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You are here: Home / Civil Rights / LGBTQ Rights / Gay Rights are Human Rights / And Now for the Gay Bashing

And Now for the Gay Bashing

by John Cole|  January 30, 20176:26 pm| 197 Comments

This post is in: Gay Rights are Human Rights, Hail to the Hairpiece

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I'm told reliably there is a draft Executive order on LGBT issues including adoption. Details and timing unclear.

— Josh Rogin (@joshrogin) January 30, 2017

Follow up: Admin source says LGBT EO could affect federal employee benefits & protections & adoption agencies that receive federal funding

— Josh Rogin (@joshrogin) January 30, 2017

More: EO could allow fed employees to refuse to serve LGBT based on belief marriage is b/t man & woman or gender is immutable from birth

— Josh Rogin (@joshrogin) January 30, 2017

We’ll see. Part of me is wondering if this is a mole hunt inside the WH and this leak is just a chance for Bannon to find the source of leaks, because this would be so unpopular and cause such a shitstorm that it would be mind blowing. Not to mention, Trump was not openly an anti-gay bigot, not that his word amounts to anything.

Then again, another theory is that Trump really does have Alzheimers or mental issues and the Pence/Sessions bible thumper section is just pushing as much through as they can while Trump is still in office.

Fuck these motherfuckers either way.

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Reader Interactions

197Comments

  1. 1.

    RoonieRoo

    January 30, 2017 at 6:28 pm

    I vote for mole hunt because the alternative is just too horrible.

  2. 2.

    Corner Stone

    January 30, 2017 at 6:30 pm

    I am surprised they did not wait until next Friday to float this or announce this EO. They want everyone loud and tired and frazzled. If the courts don’t straight up shut it down then there will be no time for regular people to recharge and figure out exactly what the hell is going on.

  3. 3.

    randy khan

    January 30, 2017 at 6:30 pm

    Is there some impression inside the White House that an Executive Order can override the 14th Amendment?

  4. 4.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    January 30, 2017 at 6:31 pm

    Mary Emily O’Hara @MaryEmilyOHara
    BREAKING: White House Deputy Press Secretary Stephanie Grisham tells me an executive order on LGBT policy “isn’t the plan at this time.”

    Jesse Berney ‏@ esseberney 16m16 minutes ago
    They floated, they got slapped, and for now they’re backing down.

    Fight everything all the time.

  5. 5.

    trollhattan

    January 30, 2017 at 6:31 pm

    Looks like he tossed this one to Pence. “Here you go li’l Mike. Now go get your shine box.”

  6. 6.

    Major Major Major Major

    January 30, 2017 at 6:32 pm

    Trump ran on this. I don’t know why nobody noticed. He said he wanted a federal version of the Indiana law. This is the EO version of that.

  7. 7.

    Corner Stone

    January 30, 2017 at 6:32 pm

    Whoever the SCOTUS pick is, it is guaranteed to be a truly awful human being. So that would all by itself take up a few days of burn.
    Creating chaos and confusion may be the goal but they are even incompetent at pacing that out to their advantage.
    May I say, btw, I love how Trump and his team just ladle the sauce of “opposition party” all over the media.

  8. 8.

    Brachiator

    January 30, 2017 at 6:33 pm

    I was listening to a political podcast last night which predicted that Trump would be very gay friendly, to make sure that his other policies would be accepted more easily.

    Oh, well.

  9. 9.

    TriassicSands

    January 30, 2017 at 6:34 pm

    …the Pence/Sessions bible thumper section is just pushing as much through as they can while Trump is still in office.

    But if Trump isn’t in office Pence is so I don’t see any need to rush.

  10. 10.

    randy khan

    January 30, 2017 at 6:35 pm

    Also, it’s worth noting that D.C. has more LGBT people per capita than any state (probably not any other city); there are roughly 60,000 LGBT people in D.C., and tens of thousands more in the nearby suburbs. They will not react well.

    Okay, they probably will react very well – maybe a dance party on Pennsylvania Avenue like the one outside Mike Pence’s house before the inauguration? – but they will not take it lying down.

  11. 11.

    MazeDancer

    January 30, 2017 at 6:36 pm

    Dep Press Secretary Stephanie Grisham: executive order on LGBT policy “isn’t the plan at this time.”

  12. 12.

    TriassicSands

    January 30, 2017 at 6:36 pm

    @randy khan:

    There’s a conviction inside Trump’s diseased head that executive orders can “trump” the Constitution. And can’t he fire anyone he wants anytime he wants? What good is being president if you don’t have absolute power?

  13. 13.

    Woodrow/asim

    January 30, 2017 at 6:36 pm

    I can buy it. I don’t buy into the “this is all a cunning plot” theory — I think Trump just thinks “I can do all this stuff ASAP” and is getting people moving to make it happen, norms and the rule of law be damned. Red meat for his followers, who are the only people he really cares about, opinion-wise.

    Bannon is glomming on to cause all the chaos he can, but I don’t think he’s directly at the wheel (yet) — I mean, does he really need to be? He’s getting damn near everything he’s ever wanted!

    Josh over at TPM said it right in the campaign; the best way to predict Trump is to ask yourself “what’s the stupidest way I can make X happen?”, then assume he’ll do it. Just as this horrific EO was the most ham-fisted way to halt any people coming in, so too will he sign something that goes way overboard and raises even more ire while getting him even more enemies.

    [EDIT: If the report that they won’t do it is true, I’m really, really happy about that. We got enough hell on our hands.]

  14. 14.

    Dog Dawg Damn

    January 30, 2017 at 6:37 pm

    Did anyone see that pathetic press conference?

    Nancy Pelosi needs to be taken aside and told to keep quiet. She completely squandered the opportunity to get our message out with a geriatric mic check and then blathering about “Republic and Democratic colleagues”. (Pro-Tip: No one cares about Congress or comity or colleagues or where you are from at all.)

    I really wish Pelosi would be primaried and replaced by someone less feckless and more competent. She’s squatting in a safe seat and completely talentless.

  15. 15.

    Major Major Major Major

    January 30, 2017 at 6:38 pm

    @Woodrow/asim: meanwhile thousands (at least) of people suffer needlessly with each order. It was stupid during the campaign. It’s not any more, it’s evil now.

  16. 16.

    Baud

    January 30, 2017 at 6:39 pm

    Emails.

  17. 17.

    p.a.

    January 30, 2017 at 6:39 pm

    They’re gonna have to create a bubble of adamantium around tRump to shield him from the fact that he is the most loathed man on the planet. He will tweet himself to death otherwise. NGL. Hoping the end is appropos for Bansputin.

  18. 18.

    Timurid

    January 30, 2017 at 6:40 pm

    Speaking of sexuality (kind of)… even with all of the colorful terms out there for masturbation (‘choking the chicken’ ‘beating the bishop’ etc.), there’s always room for another. I propose ‘punching the Nazi.’

  19. 19.

    Baud

    January 30, 2017 at 6:40 pm

    @p.a.: Good. My desire is that he be the most reviled American since Benedict Arnold.

  20. 20.

    Baud

    January 30, 2017 at 6:41 pm

    @Dog Dawg Damn: Pelosi has never been good at media. She’s excellent at running the caucus.

  21. 21.

    trollhattan

    January 30, 2017 at 6:41 pm

    @Dog Dawg Damn:
    Pelosi has never been good in front of a camera but she’s invaluable herding the House Dem kitty collective, so be careful what you ask for. DiFi OTOH needs to go, like, yesterday.

    ETA or what Baud said.

  22. 22.

    Immanentize

    January 30, 2017 at 6:41 pm

    @randy khan: agreed. Completely unconstitutional.

  23. 23.

    trollhattan

    January 30, 2017 at 6:42 pm

    @Timurid: “Sieg helllllo!”

  24. 24.

    oldster

    January 30, 2017 at 6:42 pm

    Thanks, Peter Thiel, you racist glibertarian vampire.
    Thanks for telling us how great Trump will be for gay people.

    I hope that when Pope Pence gets to sign his own executive orders, you’ll be one of the first who is forced to wear a pink triangle.

  25. 25.

    MomSense

    January 30, 2017 at 6:43 pm

    It could just be an old fashioned trial balloon. The Apricot Assmouth did run on this though so who the hell knows.

  26. 26.

    Forked Tongue

    January 30, 2017 at 6:43 pm

    For those wrestling with whether the Rogue POTUS twitter is real, they did post a few hours ago that something LGBTQ-related was in the pipeline—uh, does that tell us anything or no?

  27. 27.

    mai naem mobile

    January 30, 2017 at 6:43 pm

    I can’t believe this one is legal and Peter Motherfucking Thiel can go Kapo himself. Self hating pig.

  28. 28.

    Jeffro

    January 30, 2017 at 6:43 pm

    I think this is their “firehose” at work – just keep pouring it on, keep people tied up fighting a dozen offensive things a day, heck, keep ’em busy at demonstrations and calling Congress. It’ll work for a while, but

    1) Eventually, that CI report is gonna drop…and many people in the Trumpov camp if not Trumpov himself will be implicated. And then it’s going to get nasty on the R side.

    2) The 2018 elections will, eventually, arrive. And if Dems keep it up with Indivisible and Swing Left and marches and calls…well, Trumpov’s policies are not theoretical anymore, and Rs’ voting records on those policies will not sit well with about oh 73% of the public.

    So keep it up with the firehose of falsehood, Herr Bannon. We’ll catch up with you in just a lil’ bit…

  29. 29.

    debbie

    January 30, 2017 at 6:44 pm

    Trump doesn’t seem to need Congress at all.

  30. 30.

    Dog Dawg Damn

    January 30, 2017 at 6:44 pm

    @trollhattan: Okay. Then someone let her know she’s not a star quarterback.

    The Dems breaking out singing to delay during the mic check was so demoralizing. They need to put Cory Booker, Jan Schakowski, Elizabeth Warren, John Lewis, and any others front & center.

    We have the moral high ground on this. This is a fight to the death, and loyalty to geriatric incumbents in safe seats isn’t going to help much.

  31. 31.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    January 30, 2017 at 6:44 pm

    There’s apparently something protestwise with Dem House members on the SCOTUS steps. John Yarmuth sent a message.

  32. 32.

    Baud

    January 30, 2017 at 6:44 pm

    BTW, I hear a lot of people saying that this is worse that they excepted. It is not worse than I expected. Trump lies, but he did not hide who he was during the campaign. If you want to know why I have zero tolerance for non-Hillary voters, this is why.

  33. 33.

    mai naem mobile

    January 30, 2017 at 6:45 pm

    Oh, and I forgot thanks Jim Motherfucking Comey. Straight shooter my ass.

  34. 34.

    Immanentize

    January 30, 2017 at 6:45 pm

    @Baud: and fundraising

  35. 35.

    Shalimar

    January 30, 2017 at 6:46 pm

    @oldster: If the message is for Trump, I would go with “Peter Thiel is the great protector of the American LGBT community. You will never be able to discriminate against us while he is alive and free.”

  36. 36.

    Shana

    January 30, 2017 at 6:47 pm

    @randy khan: Probably. They don’t seem to have a good handle on how to do anything, or what they’re able to do, see Merkel telling tRump about international law re refugees.

  37. 37.

    Peale

    January 30, 2017 at 6:47 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: or they sent it back to see if it couldn’t be tweaked to hurt more people.

  38. 38.

    Corner Stone

    January 30, 2017 at 6:47 pm

    This Stephen Miller motherfucker. What a piece of shit/work.

  39. 39.

    Oatler.

    January 30, 2017 at 6:48 pm

    “He grinned at her from his chair, a long, wolfish conspirator’s grin which almost made her laugh. Hawksquill turned to the window, thinking Why him? Why him of all people? And thought: if the mice in a household were suddenly given a vote or say in its management, whom would they elect housekeeper?”
    -John Crowley, Little Big

  40. 40.

    Couldn't Stand the Weather

    January 30, 2017 at 6:48 pm

    Maybe Pence, Bannon and Priebus are this hateful and stupid.
    Not that farfetched.

    We’ll see how well Schumer, Pelosi and the rest hold up over the next week or so (they of the spaghetti spines).

  41. 41.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    January 30, 2017 at 6:48 pm

    I’m upping the crowd estimate – two daughters can’t even reach the plaza. Maybe 10000 to 20000 here in the cold in Louisville.

  42. 42.

    smintheus

    January 30, 2017 at 6:48 pm

    How long is Bannon for this world? He looks like a real mess in pics. I’m wondering whether he thinks he has maybe 6 months at most to ram through every single noxious policy he can, so rolling them out strategically is not an option.

  43. 43.

    debbie

    January 30, 2017 at 6:49 pm

    O/T, but very important. Any takers?

  44. 44.

    p.a.

    January 30, 2017 at 6:49 pm

    Soon to come: ACLU, SPLC, BLM listed as terrorist orgs.

  45. 45.

    hovercraft

    January 30, 2017 at 6:49 pm

    because this would be so unpopular and cause such a shitstorm that it would be mind blowing.

    At this point, I think we need to assume that nothing is too insane for these people. They live in a closed loop, where justifying the exclusion of a five year old from entering the country is normal. The only thing I’m willing to say is actually beyond these is just starting a nuclear war for shits and giggles, everything else, is totally possible. They won, everyone else can suck it, if you don’t like it tough.

  46. 46.

    encephalopath

    January 30, 2017 at 6:49 pm

    “An ERECTION!?! The thought of me DEAD gives you an ERECTION?”

    “No! Just half of one. The other half would have really missed you. I mean not… oh.”

  47. 47.

    MazeDancer

    January 30, 2017 at 6:49 pm

    Acting Attorney General Sally Yates says DOJ not fighting Muslim Ban. She thinks in unlawful and unconstitutional. Here’s NY Times Article.

    Wonder if DOJ will change that position after the AG is not an Obama appointee?

  48. 48.

    debbie

    January 30, 2017 at 6:50 pm

    @Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes:

    That turnout’s very impressive for Kentuckistan!

  49. 49.

    john fremont

    January 30, 2017 at 6:52 pm

    @Baud: This!

  50. 50.

    (((CassandraLeo)))

    January 30, 2017 at 6:52 pm

    @mai naem mobile: This is simply unfair to the kapos, who were mostly tragic figures doing what they felt was necessary to save themselves/their family members. My Yiddish and German aren’t good enough to come up with equivalent terms for queer people, but he would better be described as the equivalent of a “shanda fur die goyim” or the Judenräte – the Jews who chose which of their fellow ghetto members would be sent to the camps, and ultimately got sent to the camps themselves (although, to be fair, some of them did what they could to resist the Nazis and save as many of their fellow Jews as possible, so this wasn’t a universal case. Also note that “Rat” is a false cognate and actually means “council” in German).

  51. 51.

    Jeffro

    January 30, 2017 at 6:52 pm

    @MazeDancer: I saw that…good for her! Cue RWNJ sllme machine in 3, 2, 1, but still.

    Between that and the Obama statement earlier today, I’d say we’re about 1 more O-event away from a Twitler Tweetstorm about the former prez trying to ‘overthrow’ (nay, USURP!) him…I’m not sure Trumpov wants people making that comparison…

  52. 52.

    Mike in NC

    January 30, 2017 at 6:54 pm

    The plan is to undo everything Obama managed to accomplish between 2008-2016, and Trump’s troglodyte supporters are completely onboard to Make America Hate Again.

  53. 53.

    Corner Stone

    January 30, 2017 at 6:54 pm

    I hate Greta Van Sustern so fucking much right now. Fuck MSNBC and FUCK MADDOW.

  54. 54.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    January 30, 2017 at 6:55 pm

    @Baud: My father used to say that Reagan was a Rohrsach (sp?) test, if you (they) wanted to see a libertarian, a Christian, a Warrior… It’s even more the case with Trump, since he was on almost every side of every issue during the campaign, and over the last twenty years has been on every side, they could justify a vote for him no matter what they wanted. And gay rights was one dog whistle he didn’t blow all that much, apart from his choice of Pence and talking about a Scalia-like judge, and most people don’t get into politics enough to get what those meant/mean

  55. 55.

    dogwood

    January 30, 2017 at 6:55 pm

    @trollhattan:
    I’ve got a soft spot for DiFi. During the gun control debate she shut Ted Cruz up like nobody’s business.

  56. 56.

    Baud

    January 30, 2017 at 6:56 pm

    @Baud: excepted = expected.

  57. 57.

    MazeDancer

    January 30, 2017 at 6:56 pm

    All the Dem Senators and Congress Reps were out in the cold staging a protest on the SCOUTS steps against the Muslim Ban.

    Sound system has malfunctioned but they just yelled when needed.

    If they’ll shiver out there, some hope they’ll keep up the fight.

  58. 58.

    bemused

    January 30, 2017 at 6:56 pm

    @TriassicSands:

    According to Robert Reich, an anon ex Republican Rep told him GOP hopes to put all the blame on Rump and team.

  59. 59.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    January 30, 2017 at 6:57 pm

    @debbie:

    This is a blue blue blue city in a shithole state.

    We’re afraid of being Austinized in 2020 redistricting, Kentucky sucks us dry of money while hating us – they want to wipe out everything good here.

  60. 60.

    Baud

    January 30, 2017 at 6:59 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: They do the same thing with Dems, except they project whatever negative stuff they want onto Dem candidates.

  61. 61.

    Major Major Major Major

    January 30, 2017 at 7:00 pm

    @oldster: I’ve decided that ‘Cohn’ is the gay version of ‘kapo’. Fuck Thiel, that Cohn.

  62. 62.

    Corner Stone

    January 30, 2017 at 7:00 pm

    Anyone who has social media accounts owe it to themselves to watch the GvS segment tonight with Stephen Miller and then ask Maddow if she thinks we should still give Greta a chance.
    That was one of the worst propagandist, lying, unfact checked, no push back, RWNJ stamp on alt reality I have ever seen on MSNBC. And that is including a lot of Moaning Joe segments.

  63. 63.

    dogwood

    January 30, 2017 at 7:03 pm

    @Corner Stone:
    The entire NBC operation is tied to Trump. The Today Show gave up an hour to Megyn Kelly.

  64. 64.

    Corner Stone

    January 30, 2017 at 7:03 pm

    Martin Van Urine ‏@Noneya_Mindyers 8m8 minutes ago

    Watching MSNBC have @greta Van Susteren allow a Neo-Nazi spout off bigotry without any pushback on facts or law is so demoralizing.

  65. 65.

    Corner Stone

    January 30, 2017 at 7:03 pm

    TES ? ‏@southerntalker 30m30 minutes ago

    Excuse me @msnbc @NBC … @greta just called Democrats ..the effing “Far Left” at SCOTUSRALLY ??? FIRE HER. THOSE ARE AMERICAN LEADERS

  66. 66.

    Corner Stone

    January 30, 2017 at 7:04 pm

    Lauren ‏@AisforAwkwar 12m12 minutes ago

    Stephen Miller getting a platform with @greta on @MSNBC is an abomination. @maddow maybe you can do a segment on how this is an outrage?

  67. 67.

    Baud

    January 30, 2017 at 7:04 pm

    @Corner Stone: Maddow will call her Auntie Greta.

  68. 68.

    Tilda Swintons Bald Cap

    January 30, 2017 at 7:04 pm

    @Corner Stone: You know he was best friends with Richard Spencer at Duke right ?

  69. 69.

    Corner Stone

    January 30, 2017 at 7:05 pm

    J Kaufman ‏@joankaufman 3m3 minutes ago

    .@greta You failed to call out Miller on his lies about the travel ban. Orlando terrorist was a citizen! No terrorists from those countries

  70. 70.

    Aleta

    January 30, 2017 at 7:06 pm

    What are the chances of Sessions being defeated?

    Also, current acting AG took a symbolic stand.

    WASHINGTON — Acting Attorney General Sally Q. Yates, a holdover from the Obama administration, ordered the Justice Department on Monday not to defend President Trump’s executive order on immigration in court.

    Document: Letter From Sally Yates
    “I am responsible for ensuring that the positions we take in court remain consistent with this institution’s solemn obligation to always seek justice and stand for what is right,” Ms. Yates wrote in a letter to Justice Department lawyers. “At present, I am not convinced that the defense of the executive order is consistent with these responsibilities nor am I convinced that the executive order is lawful.”

    The decision is largely symbolic — Mr. Trump’s nominee to be attorney general, Jeff Sessions, is likely to be confirmed soon

  71. 71.

    Another Scott

    January 30, 2017 at 7:07 pm

    @MazeDancer: This is excellent. She’s an Obama appointee.

    So, does Donnie fire her before Sessions gets a vote? Or does he wait. When will Sessions get a vote?

    If he fires her, who will do it for him?

    Things could get very interesting…

    Or maybe nothing will happen until he gets an AG.

    Who knows… :-/

    But this is good news. Well done acting AG Yates!!

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  72. 72.

    MomSense

    January 30, 2017 at 7:08 pm

    @Baud:

    I’m with you. He told us exactly how awful this would be.

  73. 73.

    Peale

    January 30, 2017 at 7:09 pm

    @p.a.: yep. I figure the mission of the civil rights division will change. I was expecting it to just be hamstrung. Now I’m betting its role will be to support cases against us.

  74. 74.

    Tilda Swintons Bald Cap

    January 30, 2017 at 7:10 pm

    @dogwood: Matt Lauer !

  75. 75.

    Brachiator

    January 30, 2017 at 7:11 pm

    @randy khan:

    Also, it’s worth noting that D.C. has more LGBT people per capita than any state (probably not any other city); there are roughly 60,000 LGBT people in D.C., and tens of thousands more in the nearby suburbs. They will not react well.

    Here’s what I do not get. I will bet good money that gay Washington knows every phony family values Republican who votes against gay interests by day and yet who is hitting the gay scene hard at night. And yet these people are rarely outed.

    I will bet good money that a number of the most rabidly homophobic Republicans have gay staff, many of whom could blow the whistle on the corruption and outrageous behavior of their bosses. And yet they continue to keep their secrets.

    I do not believe that a person should be outed just for the hell of it. But I do not understand how anyone could protect a politician who devotes his or her life to the oppression, humiliation and destruction of gay people.

  76. 76.

    Bill

    January 30, 2017 at 7:11 pm

    @Baud: I keep hearing this too, and it’s baffling. He’s doing EXACTLY what he said he would do. How can anyone be surprised by this?

  77. 77.

    dogwood

    January 30, 2017 at 7:12 pm

    There’s a reason why MSNBC has lousy ratings.

  78. 78.

    JanieM

    January 30, 2017 at 7:13 pm

    @mai naem mobile:

    I can’t believe this one is legal

    There is no blanket civil rights protection for LGBT people at the federal level. Some states have it, some don’t, but one of BJ’s lawyer types would have to explain how the levels interact and how this order would play out in court. If courts matter anymore.

  79. 79.

    cmorenc

    January 30, 2017 at 7:13 pm

    I’m told reliably there is a draft Executive order on LGBT issues including adoption. Details and timing unclear.

    We’ll see. Part of me is wondering if this is a mole hunt inside the WH and this leak is just a chance for Bannon to find the source of leaks, because this would be so unpopular and cause such a shitstorm

    OR: Pence could be behind this potential LGBT move – many of the Cabinet picks and substantive domestic policy moves have his clear stamp on them, even though Bannon’s stamp is also on many of the more in-your-face moves (including intra-circle infighting for access / influence with Trump).

    OR: – both things could be true: it’s possible that this early leak of the LGBT move is Bannon’s to sniff out moles – Pence actually does plan to push Trump to issue something along the lines of the rumored executive order, but is on-board with Bannon that initially, leakage of news about the plans is more about mole-hunting within the staff than any imminent plans to release such an EO.

  80. 80.

    mai naem mobile

    January 30, 2017 at 7:13 pm

    @(((CassandraLeo))): you are right. I actually have seen the term discussed before and understand the term.

  81. 81.

    Donna K

    January 30, 2017 at 7:16 pm

    But he’s going to protect the L-G-B-T-Q community against Radical Islamic Terrorism!

  82. 82.

    Baud

    January 30, 2017 at 7:18 pm

    @dogwood: Seriously. People like to complain about Dems in Congress, but they are millions times better than the so-called liberal news channel. I hope someone does something soon about our lack of our own media.

  83. 83.

    Baud

    January 30, 2017 at 7:20 pm

    If we’re taking down the names of idiots, here’s Jeff Guo at WaPo from Aug. 2016.

    It would be a stretch to call Trump a gay-friendly candidate — he still opposes same-sex marriage — but he supports other LGBT rights and has publicly declared himself a “real friend” to the community. In April, he broke with his GOP rivals by speaking out against North Carolina’s anti-transgender bathroom law. (He later backed off.) And last month in Cleveland, Trump brought in Silicon Valley billionaire Peter Thiel, who became the first openly gay speaker to affirm his sexual orientation onstage at a Republican National Convention.

  84. 84.

    Aleta

    January 30, 2017 at 7:20 pm

    About today’s EO optics to simulate support for small business:
    I don’t know whose polling says what about what s.b. owners want. But I say repealing Obamacare means more expense for small business. Yet I expect they will go out of their way to connect cutting health benefit ‘regulations’ to their professed love for s.b.

  85. 85.

    cmorenc

    January 30, 2017 at 7:23 pm

    @Jeffro:

    2) The 2018 elections will, eventually, arrive. And if Dems keep it up with Indivisible and Swing Left and marches and calls…well, Trumpov’s policies are not theoretical anymore, and Rs’ voting records on those policies will not sit well with about oh 73% of the public.

    The outrage will only result in substantial R to D turnover of seats if significantly more than 50% of the electorate turn out for the midterm elections, because most of that hard-core 27% will, we need a lot more than just the other 23% (out of 50%) to show up to beat ’em, and motivating the rest of the electorate who grumble but don’t show up to instead actually bother to show up has been quite a challenge – the last time we did well at it was 2006.

  86. 86.

    Kathleen

    January 30, 2017 at 7:23 pm

    @debbie: I think Ms. Lamh has already claimed him for her own.

  87. 87.

    mai naem mobile

    January 30, 2017 at 7:24 pm

    @dogwood: they said Lack wants to turn MSNBC into anot her FOX. I’m glad I I haven’t been watching MSNBC a whole lot.

  88. 88.

    Kathleen

    January 30, 2017 at 7:26 pm

    @hovercraft: You nailed it. The point is suffering and chaos for its own sake. It’s worst than incompetence. It’s willfully courting incompetence. I’m not sure the public is really grasping what we’re dealing with.

  89. 89.

    Chip Daniels

    January 30, 2017 at 7:26 pm

    @cmorenc:
    Predictions are hard, especially about the future, but I remember 2006 and the rage that was present about the failed war.
    This time, the rage seems different, more searing by several orders of magnitude.

  90. 90.

    Aleta

    January 30, 2017 at 7:27 pm

    Without a moral AG, they will claim that protections for LGBT workers and customers are an unfair limitation on small business.

  91. 91.

    Kathleen

    January 30, 2017 at 7:28 pm

    @debbie: Well he does live in a civilized enclave in the midst of a morally and spiritually bankrupt state. These are the people who keep returning Zombie Turtle to the Senate along with Rand Paul, the original ferret head and who voted for a governor who promised to take away their health care.

  92. 92.

    cmorenc

    January 30, 2017 at 7:28 pm

    @dogwood:

    The entire NBC operation is tied to Trump. The Today Show gave up an hour to Megyn Kelly.

    Or, Andrew Cuomo’s morning co-anchor over at CNN – Alisyn Camerota, another longtime Fox News anchor who came over in 2014, and still hasn’t gotten out of her Fox-host habits of hostile (aka “tough”, “probing”) cross-examination of interviewees critical of Trump and the GOP.

  93. 93.

    randy khan

    January 30, 2017 at 7:28 pm

    @Brachiator:

    It turns out that the LGBT community is rather more ethical than the Republican Party.

  94. 94.

    Yoda Dog

    January 30, 2017 at 7:29 pm

    @Corner Stone: I just boycott MSNBC. Better for the heart. Both physically and metaphorically.

  95. 95.

    zhena gogolia

    January 30, 2017 at 7:30 pm

    @Baud:

    Yep. I’ve been at DEFCON 1 ever since he got the nomination.

  96. 96.

    Iowa Old Lady

    January 30, 2017 at 7:31 pm

    @Chip Daniels: Much will depend on whether people who dislike Trump’s actions include congress in the blame. The fact that he’s been doing this crap through EOs means they’ve been able to keep their hands clean.

  97. 97.

    Oatler.

    January 30, 2017 at 7:31 pm

    Islam frowns on homosexuality like Christianity does so maybe our new head of state can reach out to the Caliphate as well as Russia.

  98. 98.

    Raven

    January 30, 2017 at 7:31 pm

    WASHINGTON — Acting Attorney General Sally Q. Yates, a holdover from the Obama administration, ordered the Justice Department on Monday not to defend President Trump’s executive order on immigration in court.
    “I am responsible for ensuring that the positions we take in court remain consistent with this institution’s solemn obligation to always seek justice and stand for what is right,” Ms. Yates wrote in a letter to Justice Department lawyers. “At present, I am not convinced that the defense of the executive order is consistent with these responsibilities nor am I convinced that the executive order is lawful.”

  99. 99.

    Spanky

    January 30, 2017 at 7:32 pm

    Just jumped on the ‘puter after another commute from hell, so no doubt this has already been mentioned:

    Part of me is wondering if this is a mole hunt inside the WH and this leak is just a chance for Bannon to find the source of leaks, because this would be so unpopular and cause such a shitstorm that it would be mind blowing.

    Bannon’s goal here is to ratchet the outrage until some protest turns violent, which will give them the fig leaf they think they need to really bring the hammer down on protesters.

    Now to go back through the comments to see who brought this up first ….

  100. 100.

    Kathleen

    January 30, 2017 at 7:32 pm

    @Corner Stone: Maddow is first and foremost a “team player”. Like Stewart, she takes herself and importance too seriously.

  101. 101.

    Major Major Major Major

    January 30, 2017 at 7:32 pm

    @MomSense:

    I’m with you. He told us exactly how awful this would be.

    Which is how we know it’ll get worse…

  102. 102.

    Jeffro

    January 30, 2017 at 7:32 pm

    @cmorenc: I hear you but I think the lessons of 2016 and the likely efforts of a certain community organizer to get people fired up for these midterms should produce results similar to 2006. If not greater.

  103. 103.

    cmorenc

    January 30, 2017 at 7:32 pm

    @Chip Daniels:

    @cmorenc:
    Predictions are hard, especially about the future, but I remember 2006 and the rage that was present about the failed war.
    This time, the rage seems different, more searing by several orders of magnitude.

    You may be right about the level of rage, but OTOH the GOP gerrymandering of districts in 2016 is more egregious by several orders of magnitude. So the dynamic in 2016 is perhaps an even more severe tidal-surge storm-wave crashing into an even higher, stronger seawall the GOP has built since the previous storm twelve years prior to 2018,

  104. 104.

    boatboy_srq

    January 30, 2017 at 7:33 pm

    @RoonieRoo:

    I vote for mole hunt because the alternative is just too horrible predictable.

    FIFY

  105. 105.

    Kathleen

    January 30, 2017 at 7:34 pm

    @Baud: Amen.

  106. 106.

    Chip Daniels

    January 30, 2017 at 7:35 pm

    @Iowa Old Lady:
    Exactly, which is why we can’t assume Trump/Bannon will implode on their own.

    We need to keep up the pressure, make 2018 a referendum on Trump/Bannon, and force everyone from Darryl Issa to Paul Ryan to take a public stand on him.

  107. 107.

    randy khan

    January 30, 2017 at 7:35 pm

    @Another Scott:

    The New York Times article points out (no doubt with an assist from her office) that she’s currently the only Justice Department official of sufficient rank to sign off on FISA warrants – and that’s in the law, not some policy that can be changed at will. So firing her before an AG is confirmed would create actual law enforcement problems.

    That doesn’t mean that Trump wouldn’t do it, but it does mean that people could say, quite accurately, that he was willing to lower our actual defenses against terrorism to take revenge against an official who did something he didn’t like.

  108. 108.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    January 30, 2017 at 7:35 pm

    @Kathleen:

    Speaking of Yertle, there’s a lunchtime protest tomorrow in front of his Louisville office.

    I’m going.

  109. 109.

    Turgidson

    January 30, 2017 at 7:37 pm

    @Corner Stone:

    I watched Greta for five minutes on one of her first days at MSNBC, covering the Women’s Marches. It was a “you can take the woman out of FoxNews, but you can’t take the FoxNews out of the woman” shitshow. She went all “well, these marches are big and everything, but Obama said stuff one time, but he didn’t hire enough women of color so isn’t all of this just hypocritical and a big waste of time?” within the first minute I was watching. Is she still doing that shit?

  110. 110.

    weaselone

    January 30, 2017 at 7:38 pm

    I wonder if Yates might consider running for office.

  111. 111.

    Aleta

    January 30, 2017 at 7:40 pm

    @Baud:

    he did not hide who he was during the campaign.

    One good example:
    http://www.towleroad.com/2016/09/ivanka-trump-gay/

  112. 112.

    JaneE

    January 30, 2017 at 7:43 pm

    Mole hunt or Bible thumpers? Why not both? I haven’t thought Trump was mentally competent for a long time, and can easily believe that all factions of the Trump administration are shoving paper in front of him to sign as fast as they can before his breakdown cannot be hidden any longer.

  113. 113.

    Mister Forkbeard

    January 30, 2017 at 7:43 pm

    @Corner Stone: Seriously. Those Democratic leaders ALSO happen to have the support of the majority of the country against Trump at the moment. What a failure of a hire for MSNBC.

  114. 114.

    Cain

    January 30, 2017 at 7:44 pm

    @Corner Stone: I hate Greta Van Sustern so fucking much right now. Fuck MSNBC and FUCK MADDOW.

    What happened?

  115. 115.

    Corner Stone

    January 30, 2017 at 7:44 pm

    @Turgidson:

    Is she still doing that shit?

    No, she has gotten much worse. She just let Stephen Miller have 10 minutes of unquestioned airtime. No pushback, no fact check, no adversarial questions. Nothing. She may as well have read a press release from the Office of Steve Bannon.
    I am just angry that people here keep trying to say that Maddow needs a pass for overselling Greta.

  116. 116.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    January 30, 2017 at 7:44 pm

    I think this is Dave Brat (but the link in the tweeted text doesn’t work), the guy who successfully primaried Eric Cantor

    Matt McDermott ‏@mattmfm 50m50 minutes ago
    More
    Don’t think these protests are effective? House GOPer: “Women are in my grill no matter where I go. We’re getting hammered.”

  117. 117.

    schrodingers_cat

    January 30, 2017 at 7:45 pm

    This is going to start affecting the economic health of the country pretty soon.
    Some good news. Acting Attorney General is not going to defend the refugee ban.

    * Others got there, first.

  118. 118.

    Turgidson

    January 30, 2017 at 7:46 pm

    @cmorenc:

    I’m hoping that the Zombie-Eyed Granny Starver accidentally does Dems a huge favor by going after Medicare openly so that he and his ghoulish party can have that anchor thrown around their necks. Part of the reason the Dems won in 2006 was that Bush’s Social Security fail parade drew the blue hairs into the Dem camp, for that election at least. If Ryan makes a show of going after Medicare, maybe that will happen again. Problem is, they don’t seem to think that nice young man would ever dream of killing THEIR Medicare, if their preference for Mittens and Ryan in 2012 is any indication. But that time they at least tried to brazenly lie their way out of it by claiming Obamacare “robbed” Medicare. I’m hoping Ryan is smug enough to try to fuck with Medicare out in the open this time.

  119. 119.

    Kathleen

    January 30, 2017 at 7:48 pm

    @Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes: Good for you! I work in the execrable exurbs so I’m not able to make the periodic Chabot protests.

  120. 120.

    MazeDancer

    January 30, 2017 at 7:48 pm

    @Another Scott:

    This is not official knowledge, but pretty sure as soon as new AG is confirmed and sworn in, Yates leaves immediately. She’s just there temporarily so the DOJ can function.

    Even if she could stick around at a lower job, why would she work to enforce bigotry? She could make the world a better place on the outside.

  121. 121.

    schrodingers_cat

    January 30, 2017 at 7:49 pm

    Why is he signing all these EOs when he could just get the Republican Congress to do this.

  122. 122.

    Brachiator

    January 30, 2017 at 7:50 pm

    @randy khan:

    It turns out that the LGBT community is rather more ethical than the Republican Party.

    No one is required by any ethical system to protect the secrets of someone who is trying to destroy them.

  123. 123.

    Kathleen

    January 30, 2017 at 7:50 pm

    @Turgidson: Sherrod Brown says the last thing Republicans want is for voters to know what they’re really doing, which is why he encouraged us to ask for their positions on proposed legislation.

  124. 124.

    Bendal

    January 30, 2017 at 7:51 pm

    Every time I hear about one of these rumored acts from this administration, I remember that Bannon has described himself as a Leninist, someone who wants to tear down our society just to see what replaces it. As Trumpf’s right hand man, he reminds me of Heinrich Himmler, one of Hitler’s closest confidants who rose in power until he was the #2 man in the Reich, and described as the most feared man in the country. Bannon is tied to Trumpf to push his own agenda and knows Trumpf is too ignorant and arrogant to pay much attention to the details; according to insiders Bannon is the one prodding and goading Trumpf into believing he can do everything he said he’d do on the campaign trail.

  125. 125.

    patroclus

    January 30, 2017 at 7:53 pm

    I think that this leak is from someone who has information that an anti-gay EO is being considered but they’re leaking it in order to generate opposition so that it doesn’t actually get implemented. That is, Pence and his cronies are pushing something like this and Trump is undecided at present, so this is a media trial balloon to out the opposition. We’ll see. It would generate a lot of criticism, even from the Log Cabin crowd. But ENDA was never implemented into law, so there really isn’t any protection for gays under federal law, beyond Obama’s EO, which could be rescinded. Unlike the immigration EO, this could well be upheld in the courts. It just depends on whether Trump decides to do it. If implemented, it would be awful and would set us back decades.

  126. 126.

    dogwood

    January 30, 2017 at 7:53 pm

    Fox didn’t renew Greta’s contract, after she slavishly defended Roger Ailes until the end. Does anyone think the Fox fans gave a damn? What would she bring to the table as far as MSNBC is concerned? Certainly not a fan base. Megan Kelly will help to turn NBC further to the right because the network morning shows have decent audiences.

  127. 127.

    dogwood

    January 30, 2017 at 7:55 pm

    @schrodingers_cat:
    Because letting congress do it doesn’t make it about him.

  128. 128.

    Jerzy Russian

    January 30, 2017 at 7:57 pm

    @debbie: I am straighter than the Road to Hell, but I would totally go on a date with Idris Elba.

  129. 129.

    humboldtblue

    January 30, 2017 at 7:58 pm

    @efgoldman:

    I’m chortling.

    And I needed a good chortle.

    If that sounds dirty to you may I … I … umm. Carry on.

  130. 130.

    Dog Dawg Damn

    January 30, 2017 at 7:58 pm

    @Corner Stone: Hey that’s me! I’m Martin Van Urine (“@Noneya_Mindyers”)

  131. 131.

    Mike in NC

    January 30, 2017 at 7:58 pm

    @schrodingers_cat: I will go with “he’s a power-hungry megalomaniac who constantly needs to hog the spotlight”.

  132. 132.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    January 30, 2017 at 7:59 pm

    @patroclus: It’ll happen, they’re just waiting for “Take Out the Trash Day”(aka, a Friday evening).

  133. 133.

    Cain

    January 30, 2017 at 7:59 pm

    @cmorenc:

    The outrage will only result in substantial R to D turnover of seats if significantly more than 50% of the electorate turn out for the midterm elections, because most of that hard-core 27% will, we need a lot more than just the other 23% (out of 50%) to show up to beat ’em, and motivating the rest of the electorate who grumble but don’t show up to instead actually bother to show up has been quite a challenge – the last time we did well at it was 2006.

    That depends on whether we can organize to get everybody registered to vote despite voting suppression laws. I suspect there will be more coming and it will come at the last minute so that we don’t have the ability to react to them. I suggest that we take the long tail to 2018, and start registering voters now while we still can, and then setup a way to educate them. We should use these things to help drive voter registration, set up a vacation time so they can put the vote in etc.

    The other thing is making sure that they don’t understaff a voting area… There is going to be a lot of dirty tricks coming down the line. Let’s at least remove that when we still have time to work against it. This is what I want the DNC to be thinking of.

  134. 134.

    Major Major Major Major

    January 30, 2017 at 8:01 pm

    @Bendal: this thing is pure Pence though.

  135. 135.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    January 30, 2017 at 8:01 pm

    @Cain: Agreed, also getting folk the necessary ID where required.

  136. 136.

    EBT

    January 30, 2017 at 8:02 pm

    https://twitter.com/AP/status/826220937334882307?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

  137. 137.

    mike in dc

    January 30, 2017 at 8:02 pm

    @Cain:

    We will need to not only register people to vote, we will have to ensure that they have a valid state-ID or driver’s license. Much harder to suppress the vote if you’re following the letter of the law they impose upon you.

  138. 138.

    NotMax

    January 30, 2017 at 8:02 pm

    @schrodingers_cat

    No doubt whatsoever that Bannon has been supplied with binders detailing every EO Obama signed and is attempting to strike while the iron is hot to erase as much of the last president’s legacy as possible.

  139. 139.

    Dog Dawg Damn

    January 30, 2017 at 8:06 pm

    If the worst of the EO on gay rights is actually true, expect massive civil disobedience.

    This needs to move into a massive demonstration that demands he step down – similar to Korea. That’s where it’s headed.

  140. 140.

    SiubhanDuinne

    January 30, 2017 at 8:07 pm

    @debbie:

    Trump doesn’t seem to need Congress at all.

    Sooner or later, that’s bound to irk them.

  141. 141.

    randy khan

    January 30, 2017 at 8:09 pm

    @Brachiator:

    You’re right – no system requires that. But at the same time, the LGBT community long has taken that position that everyone is entitled to come out whenever or however (to everyone, to just a few friends, whatever) that person wants, and it is very ethical to apply that position consistently, and particularly to people who are doing things you hate.

    But, really, the Ebola virus is more ethical than the Republican Party, so it’s a pretty low bar.

  142. 142.

    chris

    January 30, 2017 at 8:09 pm

    @Baud:

    You can look to the president-elect himself for a vision of what is to come. He has told you his plans all along, though most chose to downplay or deny them. You can even look back to before his candidacy, when in February 2014, he went on Fox News to defend Russia. Why a reality TV host was on Fox News defending Russia is its own story, but
    Listen to what Trump said already back in 2014. here is what he said about his desired outcome for the United States:

    “You know what solves it? When the economy crashes, when the country goes to total hell and everything is a disaster. Then you’ll have a [chuckles], you know, you’ll have riots to go back to where we used to be when we were great.”

    This is what “Make America Great Again” means to Donald Trump.

    Sarah Kendzior two months ago.

  143. 143.

    Cain

    January 30, 2017 at 8:10 pm

    @BillinGlendaleCA:

    @Cain: Agreed, also getting folk the necessary ID where required.

    Frankly, I’m kind of puzzled why they wouldn’t have ID in the first place by this time? I mean, as we get more computerized, I would think an id of some sort will be required. I’m not able to understand the barriers of not getting one other than having some kind of physical disability.

  144. 144.

    SiubhanDuinne

    January 30, 2017 at 8:11 pm

    @debbie:

    Oh crap, I’m in competition with lamh and I haven’t a chance. Dammit.

  145. 145.

    Cain

    January 30, 2017 at 8:11 pm

    @mike in dc:

    @Cain: Agreed, also getting folk the necessary ID where required.

    That has to happen now. Not 6 months before elections. Now, right now.

  146. 146.

    EBT

    January 30, 2017 at 8:11 pm

    @Cain: You can’t understand living in a place where the DMV is open a few hours a week, or a few hours a month and your work not giving you time off?

  147. 147.

    Cain

    January 30, 2017 at 8:13 pm

    @Dog Dawg Damn:

    If the worst of the EO on gay rights is actually true, expect massive civil disobedience.

    Why would you think that? Just curious? Yes, most people are fine with gay rights, but outraged enough to be out on the street? It will depend on how it is coached to the public.

  148. 148.

    Brachiator

    January 30, 2017 at 8:13 pm

    @randy khan:

    You’re right – no system requires that. But at the same time, the LGBT community long has taken that position that everyone is entitled to come out whenever or however (to everyone, to just a few friends, whatever) that person wants, and it is very ethical to apply that position consistently, and particularly to people who are doing things you hate.

    I don’t think this is being applied ethically at all. It’s as idiotic as saying that being against murder means that you cannot defend yourself against someone trying to kill you.

    This is not holding onto an ethical standard. It is delusional and suicidal. But if they gay community chooses this, then I presume that they are willing to accept the consequences of continued oppression.

  149. 149.

    SiubhanDuinne

    January 30, 2017 at 8:14 pm

    @Corner Stone:

    I hate Greta Van Sustern so fucking much right now. Fuck MSNBC and FUCK MADDOW.

    I hate Greta Van Susteren on general principles. What did Rachel do or say?

  150. 150.

    (((CassandraLeo)))

    January 30, 2017 at 8:15 pm

    @randy khan: This strikes me as massively unfair to the Ebola virus, which lacks any form of sentience. The RWNJs have made these choices consciously.

  151. 151.

    SiubhanDuinne

    January 30, 2017 at 8:15 pm

    @Baud:

    excepted = expected.

    Insect = Incest.

  152. 152.

    Cain

    January 30, 2017 at 8:16 pm

    @EBT:

    @Cain: You can’t understand living in a place where the DMV is open a few hours a week, or a few hours a month and your work not giving you time off?

    I can understand that, but to not go for decades or an entire life span? There was never a time where you needed a govt id in your entire life that you were unable to do it? I can’t fathom it, and truly I must live a privileged life to not ,and for that I am sorry.

  153. 153.

    Cain

    January 30, 2017 at 8:17 pm

    @SiubhanDuinne:

    I hate Greta Van Susteren on general principles. What did Rachel do or say?

    I assume Maddow asked forbearance and to give Greta a chance.

  154. 154.

    Dog Dawg Damn

    January 30, 2017 at 8:18 pm

    @Cain: The ID’s don’t last “an entire life span”.

    They expire.

  155. 155.

    chris

    January 30, 2017 at 8:18 pm

    @schrodingers_cat: Cuz he’s da boss. With any luck Congress will carry the blame in 2018.

  156. 156.

    NotMax

    January 30, 2017 at 8:19 pm

    @EBT

    Plus people lacking proper documentation or whose documents don’t exactly match or for whom obtaining documentation is a serious financial burden.

    @Cain

    In short, “Papers, please” is unAmerican.

  157. 157.

    Dog Dawg Damn

    January 30, 2017 at 8:19 pm

    @Cain: What happens is, they expire, and it’s infinitely more difficult for some to attain new ones. Poor people don’t have cars. They don’t have consistent housing. They lose things in moves (birth certificates, etc.) that are needed to get them. They are just struggling to get by, and it’s a huge inconvenience.

    Over millions of people, this has a non-negligible effect on outcome of vote.

  158. 158.

    Cain

    January 30, 2017 at 8:20 pm

    @Dog Dawg Damn:

    They expire.

    Yes that’s true. I appreciate you pointing that out. I guess, I was assuming they never had one in the first place or they never had one. I assume that there are services and others where one is required to have an unexpired ID to continue having those services or even things like banks or anything else. I guess one can assume nothing. Sorry if I come across as clueless.

  159. 159.

    Turgidson

    January 30, 2017 at 8:21 pm

    @Cain:

    The obstacles get deliberately created. Make it so that there are just one or two places to get said ID, far from where the people who are most likely to need one live. Those people disproportionately don’t have cars and have jobs that make it impossible for them to go get the ID during business hours. And then there’s a fee to get the ID, which is a burden to these same people.

    The goal is to create a bunch of little things that add up to it being massive pain in the ass for the people they’re trying to disenfranchise, so that they don’t bother trying or give up.

  160. 160.

    Corner Stone

    January 30, 2017 at 8:22 pm

    @SiubhanDuinne: MSNBC hired GvS. Maddow gave a 10 minute intro and tongue bath welcoming GvS to MSNBC and instructed us all how GvS was such an amazing person and implored that we give GvS a chance.
    After tonight’s propaganda, and sheer wall of bullshit GvS not only did not push back against, but basically hosted Stephen Miller to give all his anti-fact RWNJ shit speech. And then thanked him for it.

  161. 161.

    NotMax

    January 30, 2017 at 8:23 pm

    @Cain

    You may be surprised to learn that many, many people do not have any type of bank account.

  162. 162.

    Davis X. Machina

    January 30, 2017 at 8:24 pm

    @Dog Dawg Damn: Why can’t they live nice tidy, stable middle class lives like me. I mean, really…

  163. 163.

    Renie

    January 30, 2017 at 8:25 pm

    @Spanky: I’ve been saying this for days. They will definitely try to shut down protesting. I would expect #PresidentBannon to arrange for moles to start violence at several protests and use that violence as an excuse to shut all protests down. The term ‘national security’ will be used a lot as justification.

  164. 164.

    Peale

    January 30, 2017 at 8:26 pm

    @Brachiator: We do out, but you have to remember, it requires a bit of proof before it will get picked up. Like when the undocumented immigrant and lover of that Arizona sheriff with ties to the Romney campaign outed him, there were actual emails involved. No one is going to believe Larry Craig is gay just on the say so of some guy who says he had a tryst with him in the airport. And no one is going to believe the minister hired a rent boy without a photo of the two of them at the airport.

  165. 165.

    randy khan

    January 30, 2017 at 8:26 pm

    @Brachiator:

    You might have noticed the LGBT community fighting against oppression in other ways.

    The analogy isn’t perfect, of course, but as a society we’ve agreed it’s perfectly ethical – indeed, required – that confidentiality between doctors and patients, priests and parishioners, and lawyers and clients be respected and enforced. A lawyer who breaches confidentiality can be kicked out of the bar, for instance. The exceptions are very, very narrow, and there generally is no sanction for failing to disclose something you should disclose. (For instance, a lawyer actually is not permitted to tell even a judge that her client is lying on the stand, although at the same time she’s required in many circumstances to stop representing the client.) There is something similar going on here.

  166. 166.

    Frank Wilhoit

    January 30, 2017 at 8:28 pm

    Whatever the eventual EO says, it will have exactly one purpose: to send a coded signal that violence against individual LGBT persons will not be prosecuted.

  167. 167.

    SiubhanDuinne

    January 30, 2017 at 8:32 pm

    @Corner Stone:

    I am just angry that people here keep trying to say that Maddow needs a pass for overselling Greta.

    Has anyone here seriously said that?

  168. 168.

    NotMax

    January 30, 2017 at 8:36 pm

    @SiubhanDuinne

    Any guesstimates as to how many variations and updates of “I’ve Got A Little List” are being penned as we speak?

  169. 169.

    Corner Stone

    January 30, 2017 at 8:38 pm

    @SiubhanDuinne: Ummm…yes. More excuses than a teenager who gets caught putting water in a vodka bottle in their parents liquor cabinet.

  170. 170.

    Mnemosyne

    January 30, 2017 at 8:42 pm

    @Cain:

    As rikyrah has pointed out before, there’s a whole cohort of Black people born in the South pre-1964 who never had a birth certificate, because segregated hospitals wouldn’t let them be born there. The problem also exists for Latinos in Texas because Jim Crow laws applied to them, too.

    Until 9/11, there were other avenues you could pursue to prove you were born here, like producing a family Bible or christening record, getting sworn affadavits from family members, etc. Now, however, many of those avenues have been closed in the name of “security,” and it ain’t a coincidence that closing them made it virtually impossible for people in that situation to get a voting ID.

  171. 171.

    SiubhanDuinne

    January 30, 2017 at 8:43 pm

    @Cain:

    Frankly, I’m kind of puzzled why they wouldn’t have ID in the first place by this time?

    Really, are you serious? There are people all over this country who don’t have transportation to their nearest (read, very far-away) Motor Vehicles headquarters, or who can’t get time off from their jobs to make the trip, or who, for a variety of reasons, can’t obtain/afford the cost of the primary documentation such as birth certificates. This is the kind of white privilege comment* that is at the heart of so much anguish and discrimination.

    *Accent on the “privilege.” I have no idea whether or not you are white.

  172. 172.

    Mnemosyne

    January 30, 2017 at 8:47 pm

    @Cain:

    Also, too, as I noted above, the rules changed after 9/11 and someone who was able to get an ID or driver’s license under the old rules might not be able to renew an existing license or ID because the documentation rules changed. And, again, it is not a coincidence that these new rules ended up disproportionately affecting black and brown people.

  173. 173.

    SiubhanDuinne

    January 30, 2017 at 8:48 pm

    @Corner Stone:

    MSNBC hired GvS. Maddow gave a 10 minute intro and tongue bath welcoming GvS to MSNBC and instructed us all how GvS was such an amazing person and implored that we give GvS a chance.
    After tonight’s propaganda, and sheer wall of bullshit GvS not only did not push back against, but basically hosted Stephen Miller to give all his anti-fact RWNJ shit speech. And then thanked him for it.

    Oh, well, I agree. Fuck all of all that.

  174. 174.

    SiubhanDuinne

    January 30, 2017 at 8:49 pm

    @NotMax:

    Heh, I’m working on one. If I can get it to scan and rhyme and be amusing, I’ll post it here.

    Edit: Sorry, I lied inadvertently. I am working on a spoof of “My Object All Sublime.”

  175. 175.

    David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch

    January 30, 2017 at 8:49 pm

    because this would be so unpopular and cause such a shitstorm that it would be mind blowing.

    it may be generally unpopular, but it would be popular with their base, which is all they care about.

  176. 176.

    Cain

    January 30, 2017 at 8:51 pm

    @SiubhanDuinne:

    I’m not white, but I would admit I am privileged. I am not always exposed to daily hardships that some people go through except when I do GOTV stuff and speak with people on the phone or knock on doors. (which is why I do them) I’m also Indian, so how life is when I go back to India radically different than my life in the U.S. They all serve as a check on my own privilege or white privilege, however you want to describe it. (I also live in Portland, OR, where you can hit any DMV fairly easily and there is a good social network, your mileage may vary in other towns)

    I can’t help solve a problem until I understand it.

  177. 177.

    Cain

    January 30, 2017 at 8:53 pm

    @Mnemosyne:

    Also, too, as I noted above, the rules changed after 9/11 and someone who was able to get an ID or driver’s license under the old rules might not be able to renew an existing license or ID because the documentation rules changed. And, again, it is not a coincidence that these new rules ended up disproportionately affecting black and brown people.

    Right and I expect them to change again, both at the state and federal level. Regardless of my own lack of awareness, I think we can agree that early preparation is something we should push for. I don’t mind giving money for that (once I am gainfully employed again)

  178. 178.

    randy khan

    January 30, 2017 at 8:54 pm

    @Cain:

    Not to pile on, as I believe you when you say you didn’t know, but somewhere around 12% of black people don’t have the kind of ID required in voter ID states. And, just for kicks, the laws generally permit IDs that would be held by people who tend to vote Republican, like gun permits, but not IDs that would be held by people who tend to vote Democratic, like student IDs. (Because, you know, there’s rampant student ID fraud out there.) In fact, with fewer young people getting drivers licenses, the younger demographic is becoming less likely to have the ID required for voting than in the past.

  179. 179.

    Another Scott

    January 30, 2017 at 8:56 pm

    @randy khan: She got to him. He’s steaming…

    The Democrats are delaying my cabinet picks for purely political reasons. They have nothing going but to obstruct. Now have an Obama A.G.— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) January 31, 2017

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  180. 180.

    Central Planning

    January 30, 2017 at 8:58 pm

    @Peale: Why do all these homosexuals keep sucking my cock?

  181. 181.

    Cain

    January 30, 2017 at 9:05 pm

    @randy khan:
    Yes, I heard that before as well. Especially amongst older black folks if I recall that data correctly. In any case, the discussion does illustrate some things – some folks are clueless about the situation in regards to IDs and the situations on getting IDs is difficult, and that there are barriers both current and possibly in the future in getting Democrats registered.

    Oregon has vote by mail, and generally has a higher participation rate. If you have a drivers license you are automatically registered to vote, and I think the burdens for getting a drivers license isn’t onerous as in other states.

  182. 182.

    Cain

    January 30, 2017 at 9:08 pm

    @Mnemosyne:

    As rikyrah has pointed out before, there’s a whole cohort of Black people born in the South pre-1964 who never had a birth certificate, because segregated hospitals wouldn’t let them be born there. The problem also exists for Latinos in Texas because Jim Crow laws applied to them, too.

    Right, and as you say, post 9-11, they changed the rules. That poses an enormous issue.

  183. 183.

    randy khan

    January 30, 2017 at 9:13 pm

    @Another Scott:

    Well, that is excellent news.

  184. 184.

    Cain

    January 30, 2017 at 9:14 pm

    @efgoldman:

    Are you a troll, or just an ignorant pile of pig shit?

    I’m not trying to be provocative. You do know, that I’ve been posting here since 2003 right? Feel free to look at my entire posting history and then see if anything I’ve said thus far has been trollish? Perhaps you should assume good intentions first?

    There is nothing wrong in challenging an assumption. My very assumptions was challenged in this very thread, and you’ll note that I accepted my lack of understanding and accepted what people told me because I trust them.

  185. 185.

    rikyrah

    January 30, 2017 at 9:18 pm

    @debbie:
    lamh??? -Idris is her Boo???

  186. 186.

    J R in WV

    January 30, 2017 at 9:20 pm

    @p.a.:

    I just joined ACLU today, and then signed up as a monthly supporter of the Southern Poverty Law Center. I had a professor who was pretty supportive of that group back in the 1970s. He was fired from Emory for supporting desegregation, then got on at Maryland IIRC.

    We’ve been monthly supporters of Planned Parenthood for years now. I have thought of a few more organizations we can support by diverting the monthly contribution we were making to the Clinton campaign.

  187. 187.

    Corner Stone

    January 30, 2017 at 9:29 pm

    @efgoldman: You’re usually ok, but when you get a few drinks in you, you really turn into a demon alcoholic asshole that is full of alcohol and evil demonism.
    What a drunken asshole you are. Go back to the margarita pitcher you disgusting drunk!

  188. 188.

    Another Scott

    January 30, 2017 at 9:29 pm

    @Cain: Lots of people don’t have copies of their birth certificates (lost it, or never had one to begin with – e.g. born at home). Lots of places make you apply for IDs in person.

    E.g. Kansas.

    Apply for a Kansas ID Card

    To apply for a Kansas ID card, you must visit a Kansas Department of Revenue (DOR) Drivers License Station in person. You cannot apply for a KS ID card online or by mail.

    If you are under 16 years old, your parent or guardian will need to be with you to sign your application.
    U.S. Citizens

    If you are a U.S. citizen, you must bring:

    * Proof of identity (e.g., certified U.S. birth certificate, U.S. passport, or naturalization certificate).
    * Proof of Kansas residency (e.g., recent utility bill, recent W-2 form, or school tuition invoice).
    * Your Social Security number, or a document proving your lawful presence in the U.S. (e.g., passport with I-94, I-551 Resident Alien card, or photo employment authorization).
    * Valid payment. See the “KS Identification Card Fees” section below for more information.

    […]

    KS Identification Card Fees

    If you are a U.S. citizen, your Kansas ID card will be valid for 6 years. If you are a non-U.S. citizen, your Kansas ID card will be valid for as long as you are legally able to stay in the U.S. If you do not have a definite end date to your stay, your KS ID card will be valid for 1 year at a time.

    To apply for or renew a KS identification card, it will cost you:

    $22 if you’re under 65 years old.
    $18 if you’re 65 years old or older.
    $18 if you’re disabled.

    A replacement KS ID card will cost you $12.

    If you are a registered voter in Kansas and don’t have a valid form of photo identification, you may be eligible for a free KS ID card. See the section below on “Voting With Your Kansas ID” for more information.

    Renew Your Kansas ID Card

    Your Kansas ID card will be valid for 6 years. You will receive a notice at least 30 days before your expiration date letting you know that it’s time to renew your ID card. If you do not renew your KS identification card within 90 days after its expiration date, you will need to apply for a new card using the steps listed above.

    To renew your Kansas ID card, you must visit you local Kansas DOR Drivers License Station in person. You cannot renew your Kansas ID card online or by mail.

    You must bring:

    * Your current KS ID card.
    * Proof of Kansas residency (e.g., recent utility bill, recent W-2 form, or school tuition invoice).
    * Your Social Security number, or a document proving your lawful presence in the U.S. (e.g., passport with I-94, I-551 Resident Alien card, or photo employment authorization).
    * Valid payment for the renewal fee.

    All documents must be originals or certified copies. The Kansas DOR will not accept photocopies. Visit the Kansas DOR website for a full list acceptable documents.

    People get passports by mail. Other states let you renew drivers licenses by mail or online.

    These draconian state ID rules are not simply inconveniences, they’re specifically designed to keep people from voting.

    Yes, people need to do what they can to get registered. But it looks like most counties in Kansas have one applicable location.

    There could be lots of reasons why people still aren’t registered to vote and don’t have what they need to register.

    HTH.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  189. 189.

    Corner Stone

    January 30, 2017 at 9:30 pm

    @Cain: Don’t worry too much about him, he’s a nasty drunk who lashes out.

  190. 190.

    tarragon

    January 30, 2017 at 9:34 pm

    And CNN says Acting Attorney General is fired.

  191. 191.

    J R in WV

    January 30, 2017 at 9:35 pm

    @efgoldman:

    Now, watch it EF!

    Some people call commenters here at B-J a pack of jackals, and I would like to think we can live up to that nickname. But don’t compare jackals to Republicans! Just don’t go there!!

  192. 192.

    Another Scott

    January 30, 2017 at 9:40 pm

    @tarragon: As I said, she got to him.

    This should light a fire under the Democrats to refuse to bring Sessions up for a vote, and to make the Republicans – alone – vote for him if they want to try to force a vote for him.

    Let’s see if the good guys (and gals) can take Trump down a few notches with this…

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  193. 193.

    Cain

    January 30, 2017 at 9:48 pm

    @Corner Stone:
    No worries :) it has been years since I got flamed on here.

  194. 194.

    jonas

    January 30, 2017 at 10:08 pm

    @randy khan: It can if you just blow off the judicial branch, court orders, etc.. They keep bringing up how much they love Andrew Jackson for some reason…

  195. 195.

    jonas

    January 30, 2017 at 10:15 pm

    @SiubhanDuinne: Also, a lot of public records, e.g. birth certificates, have to be ordered online now. If you don’t have broadband, which a lot of poor/rural areas across the country don’t, you’re probably not going to bother.

  196. 196.

    SgrAstar

    January 30, 2017 at 10:17 pm

    @Cain: Cain. People need certified birth certificates to get ID. The birth certs cost money, and the offices that provide them on a walk-in basis aren’t often in proximity. In fact, in some states you have to travel 100s of miles to the DMV, and you don’t have a car. Many people who were home-birthed don’t have birth certificates. See where we’re going with this? Costs are imposed, access is designed to be extremely difficult, information isn’t readily available….presto! We have a system which deliberately excludes potential voters.

  197. 197.

    Jaker

    January 30, 2017 at 11:11 pm

    @randy khan:

    Yes, for the reason idiots Pence & Ryan are Trump’s chief “Head-nodders”!

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