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You are here: Home / Pet Blogging / Dog Blogging / Friday Morning Open Thread: Not Getting Into the Holiday Spirit

Friday Morning Open Thread: Not Getting Into the Holiday Spirit

by Anne Laurie|  December 16, 20165:32 am| 172 Comments

This post is in: Dog Blogging, Enhanced Protest Techniques, Excellent Links, Open Threads, Proud to Be A Democrat

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marvel-2016-xmas-sally-and-lotto

From wise garden commentor Marvel:

Here’s my gal Sal (in red antlers) and her old friend Lotto (under the tree). I know they don’t look happy here, but you’d be surprised: after this snapshot, they downed a cup of souped-up eggnog and went out caroling.

OK, maybe they didn’t. Truth: Sally shook her antlers off, then helped Lotto off with his hat.

What’s on the agenda as we wrap up another hectic-to-hellish week?

***********
One of the first things I learned about living with rescue animals who’d been abused or neglected: Overenthusiastic displays of friendliness scare them. Sometimes, you just have to go on with your daily routine, and let them come to you.

Therefore, I fully endorse Sam Bee’s message to Democrats hoping to persuade WWC voters:

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Previous Post: « Early Morning Open Thread: “Obama Says U.S. Will Retaliate for Russia’s Election Meddling”
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Reader Interactions

172Comments

  1. 1.

    rikyrah

    December 16, 2016 at 5:37 am

    Morning, Everyone ???

  2. 2.

    rikyrah

    December 16, 2016 at 5:38 am

    The dogs crack me up. They tolerate the costume because you feed them.???

  3. 3.

    satby

    December 16, 2016 at 5:44 am

    @rikyrah: Morning rikyrah and everyone else.

    Love the sad doggy expressions! Sal is adorable with her little pigeon toes.

  4. 4.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    December 16, 2016 at 5:47 am

    @rikyrah: Oh, that’s how you get them to wear them. I’ll have to try that with my girls.

    That Sam Bee clip is on point, maybe some of our “Progressive Betters” can watch and learn.

  5. 5.

    OzarkHillbilly

    December 16, 2016 at 5:49 am

    I luvs me some Sam Bee in the morning.

    As for being lost in the wilderness, I gotta say as someone who has spent a lot of time in actual wildernesses, I have never been lost. I always knew exactly where I was.

    Right….

    Here.

  6. 6.

    raven

    December 16, 2016 at 5:50 am

    Not Lil Bit, she got dumped in a box at our vet but she’s been a love bug since day one!

  7. 7.

    Zinsky

    December 16, 2016 at 5:50 am

    Samantha’s video is great and she is right! Until we stop letting these shitbag Republicans define who we are and what we believe, we are going to lose elections to these intellectual midgets. This “identity politics” meme is utter horseshit, like every other bit of verbal diarrhea coming out of the mouth of these un-American morons. Trump is the worst president in American history and we need to relentlessly remind the American people of that.

  8. 8.

    Mustang Bobby

    December 16, 2016 at 5:58 am

    Dogs love us until we make them act like us. Then they go right back to licking their naughty bits.

  9. 9.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    December 16, 2016 at 6:03 am

    @Mustang Bobby: You do know the reason we don’t lick our naughty bits? The vast majority of us can’t physically do it.

    ETA: The rain’s coming down pretty good here, 0.86 inches since midnight(in addition to about 3/4 an inch last night).

  10. 10.

    OzarkHillbilly

    December 16, 2016 at 6:08 am

    @raven: The Woofmeister has been a luvbug since day one, to the point of clinginess at times.

  11. 11.

    Phylllis

    December 16, 2016 at 6:11 am

    Looking forward to the start of Winter break about midday and the next 16 days off. Seems like such a long time on the front end, but also seems to speed by mighty quick.

  12. 12.

    NotMax

    December 16, 2016 at 6:17 am

    Speaking of animals and the holiday season, coming up on TCM at 7:30 a.m. (Eastern time) this Sunday is The Great Rupert.

    Second tier fare but nevertheless a charming little flick featuring top billed Jimmy Durante effectively tamping down his usual cinematic mania as well as some of George Pal’s best close-up FX work. For those who have younger children, they will love Rupert the squirrel.

    There’s a colorized version on DVD (retitled as A Christmas Wish.)

  13. 13.

    satby

    December 16, 2016 at 6:17 am

    @Phylllis: I start working afternoons instead of mornings next week, and then because Christmas is on Sunday and we’re also off Christmas eve I have six days in a row off! If it’s not freezing out, I plan to clear enough stuff out of boxes in the garage and put it away so that I don’t feel like I’m constantly looking for a stray utensil in the middle of food prep.

  14. 14.

    tybee

    December 16, 2016 at 6:20 am

    i just want to say: fuck jack kingston.

    i’m sorry i ever voted for the bastard back when he first got started in politics.

  15. 15.

    Mustang Bobby

    December 16, 2016 at 6:20 am

    @BillinGlendaleCA: What’s the status of the drought in California?

  16. 16.

    raven

    December 16, 2016 at 6:24 am

    @tybee: A lowlife if ever there was one.

  17. 17.

    JPL

    December 16, 2016 at 6:25 am

    @tybee: He’s just a common guy, who drives around in his station wagon. lol
    At least Perdue was honest about who he was.

  18. 18.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    December 16, 2016 at 6:31 am

    @Mustang Bobby: Still with us, but the last 2 years should help. Northern CA had a pretty wet year last year, but it was still pretty dry here in the south. We do get a lot of our water locally, so rain down here’s important(also means we don’t have to water in the winter).

  19. 19.

    p.a.

    December 16, 2016 at 6:33 am

    What’s a Deep State to do when your Boss of All Bosses is your most compromised client? Probably willingly compromised.

  20. 20.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    December 16, 2016 at 6:35 am

    I mentioned that I ordered a new tablet to replace my old, dead Note 8. So I got shipping notification from Costco and checked the link and UPS said it was delivered. Only problem, the shipping date was 12/15/2016 and the delivery date was 11/30/2015. It seems that UPS is reusing their tracking numbers, a hour or two later it updates with a delivery date of today, though it still has the 2015 date in the tracking.

  21. 21.

    kindness

    December 16, 2016 at 6:41 am

    I’m praying for ‘Faithless Electors’. They are my only hope at this point.

  22. 22.

    Butch

    December 16, 2016 at 6:48 am

    We bought moose horns for our three dogs. I expect they will not be happy.

  23. 23.

    Baud

    December 16, 2016 at 6:51 am

    Much like me, dogs prefer to be unclothed.

  24. 24.

    OzarkHillbilly

    December 16, 2016 at 6:53 am

    @Mustang Bobby: @BillinGlendaleCA:

    Ifn’s you guys is interested, NOAA’s North American Drought Monitor.

    Also the Climate Prediction Center can be handy too.

  25. 25.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    December 16, 2016 at 6:55 am

    @Baud: You’ve never met my Nikki, she loves her sweater.

  26. 26.

    NotMax

    December 16, 2016 at 6:56 am

    @kindness

    Inconceivable that there will be enough to alter the outcome. Would require 37 of them to throw the decision to the House.

  27. 27.

    OzarkHillbilly

    December 16, 2016 at 6:57 am

    @Baud: I like to garden naked. The UPS driver has been warned.

  28. 28.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    December 16, 2016 at 7:01 am

    @OzarkHillbilly: One of my former neighbors(we share a front yard) had a boxer. Friendliest dog in the world, just big and mean looking. One day the UPS guy came in though the gate to make a delivery and was just walkin’ along all happy, until he sees Duke walking up to say hi. He dropped the package and hightailed it out of the yard.

    ETA: Up to 1.12 inches of rain since midnight.

  29. 29.

    OzarkHillbilly

    December 16, 2016 at 7:02 am

    @NotMax: And what came out of the House would in all likelihood be far more competent than Trump which would be far worse for us.

  30. 30.

    NotMax

    December 16, 2016 at 7:03 am

    Okay, howzabout a moose decked out for Xmas (last pic at the linked page)?

  31. 31.

    Baud

    December 16, 2016 at 7:05 am

    @BillinGlendaleCA: Did Duke do one of those head tilts?

    @OzarkHillbilly: The House wouldn’t run away from Trump. And I would choose sane over Trump at this point.

  32. 32.

    p.a.

    December 16, 2016 at 7:05 am

    @BillinGlendaleCA: I worked with a guy at New England Tel who had 8 dogbites in his record (meaning broken skin, not just nipped hem). I asked him if he used hamburger as an aftershave.

  33. 33.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    December 16, 2016 at 7:06 am

    @OzarkHillbilly: Not sure, it’d be more like being killed by poison(the House) or by gunshot(Trump).

  34. 34.

    Kay

    December 16, 2016 at 7:09 am

    The public needs much more information on the Russian hacking.

    The first thing they need is a complete list of which House elections were targeted so we’ll know the names and districts of the House members who were elected with Russian government assistance. They really have a right to know if their representative is part of this BEFORE they start voting on Trump’s agenda. They also need to know about Senate races. It seems unlikely that the Russian government was carefully choosing swing House districts and not choosing Senate races.

    This is much bigger than Trump. We have a one Party far Right government and we’re talking about two branches that are compromised. The extent of the meddling in Congressional races is arguably more of a threat than Trump.

  35. 35.

    OzarkHillbilly

    December 16, 2016 at 7:11 am

    @BillinGlendaleCA: Woofmeister gets his hackles up barking like crazy and acting like he wants to rip off somebodies gonads. In truth he’s just so happy and excited that the UPS guy came all this way just to see him. Also he gets to smell what other dogs he has visited with that day. I swear their all on a first scent basis.

  36. 36.

    rikyrah

    December 16, 2016 at 7:14 am

    @Kay:
    You are on point again, Kay.

  37. 37.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    December 16, 2016 at 7:17 am

    @OzarkHillbilly: That’s the way Nikki is; then again, Nikki is a Cocker Spaniel so she doesn’t look too threatening.

  38. 38.

    Kay

    December 16, 2016 at 7:17 am

    If the information we have so far is accurate, the Russian government wanted (and got) more than Trump- they got the Congress they wanted too- to a greater or lesser extent- we don’t know. The public needs the names of which congressional members were aided by this because Congress will be doing the investigating. We need a list immediately. They can’t investigate themselves.

  39. 39.

    Patricia Kayden

    December 16, 2016 at 7:18 am

    @Baud: O-o. That’s not very presidential. You’re already damaging your 2020 presidential run.

  40. 40.

    Patricia Kayden

    December 16, 2016 at 7:21 am

    @Kay: You’re right about the Russian hacking going beyond Trump.

  41. 41.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    December 16, 2016 at 7:21 am

    @Patricia Kayden: Baud!2020! is not an establishment politician, and the lack of clothing is proof!

  42. 42.

    Kay

    December 16, 2016 at 7:23 am

    @rikyrah:

    The FBI likes email investigations. Let’s see the emails of the GOP House candidates who ran against the Dem candidates who were hacked. It’s bizarre that the public has one side of this- they have what the victims said. There’s another side. Sitting GOP House members won those races. They’ll be voting on laws. Maybe Senators too. We don’t know.

  43. 43.

    Baud

    December 16, 2016 at 7:24 am

    @Patricia Kayden: Maybe I should assault some women so I appear more presidential.

  44. 44.

    OzarkHillbilly

    December 16, 2016 at 7:25 am

    @Baud: I’d be afraid they’d install Ryan. He appears to be sane, is definitely competent, a complete ideologue and as evil as Satan. Ryan understands the egos in DC far better than Trump ever will and knows far better how to get what he wants out of them.

    To me Trump is scary, Ryan is absolutely terrifying. YMMV.

  45. 45.

    rikyrah

    December 16, 2016 at 7:26 am

    @Kay:
    That is right.

  46. 46.

    Baud

    December 16, 2016 at 7:27 am

    @OzarkHillbilly: At this point I’m more concerned about foreign issues and people in other nations than domestic difficulties. We had our chance to avoid the wreck.

  47. 47.

    gogol's wife

    December 16, 2016 at 7:30 am

    @Baud:

    I’m with you. I find Ryan much less scary — he’s sane (if evil), and he’s uncharismatic so the Hitler factor goes way down.

  48. 48.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    December 16, 2016 at 7:34 am

    @Baud: I agree, look at the ShitGibbon’s reaction to a negative review of the restaurant in his gilded tower.

  49. 49.

    Phylllis

    December 16, 2016 at 7:37 am

    @NotMax: That’s a terrific little movie. Thanks for the heads up.

  50. 50.

    OzarkHillbilly

    December 16, 2016 at 7:38 am

    @Baud: The threat of nuclear holocaust is definitely higher with Trump.

  51. 51.

    Phylllis

    December 16, 2016 at 7:38 am

    @satby: Oh yeah, this break is for ruthlessly cleaning out dressers and closets.

  52. 52.

    Betty Cracker

    December 16, 2016 at 7:38 am

    @Kay: Josh Earnest has taken a hard line on the Trump horde’s Russian hacking denialism. I don’t think he would do so unless directed to by PBO. That gives me some hope that the current admin will do all it can to expose the extent of Russian involvement.

  53. 53.

    Patricia Kayden

    December 16, 2016 at 7:41 am

    @OzarkHillbilly: I agree with your assessment that Ryan is terrifying. Ryan is the one who wants to strangle Granny and throw her over the cliff. Trump is just a means to that end.

  54. 54.

    Kay

    December 16, 2016 at 7:41 am

    @rikyrah:

    People should know so at the very least they can watch how they vote. You could have a situation where Congress is voting on a Trump initiative or policy or action and it passes based solely on the votes of members who were part of this.

    Also- the Senate races were just miraculously unsullied? Really? They wanted Trump and they wanted a lock-step GOP House but they were unconcerned about a possible D Senate? That doesn’t make sense.

  55. 55.

    Baud

    December 16, 2016 at 7:45 am

    @Patricia Kayden: Grannies voted for Trump.

  56. 56.

    rikyrah

    December 16, 2016 at 7:46 am

    @Kay:
    Makes no sense at all. Wondering about PA, FL and WI

  57. 57.

    Iowa Old Lady

    December 16, 2016 at 7:46 am

    You can bid on a coffee date with Ivanka. Too on the nose?

    Money does go to charity, or so they claim.

  58. 58.

    Kay

    December 16, 2016 at 7:47 am

    @Betty Cracker:

    I’m interested in the middle part, too. The House info was supposedly released using blogs- so that’s “public”. Russian government to bloggers. But what if there were other channels that were not “public”? What if they passed info directly to GOP campaigns (or more likely, PACs) and those PAC’s or campaigns used it and their opponent never knew? We don’t know the extent of this as far as Congress. We have only the statements of House members who knew they were victims.

  59. 59.

    Kay

    December 16, 2016 at 7:52 am

    @Iowa Old Lady:

    Ivanka and her husband will overreach until someone stops them. They’re getting around nepotism laws with her proposed “Office of the First Family”. Sleazy Conway is out on cable explaining how the Trump Family have found a loophole in nepotism laws. Conway announced those laws were intended to apply only to Cabinet members.

    Ivanaka and her husband are ENTITLED to a job in the US government and they will get one. It’s amusing to me how media are still insisting that at some point the Trumps will recognize boundaries. No, they won’t. Rules don’t apply to them.

  60. 60.

    Baud

    December 16, 2016 at 7:57 am

    @Kay: Two for the price of one, Kay.

  61. 61.

    Kay

    December 16, 2016 at 8:00 am

    @Iowa Old Lady:

    Remember, too, every norm or rule the Trumps ignore, get around or violate? That’s the new rule for everyone who comes after them. If Trump hires his daughter and son in law but doesn’t pay them a federal salary (that’s what they’re looking at to avoid the nepotism law) everyone who comes after him will do the same thing.

    Since the only people who afford to live on no salary are wealthy people, we;ll have exclusively wealthy lawmakers installing their offspring, which is just the cherry on top of this sleaze.

  62. 62.

    rikyrah

    December 16, 2016 at 8:01 am

    @Kay:
    His father is in jail. NO WAY he could pass muster for a security clearance.

  63. 63.

    Kay

    December 16, 2016 at 8:03 am

    @Baud:

    That’s what the Politico reporter meant with that Tweet. The nepotism law doesn’t apply to the spouse of the President, obviously- it can’t or we wouldn’t have a first lady or gentleman. That’s what Trump is getting around and that’s why the Clintons aren’t comparable. She was saying that unless Ivanka is Trump’s wife they’re breaking this law.

  64. 64.

    Baud

    December 16, 2016 at 8:06 am

    @Kay: I didn’t see the tweet. I just remember how outraged the right was when Hillary didn’t take on a traditional First Lady role.

  65. 65.

    Kay

    December 16, 2016 at 8:08 am

    @rikyrah:

    Trump will jam them in. It’s a done deal. Trump hasn’t done a stand-alone press conference because he has to be surrounded by his celebrity posse or his adoring crowds. Did you see where they seated the kids at the tech conference? At the head of the table. Un-fucking believable. They will overreach until they’re stopped by a rule or a law or a subpeona or a court. It’s what they are.

  66. 66.

    Elizabelle

    December 16, 2016 at 8:09 am

    Those dogs aren’t feeling it in their holiday attire, but they sure are cute.

    Good holiday season morning and TGIF.

  67. 67.

    Baud

    December 16, 2016 at 8:10 am

    @Kay: Maybe it’s time to start saying Trump is scared and insecure.

  68. 68.

    Kay

    December 16, 2016 at 8:10 am

    @Baud:

    Obviously she sort of overshadowed her own point with that Tweet but that WAS the point. There IS a nepotism rule and it’s followed. Conway is sleazing her way out of it with the help of the cable millionaires but it exists.

  69. 69.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    December 16, 2016 at 8:11 am

    @Kay: We’ve had other people perform the duties of First Lady, but in those cases the President wasn’t married at the time. This is unprecedented.

  70. 70.

    Elizabelle

    December 16, 2016 at 8:14 am

    Any chances of delaying the Electoral College vote? We have possibly criminal activity here.

    Getting it right is more important than the timetable. Trump is wholly unsuited for office.

  71. 71.

    Baud

    December 16, 2016 at 8:14 am

    When I’m president, my dog will be my First Lady.

  72. 72.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    December 16, 2016 at 8:16 am

    @Baud: That gives a whole new meaning to “barking orders”.

  73. 73.

    Kay

    December 16, 2016 at 8:17 am

    @Baud:

    Also. It should be noted. I have heard at least 20 regular people speculate on Trump’s relationship with his daughter. The fact is what they have done IN PUBLIC is odd. If he wants to take insanely inappropriate photos with his daughter, say gross things about her on radio shows and grope her at a national convention he can BE that maverick but they have to admit this is not the norm and people know it. Everyone doesn’t act like that with their daughter. 99.9% of people don’t. Trump’s a big fan of saying what people are REALLY thinking. That’s what people are thinking. The Politico reporter is pretty damn close to “Main Street” with that Tweet.

  74. 74.

    OzarkHillbilly

    December 16, 2016 at 8:18 am

    @Elizabelle: Unfortunately, “suited for office” is not among the qualifications necessary for becoming President listed in the Constitution.

  75. 75.

    debbie

    December 16, 2016 at 8:18 am

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    Or, if I am in a wilderness, it’s one I’m proud to be in.

  76. 76.

    Baud

    December 16, 2016 at 8:19 am

    @Kay:

    I have heard at least 20 regular people speculate on Trump’s relationship with his daughter.

    How many of them voted for the predator?

  77. 77.

    Baud

    December 16, 2016 at 8:20 am

    @debbie: Same here.

  78. 78.

    Kay

    December 16, 2016 at 8:20 am

    @BillinGlendaleCA:

    And who are we kidding with this? It isn’t about a stand in for the First Lady. Ivanka and her husband want a role so they invented one and they did it to get around laws. Conway is out on cable explaining how they’re busily finding loopholes. Trump has announced they’re finding loopholes. The sleaze has just begun. Wait until they’re actually in power.

  79. 79.

    Pogonip

    December 16, 2016 at 8:24 am

    @Patricia Kayden: Baud 2020: The Candidate Who Proves He Has Nothing To Hide.

  80. 80.

    Betty Cracker

    December 16, 2016 at 8:24 am

    @OzarkHillbilly: Yes, but it is a criteria that the EC can apply — they supposedly exist to prevent an unsuitable demagogue from assuming office. Not that it will matter. The EC is mostly populated by partisan hacks, and they will certify Trump.

  81. 81.

    Baud

    December 16, 2016 at 8:25 am

    @Pogonip: My administration will be fully transparent.

  82. 82.

    Kay

    December 16, 2016 at 8:26 am

    @Baud:

    They’re Democrats so “none of them”. They’re not raving maniacs though. These are regular people. This is not normal in their experience. It’s not normal in mine either. I have hundreds of photographs with my husband and grown daughter. None of them look remotely like that Trump photo. Come on. If you were at some public event and there was a guy groping his grown daughter on stage there would be comments about that! I can say I have never seen that before at any public event I have ever attended.

  83. 83.

    debbie

    December 16, 2016 at 8:28 am

    @Kay:

    And if names are named, impeachment hearings must be opened immediately.

  84. 84.

    Baud

    December 16, 2016 at 8:30 am

    @Kay:

    They’re not raving maniacs though. These are regular people

    What are you trying to say about us, Kay?

    Trump is awful, but he was awful in all these ways before the election. If people need to tell themselves they didn’t know in order to join us in fighting him, so be it.

  85. 85.

    debit

    December 16, 2016 at 8:34 am

    I woke up and those two adorable dogs are the first thing I saw when I checked the internet. I’m going to call it a win and not look at anything else online for the day.

  86. 86.

    debbie

    December 16, 2016 at 8:34 am

    @Kay:

    Where the fuck in the Constitution is anything about an “Office of the First Family”? They were not elected. This is like Ceaușescu 2.0.

    This and the bullshit going on in NC is really ticking me off.

  87. 87.

    OzarkHillbilly

    December 16, 2016 at 8:35 am

    @Betty Cracker: Show me a Republican who has done the right thing and I’ll show you a new Democrat.

  88. 88.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    December 16, 2016 at 8:38 am

    @Baud:

    What are you trying to say about us, Kay?

    Well…

  89. 89.

    debbie

    December 16, 2016 at 8:38 am

    @Baud:

    I think we need to label them as “Good Germans.” I hope to insult my family members with this soon.

  90. 90.

    satby

    December 16, 2016 at 8:40 am

    @Baud: Agreed. I’d go further, because a lot of them can realistically claim ignorance (not for the racism and xenophobia, but for some of the other stuff) if they aren’t obsessive political junkies like us, because the MSM sure wasn’t informing anyone.

    But any Trump supporter has to own the ugly racism, sexism, and xenophobia; because that wasn’t disguised at all.

  91. 91.

    OzarkHillbilly

    December 16, 2016 at 8:40 am

    @Baud:

    What are you trying to say about us, Kay?

    The obvious.

  92. 92.

    Pogonip

    December 16, 2016 at 8:54 am

    @Baud: We’re not raving maniacs, we’re snarling jackals.

  93. 93.

    Pogonip

    December 16, 2016 at 8:57 am

    @Baud: RUSH LIMBAUGH: Folks, that liberal First Lady is a real dog!

  94. 94.

    rikyrah

    December 16, 2016 at 9:06 am

    Quick Takes: A Cabinet of Rich White Men
    by Nancy LeTourneau
    December 15, 2016 6:30 PM
    POLITICAL ANIMAL BLOG

    * I noted earlier that the 17 people Trump has nominated to cabinet-level positions have a combined worth more than that of over one third of the 126 million households total in the US. So this comes as no real surprise:

    By selecting ExxonMobil CEO Rex Tillerson to serve as secretary of state, Donald Trump on Tuesday guaranteed that his four most influential departments will, if confirmed, be led entirely by white males for the first time since George H.W. Bush’s first Cabinet was approved in 1989. Bush kept white males in those positions for his entire term…

    Of Trump’s 18 choices to date — excluding his vice president and senior White House staff — 14 are white, of which 12 are male. None are Latino.

    Neither does this:

    Unless Trump picks a diverse Secretary of Agriculture, the line of succession to the presidency would be 12 white guys — via @maddow

    — Bradd Jaffy (@BraddJaffy) December 14, 2016

  95. 95.

    Kay

    December 16, 2016 at 9:09 am

    @debbie:

    The Ivanka thing is interesting because it illustrates how Trump benefits from norms, while violating them himself.

    1. there is a norm that says sexual language or posturing or photos like that with a (grown) child is inappropriate

    2. there is another norm that says no one may mention this behavior

    Trump violates the first and is protected by the second.

    You see it with his racist statements too.

    1. racist statements violate a norm

    2. there’s another norm that says people have to be careful when calling others racists

    Trump violates the first and is protected by the second

    That’s why I’m starting to believe the opposition to Trump can’t be “normal”. He relies on other people following rule he doesn’t recognize. He sees that as “edge” he has. He breaks rules but you can’t. We can’t color within the lines with him. That’s the edge he uses.

  96. 96.

    Botsplainer

    December 16, 2016 at 9:15 am

    Actually, after seeing a lot of real crowing from assholes, I’ve been beating the drum of announcing scandals, failures and mediocrity. My “normal” Republican friends and family are whimpering about “can’t you give him a chance” and “this isn’t productive”. My response is that I am taking the tack of thinking we aren’t supposed to be politically correct anymore, so I’m pointing out Christian and conservative failures and hypocrisy, while throwing even heavier fire at Mormons.

    Done with tiptoeing.

  97. 97.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    December 16, 2016 at 9:15 am

    @Kay: You see that in the way he does business. The rule is that when people do work for you, you pay them for services rendered. He doesn’t.

    ETA: And if you point that out, he’ll just say you do bad work, and he doesn’t pay for bad work.

  98. 98.

    Jeffro

    December 16, 2016 at 9:16 am

    If you aren’t following Sarah Kendzior on Twitter, you should be. Her “Donald Trump, Russia, and the Mystery of ‘These People’ ” strings everything together quite nicely.

    And also reminds us – just as we should be reminding every right-winger and media clown in the country – that Trump hasn’t had a news conference since July 29th(!) I’m sure it’d go unnoticed if it were President-Elect Hillz, right?

  99. 99.

    Steeplejack (phone)

    December 16, 2016 at 9:16 am

    @rikyrah:

    Second link is screwed.

  100. 100.

    rikyrah

    December 16, 2016 at 9:16 am

    @Kay:

    And who are we kidding with this? It isn’t about a stand in for the First Lady. Ivanka and her husband want a role so they invented one and they did it to get around laws. Conway is out on cable explaining how they’re busily finding loopholes. Trump has announced they’re finding loopholes. The sleaze has just begun. Wait until they’re actually in power.

    tell that truth, Kay.

    It’s absolutely ridiculous.

    And, the double standard is so obvious. So glaring.

  101. 101.

    Kay

    December 16, 2016 at 9:22 am

    @BillinGlendaleCA:

    Right. Here’s the test: “what if everyone did that?” What if everyone paid 60 or 70% on a job that was bid? The bidding process is useless then. He smears shit over the whole process, but it’s okay, it doesn’t fall apart, because everyone doesn’t do that. Just a small group of entitled people.

    He stiffs smaller contractors too, because he knows they can’t afford to litigate. What is everyone did that? There would be no smaller contractors.

    Trump relies on everyone NOT doing what he does.

  102. 102.

    magurakurin

    December 16, 2016 at 9:23 am

    @Kay: why beat around the bush? Hell, I’ll say it, he sexually abused her as a child and still is. Why is it so hard to believe? Father’s rape their daughters all the time. It’s something that happens. It is horrifying, immoral and illegal, but it does happen. Why is it so hard for us to accept that famous and rich people or presidents can be guilty of it? Like with Boehner’s alcoholism. Why was that never discussed? It was obvious he had a drinking problem. We all know people who have drinking problems,so we can see the signs, but refused to admit it when it is the Speaker of the House. Why?

    He is fucking Ivanka. She is being raped by him and she is a victim of abuse.

    He.is.that.evil.

  103. 103.

    rikyrah

    December 16, 2016 at 9:23 am

    @Kay:

    They’re Democrats so “none of them”. They’re not raving maniacs though. These are regular people. This is not normal in their experience. It’s not normal in mine either. I have hundreds of photographs with my husband and grown daughter. None of them look remotely like that Trump photo. Come on.

    There are three daughters in my family. Not nare one photo of any of us looks like that creepiness.

  104. 104.

    debbie

    December 16, 2016 at 9:24 am

    @Kay:

    That’s why, as Botsplainer says, we must very noisily and continuously point out the deviancies of this monster.

  105. 105.

    Kay

    December 16, 2016 at 9:25 am

    @rikyrah:

    The predictions that everything will be all right under Donald Trump ignore this:

    Matthew Yglesias ‏@mattyglesias 1h1 hour ago
    Congressional GOP will find that having already swallowed doubts about sexual assault & corruption, it can live with a Russian alliance too.

    He changes norms. He lowers them. It goes downhill fast. Now Republicans have an incentive to protect him. It will get much, much worse. We aren’t anywhere near bottom.

  106. 106.

    rikyrah

    December 16, 2016 at 9:26 am

    @debbie:

    Where the fuck in the Constitution is anything about an “Office of the First Family”? They were not elected. This is like Ceaușescu 2.0.

    Actually pic a whole lot of countries around the world, and you see this.

    Unbelievable.

    This and the bullshit going on in NC is really ticking me off.

    True that.

  107. 107.

    Kay

    December 16, 2016 at 9:29 am

    @rikyrah:

    Right? You have the “standing beside them in a graduation gown” and then you have…whatever that Trump photo was. If he wants to push the boundaries of what are taboos that’s fine- his call- but he has to admit this is not ordinary behavior. The Politico reporter isn’t allowed to call it out, but the behavior itself violated a norm and it came first.

  108. 108.

    rikyrah

    December 16, 2016 at 9:32 am

    @Kay:

    Trump violates the first and is protected by the second

    That’s why I’m starting to believe the opposition to Trump can’t be “normal”. He relies on other people following rule he doesn’t recognize. He sees that as “edge” he has. He breaks rules but you can’t. We can’t color within the lines with him. That’s the edge he uses.

    You are absolutely on the money.

  109. 109.

    Botsplainer

    December 16, 2016 at 9:35 am

    @Kay:

    Every construction and collection lawyer knows exactly what Twitler is – he’s “that fuckin’ guy”, the cocksucker that jams a well-performing sub into a settlement just to keep the lights on. He shaves 35 points off the final tally, plus the sub is out a big chunk on the collection in terms of fees, costs, experts.

  110. 110.

    rikyrah

    December 16, 2016 at 9:36 am

    @Botsplainer:

    My “normal” Republican friends and family are whimpering about “can’t you give him a chance” and “this isn’t productive”.

    This is what I say to people about ‘give him a chance’:

    As the GOP brings The Hunger Games to America, just EXACTLY what are we supposed to be working with them on?

    The Muslim Registry?
    The possibility of the deportation of a MILLION DREAMers from the only country many of them have known?
    The cutting of Social Security?
    The dismantling of Medicare into a voucher program?
    The taking away of healthcare for 20 MILLION Americans, many of them African American?
    Are we supposed to with Jeff Sessions, a proven racist in word and professional deed, as the Chief Law Enforcement Officer of this country?
    As we supposed to work with Price at HHS, as he takes away Obamacare, Medicare, abortion and birth control for women?

    Just EXACTLY should we work with the GOP ON?

    I mean it..

    WHAT THE PHUCK DO YOU THINK WE’RE SUPPOSED TO BE WORKING WITH HIM ON?

  111. 111.

    HRA

    December 16, 2016 at 9:36 am

    @Kay:

    Although it’s not normal for our fathers or husbands to have ever acted like Trump to their daughters, there have been fathers like Trump who have done even more than what we saw on stage. It has nothing to do with politics. It’s some sick bastard who took advantage of their own child. Did you ever see a pregnant 8 year old? She could barely see over the handles of the buggy when she pushed it on the street, Did you ever see a classmate have 2 children with her father? A friend brought her with her son to my home when we were neighbors raising our own children. I said your son looks just you. After she left my friend said you almost gave me a heart attack, she had her son and daughter with her father. To think we thought it was strange when the family piled into the car and she sat next to her father while her mother, brother and sister sat in the back. The worst part in my mind is she was happy and proud of the situation.

    /

  112. 112.

    Botsplainer

    December 16, 2016 at 9:39 am

    @rikyrah:

    The Russian word is Nomenklatura.

  113. 113.

    Kay

    December 16, 2016 at 9:40 am

    @rikyrah:

    Conway is relying on the traditional deference to Presidents when she’s on cable every day sleazing her way out of everything he does. But the whole reason she has to tap dance is Trump will have just violated another norm. They’re using a system they don’t comply with. They couldn’t operate without everyone else observing norms.

  114. 114.

    rikyrah

    December 16, 2016 at 9:41 am

    @Kay:

    The predictions that everything will be all right under Donald Trump ignore this:

    I have never predicted that. I think just the opposite and always have.

    I told you from the beginning – the root of my opposition to the man was because, as a Black person in America, there was NOTHING in the history of America that would make me NOT take the man at his word.

  115. 115.

    Major Major Major Major

    December 16, 2016 at 9:42 am

    The WaPo has their ‘biggest Pinocchios of 2016’ list out. You’ll never guess what #1 is about.

    “Director Comey said my answers were truthful”

    If there was any issue that caused Hillary Clinton to narrowly lose an election many expected she would win, it was the controversy over her private email server. In this statement, Clinton cherry-picked statements by FBI Director James B. Comey to skirt more disturbing findings about the FBI investigation. He said there was no evidence that she lied to the FBI, but he declined to say whether she told the truth to the American people. Clinton later admitted that she had “short-circuited” her answer.

    NUMBER ONE. THE FACT-CHECKER IS SAYING THIS WAS THE NUMBER ONE LIE OF THE YEAR.

  116. 116.

    Kay

    December 16, 2016 at 9:46 am

    @HRA:

    I agree and I don’t mean to diminish that. I apologize if it sounded like I was. The saddest case I ever had was a pregnant 12 year old. I asked her why she named the baby what is an old-fashioned name- not one young people favor- and she told me that’s her 7th grade teachers name. I had to walk away to cry. She wasn’t in school anymore. She lost the one place where she had adults she admired, really “loved”, probably. You have to love someone to name your child after them.

  117. 117.

    rikyrah

    December 16, 2016 at 9:54 am

    @Kay:

    Conway is relying on the traditional deference to Presidents when she’s on cable every day sleazing her way out of everything he does.

    Uh uh uh.

    They spent the last 8 years destroying everything we thought about the respect for the Office of the Presidency, as they went out of their way to be disrespectful to Barack Hussein Obama II and his entire family.

    We warned them about the consequences of that.

    They thought we were playing.
    We have 8 years of receipts.

    And nobody is going to go along with that shyt, as they to ‘shame’ us into deferring to this sociopath.

    uh uh
    uh uh

    They don’t get it. We had policy differences with Shrub in 2000. By 2004, it was quite personal.

    THIS PERSON?

    He offends us as HUMAN BEINGS.

    HIS VERY EXISTENCE.

    So, PHUCK OUTTA HERE with deference to him.

    AND, he was illegitimately put into office?

    Uh huh.

  118. 118.

    Emma

    December 16, 2016 at 10:00 am

    @Major Major Major Major: I keep telling people. Stop subscribing. Stop using your money to support this crap. They DO NOT mean well. They will lie and lie and lie on behalf of their corporate masters. Is anyone surprised that a paper that has been hard on the orange shitgibbon turns on Hillary right after Bezos meets with said OS?
    They know which side of their bread is buttered and it isn’t the truth.

  119. 119.

    magurakurin

    December 16, 2016 at 10:00 am

    @rikyrah:

    THIS PERSON?

    He offends us as HUMAN BEINGS.

    HIS VERY EXISTENCE.

    So, PHUCK OUTTA HERE with deference to him

    this.
    This is exactly how I feel. It’s like we did a Vulcan mind meld.

  120. 120.

    JPL

    December 16, 2016 at 10:02 am

    @rikyrah: OT.. Thanks for letting me know what movie the quote was from.

  121. 121.

    Botsplainer

    December 16, 2016 at 10:03 am

    @Kay:

    “The Aristocrats!!!”

  122. 122.

    rikyrah

    December 16, 2016 at 10:03 am

    @Kay:

    I had to walk away to cry. She wasn’t in school anymore. She lost the one place where she had adults she admired, really “loved”, probably. You have to love someone to name your child after them.

    This broke my heart. Broke my heart just reading it.

  123. 123.

    Major Major Major Major

    December 16, 2016 at 10:04 am

    @Emma: This isn’t really anybody ‘turning on’ Hillary. Kessler has always been a both-sidesery, anti-Hillary beltway hack. I would be very surprised if the WaPo changed their (clear anti-Trump) editorial stance to be more favorable. Bezos does know which side his bread is buttered on, but it doesn’t actually matter since he owns the bread factory, bread store, and bread distributorship.

  124. 124.

    JPL

    December 16, 2016 at 10:05 am

    @Major Major Major Major: Even though the repubs want to discontinue Medicare as we know it, they called out President Obama and democrats in general, because they said they wanted to end medicare.
    That was the number one lie a few years ago.

  125. 125.

    Emma

    December 16, 2016 at 10:10 am

    @Major Major Major Major: Sorry. The friend of my enemy is my enemy whether by direct action or indirect attack . Either we get nasty about it or they will bury us.

  126. 126.

    Kay

    December 16, 2016 at 10:12 am

    At every step of the way Trump had agency and he was making decisions. After the election he could have been gracious to Clinton instead of holding “lock her up” rallies. He could have appointed fewer far Right cabinet members. He could have told his children they can’t be on the transition team and they can’t sit in on meetings. The Trump children are adults too. Any one of them could make different decisions. Trump’s son in law could work at a real job. Hell, Biden’s wife had her own job WHILE he was VP. None of this had to be this way.

  127. 127.

    gvg

    December 16, 2016 at 10:12 am

    @Major Major Major Major: No they didn’t. They said this list of examples is in no particular order. The body of the article above the list made a huge deal about how Trump had earned 59 4 pinocchio statements during the campaign and several since then while Clinton had only earned 7. Thats a pretty clear statement. They also said historically they tried to list an equal number from each party but that it was useless to follow that this year. They tied it in with the rise of fake news too. It’s not a perfect article, but what ever is? Its pretty darned clear to me though.

  128. 128.

    Hill Dweller

    December 16, 2016 at 10:14 am

    @JPL: Over at Maddow’s blog, Benen has a story about Trump continuing to lie about the national murder rate after the election. They have to lie, because their policies suck, and they can’t win a fair debate on the issues.

  129. 129.

    Major Major Major Major

    December 16, 2016 at 10:16 am

    @Emma: Is Al Gore your enemy too? He’s met with Trump exactly as many times as Bezos.

  130. 130.

    Kay

    December 16, 2016 at 10:16 am

    Imagine if Obama had continued to hold campaign rallies after the election. Imagine if he had said about white voters what Trump is saying about black voters- that he is glad if they didn’t vote. Imagine if Obama had continued to attack McCain at those rallies.

    Trump is setting new lower standards, every day and in every way. We’ll all pay for this, not just for this President but for every one who comes after.

  131. 131.

    rikyrah

    December 16, 2016 at 10:17 am

    Dem senators question Michael Flynn’s security clearance
    12/16/16 10:11 AM
    By Steve Benen

    It stands to reason that retired Gen. Michael Flynn, Donald Trump’s choice to be the White House National Security Adviser, would feel some embarrassment about his recent record, but if he thinks he can simply erase it, Flynn is going to be disappointed. CNN reported the other day:

    Incoming National Security Adviser Michael Flynn has quietly deleted a tweet with a link to a fake news story about Hillary Clinton’s involvement in sex crimes with minors.

    In the since-deleted tweet from Nov. 2, Flynn linked to a story on TruePundit.com that falsely claimed the FBI investigation into Anthony Weiner had turned up evidence “to put Hillary (Clinton) and her crew away for life.”

    Yes, we apparently live in a time in which a major national news organization can publish the sentence, ” Incoming National Security Adviser Michael Flynn has quietly deleted a tweet with a link to a fake news story about Hillary Clinton’s involvement in sex crimes with minors,” and no one seems all that surprised by the report.

    Flynn’s deletion will not, however, have the intended effect – because we’ve all already seen it, and it’s still readily available through various archives. In fact, efforts like these tend to be counter-productive since they draw additional attention the fact that Flynn has embraced crackpot nonsense in the very recent past.

  132. 132.

    Corner Stone

    December 16, 2016 at 10:21 am

    @Kay: He’s a petulant man-baby with the thinnest of thin skin. He spends all his time reacting to slights and perceived slights. No time for a PDB but all the time in the world to consume a restaurant review and then tweet attack the publication. Plenty of time to lambast Josh Earnest on stage at one of his victory rallies but no time for his team to meet with security professionals.
    Plenty of time to sell his daughter to the highest bidder but no time to…oh wait.

  133. 133.

    JPL

    December 16, 2016 at 10:22 am

    @Hill Dweller: Next year, Trump would talk about the real rate and mention how much it dropped.

  134. 134.

    Major Major Major Major

    December 16, 2016 at 10:23 am

    @gvg: i somehow missed almost all the things you point out, so either it wasn’t that clear or my coffee hadn’t kicked in yet.

  135. 135.

    Corner Stone

    December 16, 2016 at 10:23 am

    @rikyrah:

    Flynn’s deletion will not, however, have the intended effect

    I first read that as, “Flynn’s defection” and I couldn’t decide if it made more or less sense of the whole situation.

  136. 136.

    rikyrah

    December 16, 2016 at 10:23 am

    Tweet:

    Trump isn’t taking Russia’s hack seriously. And THAT’S the biggest story of all.

  137. 137.

    rikyrah

    December 16, 2016 at 10:24 am

    Trump’s false claims about U.S. murder rate raise questions
    12/16/16 09:29 AM
    By Steve Benen

    As a presidential candidate, Donald Trump’s standard stump speech included a very specific claim about crime in the United States.

    Oct. 28, 2016: “You won’t hear this from the media: We have the highest murder rate in this country in 45 years. You don’t hear that from these people. They don’t want to talk about it. The highest murder rate in the United States in 45 years.”

    Oct. 29, 2016: “The murder rate in the United States, it’s the worst, the highest it’s been in 45 years. Nobody talks about that — nobody talks about that.”

    Oct. 30, 2016: “Murder is – in 45 years, right now, the rates are the highest they’ve been … and they don’t want to talk about it.”

    The reason “they” – he never said who “they” are – didn’t want to talk about the murder rate reaching a 45-year high is that the claim is ridiculously untrue. In fact, as the Washington Post explained before the election, Trump actually has the entire story backwards: “Both the rate of homicides and violent crimes are back down to the levels they were 45 years ago.”

  138. 138.

    Corner Stone

    December 16, 2016 at 10:25 am

    @Major Major Major Major:

    Is Al Gore your enemy too? He’s met with Trump exactly as many times as Bezos.

    I’m actually not much of a fan of Gore, and his deciding to allow himself to be paraded and misused do not bolster the case that he’s on “our” side.

  139. 139.

    Major Major Major Major

    December 16, 2016 at 10:26 am

    Trump’s new Israel ambassador seems like a real sweetheart.

    I was going to block quote something from that link to highlight how repulsive he is but I can’t pick the best bit. Just take a look. He conforms to every bad stereotype about the hard right and Israel.

    @Corner Stone: I’m just saying, when the president elect wants to meet with you it’s perfectly acceptable to have a meeting.

  140. 140.

    catclub

    December 16, 2016 at 10:31 am

    @OzarkHillbilly: and most likely to occur as an outburst against Russia, when dictators disagree.
    Or: Has a a fascist ever broken up with Russia? Painfully?

  141. 141.

    Kathleen

    December 16, 2016 at 10:32 am

    @rikyrah: Brilliant, rikyrah. Nailed it.

  142. 142.

    catclub

    December 16, 2016 at 10:32 am

    @Major Major Major Major: Why not just appoint Sheldon Adelson ambassador to Israel?

  143. 143.

    randy khan

    December 16, 2016 at 10:33 am

    @rikyrah:

    I am constantly amazed that public figures think that there’s any point to deleting tweets that have attracted negative attention.

  144. 144.

    Major Major Major Major

    December 16, 2016 at 10:35 am

    @catclub: I always thought he was more of a fair-weather friend to Trump.

  145. 145.

    catclub

    December 16, 2016 at 10:37 am

    They have to lie, because their policies suck, and they can’t win a fair debate on the issues.

    @Hill Dweller:

    But I bet they implement Kansas style solutions for the entire country because they are true believers, and are convinced those are the RIGHT solutions. They think all their far right solutions are popular.

  146. 146.

    Yarrow

    December 16, 2016 at 10:39 am

    @Botsplainer: I agree. I think Democrats struggle with being on the offense. We need to be pushing back on everything all the time. This is not normal. Name it. Don’t let them change the norms.

    @Corner Stone: Agreed. Bezos met with him as part of a group of tech people. Still didn’t like it but it was an entire group. Gore chose to meet with him on his own. No need to do that. No need to be made a pawn in Donald’s game. What was the upside for Gore on that? For climate issues? Nothing. It’s lose all the way down.

  147. 147.

    rikyrah

    December 16, 2016 at 10:41 am

    North Carolina Republicans launch a legislative ‘coup’
    12/16/16 08:00 AM—UPDATED 12/16/16 08:07 AM
    By Steve Benen

    Once Republicans took over North Carolina’s state government, they not only pursued a relentlessly far-right agenda; they also abandoned all subtlety. Gov. Pat McCrory (R) ran as a pragmatic former mayor and business leader, but governed as a conservative crusader, imposing outlandish voting restrictions, creating new limits on civil and reproductive rights, and cutting tax and unemployment benefits on struggling families.

    And so, this year, McCrory became the only incumbent governor in either party to lose re-election – which apparently drove North Carolina’s GOP-led state legislature to become even more reckless.

    North Carolina’s Republican-dominated legislature is moving to strip powers from the state’s governor three weeks before Democrat Roy Cooper is set to succeed a member of their party in the executive mansion.

    Lawmakers on Thursday began debating a bill to require Senate confirmation for cabinet appointments, reduce by 1,200 the number of state employees the governor could hire and fire at will and eliminate the governor’s power to pick certain university trustees.

    ……………………

    But hurricane victims are not foremost on GOP lawmakers’ minds. Rather, they’re focused almost entirely on curtailing the governing abilities of Gov.-elect Roy Cooper before he takes office on Jan. 7. Republicans disagree with the voters’ choice, so they’re taking steps to prevent him from governing before he can even begin.

    Cooper explained yesterday, “Most people might think that this is a partisan power grab, but it is really more ominous.” Larry Hall, the Democratic Minority Leader in the state House, added that the purpose of the special session is “to nullify the vote of the people for governor.”

    As Slate’s Mark Joseph Stern explained, this is, in effect, a “legislative coup.”

    What’s happening in North Carolina is not politics as usual. It is an extraordinarily disturbing legislative coup, a flagrant effort to maintain one-party rule by rejecting democratic norms and revoking the will of the voters. It is the kind of thing we might expect to see in Venezuela, not a U.S. state. It should terrify every American citizen who believes in the rule of law. This is so much more than a partisan power grab. This is an attack on democracy itself.

  148. 148.

    cmorenc

    December 16, 2016 at 10:44 am

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    To me Trump is scary, Ryan is absolutely terrifying. YMMV.

    Trump will be unable to avoid fucking up in spectacularly obvious ways to all but his hardest-core supporters With Ryan, it may take a decade for enough people to even start waking the fuck up to even begin to try to undo the damage.

  149. 149.

    Major Major Major Major

    December 16, 2016 at 10:44 am

    @Yarrow: I was using it as a point of comparison to somebody who was saying that made Bezos the enemy.

  150. 150.

    rikyrah

    December 16, 2016 at 10:45 am

    @Kay:

    Imagine if Obama had continued to hold campaign rallies after the election. Imagine if he had said about white voters what Trump is saying about black voters- that he is glad if they didn’t vote.

    They didn’t vote because of VOTER SUPPRESSION, YOU RACIST MUTHAPHUCKA.

    The number of Black Voters unable to vote because of VOTER SUPPRESSION in these states, is 3, 4 times his margin of ‘ victory’.

  151. 151.

    rikyrah

    December 16, 2016 at 10:46 am

    @catclub:

    But I bet they implement Kansas style solutions for the entire country because they are true believers, and are convinced those are the RIGHT solutions. They think all their far right solutions are popular.

    They don’t think that their solutions are popular. They would run on them if they thought that. They don’t.

  152. 152.

    Emma

    December 16, 2016 at 10:47 am

    @Major Major Major Major: At this point, I am looking at anyone who meets with him with a wary eye. Mind you, they are probably doing it to see if there’s a chance to at least break through the titanium shell around his mind, so I am not yet ready to write them off. But newspapers have abdicated their function and I have no compunction of saying “guilty until proven innocent”.

  153. 153.

    Corner Stone

    December 16, 2016 at 10:48 am

    @Yarrow: I take a different tack in that if I were (*sobs*) a Tech Titan I would have politely declined any offer to participate in that meeting. Every person there beclowned themselves – for absolutely no gain. They aren’t going to win on immigration and they aren’t going to protect net neutrality. All they did was photo op Trump’s children and further legitimize a uniquely unqualified buffoon.

  154. 154.

    Yarrow

    December 16, 2016 at 10:51 am

    @Kay: Yes, agree. Ivanka having a job in his administration is wrong. It’s unprecedented. The only role she should be considered for is if he didn’t have a spouse to fill the role of First Lady. Then he could choose Ivanka to act as hostess. That’s it. Otherwise, no. It’s nepotism. She doesn’t need an office since she has no role in the administration. She should not have a role in the administration.

    Trump is breaking every norm and daring us to call him out on it.

  155. 155.

    Corner Stone

    December 16, 2016 at 10:51 am

    @Major Major Major Major:

    that made Bezos the enemy.

    Anyone who is unclear on whether Bezos is the enemy or not should schedule an headectomy asap.

    I don’t think Gore is “the enemy” for meeting with Trump but I do have many pauses on a number of the decisions AG has made over the last several years. The decision to be used because he thought “dialogue” does not improve my questions on him.

  156. 156.

    Lizzy L

    December 16, 2016 at 10:52 am

    @Mustang Bobby: Here’s where to look.

    http://www.californiadrought.org/drought/current-conditions/

  157. 157.

    Yarrow

    December 16, 2016 at 10:54 am

    @Corner Stone: I agree. I don’t understand why they went. But if one of them sat it out while all the rest went then it might not have done them any good. They needed to all decide together they weren’t going.

    Hell, why does ANYONE go there to meet him? Unless they really think they’re going to get a job from him, it’s a dumb move. They get used and end up looking like idiots. See: Romney, Mittens, (R-Pwnd).

    I’ll say this for the Bush clan, they haven’t shown up to kiss his ring.

  158. 158.

    rikyrah

    December 16, 2016 at 10:58 am

    @Emma:

    At this point, I am looking at anyone who meets with him with a wary eye.

    You…me….JUSTLIKETHIS….

  159. 159.

    Yarrow

    December 16, 2016 at 11:00 am

    @Major Major Major Major: I don’t think Bezos is the enemy. I think he hates Trump. He’s got the money and resources to make Trump’s life uncomfortable. We’ll have to see how it goes.

  160. 160.

    Aleta

    December 16, 2016 at 11:02 am

    @Major Major Major Major: They had so many more lies of Trump’s that they decided to lead with Clinton, and also work Obama in close to the top. But NO. They didn’t have to do this. It’s not balance, it’s a calculation, to stay in favor. Profits making the decisions.

  161. 161.

    OzarkHillbilly

    December 16, 2016 at 11:03 am

    @Yarrow:

    Hell, why does ANYONE go there to meet him?

    Simple: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
    $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
    $$$$$$$$$$$$……

    Whether they like it or not, every single one of them have a lot to lose by pissing off Trump. Look at what happened with Lockheed Martin when Trump bitched about the F-35. They lost $4 billion practically overnight in stock valuations.

  162. 162.

    O. Felix Culpa

    December 16, 2016 at 11:03 am

    @Kay:

    That’s why I’m starting to believe the opposition to Trump can’t be “normal”. He relies on other people following rule he doesn’t recognize. He sees that as “edge” he has. He breaks rules but you can’t. We can’t color within the lines with him. That’s the edge he uses.

    You’re absolutely right on about that, especially given Trump’s narcissism. People who try to play by the normal rules with narcissists – who observe no rules for themselves but severely apply them to others when convenient – will always be put off-kilter and at a disadvantage. So, what new and more effective strategies and messaging should be used?

  163. 163.

    OzarkHillbilly

    December 16, 2016 at 11:09 am

    @O. Felix Culpa:

    So, what new and more effective strategies and messaging should be used?

    I can only offer what I did with my Ex: Stay as far away from her as physically and mentally possible. Not sure how that helps with our present situation.

  164. 164.

    catclub

    December 16, 2016 at 11:11 am

    @Yarrow:

    I’ll say this for the Bush clan, they haven’t shown up to kiss his ring

    I would usually include Condi Rice as part of the Bush clan, but not in this case.

  165. 165.

    catclub

    December 16, 2016 at 11:13 am

    @O. Felix Culpa:

    Trump’s narcissism. People who try to play by the normal rules with narcissists

    s/narcissism/sociopathy/g

  166. 166.

    O. Felix Culpa

    December 16, 2016 at 11:14 am

    @OzarkHillbilly: Yeah, I had to do the same with my family member. Unfortunately, as you note, that tactic is more problematic when dealing with the incoming Caudillo.

  167. 167.

    O. Felix Culpa

    December 16, 2016 at 11:15 am

    @catclub: Sorry, please to explain? :)

  168. 168.

    Aleta

    December 16, 2016 at 11:50 am

    Trump family follows the ‘rules’ of business for their ilk of developer (and international energy companies, and outfits like Blackwater). Literally: Decide what you want. Begin by acting on that. Run with however much you can get away with. When opposed, bargain from your “position.” When forced, promise only what is required. Lie, then do what you want. Tie up or gag the opposition as you continue. See what you get away with. Prepare clean getaway by leaving others responsible. Dissolve and reform. Aggressive PR at every step.

    The established methods for draining resources out of undeveloped countries are just being applied now to drain taxpayer-funded pots of federal money in the US.

  169. 169.

    J R in WV

    December 16, 2016 at 11:56 am

    @Kay:

    I’m sorry you had to work with that ball of hot mess.

    I was on a grand jury once, and in with the murder and drug dealing were the child abuse. We had to look at the photos a father took of his sexual abuse of his daughter, and listen to the town cop tell about a young man, a predator, taking slow girls by the hand and leading them into the woods where he would rape them and walk off leaving them there in the patch of woods. They didn’t even know what was happening to them.

    Lots of evil out there in the cold world. Worst day of my experience on multiple juries.

  170. 170.

    debbie

    December 16, 2016 at 12:07 pm

    @rikyrah:

    Google’s not helping me find the source for your quote. I’d love to put it on my FB page. :(

  171. 171.

    Miss Bianca

    December 16, 2016 at 12:22 pm

    @BillinGlendaleCA: Ooh! I wonder if that’s the problem behind some of our tracking numbers coming up wrong.

  172. 172.

    LongHairedWeirdo

    December 16, 2016 at 1:06 pm

    I know I can’t be the first, but there’s a sadistic bit of me that wants to say “White working class people matter? No – ALL people matter!”

    But only in front of people who are honestly and truly concerned about important issues, and are wise enough to realize that “oh, yeah, that’s a good dig at us, and perfectly fair.”

    The hard thing about WWC voters is that one party doesn’t care about the truth. They’ll promise the return of coal jobs, of steel jobs, etc., knowing damn well there aren’t *any* jobs coming back.

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