Pentagon is compiling list of names of Iraqi citizens who have worked w/ US military w/ recommendation they be exempt from Trump travel ban.
— W.J. Hennigan (@wjhenn) January 30, 2017
If President-Asterisk Bannon Trump hadn’t been in such a hurry to get his bigly ‘He-Man Muslim-Haters’ Club’ proclamation out, maybe this could’ve been done in advance.
But then, if the grownups at the Pentagon had been given any warning, they’d probably have gone all boringly OMG WORST IDEA EVER, and who needs that hassle?
ETA: From Buzzfeed:
… Secretary of Defense Jim Mattis, who was not consulted before the executive order, defense officials said, asked that the list be compiled. It was immediately unclear how many categories would be in the request or whether it applies to those who worked alongside US troops during the 2003–11 Iraq War or only those currently part of the US–Iraqi campaign against ISIS.
US troops are currently fighting side by side with Iraqi troops in the ISIS-controlled Iraqi city of Mosul. There also are hundreds of US Special Forces in Syria, whose citizens also are now banned from entering the United States.
Navy Captain Jeff Davis later clarified to reporters the list will include individual names as well as broad categories and would include Iraqis who aided US forces during the Iraq War. The White House offered the Pentagon the chance to make exemptions “sometime over the weekend,” Davis said, after the order was signed…
Mattis had no obligation as defense secretary to comment about the order. But as a Marine veteran and one one-time general who worked alongside interpreters during the war, and whose troops depended on Iraqis to stay alive during the wars, his silence on the issue was notable.
I’d been wondering if Rep. Moulton’s comments this weekend might’ve been intended as a challenge…
Rep. @sethmoulton: "No way in hell" Defense Secretary Mattis is supportive of Pres. Trump's immigration order https://t.co/Fi6YBJ7kFW pic.twitter.com/NG8xmSQYS0
— This Week (@ThisWeekABC) January 29, 2017
DOD better hope to freakin' God that roster never gets hacked. It becomes an ISIS kill list if it does. https://t.co/denUzTkNag
— Noah Shachtman (@NoahShachtman) January 30, 2017
HOW YOU LIKE YOUR BLUE-EYED BOY NOW, REPUBS?
Brachiator
We’ve only just begun.
Sigh. I remember when people were trying to convince recalcitrant voters that the Supreme Court was too damn important to let it slip into the hands of the GOP.
The orange roosters are definitely coming home to root.
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
Couple of thinks I thunk:
1. Did Trump’s EOs so overreach that they saved Germany and France from rightist populism? Eager to see what happens in Europe moving forward.
2. I’m wondering if Trump has, as an adult, held a door or an umbrella for a lady, taken out a trash can, fed a pet, taken a dog for a walk, changed a diaper, rinsed a dish, warmed up a car…
West of the Rockies (been a while)
ee cummings had personal flaws but was an amazing poet.
Jeff
They still love him.
West of the Rockies (been a while)
@Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes:
Wiped his own keister, flushed his own feces….
Jeff
Trump immigration ban tipping point in worst stock market selloff in months. Thanks Donald.
Waynski
If I was an Iraqi, I’d be thinking long and hard about where my better prospect were.
Mary G
@Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes: I said when John found and rescued Walter that he was the anti-Trump, because all I could imagine was Trump sweeping through some building he had bought to develop, come across Walter, and just threw him out of the window, or kicked him, or order a flunky to take him out back and shoot him, or even just pitched a fit because he had to see and smell that.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
geg6
@Brachiator:
Schumer has come out and said that Dems will filibuster. He seems to have grown a pair in the last 48 hours. He also said he won’t be voting for any more cabinet picks either.
@Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes:
1) I’m with you and waiting with bated breath for what happens there.
2) None of the above. Ever.
trollhattan
@Brachiator:
Every little thing with this guy is a photo-op. Everything. Surprised Tinkerbell isn’t his press secretary.
trollhattan
@geg6: About damn time. Hope others follow (don’t know how much clout senate minority leader wheels, especially over a cat herd.
mai naem mobile
@Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes: no, never ever. Pretty sure when he goes to a store and sees those donate your chance boxes, he grabs the boxes because no kid with some awful deserves to have anything,only he himself deserves everything.
bemused
I just read MPR story on Minnesotan’s reactions on muslim ban when I came to Rep. Tom Emmer’s comments that people were overreacting and misinterpreting the order which was a temporary suspension until the new administration had a chance to review the immigrant vetting process. He said, “Everybody just needs to take a deep breath”, he told WCCO-TV. “There is no test based on religion or anything else. This is not about a ban on any religion. This is about no matter who you are…that you can be safe her in the US and your own community. Everybody just needs to calm down.”
I thought my head was going to explode and phoned his office and told staffer exactly how I felt about his comments.
Emmer’s DC number is 202-225-2331 for Minnesotans or anyone else to do the same.
Barbara
@Jeff: As my husband told me this morning, of course people can disagree about how many refugees to admit, from which countries, using whatever vetting process, but announcing this kind of policy on the fly, not being clear who it applies to, and then actually applying it to people who have already received valid visas signals one thing: the United States isn’t reliable. If the threat of taxes on Mexican imports didn’t scare you, or if the draconian proposal in Trump’s tax bill to disallow the cost of any imported goods for purposes of calculating income didn’t set your teeth on edge, this kind of heedless action without regard for consequences tells you that he will try to do whatever he feels like and you might or might not have legal recourse.
rikyrah
Foreign Service Officers Join the Dissent
by Nancy LeTourneau
January 30, 2017 11:41 AM
Over the weekend thousands of people took to the streets (again) and international airports to protest against the current occupant of the White House. This time the focus of their dissent was on the executive order Trump signed banning immigration from seven predominantly Muslim countries.
According to the folks at Lawfare, opposition to that order has now been joined by hundreds of foreign service officers and diplomats at the State Department. They’re using the State Department’s Dissent Channel, which was created in 1971 in response to concerns within the Department over the government’s handling of the Vietnam War.
Employees have drafted a dissent memo (which you can read at the Lawfare link above) stating their opposition to the president’s executive order, saying that “the ban” will not achieve its ends, is likely to be counterproductive, and it even offers a more pragmatic way forward. It ends with this:
Major Major Major Major
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: country of origin or religion though, that’s OK.
ETA: @rikyrah: how long until they try to close the Dissent Channel?
mai naem mobile
I can’t be bothered to look this up but there’s 44 Dem Senators (incl.Sanders and King.) I know Manchin,Heidtkamp,Donnelly and Tester may vote for 45’s USSC nominee Anybody else? McCasskill?
Captain C
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: So now we know that Liar Spice is scared of little kids. I suspect his boss is, also.
Brachiator
@geg6:
Hope he’s grown ’em, because he’s gonna need them.
Immanentize
Moulton is ready for prime time….
Jeffro
Their sheer incompetence, love for Putin and Nazis, and slobbering desire to offend will keep them from being even half as effective if they could be. So there’s that. We have now seen Peak Wingnut, and Peak Wingnut can’t seem to find its ass with a flashlight…
Sebastian
#wethepeople
Jeffro
Trump has clearly decided that in all things, it’s better to make excuses afterwards than run stuff by people who actually KNOW things.
And Sean Spicer is a lying sack of crap. His “greatest hits” video is going to make me laugh quite a bit someday, just not today…
Brachiator
@trollhattan:
Kellyanne Con Job is pretty close.
Percysowner
I posted in an earlier thread, but just in case it got missed.
Sign up here.
Furrowed Brow
Grateful lurker here with a question that I hope isn’t too far afield. Assuming white nationalists control BlowHair’s inner circle, what is their endgame? Apartheid? Christian, whites-only US? Bannon seems angling for violence, so kudos to protestors for not giving it to him. But I can’t see what their “final solution” is. One nightmare is that Bannon is urging Trump to war and civil strife, telling Trump the apex of power is being a wartime president. Thoughts?
Tilda Swintons Bald Cap
They fuckin’ love him.
Brachiator
@Jeffro:
Who was it, said something that covered this situation. Let’s see. Hmmm. Oh yeah.
Ignorance is Strength.
— Orwell, 1984
Skippy-san
I really am beginning to think Kevin Drum has it right-Bannon is trying to provoke unrest so that people develop protest fatigue.”Bannon thinks middle America will be appalled that lefties and the elite media are taking the side of terrorists.” God I hate this worthless man. Die MAGA DIE! http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2017/01/trumps-immigration-fiasco-might-be-more-premeditated-we-think
zhena gogolia
@Immanentize:
Moulton 2020
VOR
@bemused: Emmer is a known wingnut. IIRC he has Michele Bachmann’s old district composed largely of exurbs.
Major Major Major Major
@Skippy-san: I found that piece convincing yesterday, and I still think so. I’m not saying it will work but I think that’s Bannon’s strategy and explains why he did the last-second switcheroo with the EO.
XTPD
So does anyone think Mad Dog will snap soon and put Blithering Butthole in a pine box?
ruemara
I just heard that the next EO will address LGBTQ rights. And I’m sure this won’t be to expand them. Hang on to your hats, kiddies.
Raven Onthill
My brief comment on the current situation: Dodging Bullets: Stochastic Terrorism and the Trump Administration.
The Moar You Know
They love him more than ever. I really didn’t have an idea of the scope of it until this weekend. They are perfectly willing to see America die in a sea of fire (seriously) because this president is giving them what they want: fuck yous to everybody, especially liberals, niggers and queers, EVERY SINGLE DAY.
Trump is Cleek’s Law come to life.
ChrisB
@Brachiator: I saw someone say that the 8:00 pm time was to preempt the Nancy Pelosi town hall at 9:00 pm on CNN, and was also moved up to change the subject of the muslim ban.
Major Major Major Major
Trump’s pro-religious-discrimination-against-gay-people blitzkrieg will be upon us soon.
Is there an LGBT synonym for kapo? Cohn, maybe? That’s what Peter Thiel is.
rikyrah
@Skippy-san:
Phuck em.
I’ll post this again:
Most Americans who voted in 2016 DID NOT vote for this. And, I don’t give a shyt if a majority of HIS voters are OK with the horrificness of the past 8 days, I and millions more are not. My parents lived in a Police State known as the Jim Crow South. I have no intentions of doing the same.
dogwood
@mai naem mobile:
It’s 44 excluding Sanders and King.
Yutsano
@Immanentize: If Massachusetts didn’t have two great Senators already I’d be pushing him that route.
Groom him Mass Dems. You have the technology.
bemused
@VOR:
Sure is but worth a call, imo. Aside from the lying, Emmer patting our heads, downplaying the ramifications and saying, don’t worry kiddies really pissed me off.
Tilda Swintons Bald Cap
@The Moar You Know: Bingo !
sukabi
@Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes: don’t know about the first, but on the second he’s come out and flatly stated he’s never changed a diaper, or any other thing associated with raising children, including his own…and with that admission, it’s a sure bet the rest of the things on that second list are also for “other people” to do.
Barbara
@Jeffro: Their desire for sowing chaos with loud taunts and threats, being quickly whipsawed into damage control mode, suggests the opposite of stealthy planning (except in short term tactics — like withholding your real plans from people who might offer valid criticisms and waiting until Friday night to announce that it will go into effect immediately). It’s hard to really know if there is any method to this madness (other than whatever tickles President Bannon’s amusement). He has gotten a lot of mileage out of twisting people’s arms, like Carrier or Ford, but eventually, they will have to do what is in their shareholders’ best interests when it becomes clear that there is no real policy, just constant confusion, misdirection and half-baked proposals. This is not going to spur anyone to invest millions of dollars bringing manufacturing back to the United States. What if he does impose tariffs — the response will be counter-tariffs, and you will be stuck with having invested gazillions of dollars in a plant that has become internationally uncompetitive.
Timurid
At this point we may be only weeks, if not days from the moment of truth.
It will start when Trump does something obviously impeachable (probably ordering people to violate court orders) or the inter-agency investigation comes back with a smoking gun. At that point the media start talking about Watergate and everyone takes to Twitter wanting to know if it can be impeachment time now? Then Trump calls a press conference. He stands at the podium with Ryan and McConnell behind him. He calls out the court order and/or investigation as illegal and fake. He then reminds his audience that no court can judge the President. Only Congress can do that. Ryan and McConnell then take their turns at the podium, reaffirming the Republican Caucus’ support of Trump and stating categorically that there are no grounds for impeachment. Then the three of them shake hands and walk off stage, arm in arm…
If that happens, what comes next?
XTPD
@Skippy-san: Plausible, but my impression/hope is that he miscalculated badly.
kate p
An old neighbors is one of those translators. He hung Iraqi and US flags at his house. You would never meet a better and kinder person, great neighbor, the first on to text a greeting on Christmas morning. He moved to Arizona in 2017 and is now getting ready to deploy again as a translator. I messaged him yesterday to check on him and his family. Here is the kicker – he and his wife voted for Trump and now they see he might make “many mistakes”. Do you think? I know the Hispanic population of AZ sort of freaked them out but how he would be so blind to Trump’s hatred of Muslims is beyond me. I guess you should never underestimate the power of fear and hatred of the “other”, you never imagine that you might be one of them.
rikyrah
@The Moar You Know:
Which is why there should not be one single solitary phuck given about what they feel and how they think.
jonas
I presume this probably confirms what Silverman was saying here the other day: Mattis agreed to serve as DOD secretary not out of any particular loyalty to Trump, but basically to try to insulate the services from Trump’s worst impulses. Problem is, if push comes to shove and Bannon and Trump want to embark on some spectacular misadventure and Mattis tells them to back off, who’s going to win that pissing match?
The day Mattis tenders his resignation will be really interesting.
Gravenstone
@XTPD: I’d settle for putting him in long term traction. As a warning to all the others in the maladministration.
The Moar You Know
@XTPD: He doesn’t work that way, and I’d like to see you promptly banned and get a visit from the Secret Service for posting a comment like that.
Tilda Swintons Bald Cap
@Timurid: Nothing.
Gravenstone
@Major Major Major Major: Sounds more like Pence’s work, but with Trump as a willing accomplice/facilitator.
Shell
Almost afraid to ask but how is Walter. Seem to remebr a past post that his health wasn’t that good.
As to the posts rhetorical question. How do they like Trump now? His rabid base must be eating this up with a spoon. What do they care about Iraqi translators or the Stock Market. The important thing is “In your face, Libtards!”
Cannot believe that its been a year since Scalias death. Wasn’t there something Obama could’ve done to push his candidate forward?
Barbara
@rikyrah: I agree. This kind of culture war zeitgeist appeals to Bannon, he probably feels like a puppet master pulling strings, but anyone who has lived and worked in Washington knows that even the most popular president (which Trump isn’t) only has so much political capital to spend. There are no doubt some people who have secure jobs who will be endlessly delighted with hippie punching. But others who were counting on Trump to focus like a laser on bringing prosperity back to the heartland might get tired of the constant effort to distract them with other things.
The Moar You Know
@rikyrah: That’s where I’m at. Obviously not everyone here agrees, but they’re deluded. You’re never going to get these people to respect you, never mind work with you, so you might as well stop trying and just proceed without care of their delicate fee-fees.
Timurid
@Tilda Swintons Bald Cap:
Then it will be all over, in less than a year.
Once the blank check is written, 2018 and 2020 will be rigged beyond recognition.
dogwood
@The Moar You Know:
I second that.
Gravenstone
@Timurid:
Civil war. Not hyperbole.
Lizzy L
@The Moar You Know: Seconded.
ETA: Oops, too late. I support your position and wish to subscribe to your newsletter.
Major Major Major Major
@Gravenstone: I agree, but the impact will be the same so to a large degree I don’t fucking care.
@Lizzy L: nth-ed.
trollhattan
@Shell:
There was an update last week, with pics of a content looking Walter, including lounging with cute little boys. IIRC he’s doing as well as can be hoped considering, and is generally enjoying his vastly improved life. Unknown how much further the cancer may have spread since last checkup.
Should be able to find the posting by the pics..
The Moar You Know
@Shell: Walter’s savior is debit, haven’t seen him today. It’s day to day. Walter’s on his last year (and probably his last season) no matter what. Got the arthritis, which is what took out my old lab, and has a bone tumor, which is not good as those are painful. You won’t know it until it gets real bad, labs have a pain tolerance like few other animals on the planet. But he is fed, clean, and loved and surrounded by kids and he is obviously very happy. John and debit did God’s work here, no question (says the very unsure agnostic).
p.a.
Earliest known human ancestor was Republican:
link
trollhattan
@p.a.: [RIMSHOT!] (Yes, I wrote “shot”)
Chip Daniels
@Skippy-san:
See, the trouble with wanting to drive a wedge between “middle America” and lefties, is you have to do stuff that ONLY pisses off the lefties.
When you are pissing off Mormons, evangelicals, veterans, soccer moms, career midlevel bureaucrats throughout the entire country, its hard to make a convincing case that the remaining 27% of 4Chan Pepe the Frog troglodytes are the “real America”.
kindness
This talk of imminent impeachment…???? Please people, don’t fly with this one. Until the Republican led House votes for impeachment and the Republican led Senate takes up the case and has a trial, it ain’t happening. It won’t happen, not until after the 2018 elections and it’ll only happen then if Democrats take BOTH the House & the Senate.
Until then Republicans are running this show and won’t stop because this is the first time they’ve been able to think they can get all the things on their wish list checked off. That is all they care about. They don’t care about Trump.
Mary G
@rikyrah: This is why I am more hopeful than most, while still appalled. Bannon, like Putin, doesn’t seem to really get Americans. Every heinous action is making me more engaged, more adamantly opposed, more energized. I think this is true of a lot of the left.
Shalimar
@Major Major Major Major: The word you’re looking for regarding Thiel is sociopath. He doesn’t identify with the suffering of any class because he’s above all of us.
Miss Bianca
@kate p: I have to admit to being rendered virtualy speechless by your story.
Lizzy L
@Major Major Major Major: Can’t get to the link. It would not surprise me at all if 45 were to try to undo all of Obama’s LGBTQ regulations, but who is this person and why should I believe a word he says?
Barbara
@Mary G: He also has not yet taken away the health care insurance for between 20 and 30 million people.
Mary G
Less than one hour to Darrell Issa’s constituent town telephone hall. Odds on whether I will be allowed to speak?
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@kindness: are people talking about impeachment? I’d be surprised, pleasantly so, to see Senate hearings.
This is why we won’t see impeachment, until these numbers change dramatically
Jeffro
@Barbara:
You know, Kay keeps raising this point – they’re total incompetents, and this is what incompetents do. If they weren’t so malicious and aligned with Putin/Nazis, it’d be even more obvious. They don’t have the faintest clue about how to get things done. No wonder Trump would have been better investing his inheritance than actively “managing” it.
The Moar You Know
@kindness: My poor dad, a lifelong Republican turned hardcore Never Trumper, is pinning his hopes on impeachment. He does not understand what has happened to his party. He’s not stupid and not senile, but the GOP in his head is the GOP of the 1970s, not the late 2010s. I ascribe that purely to the very human practice of not digging for dirt in that which you’ve found to be safe for your entire life.
I’m trying to gently let him know that this will not happen, explaining it as you do is pretty good.
Major Major Major Major
@Lizzy L: the order (which is in line with what Trump has said) would basically attempt to institute the “my business can do whatever I say my religion says” First Amendment Restoration Act, which Trump has also said he wants to sign (tho he said he wanted it on the 20th). Joe. My. God. is a well-known gay blogger.
@Shalimar: so, Cohn works, then.
Yarrow
Even Republicans are getting nervous.
Shalimar
@Lizzy L: Not just undo Obama. The link says there is an extensive EO in the works legalizing discrimination against LGBTQ people nationwide. It will undo what every liberal state has done, in addition to Supreme Court rulings. When asked for comment on it, Spicer said he wouldn’t get ahead of the president, which strongly implies they are working on at least something.
rikyrah
@Major Major Major Major:
I dunno. Call him a gay slave catcher.
Mnemosyne
@Barbara:
People in Idaho showed up at the Boise airport to protest Trump’s EO. IDAHO!
West of the Rockies (been a while)
Any update on Assad? Where did the story originate?
Jeffro
@Timurid: @Tilda Swintons Bald Cap: @Gravenstone:
Didn’t Adam do a post a few days ago about not constantly freaking out and assuming that the end of the Republic is upon us? Might be time for a re-read.
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Remember: enraged and energized D base + independents (and no Stein or Johnson around to siphon votes) + disgusted Rs = good chance of a D landslide in 2018. Trump’s popularity is already cratering here on Day 10 or 11, we have another 700 days to go until those elections.
Also folks don’t forget: it was hard to tie Rs to Trump in 2016. He wasn’t president then, technically still hadn’t done anything, and there was a lot of “I don’t take him literally” from idiot voters. Well now we know to take him literally, right? This is why it’s so important that we oppose him in everything.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Good god
ETA: I think this explains the above, too
Miss Bianca
@Yarrow: I, for one, would like to see that legislation extended to Congress critters. “Now, Mr. Chaffetz, regarding this obsession you seem to have with Secretary Clinton’s emails…”
Brachiator
@Shalimar:
Tee up some Log Cabin Republicans to explain why this EO won’t be that bad.
Shalimar
@Major Major Major Major: Yeah, Cohn works, though I’m sure Thiel thinks he is a much higher class of people than Roy Cohn.
edit to add: In other words, I’m pretty sure Peter Thiel would say you should call every other evil LGBTQ asshole like him a Thiel, not a Cohn.
EBT
@Shalimar: I would like to say that California’s legislature would fight and ignore this every step of the way, but I haven’t see them say anything about the Muslim Ban as a body yet.
Jeffro
@Yarrow: Yup. Nukes are very bipartisan when it comes to who they incinerate.
These scummy Rs think nothing can touch them and their family no matter what Trump does. But then they realize…
Another Scott
One for Richard/David: GovExec:
If anyone is reading this and hasn’t signed up, what are you waiting for??
Cheers,
Scott.
Mary G
Senate Democrats grow balls and ovaries! Unanimous consent refused, so vote to approve Munchkin is delayed. Keep it up! No consent to anything, ever.
Jeffro
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Good, go for it Trump. Let’s see what Congress thinks as the protests grow. Let’s see how much business that Trump hotel in DC does with 24/7 screaming protestors and people calling non-stop (fair game, since Trump won’t divest).
Jeffro
@Mary G: Hey, why not insult Schumer’s tears again, Trump? LOL
Brachiator
@Jeffro:
Right now, Democrats offer nothing except “we ain’t Trump,” so independents and Stein and Johnson (or their new counterparts) will still be in play. And there is a new, young generation of tech libertarians and other libertarians lite who do not look to Democrats to ride to their rescue. And Disgusted Rs have shown a reluctance to fully embrace the Democrats, because they reject the D economic and social platforms.
Lizzy L
@Major Major Major Major: I’ve tracked down some sources who are confirming this, so thanks.
Over the years I accumulated many political buttons, some from the 1960s. I am not a collector, so several years ago I tossed them all out, except for one, a small ceramic pink triangle, dating from the 1970s. If/when 45 signs his order I will wear it daily. Time to represent.
Gravenstone
@Jeffro: Oh, I’m hardly freaking out. I’m more or less resigned to a lot of institutional carnage before this comes to a head. What lies on the far side of that … we’ll all have to see. We can work to shape the outcome to our benefit, but the cost is likely to be unpleasant.
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
@Brachiator:
In the alternate BerenstEIN Bears universe, Congress is debating about the merits of paid maternity leave, the Berniebots are upset that Hillary is shooting for a $12/hr minimum wage as opposed to $15/hr, and there are at least 18 diaries up at Kos about the neoliberal corporate shill she has nominated to SCOTUS.
schrodingers_cat
@Jeffro: Brietbart meme, protests are sponsored by the MB. I am seeing it in the Twitterstreams of immigration attorneys.
Lizzy L
@Brachiator: An EO cannot undo a Supreme Court ruling.
Gravenstone
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Trump going slower makes a certain amount of sense. Given his reality TV background, he probably wanted to milk the impacts and resulting media exposure. Of course, it is a given he assumed the majority of the exposure would be positive and flattering of him.
Barbara
@Brachiator: There will be more chaos and confusion, but the president can only dictate policy on this kind of stuff in a fairly limited way — mostly, federal contractors, assuming that there is no specific congressional action on the subject. So he can undo Obama’s EOs that expanded rights with respect to federal contractors. I mean, that’s not good — not at all — but this EO stuff is mostly showboating (with some really grave consequences for some). I honestly think the right response to most of this (pending having seen the order) is — “well, you know this is mostly illegal and the ACLU and everyone else is going to work to make sure your neo-fascism doesn’t hurt anyone while we go to court to get it reversed or limited, but tell me again, how does this bring manufacturing jobs back to America?”
Steeplejack (phone)
@schrodingers_cat:
What is “MB” here?
Sloane Ranger
Just to update everyone, the debate in the UK parliament on the Dump’s travel ban I posted about in a previous thread has just ended with a unanimous vote in support of the motion that the ban is divisive, discriminatory and counter productive. The government has indicated that they will still press ahead with the State visit but Labour has promised to oppose it and may be able to syphon off enough Tory backbench votes to succeed. Given the comments from across the House the chances are they will cancel any plans for him to address both Houses of Parliament. If they do try to go ahead with it, they will lose bigly.
The petition now has well over a million signatories and the number is still growing. The demo in London against the ban attracted thousands of participants.
If Dump does come here, the protests will bring London to a stop.
gvg
@The Moar You Know: I think you should consider that it’s a valid question, not a wish of goodness. Trump is pushing people and some of them are going to snap. I have been wondering if the fantasy living idiot really would Order nukes used if his feelings got hurt…….and I honestly fear that and honestly have been wondering if anyone in his own circle would stop him. 25th amendment would be too slow in a countdown. This guy is seriously scary. He is already breaking the law. He doesn’t actually understand that he shouldn’t do certain things and its a problem.
So people are panicking. they should have acted months ago and just voted better but they didn’t. the nuke issue is my particular problem.
NotMax
Gads, it’s like a world wherein the only permitted text is Those Were The Days: The Dark Ages, Misunderstood Pinnacle of Humankind.
@Major Major Major Major
Catfish?
(Bottom feeder.)
Ian G.
@jonas:
I don’t see the military turning into the Special Republican Guard (pun intended). Mattis isn’t going to let it follow Bannon off a cliff. I really don’t know what happens, but since we’re already well past anything we’ve seen in this country post-1865, I’m almost hoping for a military coup at this point.
schrodingers_cat
@Steeplejack (phone): Muslin Brotherhood.
Ian G.
@Steeplejack (phone):
Muslim Brotherhood, I imagine.
The women’s march was bought and paid for by George Soros, dontcha know.
NotMax
@Gravenstone
February and May are sweeps months.
Just sayin’.
EBT
@Barbara: They will find a way to go after us trans people who have updated information with social security.
Barbara
@Jeffro: It’s not just nukes. Imposing a 20% tariff on Mexican imports or disallowing the cost of imported goods to determine your income are like a stake in the heart of thousands of American businesses, including manufacturers. There are things that could be done to encourage American manufacturing, but that would take time and effort and convening people who know the subject to make recommendations about policies that are especially counterproductive to keeping manufacturing in the U.S., or bringing it here (and even that won’t bring in huge numbers of jobs), but Trump has ADD when it comes to real policy.
schrodingers_cat
@EBT: The enemies list is growing with no end in sight.
Chip Daniels
@schrodingers_cat:
Hmm, between Soros, the MB, and the secret million dollar bank accounts that every Jew supposedly has, I am so going to clean up on protesting!
Ca-Ching!
The Moar You Know
@gvg: Doesn’t matter. Post stupid shit like that online and many three-letter agencies might decide to come and have a look through the records of every post here, find out who’s been posting, and then everyone gets on a watchlist or worse. Posts like that literally put every single person here in danger, and the meathead who posted that knows it.
Peale
@Barbara: I have to wait to see what this actually does. Its not like the LGBT groups don’t have their own set of civil rights lawyers to work on this. So it isn’t a matter of taking anything away from other groups. That’s the good thing. I don’t think that there’s a “prioritization” fight ahead. Nor a “who was hurt more” fight. I don’t expect the rollback to be to 1950, but messing with adoption has me concerned. The big fight during the next four years I think will be re litigating LGBT protections in the Army and lots of threats to Marriage around the edges until the GOP can replace Kennedy or one of the liberal judges.
EBT
@schrodingers_cat: Tomorrow night I really want to know what that gay black adopted evangelical kid who was super pro trump on NPR back in like March is thinking.
Chip Daniels
@schrodingers_cat:
See thats the thing!
The way to implement the “First they came for…” strategy, is to well, come for groups one at a time, not all in 8 days.
Peale
@Chip Daniels: I know. Its like they think we disappear once they harm us. Like they think they’re Bruce Lee and we’re all the hapless minions who get punched once and fall down. Its action star fantasy EO action.
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
@rikyrah:
To the the god-fearing white conservative Christians out there, I always have this to say, in honor of the absence of Political Correctness since Trump’s election: “fuck your feelings, snowflake”.
EBT
@Peale: donnie texas ranger?
Barbara
@EBT: EBT, I want to discourage fatalism, and mostly, as I have done for my own mental health, I want to encourage people to wait to see what bad things are really in the pipeline before they expend too much mental energy, so that they don’t get too depleted by worrying about what might happen. Yet, I know that there is a degree of vulnerability that someone like me will never feel. We need layers of protection — people like me to stand up for you. I hope you know you aren’t alone.
MisterForkbeard
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: The problem is that this number won’t drop significantly without Republicans publicly attacking Trump. Until that happens, tribalism will keep Republicans in line.
That probably won’t happen, but until the well probably see a slow erosion of support. Nobody likes being associated with a loser, and if the constant approbation and condescension keeps up, they’ll stop being so into him. He might hit 40% or so.
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
@jonas:
Mattis doesn’t have to resign. He can always say that the order is illegal, and that he will neither implement it nor remain silent on it.
What Trump’s praetorian guard does in that eventuality is anyone’s guess.
Brachiator
@Lizzy L:
Another poster made this claim. I would not comment on the EO until it is made public.
@Barbara:
Not entirely true with respect to gay rights. Again, not knowing what the EO says, Trump could give the states more latitude with respect to bathroom BS, respecting people’s rights to be anti-gay bigots, etc.
Also, the IRS currently recognizes gay marriage in all the states, using common-law marriage as a precedent. However, this is not a result of any Supreme Court ruling, but the IRS taking following the lead of the Obama administration pro-gay policy. This could easily be reversed by Trump.
cosima
@Sloane Ranger: Ta. I did wonder how that went (have been out for a good bit of the evening). I got the petition in my email inbox from a friend last night, and by this morning it had more than doubled.
I’m not a citizen, so didn’t sign. The wording on it was quite British (in terms of the objection). I do wonder where he’ll be at in terms of the power-grab when the state visit actually happens — maybe not fit for polite company before the week is out, leading to a more acrimonious debate?
Barbara
@Brachiator: Based on what he has already tried to do, my only point is that he is showing a penchant for issuing EOs in which his reach for effect exceeds the grasp of his actual authority, whether he knows that or not. Yeah, of course, we have to see what he actually tries to do.
SgrAstar
@Shalimar: Huh? The Executive can not “undo” SCOTUS rulings. Period.
Major Major Major Major
@Brachiator: IF the Indiana-style ‘first amendment’/’religious freedom restoration act’ bill goes federal, then it will barely matter what federal law is when it comes to certain things, since (small/closely-held) businesses can just use their deeply-held religious beliefs to not serve gays, blacks, women, etc. I’m sure that Hobby Lobby can easily be wedged in here as precedent ensuring that right.
That won’t affect my tax filing status but it certainly will affect my actual lived life. Now, that requires the force of law and not just an EO to be fully enacted, but he can cause plenty of damage just by the signing the EO, especially with trans people since federal rights for trans people are not exactly well established, to say the least.
EBT
@SgrAstar: “The court has made it’s ruling, now let them enforce it.”
Brachiator
@Major Major Major Major:
I think, but am not totally certain, that Trump could create IRS mischief for gay people with an EO. But again, we will see if something is actually issued.
Sloane Ranger
@cosima: I believe UK residents are allowed to sign the petition. You might like to check.
I’ve just clicked over to the BBC and someone has just said that Dump has indicated he might widen the ban to include more countries. If he does it will significantly undermine the Government’s argument in favour of the State Visit so it will be interesting to see the reaction.
Mnemosyne
@Shalimar:
The term “Quisling” developed because that was the actual last name of the guy who betrayed Norway to the Nazis. So I’m perfectly fine turning Thiel’s name into a similar byword.
The Moar You Know
@Mnemosyne: Vidkun Quisling. And he was a nasty, stupid piece of work.
NickM
@Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes: That’s so funny – I’ve wondered the same thing. Has he ever made a sacrifice for anyone, even a family member, even something small that we don’t think much about like cooking a meal, changing a diaper, calming a child, etc. Probably not.
NotMax
@The Moar You Know
Norway’s history is checkered, to say the least. The constitution written and adopted during Norway’s very short run as an independent country in the 19th century specifically banned Jesuits and Jews.
/history interlude
Aleta
I have no trouble believing that Bannon is aware and OK with the increased chance of violence his actions have brought, within the US and Europe and to the US military overseas. I have no trouble considering that he has prepared to take advantage of any violence he provokes by responding with force. And that he may view increased hostility of whites toward immigrants as a tool he can work with.
It’s not that big a step for a mind like Bannon’s to move from using race war and religious war as a campaign tool+
(+Remember when Trump tried to raise suspicions about Obama’s connections to ‘radical Islam’ and his associates suggested Huma Abdeen could be a double agent or something?)
to using them as tools to put fear into immigrant communities. To use confusion and demoralizing treatment to make them more submissive to orders and restrictions. And Trump is actually proud of using humiliation and status to make women and men submissive.
Of course there are mistakes and miscalculations in whatever they do. I have faith in the smart people who are using institutional forces against them. But overall, as others have said, I don’t see this as the work of dumb, inexperienced people.
Mnemosyne
@Sloane Ranger:
Random question I asked in another thread: does the Queen have any power to refuse to meet with Trump, or is it required if the government tells her it’s an official State Visit?
jake the antisoshul soshulist
@Major Major Major Major:
Roy Cohn also, too.
TriassicSands
@Mnemosyne:
The Brits, if they were smart, would deny Trump entry into their country because of the significant terrorist threat he poses. Every time he opens his mouth he incites more violence and recruits more radicals to the cause of jihad. He should be restricted — worldwide — to virtual visits.
TriassicSands
Meanwhile, AF Conway laments that not a single journalist or pundit has been fired for being mean to Trump.
I know that all presidents have their disagreements with the media and journalists, but I don’t remember Obama or any of his representatives ever suggesting in any way that journalists should be fired for treating Obama unfairly. Neither do I recall any Obama administration officials telling the media to just shut up and listen (to the president). Is my memory faulty?
Sloane Ranger
@Mnemosyne: In theory the Queen has a lot of power but if she were to actually exercise it in anything other than the most exceptional circumstances it would lead to a constitutional crises. For instance, there is no formal requirement for her to sign bills into law but no sovereign has refused to do so for over 200 years and would be seen, even by those who opposed the law as a direct challenge to the democratically elected government. Refusing to meet with Trump when the Prime Minister has offered him a State Visit would be the same.
If the Queen really didn’t want to meet the man it’s more likely she will develop a diplomatic illness. In that case Prince Charles would sub for her but Trump has apparently said he doesn’t want to meet with Charles so …
NeenerNeener
@Sloane Ranger: Then can Wills and Harry arrange to be conveniently out of the country during his visit?
Sloane Ranger
As we don’t know the date of the visit and Royal calendars fill up early and quickly the answer is Yes.
THe point is that Trump doesn’t get to decide who his host is. That is decided by protocol.
I should add that this is all hypothetical. In reality the Queen would grit her teeth and do her duty as she has had to do before when forced bu previous governments to host such charming individuals as Robert Mugabe and NicholaI Cesesscu (unless she genuinely WAS ill, which is not impossible given her age and the fact she was ill over Christmas).
Mnemosyne
@Sloane Ranger:
Thanks! I do wonder how this would play out, because Trump is not the leader of a developing country or one behind the Iron Curtain — he represents Great Britain’s closest ally. That makes the stakes for accepting him much, much higher.