I don’t know if I am the only one to notice this, but in my circle of close and extended friends, I was the most “political” of everyone. There were a few people here and there who were loudmouths like me, but for the most part, people didn’t chime in.
Now, though, it’s like there has been a massive awakening. People I never suspected as political are chiming in on FB posts, people I never imagined are posting their pictures of them at the women’s march and elsewhere with downright radical posters, and I’ve never quite seen anything like it.
This weekend, Holly of the aneurysm hosted a postcard writing party on Saturday, and about 15 people showed up and we wrote postcards to congresscritters. Well, I wrote one because I can barely write because my fingers hurt all the time and I type everything and also CROWDS so I left after about 20 minutes, but 15 out of 300 people in town is downright impressive.
That’s the crew dropping the mail off at the post office.
At any rate, I don’t think Trump and the rest of the nazi fuckers realize we are not going to roll over. And I think the elected Dems are starting to get some balls and follow the people.
elm
Repeating from prior thread, because it’s fucking important.
Stealing from LGM:
bmoak
WV’s own Manchin is the only Dem Senator so far not too condemn the Muslim ban,
shinobi42
I think what has made this fight harder for me is that It’s so hard to believe that we’re going to win. You know? How many stories are there of the time that a dictator tried to take over and was stymied by protests and the rule of law? Not many.
The warnings are making me crazy and I think my biggest concern is that without hope that the work we are doing will be effective, people will give up. (OK my second biggest worry after worrying that what we’re doing wont stop Trump from starting World War 3 and taking over.)
It DOES give me hope to see so many people involved. But I’m still afraid that no matter how many of us stand on his front lawn yelling No, the right will refuse to see us, conservatives will refuse to follow reason instead of party loyalty and democrats will cave to petty infighting.
Omnes Omnibus
@elm: Even encouraging people here to do things matters.
elm
@Omnes Omnibus: Absolutely. I do not mean to disparage such activism.
randy khan
@elm:
That was a really great summation by Eric Loomis. I stole it, too, for my Facebook page.
Another Scott
@shinobi42: All we can do is what we can do.
But we must do what we can.
We must make them beat us, not let them win by default.
It’s our country. Our parents and grandparents worked too hard to let these monsters destroy it.
Cheers,
Scott.
Omnes Omnibus
@shinobi42: If we don’t win, let’s make sure that history notes that we went down fighting.
randy khan
@shinobi42:
We are winning some things (even just Priebus pulling back on green card holders today), and we can win more. Every win makes it harder for Trump to sustain the illusion that he’s in charge. It matters. A lot.
elm
@efgoldman:
This leaves activism, even online activism, as valuable. Sniping and circular firing squads are not.
randy khan
Delta cancelled our flight. So we’re now driving to Tampa in the morning. Oh, joy. I will say that all of the Delta employees were very helpful, to the extent they could do anything with the computers down.
randy khan
@efgoldman:
I gave him credit. I’m sure the publicity will be well worth it for him.[/sarcasm]
Suzanne
@elm: I am on the couch sick today, so I didn’t attend the airport protest, but I did call Paul Ryan and John McCain.
Major Major Major Major
I’ve definitely noticed it too. Out here in San Francisco even most of the annoying out-there activists are actually doing something useful for once.
Omnes Omnibus
@Major Major Major Major: Try to rope them in.
guachi
I’m seeing the same thing, Mr. Cole. I’m the most political of my FB friends (a few are really close) and the activism is off the charts.
Current military friends.
Friends from college.
Friends from high school.
Friends from grade school.
None of these people are FB friends because of their political beliefs. I’m shocked (in a good way) by what I’ve seen. Multiple friends, who don’t know each other at all, sharing the same articles. Being informed. Staying engaged.
It’s awesome.
PJ
@shinobi42: Yelling on your lawn is probably not going to be sufficient. But just 28 years ago, people overthrew dictatorships in Eastern Europe, mostly peacefully. In the same year, the Chinese ran over peaceful protestors in Tiananmen Square and ended that movement. There are a lot of variables. But it can be done. The best thing in our favor right now is that the Republicans don’t really like Trump – they’ll tolerate him as long as he does what they want, but if he starts to interfere with their profits or their ability to be elected, they’ll get rid of him. And, if it comes down to violence, I have some faith that the military, for all its conservativeness, will support the Constitution over a petty moron.
lamh36
@aravosis
Cnn: US House and Senate republicans are pissed at Trump over the executive order.
Major Major Major Major
@Omnes Omnibus: I’ll see what I can do, but they tend to do the opposite of what people who supported that neoliberal whore in the primary suggest.
BillinGlendaleCA
LGF’s Charles Johnson noticed a minor change in the White House’s “Your Government” page of their website. The Judicial Branch seems to have disappeared, it was there Jan. 19 and now is gone.
dmsilev
@efgoldman:
True, but having a common enemy of the sort that Trump and his minions have become tends to concentrate the mind.
? Martin
Yep, same here. I would pay close attention to politics. Ms Martin a little here and there, I think mainly to participate in discussions with me. Son paid attention a bit, daughter hated it.
Now, wife and daughter ask me questions constantly. We talk probably an hour or more a day about it. They turn on Maddow or Hayes. They want to know everything, want to give more money, time, etc. Same with friends and neighbors. It’s like everyone just woke the fuck up.
lamh36
Um…no David, why is it up to the Democratic President…last time I looked there as also 2 living former Republican Presidents alive out there…maybe they could chime in…Trump is the Republican President aint’ he…
GregB
@Another Scott:
Here, here.
Bannon is trying to make this country break.
We must stand strong against his efforts.
lamh36
lamh36
@KarenAttiah 1h1 hour ago
More
Stunning video now from #DullesAirport. Rep. @BobbyScott, A FEDERAL official, is being denied access to Customs& Border Patrol #MuslimBan
amk
speaking of dems growing some spine.
? Martin
@lamh36: Deceptive, since that statement suggests that congressional leadership signed off on it, rather than just a few individuals advising.
I guess the buck stops anywhere but here with this WH.
Lizzy L
@lamh36: So the administration is now blaming the Congressional Republicans for the EO on immigration?
Cool.
To respond to John’s post: I know a lot of politically savvy people, so I’m definitely not the most active of my friends. But I’ve noticed the same thing: people paying attention. People waking up. Folks at the airports, folks calling their legislators, and everyone sharing information. I’m in blue blue CA, so I’m not surprised. But the energy is there, and it’s enormous.
amk
@? Martin: this is good. the prick peeing all over gopee is fine with me.
rikyrah
@elm:
Thanks for reposting this.
satby
@lamh36: there are 5 living former Presidents. It’s not all on Obama’s shoulders. All five should release statements condemning Trump.
Lizzy L
@lamh36: The federal judge will send in the US marshals. She’ll have to.
rikyrah
The Dems better understand that they better find their phucking spines.
bluehill
Protesting is fine, but still have to get votes. Not sure how the Obama Trump voters feel about the ban, but Trump had stated this very clearly in the primaries and in the general and they still voted for him. @RadioFreeTom – conservative on Twitter – makes an interesting point. Trump can claim – “I promised action against Muslims and I took it. Liberal judges and ISIS-loving marchers are attacking me for it. I’m your champion.” Even though this ban doesn’t make us safer and maybe even less safe, do these voters understand the nuance? Do they care? FSM-forbid any kind of attack because Bannon could get the green light to do just about anything he wanted.
Yarrow
@Suzanne: Did you have any luck getting through to them?
Oh, and this is a good suggestion I saw today:
I’ve seen people referring to Trump as VP Trump and Vice President Trump. Heh.
amk
@lamh36:
Obama in 2010
Don’t give the effing keys back to the effing corrupt fucksticks who drove your effing car into the effing ditch.
Obama in 2012
Don’t give the effing keys back to the effing corrupt fucksticks who drove your effing car into the effing ditch.
Obama in 2014
Don’t give the effing keys back to the effing corrupt fucksticks who drove your effing car into the effing ditch.
Obama in 2016
FFS, don’t give the fucking keys back to the fucking corrupt fucksticks who drove fucking your car into the fucking ditch.
…..
Obama in 2017
Fuck it all. I got no more fucks to give.
Mike E
@lamh36:
Thank you.
Lizzy L
A friend e-mailed me this morning from the east coast, listed organizations he had donated to, and asked me for suggestions for others.
rikyrah
The hardest part about all of this is trying to be honest,but not HONEST with Peanut. She asks me political questions all the time now. But, she is only 8.
? Martin
@amk: Oh, absolutely. The only way we survive this shit is to get Congressional republicans to stop toeing the Trump line and reclaim some measure of control over their party. Then we just end up with a complete shitshow, but at least it’s not some fucking maniac with legislative power, just a fucking maniac.
Aleta
@shinobi42: Perhaps, compared to the power they’re holding, we have a disability. Perhaps the country has a chronic illness — good days and bad. So OK then, let the victories come on some days. They’re still real. Many people live that way. Even if we’re not used to it, we can learn.
SiubhanDuinne
@Yarrow:
What do you suppose Bannon has on Dolt 45?
khead
Yeah, it’s great that *I* am not the only one being the political asshole on my FB feed this week.
We will see how long it lasts.
Major Major Major Major
@dmsilev: one of the reasons this last year and a half’s left-v-liberal donnybrook caught me so flat footed is because we’d been able to concentrate our fire on republicans from basically as soon as I was old enough to vote until… now. 2002-2016. The only other time were the 2008 primary and six months of bitching about the public option, I didn’t know the coalition was so rickety.
Feebog
I have mentioned from time to time that my eldest son, much to my dismay, is a full blown wingnut. My DIL has never discussed politics much, but I always assumed she more or less shared my son’s beliefs. But over the last couple days she has posted links to two stories that lead me to believe she has finally had it. Little steps, but steps none the less.
Yarrow
@BillinGlendaleCA:
I read it’s back now. So could be some snafu or…
I expect them to come after the Judiciary next. They want only compliant judges. These “activist judges” (have we heard that phrase being thrown around yet?) who are issuing stays on Trump’s EO will be hounded out of office. Or they’ll try. I hope the judges prepared. I think it’s going to get ugly.
Wag
An excellent call to arms from The Atlantic.
Yarrow
@SiubhanDuinne: Same stuff Russia has, I’d guess.
Cacti
I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it until the fight is won…
We’re dealing with fascists here. Fascists need to be fought, not hugged.
Timurid
Reposted from the thread below (that one died quickly, and this one is more specifically about political strategy):
amk
@Timurid: Amen. Fuck ‘the optics’.
scott (the other one)
@Yarrow: This is likely just ridiculously ridiculous optimism on my part…but Supreme Court justices have some pretty big damn egos–like, the size of a senator’s. And I suspect, without any proof whatsoever, that Chief Justice John Roberts is paying close attention and does not care for what he’s seeing. He’s the exact type of guy whose approval Trump has craved his entire life and has never gotten. Roberts could have killed the ACA and didn’t–wounded it seriously, sure, but very much chose not to kill it. I find it hard to believe that guy’s looking at this with anything but extreme distaste, because it makes his beloved Republican party look bad. If he didn’t want to kill Obamacare because of how it would look to history, you think he’s going to rubberstamp President Tinyhands’ reprehensible behavior in this regard?
BillinGlendaleCA
@Yarrow:
They don’t make changes on the production server, these things are staged on a test server.
Cacti
As Aldo Raine (Brad Pitt) said in Inglourious Basterds:
reality-based (the original, not the troll)
John – here is a great tweet you might want to retweet – since you have followers –
https://mobile.twitter.com/jpbrammer/status/825497231566503936
“I think the fuck not”. A banner to march under
dm
@Major Major Major Major: the deal is, they can do that stuff and still stay pure. A win-win situation.
NMgal
Relvant – New totals from ACLU (via USAToday):
Friggin awesome.
Redshift
A former coworker of mine said yesterday “my life has changed drastically in the last week.” She went to the march in San Francisco last week, and noted that the suggested URLs when she starts to type in her browser are all about politics. A week ago they were about movies and TV shows.
She went to the protest at SFO this afternoon and said afterward “that was the most intense thing I hve ever been a part of.”
So yeah, I see it. She’s not the only one.
Yarrow
@scott (the other one): They’ll go after the lower courts first.
@BillinGlendaleCA: Well, that’s how it’s supposed to work. But since we know Sean Spicer tweeted his password out twice, maybe Barron hasn’t got the new administration up to speed on The Cyber?
MobiusKlein
@Major Major Major Major:
At the Woman’s March in SF last Saturday (an aeon ago?), many of the regular annoying activists were there, banging their hobby horses. And they were outnumbered vastly.
No, the socialist party is not going to fix things. Can we focus, pleze?
Major Major Major Major
@BillinGlendaleCA: @Yarrow: exactly what I was going to say. I don’t have much faith in executive branch Web Dev practices.
Redshift
@Yarrow: Bannon and his ilk, I suspect, have an unrealistically high opinion of their abilities in this fight. I had the opportunity once to be in the courtroom of Judge Brinkema (the federal judge in Alexandria who issued one of they stays) during a terrorism trial, and she is not someone to fuck with. I suspect most federal judges are equally tough, and these Nazi wannabes are far from the worst people they’ve had to deal with.
Adria McDowell (formerly Lurker Extraordinaire
@guachi: none of my current military friends are saying anything. Two of them are field grades. I don’t expect them to say much, given UCMJ. Sooner or later, they’ll have to pick a side, though.
fuckwit
Yes yes yes. It’s amazing.
I’ve always been the annoing political nerd. Now everyone is on side with me.
In fact, I’m thrilled that more people who were apathetic a couple weeks ago are more engaged and active now than I was in my heyday.
This is what Democracy looks like.
Major Major Major Major
@MobiusKlein: well, they’re going to be there always no matter what. I was thinking of people I know personally.
Suzan
I too have been shocked by the people who have posted anti-Trump stuff on my Facebook page since 1-20. One woman tried to defend an anti-abortion stand and got shot down. We are a mouthy bunch now! I like it.
Peale
“In applying the provisions of the president’s executive order, I hereby deem the entry of lawful permanent residents to be in the national interest,” Kelly said in a statement. “Accordingly, absent the receipt of significant derogatory information indicating a serious threat to public safety and welfare, lawful permanent resident status will be a dispositive factor in our case-by-case determinations.”
I’m not really thrilled about this either. They are still claiming that the green card holders need to have a review before they can return home. So really, they are barred from returning home. There isn’t an indication that the review procedures are in place or will be for 90 days.
PhoenixRising
Yeah, something odd is happening. This morning one of my cousins woke me up with a bleg for…some leadership. Literally, I have the day off, tell me what will be helpful, I can’t do nothing.
Now here’s the key part: This cousin was comforting ME, after the election, because she knew how hard I’d worked and knew I would be upset. Like when your college foot ball team loses, the loss wasn’t hers because she’s not interested in sports. But she reached out to comfort me, in her mind, because politics was something she knows I’m involved in.
This morning at 5:47am PST (she doesn’t leave Ohio much so time zones, shmime zones), she wanted direction for how to get involved. As she said later, ‘I never thought I’d get interested in politics but I guess it got interested in me.’
hamletta
So angry. We had a presentation from our mission church in Costa Rica, with a presentation of the numbers of murders in Central America, and our church’s program to help these children fleeing utter lawlessness and violence.
And some woman piped up about “What about the native Americans, I’m native American, and Asian, and African American,” don’t do for those people, do for these.
Being Lutherans, we just sat there and did Lutheran Shade.
Yarrow
@Redshift: I hope you are right. I don’t know what the judges have faced in their courtrooms. I’m not sure they’ve faced down the U.S. Government’s two other branches in quite the same way they may have to now. Along with assistance from Russia. This is a new situation.
Redshift
@shinobi42: We have a much stronger civil society and economy than those places where dictators have taken over, and perhaps more important, Trump is really unpopular. I don’t kid myself this is going to be easy, but I’m not pessimistic any more.
EBT
@amk: Always punch the Nazi. Unless you have a baseball bat.
Aleta
@scott (the other one): I have hopes along these lines too. I don’t know which one, but I hope he has some defeats coming from an unexpected quarter.
Yarrow
@Peale: That’s a bunch of mealy-mouthed shit, just like Priebus said this morning. Sure, the green card holders can come in. Except they’ll all have to be evaluated on a case by case basis. Just to be sure, of course. It’s just more words to try to cover the bullshit.
Redshift
@PhoenixRising: Yeah. I have a good friend who in the past paid attention to politics but mostly as a spectator sport. Now she’s saying “I’m calling my representatives and I’m going to demonstrations when I can, is there anything more I can do?”
I’m very proud of her. She came to the march in DC last week and I pressed her to follow up, but it seemed like pulling teeth. But now she’s done everything I asked.
jl
@Redshift:
” Bannon and his ilk, I suspect, have an unrealistically high opinion of their abilities in this fight. ”
I think this is correct on several fronts. In his week, Trump greatly exceeded my fears and expectations in terms of pointless vicious stupidity.
I am sure the military is pleased with Trump’s Muslim ban stunt just as he tasks them with producing in 60 days a plan for defeating ISIS. And kicking out relatively sane and responsible military brass for a punk like Bannon on the NSC. And I am sure already some GOP Congresscritters thinking about dumping this toxic fool Trump for Pence. Hey. Steve, you ever read all the way through the Constitution? If everyone hates you, not much you can do. Maybe Trump’s personal security guard will hold everyone off?
If Iraq gets really pissed over the Muslim ban stunt, and executive can’t comply with court orders, a week in and already some grounds for Congress to dump this fool. Would still be a mess, but a more predictable one.
Lizzy L
@hamletta: Saw that on FB today, a conversation in which someone unknown to me but who I’m pretty sure is a 45 supporter made a comment about the homeless population in his city, and how we should be spending our time and energy helping them, instead of getting upset about some Iraqi interpreters.
I readied an answer (something along the lines of you think we can’t do both? WTF?) and then deleted it, because you have to pick your battles, and I’ve given up on trying to convince/convert everybody.
ETA: I’m willing to bet that the arguer spends very little time helping the homeless in his city…
? Martin
My theory here, btw, is that governance has two main pillars – ideology and competency. We’ve sort of taken the competency bit for granted, because getting to high office usually meant being tested at any number of lower offices, and because our system of non-partisan staffers and checks and balances usually means that an incompetent individual becomes pretty well insulated by the system. The ideology is simply maddening to some people, and they tune out, trusting that the system will somehow pick reasonably capable individuals.
I think what the people around me have picked up on is that Trump isn’t just incompetent, there’s something actively wrong with him. He’s dangerous and malicious. I recall working a girl scout cookie sales table many years ago when a guy came up to buy some, and every single adult stiffened up. We all gave each other that look, and after the guy left was chatted about how it was interesting that parents just ‘know’ when someone is dangerous to their kids. I think we’re having that moment now with Trump, in a way that they’ve never had with a politician before – in part because it’s apparent that the GOP isn’t going to stop him. That’s terrifying.
jl
@Lizzy L: Probably best to let any Trump voters who are salvageable to think things through on their own for a while. After this week, I assume any still committed Trump supporter I meet is a racist and a fascist and a moron.
jl
@? Martin: Being hideous amoral chickenshit con people, the GOP isn’t going to stop Trump until they sense trouble in the midterms, and the trump administration is too incompetent to get a reliable voter suppression program up and running in time. And at this rate, the voter suppression program will have to be VERY scalable. Then they might try to get rid of him in desperation. That could happen real fast.
EBT
@efgoldman: Spencer was recently lamenting the american left “Picking up European style anti-fascism” which he instantly clarified as “The kind with baseball bats”.
Cain
I’ve seen it too, my FB is blowing up.. people basically saying that they can’t keep quiet with this stuff going on. I’m doing it too, I’ve joined hackoregon.org, and I’m going ot put my skills to good use.
Dog Dawg Damn
I’ve also noticed unprecedented involvement from my nationwide friend circle on Facebook.
The other thing I’m noticing is the complete disconnect with my right-wing family. They have no idea the breadth and depth of antipathy towards Trump. They don’t get the moral indignation and outright revulsion we feel. They think it’ll all blow over and we’ll get used to it and go along to get along. I don’t think they quite understand that when you run as a nasty, buffoonish bigot, people are going to hate you no matter what you do.
I *have* noticed them being more quiet after the transition. Trump’s big mistake during the transition was failing to make any overtures to normalcy, respect, decency, or unity. That was undeniable, and I think a lot of nervous Trump voters noticed it.
bluehill
I’ve seen more FB friends vocalizing their dismay over how things are going. Unfortunately, they are not in FL, PA, OH, MI, WI etc. Another million votes from CA and NY still gives us the same morans running the government.
Dog Dawg Damn
If you haven’t seen the speech from the Stranger Things guy at the SAG awards, it’s something else:
https://twitter.com/Abid_ism/status/825902873133326336
Mnemosyne
@bluehill:
Yes and no — CA and NY still send some Republicans to the House. I’m going to see what I can do to try and flip CA-25 in 2018.
Flipping the House and Senate in 2018 will go a long way towards putting the brakes on this out-of-control train, even if the Republicans can’t be arsed to help stop it.
magurakurin
@? Martin:
If some people are just getting that sense now, then their kids must all be locked up in panel vans somewhere. I mean, geeesh. Donald fucking Trump has been a creepy and dangerous looking asshole for as far back as I can remember him and that is probably some where around 1980. The folks who are just now having their Spidey Senses tingling need to go in for a tune up.
MomSense
@Dog Dawg Damn:
Awesome! I loved that series, too.
jl
Scary that something does seem to be genuinely wrong with Trump. Moron certainly one thing. Ignorant old white bigot who goes apeshit when a fool like O’Reilly blathers BS on Fox.
Effin’ Trump. He could have let sane and competent people like Mattis, Kelly and Tillerson run things, and put Bannon and Flynn to plotting with competent knowledgeable hatchet people, henchmen and operatives to subvert the country in due time. GOP Congress would be down with that plan. But no…that would be too… too.. competent and sane.
Whatever else is wrong with Trump, he is a deeply deeply ignorant stupid fool right down to the marrow of his bones. I just hope he is too damn stupid and incompetent to pull off anything catastrophic.
? Martin
@jl:
He has a textbook personality disorder. It’s not curable, it’s barely treatable, particularly at his age. He’s simply not capable of separating himself from the office he commands.
jl
I just heard news reports on radio that GOP and Dem Congresscritters still getting blown off by DHS personnel as they try to do constituent services and check compliance with court orders at airports around the country.
Everyone is going to hate and fear Trump’s guts after this. Even GOP Congressional slimeballs, at least the ones with international airports in their districts.
Aleta
I’m still waiting for the media to do those self-exam stories they usually do for fun, about why they covered the election like a pro wrestling match.
James Powell
@PJ:
No, the best thing in our favor right now is that the American people don’t really like Trump.
? Martin
Remember, this is all about jobs.
cckids
@reality-based (the original, not the troll):
Amen. One of my favorite signs from last weeks march said “First they came for the Muslims, and we said “NOT THIS TIME, MOTHERFUCKERS”.
Apparently DT & co weren’t listening. Time to turn up the volume.
jl
@? Martin: I’ve read that solar power now cheaper for start-up generating facilities than fossil fuels in emerging economies . I wonder when will be the case for developed high income economies as well.
Calming Influence
@bluehill: Yeah yeah yeah, votes! votes! votes! Of course everyone should vote. But at the national level votes are protests that happen every 2 years. Should we wait until 2018 to express our concern?
Aleta
@jl:
Also scary: what we see is only the part that isn’t hidden from us.
Dog Dawg Damn
So Tulsi Gabbard has quite a following. Bet she makes a run in 2020. God help us.
? Martin
Quebec attack being treated as an act of terrorism. Nice to see white supremacy being treated that way.
mai naem mobile
@Dog Dawg Damn: wonder if Lumpy will ask her for her long form birth certificate since she was born in the exotic country of Hawaii.
No One You Know
I’m hoping to wear either kitty ears or a hijab on my next march. Maybe both, if that isn’t offensive.
? Martin
@jl: It already is. Solar in CA is half the cost to deploy as coal. The reason it isn’t touted is that in the US and many other developed nations, we don’t need to add capacity. We’re investing more in conservation to stretch out existing capital investments and its therefore cheaper to convert an existing fossil fuel plant to a more efficient process than to abandon it and build out solar.
In emerging markets they need to add capacity, so it makes more sense to build out with solar. CA is an exception because we tax carbon here, and because we have other policies for air quality and such that make it cost effective to abandon existing plants.
jl
@? Martin: You got links for that? Much appreciated if you could post them.
I’m in an optimistic mood tonight and am assuming we will all survive Trump to enjoy the new energy future.
Calming Influence
@Calming Influence: I realize now my reply to bluehill seems a little over the top – I apologize, but I hate seeing in-the-street protest dismissed as sort of “OK in its own little way…”. In-the-street protests gave us the tea party. I lived in Rome in the 70s, and Italians took to the streets at the drop of a hat, possibly because they had experienced Mussolini. You get someone to take to the streets, and I promise you they’re also going to vote.
Redshift
@jl: I know that my congressman (Don Beyer) and two neighboring ones got blown off demanding that the court orders be complied with. A poor airport cop got stuck with telling them that he couldn’t take them to the CPB chief until he decided if he would meet with them.
The AG of Virginia has also said he hads made a formal request for information about their compliance with the court order.
? Martin
@jl: Here’s a cost analysis, unsubsidized, leveled. That means it includes downstream environmental costs that may be left out of decision making analysis by energy companies, and which will therefore vary by state depending on regulatory structure. CA pushes a lot more of those costs back to the providers.
The report also has comparisons for subsidized, for fuel prices fluctuations, carbon abatement, etc.
So CA is a best case example. The carbon abatement is somewhat baked into the consumer prices, we’re one of the best possible locations for solar (low cloud cover, cheap land in the desert), and we have little coal nearby, so fuel costs there would be fairly high. So look at the low-end for PV costs and the higher end for coal/gas. Other states will be the reverse, with PV at the high end and fossil at the low. But even in that case, most states only break even via subsidies or ignoring secondary costs.
Dog Dawg Damn
@Calming Influence: In the street protests gave us AIDS meds.
Calming Influence
@Dog Dawg Damn: Yup. It works. And there isn’t a politician alive that’s not askeared of torches and pitchforks.
jl
@? Martin: thanks
bluehill
@Calming Influence: I don’t know. I think the challenge with the Trump administration is that the violations of the governing norms and worse the Constitution are coming so quickly that you would have reason to protest every day until the mid-terms. These are understandable reactions to terrible policies, but will the protests help win votes in the mid-terms in red states and purplish states? I hope so, but I don’t know.
Here’s a article that doesn’t answer the question but provides some perspective.
Gretchen
@dmsilev: Robert Reich is up today saying we need to have a pure progressive party. Because splitting the Dems between Clinton supporters and Berniebots worked so well.
Redshift
@bluehill: There are protests in Boise. There are protests in Alabama. This is not just in reliably blue states.
jl
@bluehill: If the House GOP slimeballs start to wig out over midterms, several sections of the articles of impeachment are ready to write themselves. After one, just one, count ’em, one lousy week. That will result in either a trial, or legislation that drastically reduces the power of the asshole currently holding the office.
Lot of demonstrations and letters to Congress will help in that effort.
frosty
We’re getting more politcal … except my wife. She worked for Obama and for Hillary but she’s completely sworn off the news since the election. She doesn’t want to hear my jokes, even, it’s all too much of a shitshow.
frosty
@shinobi42:
The other places didn’t have 240 years of citizens who are used to the rule of law and representative democracy who have a gut instinct of “Hey, you can’t do that!”.
We’ll see if it’s enough.
ETA: Stat’s rights, too. The feds don’t run elections, they don’t do a lot of stuff that they do in other countries. Who knew we’d be in favor of it?
jl
@frosty: When people in the US threaten to take over the streets and keep them, engage in mass civil disobedience, riot, and if worse comes to worse, run around the countryside shooting and blowing up stuff, need to take it seriously because it has happened many times in the nation’s past. I listed things in order of increasingly dangerous extremity. I sincerely hope things don’t go that far. Parts of the US were in an informal civil war in the late 19th century for years at a time over union strife for example.
Calming Influence
@bluehill: Thanks for replying. My feeling, having lived overseas, is we are an unusually apolitical nation. Anything that gets us more focussed on how our government is being run is likely to be a net positive, and taking to the streets does get people talking about the issues, even if they’re not the ones protesting. Other countries, other histories, but for us it’s been a longer run of democracy than anywhere else. And I’m desperately hoping that the political awakening John and the rest of us are seeing is indeed the true spirit of America getting up off the couch and saying emphatically “I think the fuck not!”
sukabi
@efgoldman: now to be fair to the nazifucksticks, they have been soliciting “suggestions” on what they should be doing from their odious “fans”…putting those suggestions in an executive order can’t possibly be blamed on them.
rikyrah
@Dog Dawg Damn:
What?
As a Republican?
Cause, I know that you don’t mean as a Democrat.
opiejeanne
@Lizzy L: I saw something similar with Kal Penn’s Twitter account that had raised about $500k last time I looked. Some guy posted that there was a kid down the street going through the garbage looking for something to eat, and that Kal didn’t care about that kid.
I suggested the idiot take the kid a sandwich since he was there.
There were others, asking why Penn doesn’t do something for Hindu refugees. I was tempted to ask about that because I am unaware of Hindu refugees.
Applejinx
@Gretchen: It is perfectly safe to say that because the Overton window’s been blown the fuck out. Now it’s just ‘do we demand racial/gender justice, or do we demand our people not starve in the streets? FUCK IT, BOTH’.
All we wanted, ALL we wanted was for Dems to have a spine and not be triangulating fucks maintaining business as usual in Washington as the country slowly croaked.
That was last year. Business as usual is forever dead now. The Trumpsters killed it, not us. There’s no reason either to pretend we can go back to incrementalism and triangulation, or to hold back on our own vision for the country. Looks like things can change FAST. Bring it.
We’re going to need sensible implementers, but first we need to grab the fucking reins. Everybody’s a purity pony now, marching in the streets with signs. There’s no point even talking that way in 2017, we’re all in the same meatgrinder.
First the counter-revolution, THEN we bring in the wonks to implement things and know what the fuck they’re doing. Because that incrementalism got us here and now it’s literally impossible and nobody wants any.
Nashville_fan
@shinobi42: Of course I am worried about that too, but simply put, failure is not an option. There are still more of us than there are of them. And we will prevail. They want us to wonder, but the simple truth is Trump/Putin cannot and will not rule this country without the consent of the people.
If this “president” will not follow the Constitution and rulings from the judicial branch, he will be removed from office, one way or the other. And it will not take 4 years to happen . . . that is a fact. We are just going to have to do some things that we thought we would never have to do . . . but you know what . . . we are ready. Never doubt that.
We have everything we need to prevail and we will probably be better off in the long run because we have been playing this “alternative fact” game for years in this country, and now we have reaped what was sown. . . which is great, because every stalk of stupid will be uprooted and destroyed. Finally. Because we don’t have the luxury of stupid anymore.
lol chikinburd
@Applejinx:
That’s one of the more inane post-hoc-ergo-propter-hoc assertions I’ve heard in the last month, and that’s saying something. Y’know, I’m kind of thinking there were some other factors involved with us getting here.