Senator Joe Manchin (D-WV) is in a horrendous political position of dead incumbent walking. He is a Democrat in West Virginia with an election coming up in 2018. West Virgnia has steadily been going Republican for a generation and it went heavily for Trump in 2016. It is also heavily dependent on Medicaid and the Exchanges because it is a state with a lot of very poor people in it with high health needs.
Earlier this month, Senator Manchin made his comments on the ACA:
Instead of repealing the Affordable Care Act, Congress should work together to fix the parts of the law that don’t work, Sen. Joe Manchin, D-W.Va., told reporters Wednesday.
Manchin said Congress should work on the law “piece by piece,” instead of repealing the entire thing….
He followed up earlier this week reiterating the “Repair” language with Jake Tapper.
This is straight out of the Mend don’t End messaging playbook and I think this also works with a general Democratic defense of the law. LGM has a good preview:
As with all other issues, the default position of the Democratic caucus should be “no.” Make it clear that there will be no initial negotiations on a replacement plan. Hope that the tensions within the Republican caucus either cause the effort to collapse on itself, or results in repeal-and-replace. The longer this drags out, the better the chances of preserving the ACA. Obstruct. Delay. Vote no.
If the Republicans were to offer cosmetic changes to the ACA — slightly less generous subsidies and more rentier skimming for Medicaid, say, but preserving the basic structure of the ACA and making it worse in ways that could be fairly easily fixed by the next Democratic Congress — this would be one of the few instances in which the bad politics of collaborating with Republicans would be substantively beneficial enough to be worth it. But I think this will be a moot point. This would be the smart political play for Republicans, and I suspect McConnell would go along — but I don’t think Ryan will.
The ACA needs a technical correction bill. If Manchin is on board with cosmetic changes that make the bill slightly worse (Copper plan for instance) while getting a host of technical corrections in place (family glitch is the big one) at the trade-off of more Health Savings Account tax breaks, that would be great. I don’t know if that is where Manchin wants to go. But if the most vulnerable Democratic incumbent is on the Repair rather than Repeal kicker, this is good news for caucus unity.
Elizabelle
Plus, his very own daughter is Ms. EpiPen Price Gouger.
RinaX
As you said, let’s actually hear some details from Manchin on what he would like. Having said that, this is why even the most frustrating Dem is better than a Republican for the most part.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Susan Collins is back to saying she can’t go along with repeal without replace. FWIW, a plastic grocery bag on the sidewalk is not currently being blown about in the wind.
SiubhanDuinne
Manchin sure does hate the Manning commutation decision, though.
Baud
Given the state he represents, I’ve always felt we are too hard on Manchin.
Elizabelle
I think if I was in Manchin’s position, I’d be “No fucks left to give” Joe, and let 2018 take care of itself. He might get rewarded for actual authenticity.
Baud
Anyone promoting a 50 state strategy is saying they want more Manchins.
Elizabelle
@Baud: Yeah. It’s a horrible needle to keep threading. Still, better to go down fighting than toadying.
For all we know, Trump and GOP might be in a world o’ trouble in 2018. As might all of us. Le sigh.
kindness
Can we still not like Manchin for being a lousy Democrat in other spheres though?
Patricia Kayden
@Elizabelle: Exactly. Still cannot stand him and I still wonder why he doesn’t just switch over to the Republican Party. He was very nasty towards President Obama and that’s enough to make Manchin persona non grata in my book.
Patricia Kayden
@Baud: Hopefully not. How about picking liberal/progressive candidates and promoting them even if they lose. A bunch of blue dog Democrats in Congress gets us nowhere.
Brachiator
His constituents voted for Trump and have aided those who most want to kill the ACA. Ironically, his constituents would be among those most damaged by repeal of ACA.
His desire to repair ACA are logical, and somewhat self-serving.
Baud
@Patricia Kayden: Who’s going to put themselves through that just to lose?
Richard Mayhew
@kindness: Indubitably we can hate him on multi-metrics but not on healthcare
@Patricia Kayden: ACA and Dodd-Frank and Lily Ledbetter and CARD and DADT repeal would really like to speak with you… a lot more can be done with a mediocre majority rather than an awesome minority.
Yarrow
@Elizabelle:
I’m thinking the same thing. If he’s pretty sure he’s going to lose now, then stand up, grow a spine and loudly be for the people in your state. No more wishy washy. Make healthcare a priority–say you’ll defend it for your WV constituents no matter what. They need Medicaid and it won’t be taken away with your vote. Bullies can’t take it when people stand up to them. So stand up, Joe!
Brachiator
@Patricia Kayden:
Uh, no. Where are you if your candidates don’t win?
I’d rather have blue dogs whose arms I can twist, over Republicans who will not be open to reason or compromise.
Mary G
I would love to hear more from John, Richard, Adam, or any of you jackals why the guy doesn’t just jump ship to the Republicans? But, he voted with the Dems on the wee hours of the morning reconciliation bill, so I don’t hate him.
David Fud
@Baud: Or a Majority Leader with a D after their name…
David Fud
@Patricia Kayden: Again, it gets us a majority leader and the luxury of arguing about whether we can pass watered-down ACA or single payer. That is an argument I would love to be having right about now instead of the one we are having.
XTPD
I’m still waiting to see whether or not he defects on the Sessions vote.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
My beef with that slogan is the implicit assumption that there are candidates– electable, vet-able, willing candidates with no scandals real or imagined– just waiting around to be asked to run. Also the money to run those campaigns.
Turgidson
My issue with Manchin isn’t so much that he’s an unreliable vote – given the state he represents, it is hard to imagine him being a loyal Dem vote on everything (edit – having Byrd and Rockefeller in those seats for so long was totally anomalous in this era). My issue is more with how ostentatious he is in his “independence.” It’s possible to be a heterodox member of the caucus without being such a preening douche about it – look at Jon Tester and Heidi Heitkamp. We lose their votes on things fairly regularly, but they don’t seek out the nearest camera and microphone to brag about it.
That aside, I am also glad Manchin’s friction point on the ACA seems to be “fix what’s wrong with it” right now, and he doesn’t seem to be flirting with helping the GOP find bipartisan cover for their dogged efforts to yank 20-30 million people off their insurance, while falsely promising for another 4 years that the “replace” unicorn will come galloping over the horizon any day now.
chopper
@efgoldman:
it’s right out of ‘maverick’ mccain’s playbook.
kindness
@Richard Mayhew: Please sir. I don’t use the term hate on purpose. Hate weighs on the person who hates. Dislike, loath, disgust are all good though.
For my part I can support the work of someone who is trying to help me for that work but still not support them for a host of other things. And really, Democrats don’t have a Blue Dog problem any longer. Oh sure, there are 4 Senators who aren’t really solid for most Democratic programs. But even Manchin as much a cretin as he is in other areas still doesn’t hold a candle to the likes of Lieberman who I will pee on his grave one day for good cause.
Roger Moore
@Baud:
I’ll take Manchin over Shelley Moore Capito any day of the week. At least he’ll vote our way some of the time.
Baud
@Baud: People seem to be interpreting my remark as a criticism of blue dogs. It was a cricitism of those who promote the 50 state strategy without appreciating the consequences of that approach.
Roger Moore
@Brachiator:
I’ll take logical and self-serving over illogical and self-destructive. I don’t see why it’s a knock against the guy that he’s voting for policies that help his constituents, even if many of them aren’t willing to admit it.
randy khan
@SiubhanDuinne:
That one’s a no-brainer for him, and costs the party exactly nothing.
Zam
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: You are exactly right with the problem of that plan, there just isn’t the kind of money to make it work (especially since the citizens united decision), and quite frankly the vetting process itself won’t even always ensure a decent candidate since it’s pretty damn hard to determine what someone will be like under the stress of an actual campaign.
mai naem mobile
Look I get the 50 state strategy etc. and not being hard on Manchin – whatevs. But, he’s a successful politician and I don’t fucking understand why a guy who was also the governor of the state can’t explain to his constituents the importance of O-Care and voting for Dems. BTW,I wouldn’t be surprised if hes in it.so his precious daughters Mylan CEO income doesn’t stop. My congressional rep is Kyrsten Sinema also a bit of a RINO because I think she’s gunning for Flakes or McCaina seat so I don’t complain much because she’s a smart cookie.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
John Freakin’ Edwards.
randy khan
@Patricia Kayden:
That is not true. Three more like him and things would be much better than they are going to be. Just for starters, we wouldn’t even be having this conversation about the ACA. (We might be having a different one.) And, of course, the filibuster for Supreme Court justices definitely would remain in place and we probably could stop an Alito clone.
Justawrityer
@Baud: My 50 state strategy is that Manchin is the vote you need to override a filibuster, not the guy you need to hang on to plus get a couple of Republicans to defect for a bare majority.
raven
He’s an asshole and he’s stupid. Fuck him.
debbie
To my horror, tiny Pat Tiberi (R-OH) is becoming point man for the GOP’s position on repeal. I don’t think I’m the only one to see a contradition in Tiberi’s answer to this question:
Ben Cisco (onboard the Defiant)
Well, lets see what he does. PBO’s off the clock in three days. If Manchin can go five minutes w/o showing his ass, AND he pushes for hanging on to the ACA, fine. But I’m gonna have to see it to believe it.
Roger Moore
@Mary G:
I would guess there are both emotional and political reasons for not jumping. Emotionally, he probably still feels like a Democrat, even if he’s from a wing of the party that’s largely extinct. Politically, it’s probably still a reasonable choice. If he runs again as a Democrat, he has some chance of winning based on a combination of long-term name recognition, the concrete things he can point to doing to help his state (like voting to protect people’s health care), and not being on the same team as Ill Douche. If he jumps to the Republican party, he’ll always be suspect as an opportunist, and he’ll probably be successfully primaried by a Teabagger anyway.
raven
@efgoldman: It don’t make on fucking bit of difference what either if us want. I heard this shit about John Barrow for years, fuck him too.
Zam
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Yup, I’ve also worked with countless candidates that look great on paper and would probably fly through easy in any kind of vetting process short of what happens for the White House, and they turn out to be complete pieces of shit. Treating their staff poorly, yelling and the tiniest slight.
Brachiator
@efgoldman:
Wake up on the wrong side of the fainting couch this morning? I also said his reaction was logical.
Turgidson
@efgoldman:
Could be. But being a fixture on local news and current affairs programming makes a lot more practical and political sense, especially when you’re a Democrat in a GOP state and need to be seen working for and delivering for your constituents, than waxing idiotic to Beltway lollygaggers like Chucklehead Todd about how disappointed you are in your party’s partisanship.
It seems like Manchin is on the Sunday showz and other national political coverage as often as just about any Democrat. Partly that’s so the Village Dipshits can use him to roll their “Democrats in Disarray!” classics out on a regular basis, and partly it’s because Manchin seems to have the Liebermanesque need to be constantly lionized by Beltway Tastemakers for “resisting partisanship.” I don’t get the impression that Heitkamp and Tester are like that to nearly the same extent.
p.a.
Perhaps we need BlueDog Welfare: if they’re assured of landing on a money filled mattress after an electoral loss they might show more spine while they’re in. Plus it could keep them out of the corporatist-lobbyist-shitshow that results in so much crap legislation.
Yoda Dog Democrat
@raven:
Mayhew makes a very strong argument here, but your counterpoint is equally valid. I concur with you both.
raven
@Yoda Dog Democrat: Yea, me too.
raven
Here’ chew on this
Waka Flocka Wiped His Ass With a Frat Boy’s Trump Jersey at the Georgia Theatre
Brachiator
@Roger Moore:
I think we agree on this, and I’m certainly not knocking the guy on trying to help his constituents.
geg6
@kindness:
Yes, this. I’m not giving up hating on that asshole completely. But good for him on this one issue. Every now again, he backs up into the right thing.
Roger Moore
@p.a.:
I think some counterpart to wingnut welfare would be really helpful. Not only would it help to provide some spinal support for waverers, it would provide people who lose one election a place to recover and get ready to run again, rather than fading into obscurity.
MomSense
All the voice mail boxes seem to be full at Senator Collins’ offices. I’ll try and call again tomorrow. I hope we can pull a few Republicans over to save the ACA.
I’ll talk about my pre existing condition and my concerns about my health but I’m also going to stress that the money I save because of the premium assistance is money I put back into our economy. I’m also going to explain that going without insurance will mean that I can never save enough to cover a catastrophic illness and it also means trying to save a lot more for just prescriptions and school physicals which means a lot less money spent in the local economy.
Patricia Kayden
@Baud: But how progressive/liberal can our policies be if we end up with too many blue dog Democrats? I would hate to see our party turn Republican-lite just to win elections.
Patricia Kayden
@Brachiator: What happens when you can’t twist the arms of blue dog Dems because their constituents don’t support liberal/progressive causes? We’re now possibly looking at blue dog Dems from formerly blue states that went for Trump (PA, MI, WI).
Baud
@Patricia Kayden: Given where we’ll be at the end of four years, what we consider Republican lite today may well be deemed super progressive in the future.
tobie
I’m sorry…I find it tough to work up sympathy for him. I heard him on Meet the Press this evening and he basically said that while he accepted that the Russians *attempted* to influence the election, he did not feel that their attempts had any effect on the outcome. He also criticized Congressman Lewis for questioning Trump’s legitimacy. Manchin will likely lose the 2018 election because he is a Democrat. If he were brave, he could stand for something. I don’t see a commitment to any principles or ideals in this man.
ArchTeryx
In the end, the problem is that it’s been proven over, and over, and over, and over, that being Republican-Lite in a state trending red doesn’t ever save your job. They pick the REAL Republican every single time. What benefit they get I don’t know, other then getting fawned over by the Village for openly dumping on the dirty hippies in the Other Party.
Party switching would simply mark you as a traitor, and nobody trusts a traitor, not even those you betrayed your original group to. Party-switchers pretty much lose the next election nearly 100% of the time. (Independent cranks like Lieberman are pretty much the lone exceptions I can think of).
Playing the game of Crank Contrarian only goes so far, but THAT at least has a chance at success, versus simply voting with Republicans all the time or switching parties. Even extremely red states sometimes do vote in incumbent blue Senators.
Elizabelle
I’m ok with Blue Dog Democrats. If you can elect a more reliable Democratic vote, go for it. But you can’t always get what you want …
That said, I was secretly amused when Mark Warner nearly got his ass handed to him in his last Senate race because he was “Mr. Bipartisan” and the GOP all went home. Tim Kaine would not pull that shit.
raven
Here’s another one:
Baud
@raven: Yeah, Lieberman is a completely different animal than Manchin because CT is very blue. Very glad he’s gone.
Baud
@ArchTeryx: Clare McCaskill would take issue with you.
gene108
@Patricia Kayden:
Republicans did approach Manchin about flipping parties. Manchin said no. He’s a Democrat.
I give him credit for sticking with his convictions here, rather than taking the politically expedient route and become a Republican.
p.a.
Conservatives’ useful idiot. “How can we miss you if you don’t go away.”
hovercraft
@kindness:
Yes, but we should not attack him, we should voice our objections, but not threaten to primary him. The people who need to be attacked relentlessly are people like Andrew Cuomo, people from deep blue states who do not fight for us. Manchin is from a state where most of our platform is anathema to the voters, but when push came to shove, he was with Obama on some of his big accomplishments. Blumenthal was a huge upgrade over Lieberman, who had no excuse for being a complete ass. I’m not saying give Heidkamp (sic), et al a complete pass, we should still try to push them as far left as we can, but don’t attack relentlessly. I would still caution them though to not stray so far to the dark side that they guarantee their defeat. You can buck the party some of the time, but doing it all of the time depresses democratic voters, while not winning you any from the other side, why vote republican light when you can have the real thing?
ArchTeryx
@Baud: Why? AFAIK McCaskill didn’t switch parties and doesn’t vote with Rs all of the time, though she wears a certain Village “moderate” patina. She endorsed Obama, called for party unification behind Hillary and called Trump a buffoon. And she got elected over Todd Akin.
She ain’t Republican Lite, unless I missed something big. She doesn’t even play Crank Contrarian. She just is a bog-standard “moderate” D in a red state.
Baud
@ArchTeryx: Here’s what you said:
Maybe you don’t think she is a Republican-lite, but I’m pretty sure her record is pretty conservative compared to her D colleagues. If I’m wrong about that, I apologize to the Senator.
Patricia Kayden
@Baud: Your candidacy will save us from all that. We’re counting on you.
ArchTeryx
@Baud: Oh, she absolutely votes with Republicans some of the time. That alone doesn’t get you labeled Republican Lite in my book. Doing things like endorsing Republicans in national elections, constantly dumping on your own party, deliberately flipping the bird at your party’s litmus-test votes, and consistently enabling the opposite party’s fillibusters is what gets that tag in my book. AFAIK, she’s done none of those things.
Even Manchin isn’t willing to play ball with ACA repeal, and that’s as glowing neon a party litmus test vote as EVER there has been.
Brachiator
@Patricia Kayden:
What leverage do you have over Republicans? How is a loss better than a victory? How do you ever win if you want a pure Democratic Party that consists only of progressives acceptable to you?
Patricia Kayden
@gene108: Okay. Didn’t know that.
Let me shut up about blue dog Dems. They’re mighty annoying but I guess we’re stuck with them until the country trends more liberal/progressive. Perhaps Trump will make that happen.
Baud
@ArchTeryx: Which Republican did Manchin endorse? He does dump on the Dems a lot (but so do lefties, to be fair), but I don’t know how often he joins filibusters compared to others.
Roger Moore
@Patricia Kayden:
They’ll be a lot more progressive than they would be if those same offices were filled with Republicans. I’ll take a Republican-lite Blue Dog over a full-on Teabagger any day and twice on Sunday.
ETA: And Blue Dogs don’t necessarily stay that way. My former Congressman, Adam Schiff, started out as a member of the Blue Dog caucus, but he’s gradually shifted to become a lot more progressive. They’ll move if/when their constituents push them to move.
ArchTeryx
@Baud: He hasn’t. I wasn’t thinking of Manchin as a current example, more as a potential example. Lieberman is the ultimate Republican-Lite douche, as are the traitor Independent Democrats in the NYS Senate. They both however kept the D label as long as they could, and that was enough to get them re-elected at least once. Lieberman’s schtick, however, finally wore out in CT, about 12 years later then it should have.
Was being Republican Lite enough to save Blanche Lincoln, Mary Landrieu, or Ben Nelson? Nope.
Baud
@ArchTeryx: I agree with the Lieberaman-hate, but your initial comments was about states treading red, and that’s not CT.
Turgidson
@ArchTeryx:
McCaskill is also up for reelection in 2018. If Hillary had won the election and the GOP continued in their happy rut of obstructing every goddamn thing the Democratic administration tries to do, I’d say she was finished. But if she can brand herself as a member of the loyal opposition to the Trumpocalypse, she might grind out another win. She would really benefit if Paul “Zombie-Eyed Granny Starver” Ryan actually tries to fulfill his lifelong dream of killing Medicare and fails, and every Democratic candidate can brag about defending their blue hairs from that bullshit. But given how much of a shitshow their ACA repeal spectacle is becoming, I don’t think Ryan will get his big chance.
Patricia Kayden
@Roger Moore: Alright. True. I still can’t stand Manchin but yes, he’s better than a Republican — even so-called Moderate Republicans like Senator Collins.
tobie
McCain now says he’s leaning to support Tillerson for Secretary of State. This is just so horrible. In addition to his closeness to Putin, he also showed himself to be painfully ignorant about world affairs and woefully unprepared to be Secretary of State. Corruption and ignorance are a terrible combination and he seems to have them both in spades.
debbie
@Baud:
He’s not gone enough.
p.a.
@Baud:
The Onion 2008
Get ready B. You’re up in 2020. Won’t have to wait 8 years, that’s for sure.
Baud
@p.a.: Baud! 2020!: Make American Less Desperate Again!
p.a.
@tobie: Maybe he’s just trying to fit in with the rest of the team.
ArchTeryx
@Baud: Blanche Lincoln, Mary Landrieu, and Ben Nelson are my go-to examples about Republican Lite that failed to save the incumbents. Arlen Specter also lost his bid for re-election after party switching. Jim Jeffords, perhaps the most famous party-switcher in recent history, retired rather then face what was certain to be a losing re-election campaign. Same with our beloved Lieberdouche. I would have paid a month of medicine to see him beaten like a rented mule in a re-election campaign, but alas, he saw the writing on the wall and booked.
p.a.
@Baud: Baud ’20: Last step before Despair!
Baud
@ArchTeryx: I don’t recall Lincoln, Landrieu or Nelson supporting Republicans. Not so sure about the other parts of your test.
ArchTeryx
@Baud: They weren’t campaigning with McCain, that’s for certain, but Lincoln and Nelson were huge impediments to getting the ACA passed, along with Max Baucus (who also retired). Constantly poormouthing it and offering to sustain Republican filibusters. It failed to save any of them.
p.a.
These last few days I’ve gone into a funk almost as bad as the immediate post-election. It’s really fucking happening…
Shalimar
@tobie: The alternative to Tillerson seems to be either John Bolton or Rudy Giuliani. Sure, Tillerson is incompetent and compromised, but at least he isn’t insane.
geg6
@Roger Moore:
I would argue the same for my senator, Bob Casey. He’ll never be a flaming lefty, but he’s been damn good the last eight years. And is full on FOR the ACA and has been a long while.
Patricia Kayden
@tobie: Maverick, y’all!!
Turgidson
@ArchTeryx:
Blanche Lincoln tried to thread the needle by opposing the public option but supporting the ACA once it came to the floor without it. All she really accomplished was getting everybody totally pissed off at her. She drew a major primary challenge and almost lost, then got killed in the general. I don’t know if there was anything she could do to save her seat, but the strategy she executed only served to nail her political grave shut.
Roger Moore
@Shalimar:
That we know of. He doesn’t have the same kind of public track record that we can use to point out how crazy he is.
Patricia Kayden
@p.a.: Huge sigh. But the resistance is happening too so we can take heart at that.
Davis X. Machina
@Roger Moore:
A reverse Arlen Specter, if you will…
mai naem mobile
@p.a.: me too. I just want to close my ears and not hear anything. I really am wondering if it like some post traUma thing like some people were saying . I usually just move on from stuff even if I bitch and moan about it.
AxelFoley
It’s always time to hate on Manchin. Fuck his treacherous ass.
Steve in the ATL
@efgoldman:
Curmudgeon on curmudgeon action–sweet!
raven
@Steve in the ATL: steady in the ranks
catclub
@Patricia Kayden:
Joe Lieberman – or pick your other Democratic asshole senator, was the 60th vote for the ACA. Without him, no ACA. Credit where due.
A Ghost to Most
Judith Fucking Miller tweeted ‘how many died because of Manning?’
Judith. Fucking. Miller.
Baud
@A Ghost to Most: What’s the answer?
Tazj
@p.a.: It’s tough, I know, he’s really going to become president. I have that horrible Republican representative Chris Collins who called John Lewis a child throwing a tantrum, and was thankful Russia interfered in our election because we learned the “truth”. He clearly doesn’t care what the hell he says, just a complete asshole. Why would he care? He is in a district that went strongly for Trump and is majority Republican.
I have to take heart in the protests against repeal of the the ACA, and the Women’s March on Saturday.
A Ghost to Most
Far less than she caused in Iraq with her bullshit reporting.
Baud
@A Ghost to Most: True. I’m just wondering if the answer is zero. I don’t follow this as closely as others, but I haven’t heard of any deaths attributed to Manning.
Chip Daniels
@Baud:
Apparently the hilarious answer is “Judy, its not a contest!”
Baud
@Chip Daniels: Oh, good response.
amk
@Chip Daniels: great retort to that lying pos.
Roger Moore
@Chip Daniels:
Not “Don’t worry, Judy; you’re still way ahead.”?
Eric U.
there is a way to be a blue dog and Manchin doesn’t do it most of the time. It doesn’t pay a blue dog to attack other dems. If an issue is important to your constituency, that’s one thing. Progressives hated my blue dog congressman, but he voted the right way often enough that I was fine with it. Sure wish I could have a blue dog now, I have a dirtbag republican
amk
@Eric U.: rwnj’s manage to get their loons elected. lwnj’s not so much. not even by a long shot.
AxelFoley
@efgoldman:
I don’t care if another Dem never gets elected in WV. Matter of fact, I wish Manchin would officially switch parties. He loves to get in front of the cameras every chance he gets to prove he’s not gonna take any orders from the black guy in the White House, so fuck him.
I’d rather deal with Republicans than shady DINOs like him.
AxelFoley
@catclub:
Yeah, and because of Lieberman, the ACA got watered down and we had to hear from the purity left how it wasn’t good enough and “Kill the bill!” ad nauseum.
Bailey
@Baud:
I’d rather have more Manchins in Nebraska or a Dakota, whose genuine vote we get 50% of the time, rather than zero Manchins whose vote we never get.
sublime33
The 50 state strategy vs. liberal purity shouldn’t be an either / or choice. I live in Tammy Duckworth”s former district that overthrew Phil Freaking Crane 10 years ago. And guess who ran most recently for the Illinois House and Illinois Senate for the Democrats? Nobody. Republicans ran unopposed. So any strategy that encourages any winnable candidate is fine with me.
gwangung
@Roger Moore:
And that’s not on the politicians to do that…that’s on US as liberal and progressive voters to move fellow voters leftward on our own.
Another Scott
@AxelFoley: And yet Lieberman was one of the absolutely required 60 votes that end the filibuster and got the PPACA passed….
As long as the House and Senate leadership are picked by their respective majority party, and as long as the Senate requires 60 votes for cloture to get bills passed, then it’s essential to accept a compromised Democrat rather than a “moderate” Republican if you actually want to see progress. The leadership decides what bills get considered, what the rules of debate are, etc., etc. If you don’t see that every seat is important, and a flawed Democrat is better than any Republican these days, then you’re not seeing the big picture.
Fight like hell for the better candidate in the primary. Fight even harder to elect the Democrat in the fall. In the fall you’re mostly voting for the Senate Majority Leader and the Speaker of the House – not for whether Joe Manchin is a slimeball or not.
My $0.02.
Cheers,
Scott.