"Do not ever let anyone make you feel like you don't matter, or like you don't have a place in our American story, because you do." pic.twitter.com/GNeyLvM3l0
— laura olin (@lauraolin) January 7, 2017
… but I have every reason to believe she’ll still be fighting for the best of American values. Per the Washington Post:
Michelle Obama began to cry as she delivered her final public remarks from the White House on Friday morning at an event celebrating school counselors. Her message, which was directed toward young people, was one of hope and inclusion.
“It is our fundamental belief in the power of hope that has allowed us to rise above the voices of doubt and division . . . that we have faced in our own lives and in the life of this country,” Obama said as her voice cracked. “Our hope that if we work hard and believe in ourselves then we can be whatever we dream regardless of the limitations that others would place on us.
“That’s the kind of hope that every single one of us, politicians, parents, preachers, need to be providing for our kids, because that is what moves this country forward — our hope for the future.”
The first lady, who campaigned energetically for Hillary Clinton, was clearly disappointed by the recent election results; her emphasis that “hope” is what makes the country move forward appears to be a repudiation of President-elect Donald Trump’s campaign slogan, asserting that he will “Make America great again.”
The school counselor awards ceremony, which Obama began hosting in the White House in 2015, is reflective of the first lady’s focus on young people and opening the White House to groups who typically aren’t invited to the historic mansion…
Obama said that she plans to continue encouraging young people to pursue higher education and that she has been building toward life after the White House, considering opportunities to continue her advocacy.
She leaves the White House as one of the nation’s most popular political figures, her approval ratings approaching 70 percent, and her final interviews have been punctuated with questions about her future. While she is looking forward to a private life, and has said she plans to take a warm-weather vacation following the inauguration, she has already begun constructing her post-White House team and is considering her next move. She is expected to write a memoir but has not announced any firm commitments…
May she enjoy her hard-earned vacation… and win all her future battles!
Baud
Thank you, Michelle.
debbie
Well, my hope is that Trump implodes rather quickly.
Aunt Kathy
I have either been crying or on the verge of tears since the election. The photo spread in the WaPo on the two of them today didn’t help any. gaaahhhh
BGinCHI
To the 30% who find Michelle Obama unfavorable:
Fuck You.
Kay (not the front-pager)
I happened to be listening to the last few minutes of the speech on the radio. Mrs. Obama ended her speech by saying, “I hope I made you proud.” I said to the radio, “Yes, Mrs. Obama, you made me proud. Every. Single. Day.” And then I must have gotten something in my eyes…
Mnemosyne
I don’t think Mrs. Obama enjoys politics, but I think she really enjoys public service and meeting people. I hope she’s able to continue the part of the work that she likes in the future and can leave behind the parts she doesn’t.
West of the Rockies (been a while)
I hope so, too, Debbie (comment 2)…
There’s reasons to imagine Clump’s tenure will be marked by arrogance, greed, dishonesty, incompetence, and constant verbal miscues. That’s not the stuff of success, solid approval ratings and re-election.
rikyrah
Barack Obama forever changed black America
Peniel E Joseph
The president justified the faith of generations who persisted in loving America – even when the nation refused to love us back
Black America’s conception of ourselves was forever changed by Barack Obama’s presidency. For African Americans, the first family helped to unlock the transformational potential that always existed in democracy’s beating heart, but which too often excluded black Americans. Today, that is no longer the case.
Barack and Michelle Obama changed how black folks thought of themselves and the wider nation they lived in. Obama’s attainment of the nation’s highest office illuminated the depth and breadth of black genius in American society, helping to inspire millions of young people to dream bigger dreams.
For black America, the euphoria of election day in 2008 did not elicit post-racial fantasies articulated by the mainstream press. Instead, the presence of the Obamas on the world stage confirmed deep-seated truths about black excellence, love and humanity that we’ve always taken for granted despite white denial of these very truths.
Barack and Michelle Obama, along with their intelligent and energetic daughters Sasha and Malia, set a new standard for American society, normalizing the once unthinkable prospect of having a black president and first family in the White House. Together, they broke powerful barriers installed by the nation’s brutal history of slavery, Jim Crow and institutional racism.
For eight extraordinary years, Obama and his poised, elegant and brilliant family occupied the domestic and world stage in a way that offered new models of excellence for millions of black children living in a society that continues to marginalize their hopes and dreams, accentuate their mistakes and errors, and place too little values on their lives or deaths.
One picture of Obama’s impact on black children remains especially poignant. A five-year-old African American boy visiting the White House asked to feel the president’s hair, as if to assure himself that the leader of the free world not only looked like him, but had similar hair as well. It’s one of the defining moments of Obama’s presidency. It illustrated how the very fact of having a black president unlocked new worlds of hope and possibility in millions of people – young and old –who never imagined that such a thing was possible.
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Michelle Obama revealed a remarkable ability for grace when under pressure, even when faced with hurtful myths that she hated America. She responded to racist assaults, character assassination by rightwing pundits and blatant lies by conspiracy theorists and alt-right fanatics with a now legendary poise. And Michelle’s defiant black beauty in the face of online trolls – who compared her to animals and used racial slurs against her – helped make her time as first lady both inspiring and instructive.
For millions of black girls and women, Michelle Obama became a role model both for her astonishing educational accomplishments and political achievements in the White House. Her public resilience in leading a charge to promote healthy eating across the nation, including providing nutritious foods for economically and racially segregated youth living in poverty, was illuminating – as was her willingness to speak truth to power at the Democratic national convention, where she acknowledged living in a house built by slaves. Moments like these cemented her soaring stature nationally and solidified the special place she holds within the hearts of black people everywhere.
SiubhanDuinne
It’s also a reinforcement of her husband’s oft-cited phrase (and the title of his second book) The Audacity of Hope. Me, I was always big on the hopey-changey stuff, and I haven’t changed my mind, although it’s been sorely tested in recent months.
Listened to FLOTUS’ speech on the radio yesterday and got all teary while driving. Watched it later at home and let the waterworks flow, full open tap. I hope the entire Obama family knows how very much we’re going to miss them, and how deeply we wish them well and want to be part of their next chapter.
E.
Honest to God, I would cut off my own arm with a saw if it meant she could be a Supreme Court Justice. For President, a hand.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
I forget who said on twitter last week, odds are the Democrats’ nominee in 2020 will more than likely campaign on returning decency and dignity to the White House.
Steeplejack
@Kay (not the front-pager):
Damn straight. I might have had my policy differences with Barack Obama over the years—he’s still a top-five president (at least), let’s get that straight!—but Michelle Obama has been impeccable in a thankless job, against mountainous tides of racism, sexism and general right-wing idiocy. Impeccable and transcendent. Best First Lady ever.
ETA: And don’t come at me with your Eleanor Rossevelt bullshit.
Corner Stone
@Steeplejack:
Eh. Meh.
Mnemosyne
@Steeplejack:
A lot of the Eleanor Roosevelt love comes because of her post-FLOTUS career. God willing, Mrs. Obama will be able to surpass her there as well.
Omnes Omnibus
@Steeplejack: Eleanor Roosevelt. She had more time to do good.
hitchhiker
Sob.
Steeplejack
@Corner Stone:
Obviously you’re still giddy on the fumes of the Texans’ win today.
donnah
Michelle was everything you could hope for in her role as First Lady, and she kept everything balanced for her girls and for her husband. I think she grew into the job as time passed, and probably her greatest concerns were always for Barack’s well-being and his safety, as well as providing as normal an environment as she could for her daughters.
But she was able to juggle her duties as First Lady with grace, dignity, humor, and panache. She always comes across as friendly, patient, and wise. I can’t imagine another First Lady like her. And I will miss the Obamas more than any departing First Family.
Patricia Kayden
@Baud: Thank you, President Obama, for being smart enough to marry such a wonderful woman like Michelle. Love them both.
Steeplejack
@Mnemosyne, @Omnes Omnibus:
I’m not denigrating Eleanor Roosevelt. She was a great First Lady and a great American. But the environment she inhabited was a goddamn walk in the park compared with what Michelle Obama faced every single day.
cmorenc
@BGinCHI:
Agreed – I can respect that some folks disapproved of the job her husband did as president without necessarily thinking all of them did so for racist reasons. HOWEVER, there isn’t ONE single reason for disapproving of Michelle Obama, except that she’s an uppity NI-CLANG when many such disapproving folk think they are purely among themselves, giggle at racist jokes comparing Michelle’s appearance to that of a chimpanzee. I actually saw that in a RW chain email an acquaintance mistakenly copied me onto..
rikyrah
How Michelle Obama expanded the definition of a First Lady
Margo Jefferson
The rules imposed on her were constricting. So she expanded them and, in the process, won people over without betraying herself
When Michelle Obama entered the White House, she had to contend with two onerous legacies.
The first was a stale clutter of expectations and prohibitions about the proper role of the first lady. The second was a cluster of stereotypes deeming black women unfit for any such role.
A first lady was expected to display gracious manners, wear tasteful
clothes and support worthy, uncontroversial causes. Whatever was hers alone – education, expertise, passion – had to be adapted to the needs of her husband’s presidency. She was there to please and enhance. A black woman, by contrast, was the opposite of that. Or that is, at least, what we’d always been told.
People were busily projecting negative stereotypes onto Michelle
Obama from the moment her husband began campaigning. She was pushy and sullen. She didn’t smile enough. She undercut her husband’s extraordinary tact and diplomacy by airing her reservations about his running for office. And how dare she say out loud that she’d spent most of her adult life not being proud of her country?
When Barack Obama won, her mandate as first lady was to win people over without betraying herself. And I wasn’t alone in worrying that she was too cautious and conciliatory at first. She called herself “mom-in chief”, applied herself to children’s health and the needs of military families. Appropriate womanly interests.
I know you have to reassure much of the white public, I thought, but
don’t pander; don’t tamp yourself down. And in fact, she didn’t. She
took more, not fewer risks. In hindsight that “mom-in-chief” looks
clever, even cheeky. She got rid of “lady”, which is too genteel. She
turned “mother” – so formal and pious – into the more informal “mom”.
Then claimed authority by seizing hold of “chief”.
She reminded people of all the women – moms and otherwise – who work hard and efficiently every day wherever their work takes them. She was taking both legacies and divesting them of their constriction so as to compose and improvise a new model.
zhena gogolia
The greatest first lady ever, or at least right up there with Eleanor.
rikyrah
I love you, First Lady Michelle LaVaughn Robinson Obama.
You have never let us down these past 8 years.
You exceeded expectations that we couldn’t have dared to even dream.
It has been an honor living through this time, watching you represent this country on an international stage.
Thank you so much.
Omnes Omnibus
@Steeplejack: I know you weren’t, but you simply pushed my “you aren’t the boss of me” button.
Bonnie
I will miss the First Lady very much as well. However, one of the things I hate most about Trump is that he will be able the use the White House; he is such a barbarian and should not be let in.
TriassicSands
The Obamas have more class than any presidential couple in my lifetime (not short).
The Trumps have less. Much, much less. Actually, none at all.
@Steeplejack:
I wouldn’t even bother trying to choose between Roosevelt and Michelle Obama, but I think you greatly underestimate the state of sexism in the country during the 30s and 40s compared with today. (Roosevelt couldn’t even vote until she was in her mid-thirties.)
mai naem mobile
I was one of the people who thought Michelle was going to be a negative for Barack OBama way back during the 08 campaign. Lord,I was completely and utterly wrong. She’s smart , nice and funny. She may even have Barack Oa level charisma .
Oh, and Melanoma ain’t fit to shine Sashas sneakers. I fully expect Lumpy to have a grift set up for Melanoma. Probably some kiND of endorsement fee from each clothing/cosmetics conglomerate for what she wears and uses at the WH. Disgusting family.
Another Scott
@Steeplejack: She also was the breadwinner for the family before Barack started running for President. – something most people (even strong supporters) probably don’t appreciate. She gave up an extremely successful career at the University of Chicago Hospitals to help Barack run, something that would be almost inconceivable in most marriages if the incomes were reversed.
She’s a treasure, and we (and Barack ;-) were very lucky to have her.
Cheers,
Scott.
Yutsano
@E.: I think once Sasha is done with school she’s done with DC. And I can’t fault her for that in the slightest.
Corner Stone
@Steeplejack: I think you need to simmer down a little. History will give Obama a fair reading on some things but I seriously doubt it’s going to be a top 5 rating. I don’t even know what to do with this “at least” bullshit.
Anya
Her speech made me cry. It’s hard to imagine that our gracious, smart, lovely FLOTUS will be replaced by a duo reality t.v replacements. I cannot imagine horrible Lucrezia and Melania assuming Michelle’s role.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
She really came into her own as a campaigner. I remember she appeared on the old Colbert show (of blessed memory) during the ’08 primary and she was really nervous and a bit stiff.
The whole story of her and her brother going from a two BR apartment to the Ivy League is extraordinary. Marilyn Robinson doesn’t seek any publicity, but she and her husband must’ve been impressive people.
Patricia Kayden
I would recommend that those of you who haven’t seen it, rent Southside With Me about the Obamas’ first date. Very nice movie — not sure if it actually captures what happened during that date, but it’s very romantic and sweet. The Obamas are one of the most loving political couples I’ve ever seen. Once in a while when I hear Rightwingers talk about them, I can hear the jealousy that there are no sex scandals/cheating marring the First Couple’s marriage. Not something you can say about many other political couples on either side of the aisle.
Feathers
@Steeplejack: Well, Eleanor did it all while heartbroken. She hadn’t shared a bedroom with her husband since discovering his affair with her secretary in 1918. She did all her wonderful work as First Lady while her husband’s mistress lived with them at the White House. It was all private, but I bet Michelle Obama wouldn’t call Eleanor’s trials “a walk in the park,” or put up with them for a moment. But without Eleanor keeping up appearances we never would have had Franklin as president.
I think we can have a co-greatest here, each for their very different eras.
Anne Laurie
@Steeplejack:
I think Mrs. Roosevelt and Michelle Obama are two of the women least liable to get into an argument about which of them had it harder, frankly.
But Mrs. Obama has always said that one of her greatest gifts was having two strong parents who did their considerable best to encourage their children to work hard so they could do better — and who always believed that their kids were smart enough and strong enough to do better, however cruel their circumstances. Her childhood, in that sense and others, was the very opposite of little Eleanor’s. FDR’s wife spent a lot of time, before and after he won the White House, getting past the neglect & cruelty which her parents (& other relatives, including I’m afraid FDR) told her was all she deserved.
And hard as it is for a woman to be taken seriously as a politician and a public advocate now, it was infinitely harder when Eleanor finally found her feet and started speaking up for others. The rightwingers didn’t call Eleanor ‘a gorilla’ (to my knowledge) but they did — in and out of the public media — insist she was a disgusting, ugly, mannish, unnatural “freak of nature” who drove her husband into adultery, and possibly murdered him when he threatened her vile plans to force decent Christian white people to “bow down” to Negroes, Jews, and sexual “inverts.”
I think the two women would’ve been great allies, frankly. I’d personally rank them as the second & third best First Ladies of all… depending on what Mrs Obama does with the rest of her (hopefully very long!) life… and only just a hair behind my great idol Abigail Adams.
JordanRules
@rikyrah: This. All of this.
There was a moving truck at the White House today and I broke down again.
mai naem mobile
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: I would take Michelle as the Veep in 2020 in a heartbeat. Not sure I want to start a Dem dynasty thing but it would be smart politics.
EZSmirkzz
I think Michelle was talking to you directly Anne Laurie. I could be wrong. I can’t think of any worse way of improving ones self esteem than blogging, the zingers sting, and the pat on the backs last but the moment it takes to get them. Often I write things that could be taken either way, but experience has taught me not to put anyone down that isn’t actually a public figure, or a complete conservative bonehead. That’s a target rich environment by itself. Keep on trucking girl – onward through the fog!
Patricia Kayden
@Steeplejack: I would put President Obama and President Clinton first and second in terms of best Presidents in my lifetime. Reagan and Bush the Younger were the worst.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Damn. That kind of weirdly drives it home, doesn’t it.
ETA: @Patricia Kayden: I’m coming up on fifty, and I’d agree. I think I’d give Obama the first two spots. I have no real memory of Nixon, but I think Bush* was worse. Our polity still had the strength to drive Nixon out.
* the old man’s presidency is just a blip on the radar, isn’t it.
Steeplejack (tablet)
@Omnes Omnibus:
Noted (with side-eye).
Brachiator
Love her madly.
Omnes Omnibus
@Steeplejack (tablet): You had to know that someone would do it. Why not me?
Major Major Major Major
@Corner Stone: where would you put him?
@BGinCHI: does seem about three points too high.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@efgoldman: I try to keep my expectations realistic, but I have high hopes for both of them over the next four years.
Somebody said that they expect Obama to troll Trump at least once. I wondered if they left out “a month” or “a week”.
Corner Stone
@Major Major Major Major: Not top 5. He’s going to get buried, shortly.
Patricia Kayden
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: I remember Father Bush’s presidency for him puking on the Japanese Prime Minister and using the phrase “New World Order”. Apart from that, his presidency was a blip in time.
Major Major Major Major
@Corner Stone: are presidents usually judged in the context of what the next president does?
ETA: cuz man, if that’s true, Lincoln.
Steeplejack (tablet)
@Omnes Omnibus:
Didn’t think it would shake loose so many Eleanoristas. Now waiting for the Ida McKinleys to weigh in.
Corner Stone
@Major Major Major Major: Certainly that is a factor.
ETA, if you want to put Obama into context with Lincoln then I suggest you please proceed, Governor.
JordanRules
@Corner Stone: Buried?
Welp, he’ll be good with a whole lot of folks. Top 5 and all that. He can’t be taken away from us even if this country reacted to him by imploding. We know what he did and what he was up against.
Another Scott
@Patricia Kayden: GHW Bush rallied much of the world to kick Saddam out of Kuwait. That was a pretty big deal at the time. START I and the ADA were pretty big deals too, as was helping to manage the collapse of the Soviet Union and the reunification of Germany without blowing up Europe. He had a few other foreign-affairs accomplishments (and some WTF moments, like Panama). Obama expressed some admiration for him.
FWIW.
Cheers,
Scott.
Anne Laurie
@Steeplejack (tablet):
Because there’s so few people on this blog who might respond reflexively to a comment that came perilously close to “Phht, how much could some woman have accomplished, back in those days?”
Mnemosyne
@Major Major Major Major:
Didn’t you know? John Adams’s screwups in office are why George Washington is held in such low esteem today.
mai naem mobile
I like and respect Obama but Washington ,Jefferson,Lincoln and FDR automatically take up the top four slots. And there’s several that could easily get #5. He’s for sure in the top ten and probably the top seven.
Major Major Major Major
@Corner Stone: how on earth did you get from that that I was equating obama and Lincoln? I was saying that by your criteria Lincoln should be considered not as good as he is since he was followed by two rather ungood presidents.
hovercraft
@BGinCHI:
I second that emotion.
I will miss her, she is my role model.
Mike E
@Steeplejack (tablet): heh, Mrs Roosevelt crafted the UN charter. Historical Badass.
raven
@Another Scott: Yea, with bullshit lies about Iraqi troops bayoneting babies in their cribs. Fuck that asshole.
Woodrowfan
Eleanor also faced a lot of hatred from the southern wing of her own party, that considered her a N-clang lover and a commie.
I will miss Michelle and her husband. Damn 22d Amendment.
Corner Stone
@JordanRules:
There have been at least three people in charge at times of existential threat to our nation. Washington, Abe and FDR. Tell me how Obama comes in one or two spots behind any of those.
rikyrah
@Patricia Kayden:
I love Southside With You. Even bought the DVD
rikyrah
@Feathers:
Hyde Park On The Hudson showed me the depth and extent of Hoedom that was President Franklin Roosevelt. I knew that he had ‘extracurricular’ women….But Goddamn! He pretty much had one for everyday of the week.????
Corner Stone
@Major Major Major Major: Obama will not be hindered by the abomination that is Trump. But it’s pretty clear that the agenda is to wipe out as many items as possible that Obama fought for and cared about.
A legacy is only as good as long as it’s….a legacy.
The New Deal, New Society, Civil Rights. Those were long lived and expanded on for years after the president that was given credit was in office. I am waiting to see what happens with ACA and same sex marriage rights.
Another Scott
@mai naem mobile: Dunno. It seems the rankings aren’t universally agreed. ;-)
If I had to rank them, it would mainly be based on military and economic challenges during their terms, not due to their importance in actually defining the country (so Jefferson would move down).
Maybe something like:
1) Lincoln (Civil War, ending slavery)
2) FDR (Great Depression, World War II)
3) Washington (Setting the standard for Presidents to follow, Whiskey Rebellion, avoiding “foreign entanglements”)
4) Obama (Great Recession, Obamacare, winding down Iraq and Afghanistan wars, Pivot to Asia)
5) TR (Progressive era, Panama Canal, National Parks, 1906 Nobel Peace Prize)
Just off the top of my head, though. ;-)
Cheers,
Scott.
J R in WV
I just jumped in here to say, I have the utmost respect and admiration for President Obama, but part of that admiration is his ability to woo and marry and raise wonderful children with Michelle. She is a shining ornament on the nation’s history.
I wish the best of the rest of their lives ahead for them!
Yutsano
@Woodrowfan:
Which ironically enough was enacted because of Eleanor’s husband. But yeah term limits bite most of the time.
@Another Scott: GHWB was pretty much destined to be good at foreign policy from being an old CIA guy. And he had the foresight to stop before taking out Saddam believing containment was the wiser course
He was right. And I have no love for the Hussein tyranny.
Another Scott
@raven: Yeah, that was another black mark against him.
Still, kicking Saddam out of Kuwait was a good thing, and not going to Baghdad to throw him out of power was an even better thing (as W showed us all too clearly).
My $0.02.
Cheers,
Scott.
ThresherK (tablet)
I have been “missing them yet?” for weeks.
JordanRules
@Corner Stone: That’s totally fair.
He is a very, very important repudiation of America’s original sin and all that grew out of it. And, he happened to be excellent at the job.
I also happen to believe that what Dubya handed him was really, really, really bad. Let’s imagine if the economy wasn’t dealt with competantly. Let’s imagine no Auto industry bailout. I remember the new Hoovervilles that started to pop up under Shrub. 2 wars with supremely complicated global dynamics. Just part of the picture DWB.
ETA because autocorrect went to Hooter not Hoover. I was not talking about chicken wangs. LOL
Corner Stone
@efgoldman: Did they go back and lose WWII somehow?
Ohio Mom
If the measure of a great president is how he/she faces and handles the greatest challenges, we’re gonna need someone who will blow the previous top ten (whoever they are) out of the water after Trump and Pence finally leave D.C.
Sigh…
Mike J
Catch
of
the
year.
Baud
@Ohio Mom: Consider it done.
Patricia Kayden
@Another Scott: Ok. I will have to defer to you and historians on that because I honestly don’t remember much about Father Bush. I remember Barbara more.
Steeplejack
@Anne Laurie:
Your complete humorlessness is noted, and please fuck off with trying to Mau-Mau me on some sort of sexist/anti-feminist charge.
Omnes Omnibus
@Steeplejack: Anti-Colonialist!
Another Scott
@Baud:
–
DonnieBaud 2020!Cheers,
Scott.
JordanRules
@Mike J: That was sweet!
Ohio Mom
@Baud: Whew! Thanks. For a moment there, I’d overwhelmed myself. Don’t know how i overlooked the promise of your presidency. Good to remember that all is not lost.
Anne Laurie
@Corner Stone:
I have some hope that the ACA will survive long enough that the Repubs who care about their careers more than their grudges will realize taking it away from people will not be politically easy.
I have more hope that same-sex marriage has already reached third-rail status. For one thing, some very big Repub donors/Trump supporters — hello, Peter ‘Bathory’ Thiel! — are gay men who might want to gay-marry their
blood donormale partners, if they haven’t done so already, and those Repub donors don’t care what the Jeebus-mumbling mouthbreathers in flyover country want.More importantly, those of us here in the Peoples’ Commonwealth of Massachusetts have a head start on the rest of you, and you would not believe how little attention is paid to the gay-marriage issue these days, even among the screaming Trumplodytes of talk radio (stand away from the vehicle, Howie Carr). Turns out, once legalizing OMG GAY MARRIAGE turns out to have no effect whatsofvckingever on 99.9% of the average Masshole’s life — as opposed to the Church-sponsored threat of legalizing OGM — it just hasn’t been a selling point for the professional haters. There’s always the noisy few who don’t want anybody else to be happy if they can’t be happy, some of them no doubt regretting old memories of loves lost because whatwilltheneighborsthink. But most people just have too much going on, day to day, to waste much energy trying to make their neighbors’ lives that much more miserable.
Brachiator
@mai naem mobile:
Jefferson had a mixed record as president, probably does not belong in the top five. Obviously among the greats as a Founder.
JordanRules
@Corner Stone: So the country’s racism works against him there too? ACA polls well, OCare doesn’t. You already know what it is. Fuck, we can’t win for shit.
And yet I know this already.
Corner Stone
@efgoldman: Fuck you it’s not the point. Don’t try and drape Churchill on to me for this bullshit you fucking clown.
You an M4 can take the train on your willful BS on this thread. Obama is not “responsible” for who follows him, and the decisions they make. But sure as all that happens history will definitely look at what comes next.
frosty
@Bonnie:
Not to worry, he’s (maybe a germophobe?) and is going to stay in Trump Tower and we and NYC will pay for the security etc.
Corner Stone
@JordanRules: Of course it is racism bullshit. But when it is gone, that is a part of the legacy that is gone.
Anne Laurie
@Steeplejack: You got a little too personal; I warned you off.
This womanist stuff’s more important to some of us than others.
J R in WV
@rikyrah:
Wow, there are so many great comments in this thread.
Thanks, rikyrah, I agree completely.
We voted for and cried election night with tears of joy, then we cried at the inauguration, and then again in 2012. But even having seen sings of Jim Crow as a child, these two wonderful people have had to put up with unbelievable abuse, all unwarranted.
We do not deserve their service as a nation, they are that much better than we have any right to expect. We have been so lucky in the past 8 years. What a shame the next few years have no chance of being so good…
Corner Stone
Maybe now is a good time to ask why the US Govt and the Obama WH knew for four+ months about a major hostile power Active Measures Attack against our democracy and did nothing about it, other than a fucking phone call.
Wonder how history will view that, if history gets to accurately exist after a few months from now.
Brachiator
@Anne Laurie: Sadly, the Republicans will be coming after the ACA, same sex marriage and women’s reproductive rights with everything they’ve got. They will also embolden right wing state action and ferociously defend the most hostile state and local anti-gay and anti-woman laws.
Look for Log Cabin Republicans to help rationalize attacks on gay marriage, maybe with lame stuff about leaving it to states and accepting civil unions instead of “real marriage,” which will be reserved for heterosexual couples.
It’s going to be a hard fight to oppose this stuff.
Corner Stone
@efgoldman: That’s lame shit, friend. You failed to make an argument but want to have everything your way. Of course the Brits dumping Churchill after WWII have no effect on his actual legacy. What relevant point are you trying to make by dragging it into this thread?
If ACA and/or same sex marriage goes away – which both or either is a possibility – then the Obama presidency must be re-evaluated. Stop trying to defame me because your argument is shit.
mai naem mobile
@Another Scott: I didn’t realize TR was regarded so highly by historians. Republican indies but not historians. TR was going to be my #5. I know raven will smack me for this but LBJ could be a #5 for civil rights legislation and the Great Society stuff. I am still not sure if Obama belongs in the top 5.
khead
@Corner Stone:
Pretty sure the ACA is good – see Roy Cooper. The question is who will get to take responsibility for the new Trumpcare.
Same sex marriage should be fine too. But good luck getting a wedding cake if you are gay or a single mother in Bumfuck, USA after the upcoming religious liberty revival.
RobertDSC-Mac Mini
Pure class. Love this FLOTUS to death.
Omnes Omnibus
@efgoldman: FWIW I do agree with CS’s point that historians in the future will mark Obama down if many of his accomplishments are short lived. We are far too close to it to make objective calls about where he will land. At least 20 years before people can really start to say.
Mary G
@SiubhanDuinne: It’s probably been linked to already, since it’s almost a week, which is ancient in internet time, but I read it late and consider it my go-to when I need a pep talk: John Scalzi’s New Years piece on the moral arc of the universe:
Steeplejack (tablet)
@efgoldman:
Think they’ve rebranded as “Log Closet Republicans.”
Anne Laurie
@rikyrah:
Lotsa historians say that before FDR got polio and/or if he hadn’t been married to Eleanor when he did, he was well on his way to being at best another George H.W. Bush. A well-bred, well-connected lightweight who worked his connections into one term in the White House, a few okay foreign-policy accomplishments, before getting turfed out for someone willing to work harder because they had more to lose.
Ending up a “helpless cripple” (as the general feeling was, in those days) gave him an impulse to do more than schmooze & fornicate his life away. Being married to Eleanor gave him the connections, and a helpmate, who could point him towards a bigger and worthier destiny.
Like a lot of horndogs, he needed women to nuture / worship him at least as much as he needed ‘playmates’. By the time he came to Warm Springs, he’d pretty much lost any chance that Eleanor was going to step into that role (not that it would have come easily to her under the best of circumstances).
The Roosevelts weren’t the first, and probably won’t be the last, First Couple who had a great partnership even though they had a lousy marriage. Part of the Obamas’ gift to the country was making both halves of that equation look good!
mai naem mobile
I don’t see how the GOP can turn the clock back on gay marriage. Employment rights ,yeah but gay marriage would be a legal nightmare. You have gay couples who have had in vitro kids and gay divorces. Different rights in different states. SS benefits, survivor SS benefits … and that’s off the top of my head .
Another Scott
@mai naem mobile: Somehow I forgot LBJ. He had an incredibly mixed record, but when he was good (civil rights, Thurgood Marshall, Medicare, Medicaid, War on Poverty) he was very, very good. Vietnam was a huge blot, as was his inability to figure out how to hold the party together to preserve his accomplishments (over the long term) and thus add to the conditions that led to Nixon’s victory…
Hi raven! ;-)
Cheers,
Scott.
Feathers
@Another Scott: No, George Washington does need to be put at the top. People forget that he refused to become king. He stood for election, held the office for two terms, and then oversaw a peaceful election to select his replacement. This was unprecedented in world history and, totally, completely would not have happened if the general who won the Revolutionary War had been a less extraordinary man. As Napoleon said, “They wanted me to be another George Washington,” but he was not. He picked up the crown that had been left lying on the ground.
Without Washington, we wouldn’t have had any other presidents.
Corner Stone
@efgoldman: Be specific please. Do you mean at #69 or some other response.
Because if you still mean to mention Churchill’s legacy not being damaged by being dumped after WWII then my point remains.
Omnes Omnibus
@Mary G: Thank you for linking to this.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Yeah, that’s the one dogwhistle Trump didn’t blow much. He even waved a rainbow flag at one of his rallies. I wouldn’t look for any advancement on gay rights, but I don’t think Trump cares enough, and Dean Heller and maybe even Jeff Flake (though I suspect he’s pretty safe) don’t want to have that fight before 2018. Sadly, I can’t think of many more (even possibly) vulnerable R Senators.
JordanRules
@Corner Stone: Ahhh finally. It came out. I almost brought this up in my other responses cause I know you’re pissed about it.
Obama could not save us from this self inflicted wound. I know you think differently, but remember the racism and bullshit you just aknowledged that can taint his legacy in a way the other 43 never had to imagine or deal with. Now take that racism and have him blow up shit during an election. It would only make it worse.
Also, don’t let Republicans off the hook. They knew and he needed them to put country first for once. I also suspect we’ll hear more about how this all went down later. It sucks for sure, but I trust that he didn’t just say oh fuck it and give up. YMMV
Feathers
@Mary G: Did you see his article in tomorrow’s LA Times: John Scalzi’s 10-point plan for getting creative work done in the age of Trump. Another much needed pep talk.
eemom
@Anne Laurie:
Shit, every time I come back here I think you might have figured out that there’s a difference between the voices in your head and the comments on this blog, and every time I’m disappointed.
Similar with Corner Asshole’s disses of Obama.
Plus ca fucking change, etc.
Brachiator
@rikyrah:
If would have helped him with his presidency during those hard times, I would have given him 2 women a day.
Another Scott
@khead: Indeed. I don’t see any way that Obergefell v. Hodges is reversed.
“Just kidding – you’re not married any more.” Nope.
But, indeed, too many GOP people will try to elevate “religious liberty” to a height that trumps (heh) all other rights of those they want to grind under their boots, so the ability to exercise that right to marry will likely be under pressure for a while. :-(
Cheers,
Scott.
Corner Stone
@JordanRules: He took an oath. Maybe I should expect something else….because?
Mary G
@Corner Stone: They over-estimated the intelligence of 46% of American voters.
Corner Stone
@JordanRules:
Self inflicted wound? Where? We asked Putin to do this? What a fucking cop out mentality.
TS
@mai naem mobile: Washington, Lincoln & Roosevelt won much of their high points because – victorious in war. For a President to be great WITHOUT winning a major war shows the truth of how great he/she is.
The two most amazing and memorable leaders of their country in my lifetime are President Obama and Nelson Mandela.
Jacel
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Or perhaps the slogan “Make America At Least Adequately Tolerable Again”.
Mary G
@JordanRules: Yeah, the tell-all books about 2016 are going to be amazing.
Corner Stone
@Mary G: I disagree. We don’t take a poll and decide what to do next when it comes to national security questions. We have people that do that. They decided not to.
Omnes Omnibus
@Brachiator: It is reported that when someone told Lincoln that he should sack Grant due to his drinking, Lincoln replied that if he knew what brand of whiskey Grant was drinking, he`d order a barrel of it sent to all his other generals. Apocryphal, of course, but on topic.
Corner Stone
@eemom: You disagree on what, exactly, you Cape Buffalo of Fucking Stupid?
SiubhanDuinne
@Mary G:
Thank you. I had not seen it, and am grateful to you for linking.
JordanRules
@Corner Stone: I’m tapping out. You make some good points. Nice win today too.
Brachiator
@efgoldman:
Good point. I expect that Trump will do everything he can to expunge Obama from the historical record, they way that some pharohs (or Roman emperors) destroyed every reference to their predecessors. This is also the deep dream of the racist cretins who have tried to pretend that Obama wasn’t really the president for the past eight years.
But in the end, it will not matter, because Obama’s policies were right, just and humane.
pluky
@Another Scott: Vietnam is the definitive blot on LBJ’s legacy for sure. As to holding the party together, he had no illusions of that happening in a post civil rights era. “We have lost the South for a generation.”
Corner Stone
@JordanRules: Meh. We’re going to get fucking pummeled, ugly style.
RandyG
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: #11
Every Democrat everywhere should be proclaiming that loudly, starting January 21st.
Another Scott
@TS: The Treaty of Paris was in September 1783. Washington took office in April 1789. If we’re going to give generals credit for winning wars before they take office, we should probably have Eisenhower in the top 5. ;-)
Washington was very, very important, but I still don’t know if I’d put him number 1, myself.
Cheers,
Scott.
Larkspur
@Corner Stone: What is your malfunction this evening? “Stop trying to defame me because your argument is shit.” Did you even re-read what you wrote to efgoldman? That was some nasty shit. Everything goes along kind of okay for a while and then BANG you go off the rails and are mean and vicious to everyone. Then I, having decided that I appreciate your insight, have to slap my forehead and remind myself, “Oh yeah, it’s Corner Stone. Duck and cover.”
Now you’ve ruined my Shelly O. Appreciation moment. Thanks a lot.
Brachiator
@Omnes Omnibus:
Yep, absolutely great anecdote, even if not historically accurate.
JordanRules
One more time for the nosebleed seats…FLOTUS is amazing!! So proud.
Larkspur
@JordanRules: Yes. Yes. Okay, I’m over it. I love that family, including the dogs.
khead
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
You cut out the more important part of my post. ACA and marriage should be ok.
But get ready for a shitload of petty exemptions on what the religious – i.e. GOP white folks – are required to do with respect to public accommodation. Because Jesus. And Trump. And the newly minted USSC.
Corner Stone
@efgoldman:
And your point is still garbage. The slaves were not put back into physical slavery, even though Jim Crow Laws were bullshit that came later. Reagan and Bush happened decades after FDR, and decades after the New Deal was passed and expanded on. There is simply no comparison here. None. If the ACA goes away. Or if SSM goes away. That will absolutely change how Obama is viewed moving forward. Not if the ACA is damaged 15 years from now. Right now. This is not difficult to grasp unless you’re willfully being stupid and just wanting to argue bullshit points that don’t make any logical comparison or sense.
zhena gogolia
I was so proud of every member of the Obama family, yes, Larkspur, me too, Bo and Sunny as well. And we go from that to having to hang our head in shame. My emotions about DJT are many — hatred, anger, incredible fear — but foremost is embarrassment. I live in a country that has that as its leader.
Omnes Omnibus
@Larkspur: Especially the dogs. Remember which blog you are at.
zhena gogolia
okay my comments are disappearing again
Larkspur
@Omnes Omnibus: Right. Especially the dogs. I just finished up a dog-sitting job and I’m missing the two little dogs and I wish I could dog-sit for Sunny and Bo.
JordanRules
@Larkspur: Awwww. Sunny and Bo will have some new digs to get used to as well. Yep, love them too!
OT: feel like Al Michaels has been calling games my whole life
Corner Stone
@Larkspur: Can I buy you a set of panties you can bunch when i say something you don’t like?
Listen. His argument was, and remains, garbage. I’m not going to take that because it was, and is, garbage. He wanted to call me a mean drunk because he had nothing to counter with that made any kind of sense. Are you with me? Are you here pouring me shots? His use of slandering me is an easy out from his point of view because what am I supposed to do? Argue loudly I don’t drink? Have not had a drink in years? Link to a picture of me and Cole at an AA meeting? It was a cheapshot that is garbage.
Omnes Omnibus
@Larkspur: Like the Obama girls, I had a dog named Beau (Bo) as a kid.
Steeplejack
@zhena gogolia:
Sober up and stop commenting in Russian.
Brachiator
@Another Scott:
I think you have to put him in at number 1. He set the standard, established precedents, was the freaking role model. He might have been president for life, had he wanted. Also, the way he handled the talents and egos of his first Cabinet, and his dealings with Congress, masterfully helped the new nation get out of the starting gate without stumbling.
Perfect Tommy
Can someone please tell me why Donna Brazile is still the chair of the DNC? Have the Dems learned nothing from this ass kicking we just took? I got an email from the DNC with the subject line “re: shady business” crowing about how unethical the Republicans are, signed by Brazile. FFS she was fired from CNN for trying to game a debate.
Larkspur
@Corner Stone: Don’t trouble yourself about my undergarments. The mean drunk part? Yes, I can certainly see how that would set a person off. That’s unfair and unkind, and I get your point.
Omnes Omnibus
@Perfect Tommy: Because she hasn’t been replaced yet. It isn’t like she won’t be. If you want to stir up that kind of shit, there is a dedicated thread a couple of posts down.
Ruviana
@Mary G: Yes, I read that last night and it helped. Scalzi can really bring it.
Brachiator
@khead:
Not necessarily true. For example, the IRS treats same sex marriage like common law marriage. If your common law marriage was valid in the state which allows it, the IRS will recognize the marriage if you move to another state. The IRS applies a similar logic to same sex marriage.
But this is regulation, crafted during the Obama administration. A Trump administration could scrap all this.
GOP fools talk about immediate legislation that would repeal the ACA before any replacement is in place. They are hot to repeal some of the taxes which help support the law. If they screw things up and insurance companies bail, the Republicans will say that it wasn’t their fault, even though the result might be the end of the viability of the ACA.
Sab
@rikyrah: I am a WASP
but my grandchildren are black. The oldest girl is sixteen, the youngest is twelve. For their entire politically aware lives they have had this amazing first family in the White House. I think Obama is the best president since Lincoln. I admire Mary Todd Lincoln but Michelle Obama is way cooler. When the Trump catastrophe hits, these girls are going to look back to the Obama family as the social and moral norm. That gives me some comfort. Not much, but some.
Brachiator
@Sab:
Well said.
I greatly respect and admire Mrs Obama. And I think that the Obama daughters are models of poise and grace. I wish them well.
Anne Laurie
@Perfect Tommy:
Because somebody has to keep the lights on between the turfing-out of DWasserman-Schultz and the election of the next Cat-Herder-in-Chief.
And Brazile lost her TV gig because of ‘appearances’ — i.e., pearl-clutching BS from the Repubs & their enablers. This interim DNC appointment was part somebody-hadda, and partly least-the-party-owed-a-loyal-soldier.
She’s out as soon as Perez or Ellison or one of the other three-and-counting candidates wins. I think the election is scheduled for April, assuming the resumption of the Bernista purity wars (sigh) permits.
Ruckus
@Sab:
That wouldn’t be a bad vision for any of us.
Another Scott
@Brachiator: In my ranking at #67 I said he “Set(ting) the standard for Presidents to follow, Whiskey Rebellion, avoiding ‘foreign entanglements'”. I agree that defining the office was terribly important. He didn’t have any children so the thought (as some have suggested) of him being a king wasn’t really in the cards either. He was an old man by the time his 2nd term ended (he died about 2.5 years after he left office).
I don’t think there’s an overwhelming case that he should be ranked above Lincoln. Lincoln preserved the Union in the face of lots of opposition (obviously), even among his own officer corps (probably most famously, McClellan). He freed the slaves in the face of lots of opposition as well. He pushed the transcontinental railroad. He pushed the Homestead Act (with all the good and bad that came with it). Land-grant colleges happened on his watch. Etc.
When Washington was President, there weren’t tens of thousands of rebel troops running around the country trying to overthrow the government.
;-)
But people can and will have different rankings.
Cheers,
Scott.
Omnes Omnibus
@Another Scott: Setting good standards/precedents as the first carries great weight.
Omnes Omnibus
@efgoldman: I directed him downstairs to mm’s “Bernie was still better” thread.
Another Scott
@Omnes Omnibus: A judge would say that.
:-)
Good point.
Cheers,
Scott.
Omnes Omnibus
@Another Scott: Not currently an ALJ. Fuck Scott Walker.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@efgoldman: also Jamie Harrison, Chair of the South Carolina Dems, the mayor of South Bend, Pete Buttigieg, Sally Boynton Brown, head of the Idaho Dems (I wonder how many there are?) and googling to check those names, Raymond Buckley, chair of the NH Dems. I’ve seen Harrison on TV, and he’s impressive. Buttigieg has an impressive resume: Harvard, Rhodes Scholar, Naval reserve officer.
I’m curious about Obama’s apparent if indirect opposition to Ellison. None of the articles I’ve read suggest a reason, and chalking it up to just Bernie! would seem very un-OBama-ish.
Omnes Omnibus
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Well, the Navy thing is a worry.
Another Scott
@Omnes Omnibus: Indeed, I remember. :-(
Any strong Ds planning on running against him in 2018?
Cheers,
Scott.
Omnes Omnibus
@Another Scott: No idea at this point.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Omnes Omnibus: is Walker term-limited ?
Omnes Omnibus
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Nope.
amk
will miss her more than the kenyan.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Omnes Omnibus
@efgoldman: I love Gwen Moore. She is awesome.
ETA: She will never run for nor be elected Gov. I just really like her.
Another Scott
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: TheAmericanProspect has what looks like a pretty balanced report on how various labor groups view Ellison and Perez, without so much of the anonymous “informed sources” and insider gossip that is so common in much of the reporting on stuff like this.
Cheers,
Scott.
SiubhanDuinne
Apologies if someone else has already linked to this, but the White House has released a video “Yes We Can” featuring both celebrities and ordinary unsung folks talking about their most memorable Obama moments.
It is heartwarming, moving, and funny. Do take five minutes to watch it.
ETA: Oops, link https://youtu.be/eDOo3v2ntHI
Jim, Foolish Literalist
God, would I love to see Bibi forced out of office. If it were to happen while Obama were still in office, even better
@Another Scott: thanks, I ‘ll check it out
Brachiator
@Another Scott:
Of course there is. That’s the whole point of our debate, and the ongoing debate of historians. Washington setting standards and establishing precedent was vitally important. It gave Lincoln the union he sought to preserve.
BTW, yep, Washington had no sons, which was an interesting bit of historical serendipity, and helped us avoid the idea of the presidency as a hereditary office.
But that he voluntarily left office after two terms was of huge consequence. Had he been elected to a third term, even had he died in office, it would have weakened the idea that a president should ever step down. Instead, subsequent presidents had to answer the question, “Oh, you want to run for a third term? What makes you better than George freaking Washington?”
SiubhanDuinne
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
I’m wondering how long it will be before Trump gilds all the decorative carving on the venerable Resolute desk in the Oval Office.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@SiubhanDuinne: that made me a little verklempt
Another Scott
@Brachiator: In the table at Wikipedia article on ‘scholars’ rankings, George on average ties with Thomas, below Abraham (with FDR on top). ;-p
FWIW.
Cheers,
Scott.
Brachiator
@Another Scott:
That Washington would tie with Jefferson, on average, demonstrates the error of these scholar rankings.;)
Mary G
@SiubhanDuinne: That was lovely, thanks. The moments people remember say a lot about them. I had forgotten the awesome marshmallow gun! He is so good with kids and I loved that he had science fair kids to the WH every year and got such a kick out of them. He is the best president with children in my lifetime. Even the preternatural soothing of crying babies that makes Michelle mad.
ETA: I would bet money that Trump gets rid of the Resolute desk, hopefully by putting it in storage instead of auctioning it off for “charity.” He won’t want to use an old thing other presidents have used; he’s special.
opiejeanne
@Mary G: Will he even use the Oval Office?
Another Scott
@Mary G: While Donnie might decide to use another desk, he can’t get rid of it – it is US Government property.
Cheers,
Scott.
Another Scott
@opiejeanne: I think he will – it would be a huge, huge mess for all of the Executive Office of the President (around 4000 people) to be in the White House complex except for the President. He may whine about it and take more “vacation” than even W, but he’ll almost certainly have to be in DC.
But the fact that that is even a possibility shows how incredibly messed up Donnie is…
Cheers,
Scott.
Steve in the ATL
@Brachiator:
Exactly. Jefferson gets docked at least ten spots for founding UVA.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Another Scott: He’ll probably do what “Big Boy”(aka The Goverator) did out here in CA, live in NYC and commute to DC when necessary.
Mary G
@Another Scott: He’s already said the laws don’t apply to the president,
BillinGlendaleCA
@Mary G: I’ve heard that phrase somewhere before.
Mary G
@BillinGlendaleCA: Republicans don’t believe in learning. Trump has taken a bunch of plays out of the Nixon handbook.
LAC
@Major Major Major Major: why would you even care what corner drunk thinks?
I am going to miss them both and their haters and snide PUMAs can go fuck off.
waspuppet
@BGinCHI: People who virulently hate President Obama can at least try to hide it under a fig leaf of policy differences. But if you disapprove of Michelle Obama, you’re just a straight-up racist. Notice that the idea of telling kids to eat vegetables and getting out and playing once in a while has become “controversial.”
My only regret where she’s involved is that she never went with a natural. Enough Trump voters would’ve dropped dead from heart attacks to swing the election.
Zinsky
Michelle Obama is a classy, intelligent, beautiful woman. She and her husband brought classiness, dignity and respectfulness back to the White House after doorknob Bush and his google-eyed Stepford wife Laura. Melania Trump may be beautiful but she seems to have the IQ of a bowl of oatmeal and has the same blank Stepford wife stare that Laura Bush had. I think people who earned their position in life through hard work, instead of inheriting their wealth or marrying a rich person, shine with an inner light that is much brighter than those who didn’t.