House isn’t messing around. Bring it, Barack!
Adam L Silverman
@Helen: Already done. Was having dinner when it got put in limbo.
HeleninEire
@Adam L Silverman: Thank you, darling.
SiubhanDuinne
@Yarrow:
I hope he does. I really hope so.
Mnemosyne
@bago:
This. The best punishment is to make him sit in his cell watching the world pass him by. And making sure that he is forgotten while his victims are remembered.
Shalimar
@Jeffro: That makes me wonder if the CIA doesn’t have some evidence that the Trump campaign was directly communicating with the Russians. President Obama has been helping with the transition up until now, and “Trump refuses to accept reality on X” hasn’t been a hinderance to that the thousand other times it has happened.
dexwood
Any truth to the rumor that Trump’s Secret Service code name is Agent Orange?
HeleninEire
@Adam L Silverman:
Ba Dum Dum!!!
Major Major Major Major
@Shalimar: NPR had a headline in the car today that Putin was “personally involved” in the hacking. Things seem to be escalating quickly.
My coworker said “I never pegged him as a script kiddie.”
I said “well, you know how it is these days. Putin probably just copy-pasted from Stack Overflow.”
JPL
@SiubhanDuinne: Well no shit.. about time.
SFBayAreaGal
@Mary G: Damn, got something in my eye that’s causing me to tear up. I’m going to miss this man so much.
Hill Dweller
When Josh Earnest all but said Trump was in on the Russian hacking during yesterday’s press briefing, I thought the WH had decided to stop being so accommodating to Trump and/or his people. FWIW, CBS is reporting the Russian hackers penetrated the Pentagon and Joint Chiefs of Staff.
Adam L Silverman
@Hill Dweller: We have long had a counterintelligence problem. Its not that the people who are in the trenches, so to speak, doing the work don’t do a good job or take it seriously. They do. Its that all too often because its run silent, run deep type of work its lost in the shuffle for senior leaders, including Presidents going back several decades. This didn’t happen out of the blue, it wasn’t a spur of the moment type of thing by Russia.
While I’m not a big fan of his views on domestic politics, this piece by former NSA counterintelligence officer John Schindler is quite good despite his clear ideological preferences.
http://observer.com/2016/12/understanding-russias-spywar-against-our-election/#pq=Od668O
Miss Bianca
@HeleninEire: almost hate to say it, what with feeling like I have to hunker down, stay here, and help save this country from its wretched self, but you’re living my dream too!
Yup, had it all mapped out – green rolling hills, Irish sport horses, and making mead for medieval festivals in the ROI sounds like paradise to me!
BillinGlendaleCA
NBC Headline: “Why didn’t Obama do more about Russian Hacks.”
Lizzy L
@BillinGlendaleCA: FFS. I hate them.
HeleninEire
@Miss Bianca: Come visit. Really. Identify yourself as a Balloon Juicer and I will welcome you. You may want to stay. It is as beautiful as you think it is. And more beautiful than the pictures.
Adam L Silverman
@HeleninEire: And has hot and cold running Guinness.
Yarrow
@HeleninEire: Are you in Dublin?
Elizabelle
Good evening, all.
Haven’t read comments yet, but I hope Dylann Roof does NOT get the death penalty. He is so young. Show some mercy, even though he did not.
I think the families, and the late Clemente Pinckney, would prefer mercy.
Prosecutors are another matter.
dexwood
@BillinGlendaleCA:
Charlie Rose said today this all happened “on Obama’s watch”. So, we’re back to Thanks Obama. Lying bastards.
Major Major Major Major
@dexwood: but Bush kept us safe.
amygdala
@Major Major Major Major: This, times a bazillion. I would have been more outraged than surprised if it had been a mistrial.
Yarrow
@dexwood: Of course this is going to be the Republican line. I don’t think it’ll work as well as they hope, but they’ll give it all they’ve got.
Miss Bianca
@Adam L Silverman: He seems to be judging President Obama rather harshly. Is this just pure partisanship, or is there some vaildity to his criticism?
Adam L Silverman
@Miss Bianca: Its a combination. He’s a former NSA officer who worked in CI. From what I can gather he feels that this has been paid far too little attention for decades. He also is politically opposed to President Obama, doesn’t like him, thinks he’s been terrible, etc. So I think the two have blended together in his column on this. There’s some very good information in there, but its nestled in or wrapped around his own biases. It is what it is.
That said, and as much as I think President Obama is a deeper strategic thinker than he’s often given credit for, I do think his preference to be non-confrontational has sometimes caused more problems than its resolved. Both fordomestic policy and in terms of national security, defense, and foreign policy. I am on record, both in an unclassified cultural operations report I did and in several posts where I used to hang my Internet hat about why responding to the alleged Syrian usage of chemical weapons – the red line violation – should not lead to a US response as the information was far too thinly sourced, the evidence was far from conclusive, etc. So allowing Putin to have an international diplomacy win, make it so that Russia looks important and can be an important partner even if we’re in disagreement with them in other places, made sense. Unfortunately this, and several similar responses, seem to have only emboldened Putin. I think part of this is that, to a certain extent, neither Obama really understands Putin nor Putin really understands Obama. Regardless of how its happened, I think that our responses to what Putin has been doing has often been too little too late. And I have no special knowledge here, just what has been reported in the news.
Mnemosyne
@Adam L Silverman:
True story: when my (now sadly late) father-in-law visited Ireland, he ordered a Harp when he was a pub. The bartender’s response was, “Harp? That’s what you piss after you drink Guinness!”
Miss Bianca
@Adam L Silverman: Adam, why *aren’t* State Department, etc. emails better encrypted? I mean, it’s a pain in the ass to set up and share keys in a safe manner to prevent “man in the middle” attacks, but given the stakes…
rikyrah
Put the needle in him. Fry him. Matters not to me. He needs to not be on this Earth.
Jeffro
@Elizabelle: this is one of those things I have never been able to quite come around to…heinous crime, witnesses, a confession, physical evidence… let’s send him on his way the way he sent nine people on theirs.
Major Major Major Major
@Miss Bianca: I don’t think they’re even encrypted much at all, are they?
And it’s not that hard. Why, somebody could even write a guest post about it.
Jeffro
@Shalimar: they almost certainly can prove that Carter page and Paul Manafort not only have been in communications with, but have been getting paid by, the Russian government and its associated oil oligarchs. And even if Obama doesn’t bring it up tomorrow there will be plenty of evidence about the mountain of debt that Trump owes to Russian bankers…
Adam L Silverman
@Miss Bianca: @Major Major Major Major: They are, but… Here’s the basics: we have three different types of government internet – including email. One at the unclassified level. One at the secret level. And one at the Top Secret level. Each of them is walled off from the other. And the two classified systems have far greater and increased limits on access, as well as increased security protocols for accessing them. What has been hacked, or in some cases more accurately spearfished, was all on the unclassified systems and emails. I’ve never seen anything reported indicating that the two classified systems have ever been hacked or breached. Except by an insider that had access: Chelsea Manning, Edward Snowden, Harold Martin (the BAH contractor at NSA they arrested this past August), Sandy Berger, etc. And these really weren’t hacks, they were individuals with approved access to the system who accessed it specifically to steal information they were not authorized to have and then make that information available either to everyone or to our enemies – though in Martin’s case it still hasn’t been reported what, if anything, he was planning on doing with what he had stolen.
Adam L Silverman
@Jeffro: And Roger Stone has publicly admitted he was in contact with Wikileaks, which we know is a Russian front.
Major Major Major Major
@Adam L Silverman: ok, I was thinking of unclassified stuff, internals and ‘diplomatic pouch’ type communications. I did presume the secret stuff is encrypted because duh.
MomSense
@dexwood:
Ha! That’s what I’ve been calling him-once Boehner exited the scene.
Adam L Silverman
@Major Major Major Major: Diplomatic pouches are classified sui generis. No access except those who need to have it and need to know. Sent by special diplomatic courier.
Miss Bianca
@Adam L Silverman: Ah! thanks for that clarification.
Major Major Major Major
@Adam L Silverman: yes, having googled it I obviously meant the exact opposite.
Using the diplomatic pouch is a completely opaque indication that something was sent, not a presumed transparent transmission.
Adam L Silverman
@Major Major Major Major: Yep.
Major Major Major Major
@Adam L Silverman: been a few years since I spent much time thinking about Alice and Bob.
Adam L Silverman
@Major Major Major Major: Would it kill you to put in a bit more of an effort from time to time?//
Steve in the ATL
@Adam L Silverman:
I thought the Irish prayer was “May your Guinness never be cold!”
The Moar You Know
While I think the verdict is just, the process wasn’t – the judge has and is allowing this jackoff to commit suicide by jury. The decision to allow him to represent himself during sentencing is indefensible.
He wants very much to be a martyr. I’d really like to not see that happen.
Adam L Silverman
@Steve in the ATL: Stout is served chilled. Cask conditioned ale is served at room temperature.
Steve in the ATL
@Adam L Silverman: You are generally reliable, but I want an on-the-ground report from Helen on this critical issue
Adam L Silverman
@Steve in the ATL: I have a picture of me pouring a pint at the Guinness Brewery in Dublin if that helps my bona fides.
JanieM
I would like to know where he gets off talking about “our” women. Just another type of inferior creature that he can talk about as if we’re his property, I guess.
waysel
@Jeffro: Yes. To you and rikyrah. He deserves to be ended.
Miss Bianca
@Adam L Silverman: Chilled, perhaps, but certainly not cold, which is how most American bars serve it.
Adam L Silverman
@Miss Bianca: I typed chilled, right? You can see it there in my comment?
Mnemosyne
@The Moar You Know:
Seconded. Let him hang himself in his cell if he wants to be a martyr. Don’t do the job for him.
SWMBO
My FIL was murdered in October 1997. They caught his killers in February 1998. In Arkansas in a capital murder, there are two sentencing options: life without parole or execution. The two people were tried separately. Before and during the trial, I was “try ’em, fry ’em, forget ’em” Time passed. Tempers cooled. They both got Life. They have to spend the rest of their lives in the general prison population. In any jail in Arkansas. This is not as easy as it sounds. I am sort of glad they weren’t executed. I am still ambivalent but I currently think that mercy can also serve justice.
Miss Bianca
@Adam L Silverman: I actually prefer to drink stout perilously close to room temperature. Despise me if you dare.
Mark C
@mike in dc: Agree, and given that he’s 22, I think life (+/- 70 years) is a more harsh punishment (as long as the shitgibbon doesn’t pardon him and appoint him as head of the DOJ Civil Rights Division).