A month ago someone insider-y told me that Obama blamed Americans for what happened and now I believe it.
— Summer Brennan (@summerbrennan) December 16, 2016
Do you want Obama to breathe ?or do you want him to keep an open line of communication with Trump? /1
— Ana Marie Cox (@anamariecox) December 16, 2016
Trump’s ego being, of course, the only thing big enough TO shift policy over the demands of GOP hardliners. /5
— Ana Marie Cox (@anamariecox) December 16, 2016
It's possible Obama was restrained today because he wants the forthcoming intel report on Russian interference to do all the talking.
— Greg Sargent (@ThePlumLineGS) December 16, 2016
Depressed Democrats who were hoping for "fierce urgency of now" from Obama instead are getting "arc of the moral universe is long."
— Alec MacGillis (@AlecMacGillis) December 16, 2016
…keep in mind: there very well may be criminal investigations going on that he wouldn’t want to compromise. @ThePlumLineGS
— Dana Houle (@DanaHoule) December 16, 2016
Some appear upset that our current @POTUS didn't get unhinged at his press conference. What about the last 8 years made you think he might?
— Al Giordano (@AlGiordano) December 16, 2016
What we're seeing: Obama is even more depressed about election than assumed. He showed glimmers of equanimity w/ Remnick. That's now gone.
— Alec MacGillis (@AlecMacGillis) December 16, 2016
The professor of constitutional law was never going to pursue an extra-constitutional way to avoid passing power
— Dana Houle (@DanaHoule) December 16, 2016
we keep bringing belief in others' deep-down commitment to democracy to a fascist knife fight
— laura olin (@lauraolin) December 16, 2016
His answer, consistently, was "What Trump is doing now would not be OK if he were president but he's not president yet." Clear implication
— Elias Itzkovitz (@eliasisquith) December 16, 2016
I understand if people disagree with that strategy or find it wanting. That's a legit criticism. But there is a plan. This is it
— Elias Itzkovitz (@eliasisquith) December 16, 2016
Hours later, still bugged by Obama's presser. I get the need to be statesmanlike. But there are many gradations between a shrug & a scream.
— emily nussbaum (@emilynussbaum) December 17, 2016
Obama is conscious of how little power he has on paper; Idk if he realizes how much power he has in fact. Would he be wise to use it? https://t.co/CvJzLGCx11
— ThusTweetedAnderson (@ThusBloggedA) December 17, 2016
#30Rock on this presser
Liz: Those weren't jokes! That was an appeal for a return to common sense & decency
Jack: Well, they got big laughs.— Wyeth Ruthven (@wyethwire) December 16, 2016
It’s up to us, folks.
Let’s stop pining for a valorized hero—even a brilliant, capable one like Obama—to save us.
— Greg Greene (@ggreeneva) December 16, 2016
rikyrah
Morning Everyone???
NobodySpecial
Well, there are so many different points to be pulled apart when you discuss this.
Maybe Obama isn’t the guy to get up and yell, but there was certainly a place for him to let the Pravda President know what he owes the American people, starting with the truth on his business and the truth of his, his family’s, and his advisor’s connections to the Russians who interfered in our elections.
This is the guy who said that in order for him to do things, we had to get mad and push.
I haven’t seen people on the left this mad in a long, long time. And they did push. And they got kumbaya. So, yeah, a lot of them feel let down, because so much was left unsaid that SHOULD have been said. This is not normal, and Obama should have said as much in plain language.
RealityBites
@rikyrah: morning. Raining here. Fits my mood.
The Thin Black Duke
America had one job to do, and it failed. Obama can’t fix this, and I’m not going to blame him for it either.
Skippy-san
Our only hope is that Trump emulates William Henry Harrison and gets pneumonia and dies 30 days after election day.
OzarkHillbilly
I’ve lost count of how many nights in a row I have awakened at 1 am and been unable to fall back asleep. I think I’m pushing 10. Beginning to wonder if this is my new normal.
Betty Cracker
@NobodySpecial: That’s about where I landed after yesterday’s presser. It seemed “normalizing” to me. I don’t expect PBO to be my savior, channel my anger or do anything extra-Constitutional, etc. But it would have been helpful to clearly define the issue we’re facing, and that didn’t happen. Maybe he will at some point, perhaps when the report comes out, but I don’t expect it now.
raven
600 comments about this and it’s starting again. Fuck this.
NobodySpecial
@raven: Betty and I were having a ok time until your temper came along.
Bmaccnm
Serious question: What does Barack Obama owe the American public? He gave us eight years of respect befitting an adult populace. We responded with President-elect Trump. What does he owe us now?
magurakurin
I blame the American People, why shouldn’t Obama?
eldorado
all hands on deck. do you see what’s happening in north carolina? it’s full on fascism. we have to fight.
Botsplainer
As a longtime family law practitioner, Christmas is a special time…for bullshit. The calls and urgency over Christmas parenting time make us want to stab kittens. In honor of the season, I cooked up something for cynics to enjoy and provide a glimpse of what my calls are like.
JPL
Good Morning. I glanced at the post about Trump’s Holiday card. I can’t believe Fox news praised it because , I saw a card about an egotistical jackass.
Betty Cracker
@Bmaccnm: Most of us didn’t vote for Trump, so the “fuck America — it’s not worthy of Obama” line of thinking seems kinda petty and illogical, tbh. He’s the president, for the next 33 days, so he owes America his tireless effort to perform his job to the best of his ability until the last minute he occupies it, as I am sure he knows and will do. I might not agree with everything he does, but thankfully, President Obama is too patriotic, committed and wise to phone it in.
JPL
This is not normal
“In exchange, Sinclair would broadcast their Trump interviews across the country without commentary…”
http://www.politico.com/story/2016/12/trump-campaign-sinclair-broadcasting-jared-kushner-232764
I’m sure this was discussed overnight, but Trump should not be allowed to lie on TV, without comment.
Baud
@rikyrah: Morning.
The Thin Black Duke
I’m sorry, but why should Obama give a fuck at this point? This country just told him exactly what they think of him, and if he just wants to move on and get on with his life, I don’t blame him.
BillinGlendaleCA
While going though the LA Noir thread, I just came across this like to a vid capture from a game, look at the title.
Baud
@BillinGlendaleCA: Heh.
Baud
@Bmaccnm:
@The Thin Black Duke:
Agree. He doesn’t owe us anything.
geg6
@The Thin Black Duke:
“This country” did not do that. A minority of this country told the majority what they think of us.
BillinGlendaleCA
@geg6: They’re really just not that into us.
p.a.
@rikyrah: Good morning.
3-5 inches snow here, changing to rain, ice, then 57 deg tomorrow! Quite the incentive to not grab the shovel.
Botsplainer
@The Thin Black Duke:
Viewpoints differ – leftish viewpoints tend to want a solitary Green Lantern to right the wrongs and fix everything, while RWNJs are content to immiserate all in a collective effort.
MJS
@Bmaccnm: In response to your serious question, my answer is that he owes us nothing. He has faced the hate of literally of tens of millions of people. He had endured some of those people insulting his wife and children. He and his family have undoubtedly been subject to many, many threats to their ssfety. He has done an extraordinary job despite all this. He owes us nothing.
Kathleen
When I saw the video Obama made the night of the election I was freaked out. I had never seen anything like that before and my fear was “someone” had told Obama to make the video to keep people calm. His energy on the video was different. I thought he had learned something really earth shattering about this whole situation that could not ever be revealed. I think I’m watching too much TV. Anyway, for 8 years, through all of the hatred, disrespect and obstruction, he repeatedly maintained that Americans were decent people. I’m sure there were times that was very difficult, but because of his laser focus and sense of duty as President he kept reminding us of that over and over. I’m sure it sustained him in very tough times. Then the white voters decide to throw the dinner plate at Hillary Clinton because she didn’t ask them how their day went and I think that, combined with the fact his presidency is almost over, resulted in him experiencing a kick in the gut about his beliefs in our innate goodness which for him could tantamount to an existential crisis. I think he’s pretty freaked out and has to balance coming to terms with his own inner crisis with fulfilling the responsibilities of his Presidency in its last days. I blame the voters, too. I think that what’s freaking a lot of us out is the realization that he can’t save us. I realized after the election that our belief that either Hillary or Bernie could form a firewall between us and the disintegration of our government institutions as we’ve known them and save us was delusional. Either one would have faced Rethuglican obstruction and in Hillary’s case endless hearings. Our institutions are that fragile in that sense, a result of electing “representatives” who “hate” government and the American people over the past 35 years. I think the biggest symptom of our problem is that fact that Rethuglicans have actively tried (and succeeded in many cases) to block African American people from exercising their constitutional right to vote and that fact is not front and center in our national conversation. It’s symptomatic of so many problems, the biggest one being racism.
In the end it’s not ISIS or “Muslim Terrorists” or even the Russians who are destroying us. As Walt Kelly said in his Pogo comic strip, we’ve met the enemy and it’s us.
https://humorinamerica.wordpress.com/2014/05/19/the-morphology-of-a-humorous-phrase/
bemused
@JPL:
Did Faux News create that card? Hard to believe it’s an actual Trump Christmas card but who the phuck knows anymore.
The Thin Black Duke
@geg6: Well, if the “minority” gets to tell the rest of us what to do, then they are the country, aren’t they?
satby
@geg6: About 1/2 the voters couldn’t be arsed to even vote. I lump them in with Trump voters (the lazy non-voters, not the disenfranchised ones). It was a defining election, and as a nation, we failed.
Baud
@satby: Don’t forget third party voters. Stein and Johnson did really well.
satby
@Kathleen:
Quoted for truth.
satby
@Baud: Oh, I didn’t. They’re on the list too. Though in fairness, the Johnson voters probably took away from Donny Putinsbitch.
The Thin Black Duke
@Baud: Ralph Nader, the sequel.
Baud
@satby: I’m not so sure. I remember hearing that polls said he took equally away from both.
@The Thin Black Duke: No, this is worse because Nader was recent history we should have learned from.
satby
@Baud: Americans do not do history.
Baud
@satby: Or logic, or basic morality.
p.a.
@The Thin Black Duke: And then the Purity Ponies blame the Dems for the loss: “we disagree with them on 8.5% of issues; it’s their fault they lost for not meeting us 100%”
Betty Cracker
@Baud: Sequels are always worse!
Baud
@JPL: I’ve noticed that the go-to phrase in the War in Christmas is now “Season’s Greetings.” Seeing more of that instead of Happy Holidays.
The fight goes on.
The Thin Black Duke
@p.a.: Yeah. “Moral” victories is a sick fetish that too many alleged progressives struggle with. At least right wing nutjobs understand what winning is.
magurakurin
@Betty Cracker: Not always true. Men in Black Two is as good if not better than One. The dog is awesome in Two.
Baud
@magurakurin: Wrath of Khan was much better than the original Star Trek movie.
JPL
@Baud: A sales clerk said Happy Christmas to me. I was wondering if I should report her to management, since she didn’t say Merry.
The Thin Black Duke
@Baud: As were the sequels to the Terminator and the Godfather.
Botsplainer
Something everyone needs to know – white America offers a lot of mediocrity dressed up as something special. That’s why the visionary, contributors leaders are so rare.
The first three presidents being in that personality spectrum was probably a great assist to enduring institutions. Lincoln was one, the Roosevelts as well. LBJ (fuck LBJ) could have been another, had he not let himself be suckered on Vietnam. Obama could have been in that league, but he was overly optimistic about the American people’s willingness to act in their own self interest to improve their lives – getting black and youth to vote would be a nice start, as well as getting the WWC to vote pocketbook beyond whining about “colored folks getting Obamaphones”.
Trump has been mediocre for 70 years.
Baud
@JPL: I think that’s how they say it in England and Australia.
bemused
@JPL:
Merry Happy Christmas Holidays works for me.
satby
@Baud: Yes, it is.
magurakurin
@The Thin Black Duke: Terminator 2, for sure. And GF 2 is awesome but they are kind of like one movie. Road Warrior is better than Mad Max.
Elizabelle
Good morning, all. Happy last weekend before Christmas weekend.
I hope PBO has some more tricks up his sleeve. Yesterday’s presser left me a bit depressed. We got Sheriff Andy parenting Opie, who had just killed a bird for no reason whatsoever, other than he could.
My little ray of hope: Trump is so appalling, maybe it is his presidency that will sweep away the GOP party’s strength. Too many Americans do not seem to have a good sense of history. Maybe they need to see bad, up close, where it is undeniable.
We seem to be a nation of people more enthused with sports and entertainment than being adults.
msdc
@The Thin Black Duke: Agreed. Out of all the mindreading going on in this post, Summer Brennan probably said it best.
p.a.
@magurakurin:@Baud:
Years ago on one of the ‘premium’ cable channels I saw Mad Max with American voices dubbed in for all dialogue.
msdc
@NobodySpecial: “Kumbaya” is when I stop paying attention. Or any other Palin-approved talking points.
Jeffro
@Kathleen:
Exactly.
I think Dem candidates could get a lot of mileage out of, “We can’t keep electing people to government who hate government…they wreck it, then blame us for not fully cleaning up their messes. Or blame government for not resisting their many temper tantrums. No more. A well-functioning, responsive government is what keeps the basics running well so that everyone can get on with their lives, their businesses, and so on…”
Debbie(aussie)
@JPL: @satby:
We must have had a ‘war on christmas’ since I was a teen (late 70’s). I remember most of the cards I sent said seasons greetings. We now have our own rwnj useless arsehole trying to gin up outrage over this ‘war’, as a distraction from his/their arseholishness. Don’t think, or sincerely hope, it will wash. Aussies have always been pretty secular really.
max
@Betty Cracker: That’s about where I landed after yesterday’s presser. It seemed “normalizing” to me. I don’t expect PBO to be my savior, channel my anger or do anything extra-Constitutional, etc. But it would have been helpful to clearly define the issue we’re facing, and that didn’t happen. Maybe he will at some point, perhaps when the report comes out, but I don’t expect it now.
I listened to the whole damn thing. He’s clearly sticking with position the administration took earlier: the Russians were up to something, we can’t really say what. So he’s going to pass the torch along to the next President, which is all he can do.
The second part about not engaging in extra-constitutional shenanigans to extra-judicially deprive Trump of the Presidency is fine by me. That’s the only way the next election and the election after that occur. They may not occur anyways, but Obama making himself a dictator would end the streak of American elections for sure. And if he did do that, he would be overthrown in fairly short order and we’d get Trump as dictator.
So not going there is fine by me.
The first part about the IC, I have problems with. The story from the day before yesterday about how *some* intelligence agency is leaking anonymously about how they KNOW Vladimir Putin directed a hacking campaign himself was great. Except that 1) how do they know? and if they knew they, they must be deeply inserted into Kremlin networks and almost certainly for a long which 2) begs the question about how they did not know about the hacking campaign in advance. The story raised a bunch of questions without answering any, and Obama is not going to do anything to make that situation better.
In the end we’re down to the word of the IC, which is precisely the crowd that gave us Comey and his announcements about Hill’s emails.
(The IC always says they’re not going to fucking tell you how they know a bunch of stuff because they ‘don’t want to reveal sources and methods’. This actually means one of three things: 1) they don’t actually have the evidence they claim to have, 2) they got the evidence by spying of Americans illegally which they don’t want to admit to, and least likely but always possible 3) they have got the evidence they claim to have but they got it by doing exactly the sort of thing that they can prove our opponents have been doing to us.
Our D senators want to investigate and declassify because the IC is telling a bunch of stuff off the record and they’re relying on the word of the IC, but the IC does not to admit to anything quite possibly because they are lying to our D senators. And Obama is going to leave this state of affairs as is. Needless to say, I deeply disagree with him on that, and on the generally deferential treatment he has given to the IC over his administration.)
max
[‘Donald Trump made himself the Republican nominee but James Comey made him President.’]
Kathleen
@Jeffro: As much as I hate to be “The Glass Is Half Empty” gal, I’m wondering if it’s too late for that message to get through.
LAC
@NobodySpecial: maybe you and Betty can answer what I asked about last night: given what she and her team suspected, should Hilary Clinton have ever conceded?
rachel
@Botsplainer:
What? We wish he were just mediocre.
jake the antisoshul soshulist
@Skippy-san:
The only advantage I can see out of that is that Pence might not start a war accidentally. Unlike Trump Pence is a True Believer. Between Pence and Flynn they might decide to nuke Mecca.
3Jane Tessier-Ashpool (a/k/a Lorinda Pike)
@Kathleen: Same here. Previously, when I would sort of go off the rails (like in 2003, when I bought 3 acres of Canadian dirt) hubby would always tell me, “there are more of us than there are of them” even after Dubya was re-installed. He now says maybe he was wrong, and there are more of them than us.
And it is not normal for someone’s first thought, immediately upon arising and even before coffee, to be about the Electoral College and the various scenarios, which was my first thought this morning. Not normal. At all.
Dadadadadadada
@The Thin Black Duke: Don’t forget The Empire Strikes Back!
ETA: Spiderman 2 (Maguire iteration) was also far better than the original.
Dadadadadadada
@Elizabelle: Wouldn’t you have thought that the Bush II presidency was appalling enough to do what you hope the Trump presidency will do? And yet no one even remembers (only eight years later!) that there even was a Bush II presidency. I fully expect Trumpanzees to cite all of Bush’s failures as precedents that justify Trump failing even worse (eg, an earthquake hits and LA falls into the ocean, and Trump doesn’t even hear about it until a week later, and everyone will say “Oh, that’s fine. Bush did a similar thing with Katrina.”). With the Republican Party, there simply is no bottom.
Dadadadadadada
@3Jane Tessier-Ashpool (a/k/a Lorinda Pike): But after Dubya was re-installed, there really were (barely) more of them, at least in the official ballot tallies. He won the popular vote in ’04.
HILLARY CLINTON WON THE POPULAR VOTE BY ALMOST 3 MILLION. And that’s not even counting the many, many Clinton voters who were barred from voting. This time around, there most definitely are more of us than there are of them.
Skepticat
@Bmaccnm: Spot on.
Uncle Ebeneezer
@OzarkHillbilly: I’m in the same boat (Titanic?!) It’s like Groundhog Day or better yet, Nightmare On Elm Street, only the nightmare starts every time I wake up. Seriously on edge almost 24/7, trying to figure out a way to deal with it because it’s gonna be tough to deal with this much of a psychic toll for a long stretch of time. Takes me back to the miserable months+ after my Mom passed away. Ugh.
Emma
Jesus.
Point one: Trump won the election. Yes, the Electoral College system is crap. Yes, the Russians, the FBI AND the media did their damn best to throw it to Trump, and basically succeeded. But it was the American people who did this. The ones that feed on hate, the ones that can’t be bothered to get off their fat arses, the ignorant. They did this.
Point two: Obama owes us nothing. We elected him and he gave us back eight years of thoughtful, committed government. I hope that as a private citizen he takes on a role, but that is up to him.
Point three: Stop panicking. That is what the bastards want. At least realize that you have options at hand. I have seen discussions here of what each one of us can do and even what we can do as a group but they always end up with the “hair on fire” folk overwhelming the discussion. Personally, I already give to the local United Way through payroll deduction. They do a lot of good here in Miami and you can choose the programs your cash can go to. But I am going to direct some dollars a month to Vote Riders or any other organization fighting the disenfranchising war. As a group, we could pool, say, ten bucks each a month to go to a particular local group in a state we think can be taken back. We could call it The Tunch Bunch.
hovercraft
@bemused:
I just saw the card downstairs, I didn’t read the the thread, but I can’t believe it’s real. Though I guess I’d better get used to constantly re-calibrating what’s possible now that we’ve entered the Twilight Zone.
PsiFighter37
Trump apparently spelled unprecedented incorrectly in a tweet (unpresidented was his spelling). Glad to know we’ve elected a true moron, and not just a narcissist.
Goddamn I hope there are some Republican electors out there with a fucking conscience.
Adrift
@Botsplainer: Wait, does this mean I can’t look forward to my gold plated Trumphone?
Morzer
@NobodySpecial:
Push harder, more publicly and in a more organized way. Don’t expect immediate results. Don’t expect Obama to reverse the results of the election on his own. He’s neither a tyrant nor a king.
Betty Cracker
@LAC: IMO, yes — I don’t think Clinton had a choice. The election was tainted, but there won’t be a do-over, and Trump will become president on 1/20/17. But before he leaves office, I’m hoping PBO will address the American people about this unprecedented intrusion into our internal politics by a hostile foreign power, preferably in prime time, and release as much of the intelligence report he’s ordered on the Russian hacking as he can safely do. I think we need to understand the extent of it and exactly who was helped, i.e., which specific House races were affected and any info our analysts can dig up on Senate contests that were tainted. Trump and his minions in Congress will sweep all of this under the rug otherwise, since they were the beneficiaries.
hovercraft
@satby:
@Baud:
When you add up the total number of people who voted for the Shitgibbon, Stein and Johnson, the majority of the people who voted did vote against her, the only problem with that as a talking point is that just her total is almost 3 million more voting for him than her. Yes the overall turnout numbers were disappointing, but that is the plan, you create so much gridlock that the citizenry become so disgusted in the entire process that they don’t even bother to vote. The voter suppression efforts are a Hydra, all working together with only one goal in mind, to keep the GOP in power.
The biggest “failure” of the democratic party has been to allow the GOP to carry out their multi-pronged voter suppression effort with barely a peep out of the party. Since the 2010 midterms, and Shelby, the execrable Rinse Pribus, has had one goal, to spread this cancer to every corner of the country, to regain the White House for the GOP, while dominating every state apparatus, and congress. For all that he’s a moron, he has succeeded beyond his wildest dreams. We should have been beating the voter suppression drums everyday at every venue, so that when it happened the media would at least give us the time of day, and not just assume that it was sour grapes.
Brachiator
Well, I am off to breakfast and then a morning screening of Rogue One. It will be a welcome break from real world politics and other worries.
Right now about the only thing to say is that it is good to keep the spirit of protest stoked. It will be needed in the months and years ahead.
Adrift
@hovercraft:
That’s a big assumption there, that the media would actually do anything but assume it’s sour grapes. That would require actual work, which is not something to which they are particularly inclined
Morzer
I think Trump’s just told us how he plans to destroy opposition to his various lunacies. It’s going to be billed as re-establishing the rule of law, and all opposition will be presented as lawbreaking, treason etc.
Frank Wilhoit
1. Second-guessing in a situation that is truly and comprehensively unprecedented is merely posturing.
2. Posturing is one of theirs, it is not one of ours.
3. So is panicking.
4. The Republican Party does not have the sense, or the nerve, or the endurance, or the internal consensus to map out a path and follow it. They can only flounder.
5. Their floundering will generate a tremendous amount of collateral damage.
6. There is exactly fkkk-all that anyone, in any position, inside or outside “government”, inside or outside this country, can do to prevent that. (Local mitigations may be possible.)
7. There is no messaging strategy or tactics, whether framed as rational discourse or as storytelling — at this time. No one is listening.
8. Some day, even if that day is centuries from now, someone will again be listening.
9. Our obligation is to leave a record for them, whomever, wherever, or whenever they may be.
The rest is gaming out the endgames.
The Christian endgame is the Khmer Rouge endgame: tear down the cities and drive everyone back onto the land.
The business endgame is to impoverish their employees and customers until the economy flatlines — and then sit in the rubble, in genuine and total bewilderment.
The military-industrial-complex endgame is to erase Islam from the Earth and from history.
The alt-right endgame is to erase liberalism from the territory and history of one nation at a time.
There is some potential overlap among some of these, but it is already apparent that the business endgame is the odd man out and therefore the least likely.
Trump is not a historical actor. All he knows is that he opens his mouth and (for the time being, at least) people seem to like what comes out. That feedback loop is his universe. As long as it is working, he will “trust” the people who are telling him what to say. The moment it falters, he will revert to busking and seek new advice. This has already happened a couple of times. The one thing that all of Trump’s handlers and would-be handlers understand is that the key to keeping the feedback loop running is to keep the right audience in front of him.
cmorenc
@Baud:
If we had ranked voting- (where voters indicated both 1st and 2nd choices, and if their 2nd choice got more 1st place votes from other voters than their own 1st choice, their 2nd choice counts toward that candidate’s total) – a vote for Stein, Johnson, or Nader would be sensible. Likewise, if we had a multi-party Parliamentary system where the party with the most support nevertheless needed to form a coalition government with one or more of the lesser parties – it might be effective. BUT WE DON’T. Under our present system where the two major parties have effectively locked meaningful third parties and candidates out of governance, third-party voting is pissing into a headwind – and the major party their vote is most likely to indirectly benefit is nearly always the one most repugnant to what their third-party vote is meant to stand for. And said major party is nearly free of any disincentives to not just ignore, but piss in the face of these third-party voters. And yet, there is still an abundance of totally unrepentant Nader 2000 voters out there, including in Florida – as there will be Stein and Johnson voters a year or two hence, even as Trump and the GOP are fire-bombing everything they hold dear to cinders.
You Johnson voters who supported him in part because he’s in favor of legalizing pot everywhere? Incoming Attorney General Jeff Sessions might just harbor some notions about rather quickly using federal law and enforcement to shut down states which have legalized recreational pot, and even medical pot.
crawdad
Now you can fact-check Trump’s tweets — in the tweets themselves
hovercraft
@Adrift:
I always assume the worst of the GOP toes sucking, pile of yak refuse that is the corporate media, but if every single time they had interviewed democrats over the last 6 years they had brought up voter suppression, used as examples the PA asshole who after Obama won in 2012, celebrated that their efforts had succeeded in cutting Obama’s margin of victory in half, the GOP when they want to do something are relentless in repeating their talking points in every single appearance, we should have done that. The media would still ask if it was sour grapes, but the viewers would recognize that it was something the dems had been saying consistently for years. The GOP understands that repetition works, it bypasses the gatekeeper and penetrates the minds of the viewers.
hovercraft
@crawdad:
Much, much, much , too late.
The patient is already flat-lining.
3Jane Tessier-Ashpool (a/k/a Lorinda Pike)
@Dadadadadadada: You are correct, as are many comments below yours. I don’t know if we need to be louder (which is sometimes difficult, because media spins) or what. At this point I have no idea, because everything still seem fluid.
Right now, I am being obstinate, with a dash of resolute. I’ll likely work up to livid, then entertain being a total asshole for a while. Haven’t been that in years.
But I’m not going quietly, that’s for sure.
Tyro
He won’t, because he feels that would undermine trust in American institutions.
EBT
@satby: History is nothing but humans ignoring history.
Mnemosyne
@Botsplainer:
This was about 10 years ago, but here in LA, a disgruntled ex-husband massacred his ex-wife and her entire extended family on Christmas Eve before offing himself. All while dressed as Santa Claus.
So count your blessings.
(I’m not linking to the story because it’s too fucking depressing, but it can be easily Googled.)
Jim, Foolish Literalist
What the fuck does this even mean?
Mnemosyne
@Kathleen:
Frankly, I am also concerned that there’s something else going on that Obama can’t talk about and is powerless against, like a credible coup threat if Trump is not allowed to take office. But I’m apparently Little Mary Sunshine right about fucking now.
Mk3873
Will the “Blame Obama first” crowd continue to be vocal about just how disappointed in him they are in the Trump era?
God, I hope not. Listening to their whining for 8 years was by far the worst part of those 8 years.
The demands for their soecial ponies & angry Obama wrote a 1000 Politico stories titled “Obama disappoints Dems”.
Well, now you get 4 years of a government run by people who’s entire agenda will be undoing everything Obama accomplished. So that will give them all some time to contemplate those thoughts.
Because I can assure of there were plenty of those special snowflakes in November in PA, MI, WI who stayed home or voted Stein.
And now they want Obama to use his magical POTUS powers to fix their mess.
Hildebrand
There is one section of the presser yesterday that I found to be incredibly important, and one that I think we should be highlighting.
The whole thing is a pretty devastating critique of both the Russians and the Republicans. Why are we not focusing on this?
Jinchi
@JPL:
She’s obviously a British foreign agent.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Tyro: if he had said “I feel your anger”, Trump would have melted, melted! Meeellllllt-ED!
Shut the fuck up, you.
NeenerNeener
@Hildebrand: Yep, that’s Cleek’s Law.
tobie
@Hildebrand: The first three paragraphs that you quote struck me as the most important part of the press conference. In some ways the statement was predictable coming from a man who made it his mission–successful or not–to unite reds states and blue states. In essence he was saying the Russians can drive a wedge between us if we are already divided. What was different, though, was the emphasis on two points. Our divisions are no longer just paralyzing government. They are making us susceptible to sabotage as a nation. And secondly that sabotage could well lead to an overturning of all democratic (small d) principles. He didn’t mince words here. We could well become a country where:
Obama being Obama, he didn’t say this in a shrill voice. And it’s so alarming that part of me wishes he had. But he did in a calm voice say this is the threat we could be facing. I think I’ll write a letter to my local right-wing rag just to underscore this point.
brendancalling
Re: Summer Brennan’s tweet. If I’m honest, that would probably be the way I feel after 8 years of the hard right, the tea party, and the professional left too. “I tried my best, you didn’t appreciate it, look what you did know, get fucked”.
There is only so much you can do before you walk away.
LAC
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: I know. it is like listening to Charlie brown’s teacher on a crystal meth binge.
@Betty Cracker: so all I get is one line about Clinton. In this unprecedent time when everything is suggested from martial law, to Obama DO SOMETHING extra judicial or illegal or green hornet like, but Clinton had no choice to fight? Ok…
Brachiator
@Mnemosyne: BTW, I understand that the Museum of Fashion Design,etc downtown LA has dresses and artefacts going back to 1800. You are working on a Regency novel, right? If you haven’t already seen this stuff, might be interesting.
SgrAstar
@Emma: Love your idea, Emma. We’re organizing this in my own family right now. Collective action is invigorating. Resist!
trollhattan
@Hildebrand:
Seems direct and on-the-nose to me.
chopper
@PsiFighter37:
I wonder how many people reacted with sheer joy to read “trump” and “unpresidented” in the same sentence.
smintheus
It is up to us. At a minimum, we have to make corporate media pay for playing up to Trump by organizing boycotts of cable news (if that means cutting the cord completely, so be it) and cancelling subscriptions to newspapers like the NYT that decided to run interference by ginning up trivializing attacks on Clinton.
That is how you change the national discourse about Trump: By making corporate media afraid of losing eyeballs. If we don’t hold the corporate media’s feet to the fire, then what we’ll get is a re-run of their cozy coverage of the execrable Reagan administration.
Betty Cracker
@LAC: Sorry, I didn’t realize you had a minimum word requirement on my response about Clinton. BTW, I get a sense from our exchanges that you assume I think Clinton walks on water and don’t appreciate Obama. If so, you couldn’t be more wrong. I was an early Obama supporter in 2008, argued with PUMA assholes nonstop during that primary and think he’s been an excellent president. I do not, however, believe he is incapable of error. Neither is Clinton, obviously, and when she’s done something I’ve disagreed with, I’ve said so.
For the record, I haven’t said jackshit about PBO imposing martial law or doing anything illegal or extra-judicial. I’ve been pretty clear about what I hope he’ll do, which is frame the challenge we face with foreign interference in our elections in clear terms and provide us with all the info he can so we’ll know which Republicans are possibly beholden to a hostile foreign power. That doesn’t seem like too much to hope for to me. YMMV.
Elie
@Kathleen:
This, Kathleen. THiS. It rings of deep truth…
Obama is looking thin and very drawn these days. There is no obvious thing he can do to fix this. It was up to us, collectively and for whatever reason, we did not do it — we did not save our republic. But I tell you what, we know what is what now, don’t we? We know, as we should have always known, that its up to us. ONLY. Up to us. All the assholes that had their moment voting for purity candidates or against that horrible woman, will get to enjoy the next phase and remember their choices and why. For the folks who voted for Trump — well I got nothing. Enjoy losing your Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security. If it didn’t hurt me and mine as much, I would celebrate your suffering to come. You earned every bit of it…
TriassicSands
The “Call” comes in at 3am. However, Trump’s aides inform the media that Trump can’t be interrupted right now — he’s busy insulting people on Twitter.
There is important and then there is Twitter.
Mnemosyne
@Elie:
I voted for Nader in CA in 2000, so I can say from personal experience that if the people who voted third party or left that line blank have any conscience at all, they have been waking up every morning feeling sick to their stomachs, and that feeling will never quite go away. Ever. Especially when you watch a whole nation of people make the exact same mistake all over again even though you tried to warn them how they would feel afterwards.
NR
@satby: So the Democratic party can’t fail, it can only be failed. Good to know.
Shomi
@NR:
Oh goody, Not a Russian is here to fuck another a thread. Go bother some other blog please.
NR
@Shomi: Nice to see that you guys have gone from “Everyone we don’t like is a secret Republican” to “Everyone we don’t like is a secret Russian.” I look forward to seeing how much more ridiculous you guys can get.
Tyro
In 1861, did voters say, “I don’t blame James Buchanan for sitting around doing nothing while the south secedes. He owes us nothing. It’s us that failed, not him” ?
Shomi
@NR:
First off, since when do I speak for all the commenters and front pagers on this blog? I only speak for myself. We’re not a hive mind like you bizarrely seemed to think.
Second, I’m not being entirely serious when I say “Not a Russian”. All you ever do is shit on everything and everybody here by being an obnoxious contrarian, so I figure I return the favor.
Lastly, in case you’re too stupid to have noticed (which is likely) I’m trolling you, you loser. Now that you have a clue, get lost.
NR
@Shomi: It’s not being contrarian to point out when you guys are wrong about something. Which is quite often.
And nah, I won’t get lost. Thanks for thinking of me though.
Shomi
@NR:
Whatever loser, you usually come and stink up threads when they’re about to die anyway so nobody sees your bullshit. Will be ignoring you from now on; which seems like something you are unable to do.
NR
@Shomi: It’s pretty hilarious that you felt the need to reply to my comment, hurl a couple of childish insults my way, try to tell me to get lost, and then loudly announce that you were going to be ignoring me. The last time I saw a display like that was from my six year-old nephew. But go ahead. You do you.
liberal
@The Thin Black Duke: Uh, because he was granted great power, and with great power comes great responsibility? Just a thought.
liberal
@Betty Cracker:
Is there any evidence at all to suggest there’s a legal impediment to him ordering the entire thing (with possibly a few names redacted) declassified?
liberal
@Mk3873:
Remind me again…who was the genius who appointed Comey?
liberal
@Jeffro: BIggest problem is getting people to understand that no government means a Hobbesian war of all against all.
Decades of propaganda from fucking libertarian filth is hard to undo.
Shomi
@NR:
Love you too honey ♡
NR
@Shomi: Coming back in a few minutes after shouting that you were going to be ignoring me? That’s something the six year-old nephew did too. Pretty funny.
TriassicSands
@Mk3873:
Certainly part of the Trump/GOP agenda over the next four years will be undoing Obama’s accomplishments. It would be bad enough if that is their “entire agenda.” However, simply undoing Obama is a small part of what they have in store for the country. The real agenda is what goes beyond undoing Obama’s legacy and seeks to create the right wing hell that they so desperately want.
While Obama has a fine set of accomplishments, it is small potatoes when compared with what the Republicans want to do. They don’t simply want to turn back the clock to 2008, they want to turn it back to before the New Deal and in some cases to the 19th century. Worrying about Obama’s legacy is not seeing the bigger picture. Our entire social safety net is at risk. Voting rights and race relations are imperiled. International stability is endangered. The list goes on and on.
Shomi
I think it’s hilarious that you keep responding to every inane thing I utter. Almost as if you can’t help it. Like you’re obsessed. Kinda like its compulsive. Hmm..
Adds whole ‘nother layer of creepy to you comparing me to a six year old. You should talk to someone about that.
NR
@Shomi: You act like a six year old, you’ll get compared to a six year old. Pretty simple.
Anyway, I thought you were ignoring me?
Shomi
@NR:
I changed my mind. Anyway, have you given serious consideration to getting professional help for your… problem?
NR
@Shomi:
Why am I not surprised? I expect you’ll change it again soon and loudly stomp out of here again.
You’re very entertaining, I’ll give you that.
Major Major Major Major
I was going to post about how ironic it is that right wingers are having a butthurt about how dangerous it is that a Maine gas station won’t sell heating oil to Trump voters, given how wingers feel about their right to withhold lifesaving medical care based on their deeply held adherence to a Roman death cult.
I was going to but then I saw that this thread is already ruined. So I’ll save my post for later. Bye!
notoriousJRT
@Emma:
I like your thinking.
Applejinx
I liked this part:
Seeing that I was in New Hampshire seeing Democrats literally not bother to canvass rural voters, seeing what we’ve seen about Democrats literally refusing to cover places like Michigan because (a) they’re depressing and doomed and (b) can be taken for granted, I think Barack Obama was uncommonly tactful in saying ‘where people FEEL AS IF THEY are not being heard’.
They’re not. The mainstream liberal angle is ‘go get a job in the city, and keep moving, especially out of your stupid hellhole home town’.
We are plainly not in those communities, it’s on purpose, it did make a difference, and I don’t blame Obama for being all ‘srsly, fuck you people’. He didn’t fail you, you failed him. Celebrities and big cities did not carry the day. Clearly not enough deplorables are dead yet, huh?
He started AS A COMMUNITY ORGANIZER. What happened in the Rust Belt was a damn slap in the face and the results, awful as they are, are deserved.
Personally, I think if Clinton had won, it would have produced a violent right-wing revolution. So, careful what you wish for, Trump-ites. The way things are headed, we could well see a violent LEFT wing revolution. I would not shed many tears to see what passes for ‘Republican democracy and justice’ torn the fuck down.
burnspbesq
@Skippy-san:
If you think “President Pence” is the answer, I have to think you don’t fully understand the question.
LAC
@liberal: @Betty Cracker:
A long read but might some perspective as to what this all entails. Darn stupid laws, huh?
https://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/executive-order-classified-national-security-information
Skippy-san
@burnspbesq: I don’t think Pence is the answer to anything. But I still want Trump gone.
artem1s
I’m not sure what everyone was expecting. I certainly wasn’t expecting Obama to call for marshall law or anything. I do expect he meant it when he said there were going to be repercussions for the tampering. I don’t know how much of it any of us will ever see.
I don’t know how he is supposed to look or talk while facing a genuine Constitutional crisis. I don’t think it matters if I believe he owes us anything. I kinda think that is just who he is. I can believe that he thought he was done with this part of his life. But I can also see him coming to the realization, pretty quickly, that if he wants his daughters to have a safe place to grow up in this world, he isn’t going to get that by hanging out at home writing his memoirs.
I also remember this guy stood, cool as a cucumber and told jokes while Seal Team 6 were killing Osama bin Ladin on his orders.
MzRAD
Uh…DFT (the F is for Fucking) got raked over the coals in public by BHO in that WHC dinner a few years back. We see how this guy does payback: why does POTUS think PEOTUS will listen to the man who slandered his stupidity about birth certificate and being a dumbass reality teevee guy? “You’re fired” indeed!
BTW Grumps McCole: your new house is looking great! You still need a greenhouse off the kitchen for winter greens and herbs (and melons in the summer?) so get those frat kids on the case. You won’t regret it: you should listen to us from California because you should. ; 0
MAKE IT SO.
!!!
fuckwit
I have said for the last 8 years: Obama is our Gorbachev.
A decent man, trying desperately to save the institutions that he loves, and presiding (literally) over the collapse of all of them, despite his best efforts.
Today Gorbachev is mostly hated in Russia, because he was trying to save a system that most people there had lost faith in long before, and wanted destroyed anyway. He could not restore their faith in it by trying to reform it. It had already died.
Western-style Democracy is dead. Our institutions– every last one of them– have failed.
Well not every last one; the last remaining institution that could save us is the much-maligned Electoral College, which votes on Monday. I have zero faith that it will do the right thing and invalidate this election due to evidence of Russian hacking.
If that last institution fails, we are done as a society. If it holds, we have a glimmer of hope, but a very tough fight ahead.