Anyone else feel like we are living in a movie? One of those where the whole project began under great auspices and portent, only to go off the rails somewhere in the second act, the executive producer absconded with the budget, the talent hit the silks, and the grips and editors are left with the cutting room floor leavings to finish the godsforsaken thing off — and the whole audience awaits with deep foreboding about what comes next in Act 3?
Like the Movie cannot be Stopped, but rather it must be ENDURED?
There will be History, someday. (Um, I think . . .)
11.
Elizabelle
@Hungry Joe: Yeah. All the waves lapping put me to sleep in the theatre. Never finished that movie.
TrumpWorld. We all have bad hair now.
Every day is a bad hair day.
Whatever.
12.
laura
@Hungry Joe: that urchin’s hair is a crime against humanity. Enduring any remembrance of that movie does nothing to gird my loins for the days to come.
Bring back Gav the dog. Or Steve. Stat!
13.
burnspbesq
Strange year. All the celeb deaths. Leicester City. Trump. Carnegie Deli closes. The Fucking Cubs. And to top it all off, Beats releases a set of decent-sounding headphones.
14.
Elizabelle
@No One of Consequence: Hmmm. The good thing is, it clobbers him on the way down. But still….
We’re packing to leave for Florida in a few hours to visit my SIL. I need to be warm for a while before the apocalypse.
21.
RepubAnon
@BGinCHI: More Coal Country voter: “But my black lung treatments will still be covered – right? Right?”
Paul Ryan: “Sorry, Charlie – there just isn’t enough money in the budget to save your life and still be able to get massive tax cuts for the rich passed… But at least the liberals will be pissed off.”
Coal Country Voter: “Promise?
22.
Soprano2
Kind of off-topic, but I just read that Anthony Bourdain, “another East Coast elitist liberal”, joined the parade of people who “slammed his fellow liberals for not understanding WWC people”, or something like that. I’ve had it with this crap. Why are only liberals supposed to reach out in understanding and love to the people who say they hate us and hold us in “utter contempt”, even though they like many of the things we stand for (for example Medicare, SS, health care for all, and a living wage). He says ‘privileged’ liberals have ‘utter contempt’ for working class people, and that’s why Trump won the election. I keep reading stories saying that all those elite liberals say that WWC people are “trash” and “stupid” and “idiots”, but the only place I’ve actually ever seen anyone say that is in the critiques written by conservatives about liberals! (I have read many articles saying “How could anyone vote for Trump?” but that’s not the same as calling someone an idiot.) Why is it OK for WWC people to hold me in utter contempt, calling me all kinds of horrible names and denigrating everything I stand for and believe in, yet I’m supposed to nod my head, smile, and say “I respect your beliefs” to people who support those who think it’s OK to say President Obama isn’t a citizen of the U.S., who say he’s a Muslim as if the word “Muslim” is the worst possible insult, who compare our First Family to animals, and who compare people like me to the worst of the worst. People on the right say they don’t like PC, but the truth is that they only dislike “PC” when it keeps them from saying whatever awful, insulting thing about anyone they don’t like comes into their heads. They want me to acknowledge that not all people who voted for Trump are like that, yet they paint with a broad brush when they talk about me! They want to act all offended when someone says “Happy Holidays” to them, all while telling you with scorn and contempt how easily offended liberals are!!!!!
I hate to tell Trump voters this, but when you voted for him you tacitly said that racism, sexism, xenophobia and religious bigotry are A-OK with you. Whether or not you are racist, sexist, xenophobic or religiously bigoted is certainly relevant to you personally, but your vote endorsed all of those things, because the man you voted for expressed sentiments and ideas that embrace all of those concepts, and you knew it – you certainly couldn’t get away from hearing about it. You voted for a man who is openly supported by the KKK, neo-Nazis, and other white supremacists!! And not only did they embrace him, but your candidate only indifferently repudiated any of them!! How can I openly embrace and empathize with people who are willing to accept such things because they’re scared and upset that the U.S. isn’t as white as it used to be? I actually heard an interview on NPR right after the election where a black Clinton voter told a white female Trump voter than when Trump said “Make America Great Again” he heard “Make America White Again”, and the Trump voter said she had never thought of it that way before! Lady, I thought of that literally the second I heard that slogan – how could you not?
I guess that’s a lot of words to ask why it is that liberals are always supposed to be the bigger people. I’m tired of it, that’s one reason we lose battles; we reach out our hand to try to understand, and the other side cuts it off and laughs about it, and then gets others to criticize us for not reaching out to them.
I didn’t think the WWC were idiots or hold them in contempt until they voted en masse for Trump. Once they shot themselves in the foot like that, was I supposed to pretend they weren’t fucking idiots just to spare their tender fee-fees?
I think what’s going on is that the WWC is slowly waking up to the fact that they fucked the whole country over by voting for Trump, but they’re still trying to dodge their responsibility.
@Soprano2: i feel like the folks writing these “liberals hate the ‘white working class'” articles (or in general having these opinions) have their entire experience of liberals shaped by only knowing and/or being asshole rich people from New York.
@Soprano2: Can’t win without white voters. So yeah, when you lose and reason you lose is a core part of your constituency – white voters without college degrees – abandons you en masse – then yes, you have to get off your high horse and fix it.
Largest single voting block for Obama in 2012 – whites without a college degree (39% of Obama voters, 10 points larger than African-Americans)
Its not about your fee-fees. Its about winning. Which Democrats are horribly not doing, across the entire board. (White House, Congress, Governorships, state legislatures, county dogcatcher…)
…the WWC is slowly waking up to the fact that they fucked the whole country over by voting for Trump…
I don’t know. I think we’re still many months away from that, if it ever happens. For many, if not most Trump voters, I sincerely doubt the realization of what a horrendous mistake they made will ever occur to them. These are not thoughtful people, nor are they people given to taking responsibility for their stupidity. In fact, their stupidity is the real problem; it allowed them to vote for a sociopathic con artist, while simultaneously believing that he won’t do what he repeatedly promised to do (for example, repeal Obamacare). I mean, six years after the ACA passed and 2 years after it was fully implemented, they still don’t understand why a mandate is necessary. And what percentage of them think that China is almost solely responsible for the loss of American jobs versus those who understand the dominant role that automation has played?
I also one ate at the HoJo’s in Times Square, when I was 18. That was a very narrow time window for someone my age it turns out. I’m amazed a tourist like me can now tell people “I remember famous place X” in Manhattan.
39.
SFBayAreaGal
OT, History channel as a series running right now called America: Fact vs. Fiction.
Yeah. For what they are (Bluetooth in-ears) and what they cost ($200), the PowerBeats 3 are pretty damn good. The flattest Beats I’ve ever heard, with good transient response. Soundstage isn’t especially wide or especially deep, but it’s stable and pretty accurate. Decent as a phone headset. Battery life is alleged to be 12 hours, and I’m at seven and still going strong.
Not trading them for my Nobles, but for non-serious listening at the gym and the office, they’re absolutely fine.
41.
janeform
@Gin & Tonic: Another option: 2nd Avenue Deli in midtown and the upper east side.
Meanwhile, John Cole’s buddy, Soviet mole Glenn Greenwald, is questioning Russian hacking claims and planting wet kisses on Breitbart
An astute commenter pointed out that GG’s praise of Breitbart for “giving a voice to people who are otherwise excluded” is equally applicable to Stormfront, Der Sturmer, or pretty much any crank or hate site on the internet.
New York Times taking Fox New’s word about wait times in the VA system and need for “reform”.
46.
Another Scott
@Major Major Major Major: I haven’t read the article, but looking at Bourdain’s Twitter feed, and seeing a few of his shows, I don’t get the impression that he’s a kook who lives in an ivory tower.
The article was on Yahoo, which is where I saw it. It’s yet another installment in the series “famous liberals tell other liberals how terrible they are”.
Hello, I’m a longtime mostly lurker here for about 10 years, have only posted infrequently. And I will probably continue to be someone who mostly lurks, although I might be inclined to post in threads concerning the upcoming administration’s likely pushback against the advances that have been made for transgender rights and acceptance by the Obama administration.
Over the past few months, I’ve done the coming out process with my immediate family and I’m extremely lucky that they’ve all being accepting and supportive.I hope to start hormone therapy soon in this coming year.
Sometimes I get a great feeling of dread in my stomach about what might happen in the next few years. But I also try to hope that places like this site and other progressive voices will be able to hold off the worst that could happen if people don’t speak and just roll over.
I believe LBJ, in 1964, was the last Democrat to win a majority of white votes.
For whatever reason, white folks have been flocking to the Republican Party for the last 52 years.
But somehow Democrats have still won Presidential elections, since then.
Go figure.
51.
m.j.
Yes. I was able to listen to On Point today and I had to keep turning down the volume to shout at the radio.
They simply refuse to acknowledge they gave Trump vastly more favorable coverage. They also can’t acknowledge that they are still doing it by trying to pretend that he is not in over his head even when they have to edit his gibberish.
52.
Mike in NC
Kevin Costner’s body of work has largely been a huge steaming pile…
53.
mai naem mobile
Ryan Seacrest got stuck in the elevator this morning at GMA where he was going to promo the 2017 NYE celebration. I think thats a not a good sign .
What I’m calling bullshit on are the never-ending articles about how terrible liberals are to WWC people, without any acknowledgement that WWC people are equally terrible to liberals! I’m tired of the idea that WWC people are all virtuous and moral and totally right, while the rest of us are clueless and suck and should just shut up because Trump won the EC even though our candidate got 2.8+ million more votes overall than he did. I know we can’t win without white voters (I am one, dammit!), but I also think there is no way anyone who believes Obama is a Muslim from Kenya is a voter we can ever win over. What we need to do is figure out why people who voted for Obama also voted for Trump, and work on getting those voters back, while also working to help everyone be able to vote in the face of more and more onerous voter ID laws.
55.
Calming Influence
@burnspbesq, et al: Yeah, well I miss the Automat, but you won’t hear me whining about it.
Now what are these “head phone” devices you speak of?
56.
Gin & Tonic
@janeform: I’m so old I remember when the 2nd Avenue Deli was located on 2nd Avenue.
Anthony Bourdain, celebrity chef and outspoken host of CNN’s “Parts Unknown,” says he will not eat in restaurants owned by president-elect Donald Trump.
“I will never eat in his restaurant,” Bourdain said in an interview with Eater published Wednesday. “I have utter contempt for him, utter and complete contempt.”
The host went on to encourage other chefs and celebrities to refuse to endorse or normalize Trump, criticizing Al Gore and Kanye West, among others, who have met with the president-elect in the past several weeks.
“I’m not asking you to start putting up barricades now, but when they come and ask you, ‘Are you with us?’ You do have an option. You can say ‘No thanks, guys. I don’t look good in a brown shirt. Makes me look a little, I don’t know, not great. It’s not slimming,’” Bourdain said.
our candidate got 2.8+ million more votes overall than he did.
Yeah, but that’s only because she ran up the score in CA.
In Real America, Trump crushed her in the popular vote.
/right-wing talking point
59.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Another Scott: I think he’s good people, but he’s not known for thinking and talking about politics. He just happened to say to a right-leaning writer– that interview’s from Reason, isn’t it?– the things a rightie wants to get a “celebrity” to say. In the same interview Bourdain bashes Bill Maher for being smug and insular, and on the last RTWBM I saw, Maher was finger-wagging about how he warned “liberals” about being to smug and “PC”.
@Another Scott: You don’t have to live in an ivory tower to be a kook.
61.
Baud
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: There are certainly asshole liberals, but that’s true with every group. I see no reason we alone have to accept collective responsibility for the worst of us.
@maryQ: It would have made sense if she saw it that way, given that the Pentagon, State Department, DNC, DCCC and gods know who else were all hacked and the Clinton server wasn’t.
63.
Aleta
@Gin & Tonic: Was it really so long ago? I remember going there after meetings at St. Marks.
64.
Mike in DC
@gene108:
We really don’t have to increase our share of the white vote that dramatically. If we get 44 or 45 percent, we’re in landslide territory. 40 percent probably would have been enough for a Clinton win.
@Yastreblyansky: Reading through twitter, the id of the semi-informed, it’s clear that a whole lot of people think the Russians hacked the Clintons’ personal server and found evidence of illegal activity. One die-hard Wilmer supporter was ranting about how the Clinton Foundation paid for Chelsea’s three million dollar wedding. What’s your source? -asked some other Egg -The emails! tweet-shrieked the Wilmer Egg
Was the Carnegie Deli ever anything more than an overpriced tourist trap? Obviously, I never lived in NYC, but I did have an overpriced meal there as a tourist.
An occasional old-time lefty troll popped up in one of the threads below to tell us all that Obama and Hillary were preparing for war against Russia, so Russia only acted out of self-defense when they interfered to get Trump elected. I did not feel like engaging trolls today since I already have a lingering migraine, but I guarantee you his sources include Russia Today and other Russian propaganda outfits that target the left to make them feel “smart.”
Also, too, in case people don’t know, we are sometimes using the code word “Wilmer” to refer to Hillary’s erstwhile primary opponent not as a slam on him, but to prevent the thread-hijacking trolls with Google alerts set to detect his name from descending on us to defend the honor of their personal Jesus.
Now what are these “head phone” devices you speak of?
A way for your spouse, SO, or offspring to listen to the crappy music he/she/they inexplicably love(s), without disturbing you while you’re listening to the great music you prefer.
I saw your note about the Uniqlo tights but I can’t remember if I had a chance to reply since I went to the zoo yesterday. I may try to buy a pair or two once the post-Christmas mall crowds die down a bit and see if they work in my chilly office. I know 68 degrees doesn’t sound that cold, but it is when you’re sitting at a desk all day!
77.
Corner Stone
Parachuting in here to ask if anyone has mentioned Trump’s tweet about how smart Putin is for delaying action vs our expulsions?
@Mnemosyne: You can get the ultra warm and pair them with boots and boot socks.
79.
Renie
@Soprano2: I was in a local deli that had FauxNews on the tv. The blonde ‘reporter’ was saying how the democrats abandoned the WWC and now they were abandoning the Jewish voters (this was the day of Kerry’s speech). It was annoying to hear and realized that it is the conservatives who put this line of thinking out there and then everyone else joins in.
Why is there no one on the democratic side who speaks out against all this propaganda? I feel like no one is doing anything on our behalf. I’m concerned most of the dems in Congress will roll over cuz they are out-numbered. Every day there is more and more idiots spewing out GOP talking points but no one on our side.
80.
Corner Stone
This is fucking embarrassing. Does he think he’s buttering up a Prom Queen or some shit? WTF is going on?
Only you so far. And fuck you for ruining what’s left of my morning.
82.
SFBayAreaGal
@Gretchen: God damn it, I’m a veteran and I have had no problems getting VA medical services from the Palo Alto or San Francisco VA.
83.
germy
@Gin & Tonic: I remember reading about a legendary deli in NYC… Hanson’s. All the old comedians met there: Lenny Bruce, Rodney Dangerfield, Will Jordan… that generation. Jerry Lewis had sex in a phone booth standing up, according to legend. The big stars would hang out, and the young hopefuls would stand around hoping to get noticed. I don’t know if Hanson’s still exists, or it it was torn down (like so many old places in NYC) for something unaffordable.
84.
Starfish
@germy: He said something to the effect that it is complete garbage for people who are hiring illegal immigrants in their kitchens to be so vocal about deporting them.
I understand a healthy skepticism of our politicians but I find it positively surreal that alot of people on the left are taking the word of Donald Trump and Putin over President Obama and pretty much the unanimous opinion of our intelligence services.
I get why Trump and the right want to ignore and deny that fact but I’m genuinely at a loss to why so called lefties in some quarters would deny it.
Putin as Compassionate Conservative? Come, little American children, come play with me.
88.
Another Scott
@Mnemosyne: There’s still almost nothing about the rallies on the January 15 “Day of Action” rallies that Warren Gunnels is supposed to be organizing… :-/
Cheers,
Scott.
89.
germy
Here’s a great blog “Jeremiah’s Vanishing New York”
He goes into detail about the Carnegie Deli closing:
It’s a heartbreaking blog, actually. There’s one thread on the old Ukrainian store that closed. It’d been open for decades and decades (a hundred years??), selling sheet music and stuff like that.
90.
trollhattan
@germy:
His Rome episode went there, making a direct comparison of Trump and Mussolini. I was gobsmacked at the forcefulness and open contempt.
I get why Trump and the right want to ignore and deny that fact but I’m genuinely at a loss to why so called lefties in some quarters would deny it.
Frankly, a lot of them have been propagandized by the Russians and don’t realize it. Russia Today made a specific point of hiring a lot of respected lefty journalists and outlets (like Ed Schultz and Democracy Now) to cover up what they were doing. Russia Today is owned by the Russian government, and not in the way that, say, the BBC is.
So, basically, there’s a fuckton of Russian propaganda circulating through the left and those people refuse to listen when you tell them that they’re being fed Russian propaganda.
I am not "boycotting" anything. I choose to not patronize chefs who tacitly support deporting half the people they've ever worked with.— Anthony Bourdain (@Bourdain) December 22, 2016
@Corner Stone:
I think the main goal is to give a backhanded insult to Obama, but buttering up Putin is a nice side benefit. It’s pathetic that the PEOTUS is such a knob polisher.
95.
Starfish
@Mnemosyne: Yes! I have someone who is leftish and keeps sending me Glenn Greenwald articles.
I get why Trump and the right want to ignore and deny that fact but I’m genuinely at a loss to why so called lefties in some quarters would deny it.
They see Hillary’s loss as an opportunity for advancing their personal goals within the party, e.g. giving up on “identity politics” in favor of trying to win back the WWC. A story that suggests Hillary was done in by foreign interference rather than her own strategic mistakes upsets their goal of correcting those mistakes.
I am still astonished by the woman who was screaming at me about Benghazi and e-mails before the election and wouldn’t listen to what I had to say. I’ve seen her twice since the election and she says not a word about it — it’s as if it didn’t happen. She’s completely oblivious to what’s going down.
98.
Corner Stone
@Roger Moore: I don’t think Trump is much on the subtlety with insults for Obama.
But with this nut job I guess anything is possible. But does he have to hold up his well polished knee pads so high all the time. Sheesh.
@Roger Moore: Lefties do not want to give Dems credit for anything. They want to tar and feather them for the repeal of Glass-Steagall but no credit for passing Dodd-Frank. Its maddening. Check out the thread below, if you don’t believe me.
@Baud: Actually two younger Bernie supporters ( 30s and 20s) I know reluctantly moved to HRC column but the proud anti-Hillz Bernie supporters, for whom voting for the she-devil was against their deeply held principles were old and female. So not just bros.
103.
Another Scott
@Corner Stone: Don’t read the comments on that Tweet (especially replies to Charles Johnson). Too many stupid bots and/or Trolls from Olgino and/or people who can’t think straight…
Cheers,
Scott.
(“And you thought USENET was bad…”)
104.
D58826
No words other than maybe treason or sedition? –
President-elect Donald Trump praised Russian President Vladimir Putin on Friday, lauding him for his decision to not expel U.S. diplomats in response to the Obama administration’s similar move over Russia’s alleged cyberattacks. “Great move on delay (by V. Putin)—I always knew he was very smart!” Trump tweeted. On Thursday, the Obama administration announced a series of measures intended to sanction the Russian government for its alleged hacking into U.S. political institutions including the Democratic National Committee, in an effort to sway the election toward Trump. Putin responded on Friday by saying he will “make further steps to help resurrect Russian-American relations based on the policies that the administration of D. Trump will pursue.”
@Mnemosyne: RT had also been grooming Aaron Swarz, which is why the US gummint threw the book at him so hard and drove him to suicide.
106.
Seth Owen
@Soprano2: Amen to all that. I certainly don’t hold working class whites in contempt. That’s the people I came from. And I remember them valuing an education and being proud that I went to college — an opportunity they didn’t have.
I have heard a lot of people without education lately sneering at those who have it. As far as I am concerned I worked hard for my education.
Lefties do not want to give Dems credit for anything. They want to tar and feather them for the repeal of Glass-Steagall but no credit for passing Dodd-Frank. Its maddening. Check out the thread below, if you don’t believe me.
If Obama hadn’t sold us out on the public option, we’d have single payer and Glass-Steagall would never have been repealed!!1!
This is the new normal going forward, and reminiscent of “comfortably numb.”
When I ask “what will you do when you find you’ve been lied to?” I get blinks, like one of the “South Park” kids.
109.
AnonPhenom
well, it took 66 comments but we finally got the circular firing squad going again…
so, after wondering why the first white woman with a real shot at becoming president lost the white woman vote to a sexist predator who captured about the same percentage of the white woman vote as Bush, McCain and Romney did … I found this guys argument about “in-groups” compelling
110.
Cacti
Matt Taibbi has also jumped on the “Trust Vlad” brogressive train.
111.
germy
@zhena gogolia: Fun fact: Sonia Darrin (the young lady in the bookstore) in Bogart’s The Big Sleep is still living.
She had a small part in the film but I always thought she was great playing against Bogart.
@schrodingers_cat:
There’s definitely a group of leftists out there who believe that the only thing standing between us and the Socialist Worker’s Paradise are the squishy liberals who spend all their time compromising with the right. Once we drive them out of power, the true Glorious Worker’s Revolution can finally start.
Sonia Darrin as Agnes Lowzier, the salesgirl at A.J. Geiger bookstore
Dorothy Malone as the Acme Bookstore proprietress.
119.
Seth Owen
Like Cole, I’m a former Republican (although I don’t think I was ever full RWNJ).
I was a Republican for the longest time, frankly, because real “Lefties” can really be annoying, pretentious, judgmental, shortsighted jerks and purity ponies.
I’m a registered democrat, part-time FB debater and “liberal” now because what’s left of the center can’t stomach the cult that is the modern Republican Party/Movement Conservatism. The sober, fiscally responsible, grownup governing party of a generation ago is completely extinct. There are a handful of genuine principled conservative voices out there like McMullin, Larison, Frum and a few others, but they are no match for the cult.
The Left has always had the problem of acting with unity and focusing. It’s really funny how leftist protests feel the need to acknowledge every last tiny fringe group and their ‘concerns’ instead of focusing on clear, achievable goals. Every compromise is viewed as ‘selling out’ instead of a success. The foundering of the Occupy movement was due in part to this habit. The destructive aspects of the Bernie movement likewise.
I’m willing to put up with this because I have no choice. We will need a full-court press to stop Trump. But just because I’m opposed to Trump, don’t think I’m buying every aspect of the Left’s agenda. The case still needs to be made with evidence. The Left isn’t 100% right, either.
The tragedy of the last generation is that the moderate center hasn’t held. If we can’t find a way to get that back, we are going to have recurring crisis.
I see! Perhaps I could use them to watch the television device without annoying our neighbors on the adjacent homestead…
124.
ThresherK (tablet)
@Roger Moore: I am amused at that cadre’s love of FDR while 1) blithely thinking SocSec and other Del-made policies that made the middle class–that made most of them middle-class–fall into vHillary and Trump are the same” territory, and 2) ignoring the deals with racists (Dems,then) FDR had to make, even with his popularity and Congressional majorities in hand, to get passed and enacted what he did.
They’ve retconned that into super-pure paradisium, and anything Bill Clinton or Obama did which failed their imaginary standard is cause to abandon.
As one of those squishy liberals I am open to hearing an argument about Democrats doing themselves a disservice by being so circumspect about power and what power actually means when it comes to our politics, specifically when it comes to an allocation of resources, in a low growth era. I think the Democrats implicit argument of “we’re here to help everyone”, has run it’s course as an electoral strategy. I think we have to become much more honest, even cruder about what power actually means, and who actually wins and who loses with the competing agendas.
I have no problem believing that Vladimir Putin tried to influence the American election. He’s gangster-spook-scum of the lowest order and capable of anything. And Donald Trump, too, was swine enough during the campaign to publicly hope the Russians would disclose Hillary Clinton’s emails. So a lot of this is very believable.
He casts some skeptical questions on how far some media will go with no further evidence. I don’t have a problem with asking for more evidence. The analogies to WMD seem far fetched, IMO, as we’re not being ramped up to a hard sell for anything I am aware of.
The article reads like the musings of an asshole, which he is, but I did not take away a “trust Vlad” nugget from any of it.
The tragedy of the last generation is that the moderate center hasn’t held. If we can’t find a way to get that back, we are going to have recurring crisis.
Kind of off-topic, but I just read that Anthony Bourdain, “another East Coast elitist liberal”, joined the parade of people who “slammed his fellow liberals for not understanding WWC people”, or something like that. I’ve had it with this crap.
Seriously, where the fuck are all those East Coast Cultural Elitist Liberals who allegedly “don’t understand WWC people?” Because it seems like every East Coast Cultural Elitist Liberal that pops up is engaged not in dissing the WWC, but in dissing his own class for supposedly dissing the WWC.
It’s like how the fucking meme about how “the mainstream media is horribly liberally biased!” … is parroted by every goddamn pundit in the mainstream media. Or how most of the politicians in Washington are falling all over themselves to complain about how Washington politicians are big government tax-and-spend elites. And nobody ever notices how inherently ludicrous that is.
What I’m calling bullshit on are the never-ending articles about how terrible liberals are to WWC people, without any acknowledgement that WWC people are equally terrible to liberals!
That’s only part of the bullshit. The other parts of it are 1) the uncritically repeated equation of Trump voters with WWC, despite the fact that it’s dubious at best, and its flip side, 2) the repeated drumbeat equation of “liberal” and “coastal” with “elites,” which has now landed us in the surreal universe where fully half the population (using this election as a benchmark, in fact, a few million more than half the population) is painted as some sort of disconnected elite, because it had the appalling poor taste to grow up in a household that wasn’t white and Appalachian.
130.
Villago Delenda Est
@ThresherK (tablet): They only absorbed the popular history of FDR, not all the compromises he had to make (like excluding household staff from Social Security) to get his programs past the racist scum of the South.
I really believe that Vlad funded most of the Vulgar Talking Jam’s campaign. Since he won’t release his financial information or tax returns, what else can we think based on what has happened. Does anyone else suspect this?
134.
Suzanne
@Chris: It is also appalling that we continue to give great cultural and electoral power to these shitty rural and southern white communities. I happened to agree with Kevin Williamson’s hatefest in National Review or whatever it was this summer.
Election 2016: the primal scream of white trash morons.
There are certainly asshole liberals, but that’s true with every group. I see no reason we alone have to accept collective responsibility for the worst of us.
The exhausting thing is being tainted with the same brush as the assholes even though we do call them out, while conservatives are assumed to be pure and innocent despite the fact that they do actively encourage theirs.
When a bunch of stereotypical San Francisco hippie douchebags start embracing dangerous and antifactual nonsense about vaccines being a global conspiracy, liberals call them out on it. When a bunch of stereotypical white racist assholes start promoting similarly antifactual and dangerous conspiracies about Obama being a foreign-born Muslim who’s plotting to destroy America, conservatives… put them in the White House.
I think the tough, transactional politics Obama had to engage in against an obstructionist Republican party to achieve progressive policy goals will be treated kindly by future lefties and historians just like we treat FDR kindly.
In fact the only scenario where Obama isn’t treated kindly by history is if the Republican party is truly as radical and illiberal as many people believe and this ends in some kind of violent conflagration. In that scenario Obama not ringing the alarms when he should have known better then anyone how traitorous and fascist the current Republican party is will be treated as a betrayal and weakness in the face of people that made a mockery of long standing American principles.
To that end, that’s why I’m fascinated to hear Obama’s farewell address because I’m sure there’s a part of him that wants to hedge against that very scenario by calling out the Republican Party for what it is now and the dark road it’s currently going down. He does not want to be remembered as more James Buchanan then Abraham Lincoln by historians.
137.
Tom Q
@ThresherK (tablet): There’s huge historic irony to this pure-lefty evocation of FDR as what Dems should stand for/have abandoned. FDR DID have a coalition that united the working class against the bosses, but it was at the cost of many social issues, civil rights being among them. Starting in the late 40s, but especially in the 60s, a segment of the party — largely coastal elites, as it happens — demanded the party “show leadership” by taking on those divisive issues: civil rights, anti-military, eventually gender and sexuality rights. Advocating for such issues undercut/eventually destroyed the FDR coalition, and made the Nixon/Reagan years possible/inevitable. But it did create a new world, one which has slowly gained acceptance, to the point it had a nearly 3 million vote lead in this election, after two elected terms for a black man.
But it was at this point that a cadre of lefties — some literally the same people who rose against the party establishment in the 60s, and certainly their spiritual descendants — declared themselves unwilling to stand with the party’s candidate because she was (in their view) insufficiently devoted to the economic issues of the Roosevelt coalition. The very coalition they were perfectly willing to destroy 50 years ago in the name of deeper values.
If I were a different kind of fiction writer, I would write a novel about an idealistic young techno-libertarian being persecuted by the government, who discovers too late that the government has, in fact, been telling him the truth the whole time and he really did sell his country out to a foreign power. If you were an honorable person who found themselves in that position but realized you would get harsh treatment no matter which way you turned, what choice would you make?
Amen to all that. I certainly don’t hold working class whites in contempt. That’s the people I came from. And I remember them valuing an education and being proud that I went to college — an opportunity they didn’t have.
I don’t hold working-class whites in contempt. I hold conservatives in contempt. Their social class, wealth, level of education, religion, race, or the part of the country they live in has nothing to do with it. I hold New York tenth-generation WASP zillionnaires that the media pretends are “moderate” in exactly the same contempt in which I hold the stereotyped Appalachian hick with his NRA bumper stickers.
Conservatives refuse to understand that, but really, that’s because they judge people on metrics like “white” and “working class,” and don’t have the basic imagination or empathy to realize that other people might not.
I agree on the electoral side (that rural districts shouldn’t be artificially inflated by institutions like the Senate or the Electoral College) and the cultural side (that the Andy Griffith Show shouldn’t still be our default picture of Normal America when it wasn’t even that when it aired fifty years ago) not being inflated.
I can’t really agree with the National Review’s assessment. It was just your basic NR article about inner-city blacks, nonwhite immigrants, labor union members, or other working-class to poor demographics, that just happened to have been applied to yet another demographic.
141.
Manyakitty
@Seth Owen: All that. (Okay, not formerly Republican, but otherwise…)
142.
Manyakitty
@Mnemosyne: Sounds like a plot for William Gibson.
@Mnemosyne: @Manyakitty: Swartz downloaded a bunch of articles from JSTOR. It’s not something you throw the book at somebody for, no matter how many people at RT they’d been chatting with. He was hardly an incipient Snowden.
144.
Manyakitty
@Major Major Major Major: Oh, right. I don’t know about Swartz in detail, but the aggressive prosecution seemed disproportionate to the crimes.
@Manyakitty: the general consensus in my circles at least is that he was a casualty in the ongoing war between “copyright holders” and “what the internet is.”
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maryQ
Putin didn’t force her to use a private email server. Or something.
BGinCHI
Coal Country Voter: “Yeah, but look at that catamaran.”
Elizabelle
(thanks to Pale Scot for coming up with that in the morning thread, comment #15)
Us: Out to sea, ersatz vessel, harsh environment less supportive of human life. But her emails!
Bring back Gav the dog!
No One of Consequence
I just ran across this, and could not help but to think that this really encapsulates my thinking on where we are at now.
It works on so many levels as my failed polymath aspiring generalist mind can conceive.
Just brilliant, imho.
Ze dread.
It iz exzistentionaliste.
Ent it haz arrivedt vis much veight zis day…
Anyone else feel like we are living in a movie? One of those where the whole project began under great auspices and portent, only to go off the rails somewhere in the second act, the executive producer absconded with the budget, the talent hit the silks, and the grips and editors are left with the cutting room floor leavings to finish the godsforsaken thing off — and the whole audience awaits with deep foreboding about what comes next in Act 3?
Like the Movie cannot be Stopped, but rather it must be ENDURED?
or is it just me?
Peace all, and strength to face what comes,
– NOoC
Hungry Joe
@BGinCHI: Actually, it’s a trimaran.
Bad movie. Cool boat.
ArchTeryx
@Hungry Joe: Boat was probably the most awesome thing IN the movie. It actually had more acting breadth and a less wooden feel then Kevin Costner.
Villago Delenda Est
@Elizabelle: The assholes at the NYT need to be reminded what happened to Julius Streicher.
hovercraft
@Elizabelle:
Exhibit A, this is who is writing for the Vichy Times as a “straight reporter.”
NYT Reporter: Give Trump ‘Credit’ For His ‘Refreshing’ Use Of Twitter
Amy Chozick needs a reality check.
hovercraft
@Hungry Joe:
Terrible movie.
Emerald
@Villago Delenda Est:
This.
There will be History, someday. (Um, I think . . .)
Elizabelle
@Hungry Joe: Yeah. All the waves lapping put me to sleep in the theatre. Never finished that movie.
TrumpWorld. We all have bad hair now.
Every day is a bad hair day.
Whatever.
laura
@Hungry Joe: that urchin’s hair is a crime against humanity. Enduring any remembrance of that movie does nothing to gird my loins for the days to come.
Bring back Gav the dog. Or Steve. Stat!
burnspbesq
Strange year. All the celeb deaths. Leicester City. Trump. Carnegie Deli closes. The Fucking Cubs. And to top it all off, Beats releases a set of decent-sounding headphones.
Elizabelle
@No One of Consequence: Hmmm. The good thing is, it clobbers him on the way down. But still….
hovercraft
@Elizabelle:
Exhibit A: NYT Reporter: Give Trump ‘Credit’ For His ‘Refreshing’ Use Of Twitter. That’s from Amy Chozick, a so called “straight news reporter”.
hovercraft
@No One of Consequence:
Great cartoon, frighteningly apropos.
MomSense
@maryQ:
Turns out it’s the only server he couldn’t hack.
Miss Bianca
@Hungry Joe:
“I’ll breathe for both of us”
“Yeah, but emails…”
Calming Influence
Hillary has been emailing Abdul Benghazi since before she shot Vince Foster in Reno, which is unconstitutional.
I read it on Facebook.
Iowa Old Lady
We’re packing to leave for Florida in a few hours to visit my SIL. I need to be warm for a while before the apocalypse.
RepubAnon
@BGinCHI: More Coal Country voter: “But my black lung treatments will still be covered – right? Right?”
Paul Ryan: “Sorry, Charlie – there just isn’t enough money in the budget to save your life and still be able to get massive tax cuts for the rich passed… But at least the liberals will be pissed off.”
Coal Country Voter: “Promise?
Soprano2
Kind of off-topic, but I just read that Anthony Bourdain, “another East Coast elitist liberal”, joined the parade of people who “slammed his fellow liberals for not understanding WWC people”, or something like that. I’ve had it with this crap. Why are only liberals supposed to reach out in understanding and love to the people who say they hate us and hold us in “utter contempt”, even though they like many of the things we stand for (for example Medicare, SS, health care for all, and a living wage). He says ‘privileged’ liberals have ‘utter contempt’ for working class people, and that’s why Trump won the election. I keep reading stories saying that all those elite liberals say that WWC people are “trash” and “stupid” and “idiots”, but the only place I’ve actually ever seen anyone say that is in the critiques written by conservatives about liberals! (I have read many articles saying “How could anyone vote for Trump?” but that’s not the same as calling someone an idiot.) Why is it OK for WWC people to hold me in utter contempt, calling me all kinds of horrible names and denigrating everything I stand for and believe in, yet I’m supposed to nod my head, smile, and say “I respect your beliefs” to people who support those who think it’s OK to say President Obama isn’t a citizen of the U.S., who say he’s a Muslim as if the word “Muslim” is the worst possible insult, who compare our First Family to animals, and who compare people like me to the worst of the worst. People on the right say they don’t like PC, but the truth is that they only dislike “PC” when it keeps them from saying whatever awful, insulting thing about anyone they don’t like comes into their heads. They want me to acknowledge that not all people who voted for Trump are like that, yet they paint with a broad brush when they talk about me! They want to act all offended when someone says “Happy Holidays” to them, all while telling you with scorn and contempt how easily offended liberals are!!!!!
I hate to tell Trump voters this, but when you voted for him you tacitly said that racism, sexism, xenophobia and religious bigotry are A-OK with you. Whether or not you are racist, sexist, xenophobic or religiously bigoted is certainly relevant to you personally, but your vote endorsed all of those things, because the man you voted for expressed sentiments and ideas that embrace all of those concepts, and you knew it – you certainly couldn’t get away from hearing about it. You voted for a man who is openly supported by the KKK, neo-Nazis, and other white supremacists!! And not only did they embrace him, but your candidate only indifferently repudiated any of them!! How can I openly embrace and empathize with people who are willing to accept such things because they’re scared and upset that the U.S. isn’t as white as it used to be? I actually heard an interview on NPR right after the election where a black Clinton voter told a white female Trump voter than when Trump said “Make America Great Again” he heard “Make America White Again”, and the Trump voter said she had never thought of it that way before! Lady, I thought of that literally the second I heard that slogan – how could you not?
I guess that’s a lot of words to ask why it is that liberals are always supposed to be the bigger people. I’m tired of it, that’s one reason we lose battles; we reach out our hand to try to understand, and the other side cuts it off and laughs about it, and then gets others to criticize us for not reaching out to them.
SiubhanDuinne
@burnspbesq:
Wha- … WHAT?!?!?
ETA: Just googled. OMG, closing at midnight tonight. That truly makes me sad. I ate a lot of lunches there in the day.
Mnemosyne
@Soprano2:
I didn’t think the WWC were idiots or hold them in contempt until they voted en masse for Trump. Once they shot themselves in the foot like that, was I supposed to pretend they weren’t fucking idiots just to spare their tender fee-fees?
I think what’s going on is that the WWC is slowly waking up to the fact that they fucked the whole country over by voting for Trump, but they’re still trying to dodge their responsibility.
Major Major Major Major
@Soprano2: i feel like the folks writing these “liberals hate the ‘white working class'” articles (or in general having these opinions) have their entire experience of liberals shaped by only knowing and/or being asshole rich people from New York.
JordanRules
@burnspbesq:
Really?
zhena gogolia
@No One of Consequence:
Yes, that cartoon is excellent.
goblue72
@Soprano2: Can’t win without white voters. So yeah, when you lose and reason you lose is a core part of your constituency – white voters without college degrees – abandons you en masse – then yes, you have to get off your high horse and fix it.
Largest single voting block for Obama in 2012 – whites without a college degree (39% of Obama voters, 10 points larger than African-Americans)
Its not about your fee-fees. Its about winning. Which Democrats are horribly not doing, across the entire board. (White House, Congress, Governorships, state legislatures, county dogcatcher…)
hovercraft
@SiubhanDuinne:
New York City’s Iconic Carnegie Deli Closes at Midnight
Gin & Tonic
@SiubhanDuinne: Katz’s is, mercifully, still open (although whatever was next door was demolished recently.) Head downtown.
NoraLenderbee
@No One of Consequence:
I feel like I’m living in Ray Bradbury’s story “A Sound of Thunder.”
Thanks you, BJers, for being here.
goblue72
Meanwhile, John Cole’s buddy, Soviet mole Glenn Greenwald, is questioning Russian hacking claims and planting wet kisses on Breitbart –
http://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2016/12/sad-2
zhena gogolia
@Major Major Major Major:
Yup, that about sums it up.
Baud
@Soprano2: I thought Bourdain was a good guy.
Cacti
@Calming Influence:
You win.
End of thread.
zhena gogolia
@Soprano2:
I agree with everything you said.
TriassicSands
@Mnemosyne:
I don’t know. I think we’re still many months away from that, if it ever happens. For many, if not most Trump voters, I sincerely doubt the realization of what a horrendous mistake they made will ever occur to them. These are not thoughtful people, nor are they people given to taking responsibility for their stupidity. In fact, their stupidity is the real problem; it allowed them to vote for a sociopathic con artist, while simultaneously believing that he won’t do what he repeatedly promised to do (for example, repeal Obamacare). I mean, six years after the ACA passed and 2 years after it was fully implemented, they still don’t understand why a mandate is necessary. And what percentage of them think that China is almost solely responsible for the loss of American jobs versus those who understand the dominant role that automation has played?
ThresherK (tablet)
@SiubhanDuinne: I’ve been there a couple times.
I also one ate at the HoJo’s in Times Square, when I was 18. That was a very narrow time window for someone my age it turns out. I’m amazed a tourist like me can now tell people “I remember famous place X” in Manhattan.
SFBayAreaGal
OT, History channel as a series running right now called America: Fact vs. Fiction.
burnspbesq
@JordanRules:
Yeah. For what they are (Bluetooth in-ears) and what they cost ($200), the PowerBeats 3 are pretty damn good. The flattest Beats I’ve ever heard, with good transient response. Soundstage isn’t especially wide or especially deep, but it’s stable and pretty accurate. Decent as a phone headset. Battery life is alleged to be 12 hours, and I’m at seven and still going strong.
Not trading them for my Nobles, but for non-serious listening at the gym and the office, they’re absolutely fine.
janeform
@Gin & Tonic: Another option: 2nd Avenue Deli in midtown and the upper east side.
burnspbesq
@janeform:
The best option: Langer’s, at 7th and Alvarado in LA.
Cacti
@goblue72:
An astute commenter pointed out that GG’s praise of Breitbart for “giving a voice to people who are otherwise excluded” is equally applicable to Stormfront, Der Sturmer, or pretty much any crank or hate site on the internet.
Gretchen
New York Times falling again: http://washingtonmonthly.com/2016/12/30/more-fake-news-about-va-hospitals/
Gretchen
New York Times taking Fox New’s word about wait times in the VA system and need for “reform”.
Another Scott
@Major Major Major Major: I haven’t read the article, but looking at Bourdain’s Twitter feed, and seeing a few of his shows, I don’t get the impression that he’s a kook who lives in an ivory tower.
FWIW.
Cheers,
Scott.
Baud
@Gretchen: The NYT is garbage.
Soprano2
@Another Scott:
The article was on Yahoo, which is where I saw it. It’s yet another installment in the series “famous liberals tell other liberals how terrible they are”.
Izabela
Hello, I’m a longtime mostly lurker here for about 10 years, have only posted infrequently. And I will probably continue to be someone who mostly lurks, although I might be inclined to post in threads concerning the upcoming administration’s likely pushback against the advances that have been made for transgender rights and acceptance by the Obama administration.
Over the past few months, I’ve done the coming out process with my immediate family and I’m extremely lucky that they’ve all being accepting and supportive.I hope to start hormone therapy soon in this coming year.
Sometimes I get a great feeling of dread in my stomach about what might happen in the next few years. But I also try to hope that places like this site and other progressive voices will be able to hold off the worst that could happen if people don’t speak and just roll over.
gene108
@goblue72:
I believe LBJ, in 1964, was the last Democrat to win a majority of white votes.
For whatever reason, white folks have been flocking to the Republican Party for the last 52 years.
But somehow Democrats have still won Presidential elections, since then.
Go figure.
m.j.
Yes. I was able to listen to On Point today and I had to keep turning down the volume to shout at the radio.
They simply refuse to acknowledge they gave Trump vastly more favorable coverage. They also can’t acknowledge that they are still doing it by trying to pretend that he is not in over his head even when they have to edit his gibberish.
Mike in NC
Kevin Costner’s body of work has largely been a huge steaming pile…
mai naem mobile
Ryan Seacrest got stuck in the elevator this morning at GMA where he was going to promo the 2017 NYE celebration. I think thats a not a good sign .
Soprano2
@goblue72:
What I’m calling bullshit on are the never-ending articles about how terrible liberals are to WWC people, without any acknowledgement that WWC people are equally terrible to liberals! I’m tired of the idea that WWC people are all virtuous and moral and totally right, while the rest of us are clueless and suck and should just shut up because Trump won the EC even though our candidate got 2.8+ million more votes overall than he did. I know we can’t win without white voters (I am one, dammit!), but I also think there is no way anyone who believes Obama is a Muslim from Kenya is a voter we can ever win over. What we need to do is figure out why people who voted for Obama also voted for Trump, and work on getting those voters back, while also working to help everyone be able to vote in the face of more and more onerous voter ID laws.
Calming Influence
@burnspbesq, et al: Yeah, well I miss the Automat, but you won’t hear me whining about it.
Now what are these “head phone” devices you speak of?
Gin & Tonic
@janeform: I’m so old I remember when the 2nd Avenue Deli was located on 2nd Avenue.
germy
@Another Scott:
gene108
@Soprano2:
Yeah, but that’s only because she ran up the score in CA.
In Real America, Trump crushed her in the popular vote.
/right-wing talking point
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Another Scott: I think he’s good people, but he’s not known for thinking and talking about politics. He just happened to say to a right-leaning writer– that interview’s from Reason, isn’t it?– the things a rightie wants to get a “celebrity” to say. In the same interview Bourdain bashes Bill Maher for being smug and insular, and on the last RTWBM I saw, Maher was finger-wagging about how he warned “liberals” about being to smug and “PC”.
schrodingers_cat
@Another Scott: You don’t have to live in an ivory tower to be a kook.
Baud
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: There are certainly asshole liberals, but that’s true with every group. I see no reason we alone have to accept collective responsibility for the worst of us.
Yastreblyansky
@maryQ: It would have made sense if she saw it that way, given that the Pentagon, State Department, DNC, DCCC and gods know who else were all hacked and the Clinton server wasn’t.
Aleta
@Gin & Tonic: Was it really so long ago? I remember going there after meetings at St. Marks.
Mike in DC
@gene108:
We really don’t have to increase our share of the white vote that dramatically. If we get 44 or 45 percent, we’re in landslide territory. 40 percent probably would have been enough for a Clinton win.
BGinCHI
@RepubAnon: Exactly.
They thought it was a football game instead of an election.
“What are ‘consequences’?”
janeform
@Gin & Tonic: Me too.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Yastreblyansky: Reading through twitter, the id of the semi-informed, it’s clear that a whole lot of people think the Russians hacked the Clintons’ personal server and found evidence of illegal activity. One die-hard Wilmer supporter was ranting about how the Clinton Foundation paid for Chelsea’s three million dollar wedding. What’s your source? -asked some other Egg -The emails! tweet-shrieked the Wilmer Egg
Mnemosyne
I don’t read our gracious bloghost’s Twitter feed very often (because it doesn’t show on my iPad) but I think this retweet from yesterday is on point:
Gin & Tonic
@Aleta: 10-ish years?
Steve in the ATL
Was the Carnegie Deli ever anything more than an overpriced tourist trap? Obviously, I never lived in NYC, but I did have an overpriced meal there as a tourist.
Mnemosyne
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
An occasional old-time lefty troll popped up in one of the threads below to tell us all that Obama and Hillary were preparing for war against Russia, so Russia only acted out of self-defense when they interfered to get Trump elected. I did not feel like engaging trolls today since I already have a lingering migraine, but I guarantee you his sources include Russia Today and other Russian propaganda outfits that target the left to make them feel “smart.”
schrodingers_cat
@Mnemosyne: I think that’s where my cray cray friend gets her info too.
Mnemosyne
Also, too, in case people don’t know, we are sometimes using the code word “Wilmer” to refer to Hillary’s erstwhile primary opponent not as a slam on him, but to prevent the thread-hijacking trolls with Google alerts set to detect his name from descending on us to defend the honor of their personal Jesus.
debbie
@SiubhanDuinne:
Me too, it was one of my boss’s favorite places. The matzoh balls were almost as big as the sandwiches!
burnspbesq
@Calming Influence:
A way for your spouse, SO, or offspring to listen to the crappy music he/she/they inexplicably love(s), without disturbing you while you’re listening to the great music you prefer.
Mnemosyne
@schrodingers_cat:
I saw your note about the Uniqlo tights but I can’t remember if I had a chance to reply since I went to the zoo yesterday. I may try to buy a pair or two once the post-Christmas mall crowds die down a bit and see if they work in my chilly office. I know 68 degrees doesn’t sound that cold, but it is when you’re sitting at a desk all day!
Corner Stone
Parachuting in here to ask if anyone has mentioned Trump’s tweet about how smart Putin is for delaying action vs our expulsions?
schrodingers_cat
@Mnemosyne: You can get the ultra warm and pair them with boots and boot socks.
Renie
@Soprano2: I was in a local deli that had FauxNews on the tv. The blonde ‘reporter’ was saying how the democrats abandoned the WWC and now they were abandoning the Jewish voters (this was the day of Kerry’s speech). It was annoying to hear and realized that it is the conservatives who put this line of thinking out there and then everyone else joins in.
Why is there no one on the democratic side who speaks out against all this propaganda? I feel like no one is doing anything on our behalf. I’m concerned most of the dems in Congress will roll over cuz they are out-numbered. Every day there is more and more idiots spewing out GOP talking points but no one on our side.
Corner Stone
This is fucking embarrassing. Does he think he’s buttering up a Prom Queen or some shit? WTF is going on?
burnspbesq
@Corner Stone:
Only you so far. And fuck you for ruining what’s left of my morning.
SFBayAreaGal
@Gretchen: God damn it, I’m a veteran and I have had no problems getting VA medical services from the Palo Alto or San Francisco VA.
germy
@Gin & Tonic: I remember reading about a legendary deli in NYC… Hanson’s. All the old comedians met there: Lenny Bruce, Rodney Dangerfield, Will Jordan… that generation. Jerry Lewis had sex in a phone booth standing up, according to legend. The big stars would hang out, and the young hopefuls would stand around hoping to get noticed. I don’t know if Hanson’s still exists, or it it was torn down (like so many old places in NYC) for something unaffordable.
Starfish
@germy: He said something to the effect that it is complete garbage for people who are hiring illegal immigrants in their kitchens to be so vocal about deporting them.
Archon
@Mnemosyne:
I understand a healthy skepticism of our politicians but I find it positively surreal that alot of people on the left are taking the word of Donald Trump and Putin over President Obama and pretty much the unanimous opinion of our intelligence services.
I get why Trump and the right want to ignore and deny that fact but I’m genuinely at a loss to why so called lefties in some quarters would deny it.
Corner Stone
@burnspbesq: Ahhhh, that’s better.
debbie
@Corner Stone:
Putin as Compassionate Conservative? Come, little American children, come play with me.
Another Scott
@Mnemosyne: There’s still almost nothing about the rallies on the January 15 “Day of Action” rallies that Warren Gunnels is supposed to be organizing… :-/
Cheers,
Scott.
germy
Here’s a great blog “Jeremiah’s Vanishing New York”
He goes into detail about the Carnegie Deli closing:
http://vanishingnewyork.blogspot.com
It’s a heartbreaking blog, actually. There’s one thread on the old Ukrainian store that closed. It’d been open for decades and decades (a hundred years??), selling sheet music and stuff like that.
trollhattan
@germy:
His Rome episode went there, making a direct comparison of Trump and Mussolini. I was gobsmacked at the forcefulness and open contempt.
Corner Stone
@Archon:
“alot of people” is doing a lot of work there.
Mnemosyne
@Archon:
Frankly, a lot of them have been propagandized by the Russians and don’t realize it. Russia Today made a specific point of hiring a lot of respected lefty journalists and outlets (like Ed Schultz and Democracy Now) to cover up what they were doing. Russia Today is owned by the Russian government, and not in the way that, say, the BBC is.
So, basically, there’s a fuckton of Russian propaganda circulating through the left and those people refuse to listen when you tell them that they’re being fed Russian propaganda.
Starfish
@Starfish:
Roger Moore
@Corner Stone:
I think the main goal is to give a backhanded insult to Obama, but buttering up Putin is a nice side benefit. It’s pathetic that the PEOTUS is such a knob polisher.
Starfish
@Mnemosyne: Yes! I have someone who is leftish and keeps sending me Glenn Greenwald articles.
Roger Moore
@Archon:
They see Hillary’s loss as an opportunity for advancing their personal goals within the party, e.g. giving up on “identity politics” in favor of trying to win back the WWC. A story that suggests Hillary was done in by foreign interference rather than her own strategic mistakes upsets their goal of correcting those mistakes.
zhena gogolia
@BGinCHI:
I am still astonished by the woman who was screaming at me about Benghazi and e-mails before the election and wouldn’t listen to what I had to say. I’ve seen her twice since the election and she says not a word about it — it’s as if it didn’t happen. She’s completely oblivious to what’s going down.
Corner Stone
@Roger Moore: I don’t think Trump is much on the subtlety with insults for Obama.
But with this nut job I guess anything is possible. But does he have to hold up his well polished knee pads so high all the time. Sheesh.
zhena gogolia
@Mnemosyne:
I thought I was going crazy from watching the MF again for the 1000th time the other night.
God, Bogart’s good.
Baud
@Archon: Young white lefties are still white.
schrodingers_cat
@Roger Moore: Lefties do not want to give Dems credit for anything. They want to tar and feather them for the repeal of Glass-Steagall but no credit for passing Dodd-Frank. Its maddening. Check out the thread below, if you don’t believe me.
schrodingers_cat
@Baud: Actually two younger Bernie supporters ( 30s and 20s) I know reluctantly moved to HRC column but the proud anti-Hillz Bernie supporters, for whom voting for the she-devil was against their deeply held principles were old and female. So not just bros.
Another Scott
@Corner Stone: Don’t read the comments on that Tweet (especially replies to Charles Johnson). Too many stupid bots and/or Trolls from Olgino and/or people who can’t think straight…
Cheers,
Scott.
(“And you thought USENET was bad…”)
D58826
No words other than maybe treason or sedition? –
http://www.thedailybeast.com/cheats/2016/12/30/trump-praises-smart-putin.html?via=desktop&source=copyurl
fuckwit
@Mnemosyne: RT had also been grooming Aaron Swarz, which is why the US gummint threw the book at him so hard and drove him to suicide.
Seth Owen
@Soprano2: Amen to all that. I certainly don’t hold working class whites in contempt. That’s the people I came from. And I remember them valuing an education and being proud that I went to college — an opportunity they didn’t have.
I have heard a lot of people without education lately sneering at those who have it. As far as I am concerned I worked hard for my education.
Cacti
@schrodingers_cat:
If Obama hadn’t sold us out on the public option, we’d have single payer and Glass-Steagall would never have been repealed!!1!
trollhattan
@zhena gogolia:
This is the new normal going forward, and reminiscent of “comfortably numb.”
When I ask “what will you do when you find you’ve been lied to?” I get blinks, like one of the “South Park” kids.
AnonPhenom
well, it took 66 comments but we finally got the circular firing squad going again…
so, after wondering why the first white woman with a real shot at becoming president lost the white woman vote to a sexist predator who captured about the same percentage of the white woman vote as Bush, McCain and Romney did … I found this guys argument about “in-groups” compelling
Cacti
Matt Taibbi has also jumped on the “Trust Vlad” brogressive train.
germy
@zhena gogolia: Fun fact: Sonia Darrin (the young lady in the bookstore) in Bogart’s The Big Sleep is still living.
She had a small part in the film but I always thought she was great playing against Bogart.
Roger Moore
@schrodingers_cat:
There’s definitely a group of leftists out there who believe that the only thing standing between us and the Socialist Worker’s Paradise are the squishy liberals who spend all their time compromising with the right. Once we drive them out of power, the true Glorious Worker’s Revolution can finally start.
zhena gogolia
@germy:
WHAT? That was Dorothy Malone!
Corner Stone
@fuckwit: When you say that, can you post attribution or link to something for us?
It’s kind of a harsh toss away with nothing else added.
Corner Stone
@Cacti: Link?
Renie
@schrodingers_cat: how does Dodd Frank negate G-S? It’s not stopping the b.s. Wall St. is still doing.
Cacti
@Corner Stone:
Trust Vlad because Iraq WMD.
germy
@zhena gogolia:
Dorothy Malone as the Acme Bookstore proprietress.
Seth Owen
Like Cole, I’m a former Republican (although I don’t think I was ever full RWNJ).
I was a Republican for the longest time, frankly, because real “Lefties” can really be annoying, pretentious, judgmental, shortsighted jerks and purity ponies.
I’m a registered democrat, part-time FB debater and “liberal” now because what’s left of the center can’t stomach the cult that is the modern Republican Party/Movement Conservatism. The sober, fiscally responsible, grownup governing party of a generation ago is completely extinct. There are a handful of genuine principled conservative voices out there like McMullin, Larison, Frum and a few others, but they are no match for the cult.
The Left has always had the problem of acting with unity and focusing. It’s really funny how leftist protests feel the need to acknowledge every last tiny fringe group and their ‘concerns’ instead of focusing on clear, achievable goals. Every compromise is viewed as ‘selling out’ instead of a success. The foundering of the Occupy movement was due in part to this habit. The destructive aspects of the Bernie movement likewise.
I’m willing to put up with this because I have no choice. We will need a full-court press to stop Trump. But just because I’m opposed to Trump, don’t think I’m buying every aspect of the Left’s agenda. The case still needs to be made with evidence. The Left isn’t 100% right, either.
The tragedy of the last generation is that the moderate center hasn’t held. If we can’t find a way to get that back, we are going to have recurring crisis.
Baud
@schrodingers_cat: There’s also the left’s share of the 27%.
gene108
@Archon:
There’s a lot of distrust, to put it mildly, of the Deep State – intelligence, security, etc. – by the Left.
If the CIA says it’s true, it must be a lie. If DHS says it’s a risk to our security, it must be a way to kick money back to corporations.
Villago Delenda Est
@Cacti: Taibbi will look really good with a shaved head.
Collaborators WILL be dealt with, in the traditional fashion.
Calming Influence
@burnspbesq:
I see! Perhaps I could use them to watch the television device without annoying our neighbors on the adjacent homestead…
ThresherK (tablet)
@Roger Moore: I am amused at that cadre’s love of FDR while 1) blithely thinking SocSec and other Del-made policies that made the middle class–that made most of them middle-class–fall into vHillary and Trump are the same” territory, and 2) ignoring the deals with racists (Dems,then) FDR had to make, even with his popularity and Congressional majorities in hand, to get passed and enacted what he did.
They’ve retconned that into super-pure paradisium, and anything Bill Clinton or Obama did which failed their imaginary standard is cause to abandon.
Archon
@Roger Moore:
As one of those squishy liberals I am open to hearing an argument about Democrats doing themselves a disservice by being so circumspect about power and what power actually means when it comes to our politics, specifically when it comes to an allocation of resources, in a low growth era. I think the Democrats implicit argument of “we’re here to help everyone”, has run it’s course as an electoral strategy. I think we have to become much more honest, even cruder about what power actually means, and who actually wins and who loses with the competing agendas.
Corner Stone
@Cacti: Not quite a “trust Vlad” argument.
He casts some skeptical questions on how far some media will go with no further evidence. I don’t have a problem with asking for more evidence. The analogies to WMD seem far fetched, IMO, as we’re not being ramped up to a hard sell for anything I am aware of.
The article reads like the musings of an asshole, which he is, but I did not take away a “trust Vlad” nugget from any of it.
Scotian
@Seth Owen:
Chris
@Soprano2:
Seriously, where the fuck are all those East Coast Cultural Elitist Liberals who allegedly “don’t understand WWC people?” Because it seems like every East Coast Cultural Elitist Liberal that pops up is engaged not in dissing the WWC, but in dissing his own class for supposedly dissing the WWC.
It’s like how the fucking meme about how “the mainstream media is horribly liberally biased!” … is parroted by every goddamn pundit in the mainstream media. Or how most of the politicians in Washington are falling all over themselves to complain about how Washington politicians are big government tax-and-spend elites. And nobody ever notices how inherently ludicrous that is.
Chris
@Soprano2:
That’s only part of the bullshit. The other parts of it are 1) the uncritically repeated equation of Trump voters with WWC, despite the fact that it’s dubious at best, and its flip side, 2) the repeated drumbeat equation of “liberal” and “coastal” with “elites,” which has now landed us in the surreal universe where fully half the population (using this election as a benchmark, in fact, a few million more than half the population) is painted as some sort of disconnected elite, because it had the appalling poor taste to grow up in a household that wasn’t white and Appalachian.
Villago Delenda Est
@ThresherK (tablet): They only absorbed the popular history of FDR, not all the compromises he had to make (like excluding household staff from Social Security) to get his programs past the racist scum of the South.
burnspbesq
@Calming Influence:
Capital idea, old chap!
burnspbesq
@Villago Delenda Est:
The idea of Greenie and Taibbi as cellmates could brighten my outlook.
Katheeine
I really believe that Vlad funded most of the Vulgar Talking Jam’s campaign. Since he won’t release his financial information or tax returns, what else can we think based on what has happened. Does anyone else suspect this?
Suzanne
@Chris: It is also appalling that we continue to give great cultural and electoral power to these shitty rural and southern white communities. I happened to agree with Kevin Williamson’s hatefest in National Review or whatever it was this summer.
Election 2016: the primal scream of white trash morons.
Chris
@Baud:
The exhausting thing is being tainted with the same brush as the assholes even though we do call them out, while conservatives are assumed to be pure and innocent despite the fact that they do actively encourage theirs.
When a bunch of stereotypical San Francisco hippie douchebags start embracing dangerous and antifactual nonsense about vaccines being a global conspiracy, liberals call them out on it. When a bunch of stereotypical white racist assholes start promoting similarly antifactual and dangerous conspiracies about Obama being a foreign-born Muslim who’s plotting to destroy America, conservatives… put them in the White House.
Archon
@Villago Delenda Est:
I think the tough, transactional politics Obama had to engage in against an obstructionist Republican party to achieve progressive policy goals will be treated kindly by future lefties and historians just like we treat FDR kindly.
In fact the only scenario where Obama isn’t treated kindly by history is if the Republican party is truly as radical and illiberal as many people believe and this ends in some kind of violent conflagration. In that scenario Obama not ringing the alarms when he should have known better then anyone how traitorous and fascist the current Republican party is will be treated as a betrayal and weakness in the face of people that made a mockery of long standing American principles.
To that end, that’s why I’m fascinated to hear Obama’s farewell address because I’m sure there’s a part of him that wants to hedge against that very scenario by calling out the Republican Party for what it is now and the dark road it’s currently going down. He does not want to be remembered as more James Buchanan then Abraham Lincoln by historians.
Tom Q
@ThresherK (tablet): There’s huge historic irony to this pure-lefty evocation of FDR as what Dems should stand for/have abandoned. FDR DID have a coalition that united the working class against the bosses, but it was at the cost of many social issues, civil rights being among them. Starting in the late 40s, but especially in the 60s, a segment of the party — largely coastal elites, as it happens — demanded the party “show leadership” by taking on those divisive issues: civil rights, anti-military, eventually gender and sexuality rights. Advocating for such issues undercut/eventually destroyed the FDR coalition, and made the Nixon/Reagan years possible/inevitable. But it did create a new world, one which has slowly gained acceptance, to the point it had a nearly 3 million vote lead in this election, after two elected terms for a black man.
But it was at this point that a cadre of lefties — some literally the same people who rose against the party establishment in the 60s, and certainly their spiritual descendants — declared themselves unwilling to stand with the party’s candidate because she was (in their view) insufficiently devoted to the economic issues of the Roosevelt coalition. The very coalition they were perfectly willing to destroy 50 years ago in the name of deeper values.
As I say, irony.
Mnemosyne
@fuckwit:
If I were a different kind of fiction writer, I would write a novel about an idealistic young techno-libertarian being persecuted by the government, who discovers too late that the government has, in fact, been telling him the truth the whole time and he really did sell his country out to a foreign power. If you were an honorable person who found themselves in that position but realized you would get harsh treatment no matter which way you turned, what choice would you make?
Baud
@Chris: Agreed.
Chris
@Seth Owen:
I don’t hold working-class whites in contempt. I hold conservatives in contempt. Their social class, wealth, level of education, religion, race, or the part of the country they live in has nothing to do with it. I hold New York tenth-generation WASP zillionnaires that the media pretends are “moderate” in exactly the same contempt in which I hold the stereotyped Appalachian hick with his NRA bumper stickers.
Conservatives refuse to understand that, but really, that’s because they judge people on metrics like “white” and “working class,” and don’t have the basic imagination or empathy to realize that other people might not.
@Suzanne:
I agree on the electoral side (that rural districts shouldn’t be artificially inflated by institutions like the Senate or the Electoral College) and the cultural side (that the Andy Griffith Show shouldn’t still be our default picture of Normal America when it wasn’t even that when it aired fifty years ago) not being inflated.
I can’t really agree with the National Review’s assessment. It was just your basic NR article about inner-city blacks, nonwhite immigrants, labor union members, or other working-class to poor demographics, that just happened to have been applied to yet another demographic.
Manyakitty
@Seth Owen: All that. (Okay, not formerly Republican, but otherwise…)
Manyakitty
@Mnemosyne: Sounds like a plot for William Gibson.
Major Major Major Major
@Mnemosyne: @Manyakitty: Swartz downloaded a bunch of articles from JSTOR. It’s not something you throw the book at somebody for, no matter how many people at RT they’d been chatting with. He was hardly an incipient Snowden.
Manyakitty
@Major Major Major Major: Oh, right. I don’t know about Swartz in detail, but the aggressive prosecution seemed disproportionate to the crimes.
Major Major Major Major
@Manyakitty: the general consensus in my circles at least is that he was a casualty in the ongoing war between “copyright holders” and “what the internet is.”