Democrats don’t know how long they’ll be able to keep up the pace of protests against President Donald Trump — and they’re worried Trump and his team are counting on them to run out of energy before the White House does.
Two weeks into the Trump administration, party leaders have already reached a frantic, fevered pitch, throwing around talk of constitutional crisis and raising the specter of impeachment.
“The thing that we don’t want to do is anesthetize the public with dozens and dozens of press conferences and marquee events,” said Seattle Mayor Ed Murray. “Then it’ll just become background noise. I’m worried that’s exactly what they’re trying to maneuver us into doing.”
Look, we can do the time. We can keep it up for years. We can keep it up for eight if necessary. And personally, I’m going to love every minute of it. I’m sad that Trump is doing so much damage to people’s lives and to the future of the country, but what can we do except fight back and have as much fun as we can doing it.
I’m tired of hearing about outrage fatigue. Fuck fatigue! Fatigue only hurts, it never helps. You fight through that shit. Cause fours year from now, when Kirsten Gillibrand is kicking it in the White House…
Here’s what’s going on in my local supermarket.
Ed Murray is the worst kind of neoliberal putz. Totally in the pocket of developers, and then screams NIMBY every time somebody suggests that maybe gentrification is not so good for working people….
Oh, and constantly trying to cut a deal with the Police union to squeeze out the police accountability process, just to consolidate his anticipated 20 year reign.
Every mainstream Democrat must be ignored right now. The Warren Wing has got this.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
As Molly Ivins used to say, quoting Emma Goldman, I don’t want to join a revolution that won’t let me dance. That’s why SNL made me so happy last night, not just Melissa McCarthy’s performance, but the way they kept hammering Steve Bannon. I think keeping his name in the conversation both holds a light on what he’s doing, and will get under the orange skin.
as for protest fatigue, I think Trump will provide more than enough energy to the opposition. I’ll be interested to see if Gorusch gets more attention for his anti-choice views than Roberts and Alito (as I remember it) did. Dave Zirin (sp?) was saying on AM Joy that Planned Parenthood is planning big national marches for next Saturday, but that’s the first I’ve heard of it. I haven’t gotten an email from them in a while, now that I think of it.
Everything we read and saw on networks last fall had the effect of tending toward demoralization. The fact that it is continuing isn’t much of a surprise.
The left is fractured.
They’re being too strident.
Democrats are ineffective.
“Worry about fatigue” or “Can they keep this up?” are what gets pulled out when the left/liberals/Democrats actually appears to be united or otherwise doing well. It’s almost a compliment when they play that particular card.
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
That’s the key. If it were possible for Trump and his Republican allies in Congress to begin behaving like responsible public servants, than protest fatigue might be a real concern if we kept trying to force it. But that, as they say, is unpossible.
That’s just bullshit. Total concern troll.
I did notice over the last few days quite a few comments about taking care of yourself because this very well could go on a long time. The last few weeks have been insane. People do need to take care of themselves or they won’t be able to keep going. Marathon not a sprint.
Here’s a Google doc list of protests for this weekend. See if there’s one in your area!
Republicans kept up their intense outrage about everything Obama did or did not do for 8 full years, replete with permanent congressional obstructionism and fear-mongering out their wazzoos. All of that because a centrist and rather innocuous Democrat remained popular while in the White House.
Trump is already loathed and widely regarded as dangerous. Why would anyone imagine that Americans aren’t capable of standing up to him consistently?
Thru the Looking Glass...
I personally don’t think this will be a problem…
The Trumptonians will continue to do gallingly nasty shite at breath-taking speed, which will continue to enrage the rest of us… I’m starting to wonder if they intend this to be some sort of political blitzkreig (appropriately) and are hoping we get so overwhelmed we’ll just give in…
Ain’t happening where I live… I’ve never seen people so angry and engaged…
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Yes! We must have litmus tests, for a smaller, purer Revolution! Fuck Claire McCaskill. Jon Tester must be primaried! Amy Klobuchar is tepid! Tepid, I say.
Articles such as this one are written by people incapable of standing up to Trump at all. Politico would be perfectly happy covering a dictatorship with lots of gossip-worthy infighting.
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Agree. He also got a Time magazine cover with “The Great Manipulator” caption. It’s going to drive Trump nuts, because he wants all the attention. The worst thing that can happen to Bannon is having the attention focused on him. First it gets people looking at all his evil machinations. But second, and worse for him, it sets him up as manipulating Trump and being the center of attention, which Trump won’t stand for. We need more of it. The SNL portrayal of him as “President Bannon” was great.
Speaking of SNL, Trump hasn’t tweeted about that yet has he? Did someone hide his phone?
It’s only been two weeks and I’m already sick to death of concern-trolling the liberals. Be it by True Lefties or professional centrists. Or worst of all NeverTrumpist Goopers.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Baud: also, too, a couple people have been saying on twitter that Ryan et al are glad of the Fog of Trump because it distracts from their planned assault on the New Deal. While I agree they’re probably glad of that– not that I think it’s all brilliant strategy on their part, they’re just glad of the distraction– people are going to notice that plan. AARP is already running ads of Trump promising to protect social security and Medicare, and old and middle aged people who might not take to the streets over immigration or choice are sure as hell going to let their reps know what they think of an increase in eligibility age or “reform” of benefits.
Giving Bannon all the “credit” for Trump’s excesses probably is the most efficient way of making sure he’s the scapegoat the first time a Trump initiative is well and truly spiked in a humiliating fashion.
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: lol I’m just hoping that a more centrist republican can be elected in my district.
Iowa Old Lady
I do think that the emotional outrage will probably lessen. People need to prepare to demonstrate and resist as a matter of routine.
ETA: I think Moral Mondays succeed because of their routine nature. What they resist is still outrageous, but their resistance doesn’t depend on emotion.
The worst thing for Democrats would be if Trump started acting level-headed and responsible.
As long as he acts like a raging asshole, staying energized shouldn’t be a problem.
I know exactly which Wegmans that is!
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Depends on what they do. If they want to compromise and “deal” with Trump, then they are a net drag. They divide and delegitimate the people actually trying to present a real choice to the American people. And they give Trump power.
So far, some have been very solid. Patty Murray, for example, has been very good. Joe Manchin even came around to opposing Betsy DeVos.
But they are not leading. For leadership, look to Warren. And if you don’t get that, then you are ready for another Iraq Authorization of Force resolution.
Love that woman with her #resist sign. I haven’t seen anything like that in my Southern MD neighborhood but assume that most of us voted against Trump since this is a bluer part of the state. And no, our side should never tire of fighting evil. Just like the other side never tires of hurting people.
That seems like a pretty good price for broccoli!
Potential side benefit: if the MSM starts giving a lot more column inches to SlimeMold Bannon than they do to Shitgibbon, Shitgibbon will freak, maybe get rid of SlimeMold.
Of course, if SlimeMold is one of Vlad’s asshole buddies, Shitgibbon might not be allowed to get rid of him. (I don’t know if SlimeMold is part of that [possible] troika.)
Thru the Looking Glass...
Please let me state the obvious…
Level-headed and responsible?
Simply unpossible and not even worth worrying about…
I’m more worried that he’ll manage to start WW lll, or at the least, get Japan nuked by N Korea…
I’ve never seen people so fired up and pissed off in my local area. I believe we can sustain it.
Question for you peeps who are dialed in with protest organizers like Indivisible: Are you getting subtle and not-so-subtle threats from gun nuts?
You could have stopped here…
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
I think I kind of agree with what you’re suggesting here. Their plan will be shown in a bright spotlight because the entire country is looking at every single thing that is happening. I don’t think there is a fog dense enough to hide behind any longer.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Yarrow: Per Matthew Yglesias and a Dkos guy on twitter today, HRC outperformed him in 21 GOP-held congressional districts, and the creature won with less than 50% in another 17
Mike in NC
Typical bullshit from Politico.
April 15, 2010, the teabaggers kicked off their largely astroturf, media-enabled movement at the state capitol to great hoopla and coverage. They returned twice that year to much decreased crowds and then…bupkis. No do-over the following April 15.
And yet the House flipped that fall and remains the Republican stronghold, so it worked in the larger picture. January’s Women’s March and rally here were much larger and had little advance notice and no corporate media support. We fail to nurture and grow the movement at our peril. The 2020 census and redistricting will be here soon enough.
Jeebus on toast points, how hard is it for our elected dems to just do their god damned jobs. Is it any harder to show up every day in total opposition than to show up every day and collaborate? No. They should be good and god damned lucky that they have a job which enables them to access hot and cold running water, indoor plumbing, vacations and paper pushing instead of starving to death in a refugee camp. Can we keep up the outrage? You are damned right we can keep up the outrage. I can’t NOT keep up the outrage.
Excuse me? WTF ?
Mainstream democrats are the bulk of our party, Kristen Gillebrand is not some radical leftist, EW has been portrayed by the media as some radical leftist who hates big business and the banks, but she is in the mainstream of the democratic party, she just has a bigger megaphone, the right turned her into this eras Nancy Pelosi type bogeyman. Stop this shit, this is one person saying we should keep our powder dry. Wilmer the so-called leader of the progressives, was the first one out there saying we had to work with the Trumperfurer. We do have conservative democrats, because we still do have a big tent, Joe Mancin and Heidi H. are valued members of our party but they are not our leaders, random people urging caution are not the same as the parties leadership, they are entitled to their opinions, and we are entitled to ignore them. The protests have succeeded in showing our actual leadership that we are pissed and not afraid to show it, and that has given them a spin, they are calling him out and resisting. One mayor spouting nonsense does not represent them.
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: We need to tie Trump and the Republicans together. Always. They’ll pretend he isn’t/wasn’t a real Republican. Nope. Republicans = Trump. Destroy their brand.
Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (Formerly Mumphrey, et al.)
Shit. As long as Trump and the Republicans keep doing egregious shit, I’m going to keep calling them out on it. I’m not about to get “fatigued”. This is some serious shit.
Davis X. Machina
@dollared: Politicians don’t lead — they follow. Show me a political movement led by a politician, and I’ll show you either an utter failure or a nascent dictatorship.
I posted last night about the heat Republicans are getting at their townhalls, from the Republican base.
We need to take heart from the fact that nobody wants to have Republican policies aimed at them.
Thats why the GOP is stuck in this endless loop of dithering about the ACA. They know it is popular, and we will win if they fuck with it.
Trump’s mere existence will guarantee that.
@Davis X. Machina: Truth.
@Thru the Looking Glass…:
As someone on twitter put so aptly, they’re shitlords, not Machiavelli.
@Davis X. Machina: always not shocked when the BJ Centrists are out in force making sure we don’t recognize that Warren had this right all along.
Future President Baud’s got jokes.
That’s like saying when our current president can hold a rational, informed conversation without stating one falsehood…….. something, something, something.
Never Gonna Happen.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
of all the heartbreak in the Senate races, the fact that this guy lost by three fucking points, outperforming HRC by 7, may be the worst– though Missouri is Missouri and he might have proved impure from time to time
@Patricia Kayden: My daughter and some friends at St. Mary’s College spent time yesterday painting #Resist on plain tote bags to use while shopping. Maybe you’ll see them around.
There’s a media narrative where ‘pussy hats’ are a distraction, protest is useless, they may be thugs, but they have a point, we all have to swallow our anger and make nice… et cetera. It’s all bullshit. ‘Close your eyes and swallow this‘ is not good advice, ever.
I’m not really a Melissa McCarthy fan (and in fact didn’t recognize who it was), but damn she was genius last night on SNL. Kudos for the attention to detail, especially the ill-fitting suit!
I want to see an engineer in a bunny suit with a “#photoresist” sign.
I guess I used a bad word in a comment. Please liberate me.
@skerry: Great idea! I will do the same!
@Thru the Looking Glass…:
Out on our morning walk today, I saw one of these famous signs in a yard. There are several of Gadsden flag license plates in the area, and while the neighborhood always votes Team D by large margins, one doesn’t usually see much progressive political stuff in yards.
It’s heartening, and even during the depths of W’s Iraq fiasco, it wasn’t as visible.
It’s working. We need to keep at it, and I’m sure we will.
الحقيقة والعدالة والطريقة الأميركية.
Repcons are finally in charge and are getting a very Large dose of reality, the real kind of reality not the bullshit reality they and their minions in the press are used to and are so good at creating. Sad!
@Pika: Which one? One at Pittsford? I’m not sure I could distinguish it from such a little view, and I may only have been at the other original one they expanded (forget the neighborhood. Northish of 12-corners).
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Ugh! So uncivil! Why won’t he reach across the aisle and put himself in Curt’s shoes for even one second?
I see Nancy Pelosi has called for an investigation of Trump’s ties to Russia. Not dancing around it with the “Russian attempts to influence our election” business. It’s “Trump’s ties to Russia”.
@debbie: That bad fitting collar on the shirt and the gap in the jacket had me in stitches.
Ok, wrong thread for the pun but work with me, will ya?
I wonder if Republicans can sustain their Benghazi witch-hunt.
@hovercraft: I said “unpossible.”
By contrast Inslee has been a surprising bad ass.
Thru the Looking Glass...
I agree… I’ve never seen people so enrages/engaged… last time I did see anything like this, it was the Viet Nam era and even that wasn’t quite so wide-spread…
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Corner Stone: his blood-soaked shoes! Hashtag bloody sock. Has jason kander ever had a cut on his ankle?
Thru the Looking Glass...
@Frankensteinbeck: I don’t know if I’d underestimate them quite so much… yes, they’re shit lords AND at least for the moment, they’ve managed to outmaneuver us and seize control of the federal govt… and they’ve been planning this for decades…
As someone once said about Mafia types, they’re not as smart as they would like to be and they do have a certain dog cunning about them…
I actually think there is some merit in the argument that Bannon is trying to get people so fired up that the public becomes immune to protests-or sinks into apathy. The fight against Trump and Trumpism is going to be a long hard slog.
I think it is also worthwhile to look at the fight against apartheid as the model. For one thing, Trump supporters are like the Afrikaners supporting the National Party. They are totally dedicated to the rightness of the Trump cause and don’t want to give an inch on white supremacy and minority rule. They will want to brand the opposition as terrorists-and once Trump gets his Reichstag fire, they will start physically attacking and killing protesters.
Just like with apartheid, protests will not be enough. It will take international pressure, political and economic, as well-and Trump’s adminstration will have to be isolated by the rest of the world community. That is going to be difficult because US is different than S. Africa-but its not impossible. That is what played a big role in bringing down apartheid and it will be necessary to get the attention of the morons.
As will, and I am hesitant to say it, the background idea that violence can come if Trump supporters start attacking protesters. Just like in Vietnam and with civil rights, the idea in the background becomes a huge motivator in and of itself. I am NOT advocating for violence-let me be clear. But until the Trumpites understand that supporting this moron costs them personally, they will not deviate from supporting him.
@socraticsilence: I wasn’t really surprised.
She was hilarious! I loved when she rushed the female reporter with the podium. She did that so well.
@RandomMonster: The pushback on all sides over trumps interview where he praises Putin and dismissed p’s being a killer is getting quite intense…
… it is supposed to air sometime during the Super Bowl so you have to wonder if the White House will scramble to try and get Fox to pull it before all of America hears Trump praising Putin
I’m not worried about energy at all. My wife and I had dinner with two other couples last night and a good chunk of the conversation was devoted to what we need to do going forward.
@dollared: Warren endorsed HRC. She had it right.
I just took a look at a map of Poland and Belarus. The border runs along the Bug River nearly the whole way. What are these Polish troops supposedly doing, swimming?
@Jeffro: It’s amazing. I want every single elected R to be asked about it for the next month.
@Jeffro: Lady Ga Ga will sing a song that will piss off the meat heads, I predict. They’ll also get offended by the Budweiser immigrant commercial; the one where the young German immigrant gets shoved and told to “go back home” before he finally invents the meat heads’ favorite brew.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
more on the House–
@germy: I hope it ruins their super bowl parties, it is the least of what they deserve for supporting this monster
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: see this is the kind of thing that makes me beyond happy … he is so horrible and such a drag on the party that they will have to get rid of him one way or the other and that means instant Republican Civil War
The Dems damn well better be an opposition party. That’s what they’re paid for.
And note I’m leaving out “loyal.”
The US is occupied by an unelected government.
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: I just don’t think we can take any of those as useful any longer. We have to throw out all the BS and just work, donate or both.
@Corner Stone: I want every single R voter to wear it like a badge of shame for a decade or so
Not nearly long enough. Since they are still fighting the Civil War, I want TRUMP branded on their forehead.
@Jeffro: Even worse than dismissing P as a killer, he says America is no better!
@scav: Well, here’s to my ongoing 2017 practice of humility and not going off of instinct! Enlarging the photo tells me that I have no idea WTF I am talking about! I thought it was the East Avenue one!
Fuck Politico. Total bullshit indeed. There are millions of us, and we are in it for the long haul.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Corner Stone: I’m not counting chickens– the incumbency bias is still huge, and I think recruiting candidates will be even harder than funding them. And I have no idea where those districts are and what their broader make up is. Just pointing out that there is potential for an upside out there
ETA: and the Senate map sends me right back to my usual crepe-hanging state of mind.
@Jeffro: It’s suppose to air at four, which is a tad early, imo.
@germy: Audi has a commercial about equal pay for women.
We’ll cross that bridge when we come to it. But I can’t remember seeing a single case of a country where millions of people regularly protesting was considered to be background noise, so I’m not too worried about it happening here.
This seems like a good thread to ask, I want to work up a regular call list for my reps, what are some of y’all doing? Are you, for instance, following alerts from anyone?
People like MaryG have been really inspiring to me with the way she’s dedicated herself to constantly nipping at Issa’s ass, but all my reps are solid libs. If I call every week, do I become the crank they ignore? Do I call anyway just to add to the volume? My health right now won’t allow for going to demonstrations, but I’ll be there when it does. And I’m giving some thought to picking my spot for the long fight, and it might be voting. Anybody have a favourite org or one you’re already working with?
I heard gossip on another site from someone with an alleged congressional staffer friend. They said all the Republicans and even some of the Dems think the protest fury will blow over and, so, they’re just turning off their phones and ignoring email until it dies down. Given that burnout is inevitable, I wish there were some organized way to come at this in waves. I think we’ve got enough people total to keep the pressure constant if we’re not all riding the same wave.
@JPL: as long as it airs, I’m happy
@dollared: so is she our new Savior, to be discarded as soon as she does something progressives don’t like?
mai naem mobile
Was this shit ever said about the Teabaggers who BTW were just astroturf garbage with a healthy dose of racism. This ass hole didn’t even win a majority of the popular vote and is doing all kinds of extreme shit.
J R in WV
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
I think anyone with parents or G-parents receiving or nearing the age to receive Social Security and Medicare will be out in the streets the moment the R’s Fuck with the program. Partly because most people’s only other choice is the old folks moving in with them. That would have been one thing with a big old farmhouse with 7 tiny bedrooms, with with a 2 bedroom townhouse condo being pretty much top end for suburban housing, not quite the same thing at all.
My Grandma, who was so swell her son-in-law loved her and would have happily had her move in, was bound and determined to never move in with her kids! And never had to, what with her pensions and Social Security and all. Everyone, including me and Mrs J would have been happy to have her move in.
Not all Grandmas are like that, tho. Or Moms. My MIL was a toxic narcissist, would have moved in with us in a flash, but NOT AN OPTION!
I don’t want to shit on anyone’s efforts to organize, but I think that there are a lot of organizers who are overlooking some critical logistical issues, namely timing. I have seen a great deal of justified complaints that white people aren’t showing up at BLM marches. In my city, there hasn’t been a BLM march that wasn’t on a weekday or a late evening, like 8 pm. For those that work or have families, that is usually a dealbreaker. The decentralization is also a problem, because there is this douchebag in the community named Jarrett Maupin who organizes dangerous marches (including blocking FREEWAYS without permits) and is a huge asshole, and he brands some of his events as BLM, while other organizers say that he sucks and not to go to his events, but to go to REAL BLM marches.
I think that the resistance will and must continue, but only if we get AND KEEP our shit together. Organization is key. There is a lot of positive energy, and not always a place to put it.
I honestly find it fascinating.
My personal strategy is to not participate in every protest, because I just don’t have the time or energy for that. I went to the Women’s March because that was the first massive march out of the gate, so to speak. From now on, generally speaking, I’ll focus on environmental and science issues, like the March for Science planned for Earth Day (April 22). I may or may not go to the one in DC; would prefer to march in Seattle, but so far haven’t heard anything from a local organizing group. (I signed up to volunteer, once we have an organizer.)
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
I think that’s a mistake. Waiting until you are sick and need to go to the Dr to find out how many chickens you have for payment is super freaking risky for your long term recovery and health needs.
Yesterday, Senator Ron Wyden held a town hall in blood red Linn County, Oregon where Hillary lost by 26 points. They had over 1500 people in attendance with the vast majority being extremely supportive of Wyden’s performance in the past few weeks. There were even calls for impeachment from the crowd. Albany had never seen such a huge crowd for a senator’s town hall even in the middle of the tea party madness in 2009-2010. I know because I’ve attended more than a few of them in the past 10 years, but unfortunately couldn’t go to the one yesterday. I am so encouraged by the crowds that are attending all of the town halls here in Oregon where our senators are being told to stand strong against this “administration” and its edicts. If 1500 people can show up to a town hall in support of one of the more liberal senators in this deeply Republican county, I know we can sustain the protests indefinitely.
@scav: I was going to guess Pittsford, but I’m not sure that’s right – there should be a right turn a little behind that woman to get to the pharmacy.
I think you’re thinking of the East Avenue Wegmans which is a little past 12 Corners.
John should sell t-shirts with Steve’s picture on them and the word RESIST under.
It will last. Went for my run on the Quay today. There was a lone protester in front of the Central Bank with a sign that said “Jail all the bankers.” Then I saw a sign for a rally to “repeal the 8th.” That’s the “life begins at conception” amendment to the Irish constitution. Passed in 1983. Keep steady. Keep strong. Ironically, birth control is widely available here. Even “plan B” as they call it in America. Here it is called EllaOne. Available in any pharmacy over the counter for a government set price of 35 Euros. If you have a medical card 2.50 Euros. They are WAY ahead of America on this stuff.
Jebus! There are ignorant racist fucks who nurtured their Obama hate for both his terms, holding onto the bullshit that the Kenyan Usurper was not the legitimate president.
And what about the asswipes who stewed in Clinton hate for 25 years.
I still wake up and wonder first thing, how did that ignorant muthafucker Trump get elected president.
Steve Rogers: Doctor Banner, now might be a good time for you to get angry.
Bruce Banner: That’s my secret, Captain: I’m always angry.
Gin & Tonic
@Corner Stone: Well, it’s true. Don’t you recall when Obama had Sean Hannity poisoned?
If nothing else, it shows his total obliviousness to how his words might be taken.
I have never heard of this person before but fuck him and his tedious concern trolling.
@Brachiator: I still wake up afraid that President Bannon has ordered Trump to announce the invasion of a country, by way of tweet.
@Yarrow: Yarrow, you asked the other day if local organizers hired by the DNC will be from their communities or from outside. I couldn’t ask the question at the Detroit DNC Future Forum yesterday, but, the Chair of the Michigan Democratic Party says that in Michigan they will be local people.
Whatcho talking about, Willis? “BJ centrists”. Elizabeth Warren has contributed much to the democratic party and I imagine she’ll continue. However, this tendency to imbue a single person with the mark of slavish cultism echoes right wing authoritarianism with counterproductive divisiveness. Comments like yours is why I don’t ant you in mu foxhole.
Speaking to the larger post, I’m not concerned about keeping up the protests. More likely, the other side will tire of having to defend his ever escalating offensive assault on our constitution. For every person who experiences burn-out, there will be multiple folks to take their place as more and more Americans relate and apprehend the damage he’s inflicting at home and in the world.
Thru the Looking Glass...
@Mj_Oregon: Same thing happened yesterday in Roseville, a Sacramento suburb, at a town hall held by Tom McClintock (R) in California’s 4th Congressional district.
Very, very red territory… large, raucous crowd… McClintock ended the town hall early and was escorted by the police from the theater hosting the event…
If people have some expertise in a particular issue, like health care, the environment, some element of foreign relations, etc., they would do well to focus on the protests/lobbying/phone calling related to that issue, as they will be better spokespeople than a layperson such as myself.
Some people always want to ascribe magical powers to Republican strategists. Bannon is some mystical Prince of Darkness. Karl Rove was a mastermind who the Democrats could never hope to defeat.
Trump’s election was a narrow margin fluke. And people are reacting to real failures in this administration. Folks need to keep up the pressure.
Adam Silverman’s friend, Tom Nichols is concern-trolling with an almost identical POV in the WashPost.
@Mj_Oregon: Bad link. Try this:
They’re already shitting briques. MY RWNJ cousins on FB are livid.
“They will know, and they will never trust you again.”
And so with the centrist Democratic officials. The Democrats have been losing since they received a crushing defeat from Reagan back in1980. Moderate Democratic elected officials, like Murray just want the normal business of politics: policy negotiation and the business of governance. They went along and got along. But it was unequal; the Democrats gave ground and kept giving ground, until they were reduced to a few strongholds, and now they have lost everything. They’re still trying, too. We have Democratic Senators voting to approve Trump’s awful Cabinet appointees. Not going to work; they will get no concessions.
Well the Trump supporters are fighting back with a counter protest. In Portland a whole dozen of them showed up. New York City really showed the strength of the movement with a whole 150 (if we’re being generous) protestors.
Great comment over at LGM:
Which is great, the democrats should keep the pressure up, they must repeat that he has deep ties to Russia in every TV appearance, brand him as Putin’s lap dog. The GOP will resist, but that too can be a boon to the good guys. As @Baud: points out, Chafetz has said that there is still more to investigate there, we need to know what happened in Benghazi!
I was worried about fatigue, but am less so now. In the past this felt like an effort by the engaged few on behalf of a large apathetic democratic base, but a LOT of this is being driven by people that were not previously engaged, that are out there doing this for the first time. I have one group of acquaintances that never did a single political activity that are now at our reps office every single day. I can casually ask almost anyone I know ‘are you participating in x’ random political event and they know what I’m talking about. Trump and Congress are doing a pretty good job of keeping everyone engaged. Maybe the courts will slow that down, and I trust Congress will settle down, but Trump won’t. And at some point here, if Congress does slow down on repealing Obamacare, we may see the tea party folks re-emerge and start giving them shit.
It’s almost like these memes get launched in RW thinktanks…
@germy: Some BS curious folks were floating the same shit here in the comment section, with stuff like game theory thrown in, last week.
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: I see Curt is staying classy.
The Trumpenfuror must become the GOPs brand. There is no divorcing themselves from him, they ALL voted for him, they are ALL supporting his nominees, they OWN him. This is not a temporary thing, the Tea Party eat them, they became the Tea Party, the moderates are in lock step with him, they ARE HIM!! To shed this identity they will need to stop being crazy, they don’t get to suddenly say that they are not with him when they vote with him despite any protestations, this is our job, fuck the media and their both sides bullshit, get people tp see that it’s the entire party that is now batshit crazy, on top of which they all want to take your healthcare away, empower Wall Street to bankrupt us again, and take away all our environmental protections, while slashing our wages and retirement accounts. They are ALL evil, because they are ALL participating in this rape and pillage of our country.
This kind of shit is tiresome. What, are you more left, and so supposedly more correct? Whup di goddam doo.
Trump is the adversary. The rest is bullshit.
What they actually have done is bad enough.
And I’m not even sure where this stuff about Bannon as Trump’s Rasputin has come from. Before the election, some were pushing for Pence as the power behind the throne. I really don’t care. All of them must go.
In my ideal world, we get a replay of Nixon/Agnew. Some scandal results in Pence having to resign, and then Trump is impeached.
We are what, two weeks in and there are people worried about ‘protest fatigue!?’
For the love of God. Did MLK Jr. worry about protest fatigue? Did the Civil Rights Act or VRA drop out of the sky in a week? Did the abolitionists worry about protest fatigue? How about Nelson Mandela? Did Sam Adams, John Hancock or Thomas Paine act as if everything would get better overnight?
Look, this problem has been developing for a long time. Trump just brought the crisis to a head. Anybody who thinks things are going to ‘go back to normal’ anytime soon really have another think coming. This will be hard. This will be long. People are going to get hurt. This is literally as serious as a heart attack. This is likely to be the biggest crisis in American history in my lifetime, and I lived through Civil Rights, Vietnam and Nixon.
I don’t want to hear about protest fatigue. I have no doubt there will be fresh outrages enough to keep us going. Bannon and his ilk didn’t get this close without being ruthless pricks. They can’t stop now. All they have going for them is momentum. This is why they are pushing so hard, so fast. They know their shit is weak and unpopular and can’t win a legitimate contest.
If you, personally, need to take a break, do so. I’m not planning on going to every protest, argue with every Trumpkin I run across, write to my representatives on every single issue. I’ll pick and choose. Others will pick up the slack on the days I can’t, just as I will pick up the slack for them.
Because it can’t be said enough before people start to internalize this.
Bitching about TPP doesn’t do a goddamn thing about this problem. Improving high school eduction might – a bit. Getting the public to not look down so much on 2 year trade schools would help (would also help if they weren’t for-profit scams most of the time) but at some point this country needs to see this problem head-on, and it’s clear from this last election that we aren’t.
This story is from 10 years ago:
That’s also where the coal jobs went – to people with degrees because the job changed that much. Are we going to see an increase in education funding and an expansion of college seats? Under Clinton or Sanders we would have, but not under Trump. We’ll see a decline under Trump. This will get worse, not better. If we can’t hire H1Bs to do some of these jobs, then you’ll see the industry simply leave.
Have we added any industrial engineering programs in the US in the last 10 years? Nope.
Exactly, focus on your area of concern/expirience and or passion. No one has the time or energy to do every one, but we all have time to do some of them. BLM and opposing DeVos are top of my list, saving Obamacare I suspect will bring out a lot more people than the R’s expect when they get around to trying to repeal it, much like the attempt to give away National Parks, sparked such a vicious backlash that they backed off, protests work. I care about a many things, but I can’t get out for everything, the Planned Parenthood protests this week I hope are huge, and I hope to get out for that locally. Local and regional protests are just as effective as the big ones in DC, it scares them when they see this happening in their own backyards.
@? Martin: We could easily import 30,000 skilled engineers who wanted to immigrate here–they would have taken advantage of their excellent educational systems at home, just as our foreign doctors do. There is more than one way to skin a cat. But red state americans who won’t pay for good public education and don’t value higher education are simply not going to get those jobs.
OT but Das Fuhrer is off the golfcourse and back on twitter
Why not just paint a target on the judge’s back. Sounds like incitement to me
Oh, me too! Because he wasn’t denying Putin is a killer, he was shrugging it off, almost saying “Isn’t everybody?”
Man, it REALLY makes me start to wonder! When a husband or boyfriend says, “All men cheat”, you know they’re a cheater. When your boss tells you that “everyone bribes the building inspector”, you know he’s bribing the building inspector. So when Trump as good as says that “everyone’s a killer”…. Dang.
@JPL: A Steve t-shirt that says RESIST? I’ll be first in line to order.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
there ya go, that’s what it’s all about. As wild-eyed leftist Dan Drezner said yesterday, they are hoping for an attack.
Yeah, that need to invest emotionally in heroes and villains– traitorous “centrists!”– may be the most tiresome thing about emo-progs.
@Raven Onthill: that’s some stupid fucking gibberish, even considering the source
@? Martin: I had added this to an earlier threat but seemes relevent. A commentor added that Boeing’s experience hasn’t been all that positive on the 787 program, what with overseas vendors not performing up to spec. Thery are finding that ‘if you want it done right the first time do it yourself’
He talks like what’s happened is that they’re now just waving in anyone who wants to come. This is just a return to the normal procedures and wide open borders is NOT the normal procedure.
Has anyone else noticed RWNJs continuing to push their “Hillary is history’s greatest monster” arguments? I just encountered someone who thought it was clever to bring up both the Clinton Foundation and Benghazi! on Facebook. (This same guy has been telling “libs” to get over the election.)
I’m surprised he hasn’t gone after the 9th Circuit yet.
@Bex: I wish he would, because the money would go for a good cause, and I’d wear it with pride.
@Joyce H: Reichstag, although twitter said he could referring to the Bowling Green incident.
@Joyce H: Between his history and his moral disorders, at the least he has all the ingredients.
My how the Right is always, ALWAYS so full of fear…
@Joyce H: He’s jist trying to preeserve ‘Mercan jobs for ‘merkan men, traditional red-blooded manly jobs that ‘mekans do best. all those ferriners, coming in here and stealing ‘merkan murders and mass killings. Damn all, “You think our country’s so innocent?” Damn Straight! We can and will kill our own! This’ll be a protected game preserve for NRA-approved all-merkan shootings by traditional merkan means by traditional ‘merkan Waspms, the way the founding fathers wanted it. Don’t need to fancy-smanshy high-school reading and riting education for this all-mercan job!
@Joyce H: honestly white people. They don’t hand our visas like paper towels in the bathroom. And they never have.
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Yes, better the theoretical progressive Democrat we won’t get into office then the ones that are already there and can be pushed!
@randy khan: Your assuming that he knows the difference between the district level judge and the appellate division. He was complaining yesterday that DOJ wasn’t filing the appeal in Boston.
John Kasich is having none of this Putin bullshit:
@D58826: ‘manufacturing’ (as defined by ?) IIRC is now a smaller part of GDP than 30-50 years ago NOT because manu work has collapsed but because the ‘non manufacturing’ parts of the economy- service, financial, etc has grown at a faster rate. Manufacturing contributes approx the same inflation adjusted dollar value to GDP as previously. Manu job numbers have collapsed because of automation and offshoring, but mostly from automation. Any improvement thru industrial policy would be marginal.
You know, I despise that guy, but I don’t consider him un-American. He does seem to have a true love of country. He stands out because so many in his party have none.
The Fat Kate Middleton
@Betty Cracker: Betty – Im with Indivisible Iowa in the south central part of the state, my son with II in NE Iowa. No threats, veiled or otherwise, so far.
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: OT but gotta vent.
Just saw Wilmer on CNN-I normally am pretty reasonable and let things go, but jeebus I hate that guy.
@Brachiator: I remember those good old days.
Wait what? I thought that he was elected to not be like the evil naif Obama who spent all his time apologizing for America when he wasn’t out on the golf course sucking up precious tax payer monies on SS protection for him and his wife. Now here he is not only apologizing for America via Obama being such a weak and terrible president, he’s saying that we are guilty of murdering people, he’s playing golf, and his son is racking up huge hotel expenses on his SS while he travels on behalf of the family coffers. Where is the change, they demanded, and why aren’t his fans up in arms? What’s that, he’s white, oh never mind.
@p.a.: That’s why I said the problems of the WWC and ‘decline’ of manufacturing jobs had many causes. The problem isn’t going to be solved by Trump yelling at Carrier. And even that only saved half the jobs at the cost to the taxpayers of a multi-million dollar handout. And just to rub it in Carrier is going to use that money to enhance their automated facilities with the result that more people will be laid off. As my Mother used to say that that is S+t on the taxpayer and then rubbing it in.
@Mj_Oregon: I’m sorta gobsmacked by this:
So, were these attendees Hillary voters or Trump voters? How did the county vote in 2012 and 2008?
@D58826: Something similar with GE a few years ago.
There’s a lot of variables at play here. Loss of talent here in the US at the lower levels, products becoming more advanced and therefore playing back into the hands of US engineering, etc. But the message is to not blame the trade deals for this – blame the strategic planning in the US. That’s the thing China does that is killing us. In order to attract manufacturing to China, they built a port that is vastly more modern than anything in the US – both for air and ship freight, highly automated, streamlined customs, etc. Chinese universities are coming to us with cash in hand to build programs within their country. US universities are expanding educational programs inside China because China is willing to pay for them, but the US will not put forward grant money to do it. We have programs with the Chinese government to educate their students in key engineering disciplines. Their government gives us a certain number of full ride fellowships in those disciplines that we can fill with Chinese nationals. We won’t do that here. China is just handing us money to train their future workers, and handing us money to build their future universities so they won’t need to come to us any longer.
@Pika: our Wegmans on Sheridan Drive was a bit more sedate today
@hovercraft: And we also pay for Melania to continue living in NY and it taking two planes to get the family to Fla. Don’t understand why she could not have flown into JBA and then boarded AF1 for the rest of the trip.
@JPL: I’d buy a couple as well.
@dww44: I’d love to know what the turnout was in Linn County. Did the Fingerpuppet win by 26 points because of low turnout? If so, the people showing up at the town hall could be folks who didn’t vote and are now, as they say, “woke.”
That’s what little people do.
@? Martin: Oh, and there’s this bit also:
One week to clear customs? Why? Amazon can get you any product they carry within 48 hours. I got something from them that came from the neighboring state 5 hours after I ordered it. A week is a lifetime now in supply chains.
@CaseyL: What the tea party taught us is that you don’t need a majority of voters to show up at the town hall, just the loudest 2% that opposed the individual. I don’t care how lopsided your victory was, there’s enough people in your district who voted against you to shut down your event. The only question is whether they are pissed off enough to show up or not.
Iowa Old Lady
I’m just back from our local protest against the ban and the wall. The organizers said there were between 1800 and 2K people there. The Patriots for Christ demonstrated across the street but the cops kept us apart and the organizers kept urging us not to engage. It’s February in Iowa, so they had the permit for only an hour. My toes are still numb.
@J R in WV:
My problem is not worrying about parents/grandparents needing a place to stay, they now have no need for running water, etc. Mine is worrying about who/where do I get to live if it all turns to shit. Most of my friends are in the same boat for the same reasons.
@janeform: Thank you for asking and for posting what you found out! I hope Kay sees your response.
Exactly this. I had the same worries early on (by which I mean, perhaps, two weeks ago) but now am certain that the engagement and momentum are there for the long haul.
@martian: Try 5calls.org
Now that his political career is over, he’s standing on principle. Better late than never, I guess.
That’s a fair point – I shouldn’t assume he knows anything, despite all the time he’s spent in court.
Why shouldn’t supply and demand work for wages?
Maybe there really isn’t demand for new IE grads at a wage that HS graduates are willing to accept when it is time to choose a field?
Puckermob has a bunch of numbers for various occupations. IEs are listed as 8th in starting salary. “Industrial Technology” which I take to be an AA degree, only starts at $10k less than a 4 year IE degree. Why would someone spend the extra money to get the 4 year degree? Why wouldn’t they pick another degree all together?
America is a big country and people can and do move across the country when there are good opportunities. My step-mom went to a small women’s-only college in Mississippi. She was recruited at the college and trained by Boeing in Seattle to do computer programming. In the 1960s.
If companies really need people, they will raise their wages to encourage them to enter those lucrative degree programs, and they will train recent graduates and people laid off from related fiedls to do the work that needs to be done. If they continue to whine that they can’t find someone to start being productively instantly on taking the job while refusing to pay what the market demands, then they’ll continue to show that they’re not being serious.
@David Spikes: Who is Wilmer?
@Bex: What I want is a Pogo shirt with “We have met the enemy and it is us” on it.
The Fat Kate Middleton
@Iowa Old Lady: So glad you could do this. My sister (who lives there, but couldn’t attend) said it was a much bigger crowd than anticipated. I’m having health challenges at the moment, would have been at the event in Iowa City otherwise. I’ve signed up for the Planned Parenthood event here in my city later this month – fingers crossed that I can do it! Again, thanks for doing this.
@ellie: A certain 70 year old white haired guy from a small state who likes to yell and point a lot.
We have been using that term to foil certain trolls that seem to show up when his name is mentioned (apparetly as the result of a “google alert” notification).
The Fat Kate Middleton
@Smiling Mortician: Exactly what I was about to post – great website!
Feel the Bern. It’s Bern. Bernie Sanders.
Iowa Old Lady
@The Fat Kate Middleton: At one point, a drone flew overhead. I’ve never seen one before. I don’t know if it was from a news organization or what.
The Fat Kate Middleton
@Iowa Old Lady: Really?! In Iowa?!! I think that’s a good possibility.
@Smiling Mortician: Thank you so much for the 5calls.org tip! I haven’t googled around to learn about them yet, but their page is sooo easy to use.
For anybody interested, you just input your zip code, they give you a list of issues to choose from, you click on oppose DeVos, or oppose the Muslim ban, etc., and a page pops up with an issue summary, the representative you need to call, the number, and a suggested call script. You can also input the action you took. If you have any kind of phone phobia or social anxiety holding you back, this might be your ticket to activism. I always have this anxiety that I’ll be struck stupid while trying to make my point to a live person, and then I will definitely fail the surprise pop quiz thus bringing shame and discredit to the cause, but I seriously felt my anxiety level dropping while going over their topic summaries and scripts. The script on Gorsuch needs to be tweaked to better target a Dem, that’s my only criticism so far. Other than that, I’m actually excited to use this. Oh, and I didn’t have to give up an email – I liked that. I’ll do that later when I feel ready.
Thanks again, Smiling Mortician!
Everyone damn well ought to be fucking afraid. Houses in my nice polite 55/45 GOP neighborhood are flying black flags. These folks are really slow to anger, and now have steam coming out of their ears. They aren’t going to cool down because of calls for comity from the villagers, or to maximize Democratic Party prospects next year.
Flip Congress, kick jackass to the curb, whatever, the beast is out of the box.
@Another Scott: Thanks! That is who I thought it was but wasn’t sure.
@Corner Stone: you said his name three times! YOU HAVE DOOMED US ALL!!
Very moving video, the story of two refugees – bring kleenex. Let’s face it. Bannon and Trump want them both dead.
Speaking of “resistance”, JJMacNab reminds us that the first of three Bundy Bunch trials starts Monday.
And the FBI set up a fake film production company and got several of the principles as “interviews”…
It’ll be interesting to see how the cases are handled under Trump’s people… :-/
The sociopaths in his Cabinet haven’t even begun to do their damage…
THAT is what will keep the outrage going
@Brachiator: In my ideal world, this goes the way of HItler in his Bunker. Trumpistein manages to off himself and makes it a murder suicide with Pence and his family. Because the gene pool needs some chlorine.
Focus!! That’s how they get you!
@randy khan: I get this at work all the time … when I try to pin them down on what EXACTLY Clinton did … all I get is crickets, or repetition. There isn’t any there there, and there never was. It is an appeal to the lizard brain, and it would take a backhoe to dig it out.
@dollared: Warren is awesome, so is Ed Markey, but I’m not sure they’ve got a “wing” or are that non-mainstream.
Yes, and some hard-to-classify anarchist/Ron Paulist/nihilist types are doing it too.
The US under George W. Bush? At least, I remember a lot of complaints that the massive antiwar protests were like a fart in a windstorm for all the attention they got.
(There’s a difference between Bush and Trump, though: Bush could ignore people hating him and protesting him. He didn’t give a shit. Trump can’t let it go–it drives him up the wall, and the protests get attention as a result.)
Fuck fatigue. The woman’s march on 1/21 in Seattle was joyful. I’ve rarely felt so much positive energy. I can’t wait to get back out there – more protests, please!
In eight years, what are you going to do if Trump’s designated minion is elected, or if Trump declares himself dictator for life?
I’ve never been a fan of Brand USA (‘my country right or wrong’), but I’ll be fighting for a real representative democracy here for the rest of my life. But the rights and liberties of Americans isn’t all I’m fighting for. Considering US technological and financial resources, think about what would happen to the whole planet if Americans allow our representative democracy to give way to a fascist dictatorship.
The only people I know of who are tired of this fight are the so-called leaders of the Democratic Party. Let’s call and tell them that if they’re tired of the battle, they need to resign immediately to make way for more energetic and dedicated leadership.
Yeah, we’re just getting started.
Sort of OT, I guess — Scientists March on Washington set a date. April 22nd. I know I’m not the only science-type around these parts, and a Balloon Juice contingent would be nice.
@Another Scott: “Why shouldn’t supply and demand work for wages?”
Because the labor market is not an abstract perfectly competitive market.
@? Martin: Truth…