President Donald Trump will not head to Milwaukee for a previously scheduled visit of a Harley-Davidson factory after the company decided it wasn’t comfortable hosting him amid planned protests, an administration official said Tuesday.
Trump had been scheduled to tour the factory Thursday where he also planned to sign executive orders related to American manufacturing.
I’d buy myself a hog right now…if I wasn’t such a Camry-driving weenie.
I still wouldn’t buy a Harley, as I have an actual penis.
They didn’t cancel because they disagree with Trump, the big bad bikers cancelled because the women’s march scared them shitless.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
Problem with going negative Donnald, no one wants to be arround a bummer.
Also, want to bet these orders featured trade issues that would have hurt HD? I mean I am pretty sure a lot of their parts aren’t made in the USA.
So what would this EO say?
“Ok, all you maufacturers, start building stuff here now!”
Why would you buy one of those pieces of shit?
H-D is definitely pro-Trump. Isn’t it? It’s riders sure as hell are.
It’s a Union shop, though, so there’s that….
Is it pro-Trump? I just know it’s made in the USA and union.
How is this something that’s working? Trump and the GOP will just put the blame on the demonstrators yet again.
Would never get one, but yeah on the news.
Donnie’s gonna get bored when the only place he can show his orange nose without a protest is Branson, Baton Rouge, and Okla City.
BTW Doug, only one “son” needed in the title.
We Milwaukee anti-Trump folks made a lot of calls to H-D today, and made it clear we would be there protesting. Nice to have a small win in what is going to be a big war.
If you let them have their Nuremberg rallies without demonstrations they’ll say it’s proof that everyone loves them. If Trump has to cancel his favourite thing in the world, rallies, who gives a shit what he says about it?
Nice work, Mark and other Milwaukee folks!
Deprive Donald of his safe spaces, and watch that special snowflake melt.
Early leaks of Trump budget indicate it will have LARGER cuts to non-defense spending than even the awful Ryan budget.
Over 40 percent reduction in social safety net programs over 10 year period. Meanwhile, over that same 10 year period, 99% of the benefit of proposed tax cuts will go to the wealthiest 1% of households.
Trump Budget Proposal
@Doug!: Isn’t inviting him to the factory right now an indication?
Or were they planning to drag him behind a softtail?
@debbie: If demonstrations and protests force Trump to change his plans, that is good. Pressure is good, it’s even better when it has a measurable effect. That keeps people motivated to continue. It’s worth encouraging.
Because social pressure is incredibly powerful. Eventually even the most brainwashed among them will start to wonder why the protests keep going on and on and on. That kernel of doubt is what allows people to change their minds.
@p.a.: There’s a million places where Trump would be welcomed in rural Oregon. In the Illinois Valley there are “US OUT OF UN” and Art Robinson signs weatherworn with age. Just sspeaking from personal experience.
Main Harley purchasers are well off white guys between 50 and 70. Dentists and accountants. So, Trump voter overlap could be high.
Still can’t imagine how Trump is going to visit UK. The protests will be massive.
Thanks, I fixed it.
Always wanted one. Now may be the time.
Yeah, but he and Bannon are looking to create chaos and distraction and then blame it on the Dems (and as I heard Sebastian Gorka snipe earlier tonight, the Millenials). This will just feed that.
@Oatler.: This is a paradox that is going to hurt him.
He has NO desire to visit the small places, and has no idea how people live there. Yet he is going to get shut out of cities with protest, and so won’t have access to culture in any form, other than TV. That is going to take a toll.
Steve in the ATL
Sitting in an airport in Utah forced to listen to wolf blitzer interview Raul Labrador. Kill me now.
What no Prius? Neo-liberal.
@debbie: So what you propose?
Pretty much everyone I work around has a Harley. And a bunch of guns. Seems to be a syndrome. If they didn’t, they’d have nothing to talk about. Which would be heavenly, but too much to hope for.
I rode motorcycles for 25 years. Harleys are a different thing. A fetish object and an ostentatious display. I could go on about the whole psychology, but honestly it’s not worth it.
@?BillinGlendaleCA: Aren’t neo-liberals well-off enough that stereotypically they’d be driving Teslas instead of Priuses?
@debbie: People aren’t always careful what they wish for.
@Ultraviolet Thunder: Exactly what I was implying. I love motorcycles and have owned many, but would never, ever buy a Hog.
And now that I know Bruce Rauner has one, that’s even more of a disincentive.
@Mike J: Exactly. This is a constant reminder to them that they are not universally beloved nor approved of. People actually hate them, and that pisses them off to no end.
Won’t have access to culture?
What does that mean in the case of Trump?
Removed, meant for previous thread.
@Mike J: lol, hilarious. I also am the owner of an actual penis and have no use for the damn noise pollutants.
OT: I am tired of anglo-saxon protestant single hetrosexual males telling me to “cool out”. I officially need some new friends.
Ronald Reagan slapped a tariff on the exact range of Japanese motorbikes which were eating H-D alive, then went to the factory to brag about deregulation and free enterprise. Saving H-D, at that time the only US mfr (I think) I have no problem with, but the manner it was done still rankles me.
So, anything that keeps an R-prez away from H-D is okay in my book.
Stop fighting amongst ourselves. Focus on the things, like voting rights, that will prevent a disaster like this from ever happening again.
I don’t pretend to be a genius, but the marches aren’t only emboldening the protesters; they’re empowering the fascists. Some state legislator (Minnesota?) proposed legislation permitting people to run over protesters with their cars if they were in the way. Seriously?
I just found out that obvious anagram (TM Charlie Pierce) Reince Priebus is moving close to my neighborhood. I’m a little worried I’ll run into him at Safeway.
Just say ‘no’ to Trump fake job stunts.
The decline in manufacturing jobs resumed last year after a brief upward trend during the recovery from the Great Recession. My back of the envelope calculations show that Trump has to do one Carrier deal a week to reverse the current mild trend downward. (that is real Carrier deals, not the fake deal Trump crowed about).
To recover half the manufacturing jobs lost since the 5001 recession, Trump has to do 5 or 6 Carrier deals a day. I haven’t heard that Trump has assigned some abject flunky to work on that. And Donny seems to have slacked off in attending to it himself.
And so far, Trump’s actions have only increased the value of the US dollar compared to other currencies, which will only make the current manufacturing job loss worse.
I disagree with many people here, and I believe that a lot of US manufacturing jobs can be created. But it would take significant changes in international financial system and current exchange rates. But, Trump will only make the problem worse, not better.
Edit: also just occurred to me that the Trump international business operations are more profitable with a high dollar, at least in terms of acquisition costs and financing. So, I think we can predict where things are headed.
@BGinCHI: Trump wants to be respected and loved. He’s getting neither except tongue baths from his staff. Outside, where he used to have fun rallies full of cheering fans, there are now huge protests about him and his policies. Everywhere he looks. Everywhere he wants to go. Protests. It has to be eating at him. That’s good. Let’s keep it up!
Speaking of which, is everyone set to boycott TV tonight during his Reality TV Supreme Court Announcement? He’s breaking into primetime TV tonight. Supposed to be the 8:00 p.m. hour. Might be a good time to remove any DVR programs you’re scheduled to record on network TV at that time too. Give him no ratings.
Heading out for another anti-Trump protest in Lubbock, TX!
@Ultraviolet Thunder: People who get Harleys aren’t serious about actually *riding*, in my experience. Their bikes seem to spend an awful lot more time on trailers than on the road.
They’re like other people I know who get these big fancy warmblooded sport horses and then are terrified of actually *riding* them outside an arena.
Это курам на смех
Ironically, H-D would have gone out of business in the early 80s (because nobody was buying their comically antiquated designs) if not for the protectionism they got from Saint Reagan, who on their behalf imposed a massively unfair tariff on large-displacement bikes from overseas.
@Corner Stone: the beautiful people whose attention he craves will reject and ridicule him. He’s not even Queens he’s Nassau County. It will drive him nuts.
A Ghost to Most
I sold my motorcycle years ago after figuring out that most of the people I was riding were just cosplaying badasses in their own minds. Often gutless in real life.
@debbie: That was in North Dakota, and that was in response to Native American-led protests over the Dakota pipeline. Are you seriously suggesting that because some state legislator is a dick, that those folks *shouldn’t* be out there protesting?
I ride a Harley and have interacted with many other HD riders. Unsurprisingly, they are almost all extreme conservatives. Weird thing is HD is probably the only unionized motorcycle manufacturer in the world and conservatives HATE unions. Victory, made by Polaris is not unionized and has eaten into their market share some among the target demographic and I would expect that to continue to expand as union hatred continues to grow within the right wing.
@A Ghost to Most:
I dunno, a lot of the biker-wannabes I’ve seen have pretty large guts…
A lot of women ride Harleys, so it would be ok if you do, even with your dick.
@Corner Stone: Not implying he’s really interested in actual culture.
But he’s a New Yorker, a city guy. He wants to eat fancy, go out, be in the city. And that is going to stop. And it hurts him that the actors and musicians hate him, whether he will admit it or not.
Gin & Tonic
@lumpkin: Gotta love their business model, though, as they are one of the very few companies who can get their customers to pay extra for the privilege of advertising the company’s products. Most other consumer durable goods manufacturers have to spend money to advertise.
I meant to type
‘since the 2001 recession’
With Trump, I’m not sure we’ll make to 2005, let along 5001.
No, that’s not at all what I said, but we need to do things in a way that won’t work to the enemy’s benefit.
Oh, you’re the guy that got Obama’s time machine.
@debbie: Pressure from protests is good. If you’re not comfortable with them, you need not participate. In order for us to “Stop fighting amongst ourselves”, we need to not police each other’s peaceful activism.
Protesters are participating, making their voices heard, and influencing Trump (in this case, he cancelled a public appearance). Voting and voter registration are also important and protests and votes can coexist.
Gin & Tonic
He’s a time warp New Yorker. His whole mindset is mid-1980’s New York.
@debbie: There really is nothing we can do that they won’t respond negatively to.
There is a decent protest in Minneapolis right now. I would guess 4-5 thousand people making a hash out of the rush hour. I’d be there but am sick as a dog at the moment.
Listen to this interview with Bannon’s aide and tell me just how much of an impression has been made. I’m not against protests, but clearly numbers don’t impress them. I don’t know what will.
So then what do we do?
A Ghost to Most
Thank you; that actually made me snort!
Right. I’m not a marcher, but I admire those who do. I do what I can (contributions, phone calls, etc.). I think the protests are great.
@debbie: What you said was:
So it sounds an awful lot to me like you’re saying, “we shouldn’t be out there protesting, because Bad People, and Bad Things Will Happen!” Well…bad things are going to be happening anyway. And it’s not because people are out there protesting a political culture that trashes them and values profits over people. It’s because of the political culture they’re protesting. So I say…whatever it takes to get people up off their asses and out there changing the world.
ETA: for some people that’s going to mean marching in the streets. For some people it’s going to mean donating to a group promoting voting rights. And if either of these things succeed in getting people actually *voting*, they’ve both done their jobs.
You have to speak up, whether they’re going to “respond negatively” or not. Every little bit helps. Silence is fatal.
@A Ghost to Most: Cosplay central usually the ones on the really silly low-slung bikes with all the fringe, leather and loud noises? Somehow those do come off as totally camp for people terrified of actual camp, but at least they seem to work at it. H-D brand very much niche richie richie bike, rather like getting the right brand of alligator on your polo shirt. Even better for the sort that buy their tribal pseudo-identities rather like they buy their trophy wives and other proofs of virility.
I’m not going to listen to it, but these people lie constantly — why would I draw any conclusions from what one of them says?
@?BillinGlendaleCA: You can subscribe to my newsletter for a moderate fee.
@debbie: I like the protests and the calling of Congress critters. Hopefully, there is more to come in other areas, but that’s not to denigrate what’s happened so far.
@debbie: a 10 gauge with slugs will put a crack in the engine of a peterbuilt. Some nazi in his f150 will be picking piston shrapnel out of his tooth.
@Hellbastard: How big have they been in your neck of the woods?
I have a Harley that has racked up nearly 1000 miles per month since I got it Same way with the Kawasaki I owned previously. Lotta other riders are like that too. Sure, some people get one so they can brag about having a Harley at cocktail parties but please don’t engage in the practice of ascribing characteristics of individuals to entire groups.
A Ghost to Most
My DBA colleague, who owns 3 Harleys and an Indian, and I joked about starting a motorcycle club called the DBAs: Dumb But Assholes.
We thought it go over well in Sturgiss
@debbie: I’m not going to listen to an interview with the Nazi’s aide.
I understand it’s not possible to change Trump’s mind or Bannon’s.
But this very thread is about a protest that changed Trump’s behavior. That’s success.
And on immigration, while it’s not possible to change Trump’s mind, it is possible to influence Representatives and Senators to oppose Trump or to temper their support.
People who protest today will be encouraged to vote in 2018.
@lumpkin: You will perhaps notice that I said “in my experience”. That means, *the Harley riders I know* are like that. Your mileage may, literally, vary. Which is fine. Please don’t engage in the practice of telling other people that their experience is somehow invalid because yours is different.
Interesting to see the hostility towards the only unionized motorcycle manufacturer in the US here among nominal liberals. HD has been driven into the niche it now occupies because only a small number of Americans will pay the price of a bike made in America by union members.
Polaris is throwing in the towel on Victory and focusing on Indian.
IMO It’s going to be tough sledding for retro brands as the boomers cross the drop zone..
Baton Rouge is a very liberal city, and majority black. Went for Barack Obama twice and Hillary in the last election. And we also have a brand new black woman mayor. You must have missed the massive black lives matter protests that shut down the city for several days.
Yeah, TBH, my next bike will be an import. Harleys are really well styled and ride well but just haven’t kept up technologically or performance wise.
@BGinCHI: Not the riders I know. I know them from Tai Chi club, though, so maybe that makes a difference.
No, I don’t intend to be silent. But I want to more directly respond to their bullshit. For instance, I’ve noticed that every single interview with a member of the Trump administration or the GOP includes a statement that “the people decided in November.” Clearly that’s a lie; only 27% percent of voting-age Americans voted for Trump. Calling them out on this and other similar lies would go farther to undermine their legitimacy. Something like “In what world does 27% = The People?” but put more cleverly.
I’m not denigrating anything.
KKK fliers were distributed in Augusta and Freeport Maine sometime Sunday night. Gov. LePage says it’s because “the intolerance of the left has gotten to epic proportions…” He also suggests that a constitutional convention is needed to take ” a hard look at other forms of other government.”
I think he meant, “Give it up, libtards, yer dun.”
@lumpkin: Funny how we’re not lockstep true-believers and might even base our opinions on more than single-issues (“Union! Therefore inerrent in all aspects!”). Company made the decisions it chose too. whee. Dosen’t make its cult followers any more admirable.
Prolly beating a dead hog here, but I would like to point out that if someone was to say something along the lines of “in my experience most of [minority group x] display this [undesirable characteristic]” we would rightly view that as unfairly ascribing qualities to a group. I know that HD owners are not a member of a persecuted minority, so I guess I’m just being kinda pedantic.
@chris: What a moron. So it’s liberal ‘intolerance” forcing those poor opporssed KKKers to leave fliers. Pretzel logic.
@debbie: Then start planning to go to Town Halls. Connect with your local legislators, and find out when they are having them. That’s your best, direct way to connect to the people who need to be influenced. Do this because that’s how the Tea Party got Congress good and scared. Do that because it’s working today, to keep them on the run from doing to much damage.
We don’t have a lot of roads for the kind of direct engagement you want to use — not without becoming part of the media yourself, or going into politics, with all the work and compromises that entails. That’s why working with others to amplify your voice — such as protesting — is so critical.
It doesn’t go. It doesn’t stop. It doesn’t turn. Quite the perfect metaphor isn’t it?
@Seth Owen: Hard to believe he’s in his second and last term, put there by the same people that voted for the shitgibbon.
@chris: Don’t forget the assistance of the purity and the both-sides-do-it useful idiots
The Other Bob
Id buy a Harley. I like the Roadster alot and would customize the hell out of it.
It would would go nice with my F150, my rainbow flag and the size p*n#s I am perfectly comfortable with.
@EriktheRed: A couple hundred tonight. Smaller than the Woman’s march the other week but it skewed younger and the people were a lot louder and agitated. I’ll try to submit some photos.