While I cannot prove it, it is logical to reason that this information was provided to the McClatchy reporters so that it would be reported before the inauguration on Friday. By getting the information out now, the purpose of the reporting is to make it much more difficult for the incoming Administration to shut this investigation down or to interfere in how it is conducted.
For good, bad, or otherwise this is not going away. And the President-elect and his team seem unwilling to even try to provide reasonable explanations to knock the suspicions back. The longer this drags out the worse it will be. For all of us.
The New York Times has now reported:
WASHINGTON — American law enforcement and intelligence agencies are examining intercepted communications and financial transactions as part of a broad investigation into possible links between Russian officials and associates of President-elect Donald J. Trump, including his former campaign chairman Paul Manafort, current and former senior American officials said.
The continuing counterintelligence investigation means that Mr. Trump will take the oath of office on Friday with his associates under investigation and after the intelligence agencies concluded that the Russian government had worked to help elect him. As president, Mr. Trump will oversee those agencies and have the authority to redirect or stop at least some of these efforts.
And:
The counterintelligence investigation centers at least in part on the business dealings that some of the president-elect’s past and present advisers have had with Russia. Mr. Manafort has done business in Ukraine and Russia. Some of his contacts there were under surveillance by the National Security Agency for suspected links to Russia’s Federal Security Service, one of the officials said.
Mr. Manafort is among at least three Trump campaign advisers whose possible links to Russia are under scrutiny. Two others are Carter Page, a businessman and former foreign policy adviser to the campaign, and Roger Stone, a longtime Republican operative.
And (emphasis added by me):
The decision to open the investigations was not based on a dossier of salacious, uncorroborated allegations that were compiled by a former British spy working for a Washington research firm. The F.B.I. is also examining the allegations in that dossier, and a summary of its contents was provided to Mr. Trump earlier this month.
Representatives of the agencies involved declined to comment. Of the half-dozen current and former officials who confirmed the existence of the investigations, some said they were providing information because they feared the new administration would obstruct their efforts. All spoke on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to discuss the cases.
As Ambassador (ret) McFaul stated:
If they are examining intercepts with Americans, that's serious. Means they went to FISA long ago. https://t.co/2eKqUtgZqN
— Michael McFaul (@McFaul) January 20, 2017
The New York Times’ reporting now confirms not just yesterday’s reporting by McClatchy, but also some of Heat Street‘s reporting on this from last November.
As I’ve written several times: we are off the looking glass and through the map. We have never had a President sworn into office when he and his team are facing two investigations. One from the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence and the other a counter-intelligence investigation conducted by the US Intelligence Community. It also gives credence to Congressman Elijah Cummings’, the ranking member on the House Oversight Committee, statements yesterday.
Davis X. Machina
Nixon used the CIA to muzzle Justice.
Trump will use Justice to muzzle the CIA.
History doesn’t repeat, but it sometimes rhymes.
In this case, history is writing a sestina.
SiubhanDuinne
Twelve hours.
PhoenixRising
I think that sound you hear is former US Senator and SecState John Kerry cackling. He worked on the money laundering legislation designed to target terror funding way back when, and has been aggressive in his current role about State and Treasury cooperating on enforcement, because you can’t have sanctions without enforcement…
Best served cold. Wonder what Paul Manafort wants to drink with his?
Mike in DC
Christ. Part of me wishes we had all just gone off the deep end. The prospect that what we fear actually did happen is very difficult to process.
amk
too little, too late?
Gin & Tonic
Those of us who know Ukraine knew (hoped?) this was coming as soon as Paul Fucking Manafort was brought on board.
rikyrah
hmmm.
Interesting.
CaseyL
Although Russia’s involvement with Trump’s campaign was known months ago, the extent and seriousness were not.
I’m sure there’s a good reason none of this was released before the election, or before the Electoral College certified the results, or while there was still a chance in hell to declare the election null and void. Just please tell me what that reason is.
And if people say, “Well, we’ve never declared an election null and void before!” my reply is, “We’ve never had an Administration that was put in office by a hostile foreign power before, either!”
Trump can close down the investigations as soon as he takes the oath of office. He can issue pardons to himself and everyone else as soon as he takes the oath of office.
Or – and this would really be good for shits and giggles – he can let the investigations go on, let them reveal to the entire world just how much he and his entire Administration are agents of a hostile foreign power… and then watch as the GOP and the MSM normalize that, make it a minor kerfuffle, nothing to get upset about. And the whole thing disappears from public discussion without a trace as “old news – we already covered this.”
Davis X. Machina
If the congressional ‘You get Trump’s scalp, and we get to repeal the New Deal’ deal is already being typed up somewhere — and all it needs is Democrats ambitious enough to sign it, and a press content to chase a magnificent new shiny thing — how far ahead do we really come out?
PhoenixRising
If you feel like being a prankster tomorrow, click here to download an mp3 of the Navy Band playing the national anthem…of Russia.
We’re going to need to make Trump so ridiculous, so despised, so obviously compromised that even House Republicans –who are going to sleep tonight with visions of uninsured children dying of dental abscess dancing in their heads –will be eager to offload the damaged goods.
And this is so clearly unacceptable that President Pence is acceptable by contrast.
Adam L Silverman
@amk: No.
Omnes Omnibus
We fight. In big and small ways. Do what you can. Say no to Trumpism. Stop by a mosque and offer your support. Give what you can where you can. Don’t abide bullying. Call your Congresscritters, good or bad, and give them an attaboy/go girl or ” I am giving you side-eye” as appropriate. We can and must do this.
Adam L Silverman
@Gin & Tonic: And when did I start writing comments about this? The day they announced Manafort was brought on board.
Yarrow
Trump’s supposed to visit the CIA on Saturday.
clay
So, let’s assume that there are some links here that the Intelligence Community finds. And, uh, let’s assume that Congress decides not to give a shit about any of this, so no impeachment. (Crazy, I know!). What practical steps can the IC take to enact justice on Trump and Co?
Westyny
I have been a looong time lurker on Balloon Juice. And I’m compelled to introduce myself because Adam has been so damn impressive in introducing this developing material over the last few weeks. I wish Cole and Cracker were my neighbors, etc. I have mostly hung out on TGOS since the Bush years, and will continue to do so, but I really like you guys. Most of you, anyway. Well, interesting times and all that . . . I don’t think this story can be put away. Marching in NY on Saturday. By that time I hope this story is everywhere and sliming every member of this new crypto-fascist administration. Now does this comment go directly into moderation? ;o)
Omnes Omnibus
@Davis X. Machina: So far the Dems have been standing strong. In rhetoric, at least.
Adam L Silverman
@CaseyL: Trump cannot close down the Senatorial investigation. He has almost none of his team in place, and the temp beachhead personnel that are going to go in have limited authority, as in the career people can and will ignore them. Comey is still FBI Director, not someone the President-elect has picked. And counter-intelligence investigations run silent and deep. Its run by a special team, in DC, and ultimately the oversight is shared by the FBI Director and Director of National Intelligence.
And given that the leakers have stated they’ve done so to prevent this from being shut down, what do you think is going to happen if there is an attempt to shut it down? More and bigger leaks.
PhoenixRising
@Davis X. Machina: Dunno, ask Kim Jung Un how he feels about Mike Pence & we can talk about that. Trump is not just another horrible Republican; the North Koreans are readying a rake for him to step on as I type, and you can count on the response being non-optimal for the goal of still having San Diego to kick around.
I mean, KJU & Pence have lots in common: Radio show popular with citizens stuck in a collapsed economy, oddly affectionate with animals (search for photos of Pence + horses), think an AIDS epidemic is no big, and want loyal citizens to have the freedom to live according to the leader’s religion. Bet they really connect.
Davis X. Machina
@clay:
What happens? Leaking on a scale unseen before in Washington history. The press loves to be played, and isn’t particular about who’s twiddling the keys. Congressional GOP has a come-to-Jesus moment, a la Goldwater and Nixon… It’s not justice, but it’s something.
32% could be a ceiling, not a floor.
randy khan
@Yarrow:
He’ll visit the CIA after the church service, I assume, so that he’s ready to meet his Maker.
CaseyL
@Adam L Silverman: Then my prediction is that the GOP and MSM downplay it as “old news no one cares about,” because they won’t care.
Suzanne
@Davis X. Machina: I am hoping for massive leaking from every agency. On Trump, Tillerson, and all the rest. I want them all shamed.
clay
@Davis X. Machina: That’s kind of what I figured. I’m just nervous about our future depending on the press doing the right thing.
SiubhanDuinne
@Gin & Tonic:
@Adam L Silverman:
Manafart says you’re both a couple of Democrat operatives indulging in Democrat dirty tricks and Democrat lies.
Major Major Major Major
At this point I have no choice but to sit back and watch and visit the ATM so I have some cash just in case.
PhoenixRising
@efgoldman: Now even I’m horrified. There was a child in Baltimore who died from a bad tooth whose mom was on the front lines for CHIP, 12 years ago. These fuckheads still in the GOP caucus, who have the moral compass of a rabid fruit bat, thought that meant the system worked because he died after 12 hrs in the ER, not literally in the street outside.
Adam L Silverman
@clay: What they’re investigating are crimes, covered in the Federal code. Hard to be the President, even if Congress decides not to impeach, if you’ve had bail denied and your passport yanked because you’re facing Federal criminal charges and are considered a flight risk. Which everyone involved with this most certainly would be. They are all wealthy, have massive resources, and would have a desire to flee to safety.
As much as I’m uncomfortable with what is likely to be the domestic and foreign policy of the incoming Administration, as both an American and a national security professional, I wish this was not happening. Or that the President-elect and his team would at least make a good faith effort to put this to bed and move past it instead of constantly seeming to reinforce the story. For instance, one of Ivanka’s guests is the wife of a Russian oligarch with ties to both Putin and the Bratva. Apparently they’ve been friends for years. Because most people are friends with the wives of Russian mobsters.
Adam L Silverman
@Westyny: Welcome. If you’ve been lurking you probably don’t need any warnings about what could happen in the comments…
amk
@clay: yup, the current cabal of corruptest congress critters will do jacksquat about it and the fifth columnist msm will just nod along.
PhoenixRising
@SiubhanDuinne: That’s pretty strong language with a lot of ‘never’, considering that FINRA auditing can show who paid him, in what countries and currencies, when. The money-laundering part of the Patriot Act is the only good part of it–it works to expose international criminal networks. While a FISA warrant may have been scoped to include *what was said*, if they’re smart that may not be damning, but who spent what when…can’t be hidden as easily.
Adam L Silverman
@PhoenixRising: Kim announced an ICBM launch/test tomorrow to coincide with the swearing in.
BBA
@Adam L Silverman: isn’t the President immune to prosecution other than impeachment? Sovereign immunity, the King can do no wrong and all that.
rikyrah
@Adam L Silverman:
your comment about Ivanka is hilarious????
sigaba
@PhoenixRising: @PhoenixRising: Un prolly has better taste in supercars.
sapient
@BBA: What’s the shitgibbon going to do without his minions? If they’re all frogmarched out, he’s a goner.
Omnes Omnibus
@Westyny: ::side-eye::
No really, welcome to the talking part. We are assholes, but we are are also really nice people. Jump in; the water’s fine.
Major Major Major Major
@Adam L Silverman: isn’t that special.
Adam L Silverman
@SiubhanDuinne: Unlike Mr. Manafort, I’ve raised my hand and taken the oath.
Adam L Silverman
@PhoenixRising: They have the Ukrainian ledgers. They have, because its already leaked out, Yanukovych being called on the carpet by Putin about Manafort. And they have the Panama Papers.
Westyny
@Adam L Silverman:
Haha! I’ve seen things . . . terrible things . . .
Adam L Silverman
@BBA: We don’t have a king.
Davis X. Machina
@BBA: Even if he isn’t — and I don’t doubt a newly topped-off Roberts court can find whatever it wants to — he could simply pardon himself and keep on keepin’ on, daring Congress to do anything about it.
That, and rally the brownshirts.
PhoenixRising
@Adam L Silverman: Yup. But as I mentioned earlier, their fur hat game is on point:
https://twitter.com/AlexKing3rd/status/822296977069273088
Adam L Silverman
@Westyny:
http://img10.deviantart.net/f9c6/i/2015/191/e/7/my_foot_tells_me_things_____evil_things_by_thedraweronetwothree-d90qwu8.jpg
Suzanne
@Major Major Major Major: I am scared that there is just nothing we can do about this Russian interference. They are going to get away with it and Trump and his cronies and his family will never be punished for it. GOD. It just kills me.
Timurid
@Adam L Silverman:
Yet.
Omnes Omnibus
@BBA: Nope.
Cthulhu
@Westyny: Welcome. Having been here, mostly lurking, for years and years, this place will only raise your blood pressure a bit.
SiubhanDuinne
@Yarrow:
Before or after the National Prayer Service?
Westyny
@Omnes Omnibus: My kind of assholes, for the most part. I’m a long time member Assholes Anonymous.
Xenos
The most interesting detail is the almost causally mentioned investigation into bank transfers, somehow, between the Trump campaign and Russia. The range of money laundering, wire fraud, and sanctions regulations involved in this would be the barb on the hook. Everything else could be cast as innocent discussions, but when illegal bank transfers are happening the various political defenses will be much less effective. And the criminal penalties are quite serious.
Adam L Silverman
@PhoenixRising: Can’t have Dear Leader’s head getting cold…
amk
@Adam L Silverman: Unfortunately, the voters, in their fucking infinite wisdom, have blown away all the checks and balances. All 4 pillars are now infested with corrupt critters and courtiers.
Lizzy L
@PhoenixRising: And in a grey room at 1111 Constitution Avenue in Washington D.C. (the headquarters of the IRS) some very quiet people are nodding.
SciNY
@Adam L Silverman: I’m trying to follow along on my bingo card. I can see how FBI & other agencies come up with evidence of indictable crimes. But wouldn’t that prosecution depend on the AG’s (and Trump’s) willingness to go along? And if Sessions & Trump say it’s all bogus & politically motivated, is there any recourse?
Westyny
@Cthulhu: But then Adam sends a cute kitteh picture and it comes right down.
PhoenixRising
@Adam L Silverman: They’ve got plenty to go on. The deep state ain’t gonna be fucked with, and Little Fingers is so damn stupid he had to give the electric fence a golden shower for himself. Early morning PST on 11/9, he looked like someone had explained to him that the NSA actually shot Kennedy and could do the same for him, but by later in the day he was exuberantly foolish again.
But for the North Koreans, I’d be popping some popcorn. Maybe I’m overconfident in Russian and Pakistani security, and both or either is vulnerable to the unintentional signals Trump and his posse can’t stop giving off, but please don’t tell me if you think so.
Suzanne
@efgoldman: I know. I just am so unbelievably angry, and I want them to be humiliated. Just eaten up with self-loathing. I wish I knew how to make it happen.
tobie
@Adam L Silverman:
Who prosecutes such crimes? I’m assuming the DOJ, and I find it hard to imagine that Jeff Sessions, should he be approved as AG, would prosecute Trump or any of his associates. He’s loyal to his clan/Klan, not the constitution.
EDIT: Oops…Just saw that SciNY expressed this concern more coherently than I could.
Omnes Omnibus
@Davis X. Machina: I am tired of this parade of helplessness coming from the left. Just every one stop it. There are avenues of resistance. Let’s use them. Force him into absurd defenses like pardoning himself. Let’s fucking try to win. Do I have to post the Animal House stuff?
Timurid
@Omnes Omnibus:
Was it over when the Russians bombed Pearl Harbor?
clay
@Adam L Silverman: I guess what I want to know is WHO, exactly, will be arresting and prosecuting them. Can the CIA do that? Will the DOJ do it? I guess the FBI can, but they seem to be compromised.
I don’t want this to be happening either even though it was extremely fucking predictable months ago. I guess I’ve had my faith in our institutions shaken enough that I just don’t know where to turn to see hope.
Bobby D
I have this fantasy dream.
Notorious RBG, being close to shuffling off the mortal coil, no fuks left to give, pulls a .45 at the inauguration, blows gaping holes in Trump, Comey, Alito, Thomas, and Pence’s skulls, walks to the podium, clears her throat and offers up a “You’re Welcome, America” drops the mic and strolls off to her awaiting limo.
Adam L Silverman
@SciNY: @tobie: Omnes or one of the other resident legal eagles will need to weigh in, but my understanding is that 1) the decision will be made by the professional/career prosecutors who are assigned to oversee the counter-intel investigations and prosecutions and 2) there will be great pressure brought to bear on Sessions, should he be confirmed, which is what seems will happen, to recuse himself because he will have an ethical conflict about ruling on potential prosecutions of the people that gave him his job. Finally, if they try to squelch it, it will all be leaked. When the Bush 43 folks tried to get the US Attorneys to prosecute Democratic officials/candidates as part of an electoral strategy cooked up by Karl Rove on behalf of GOP office holders/candidates they ran into some US Attorneys that took their jobs seriously. When they then decided to go after them, it leaked. These folks never learn: if you try for a cover up it will leak. It always does.
Omnes Omnibus
@clay: DOJ.
BBA
@SciNY: Remember Nixon’s Saturday Night Massacre? We’ll be having one of those every week.
It’s true, there are statutes preventing Trump from firing civil servants, but (a) he’s never let that stop him before (b) he has Congress in his pocket and can make the Pendleton Act go away and (c) if all else fails, just shoot them and pardon yourself.
(Yes this is all absurd bullshitting, but absurd bullshitting is how Trump operates. It’s going to be a long few years.)
Davis X. Machina
@clay: Trump is the superior of everyone who could arrest him, at least for a federal crime.
When the Constitution was written, we gave ourselves an elected king. And the king can do no wrong.
planetjanet
@Adam L Silverman: But didn’t Flynn say he was going to eliminate the DNI. One down, one to go.
PhoenixRising
@Omnes Omnibus: Thank you. Get to mocking, folks. If there aren’t Russian flags along the parade route, I’ll be disappointed. Step 1 is to help the 68% who disapprove of him feel in their bones that they are right, part of a majority and patriotic enough to fight for their democracy by doing more than voting every 4.
I’ll reveal steps 2-97 next week. We can only do #`1 now (see how I laid in a pee joke there?).
GregB
Trump literally forecasts every aspect of his venal, horrible thoughts and desires.
It is why I put very little past him.
But I also think that hubris will do them all in.
Talk about smug and unaccountable.
I know that we can’t take 4 full years of his self-fellating and of Riefenstahl Spice’s poor me stop victimizing the powerful and the elite, they can’t take it.
Not to mention he has everyone in the world hoping he’ll fail and will help him do just that.
Lizzy L
@Omnes Omnibus: THANK YOU. I am really bored with the despair and the whining. It is not the end of the world; we are not all about to be marched into gulags.
Omnes Omnibus
@Adam L Silverman: If the shit that is coming out is marginally real, no US attorney would fail to file. Unless, s/he is a complete toady.
Millard Filmore
@Adam L Silverman:
Obama is still President for a few more hours, he has been getting intelligence reports. Would he know how deep Trump and the Republican Party are involved in this? Is this why he has been so damn chipper and unworried these last few weeks?
Also Adam, for your amusement:
flyingsquadron(dot)com/forums/topic/13965-the-foglesong-thread/
I must have gotten there from alternatehistory of millitaryhistory
Aussie Sheila
@Adam L Silverman:
Actually you do. Your President is both Head of State and Prime Minister (in the Parliamentary sense). The US founders decided to have a monarch, but elected in accordance with a franchise and schema for representation that they believed would ensure the elimination of the unruly mob from the monarch’s selection.
I love you lot, but truly, you are in your own US bubble here. Where I come from, the conduct of your elections and the gross suppression of the franchise and proper districting has not been possible since Federation in Australia.
Much as I would have walked over hot coals to support Clinton, I am afraid that I do not agree that tRump is ‘illegitimate’. He won. By the rules. The rules of your polity, no matter how regrettable the result.
Bobby Thomson
Trump doesn’t give a shit. He’ll shut it down immediately.
Mike J
@Omnes Omnibus: So maybe 50/50 chance?
Adam L Silverman
@efgoldman: They’ll want it tied up tight. If you come for the king, you best not miss.
My take is that the leaks are to 1) create pressure to make it too hard/unseemly to shut things down after tomorrow, 2) begin to make people sweat – the named three and the unnamed others referenced in the article, in order to 3) make the whole crowd begin to wonder who can and can’t be trusted, who might or might not have been flipped already or who would be willing to in order to save themselves. Scared and nervous people make mistakes. The President-elect and the people around him prize loyalty and are paranoid about disloyalty. This is all intended to rattle them. Just as the disclosure about the Flynn phone call was. There’s only three ways that info becomes known: the Trump folks put it out – they didn’t, the Russians put it out – they didn’t, we have SIGINT from communications going into and out of the Russian Embassy in DC – this is the only one left. And if they’ve got the signals intercepts of when the calls happened and how many there were, then they’ve got the contents of the calls. That leak was to make both Flynn and the Russians sweat. Put them on notice: “we know when you’re talking and now you know that and know that what allows us to know that allows us to know what you all are saying.” If the intercepts were all about holiday greetings, the leak would never have happened.
Omnes Omnibus
@Lizzy L: Let’s all talk to one another. There is a resistance. Let’s do it. Some of it is the word “no.” The rest is a fight. Do what you can.
SiubhanDuinne
@Millard Filmore:
And now I’d really like to see a transcript of the phone conversation he had with Angela Merkel today.
Davis X. Machina
@Mike J: They can have the heart of a lion, but the law is not self-enforcing…
Bobby Thomson
@Omnes Omnibus: Trump will make sure only toadies are there.
frosty
@Westyny:
Welcome to Balloon-Juice, lurking jackal! You’ll fit right in.
ETA: I’m with you 100% on Adam’s posts. I’m learning a lot.
Adam L Silverman
@clay: US counter-intelligence is a shared responsibility between the Intelligence Community and the FBI. The FBI handles the domestic, criminal investigative side. The IC handles everything else. The FBI’s CI folks are a special unit that works out of DC. This isn’t the NY Field Office. On the FBI side they report to the Director and there are a specific set of career/professional prosecutors assigned to work CI. On the IC side they report to the Director of National Intelligence.
Omnes Omnibus
@Mike J: @efgoldman: W’evs.
ETA: I cannot do negativity. Emotionally I can’t. Tomorrow scares the fuck out of me.
sukabi
@Suzanne: can’t humiliate a sociopath. Don’t care about humiliation, I want them tried and jailed.
LOCK THEM UP!!!
Lizzy L
@Omnes Omnibus: Fair enough. We all do what we can do. Long day tomorrow — gotta get some sleep. Good night, jackals.
Adam L Silverman
@planetjanet: Senator Dan Coats is the designated nominee for the position of Director of National Intelligence. I think his hearing is scheduled for sometime towards the end of next week.
Adam L Silverman
@Omnes Omnibus: I’ve never worked CI, but my understanding is the folks that do, from the FBI side to the IC side to the prosecutors that handle the cases do not mess around and are not toadies.
Adam L Silverman
@Millard Filmore: I have no idea what the President will do between now and the inauguration. I would assume sleep and breakfast will likely be part of his plans.
Westyny
@frosty: Insert thumbs up emoji here. “Jackal,” I like that. Decades ago I wrote a letter to the then useful Village Voice referring to mimes as “jackals of silence.” I’m less aggressive these days.
GregB
Did anyone see this report about Senator Warner beating Sen. Burr into submission? Basically got Burr to relent and agree to the Senate investigation.
Good job Mr. Warner.
The Dems won’t let this go.
Yarrow
@Adam L Silverman:
Does the president have/use/need a passport? Never thought of that before.
Westyny
@Adam L Silverman: These breaking stories should provide for some nice theatrics at that hearing. And I mean “theatrics” in the optimal sense.
Adam L Silverman
@Aussie Sheila: No we do not. Yes, the position combines head of state and government, but the position is the executive in a shared power system. Yes, it is true that since Lincoln, and even more so since FDR, more and more power has been consolidated within both the Executive Branch and the Executive himself. But this is neither the way things are supposed to be, nor is it a given that it has to remain this way. And despite the Green Lantern theory of the Presidency, the President is not a monarch – limited or not.
As to your other point: I agree what we do in terms of elections and voting is an absolute disgrace.
Finally, have you ever seen me, in comment or in post, state that the President-elect was not legitimately elected? Unless/until the CI investigation is completed and produces criminal charges that would indicate otherwise, the President-elect was chosen legitimately whether anyone likes it or not based on the system we have and how it is set up.
Davis X. Machina
@Yarrow: He does not. Sovereigns don’t carry passports.
KS in MA
@Omnes Omnibus: THIS!!!
Adam L Silverman
@frosty: Thanks!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3cb09hVH_g
(2:30 mark sums it all up)
Adam L Silverman
@efgoldman: I’m pretty sure Roger Stone doesn’t do prison. He’s managed to keep himself out, despite being way on the wrong side of the line over and over and over, all these years.
H.E.Wolf
@Bobby D:
The Notorious RBG, in her own words:
“Reacting in anger or annoyance will not advance one’s ability to persuade.”
Yarrow
@Adam L Silverman:
He only values loyalty to him. He has no loyalty to others, with the possible exception of his children. Any one of these people he decides is a liability will be tossed to the wolves. If they think he’ll be loyal to them they are delusional.
Adam L Silverman
@Yarrow: Yes, he’ll get one of the diplomatic ones. When he arrives, wherever he travels abroad, an aide will handle all the entry stuff for him – they don’t make him stand in line.
Millard Filmore
@Adam L Silverman:
Not quite what I meant. I do not expect him to do anything, or he would have by now. He is acting like this is no big deal, things will work out before we go too far over the event horizon.
NotMax
@efgoldman
The Rosenbergs were tried for and convicted of conspiracy to commit espionage, not treason.
Adam L Silverman
@Davis X. Machina: The President of the United States is not a/the sovereign.
Omnes Omnibus
@Westyny: Mimes, like clowns, are scary. Nevertheless, I am going to bed now. Pick up the torch and run with it.
amk
The only way to beat these corrupt fuckers is at the polls. In massive numbers. A 56% turnout in a do-or-die election is pathetic.
Adam L Silverman
@Millard Filmore: If you’re expecting the President to be something he isn’t and has never been, you’re going to be sadly disappointed. The President has always acted consistent with someone who believes that the process, regardless of the issue, needed to play out according to the official rules (laws, regulations, policies, and guidelines). Often to his own political, policy, and strategy detriment.
Major Major Major Major
@Westyny: welcome! Though I must say I don’t see much crypto in their fascism.
GregB
@Yarrow:
Chris Christies nods slowly in agreement.
Aleta
Posting parts of this again, by Susan Hennessey and Benjamin Wittes, in Lawfare
Davis X. Machina
@Adam L Silverman: Up until now, and this President. The next one? Andrew Jackson levels of deference to law and norms, if we’re lucky.
Omnes Omnibus
@Adam L Silverman: Our current president believes in our institutions.
Yarrow
@Adam L Silverman: Thanks. I didn’t know that.
@GregB: Heh. I wonder what Chris Christie is thinking now. Someone speculated that he did a deal with Trump’s team to avoid prosecution for the Bridgegate stuff. Wonder how that will work out going forward.
frosty
@Adam L Silverman:
I couldn’t have said it better myself!
Westyny
@Omnes Omnibus: I’m turning in, too. A new couch is coming in the morning. After teaching at Rutgers for ten years I’ve finally made a move across the Harbor from Brooklyn to Middlesex County and I am in a state of shock. So many reasons . . . Keeping the “NY” in my handle, no matter what anybody says. Grrr.
Adam L Silverman
@Aleta: You do understand that what McClatchy reported yesterday, the NY Times today, and even Heat Street back in November before the election, is not based on the oppo research that leaked out and that Hennessy and Wittes are referring to? What the Times, McClatchy, and Heat Street is the result of investigations that started well before that oppo research began circulating, in fact well before most of the information in the report was collected. Based on what was known ten days ago, they are absolutely correct. Based on what is now known, what they wrote is no longer operable.
Adam L Silverman
@Davis X. Machina: No argument here.
sukabi
@Adam L Silverman: well, if we’re placing bets on who will flip first…I’ll go with Manafort first, he’s been very quiet / scarce since Dec. Next will be Stone…he’s such a self serving sleeze and you’re right he manages to keep himself out of prison very well, he must tell very interesting stories.
Millard Filmore
@Adam L Silverman: I am not expressing myself well. I think Obama is relaxed because of what he knows and others will act on, not because of what he could do himself.
SiubhanDuinne
@Adam L Silverman:
Wasn’t Roger Stone one of Roy Cohn’s associates? Wasn’t it through Cohn that he met Trump in the first place?
I am tired and uncomfortable and, like most of us, filled with a sense of pending doom and chaos, so it is quite possible I’m thinking of someone else. In any case, not an agreeable person.
Adam L Silverman
@Omnes Omnibus: Yep. Despite Congressional Republicans and GOP State Attorneys General both screaming otherwise and filing suits based on their misbelief.
Adam L Silverman
@frosty: Whenever school got too much, I used to rewatch that movie.
Adam L Silverman
@Millard Filmore: Okay, tracking now. Carry on!
Adam L Silverman
@SiubhanDuinne: Yep. And yep.
Bobby D
@H.E.Wolf: Not trying to persuade anyone in this case…persuade them to stop breathing maybe. A boy can dream.
Dog Dawg Damn
If they go after Trump, he will go after Hillary.
That this isn’t obviously true to everyone is beyond me, but it’s what he said he would do all along. Roger Stone *blatantly* said this. There is going to be a bigger showdown than we can imagine, if they pursue this.
frosty
@Westyny:
Surprised no one else replied: Look for the rotating tagline: “A refuge for a snarling mass of vitriolic vicious jackals.”
Can’t remember which pundit/idiot referred to Balloon-Juice that way.
Aleta
@Gin & Tonic: >Those of us who know Ukraine knew (hoped?) this was coming as soon as Paul Fucking Manafort was brought on board.<
You could tell by that first photo of him blinking in the daylight.
Yarrow
@Adam L Silverman:
He is such a creep. Remember when he “left the campaign”? What was all that about? Does it relate to this stuff in any way?
He may not “do prison” but at some point do people not get a choice?
Adam L Silverman
@Bobby D: Let’s keep the snuff fantasies in abeyance, okay? It wouldn’t be amusing if we switched Justice Ginsberg for Justice Alito and the President-elect, Vice President-elect, Chief Justice, etc to Democrats. Or Republicans other than the ones you listed.
Adam L Silverman
@frosty: I think it was someone at NRO.
Major Major Major Major
@frosty: I wanna say mcardle.
fuckwit
“Respect the process” my muthafucking ass.
Fuck that guy. How about repecting the process of independently and aggressively investigating serious fraud and malfeasance? Which the Rethugs aren’t doing. At all.
I don’t want to be “a witness to history”. I watched Nixon resign on live TV, the crooked fuck. That’s some fucking history I don’t need to witness again. Or worse, the swearing in of the orange Berlusconi.
Adam L Silverman
@Yarrow: Stone is a 60 something year old bodybuilder reported to be on hormone replacement (at least) who, with his wife, is a staple of the South Florida swingers scene. By doesn’t do prison, I mean he has an amazing ability to not get swept up when others around him/that he’s involved with do get prosecuted. My guess is he’s got a long history of being a snitch as a way to keep himself from feeling the repercussions of the actions he’s been involved with. If this is the case, then he’ll play to type.
Joey Maloney
What I don’t think a lot of people get is, this behavior has already been “normalized” – by GOP projection. They’ve been accusing Obama and before him Bill Clinton of all the things that Trump is actually guilty of. Never mind that those accusations are believed by a wide swath of our electorate. The accusations themselves are well-integrated into the discourse. They’re not prima facie shocking. And the dismissal by “so what, Obama was a traitor too” is not laughed out of the room.
Aleta
@Adam L Silverman: The point of that article was not the ‘opposition research,’ even though they used the attention being paid to it a week ago to lead in.
Yarrow
@Adam L Silverman: Yeah, I kind of guessed that was what you meant. I do think that at some point, for some people, things catch up with them. Maybe he’ll snitch and get off without prison time. Or maybe this time he won’t be so lucky. I guess we’ll have to see how it plays out.
I’d guess that Trump has stuff on Stone as well.
Dog Dawg Damn
@Joey Maloney: I’ve been concerned about this, but at the end of the day, most people realize the FBI is not their uncle’s chain email. There is a vast difference in credibility to the charges.
Major Major Major Major
@Dog Dawg Damn: do most people, though?
David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch
What bothers me is they got rid of Manafort on August 19th, which means someone in the FBI tipped off the Trump campaign about the FISA warrants.
SiubhanDuinne
@frosty:
@Adam L Silverman:
@Major Major Major Major:
Ha! I was thinking it was John himself!
He did once refer to us as “a dyspeptic, curmudgeonly, and off color community.” Link (interesting background read).
Adam L Silverman
@Yarrow: It has been reported multiple times that Trump keeps info on a large number of people.
Dog Dawg Damn
@Adam L Silverman: We might be seeing an internal war between intelligence agencies (or at least factions within them).
The factions in NY will go after HRC with Trump’s approval to distract and make the whole thing just a partisan equivalence.
kdaug
@frosty:
*Raises hand*. Long time ago, when I was but a wee cudlip.
fuckwit
@SiubhanDuinne: I’m pretty sure he’ll get those briefings even as an ex-president. I think Shrub is still getting them.
Adam L Silverman
@David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch: They got rid of Manafort because the Ukrainian government released information on ledgers kept by Yanukovych showing large payments to Manafort. Additionally, there were links to Manafort in the Panama Papers. And the press was reporting on it. So they officially got rid of him. He lives in Trump Tower. So he, like Stone, like Lewandowski, were never really gotten rid of.
kdaug
John had asked us how we would describe our little community (~2008-09?)
Adam L Silverman
@Dog Dawg Damn: I doubt it. It was reported that a lot of the most senior people in the NY Field Office were coming up on retirement at the end of 2016 and that the pressure and leaks were a way out the door attempt to finally get HRC. Moreover, the US Attorney in NY won’t go for a prosecution and he’s already been told he’s being kept on.
Adam L Silverman
@fuckwit: No, former Presidents only get briefed on things that may impact they and their families security. Unless they’ve been asked to serve as a special envoy, which, for instance President Bush 41 and Clinton did for President Bush 43. In that case they were read onto whatever they needed to complete their assignment. Former Presidents do not get the PDB that the sitting/current President gets.
Joey Maloney
@Dog Dawg Damn: FBI? The FBI that holed Clinton below the waterline? CLEARLY both sides doit.
EBT
@Adam L Silverman: Lots of things are only funny when they happen to awful people.
sukabi
One of the Russian hackers was arrested in Spain..
Major Major Major Major
@EBT: still not funny IMO but YMMV. However, we should keep such writings off the open web when possible with a malevolent administration coming in.
Yarrow
Trump always gives away the game.
Irony Abounds
I will be shocked if anything comes of this, not because nothing nefarious happened, but because any serious investigation will be shut down. Even before Trump was President the FBI was willing to crap on Hillary and keep Trump’s stuff quiet. Now with the Asshole in Chief in charge people will be afraid to take any action. This will be the Democrat’s unicorn – something magical that never seems to amount to anything.
Mnemosyne
@Adam L Silverman:
I guess it depends on how one defines “legitimately.” IMO, this is like finding out that the other team won by poisoning our quarterback the night before. Sure, they may have won on the field, but they only got that win by cheating off the field (in this case, by preventing our fellow American citizens from voting).
Gretchen
@Westyny: Good to meet you!
EBT
@Major Major Major Major: Well obviously guy upstream expressing it was doing a dumb thing expressing that thought.
bluehill
I’m not getting my hopes up about these investigations. If the info to date hasn’t gotten congress to act, then I can’t imagine that anything else that is uncovered will unless it causes the vast majority of the public to push for action. The threat of losing their jobs and power not love of country is only thing that I think will cause them to respond. Plus we don’t know what kind of pressure the administration will apply once they are in power. I imagine it will be significant and only a little will be visible to the public.
As for Trump, he better keep the Russians happy. If they decide to replace him with another lackey, it will be ugly.
Morzer
@Omnes Omnibus:
The number of Americans who have already rejected Trump far outweighs those who voted for him. There are signs of regret among some of the softer Trumpzi elements. Repeal of Obamacare is not going well. Trump has worse approval ratings at this point than any president in recent history – by anything between 20 and 40 points. Things will not get better for him or the GOP, especially since they haven’t done the basic work of staffing the various government departments with competent subordinates who can do the work for which fuckwits like Carson lack the cognitive capacity. Hell, they couldn’t even put together a decent inauguration ceremony! Disaster is rolling down towards Trump and he doesn’t have the popularity or the credibility to ward it off. Trump has more reason to fear us than we have to fear him. He’s been a worthless little con-artist all his life and his one priority has been to run fast enough to stay ahead of the debt-collectors. Let’s give him more reasons to be afraid of the American people and watch how long it takes him to crack and flee for the hills. A cold, golden rain is going to fall and Trump’s got no umbrella.
Aussie Sheila
@Adam L Silverman:
I don’t want to get in a pissing match here, but ‘Head of State’ in the 18th C sense was/is the Monarch, or his / her appointed representative in a colony. The head of government is of course, the person who commands a majority in the Parliament (irrespective of how democratic that body may be).
The idea of ‘shared power’ between the Congress, the Senate and the Presiedent gives the game away.
I am a small ‘r’ republican in my country, but I wouldn’t swap your disfunctional C18th arrangements, jerry rigged to meet the needs of a modern state, for anything in the world.
When the Prime Minister fails to hold the confidence of his/her party, or the Parliament, she/ he is gone is a ‘New York’ minute in a Parliamentary system.
I prefer the primacy of democratically elected parliaments, and their untrammelled ability to actually govern, until the next election, to the perpetual, unceasing campaigning of three levels of equally disfunctional and vetoable governing points, none of whome it seems, is actually able to do anything which appears to be the US system.
Most of all, I think the US system f$&@s over the powerless and the poor in the US in ways which are rapidly becoming incomprehensible to the rest of the advanced democracies.
Apologies if I sound strident , but I just cannot believe the disfunctionality of the US system, and it’s none of my business in one sense, but in another, the whole world is imperilled by its jerry rigged nature, especially my country, because we jump in every time the US decides to have itself another ‘war for free dumb’ .
Cheers and good luck-we all need it.
MisterForkbeard
@Mnemosyne: I’d have to say that Trump legally won the election, but isn’t “legitimate” in the sense that Republicans screwed with voting rules (morally and ethically wrong) and apparently Trump collaborated with foreign powers in possibly illegal manner to influence the election.
He still “won” the contest, but he’s definitely open up to many other remedies. Impeachment, for one. And that would cause a lot of problems for republicans, especially given that republican leadership is on the record as refusing to let the public know about the Russian connection and threatening to call it partisan politics. They’ll be heavily damaged as well, should any of this go further.
Major Major Major Major
@Aussie Sheila: much of what you’re complaining about is the result of compromises (structural bribes really) needed to bring on board people who thought that owning other human beings was a perfectly legitimate thing to base everything on. You kind of make it sound like it was intentional.
Anne Laurie
@sukabi:
Roger Stone (one of the original Nixon CREEPsters!) is such a sacful of pus in a skin suit, I’d bet a store-bought cookie he was the stoolie here.
Stone’s got no allegiance to the country, or the rule of law, but he’s managed very nicely at keeping himself out of jail for the past 40-plus years. And while he’s no doubt been making bank couriering between ‘Wikileaks’ (Putin) and the President-Asterisk, he knows that when it comes to ratfvcking, Trump’s primary allegiance is to his Breitbart Rasputin Steve Bannon.
I can see him flipping on Manafort/Bannon/Assange, walking away with a slap on the wrist for services rendered, and promptly announcing a nationwide tour: “I was a loyal Trump guy until — shock horror — I discovered he was surrounded by traitors and criminals!”
Morzer
@Anne Laurie:
Stone is a selfish hedonist who will never jeopardize his disgusting pleasures by turning on people like Manafort and Bannon.
sigaba
@Aussie Sheila: The US president is regarded as a combination of a head of state and head of government– the US legislative leaders are deprived of most of the powers a head of government usually has: administration and law enforcement, and supreme command of the military tonnage a few. The US is one of the few modern nation-states where this role ISN’T divided between a Prime Minister and some titular figurehead type.
mai naem mobile
Is this the stuff that Obama/Ryan/McConnell/Feinstein/Schiff/Comey/Brennan discussed and didn’t want a combined statement on or is this info that was collected later? I don’t even have the words to express to what i want to say about Obama,the Republicans and Comey if this info is old.
Major Major Major Major
@mai naem mobile: If this is FISA-based stuff then it’s old.
Anne Laurie
@Morzer:
And Whitey Bulger was a stand-up guy who’d never turn snitch on his people.
Until, y’know, the rewards for doing so outweighed the ‘indignity’ of breaking his oath.
Stone’s skated away on so much filth over the past 40 years, I’m fully prepared to find out he’s been taking IC money all along. It wouldn’t exactly be the paymaster agency’s best hire, but then, as far as we know Roger Stone’s never murdered anyone with his own hands.
Calouste
@sigaba: Not that few states actually. Almost all of South America and significant parts of Africa and Central Asia also have a Presidential system similar to the US.
Morzer
@Anne Laurie:
Whitey Bulger had some reason to believe that his new protectors/masters could keep him safe. Where does Stone get that assurance from? Putin’s agents have killed without compunction or any sort of constraint, both in Russia and the wider world. I don’t see Stone taking that big a gamble with his remaining years, especially for principles that he clearly doesn’t believe in.
SectionH
This time of night, msgs I broadcast:
People who are marching on Saturday, whether in DC or in one of the more than 600 (yes, srsly!) Sister Marches: there are several times as many people who’d love to march with you but can’t for many reasons.
A dear friend, who’s cared enough all her life to march for good causes, offered to take a list of her friends who couldn’t march with her on Saturday, and a lot of us took her up on it. A lot of us. (I’m still sniffling too, but I’m sure that was just some dust in the air.)
Anyway, if you are going to be at a march, please consider posting on your own wall, friends locked if you want (I would, tbh) that you’ll take a list of any friends who can’t go with you when you walk on Saturday, and keep them in mind.
Resist.
SectionH
And the best message of all (so far!) from x
To all my friends who will be marching tomorrow and who have offered to carry the names of those friends unable to attend. Please add me to your list. Since I will be unable to be somewhere marching, I wish to be everywhere…..
Anne Laurie
@Morzer:
“Principles”, phht. I see Stone taking the gamble that it’s better to sing sweetly to the National Security Committee (from whom, IMO, he’s been taking snitch money for many years) than to risk getting caught in a shooting match between our guys and Putin’s guys. He seems to love The Game for its own sake, advertising himself as a swashbuckling tattoo’d rascal always capable of playing both ends against the middle & coming out unscathed.
With so many new young thugs coming up in the fast lane — all the Breitbrats & True Believers — I can imagine him seeing this as his grande finale before he disappears into witness protection.
Aussie Sheila
@sigaba:
In a modern (post 19 th C ) parliamentary system it isn’t divided. The head of government (the Prime Minister commanding a majority in the House of Representatives) has complete control over the armed services, (subject to the agreement / support of the majority of said House).
The head of State, in my country titled ‘Governor General’ , acts in accordance with the advice of the Prime Minister. There was a contretemps in 1975 in Oz when the Prime Minister was ‘sacked’, due to a range of actions which I won’t bore you with here. That won’t/ can’t happen again, but in any case, command of the armed forces has always, since Federation, been firmly a matter of command of the democratically elected Parliament, and the majority who commands the vote at the time.
Do not be deceived by the ‘trappings’ of a system that has been re bored for democracy since 1901. The Parliament (the House of Representatives, the majority that controls the Executive), is the sole legitimate commander of the Armed Forces of Australia, not the GG, and least of all the Monarch. There simply is no institutional mechanism that gives the Head of State the authority to command the Exective in that way.
Of course the GG gets to parade and open and close things-but he/she has no control whatsoever over the deployment, the reasons for deployment or any other matter that goes to the security of this country.
Cheers
Morzer
@Anne Laurie:
I think you’ll find that Stone has three priorities: staying alive, sex, money. None of those things will be enhanced by betraying Trump or his henchmen. Stone will die old and despised in his bed and be perfectly content with that.
PIGL
@Bobby D: I do t think anything less that will save you. The real agenda of dismantling America m, set forth in an earlier thread, willl coninue. This is enabled by 80,000 votes cast in a compromised election. The real democracy cannot survive whipsaws like this. Question of surrendering or of destroying your enemies once and for all . As I said before I need I see no solution but dissolution of the union.
Mary G
@Omnes Omnibus: I’m with Omnes. Stop giving up. They want you to give up. Don’t give them what they want. America was founded on aggrievement with the excesses of a king. We can do it again if we have to.
In a sign of our dysfunctional government that can’t do anything right, the pu$$yhat Mnem mailed me yesterday so I would get it by Friday came today. I am wearing it now.
PIGL
@Aussie Sheila: you’re absolutely right in one sense I think sheila, as a Canadian.
I think parliamentary democracy share a common weakness with US system however me. That weakness is the continual shifting between increasingly incompatible political parties decided on handful of votes.how can a political organism to survive when a decision as fundamental as “unfettered capitalist oligarchy”Versus “some form of liberal democracy “can be decided by a handful of votes in a compromise election?
Mike in DC
From what I’ve read, while treason isn’t technically applicable, the Logan Active, the Espionage act, and the Foreign Agent Registration Acts could all be used to prosecute the conspirators.
MomSense
@Omnes Omnibus:
I’m furious and will not cave.
@Adam L Silverman:
I have no doubt we have the goods on a number of them but my concern is that Republicans will obstruct and deny the information. The only way I can see them turning on the tangerine turd is if his poll numbers drop so low that he becomes a liability.
He’s rapidly approaching that point already.
Could point and mock actually be the best way for us to help? If so, this could be our moment juicers.
Mothra
@Adam L Silverman: Can’t believe Manafort made such a broad denial.
Mothra
@PIGL: yeah that
Soprano2
There seems to be a total blackout on this news on NPR. I haven’t heard any reporting on it at all. They had time to talk to John Poderhez this morning, though.
geg6
@Aussie Sheila:
You have no fucking idea what you are talking about. You don’t understand our Constitution or any of our founding documentation. Stick to criticizing your own form of government.
debbie
@Omnes Omnibus:
And also, never shut up.
PIGL
@geg6: who pee’d in your cornflakes?
I don’t our Shiela is saying anything that many here have not already said.
The American system of government enables the election of Donald Trump, and an apparently permanent grip on power by the GOP. What more is there to understand ? The Prosecution rests.
trnc
@CaseyL:
I don’t disagree with anything you’re saying here, but it is in hindsight. Almost everyone was certain Hillary would win, and having a bunch of Russian interference news stories that were blared out as “unsubstantiated” at the same time news orgs were pushing BS stories about the Clinton Foundation WITHOUT the “unsubstantiated” qualifier could easily have blown back. Ironically, wingnuts and their enablers in the media would have been screaming that the Obama administration was interfering in the election.
Nothing changes under the current rules of political journalism.
hedgehog mobile
@Omnes Omnibus: Thank you.
debit
I have zero expectations about there being any sort of punishment or justice. Remember how the Plame case was going to result in Karl Rove being frog marched into jail? Or how the illegal wire tapping to get around FISA was going to result in a whole slew of the Bush administration being frog marched into jail? Or how John Yoo would be shunned and decried as a traitor for making torture “legal”? I could keep going, but frankly, it’s depressing me even more.
Years ago on one of those daily NPR interview/call in shows, they talked about our basic civil rights, and asked people which one they would be willing to give up. It was an interesting discussion because the conclusion was that giving up any would lead to eventually losing all of them. Little by little we’re losing.
I’ll keep fighting. I’ll stay engaged. I just don’t expect anything to change.
evodevo
@Mary G: Annnnd … You’re welcome! From the Postal Service (?? or was it FexExed? in which case, forget it) for which I have worked for 20 years. We are currently struggling under an increasing burden of budget cuts, plant closures, layoffs, etc. ALL due to the ratfu%^ing we got in ’06 from the Repubs on the way out the door PLUS the biggest recession since the 1930’s. We bumble along as best we can with what we have left. And I am looking forward to the ongoing of same, given that we have the GEGS in charge of the budget. Technically we are self-supporting based on postal product revenue, but after ’06 that became extremely problematic, and I expect any day to hear the old conservative meme “but their service is terrible, why not privatize them!” reverberate through the halls of congress.
Adam L Silverman
@Aussie Sheila: I wouldn’t want you to swap your system for ours. As I brought up at a meeting full of State Department and Interagency folks when deployed to Iraq: when we help a country rebuild or emerge from tyranny we don’t have them recreate our system, we help them build parliaments. There’s a reason for this.
As for heads of state in the 18th Century, yes, fine. But, other than Iceland’s Althang, there was never a modern, Constitutional Republic with separation of powers and enumerated rights. That’s the difference. The President is not a king. The first President specifically rejected that model.
Adam L Silverman
@MisterForkbeard: There are two types of legitimacy: de facto and de jure. His election has de jure legitimacy – as of now. The CI investigation could change that. He does not appear to have much de facto legitimacy.
zhena gogolia
@Adam L Silverman:
Thank you, Adam, for being the person who calms me down the most. (other than my husband, who is not Gogol, btw)
The Lodger
@zhena gogolia: Your husband isn’t Gogol?
I can believe in nothing now.
ChrisB
From now on I’m referring to Trump as Benedict Donald.
Has a nice ring to it.
Elie
Question for Adam: Even if Trump shuts down the investigation here, can’t other countries (that truly have an interest for their own security against Russia), continue to find and leak critical information? There is more at stake here than just the US’s fate, no?
Three Dots
@Bobby D: No.