Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

No one could have predicted…

She burned that motherfucker down, and I am so here for it. Thank you, Caroline Kennedy.

This country desperately needs a functioning fourth estate.

Rupert, come get your orange boy, you petrified old dinosaur turd.

There is no compromise when it comes to body autonomy. You either have it or you do not.

Sitting here in limbo waiting for the dice to roll

Whatever happens next week, the fight doesn’t end.

This has so much WTF written all over it that it is hard to comprehend.

If you can’t control your emotions, someone else will.

This chaos was totally avoidable.

How any woman could possibly vote for this smug smarmy piece of misogynistic crap is beyond understanding.

The republican caucus is covering themselves with something, and it is not glory.

In after Baud. Damn.

Shallow, uninformed, and lacking identity

This isn’t Democrats spending madly. This is government catching up.

Jack be nimble, jack be quick, hurry up and indict this prick.

Only Democrats have agency, apparently.

I see no possible difficulties whatsoever with this fool-proof plan.

Republicans: “Abortion is murder but you can take a bus to get one.” Easy peasy.

If a good thing happens for a bad reason, it’s still a good thing.

I’d hate to be the candidate who lost to this guy.

Nothing says ‘pro-life’ like letting children go hungry.

Republicans are radicals, not conservatives.

This must be what justice looks like, not vengeful, just peaceful exuberance.

You are here: Home / Politics / Domestic Politics / Ill-Advised Cookie (Open Thread)

Reader Interactions

155Comments

  4. 4.

    burnspbesq

    2016 couldn’t leave well enough alone. Nope, on its way out it grabbed California’s First Dog, Sutter. Condolences to Governor and Mrs. Brown.

  5. 5.

    Gin & Tonic

    Not sure if this has been posted, but here’s a picture of the incoming POTUS doing a grip-and-grin with a convicted murderer who is holding a Russian flag.

    This is from some media tour King was doing in 2006. But in light of recent new, it’s delicious.

  13. 13.

    schrodingers_cat

    Even in a religion where the feminine Shakti is as powerful as the masculine Shiva, God is a combination of both the masculine and the feminine, Ardhnarishwara, IRL it does not somehow translate into equal status for women. One thing religious conservatives of all stripes share is the subjugation of women. The current Indian mores are somehow still stuck in the 19th century Victorian era, or so it seems to me.

  15. 15.

    Gin & Tonic

    @raven: But without a Russian flag, I think.

    Here’s the bizarre thing: do a Google image search for “Donald Trump Don King.” In every goddamn picture, and there are many different ones, King is holding a flag. US, Russia, Israel, it varies. But he’s always wearing the same stupid jacket and holding a flag.

  20. 20.

    Mnemosyne

    I posted this a couple of threads ago, but word just went out that Tyrus Wong, a Disney artist that I was acquainted with died today at age 106. Obviously, once somebody passes the century mark, the news is no longer surprising, but he was active and mentally with-it to the very end. Therefore, fuck 2016.

    (A documentary about him is supposed to air on PBS next year as part of the “American Masters” series — I’ll try to do a DVR alert when it does.)

  21. 21.

    Adam L Silverman

    @raven: @Gin & Tonic: Two nights ago at the press availability/impromptu Q&A The top flag visible in King’s bundle was the Russian flag. He was also asked about the Israeli one, which was in the middle of the bundle.

  23. 23.

    burnspbesq

    I find it just sooooo precious when Krugman, who is approximately my age, posts shaky cell phone videos of live performances by his new favorite bands.

  24. 24.

    schrodingers_cat

    @EBT: I used to read Allie’s blog but somehow I missed this cake post. Very funny! I am like that with respect to potato chips. I can scarf down an entire bag. That’s why I never buy potato chips except for the 1 to 1.5 oz pack.
    ETA: Thanks for sharing.

  29. 29.

    Gin & Tonic

    @schrodingers_cat: I doubt that T. can skate nearly as well.

    Actually, I haven’t been watching that show, so I don’t know how they’re depicting Protopopov and can’t make a judgement. Historically he was a minor figure, and by the time of the revolution was so addled by syphilis that he couldn’t have been effective if he wanted to.

    More interestingly, Protopopov the skater has aged very gracefully. Here’s video of him skating with his wife last year. He’s 83 in that, she’s 81 or 82. Gives some of us old farts something to think about.

  33. 33.

    Gin & Tonic

    @Renie: If your son is named Donald McCarthy, then his article intentionally mis-quoted her, and the magazine is foolish to stand behind that.

  37. 37.

    hovercraft

    @SiubhanDuinne:
    Someone here posted a while ago that she no longer has her dogs. The speculation was that they are a tripping hazard for someone of her advanced years, and if something happened to her, they would miss her.

  39. 39.

    NotMax

    Jimmy Carter is a great American and a helluva man.

    And constantly trailed by rabbits clutching a book titled “To Serve Jimmy.”

  40. 40.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @hovercraft:

    That might have been me. I think she is down to two corgis and one dorgi, or maybe the other way around. She is not replacing them as they die, but last I heard she still had a few.

  42. 42.

    Kathleen

    @efgoldman: My latest addiction is Cheez Its. I managed to finish a box while I was reading the nutrition advice on the previous thread. Better than chips, which I usually consume while watching Sean T promote his latest “Impossible Abs & Ass” DVD series. About twice a year I have to have some Cheetos. Not the baked ones – the fried ones.

    ETA After which I contemplate the swelling of my ankles.

  46. 46.

    greengoblin

    Since this is an open thread started with baking, I will ask here. I tried Tamara’s bread recipe and it was very good except that mine rose out instead of up. So we ended up with flat bread. Trying another batch: can someone tell me what to do to get it to rise up instead of out?

    Thank you!

  48. 48.

    schrodingers_cat

    @Renie:

    That any of this can be taken as serious is a true detriment to left wing discourse in America. No solutions to the rampant problems in America, income inequality, global warming, racism, sexism, capitalism, are addressed by clinging to these conspiracy theories.

    The Russian connection is more than a conspiracy theory as President Obama’s actions against Russia and its operatives show. I am sorry but I disagree with what your son has written.

  50. 50.

    NotMax

    @Kathleen

    The white cheddar flavor is surprisingly tasty.

    @hovercraft

    An elderly acquaintance with diminished sight recently tripped over his dog (a Chow) and ended up spending a month in rehab for a broken leg. Said dog is now an outside pet (has 19 acres to wander around on).

    (For whatever reason, these old eyes today misread your nym as hovercrat. Not a bad name for Baud’s party next time out.  :) )

  51. 51.

    Betty Cracker

    @Renie: I disagree w/ what your son wrote, but obviously doxxing people and threatening them is wrong. Hope the hotheads back off soon.

  52. 52.

    Gin & Tonic

    @Renie:

    On Twitter, writer Sarah Kendzior tried to claim that Trump was a KGB sleeper cell operative going back to the late 1980s. She then went onto Joy Reid’s MSNBC show to make the same claims with a panel of likeminded individuals.

    Maybe she is upset because she, in fact, did *not* claim that he was a KGB sleeper cell operative going back to the late 1980’s, and did *not* go onto Joy Reid’s show to make the same claims, as verified by both Joy Reid and by the published transcript of the show. Publishing false information is wrong; if done with malice, it is libel.

    When the writer’s “update” simply doubled down, that certainly didn’t help.

  53. 53.

    a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)

    @EBT:

    There is no way any of you are young enough to have ever read this.

    The fuck? We’re (many of us) older than you (I gather from your assertion) but we’re not dead or unable to find interesting websites.

  55. 55.

    NotMax

    All the chat about exercise and gyms was enough to finally spur me to take butter and eggs out of the fridge to get to room temp, first step in mixing up the whiskey cake I normally make at year-end holiday time but have been procrastinating about this year.

  57. 57.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Renie: I don’t mean to pile on, but Joy Ann Reid, on who’s show Dr. Kendzior made the statement, is backing Kendzior.
    https://twitter.com/JoyAnnReid/status/814885824387018754

    Follow

    Joy ReidVerified account
    ‏@JoyAnnReid Joy Reid Retweeted Sarah Kendzior
    Verified indeed. Sarah said no such thing.Joy Reid added,

    And here’s a link to the clip of her on Joy Ann Reid’s show that includes the statement that has been misquoted:
    https://twitter.com/amjoyshow/status/810143044120940544

    ETA: Regardless, your son does not deserve to be harassed/threatened on social media or in real life for that matter.

  63. 63.

    Jeffro

    @Gin & Tonic:

    Not sure if this has been posted, but here’s a picture of the incoming POTUS doing a grip-and-grin with a convicted murderer who is holding a Russian flag.

    This is from some media tour King was doing in 2006. But in light of recent new, it’s delicious.

    Hmm…let me think a sec…if China had hacked the RNC and used the hacked emails to slowly drive down GOP turnout/drive ‘both sides’ media coverage and Hillz had won…then Hillz refused to investigate China…THEN Hillz posed with Katy Perry holding a Chinese flag…

    …oh never mind, I’m sure that Republicans would just take it in stride and “move on to bigger and better things”…

  64. 64.

    Gin & Tonic

    @Renie: I have read the article, the transcript your son references as a source, the subsequent Tweetstorms from Kendzior, from your son and from his editor/publisher, and I am not wrong. Your son attributed things to her that she did not say. Writing that “she tried to claim X” is a BS way around that – how can he know what she was *intending*? He couldn’t write “she claimed” because she didn’t actually claim it. He and/or the magazine need to retract that.

  66. 66.

    Gin & Tonic

    @Renie:

    But nothing justifies what they are doing to him.

    I agree completely. Nothing justifies what people are doing to Kendzior either, and when your son’s article brings Trumpbots and Putinites out of the woodwork to threaten her, that’s wrong as well.

  67. 67.

    Jeffro

    @schrodingers_cat:

    I am sorry but I disagree with what your son has written.

    Her son sounds like a Bernie Bro. How is “the left” offering no solutions?!? How is focusing on Trump and Russia taking away from those solutions – can’t we walk and chew gum?

    Sheesh. Kendzior’s been awesomely all over Donald Arsonist…more power to her.

  68. 68.

    NotMax

    Horrid thought which just flashed across the frontal lobes:

    Don Boorleone could appoint half the Duggar family to SCOTUS.

  69. 69.

    Juice Box

    @NotMax: I’m going to get a knee replacement next summer thanks to getting in the way of an excited puppy at the dog park many years ago. Sadly, the puppy is now in a box on our mantel.

  70. 70.

    oklahomo

    @Mnemosyne: You should see some of the articles; sometimes there will be 2 or 3 it’s/its mistakes. They use “kids” instead of “children” in some articles, which I find jarring, but that may just be me personally. They use contractions like “could’ve”, which I find even more jarring.

  71. 71.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Renie: No one has said that it was right that he was doxxed and threatened. Many have explicitly stated that it is wrong.

  74. 74.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Jeffro: @schrodingers_cat: @Gin & Tonic:

    @Renie: is concerned for her son. None of us are party to this dispute. I’m pretty sure none of us but Renie knows her son. Regardless of the accuracy of the quotation or how the update/correction has been handled so far, how about we cut Renie (and each other) a little slack. Several of us, including myself, have provided the basic information surrounding the correct quotation in context. We’ve also expressed our concern for her son and indicated that being threatened on social media (or real life) is unacceptable. Let her son, his editor, and Sarah Kendzior resolve the larger dispute at this point rather than speculate on Renie’s son’s political leanings.

  75. 75.

    Gin & Tonic

    @Renie: I agree with you about threats, unreservedly.

    However, I believe your son and his publisher to be dangerously naive and ill-informed about the nature of Russian influence, as a result of which they are unable to understand the difference between what Kendzior wrote and what they say she wrote. Having “kompromat” on someone and being a “KGB sleeper cell operative” are radically different things, which your son and his publisher conflate. Kendzior has lived and worked in an authoritarian, former-Soviet state. She knows what she is talking about. With due respect, I believe your son is over his head on this topic.

  76. 76.

    a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)

    @EBT: That’s the first time I’ve ever been called, or even imagined to be, stodgy. Woo hoo! Perhaps I’ve been too restrained lately.

    Last month I was called “a total fucking badass” by a 27 year old biology major who is an Afghanistan vet. I don’t think he sees me as stodgy, but he knows me in 3D.

  79. 79.

    Adam L Silverman

    @efgoldman: I have worn a kilt and I have a clearance. Usually I’m wearing a suit though. Unless downrange, then usually defense contractor chic.

  80. 80.

    Juice Box

    @EBT: I was reading hyperbole and a half when it was still in black and white.

    Cake wrecks always cheers me up, no matter what country is about to become an authoritarian dictatorship.

  82. 82.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @raven:

    Maybe not so much recently, but when she was younger and spryer, she was a pretty hands-on dog owner from everything I’ve read. Active and engaged in their training (not just the corgis and dorgis — the “pets” — but also the working dogs). Obviously she has staff that the rest of us don’t, but she is said to be very involved in every part of their lives.

  84. 84.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Gin & Tonic: I don’t have any particular problems. I’m not moderating the comments and I don’t think anything needs to deleted. Renie is clearly upset because of the threats to her son, hence her original comment. Just wanted to reinforce that before it gets lost in the shuffle and we make a bad personal situation worse regardless of what should/needs to happen in regard to the actual article her son wrote.

    I didn’t want to single anyone out and I didn’t want to just do a standalone comment, so I replied to as many of us that have responded to Renie as I could find doing a quick scroll up and down the page.

  85. 85.

    a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)

    @Omnes Omnibus: As you note, many here have stated that doxxing and threats are unacceptable behavior, period. I’ll say it again. I don’t care what political opinions the bad actors hold; it’s wrong.

    That’s an entirely distinct issue from the inaccuracy of what was written. I read the sources referenced, and I believe the article to be a misrepresentation of what was written/tweeted, perhaps based on a lack of understanding of nuance. Doxxing and threats are unacceptable under any circumstances, and I understand a parent’s concern in this situation.

  87. 87.

    Mnemosyne

    I finally heard from the Devil Woman tonight and there may finally be some movement towards the Disney World trip with my nieces. Everyone keep their lucky appendages crossed.

    Though I have to say, WTF Silver Airways? You changed the RSW to MCO flight times on me? Good thing I hadn’t purchased the goddamned tickets yet!

  89. 89.

    a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)

    @Omnes Omnibus: Thanks for remembering! I think that alone disqualifies me from “stodgy.”

    EBT – I have not a clue about your age or cultural interests. Do you know who Bootsy is?

  90. 90.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Jeffro: No worries, same thing I replied to G&T in comment 104:

    I don’t have any particular problems. I’m not moderating the comments and I don’t think anything needs to deleted. Renie is clearly upset because of the threats to her son, hence her original comment. Just wanted to reinforce that before it gets lost in the shuffle and we make a bad personal situation worse regardless of what should/needs to happen in regard to the actual article her son wrote.

    I didn’t want to single anyone out and I didn’t want to just do a standalone comment, so I replied to as many of us that have responded to Renie as I could find doing a quick scroll up and down the page.

  93. 93.

    debbie

    @efgoldman:

    From bootsycollins.com:

    Bootsy Collins is the Man Who Put Bass In Yer Face — the original funk ‘n’ roll wild child, the Godzilla-toned high minister of the all-powerful.

  97. 97.

    Jeffro

    @efgoldman:

    Dave Robichaux’ second wife in the novels by James Lee Burke.

    And JLB is still kicking & still knocking it out of the park, too…”The Jealous Kind” was a real hoot. The last paragraph was eye-watering poetry.

  105. 105.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @efgoldman:

    The servant problem, such a bore in these trying times. I’m down to two footmen, one of whom doubles as chauffeur; I now have a combined cook-housekeeper instead of one of each; and the butler demands two half-days off each week.

  106. 106.

    Another Scott

    In other news, Taiwan’s President plans to stop in San Francisco and Houston in January before Obama leaves office. Reuters:

    China is deeply suspicious of Tsai, who it thinks wants to push for the formal independence of Taiwan, a self-governing island that Beijing regards as a renegade province, ineligible for state-to-state relations.

    China’s Foreign Ministry repeated a previous call for the United States not to allow the transit and not send any “wrong signals to Taiwan independence forces”.

    “We think everyone is very clear on her real intentions,” the ministry said, without explaining.

    The United States, which switched diplomatic recognition from Taiwan to China in 1979, has acknowledged the Chinese position that there is only “one China” and that Taiwan is part of it.

    Tsai is transiting through the United States on her way to and from visiting Honduras, Nicaragua, Guatemala and El Salvador. She will leave Taiwan on Jan. 7 and return on Jan. 15.

    Tsai will arrive in Houston on Jan. 7 and leave the following day. On her return, she will arrive in San Francisco on Jan. 13, Presidential Office spokesman Alex Huang told a regular news briefing.

    It’ll be interesting to see how much see she and Trump’s people want to push this before Donnie takes office. Obama is seemingly going to have his hands full until noon on the 20th. :-(

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  108. 108.

    RobertDSC-Mac Mini

    Jabrill Peppers should be kicked off the Wolverines’ team. Quitting on the day of the biggest game of the season is unacceptable. Even if he was “injured” he still should have played.

    Pathetic.

  110. 110.

    Jeffro

    @efgoldman: Oh yeah – his Dave Robicheaux books are so atmospheric, it’s incredible. You keep glancing up, expecting to see Spanish moss hanging in your living room. He makes you crave the food and the music and a cold Jax while you’re reading, too.

  112. 112.

    Jeffro

    Btw, since this is an Open Thread: for those not up on why school vouchers are just more giveaways to the wealthy, here’s how Indiana’s voucher program is working out:

    Fully half of all participants never had their kids in public schools anyway. So these vouchers are now covering the cost of private school that folks were already paying for instead of sending their kids to (and taking part in the life of, and advancement of,) the local public schools.

    “The political strategy that voucher supporters have used is to start off small and targeted — low-income families and special-education students — then gradually expand it to more groups,” said Douglas Harris, a Tulane University professor of economics who favors choice but has been critical of DeVos’s free-market approach. “That’s also something the Trump-DeVos team will likely try. The term ‘Trojan horse’ comes to mind.”

  114. 114.

    Jeffro

    @Jeffro: And naturally everyone here can see that the same thing will play out over and over with the Trumpista “Profit First!” crowd…vouchers for Medicare, Medicaid, this new infrastructure scam that’s coming…wholesale looting of the public good and treasury, in order to line the pockets of the 0.1%

  116. 116.

    Jeffro

    @efgoldman:

    The book I’m talking about – and I’m not sure which it was – I felt like I could smell the flowers and plants.

    Well, his first few are Neon Rain, Heaven’s Prisoners (arguably his best), Black Cherry Blues, A Stained Glass Radiance, and A Morning For Flamingos. But honestly almost all of his Robicheaux books are like that. He talks about the smell of the bayou and fish fries and dive bars and before you know it, you’re gone.

    His recent books have all been based on his ‘colorful’ ancestors and their stories and they’re good, but they’re mostly centered in Texas and just don’t have the kick of the New Orleans/Robicheaux stories.

  117. 117.

    Yarrow

    @Another Scott: I heard about the Taiwanese president’s transit visit on NPR. I think no one really knows how it will all work out. Trump is upending longstanding American policy even before he takes office. Can’t imagine what he can do once he’s there.

  118. 118.

    JordanRules

    @RobertDSC-Mac Mini: Snark?

    If not then you might want to chill on deciding when\how these college kids should keep sacrificing their bodies.

    That game is not important in the scheme of things and I suspect you know this. Great game tho!!

  119. 119.

    Jeffro

    @efgoldman: yes…the last few like Swan Peak and a couple others took place mostly in Montana (where Burke resides full-time now). I thought Glass Rainbow would have made an outstanding end to the Robicheaux books and so with apologies to JLB I kind of consider it to be just that.

    He does check in on his message board almost daily, so feel free to drop him a line if you want. And grab a Robicheaux Dock & Bait Shop hat while you’re at it!

    PS Outside of the Robicheaux books, “Cimmaron Rose” and “White Doves at Morning” are pretty kickass. His two short story collections are great, too.

    PS #2: the Katrina book was Tin Roof Blowdown and you’re right, it captured that tragedy and related issues about as well as anything I’ve ever read

  120. 120.

    Truegster

    I’m guess I’m in the minority here, but Jimmy Carter’s military support for Suharto actions in East Timor were immoral. It was basically genocide. It’s not like America was enforcing human rights all across the globe instead of multinational corporate interests (S.America,Africa)during the Carter administration. He does seem really friendly though, nice smile, likes to build houses, yea.

  121. 121.

    Steeplejack (tablet)

    @Mnemosyne:

    I don’t know if MeTV shifts for time zones or if it’s already too late, but Bobby Troup was on Perry Mason tonight, “The Case of the Missing Melody” (1961). He plays a jazz drummer named Bongo Jones. Need I say more?

    Jazz great Barney Kessel is the guitarist in the group.

  122. 122.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Truegster: Are you trying to start a fight? Bringing up nearly 40 y/o things indicates wanting to start a fight.

    ETA: I have no interest in having that fight. I doubt that anyone else is interested either.

  124. 124.

    SectionH

    @efgoldman:

    [delurking] not to be confused with Jan Burke (I definitely have to reread the name sometimes to sort out who’s being mentioned.) She’s another good mystery writer. But her setting is San Piedras, CA iirc. (Holy Feet, lol).

    Re New Orleans, I hope you’ve read Confederacy of Dunces. I had a friend who lived in NOLA for many years assure me it was pretty much accurate, under-aggerated the crazy if anything. I’ve visited NOLA scores of times, dealt with natives, and never doubted her assessment.

    We were there a few days this time last year, and I was never so happy to escape from a place in my life, in spite of finding a great restaurant scene in a new(ish, new to me) area.

    eta: oh the Humidity… and 85º in December isn’t normal even in NOLA.

  126. 126.

    Steeplejack (tablet)

    @oklahomo: @oklahomo:

    Copyediting is dead. Headline on that story: “Arkansas Legislators File Resolutions for Convention of States to Reign in U.S. Government.”

  129. 129.

    SectionH

    @efgoldman: Uh… I doubt it then. Follow my link. It’s NOT a mystery novel. It’s a fucking brilliant piece Americana.

    Sui generis? Just like NOLA…

  131. 131.

    NotMax

    @efgoldman

    Confederacy of Dunces is a fantastic novel by John Kennedy Toole, published posthumously after years of false starts and rejections. He was also posthumously awarded the Pulitzer Prize for fiction for it.

  132. 132.

    Mnemosyne

    @efgoldman:

    This is why I’ve been working as a secretary for the last 20 years after my nascent copyediting career got killed by the collapse of the magazine industry in Los Angeles. I could be worse off — Fred Clark of Slacktivist actually was a professional newspaper copy editor for years, and last I heard, his day job was working at Home Depot or a similar big box store.

  133. 133.

    seaboogie

    @SiubhanDuinne: efgoldman:

    Corgis can do no wrong.

    A friend of mine who has two might disagree.

    You know The QUEEN?????

    I don’t know about the entirety of the internets, but you totally win this thread, at the very least!

  134. 134.

    Anya

    @Adam L Silverman: I am puzzled by these people who decide harassing someone or threatening them is a viable option. I just don’t get it. No matter what someone writes or says, it does not justify harassment or threats.

  135. 135.

    NotMax

    @efgoldman

    I asked him straight out if there were any copy editors. His one word answer, “nope.”

    A happenstance both obvious and galling to the vanishing band who take pride in the written word and cherish clear communication.

  136. 136.

    Dog Dawg Damn

    @Renie: I love how the CIA, FBI, DHS, DNI, & NSA all calling foul over Russia is somehow a ridiculous theory. This is why we will lose this war. Our side lacks the imagination to call this what it is.

  147. 147.

    SectionH

    @Steeplejack (tablet): You’re totes right. I did talk with her at a Left Coast Crime a few years ago, where she was the GoH, and she did make the feet joke – probably including that the piedras was a real place.
    Not snark to say TY for corrections.

  148. 148.

    EBT

    @Omnes Omnibus: Well if you are gonna come on to me…

    And in my defense I was drunk and only thinking internet culture because the last topic was internet culture. Also I may have spent a decade playing brass.

  150. 150.

    Truegster

    In rebuttal to several – Then Reagan gets a pass for what he did. I’m not cool with that. So, unless you can convince me that I’m the hypocritical douche that needs to understand it’s only when Republicans support atrocities that I need to be morally bothered by, then you all win, I concede, Carter’s a great guy.
    Drive-by? Need me to mention what Carter and the U.S. was morally obligated to do for Vietnam after we destroyed? If you want, I can hang like a battleship and lob that all day.
    If you want to know what the point is – I personally don’t live in a post-truth reality and I am discovering that Carter is apparently the line for some of you.
    It’s good to know on my part, whom I’m reading discuss policies and politics, where some of your moral compasses stay and when it shifts.
    Some of you give Carter a pass obviously, I do not. Good to know on a political blog, right?

  152. 152.

    Truegster

    Yeah, therefore Carter isn’t a great guy, so we are in agreement. It would be binary for me to say “Carter good, Reagan bad”. I’m clearly not doing that.
    And Cheers to you Scott, wishing you and yours a Happy New Years

  153. 153.

    Mnemosyne

    @Truegster:

    I think you’re intermixing “great guy” and “great president.” Carter has been a much, much better ex-president doing good works than he was as a one-term president. He was a pretty crappy president who made some really terrible foreign policy mistakes that Reagan picked up and ran with.

    I was raised Catholic, which makes me tend to believe in reform and reconciliation, so I feel that Carter’s bad actions as president in Central America are balanced (but not erased) by his good actions there after he was president. If people can never, ever realize that their actions were bad and take steps to make amends for those actions, then what’s the point of having a society at all? Just let people thrash around doing bad shit without ever having to apologize or explain.

  154. 154.

    Truegster

    @Mnemosyne: I believe in the concept of Truth and Reconciliation, has Carter made any public statements to address, recognize or apologize for that American past? I’m not aware of it. His I/P work doesn’t cover what he was directly responsible for, Truth and Reconciliation isn’t about changing the subject, trying to go out and then fix others wrongs.
    As a fact, he did not make amends with Vietnam in the aftermath.

    I was talking about American Government and most definitely like to separate it from Religious notions of Justice and Repentance. War crimes were committed and laws broken in several countries, many times in South America and that old Catholic Church wasn’t innocent either.
    Remember the letter Archbishop Oscar Romero wrote Carter before he was assassinated?
    It sounds to me that you’re giving him forgiveness when he never asked for it.

  155. 155.

    Another Scott

    @Truegster: Of all the things to be upset about these days, what Carter did in office 35+ years ago seems weird to me. Especially in this thread.

    Carter’s record (good and bad) is not that of some monster.

    FWIW.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

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