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You are here: Home / Anderson On Health Insurance / Incentives matter

Incentives matter

by David Anderson|  January 16, 20177:37 am| 97 Comments

This post is in: Anderson On Health Insurance, Don't Mourn, Organize, Election 2018, Bitter Despair is the New Black

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“If Obamacare is working for you, we want to hear you say that, too.” – NC Republican @RepRichHudson, after 12,000-strong telephone townhall https://t.co/FTv2P6Lker

— (((r subramanian)))☪ (@randomsubu) January 15, 2017

 

This is why we call. This is why we organize. This is why we politely but firmly get in our representatives faces. Representatives are mostly lazy and they’ll go down the route that promises them the easiest win. We need to change that calculus and making the lives of representatives who are persuadable but currently voting against our interest unpleasant in a legal and above board manner will change priorities. Repeal and not Replace has, in my opinion, a short time frame for the act to be commissioned. It has to happen fast or it won’t happen as more and more of the 218 people who will vote to screw tens of millions of our fellow citizens for ideological reasons will get scared of the blowback. Let’s keep on informing the swingables that there will be blowback.

https://t.co/mcc0RNktfi Take note, other Democrats. Pissing off Trump makes you $$$.

— Amanda Marcotte (@AmandaMarcotte) January 15, 2017

And let’s make it clear that opposition is a clear winner for any and all Democrats even the ones that drive most of this readership (myself included) nuts during normal times.

But to get away from healthcare for a moment, let’s look at where the incentives may be conceivably perverted:

Again, I ask: What happens when intel community warns of impending terrorist attack? Will Trump admin believe it? https://t.co/WwU47Vt6pP

— Caroline O. (@RVAwonk) January 15, 2017

The Trump administration could have a strong incentive to hope for a terrorist attack within the United States. It did not hurt Bush and the Republicans in 2002 or 2004. And it would allow for a massive shock doctrine purge of the civil service in the intelligence community.  People rally around the flag, people get suspicious of expanding the circle of US instead of THEM and the fear of another attack shuts down critical thinking and allows the few voices speaking out to be marginalized as Saddam lovers (that was the 2002 play-book as I remember it).

So incentives matter and in this last case, they are perverted.

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Reader Interactions

97Comments

  1. 1.

    beth

    January 16, 2017 at 7:55 am

    I’m signed up for a tele town hall with Mark Sanford on Tuesday. I’ve never participated in one before – is it just listening to the Rep or do they offer any interaction?

  2. 2.

    Barbara

    January 16, 2017 at 7:55 am

    I would not assume that Trump will generate the same reactions Bush did.

  3. 3.

    Richard Mayhew

    January 16, 2017 at 8:04 am

    @Barbara: the possibility exists that he could… I am not sure if it would play out the same way but this is our recent history

  4. 4.

    ARoomWithAMoose

    January 16, 2017 at 8:05 am

    For those of us on employer sponsored healthcare, remember there is a bunch of ACA stuff in there for us too. A biggie, “no pre-existing conditions non-coverage clause” especially in cases of a period of lapsed coverage (like being unemployed long term and not being able to afford COBRA premiums).

  5. 5.

    charluckles

    January 16, 2017 at 8:10 am

    How about a little false flag operation, Putin style? A lot of dogs are going to need to be wagged.

  6. 6.

    Baud

    January 16, 2017 at 8:18 am

    @Barbara: I agree. Dems won’t rally around Trump this time. Good faith is gone.

  7. 7.

    Patricia Kayden

    January 16, 2017 at 8:20 am

    So Republicans are perfectly alright when their President-Elect and Vice President-Elect diss our Intel community? How reassuring.

  8. 8.

    Starfish

    January 16, 2017 at 8:22 am

    About 150 people showed up to talk to Coffman about healthcare. He ran away a few minutes early after speaking to about 70 people one by one instead of letting a whole group enter the room.

  9. 9.

    rachel

    January 16, 2017 at 8:24 am

    @Richard Mayhew: I

    I am not sure if it would play out the same way but this is our recent history

    I think it’s less likely to play out the same way because it’s our recent history.

  10. 10.

    Betty Cracker

    January 16, 2017 at 8:33 am

    It’s also important to remember that the interests of the Trump-Putin administration and terrorist groups like ISIS converge now. ISIS wants a war of civilizations. So does the white nationalist movement in Russia that has co-opted the US government and is attempting to subvert other Western democracies.

    I’m not suggesting that Trump-Putin will stage a false flag op or ignore intel to deliberately set the U.S. up for a mass casualty attack (though I wouldn’t really put that past them either). But they absolutely would capitalize on such an event to persecute Muslims worldwide and entrench police state measures at home to quell opposition.

    The purchase and use of one cheap AR-15 knock-off and a few high capacity mags could prove to be the cost of bringing down U.S. democracy. Scary times.

  11. 11.

    debbie

    January 16, 2017 at 8:38 am

    @Betty Cracker:

    Why not? Putin’s pulled false flags before (Chechnya and Crimea, for two).

  12. 12.

    bemused

    January 16, 2017 at 8:46 am

    I’ve been reading some intel and national security pros say the Russian jig is up for the Trump & Co, more than enough solid info Trump team colluded with Russia. I can only hope that is true and they pay heavy consequences.

  13. 13.

    JPL

    January 16, 2017 at 8:49 am

    @debbie: That’s exactly why I think it happens. Trump admires Putin and wants to follow in his footsteps.

  14. 14.

    MomSense

    January 16, 2017 at 8:52 am

    Going to call Collins and Poliquin again today.

  15. 15.

    Betty Cracker

    January 16, 2017 at 8:56 am

    @bemused: If U.S. intel orgs have that information, they need to come clean in the next four days. Otherwise, it all goes down the memory hole. Over the weekend, Trump speculated on Twitter that the CIA director is the source of the leaked dossier. I don’t know what more incentive they need.

  16. 16.

    rachel

    January 16, 2017 at 9:12 am

    @efgoldman: They’d have to hire independent contractors. I wonder if they’d treat the hiring process as an episode of Apprentice.

  17. 17.

    bemused

    January 16, 2017 at 9:16 am

    @Betty Cracker:

    Right. Just what we have learned reeks like rotten eggs. UK and other countries taking it very seriously. I just want something massive to break soon and hard.

  18. 18.

    debbie

    January 16, 2017 at 9:17 am

    @efgoldman:

    NPR had a 7+ minute interview with Susan Rice this morning. She said they had prepared hundreds of briefing papers for the new administration. I wonder if anyone will read any of them.

  19. 19.

    Ben Cisco

    January 16, 2017 at 9:19 am

    @bemused: If they have this, and it’s conclusive, you have to deal with those who are working with their own reality, in which the whole thing is a false flag op – I actually read someone seriously postulating this – and if the GOPers dig in for the sake of preserving Team Red’s “win”, it’s going to get really ugly really quick.

  20. 20.

    GregB

    January 16, 2017 at 9:22 am

    @bemused:

    I do wonder if the there was a trap set after the members of Congress were given the information during the campaign and instead of standing with America, the Republicans shut their mouths to help collude with the plot makers.

  21. 21.

    JPL

    January 16, 2017 at 9:23 am

    @debbie: Steve Bannon will read them.

  22. 22.

    aimai

    January 16, 2017 at 9:27 am

    @JPL: Look, Trump may admire Putin, and may be a skeevy racist, sexist, bastard who enjoys violence for its own sake. But he ain’t no ex-KGB actual tough guy. Trump and Pence are not going to collude at an actual act of terrorism on US soil. They may be incompetent enough to let the Russians do it but both are pants pissing cowards in their real lives who are morbidly self conscious about the respect of other people–lots of other people, not just their own followers. Trump does not have the fortitude or the intellect to plan and carry out anything, much less something with mass casualties.
    Its bad enough that their incompetence and stupidity and their willingness to be used by Russia if it gets them into power in the US (and it has) will leave us open for acts of real terrorism or Russian false flag operations. But Trump isn’t going to know or understand what is happening. He’s not behind it. He’s under it like a drugged out moron lying down in the road to be near the big cars.

  23. 23.

    JPL

    January 16, 2017 at 9:32 am

    @aimai: Does it matter though, because he will blame whoever Putin tells him to.

  24. 24.

    debbie

    January 16, 2017 at 9:34 am

    @aimai:

    Putin has no interest in doing much of anything on American soil. He’ll be looking for Trump/Pence to “assist” him in weakening Western Europe to where he can easily assume control. Trump/Pence both think they’re smart enough to play Putin when actually it’ll be Putin playing them. Rocky & Bullwinkle, but with an unhappy ending.

  25. 25.

    bemused

    January 16, 2017 at 9:34 am

    @GregB:

    Pence went on all the sunday shows saying there was no Trump campaign communication with Russia. If he is lying and had knowledge it happened, he is just as guilty of collusion as Trump and red team are.

    I can only hope GOP legislators are feeling some fear that downplaying and supporting Trump team canoodling with Putin could bite them back hard but they are drunk on hubris and greed.

  26. 26.

    Belafon

    January 16, 2017 at 9:35 am

    The Trump administration could have a strong incentive to hope for a terrorist attack within the United States. It did not hurt Bush and the Republicans in 2002 or 2004. And it would allow for a massive shock doctrine purge of the civil service in the intelligence community. People rally around the flag, people get suspicious of expanding the circle of US instead of THEM and the fear of another attack shuts down critical thinking and allows the few voices speaking out to be marginalized as Saddam lovers (that was the 2002 play-book as I remember it).

    People need to be periodically reminded that while Trump might not invite an attack on the US, he won’t exactly be looking to stop one for the reasons you cited.

  27. 27.

    Frank Wilhoit

    January 16, 2017 at 9:36 am

    Rational incentives are decisively swamped by emotional incentives. In this environment, party loyalty is absolutely everything.

  28. 28.

    jonas

    January 16, 2017 at 9:43 am

    @Patricia Kayden: I know. Can you imagine if a Democratic PEOTUS was doing what Trump is doing? The sounds of exploding heads and the primal screams of outrage would be echoing at deafening levels across the country.

  29. 29.

    Barbara

    January 16, 2017 at 9:47 am

    @bemused: Pence is probably stupid enough not to realize which operatives were being used as intermediaries between Trump’s team and Putin, or they just deliberately kept him in the dark. Either way, they can parade him around for good faith denials.

  30. 30.

    aimai

    January 16, 2017 at 9:48 am

    I was at the health care rally in Boston yesterday. It was nice, and got some nice pictures, but it was very annoying qua social worker/community organizer/heir to alinsky. Long period of just waiting with nothing going on. No one was working the crowd in advance of the speakers. No one asked the crowd to text (some number) to gather information/create links, no one asked the crowd “where they had come from” to kind of create that sense of community or enable people to reach out to other people from their communities, no one asked us to introduce ourselves to our neighbors, or served hot drinks (not that anyone needed that but its a way of creating community) and after some good, red meat speeches by Warren and Markey people started trickling away. Stupid speech by a functionary from Boston Medical Center who simply didn’t know what the role of speaker at a rally was for. Heartwarming but tedious speeches of human interest and no call to specific action. Same problem at a black lives matter rally at BU a few months ago. People want to call rallies but have no idea how to make them a working proposition. If I can get a few thousand people to take a couple of hours and come out and stand in the cold I want to be sure they feel rewarded by being given another small job–no matter how small–and that they feel they have been seen and touched/spoken to by another activist.

  31. 31.

    aimai

    January 16, 2017 at 9:49 am

    @JPL: Yes. But its ridiculous to argue that Trump wants this specifically. The white house and white supremacy are a grift, to him. They are real goals to Putin.

  32. 32.

    Corner Stone

    January 16, 2017 at 9:50 am

    I can’t believe they are letting Trump answer questions with foreign press. The man is utterly ignorant about the world and literally everything he says shows all our allies, and adversaries, what a buffoon he is.
    The stuff he is saying about NATO may as well have been written by the Kremlin.

  33. 33.

    Corner Stone

    January 16, 2017 at 9:53 am

    @debbie:

    Trump/Pence both think they’re smart enough to play Putin when actually it’ll be Putin playing them.

    Trump may actually believe he is a smart cookie, although IMO all his screaming insecurity indicates he truly does not believe he is intelligent, but I think Pence knows he is dumb as a rock. He just puts his faith in the Lord and does what he’s told. No need to burn out a brain cell or two over thinking it.

  34. 34.

    ThresherK

    January 16, 2017 at 9:56 am

    @aimai: very annoying qua social worker/community organizer. (No one in charge of doing all the things one gets at a good rally)

    Does this correlate to the “vote Furny (sic) and magically all his proposals will become law” way of running the government?

    Also Spousal ThresherK is an LCSW, and I’ve been to benefit performances and holiday parties for one of her previous employers. That agency had no idea how to pick (from their own) people to emcee. It was a practice in dead air and waiting, and that’s saying something, considering the tiny college radio station I was in back ages ago.

  35. 35.

    Another Scott

    January 16, 2017 at 9:57 am

    Dunno. My understanding (which may be flawed) is that part of the reason 9/11 happened was that information in the IC was stove-piped. Too many agencies had pieces of the puzzle, but didn’t know about other pieces in other agencies, so they couldn’t get an accurate picture of what was up.

    (If one re-reads the “Bin Laden Determined to Strike in the US” memo, it really doesn’t have any information that could be immediately acted on, just lots of “he’s interested in this” kind of things. How much of that was dumbing-down the actual intelligence so that W could understand it? Dunno.)

    The PATRIOT Act changed a lot of things. Setting up the DNI changed a lot of things.

    The heads of the agencies don’t do the work – they present the PowerPoint shows that others prepare for them. People working in the trenches in the agencies are still working hard to understand what violent radicals are planning and attempting to do. They’re not going to sit on their hands even if the brownshirts in the Trump-Putin administration are rubbing their hands in glee at the thought of whipping up a rerun of the 9/11 mania.

    Yes, we must fight over-reactions.

    Eternal vigilance, but let’s not go overboard.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  36. 36.

    ThresherK

    January 16, 2017 at 10:00 am

    @Starfish: Cue Yakety Sax!

  37. 37.

    Belafon

    January 16, 2017 at 10:01 am

    @jonas: Based on coverage from Fox and places like Breitbart, a lot of people on the right think that Obama was acting the way Trump is.

  38. 38.

    SFAW

    January 16, 2017 at 10:02 am

    Re: false flags
    It would be interesting to see the response of Alex Jones if an actual false-flag op took place. I figure either his head go a-splode, or he’ll claim it was a false false flag, set up by people who hate Trump.

  39. 39.

    SFAW

    January 16, 2017 at 10:08 am

    @Another Scott:

    Too many agencies had pieces of the puzzle, but didn’t know about other pieces in other agencies, so they couldn’t get an accurate picture of what was up.

    If ONLY there had been someone who was supposed to work across intelligence agencies. Perhaps she could have been called “National Security Advisor” or something like that. I’m sure she could have done a superb job — when she wasn’t practicing her piano, or being called “scary smart” by Katie Couric.

  40. 40.

    aimai

    January 16, 2017 at 10:08 am

    @Corner Stone: I imagine that McConnell and Ryan are waiting until Trump is sworn in before going to Kushner and Ivanka and telling them that they either rein Trump in, and get to keep grifting as much as they want, or he gets impeached and they put Pence in. It remains to be seen if K and I can rein him in, if they take McConnell and Ryan seriously, or if McConnell and Ryan think they can smear Trump with the Russian thing and defenestrate him to loud acclaim and move on to installing Pence without damaging their brand. Its more of a high wire act than McConnell and Ryan are used to, but I have no doubt that they can and will force Trump out as soon as they have figured out a way to sell it to the press and the republican voter. Which, given how loud and proud Trump is being with the russkies, won’t be long.

  41. 41.

    OzarkHillbilly

    January 16, 2017 at 10:09 am

    @SFAW: He is certain that Obama already pulled dozens.

  42. 42.

    rachel

    January 16, 2017 at 10:13 am

    @aimai: Want to bet whether they get him to sign off on gutting Obamacare and social security first?

  43. 43.

    debbie

    January 16, 2017 at 10:13 am

    @Corner Stone:

    Trump may actually believe he is a smart cookie, although IMO all his screaming insecurity indicates he truly does not believe he is intelligent…

    I fully disagree, having lived in NYC and watched Trump since the late 1970s.

  44. 44.

    Aleta

    January 16, 2017 at 10:16 am

    What happens when intel community warns of impending terrorist attack?

    Trump adm takes advantage of that, to limit access and cancel promises, increase aggressive policing and surveillance, corral protestors or others, redefine who poses a threat

  45. 45.

    GregB

    January 16, 2017 at 10:16 am

    It is kind of funny how the paranoid righty types like Jones have been warning about the perils of a New World Order are all on board with exactly that.

  46. 46.

    SiubhanDuinne

    January 16, 2017 at 10:17 am

    @ThresherK:

    Cue Yakety Sax!

    That’s the soundtrack for the entire T transition. What I wouldn’t give to have enough money to bribe the Marine Band to play that at the inauguration instead of Hail to the Chief!

  47. 47.

    Another Scott

    January 16, 2017 at 10:17 am

    @aimai: I can’t see them moving against Donnie until, at the earliest, after they pass their giant tax cuts, do what they can to gut Obamacare, Medicare, Medicaid, and all the rest of the similar things that they can. They don’t want the distraction yet. They know that removing Donnie too soon would infuriate the rubes and they need the rubes to be quiet for a while.

    They also remember the damage that was done to their brand when Nixon was forced out.

    At the moment, I suspect they’ll simply continue to say that Donnie’s stuff that they don’t like isn’t going to happen (e.g. the “$1T stimulus plan”). They’ll ignore him on things they don’t like, and let him twist in the win on the Russia stuff for a while to strengthen their hand against him in pushing what they want.

    But we’ll see.

    Our best hope is to force Donnie and the Teabaggers to own their policies and their actions. Do NOT help them. If they want to gut Obamacare and have the votes to do it, don’t help to reduce the impact in the Replace stage (if any). Stand united in opposition so that there is a clear choice in November 2018. No more of this “bipartisan” “both-sides” nonsense – THEY must own it.

    Then we can start rolling things back in January 2019.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  48. 48.

    SFAW

    January 16, 2017 at 10:18 am

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    He is certain that Obama already pulled dozens.

    Only dozens? I thought we were up to “hundreds.” But then again, I don’t follow Alex Jones, because I can’t afford to get any dumber than I already am.

    I just think he wouldn’t recognize an actual false flag if it kicked him in his empty head. Well, he might recognize it, but because it came from Shitgibbon, he’d choose to ignore it.

  49. 49.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    January 16, 2017 at 10:20 am

    @JPL:

    Putin’s personal fortune is estimated at 40 to 200 billion USD, despite his never having worked outside government. Trump wants that.

  50. 50.

    GregB

    January 16, 2017 at 10:21 am

    @aimai:

    It sounds like you should put together a briefer on how to present a message and get it out to some folks.

  51. 51.

    VOR

    January 16, 2017 at 10:27 am

    @SFAW: She was scheduled to give a speech about missile defense the morning of 9/11. Even though the outgoing Clinton Administration warned them that terrorism in general, and Al Queda in particular, would be their top concern.

  52. 52.

    Betty Cracker

    January 16, 2017 at 10:31 am

    @debbie: I think you’re both right: Trump’s narcissism springs from deep insecurity. Feelings of worthlessness drive his grandiosity. (I’m not a clinician, but the literature on narcissistic personality disorder seems to fit Trump to a T.)

  53. 53.

    Thoughtful David

    January 16, 2017 at 10:31 am

    in this last case, they are perverted

    They are indeed. This needs to be said over and over: they’re perverts.

  54. 54.

    MomSense

    January 16, 2017 at 10:31 am

    @aimai:

    That’s why the Obama campaigns were so effective. We used those rallies to identify and get contact info.

  55. 55.

    jeffreyw

    January 16, 2017 at 10:34 am

    @GregB:

    It is kind of funny how the paranoid righty types like Jones have been warning about the perils of a New World Order are all on board with exactly that.

    All their worries about a “New World Order” were due to their fear that they would not be the ones giving the orders.

  56. 56.

    Barbara

    January 16, 2017 at 10:36 am

    @SFAW: And, umm, the CIA actually did tell Bush that bin Laden was “determined to strike in the U.S.,” which might have been expected to ramp up efforts to reach down into every possible place to bring together existing intelligence. But what is it that Bush said? “Okay, now you have covered your ass.” I am sure that’s the first thing that guy, whoever he was, thought of when the twin towers were bombed, that at least he had covered his ass.

  57. 57.

    Barbara

    January 16, 2017 at 10:38 am

    @Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes: Right, and I am sure that in exchange for the opportunity to get a decent wash job, Putin will let him take a tiny bit of it.

  58. 58.

    Timurid

    January 16, 2017 at 10:39 am

    @jeffreyw:

    HAIL HYDRA!

  59. 59.

    SFAW

    January 16, 2017 at 10:41 am

    @VOR:

    Why, whomever do you mean? You mean there actually WAS such a person? Who knew?

    Yeah, her expertise was Russia. Which is important now, since her husband boss looked into the soul of Pooty-Poot, and found a soul-mate (or whatever bullshit W spewed about Putin), and decided it was OK to let Vlad do whatever he wanted. But focusing on Russia really wasn’t quite as important in early 2001.

  60. 60.

    Thoughtful David

    January 16, 2017 at 10:42 am

    @bemused:

    So, how does “please hack and publish Clinton’s emails” (sorry, NYT link) not count as communication with Russia? It wasn’t a secret communication, but it was a clear communication to the Russians that Trump would support it.

    So, Pence is already lying on something that can be easily verified.

    Yes, he’s a traitor as much as the shitgibbon.

  61. 61.

    SFAW

    January 16, 2017 at 10:44 am

    @Barbara:

    Well, that’s because it was Richard Clarke who was doing the hair-on-fire thing, and being a Clinton hire/appointee, he had no credibility. Probably because of Benghaziii!!!!!!! and e-mails.

    ETA: And besides, that memo was OVER A MONTH before 9/11, so how could W and company be expected to focus for such a long period of time on preventing it.

  62. 62.

    Barbara

    January 16, 2017 at 10:46 am

    @Another Scott: I would say that is their plan — that they are holding off any possible rearguard movement until they get their legislative priorities passed, regardless whether they have enough ammunition right now. That is one reason why they want to move so fast, the other being the natural inertia that comes with legislative efforts as the “actual details” become widely known. So it is important to keep the pressure on. I have identified five House reps to contact outside of my own state, where my mother, sister, and daughter all live. Three Republicans and two Democrats, in New York and Pennsylvania. My message for the Rs among them will be short: “Right now, my daughter and my brother have insurance because of the ACA. If they don’t have insurance after repeal, we will all hold Rep. _____ personally responsible. I am not interested in platitudes and promises. That is the bottom line for us.”

  63. 63.

    A Ghost To Most

    January 16, 2017 at 10:52 am

    @bemused:

    I’ve been reading some intel and national security pros say the Russian jig is up for the Trump & Co, more than enough solid info Trump team colluded with Russia. I can only hope that is true and they pay heavy consequences.

    link(s) ?

  64. 64.

    debbie

    January 16, 2017 at 10:53 am

    @Betty Cracker:

    Maybe that’s how it started, but more than 50 years later, Trump’s come to believe his own legendariness. There isn’t an ounce of self-doubt in the man. And we’re talking about a man with lots of ounces!

  65. 65.

    MomSense

    January 16, 2017 at 10:59 am

    We know Putin employs false flags. We know W suggested it to Blair from the “Downing Street Memos”. We know that the ” rape Melania” sign was brought to a rally by a trump supporter.

    I do think that the most likely causes of a terrorist struck here will be our allies’ not sharing intelligence with us because trump and his people cannot be trusted by them, abandoning NATO and the EU for Russia, trump’s ongoing feud and refusal to heed our intelligence community, Flynn’s poor management ability and predilection to believe fake news and crank conspiracies, trump’s refusal to take intelligence briefings, trump’s incendiary and unpredictable comments, and trump’s apparent cognitive impairments. As to the last item on my list,he clearly lies incessantly but he also denies saying things he said the previous day. I don’t know where the lying stops and the cognitive/memory impairment begins.

  66. 66.

    Aleta

    January 16, 2017 at 10:59 am

    @debbie: Just uneducated guessing and suspicion, but I suspect Pu also wants (along with international oil/gas cos) :

    -weaken the US Foreign Corrupt Practices Act, which punishes US (and sometimes foreign) co.s that pay bribes to get contracts in foreign countries ( btw I wonder if Pe(e) Tr has already done so). Oil/gas cos hate this act.
    –US pressure to change Arctic treaties (https://news.usni.org/2016/12/20/old-treaties-called-question-arctic-competition-increases) and (along with oil cos)
    -US backing to control Arctic cooperation groups (SoS HRC Clinton had joined an environmentally involved one, 1st time for the US)

  67. 67.

    Patricia Kayden

    January 16, 2017 at 11:01 am

    Off topic but if any of you live in Maryland, please contact your Reps (Senate and House) and demand that they boycott Trump’s inauguration. Shocked that no Maryland Rep is on this list of boycotters.

  68. 68.

    bemused

    January 16, 2017 at 11:03 am

    @Thoughtful David:

    Trump MAGA, flag waving voters, whether they were fans or just hated Hillary more, are also traitors. They knew Trump was a Putin butt kisser long before the election and yawned. Now if the nominee had been HRC or Bernie or anyone not an R smooching Putin, they would have been screaming their bloody heads off. Phonies, through and through.

  69. 69.

    Suzanne

    January 16, 2017 at 11:08 am

    I only regret that I bought the three-volume box set of “March” for Mr. Suzanne for Christmas. I kinda wish I’d bought it this week.

    Mr. Suzanne is reading it this weekend.

    I just finished the book I’ve been reading (a pretty darn good crime novel), and was thinking of starting “The Gulag Archipelago” or “The Souls of Black Folk”.

  70. 70.

    cmorenc

    January 16, 2017 at 11:12 am

    @aimai:

    Its more of a high wire act than McConnell and Ryan are used to, but I have no doubt that they can and will force Trump out as soon as they have figured out a way to sell it to the press and the republican voter. Which, given how loud and proud Trump is being with the russkies, won’t be long.

    Trump is so arrogantly self-confident from successfully pulling off his right-wing populist coup against the GOP establishment and winning the Presidency, that his ruthlessly competitive, alpha-male nature won’t bend that much Ryan and McConnell – Trump sees himself as the alpha dog and will viciously unleash himself and his supportive pack upon them if they try to cage him to control him in this manner.

    Ryan and McConnell OTOH will go along with Trump only so long as their ideological and GOP party goals for retaining control of the country aren’t being seriously damaged by his unpredictable recklessness AND they aren’t yet confident they can pull off a successful coup to force Trump out. I do agree that they will more than likely come to a fork in the road within the first year (maybe weeks) of the Trump Administration where they have no choice but to attempt to topple Trump because the imminent threat of him pulling them and the entire country down will force them to to “all in”.

  71. 71.

    Felonius Monk

    January 16, 2017 at 11:14 am

    @Suzanne:

    I just finished the book I’ve been reading (a pretty darn good crime novel)

    Sharing is Caring. Title, please. I love crime novels. :)

  72. 72.

    bemused

    January 16, 2017 at 11:15 am

    @A Ghost To Most:

    A lot of tweets over last week, several different people, John Schindler, Rick Wilson, Louise Mensch, David Corn, Malcolm Vance, Eichenwald, etc. discussing Trump/Russia. Couldn’t say who said exactly what but interesting chats.

  73. 73.

    permafrost

    January 16, 2017 at 11:17 am

    This might sound crazy, but I’m worried about a false flag Russian ‘Muslim’ terrorist attack in the domestic US.

  74. 74.

    Kilgore Trout

    January 16, 2017 at 11:18 am

    @Another Scott:

    (If one re-reads the “Bin Laden Determined to Strike in the US” memo, it really doesn’t have any information that could be immediately acted on, just lots of “he’s interested in this” kind of things. How much of that was dumbing-down the actual intelligence so that W could understand it? Dunno.)

    Yes, but…just a month or so before that briefing the President had attended a G7 in Genoa, Italy where anti-aircraft missles had been deployed because of intelligence regarding bin Laden and the use of airplanes as weapons. A competent national security team could have connected the dots.

  75. 75.

    hedgehog the occasional commenter

    January 16, 2017 at 11:21 am

    @Starfish: Brave Sir Michael ran away…

  76. 76.

    randy khan

    January 16, 2017 at 11:28 am

    @cmorenc:

    I think at some point the Congressional Republican leadership (using the term loosely) will be faced with the choice of going all in on Trump or openly breaking with him (that path would include efforts to oust him). My sense is that the odds slightly favor the former over the latter, but not by much. If they go down the path of breaking with him, it will be because they’re convinced that they will be hurt electorally if they don’t, but by that point it might be too late.

  77. 77.

    eyelessgame

    January 16, 2017 at 11:29 am

    @VOR:

    She was scheduled to give a speech about missile defense the morning of 9/11. Even though the outgoing Clinton Administration warned them that terrorism in general, and Al Queda in particular, would be their top concern.

    It’s really amazing, isn’t it, how Osama bin Laden ended the threat of ICBMs, and made it completely unnecessary for us to talk about missile defense? Sometimes I think he isn’t given enough credit for that accomplishment.

  78. 78.

    Villago Delenda Est

    January 16, 2017 at 11:31 am

    @SFAW: This is true. The Clinton National Security Team tried to tell the deserting coward’s minions that Al Qaeda should be their greatest concern, but fuckhead and Darth Cheney wanted a new cold war with China.

  79. 79.

    PhoenixRising

    January 16, 2017 at 11:31 am

    @aimai:

    Trump and Pence are not going to collude at an actual act of terrorism on US soil.

    You wish. ‘You’ve covered your ass, now get out.’ Team Red will collude with literally anything that allows a tax cut for rich people, and has. Lest we forget.

    OT: Are we getting all the right mileage out of the possible puns/slogans there? Red Don leads Team Red over a cliff because he’s Putin’s poodle…

  80. 80.

    A Ghost To Most

    January 16, 2017 at 11:36 am

    @bemused:
    If they have concrete info and don’t drop it, they must be seen as complicit.

  81. 81.

    eyelessgame

    January 16, 2017 at 11:38 am

    @Kilgore Trout: I also remember the guy – but forget his name – who was “running around Washington with his hair on fire” all summer 2001, trying to get somebody in the West Wing to look at the evidence that a big bin Laden-engineered attack was coming.

  82. 82.

    PhoenixRising

    January 16, 2017 at 11:39 am

    @Aleta:

    -weaken the US Foreign Corrupt Practices Act, which punishes US (and sometimes foreign) co.s that pay bribes to get contracts in foreign countries… Oil/gas cos hate this act.

    Enforcement is already chasing its tail, in preparation for the new administration. I made a good living selling compliance software until about 9 weeks ago. Now operations managers in energy production don’t believe regulations will be enforced, because they know how a GOP congress & W (2003-2007) funded enforcement.

    Buying a POTUS will turn out to be the best investment Putin ever made. Sanctions are coming off, open bribery in the global South to drill everything we know of, Arctic drilling…today’s Russian oligarchs will put the Czars to shame. Too bad about their (and our) grandchildren needing air and water to live.

  83. 83.

    PhoenixRising

    January 16, 2017 at 11:40 am

    @eyelessgame: Richard Clarke. His book ‘Against All Enemies’ is a good primer on what to expect when you’re expecting (another terror attack to be carried out with the GOP’s implicit permission for Team Red’s gain).

  84. 84.

    Aleta

    January 16, 2017 at 11:43 am

    @bemused: I read somewhere that compromising information on the P.e.(e) lost its power once it was exposed. (But it’s sounding like there is more, deeper compromising info that’s unrevealed. Of course, what I read may have been designed to make believers of the story go away, implying that Tr was now free of influence.)

  85. 85.

    Suzanne

    January 16, 2017 at 11:50 am

    @Felonius Monk: “The Trespasser”, by Tana French. Apparently it’s part of a series, the Dublin Murder Squad, but this was the first one I have read in it. I ordered another one from Amazon.

  86. 86.

    Aleta

    January 16, 2017 at 11:51 am

    @PhoenixRising: Thanks for the info. This account (by an internal investigations counsel for an energy co, of a job in Nigeria) might interest you.

  87. 87.

    Kristine

    January 16, 2017 at 12:18 pm

    @bemused: I just wish they would dump it all out there now and delay the inauguration. I think I know why–transfer of power to the Veep (unless he’s ousted too, then Ryan) instead of rumblings for a new election. More orderly, perhaps, but not right if the previous election was tainted.

  88. 88.

    Brachiator

    January 16, 2017 at 12:37 pm

    @randy khan:

    I think at some point the Congressional Republican leadership (using the term loosely) will be faced with the choice of going all in on Trump or openly breaking with him

    The GOP made the decision to go “all in” with Trump during the primary. From now on their strategy is to get the most use out of him that they can.

  89. 89.

    Miss Bianca

    January 16, 2017 at 12:55 pm

    @aimai: With you on this one. Tha’ts why I’m hesitating to go to the Women’s Rally in Denver – from what the Democratic Party chair candidate was saying, she’s secheduled to speak but at the time of the call she didn’t know yet *when* she was scheduled to speak (granted, this was a couple weeks ago, so they may have got their act together by now), and it sounds like they weren’t really welcoming the idea of linking up with the Democratic Party – big mistake, in my opinion, as they’re the only political party that’s got a prayer in terms of meaningful opposition.

    I’m getting a little fed up with the notion – which, as far as I can tell, was fostered by the OWS movement – that somehow just SHOWING UP is the lever that moves the universe, and that “leadership” and “organization” just means you’re part of the system, man.

  90. 90.

    Steve in the ATL

    January 16, 2017 at 1:09 pm

    @Suzanne:

    was thinking of starting “The Gulag Archipelago”

    Good lord–are you not depressed enough already?

  91. 91.

    burnspbesq

    January 16, 2017 at 1:42 pm

    Trump is perverted. Incentives are perverse.

    /pedant

  92. 92.

    burnspbesq

    January 16, 2017 at 1:45 pm

    @Steve in the ATL:

    Solzhenitsyn is like Shostakovich: even when depressing as hell, the work is brilliant. However, I do not recommend listening to Shostakovich while reading Solzhenitsyn; the cumulative effect …

  93. 93.

    Librarian

    January 16, 2017 at 2:17 pm

    @SiubhanDuinne: That and Entry of the Gladiators.

  94. 94.

    Death Panel Truck

    January 16, 2017 at 2:55 pm

    @eyelessgame: As far as the media was concerned, the summer of 2001 was all Chandra Levy, all the time. Not one television news outlet or newspaper gave a shit about terrorism until it happened.

  95. 95.

    SWMBO

    January 16, 2017 at 4:12 pm

    When I went to the grocery store today, I was talking to the cashier and bagger about the inauguration Friday. They were furious about the gutting of the ACA before the election. Especially the pre existing condition part. They were upset that Congress could do this and there was nothing that could stop it. Folks who didn’t vote for the Tangerine Turd and are still going to get hurt by this. This is running bitter and deep since they are talking about it without being prompted. They know people who are getting hurt by this and they want accountability NOW. Now if they can be reminded when it comes time to vote….

  96. 96.

    Mnemosyne

    January 16, 2017 at 4:13 pm

    @aimai:

    FWIW, I went to a small (80 people) rally for a new group here in LA where they very publicly asked Rev. K.W. Tulloss, who’s a member of Rev. Al Sharpton’s action network, to partner with them, and he gladly agreed. New activists partnering with existing activists who can show us the ropes seems to be the way to go here.

  97. 97.

    Jeffro

    January 16, 2017 at 5:39 pm

    @Barbara: @Richard Mayhew:

    I would not assume that Trump will generate the same reactions Bush did.

    The main difference being, Trump is already noted by the public at large as having skipped intelligence briefings and being disdainful of US intel in general. He’s supposedly so much smarter, right? I don’t think that will play well should there be a 9/11 pt 2

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