Valued commenter Jeffro shared an anecdote in the morning thread that got my attention because I’ve witnessed the phenomenon myself:
I don’t know if anyone else is having a similar experience, but as I mentioned last night, Mrs. Jeffro is now almost as painfully up on all things political as I am (and that is saying something). It’s been a little shocking to see a pretty mild-mannered moderate lefty turn into an enraged daily activist – she’s been calling our senators every single day, is ready to donate the kids’ college accounts to PP and the ACLU, and plans on registering as a Muslim with me if it comes to that. (Like, WOW, dear!) Seeing the Women’s March…seeing just how incredibly bad Trump has been since the election …it all has really opened her eyes. To which I can only say, “How about we go pitchfork shopping this weekend, dear?” =)
My always-liberal but never an activist / political junkie sister has undergone a similar transformation. She sent me a text a couple of days ago reminding me to call our senators to oppose DeVos. I almost dropped the phone! That’s MY job, damn it! Actually, I’m proud of her and was proud to march with her in DC.
Other non-political friends have experienced a similar awakening. During conversations with people I know only casually, I’ve picked up on a raised eyebrow here, pursed lips there plus subtle expressions of disgust and returned the same, and soon, we’re openly raking Trump over the coals and discussing which Democrat we’d like to see run for school board, council, state senator, governor, US senator, etc.
I pray (in my secular way) that the election of the unhinged, unqualified demagogue has awakened a sleeping giant. That could change the political calculus in this country profoundly. The problem is sustaining appropriate levels of outrage and avoiding acceptance of this state of affairs as normal. Here’s a graphic I saw on Twitter that excerpts a Charles Blow column; it explains what’s at stake eloquently:
Outrage cuts both ways. It is what brought us to this pass: Damn near all of us have stories about seeing a formerly fair-minded and beloved elder transformed into a hate-filled Fox News zombie. Those folks are gone.
But we can counter lies with truth and hate with love, not through fake outrage fomented via a lying propaganda outlet but with healthy resistance to bad policies and objections to the degrading of important standards, shared via our personal relationships.
We just have to stay focused and stay outraged in a good way. It won’t be easy, but it’s necessary.
I see you have found hope. I am hoping to get to the point where I have hope.
Re-posting my rant from downstairs, because I want to.
So a couple of times I’ve posted about this clueless woman I work with, yesterday we were talking and I was telling her about the massive grift the shitgibbon and his family are currently engaged in, like the doubling of Mar-a-Lago membership fees, the demand foreign governments stay at his DC hotel which is suddenly sold out. Any hoo she replied that the demand probably went up because he won, so it was the market driving the rate hike. I pointed out that the entire family is trying to monetize the presidency, from Melania hawking her jewelry, to Ivanka selling her clothes, to the boys selling access to their father. Her reply was that all politicians sell access, (she mentioned the Lincoln bedroom) so I said to her the difference is that they are raising money for campaigns and for the party, they are not personally pocketing the money. Her reply was that she’ll have to check it out for herself, she doesn’t like to rely on hearsay, like she just hates Joy Behar because she just says stuff that’s just not true. She is an American, and she supports the president. So today I was telling her about Charlotte and Michael and then about LAO, and Walter, and BJ, so she was saying she’d check it out since she loves animals, I warned her that ye we love animals here, but it’s more politics than pet blogging, and given how she feels about Joy, be warned, but we do provide sources for what we are pissed about. Her response made me go off on her, she went into “both siderism” nonsense, and said by the way she doesn’t really follow politics, she’s just not political, and she just supports the leaders of our country. She was trying to placate me, to say that she’s not partisan, she is neutral, and they all do it. I said that she is the problem, people like her who ignored everything that went on for the last two years, who voted for change, something different, and now keep being surprised at what he’s doing. You didn’t pay attention, now you keep saying he’ll get better, his aides will calm him down, anyone who’s paid attention the last couple of years would know by now that no one tells him what to do, no one puts bay in the corner. That is what you people who liked the idea of change did. Do you have any idea how much of the federal government is discretionary, how much is defense, SS, and Medicare? Until you drastically reduce those three things, you will never reduce government spending in any meaningful way. You people bitch about the schools, roads, the DMV and property taxes, the property taxes are what pay for those things, if you keep cutting them, they will only deteriorate further, it’s a self-fulfilling prophecy. People like you are responsible for what happens over the next four years, you choose to ignore everything going on all around you, then casually walked into the booth and voted for “change”, well now you have it, let’s see how you like it.
The Moar You Know
I am having the opposite experience. The Trump voters in my office suddenly have no interest in politics whatsoever and know nothing about what is going on in the news at all.
the Conster, la Citoyenne
Tell her the manbaby she voted for photoshopped his hand to be bigger than it is – as it’s resting on President Obama’s arm – on one of his inauguration photos hanging in the White House. true story.
My 14 year-old daughter now gives a morning brief of the news at breakfast – and then promises, once again, not to smash Trump supporting classmates in the face as she passes them in the hallway.
“Do you think I would get suspended if I smashed the really smug ones just once?”
“Might be worth it.”
Major Major Major Major
I posted this once or twice but will share it one last time. It’s from somebody who lived under Chavez (who some of the lefties I know continue to insist was a hero, but w/e):
I’m with you, Betty, but it’s such a steep road ahead. Just now, a caller on NPR’s On Point insisted Trump’s approval rating is at 59%. How do you fight the bullshit?
THIS IS NOT NORMAL !!!!!
Last night I happened upon my Mom watching CNN, and I caught Jeff Zeleny being asked about Steve Bannon telling the media to shut up. He said he agreed with him, the country just voted for change, obviously they wanted something different, and it’s now the job of the media to sit back and watch change happen. The media missed what was going on in the country, so now maybe they should shut up and listen. I didn’t stick around long enough to hear what if any pushback there was over his bullshit, but it validated my decision to not watch cable “news”.
STOP NORMALIZING THIS SHIT !!!
Gin & Tonic
@the Conster, la Citoyenne: That can’t possibly be true. Can it?
NPR committed journalism this morning.
When they said that Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Egypt and United Arab Emirates are not on the list of states where we have placed a blanket ban on visas;
NPR mentioned that those nations are where Trump has business interests – and they are also allies.
Thanks for re-relaying the story, Betty!
@Humdog: Humdog, if you want hope, there are plenty of signs that this gang of morons won’t be able to pull this off for long…
lil’ Nikki Haley, telling the rest of the world that TRUMP IS TAKING NAMES!!!1!
Catherine Rampell reminding us why TRUMP ADMIN SUPER BIG LOOZER just like his failed businesses
Mike Pence = dog about to catch the car with recommending an INVESTIGATION INTO VOTE FRAUD (I hear FBI counter-intelligence can help you with that, Mikey)
Be happy warriors folks! Keep up with the workouts and get your rest!
Now if you’ll excuse me, the Mrs. and I will be off shopping for those pitchforks…TOGETHER! I like the 4-tine models myself…
LOVE Jeffro’s comment (which I hadn’t seen before)! Thanks for posting, Betty.
@Jeffro So where does one go pitchfork shopping, as most (?) of the big box store’s corporate overlords I believe are Trump and/or GOP supporters?
Re Blow’s op-ed/comments, I just hope we can keep the resistance going through the mid-terms, and that we sweep a bunch of Dems into power.
As for Trump the Unhinged, does he remind any of you U.S. History buffs (or Hamilton fans) of any other unhinged former American ruler? (Maybe we will overthrow this one, too.)
@The Moar You Know:
Maybe you could help them with that, like, loudly? On the hour? =)
@Major Major Major Major: I read that, but there wasn’t any real advice on what to do. Which makes sense, since they utterly failed in their resistance. Just a list of things that didn’t work for them.
That shows not even a blind trust would have worked. No one can erase Trump’s knowing where his businesses are.
THis is reassuring (snark). Der Fuhrer says he has given Sec. of Defense Matttis the authority to over ride him (i.e.POTUS) on the issue of torture. Der Fuhrer must think we are all as stupid as the GOP – what he gives to Mattis he can take away. Only treal question is will Mattis obey an illegal order or resign in protest.
As I responded to you:
This is the way to respond to these people, they are at fault for voting for change without knowing, understanding or investigating what change they were voting for. Personally I think they voted with their racist hats on. I’ve known too many white people who are definitely not KKK or aryan nations members but are what I call subtle racists. (not bad on the surface, but scratch that surface even the slightest….)
BTW I tell them that taxes are the cost of having a civil society. And they want that, no matter how much they deny it. They want SS, Medicare, decent roads, etc. They even want the destitute taken care of, because if they aren’t they will be living outside their homes begging for scraps. There are too many of us to have the wild west any longer, too many poor, too many almost poor, too many very well off taking everything, too many thinking that they can just get by and that’s OK…..
@The Moar You Know: It is difficult to tell since memory is flawed, but I do not remember every single news item being about Obama the first week. Maybe the stock market was down, or there were extra fatalities in Iraq or Afghanistan. But other things happened than all Obama all the time.
But the media seems to be continuing on all Trump all the time – whether for good or ill. It sure seems like that part is NOT being normalized, and the media is just shocked
Major Major Major Major
@Mike J: A list of things that didn’t work can be quite instructive. I’ll admit that it’s framed weirdly, possibly to get people to actually read it, but I still found it interesting and likely helpful.
@catclub: I should note that the entire world was still sort of collapsing during Obama’s first week.
It is according to Rassmusen, but……
Rassmussen 55 45
Gallup 45 48
Quinnipiac 36 46
PPP 44 44
Econ/YouGov 43 39
Reuters 43 45
Those are all the polls from this week, two have him in positive territory unprecedented for a newly elected president. He said he would be historic, he’s only just begun to show us just how historic.
ETA: even in touting his positive poll number, they have to lie, he’s at 55 not 59. They lie like they breathe, all the time.
@Major Major Major Major: Retweeting a link to this in 3, 2, 1…thanks Major!
I feel like that should have ended with the sound of a door slamming or something similar.
Somebody at LGM noted that Trump’s Holocaust Day Remembrance neglected to mention Jews. I figure Steve Bannon wrote that one, rather than Jared Kushner.
@catclub: Iraq is on the list and they are ‘allies’ or at the very least have American troops on the ground and in harms way fighting Daesh. But the larger point is true.
Even if Trump totally divests himself of his business holdings it doesn’t solve the problem. At this point in his life he has money to burn so other than for ego he doesn’t need the business relationships. But as long as his family members are in control of the business, then whatever helps the business helps the family. It is still a conflict.
On an activist note I would like to see activists/citizens target Paul Ryan and Mitch MccConnel directly. Not instead of going after Trump with marches but in addition. It takes millions of people to make a dent in the popular vision of Trump but it would only take tens of thousands to freak the fuck out of Mitch McConnel and Paul Ryan–like 20 thousand showing up at their home offices demanding to know why they are not stopping “fatally erratic” Trump and why they are permitting incompetent Republican governance to destroy Medicare and the ACA.
I want to see the attacks shift to people saying direction “Republican rule is INCOMPETENT.” Republican rule is CORRUPT.
W/r/t people like Hovercraft’s moron friend I try to find some common ground and agreement and then begin storytelling at a level that they can grasp–something intimate and close to them. If its global warming I will point out that the cherry harvest is coming two weeks earlier every year. If its medicare I will talk about specific people we know who rely on it. If its social security I will ask if they are prepared to have their parents move in with them. IF its the ACA I will get them to admit that they rely on it even though they don’t know they do. And I hammer away not at how different Trump is from ordinary politicians but how he is just as corrupt but on steroids. If they say that “he’s rich so he doesn’t need to do X” I point out that he got rich by ripping people off, its literally all he knows. And I point out that Ryan and McConnel are neck deep in enabling him and just as bad.
Just as in working through other types of problems, it’s easier to maintain enthusiasm in a group. Go to indivisible.com and be amazed at all the small local groups that are getting active. Join a group, or start your own. Read the guide and start voicing your concerns effectively rather than helplessly. This president is unprecedented, but so is this already massive movement to oppose him and what he stands for. Let’s do this.
Okay, so we’ve pissed off China, mortally offended Mexico, and now our new UN ambassador is telling the rest of our allies that they’d better damn well fall in line or we’ll be “taking names”.
Pretty good for just the first fucking week, yeah?
The big box stores do sell pitchforks. Their owners, as selfish and horrible as they are, are not going to miss a sale just because we might use the article to deflate their oversized egos, among other uses.
My wife (college professor at a City University of NY school) had Hillary as her school’s graduation speaker one year and loved how she inspired the diverse students in her class, but has always been apolitical really. A Bronx girl, she always felt like politics happened “over there’ except for NYC politics.
When Hillary declared Mrs. LG gradually starting following what was happening, read policy papers and listened to speeches, and was really shocked at the low-grade crapola that was the Republican bench. When Trump won the nomination she was disgusted, but even more excited that Hillary would take out the loser real-estate developer. She has a real New Yorker’s contempt for hollow men like Trump.
Now she follows politics every day, researches what’s actually going on, argues with her FB friends, and is getting involved in local politics. I’m a junkie, but this campaign and election have really motivated some nominal Democrats into angry, take-no-crap DEMOCRATS.
@John Revolta: But Vlad is happy!
Cris (without an H)
Which is just fine.
@Ruckus: I think the three tine version is classier – also probably deeper penetration.
@aimai: I like your idea of stories. It seems one of the best ways to wake people up.
And going after McConnell and Ryan directly sends happy shivers up my spine. Great idea!
Major Major Major Major
This is happening to the politically active, too, for better and worse. A couple of my closest friends, who are to my left but not lefties, have moved from ‘politically engaged white-collar activists’ to ‘I am now concerned that my biggest physical danger is accidentally being shot by them when they buy guns.’
@catclub: I agree with the argument that liberals should not start acting like they demand that “those” countries be added to the list, since we are opposed to the list in general. However, those countries actually have significant numbers of non-immigrant visa holders. Sufficient when combined I think to actually make a dent in the hospitality industry. Not huge, but a feel-able bump. What he’s avoiding is any “pain” for his industry. The numbers of visitors from the other countries is much smaller. Overall, about 3-4% of tourists come from the middle east (if excluding Mexico and Canada). That is a blip that would be felt.
Zeleny is the worst.
Wait til his senior citizen voters learn that he does not mean to keep his promise to protect Medicare and Social Security. I am hoping that gets their attention.
@Hildebrand: Teach her better target control. Show her what the “fashy” hair style looks like. Those are the folks you can best get away with punching.
@The Moar You Know: A year from now, maybe less, they won’t have even voted for him.
Это курам на смех
@The Moar You Know:
That’s the predicable fingers in ears, la la la la la response. They will keep it up until the next election.
My Action Item of the Day:
My state has bills pending in both the house and senate that require presidential and vp candidates to release their tax returns before they will be placed on the general election ballot. No tax returns? No votes. I’ve contacted both my state senator and delegate to support it.
Check your state govts website for pending legislation and please do the same. If you don’t see anything similar pending, contact your reps and ask them to introduce. This should be a bi-partisan no-brainer. NO candidate of ANY party should be able to put the country in the position that McTwitter has put us in.
Whats the latest from a Trump spokesman. ” We’ll be taking names…” Is Trump becoming Fat Tony?
comrade scotts agenda of rage
Same thing happened here. I’m normally the fire breathing Bolshie but after being together 35 years, my wife is saying “I want to sell the B&B and become a full time activist”.
She went to DC to protest on Twitler’s High Holy Day and the next day at the Women’s March. She now even picks up on how my “why NPR sucks mightily” rants make sense. She’s a sight to behold.
@D58826: Neither he nor Mattis has the power to authorize or not authorize torture. So it’s all just a shell game.
Great post, Betty. Hear, hear.
An important corollary to the “awakening” Betty Cracker focused her opening essay on is:
– the pool of voters who elected Trump is NOT a monolithic body of whom all have crossed over the event horizon into the unreachable wingnut singularity.
– instead, the apt analogy is to a swimming pool in which there is a deep end where there truly is a huge mass of irretrievably lost swimmers BUT
– there is also a considerable number who only waded shallowly in, either because they were hoping for personal economic improvement, or because they thought they were making the less bad choice between the most terribly awful candidates in their lifetime – a terrible mistake that reflects badly on their momentary judgment on a variety of fronts, but neither have they crossed over into the epistemologically closed universe of those at the deep end.
True, it is a fool’s errand to try to reach the many who eagerly attended Trump rallies, the noisily visible ones we usually think of as “Trump voters’. We shouldn’t waste any of our efforts trying to reach them – they’re irretrievably gone across a political event horizon.
HOWEVER, it is essential, and quite doable for us to reach a significant proportion of the shallow-end Trump voters, many of whom are already beginning to harbor nervous doubts from what they’ve witnessed of Trump and his team over the transition, and especially his first week in office. We don’t have to compromise being progressives do this, but we do need to come across as the determinedly sensible ones.
@Inmourning: That still may not get their attention, because the Repubs are too smart to take away those bennnies from people who already have it (ACA excepted). They will, however, screw over those Trumpsters’ kids. I’m not sure they’ll care.
Formerly disgruntled in Oregon
@Major Major Major Major: Thank you for posting again. I found that article to be very interesting.
@D58826: Yeah, that’s the important thing, amirite?
@Major Major Major Major: Friends of mine in TN are stocking up on land, razor wire, and guns.
Well, Rasmussen did have him at 59% for one day (yesterday) — back at 55% today — but it’s misleading and disingenuous to claim it as his “approval rating.” It isn’t. It’s a one-day snapshot from a polling firm that skews Trumpward.
@aimai: Yes we need to tie T around the necks for Paulie Blue Eyes and turtle in the itchy human suit, McConnell. Yesterday while I was getting my prescription filled I heard the pharmacists talking about how fucked up the current Congress is. I used to never hear conversations about politics everywhere like this. But now its everywhere, coffee shops, pharmacies, you name it.
Trump apparently Photoshopped his hands to make them bigger in a photo hanging in the White House.
No, this is not a joke
Somewhere, Kim Il-Sung is pissed that Photoshop didn’t exist when that tumor started growing on his neck.
I also have a relative who was formerly apolitical who’s gotten active! It’s weird but good.
Betty Cracker: An eloquent and inspiring post.
The country will depend on many people being “woke” in the long days and months ahead.
Long time reader (I love you guyz), first time ranter here! Betty, I sure hope you’re right. Only downside is that during the campaign, I disparaged my nutty ex (Stein voter, so help me FSM) for saying the shitgibbon’s election* would provoke revolution at last. We need it, but dammit it stings when he’s right about anything!
@EBT: One of her taekwondo instructors reminded her – use an open-handed strike, never a closed fist. Less chance of being tagged with an assault charge.
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
The student angrily waving the Red Banner of the Vanguard of the Workers and Soldiers (I kid her a little) is my youngest daughter.
LOL, just saw this in a New York magazine squib about Callista Gingrich possibly becoming the ambassador to the Vatican:
That’s from Rasmussen. Even they can only lie for so long.
@hovercraft: I have so little patience for people like that; their ignorance makes me angry, so I’m tempted to say things that are counterproductive. For example, if someone told me she “just supports the leaders of her country,” I’d say, “So did the Germans in 1939.” Zero to Godwin in one second!
My husband is much better at dealing with folks like that and even worse people, probably because he’s exposed to them all the time at work. He’s patient and persuasive. Me, not so much. I should never be in charge of outreach. I suck at it.
@Hildebrand: I wish we had had kids, so I could have a daughter like yours. You can tell her that.
And tell her it’s never OK to smash someone in the face, unless you’re absolutely sure you won’t get caught.
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
Or will he refuse to obey and refuse to resign?
@Ruckus: Not to pick on you, I can’t quite get my head around why so many argue that racism was a huge component in Trump’s victory. Sure, it was there (look at Trump’s announcement speech), but Obama won twice. Surely if racism was going to have a huge impact it would have happened in 2008 and 2012, right?
All the major national candidates were white.
I know BLM didn’t start until July 2013, and lots and lots of people really hate them and the movement. But I don’t think that was a major factor, either.
Surely sexism and misogyny was a much bigger factor than racism this time?
@Major Major Major Major:
I’m not sure that this is helpful. Most of Chavez’ opponents were Deplorables, selfish, narrow minded and racist, who despised the underclass and cared only about their own comfort,
Their past opposition to reasonable reform is a lesson in how people like Trump rise up.
Major Major Major Major
@Ian G.: Do you remember Kim Jong-Il Looking At Things?
You mean like her infamous legislator report card system that she quickly abandoned?
@LibraryGuy: I’ve been a politically informed Democratic booster for years, discussing with people when and where I can. But for the last 7 months of the election and the blatant sexism towards Hillary and horrible behavior from Trump and the Media, I’ve gotten a lot more combative.
For example, used to use a lot of “If you feel that way it’s fine, but you should be aware of the facts” to friends and relatives. Now it’s more along the lines of “If you can’t see that X is a lie and that this really matters, then I’m not really sure what to say to you.” I also told a cousin that people like him were going to be the reason Trump was elected (he referred to Hillary as a “warmongering corporate whore” on numerous occasions) and I’ve only mildly thrown it back at him a couple of times since, when he was talking about necessary Leftist unity after Trump’s win.
I get the impression there’s a lot of people like me. We were willing to be nice and polite before, but we’ve had enough and we’re actually letting others know what we think when they go off the deep end.
As I believe Lenin said, “The capitalists will sell us the pitchforks with which we poke them in the ass.”
Pretty sure he said that.
Major Major Major Major
@Brachiator: And Germans were legit upset about runaway inflation and the Treaty of Versailles, yet we find their example instructive too.
@Ian G.: Holy. Fucking. Shit. This fucking guy…. wow. I mean just… wow. I need one of those “mind blown” gifs to express my reaction to this shit.
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
I think it was a combo. For better or for worse, a lot of things changed all at once, and a not insignificant rump of white people got their backs up.
I’ll also say that gay men really disappointed me – once marriage equality got delivered, they voted more like white males than they should have, considering who delivered.
@aimai: Very important point about keeping Ryan and McConnell in our sights. They are dangerous: unlike Trump, they actually know how to wield their full power to shred the social insurance system. They were dreaming of doing so long before Trump decided to run.
I’m not sure how those of us who do not live in Kentucky or Wisconsin can apply much pressure to them, I am open to suggestions on how to support such efforts.
And I heart Charles Blow.
I’ll have to look and see if there are any free-range, locally-sourced, vegan- (and Crossfit!)-approved pitchforks available at the nearest commune. =)
Barring that…Lowe’s can have a couple bucks profit off that sale, as I will literally be taking it right back off of the CEO’s hide…
Tridents may be more versatile. Just sayin’.
Magazines are still a thing. Check out the new Time cover.
And in the “awkward!” category, Vanity Fair, Mexico Ole!
I am noticing the same thing Betty, I believe they have awoken a sleeping giant that will dwarf Life Marchers or Tea Party doofuses.
And we’re smart, educated, we read, we know history, science and psychology. We kinda rock and I am guessing unstoppable – it will come in waves, so when one group gets a bit tired and needs a break, another will continue the march toward getting our country back.
Major Major Major Major
@Jeffro: Isn’t Home Depot supposed to have good labor practices? Or is it the other way around?
My 13 year old is pissed about the way the press cover the tangerine tin pot. Last night it went like this “mom the headline is Trimp claims… and then you have to read to like the fifth paragraph to find out that his claim isn’t true”
@Another Scott: It’s both. There was a lot of misogyny and sexism for sure, but many people were outraged by BLM and Obama’s continued success… and NFLG Obama also cheesed them off quite a bit and kept these reprobates angry and feeling entitled.
Not to mention that racism contributed in a lot of other ways, such as allowing Trump to run as a “law and order” president and letting him criticize Hillary’s refugee plan, etc.
Agreed. Per that article that M4 linked to, we need to shift the discussion to just how BAD FOR THE COUNTRY they are. Once businesses big and small start to see the negative impacts, they’ll join the chorus (if not actually joining the Left!)
Respect for him?
He will receive the same respect that he gave 44 the 4 years he peddled in birtherism.
Compromise with him? on what?
See, so many of these delusional nitwits don’t get that folks see no way of compromise.
Bring up the issues:
The taking away of Health Insurance for over 20 million Americans
The destruction of the Public Schools
The destruction of Medicare
The destruction of Social Security
JUST EXACTLY WHAT DO YOU THINK I’M GOING TO COMPROMISE ON?
That you are a patriotic American, and can’t see legitimate someone that a foreign power helped get elected. I told y’all. The Republicans shouldn’t be allowed to utter the word patriotism from now on. I dunno about you, but I’ve decided to wrap myself in the flag and ask them to explain away how they’re comfortable with a hostile foreign power undermining America sovereignty.
@Jeffro: LOL :-)
Oh…you saw that picture of him boarding the helicopter, too? =)
Major Major Major Major
This is also espoused by journalists who have made the Trump-Berlusconi comparison. He was in the end beaten not by pointing out how completely insane he was, but by treating him like a normal politician who had absolutely ruinous policies.
@Another Scott: No, that’s completely wrong. BLM put a certain scary, in your face, black activism in front of white suburban voters and Trump exploited their fear and resentment of it to the nth degree. Gallup’s poll of top voter concerns during the last 10 elections show that voter’s began to perceive racial issues as prominent only in this last election. Obama ran on an explicitly unifying, purple state, theme. But after he got in white voters and republicans began attacking him for not “solving” the problem of racism in the Us which they interpreted as a “problem” caused by black people still resenting slavery or asking for “special treatment.” HRC inherited the roiling Obama hate of the right wing, and at the same time the ramping up of BLM was folded into their feeling that black people are never satisfied and were going to keep demanding more stuff/attacking white people. [This is absolutely explicit in right wing writing about BLM]
Voting/ not voting for Barack Obama is not the only litmus test for racism in US society. Far from it. In addition there were millions of people who voted for McCain/the republican party who always would have whose implicit racism (old style racism, new style racism) was simply hidden in their general tendency to vote republican. As for the White ethnic democratic voters–a sliver of them flipped and voted for Trump because of their resentment that after eight years of Obama and globalism their economic position was no better, and they were being told by fox news and their trumpy n ew best friends that black people “always revolting.”
@Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes:
She’s clearly inherited your spirit.
The factors are additive, not binary.
The sentiment from many Trump supporters has been “stop Hillary AND erase all traces of Obama’s legacy.”
How could the racism nurtured so long by Trump’s vile embrace of birtherism magical go away this election cycle? And did you miss the rise of the alt right and David Duke and all the Facebook and other social media eruptions of people who thought it was OK to be openly racist again?
Or even the whining of some supposed liberal Democrats, “Why does Hillary have to have all those black women around her?”
And on top of this has also been a rejection of mainstream Republicans and Democrats. This is obviously blind to the reality that the Empire Strikes Back, as Paul Ryan and all the other Republicans are shaping a new America with Trump’s nodding approval.
@Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes: Go, girl!
@Another Scott: It was both, IMO. The BLM phenomenon ginned up white resentment in a way I haven’t seen in decades. If it had happened before the 2012 election, I’m pretty sure there would have been a President Romney.
These people are so dumb. that they are actually making the media do their jobs, or at least start to.
Reality check: Many of Trump’s early vows will probably never happen
Many of the sweeping actions President Trump vowed this week are impractical, opposed by Congress, or full of legal holes. This reality underscores his chaotic start, which includes executive actions drafted by close aides rather than experts and without input from the agencies tasked with implementing them.
By Ashley Parker and Sean Sullivan Wa Post
Chuck Todd: Trump Acting Like It’s “Festivus,” Hasn’t Realized He Has No Time To Air “Petty Grievances”
CNN’s David Gregory: Maybe The White House Wants “To Create A Ministry Of Propaganda”
Carl Bernstein: For Trump And His Administration, “The Opposition Is Not The Media; The Opposition Is Becoming The Truth”
Christiane Amanpour Rejects Trump Administration’s Attacks On The Press: “We’re Not Going To Shut Up”
Mainstream Media Lives Rent-Free In Steve Bannon’s Head And It’s Killing Him
Just a few headlines.
Can someone pleas dig my post out of the spam filter, please?
@MisterForkbeard: Yup. That’s definitely me. I came and read BJ but never commented. I never pushed back when people threw bullshit at me in real life, I just politely declined to engage. I always voted but never really got active with campaigns. I was perfectly tolerant of my crazy winger relatives. No more. This election broke me of that once and for all. It’s encouraging to see I’m not the only one.
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes:
You win. :)
Rasmussen = GOP and so is dismissed. Quinnipiac shows a very different picture.
@MomSense: Yep. My daughter’s go-to sources (BBC, WaPo, CNN) are giving her quite the education in how to do a close reading of a news article. She assumes Trump’s knavery will be buried, so she knows she has to be careful. She has asked me for sites that will allow her to do follow-up.
@Ian G.: OMG. It’s not terribly obvious to me until I compared the hand size with Obama’s head. Then, OMG! It’s almost as big as Obama’s head!
Hi EBT, here is a list of questions for your friends in TN:
1) are you ready to capture and loot the local armory? (if you don’t, the militia in the next county over most certainly will)
2) what kind of weapons are stored in that armory?
3) how many tubes will you need to be “ready”?
… 3.a) how many shells?
… 3.b) has anyone in your group practiced with the artillery?
4) where is your food supply and how will you protect it?
5) where is your fuel supply and how will you protect it?
6) what will you do if your food and/or fuel suppliers do not want to sell to you?
… 6.a) just take it?
… 6.b) kill the vendor and then take it?
There is more, but you no doubt have the picture.
My question for folks suddenly more interested in “respect for the office” than the office-holder: what have you done over the last eight years to preserve and promote the office of president?
Debunked and withdrawn by the original poster.
@Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes:
You are obviously a stellar parent, you did good.
So did she.
I’m Black, but here’s why I argue it.
Because, in 2008 and 2012, they could hide behind dogwhistles.
The elimination of dogwhistles. The unwillingness to denounce White Supremacists. This shyt wasn’t hidden. It was right there. For anyone to see. So, if you voted for him, then, that meant that him peddling in OPEN Racism. Him being cozy with WHITE SUPREMACISTS was ok with you.
I’m never going to leave this point. Ever.
The vote in 2016 didn’t define Cheeto Benito.
It defined the VOTERS who pulled the lever for him, and they should never, and I do mean never, be allowed to try and weasel away from what voting for THAT MAN meant.
@Jeffro: Holy crap, that Nikki Haley address! It’s just as the commenter says: it’s like a corporate takeover.
Of the UN. By the US. Who doesn’t own the UN. That will go well, right?
Enhanced Voting Techniques
Well played Mam, well played.
@Major Major Major Major: Yep. If we can shift the conversation from “republicans are insane” to “Republicans fucking ruin everything because their policies are awful AND they’re insane and corrupt”, we’ve made a huge dent.
It’s the only thing that’ll keep them from resurfacing every two years with a shiny new demagogue, too. You have to discredit the entire ideology rather than individual practitioners or you’re just buying time.
Major Major Major Major
@debbie: Or just play with the aggregate. Excluding Rasmussen, it’s 45% approve, 48% disapprove. Quinnipiac has been the lowest one so far, not as much of an outlier as Rasmussen but still out there.
Edit: @rikyrah: One of my theories is that the elimination of the dog whistles, particularly about Mexicans, is what led to his improvement over previous Republicans among uneducated Midwesterners. He didn’t improve in the South. Only Southerners had been trained to hear the dog whistles. The exurban Midwest was an untapped pocket of white resentment.
I am surrounded by these people, a few minutes ago I caught a snippet of a conversation as I walked by, one guy said maybe he should have voted for Wilmer, the woman he was talking to mumbled something about the Shitgibbon, and he replied that they need things shaken up, and all he’s doing is undoing all the shit that Obama did. I kept walking, I’ve had my daily fill of bullshit, and hitting people or calling them fucking morons is not professional.
@Steeplejack (phone): awwww… that’s no fun.
What’s all this fuss I hear about “poutine resistance?”
Speak for yourself, lady, some of us are idiots too and we want to be loved just like the smarties.
Or “Christianity,” for that matter.
@Yoda Dog: Absolutely. I’m seeing the same thing with extended family members and friends. Trump’s election and the complicit media (EMAILS!) has turned a lot of soft support into in-your-face supporters who won’t put up with this BS any longer. Hell, my largely apolitical wife (who also hates confrontation) literally spent 10 minutes yelling at her dad, an avid Trump supporter/Hillary hater. And she’s talked to me about getting yard signs and taking the daughters (infant and toddler) to marches and protests when we can.
As someone else in this thread said, they’ve awakened a sleeping giant. If we can just keep these people fed up and engaged, it’s not going to be pretty for republicans.
Dammit. Poe’s Law strikes again.
Regardless, this first week under Cheez Whiz Ceausescu makes me feel like I’m living in a Monty Python spoof of fascism.
Ok this probably qualifies for the worlds smallest violins award
@Major Major Major Major:
The Treaty of Versailles was a historical fact. The lessons to be learned are about how Hitler and others stoked resentment in building his own popularity and political strength.
I’m not seeing anything instructive or relevant in the Chavez puff piece, especially since it is blind to the love of oligarchy built into its supposed distaste for populist authoritarians.
My experience mirrors Jeffro’s almost exactly, with the additional wrinkle that it’s not just my wife but my mother, too. My wife was always fairly liberal but not too engaged politically, and my mom was an apolitical right-leaning centrist type. That’s all over now; they’re both obsessively following the news, signing up for activist events, and breathing fire whenever the subject of Twitler comes up (much to the consternation of some extended family members who were used to being able to spout whatever RWNJ nonsense they wanted without being contradicted). And that’s not even mentioning all of my formerly kid-and-dog picture-only FB friends who’ve turned into political warriors overnight. It’s weird but awesome.
So even though the news has been relentlessly depressing this week, I feel more hopeful than I have since the election. I really don’t think the Trumpies and their quislings in Congress realize what they’ve awoken; if we can survive the next couple of years, this could be a once-in-a-lifetime kind of political realignment, with the bad guys on the wrong side of history’s broom.
@Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes:
That’s fucking awesome.
@RandyG: Blame Canada!
It was there from the moment Gates was accused of breaking into his own house. Obama’s sympathizing with Gates brought on the lie that he only cared about other Blacks, which freed up the future Trumpsters to release their rascist inner beasts.
@Steeplejack (phone): Rats.
@Major Major Major Major:
I think this is baloney. The hyperinflation and beer hall putsch were in 1923. Then the Weimar republic pretty much recovered in comparison with the rest of Europe by 1927-28.
However, in 1933 there was 47% unemployment in Germany and THAT pushed them over the edge.
Anyone who learned the lesson that hyperinflation must be stopped, because it leads to fascism ( today’s German bankers!) learned the wrong lesson.
Hyperinflation kills financial assets that rich people hold – bonds and the debts of others – those rich people hate it. But it did not lead inexorably to Hitler 10 years later.
I am still amazed that Spain and Greece in 2010 did not have revolutions with 25+% unemployment.
Conservatives are up in arms screaming misogyny (oh the hypocrisy) about this Steve Bell cartoon in The Guardian. It looks at the “unique” relationship between the US and the UK.
It is an homage to another great satirist James Gillray and his piece “Fashionable Contrasts” published January 24, 1792
@MisterForkbeard: Yay! It really is inspiring, having such blatant evil to oppose. Still, I’m sure all of us would rather be sitting around bitching about how Hillary’s cabinet picks weren’t lefty enough.
@debbie: Yep. If you look at his post “honeymoon” approval collapse, it is definitely related to his failed attempt to spend time trying to win the Olympics for Chicago, his Nobel Prize win, and the “beer summit”. Which do you think was the biggest factor?
Major Major Major Major
@catclub: OK, I was ahistorically picking the wrong legitimate grievance, but my point stands – the Germans had legitimate grievances too, and we don’t pooh-pooh their example as non-instructive.
At any rate, I’m very unsure what to make of Brachiator’s “it is blind to the love of oligarchy built into its supposed distaste for populist authoritarians” comment.
It’s hard to tell how much was race and how much was gender. Think of the people who came out who hadn’t voted in years, they were the democrats who came out in 2006. Remember back in 2004, when everyone on our side thought that Bush had no chance, we all assumed that as terrible as he was there was no way he could win, but he did, and in the end by a comfortable margin. That s how these people who came out of the woodwork felt about Obama, they knew he was terrible, so terrible that his fluke of an election would not stand, he would be beaten in 2012, but of course he won comfortably. This is why these people came out of the woodwork to make damn sure that Hillary who was not only an evil bitch herself, but who worked for Obama, promised to cement his legacy, and obviously had his support, and the support of those people, would not, could not be allowed to win. Not when they had a candidate who promised to put thing back the way they should be, Take The Country back from those people, not share it with them as she obviously wanted to. It was about race and gender. Part of defeating her, was erasing him, the Shitgibbon would do all he could to make that blip seem like it never happened.
I don’t think you can separate which was a bigger factor, but I do think that we may have focused so much on race, that we underestimated the degree to which misogyny would rear it’s ugly head.
@The Moar You Know:
Oh that made me laugh.
@RandyG: It is favored by Jesus – blessed are the cheesemakers.
@Hildebrand: Less chance of breaking your thumb too. Also a base palm strike can be damn near debilitating without leaving much of a mark on your own body, perfect for hit and run.
Don’t forget “Trayvon could have been my son.” They still bring that one up regularly.
His continual degradation of “otherness” as a tool to attract and energize his voters is IMHO the keystone of the entire campaign, both to earn the nomination and ultimately the election. That otherness extended to race and gender is inarguable. To what degree it ultimately helped can perhaps be quantified at some point and in those “firewall” states it damn obviously made the difference.
My wife has also gone from voting Dem but not paying a whole lot of attention to politics, to following in detail everything from Trump down to the county Board of Ed.
I’m not paying any more attention – I’ve always been a political junkie – but I’m making a lot more calls to our Congresscritters.
Steve in the ATL
@Major Major Major Major:
Good lord no. Their atrocious labor practices are the primary reason I don’t shop there.
Mike in NC
Just sat down after running some pre-weekend errands. The Washington Post has the following online article by Chris Cillizza: “The leaks coming out of the Trump White House cast the president as a clueless child”. Wow.
Major Major Major Major
@Mike in NC: Wow, when you’ve lost Chinchilla…
@Steve in the ATL: Learning is fun!
@rikyrah: Thanks. Understood.
I’ll offer as a counterpoint, though, my best friend from high school who was an over-the-top Trump supporter. When he talked about the race, it was always negative about Hillary, not specifically about how great Trump was. His motto was “ABC – Anybody But Clinton”. The race was always about beating her, and if it had been Chuthlu running against her, he would have been a rabid Team Chuthulu supporter.
Yeah, he muttered some racist things to me at times when I last visited a year or so ago, but it wasn’t as big a part of his outlook as him hating her. And that hatred was, it seems to me, tied up with his recent divorce and other issues which all get rolled up into him not wanting a woman to be President – no matter who she was.
@MisterForkbeard: Not just discredit the Republican/Conservative ideology, but also credit the Democratic/Progressive side. Neither happens overnight, no matter how obvious it is to us, so we have to think big, but act in small steps continuously and strategically. The Republicans have been working this plan for 40 years. If Republicans have finally achieved a totally overreach point, that can make it easier in some ways to turn things around.
@Major Major Major Major: It’s a great tack to take. Everything he touches turns to shit. His concept of “data” is “some guy who tweeted at me” or “some idiot I happened to be playing golf with”.
I may have to get a t-shirt made w/ PBO’s parting words of advice: “Reality was a way of biting back”. So hey, let’s make sure it bites him HARD!
(SPEAKING OF WHICH: I see the “March for Life” and its brain-dead supporters are busy using all sorts of photos from other marches and events – like Obama’s 2009 inauguration – to pretend like they have a gazillion supporters down there on the Mall today. DON’T let them get away with it, folks!)
Taking names, compiling a list of enemies on Holocaust Remembrance Day.
PS At the supermarket I saw a pick up truck with a window sticker:
I support America and oppose Donald Trump.
No Drought No More
Yesterday I felt like I was back in grammar stool. A neighborhood guy told me that he’d voted for Trump, and I felt like kicking his ass. He admitted to some qualms about it after Trump’s behavior “of the past few days”. The past fucking “few days”! To my surprise, I heard myself saying that anyone that voted for Trump was Un-American, and called him cracked on top of that. I’ve never said anything remotely like that to anyone in my life. Although I came of age during the Civil Rights era and as the War in Vietnam escalated, and have tacked hard left ever since, I’ve always been more or less respectful in conversation with American birdbrains. It appears those days are over.
@Millard Filmore: I am in California, and I don’t keep specific track of my friends defencive plans because putting them online is dumb as shit. All I know is when the Klan tries to ride through them, they will put as many in the ground as they can.
@Millard Filmore: Don’t remind them about needing a good can opener…
@D58826: New rule: Any assets that a super-rich applicant forgets to include in a disclosure form are automatically forfeited to a fund that supports homeless shelters, food pantries, etc.
It’s a different world…many of these countries will be all too happy to focus on trading more with China, Japan, the rest of Asia and not having to deal with US crap policies and attitudes. You almost have to wonder if Steve Bannon’s going to end up costing this country more than the Iraq War did.
For 8 yearsjust about every GOP candidate – not just Trump – has said that they’d get rid of 3 branches of the government; Education, the EPA, and ” I forgot the other.” They all said they’d become protectionists, bring back torture, get rid of Planned Parenthood,get rid of the affordable care act, and on and one. It is what they all fucking ran on – and now we’re all so surprised and shocked that the GOP winner is trying to make good on their promises.
I want to know why nobody took them at all seriously. The media was too worried about balance to project what the country would look like if the GOP got its way. Well, now we know.
The local Democratic party held a workshop on running for office and becoming engaged in the political process. They moved it to a larger room due to high interest and even in the larger space they had to turn people away. In Indiana.
@Another Scott: I read an interesting article a while back about how the neo-Nazi movement some folks call the “alt-right” specifically uses sexism and “men’s rights” activism to lure white men into an overt white supremacy movement. It may have been on Vox.
@Thor Heyerdahl: Oh my god that’s harsh and yet so true…OUCH!
@No Drought No More: Good for you! What was his response?
Major Major Major Major
@Betty Cracker: I have personally seen this, not first-hand, but I’ve watched it happen to people online.
@Mike in NC:
It’s a shame he doesn’t read…hopefully Jake Tapper or someone will find a way to work it into his next on-screen bit!
(Talk about “woke” btw…having a blatant neo-Nazi perched on the president’s shoulder seems to have frosted Mr. Tapper to no small degree these days)
@MisterForkbeard: There’s also the unquantifiable amount of moral license that drove a lot of people to support something despicable like Drumpf because having Obama for two terms proved racism was dead and Americans were awesome in their openmindedness, and they were clearly amongst those good people.
@hovercraft: You probably won’t see this, but talking about that type of thing really pisses off the unhinged Trump supporters. This one dude started going after me comment after comment when I said, “Who is to say he could not jack up the price of a hotel room from one agent of a foreign government like he did when he was jacking up rents for charities to rent his spaces?” The “why don’t we give him a chance?” dude just lost his mind because he personally is honest and does not want the dude he voted for to be corrupt.
And they are not even focused on the waste of public dollars by cancelling the ACA campaign and stuff like that.
Everytime that happens, an angels gets its wings.
I hear where you are coming from, but that’s the thing with all of the economically anxious among us, they are never doing it because of race, there are always “reasons”, in this particular case it may be that gender was the bigger issue, but generally speaking if you do a little delving, race will rear it’s ugly head. They are definitely NOT RACISTS.
Because the pundits, especially the Beltway pundits, are all cozy with the politicians of both parties, and they think that obstructionism was just a power game. The conventional wisdom was that both parties promised the rubes, uh, I mean the voters, that they would do something, but then proceed on largely doing nothing while comfortably drawing salaries and banking pensions. And then if they ever lost an election (rare for an incumbent), they would just go an work for some private sector company and rake in the big bucks.
The pundits naturally assumed that Trump would plug into this comfortable do nothing system. There was even a recent pundit show where some “wise head” offered his opinion, based on nothing, that Trump would govern like a moderate.
But Trump, an angry, stupid, uninformed old man, saw that there were a bunch of people just like him, angry, stupid, old white men and women. And he saw that he could sweep the table by promising to give these people exactly what they wanted. This is why, for example, many of his supporters peed their pants and wept tears of joy when he announced that he was building the wall. No matter how stupid the idea is, finally a politician delivered on a crackpot right wing promise. And they are now confident that there is more to come.
@GrandJury: My god! Unfriended?!? I wish you a speedy recovery, and thank you for your service.
Right. Remind me what it was Bannon wanted to burn down?
All of them. Plus others that never happened.
Seldom is a thread won this deep into comments.
O. Felix Culpa
Yes. It’s both/and. At the same time, misogyny seems to be the less explored or mentioned factor. Not sure why.
I’m still here ;-)
He is not personally honest, because he is lying to himself. Willful blindness, is dishonest, at some level he is beginning to realize that the person he voted for is everything that he was warned about and refused to believe. This is not okay, I feel that people like him and the woman I wrote about are the worst, at least true believers believe the same shit as him, but these people don’t take the process seriously enough to get informed. They vote on a whim, and are now surprised and defensive about his actions. They need to believe that he can’t be as bad as everyone is making him out to be because they voted for him, and if he’s such a dangerous buffoon, then what does that say about the people who voted for him?
I’m in a very un charitable place right now I’m cutting these people no slack, they must own their gullibility.
This is exactly what AG nominee Jeff Sessions is, relative to white upper-middle class Alabama society. Having grown up in small-town North Carolina, I’ve known people like him my whole life – they are repelled by the aggressively overt racism of the white trash rabble, and face-to-face deal with blacks politely and respectfully and with warmth personally, but only in a compartmentalized fashion that recedes quickly within their own close social circles. You know what else they’re repelled by? Notions of sacrificing their dominant position within the social and political order to blacks, with perhaps a handful of scattered exceptions of blacks who have assimilated themselves culturally and politically to “pass” as honorary auxiliary members of white society (Tim Scott and Clarence Thomas being two good examples of this). But, as you said, you don’t have to scratch very far under the surface to find the “soft racist” underbelly of these folks in “polite” white southern upper-middle and upper-class society. They deny they are racists, but also want to preserve the right to wall off unwanted intrusions of blacks and other minorities into their circles of social, political, or cultural control. I guarantee that Jeff Sessions truly doesn’t understand why anyone could claim he’s racist, because what we plainly see as racist doesn’t seem that within the polite Alabama society he comes from, and their very conservative political orientation. I guarantee he sees no connection between the astoundingly greater prevalence of Confederate flags in people’s yards and on motor vehicle license plates than even in e.g. rural South Carolina, and the racism of his polite upper-crust Alabama society – nor even perhaps why those Confederate flags should be considered offensive to anyone – just expressions of heritage, after all.
Major Major Major Major
@efgoldman: That was a parable?
Adria McDowell (formerly LurkerExtraordinaire)
My girl child turned five today, and I hope in her teens years she’ll be as smart and politically aware as some of your girl children have turned out to be. I know I’ll be trying my hardest.
Well done, parents!
@efgoldman: Yeah, I know. But those things were there with Obama, also too. “Obama phones” and “free stuff to those people” and all the rest.
If ~ 80,000 people had voted differently in 3 states, the result would have been different.
Hillary won the popular vote by a decent margin, but not in the right places.
Turnout falling in Ohio and Wisconsin doesn’t fit with the picture that more people were outraged and wanted to let their racism out of the bag. It does fit with the picture that too many thought Hillary wasn’t worth turning out for.
Doing worse than Obama in blue-collar white areas seems to me to point to misogyny.
As I said, and others have pointed out well here, too, racism was definitely a factor. I’m not convinced that it was as big a factor as the misogyny, though. But it seems that it might be a regional thing that complicates the lessons as well.
@trollhattan: lol… I’ll be here all week!
Piggybacking on what Adria just said, I have a 20 month old daughter and she going to make me SO FRICKIN PROUD if she turns out anything like the teenagers described in this thread. I’ll do my best to get her there!
@O. Felix Culpa: I’ve noticed that too.
Mingobat f/k/a Karen in GA
Two weeks ago I was fighting with my husband because he didn’t want me to go to Washington. He was convinced it wasn’t worth it, and besides, some crackpot might take shots at the marchers. Yesterday he came home from work telling me how he called our state senators about Besty DeVos, and if there’s a tax day march in Atlanta, he’s going.
@Another Scott: My Lutheran Reverend Aunt is of that ilk. Minus the divorce, plus a protracted long and fervent verbal defense (on self-proclaimed moral and intellectually superior grounds) of being willing to go along with any outcome in order to vote as she did. The collateral damage such people are more than willing to inflict on other people in order to indulge their poorly thought out whims (she actually did defend her position as being more intellectual than ours because she “had been to college” — to two fellow graduates with post grad experience. She even asserted Hillary wasn’t a feminist, was only where she was because of her husband!). If not overtly racist, these people are certainly racist-enablers. They see the return to torture, the destruction of women’s rights, the facilitation of police brutality, the demonization of certain religions and refugees, the abandonment of international relationships, etc ect as all being acceptable side-effects of their getting their way, of their feeling good for a single moment in the ballet box. They are not good people in any active sense. They apparently didn’t mind other people being treated well so long as it was no skin off their noses. They maybe even know enough to not voice their biases, but their actions speak for their underlying ranking of issues. Sure, they won’t lead the lyching and maybe won’t push their way to the front of the photograph documenting it. But they are there in the background. They are fine with the message being sent, the behavior exhibited. Their actions demonstrate it.
and, like @hovercraft:, I’m not giving that woman any slack if she starts trying to pull any bullshit ingenue “I’ve been misled!” fluttering about, not after that demonstration. She went to the mat for that bastard and in defense of her decision. She will own them, and she will own the impact her revealed preferences made on my opinion of her ethical and intellectual grounding. She did this. She did this to herself.
@The Moar You Know: trump? Yeah, isn’t he president or something. I remember hearing something.
Major Major Major Major
You’re leaving out a very very important thing that we see in the data (link not handy unfortunately), which is that the only demographic that moved appreciably Trumpwards was white people without college degrees. It was massive and it was concentrated in the upper Midwest. They were not routine voters. Democratic turnout was only slightly below 2012 levels.
Seen the new Time cover?
Steve in the ATL
@Major Major Major Major: and voter suppression in those states
@Betty Cracker: I suspect that will improve the memory of the 1%.
@Another Scott: racism, misogyny, complacency. Who says that success has a thousand fathers and failure has none? I named three.
Racism or misogyny? The affront was to their sense of how things must be ordered, the established status hierarchy. Women and non-whites, non-heterosexuals, non-Christians, demmed foreigners, et alia are inherently inferior. Having too many of them, too quickly in positions of authority or influence, that cannot be borne.
@Another Scott: @Major Major Major Major:
I’m on my way out the door, so I can’t pull them up, but as M4X said the demographics shifted, a big part of the shift is the voter ID and other suppression effort the republicans put in place. Remember the Karl Rove meltdown in 2012 was because those tactics were supposed to have defeated Obama then, They didn’t work then, but they did this time. It was a long term project.
@Major Major Major Major: I read that article. There was some interesting stuff in it.
I completely agree with your analysis. Bad history teaching is all I can say.
Amanda Marcotte has been saying this for years and years.
Sensible progressives should NOT wade into the pool to try and save them. It is full of sharks. If they want to start to wade back out, maybe there will be a helping hand to teach them how to climb out of the pool. But I’m not fucking wading in there with them. besides they are going to be hard pressed to not drown in ankle deep water given the mixture of stoopid and apathetic they have displayed up to this point. If they can demonstrate enough self interest to get out of the damn sesspool, great. Otherwise, Darwin can take care of them.
also on such an auspicious day, he’s signing a ban on refugees, isn’t he.
@the Conster, la Citoyenne:
Might as well give up on 2020 if this is the resistance strategy.
@scav: A-fucking-men to everything you said. Well put, good show, co-signed and all of that.
@geg6: Don’t read her routinely, so the concept was new to me, but it rings true.
@O. Felix Culpa:
White people don’t want to be called racists.
Men who hate women don’t want to be called misogynists.
Also, for some people, it is hard to untease the Clinton hate from Hillary Clinton hate.
But long before the general election, I noted that people needed to look at the exit polls for the male vote. I also noted that Clinton would have to work hard to appeal to males. This should have intensified when Trump became the Republican candidate. In fact, I am surprised that Hillary did not use some of the (yeah, quasi racist) rootin tootin real white woman for real white men stuff that she used in Ohio and Pennsylvania against Obama in 2008.
In another post, I noted how much the male vote turned against her in Iowa, a state that went for Obama in 2008 and 2012.
Here is some of it.
Other states varied in the degree of white male vote swing. But since the state went for Obama in 2008 and 2012, one could reasonably ascribe some of the 2016 result to sexism, even if you wanted to soft pedal it as lack of confidence that a woman could be a strong president.
@Capri: Yep. One of the biggest failures of the media (other than blatant and repeated misconduct re: Hillary and the Emails!!!1!) has been an utter and steadfast refusal to actually examine the effects of Republican policies, or to even examine what they are.
As a result, people think Republicans are for “change” and “doing better”, but few of my non-politically-interested contacts seem to understand that Republicans really do want to take money away from public schools and give it to private schools, ruin social security, remove medicare, legislate morality and sexual behavior, and give away public assets to corporations. These aren’t even hidden desires or secondary effects, they’re literally massively unpopular things that Republicans have promised to do if they ever got power. And the media just shrugged on the whole thing and says Democrats are “fearmongering” whenever it’s brought up.
You don’t want a hay/straw fork. Tines are too small. Easy to penetrate but the hole needs to be bigger.
You don’t want a turnover fork. Tines are too large – to hard to penetrate.
Something inbetween is just right.
We need both kinds. Some are reachable with charm and some need to be figuratively smacked over the head. Better stated: Some can be led, some need to be dragged.
@Yoda Dog: I did my first facebook unfriending back in August. An old friend from college was talking about how Obama had Scalia murdered and the emails all proved it, but that the media just refused to cover it because they were all leftist communists. He tossed in some things about Obama hating white people and possibly being a muslim. I just lost it and told him he was a conspiracy theorist nutcase, and wondered how he’d gotten from being an evidence based engineer to someone who believes utter nonsense he’d heard from some dude on the internet. He started accusing me of all number of things.
I just told him he was plainly nuts, that several of his other friends who’d been commenting on his posts were of similar mind, and that if he ever wanted to apologize to me that would be lovely, but I wasn’t going to talk to him again until he regained his sanity. Unfriended him, haven’t regretted it. Mutual acquaintances say he’s no longer completely enthused for Trump but believes he’s going to MAGA for reasons he can’t actually articulate besides “fixing spending” and “putting other countries in their place”.
@Major Major Major Major:
In some states, as noted, white men also moved to Trump.
The odd thing is that in news stories, a chunk of people claimed that they did not vote in the last election, or had not voted for years, but were fired up by Trump. I don’t recall seeing much that looked for these “first time” or “renewed” voters and how much impact their votes had on the election.
I understand. That list of questions is mostly to point out that if things deteriorate that far, you have already lost the war.
@Jeffro: If you have a gun, why the need for a can opener?
@Betty Cracker: Excellent outreach! Understanding, willing to see it the way the other person does, patient.
@Betty Cracker: I need to know what this gif is from. Right now. :)
guys, my 72 year old, always-liberal-but-has-never-gone-to-a-protest-in-his-life dad marched in NYC on Saturday. I’m sure my stepmother had something to do with it, along with the fact that a bunch of their friends went, but that genuinely surprised me.
He didn’t even tell me he was going. He emailed me at one point to find out if *I* was going, and the email literally sounded like he was looking for something to do while my stepmom was out of the house marching – I responded with basically, “I’ll be at the march with my friends, maybe I’ll see you on Sunday!”. Then I saw pictures!
It really was/is something else/more.
Wow. I think the cartoon hits home. Damn!
And here Trump has small feet to match his small hands.
Because so many white people are what I said “subtle racists.” They will talk to folks who don’t look like them, they will even eat in the same restaurants at the same time. But when push comes to shove they don’t like anyone who doesn’t look like them. They might never burn a cross in your lawn but they sure as hell won’t call the cops if they saw it happen.
Here are the % of the last 3 elections.
D 52.9% R 45.7%
D 51.1% R 47.2%
D 48.2% R 46.1%
The Rs get about the same no matter the candidate. President Obama won because GWB was so bad and more Ds showed up. About 3-4% of the dem voters stayed home because they believed the bullshit and because of Sanders/Stein reinforcing that bullshit. Clinton was a perfectly fine Democratic president, all of the last 3 republican candidates were horrible but they were white males. Notice also that I didn’t say all the republicans are racists, I said that many whites are subtle racists. Some of them probably voted for President Obama because the R candidates were so horrible. This time we ran someone with a horrible public image, none of which is true. Even on this blog some had swallowed the bullshit. I wonder how that tastes now. It isn’t as easy as one thing is the problem, but to say that racism didn’t fit into even the last election would be a disaster to go with. Many people think that the last 8 yrs have been a disaster, the economy, the wars we still are fully committed to, the DJA falling so bad….. And none of that is true. But people think it’s true because they are racists, subtle or not and they weren’t going to vote for a continuation of the “mess.” It’s how I knew that Bush would be reelected because most presidents do not lose during a war, even if it is a bullshit one they started, even if it was for a different reason.
Is that why so much was in short supply during his time? He didn’t want people getting their hands on anything that could be used as a weapon? Self preservation?
I’m not sure they are. I emailed with my mother last week and she says she hardly ever watches Fox News anymore and now prefers Netflix. I’m semi-estranged from my family for non-political reasons, so I don’t know why my mom dumped Fox. I feel hope, though, for the future of news media in the country. If you haven’t already seen it, try Jen Senko’s “The Brainwashing of My Dad” on Netflix where she shows examples of people who have come back from the abyss of Fox News and hate radio.
I agree with you, but don’t let the pervasiveness of the misogyny cause you to minimize the racism.
When people cite Obama doing better than Clinton as evidence that racism was a minimal factor, they are missing the point of how racism drives the white supremacist voters of the midwest & Rust Belt. It isn’t the candidate’s ethnicity, it’s the fact that the Democratic Party is emphatically the party that cares about non-whites and that really pisses off a lot of whites. Sad & pathetic, I know, but there it is. Republicans since Reagan have been running the “Democrats only care about [insert racist epithet]!” campaign.
The effect of the racist messaging was greater this time because Trump was so open about it. And the cable shows normalized it. The number of times we heard “he says what I say” was greater than any time since Reagan. Brash, non-coded racist appeals.
My apolitical, but leans conservative mom today: ‘That Trump is just a liar, isn’t he? I mean, he just flat out lies.’
Apparently she paid zero attention during the campaign, but he’s got her attention now.
@debbie: I think I’ll go pick up a copy of that, thanks!
Calvin Candie: Gentleman, you had my curiosity, now you have my attention.
— Django Unchained
@Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes: nice! : )
@MisterForkbeard: Yes. This. My church-lady fundie co-worker is worried sick about the repeal of Obamacare (first at the state -ky – level, and then national), the privatization of Medicare, the fooling around with SS, etc. etc. Today I said – but U voted for it ! Her response – I didn’t think they would actually DO it. I intend to bring this up in some form every work day for the next 4 years.
@Betty Cracker: THIS. As much as misogyny no doubt played a role because of Hillary’s gender, I’ve seen far more conservative angst at BLM* and the notion that the world is just giving too much to those people.
*Of course BLM has the doubly stoking the Fear of a Black Planet among conservatives because not only does it fight for Black Liberation but it has several Black Women at the front and center of it’s protests and being leaders.
Great OP. Love seeing the political awareness growing on our side. I went to the first meeting of the Civilian Oversight Committee for the LA Sheriff’s Dept. yesterday. It was great to see so many young people getting involved in activism and holding their govt accountable. If any LA Juicers are interested, let me know and we can meet up at next months meeting.
@Ruckus: So I have brothers who are fond of Trump. I usually let them send me a Trump message, generally full of vague lies, and then I deconstruct it. Facts are wonderful things, and at least for now, a lot of them are available. Census. OMB for budget. BLS for employment, etc.
They don’t send me so many messages anymore.
I try to point out that all of these facts are available to each and every one of us. A little excel and a picture emerges. I am trying to get them to rely on facts and their brain rather than spoon-fed lies or legends. I am convinced that it will work, eventually. Won’t turn them into Democrats overnight but the seeds will grow…
Sorry, Sessions is not subtle. He is a vile racist. I’d bet he’s either a secret member or would be an open member if he wasn’t a politician.
My point was there are lots of people who are far more subtle than he is, they are not overt like Sessions is and he is overt, just not maniacally racist.
Here’s my list:
Subtle racist. Nice enough, you’ll never hear them say anything racist out loud, maybe even in private
Overt racist. Would probably not burn a cross in your yard but would support/work for laws that restrict based on race. (that’s Sessions for sure) If they saw a cross burning or a lynching would not call a cop.
Maniacal racist. Exactly who you think they are. Aryan nation, KKK, they would lynch someone, burn a cross in a yard, torch a house. Their whole life is based about being open racists.
So where does one go pitchfork shopping
Pretty apolitical, though the franchises are locally owned, so if an RWNJ owns your local ACE …
The parent company contributes a bit more to the party they think will be in power, but they don’t contribute much to anyone.
@Major Major Major Major:
Isn’t Home Depot supposed to have good labor practices? Or is it the other way around?
Other way ’round. It’s another Confederate-culture chain, like Walmart. Grind the employees; rabidly anti-union.
I spent a lot of time in Iowa last year.
I think it was sort of a special case: right-to-life is very big there, and with an open Supreme Court seat, they were single-issue focussed on electing an R. Their Big Chance had come around at last.
Betty have I ever told you how much I love you ;-)
J R in WV
That’s a little mean, but so very appropriate! And so many other things they will do that are so, so wrong!!!
@Major Major Major Major: This is really good. Thank you for sharing it, it was good to read. I agree 100%.
@Major Major Major Major:
That was me. It was like pulling teeth getting myself to vote for Hillary Clinton (which I did) and getting my lefty friends to accept it and vote for Hillary Clinton. I didn’t trust her on economic issues. I voted for her anyway and I consoled myself with the notion that she at least would absolutely not countenance sexism (for obvious reasons) and also that she would not countenance racism (based on the reactions I saw of some black posters). I figured that their say on those subjects counted better than mine, and I had to go along and believe because they believed.
So, I personally am like some of the people who went over to Trump, except that I voted for Hillary instead and did NOT go over to Trump. And the only reason I could spin it as being okay was because she was undoubtedly AGAINST racism and sexism, and that would have to do. And now when I talk about it, I’m immediately told that I’m a racist and sexist because I doubted her for any reason, or more accurately I’m told there is no possible reason I could have doubted her, unless it’s that I’m a racist and sexist deep down.
I’m not willing to give up on 2018, much less 2020.
Damned if I know what we’re all going to do, though. What I need right now is for Democrats to not devote all their attention to attacking… ‘Wilmer’. For FUCK’S SAKE guys. There is disarray enough.