Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

You can’t attract Republican voters. You can only out organize them.

If marriage is the equivalent of selling yourself into slavery, women with self respect should reject the offer.

Come on, man.

Tick tock motherfuckers!

One of our two political parties is a cult whose leader admires Vladimir Putin.

We know you aren’t a Democrat but since you seem confused let me help you.

Impressively dumb. Congratulations.

Everything is totally normal and fine!!!

A lot of Dems talk about what the media tells them to talk about. Not helpful.

Everyone is in a bubble, but some bubbles model reality far better than others!

When they say they’re pro-life, they don’t mean yours.

It’s pointless to bring up problems that can only be solved with a time machine.

There are no moderate republicans – only extremists and cowards.

But frankly mr. cole, I’ll be happier when you get back to telling us to go fuck ourselves.

The fundamental promise of conservatism all over the world is a return to an idealized past that never existed.

Second rate reporter says what?

Peak wingnut was a lie.

The republican ‘Pastor’ of the House is an odious authoritarian little creep.

Republican speaker of the house Mike Johnson is the bland and smiling face of evil.

Let’s show the world that autocracy can be defeated.

You’re just a puppy masquerading as an old coot.

I’d hate to be the candidate who lost to this guy.

Sitting here in limbo waiting for the dice to roll

Republicans don’t lie to be believed, they lie to be repeated.

You are here: Home / Open Threads / Open Thread: #NotAllRacists

Open Thread: #NotAllRacists

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Gotta say, NYTimes, Jamelle Bouie sure sounds like the smarter, better analyst here:


Reader Interactions

273Comments

  1. 1.

    Roger Moore

    @jbouie if you see racism in everything you’re either hysterical, ignorant or opportunistic.

    If you don’t see racism in Trump’s campaign, and in the Republican party in general, you’re blind.

  3. 3.

    Corner Stone

    Jeremy Peters is also the pundit who wrote off Russia’s interference in the election by snidely saying they didn’t “hack into HRC’s calendar and erase campaign events in WI and MI”.

  4. 4.

    Corner Stone

    The NY Times should be relegated to below Natl Enquirer status at this point as a valid news source. Let’s replace with Teen Vogue. Much more on point.

  6. 6.

    Droppy

    It’s really, really important to stop calling racists racists because they might end up being racist because they are being accused of being racist even though they are already racist which they are because you called them racist. Or something.

  7. 7.

    Mnemosyne

    @Roger Moore:

    Also note that the tweet is basically saying that if you see racism in anything, you’re hysterical, ignorant or opportunistic.

    I know I’m not the only person tearing my hair out that white pundits are unable to see that ignoring open racism is itself racist, but Jesus fuck these guys are deliberately stupid assholes.

  8. 8.

    Corner Stone

    And since it’s an OT, why would Obama wait so long in this transition to actually start making moves to oppose the incoming administration?
    And please, don’t tell me it was because he had to be the adult in the room, thanks.

  10. 10.

    Runt

    To shamelessly quote myself: “Some Trump voters were impressed by his racism & sexism, the others felt it was something they could ignore. Not quite sure which is worse.”

  11. 11.

    Corner Stone

    @Droppy: Do you mean to say that if someone does something racist and you say, “Damn, that was kinda racist” that the person will go forward to commit more racism because you pointed out the concept of racism in their previous racist acts?

  12. 12.

    quakerinabasement

    Glad to see Pierce chipping in a nickel’s worth, as he puts it so well: “It’s not about race, because nothing, ever, is about race.”

  13. 13.

    Major Major Major Major

    In the spirit of the open thread, I’m restating a question from last night. I’m working on a new urban fantasy story, and I want one of the main characters (an actuary/white collar wizard) to have a cat that isn’t very magical at all. I’m thinking an orange tabby. What are some other rather non-magical cat breeds?

  14. 14.

    Calouste

    I’m sorry but anyone who went to those rallies and didn’t think racism, sexism and xenophobia were the accelerants was deaf, dumb, and blind

    And probably not even good at pinball.

  15. 15.

    Corner Stone

    Great. Now we’re going to “penalize” Russia for interfering in our national elections.
    Get good and ready for your three week spanking, Vlad!

  18. 18.

    schrodingers_cat

    Why does anyone even bother to read Vichy Times at this point, I wonder. I have not clicked on the site even once since the election. No Pure Bull Shit Newshour either. It has been extremely liberating.
    I have subscribed to WashPost instead and check out BBC for international news.

  19. 19.

    Corner Stone

    Why won’t anyone in the media say that 5K jobs is nice but actually nothing in the scheme of the overall economy.

  21. 21.

    Calouste

    @Mike in NC: How many days are there left in Clinton’s lifetime? The NYT will probably dedicate more space to the email servers than the actual obituary the day she dies.

  24. 24.

    West of the Rockies (been a while)

    @Droppy:

    You’re not far off, actually. We certainly heard plenty of whitesplaining about how “people are sick and tired of getting in trouble for saying what they used to say without any impunity.” Those darn SJW’s and their PC ways! Time to open carry an AR 15 while spewing exhaust at a bicyclist with my Rolling Coal F150!

  25. 25.

    Another Scott

    @Major Major Major Major: Orange Tabby probably has that category locked up.

    Others?

    My dad had a white cat (named “Snowball” – whodathunkit?) that he “adopted” after she had her kittens on top of his roof. She became Tunch-size after that. She remained quite independent and funny in a way, but not magical. Except in the way she could move up a ladder when she was being chased by a dog!

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  26. 26.

    Hal

    Of course racism was a factor. Not suggesting otherwise. But a lot of people want to overlook the Dem Party’s fault here too

    Wasn’t the gist of his point that racism wasn’t a major factor? And where are these people that are saying it’s only racism and that everything was otherwise perfect?

    Many straight white men are so absolutist in their opinions on race that I am at a point where I can’t even bother reading or listening any more. Instances of racism, sexism and homophobia must always have the straight white male stamp of approval after all.

  29. 29.

    m.j.

    Jeremy W. Peters: We can’t call liars, “liars.” We can’t call racists, “racists.” That would be un-journalistic.

  31. 31.

    Hal

    @Major Major Major Major: Calico? They seem pretty average. Our old family cat was one. She was great and we loved her but that cat lived 15 long years lounging and eating and not doing much else. You couldn’t even get her to play with a string.

  32. 32.

    PST

    To say that racism was decisive in the election is not to say that every Trump voter or even a majority of Trump voters were racists. It just means that racism motivated enough voters at the margin to swing the election. A quick look at some of those who endorsed Trump (David Duke, Daily Stormer, etc.) and his extreme efforts to avoid repudiating or criticizing such supporters certainly makes it look like Trump cultivated the racist vote.

  33. 33.

    m.j.

    Of course racism was a factor. Not suggesting otherwise. But a lot of people want to overlook the Dem Party’s fault here too

    Fuck you and your both-siderism.

  34. 34.

    Yarrow

    Judson McCulloch @JudsonMcCulloch
    @jbouie if you see racism in everything you’re either hysterical, ignorant or opportunistic.

    Judson McCulloch is yet another middle-aged white guy who retweets Breitbart, Trump, and people who think Obama is anti-Semitic. No surprise he wants to slam down anyone who points out racism at all. So predictable.

  36. 36.

    Another Scott

    @kindness: Yup.

    Kinda weird, isn’t it, that a guy who can write thousands of words in a story in an internationally-important paper seems to feel like it’s a good use of his time to have stilted, strawman arguments 140 characters at a time.

    It’s like Twitter isn’t a good communications medium or something. Like maybe it’s only good for starting arguments and building a “buzz” about something happening elsewhere?!?!

    :-/

    Seriously, every time I think that maybe I should join Twitter to be able to push back on the noise in the MSM that is making us stupider, I glance at Cole’s feed and see all the times he’s blocked, etc., and realize that giving Twitter my input isn’t going to help anything. Plus, I have too little time for additional distractions like that.

    That makes me feel a little smarter, or at least a little less incrementally dumb!

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  40. 40.

    West of the Rockies (been a while)

    @kindness:

    May have been my F150 prejudice speaking: I was almost crushed by an F150 driven by a drunk. They are solid beasts, to be sure. My Honda del Sol never had a chance. Gave its life for me. Seatbelts and airbags are awesome.

  43. 43.

    schrodingers_cat

    @Mnemosyne: I have the Uniqlo report. I like the way the tights feel next to my skin. I wouldn’t wear them in below freezing weather but good in upper 30s or low 40s. I wore them yesterday, when the high was in mid 40s. I bought the extra warm variety. There is warm and an ultra warm too.

  44. 44.

    Felonius Monk

    Jeremy W. Peters appears to be an ignorant asshole, so I guess he feels right at home at the NYTimes.

  47. 47.

    NR

    @Mnemosyne:

    Also note that the tweet is basically saying that if you see racism in anything, you’re hysterical, ignorant or opportunistic.

    Actually, no, it basically said something completely different than what you just claimed it said.

    Saying everyone who voted for Trump is a racist is every bit as stupid and wrong as saying no one was.

  48. 48.

    Turgidson

    @Corner Stone:

    He’s probably the biggest Hillary-hating twit on a staff overflowing with them.* To him, Russian interference, James fucking Comey, and voter suppression were trivial nonfactors compared to the Clinton campaign’s mistakes, which he doesn’t bother to describe. Fucking useless.

    * Other than Maureen Dowd, of course.

  50. 50.

    Stan

    @Roger Moore:

    if you see racism in everything you’re either hysterical, ignorant or opportunistic.

    Twenty years ago, in my ignorance I probably would have agreed with that statement. Nowadays I think, it is correct, more often than not, to see racism in many things. And mypersonal doctrine has become that any time you can’t figure out why the heck something happened in American history, start with racism as the cause. You will be right pretty often.

  52. 52.

    mai naem mobile

    I’ve seen Jeremy Peters on MSNBC. I rarely watch Mornin Ho but I believe he’s one of their revolving pundits/reporters. He always comes across as the awkward poor smarty pants nerd in KMART clothes trying to fit in with the old money Brooks Brothers dressed prep school Kool Kids. And he’s willing to sell his soul for it. Like I’ve said DC is just a perpetual John Hughes movie and Ann Marie Cox is Molly Ringwald.

  54. 54.

    hovercraft

    Of course racism was a factor. Not suggesting otherwise. But a lot of people want to overlook the Dem Party’s fault here too

    I love how he whines that he’s not saying what he just said, but that he’s merely downplaying it as a factor in his “win”.

    I said this a few days ago, the shitgibbon went before white America and said, this is your last chance white America, first you had 8 years of a ni**er running our great country, giving all the power and “our stuff” to those people, and now this bitch wants to get in there and cement the job. She is embracing everything he has done to our country, and promising to keep all his policies in place, and then some. She is bringing in 600 thousand Syrians, millions of Mexicans, this is your last shot to STOP this hostile takeover. These black people want to take away your right to kill them with impunity, they want to be able to challenge the police, only by voting for me can you maintain your white privilege.
    The genius of FOX is that they have become the default ‘new’ network in America, they managed to get into so many of the public places we go to, so the rubes are mainlining their dribble everywhere they go, and the shitgibbon just regurgitated all their lies for them, and proved to them that is was all true. They succeeded in conning the rest of the media into treating them as just another news outlet, instead of what they are, pure propaganda.
    Jeremy Peters can DIAF, the democrats made mistakes, but their biggest one was underestimating the degree to which many white voters resented the last eight years. They reacted to 2012, the way we reacted to 2004, they assumed that everyone hate Obama the way they did, and so didn’t come out in drives, and were shocked when Obama was re-elected. When they found their hero, and were given fresh hope by the medias reaction to the Comey letter, they were not taking any chances, they were going to vote for him. Racism and misogyny were two huge factors, any one who denies this should be ignored.

  55. 55.

    Another Scott

    @efgoldman: The thing that would hurt Vlad the most is for the price of oil to fall. If Obama were in office for the next couple of years, he could do a lot to put the screws to Vlad without doing anything overt WRT The Cyber.

    Given the short time, who knows what if anything new he could do. Maybe there are clues in the DAA he signed recently. Supposedly we’ll know more tomorrow.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  57. 57.

    hovercraft

    @Droppy:

    t’s really, really important to stop calling racists racists because they might end up being racist because they are being accused of being racist even though they are already racist which they are because you called them racist. Or something.

    And you really hurt their feelings.

  58. 58.

    Yarrow

    @PST: Speaking of David Duke, for those not following Evan McMullin’s Twitter feed (reminder, he’s the guy who ran for president as an independent splinter from the GOP and for awhile people thought he might win Utah). McMullin has been strong against Russia since the election and just in the last day has been calling out racism in the GOP. Sample:

    Evan McMullin ‏@Evan_McMullin Dec 27
    When 92% of black voters don’t support the Republican nominee, but the KKK does, there’s a problem. Let’s deal with it and move forward.

    That caught the attention of David Duke, who then tweeted this:

    David Duke ‏@DrDavidDuke 21h21 hours ago
    #AntiWhite traitors like McMullin “won’t just go away on their own.”

    I think things could get pretty ugly.

  60. 60.

    delk

    Gav is home!
    He went crazy wagging his tail when they brought him into the waiting room.
    Liver enzymes are still a concern and he will need to go back next week for a check-up/blood draw. His normally pink spotted tummy is rather bruised. Six different medications to sort out.

    Thanks everybody for all the thoughts and well wishes!

  61. 61.

    Another Scott

    @Stan: Agreed.

    Anyone who thinks that racism hasn’t shaped the USA, and continues to shape it to the present day, needs to take the time to read TNC’s opus. It looks to these eyes like something that Peters would do well to read…

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  64. 64.

    Gelfling 545

    @Major Major Major Major: I suspect sphinxes aren’t magical at all because they don’t need to be. Their appearance does all the work. Orange tabbies, however, are extremely magical. They hold humans in the palm of their paw.

  68. 68.

    mai naem mobile

    @Corner Stone: Duh, the Twitter Machine said he was too busy playing golf overseas in Hawaii. Also, playing basketball with his basketball player thug pals because that’s what blah men do dontcha know?

  69. 69.

    Mnemosyne

    On our way out to see a matinee of “Rogue One,” because I just can’t avoid spoilers anymore.

  70. 70.

    Roger Moore

    @efgoldman:

    What should we do? Send the bombers? An ICBM or two? Sail the fleet into St. Petersburg harbor, the Black Sea or Vladivostok?

    Release all our hacked data on Vlad’s personal wealth.

  76. 76.

    Yarrow

    @delk: Excellent news. Hopefully things continue to go in the right direction. Must be such a relief he’s home.

    @Major Major Major Major: He certainly is. McMullin cheers me. I wish the Dems would take a page out of his book. Call out the GOP. Call out Russia. Call out Trump. Call out what is happening.

  78. 78.

    zhena gogolia

    I think the NYT is on the verge of imploding. The content gets more and more meager every day, even in the Arts section. I now just do the puzzle, glance at the Arts, and throw the rest out. I can’t even stand to read Krugman, since he has no hope to offer.

  79. 79.

    Corner Stone

    @efgoldman: Filing in the round file under: NothingBurger, way too fucking late.
    He’s known for fucking months. Telling Vlad to “cut it out” on the red phone was a little weaksauce BS.

  81. 81.

    Baud

    @Yarrow:

    I wish the Dems would take a page out of his book. Call out the GOP. Call out Russia. Call out Trump. Call out what is happening.

    You mean the way Hillary did?

  82. 82.

    Felonius Monk

    @Baud:

    The NYT continues to be garbage.

    It used to be good for wrapping the garbage and lining the bottom of bird cages, but alas, it’s not even good enough for that now.

  84. 84.

    Steeplejack

    Open-thread question for the Juice hive mind, automotive division:

    The doughty Kia (2009 Rondo, a small wagon/​crossover) needs a new set of tires, preferably this week. The current tires are pretty old, so I knew I was due, but today I discovered a nail in the side of one of them. Okay, it’s time!

    So, any ardent, even fanatical—​but not racist!— ​opinions on an all-season tire for mild NoVA weather and light use (probably under 8,000 miles a year)? The Kia dealer has a set of OEM tires in stock (Nexen) at what looks like an okay price, but years of watching tire ads in the sportsball games has me torn between (1) tires is tires and (2) OMG these are the greatest tires in history I will never buy anything else!

    What to buy and where to get it?

  85. 85.

    Jim Parene

    In my former town, Copiague, NY., I was discussing the ineffectiveness of Superstorm Sandy “recovery” and FEMA/Flood Insurance fraud with my neighbor. Without any hesitation he told me “If you were a n&* ge#, everything would be taken care of”.
    Racisism is inprinted every day by the “news” media.

  86. 86.

    slag

    This panel talk with Ta-Nehisi Coates, Rebecca Traister, Chris Hayes, and Sherrilyn Ifill about the election brought on all the feels. The discussion of the “velvet rope” between explicit and implicit racism during this campaign and its relationship to established norms was terribly on point.

    Though I have developed a problem when Ta-Nehisi talks in that I can never stop myself from nodding along, punctuating almost every point he makes with “that’s right”. I’m pretty sure 2016 has thoroughly emboldened my inner crazy person.

  87. 87.

    Roger Moore

    @Steeplejack:
    I’m firmly in the “tires is tires” camp. As long as you stick with one of the major manufacturers, the general class of tire is more important than the brand. I would recommend low rolling resistance all-season tires. Tread life rating is probably not hugely important for you if you’re only driving 8,000 miles per year.

  89. 89.

    Yarrow

    @EBT:

    Debbie Reynolds has been hospitalized from a stroke.

    Sounds like it’s a possible stroke. I hope she’s okay. Poor thing. Must be so stressful to lose Carrie.

  90. 90.

    Kristin D

    I don’t think getting 80,000 voters in WI, MI and PA to vote for Democrats is worth just letting up on talking about (and hopefully working to end) racism, because talking about it hurts their fee fees. But, you know, that’s just me.

  95. 95.

    Another Scott

    @Steeplejack: I’m a fan of the Tire Rack and of Michelin tires. We also drive less than 10k miles a year. But one has to be careful with them around here in NoVA. The extra-long-wearing versions have extremely long lasting tread, but has very poor traction on ice (J slid off the road once a couple of years ago). I’d probably look into something in the 50,000 miles range and plan on replacing them before then (6-7 years is a long time for tires around here, I think).

    I don’t know anything about the Chinese brands. I know that Bridgestone bought Firestone years ago, and BFG is owned by Michelin now. That’s about all I know.

    See what the TireRack recommends and maybe shop around for better prices. TR ships to local installers and I’ve had good luck with that.

    My $0.02. Good luck.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  96. 96.

    kindness

    @West of the Rockies (been a while): – Now I feel bad. Just so you know my commute car is a 2001 Toyota Solara. I just pushed that bad boy over 500,000 miles last month. All that from driving 85 miles twice each day for the last 10 years (bought it used with 64 K on it already). So please forgive me for throwing around my 2 cents.

  99. 99.

    Kathleen

    @Calouste: They should have a separate obit for the servers, since they have loomed so large in the national conversation. Perhaps future historians will devote scholarly treatises to “The Servers And Their Secrets”.
    Maybe Mark Burnett will create a reality show for “The Servers” where he sends them to a server farm (I learned they really have “server farms”) to compete with government servers. Just a few random thoughts after taking cough syrup.

  100. 100.

    NR

    @Yarrow: The classic “anti-racist is code for anti-white” credo of the modern alt-right. There’s no better way to spot a neo-Klansman/Stormfronter than if they whip that one out.

  101. 101.

    Ella in New Mexico

    @schrodingers_cat:

    His one true savior was BS in the primaries, long after he could win realistically speaking, let’s not forget.

    Correct me if I’m wrong, but that statement comes across as dangerously close to trying to delegitimize Charles Pierce, who is quite a brilliant and very left of center guy, because he didn’t support the candidate you wanted in the Primary. Even though he supported HRC after she won. So now he’s suspect in all things because he supported Bernie Sanders?

    Isn’t that what the Reich Wing anti-media folks do, too? Tell their listeners that NO ONE can be trusted who is not one of them? I know R’s who state that they don’t read any mainstream, non-partisan newspapers, or listen to NPR or watch PBS anymore because their information is all biased and untrue. Only Fox, Breitbart, the Daily Caller, Alex Jones, and Rush Limbaugh can be trusted.

    You’re fighting the wrong enemy.

  102. 102.

    Yarrow

    @Steeplejack: Check Costco for tires if you haven’t already. They have good deals but they might not have what your car needs. You can ask at the tire desk. You do need a membership.

  104. 104.

    schrodingers_cat

    @Ella in New Mexico: I am not a big fan of CP, never was one before this election season, either. I don’t trust his judgment. No one is stopping you from reading him. I just a lowly commenter on a minor political blog, how can I delegitimize CP even if I wanted to do so?

  107. 107.

    hovercraft

    @schrodingers_cat:
    He’s a frequent guest on msnbc, or at least he was back before the event that caused me to stop watching, I think he is being groomed as one of the next generation of smart ‘journalists’. As such Morning Joe could always turn to him for a neutral voice, and get him to say that it was never the republicans fault no matter what they did, because the democrats made them do it, because you know both sides.

  109. 109.

    Darkrose

    @Yarrow: Evan McMullin is a white Republican conservative Mormon, and he seems to understand the role race played in electing T***p better than many white so-called progressives.

  111. 111.

    hovercraft

    @efgoldman:

    It wouldn’t surprise me if there was some kind of little, teeny piece of computer code we could send back down the line, but He’d never talk about that.

    Obama already told us that part of the response will only ever be known by both governments, the Russians won’t acknowledge because it would show a vulnerability, and even if they did, we would deny it.

  114. 114.

    Ian

    @BBA:
    Your statement is only true in the sense that all people feel some level of tribal loyalty. It is conditioned into us at birth. What separates the deplorables and the sane is proper education and upbringing. Being around and in contact with “others” (by any definition) and outside thinking, as well as being taught to think critically, is crucial to developing an open mind. Once there, it is hard to say all of (insert any group) fit into any simple categorization like you propose.

  115. 115.

    hovercraft

    @EBT:
    The poor woman, losing a child is a terrible thing for anyone, but to lose one unexpectedly is even harder. Sending good thought her way, I hope she pulls through.

  116. 116.

    Thornton Hall

    When Katherine Cramer wrote about people in Eau Claire hating patronizing elites, the people she quoted kept talking about “Madison.”

    Democrats suffer terribly by being associated with the MSM and universities.

  117. 117.

    Brachiator

    A small bit of positive news

    U.S. ends year with fewest executions since 1991

    Nationwide, 20 inmates were executed in 2016, according to a report from the Death Penalty Information Center. That’s the fewest since 1991, when 14 inmates were executed. In every other year since 1992, the U.S. executed at least 28 people.

    From this day forward, I no longer shall tinker with the machinery of death. For more than 20 years, I have endeavored – indeed, I have struggled – along with a majority of this Court, to develop procedural and substantive rules that would lend more than the mere appearance of fairness to the death penalty endeavor. Rather than continue to coddle the Court’s delusion that the desired level of fairness has been achieved and the need for regulation eviscerated, I feel morally and intellectually obligated simply to concede that the death penalty experiment has failed.

    — Harry Blackmun, Dissent from the denial of certiori, Callins v. James, 510 U.S. 1141 (1994)

  119. 119.

    BD of MN

    @Steeplejack: I’ve put Pirelli all season tires on an older Saturn sedan and a newerish Grand Caravan and liked them for traction and noise better than anything else I’ve bought (mostly Firestone cause they were cheaper). I’ve had good service and prices from Discount Tire. It seems most places have very similar tire prices but installation charges vary quite a bit…

  121. 121.

    Haydnseek

    @kindness: This has been another episode of “Missing the Point Theatre.” Next up: Is it a clip or a magazine? Let’s have a fucking duel to settle it once and for all!

  122. 122.

    Yarrow

    @Darkrose: He does. And he’s not afraid to call it out. If he can see it and call it out, it does make one wonder why Democrats aren’t being as outspoken about it. It’s a refreshing change to see someone stand up like that.

    He’s also great at getting under Trump’s skin, which is kind of fun to watch. Trump finally came up with a nickname for him – McMuffin. So McMullin then went to a McDonald’s with his running mate Mindy Finn and they posed with Egg McMuffins. Trump then went back to calling him “that guy” or “this guy.”

  127. 127.

    Hob

    @Major Major Major Major: I have two black short-hair cats, and neither one of them acts the least bit witchy or mystical. The bigger one is sort of a jolly dog-like cornball, and his brother is more of a cranky critic but is very straightforward about it, there’s never any mystery as to why he is meowing at you or avoiding you. The only time they come across like stereotypical black cats at all is if the lights are low and one of them closes his eyes and yawns, you get the unsettling “shadow with fangs” effect that was captured so well in Attack the Block.

  129. 129.

    Ella in New Mexico

    @PST:

    To say that racism was decisive in the election is not to say that every Trump voter or even a majority of Trump voters were racists. It just means that racism motivated enough voters at the margin to swing the election.

    No. This kind of thinking needs to be blown out of the water again and again and again because it’s offering cover to cowards, and it’s untrue.

    EVERYONE who voted for Trump and yet claims they are NOT “racists” is fucking lying. They approved of his racist, misogynist and xenophobic crap at some level, or they simply could not have voted for the man in good conscience. They ignored his disgusting shit-show because deep down inside, they’re really, really angry and want to hurt those people. He made them feel powerful, excited. He spoke to their miserable, tiny, festering abscesses for souls. Even the ones who say “Oh, I don’t agree with that stuff” or “Oh, he’s just kidding. He doesn’t mean it” know damn good and well what he’s doing to this country, and they secretly like it.

    You don’t think this is true? Ask yourself if you could have, in good conscience, voted for a Democrat who said the same things he said, did the same kinds of things he did and attracted the trash he did to his rallies, but who you knew would win the election and help give us a majority in Congress? Would it be worth it to you to look the other way and chuck everything you believe just to win a fucking Presidential election?

    Well I couldn’t have. Because it would have been endorsing a racist, misogynistic xenophobe who fans the flames of evil. No cover for these people.

  131. 131.

    Ella in New Mexico

    @delk: Awww, bless his heart! I’m so glad he’s on the road to recovery. Reading your posts, it really did sound like he got into some kind of blood thinning or liver damaging compounds that interfered with his ability to coagulate. I’m so glad it was temporary.

  132. 132.

    Larkspur

    @Stan: @BBA: @Another Scott: Yes to everything. I’m an American white person and I am a racist and I struggle with it and try not to base my behavior on it and I try to learn more things, but for me to say, oh no, I’m not racist, or that I somehow inhabit a post racial existence is like saying I couldn’t possibly have, like, strontium 90 in my blood or bones because, darn it, I’m nice and I mean well. I grew up in a racist society. I’m always gonna have work to do.

    PS: Yay, Gav!
    PPS: tuxedo Kitler cat

  133. 133.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    I’m sorry but anyone who went to those rallies and didn’t think racism, sexism and xenophobia were the accelerants was deaf, dumb, and blind

    let’s not forget anti-intellectualism too I mean one of the jackasses pledges is to suppress the parts of science that doesn’t meet his approval.

  134. 134.

    Calouste

    @MomSense: Really, despite all the old and somewhat less old celebrities that died this year, it is a heck of a lot better than what 2017 is going to be.

  135. 135.

    EZSmirkzz

    Happy Hollandaise Anne, just a drive by, “What Digby says: for ya.

    I’m sure that there will be a huge pushback from various quarters, including the Democrats. But with polarization I can easily see elderly Republicans getting on board with this even though it will destroy them personally.

    Life in post spatial America.

  137. 137.

    EBT

    I scared myself earlier by comparing deadbeat donnie to Ferdinand Marcos. Then realized now they have an actual crime against humanity.

  141. 141.

    Yarrow

    @EZSmirkzz: That’s all about balance billing for Medicare, which is currently not allowed. Incoming Trump guy wants it to be allowed. AMA is all for it. This is so true:

    And, by the way, it won’t just destroy the old people. It’s going to wipe out entire families. If you haven’t dealt with an elderly person lately you simply cannot imagine how much health care they need and how insanely expensive it is. The idea that we can be “wise consumers” when we’re 85 is simply ridiculous. Unless, of course, they plan to implement those death panels after all. They’re going to need them.

    Yep. Healthcare for older people is very expensive and the need can happen suddenly and there’s no chance to plan. And then it can be ongoing. Of course that can happen to anyone, but it’s much more likely for older people. And how in the world can some 85 year old comparison shop for the best healthcare? Ridiculous.

  142. 142.

    Mike in DC

    The great thing about being conservative is that you never have to define valid examples of anti-black or anti-minority racism, except for the most extreme and obvious cases (guy wearing Klan robes or Nazi uniform actually shouting racial slurs). So you can just claim that “the left” calls everyone racist to stifle dissent. And never have to actually concede that some stuff that sounds kinda racist might actually be kinda racist.

  146. 146.

    LAC

    @efgoldman: aside from repeating this over and over again, there is no viable ideas coming from that corner of the room. I suppose obama is supposed to start with a nougie and end with slapping Putin’s face with his dick or get drunk and verbally abuse him until he cries. Or start a short easy world war. So easy… why doesn’t he do that? ???

  148. 148.

    D58826

    Obama has created several new national monuments in Nevada and Utah. Needless to say the GOP is having a meltdown. They are going to do their level best to make sure that the history books report on President 43 – Bush and 45 – der Fuhrer but not a word about 44- whoever he was.

  150. 150.

    West of the Rockies (been a while)

    @kindness:

    No apologies needed! Are you an adjunct professor? I was for some years and put on about 180 miles a day on my car. Once had four classes in four different towns on four different campuses. Your 85 miles a day on your workhorse Solara made me wonder.

  153. 153.

    p.a.

    Gotta wonder if this week’s UN abstention wasn’t in part domestic politics. Get tRumpner to come out strongly for Israel Likud to alienate his ‘alt-right’ supporters, whack Putin, watch tRump suport Vlad, and alienate his whole Senate cohort.
    Per TPM already some anti-Semitic attacks out West. I’m not Jewish; what’s a yiddish/hebrew word for what Kushner is? Kapo doesn’t seem to quite fit- they were the almost-powerless brutalizing the truly powerless.

  155. 155.

    Corner Stone

    @p.a.:

    watch tRump suport Vlad, and alienate his whole Senate cohort.

    Did you mean to specify the R Senate cohort? Because they are just fine with supporting Vlad and Russia. Obviously.

  156. 156.

    Chip Daniels

    @NR:

    But, as a commenter pointed out above, every single one of Trump’s voters saw his and everyone else’s racism as not-disqualifying.

    Every.
    Fucking
    One.

    Was willing to pull the lever for the KKK’s choice of candidate.

  157. 157.

    EZSmirkzz

    @Yarrow: Quite a bit of the Republican agenda depends on “rational” long term planning by individuals, such as privatizing Social Security, which people with long memories will recall didn’t pan out so well during the credit/housing bubble popping in 2008. Even Wall Street couldn’t get rational. It becomes a question of not if they are able to learn, but are they even sentient? Shifting health care cost containment to the patients, what could go wrong?

  158. 158.

    Chip Daniels

    @Ella in New Mexico:
    Agreed.
    I think we all know white people who are normally good natured towards the black people they meet in their daily lives, and who never use the “N” word, who don’t tell racist jokes…

    But when push comes to shove and they have to choose, just don’t consider racism something they can’t look past. Its not important, its not critical, its something they can jettison as easily as not.

  159. 159.

    Uncle Ebeneezer

    @jbouie if you see racism in everything you’re either hysterical, ignorant or opportunistic.

    This is exactly backwards. Racism permeates EVERYTHING in our society. It is in the very bones of our Democratic structure and economy. It shapes people’s attitudes/beliefs/feelings whether they are aware of it or not. It effects every aspect of our world. At this point, it’s on the person claiming something is NOT racist, to illustrate why. Racism is the default. In this particular case, good luck. Show your work. Start from: Rich, white man demands first Black president “show him his papers” and wingnut voters cheer him on.

  160. 160.

    FlipYrWhig

    @schrodingers_cat: Because in an interview she used the word “superpredators,” of course. You’ve heard of the one-drop rule? Hillary Clinton is subject to the one-word rule.

  163. 163.

    FlipYrWhig

    @EZSmirkzz: The Republican agenda relies on hastening the suffering of the undeserving. And if you think you’re among the deserving and you still suffer, you’re either wrong about yourself or it’s because of colored people. This is how they think, virtually uniformly.

  164. 164.

    Yarrow

    @efgoldman: Copays are not balance billing. I think you just have to pay those. Balance billing is the difference between what your insurance pays the the “actual” charge – which could be horrible inflated. $500 for an aspirin? Sure, why not. Insurance covers $0.05, so you pay $499.95. Balance billing is mostly restricted for Medicare, apparently. I don’t know about Medicare Advantage.

  165. 165.

    Roger Moore

    @EZSmirkzz:

    Quite a bit of the Republican agenda depends on “rational” long term planning by individuals

    I think that’s mostly just a shtick. They don’t genuinely believe in that stuff; it’s just a convenient story to justify their greed.

  167. 167.

    Yarrow

    @Roger Moore: Agreed. And it’s going to work great in the short term and terribly in the long term. Hey, Millennials – won’t it be fun to cram mom and dad and grandma into your one bedroom apartment because they had to sell the house to pay for all their medical bills?

  175. 175.

    EZSmirkzz

    @FlipYrWhig: Not to contentious, but the Republican agenda is liberating the dollars of anyone perceived to be weak, or in our case as Democrats, unorganized.

    I hate to become too cynical about conservatives, they are Epicureans without Epicurus, capitalist without Adam Smiths. When so many among us take politics personally, then a rejection of our politics is equated with a rejection of ourselves, so perhaps in the coming months it may be more useful to point whatever altruistic tendencies they may have laying dormant into something beneficial to both they and our nation as a whole. I haven’t rounded that corner yet, but I have the wheels turning on it. Somehow we baby killer Democrats have got to help them without letting them know we are, or preferably, that they are doing it themselves for their own individual enrichment.

  176. 176.

    Larkspur

    @p.a.: Maybe paskudnyak – (“ugly, revolting, horrible, evil person; nasty fellow”), but that doesn’t necessarily carry the specific implication of a Jew who supports and endorses an anti-semite.

    From the always reliable Wikipedia (looking up “self-hating Jew”, which I don’t consider Kushner to be):

    …The sociologist Irving Louis Horowitz reserves the term for Jews who pose a danger to the Jewish community, using “Jewish self-hater” to describe the court Jew “who validates the slander (against Jews) as he attempts to curry the favor of masters and rulers.”[12] The historian Bernard Wasserstein prefers the term “Jewish anti-Semitism,” which he says was often termed Jewish self-hatred…. Wasserstein goes on to say that self-hating Jews, “afflicted by some form of anti-Semitism were not so much haters of themselves as haters of ‘other’ Jews.”….

    None of that seems to fit Kushner, except the idea of a “court Jew”, but even that is kind of remote. It’s like Kushner, who’s supposedly Orthodox, considers himself so exceptional that his own Jewishness is automatically elevated, and that none of the anti-semitic rhetoric that flourishes around Trump could ever have anything to do with him.

    Help needed from someone who knows what the Yiddish antonym for “mensch” is.

    ETA: Or, per zhena gogolia, putz will certainly do.

  177. 177.

    Tenar Arha (same Tenar, more Nameless Ones)

    @schrodingers_cat: They’re produced in a tool factory with extra gonnections to get them their internships & nepotistic/gonnected jobs. /yes that was a gatsby reference ?

  178. 178.

    germy

    @Yarrow:

    won’t it be fun to cram mom and dad and grandma into your one bedroom apartment because they had to sell the house to pay for all their medical bills?

    The “thought leaders” usually grease the skids for societal change. I expect to see more than a few “think pieces” about how people are too isolated nowadays, and how in the good old days multiple generations lived together under one roof. Helping each other! Living alone is unnatural! etc.

  179. 179.

    Major Major Major Major

    @p.a.: you know, there’s probably a German or Yiddish word for assuming there’s a German or Yiddish word for something.

    Obama has always benefited from Voltaire’s Prayer–o lord, make my enemies ridiculous. All he had to do in this case is the same thing the US has been doing consistently for decades. I wouldn’t read too much strategery into it.

  180. 180.

    Brachiator

    @FlipYrWhig:

    You’ve heard of the one-drop rule? Hillary Clinton is subject to the one-word rule.

    It’s not just about words. She was defending Bill Clinton’s signing of a bill which saw black people thrown into prison in order to make Clinton look tough on crime. Craven political expediency.

  182. 182.

    EZSmirkzz

    @Roger Moore: Everything their leadership says and does is undoubtedly as you say, but their base is a little trickier proposition, which is why the echo chamber is so important to the conservative movement. Not only does their emperor have no clothes, he’s no emperor at all. Until we can all start working off the same set of facts then the Republican base will continue to be supportive of their leadership that says what they want to hear, and highly critical of any and all voices that tell them what they need to hear. It’s a tough nut to crack, but that’s why God invented Democrats, because he knew other people couldn’t do it. YMMV on that last statement.

  186. 186.

    EZSmirkzz

    @germy: So the hippies were right, we should all be living in communes, and at peace with one another – hey wait a minute! You mean better Red than Dead?!! Republican commies!

  187. 187.

    Another Scott

    @Major Major Major Major: Superpredator speech from 1996:

    The fourth challenge is to take back our streets from crime, gangs, and drugs. We have been making progress on this count as a nation because of what local law enforcement officials are doing, because of what citizens and neighborhood patrols are doing, we’re making some progress. Much of it is related to the initiative called Community Policing. We have finally gotten more police officers on the street. That is one of the goals the President had when he pushed the crime bill that was passed in 1994. He promised 100,000 police and we’re moving in that direction and we can already see that it makes a difference because if we have more police interacting with people, having them on the streets, we can prevent crimes. We can prevent petty crimes from turning into something worse.

    We also have to have an organized effort against gangs, just as in a previous generation we had an organized effort against the mob. We need to take these people on, they are often connected to big drug cartels. They are not just gangs of kids anymore. They are often the kind of kids called “super-predators”– no conscious, no empathy. We can talk about why they ended up that way, but first we have got to bring them to heel.

    The President has asked the FBI to launch a very concerted effort against gangs everywhere. In addition, he has appointed a new drug czar. He is one of the most distinguished active military Generals we have in our country. He has already proven he knows how to interdict drugs because of his command of South American activity on behalf of the United States. General McCaffrey will make a big difference. I believe it is now time for all of us to know what we can do individually to be part of this anti-crime, anti-gangs, anti-drug effort.

    It’s clear she was talking about gangs.

    But, “context” is a quaint 20th century concept that no longer applies in the Age of Twitter.

    :-/

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  190. 190.

    Original Lee

    @Steeplejack: Falken Ziex? I only overheard a couple of guys talking at Mr. Tire about what Consumer Reports recommends, so you may take this suggestion with a tiny truckload of salt.

  192. 192.

    FlipYrWhig

    @EZSmirkzz:

    the Republican agenda is liberating the dollars of anyone perceived to be weak, or in our case as Democrats, unorganized

    That’s the party’s agenda. The rank and file voters are a different story. They want to enjoy hurting people who they think need to be hurt, and there’s nothing beyond that.

  193. 193.

    Mike in DC

    @Roger Moore:

    Everything flows from the desire to avoid taxation–IGMFY, the othering of social welfare recipients, distrust of large government programs, cultivated paranoia that medicare is bankrupt and social security won’t be there, the government doesn’t create jobs lie, regulations are bad, etc.
    Once you get that, it’s just a matter of figuring out how a talking point advances the philosophy of tax avoidance.

  194. 194.

    Roger Moore

    @Brachiator:

    It’s not just about words. She was defending Bill Clinton’s signing of a bill which saw black people thrown into prison in order to make Clinton look tough on crime. Craven political expediency.

    This is bullshit several ways. The most important was that the 1994 Crime Bill was something that the black community was screaming out for. It’s easy to forget it today, but crime genuinely was terrible back then, especially in black communities. That’s why the Congressional Black Caucus supported the crime bill. Another big reason it’s bullshit is that the Crime Bill had a lot more than just tougher punishments. It had money for more policing, which was seen as critical to getting crime under control at the street level, and for community development programs intended to steer kids clear of crime, like the much derided midnight basketball.

    Finally, it was complete BS to act as if the crime bill was something Hillary was uniquely responsible for, rather than something that came out of the general political process. That process, for example, included votes in the House of Representatives, where one of the Ayes came from Bernie Sanders (Too Pure to Be a Democrat Until It’s Convenient-VT).

  196. 196.

    Corner Stone

    Trump has his too long jacket buttoned at the bottom and his too long tie outside his jacket, resting on top.
    I can not express how much I hate this piece of shit motherfucker and his whole team.

  197. 197.

    FlipYrWhig

    @Roger Moore: At any rate, the whole discussion here now about superpredators (a word I brought up, cue chagrin) stemmed from a rumored contention that Clinton was more racist than _Trump_, which is sixteen different kinds of stupid.

  198. 198.

    Brachiator

    @efgoldman:

    A politician acted politically. Oh my stars! Clutching the pearls so hard they turn back to sand.

    I guess all politicians are the same because they do poliitical things. If real people get hurt, it’s all part of the game, right?

    So, why didn’t you vote for Trump?

  202. 202.

    EZSmirkzz

    @FlipYrWhig: Well Molly Ivins used to say conservatives were meaner than rattle snakes skinned alive, but I’m not interested in converting snakes into liberals. If their politics are motivated by hate, and that is not the sole possession of conservatives, just more prevalent I think, then you can count me out. I don’t need to be a snake to shoot one with the twenty two. I don’t even need to become a snake to whack one with a friggin shovel.

    All I can really say is that I’m not interested in 2016 anymore, I’m interested in 2018.

  203. 203.

    Brachiator

    @Roger Moore: Did I say that Clinton was uniquely responsible? No. Did she defend her piece of shit husband? Yes.

    Black people are not a monolith, and they certainly were not crying out to be thrown under the jail so that Bill could look tough on crime.

    And I think that Hillary offered an apology. Was that bullshit, too?

  204. 204.

    Brachiator

    @FlipYrWhig:

    And it was because she had anti-racist street cred via Marian Wright Edelman that she could be asked to do that.

    That’s not how street cred works.

  205. 205.

    FlipYrWhig

    @Major Major Major Major: I think she got caught up in a frame of reference that was rather common at the time — see also “crack babies.” And children’s issues were her big thing. IMHO activism around “mass incarceration” too often puts people who were on opposite sides at the time in one bag — because their arguments are about systemic effects.

  210. 210.

    Brachiator

    @efgoldman:

    Fucking purity ponies are going to be the death of our party./

    Perhaps you should calm down. I have not insulted you. It’s not about purity ponies. It’s about black lives. And haven’t you heard, black lives matter.

  213. 213.

    Thornton Hall

    @zhena gogolia: I didn’t say get rid of them. If people hate “elites” and mean universities, it doesn’t do anyone any good to claim that “elites” means Democratic politicians.

    If you poke around in comment threads you find some strong opinions among the rurals about public universities. None of it is good. Public universities face a problem: they educate only a tiny fraction of state taxpayers. This causes the unsurprising result that those taxpayers cut their funding. Public universities solve thatproblem by admitting more international students. Then they see their funding cut again… and are at a loss to explain it.

  215. 215.

    Brachiator

    @FlipYrWhig:

    Uh, it kinda does, or Sandernistas wouldn’t have tried so hard to make MARCHED WITH KING happen.

    I don’t give a damn. Totally irrelevant.

  223. 223.

    FlipYrWhig

    @Brachiator: Working alongside a civil rights icon doesn’t earn _any_ consideration? Tough room. Or is you taking exception to my use of the phrase “street cred”? Fine, “activist cred” then.

  226. 226.

    FlipYrWhig

    @Thornton Hall: “Elites” means “those people who think they’re better than me.” Sometimes it means college professors, sometimes hipsters, sometimes it means yoga moms, etc. “Madison” doesn’t just mean the university, it’s a particular hotbed of hipsters and arty types _and_ college kids _and_ state government. But of course Republicans have been lashing out at decadent college kids since Reagan and Agnew when my parents were in college, and I’m 45.

  227. 227.

    hovercraft

    @Another Scott:

    But, “context” is a quaint 20th century concept that no longer applies in the Age of Twitter.

    :-/

    The media that keeps telling me that if you are explaining you’re losing. I thought the point to the media was to inform it’s consumers, by you know explaining shit to them and providing context. If they cannot do this basic thing that they are supposed to do, what is their function. Why not just place cameras in venues, hire some editors to cull all the most entertaining clips, and throw it online. I can watch politicians lie without the likes of Jeremy Peters, Chuck Todd or Mrs Greenspan regurgitate it and tell me that nuance is elitist.

  230. 230.

    Patricia Kayden

    @Roger Moore: Thank you. Let’s remember the context of that bill. Many Black people wanted that bill because of the high crime rate in inner cities. Can’t believe this is an issue now.

  231. 231.

    japa21

    I am about to enter my eight decade on this earth, and I don’t remember any year like this one in terms of celebrity deaths.

  233. 233.

    FlipYrWhig

    @Patricia Kayden: The Crime Bill was one of those classic Bill Clinton things where you take things that Republicans want, things that Democrats want, shake ’em up and see what happens. A “grand bargain,” if you will. So it had community policing and rehabilitation programs and sentencing guidelines and the death penalty and violence against women and a whole mess of other stuff in there. It leaves everyone a little bit dissatisfied, a/k/a “politics.”

  236. 236.

    Miss Bianca

    @Brachiator: Oh, fuck you, seriously. You know who else voted for the crime bill? Yeah, St. Bernie. You know who *else* was supporting it? Black community leaders. Let your CDS go, already.

    It’s easy, as PBO said, to go back and monday-morning- quarterback now. And It’s only ever the Clintons who have to suffer from anything the Democrats did in the 1990s. Funny, that.

    ETA: Or what Roger and Patricia said. I’m getting sick of white people acting all righteous over how horrendous the Crime Bill was for black and brown people. It was an honest effort, and if it was misguided, well, we haven’t done shit to make it better for them since, have we?

  237. 237.

    Brachiator

    @FlipYrWhig:

    Working alongside a civil rights icon doesn’t earn _any_ consideration? Tough room. Or is you taking exception to my use of the phrase “street cred”?

    Both.

    Over the holidays, I talked with a number of college age black folk who judge the Clintons and the Black Caucus harshly for the crime bill. You can say that they are not looking at the full historical context. But they know the impact that it had on their families and the families of friends.

    Some of them voted for Clinton. But they are not forgiving. Nor do they need to be.

  239. 239.

    Brachiator

    @Miss Bianca:

    Or what Roger and Patricia said. I’m getting sick of white people acting all righteous over how horrendous the Crime Bill was for black and brown people.

    I don’t give a shit about Sanders. He wasn’t the president.

    I don’t care about the Uncle Tom black politicians who backed the bill. I DO care about the black and brown people who suffered.

  242. 242.

    Jim Parene

    From that day on, I avoided the ignorant a-hole.
    He is a union NYC Operating Engineer who makes excellent $$. He despises unions.
    Fuck him.

  245. 245.

    Miss Bianca

    @Brachiator: You fucking dick. You want to go down to the south side of Chicago and talk to the church folks I used to teach with about what “Uncle Toms” they were? The black nurses I worked with at Planned Parenthood who told me about their nieces, nephews, kids getting shot at during drive-bys? Shit, they were the ones telling ME we needed the Crime Bill when I sounded off about it sounding just like you – a clueless white liberal.

    Sounds to me like you don’t care nearly as much about the “black and brown people who suffered” as you care about sticking it to “the Clintons” any way you can think of. You certainly don’t give any indication that you care that a lot of black and brown people suffered in the cities, who were BEGGING for something, ANYTHING, to be done so that their kids would stop getting murdered as a result of the drug wars.

    No, the Crime Bill wasn’t perfect. Yes, it, like almost all legislation – all human endeavor – suffered from the law of unintended consequences. Yes, a lot of it needs to be revised and walked back. Yes, we have a racist law enforcement system. Are you actively involved in making changes to that system? No? Then take your self-rghteous bullshit about Clinton culpability and cram it.

  246. 246.

    J R in WV

    @West of the Rockies (been a while):

    My wife rolled our F-350 on I-25 north of Las Vegas NM, and we both survived – and so did both dogs in the back seat. The truck was unfortunately totaled, but everyone else was OK, though a little stunned. Well, not than a little, but we all made it through the day.

    Sorry about your Honda… glad it saved your life. Collapsing frames, air bags, all such good design!

  247. 247.

    J R in WV

    @Steeplejack:

    Go to Tirerack.com and look at their tire tests and reviews. Free advice, good prices. We swap Blizzak winter tires and Pirelli summer tires each change of seasons – VW Tiguan, southern WV. We can go in the snow if we need to. Not like the snow they get in the eastern mountains, but still, we get some.

    ETA spelling

  249. 249.

    Brachiator

    @Miss Bianca:

    Shit, they were the ones telling ME we needed the Crime Bill when I sounded off about it sounding just like you – a clueless white liberal.

    Not sure who you think you are describing, but it’s not me.

    Participation in the struggle for liberation struggle is a family tradition going back generations. I try to do my part, but am in awe of the Giants who preceded me. And I look at the Clintons with cool appraisal. I give them credit for the great good they have done, and note where they fell short. And as I noted to another poster, there is a new generation of young black folk who judge the Clintons more harshly than many here. They don’t see Sanders as a savior either. And they are not going to beg white or black leaders for anything.

  250. 250.

    Christopher H

    @Steeplejack: Worth seriously considering low rolling resistance (‘eco’) tyres. I have had Michelin and Ecopia versions and the current generation have excellent handling…and are very hard wearing. (But you have to find the inflation sweet spot, which is higher than your car placard but well under the maximum load inflation for that tyre.)

  252. 252.

    Corner Stone

    @Brachiator:

    And as I noted to another poster, there is a new generation of young black folk who judge the Clintons more harshly than many here.

    If those are your mentioned “college age black folk” then that means they were either toddlers or unborn when WJC was president.
    You want to continue along this line of understanding?

  253. 253.

    Corner Stone

    @Brachiator:

    I give them credit for the great good they have done, and note where they fell short.

    Hence your calling WJC her “piece of shit husband”.
    Just stfu you fucking clownshoe.

  254. 254.

    burnspbesq

    @Brachiator:

    I don’t care about the Uncle Tom black politicians who backed the bill.

    How many of the 23 people you just called Uncles Tom can you actually name?

  255. 255.

    Corner Stone

    “Hey, I just asked some 5th graders about policing and welfare and school lunches and social policies from the times when their parents were in middle school. Seems like they had some opinions we should really give serious weight to.”

  256. 256.

    Corner Stone

    College age black folk. Reflecting on the Clinton Presidency. In a meditation room in CA. In 2016.
    Man. That is some good shit.

  257. 257.

    liberal

    @Corner Stone:

    The NY Times should be relegated to below Natl Enquirer status at this point as a valid news source.

    I don’t get all this stuff about the NYT. It’s douchebaggery was clear much earlier, in the run up to the Iraq invasion, and the Whitewater scandal.

  258. 258.

    liberal

    @Miss Bianca:

    Are you actively involved in making changes to that system? No? Then take your self-rghteous bullshit about Clinton culpability and cram it.

    I really, really don’t get the logic that anyone who isn’t fully involved in politics or public policy is disallowed from criticizing Democratic Party establishment figures like Bill Clinton, HRC, Obama, …

  259. 259.

    liberal

    @Brachiator:

    She was defending Bill Clinton’s signing of a bill which saw black people thrown into prison in order to make Clinton look tough on crime.

    Next thing, you’ll lie and claim you’re not taking money from Putin and that you didn’t vote for Donald Trump!!1!

  260. 260.

    Corner Stone

    @liberal: It’s regenerative. I keep trying to get the NYT buried but somehow…

    Maybe I should go to southern CA and ask some college age black folk where they get their news from…

  263. 263.

    Corner Stone

    @FlipYrWhig: Oh no. Here they come again! College kids who are too young to know who the Gilmore Girls or cast of Vampire Diaries are! Oh, Christ, no!
    But they all hold THE CLINTONS to task FOR EVERYFUCKINGTHING from the ’90s!!!
    Oh, please to be holding me naow.

  264. 264.

    FlipYrWhig

    @Corner Stone: In all seriousness a lot of younger people of color have gravitated to the Michelle Alexander line of thinking and think of Hillary Clinton as part of the problem. I think it’s bullshit to lay any blame on Hillary Clinton, personally. But if it’s true that younger African Americans didn’t turn out to vote, which I’ve seen a few times in analyses, I have to think that The New Jim Crow had something to do with that.

  266. 266.

    LAC

    Wow, this has devolved into a condescending mess. Apparently, we do not live or go to school in Southern California, black students are not capable readers of history and have no opinions worth a damn, and we were either all against the bill or we were all for the bill. Because we are a monolith.

    And by the way, Nixon was way before their time too, but his “war on drugs” still resonates, particularly in our communities. A lot of our young people understand history more than you think.

  267. 267.

    Xenos

    @efgoldman: exactly. Don’t fail to respond just because Trump will reverse it. Make a pointed and clear retaliation and make Trump reverse it and thereby reveal his treason. Trump’s only other option is to leave the sanctions in place and poke his biggest benefactor in the eye.

    In chess it is called zugzwang – forcing an opponent into a decision where there are no good choices.

  269. 269.

    Mnemosyne

    @Brachiator:

    And as I noted to another poster, there is a new generation of young black folk who judge the Clintons more harshly than many here.

    Well, I hope they enjoy President Trump. I can tell them from experience that both parties are not equally bad, and they will feel sick every morning from now until Trump leaves office wondering what they facilitated today by not voting for Clinton.

  271. 271.

    Fred

    In 1984 a man presented himself at my place of business claiming to be the Grand Wizard of the Maryland KKK. He asked me produce a Klan logo and I politely declined.
    During our discussion he claimed that the KKK is not a racist organization. Oh no, the KKK only wishes to promote the rights of all races to remain separate and autonomous and blah, blah……
    Incidentally he had his teenage daughter with him and they had a touchy-feely relationship that gave me the creeps, not unlike the Pu$$y Grabber in Chief’s relationship with his own genetically superior daughter.
    Anyway, Trumpsters are not racists at all. They just don’t like those people, ya see? You do see the distinction? You must see that distinction, right?

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