Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

rich, arrogant assholes who equate luck with genius

Let’s not be the monsters we hate.

White supremacy is terrorism.

Do not shrug your shoulders and accept the normalization of untruths.

Too often we confuse noise with substance. too often we confuse setbacks with defeat.

Seems like a complicated subject, have you tried yelling at it?

I’m pretty sure there’s only one Jack Smith.

This fight is for everything.

Conservatism: there are some people the law protects but does not bind and others who the law binds but does not protect.

It may be funny to you motherfucker, but it’s not funny to me.

Anyone who bans teaching American history has no right to shape America’s future.

A last alliance of elves and men. also pet photos.

Historically it was a little unusual for the president to be an incoherent babbling moron.

You don’t get to peddle hatred on saturday and offer condolences on sunday.

I’ve spoken to my cat about this, but it doesn’t seem to do any good.

Wow, I can’t imagine what it was like to comment in morse code.

Optimism opens the door to great things.

Fuck the extremist election deniers. What’s money for if not for keeping them out of office?

Battle won, war still ongoing.

This year has been the longest three days of putin’s life.

We’ve had enough carrots to last a lifetime. break out the sticks.

Happy indictment week to all who celebrate!

Sadly, there is no cure for stupid.

Some judge needs to shut this circus down soon.

You are here: Home / Politics / Trumpery / Hail to the Hairpiece / Open Thread: Spy Guys, He’s Got ‘Em!

Open Thread: Spy Guys, He’s Got ‘Em!

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… An official with knowledge of the make-up of the crowd says that there were about 40 people who’d been invited by the Trump, Mike Pence and Rep. Mike Pompeo teams. The Trump team originally expected Rep. Pompeo, R-Kansas, to be sworn in during the event as the next CIA director, but the vote to confirm him was delayed on Friday by Senate Democrats. Also sitting in the first several rows in front of the president was the CIA’s senior leadership, which was not cheering the remarks.

White House press secretary Sean Spicer on Monday denied that there were “Trump or White House folks” in the first rows.

“There were no Trump or White House folks sitting down. They were all CIA (unintelligible). So, not in rows one-through-anything, from what I’m told.” Spicer said at the White House briefing Monday. He did not address whether Pompeo invitees were in the first rows.

A source who is familiar with the planning of the president’s CIA visit saw Spicer’s briefing, however, and firmly denied Spicer’s response was accurate…

The CIA was Mr. Trump’s first official agency visit for a reason, it was to signal a new beginning. At the outset of the speech, the president expressed his support for the CIA, “There is nobody that feels stronger about the intelligence community and the CIA than Donald Trump.”

But it is what he said later in front of the CIA’s revered Memorial Wall (a monument to CIA officers killed in the line of duty) — complaints about the media’s coverage of his relationship with the intelligence community and its assessments of the crowd size at his inauguration — that may be harder to erase from the minds of the intelligence community.

Gonna be a very useful meme: NOT. NORMAL.

(And I cannot tell you how weird it feels, as a lifelong leftist, to be siding with the CIA, speaking of ‘not normal’.)

From a medival proverb, a culture that knew much about both aspiring dictators and vengeance: God punishes all knaves and fools — but the fools first.

The President-Asterisk had a lot of us convinced he was a knave, but now he’s acting the fool.

Reader Interactions

213Comments

  2. 2.

    debbie

    Someone needs to grow a pair and sit this lunatic down and demand he stop running this country like a stupid television show. He’s going to take everyone down with him.

  7. 7.

    Damien

    I never thought in a million years I’d feel sorry for the secretive and deadly agents of the CIA, but then two things happened:
    Trump is their new leader.
    I found out they only have a Starbucks in Langley.

  9. 9.

    Lizzy L

    @debbie: First, it wouldn’t help. He can’t hear it. Second, all of the people surrounding him (Pence, Bannon, Kushner, Pompeo, Spicer, Conway — Mattis is the possible exception) are happy to ride that train as long as they can. They are using him, he is using them, everyone’s happy — until the music stops.

    That’s our job.

  10. 10.

    tpherald

    @debbie: Trump has never had to answer to anybody before in his life why would he start now?

    He is the quintessential embodiment of white privilege and failing upwards.

  11. 11.

    trollhattan

    Coincidence that Barnum & Bailey folded just prior to the inauguration? I think not.

    There’s a60 million suckers born every generation.

  16. 16.

    Davis X. Machina

    Have you ever seen leaking this fast, this comprehensive?
    Including leaks against interest about the manchild clearly from inside the WH?
    It’s like Deep Throat but you have to take a number, like in the deli.
    Maybe for a few weeks in July and August of 1974.
    Otherwise, never.

  17. 17.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    So if Wikileaks is talking about his tax returns, that gives the CIA cover if they have some means of hacking into the IRS…

  20. 20.

    dmsilev

    I can only assume that when Memorial Day rolls around, he’s going to show up at Arlington and tout his new line of Trump Wreaths, with all the best laurel and gold-leaf as well.

  23. 23.

    Timurid

    Three days in and he is completely off the chain.
    I’ll say it again: Trump is not acting like somebody who thinks he’ll ever have to win another vote.

    This is moving at warp speed. Within a year we’ll have the foundations of a one party white nationalist state in place, or we’ll have disgraced ex-President Trump. There’s really no middle ground at this point.

  25. 25.

    Yoda Dog

    @Adam L Silverman: So can Pompeo just shut down any investigations into the russia connection now if he so chooses? Is there anything stopping him from firing CIA agents who aren’t deemed loyal enough to POTUS?

    Are there any restrictions there, and if not then do you believe the above is what will happen?

    My apologies in advance if these are stupid questions or you have already addressed this and I missed it..

  31. 31.

    Lizzy L

    @tpherald: I do not believe that Assange has the tax returns. The IRS will not leak them, you can put that out of your minds. We may never see them.

  34. 34.

    Mnemosyne

    California peeps, Sen. Dianne Feinstein has a request for you:

    RISEUP ACTION ALERT!!!

    HEY PEOPLE WHO MARCHED IN CALIFORNIA OR D.C.! Important action for you today! Sen. Dianne Feinstein wants to hear from YOU. For real—this is not a random cut n paste FB meme, but a direct request that I just got, via email, from her Chief of Staff.

    Basically: FEINSTEIN WANTS 2-4 SENTENCES FROM MARCHERS EXPLAINING WHY YOU MARCHED AND WHAT IT MEANT. She will be incorporating messages AND most likely the sheer NUMBER of emails she gets, in her opening statement TOMORROW at the Sessions hearing for the Senate Judiciary Committee. Send emails to:

    [email protected] [email protected]

    Recommended subject line: WHY I MARCHED

    Here is the full text of the email from Sean Elsbernd, Chief of Staff:

    “Over the last few weeks, I have spoken to some of you individually and within a group setting discussing how you can be helpful to Senator Feinstein in her efforts to “resist” the Trump agenda. During this morning’s staff meeting, we discussed her opening statement for tomorrow’s hearing at the Judiciary Committee, during which the Committee is likely to vote up or down on Senator Jeff Session’s nomination to be Attorney General. From that discussion, I have your first assignment!

    Senator Feinstein’s initial draft opening statement is largely motivated by her observations from this weekend’s marches across the country. In particular, she is focusing on the theme of equal rights that permeated every march. She has asked us to reach out to friends and contacts we know who participated in a march (D.C. or in California), and ask them to report back to us with a two to four sentence anecdote that best explains why you marched, how you felt while you marched, and what inspiration you may have developed as a result of participating in the march.

    She would like to review these and, potentially, incorporate a few into her statement. Now, since the hearing is tomorrow morning, D.C. time, that means I need these back ASAP. If you have a network of friends who were with you, please feel free to disseminate this e-mail as broadly as necessary. We will take as many anecdotes as we can – no guarantees they will make the final draft, but, rest assured, she will read them all.

    I’d ask you to email them to me, and to my colleague in the San Francisco office copied on this email [Edited to add emails: Caitlin Meyer at [email protected] AND [email protected].]”

    SHARE THIS WIDELY + KEEP THE HISTORIC MOMENTUM GOING!

  35. 35.

    seaboogie

    @Adam L Silverman:

    None of this will end well.

    Off the charts narcissist with imposter syndrome who is beholden to a foreign dictator with intel on him that will shame him in his most vulnerable places…..and the media that he once exploited and is now baiting is exposing his secrets and lies….

    Yeah – not going to end well. Fascinating to witness, though.

  36. 36.

    Jeffro

    Besides the IC prepping to take him down, Trump has this kind of thing going on in the background: they’re already leaking like crazy, right there in the WH

    This account of Trump’s tumultuous first days in office comes from interviews with nearly a dozen senior White House officials and other Trump advisers and confidants, some of whom spoke on the condition of anonymity to describe private conversations and moments.

    By most standards, Spicer’s statement Saturday did not go well. He appeared tired and nervous in an ill-fitting gray pinstripe suit. He publicly gave faulty facts and figures — which he said were provided to him by the Presidential Inaugural Committee — that prompted a new round of media scrutiny.

    Many critics thought Spicer went too far and compromised his integrity. But in Trump’s mind, Spicer’s attack on the news media was not forceful enough. The president was also bothered that the spokesman read, at times haltingly, from a printed statement.

    Trump has been resentful, even furious, at what he views as the media’s failure to reflect the magnitude of his achievements, and he feels demoralized that the public’s perception of his presidency so far does not necessarily align with his own sense of accomplishment.

    So…kind of like Obama in his first week, right?

    We might save the country some time and just ask PBO to come back on a ‘temp’ contract, you know, until shit can get sorted out?

  38. 38.

    Mnemosyne

    @Jeffro:

    A narcissist who feels that his/her greatness is unappreciated is a goddamned ticking time bomb.

    Thanks again, Republican morons! And the people who voted third party or couldn’t be arsed to vote for president can all DIAF, too. You had your chance to stand up to fascism, and you blew it. Bigly.

  39. 39.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Yoda Dog: No he can’t. CI investigations are ultimately under control of the Director of National Intelligence in conjunction with the Director of the FBI. The leaks have been partially preemptive. They’ve put all the principles on notice that shutting this down will make things worse. Do I see the President and his immediate circle wanting them shut down? Yes, the anonymous leak to WaPo to try to undercut the NY Times, WSJ, and CNN reports on LTG Flynn was part of that. But shutting this thing down, especially because they don’t really know all of whom they are looking at or what information they’re looking at is itself dangerous. If the evidence to clear LTG Flynn or anyone else who’s name has leaked or might leak or is suspected is involved is already gathered, whether its been reviewed or not, closing the CI investigation down will keep the cloud of suspicion in place. Moreover, it will simply signal to the CI guys that there really si fire, which will itself lead to further investigations or leaks. And this does nothing about the Senate investigation that is starting up.

  44. 44.

    Jeffro

    @tpherald:

    Don’t fall for that Assange tax return ploy. I’d imagine shortly we’ll see some tax returns pop up on Wikileaks, probably fakes that make Trump look like a saint

    Saint, world’s worst person ever, and a few in between. It’s their way. Put 20 different versions out there and let the partisans argue themselves to death while Trumpov laughs.

    I’m shocked they didn’t do it already, but then again not a single institution or stakeholder group has ever drawn the line with Trump on this.

    Once the dust settles, I wouldn’t be surprised to see both parties agree that their national candidates (president and MoCs) have to submit/publish/release 5 years’ worth of tax returns in order to run.

  45. 45.

    Mnemosyne

    @Adam L Silverman:

    If the evidence to clear LTG Flynn or anyone else who’s name has leaked or might leak or is suspected is involved is already gathered, whether its been reviewed or not, closing the CI investigation down will keep the cloud of suspicion in place.

    This seems to assume that LTG Flynn is, in fact, innocent. If he’s not innocent, then he has even more incentive to shut the investigation down ASAP.

  46. 46.

    Patricia Kayden

    @amk: And when does he start an unnecessary war so he can grab some booty from a foreign country to divvy up among his billionaire friends? He’s already said that we should have taken Iraq’s oil.

  47. 47.

    Alternative Fax, a hip hop artist from Idaho

    What’s the over on when things get really ugly in terms of IC hostilities? Asking for a friend, who may want the under.

  49. 49.

    O. Felix Culpa

    The T***p presidency is potentially unraveling a lot faster than I expected. I’m ok with that. While I would wish most Presidents – including Republicans – success, this President defines success only in terms of benefit to himself. In the meantime he endangers us and the whole world. Vaulting ambition o’erleaps itself and mayhaps falls hard.

  52. 52.

    Raoul

    Holy crap this WaPo piece! I may have a schadenfreude O.D.

    Trump has been resentful, even furious, at what he views as the media’s failure to reflect the magnitude of his achievements, and he feels demoralized that the public’s perception of his presidency so far does not necessarily align with his own sense of accomplishment.

    The whole thing is stunning. He’s so f*king brittle. Just a raging baby with insane old man hair.

    And bravo for this

    Spicer’s resulting statement — delivered in an extended shout and brimming with falsehoods

  53. 53.

    tobie

    @Mnemosyne: Can/should non-Californians respond? I’m happy to write something but I imagine the good senator is looking to quote her constituents first.

  54. 54.

    Mnemosyne

    @Lizzy L:

    It was from the local activist group here in LA that I’m getting involved with, Rise Up LA. I’ve gone to one of their meetings and they are the real deal.

    I think it was meant for Facebook but a lot of people here aren’t on Facebook.

  55. 55.

    Jeffro

    @Adam L Silverman:

    The leaks have been partially preemptive. They’ve put all the principles on notice that shutting this down will make things worse.

    For a couple reasons, right? Shutting it down just doubles everyones’ interest in just what’s being hidden (without eliminating the leaks). And it quadruples the investigators’ incentive to get the info out there quickly, lest there be an attempt to smear them.

    A smart advisor to Trump would be working hard on their own pre-emptive plans themselves…talking about what a visionary Trump and his team are, that they reached out to America’s former enemy about how to solve the great problems of our time (ISIS, containing China, pacifying the Middle East, etc) and it’s time we all woke up, etc etc. But unfortunately there are only two smart advisors to Trump…and so many others in his camp are compromised…

    …pass the popcorn!

  56. 56.

    Debbie1

    Well, that does it. I’m convinced. If Sean Spicer says there was no Trump cheering section in the first few rows, the story has GOT to be true. If that guy told me tomorrow was Tuesday, I’d check wikth the Farmer’s Almanac.

  57. 57.

    Jeffro

    @Raoul: #37 above? Yes, it’s amazing. “The leaks…they’re COMING FROM INSIDE THE WHITE HOUSE!!!”

    And the CIA, and…and…and…=)

  58. 58.

    Anne Laurie

    @Mary G:

    I am so sick of him popping up that tiny little thumb’s up all the time.

    You wanna guess how many years it took his mama and the military reform school to retrain him from just waggling his tiny dick in public?

  60. 60.

    Another Scott

    @Mary G: I think the tiny raised fist is worse, myself. He did it on that “Christmas card” for Pete’s sake.

    You know he’s going to do it at some state funeral if he gets the chance.

    He’s brain damaged, IMO.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  61. 61.

    chris

    @Major Major Major Major: So some Dems think it’s in their interest to vote with Republicans? Did they miss the march on the weekend? Do they think the donald will be nicer to them? They’re gonna get beat from all sides.

  63. 63.

    dmsilev

    Lead headline on the NYT right now: “Trump Repeats an Election Lie in Meeting With Top Lawmakers”. If you click through to the story, the headline is slightly different but still includes “Lie”.

  72. 72.

    Adam L Silverman

    @efgoldman: I’m not sure. I think the briefing they received scared the crap out of them. Senators don’t move that quickly unless they’re freaked. Hell they can’t take a latrine break without having a 60 vote threshold vote followed by a 51 vote threshold vote to adjourn for fifteen or twenty minutes. If the Senate chambers ever catch on fire, and they can’t get 60 votes, they’re going to all burn to death.

  74. 74.

    MomSense

    @tpherald:

    That’s my suspicion as well. Unless he’s so mentally unstable that Vkad is having second thoughts.

    Again this is like LeCarre wrote this on meth.

  76. 76.

    The Lodger

    @Another Scott: I expect him to bring his cheering section to the first funeral he has to attend. I never thought I’d say this, but thank God GHWB and Barbara are both in better health than last week.

  78. 78.

    Another Scott

    @Yoda Dog: Adam addressed the shutting things down.

    On the firing, Civil Service rules still apply (for a while) and AFAIK the CIA is under the Civil Service system. And there’s a bill in Congress to restore the Holman Rule which would let Congress cut the salary for any position held by someone they don’t like to $1/yr.

    But at the moment, Civil Service employees still have rights and can’t be fired without following the rules.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  79. 79.

    Debbie1

    @amk: A thought just occurred to me, maybe their yelling “dictator, usurper, and illegitimate” was a request – not an accusation. As in, we want a dictator, usurper…

  80. 80.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Jeffro: To answer your question yes. And if this is as bad as has been teased, there will be no way to spin this. They’ll try, but this is not an investigation into receiving funding from a foreign source for your campaign. This is a spy and mole hunt. It goes to the heart of US national security and our ability to protect ourselves and our allies and partners. The people that do this work do not mess around.

  82. 82.

    trnc

    Remember, he loves to use other peoples’ money to minimize his own investment risk. While everyone is paying attention to the nutty ass things he does several times a day, he’ll be helping himself to the biggest pot of other peoples’ money in the world – the US Treasury.

  84. 84.

    Lizzy L

    @Mnemosyne: Got it, okay. Thanks. I’d feel better if there was something about it on Feinstein’s website. There’s a lot of fake stuff out there, and I don’t know this group, though I understand that you do.

  89. 89.

    Jean

    @Adam L Silverman: No, I can’t see how it will. Josh Marshall is also reporting (with quotations from various news sources) about the leaking from the White House by advisors or others close to Trump who are talking about his mercurial emotions. Marshall says “It is a bracing picture, chilling and hilarious. But don’t lose the point: no White House leaks like this, leaks this much or leaks this casually about the President’s emotional weakness.” Makes me wonder how loyal his advisors are, especially as the IC continues its investigations, assuming they are continuing.

  90. 90.

    trnc

    @Raoul: Good. Most news outlets appeared to be doing a pretty good job of accurately describing all of Saturday’s events. Unfortunately, today Chris Matthews and somebody else said they thought Dishonesty Spice’s performance today was great.

  91. 91.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Another Scott: Sorry, long day. Didn’t meant to leave that out. Thanks for catching it. The Intel Community folks are a mixture of regular Title 5 and Title 10 Excepted Service – Intelligence (the other two Title 10 Excepted Service are for uniformed military and the faculty at the Professional Military Education schools). Civil Service rules and protections apply to both groups, though the latter have a different/somewhat abbreviated set of protections compared to the former.

  95. 95.

    Anne Laurie

    @efgoldman:

    Wasn’t [the Holman Rule] found unconstitutional in the 19th century?

    “Not just alternative facts, but outdated as well!” — KellyAnne Conway, probably.

  98. 98.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Jean: the Washington Post story suggests Reince and Kushner are starting to resent KAC. I would say the Kenosha Kid would be the first to go if things really get nasty, and Conway wouldn’t last long against Ivanka and Jared, I’d imagine.

  101. 101.

    Jeffro

    @MomSense:

    Unless [Trump]’s so mentally unstable that Vkad is having second thoughts.

    Hey, we already know that Putin had concerns about Trump’s stability.

    Trump’s behavior, however, has at times concerned the Russians, leading them to revise their hacking and disinformation strategy. For example, when Trump launched into an inexplicable attack on the parents of a Muslim-American soldier who died in combat, the Kremlin assumed the Republican nominee was showing himself psychologically unfit to be president and would be forced by his party to withdraw from the race. As a result, Moscow put its hacking campaign temporarily on hold, ending the distribution of documents until Trump stabilized, both personally and in the polls, according to reports provided to Western intelligenceTrump’s behavior, however, has at times concerned the Russians, leading them to revise their hacking and disinformation strategy. For example, when Trump launched into an inexplicable attack on the parents of a Muslim-American soldier who died in combat, the Kremlin assumed the Republican nominee was showing himself psychologically unfit to be president and would be forced by his party to withdraw from the race. As a result, Moscow put its hacking campaign temporarily on hold, ending the distribution of documents until Trump stabilized, both personally and in the polls, according to reports provided to Western intelligence

    .but now that Trump’s in, it shifts to “how long can I play this out…how many ways can I get the Americans to fight amongst themselves, doubt their institutions, and otherwise quit costing me so damn much money?”

  104. 104.

    GregB

    I see the stock market went down today.

    I wonder if half those geniuses are starting to realize how good things were under the steady hand of President Obama.

    Meanwhile in NH some fascist has been leaving graffiti calling multiculturalism white genocide.

  105. 105.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Jean: I read Marshall’s take. He’s very good on this stuff. And I agree. There’s no real loyalty here. They all know he has no loyalty to them, they’ve watched him knuckle others under, jettison them, turn on them, etc. And they’ve all watched him play all of his people off against each other. Every one of them is going to be looking out for themselves, not him. With the exception of his Son in Law.

    And while I can’t prove it, that’s part of the reason for the leaks. To increase the pressure on the President who is famously paranoid about who he can and cannot trust. The more that drips the more he will worry that one or more of these folks will try to cut a deal to save themselves.

  108. 108.

    Another Scott

    @efgoldman: Wikipedia has a history. I think it was in place several times in the 20th Century, IIRC.

    If Congress has the votes, they can do what they want when it comes to spending money. It’s draconian as hell, but that’s the way it is.

    Another example is the federal law forbidding ACORN getting any US funding. It seemed to me (and to Nadler, IIRC) to be a Bill of Attainder, but the 2nd District Court of Appeals disagreed.

    It’s yet another example of why we can’t ever assume that our gains are permanent. They never are, and can be reversed much faster than the time it took to achieve them. Also too, it’s yet another example of why the Presidency matters since the POTUS shapes the SCOTUS (and the lower courts).

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  109. 109.

    randy khan

    For those keeping track of ways that Trump is attempting emulate or obliterate Obama, he’s using the same desk in the Oval Office.

    In fairness, the same desk has been used by most Presidents in the last 40 years, but still it’s one more amusing item on the list.

  110. 110.

    trnc

    @Adam L Silverman: Part of the message I left this morning for Senator Burr (my sen, and also chair of the Senate Intel Committee, for those who don’t know) urged him to protect members of the Intel community particularly because of the dangerous jobs they have to do in high risk locations. I also stated that the Prez’s CIA speech did not give me any confidence that he understands any of that.

  112. 112.

    amk

    so, when are those rushyan mobs gonna call in all the donnie dick’s iou’s? our only hope at this point.

  113. 113.

    PhoenixRising

    @Jean: hahahahhaha you’ve killed me

    Makes me wonder how loyal his advisors are

    Short story about serving on a nonprofit board with a narcissist: By the time all funding sources/grantor orgs [for the actually quite important mission of the nonprofit] had cycled through the series of meetings booked by the narcissist, who confused ‘founding the organization’ with ‘being chief emperor of [minority community]’…we were out of money to pay staff.

    At the next meeting, the board members recruited BY the narcissist (including me) were asked to write checks to cover expenses, and we laughed and laughed and laughed…and then we each signed off on a letter of resignation before we left the building. Also letters of recommendation for the staff, who didn’t deserve this just because they took a job at an organization headed by a narcissist.

    That is how I imagine the collegial atmosphere in the west wing is feeling RN: Who’s going to get off this sinking ship before the dumpster fire takes out the fuel tanks?

  115. 115.

    Another Scott

    @Jeffro: I remember that… You could see that she tried to catch herself, but the (pretty clear to these eyes) intent was there from the start.

    But as horrible as all of these symbols are, what really matters is the policies they try to ram through. We must make them own their horrible policy actions and not give them any cover.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  116. 116.

    Mnemosyne

    @Anya:

    I’m willing to side with the CIA when they are factually correct. They were factually correct about Iraq, which was why the Bush administration tried to bypass them and shut them up.

    I’m pretty darn sure they’re factually correct this time, too. An excess of cynicism can be just as damaging as an excess of trust.

  117. 117.

    Jeffro

    @Adam L Silverman:

    And if this is as bad as has been teased, there will be no way to spin this.

    Agree, there is no spin to be had, only a desperate attempt to put forth a competing, completely different narrative (and those are different things as you know).

    They’ll try, but this is not an investigation into receiving funding from a foreign source for your campaign. This is a spy and mole hunt. It goes to the heart of US national security and our ability to protect ourselves and our allies and partners.

    Yes, and in the end, that is what will tip some (enough?) of their own folks against them…to say nothing of American voters. Just one crack in the dam, just one guilty party (and there are so many to choose from), and we’re off to “What did Trumpov know, and when did he know it?” He’s been so incredibly unsubtle about his pro-Russia stances that it will be an easy sell, and his protestations will probably only resonate with about 27% of the public.

    The people that do this work do not mess around.

    For which we are eternally grateful, now more than ever.

  118. 118.

    RareSanity

    @Adam L Silverman:

    I’m not sure. I think the briefing they received scared the crap out of them. Senators don’t move that quickly unless they’re freaked.

    Well, we know the Dems came out of the briefing horrified. My problem is why weren’t any GOP MoC expressing…even as little as concern?

    Seems to me that this is where the GOP in Congress need to decide whether they are going to help, or let Trump take them down with him. I’d be really happy if Paul Ryan chooses “unwisely”.

  119. 119.

    Anya

    @Adam L Silverman: I sent it to my grandpa. He loved it. He was part of the 1960s young Africans trying to win independence. He’s been an ambassador and consultant for a certain golf Arab state. He told me he still can’t figure out how America got here.

  120. 120.

    GregB

    I still say Chris Christie will come riding in on a very large white horse and bury a metaphorical lance into several doughy underbellies.

  122. 122.

    trnc

    @efgoldman: Does that mean that a CNN broadcast called Spicer out for lying about DT padding his audience for the CIA speech? Because the 3 online CNN stories about the press conference don’t mention that.

  123. 123.

    Another Scott

    @randy khan: I wouldn’t be surprised if he changes the desk. It takes time for them to change the carpet and the furniture.

    Based on the way he’s going to trash the economy and millions of lives, he probably should choose the Hoover desk, but it’s not gaudy enough for him.

    I wouldn’t be surprised if he tries to get a new desk “worthy” of his greatness, rather than using one of the previous 6 presidential desks available.

    We’ll see.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  129. 129.

    Jean

    @Adam L Silverman: I hope that happens–someone cuts a deal to save himself. Marshall’s snippets from news sources do not include who in particular is commenting on Trump’s instability. But these anecdotes about his weaknesses are at best personally humiliating, and at worst, serious allegations about his fitness to lead. And that it’s coming from the INSIDE after only days into his presidency is frightening. Or should be to everyone.

  130. 130.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Mnemosyne: Please take this in the matter in which it is intended – as in not a personal attack. The men and women of the US Intel Community, including the uniformed members doing what we call Military Intelligence (MI), are professionals. They get a lot of crap in both the news media and popular culture. A lot of that is both unwarranted and factually inaccurate. And they get crapped on for policies that they do not set and have no control over, such as the expansion of the NSA’s activities by the Bush 43 Administration (and yes, as both a US citizen and someone who’s done a very specific type of intel work that wasn’t called intel – long story, don’t ask…, I had a problem with that expansion). These people work, largely in anonymity – even the folks working in H/R – doing a job that gets no publicity unless they make a mistake. What they do, both ops (including clandestine covert paramilitary operations and Human Intelligence/HUMINT where the officer cultivates and handles foreign sources) and analysis, is really the work of artists and artisans and they are in a constant war with bureaucrats, including the elected ones on the Hill. They are not perfect. They make mistakes. And that’s not even counting the foreign nationals that have put their and their family’s lives at extreme risk because they believe it is in their own country’s and the world’s best interest to serve as intelligence sources for us. I’m not suggesting we don’t or shouldn’t have robust oversight. But I am suggesting that having a little faith in them might be warranted.

  134. 134.

    Lizzy L

    The scariest thing I saw today was a Reuters article which seemed to say that Trump intends to play a game of chicken with China over access to the South Chiba Sea islands which China claims. Talk about not ending well…

  135. 135.

    trnc

    @efgoldman: That’s what I was talking about in my original post. All of the news outlets were on fire Saturday, and actually appeared to practicing journalism without any false equivalence nonsense or any attempt to normalize DT or Spicer (except resident CNN douchebag Jeffrey Lord). But today, it was normalization as usual. CBS obviously stepped up, but I’m not sure if any other major outlets did.

  137. 137.

    bupalos

    I don’t think Pompeo “advised” anything. I honestly don’t think anyone does. Trump is sui generis, or at least someone who desperately needs to be sui generis and so might as well be. And Pompeo strikes me as a nearly complete idiot anyway. There’s a subtle good-cop, bad-cop that’s going on here that’s moving the Overton window.

  138. 138.

    dm

    @Jeffro:

    Once the dust settles, I wouldn’t be surprised to see both parties agree that their national candidates (president and MoCs) have to submit/publish/release 5 years’ worth of tax returns in order to run.

    Massachusetts already has a bill before the legislature that requires tax returns in order to get on the ballot next time.

  141. 141.

    danielx

    @Adam L Silverman:

    No, it won’t – though how it will end? Tom Clancy couldn’t come up with a plot this fantastic if he was still alive – stay, though, he’d probably feature Trump as the straight talking outsider president who takes his case directly to the American people. And so forth.

    Seriously, though, it is not going to end well. To the best of my knowledge, repeated deliberate disrespect of the CIA would be considered neither career- nor longevity-enhancing in DC, although most high ranking apparatchiks will never see anything more bloody than a rare steak.

    It sounds strange to consider the CIA as “more liberal” than other state security organs, but that’s definitely the case with regard to the FBI at least. Particularly since James Comey has established himself as being utterly untrustworthy and hence beholden to Trump for his position, the FBI will do whatever Trump tells it to do. Even more particularly, there isn’t a whole lot that is out-and-out illegal under the Patriot Act, especially for an ambitious Assistant US Attorney – terrorism, or sympathizing with terrorists, are both pretty much whatever the Justice Department says they are. Trump: my policy is to wipe out terrorists. If you don’t agree with everything I say, you’re against my policies. Therefore you support terrorism; off to Gitmo for you!

    But – sooner or later – something will happen that causes a constitutional crisis. Probably sooner, because Trump now has more power in his hands that any other single person in the world and he likes wielding power against his enemies. That latter group includes, among many others, not only those (like me) who consider him disgusting, corrupt and incompetent for the office he now holds, but anybody who doesn’t support him 100%.

    One scenario is that somebody is going to tell Donald Trump no, publicly and in unmistakable terms, because they consider what he wants done to be illegal. Something like putting every visitor to a particular blog or website(s) under serious surveillance and/or having such visitors arrested on Trumped-up charges (hold the groans, please). Blogs where people say (lots of) unpleasant things about him – like this one, for example. Sounds fantastic, but we are living in fantastic times and I’ve not learned anything about him that says he would be incapable of such acts. On the contrary, everything I have learned about him indicates that he is not only capable of but would revel in having people who say he is an Olympic grade douche canoe…locked up. That will not end well, certainly, because nobody but a bankruptcy court has ever said no to Donald Trump about anything and made it stick.

    Alternatively, someone will inform him of something he doesn’t want to hear, or ignores, or blows off, or just forgets about ten minutes after the meeting…and in consequence, people die, maybe a whole hell of a lot of them. We’ve seen this movie before: “Bin Laden determined to strike US”…”okay, you’ve covered your ass”. Or he decides to do some Trump-style dick waving and send a carrier battle group within a hundred miles of a PLA naval base in defiance of a Chinese warning that doing so will be considered an act of war. (The usual diplomatic letter indicating “grave concern”, which as I understand it is the phraseology used when a country is ready, willing and able, if not eager, to do something very unpleasant to a perceived enemy.) The Chinese fire, say, fifty antiship ballistic missiles (saturate the defenses, right?) and the carrier battle group gets wiped out at the cost of 20,000 or so American sailors and Marines. Fun, no? There are reasons for the diplomatic niceties with which Trump appears to be so impatient, niceties worked out over a long period of time and designed to allow countries to step back from the brink without losing (much) face. He is completely ignorant of the reasons for them and contemptuous in the bargain.

    But something very bad is going to happen – and to close the circle, probably sooner than later, given Trump’s tendency to strike out at perceived enemies and his absolute genius at creating perceived enemies. At what point does the Deep State, if not Congress, decide something to the effect of “this motherfucker has got to go before he gets us all killed, not to mention ruining the game for everybody”? And how does it happen? Via impeachment or, um, extra-constitutional means?

  149. 149.

    J R in WV

    @Patricia Kayden:

    He’s already said that we should have taken Iraq’s oil.

    Which just shows how pig-ignorant he is. How would you propose we do that, Mr President? Build a pipeline to Norfolk? Build bigger oil tankers than will fit in the Med? I mean, it’s absurd on the face of it once you try to build any details.

    For one thing, the oil fields were tattered, pipelines broken, facilities booby-trapped, etc. Transport in giant convoys of trucks that can be attacked by IEDs? Wait! I know, giant cargo submarines! But how to get the oil out of the ground -> into the subs–

    Does it look less stupid yet? nope. The man is an ass.

  150. 150.

    Jeffro

    @dm: CA has the same kind of thing pending, I believe. It won’t matter as those are both solidly blue states. Dems can go first and do it to show up the GOP (for their lack of vetting Trumpov this way), or Rs can go first and do it to address the lack of vetting, to try and make Dems look petty or ‘behind the times’ or vindictive, whatever.

    (Granted, Rs are only going to go first if Trumpov implodes and there’s still a GOP left to slap together a 2020 platform!)

  151. 151.

    sukabi

    @Adam L Silverman: I wouldn’t count the SIL out of the potential leakers…he’s more likely the most tuned into how unstable drumpf is…he’s in the perfect position to push all the right buttons pushing papa over the edge and taking over the family business.

  152. 152.

    Byrookorbycrook

    This is becoming rather Yeats-ian. The centre is not holding and things are rapidly falling apart. I don’t see the path for a ‘return to normalcy’ once Trump is removed. Pence, Yertle, and ZEGS have been supporting the destabilization of the US Gov. The Russian component will be lessened, but the kleptocracy/kakistocracy will continue mostly unabated. How do we work as citizens to staunch the bleeding?

  154. 154.

    Mnemosyne

    @Adam L Silverman:

    I know that the CIA and other intelligence professionals will do their best, but all three branches of the federal government are ranged against them. At this point, even if the IC did bring out absolute proof that Trump personally colluded with Putin, I fully expect the Republicans to refuse to prosecute or even investigate, and I fully expect conservative Republican judges to refuse to hear any court cases.

    When a single corrupt party owns the entire government from top to bottom, plus the press, there’s only so much the IC can do to bring them down.

  158. 158.

    Jeffro

    @sukabi:

    I wouldn’t count the SIL out of the potential leakers…he’s more likely the most tuned into how unstable drumpf is…he’s in the perfect position to push all the right buttons pushing papa over the edge and taking over the family business.

    I think the folks closest to Trumpov are the ones most likely to think they can ‘manage’ him no matter what crazy shit he’s saying or trying to do…they’re also the ones with the most to gain with him in power (also the most to lose if he’s out of power). Therefore, they are the least likely to be the ones to turn him in. Kushner, the Trump kids, Bannon, Flynn, those folks will never turn on him.

    Spicer, Priebus, Conway, a few others, they’re all in this weird other group that knows exactly who/what they’re dealing with, but will stick with him/it until almost the very end. It’ll still be too late for them, but their rat-like instincts will kick in just before the stern slides below the waves.

    And the best way to sort this all out is for folks like Manafort, Page, Stone, and Flynn to be charged with crimes against the US (espionage? treason? I don’t have a dictionary handy.) Once they are in custody, they’ll sing and most of the rest will sing for fear of being left with the short straw.

  161. 161.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Jeffro: Therefore, they are the least likely to be the ones to turn him in. Kushner, the Trump kids,

    Don’t count Tiffany out. She may go down in history as the Savior of the Republic

  163. 163.

    trnc

    @Mnemosyne: I won’t go to the mat for this idea yet, but I believe it is possible that Roberts and Kennedy will not have much patience for an outright whacko executive branch.

  164. 164.

    Yarrow

    @Mnemosyne: The military may be forced to choose between following or refusing to follow unlawful orders from the Commander in Chief. That’ll add a fun new element to the whole thing. I know the military is not supposed to follow unlawful orders. The debate will be over “was the order lawful or not” and the choice will show what side they’re on.

  170. 170.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Yarrow: Yes. Right now the Crisis Action Planners in Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, and Bulgaria are working over time!

  171. 171.

    Yarrow

    @trnc: There’s an open Supreme Court seat. The Senate will confirm anyone he nominates. I expect it to happen quickly. Then the court will be less of an obstacle to him.

  172. 172.

    Mnemosyne

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    There are two long years before 2018. Given how far out the Republicans have already gone in just three goddamned days, I am now doubting that there will be federal elections in 2018.

    And, yes, a lot of this is because the fucking press is standing by and letting the Trumpistas lie to their faces with no pushback. Do you really think at this point that CNN or MSNBC or the NY Times would balk at an announcement of martial law?

  175. 175.

    Mnemosyne

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    His indelible legacy now is that he is the man who killed the Voting Rights Act. Now that his party is in charge of all three branches, he gets to leave precedent behind and write his own legacy.

  177. 177.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Mnemosyne: I’m not suggesting protests. I’m suggesting actually reorganizing the Democratic Party into something actually functional at the state and local levels. I’m suggesting running compelling candidates for every open position at every level of government regardless of their actual electoral chances. I’m suggesting showing up at constituent meetings and events and making sure that the elected official and the media and everyone else knows just how the majority feels. I’m suggesting NY and CA and several other financially well off blue states consider invoking Federalism to keep the tax dollars of their citizens in their states instead of going as welfare for red states. I’m suggesting articulating what ends you wish to achieve, what effects you want to have happen, and then articulate the ways and means to achieve them.

  180. 180.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Mnemosyne: Get a fucking grip and go to work. It is up to us. So do your bit. You did the knitting or crocheting or whatever. Do the next thing. You will make a difference and you will feel better.

  181. 181.

    PJ

    @Adam L Silverman: This is gonna sound snarky, and I only partly mean it to, but is the torture that the CIA engaged in (and tried to cover up), and oversight of out-of-control contractors like Raymond Allen Davis, part of their professional behavior? I fervently wish for all of Trump’s dirty laundry to be exposed, and any threat for his potential behavior as a Russian agent to be eliminated, but from what I know of CIA history, I have a hard time accepting the “professional” characterization.

  184. 184.

    trnc

    @Mnemosyne:

    Protests only do so much when the one-party government doesn’t give a shit about protests

    My cynical side says exactly the same thing, but it depends on whether the protest can spawn more prolonged activism. If the sleeping giant can be kept awake in the form of more phone calls to congress critters, showing up at town halls, etc, those congress peeps will recognize them as voters who actually determine whether said congress person gets another term.

  185. 185.

    Adam L Silverman

    @PJ: Its a problem and a stain on the Agency. I don’t work there, never have. I can’t speak for those that do – even those I happen to know. My understanding is that the vast majority of people there were not happy about it, are glad its over, and do not want to ever do that again.

  186. 186.

    Yarrow

    @Adam L Silverman: Yep. It’s not going to be pretty. They will not go quietly.

    @danielx:

    Tom Clancy couldn’t come up with a plot this fantastic if he was still alive – stay, though, he’d probably feature Trump as the straight talking outsider president who takes his case directly to the American people. And so forth.

    I think the book is more likely to be written by the Chinese equivalent of Tom Clancy. America will be the declining superpower that elects a rogue leader whose team is filled with Russian moles. The erratic leader lashes out at the Chinese so the brave Chinese leader stands up to him. Various events ensue including a series of close calls. A dangerous almost-deployment of nuclear weapons by the erratic American leader is stopped only by a young, dashing Chinese guy working as a double agent in the superpower’s security state. Eventually the “good guys” win as the erratic American leader is overthrown. America is weakened, Russia is pushed back and China has saved the world.

    Or something along those lines.

  187. 187.

    Mnemosyne

    @efgoldman:

    Answer the question. At this point, can you picture any MSM outlet putting up a fight for more than a day over a declaration of martial law? They just let Spicer get up in front of them, recycle the exact same lies he told them on Sunday, and declared him the winner of the news cycle.

    Sorry, but that “satirical” article in Politico was exactly right. We now live in Saudi Arabia in all but name, and there are no institutions left that can stop it.

    ETA: Corrected day of the week.

  188. 188.

    mouse tolliver

    If Trump was a Democrat, I feel like his obviously dysfunctional relationship with Melania would’ve been fodder for Tweety and the rest of the beltway press. Just watch this Zapruder-ized clip of a throwaway moment from the inauguration…

    Melania Trump Definitely Loves Her Husband and Is Very Happy to Be Here

    Melania is standing behind Trump, frowning. Then he turns — backward and to the right — and Melania smiles awkwardly, tightly. It’s a smile that says, “That’s a good thing! That’s a good thing you did, Anthony!” Melania’s sister-wife, Ivanka, is also in the frame, and Ivanka’s reaction to her daddy-hubby is similar to Melania’s. A deliberate, emphatic smile. As soon as President * turns back around, Melania starts frowning again.

    THIS IS NOT NORMAL!!

  189. 189.

    sukabi

    @Jeffro: pretty sure any loyalty drumpf has secured from family has been thru abuse and coercion, and is not true loyalty… It’s probably becoming pretty clear to all close to drumpf that he’s not going to last 4 years … At some point it’s better to cut your losses and grab what you can. Don’t discount SIL sticking in the shiv…he could come out a ‘hero’ of sorts and make a run at the presidency himself in 12 years.

  192. 192.

    Yarrow

    @Mnemosyne: Follow the money. The owners of the press care most about the money. They eyeballs. If people support those who are doing good work, boycott advertisers on programs that aren’t, and the owners see that the money is in standing up to Trump or reporting on his ethics issues or Russian ties, then that’s what they’ll do.

    Downfall of a President will be yuuuuge in ratings. They’ll cover it.

  195. 195.

    Mnemosyne

    @Yarrow:

    I’ve seen the line of succession if Trump resigns or is impeached. It’s assholes all the way down. And if you think the press is supine now, just wait for their cries about how we all have to come together, be patient, and trust President Pence (or, worse, President Ryan) to do what’s best for the country.

  196. 196.

    Mnemosyne

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    The Civil Rights Movement had an army of lawyers and members of Congress behind them, plus the support of a popular president who was eager to sign their legislation. What’s our equivalent?

    ETA: The Civil Rights Movement had Earl Warren to back them up, we have John fucking Roberts.

  197. 197.

    Schmend

    @Adam L Silverman: I don’t wish to imply that your perceptions on these matters needs corroboration — but as someone else who spent a career as a running-dog lackey of the military industrial war-mongering complex (as I used to describe myself, mostly in jest) — I, too, feel that a certain degree of trust in the professionalism and integrity of significant majority of the members of the IC is warranted. I will now re-engage my cloaking device.

  199. 199.

    Yarrow

    @Omnes Omnibus: You know, sometimes you have to go curl up in a ball or do something equivalent to regain balance and figure out how to go forward. Sometimes the best way to resist is to take care of oneself. And sometimes that means crying out in pain and anger for a bit.

    @Mnemosyne: Everyone knows the line of succession. But how it plays out depends how long it takes for things to happen. The senior GOP leadership knew about this stuff and could very well be damaged by the fallout. The longer they wait to remove Trump, which even now is within their ability to do, the worse the blowback on them may be. And at that point who knows what the line of succession will be.

  200. 200.

    Vhh

    @Byrookorbycrook: Let’s concentrate on getting the goods on Trump first, shall we? Watergate was a long slog, and Woodstein thought they had lost it way more than once. It took nearly two years for that 2nd rate burglary to take down Tricky Dick, during which time the country ran on autopilot. Trump is painting himself in a corner and will lash out, he’s dangerous. The good news is that the media have lost their shyness about the words falsehoods and lies, and we once again have 2 decently functional papers racing each other for scoops, the WAPO and the NYT. A relief, since both were neutered during the reign of W. Even CNN is looking up. And most of all, people are at last laughing on the record at Spicer, Conway, and Trump himself. So kerp the slings and arrows flying

  202. 202.

    Bupalos

    @Mnemosyne: I feel like there’s a Cotton wing that’s kind of sitting back and waiting for the hole to open up. That’s probably because I kind of know those guys.

    Your point is taken though on the waves we’ve got coming at us. Its going to be battle on battle. That’s fine though. I’m more about dying on the right side of the line than getting to beulaland, I have no illusions about how long this is going to take.

  205. 205.

    Westyny

    @Mnemosyne: Yeah, but progressively weakened assholes (though I don’t like how that sounds) because their party has to own their descent into crazy. Or will be made to own it.

  206. 206.

    Larkspur

    @frosty: Yes but thank goodness he has big shoulders. Really really big. He told us so the other day. I’m going to sleep better knowing….nah, I’m not going to sleep better; that was a falsehood misstatement alternative no-longer-operative fact. But I am going to sleep now.

  207. 207.

    SFAW

    @Jeffro:

    and there’s still a GOP left to slap together a 2020 platform!

    Can we stop already with the “GOP is in its death throes” shit? They’ll survive Deadbeat Shitgibbon, they’ll survive destroying Medicaid and probably Medicare, they’ll probably survive another Depression, because there are always people stupid and scared enough to vote for “leaders” that blame Jews or whomever else is the “real” source of their own poverty, fears, etc.

  208. 208.

    Chris

    @Anya:

    America, You Look Like an Arab Country Right Now
    Welcome to the club.

    The archetypical Arab country is run by a corrupt and extractive oligarchical establishment, the loudest opposition to which is a fanatical identity-based populist movement spouting Dark Ages rhetoric, which as often as not got its start-up loans from the corrupt establishment in the first place. While there are reformists too who actually care about things like the inalienable rights of the people and their material welfare, they’re nowhere near in as strong a position as would be desirable. In no small part because the strength of ethnic/sectarian politics makes it difficult for any universal standard of either law or material welfare to be popular, and the oligarchy has no intention of helping. Younger generations face huge problems in the employment field, military and security agencies continue to hog funding and influence even as the state’s other functions fall into disrepair, antiscientific and authoritarian ideas run rampant propagated by religious institutions that are made increasingly powerful by the fact that they fill the gap left by the indifferent state institutions.

    So clearly, nothing there that mirrors the United States.

  210. 210.

    glory b

    @efgoldman: Bakhari (sp?)Sellers (heard his name before, but IDK who he is) started the ball rolling after someone on the panel said his statements “Didn’t exactly comport with the truth.”

    He said let’s call this what it is, it’s a lie. The conservachick said no one cares about that, but didn’t deny it.

  211. 211.

    Stan

    @Major Major Major Major: I am a New Yorker and, until this week, not a great fan of Gillibrand. I had nothing against her really, but, I wasn’t seeing the potential others see.

    She deserves kudos for her NO votes on these nominees. She was the ONLY ‘no’ on Mattis.

  212. 212.

    Stan

    @Lizzy L:

    I do not believe that Assange has the tax returns. The IRS will not leak them, you can put that out of your minds. We may never see them.

    The IRS won’t leak, but the accounting firm that completed them can.

    The New York State department of taxation could leak also.

    The incentives are just too big here. I *do* think we’ll see them at some point.

  213. 213.

    The Truffle

    @Stan: I am guessing that Gillbrand is gearing for a 2020 run.

    I’m floored by Warren’s vote on Carson. Didn’t Sanders also vote for one or two of Hair Furor’s picks?

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