There’s an interesting op-ed in the Washington Post today by Hungarian author and human rights advocate Miklos Haraszti. It’s entitled, “I watched a populist leader rise in my country. That’s why I’m genuinely worried for America.” In the piece, Haraszti discusses the parallels between Trump and Viktor Orbán, president of Hungary and pal of Putin. This part struck me as true:
Call me a typical Hungarian pessimist, but I think hope can be damaging when dealing with populists. For instance, hoping that unprincipled populism is unable to govern. Hoping that Trumpism is self-deceiving, or self-revealing, or self-defeating. Hoping to find out if the president-elect will have a line or a core, or if he is driven by beliefs or by interests. Or there’s the Kremlinology-type hope that Trump’s party, swept to out-and-out power by his charms, could turn against him. Or hope extracted, oddly, from the very fact that he often disavows his previous commitments.
Those of us who watched Trump roll over every institutional barrier like a monster truck over speed bumps made of packing peanuts might well wonder what can stop the bastard. But Haraszti points out that would-be autocrats can be undone by their own greed:
I have plenty of gloomy don’t-dos, but few proven trump cards. There is perhaps one mighty exception, the issue of corruption, which the polite American media like to describe as “conflicts of interest.”
It is the public’s moral indignation over nepotism that has proved to be the nemesis of illiberal regimes. Personal and family greed, cronyism, thievery combined with hypocrisy are in the genes of illiberal autocracy; and in many countries betrayed expectations of a selfless strongman have led to a civic awakening.
Of course, that requires media outlets to investigate and publicize the massive grift in which Trump, Inc. is now gearing up to engage. In the morning thread comments, Kay isn’t optimistic about that. And she’s right to note the general lack of MSM coverage of Trump’s unprecedented and poorly understood conflicts of interests — it’s worrying as hell to see so many media outlets treat this absurdity as the new normal.
But the WaPo was a bright spot during the campaign and may be again during the coming grift-binge. Just this morning, the paper published an editorial lauding Trump for shuttering his “foundation” (while recounting its dodgy nature) but pointing out that it is small potatoes in the scheme of things:
Mr. Trump now must tackle even bigger decisions. He has yet to detail how he will sever his ties with the business he built, but he should strive for a clean break, not only for propriety but also for his own credibility. If he hopes to be a productive leader, he will need all the political strength he can muster, and his capital could be badly sapped by questions about whether outsiders tried to buy influence through his family business. Mr. Trump long ago promised to make public his tax returns, as have other presidential candidates for years, but he has never done so.
It is hard to read Mr. Trump’s compass on these issues. On one hand, he has been outspoken in demanding a break from business as usual, including close ties between policymaking, lobbying and federal contracting. He promises to “drain the swamp” in Washington. However, he seems less eager to act when it involves his own business and family. Before the inauguration, Mr. Trump should declare a zero-tolerance policy toward conflicts of interest and impropriety — especially his own.
The Post is allegedly hiring “dozens of reporters,” perhaps sensing that they’ll need reinforcements to cover the world-historical scam operation that will be the Trump administration. If all the new hires are in the mold of David Fahrenthold, Trump may, ironically, have a hand in making journalism great again. Here’s hoping.
[Illustration is a photo I took in Budapest in the 1990s.]
Yutsano
It is really tempting to get a subscription to WaPo just for this reason alone. And to buy from Amazon as much as possible so Bezos and Cole can keep rolling.
comrade scott's agenda of rage
As someone who is a Fed and watched the Bushies throw out the playbook in their zeal to loot the Treasury, you ain’t seen nothing yet. Cheetoh Donnie and crew will do this on steroids. Everything that they can outsource, they’ll outsource. They’ll look to how Cheney funneled billions to Haliburton as a template on how they’ll funnel to Trump-related enterprises.
I have a year left until retirement. Hopefully they won’t take that way. People behind me won’t be so lucky.
I dearly wish ill on the 80K voters in the 3 counties in WI, MI and PA who effectively swung the election to the shitgibbon because they have wreaked havoc on millions.
Elizabelle
Good post, Betty. And beautiful photograph.
Kay mentioned the reforms passed in the wake of Watergate. Maybe that is what it will take, Trump blowing up and taking a lot of the old boys with him, to get some reforms and protections.
I like California’s initiative about disclosing tax returns.
Those norms were there to protect us.
Betty Cracker
@Yutsano: I ditched the NYT for WaPo before the election because of all-emails-all-the-time coverage from the NYT, and I haven’t regretted it. WaPo employs more than its share of tools (Cillizza, opinion page neocons and war crime advocates, etc.), but I’m willing to put up with a dozen hacks for one Fahrenthold.
Jerzy Russian
That last sentence is analogous to me asking that the adults around me remember their toilet training. I would’t think that should be a necessary thing for me to do, but apparently in this day and age it is.
Elizabelle
@Betty Cracker: They’ve done some amazing reporting on health/death in the middle and declining classes.
Learned that funeral homes in Kentucky and elsewhere need to keep an extra set of embalming chemicals for those who died of meth/other overdoses. It has become that prevalent.
Meanwhile at the NYTimes: Emails! (And goosing people to give NYT subscriptions. Uh, no thanks. You just showed us the feces appended to what you’re selling as a sable coat.)
Yarrow
This man in speaking my language.
From the WaPo editorial:
Trump wants to enrich himself and his family and to consolidate power for himself and them. Nothing else matters. He doesn’t have any interest in being a “productive leader” unless “productive leader” and “enriching himself and family and consolidating power” align. When that happens he will be a “productive leader” but it won’t be his first goal.
His weakness seems to be that he wants to be loved and respected. Deny him those things and his ego will kick in and he’ll respond. Of course he’s a crazy person who has access to tremendous power including powerful nuclear weapons. So maybe people won’t want to upset him.
japa21
I distrust anyone who lauds Trump for shuttering his foundation. He is obviously only doing it in the hope it will stop the investigation not for any “to avoid the conflict of interest’ motive.
Yet, WaPo may be the only major media outlet to actually try to expose Trump.
What will be interesting is if any other media outlets pick up on what the WaPo reports, like they always did with anything Fox New would report, no matter how lame it may have been.
Yarrow
@Elizabelle: I saw that Steeplejack linked the first post you asked about (the McConnell discussion I mentioned). Here is the second post. It has more detail from Adam Silverman.
Kristine
@japa21:
That could also be excessive politeness for form’s sake, a heavily-veiled “big whoop, now what?”. Given the tone of the rest of the editorial, I’m leaning in that direction.
It would be nifty neato if the WaPo set the stage for a second impeachment.
Yarrow
@japa21:
It’s also a distraction. “Look over there! I’m closing my foundation! Don’t look over here at my business dealings.”
gbear
@Betty Cracker: I bought a subscription to the WaPo this month for the same reasons. The NYT has been dismal. They had the nerve to post a story on Monday about how an Oklahoma paper has been abandoned because they supported Hillary. I know that a lot of people bailed out on the NYT due to their election coverage.
Yarrow
@gbear: I wish someone would look into the business dealings and ties of the NYT owners and other top people. There has to be something there. Perhaps the Russians are blackmailing the NYT?
cmorenc
That’s because Trump has no compass other than his narcissistic vanity, gluttony and sociopathic drive to do whatever is expedient to further those ends. Everything else is just smoke and mirrors.
Betty Cracker
@Kristine: That was how I read it too: “Okay, you’ve shut down your corrupt-ass ‘foundation,’ which WaPo reporting exposed as a giant fraud; now address the other massive conflicts of interest.”
germy
From what I understand, he can’t “shutter” it until the NY Att. Gen. finishes his investigation?
Ridnik Chrome
I’ve been to Hungary twice and know a bit about its history. It’s a much different country than the United States. Smaller and more homogeneous, for starters. They also have fascist and totalitarian regimes in their recent past (they were part of the Axis during World War Two, and the Communist Bloc for forty years afterward). I would be cautious about trying to map the Hungarian experience onto our own.
gbear
@Yarrow: I think it’s more likely that the NYT’s management are just gutless when it comes to battling the far right.
Baud
The NYT is garbage.
tpherald
It would be great to see more of this from our side over these difficult next couple of years:
That exact same sentence can have the object “journalism” replaced with other important institutions like “Democrats”.
That’s the positive effect that we must have in order to bring some sunlight to the coming dark days.
Elizabelle
@gbear: Could be that.
Could also be they made their own disaster hire with Dean Baquet and who he brought in to cover the 2016 election. Also the moron public editor.
Something’s going really wrong at the NY Times. It’s coming from inside the house.
Yarrow
@gbear: You could definitely be right. But it’s worth investigating, no?
@cmorenc:
Exactly. It’s frustrating to read articles and columns and posts where they want to attribute other motives. Trump isn’t that hard to understand and he tells us who he is. Why do people not want to believe him?
Another Scott
@Ridnik Chrome: Indeed. Hungary’s legislature isn’t close to evenly divided the way it is in the US – the ruling coalition has almost 67% of the seats there.
Hungary is a cautionary tale, but we’re not there yet – not by a long shot. And we won’t get there if we’re willing to fight them every single day.
Cheers,
Scott.
Baud
@tpherald: Or “progressives.”
John
I think there’s one major difference between Trump and the populists in Europe: I don’t know Hungary’s particular situation, but the right-wingers in Europe have indeed brought direct, real benefits to their core supporters. In essence they’ve bought their votes with tangible benefits. In contrast, the Trump administration appears to be gearing up toward bending their supporters over, maximizing their short-term gain but (all else being equal) virtually guaranteeing that they won’t vote for him a second time. The problem is the “all else being equal” part of that statement. The attack of the Trump administration and its surrogates on the fundamental nature of what is true and what are facts, plus the abject failure of our educational system to teach evidence-based decision making, suggests that Trump voters can easily be convinced that what is bad for them is good, and vice versa. A la 1984.
Kristine
@Ridnik Chrome:
Been wondering about this. Given the differences in population and past history between the US and the autocratic regimes being discussed here and elsewhere, are we really inclined to fall down that rabbit hole?
I know every regime started somewhere, but is it really likely here?
germy
Baud
@John: Agree. Populists usually have to produce the goods. We’ll see.
ThresherK
While waiting at a shop I glimpsed at Ross Douthat’s column today. I am not looking this up (no clicks for Douthat) bit I think he also said something about Trump a la
So, anytime someone writes that it immediately goes in the bin of suspect thoughts.
John
I’ve also been thinking about the how social media influenced the vote among baby boomers and the elderly. These groups have been plunged, willing or not, into an environment of massive informational overload, yet because they did not have computers growing up, they lack the intellectual tools to sort the real from the fake, instead accepting all information coming their way as “true” — just as they did if they were watching Peter Jennings on the nightly network newscast. That, combined with the fact that they can isolate themselves in an online echo chamber of their own choosing, creates a population that is seriously vulnerable to manipulation.
Betty Cracker
@Yarrow: I’d recommend reading the whole editorial instead of the excerpt alone. I don’t think they believe him. They’re needling the bastard, pointing out his hypocrisy and asserting standards for good government that he is in the process of violating, and good for them.
@Ridnik Chrome: True, but the op-ed author’s point is that corruption is a weak spot for would-be autocrats, and it certainly is for Trump, if enough people are outraged by it. Lord knows it will be a target-rich environment, if we have journalists, whistleblowers and opposition politicians with the guts to make an issue of it.
Rand Careaga
Perhaps I’m being unduly alarmist here, but I hope that Farenthold and any other aggressive investigative reporters have all kept their estate planning up-to-date. I’d be dismayed but not altogether surprised if inconvenient journalists start being mysteriously shot in doorways over the coming years.
Yarrow
@John: I thought a study was done showing that high school and college students are particularly bad at telling real stories from fake stuff on the internet. Saw something about that during the election. Not sure it’s just baby boomers and older, although you analysis seems sound about them as well.
Yarrow
@Betty Cracker: I’ll read it. Thanks. My comment was more in general that it seems people are bending over backwards to ascribe positive motives in what Trump does and turn him into some kind of statesman. It’s not that hard. He’s in it for the grift and the power.
John
Thresher: While I appreciate the “no clicks for Douthat” sentiment, you do realize that you are isolating yourself in an echo chamber to no less of an extent than the angry 70-year-old shouting at Fox News? I read this garbage, I even read Brietbart. You have to know what kind of toxic garbage they are spewing to truly understand the environment in which we operate. Man or woman up and choke it down, it’s neither nutritious or pleasant but it is something you need to know.
zhena gogolia
@Yutsano:
The WaPo opeds are lightyears ahead of the Times.
Ridnik Chrome
@Betty Cracker: You bring up another big difference. Our major media may be corrupt and largely useless, but we do at least have the tradition of an independent press, another thing that Hungary doesn’t.
Kay
I love all the advice from other countries. I read all of it.
I think David Fahrenthold is wonderful, but don’t forget that Fahrenthold was relying upon a regulatory structure to unravel the foundation. Trump had to report because there are laws and rules that force him to report. The only way to reach Trump is when Trump brushes up against a regulation.
Everyone cites “Spotlight” as the modern example of great investigatory reporting but recall that the Spotlight team couldn’t have gotten there without records kept by the Catholic Church. That’s where they saw the notations on priests and that’s where they found the pattern. The other key piece for Spotlight? Court process and the rules of civil procedure. Another elaborate, rule-bound entity, courts and civil process. Behind Spotlight is institutions operating.
Trump has been sued for 50 years. He knows how to avoid disclosure. He knows how to evade discovery This will be hard. He will game it at every turn. He’ll throw them a bone like the foundation and they’ll go fetch and meanwhile he’s not addressing the business interests. He’s been doing this for decades. He’s good at it.
hovercraft
This is the huge question, more Farenthold’s and I will gift every person I know with a subscription. But why the fuck is this happening now? The shitgibbon ran for a year and a half with one lonely ‘reporter’ digging into his financial dealings. David K. Johnston and Kurt Eichenwald were too biased and shrill to be taken seriously or widely quoted. But that means our entire media failed to do it’s job, it is not enough that a few are now moving to address their failure.
The scope of this failure is on par with their failure during the run up to the Iraq war, the consequences of which are still killing hundreds if not thousands daily, 13 years later, ( Syria, Iraq, Yemen). The media must stand up and issue a mea culpa, they are the ‘fourth estate’ because they have a duty to inform the public. They failed to do this on an epic level, instead of providing information to the public, they sought to entertain us, and now we find ourselves in a place where their failure led to a large swath of uninformed voters electing a ignorant narcissist as our next president, the consequences of this could be calamitous for the entire world.
The first part of becoming sober is admitting that you have a problem, the media have to admit they have a problem, until then they will not be able to stop their continuing slide into irrelevance, which will be a problem since we actually need a functioning media. We have hundreds of channels available to entertain us, can’t we have just a handful to inform us?
Elizabelle
@John: I dunno there.
There’s a difference between staying informed and wallowing in it.
No one pays me to read Douthat columns. So I never have.
John
@Yarrow: That is interesting, I’ll look for that study. I have no doubt that younger people are subject to the same phenomenon, but I’d hope that they’d be relatively less susceptible to it. BIG emphasis on “hope” — without seeing a comparative study we won’t know. In any case, as I was talking about with my girlfriend, a teacher, there is a major opportunity to teach evidence-based decision making from the ground up.
Yarrow
@Ridnik Chrome: I’m concerned about a “tradition” of independent press. Norms fell all over the place in this election. A tradition is pretty vulnerable. And our press seems to be fairly willing to roll over for those in power. Threaten a few reporters’ families, maybe one of them winds up dead. Bring a court case or two against some higher-ups in media organizations for unrelated issues and bankrupt them. There are all sorts of ways to squeeze the media. They’ve been losing money for two decades or more. They’re vulnerable.
hovercraft
OT Sorry. But just once I’d like one of these assholes to not be as evil as one thinks they are.
SC Rep. Who Defended Confederate Flag Allegedly Beat, Pointed Gun At Wife
……The Aiken County Sheriff’s Office charged Rep. Chris Corley (R) with first-degree domestic violence and pointing and presenting a firearm for the Monday incident, according to the Post and Courier. The newspaper reported that Corley was released after posting $20,000 bail on the condition that he have no contact with his wife or be in possession of a firearm.
According to an incident report obtained by the Post and Courier, Corley’s wife told police that he punched her in the face repeatedly in front of two children, aged 2 and 8, after he had been “caught cheating.” She alleged that he only stopped hitting her when the children began screaming and he saw blood coming from her head. Corley then allegedly retrieved a handgun from a vehicle outside, pointed it at her, and said he was going to kill himself before going into a bedroom, according to his wife.
The two federal charges Corley faces carry a maximum collective sentence of 15 years in prison.
The Palmetto State Republican made national headlines last year for his strong support for keeping the Confederate battle flag at the Statehouse after Dylann Roof’s racially-motivated murder of nine parishioners at a historically black church in Charleston. Last December, after his colleagues voted to remove it, he sent out a Christmas card that showed the Statehouse with the Confederate flag in the foreground and a message that they should “ask for forgiveness for all your sins such as betrayal.”….
germy
@Yarrow: The woman from Teen Vogue who debated bowtie man has been receiving rape threats.
The incoming admin. doesn’t have to threaten anyone if they don’t feel like it (or if bullets cost too much), their fans will do the job for free.
JPL
@Kay: Washington Post hired Marty Baron from the Boston Globe, so hopefully they will unleash a team, to study Trump’s finances.
Yarrow
@John:
Here you go:
Yarrow
@Elizabelle: Did you see that I linked the other post above?
StringOnAStick
@germy: The rethugs are most definitely worried about Obama’s post-presidency plans, and they should be given what I saw at the OFA meeting last night. He has plans, and I plan to be right there too.
Elizabelle
@Yarrow: I did. Thank you much. Skimmed and bookmarked both of them.
Kay
Something else is happening too. Republicans are starting to frame disclosure and ethics rules as “regulations” and they are anti-regulatory. This is how they destroyed campaign finance laws. As government interference.
That’s what Newt Gingrich is doing. He’s changing a frame. They will frame this as pesky do-gooders infringing on “rights” and the GOP base will fall for it. Lewandowski is also doing this. He calls his lobbying shop a “small business”- the clear implication is ethics and conflict laws would stand in the way of markets.
They’ll turn this over to private actors- the argument will be that people had information on Trump and political markets priced it in and elected him anyway. Trump said this himself. They’ll say political markets (elections) and media are sufficient regulation- that information markets will function best without regulation. Remember what they did to campaign finance? It’s the same argument.
Yarrow
@germy: You’re right there. All it takes is one unhinged “Pizzagate” type person that doesn’t get caught early enough.
Another Scott
@John: One doesn’t need to look elsewhere, there are examples right here from the recent past. Not to pour salt in any wounds, but there were several days of vociferous arguments right here about the Rolling Stone piece about UVA. From the beginning, most of the commenters (including me) had strong opinions about the piece. TTP was probably closest to being right about the story, but he got a lot of push-back.
All of us have preconceived notions about truth and accuracy and all the rest and it’s hard to overcome those biases. Being “internet savvy” isn’t any guaranteed protection.
Cheers,
Scott.
Yarrow
@Elizabelle: You’re welcome. The second thread, the one I linked, has more discussion than the first. Adam Silverman’s observations about McConnell are interesting.
Botsplainer
I give Putin until January 21 to have regrets, when idiot tells Netanyahu to do anything he wants, with full US military backing.
I have a sneaky feeling that ISIS could in fact have been an Israeli-created distraction. With renewed emphasis on expanded settlements, the temptation to push into southern Lebanon (with concomitant bombings of Beirut, as always) will be too much for that asshole to resist. He gets a new security zone which can become future lebensraum, and can target weakened enemies at the same time. Putin is now cozy with Iran, has Assad’s back, and is playing nice with Turkey (which can probably number the months it will remain in NATO on one hand).
Netanyahu is a strategic thinking fuckup of the first order. He can upend everything with his blind stupidity, and will undoubtedly shriek “antisemitism” as he is dragged into the dock at The Hague for his war crimes trial.
Baud
@Yarrow: I believe it. I think a lot of people think everyone receives the same information, and if no one offers a contrary viewpoint, then the information must be credible.
schrodingers_cat
@Ridnik Chrome: The Austerians were comparing United States to Ireland and Iceland, that comparison didn’t merit attention just as the comparison to Hungary doesn’t.
Baud
@schrodingers_cat: I see Iceland comparisons a lot. It’s irritating.
Betty Cracker
@StringOnAStick: Trump’s all screechy on Twitter about Obama today. I guess he got that memo too!
germy
@StringOnAStick: Maybe you can write a FrontPage account about OFA? It’s important, and what commenters here have been calling for (even before the election)
schrodingers_cat
@Baud: I have seen comparisons to Venezuela too, as in see what happens if you are socialist and we are heading that way.
Kay
@JPL:
Right, but they need a regulatory structure within which to work. Trump is not going to reveal anything without that. They need reporting requirements. They had that with the foundation. They don’t have it with the business.
Up to this point “political markets” worked to coerce disclosure. They failed with Trump. An unregulated market failed – the President isn’t held to rules on disclosure. They were disclosing and divesting voluntarily up until Trump. That’s how rules come about- someone takes advantage of “no rules”. The Trumps are those people. They’re the people that make rules necessary.
Baud
@schrodingers_cat: I generally distrust any comparisons to other countries.
schrodingers_cat
@Baud: I do too. Until this election most of them came from wingnuttia. I see our side descending into similar madness now. We are Russia, Hungary and Uzbekistan now.
ThresherK
@John: First, I do appreciate you’re acting in sincerity.
But I read enough of Douthat’s column today on the printed page. I’m not in an echo chamber; I don’t know what I’m missing by not clicking on it and poring over it. He doesn’t represent anyone but the Beltway Inbreds who are sanitizing the crazy for my consumption.
I get enough of the press normalizing Trump from other sources, and chin-stroking “we can’t tell what he’s going to do” because his loose-cannon statements or tweets might have said something good about, say, Planned Parenthood, months ago.
These are the same cast of folks who, since Labor Day, have seriously taken Trump as a bulwark against the worst promises made by the GOP for the last six years, or posited him as “the shakeup that Washington needs”.
Betty Cracker
@Botsplainer:
Wait, what?
Baud
@schrodingers_cat: I heard a lot of Iceland comparisons from the left before the election. Whatev. We barely have a grip on understanding our own country. How are we going to discuss other countries meaningfully?
schrodingers_cat
@Baud: Iceland is probably smaller than a borough of NYC. What was the comparison? We are not going to discuss anything meaningfully. Hyperbole, its the American way.
Baud
@schrodingers_cat: I think it’s mostly about how they dealt with the financial crisis. Also, maybe something about how they deal with Internet issues. It’s all a blur.
EZSmirkzz
I don’t know Betty, Trump thanked himself for the sun rising in the East this morning…
ABC News has yet to correct their grift.
Botsplainer
@Kay:
In business, he’s always been “that fuckin’ guy”. Why would his performance in politics be any different?
Iowa Old Lady
@Yarrow: First year college students also tend to believe that if someone quotes an opinion, that’s also the opinion of the quoter. To some degree, that’s developmental, but it can be taught or at encouraged. You can see how that would influence their reading of a news story.
Baud
@EZSmirkzz: Actually, I credit Trump. His election caused a bunch of Republicans to simply switch their outlook.
MomSense
I think we have to get creative. We can’t rely on just the WaPo to get the story out since Farenthold is “balanced” by a bunch of idiotic douchebags and most people get their “news” from cable, fake sites, and rightwing talk radio.
How about a corruption meter? Keep track of the moneys and decisions that benefit the trump family and his cabinet of deplorables. Who the fuck is going to secure all of the properties around the world with his stupid name on them? Are we going to put our blood and treasure on the line so he can add more gilt to his tacky penthouse?
ETA if he will not divest from his businesses the very least he should do is pay the US govt to secure them out of his personal funds. He should get a bill for services just like the rest of us do.
hovercraft
@Elizabelle:
Sadly even the tragedy of needing the extra chemicals to cope with deaths from overdoses, is contributing to more dangerous drug use. They are stealing the embalming fluid to “dip” marijuana into. I spoke to a kid a few weeks ago, who said he is enrolled in a course to become a mortician beginning in January. I congratulated him and asked what got him interested in such an unusual field. Most kids don’t grow up thinking hey I want to make dead people look good, he replied that he sees an opportunity to syphon off a gallon or tow of embalming fluid every month to sell on the black market, and eventually open up his own funeral home. A couple things, one, you are telling me that you plan to steal chemicals to be used by drugs dealers, the effects of which are said to cause users to become violent and act crazy, two, how sad that for this kid, he sees this as his best opportunity to get ahead.
This kid, is a 22 year old gay Hispanic man with a felony drug conviction for marijuana. He has had a difficult time finding work and a place to live, this is the type of person we should be trying to save, but every way he turns doors are being slammed in his face, so this is the plan he has come up with to support himself. I pointed out that as a mortician he will make a decent amount of money that will keep him well away from the need to engage in criminal activities. This kid is the quintessential non violent offender who like so many kids of color was incarcerated for marijuana, he west sent to jail where he was consorted with real criminals, and he has now become extremely cynical, white people and people with money commit crimes every day, with no consequence, why shouldn’t he? I point out hat as he can attest, he is part of neither of those groups as evidenced by his conviction, so he should stay away from crime. He says he wants to become part of the second group so that he and his can also become immune to the rules that the rest of society is subject to.
EZSmirkzz
@Baud: And ABC News too. I’m sure they are waiting on his phone call.
Botsplainer
@Betty Cracker:
Ask yourself this – who benefits? If the rest of the Muslim world is dealing with something that could become a growing existential threat (as adherents to that sort of aggressive fundamentalist Islam exist in fairly sizable numbers in every Muslim country), then are they paying a lot of attention to Israel? And if Syria is greatly weakened by its fight, it can’t really act as any kind of neighboring counterweight on settlements, nor can the people of Iraq be distracted to lend an assist. Of course, there also is an issue with Turkey,distracted by Kurdish separatism, ISIS on the border.
Also, ask yourself how much you’ve heard from Israel on the depreciations of ISIS.
There is a nonzero possibility of an Israeli assist, given the country’s policies and the good tradecraft of her clandestine and spy services.
schrodingers_cat
@Botsplainer: The extremist factions (especially the religious extremists) in different countries, feed on each other. Your speculation does not seem out of the realm of possibility to me.
Chris
@Botsplainer:
Well if you phrase it that way, sure. Part of the clusterfuck that is the Middle East is that you routinely have the weirdest bedfellows ending up together as a result of circumstance and wanting to screw over some third party they both hate more. It’s perfectly conceivable to me that Israel might’ve helped out Daesh at some point for whatever reasons (I think I’ve read that they once supported Hamas against the PLO/Fatah before the current setup of supporting Fatah against Hamas).
But it’s quite a leap from that to “it’s an Israeli created distraction.”
Elizabelle
@hovercraft: Whoa.
Glad you have a line of communication to the young guy.
Larkspur
@Botsplainer: That any state would be opportunistic is a given. That Netanyahu is craven and opportunistic, I can’t disagree. But postulating that “…ISIS could in fact have been an Israeli-created distraction….” sounds to me like “9-11 was an inside job” stuff.
Brachiator
@Yutsano:
Do Amazon Prime members still get 6 months of WaPo for free?
hovercraft
@gbear:
Ding, ding, ding. Dean Baquet is a gutless, piece of shit, he sets the climate for the entire organization.
Betty Cracker
Speaking of corruption…
Look past the impropriety of a PEOTUS meddling in the current president’s official business and the impropriety of a foreign head of state staking his country’s future on an unhinged, as-yet-unsworn-in demagogue for a moment and ponder why Trump’s unelected, unqualified and nongovernment-employee children are cc’d on the message. As someone on Twitter noted, that’s very worrying.
Is Trump about to open a new hotel in Jerusalem? Just think of the rent he could collect if he moves the US embassy there as promised.
Botsplainer
@Larkspur:
I should have said “assist” as opposed to “created”.
StringOnAStick
@germy: Thanks, I will write something up later today but first I have to take a friend to the doctor in a few minutes, so it will likely be this afternoon before it gets taken care of. It’s a broken wrist emergency and as hard as it was to get an appointment, well, I think we’re going to be there awhile.
As far as the Hungary comparison goes, Krugman ran a series written by someone who was there as the change in power happened over the last 2 years (I think it was). The first thing they did once they had a majority was start packing the courts and then passing legislation to ensure they will never be voted out of office again and that the judiciary couldn’t touch them either. The words of warning may not be as easy to brush off as we’d like.
Betty Cracker
@Botsplainer: What @Larkspur said.
schrodingers_cat
@Larkspur: I don’t think Israel is the dog that wags the ISIS/ISIL tail, but I could totally see them providing the group with support, material and otherwise.
A Ghost to Most
If you are not watching the Kerry speech, you are missing something. He is reaming out both sides.
Botsplainer
@Betty Cracker:
He’s mired in his own corruption scandal.
Birds of a feather, etc.
Another Scott
@A Ghost to Most: Thanks for the pointer. C-Span linky
Cheers,
Scott.
EBT
@hovercraft: I am too tired to tell if you are trolling. Undoubtedly someone tries thing, but much like Jenkem, it’s because they heard you can get high from it. If he actually told you this, it was to fuck with you.
hovercraft
@John:
I see the shitgibbon as more of a Berlesconi, he controlled the media and built up a minority coalition that saw his wealth and lifestyle as things to aspire to. He was unable to deliver anything because he wanted the power and prestige of being Prime Minister, but he lacked the skill to be one, he was corrupt and incompetent. In spite of that he did keep getting elected, because of their parliamentary system. Here the need to actually win the EC makes it more difficult, and I anticipate that much like 2004 came as a shock to s many here and around the world, it will have a galvanizing effect on the people who were complacent and stayed home or cast protest votes. My hope is that in spite of or better yet because of all of the voter suppression efforts, the turnout in 2018 will be huge. If the shitgibbon were to deliver on his promises, it would deliver pain to his voters, so even if they blame that on Obama, it is still pain, which is dispiriting, “we voted for Trump to make our country and our lives better, but everything still sucks, in fact it’s getting worse”, that is not a galvanizing environment for the midterms and re-elect.
hovercraft
@germy:
Pay back time.
schrodingers_cat
@Larkspur: That distinction goes to Dubya. His Iraqi misadventure did create a domino effect, just not the one he and the neocons were hoping.
SgrAstar
@John: Ack! As a teacher of college-age students, I can assure you that the generation raised with computers has no clue how to differentiate the lies from the truth. Boomers (I am one…heh) actually do know about identifying credible sources and recognizing shoddy arguments. The problem is not computer illiteracy but the bubble-building….which affects us all, alas. I always begin my science policy class with discussion and readings that address the central issue: how do we assess the credibility of online (or any) information?
germy
@A Ghost to Most:
I guess they don’t like what he plans to say before he says it? Or did they get an advance copy?
Yarrow
@Betty Cracker: I don’t think it’s worrying. He’s been clear all along that his administration will be a kleptocracy. “Worrying” to me suggests people fear he might go in an unfortunate direction. I don’t see any “might” about it at all. He’s doing it. The question is how to deal with it.
It’s clear Trump is going to install his children in his administration in any way he can. They’ll also be running his businesses with no line between President Trump, U.S. policy and his business interests. It’s kleptocracy. We can wring our hands or we can be clear-eyed about what it is and fight it beginning now.
Bobby D
@comrade scott’s agenda of rage: I feel you, I’ve got ~5yrs left in fed service before I hang it up and head for the non-profit sector. In DoD, we’re already outsourcing quite a bit of work in my field (environmental) which has turned me from a regional SME and engineering problem solver to a contract oversight person. So in the meantime I do what I can to get value for the taxpayer, eliminate wasteful spending, and count the days until I can finally walk out of here (5 years, 997 days of them at work). I used to take great pride in the fact that I saved the govt way, way more than my salary each year by making good decisions and having a deep understanding of the regulatory climate at my bases.
I had long expected a Clinton victory and had prepared (career-wise) accordingly. I was setup and groomed to take my boss’s job in about 2.5-3yrs when he retires, was putting in quite a bit of time outside work for credentials, training, and similar. Now that the Trumpanzees are coming in, I’ve since decided that I’ve had enough, no more desire to advance up the chain, and will hang around doing the basics, but not going above and beyond, not training or preparing for higher leadership roles, and becoming more and more disengaged as that 5yrs winds down. Somehow it’s depressing and bittersweet, because I used to feel good about my work and public service. Now I’m just burned out, bitter, and angry that I’m going to spend the last 5 yrs of my career watching the work I did in the first 25yrs get flushed down the toilet.
But there’s always a bright side. At least I live in California. And I have my health, mostly. And I’m financially ok. And this asshole of a year will be over soon. FU 2016, FU right in the skull.
hovercraft
@EBT:
Sadly no. This kid is seriously fucked up. My hope is that given it takes 2 years to qualify, and then another year as an apprentice to become fully qualified, there is still time to reach him. He’s still young enough to be reached, so long as he doesn’t do anything stupid like try to steal from the school, but they have strict controls on all of their chemicals.
Botsplainer
@Betty Cracker:
Like I said, I should have used “assist”.
And if that ever actually gets proven?
hovercraft
@zhena gogolia:
So sadly true, and to think that Jennifer Fuckin Rubin has became one of their better opinion writers, is mind boggling. The Times has K-thug, but the Post has Robinson, Rampell and more.
Brachiator
@Yarrow:
Nobody knows what Trump wants or what he will do after he is inaugurated, or what is important to him. Perhaps not even Trump himself.
This seems to be true. And though it seems likely that he might respond if cut off from adulation, it’s not easy to predict what his response might be.
Chris
@schrodingers_cat:
This!
Yarrow
@hovercraft: Midterms usually mean the party out of power does a bit better than the party in power. So we have that going for us.
hovercraft
@Yarrow:
“Is our children learning?”
NO.
hovercraft
@StringOnAStick:
Pleas share, good news is always welcome
Chris
@Yarrow:
The logical endpoint of an ideology that asserts that What’s Good For Rich People Must Automatically Be Good For All Of Us.
burnspbesq
@Ridnik Chrome:
I’m not. I was saying months ago that Orban is Trump’s role model, even though Trump probably has nary a clue who Orban is. I’d love to be wrong about this. I don’t think I am.
hovercraft
@Betty Cracker:
You gotta luv Bibi sticking it to Obama by praising the shigibbon in public on his favorite platform, that will really show him. WTF? Is this high school, dud we already know that the two of you are going to become BFF’s, no need to rub our faces in it. Obama I’m sure will lose so much sleep tossing and turning wishing he had kissed up to Bibi more, it would have completed him.
EBT
@hovercraft: I have had defoliated weed (fuck you government) I guess if I was not smart enough to peroxide it but savvy enough to realize the taste was a no shit this is wrong problem, I would say it’s something like embalming fluid and charge more. But really jeeze, there was a place just open HTML mailing bottles of liquid painkiller in to the country mixed with liquid kratom extract for half a decade and they finally got called on it a few months ago. You can buy all sorts of mystery CB2 hyper attenuated synthetic cannabanoids at gas stations and head shops, or food grade N2O practically anywhere. (I know a guy who bought a gross of gross packs of whippit chargers, sold a third of them at slightly less than the local places and paid for the whole order.). You can get fucked up easily, vaguely legally without having to drink formaldehyde or smell fermented shit.
burnspbesq
Kerry is on in the background where I’m having breakfast, and he is kicking mass quantities of ass re last week’s U.N. happenings.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@ThresherK: Well, what kind policy is it to make an oil exec Sec of State? Big Oil is exaclty the Neo-Con movement. That more fits Trump is out for wub from the rich than Trump is out to push some GoP agenda.
Larkspur
@schrodingers_cat: Yep. This is why I resent his almost total invisibility over the last eight years. He should have been at every Rethug convention, he should be interviewed relentlessly after every bombing in Iraq, Yemen, Pakistan, after every incidence of Syrian refugees dying while trying to escape. He and his whole cast of deplorables should be touring the country like a carnival act. I personally would volunteer as a bodyguard to ensure that no physical harm came to them. But they should be front and center. And they aren’t. He’s enjoying his wealth and painting his stupid pictures. One not-bad thing is that he hasn’t even ventured into an attempt at an “elder statesman” role.
John
@SgrAstar:
That’s awesome that you are teaching evidence-based decision making. More of that is needed.
However, you’re claiming that “Boomers (I am one…heh) actually do know about identifying credible sources and recognizing shoddy arguments.” You recognize that this is a shoddy argument itself? You’re generalizing your experience and the experience of those you know to what, 50 million people? I could equally say that, based on my experience with my blue-collar, barely educated family of Trump voters that boomers have absolutely no idea how to different fact and fiction.
Whatever the truth is, I think we can all agree that formal training on making decisions or forming opinions based on evidence is needed. I’m a little extreme in this regard because I trained as a scientist, but it is a skill that anyone can pick up, I’m sure.
ericblair
@Botsplainer:
Turkey will not be leaving NATO. Nobody can kick a country out, and Turkey will not leave voluntarily because if they leave then they’re out and Greece is still in.
I wonder what our alt-right pals are thinking about the Great Orange Hope eating up whatever the Zionists want to give him. Might try reminding them of this.
Larkspur
@Botsplainer: “Assist” makes more sense, although I imagine it more as a series of deliberate failures to mitigate, which is essentially assisting. God, I hate Netanyahu. Amos Oz should be the head of the Israeli government, but that would only work in an alternate reality. But it’s a nice fantasy to escape to.
wenchacha
Secy. State John Kerry is making a speech right now. It’s way too long, with no charts or lampoonery, so nobody will be listening. It’s a good speech, though. He would almost have you believing that sekrit Moozlin Obama really has Israel’s best interests at heart. Sad!
hovercraft
@EBT: My initial reaction was like yours, what the hell?
But a few minutes with google told me it’s really a thing. These links are pretty dated, so it’s not some new thing, I just haven’t been hanging around where these things are a thing.
From the Justice Department
Ever try weed laced with embalming fluid? | Marijuana Forums
Aug 27, 2009 – 10 posts – 9 authors
Effects from exposure to embalming fluid include: bronchitis, body tissue … smoking blunts where the wrap was dipped in embalming fluid
hovercraft
@germy:
I’m guessing he probably told them the gist of what he was going to say. Plus given that the Israeli’s spy on us more and better than anyone else I the world, he saw the speech in advance.
Larkspur
@John: I am halfway out the door, so I shouldn’t comment and run, but I agree with you, although you cannot underestimate the value of your education as a scientist in terms of your decision-making skills. I am a mid-Boomer, and although I remember our schools having advantages that many schools lack today – like music departments which would actually loan instruments to children at no charge, and fully stocked art departments – we also got piss-poor schooling on history, all of it centered on American exceptionalism, minimizing the key foundational aspects of Native American genocide and slavery. I got no education that enabled or encouraged me to differentiate among types of historical accounts and plain old propaganda. The most important thing I got from my Boomer education was learning to read, and the requirement to write essays rather than simply doing multiple choice and true/false testing.
Yarrow
@Brachiator:
The same could be said of anyone running for office. We can only go on what they say, what they do and look at their track record of behavior.
It’s clear from watching Trump that he values his family, wealth and power. Throughout his life and career, much of which has been in the public eye, he has shown little tendency to follow norms, rules, customs or even laws. He punches down on people who have less ability to defend themselves. All of these behaviors and more tell us what he values, what is important to him.
We can’t predict everything he’ll do, but it’s fairly easy to predict some of it. Installing his kids in his administration along with having them run his businesses was plenty easy to predict. And look, he’s doing it. Ivanka will act as First Lady and the three eldest kids will run his businesses.
liberal
@Botsplainer: I think it’s much more likely simply an Israeli preference for destroying more moderate and secular opponents, since the extremists are far less of a long-term threat.
Kay
I keep going back to this thing that I read after the financial crash. The idea was the most consistent mistake people make is assuming complex systems will operate as they have before. It’s this HUGE human bias. It’s not that people don’t learn enough from history. It’s that they assume events will unfold the same way twice and they almost NEVER do. Every new horror is just that- a new horror.
All of these Trump supporters and media are assuming that all the institutions and norms we really rely upon will just continue to operate as they have before. That to me seems like a crazy assumption. We created those things. They didn’t spring from the soil or come down from heaven. They take tending. They’re NOT resilient apart from human beings. They’re exactly as fragile as the individuals entrusted with their care. If the individuals within an institution are weak and corrupt the entity will be too.
hovercraft
@EBT:
Um, I have no idea what you just said, but if I’m going to smoke it, just give me good old fashioned unadulterated joint.
hovercraft
@burnspbesq:
But I thought that Hitlery was the worst Secretary of State in history, did that change while I wasn’t looking?
liberal
@schrodingers_cat: huh?
IIRC there were really large numbers of Iraqi refugees in Syria, which I think helped destabilize it. For the neocons, it’s all good.
EBT
The first link suggests that burning the cannabis slower lets you get more in you which is of course true, joints are the lossiest way to smoke because you have an active cherry. The second block quote is using the embalming fluid as a medium for PCP. Also your block quote is wrong, a dose of PCP is 15-20 milligrams not that less than one. And that 15-20 mg would be like a K hole no running around like a gorilla(racist source). (bonus points pcp is water and alcohol soluble anyway)
The reputable drug sites are erowid, TCC subforum of Something Awful (pay walled), grasscity (for cannabis stuff), and if you want to trust those crazy desomorphone freaks bluelight.ru
@hovercraft: Enter the 21st century and vape it’s quite nice and only smells for about 15 minutes.
Brachiator
@SgrAstar:
I’m a near Boomer (I think) and I don’t remember most of my teachers or contemporaries as being good at separating truth from bullshit. It was a rare teacher, in high school or college, who could provide any kind of guidance in clear thinking and analysis.
I don’t know what goes on in education these days, and am not sure why you say suggest that being raised with computers is part of the problem. Could be. I just don’t know. But despite having broader access to information, I am sometimes surprised to see younger office workers (in their 20s and 30s) spouting a lot of the nonsense and old wives tales that I heard from dopes when I was their age.
One difference, perhaps. I know more younger people who are stupid and proud of their stupidity. They are able to go through the world without having read novels or essays or knowing much of anything about history, and apparently still got good grades and were able to graduate from high school and college. True story. Yesterday I heard one guy say that they only reason he knew that we fought the Germans in World War I was because he remembered a comic book about a German flying ace. And this was during a discussion about whether it was wise to have the new Wonder Woman movie take place during WW I.
Kay
Just as an aside, notice Trump has now completely avoided press conferences for months.
They broadcast his every word on Twitter and there is zero pushback or even dissenting views.
It’s propaganda. The President says it and there’s no questions allowed or even presented. Half the time he’s blatantly lying and yet it’s still presented uncritically. Notice how skewed this is- Obama gave an interview and Trump responds with a Tweet. These two things are treated as equivalent but they’re not- Trump is blasting out propaganda while Obama is answering questions. Big difference.
If you listen to Right wing radio they’re thrilled with this- they think it’s great the President has a forum to send out his message but no pushback. They say this will work a lot better, in getting the GOP message out. He doesn’t “need” media, is how they frame it. It’s true, too. Why sit for interviews or give a press conference if your daily propaganda blast is dutifully spread nationwide?
EBT
@hovercraft: Basically I laid out a bunch of other really awful stupid things you could take that would actually get a person high (besides the N2O, as long as you remember to breath and take a ton of B complex it’s perfectly safe) instead of embalming fluid that wouldn’t require stealing from work or any degree of savvy or connectedness beyond has money (and maybe an internet connection).
I am sure Cole fucking loves me right now, but if that kid is actually trying that then I have a moral obligation to do what I can to move him to least harm.
Yarrow
@Kay: Absolutely right on, Kay. A president using Twitter as the sole means of communication with the people is a brand new thing. Everyone has to adjust to it. The media hasn’t figured out what to do with it. People on Tiwtter treat his tweets like every other tweet – like them, dislike them, make fun of them, turn them into a meme, etc. But critically analyzing them is fairly far down the list.
I think I read that the Trump administration may change the whole White House press daily briefing thing. We’ll see how the White House Press Corps responds to that. I don’t see that they’re strongly pushing back against it right now, which is not a good sign for their willingness to stand up to him.
What they should have done all along is refuse to go inside the “press pen.” And those “victory rallies” he did after the election – they never should have covered them. Or maybe send one pool reporter – with very good security – and stop there. Treat them like the joke they were. If there’s one thing we know it’s that Trump wants attention. Deny him that unless it’s warranted.
Another Scott
@EBT: Reminds me of recently having to show my license to buy some canned “air” to blow out the dust from an old PC….
“Kids these days!!”
:-/
Cheers,
Scott.
EBT
@Another Scott: Which is funny because: https://www.amazon.com/Whip-Superchargered-Whipped-Cream-Chargers/dp/B00E8QDJPU/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1482947300&sr=8-5&keywords=charger+whipped+cream No ID needed.
Brachiator
@Yarrow: RE: Nobody knows what Trump wants or what he will do after he is inaugurated, or what is important to him. Perhaps not even Trump himself.
Actually, no. Trump has no track record of public service, and his public statements are contradictory.
Over the weekend, I caught a rebroadcast of NBC’s Meet the Press. The topic was “Who is Trump?” and the assembled pundits were pathetic at trying to guess how Trump would govern, despite a healthy selection of interview clips.
I don’t think this is quite accurate, apart from his valuing his family. He lies about his wealth, often has to scramble to bail out of financial jams cause by his ego and overreach, and is famous for tangling with people who indeed can fight back. He made a fool of himself trying to tussle with Rosie O’Donnell who had a tv show and was a comedian who was skilled at dealing with hecklers. Obama slapped him around and may have set him off on his quest to win the presidency.
I don’t know many people who predicted that Trump would demote his own wife in favor of installing Ivanka as First Lady (and has this become official?). More substantively, his cabinet picks still has the media Establishment scratching their heads.
Steeplejack (phone)
@John:
Which is exactly what you did to start the conversation.
Yarrow
@Brachiator: A track record is a track record, whether in public service or not. We evaluate the whole person. All of their behavior is up for analysis. Yes, he lies about his wealth, but my statement was that he values wealth. Whether he has it or not he values it. And he wants to project that he has it.
As for installing Ivanka as First Lady, it was discussed throughout the campaign as Ivanka took on the role in the campaign that the spouse usually took. No, it’s not “official” but Melania isn’t moving and there’s been a lot of discussion about Ivanka having an office in the east wing. First she was, then it was “temporary.” Haven’t kept up with it over the holiday. It’s been pretty clear she’s got the role and she’ll at least have some office for a bit. Does that make it “official?”
As for tangling with Rosie O’Donnell or President Obama, sure he occasionally gets into that kind of thing. What gets less press is when he punches down on people like the union guy from Carrier or stiffs countless small business suppliers. He’s ruined some of them. The union guy got some attention but do people remember it? He has a history of punching down and he’s tweeted about average American citizens in a negative way. That’s appalling, but it’s what he does. He’s more likely to punch down than up and when he’s president there isn’t a lot of “punching up” he can do.
Applejinx
@tpherald:
I think this election was a booby-prize election. The state our politics has got to, is so dire, that whoever won in 2016 would be left holding the bag as all things failed. It could easily have been Hillary presiding over a complete meltdown and saddled with total responsibility for the results, with the Republicans playing the rescuers (and perhaps more long-term consequences).
That is not our reality. Republicans already lost to Trump in their primary, and are fully in control of the trainwreck as it goes off a big ol’ cliff. Let us hang that around their necks like a burning tire filled with gasoline: and clean our side of the street, and then deny we were ever dirty.
Important to not skip the second-to-last-step, which is why there’s a lot of circular firing squad action going on. If we were so great we’d have won all three branches of Government: blaming everything on prion disease of the electorate is disingenuous at best, dangerous at worst.
PIGL
@Yarrow: I think that to admit what Donald Trump really is is to confess that the United States is no longer a functioning democracy. Understandably a lot of people don’t want to make that confession and so they cast about in hopes of finding redeeming qualities in Donald Trump,
schrodingers_cat
@liberal: Be that as it may, their official reason was to usher democracy to the middle east starting with Iraq. Even the most ardent neocon cannot argue that has been the case.
Yarrow
@PIGL: Agreed. It’s scary to realize that we are not what we thought we were. Perhaps that’s why minorities have a less sanguine view of the country. Have enough experiences that show you’re not equal and you don’t have the same rights and you’re less starry-eyed about it.
It’s probably a good tendency to want to see good in other people. But it’s not going to serve us well in fighting Trump and the Republicans. We need to be clear-eyed and stand firm. Seeing him for what he is right now will help us going forward.
Brachiator
@Yarrow:
Everything old is new again. Mastering Twitter is similar to FDR using the relatively new medium of radio to talk directly to the people via his fireside chats.
You can’t do much in the way of critically analyzing 140 characters. This also gives him extra wiggle room when he sends his surrogates out to “explain” what he meant, while leaving his supporters to read whatever he wants into his nonsense rants.
He also is able to continue to exploit his supporters disdain for the “biased liberal media.”
Kay
@Yarrow:
I just think it’s silly to say we can have a President like this and “institutions” will somehow go on as before. He lies all the time on Twitter. What’s to say he won’t also lie at a State of the Union or in international relations? He lied about his foundation yesterday. That’s WHILE it’s under investigation by a state AG. What do the people who work for him do when THEY’RE asked about the lies? Lie to cover his ass or contradict the boss. He can’t wall off the entire federal government from questions. This Donald Trump pathological liar thing is a REAL problem. It’s not an adorable eccentricity. We’re talking about the credibility of a COUNTRY.
Applejinx
@Yarrow:
That’s exactly what got us here, in fact. I blame pretty much all of Western Civilization for going whole hog free market morality play on our asses.
Everybody right up to Hillary Clinton is prepared to hold human existence up to a bar where one fights it out with other social/economic/cultural actors, and money is the metric by which one succeeds or fails. Justice becomes meaningless unless quantified with dollars. This goes way beyond party politics: it doesn’t matter whether media is left or right wing, the only thing that interests our system anymore is ‘does it earn so much money that it brings 10X for its investors?’. If not, it sucks and should die, according to our moral system.
Damn right, the media is in trouble: that’s been happening as long as newspapers have been going out of business. It’s difficult to make a financial case for actually good ‘third estate’ because that costs more than sensationalist garbage.
The danger here is, if you put further pressure on the media, it could just cough and die outright. You’re assuming that it can be more profitable in money terms to ‘do investigative journalism’ and expose the fraud of very rich people who, like Peter Thiel, can smother you with lawyers and use capital and the system to crush you. I don’t believe there is a profit motive in Real Journalism And Justice, right now.
The motive is ‘survival of our way of life’. Collapse will continue to be more profitable than that. You can’t try to set up our survival as ‘something that market forces will bring to pass’, that’s not how this works. You can’t squeeze the media to make it have more integrity, like it had when it wasn’t so desperate for money.
Drawing further parallels is left as an exercise for the reader, hint hint ‘insecurity’ hint ;)
Brachiator
@Yarrow:
It’s more to it than that.
He values appearing to be top dog. Not quite the same thing as valuing wealth.
Not the same thing as anyone predicting that Ivanka might supplant Melania.
Actually, people do remember it, just as they remember his insult of the family of the Muslim serviceman. It’s just that his supporters and opponents view it differently.
Again, not accurate. Trump’s supporters were thrilled to see him punch out all the other Republican contenders during the primary. He bashed John McCain, and shocked the Establishment. He humiliated Romney before dumping him as a potential Secretary of State. He slapped Ryan around for not warmly embracing his candidacy. Trump will fight anyone, high or low, who stands in his way. I don’t see this as anything to be admired, but it is not consistently “punching down.”
Yutsano
@Brachiator: Really?
Huh.
I might investigate that when I get home.
hovercraft
@Yarrow:
The fact that Ivanka and her family are moving to DC makes it official. You don’t uproot your whole family, especially your young kids, for a temporary position.
hovercraft
Labor Secretary: Trump Team Requests For Agency Staffer Names ‘Illegal’
Labor Secretary Tom Perez said that it was unlawful for the Trump transition team to request the names of individual staffers employed at government agencies like the Energy Department, CBS News reported Tuesday.
“Those questions have no place in a transition,” Perez said, according to CBS. “That is illegal.”
“Will dedicated career people be targeted because they were doing the right work?” he added.
In mid-December, the Department of Energy rejected Trump staffers’ request of a list of all staffers who worked on climate policy in the Obama administration. A DOE spokesman touted the “important work” done by the department and said the inquiry “left many in our workforce unsettled.”
The transition team later disavowed the questionnaire requesting employees’ names, saying it was “not authorized or part of our standard protocol.”
Yet last week it asked the Department of Homeland Security for the names of staffers who work on programs to counter violent extremism.
A similar request made to the State Department for information on “gender-related staffing, programming and funding” was filled because it did not ask officials to identify employees by name.
Perez told CBS he wasn’t aware of “blanket questions” posed to the Labor Department about its staff or programs.
Asked by CBS to comment, a transition team spokesperson said, “the transition has a memorandum of understanding in place with the administration, and we continue to uphold both of our ends in this agreement.”
Brachiator
@Applejinx:
Is that you, Bernie Sanders?
Another Scott
@Yutsano: It looks to me like it’s mainly for people with their Fire tablets. But I could be wrong – it’s hard to tell with so much fine print…
Cheers,
Scott.
Louc
@Betty Cracker: Here’s the difference today, versus eight years ago. The Washpost hired Marty Baron as their new editor. He is the guy (played by Liev Scheiber in the movie) who gave the go ahead to the Boston Globe’s Spotlight team to investigate the Catholic Church — in Boston, which has one of the highest densities of Catholics in urban America. Before he went to the Globe, Baron kicked butt at the Miami Herald.
Sadly, the editorial page are still run by Fred Hiatt of neo-liberal hawkish fame.
Betty Cracker
@hovercraft: Speaking of Perez, Josh Marshall will interview him in early January via a podcast. He’ll also have Ellison on a separate podcast. Should be interesting!
Applejinx
@Brachiator: Might as well be! :D
If you doubt me, make a case for how liberty and justice is MORE profitable to capital than pillaging, looting, and getting helicopter-lifted off the Titanic before it goes down. It is MORE profitable to ruin our world than it is to save it.
Our plans must take this into account, because our priorities are different. We are in Team Save without checking the price tag against Team Ruin.
hovercraft
@Brachiator:
Remember when the media were bitching about Obama, using social media, having a YouTube channel, circumventing them and talking directly to his supporters, being interviewed by bloggers and late night hosts all the time, destroying the dignity of the Presidency, and signaling the end of accountability. Somehow they seem to have managed to hold him accountable, so much so that it spawned the “thanks Obama” meme.
In fact I remember back in 2009 when the media was whining because the polls kept showing that the majority still blamed Bush for the poor economy well after the first 100 days which was when the media felt he should be held responsible for it.
hovercraft
@Betty Cracker:
I look forward catching that, I’m on the Perez bandwagon.
Yarrow
@Brachiator:
I’m not sure what in your mind would qualify as “predicting” but it was discussed as a possibility throughout the campaign. Read it in regular news, in terms of Ivanka playing the role the First Lady usually did. Read more speculation on blogs and other less “official” places about how Ivanka looked to be moving into the First Lady role and it might continue. Once Melania stole Michelle Obama’s speech at the convention, as well as Trump putting his hands all over Ivanka at the convention, I saw plenty of discussion of Ivanka “supplanting” Melania, but I’m not sure that’s what you mean.
If you mean that someone had to say, “This is exactly what will happen with these exact steps” that probably didn’t happen. A sage with a crystal ball didn’t “predict” it. And people generally thought Hillary would win, so a lot of “predictions” were off. But yes, Melania was shelved after the convention and Ivanka was out there all the time playing the role the spouse and future First Lady usually plays. I saw plenty of discussion of how it looked like she was going to move into the First Lady role, whether officially or unofficially. Is discussion of something and consideration of how it might work going forward the same thing as “predicting” for you? There were people who said, “I think this is how it’s going to go.” Does that count? Does it only count if it comes from someone “official” like Chuck Todd?
J R in WV
@hovercraft:
And the WaPo still has happy warrior C. Krauthammer, however you spel his name… [sic] ;-) What a smiling personality!
Gretchen Diefenderfer
@Brachiator: Yes, Amazon Prime members do get 6 months of WaPo free, so yay! Go for it – I did. Also sent little money to the Guardian. We desperately need good investigative journalism.
Ang
@Jerzy Russian:
I’ve seen enough signs in public restrooms reminding people to flush (and in said restrooms, usually the ones with multiple signs, have faced other’s slowly-melting poop) that I think yes, adults do need to be reminded of toilet training.
Denali
The shitgibbon has apparently decided that Twitter is his personal link to his adoring fan base. They can’t tell when he lies and they don’t read enough to find out he is lying. In addition, they don’t care. If the rest of the world would simply ignore his tweets, he might become needy enough to give a press conference. Since he has no sense of what policy actually is, he has no way to converse about it. It will be interesting to see how he deals with his supposed allies in Congress.
@Kay, thank you for your insights.