Let’s say, merely for the sake of argument, that Donald Trump didn’t hire Russian prostitutes to urinate on the bed in a suite in a Moscow hotel. Of course, I think he did that and more. Exhibit A for the prosecution being him going out of the way to say that Hillary’s bathroom break in one of the Democratic debates was “too disgusting” to talk about. Classic projection.
Anyway, let’s say that it’s all bullshit, not a word of truth. I seem to remember another bullshit story that contained not one word-not even a phoneme-of truth: the notion that Barack Obama wasn’t born in the United States. Remember that steaming pantsload? It occupied years of the media interviewing scores of the mouth breathing rubes who believed it, and all of the carnival barkers who sold it. Every single “credible” media outlet that earned millions of clicks from that story knew it was completely, unquestionably false, yet profitable.
So why didn’t we hear about the Trump’s alleged piss fetish when it made the rounds (apparently) last October? It can’t be economics-Baby Jesus knows that America likes its clickbait warm and yellow. There’s even a real kompromat story here that is kind of a big deal – perhaps not as big as the recipes shared by John Podesta, but it certainly comes close. I don’t think the only reason is that they hated Hillary-certainly, deep in the drafty part of their chests that once housed their eternal souls, their hatred for Trump burns just as bright. Is it some odd species of cowardice? I really don’t understand it.
debbie
They were afraid they’d lose his followers.
Trentrunner
I think we need to look into whether Trumbert Trumbert was raping Ivanka when she was growing up.
Is it irresponsible to speculate? It is irresponsible not to.
cosima
Phuck all of those butt-hurt media assholes who thought that Obama hadn’t been properly deferential & forthcoming with them who then took their frustrations out on HRC.
They deserve the reaming that they’ve got coming to them from the shitgibbon.
Too bad it’s the citizens that bear the brunt of it. Which makes me hate them all the more.
NotMax
Worst Bowie song ever.
p.a.
Really? or snark? I think they realize they are in actual physical danger of crossing the right. Fascists don’t just cancel subscriptions.
Major Major Major Major
mistermix, given how strong your opinions are about the direction of the party, I’m surprised you aren’t instead linking to the currently-happening forum for the DNC chair candidates. http://m.dailykos.com/stories/1620505
JMG
@p.a.: No, that’s not it. They were told not to by their superiors.
LABiker
What’s the difference between a chickpea and a garbanzo bean? Trump never had a garbanzo bean on his face.
dr. bloor
CDS. Misogyny. Corporate barons and establishment Repubs deluding themselves into thinking the Tangerine Baboon was trainable, if not particularly educable.
Did I miss anything?
Baud
They have always been more deferential to the GOP. In truth there’s an argument that they did the right thing here and that it’s the way they cover Dems that is wrong.
Baud
@Major Major Major Major: There’s a part of me that hopes one of the dark horses gets the job.
Oatler.
The first rule of Pee Club is
MJS
What is “Blatant Racist Double Standard”, Alex?
MoeLarryAndJesus
@Oatler.: keep your mouth closed.
JPL
@Oatler.: We should send diapers to an organization that will distribute them to the needy in Trump’s name.
Major Major Major Major
@Baud: wouldn’t that be funny? But you know it’s going to be Ellison. I’m curious what the people who want to burn the place down will direct their ire at next. Sore winners, they are.
Nora
Current pet peeve of mine: the way every single report about the Trump scandals refers to the allegations as “unverified.” I don’t remember any of that care and caution when they were talking about Hillary’s emails, or Obama’s birth certificate, for that matter.
sigaba
George Soros and Gavin Newsom aren’t holding daily news conferences announcing the shocking new revelations in Makewatergate, they aren’t hiring PIs to snoop around the Moscow Ritz-Carlton, and congressional Dems aren’t making constant winking acknowledgements of it. That’s a big part of the difference. They should be carpet-bombing the press with this stuff if they want it to have that kind of dynamic.
The Obama-Muslim story wasn’t about Obama, it was about voters. The story was always about what some people thought about Obama. The fact of Obama’s birthplace was usually immaterial; Obama was “exotic,” and Real Americans didn’t accept him, and this was all somehow His Problem. Pee story doesn’t work this way.
Obama-Muslim was also a conflict over a brute fact: Obama was born in the US, other people claimed he wasn’t, these are falsifiable propositions. Trump has made a bland denial of Peegate but Trump has successfully made the conflict over the truth of the reporting, his character, his propensity to be controlled or blackmailed, wether or not this de-legitimizes his presidency, these are all subjective.
JPL
John Lewis’ district is hosting a football game…. shouldn’t we have an open thread in support of the Falcons.
randy khan
My guess is that they all were waiting for someone else to go with the story first. It’s just a little too weird and specific for most of the mainstream media.
And, frankly, the email story was really easy – handed to them in digestible bites for months on end. It was practically just transcription – read them and write what they say.
Baud
@Major Major Major Major: I really haven’t been following it because I’m ok with all of them. Has Ellison really jumped to the favorite?
Another Scott
@Nora: Yeah, that is funny isn’t it? I noticed that in some top-of-the-hour NPR news summary a few days ago. Made me want to crawl through the radio and strangle the announcer, it did.
Cheers,
Scott.
dm
I think it’s pretty readily explained by the expectation that Trump was going to lose anyway, no need to sink to yellow journalism.
debbie
@JPL:
Last night, they said it would be postponed until 8pm. Was the storm a nothingburger?
artem1s
they seem to never see the ad buy potential of outing reichwing crazies. Vitter, Hastert, Senator wide-stance, whatever Newt was into that Penthouse threatened to expose him for during Lewinskyghazi. St Ronnie was our first dee-vorcee in the WH. Suddenly adultery was no biggy for the Christian right. They learned that piousness was important to the rubes when Carter admitted sin in his heart. They learned piousness in actuality means nothing to the rubes when it comes to protecting football players.
The press will have unlimited amounts of stories that appeal to our worser angels for the next four years. All the have to do is open up their twitler feed every morning. Yet they continue to faun over this vile pestilential pee-covered flim flam man. Access is what they care about. For whatever it’s worth.
Major Major Major Major
@Baud: Reid and Schumer endorsed him and the B-rniecrats have Ellison as the #1 item on their self-described radical agenda (at least out here) and also he would be fine, so right now I imagine so. We’ll see what comes of the fora though.
JPL
@debbie: Tomorrow’s Pittsburgh/Kansas game was delayed until 8pm.
Today’s games are on schedule. It’s 73 here today, and last week we had an ice storm.
Baud
@Major Major Major Major: Thanks for following this. I know I should as well, but I have various personal things going on that are preoccupying me right now.
opiejeanne
O.T. Seahawks in Atlanta, where it’s 73; fans are already sweating. It’s been in the mid-30s during the day all week here. Seahawks won’t know what to do in such extreme heat.
Major Major Major Major
@Baud: gives me a one-up at parties for anybody complaining about the party ?
tobie
@Major Major Major Major: They endorsed Ellison before the others announced their candidacy. Haven’t heard a peep from them about this since. I like Perez and would also like him as a Governor of Maryland so I won’t be crestfallen if he doesn’t get the nod. That said, I am surprised he hasn’t made more of the fact that he actually has run a large agency (Dept of Labor), which is important for any DNC chair and distinguishes him from the other candidates.
JPL
@opiejeanne: It’s not affecting them so far. I wonder if they have the AC on.
opiejeanne
@JPL: I love him, but I’m a Seahawks fan. I hope Atlanta plays well but I want the Seahawks to win.
El Caganer
https://youtu.be/y86kDFaJ2h4
Suzanne
I am currently at the DNC Future Forum, listening to Ellison, Perez, Harrison, Brown, Green, and more discussing Where We Go From Here.
This is illuminating.
raven
Fuck Seattle!
Baud
@Major Major Major Major: Sounds like you attend fun parties.
opiejeanne
@debbie: The game is on right now. It’s been good so far, 5 minutes in.
JPL
@Suzanne: I listened for awhile. Update us later with your thoughts.
Suzanne
@Major Major Major Major: I am in the audience.
Mike J
@raven: Take me to dinner first.
El Caganer
@JPL: I thought that was the David Vitter Fund.
JPL
@opiejeanne: I declare you a traitor to John, but truth be known the defense did not show up. Our defense hasn’t been strong, but this is ridiculous.
Baud
@Suzanne: Oh wow. That’s great. Live blog it for us.
Major Major Major Major
@Suzanne: awesome! How’s the room?
@Baud: your friends don’t talk politics?
opiejeanne
@JPL: Is that an enclosed stadium? They’d have to crank it down to the 40s to make the Seahawks fans comfy. It’s 44 right now here and my husband is joking about putting on shorts but that’s silly: we don’t do that until it’s about 55.
JPL
@El Caganer: Republicans are pissing me off. They probably have enough info now, to take care of this. Party first!
tobie
@Suzanne: WOW!
Suzanne
@Baud: I am very impressed with Greene, she is saying great things about getting rid of voter registration altogether.
Vickie Feminist
Before the election, the WaPo ran an article asking why other news outlets did not pick up their articles critical of Trump. There was no clear answer. Your proposed theory of cowardice is sadly probably accurate.
opiejeanne
@raven: Fuck Atlanta. ;-)
JPL
This is awful..
Baud
@Major Major Major Major: Again with the “friends” thing. Twist the knife, why doncha?
Baud
@Suzanne: Maddow was saying the other night that N.D. has no voter registration.
Mnemosyne
@dr. bloor:
To me, it’s also proof positive that they all knew the “birther” controversy was totally fake and they let it go on anyway. They know that three-quarters of the shit that Republicans say about Democrats is bald faced lies, and they’re shocked to find out that their readers actually believe it.
They think they’re watching a tennis game where each side lobs accusations about the other, and that that game will never actually affect them, because they’re too rich and insulated.
And the MSM really does have a visceral, misogynist loathing of Hillary Clinton. I heard a speech by a major figure at the Giant Evil Corporation I work for who had come up through TV news (mentored by Dan Rather) and I was shocked by how contemptuous and dismissive he was of her. We really can’t afford to underestimate misogyny any longer, because it seriously bit us in the ass this time and half the people who succumbed to it are totally resisting acknowledging how irrational their loathing of Hillary is.
El Caganer
@JPL: Hmmm. Perhaps you’ve been thinking about Donald Trump – he’s pissed off until he’s pissed on. Whatevs.
Yarrow
@Suzanne: Cool! You’ll have to give us a summary at the end.
jonas
What would help is for some loudmouthed jackass who has no problem getting media to show up with a camera and kleg lights if he calls them to claim he’s sent some special private investigators to Moscow and “cannot believe what he’s hearing,” about Trump’s sexual escapades there. Keep escalating it with each interview: “Chuck [Todd], I obviously can reveal my sources, but I have guys in Moscow who have seen…well…let’s just say a couple of very traumatized goats, some shallow unmarked graves in a forest outside Moscow and receipts for a very elaborate gimp suit from an underground shop in St. Petersburg. Sorry I won’t say anything more at this time. But it’s unbelievable…”
Suzanne
@Major Major Major Major: The room is packed. My daughter had a Scouts event this morning, so I didn’t get here until shortly after it started, and I am in the back. But it is full, passionate, and orderly.
XTPD
@Trentrunner: Trump is Arkady SvidrigaĂŻlov without the charm, or any redeeming features whatsoever.
JMG
@Mnemosyne: There might be more woman-hating and resenting businesses than television, but I don’t know which.
Baud
@Suzanne: I’ll go with your recommendation for chair. You have my proxy.
Mnemosyne
@Suzanne:
I’d have to hear more specifics. Having no registration at all allows for a lot more outright fuckery at the polling place by making people run around, forcing them to use a provisional ballot and then rejecting it when their proof isn’t enough, etc.
Bonnie
How about sexism is why they didn’t write about it.
Suzanne
I am annoyed at the purity ponies who want to turn down corporate money merely because it comes from a corporation, with no valid plan to make it up, or any recognition that we should be saying that what is good for people is good for business.
ET
I will bet money that many, many reporters – particularly those closer to NYC – have been hearing Trump stories like the one Buzzfeed talked about and that theose make the Buzzfeed one look tame in comparison. I would hazard that a lot of NYCers know a truckload of bad stuff about Trump. But of course no one wants to speculate…..
Before Trump threw his hat in the ring most people considered him a seedy but loud and obviously blow-hard real estate developer in NYC. He had a show and liked to talk himself up but could sort of be ignored. The icky parts of his personal life were just that and not worth bothering about beyond rolling the eyes. Unfortunately, by the time his candidacy was serious it was too late for that to make the rumor mill hum and for reporters to really report on it without him and all of his enables and fanatics making it look like a bunch of lies and conspiracy. This was the failure of the press. They didn’t investigate and report the whole story early in the presidential race and now they struggle with how to report it.
The Lodger
@Another Scott: Tom Hanks is guest-hosting Wait Wait Don’t Tell Me this weekend and just went nuts on the unverified thing. (Apparently it’s impossible to shut the guy up when he gets on a roll. Listen if you can.)
Ella in New Mexico
Well, it depends, I think, on who “they” is. If you’re talking about the cable news networks, well..they’re always the last to know anything of substance thanks to their focus on low hanging fruit. If you’re talking about “Republican circles” then, that should be obvious.
But if you’re talking about investigative journalism then I think it was out there, particularly when the Post started talking about possible Russian involvement in the election in a few of it’s articles. Also, I think David Corn and a few others would argue that they WERE on this story. Maybe we didn’t have the prurient details in October out of journalistic caution for reporting unsubstantiated raw intelligence.
Major Major Major Major
@Suzanne: how do you feel about all the lobbyist stuff? I think most of the people opposed to ‘lobbyists’ don’t know the actual definition, or how many people they probably like are or have been registered.
Suzanne
@Baud: To be honest, I don’t know if I have a strong preference. Ellison and Perez are certainly the most prominent, and I think they would both be great. The others also strike me as up-and-comers.
Steve in the ATL
@JPL:
Thank god we have a dome–can’t imagine these delicate athletes trying to play outdoors in such conditions.
Suzanne
@Major Major Major Major: I feel exactly the same. Lobbying isn’t inherently bad. It just seems vaguely icky. I wish we would stop getting hung up on symbols.
XTPD
@Mnemosyne: Ramachandran and digby have also catalogued that the media blatantly telegraphed that they were going to elevate whatever Repug candidate ran in 2016.
The staff of POLITICO, Fuck the Fucking New York Times, NBC and CNN* all deserve to have their heads boiled in their own assholes.
*exceptions listed here
JGabriel
mistermix @ top:
Yes. The American media is more afraid of conservatives and the right-wing than they are of moderates, liberals, the center-left, and the left.
Partly because the right holds more boycotts, partly because the right is more violent.
And partly because a substantial percentage of the news media share the same views as the right-wing – particularly among the owners, upper management, and the highest paid news media celebrities – which is to say, the people who pay the salaries of the rest of news media.
JPL
@Steve in the ATL: My son was just researching ticket prices for the new stadium. Nose bleed section is 125.
quakerinabasement
Hillare no gov me sammich and tato chits.
Baud
@Suzanne: Agree. I feel we are distracted by side issues too often.
SiubhanDuinne
@randy khan:
Don’t think we didn’t see what you did there.
JPL
Seattle defense looks a tad better, but that is not saying much. I hope we tie this up shortly.
Jeffro
@debbie:
That’s #1
#2 – Rich, old white guy with anger & intimidation issues
#3 – he wasn’t named Clinton
Major Major Major Major
@JGabriel: they’re socially liberal/libertine, though, so the trapping of a “liberal media” are still there.
JPL
Yes
The Lodger
@quakerinabasement: To true!
Steve in the ATL
@JPL: I have a strict policy against buying tickets to professional sporting events. I just call outside counsel and tell them what I want!
Mnemosyne
@The Lodger:
As in defending Trump or going off on him? Hanks can have a weirdly conservative/libertarian streak on occasion.
RepubAnon
@Baud: The media types know that Republicans punish anyone who crosses them – Trump, 10x punishment.
Attacking Democrats doesn’t have any consequences, and doesn’t annoy the corporations who own all the media outlets – plus, it shows the bravery of the “liberal” press.
raven
The train, she is on time. . .
SiubhanDuinne
@The Lodger:
My local NPR station has started running a repeat of WWDTM in the afternoon, so I’ve actually heard the Hanks-hosted program twice today.
tobie
@XTPD: Aaargh! I’d forgotten about that Dylan Byers interview where he said the media was eager to take down Clinton and in so doing elevate a Republican. She really was the press’s piñata.
The Lodger
@Mnemosyne: Picking on “unverified” mostly.
EDT: I only heard about half the show, but didn’t hear anything that sounded like a defense of Trump.
opiejeanne
@Steve in the ATL: Hey! our guys have been playing in the deep freeze for weeks now. 73 feels like the Sahara to them.
zhena gogolia
@Nora:
That’s exactly what I wrote to the executive editor of the NYT. No reply was forthcoming.
Mnemosyne
@ET:
I would not take that bet because I’m pretty sure you’re right. They’ve been hearing these disgusting stories about Trump for so long that they feel like old hat now, and they’re surprised that the rubes would be shocked by them.
ThresherK
@NotMax: My mind went to George Jones and Tammy Wynette.
raven
@ThresherK: Tammy Whynot.
J R in WV
@debbie:
That’s the game in Kansas City, where it did freezing rain last night. I think, I’m not in the mid-west – we were south of the freezing zone last night, it’s 44 here right now, but wet and clammy.
Josie
Just came late to the party, and I have to say that, upon reading the first sentence of mistermix’s post, all I can think of is, “You’ve come a long way, baby!”
debbie
@Mnemosyne:
He wasn’t defending Trump.
OT, what do you think about this?
JPL
@opiejeanne: I am so glad that you team holds, cuz we’d be in deep trouble, if they didn’t.
Mnemosyne
@debbie:
Is that the right link? It’s about the Dunning-Kruger effect, about which I don’t have a strong opinion. ?
raven
Enjoy your trip?
debbie
@Suzanne:
It’s like a regular person writing their Congressperson, only with lots of money. It’s the money that needs to be regulated, not the access.
chopper
was just listening to “a golden shower of hits” in honor of the shitgibbon.
JPL
@raven: It would have been better, had he fumbled but I’ll take it.
debbie
@Mnemosyne:
Yes, I meant to link that. It’s all over Twitter as a response to Trump’s response to Lewis. I don’t know enough to know whether it’s part of narcissism or something separate, but it seems very descriptive of Trump.
James Powell
@Mnemosyne:
Could not agree with you more.
opiejeanne
@JPL: Yeah. and they get caught a lot.
Major Major Major Major
@debbie: The people I’m familiar with who have the strongest Dunning-Kruger going on are above average men who think they’re way above average.
JPL
@raven: Are you vocal during games, and if so does it bother the dogs. Finch has been known to walk out of the room, and climb in his crate. He is getting adjusted though.
opiejeanne
@JPL: I am. The cat is very offended. So far I’ve just been swearing, but not too loudly.
J R in WV
@Suzanne:
How will we keep Republicans from voting once in every polling place without voter registration? It needs to be automatic when you turn 18, send you a card where you pick your party, send it back, get a voter’s registration card in return mail. But not having it?
Makes fraud possible, probably certain for Rs.
raven
@JPL: Only Dawgs, Illini and Hokie games. The pups used to bail but, since Lil Bit is pretty much stone deaf, not so much anymore.
eta (Used to be for da Berz but that ship sailed)
danielx
Remember the media’s Clinton Rules!
1.The Clintons are always guilty of something; it only remains to find out what it is.
2. Whatever it is that the Clintons are guilty of, that something is the most egregious, vile, corrupt and insulting (to the media) violation of something ever. They absolutely cannot be allowed to get away with anything, because it they did it would show that Both Sides Are Not Equally Guilty.
3. Therefore the Clintons must be persecuted – uh, pursued! pursued! – to the ends of the earth. And beyond, if possible.
Mnemosyne
@debbie:
Ah, okay. I wasn’t sure if you were trying to tell me something. ;-)
In my totally non-expert layperson’s opinion, Trump isn’t smart enough for his problem to be Dunning-Kruger, but I think quite a few of his advisors have issues with it, particularly Thiel, Flynn and Kushner.
Ian
@Trentrunner:
I believe the phrase we are supposed to use now is “appearance of ethical lapse”. God knows how many times I heard that in 2016.
debbie
@Major Major Major Major:
That rules him out then for sure.
sukabi
@chopper: was Islands in the Stream part of the flow?
Mnemosyne
@James Powell:
My new screening question is, “Do you also consider Joe Biden to be a corrupt, warmongering tool of Wall Street?” If they say yes, they get points for consistency. If they say no, they get side-eye and dismissal as a serious person.
Formerly disgruntled in Oregon
@J R in WV: I prefer the system we now have in Oregon – DMV automatic voter registration (motor voter on steroids), combined with universal vote by mail.
raven
@Mnemosyne: give em the snake eye
Formerly disgruntled in Oregon
@raven: or the stink eye
Suzanne
@J R in WV: I think that was her positionâvoter registration would be automatic and not separate procedure from anything else (driver’s license or selective service or passport).
Major Major Major Major
@Mnemosyne:
Well, that consistency and 97,421 votes in Florida will get you a George W. Bush presidency, so I hope it’s not very many points.
raven
sheeeeeeeittttt!
Ian
@Major Major Major Major:
Sorry to answer your question to another person, but by very definition a lobbyist is someone who is paid to ‘lobby’ legislators for someone else. The morality is neutral, it is the actor behind the action who is “right” or “wrong”.
opiejeanne
Putin ate my comment, and now I can’t remember what it was. Thanks Trump!
Another Scott
@ET: Howard Stern is based in NYC and has Donnie on multiple times…
Cheers,
Scott.
Baud
@Ian: L
Yeah, labor and public interest groups have lobbyists too.
Major Major Major Major
@Ian: I know what a lobbyist is.
Chet Murthy
@Suzanne: I don’t want to disagree too vehemently, but corps don’t donate based on what’s good for business. They donate based on what’s good for their managers. So there *is* an decent argument that taking corporate money is a bad thing. That said, I’m with you — unilateral disarmament when faced with Nazis on the rampage is the same as suicide.
I remember a sci-fi story in which the Nazis take over India. Nehru and Gandhi were shot, and just didn’t understand that peaceful disobedience wouldn’t work in the face of genocidaires.
Not sayin’ I’m a fan of violence. Just usin’ it as a metaphor.
Suzanne
I’ve gotta say that I think Perez has a bit of an Old Man Yells At Clouds vibe, and Ellison comes off as possibly too Malcolm X-adjacent for some white people to feel comfortable (seriously, even his glasses are very old school). Considering that I think that part of our problem is charisma and that Obama and Bill Clinton were successful because they could calm the nerves of jittery white people, I don’t know what to do about that. Ellison impressed me with his pragmatism and his thoughts on communication between the different levels of the party.
Mnemosyne
@Major Major Major Major:
It’s a test for misogyny, not a test for overall susceptibility to dumbass propaganda. ?
JPL
@opiejeanne: How’s the cat? With Seattle’s running game and Russell Wilson, this could turn around quickly, so I am not being cocky.
Another Scott
@The Lodger: Thanks! I usually catch it on Sundays.
It’s on their web page now.
Cheers,
Scott.
Suzanne
@Chet Murthy: I agree with you, but we have backed ourselves into a perception that we are anti-business, as if it is an inherently evil activity. That is alienating, as many people whose votes we need would love to be successful in the business arena. We should make clear that we believe that capitalism can be performed ethically and that we are in support of that.
lgerard
I’m hopping some Congressperson has the courage to to shout out during the next State of the Union
“you peed”
Another Scott
@Mnemosyne: Hanks was at Obama’s Farewell party at the White House.
Cheers,
Scott.
Major Major Major Major
@lgerard: I would donate to the re-election campaign of somebody who shouted ‘you lie!’ after each of Trump’s lies until (s)he was ejected.
opiejeanne
@JPL: We made her get up because we needed lunch. She was having a lovely nap on mr opiejeanne’s lap until then, covered in a Mariners blanket. We are Angels fans but the blanket was free and is nicer than the ones we got at Angels stadium when we lived there.
She’s waiting on the couch for us to come back.
Mnemosyne
@Chet Murthy:
Here’s a roundabout answer for you: back when I was in graduate school for my MFA (screenwriting), one of the professors was talking about TV advertising and the whole concept of “bottom feeder” advertisers. Basically, those were the advertisers who you couldn’t hurt by threatening them with bad publicity, because they really didn’t care, and they usually were located far enough from civilization that any kind of physical picketing would be useless. His example at the time was Hot Pockets (which has since been bought out by Nestle, IIRC). The company that made Hot Pockets was willing to advertise on any show at all, because you couldn’t hurt them with bad PR.
Oil companies are the same way, because most people need to buy gas at some point. Entertainment companies are some of the most vulnerable to bad PR because buying their product is totally voluntary.
So there are corporations we can influence, and ones we can’t. Not surprisingly, the corporations that can be hurt by bad PR usually are publicly in favor of liberal causes, while corporations that don’t care about bad PR usually support Republicans.
Ian
@Major Major Major Major:
I apologize. I wasn’t trying to talk down to you.
Mnemosyne
@Suzanne:
Co-signed. Laissez-faire capitalism is not the only kind of capitalism. Do these people really think that there are no private companies in Sweden and everything is run by the government?
Aleta
“horrible shape and falling apart (not to mention crime infested)” (Pee J Trump)
Horrible shape: Atlantic City after Pee Trump was through with it
Fell apart: the Taj, Trump Castle, the Plaza, Trump Hotels & Casino Resorts, Trump Entertainment Resorts
Crime infested: Trump University, Trump Tower
Crime infested and fell apart: Trump Hollywood, Trump Ocean Resort Baja Mexico, fake Trump property in Ft Lauderdale, Trump Tower Tampa
Fell apart and Quickly Failed! Trump Shuttle, Trump Mortgage, Trump Financial. GoTrump Travel, Trump Vodka, Trump Steaks, Dubai luxury hotel and apartment complex
Horrible shape and Failed!: Trump International Hotel and Tower Toronto
“Shortly after it opened in 2012, it started shedding glass, and for the first of many times, the police had to close the surrounding streets because of falling debris. (Nov 2016) An Ontario court placed the Trump International Hotel and Tower into receivership … That came after a three-judge panel on the Court of Appeal for Ontario found last month that the projectâs investors had been deceived. And in a third legal action, the hotelâs owners tried to remove the Trump name from the building and cancel his companyâs contract to manage the hotel. Apartments and hotel rooms in the building that were sold as condominiums to dozens of investors have consistently lost money, and are probably now unable to be sold except at a steep loss. The vast majority never found buyers. …Toronto (is) a city that has been one of North Americaâs most buoyant real estate markets. (NYT)
Failed!: Trump International Hotel & Tower in Chicago
“Trumpâs Chicago Skyscraper at Bottom of Cityâs Energy Rankings (Scored 9 on a scale of 1 to 100, EPA’s Energy Star algorithm. ) And in 2009 Trump defaulted on its construction loan from Deutsche Bank, which sued him. Fortress Investment Group then took the losses.
Zinsky
Admiral PeePee is a vile, ignorant pervert who would be exposing himself to small children in the park and then yelling at them, if he hadn’t been born rich. What would happen if an entire country paid no attention to – listened to not one word from – their president? I think we should try…
Major Major Major Major
@Mnemosyne: Given what I hear from a lot of lefties in the Bay Area, the answer must be yes.
John
Someone needs to ask Trump, “Where are the women?”
Assume the urination party happened. Assume the Russians have video of it happening. I assume both. Do you believe that Putin would allow those women to going running around with that information in their heads? If they’re not dead (and I think that is the most likely situation) then they are in a cell somewhere in Siberia. Basically, these women are almost certainly suffering or dead because Trump wanted to satisfy his crass need to insult Obama.
Trump needs to account for the well-being of these unfortunate sex workers who happened to be involved in the wrong pee party. He can deny that it happened all he wants, but the second the video gets leaked he instantly becomes culpable for their safety anyway.
sukabi
@lgerard: only if it’s in Russian.
Major Major Major Major
@John:
Why not? Keeping them alive and comfortable isn’t going to cost that much, compared to the payoff if he needs to use them to give teary-eyed interviews later making Trump look bad.
Baud
@Major Major Major Major: Even IKEA?! I’m crushed.
Mnemosyne
@John:
There’s also Option B — the hookers were themselves working for the FSB. IIRC, that’s probably even more likely based on what knowledgeable people have been saying.
On the plus side, their lives probably wouldn’t necessarily be in any more danger than any other FSB operatives working on getting kompromat on foreign visitors.
Another Scott
@John: Supposedly Penthouse got 3 responses for their offer of $1M for exclusive rights to the tape…
FWIW.
Cheers,
Scott.
(Who doesn’t think Donnie will pull a Jimmy Swaggart…)
JPL
I saw this on Anne Applebaums twitter feed
Sunday Times: Trump team have told British officials that their first foreign trip will be a meeting with Putin
Baud
@JPL: Maybe he’ll give them Alaska back as a goodwill gesture.
Thornton Hall
Reporters are doing a job that barely requires a high school education. Their self-justification requires strict adherence to the arbitrary rules of journalistic ethics. The emails were on one side, the oppo brief was on the other. It wasn’t a close call.
opiejeanne
@Baud: Ha! There was an article about how not so very nice they were with their employees in … was it South Carolina? Not so very socialist because they didn’t have to be there.
JPL
@Another Scott: That won’t matter though. The only thing that matters is Trump in handcuffs.
JPL
@Baud: Just give them Sarah and her clan.
Mnemosyne
@JPL:
Isn’t Anne Applebaum one of the big apologists for Putin, or am I mixing her up with someone else?
Literally
Off topic: our local CBS station owned by Sinclair Broadcast Group which has broadcast a Trump hour-long ad on Sundays for months, Sharyl Attkisson’s “Full Measure,” is now showing a program called “The Rise of Terrorism: Holy War,” “Exploring ISIS’ war with Christianity; world leader’s blind eye to Jihad; security.” Propaganda on the Big Three! I think Sinclair owns one of the Big Three in every market.
Redshift
@Mnemosyne: Dunning-Kreuger doesn’t depend on being intelligent. A person can lack the ability to perceive their lack of expertise even if they’re dumb ass a post.
Mnemosyne
@opiejeanne:
Most companies run by non-jerky people will tell you that they want at least some government regulations, because it prevents their competitors from forcing them into a race to the bottom. Yes, they bitch about regulations like fifth-graders whose teacher tells them to settle down and get back to work, but that’s kind of the point.
Steve in the ATL
@Mnemosyne:
Sparrow school!
(That’s what they call the place they send their female agents to learn the art of seduction)
Mnemosyne
@Redshift:
True, but Dunning-Krueger is probably the least of Trump’s multiple psychological problems.
Major Major Major Major
@Mnemosyne: in the same vein you shouldn’t chain fifth graders to the desk until they write their essays just the way you want. Even if the big and loud ones are really mean bullies who torture animals.
TS
@JPL:
So that “special relationship” with the UK seems dead in the water. US & Russia against the world – wonder if the US media will EVER tell the truth about those who are manipulating the twat.
opiejeanne
@Redshift: I keep forgetting that Dunning-Kruger is not the name of the business portrayed in The Office.
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@Mnemosyne:
Oh please. The last thing any company wants is a free market – they want a monopoly, and short of that, they want to engage in every rent-seeking behavior possible, made possible by lobbying for things like tariffs, tax breaks, special exemptions from regulations for a certain product (yours), etc. Millions is spent on lobbying by companies because it’s legal bribery and it works. They want all the benefits of government intervention, and none of the civic responsibility.
opiejeanne
Gah! Not sure I’m going to watch the second half of this game. I just peeked at the score because mropiejeanne was suddenly interested in doing dishes and not going back upstairs. (The family room is upstairs; inconvenient for watching tv if you have guests).
West of the Rockies (been a while)
Trump has publicly declared he’s never been to Russia. Wouldn’t that be kind of easy to prove or disprove? How many lies will finally be too many with him I wonder.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
It is so weird, creepy, childish and petty for someone in politics to do this stuff their brains don’t know what to make of it. It’s like is screaming match at that Dem rep today, what president wasted their time on stuff like that?
Redshift
@Mnemosyne: Agreed. And not one I would have picked as having anything to do with his lashing out at John Lewis.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@JPL:
Well that will put to rest the accusations Trump is a Russian puppet. ROFL.
Mnemosyne
@the Conster, la Citoyenne:
Believe it or not, some people who work in and for corporations are not actually soulless sociopaths who hate humanity. And the smarter ones know that being a monopoly is not actually good for the marketplace. They can look at companies like Macy’s and realize that, by gobbling up every competitor in sight, Macy’s actually screwed themselves in the long term.
Regulations that level the playing field for all companies are better for everyone except sociopaths.
Mnemosyne
@Enhanced Voting Techniques:
To be fair, these are the same people whose voters swear they’re not racists, so they voted for the racist just to prove to the people who call them racists that they’re not really racists. So, yes, in the minds of Trump and his handlers, making a state visit to Russia proves that they’re not really controlled by Russia and everyone should STFU about that.
Also known as, “Stop that crying or I’ll really give you something to cry about!”
Suzanne
@Mnemosyne: I work for a small company (approx. 75 employees), and I like working there because the leadership is solid and committed to being good to their employees. For example, one of my teammates’ husband had a major health crisis, and my colleague basically had to leave entirely for six months, then work from home on a flex schedule, then cut back her hours. Some people were pissed that they kept her on, but they were devoted to her and her husband. She brings her husband to the office often, and there are more stories like that. I am also paid more than competitively. I also, you know, want to be prosperous in my chosen endeavor. Sometimes the left talks about this like it’s a bad thing, but we shouldn’t. I can both believe in creating an economic environment in which everyone is secure and essential resources are equitably distributed, and think that ethical business is an important part of that economic environment,
Another Scott
@West of the Rockies (been a while): Trump first visited Moscow in 1987.
But it doesn’t matter. Donnie could say that he’s never been to New York City and that wouldn’t matter either… (sigh)
He’s brain damaged. Nothing he says can be trusted and we might as well just ignore it. What he does and what his minions do is what matters.
Cheers,
Scott.
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@Mnemosyne:
Boards of directors’ only responsibility is to their shareholders, so maximizing profit is their fiduciary duty, under corporate law. Everything else is noise, and it’s PR noise, but they’ll do whatever they can to avoid a shareholder action, and lobby for whatever advantage they can get over their competitors. It’s not sociopathic, it’s bottom line quarter to quarter profit driven. I guess you can make the argument that capitalism, especially unfettered capitalism, turns successful practitioners into sociopaths, or attracts them, but corporations aren’t inherently anything – good or evil.
ETA : B corporations are new and really interesting. They replace the idea of stockholders with stakeholders, which includes management, employees, the community, and the environment. To be a B corporation you have to be certified as providing a public benefit. They’re profit corps, but with a conscience.
Another Scott
@Another Scott: To elaborate: I’m not an MD but we know that Trump is on a statin for high cholesterol. One of the reported side effects of statins is memory loss, and his father had Alzheimers.
FWIW.
Cheers,
Scott.
Major Major Major Major
@Suzanne: yeah Conster’s description didn’t really jibe with any small businesspeople I’m friends with, and only one former employer who was and is a complete sociopath.
debbie
@JPL:
Wow. If that doesn’t wake up the GOP, nothing will.
Mnemosyne
@the Conster, la Citoyenne:
But it doesn’t have to be. Smart companies think beyond the next quarter’s profits and plan ahead. Volkswagen didn’t work hard to be able to unionize their plant here (in think in Tennessee) because they love unions and want to do the best thing for their workers — they did it because they think it makes the corporation’s life easier to have a single entity to bargain with.
The fact that American corporations are currently incentivized to think short-term doesn’t mean that’s the only possible way for corporations to act, or that those corporations think that’s the best way to act. I think that, with the right regulations in place, corporations could be incentivized to do the opposite and do a lot more long-term planning and investment in capital projects. But as long as the US refuses to change those incentives, we’ll keep getting what we’ve been getting since the Reagan years.
debbie
@Literally:
Here, Sinclair owns the ABC and Fox affiliates. The head of Sinclair, a tiny man, likes to do opinion pieces, each more abominable than the last. Do you get those?
randy khan
@jonas:
That sounds like a job for Mark Cuban.
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@Major Major Major Major:
There’s a tipping point in the scale of the company – the minute a corporation accepts outside money in order to grow itself – venture capital investments, or big bank loans that demand certain conditions, etc – the dynamics change. Investors put their representatives on the board, and they start dictating. Closely held corporations – family owned corporations – can be immune to that kind of pressure, and are *generally* better companies to work for.
Smiling Mortician
@J R in WV:
Two problems with that: not every eligible voter has a mailing address, and voters are under no obligation to choose a party before being given a voter’s registration card.
Major Major Major Major
@the Conster, la Citoyenne: a fair distinction. I find that many on the left do not draw it, or perhaps don’t know to, since the rhetoric just demonizes “corporations” and not certain kinds of corporations. At least here in SF this leads to people not believing small businesses when they describe for instance how local regulations are keeping them from expanding or forcing them to relocate. Often those holes then get filled by larger companies that can afford the regulations through scale. (Specifically as regards things like health insurance)
Karen
1. Chances are the media higher ups are Trump’s buddies.
2. The media higher ups are Rethuglicans who sympathize with Trump and the GOP’s views.
3. The media is terrified of Trump and won’t take a chance on his wrath.
And those are the reasons any news about about Russia and Trump will never have real legs and will die.
aimai
@Mnemosyne: Yup. I will never, ever, believe again that the country will elect a woman president before a white male–even an atheist or a jew (the two most alternatively despised and feared categories).
Mnemosyne
@the Conster, la Citoyenne:
Or, to provide another example:
A couple of years before Obama was elected and the PPACA got passed, the Giant Evil Corporation I work for announced that if employees did not choose a health insurance plan during open enrollment and did not state that they had other insurance coverage, they would be automatically enrolled in an HMO that did not have a monthly payroll deduction (obviously, people could also opt for that plan during open enrollment). They did not do this out of the goodness of their hearts because they just loved all of their employees so. They did it because employees going bankrupt because they didn’t have health insurance coverage was becoming a problem for the corporation. It was affecting the bottom line and employee retention. So they took steps to solve that problem because they were worried about a potential long-term problem developing, plus it gave them a competitive hiring advantage with their benefits package. Same reason that Apple has stood strongly for LGBT rights for many years now — doing so has been good for their long-term health as a corporation.
The problem is not that corporations or even really big corporations exist. It’s that they’re currently given incentives by the government to only think short-term, and that policy decision is hurting all of us. It’s not just a natural thing that happens — it’s a series of specific and deliberate policy decisions since 1980.
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@Major Major Major Major:
It’s almost like black and white thinking isn’t really helpful to understand extremely complex concepts like what a corporation is and does. The corporate form takes on everything from single member LLCs or sole shareholder corporation (basically a sole proprietorship) to Microsoft or GE with many thousands of shareholders. Trying to make generalizations about what a corporation is and isn’t, and what they should do and shouldn’t do, is pointless. All a corporation is, is a document filed with a Secretary of State somewhere and shareholders dictate the rest, if they hold a majority of shares.
@Mnemosyne: The board of directors is making their decisions based on their understanding of what’s best for their shareholders. If improving working conditions for employees aids in retention, and retention is good for productivity, and good productivity shores up the bottom line, that’s what they’ll do. Under corporate law, it’s their fiduciary duty.
SFBayAreaGal
For some reason when I saw “Golden Streams” I thought of this song sang by Dolly Parton and Kenney Rogers
https://youtu.be/lixDK_tMEhE
Millard Filmore
@Chet Murthy:
I remember that. I think it was a short story by Jerry Pournelle.
fuckwit
Here is the problem, in football terms. Democracy has a slow-moving defense. Fascism has a fast-moving offense. In a blitz, fascism always wins.
Democracy is very slow. Slow for information to percolate. Slow for consensus to form. Slow for institutions and due process to do their painstaking work.
Someone gave an example of Nixon: Watergate happened in June 1972, Nixon was successfully re-elected in November 1972, and didn’t resign until August 1974!
By the time the process, institutions, and public opinion finally catch up with Troll, it’ll be 2018 at least… if they ever do. This is the state of play right now.
The clock never seems to be on the side of good. Evil always seems to have the first-mover advantage.
SFBayAreaGal
@fuckwit: I remember this quote from an episode of the original Star Trek
“Spock, I’ve found that evil usually triumphs – unless good is very, very careful.”
Quote by Dr. McCoy from the episode called “The Omega Glory”
Lefthanded compliment
Golden showers flood your eyes
Sneers await you and your lies
Leave, little Donnie, wave bye-bye
And I will sing you to your sty
James Powell
@Suzanne:
Neither one of those was DNC chair. We need better candidates all over the country, at every level. The charisma of the DNC chair is not going to be a problem. That person’s job is money, money, settling conflicting between the party’s warring factions, avoiding saying stupid things, money, and avoiding saying stupid things.
SiubhanDuinne
@Another Scott:
He was also a 2016 recipient of the Presidential Medal of Freedom a few weeks ago.
Applejinx
@Mnemosyne:
Yes and it does not matter because the corporation is not the people who compose it. It’s a separate entity that gets to lobby and pass laws through political influence, a thoroughly bipartisan activity that’s made most of Washington incredibly wealthy, and if you look at the operating systems of most corporations, ‘soulless sociopaths who hate humanity’ is far from an unreasonable description.
You could say that it’s rare to find corporations that specifically target humans to hate on, but consider the relative importance of (a) supporting humanity and (b) expanding the capital position/holdings of the corporation, consider the concept of fiduciary duty, and then remember that a soulful corporation is Hobby Lobby.
You’re far too trusting here. This is not only a problem but is an obvious point where trust breaks down between the Democratic Party and voters.
Applejinx
@Mnemosyne:
Volkswagen lied to California and everybody else about their diesel cars and substantially polluted the air, on purpose, risking all life on earth in order to get their cars to perform friskier so people would buy them.
Volkswagen is a REALLY BAD example for you here, and you’re right that in many ways they’re among the best things corporate capitalism has to offer. When the ‘good ones’ are caught doing shit like that maybe it’s time to re-evaluate your assumption that corporate entities are good things for the world. People trusted Volkswagen. And I’m sure many of the people that work at Volkswagen are very nice. ButâŠ
enplaned
The media elites never really got their head around the possibility of Trump actually winning. I think they were as surprised as anyone. So the priority was to weaken Hillary as much as possible so she had as small a landslide as possible, because, yes, they hate her.
The due diligence done on Trump was minimal because the media didn’t think he really had a chance to win. They fucked up bigtime, but they had a lot of company. The Democrats had an eminently winnable election and they completely screwed the pooch, to state the flaming obvious. In my mind, I’d like to see the back of most senior Democrats. I don’t understand why Pelosi is still there, for instance. Nothing specifically against Nancy, I just think a changing of the guard is the least that should happen. She’s 76, ferchrissakes. Part of the issue with Hillary was that she was the same-old, same-old. The Democratic elites as of 2016 messed up badly. Badly, badly out of touch — so let some new blood see if they can do better.
In 2006, the fuckups of the GOP pissed me off to the point that I registered Democrat and started giving money. In 2016, the fuckups of the Democrats have pissed me off to the point that I figure it’s pointless to give to the party until such time as it’s clear that a clue has been nailed into them.