Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Conservatism: there are people the law protects but does not bind and others who the law binds but does not protect.

You don’t get to peddle hatred on saturday and offer condolences on sunday.

Within six months Twitter will be fully self-driving.

I wonder if trump will be tried as an adult.

Glad to see john eastman going through some things.

Michigan is a great lesson for Dems everywhere: when you have power…use it!

Battle won, war still ongoing.

“Just close your eyes and kiss the girl and go where the tilt-a-whirl takes you.” ~OzarkHillbilly

Just because you believe it, that doesn’t make it true.

Republicans do not pay their debts.

Shallow, uninformed, and lacking identity

Let there be snark.

We are builders in a constant struggle with destroyers. let’s win this.

One of our two political parties is a cult whose leader admires Vladimir Putin.

FFS people, this was a good thing. take the win.

The willow is too close to the house.

We’ll be taking my thoughts and prayers to the ballot box.

The arc of the moral universe doesn’t bend itself. it’s up to us.

Today’s gop: why go just far enough when too far is right there?

How any woman could possibly vote for this smug smarmy piece of misogynistic crap is beyond understanding.

Nothing worth doing is easy.

Fuck the extremist election deniers. What’s money for if not for keeping them out of office?

After dobbs, women are no longer free.

“That’s what the insurrection act is for!”

You are here: Home / Music / Saturday Morning Open Thread: Merry Orthodox Xmas!

Saturday Morning Open Thread: Merry Orthodox Xmas!

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Shchedryk

Which gets, by my weak google-fu, very little attention; but here’s the Evening Standard:

While many western countries hold their celebrations on December 25, in much of the Soviet Union and the Middle East, Christmas falls 13 days later.

The reason for getting festive in early January is that some countries still celebrate feast days according to the old Julian Calendar, which is currently 13 days behind the Gregorian Calendar…

Some of the countries that will be celebrating Christmas today include Belarus, Montenegro, Russia, Greece and Serbia.

Some Christmas traditions are shared between the countries that celebrate the Julian calendar. Advent season is a time of fasting and performing deeds of charity, and meat is cut out of the diet for 40 days.

Christmas Eve is celebrated with a special dinner, which often features 12 dishes to represent the 12 apostles – although some do not eat on Christmas Eve at all, until the first star appears in the sky. Christmas Day sees most countries tuck into a hearty Christmas feast, with local delicacies eaten from that particular country…

***********

Apart from marking the official end of the (religious) Christmas season, what’s on the agenda for the day?

Reader Interactions

164Comments

  1. 1.

    raven

    We’re invited to a 12th Night party tonight but I’m not sure we’ll be going out. No snow here but the Hawk is out!

  2. 2.

    OzarkHillbilly

    Currently below zero here but supposed to hit 26 today. Come Tuesday they are calling for a high of 59. These temps are gonna give me whiplash.

  4. 4.

    JPL

    @raven: The Hawk is out? We have a covering of snow. It started as snow early but changed to rain and sleet. The roads won’t be passable today.

  5. 5.

    raven

    @OzarkHillbilly: The Sears tech came and did his diagnosis. It’s most likely the pump sensor which is the cheapest possibility at $50+ install. We ordered all three possible components and he’ll install them in order. It’s going to take 3 weeks to get them, the hazard of having a daily new machine I guess. I’m not even pissed.

  6. 6.

    raven

    @JPL:

    Dead End Street
    Lou Rawls
    I was born in a city the called the ‘Windy City’
    And they call it the ‘Windy City’ because of the ‘Hawk’.
    All mighty Hawk,
    Talking about Mr. Wind kind of mean around winter time
    I happen to live on a street that was a dead-end street
    There was nothing to block or buffer the wind, the elements
    Keep them from knocking my pad down, Jim I mean really socking it to me
    And the boiler would bust and the heat was gone

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-CRyMVeXyvY

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dfu8k8es_iY

  7. 7.

    Morzer

    Vicente Fox Quesada ‏@VicenteFoxQue 13h13 hours ago
    Sr Trump,the intelligence report is devastating.Losing election by more than 3M votes and in addition this.Are you a legitimate president?

    Getting the impression that Mexico might be gearing up to build a wall and make Trump pay for it….

  9. 9.

    Baud

    @Morzer: Mexico is going through some issues right now after deregulating gas prices. Fox may be taking a page out of Donald’s distraction playbook.

  11. 11.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @raven:

    I’m not even pissed.

    I would be, not that it would do me any good. Just raise my blood pressure. It’s why I let my wife deal with that kind of shit, I just get too frustrated. If I can’t fix it with a framing hammer, I’ll fix it for good with a framing hammer.

  19. 19.

    OzarkHillbilly

    Senator Bob Corker, the chair of the Senate foreign relations committee says the Iran deal is horrible, terrible, no good, but it’s working as intended. Iran will not develop a nuclear bomb any time in the foreseeable future. So, for the record Cheeto Benito, we should not tear it up.

    But it’s a horrible, terrible, no good deal. Just so Americans know.

    @Baud: Fox is very good at it.

  23. 23.

    p.a.

    tRumpmericans 2020: “sheeeeit it’s harder to kick the darkies now I can’t afford even cardboard shoes-es.”

  26. 26.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @Raven: The Boss is always right, and when she’s wrong she’s even more right when she says to stfu about it. Or so it works around here. Not that I ever listen.

  28. 28.

    OzarkHillbilly

    The US economy added more than 2m jobs in 2016 and finished the year with a pick-up in wages, suggesting Donald Trump will inherit a solid labour market from outgoing president Barack Obama.

    Obama gives Trump a nice “Welcome to the White House” gift, unlike the steaming pile of fecal matter left on the White House steps by his predecessor. Proof again that both sides DON’T do it.

  29. 29.

    ThresherK

    My wife’s brother’s wife is Greek Orthodox, so they do celebrate this a bit. But the kids always got their presents for Western Christmas. (If I were a kid I don’t know if I’d want to wait a week into the new year either!)

  33. 33.

    debbie

    @Baud:

    Nah, I think this is payback for calling Mexicans rapists. You’ll recall Fox’s reaction to Trump’s statement that Mexico would pay for the wall?

  37. 37.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @Baud: Hell no, he’s going to keep it all to himself. That is the centerpiece of his business model.

  38. 38.

    debbie

    @efgoldman:

    Yes, Kasich’s pretty much toast. He’s coming out with a two-year budget soon, and it will not pass unquestioned as it had in the past. He’s already a lame duck for the final two years of his term. It will be interesting to see if he’ll go out fighting for the things he believes in (Medicare expansion, fracking taxes, etc.) or if he’ll end up pinned under the bus he promised would run over those who disagreed with him.

  42. 42.

    debbie

    @efgoldman:

    Many in the Ohio GOP leadership are thinking about running against Sherrod (DeWine, the AG, for one). Many also want to be governor . It’ll be like a scrum of piranha!

  47. 47.

    bystander

    I tried listening to network news this morning, but it was too infuriating. They were pretty clear that Trump is directly contradicting our intelligence agencies, but, for the life of them, the reason Trump is siding with Putin is unclear. I only have to bring up the “what if Clinton appeared to be colluding with Putin” scenario to know that the network hacks’ endless ability to make groundless speculation somehow fails them when reporting on Trump.

  48. 48.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @bystander:

    to know that the network hacks’ endless ability to make groundless speculation somehow fails them when reporting on Trump.

    Reporting what Trump says is all the groundless speculation they can get into a broadcast.

  49. 49.

    Kay

    @debbie:

    The lone Democrat holding an Ohio statewide office said Tuesday he is considering stepping down from his post at year’s end to run for governor.
    In an Associated Press interview, Ohio Supreme Court Justice William O’Neill said he will delay a formal decision about leaving the bench to see if any other “truly competitive” Democratic gubernatorial candidate emerges.
    “I want to see whether or not the Ohio Democratic Party learned anything in 2016,” said O’Neill, a lawyer, registered nurse and U.S. Army veteran who joined the high court in 2013. “There are a lot of people saying, ‘Hey, I want to run for governor,’ but I haven’t heard anybody come up with any concrete proposals for what they would do if they became governor. No one’s coming up with any solutions.”
    The justice said he plans a statewide listening tour to discuss nine key policy planks he hopes to see embraced by the party. Those include legalizing marijuana, halving college tuitions within five years, building a high-speed rail line between Cleveland and Cincinnati, and eliminating for-profit charter schools. He also wants to promote solar development, reopen state mental hospitals to help address the heroin epidemic, reinstitute taxes on trust funds and boost the minimum wage to $15.

    Ohio judges are age-limited and O’Neill will be too old to run for judge again. I helped with his first campaign for the supreme court- he lost that time- he’s the “no money from nobody” judge. He was a common pleas judge at that time and he made campaign flyers in his garage on a little press. They had this blurry b and w line drawing of him and no one reads anything anyway, so when I would hand them to people at parades I would say “vote for Judge O’Neill for supreme court” and they would say “thanks, judge- good luck”

    He sent a personal letter to each of the county chairs about running for governor. I saw one. Very nice letter.

    He’s controversial though. The bar once tried to discipline him for saying Ohio supreme court justices were influenced by the campaign donations they take and he sued in federal court on First Amendment grounds and won.

  50. 50.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @Kay:

    The bar once tried to discipline him for saying Ohio supreme court justices were influenced by the campaign donations they take and he sued in federal court on First Amendment grounds and won.

    Who would’ve guessed that an organization of lawyers would try to suppress the truth? ;-)

    (best lawyer joke I can come up with at the moment)

  51. 51.

    JMG

    @Kay: That’s controversial? Given the general public opinion of lawyers and the legal system, I would think it had been a very popular stance, politically speaking.

  52. 52.

    Jeffro

    @OzarkHillbilly: Me and Fro Jr are in Frisco TX for the JMU-Youngstown State championship game today…it was 70° here a few days ago and it will be 70° again in a few days but in the meantime the game temperature is expected to be below freezing.

    I hear layering helps? That’s gonna be a LOT of layers…

  53. 53.

    Tenar Arha (same Tenar, more Nameless Ones)

    /sigh
    Heavy snow supposed to start soon (earlier than initially forecast). Wanted to try to catch Hidden Figures today & up their opening Friday/Saturday numbers.Tomorrow after shoveling.

  54. 54.

    Kay

    @JMG:

    There’s a never-used ethics rule that says “impugning the credibility of the tribunal” is an ethics violation- the state supreme court regulates lawyers, he attacked the state supreme court, they got mad, basically. It’s obviously protected political speech under the First Amendment, so he sued and won.

    At the time he said it the NYTimes had just published an analysis of OH supreme court justices where they traced campaign contributions to rulings:

    In examination of the Ohio Supreme Court by The New York Times found that its justices routinely sat on cases after receiving campaign contributions from the parties involved or from groups that filed supporting briefs. On average, they voted in favor of contributors 70 percent of the time. Justice O’Donnell voted for his contributors 91 percent of the time, the highest rate of any justice on the court.
    In the 12 years that were studied, the justices almost never disqualified themselves from hearing their contributors’ cases. In the 215 cases with the most direct potential conflicts of interest, justices recused themselves just 9 times.

  55. 55.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @Jeffro: 2 of the worst winter storms I ever had to drive thru were in TX. 1 in the panhandle (talk about howling wind) and the other coming north out of Mexico. We we’re finally forced to spend the night at a motel in Dallas (I was dead broke after 2 weeks in Mexico and had to sneak in). Ice, ice, and more ice, then snow, and really cold after warm sunny Mexico.

  56. 56.

    JMG

    The weather service has given itself plenty of wiggle room for the snowstorm here later today and tonight. Forecast for my town calls for between 4 to 10 inches of snow.

  57. 57.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @Kay:

    On average, they voted in favor of contributors 70 percent of the time. Justice O’Donnell voted for his contributors 91 percent of the time, the highest rate of any justice on the court.

    Is it any wonder Republicans here want to end Missouri’s well known and much admired non-partisan judicial appointment system?

  58. 58.

    Elmo

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    If I can’t fix it with a framing hammer, I’ll fix it for good with a framing hammer.

    I would ask you to marry me, but two people with that same inclination together is probably not healthy.

  60. 60.

    Kay

    @JMG:

    I liked him for supreme court because he’s a liberal but he’s also an RN. A nurse. I think they need diversity of experience. Judges tend to have the same type of experience- they are people who started on Track A and just go in a straight line to “judge”. Justice Kagan agrees with me. She held a forum on it once. I think we’d have fewer decisions like the SCOTUS decision where the justices could not imagine someone not having ID. One of their examples was “you can’t board a plane” without ID- that’s not true- you CAN board a plane without ID- but it’s just this narrowness, where they believe everyone “boards airplanes”. A lot of people have never been on an airplane in their lives. They’re like racehorses judging the whole horse population. You need some horses who pull wagons too :)

  61. 61.

    hovercraft

    @Morzer:
    I think Fox is the designated shitgibbon troll, he has been brutal towards him from the get-go. You can’t have a sitting president trolling people on twitter, oh ….. Anyhoo, we are the greatest nation on earth, and if we want to “elect” a troll as the next leader of the free word we will dammit. Now will someone out there put a leash on Fox, his tweets are unbecoming of someone who was president.

  63. 63.

    Kay

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    The counterargument against appointment rather than election is you end up with a “narrow” judiciary- they all come from the same places- elite schools to big firms or prosecutors. Ohio has this (maybe romanticized) notion that their state bar is egalitarian- big firm lawyers AND little guys, all equal. The idea is appointed judges come from a narrow pool, that elections “open it up” and let someone like O’Neill run and win.

    That’s the argument anyway. I can’t decide :)

  64. 64.

    debbie

    @Kay:

    Yes, I like O’Neill and I remember his lawsuit and that it was successful. I think he’d make a fine governor, but I worry about the judiciary which is filled with hacks like Marilyn French and Maureen O’Connor. I hope when he’s doing all this listening, O’Neill hears about Democratic candidates to replace him.

  65. 65.

    chris

    @JMG: Eastern US? I’m a little further east and they’re giving a foot plus starting around four pm. Merry Second Christmas to all!

  66. 66.

    Spanky

    @JMG: Just for the record, you just said exactly what I was going to post. Hell, I’d run on that if I were him.

  68. 68.

    taras

    @ThresherK:
    My father is Ukrainian and we celebrate this Christmas every year, but we would also get our presents on December 25th.
    Some interesting things about the 12 course meal, there is no meat, no dairy, no eggs. And the courses are something like, borscht, another course is raw garlic and salt, another is pickled herring. And before every course, everyone is supposed to do a shot, in our house, we would do shots of whiskey. My father says it is to irrigate the crops for the farmers and make sure there is enough water for the fisherman.
    There is another course called kutia, which is barley and honey, and the man of the house takes a spoonful and flicks it up on the ceiling; the more that sticks, the more good luck the family will have in the upcoming year. So it is essential for the cook to get the right texture of the barley and honey so that a lot would stick.
    And finally, at the end of the meal, there is a candle burning in the center of the table, again the man of the house extinguishes it with his finger and if the smoke goes up, there is supposed to be a marriage in the family, into the family room, a baptism (birth) in the family, and out the door, a death.
    A lot of pagan superstitions that were incorporated when Christianity was brought to Kiev-Rus.

  69. 69.

    ruemara

    @Kay: I like him already. I don’t know all his positions, but what he’s saying is the truth. You can’t field candidates if no one wants to run. So get up there and run.

  71. 71.

    Blueskies

    Finally got around to reading some of the All-your-bases-are-belong-to-Putin report and reporting thereof.

    I conclude that nobody with any upper level security clearance could not have known that this was happening. This begs the question: Why is Comey a free man?

  72. 72.

    JPL

    It is 21 and the wind chill makes it feel like 10.. I tried to take a few pictures and my hands froze, and came back inside to find gloves.

  75. 75.

    hovercraft

    @Baud:

    unto Baud the things that are Baud’s.

    Could you clarify which things are yours. I wish to remain loyal,and render unto you, all that you deserve. I already have the little ones working on 2020 posters.

    THE END IS NIGH

    VOTE

    BAUD 2020

    Help Him Restore Sanity to America

  76. 76.

    Kay

    @debbie:

    Right, but he can’t run for justice again. He’s aged out. There’s a lot of opposition to him in the Democratic Party because he’s so prickly and hard to get along with. Maybe he’s changed his ways- his letter to the county chairs was very conciliatory.

    They like Connie Pillich (I do too) but I don’t know about running a woman in this state. I think the sexism I heard in Trump v Clinton is underappreciated as a factor in that race. I know political media have decreed we may not mention this, but I know what I heard. They were resistant to a woman President. I canvassed and I know there was a lot of it out there.

    It won’t matter if Cordray runs. He’ll be the overwhelming favorite on the D side. He’s extremely competitive as a person. Really, really focused. He’s also scary smart. He was a great AG and I’d love him as governor. He could beat a Republican. He’s in DC now- the CFPB- but Congressional Republicans are trying to remove him. They say the President appoints the CFPB director and Cordray says the job is a term of years. Cordray lost the first round on that in court about a month ago, so maybe he’ll come back to Ohio and run.

  78. 78.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @Kay: Yeah, I’ve heard that, but this being a state that is now firmly and completely under the control of the GOP tells me one of 2 things will happen: Either they will suddenly develop a severe case of amnesia, or they will blatantly sell the SC to the highest bidder. Time will tell.

  79. 79.

    bemused

    @bystander:

    My husband and I just bitching about msnbc while waiting for AM Joy. Reporter didn’t push back against Hugh Hewitt’s spin that Obama didn’t take Putin seriously and other BS.We both agreed that we know that the Russian hacking isn’t about changing the votes, that Trump is just trying to deflect from his defense of Putin and we don’t remember msm telling us that Russians hacked RNC as well as Dems.

  80. 80.

    Corner Stone

    AMJoy has a Murderer’s Row on for her first panel.

    I could easily watch an hour of this each Sat and Sun.

  81. 81.

    hovercraft

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    Obama gives Trump a nice “Welcome to the White House” gift, unlike the steaming pile of fecal matter left on the White House steps by his predecessor.

    It will be amazing watching people who have trashed the economy for the last 8 years suddenly start praising it and taking credit for it, while the press sits by and lets then take credit for it. The only possible silver lining is that we are way overdue for a recession, if they claim ownership of the positives they are inheriting, then when it goes to hell, they own it. In 2012 voters still blamed Bush more than Obama for the economy, the bad taste he left in everyone’s mouth lingered long after he was gone, Likewise most people will credit Obama for the slow but steady improvements to the economy, the shitgibbon will own the downturn among most voters. All the democrats have to do is throw the job numbers in their faces. Then again, the new administration could just stop releasing the job numbers because they are skewed against our new leader. We can track the employment by press release, companies can announce new and or saved job numbers that do not have to be real or verified.

  82. 82.

    hovercraft

    @JPL: Are you talking about our Baud?

    Everything’s relative, right?

    Compared to what’s coming in 13 days, Baud would be a huuge step up.

  83. 83.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @Kay: Also, it is not true that we do not vote for or against the appellate and SC judges. We do, when they run to retain their seat. It is an up or down vote, no one is running against them. The only way somebody knows if they are a good judge or not is the state Bar will give a recommendation based on evaluations from lawyers who have appeared before them. I like that because how am I an idiot carpenter going to know if a judge is good and fair? If 99% of the lawyers (from both sides of the cases) feel they were good judges, it’s pretty safe to say they were. (Of course, I’m probably one of 17 people in the entire state to actually go to the trouble of looking that info up)

    The process of getting on the courts is where they are appointed.

    As to which system is better, I have 2 words: Roy Moore.

  84. 84.

    Kay

    @hovercraft:

    It is hard because I don’t care what Trump Rustbeltians say, the economy in this county is humming. I’m as busy as I have ever been. I’m gonna have a good year, in terms of revenue. It’s not just me. The whole county is cranking along. I’m to the point where I’m waiting for the slow down. We’re auto industry dependent and there was pent up demand. They’re probably reaching max on that. People bitch that real estate values haven’t gone up but that’s bullshit in the rust belt. Real estate values here move in a narrow range. They don’t “go up” like in the east and west, ever.

    Most of my clients are working people- hourly. They’re all working a ton of hours. My middle son is skilled trades and he has not had more than one day off between jobs for months and months- between the job one contractor finishes and lets him go and the next contractor picks him up. One day is really fast turnaround for them.

  85. 85.

    Botsplainer

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    If I can’t fix it with a framing hammer, I’ll fix it for good with a framing hammer.

    If you’re like me, there is a dialogue with the thing that is being fixed for good with a framing hammer. Often, Mr Pry Bar makes an appearance as well.

  86. 86.

    debbie

    @Kay:

    I have always loved Cordray and couldn’t believe Husted beat him. I would like Cordray as Gov, Pillach as Lt. Gov, and O’Neill in Portman’s seat (O’Neill needs practice working with others and not decreeing from the bench).

  90. 90.

    Corner Stone

    I took a few minutes yesterday to make a sandwich so I may have missed it. But did Trump hold a presser and divulge all the new info only he has about the Russia hacks?

  92. 92.

    hovercraft

    @bystander:

    for the life of them, the reason Trump is siding with Putin is unclear.

    “It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it!”
    I give you the immortal words of Upton Sinclair.
    They fear the backlash that would ensue if they came out and called him Putin’s useful idiot. They’ve been bending over backwards for decades to “prove” that they are not in fact liberal, the shitgibbon knows that the branding has stuck, so he exploits it to bamboozle everyone. They will not call him and his minions on it , they are trained to be mealy mouthed both sides do it parrots.

  93. 93.

    Brachiator

    @Kay:

    I think they need diversity of experience. Judges tend to have the same type of experience- they are people who started on Track A and just go in a straight line to “judge”.

    I agree with you, but this could be life experience or intellectual curiosity or wisdom, not just a different resume.

    Justice Kagan’s father was an attorney. Kagan’s grew up on New York’s Upper West Side. Kagan’s went to Princeton, Oxford, Harvard Law. Kagan clerked for a Supreme Court justice. On paper, her credentials are much like her predecessors (White Bread Certified), and might suggest that she was just another cookie cutter elitist.

    But the details of her life and life experience also matter, and how it shaped how she looks at the world.

  94. 94.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @Kay: I don’t recall the full details of the appointment process but as best I remember people who want to sit on the appellates or SC submit an application with full bio etc to a panel from the Bar The Bar goes thru all the candidates then comes up with (via a vote I presume) the 5 most qualified applicants. This is passed to the Governor and he picks one from the bunch. I can not recall for certain if there is a confirmation vote by either state house, but I think not.

  95. 95.

    Kay

    @debbie:

    (O’Neill needs practice working with others and not decreeing from the bench).

    Hah! “Judge” is horrible practice for “working with others”. They’re like Kings! And Queens! I love his blistering dissents but this is what he is- he’s a rabble rouser. It’s okay. Democrats need more happy warriors. There are people who truly enjoy fighting. Harry Reid is one. It doesn’t bother them like it bothers other people- they simply don’t care if you like them and they can be oddly likable – I usually get a kick out of them.

  99. 99.

    Kay

    @Brachiator:

    Sure, and that’s part of the discussion. I really admire Kagan. I respect her for discussing it so openly.

    “We’re not as diverse as some would like in many important characteristics — educational institutions, religion, places where we come from,” Justice Sotomayor said on Thursday at a judicial conference here.
    Justice Kagan, speaking on Wednesday at the University of Arizona in Tucson, said the court may suffer from what she called a “coastal perspective,” The Arizona Daily Star reported. (She is from New York City. As is Justice Sotomayor. As is Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg. As was Justice Scalia. Between the four of them, they represented every borough but Staten Island.)

    I think they’re also questioning the “elite educational institutions” piece, which is healthy. There are giant public universities in the US and some of them are very good schools. It is narrow that they all come from 2 or 3 private schools. Historically this wasn’t the case. I don’t know if you remember this, but Justice O’Connor used to refer constantly to her time in a state legislature. It set her apart. It could use a little shaking up- it’s become a “track”, IMO.

  100. 100.

    hovercraft

    Trolling is contagious

    If Obama is a Muslim, is Trump a Russian spy?

    By Kathleen Parker
    January 6 at 7:27 PM

    First, a history refresher: For the past nine years, a smattering of Americans, most recently led by our now president-elect, have insisted that Barack Obama is a Muslim born in Kenya.

    For years, Donald Trump was unrelenting in his insistence that Obama prove beyond existing proof that he was born in Hawaii and not in the African country of his biological father. That Obama said he is a Christian wasn’t enough to persuade Trump’s followers, who apparently know a Christian when they see one.

    Further, there is no logical basis for assuming that a young person briefly raised in a given country — say, Indonesia — necessarily would adopt the dominant religion of that country. He might, however, observe that though people worship in different ways, we’re all essentially the same. Never mind the cruel and absurd assumption that being a Muslim means that one is, ipso facto, a “bad person.”

    Respecting others despite differences is, generally speaking, the hallmark of an enlightened soul, as well as a desirable disposition in a leader. Yet, those who sided with Trump interpreted Obama’s gentle touch toward the world’s 1.6 billion Muslims as evidence of a hidden agenda to advance Islam in the United States — notwithstanding Obama’s rather robust drone operations, which eliminated quite a few bad actors who happened to be, or said they were, Muslims.

    Noteworthy is that these same Obama doubters weren’t bestirred to suspicion when then-President George W. Bush visited a mosque immediately after 9/11. Nor, thus far, have they expressed any concern about Trump’s cavalier approach to Russia’s cyberattack on the United States.

    Given this history and recent evidence, isn’t it about time Trump be declared a Russian spy?

    No, I don’t really think he’s a spy because, unlike the man himself, I’m not given to crazy ideas. But what’s with this double standard? Under similar circumstances, how long do you think it would have taken for Obama to be called a traitor for defending a country that tried to thwart our democratic electoral process?

    Seconds.

    How surreal to realize that the man who soon will become president was long committed to a rumor soaked in paranoia and propagated by conspiracy theorists whose pursuit of truth stops at the point where facts and willful ignorance collide.

    How perfectly terrifying.

    And now? What is so obviously a conspiracy of Russian leadership, hackers and spies, Trump has repeatedly dismissed as lousy intelligence. Why would he do such a thing? Is it that he’s so thin-skinned he can’t tolerate anyone thinking that he might have benefited from the cyberattack? Or is it that he knew about it in advance and doesn’t want to be found out? This is how conspiracy theories get started. Then again, sometimes a conspiracy is just a conspiracy — and a fool is just a fool.

    Consider what we know: Our best intelligence indicates that Russia was behind the hacking of the Democratic National Committee. Trump, who has long expressed admiration for Russian President Vladimir Putin (once a KGB agent, always a KGB agent), has his doubts.

    Obviously, Trump wants to preserve the narrative that he won fair and square. And, clearly, claims of Russian interference would muss his ego. But is that it? Ego and narrative?

    Consider further: Trump would rather make common cause with our fiercest geopolitical adversary (hat tip Mitt Romney) than take the word of our best people. Moreover, he has said he won’t receive daily security briefings and reportedly plans to reduce our security agencies.

    Pray tell, whose side is this man on? When was the last time you had to ask that question about a president-elect?

    On Friday, Trump met with real American spies and others who attempted to explain things to him, leaving open the question: Can Trump learn? From his statement following the meeting, it doesn’t seem so.

    On Thursday, James R. Clapper Jr., the director of national intelligence, told the Senate Armed Services Committee that the agency is “now even more resolute,” and that Trump is damaging American intelligence (not to be confused with the absence thereof, to wit, Trump). To top things off, former CIA director James Woolsey quit Trump’s transition team Thursday in protest against being bypassed.

    In sum, when the president-elect persists in a state of denial, siding with the enemy against his own country’s best interests, one is forced to consider that Trump himself poses a threat to national security.

    In Russia, they’d just call it treason.

  101. 101.

    frosty

    Agenda – marking the end of the (un)religious Christmas holiday: Taking the lights down, putting the ornaments etc. away, putting the wrapping paper away, vacuuming ,,, and sweeping … and getting down on hands and knees to pick up the pine needles.

    Sweeping last night’s snow off the driveway and cars.

    Will read the rest of the comments now and see how far off topic I am. :-)

  102. 102.

    chris

    @hovercraft: “Marine Le Pen described Russian President Vladimir Putin as a “defender of the Christian heritage of European civilisation.”

    That’s from Wikipedia’s National Front page. The whole thing is scary but para and the one following, on Russian bank loans to the NF, are really interesting. Yes, Virginia there is a Vast Rightwing Conspiracy. And it’s run by the Kremlin.

    Edited, damn blockquote! I’ll get you one day.

  103. 103.

    GregB

    Relessing his tax returns will go a long way toward proving Trump is not a Russian spy.

    Until that time I think I have settled on what to call Russian Spy Trump.

  106. 106.

    charluckles

    I’ve had a strange occurrence this morning. I come from one of the reddest most working class states in the Union. My childhood friends and I share very little when it comes to politics, but we maintain our relationship over other interests. Today these guys were all fired up about a cartoon meme making light of people with college degrees in humanities. I know big surprise, but the “protagonist” in this was a working class person who was very explicitly pro-union. What was even more surprising was how pro-union and pro-pride in a working class job a lot of the chatter was. For the most part these fellas fit the definition of temporarily embarrassed millionaires.

  107. 107.

    Corner Stone

    The R’s only message for 8+ years has been “Obstruct”. They had no other message. Only opposition.
    Why do the D’s so desperately need to have an alternative message that reaches out to those voters we didn’t connect with last time?

  109. 109.

    MomSense

    @p.a.:

    That’s why god invented bread bags dontcha know. School children all across America can get on the school bus with bread bags over their cardboard shoes. For Jesus and America.

  111. 111.

    Corner Stone

    @O. Felix Culpa: I love AMJoy. And I keep the mute button close.

    I wish we had both AMJoy and the MHP show back. Learned more from the very varied guests MHP used to invite on. And Joy is the best interviewer on air, and hands down the best at MSNBC. Only Tamron Hall comes close.

  112. 112.

    hovercraft

    @chris:

    The thing they all have in common is their xenophobia, the movements are all about pushing back against “others”, the global recession helped to empower them, when people are insecure they look for scapegoats. Putin has played the long game well, most of us in the west dismissed the RWNJ’s as just that, the fringe. He funded them and helped them disrupt our nations, but the difference is that they are still a minority over here, and while they shocked us this time, we will not be surprised again. We have the numbers, we just need to get our shit together, and we can overcome this huge setback.

  113. 113.

    hovercraft

    @Corner Stone:
    She moved to I think West Virginia, or maybe it’s Kentucky, and has immersed herself in “real America”, she has heard their voices. The democratic party needs to do so too, stop living and listening to coastal elites who don’t understand the concerns of real America.

  114. 114.

    frosty

    @Botsplainer:

    Often, Mr Pry Bar makes an appearance as well.

    Ah, my two favorite tools, a 3 lb hammer and a wrecking bar. Demolition ensues!

    OK, OK, add a Sawzall if things get stubborn.

  117. 117.

    hovercraft

    Making America Sick Again, Indeed

    by D.R. Tucker January 7, 2017 11:00 AM

    Do you remember when Rush Limbaugh insisted that the Affordable Care Act was a form of reparations?

    As silly as this argument sounds, it’s quite likely that many Republican members of the House and Senate actually believe this, which explains why the GOP has been so vigilant about trying to obliterate Obamacare. In the right-wing mind, the Affordable Care Act is little more than a politically correct handout to the undeserving; House and Senate Republicans cannot stand the thought of the folks Ronald Reagan viciously smeared as “welfare queens” and “young bucks” having access to decent, even semi-decent, health care.

    You may recall the Denzel Washington film John Q, which was released just a month before Washington won the Best Actor Oscar for his iconic performance in Training Day. Washington also merited a nomination for John Q, in which he played a working-class, destitute African-American man desperate to obtain a heart transplant for his sick son. The film’s plot was generally regarded as somewhat far-fetched when it was released; the late Roger Ebert, despite agreeing with the film’s message that “the richest nation in history should be able to afford national health insurance,” declared that the picture was “so earnest, so overwrought and so wildly implausible that it begs to be parodied.” Of course, had John Q been released today, Washington and director Nick Cassavetes would be assailed on Twitter for “playing the race card” and making “leftist propaganda” to advance the cause of “socialized medicine.”

    There will be a lot of “John Qs,” of all colors and backgrounds, who will be severely screwed if Republicans eviscerate the Affordable Care Act. Some of those “John Qs” may have voted for Trump and Republican House and Senate candidates; God help them, because the GOP certainly won’t. Will the US mainstream media–specifically our broadcast and cable entities–report on the “John Qs” whose families are destroyed in the aftermath of the Affordable Care Act’s repeal? Or would that be considered a form of “liberal bias”?

    You may also recall when former Rep. Alan Grayson accurately analyzed the Republican vision on health care: VIDEO

    How can any rational mind deny the sociopathic nature of the Republican Party and the larger conservative movement after bearing witness to this obsession with stripping health care protections from millions of vulnerable Americans? The GOP is indeed a “pro-life” entity; if you’re of the right background, the party will support your right to live. If not, sucks to be you!

    I’m sure many of these right-wingers consider themselves good Christians. They’re surely praying that the effort to repeal the Affordable Care Act is successful. That’s one pathetic prayer, no? After witnessing this sad effort to screw over their fellow Americans, it seems obvious that if Jesus Christ did in fact come back today, and called for health care to be provided to every American…and also called for all men and women created in God’s image to be treated equally under the law…and also called for the Earth God created to be protected from pollution…these right-wingers would, in all likelihood, tell him to go to hell.

  118. 118.

    Kay

    @Corner Stone:

    Because there are thousands of paid Democratic operatives and pundits who have to say something on cable?

    Because there’s a huge intersect between them and political media and they think they have to respond to every fucking thing anyone says?

    I was sick of the postmortem about 9 minutes after the race was called and it’s only gotten dumber since then.

  120. 120.

    ruemara

    Glad it’s not just me wanting to push Krystal Ball into a meat locker.

    Listening to Ellison. I agree with him on voter suppression, but Perez has talked about ways he wants to improve things. I’m waiting for Ellison’s plans.

  121. 121.

    hovercraft

    @Baud:
    Not necessarily, the second time around you could adopt @O. Felix Culpa: ‘s slogan,

    Baud! 2024! A better brand of insanity.

    ETA: You could always just add her to your ticket:

    BAUD and BALL
    Coastal and Rural , We’ve Got You Covered!!

  122. 122.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @frosty: Don’t forget the demo saw. (I love that page- the Patriot Contractors Equipment Sales and Supply complete with a Minute Man logo selling Swedish tools- AMERICA! FUCK YEAH!!!)

  124. 124.

    Corner Stone

    @Baud: Joy pushed back on her BS “reach out” message and asked her to explain Bevin in KY then. He campaigned on taking away their insurance and they still elected him, explain that. And KB completely whiffed on it by saying they were all going to realize they have been had. And we need to educate them on the truth.
    I’m telling you, it’s like she’s got a product to sell or some shit. Maybe she’s writing a book about to come out or something.

  125. 125.

    FlipYrWhig

    @Corner Stone: Liberals in media fancy themselves experts at “framing” and “narrative,” so they always think political problems can be solved with framing and narrative. I blame Lakoff.

  127. 127.

    Corner Stone

    And that fucking blabby faced sweatball that is D consultant Chris Kofinis, sheesh. “Their message! What is their message? I still don’t know what their message is!?”
    STFU, you sweat more than Nixon.

  128. 128.

    JPL

    @hovercraft: Parker wrote that before Trump’s latest tweets in support of Russia

    Having a good relationship with Russia is a good thing, not a bad thing. Only “stupid” people, or fools, would think that it is bad! We…..

  132. 132.

    FlipYrWhig

    @hovercraft: Virtually everyone who opposes Obamacare thinks it’s a giveaway to black and brown people, like “Obamaphones.” This is why it polls poorly even while its parts poll well: because no pollster asks about what the haters think it is. Every rank and file Republican is a Republican because they resent “welfare.”

  133. 133.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @Iowa Old Lady: The force that holds the world together and the one that keeps it quiet. I would also add baling wire and aluminum foil. (the bw once held a broken exhaust manifold more or less together thru 20miles of really bad road and another 150 of good road, while the foil kept my plug wires from melting.)

    edited for clarity

  134. 134.

    hovercraft

    The Stepford Network: A News Empire Bows to Trump and the GOP

    by D.R. Tucker January 7, 2017 7:00 AM

    You know it’s only a matter of time, don’t you?

    The news that NBCUniversal is bringing Fox News Channel refugees Megyn Kelly and Greta Van Susteren on board means only one thing: the expedited elimination of any NBCUniversal media voice that displeases Republicans.

    Just because Kelly had that little squabble with Donald Trump a while back doesn’t mean that, in her new position, Kelly will not show shameless bias towards the Republican worldview, the same shameless bias she exhibited during her ignoble tenure in the House that Rupert and Roger Built. (Note that Kelly claims she’s now on good terms with Trump.) Van Susteren may be viewed in some quarters as a figure who has exhibited less inanity than Sean Hannity, but there’s no question where her sympathies ultimately lie as well.

    The hiring of Kelly and Van Susteren is a clear signal by NBCUniversal management that in their view, Democrats don’t watch their network and cable outlets, and that money and prestige can be found in flattering GOP power players, something these Fox figures are experts at. As progressive radio star Thom Hartmann has noted, over the past year or so NBC Universal’s cable-news channel, MSNBC, has been turning itself into what he calls the “cloth-coat Republican network”; with the hiring of Van Susteren at MSNBC, that cloth coat will be a deep, dark shade of red.

    I wouldn’t bet against MSNBC hosts Chris Hayes, Rachel Maddow, Lawrence O’Donnell and Joy Reid being purged from the network by year’s end. (I’m surprised that as of this writing, Trump has not yet attacked Maddow on Twitter for her outstanding coverage(1) last night(2) of the intelligence report on Russian President Vladimir Putin’s efforts to secure Trump’s success in last year’s presidential election, or Michael Moore’s call for an anti-Trump resistance on O’Donnell’s program.) Their accomplishments will not protect them: after all, it was six years ago this month that Keith Olbermann, MSNBC’s franchise quarterback, was unceremoniously cut from the team after reportedly running afoul of management. Hayes, Maddow, O’Donnell and Reid simply don’t fit into NBCUniversal’s apparent game plan; when Maddow laments the fact that Republican main-eventers are reluctant to appear on her show, one can envision NBCUniversal execs saying, “Well, there’s one way to remedy that…”

    Salon’s Heather Digby Parton recently noted that Hayes and Maddow “…take an adversarial position against right wing [nonsense]”; I would argue that it is precisely because they take an adversarial position against such nonsense that they may not be around much longer. When Maddow interviewed Van Susteren on Thursday, viewers witnessed a symbolic changing of the guard; though Maddow was gracious as always, and clearly has respect for Van Susteren, it was also unnerving to realize that Van Susteren will never scrutinize Trump and the Republican Party the way Maddow has.

    Trump may profess to be angry with NBCUniversal’s news outlets now, but that anger will quickly subside, because with its recent hires, NBCUniversal has chosen sides. They will be sure not to offend King Donald or his party again anytime soon. To quote that old Waitresses song, these executives “know what guys want” on their cable and broadcast news: nothing but blonde, bland Republican fans…….

    ——————————————————————————————————————————————————–

    The 1 and 2 are two separate clips from last nights show.
    I don’t think they will get rid of the prime time lineup, but since this is a brave new world, anything can happen. I no longer watch, but the fact that they are out there is a good thing that should be preserved.

  135. 135.

    FlipYrWhig

    @Corner Stone: The message was pretty clearly inclusiveness and equality, administered by someone tough, smart, and practical. You can say that’s not a bulletproof message but you can’t say it’s not a message.

  137. 137.

    Suzanne

    Good morning, all. Happy weekend,

    We have a birthday party for Spawn the Younger today, so that will take up most of the afternoon. Should be a good time. Then Mr. Suzanne is taking me out for dinner and cocktails tonight. Tomorrow, we are going to the finals of the Bösendorfer piano competition.

    My building is only about three months away from being done. It feels a little weird. I’ve been working on it every day for over two years. It will be weird to release it into the world.

  138. 138.

    Corner Stone

    @hovercraft: I don’t know why I was watching TRMS the other night, as I avoid it most nights but this part:

    When Maddow interviewed Van Susteren on Thursday, viewers witnessed a symbolic changing of the guard; though Maddow was gracious as always, and clearly has respect for Van Susteren

    Was not an interview so much as it was an overwrought and lingering tongue bath by Maddow.

  139. 139.

    hovercraft

    @JPL:
    Yes.

    Sheesh, I just took a look at his latest rants, defensive much?

    Donald J. Trump ‏@realDonaldTrump 5h5 hours ago
    Intelligence stated very strongly there was absolutely no evidence that hacking affected the election results. Voting machines not touched!

    Donald J. Trump ‏@realDonaldTrump 5h5 hours ago
    Only reason the hacking of the poorly defended DNC is discussed is that the loss by the Dems was so big that they are totally embarrassed!

    Donald J. Trump ‏@realDonaldTrump 2h2 hours ago
    Having a good relationship with Russia is a good thing, not a bad thing. Only “stupid” people, or fools, would think that it is bad! We…..

    Donald J. Trump ‏@realDonaldTrump 2h2 hours ago
    have enough problems around the world without yet another one. When I am President, Russia will respect us far more than they do now and….

    Donald J. Trump ‏@realDonaldTrump 1h1 hour ago
    both countries will, perhaps, work together to solve some of the many great and pressing problems and issues of the WORLD!

  141. 141.

    FlipYrWhig

    @hovercraft: Why would someone “respect” a person this easy to manipulate and this eager to please? I thought Trump’s theory of respect was about toughness, not about ingratiation.

  144. 144.

    Corner Stone

    @FlipYrWhig: Hold on, I’m having trouble hearing you…did you say, “The message was pretty clearly welfare, queers and blacks, administered by someone crooked, deceitful, and female. You can say that’s not a message.”

  145. 145.

    JPL

    @hovercraft: ABC/GMA mentioned that Trump was more concerned with NBC’s report, than he was on the hack itself. The reporter then said, we will continue to cover and report this development.
    It was a not so veiled threat to Trump. At least that was how I interpreted the message.

  149. 149.

    gene108

    @hovercraft:

    They’ve been bending over backwards for decades to “prove” that they are not in fact liberal,

    I think the MSM is rather conservative to begin with. They do not need to work to avoid being truly liberal. They were never really liberal to begin with.

    They just had a moment 45-50 years ago, when they were somewhat honest that those in power were not perfect and for better or worse the person in power happened to be Nixon, a Republican.

    So Republicans went after the MSM hard, creating their own fake news publications like The Washington Times and American Spectator . The real problem with the MSM is the treated these publications as actual news outlets, rather than the propaganda outlets they really are.

    So by the time Clinton roles into the Presidency, they are repeating “news” from these propaganda outlets, without question and it has carried on to this day.

  151. 151.

    debbie

    @hovercraft:

    both countries will, perhaps, work together to solve some of the many great and pressing problems and issues of the WORLD!

    Like getting Vlad to cancel my debt. Joy!

  152. 152.

    Yarrow

    I wonder if Bezos is interested in setting up an alternate news network. He did buy the Washington Post. There’s a market out there for a news network that isn’t pro-Trump. Bezos does know how to find or create markets and then fill them.

  154. 154.

    Kathleen

    @debbie: I thought I just read somewhere that Kasich was touring the state touting Medicaid expansion. I think he’ll stick to his strategy of presenting himself as the “kinder, gentler, sane” Republican option and he’s banking on the party imploding and him emerging victorious. Though he’s lost quite a few battles he may ultimately win the war. He seems to enjoy popular support and I think there are business and political elements in the state who were tired of the Tea Party extremism and drama before Trump arrived on the scene and will be more unhappy with these latest developments so I think he has some allies we just don’t hear about. Just my opinion based on what I’ve heard and read here and there. He’s a pretty shrewd politician.

  158. 158.

    Brachiator

    @Kay:

    Historically this wasn’t the case. I don’t know if you remember this, but Justice O’Connor used to refer constantly to her time in a state legislature.

    O’Connor got her law degree from Stanford Law School, another elite institution, and she had served as Arizona Attorney General, but you are right about her also having served in the state Senate. I guess her background is rare for our very modern times. Earl Warren, going back further, had been governor of California. And I guess that the dominance of certain schools is a side effect of the historical formalization of legal training.

    But be careful what you wish for. Tea Party types are always going on about how the Supreme Court could use someone without a legal background. Might a president Trump be open to that suggestion?

  159. 159.

    Brachiator

    @hovercraft:

    both countries will, perhaps, work together to solve some of the many great and pressing problems and issues of the WORLD!

    Jesus! Thank God Trump is going to restore our historical friendship with Russia. It’s not like we ever had a relationship with England or France that was historically significant.

  160. 160.

    Another Scott

    @Blueskies:

    I conclude that nobody with any upper level security clearance could not have known that this was happening. This begs the question: Why is Comey a free man?

    A couple of nits:

    1) Just because someone has a clearance (S, TS, etc.) doesn’t mean they have the ability to see anything that they want of that classification level. “Need to know” also applies. Only people who were “on the case”, their superiors, and other people with the required clearance and the “need to know” would have known about it.

    2) Comey is a whole nother kettle of fish. I hope Jane Mayer or another similar reporter who can dig deep and not be distracted from getting the real story is working on it. Maybe we’ll know more in a year or so…

    Ultimately, what he did by talking to the press the way he did, twice, definitely had an effect on the election (according to the polls), but it would be hard to argue that he did more than violate procedures. I doubt he broke any laws (except possibly the Hatch Act). The 2012 modifications to the Hatch Act say:

    SEC. 4. HATCH ACT PENALTIES FOR FEDERAL EMPLOYEES.

    Chapter 73 of title 5, United States Code, is amended by striking section 7326 and inserting the following:
    “Sec. 7326. <<NOTE: 5 USC 7326.>> Penalties

    “An employee or individual who violates section 7323 or 7324 shall be subject to removal, reduction in grade, debarment from Federal employment for a period not to exceed 5 years, suspension, reprimand, or an assessment of a civil penalty not to exceed $1,000.”.

    If that’s the only penalty for federal employees (and it might not be – IANAL and haven’t read the whole bill and all the changes over time), then even if he violated the Hatch Act, he wouldn’t go to jail.

    FWIW.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  161. 161.

    Another Scott

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    As to which system is better, I have 2 words: Roy Moore.

    Werd.

    Normal people shouldn’t need to be experts on the law or legal philosophy or all the rest. And they have little way of knowing whether a judicial candidate is good and fair or not. We have elected representatives for good reasons, and one of those reasons is so that they and their teams can make considered judgments (which include political considerations) in appointing judges. When judges have to run for election, they (usually) have to run ads (which cost money) that by their very nature try to appeal to emotion, tribalism, and lots of other things besides qualifications and fairness.

    Judges have no business being elected by direct vote.

    Someone here, IIRC, has argued that even trial-by-jury is an abomination these days. I don’t know if I’d go that far, but elected judges is too often a disaster. As shown most recently and most clearly in the case of Roy Moore.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  162. 162.

    J R in WV

    @Botsplainer:

    You guys using framing hammers to FIX things are punks.

    I use a hand sledge when something needs that kind of fixing – from 3 pound to 5 pound, depending on how sturdy built it is.

    Sometimes I also need a big cold chisel…

  163. 163.

    J R in WV

    @frosty:

    Alright, now we’re talking !! 3 lb hammer, big bar, sawzall, gonna FIX anything. Around here there are 66 inch “slate bars” used to bring down loose roof in the mines. Also to build fences, lift really a heavy thing a tiny bit, or tear shit down.

    Didn’t they arrest some guy attacking the Brooklyn Bridge with a sawzall? It could be done, with an infinite number of time, blades and a long extension cord.

  164. 164.

    dr. luba

    @Anne Laurie Thanks for the lovely version of Shchedryk. And while yes, today is Christmas in Ukraine, shchedrivky are New Year’s carols, which will be sung next weekend, on the old calendar new year.

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