This photo, from commenter msdc, is from this weekend’s DC march against the refugee ban. I’ll have more of his photos and story later. I thought the photo dovetailed nicely with an email request I received.
Lizzy L asked to share this thought-provoking piece and I’m happy to do so:
Hello:
What we are experiencing right now is a GOP blitzkrieg, concocted by the Heritage Foundation and Paul Ryan and fronted by Trump. That all the cuts and executive orders are coming fast, intense and extreme is not a surprise. It is smart strategy on the GOP’s part.
It seems impossible to counter all this stuff, while trying to tank Trump’s nominations as well as engaging in perhaps-not-so-wise-right-now-as-it-can-wait campaigns like investigating Trump’s taxes and foolhardy-pie-in-the-sky things like impeachment. You aren’t imagining anything: It is impossible to stop all of it. This sucks but you must accept it. There are going to be losses, we knew that. Now they are coming. Hang in there. Step back and look at what they are going after.
Cutting the budgets of the NEA and NEH, muzzling the EPA, USDA, and Park Service, etc. are all relatively minor attacks. They might sting and that is exactly the point. Who supports the NEA and NEH? Liberals and people on the Left. Most Americans don’t care or even know that these agencies exist. These attacks are aimed at our hearts. Trump and GOP don’t care about these agencies. They want to demoralize us. They want us to feel defeat after defeat as soon as possible. They want us to get fatigued and give up.
If you care about this country, if you are in for the long haul, you absolutely must let these defeats go. Yes, you can care. Yes, you can get angry. But don’t rest on the anger. Try to use it for energy, for motivation, but that is all. Make a note of it – we will rebuild – and let it go. There are much bigger things on the GOP’s agenda – getting rid of Medicare, Social Security, stripping down government to everything but defense and police functions, and selling off whatever is public. They also want to put as much in the way between us and our rights, including voting rights, as possible. These are the things to watch and fight. While we were fretting about cabinet appointments before inauguration, Congress devalued public lands. That is the first step to selling them off and allowing mining in National Parks. Selling off what is public to corporations and the mega-wealthy is what really matters to them.
Please note that I am not saying that the NEA and NEH or muzzling public agencies does not matter. It does and we must make noise about it, but we also must look at what the GOP’s fundamental goals are, realize the motives behind what they are doing, act on what we have the power to change, and be mindful of how we act and react. These people are not acting willy-nilly. As flaky and screwed-up as Trump is/seems, the people behind him are not. They are rational. They are professionals. They are tacticians. They know exactly what they are doing and exactly how to kill our spirit. This is basic strategy: Use the enemy to destroy the enemy (Sun Tzu). They are trying to destroy our resistance by creating frustration and despair, and letting that do the job. Know that. Drill that into your brain. Come back to this when you are feeling defeated. This insight in one of the most important things to know.
Scott Soriano, 1/26/17
Open thread.
Shalimar
Impossible to counter, but lots of people who had no reason to hate Trump before have reason to hate him now. Every single person in the country knows someone in one of the classes of people the administration is marginalizing.
Humboldtblue
Huh, it seems even people who support the GOP — party over principle — need health care too.
Interesting data from Kaiser.
rikyrah
Trump’s Cruel Muslim Ban Highlights Need for SCOTUS Blockade
by David Atkins
January 29, 2017 9:00 AM
Yesterday’s news was as dramatic as it was fast. Trump issued an executive order banning immigration from certain Muslim countries–but not from ones where he has business connections. The result was chaos, confusion and catastrophe. Hundreds of legal residents and immigrants from doctors and scholars to vetted refugees sat in limbo both here in the United States and around the world. As airports acorss the country turned into a real-time political morality play, civil liberties groups began to issue legal challenges even as spontaneous protests grew in size.
Finally, several judges issued stays on the blanket deportations as it became obvious that the policy was not only cruel and unAmerican but flatly illegal. Unfortunately, the judicial rulings don’t actually allow these unfortunate souls to leave the airport, so they remain stuck at airports until the legal system can work out what is to be done.
And now, even as some Republicans slowly begin to criticize the Trump Administration’s needless outlawry and cruelty and bigger civil protests are planned, it becomes obvious how important it will be for Democrats to do all they can to stop Trump’s Supreme Court nominee for as long as humanly possible.
It is very likely that the preponderance of federal judges will side against Trump on the ban. Trump’s excuse that he can supposedly restrict whatever immigration he likes if he feels there’s a vague terrorist threat is a flimsy pretext to get around a very clear 1965 law preventing discrimination based on national origin. But the Supreme Court might be another matter if Trump is allowed to seat another justice on it, depending on how justices Roberts and Kennedy decide to rule in the era of Trump. Split 4-4 decisions affirm the rulings of lower courts, which will be a stopgap against aggressive white nationalist barbarism of Trump and especially of Steve Bannon, who apparently has full run of the White House. Assuming, that is, that Trump doesn’t style himself after Andrew Jackson and simply refuse to obey the judicial branch’s orders, precipitating a Constitutional crisis in only his second week.
Republicans in Congress already stole a Supreme Court nomination from former President Obama by denying Merrick Garland a hearing for the better part of a year. Senate Democrats must show President Trump the same level of discourtesy and disrespect. The safety and security of the Republic, as well as the fates of thousands of innocent souls, depends on it.
rikyrah
Is Steve Bannon Trying to Instigate a Constitutional Crisis?
by David Atkins
January 29, 2017 8:42 PM
In 1832, Justice John Marshall ruled that the state of Georgia could not grant licenses for non-Native Americans to settle on federally created Native American land. President Andrew Jackson, a populist white supremacist who despised and murdered Native Americans in the thousands, is reported to have said in response, “”John Marshall has made his decision; now let him enforce it!”
Donald Trump’s closest adviser Steve Bannon has reportedly been the lead actor responsible for many of Trump’s recent executive orders, including the illegal ban on immigration from large parts of the Muslim world. Bannon is a white nationalist, the ideological architect of Trump’s xenophobic populism, and a big fan of Andrew Jackson. Bannon sees in Trump another Jackson, and even hung a portrait of Jackson in the Oval Office. Some historians are pushing back on the comparison, but clearly the current White House is trying to create a 21st century version of what they perceive to be Jacksonian populism.
Andrew Jackson’s confrontational attitude toward the courts, particularly on matters of race, war, and human decency, bears particular scrutiny. Jackson hated the courts, making every attempt to limit their power and even instigate clashes with the judiciary. Jackson felt that judges had no authority to place any limits on majoritarian rule. Both states and the federal government attempted to nullify or simply refuse to enforce judicial rulings, and various crises were only resolved when majorities who favored court decisions protecting minority interests once again won elected office and created a government culture in which the judiciary was better respected.
Fast forward to the recent Muslim ban. Bannon had to know that the courts would immediately step in to halt the deportations on multiple legal grounds. But not only did Bannon seek that confrontation, he did so in the most provocative way possible: it was Bannon’s idea to overrule the Department of Homeland Security and include green card holders in the immigration ban.
And, in fact, a Constitutional crisis has already arisen: some border patrol have been defying court orders by detaining legal residents without access to attorneys, in spite of direct personal pressure from United States senators and armies of lawyers.
It’s possible that this chaos is simply a result of overzealousness and incompetence on the part of the Administration. But Bannon is known to be a cunning a strategist who doesn’t show his hand and doesn’t like to openly talk about his tactics. His actions are seldom random and always deliberate.
We do know that Bannon implemented a highly controversial, high-profile order that he knew to be illegal and particularly cruel, but of great importance to his white nationalist base. We know that on the same day he placed himself on the national security council, removing the joint chiefs from the room. We know that Bannon idolizes Andrew Jackson and sees himself as above the courts.
We don’t yet know the Trump Administration’s response to the court rulings. But it’s worth considering the possibility that Trump’s closest adviser is actively seeking a Constitutional crisis that tests the power of the judiciary to stop any potential actions by the Executive Branch.
This is a very dangerous time for the country.
Update: Donald Trump’s team has removed The Judicial Branch from the White House website. This is not a joke.
Major Major Major Major
Stay pissed, indeed.
I feel like there’s two or three parts to the Blitzkrieg, though. For one, you have the Ryan/Heritage/standard GOP wish list of tax cuts/reform, looting Medicaid, selling off public parks and the BLM, turning public schools into vouchers for the best (Christian) religious education money can buy, and so forth. Then you have the Taiwan nationalists/invade Iran types, which I imagine Paul Ryan doesn’t give a shit about except insofar as the import/export situation affects the bottom line for his tax schemes. Then you have the authoritarian, anti-black, anti-Muslim, anti-woman, anti-gay theocratic Herrenvolk takeover, who want plenty of sweet government welfare as long as it’s for them.
This is the first time I’ve seen all three being pressed at once, but they aren’t all usually the same people, given their inherent contradictions. At least not until Trump, who apparently and somehow wants all three.
So it’s “The GOP” plan insofar as it’s the three legs of their stool, but only one of those legs is actually supposed to be used at a time! Hopefully that means it falls down.
rikyrah
Bannon’s Self-Fulfilling Prophecy: A Global War With Islam
by Nancy LeTourneau
January 30, 2017 9:20 AM
It is now obvious that in the battle for power in the Trump White House, Steve Bannon is winning. In just 10 days we’ve seen that he:
What most of us know about Bannon is that he is the former director of Breitbart News and has strong anti-globalist, pro-nationalist views with ties to white supremacists and anti-semites. In light of Bannon’s authorship of Trump’s recent executive order banning refugees and immigrants from some Middle Eastern Muslim countries, it is also important to note that he is (like many in Trump’s inner circle) an Islamophobe. Take a look at some excerpts from a speech he gave to a conference inside the Vatican in 2014 where he talks about the secularization of the West.
………………….
Bannon is doing the same thing fascists have done throughout history – use fear as a tool to mobilize nationalism. While it is true that ISIS must be defeated, to assume that they represent the beginning stages of a global war is absurd.
So how does Bannon inspire the kind of fear that would spark the kind of nationalist movements in the white (predominantly Christian) countries of the Norther Hemisphere that dominated the globe for centuries amidst a rising tide of economic expansion in the world of black/brown people? You begin by creating a fear of immigrants across our Southern borders via a confrontation with Mexico and extend that to a fear of Muslim terrorists. That fear drives policies that lay the battle lines for the kind of global war Bannon is predicting, and it becomes a self-fulling prophecy.
………………..
If anything is designed to ignite WWIII, it is the actions of this administration. As Josh Marshall points out:
At the heart of what is dangerous about these people stands Steve Bannon – who seems to be calling the shots right now and is eager to promote a global war with Islam as a rallying cry for white nationalism.
JMG
Steve Bannon is not a cunning strategist. This weekend proves that. He’s a nihilist with a gift for sucking up to a narcissist. Paul Ryan has an ambitious agenda to destroy the public welfare. But that would be happening under Presidents Cruz, Rubio, Bush, Christie, etc. Trump’s a different level of danger because he is a mentally ill ignoramus. What that conservative lawyer Ben Wittes said is true. It will be malevolence tempered by incompetence. The latter is actually more dangerous.
Jinchi
Democrats should consider the idea that eminent domain power can work both ways. They plan to privatize the roads, the National Parks, the nation’s infrastructure. These are exactly what eminent domain was designed for. Instead of seizing a person’s house to give to a private company, promise to seize back the private road that used to be an interstate highway.
rikyrah
California Secession is a Terrible Idea
by David Atkins
January 29, 2017 8:00 AM
As a Californian, the idea of seceding from the union can be tempting. We’re the world’s sixth largest economy, home to the country’s largest agriculture sector, Silicon Valley, Hollywood, and a thriving economy, diverse in its people and its production. We also voted for Clinton over Trump by 30 points, with a couple more to Jill Stein for good measure. Our state has supermajority Democratic control at all levels of government, with no statewide Republican officials in office and a decimated GOP bench. And we are ground zero for the legal resistance to Trump on immigration, healthcare, drug policy and much else. Most importantly, Californians only get back 79 cents for every dollar we send to the federal government, only to see red states who take the most from the federal government using our money elect Republicans who hate California and see themselves as ill-used John Galts.
It’s hard to blame many Californians for wanting to cut the chain and free ourselves from the yoke of those who despise us while taking advantage of us. That’s why a movement has grown to gather signatures to place California secession on the state ballot. But it’s a terrible idea.
First, the question of secession was settled militarily at Appomattox. Second, legal secession would be incredibly destructive both to California’s economy and to that of the rest of the United States. Third, the other western states along the Colorado River would doubtless use water rights to squeeze California even drier than it already is in revenge.
But most importantly, California is the moral vanguard of the nation. We are the guarantor of the nation’s future, its primary innovator and its demographic harbinger. Our shining example provides hope to the rest of the country that a better, more tolerant, more progressive future is possible–that America can not only survive but thrive in a society that is socially libertine, environmentally friendly, economically progressive and racially diverse.
rikyrah
Thanks for the post above. Will spread the word. I will say again: those protesters at the airports got me all in my feelings this weekend.
Betty
It appears that the spirit of resistance is infecting people around the world, and not just about the Trump Administration’s follies. Here in the Caribbean, there is some awakening and a growing belief that citizens can take on the powers that be. I’m hoping that power doesn’t get used in violence against the people, but the powerful won’t go without a fight.
schrodingers_cat
The immigration EO sent a bone-chilling message to everyone on a long term visa, immigrant as well as non-immigrant. That the regime in Washington considers you at best irrelevant and worthless and at worst an enemy. They have the power to fuck up your life and are willing to use it arbitrarily.This makes sense in the fringe immigrant hating circles where all immigrants do is mooch and are a burden. The reality however is far different. Just in terms of sheer numbers there are 13.3 million GC holders according to a 2012 DHS paper. There are many more on long term visas (student visas, work visas etc). Many of the GC holders are married to US citizens. This doesn’t include the undocumented/so-called illegal immigrants.
tobie
@JMG: Agreed. Steve Bannon is malevolent and will stop at nothing to see his nativist vision realized but he’s not nearly as effective as we had feared. Yes, he’s ascendent in the White House but the Trump White House is falling faster than a stone in public opinion. We need to keep up the pressure and Scott Soriano’s advice to keep our eyes on what the GOP’s true goals are is key.
OT but did anyone read John Judis’ post on TPM last night? What a stinking pile of shit. The guy has become a prime example of the nativist left. He withheld judgment of Trump because he thought Trump was going to stick it to the corporations that had decimated American manufacturing. What changed his mind was Trump’s obsession with crowd size and then the Muslim ban. The post was an astonishing collection of populist platitudes regarding the evils of trade. Judis was once a thoughtful writer. Now he peddles slogans.
zhena gogolia
Can’t get through to Ryan or McConnell. I think that’s a good sign.
sharl
Welp, we’ll see what the reality show visigoths do with this:
Creative destruction types might just see an opportunity here to make an example of some uppity, smarty-pants bureaucrats. It would certainly be red meat for the base. Hope I’m wrong, but they would see it as “cleaning up DC”, existing legal protections notwithstanding.
schrodingers_cat
As an addendum to #13. In fact spouses of American citizens make up the highest # of GCs issued every year. T should know that, two of his wives areforeign born.
NotMax
Yes, yes, yes, taking action in opposition here, now and in the immediate future is vital, important, honorable and humane.
It’s also not too early to begin planning for a coordinated worldwide day of action, solidarity and consciousness raising to let it be known that the cause will not fade away. Humbly propose October 10, the birthday of Fridtjof Nansen.
EZSmirkzz
Sounds about right to me. We are dealing with alternate human beings in Donald and the Trump Pets, so expect the sour notes dog whistled out of tune like his anti-semitic light Holocaust declaration on the same day as Muslim ban, while the intellectual giants of Paul, “I scrub clean pots and pans for votes,” Ryan and the Box Turtle connive with Bannon to destabilize America for the Kochs.
tobie
@sharl: Thanks for the alert about the Dissent Channel. I’m going to keep an eye on this today. My thoughts are with the career employees who drafted the memo. This takes courage given Trump’s autocratic bent.
Michael Bersin
I drove the hour and half to MCI (Kansas City International Airport) for the protest organized via social media. I arrived about twenty minutes before the 2:00 p.m. start time. People kept streaming in from the parking, the police carefully holding traffic so they could cross the street to the area outside Terminal C (international). At least a thousand people showed up.
Trump Muslim ban protest at Kansas City International Airport – January 29, 2017
sharl
@sharl: For anyone on Twitter who wants to (re)tweet this, here’s a link.
Redshift
Call your senators and demand they block everything. This lawlessness cannot stand.
Senate Democrats have the power to stop Trump. All they have to do is use it.
dogwood
I like the realism of this post. We ARE going to lose most of these battles. The thing that makes me most nervous about this resistance movement is the stuff I’m hearing about taking back Congress in ’18. In the Senate Republicans are defending 8 seats next year. We are defending 25. Our realistic goal is to minimize losses. Taking back the House is also unlikely, but taking back seats isn’t. Every seat we reclaim in ’18 put us in better shape for ’20. Republicans lost most of the big battles for decades, but they never retreated from the battlefield. So here they are, poised to fulfill their true vision for the country. That’s the one lesson I hope we can learn from these bastards; relentless perseverance is necessary over the long haul.
Percysowner
If you want to do a slow steady resistance I recommend 5 Calls. They list important issues of the day, give you the number of your Senator or Representative, and a script to use to talk about the various issue. I supposed to take 5 minutes. Today calling both my Senators, it took longer because both Portman’s and Brown’s voicemail boxes were full, so I had to find secondary numbers for them. After I got through it was fast and painless. So give it a try if you have 5 minutes to throw at an issue.
zhena gogolia
@Michael Bersin:
Beautiful!
Kryptik
Tried to call Joe Manchin since he’s the sole Dem holdout regarding the Ban last I saw. Motherfucker’s office doesn’t have a staffer or even a voice mail to drop it. Just left ringing off the hook endlessly.
schrodingers_cat
@Percysowner: Your link goes to an article about Hidden Figures.
schrodingers_cat
@Kryptik: We should send John Cole with a hand delivered message to Joe M.
SiubhanDuinne
@Percysowner:
@schrodingers_cat:
I think this is the right one.
https://5calls.org
Brachiator
Today’s Google doodle celebrates the birthday of Fred Korematsu, whose Supreme Court case challenged the legitimacy of the imprisonment of Japanese Americans in internment camps.
Very timely.
rikyrah
@Redshift:
I know that’s right.
rikyrah
@Percysowner:
Thanks for this.
Jinchi
@Percysowner: Maybe you meant this link?
https://5calls.org/
(Looks like SiubhanDuinne got there ahead of me)
Kryptik
@schrodingers_cat:
I’m not sure I want Cole left with the task of carrying that many angry messages to Manchin. Who knows what he’d slip on in the process.
dogwood
@Kryptik:
We can’t worry about the Joe Manchins right now. He could easily change parties to save his seat. If he runs for re-election as a dem, and manages to get re-elected, then he’ll be better than any R who would unseat him. That’s the best we can do in WV right now. If we want better dems, we need to start with hassling people like Tulsi Gabbard. She’s from Hawaii for chrissakes. .
PST
Rikyrah mentioned in another thread that Trump had All-Lives-Mattered the Holocaust. That is spot on. I can only hope that some people who lacked sufficient capacity for empathy to understand how and why this was so offensive when applied to Black Lives Matter may get the picture when it becomes an all-purpose answer.
sdhays
@tobie: Yeah, I saw that. We’ve been watching this show for years now, but he keeps taking Trump at his word that he’s upset about the loss of manufacturing. The only bit of sincerity I have ever detected from Trump is when he’s getting his hate on. He doesn’t give even one shit about manufacturing. I know this because he blusters about manufacturing and does stuff to act on his hate. Kabuki taking credit for this or that factory not shutting down doesn’t count. Giving print space to Trump about him “being right on manufacturing” gives him way too much credit and just makes Judis look like a chump.
A few months ago, I remember him writing positively about how Trump’s Mar a Lago golf course being the first golf club in Palm Beach to be open to Jews/non-WASPs. I wonder what he thinks of the “inclusive” statement on the Holocaust…
So many people actively decided to not believe what Donald Trump told them he wanted to do, and now that he’s doing it, they’re upset. Sigh…
Kryptik
@dogwood:
A united Dem stand in the senate against the Ban would be a powerful message sent though, however symbolic it might be.
Major Major Major Major
@dogwood: Manchin is better than any republican so it’s okay if he supports a Muslim ban? And we don’t know if he does? We shouldn’t even call him to ask, or to express dissatisfaction? I don’t understand the line you are drawing.
Kryptik
@PST:
Yeah. It’s like…you don’t honor the other groups that died in the Holocaust by erasing the mention of Jews wholesale and wrap it up with ‘everyone suffered’. You give remembrance to those groups, by noting those groups. Completely whitewashing how overwhelmingly Jews were targeted and killed in this is how you minimize their suffering, you immense, immense asshats.
Betsy
Can someone please help analyze this piece? Is it conspiracy-theory fear-mongering, or is it meaningful and real? Or a mixture of both? Adam Silverman?
https://medium.com/@yonatanzunger/trial-balloon-for-a-coup-e024990891d5#.r85qjc540
Woodrowfan
@Brachiator: today is The Fred Korematsu Day of Civil Liberties and the Constitution. So it’s a coincidence, but an appropriate one..
dogwood
@Kryptik:
Absolutely. And people who can’t reach Manchin’s office by phone should go to his local offices in person if that is possible. He should hear from all of his constituents. I’m just not willing to put him high on my list of people I’m gonna worry about right now.
Larkspur
I wish I could quietly change the sign on Bannon’s door to “Steve Benen”, and get Benen to show up for work.
Jeffro
@Redshift:
Amen to that – no more lawbreaking, no more lies, no more going along with any of it.
lamh36
GOP fuckers like Ryan & McConnell are using Cheeto Prez as “distraction” while they pass all manner of shit with spineless Dems help!
even if cheeto does unconstitutional shit and they know it, Ryan & McConnell should be out of a job, but who is gonna be the force to accuse them…seema the majority of the Dems with seniority are playing get along to get along with Trump…it’s the newbies who are at least making waves…oh and the CBC may finally be awake
Yoda Dog
@rikyrah: Martin needs to read that… Thank you for posting.
Renie
I bet Bannon is already thinking up a plan to crack down on all the protesting
geg6
@tobie:
Totally agree. Judis is worthless and Josh should jettison him. I was appalled reading that. Just appalled. He’s not my ally.
dogwood
@Major Major Major Major:
Of course people should call him. I just find it interesting that a true-believing Islamophobe like Gabbard isn’t getting any push back around here.
Mnemosyne
@Kryptik:
If you can’t get through on the phone, send a fax. Preferably to all of his offices (local and DC).
rikyrah
@dogwood:
.
Tell it. Don’t call me a purity pony when I am unwilling to accept the likes of Gabbard from a place like HAWAII.
WE.CAN.DO.BETTER.
Major Major Major Major
@Yoda Dog: is Martin in favor of secession? I would be very surprised.
@Renie: I bet Bannon had that already planned on Friday night when he had Trump kick the EO into high gear.
Mnemosyne
@dogwood:
No one wants to have the Sanders fans swarm us again, and Gabbard is beloved by those morons for her support of Sanders.
(Don’t use his first name or all of the trolls who have a Google alert set for that will show up and kill the thread.)
darrel wright
Good post. And just because it’s my self-assigned role, I will once again note that one of the pillars of this Bannon strategy is to drive stronger wedges between constituents. Every time someone says “fuck Trump,” an angel gets it’s wings. Every time someone says “fuck these trump voters,” Bannon gets another bullet.
Major Major Major Major
@Mnemosyne: is she though? I honestly don’t think I’ve ever seen anybody say anything positive about her here.
@dogwood: I misread your post then, apologies.
I assume somebody is planning to file a primary challenge to Gabbard, right??
Mnemosyne
Totally OT, but it sounds like it’s not going to be an #OscarsSoWhite this year given the results at the Screen Actors Guild Awards last night. Because actors are the largest contingent of Academy voters, you can usually predict the Oscar winners based on the SAG winners.
JPL
@Betsy: I read the article and like you, I don’t know.
NuetronFlux
@Michael Bersin: Nice
Percysowner
@Jinchi: Thanks, my copy obviously didn’t work.
schrodingers_cat
@darrel wright: Give me break, if last weekend hasn’t opened their eyes, they are beyond redemption.
Mnemosyne
@Major Major Major Major:
She was one of Sanders’s first and strongest supporters, so she’s one of the anointed now. That doesn’t mean we shouldn’t take her down, but we need to be prepared to be attacked from the left when we begin.
Renie
@Major Major Major Major: probably will use “national security” to justify it
darrel wright
@schrodingers_cat: I don’t care about whether or not they are “beyond redemption.” It’s time to stop being emotional and look at how this thing actually functions in reality. Trump/Bannon WANT the left saying “fuck Trump voters.” They want it, they need it, and a lot of people can’t seem to help giving it to them.
dogwood
@Major Major Major Major:
No apology necessary.
Major Major Major Major
@Renie: however he does it, it will be done to maximize “look at these unamerican, shariah-loving urban liberals and pointy headed lawyers who won’t let YOUR president do what we need to do.”
@Mnemosyne: yeah but I meant here. I have a couple FB friends who say nice things about her but they also think that Hugo Chavez only failed because of America (somehow).
waysel
@darrel wright: “If you were to, for example, study a bit in depth say Nelson Mandela, and some of the post apartheid methods used to rectify ill will between parties involved, and come share some specific actions or scripts that might help ‘mend the fences’ between current adversaries , I’d be more interested in listening to your ‘be nicer’ advice. Seriously, there may be something useful, but with Fox, Rush, Brietbart constantly inflaming the tribes, I don’t have much hope that we can bridge any gaps.”
schrodingers_cat
@darrel wright: They can’t be reached if this last weekend didn’t change their opinion. You are free to keep trying, if you disagree. I don’t need a lecture about how I should be nice to people who wish me and mine, harm.
sharl
@Mnemosyne:
I’m sure there are Sanderistas who feel this way – hell, examples can be found of the most nutty views, if you look long and hard enough – but I haven’t really seen a “beloved” attitude toward Gabbard from the crowd I follow on Twitter. On the rare occasion she comes up in comments, the kind of Gabbard-favorable comment that comes up – even among the most nuance-incapable lefties – tends to start with ‘I have problems with some of her views, but…’ or something like that.
So again, it wouldn’t surprise me that hard core Gabbardites are out there, but I haven’t seen them on Twitter, and I lurk in those Sanderista/Democratic Socialist circles quite a bit.
Mnemosyne
@darrel wright:
@schrodingers_cat:
I’ll take a middle ground between you guys — going strictly by what I’ve seen on Facebook, this has been a major “WTF?” moment for a lot of Trump’s soft supporters, especially religious ones. I think this is a point when we can (as gently as possible) say, “We told you so. Now what are you going to do?”
The ones who are defending this action with Islamophobic memes like the racist troll who popped up over the weekend are beyond hope, and we need to acknowledge that, yes, some part of Trump’s base is unrepentant white supremacists and neo-Nazis. Not just ordinary racist people, but committed and fucking scary white supremacists who see Bannon and Trump as the heroes who will stop the “white genocide” they see all around them.
Mnemosyne
@Major Major Major Major:
@sharl:
I admit, I haven’t seen much of it lately, but I definitely remember it. I’m more saying that we need to be prepared for a backlash from the left and not be taken by surprised when it happens.
Yoda Dog
@Major Major Major Major: He was. Not sure about today, but I had to try to talk him off that ledge just a few weeks ago. I believe someone here might have been encouraging him by calling the US “a failed experiment” in that thread. Not yet, we are not, my friend. Without California we certainly would be alot further down that road, however.
schrodingers_cat
@Major Major Major Major: One cannot argue with that level dense stupidity. Believe me, I have tried.
darrel wright
@waysel: We are not post-apartheid yet. We we are pre-apartheid. I’m fine with truth and reconciliation once this cataclysm is over and normalcy is restored, the whole point is this is about a practical matter of how that happens. A lot of people are fixating their anger on the ‘deplorable’ 35% and vastly expanding Trump’s hard support both in their minds and then by extension in reality. The absolutely stupidest stance we can take right now is “if you voted for Trump, you voted for this, and Fuck you!” It’s a stupid, feel-good venting that ONLY helps accomplish Trumpian goals.
Major Major Major Major
@Yoda Dog: I find that very surprising then :)
I mean, it would probably realistically destroy both countries if California seceded from the US, especially under Trump. This isn’t hard.
ETA: @darrel wright: deplorables vote. At some point we have to admit that Trump is the president republicans want, and that republicans are roughly 40% of the polity.
schrodingers_cat
@darrel wright:
Go fuck yourself and the moral high horse you rode on. Go give this advice to a person whose spouse is stuck in limbo land in Tehran and cannot return to their job and family.
darrel wright
@Mnemosyne: My only point is that if you want your opponents army to start to desert, you don’t trap them in a canyon and send over a wagon of red-meat steaks every afternoon with a note about how they’re all the same and will all be killed for having joined this army.
I’m fine with the amount of “fuck this particular person because they did X particlar thing.” I’m not fine with increasing the Trump coalition’s cohesiveness by conflating their motives and insisting “they” are all the same. Don’t tell them they voted for this and are irremediable, tell them they DID NOT vote for this and are. Regardless of what you believe.
darrel wright
@schrodingers_cat: Oh, OK, I’ll go fuck myself and try to get more emotional because I’m not losing anything here. Uh huh. Listen to yourself and your assumptions.
waysel
@darrel wright: I’m trying to point out that what you propose is all theoretical without any offering of tools and techniques to do this ‘outreach.’ Too, I imagine most anti-trump voter speech is confined to bubbles like this blog or my Facebook page, two places where trump voters do not visit. When we start having ‘Anti Trump Voters’ rallies and marches , your concern will make sense.
Brachiator
@Woodrowfan:
Some google employees have been affected by Trump’s executive order, as have been employees of other tech companies, as well as other people. And of course, today is Fred Korematsu’s birthday, which might also have been the deciding factor in selecting the day of recognition. I think that this selection of the google doodle was more than coincidental. But even if not.
I did not know this bit:
Other states have since signed on.
BTW, Roosevelt’s action to imprison Japanese Americans was by means of Executive Order 9066.
darrel wright
@waysel: I had a fairly long post about some success I had in Trump outreach I believe on Thursday. But I do believe that the whole tenor matters, even and maybe especially in our little segregated enclaves. Personally, I believe we really aren’t going to be effective outside of the bubble when inside the bubble of “our people” is so dominated by a spirit of “fuck THEM, they deserve it.”
waysel
@darrel wright: Oh, good job missing almost every point I tried to make. “‘Not post apartheid yet’, hence I will ignore your research suggestion.”
schrodingers_cat
@darrel wright: You called people who did not agree with you stupid. I on the other hand said that if you think outreach is a good strategy, you should definitely go out and do it. I assume nothing about you, other than what you have said here, unlike your mind reading.
dogwood
@darrel wright:
What I know about myself and what I am grappling with right now is this: I am not an effective advocate for any issue when I’m angry. I don’t anger easily, but when I do I can be nasty and end up not liking myself; it’s not cathartic for me This is one reason I never did Facebook. Right now I’m angry all the time and I hate it. If yelling “Fuck You” at Trump voters makes some people feel better, that’s fine. But it’s not real resistance. True, effective resistance demands self control.
Major Major Major Major
@darrel wright: um, have you seen THEIR bubbles?
Hint: they just elected one president.
waysel
@darrel wright: Do you have a link? I’ve seen a longish post of yours, maybe your first on this topic, but it lacked any practical, tools, methods, sample sentences, etc.
schrodingers_cat
@dogwood:
No name calling is not an effective strategy. I just don’t harbor illusions about people, that’s all.
darrel wright
@Major Major Major Major:
I feel like this is both not true, and something that does their work for them. Trump received 26% of the votes cast in this past election, an election which had the lowest turnout since 1996. How that translates into 40% of the polity having Trump as their guy you will need to explain. And if you can do it well enough, maybe Bannon will put it in Trump’s next ad.
elm
@darrel wright: Your outpouring of concern is noted.
Trump voters did vote for this. If they want forgiveness and reconsideration, they have a responsibility to oppose Trump’s actions that they disapprove of.
I will not speak to them in anger, but if they want reconsideration, they must speak and act out against these horrors.
schrodingers_cat
@elm:
Word.
low-tech cyclist
@rikyrah:
Seems to be there for me.
darrel wright
@waysel: I’d have to go look. It’s about a Trump lady who stands down at the kids’ bus stop with me who gave me a little opening along the “too bad liberals are so awful that we were FORCED to vote for Trump” line.
Larkspur
Here’s what I think whether anyone cares or not. I feel perfectly okay with saying “Fuck them, they deserve it” here, on this blog, while I also know that I would never say that in meatspace to a Wilmerite. I don’t consider that hypocritical. I don’t post comments of great significance here, but it is still the closest thing I have to an authentic internet community, and I will express myself, and others will scold (have at it), but I am capable of evaluating what is tactical and what is strategic, and how I can behave effectively out in the world.
Hellbastard
I tried calling my rep (Arrington, Texas 19th) and Senator Cornyn’s office to let them know my disgust but couldn’t get through to a person. WHat should I do now? Keep calling until I get someone? Leave a voice message? Use their online letter submission forms?
low-tech cyclist
@elm:
Yeppers. At this point, either they’re on the Trump bus, or they’re off the Trump bus. There’s no in-between anymore.
Peale
@tobie: I know. Jeez. Welcome back to the club, bozo. I really like how the entire “anti-global” left just spent 18 months pretending that Trump had a policy. Like he was writing a new pro-worker policy. He isn’t interested in “trade”. He’s interested in punishing Mexicans . He’s not interested in a more balanced approach to China. He wants to punish them for being disrespectful. That’s it. This isn’t some nuanced trade renegotiation on favorable terms for labor. He doesn’t care if he hurts Mexican labor in this country. He wants that labor stopped and he doesn’t really care if the way he punishes these disrespectful foreigners hurts labor or not.
darrel wright
@elm:
Can you explain what you mean by that? “Trump voters” means all voters who marked for Trump? “This” means what, everything that the administration has done so far?
So I voted for Obama, did I vote for offshore fracking in the Gulf of Mexico?
Jinchi
@Hellbastard:
I consider it a very good sign that you couldn’t get through to them. It means their phone lines are clogged or that they’re hiding.
Yes, you should keep calling. While you’re waiting for an answer, write a paper letter and mail it (postmarked from the district). It’s really hard to hide from a pile of irate letters, even if they refuse to open them. Better yet, find out if they are going to have any town halls and show up. If by any chance you happen to visit D.C., plan on dropping by their offices.
Peale
@lamh36:
Seriously? What legislative votes have been planned. The only vote I can recall so far is the reconciliation bill that made it impossible for Dems to filibuster parts of ACA reform. But nothing has been passed. Its really difficult to show “resistance” if there isn’t anything on the floor to vote for.
elm
@darrel wright: Trump campaigned on banning Muslims from entering the US. He talked about it a lot. He talked about it explicitly.
People who voted for Trump voted for a ban on Muslims entering the US.
How much did Obama promote his agenda of offshore fracking during his campaign?
Did the other feasible (e.g. other major party candidate) oppose that policy?
Your abundance of concern is noted.
darrel wright
@low-tech cyclist:
You can believe this or not, my personal view is that there is no such thing as pure black and white in human affairs and certainly not in political and cultural affairs. Buy regardless of how dear you hold this belief in no middle ground, do you think that is a belief that is beneficial or detrimental to your political goals?
Major Major Major Major
@darrel wright: a polity refers to a political entity. I’m excluding people who don’t vote.
elm
@Hellbastard: Did you try the numbers for each of their offices? If not, try every one. Arrington has an office in DC and 2 in his district. Cornyn has one in DC and 7 around TX. Call them all until you get through.
Major Major Major Major
@darrel wright:
You did, actually. And, if you didn’t verbally oppose it, you supported it, too.
darrel wright
@elm: Some. “All of the above energy strategy.” It upset me and I didn’t vote for that part.
You get 2 choices. There are PLENTY of people who hoped various parts of the Trumpery was not seriously intended. That’s simply true.
elm
@darrel wright: There was no good reason to think that Trump was not serious about his Muslim ban.
Any person who feels that Trump fooled them who actually opposes the Muslim ban should vocally oppose it right now. Silence is support. People who voted for Trump did this country serious damage. If they want respect and consideration, they need to earn it with acts.
Major Major Major Major
@darrel wright: they still voted for those parts. You don’t get to pick which parts your vote counts for. And until one voices opposition, since one has already voiced support with one’s vote, then I assume one approves.
darrel wright
@Major Major Major Major: Then you’re talking about an “active voting electorate,” not a polity. The broader point is that when we speak in a way that inflates trump’s real support and insists that support is the same as support for all his policies, we’re cutting off our own noses.
Brachiator
@elm:
This is an idle fantasy and a vain hope.
I don’t see any sign that Trump supporters are looking for, or care about, your respect and consideration.
Fortunately, this has nothing to do with the need to defeat the Republicans politically.
Major Major Major Major
@darrel wright: I have never seen the phrase active voting electorate before, and given that the top google hit for it is Uzbekistan.de, I’m going to assume it’s not common parlance. At any rate, it doesn’t matter how many people disapprove of Trump if they don’t vote, and that’s what I meant.
Larkspur
I just called my deep blue congress critter, Jared Huffman (D-CA 2nd District) and his aide told me he’s going to be on the Supreme Court steps tonight with some of his colleagues demanding an end to the immigration ban. So I know where he stands, but I’m a-callin’ anyway.
darrel wright
@Major Major Major Major:
First, I feel like this maybe overestimates both the fervor of people’s policy preferences and their fervor for and ability to “voice opposition” in very specific ways.
Second, if there were a good practical reason to need make an broad assumption there, I guess that wouldn’t be a bad one, that if a person voted for Trump they must specifically want Muslims banned from the country. But what is the actual utility of making that broad assumption? Aren’t you (in a democratic sense) helping to legitimize Trump’s action?
darrel wright
There were really good reasons to think he couldn’t actually do it, first among them that’s it’s profoundly unconstitutional and a preznit can’t legally do that.
The Moar You Know
@darrel wright: That is simply utter horseshit and easily disproved: just ask a Trump voter. Once your ears are done ringing from the volume of the “fuck yeah” they yell into your face, come back and apologize.
PS: your real purpose here is now very obvious. You want accommodation with this psychopath and those who voted for him. You’re not going to get either one.
Major Major Major Major
@darrel wright: I’m not trying to do anything, I’m explaining my ethical viewpoint on the comments of a mid-tier blog.
Yoda Dog
@waysel:
Darell gave her a foot massage. She’ll still be voting Trump in 2020 but she said kind words to darrell about how he was so different from all us meany libtards and that made him feel good so it was a happy ending for all concerned.
elm
@darrel wright: Is your bus stop person calling her Representative and Senators today on the Muslim ban?
Which would you say takes more of your time:
1. Advocating to Trump voters.
2. Trolling BJ commentators and telling us we’re doing it wrong.
Yoda Dog
@darrel wright:
Your only point is a fucking straw man as others have politely tried to explain. I’m all out of fucks. GFY and your sanctimonious bullshit advice.
elm
@Brachiator: I agree with you 100%. I was trying to phrase things in the nicest possible way for our concerned colleague.
Back in reality land, people who voted Trump support this shit explicitly and implicitly. I know that very few of them advocate against his horrible policy.
darrel wright
@The Moar You Know:
I honestly wish I could understand your need to do this. You go do it your way I guess, I’ll do it mine, hopefully we’ll meet doing good.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@tobie:
There is almost certianly a plastic spork in the White House with Bannon’s name on it too. Sooner or later Trump will start looking to fire someone for these set backs Trump is suffering.
lamh36
I find it’s hardest for non people of color or non minority people to believe that yes…that old lady across the street who talks to you at the bus stop, or that coworker who gushes over your beautiful children/niece/nephew, who loves to commiserate with you about your collective boss, or you uncle Roy, your cousin Jane, your mother, sister, broth….REALLY is the same bigotted, xenophobic, prejudiced person as the ones you read about online.
All while people of color are not surprised AT ALL.
darrel wright
@Yoda Dog:
Somehow I think you will come up with a bunch more fucks and spout them profusely at anyone who has any different approach to spouting a bunch of fucks.
low-tech cyclist
@darrel wright:
Understanding things as they are is always beneficial to my goals.
I’m glad you think political affairs are never black or white. How about them Cambodian killing fields – tell me about the shades of gray there. Or Stalin’s purges. How about the Spanish Inquisition? (You weren’t expecting that, were you? Nobody does.)
No, in just 10 days, Trump has demonstrated that he’s out to damage people’s lives, for reasons that come down to sheer tribalism. How can there be grays on that?
This doesn’t mean that I’m going to excoriate any Trump followers I run into – that would be detrimental to my goals. But that doesn’t mean I’m not going to try to gently open their eyes.
schrodingers_cat
DW is deliberately derailing a thread about resistance and he is attacking the commenters here.
elm
@schrodingers_cat:
This.
A dozen “ur doin it rong” comments is too many.
Yoda Dog
@schrodingers_cat: Yea, I regret feeding it. He’s going in the NR/GoBlue bag for me now..
This aint the first thread he’s turned..
Hellbastard
@Jinchi: Still getting nothing but busy signals at their offices.
schrodingers_cat
@Yoda Dog: I made the same mistake.
41 out of 129 comments refer to or are written by this person.
waysel
@elm: @schrodingers_cat: I shall engage DW no more. Derailing troll seems like the proper assessment.
Major Major Major Major
@schrodingers_cat: @waysel: Yeah, I figured that out towards the end. Added to troll filter.
waysel
@Yoda Dog: Your comments #116 and #118, are why I come to Balloon Juice.
low-tech cyclist
@darrel wright:
So, suppose Trump pulls an Andrew Jackson and tells the courts where they can stuff it. Maybe Trump can’t legally do it, but he can actually do it. The GOP controls Congress, and they aren’t going to impeach him.
darrel wright
@elm:
Ach! Foiled again!! Back to the cave to bathe in flowback fluid and sharpen up my false-flag plan on how to demoralize my leftist enemies so that Trump’s racially purified utopia can be more fully realized!
Do you guys think maybe you’re getting a little comical?
Major Major Major Major
@darrel wright: why would you bother commenting somewhere so hostile?
darrel wright
@low-tech cyclist: Well yeah, that’s becoming pretty clear. The question is not what is, but what any given Trump voter believed.
darrel wright
@Major Major Major Major: I’ll admit, the “fuck-off” stuff which has always run pretty thick has always bothered me. But why would I hang here? It’s pretty much the smartest and most balanced activist-left blog I’ve found and I think Betty Cracker is one of the most talented writers of snark on these here intertoobz.
My personality definitely does run counter to a big part of the spirit or overall personality here, that’s maybe where some disconnect comes in.
Yoda Dog
@waysel: HA! Well thk you, I aim to please. I do usually try to keep it more positive despite what the troll thinks.
J R in WV
@dogwood:
Here are alternate numbers and addresses for Manchin’s offices:
Washington, DC
306 Hart Senate Office Building
Washington DC, 20510
Phone: 202-224-3954
Fax: 202-228-0002
Charleston Office
900 Pennsylvania Avenue
Suite 629
Charleston, WV 25302
Phone: 304-342-5855
Toll-Free Phone: 855-275-5737 (For residents with a 304 or 681 area code)
Fax: 304-343-7144
Eastern Panhandle Office
261 Aikens Center
Suite 305
Martinsburg, WV 25404-6203
Phone: 304-264-4626
Fax: 304-262-3039
Fairmont Office
230 Adams Street
Fairmont, WV 26554
Phone: 304-368-0567
Fax: 304-368-0198
NR
@waysel: The thought manifests as the word;
The word manifests as the deed;
The deed develops into habit;
And habit hardens into character;
So watch the thought and its ways with care,
And let it spring from love
Born out of concern for all beings…
As the shadow follows the body,
As we think, so we become.
– From the Dhammapada Sayings of the Buddha
Hellbastard
FInally got through to JOdey Arrington’s office (Texas 19th). He supports the EO. It sounded like the guy on the other end had a pre-written response drafted and ready to go. Expressed my disappointment and opposition.
Yoda Dog
@Hellbastard: Good for you. Im calling congressman David Price now and making sure he’s standing by Nancy Smash today.
waysel
Good lord! If I’m capable of arousing the NR without mentioning Wilmer, I’d best stop commenting here, for the sake of the blog. Jeesh.
Major Major Major Major
@waysel: To be fair you did mention NR.
J R in WV
@darrel wright:
Darrel, I have a lot of sympathy for your views on the one hand, shouting Fuck You at anyone does nothing to sway their opinions towards your viewpoints. But when you say:
I’m pretty sure that 26% number is plain old wrong and un-factual. Did you mean 46%?
You can’t get elected to office with one-quarter of the vote, yet. And you’re absolutely correct about keeping on with the fight against all of Trump’s activity. I’m pretty cynical, and I’m still shocked by this first week.
Mnemosyne
@darrel wright:
Well, they did vote for this. Trump told them exactly what he was going to do, and they voted for him.
The ones who now want to say, “Holy shit, I didn’t believe him, but he really is doing these things!” I am willing to bring along as long as they actually do something.
The ones who are defending his current actions can DIAF. Not only did they vote for this, they’re defending it. They cannot be won over.
dogwood
@lamh36:
I’m white and it’s not hard for me to imagine at all. I know some white people who were saved by the ACA who are going trhough some personal trauma right now because close friends and family voted for Trump. One of these people found out her Latina nieces voted for him. This is who they are. As I said earlier, I’m not interested in yelling at them because it’s pointless. They can’t be shamed because they are shameless. If people like Darrell want to reason with these voters, I’m fine with that. If people want to argue with them, go for it. What will work best for me is to do neither. I’m working right now in my red bi-state community to start a Valley Indivisible group. I doubt that we are going to change the world, but we’re going to try and give voice to the 40% of the community who have been silenced for too long.
schrodingers_cat
@waysel: M^4 invoked Neo Russian/Republican by name.
Major Major Major Major
@schrodingers_cat: No I didn’t. Where?
Brachiator
@elm:
Gotcha. Makes perfect sense.
schrodingers_cat
@Major Major Major Major: Sorry it was not you, it was Yoda Dog. See #127.
Mnemosyne
@J R in WV:
Turnout is weird — there was a higher overall number of people who voted this year, but the percentage was lower.
Personally, I don’t think we can talk about turnout being down without discussing the fact that many states — especially the “firewall” states — prevented African-Americans and other Democrats from voting, but somehow the people who are Very Concerned about turnout never want to discuss the fact that there were citizens who wanted to vote but were not allowed to.
MBirchmeier
@Jinchi: At least in ohio, the senator’s numbers have been slammed all morning. Here’s to hoping that continues.
Yoda Dog
@schrodingers_cat: IM SORRY!!!!!!
Percysowner
I know I screwed up my last link, but I’m going to double, triple check this. The action network, a nonprofit which was formed which was formed by the people who wrote the Indivisible Guide for lobbying Congress is holding An Emergency Call to Stand Against Trump’s Muslim and Refugee Bans tonight at 9:00 EST/6:00 PST.
Just throwing this out for anyone who has the time
Yoda Dog
(looks around warily) is everybody gone? WHEW! Good. I wont invoke his name ever again I swear. I cant believe he just appeared like that at his mention. He’s like the Candyman. That movie scared the snot out of me as a kid…
waysel
@Major Major Major Major: I don’t think I did mention that entity. Not until after it showed up.
waysel
@Mnemosyne: THIS
Bill Arnold
Since it’s an open thread, a few links representative of serious alarm I’m seeing in various places. I’m sure others can supply more links.
Trial Balloon for a Coup?
Kevin Drum: Waiting for a 21st Century Reichstag Fire
waysel
@Yoda Dog: Now you know. They have their nyms and certain key words (long version of the senator form small hippie new England state) in Google Alert. Sneaking low life dogs.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@Mnemosyne:
Perhaps, but it worth engaging them and avoiding personal attacks. A lot of them run in the Right Wing information bubble so worth giving them some reality based facts for a change. A nibble from the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge if you will… (seriously, when one is voting for Trump voter, one is talking to some twit who voted a game show host as the most powerful man in the world, why restate the obvious? They clearly need some help)
As John points out, the path out of Wingnutdom doesn’t feature a Road to Damascus moment of enlightenment.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@Bill Arnold: Apply Trump’s razor here; they are stupid people who believe in stupid things. Trump and his people are inept businessmen so they are trying to ineptly run the government like a business. Considering all the blundering they likely don’t even understand checks and balances, much less have a plan to undermine them beyond holding the view they won so it’s their right to do whatever they want.
Bill Arnold
@Enhanced Voting Techniques:
I no longer believe this. In particular, Bannon and Kushner are not stupid men. Don’t have an opinion on Miller yet but he seems not stupid, and Flynn, while sharing Trump’s weakness for right-wing conspiracy theories, seemed bright in an interview with aljazeera Who is to blame for the rise of ISIL?
Uncle Ebeneezer
@rikyrah: I was protesting at LAX yesterday and every time I saw brave Muslim women and girls in their hijabs it got very difficult for me to continue chanting without breaking down and bawling. Just the thought of what our/their country is doing to them and how that must feel, made me so fucking ashamed, outraged and overwhelmed with emotion. Fortunately, they had more than enough fight/swagger/belief on their own (it was truly inspiring to see) so all I had to do was join their chants and give them thumbs-ups/head-nods and other signals of support and solidarity.
Uncle Ebeneezer
@Enhanced Voting Techniques: “Perhaps, but it worth engaging them and avoiding personal attacks.”
Good, I’m sure Mnemosyne has NEVER THOUGHT OF THAT BEFORE /sarcasm.
You wanna play nice with these assholes, have fun, but this is not the time for tone policing. People have every right to be pissed at the assholes who put us into this mess and treat them with the contempt they deserve.
Cicada
Scott Soriano is someone who was part of my first getting involved in political protest and action over twenty years ago. His posts are always thoughtful and full of context. What a hoot seeing him on here!
BJ Lurker
Can someone explain to me how voting No takes more time and effort than voting Yes?
In my world, they take the same amount of time.