Kanye West deletes all tweets defending Trump meeting https://t.co/vwyi9Ejxke
— Hunter Schwarz (@hunterschwarz) February 6, 2017
Hey, GOP! Is this how you planned to entrench your ‘permanent majority’?
Oh, look, they’re dragging out the Reagan administration leftovers…
Imagine the bottomless pit of need and affirmation that exists in someone who became president and gets this upset.
— Jamelle Bouie (@jbouie) February 6, 2017
So many people still don’t get it; for him success is adulation & vengeance; others’ notions of “success” is incomprehensible to narcissists pic.twitter.com/3SRyZJIayb
— Dana Houle (@DanaHoule) February 6, 2017
Regarding how narcissists interact with the world, think of the ego as a bank account. Every interaction is meant to increase the balance. https://t.co/PmquBSSQPi
— Josh Grubbs (@JoshuaGrubbsPhD) February 6, 2017
The narcissist can't tolerate withdrawals. It's an all-take and no-give dynamic. So, when withdrawals occur, that balance must be recovered.
— Josh Grubbs (@JoshuaGrubbsPhD) February 6, 2017
This is where vengeance comes in. If the person won't publicly apologize and give the withdrawal back, then it must be extracted by force
— Josh Grubbs (@JoshuaGrubbsPhD) February 6, 2017
It’s not unusual that Trump’s approval ratings sagged. It’s unusual that they’re this low. https://t.co/TmXP0A22Hp
— Washington Post (@washingtonpost) February 6, 2017
Major Major Major Major
Today, I’m hoping that the combination of incompetence, clashing agendas, and Trump’s apparent inability to do anything that would increase his likability will be our salvation.
Some days I worry that this particular combination will be our downfall. Some days I worry that it’s actually only one facet of what they’re doing, and that while we’re distracted Ryan will ram through the destruction of the social contract that Trump will sign without reading. Today, though, hoping that the combination will sink Trump and the GOP with him.
And it’s OK to feel hopeful every now and then!
JordanRules
This should end well.
Alain the site fixer
@JordanRules: no, it won’t.
Mnemosyne
I’m trying to remember, did Kanye meet with Trump before or after he landed in the psych ward for evaluation?
Either way, it doesn’t exactly look like the decision of a rational man.
dm
@Major Major Major Major: I actually think that Trump’s good relations with Putin means that the nuclear exchange will be limited. So there’s that to be, uh, “cheerful” about.
Mnemosyne
So, my fellow knitters and crocheters, I’m trying to decide on a good yarn to use for a summer-weight pussyhat. 100 percent cotton? Cotton/modal blend? Cotton/linen? One that includes Outlast for sweat control?
Thru the Looking Glass...
Somehow, there’s something… unpleasant… about putting the name ‘Trump’ in the same sentence w/ the idea of ‘shrinkage’…
Just saying…
NotMax
@dm
Time to call 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue the White Dacha yet?
mouse tolliver
And the Yemen raid was a bigger disaster than initially reported because their target escaped, and now he’s making fun of Donald Trump.
Trump’s version of Zero Dark Thirty is literally in the dark because they haven’t figured out how to turn the lights on. Literally. Literally can’t figure out how the lights work. I just can’t get over that.
Adam L Silverman
I’m not really sure who I’m supposed to be rooting for here…
Darrin Ziliak (formerly glocksman)
@Adam L Silverman: Mutual Assured Destruction?
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Adam L Silverman: O”Relly getting all full of himself and up on his soapbox fulminating about how bad Putin is will really get under the Orange.
Adam L Silverman
@mouse tolliver: What’s even more worrisome is that based on the reporting the SecDef and CJCS have figured out how to get him to commit to something. The reporting I saw on MSNBC, based on NBC’s earlier reporting, is that both Secretary Mattis and Gen. Dunford made the pitch that 1) this is a high value target and capturing/killing him would be of enormous benefit and 2) that they did not believe that President Obama would have been willing to take the risk to capture/kill him. Its this last part that shows they’ve already figured out how to manipulate him: make the pitch that President Obama wouldn’t have had the courage to make the call.
This is dangerous.
Adam L Silverman
@Darrin Ziliak (formerly glocksman): Sure.
jayjaybear
@Adam L Silverman: Injuries. You should be rooting for injuries.
Viva BrisVegas
@dm:
Do you mean limited to California?
Whose nukes will get there first?
dm
@mouse tolliver: I’ve been in modern conference rooms with whizzy computer-controlled (lights, screens, blinds) everything, all run by a cryptic touch-screen display. So I can sympathize with them a little on that front.
Darrin Ziliak (formerly glocksman)
At this point I don’t know whether I should be pleased that Dolt 45’s administration is evil & incompetent instead of evil & competent, or frightened to death that tRump’s big ego and small hands will tweet a check that the US can’t cash.
oklahomo
@Adam L Silverman: Injuries.
ETA: Looks like injuries win by acclamation.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
also undermines the Trumpian case, aka a lie, that the whole thing was Obama’s idea
FlipYrWhig
@Adam L Silverman: I noticed that too. All you have to do, apparently, is say that the option you like would be bitchin’ and manly, definitely manlier than that last wuss would ever have the guts to try. Trump is so infantile.
NotMax
@Adam L. Silverman
Don’t forget to chew well. One can choke on popcorn.
;)
Thru the Looking Glass...
@Adam L Silverman: At first, I’d reckon Putin was pretty pleased w/ the outcome, helping install the Mango Mousselini in the WH ‘n all…
But even he might be having a bit of buyer’s remorse by now…
AnneW
@Mnemosyne: I’m thinking of using Cascade Yarns Fixation for summer weight p-hats. 98% cotton for cool plus 2% elastic to combat sag.
Omnes Omnibus
@Adam L Silverman: Murder-suicide.
Timurid
@Adam L Silverman: Wasn’t Mattis supposed to be grownup in the room, not the enabler?
Alternative Fax, a hip hop artist from Idaho
@Adam L Silverman: I thought Mattis was the voice of reason in this circus. WTF?
FlipYrWhig
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Still allows for the possibility that, the way they see it, it was something Obama discussed but was obviously too chicken to do.
GregB
O’Reilly better be on the lookout for a poisoned loofah.
Cacti
Mattis supports expanding NATO. The Donald won’t be pleased. Vlad definitely won’t be pleased.
Mike in NC
@Adam L Silverman: It’s inevitable that Trump will drag us into a pointless war in the Middle East as well as bring on economic ruin here at home. Every Republican president since 1900 has been a disaster in this regard.
Adam L Silverman
@jayjaybear: I always do.
lamh36
???someone on twitter suggested Ellen Degeneres to play Mike Pence!! Mulit-layered trolling
Adam L Silverman
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Yep, but that was a given.
Adam L Silverman
@FlipYrWhig: From the reporting they apparently pitched the idea as being the biggest op since taking down bin Laden. They played him like a fiddle. High risk means high reward if things go right. But the intel, by all reports, was sketchy. The element of surprise was lost. And, as always, the enemy got a vote and they voted no.
Adam L Silverman
@Thru the Looking Glass…: Yep. Buyer’s remorse. Putin will learn with the current President what every American president learns in regard to Israel: it is not a lot of fun when the client actually believes its the patron.
Alternative Fax, a hip hop artist from Idaho
@Omnes Omnibus:
Lizzy L
@Mike in NC: Pointless war in the Middle East, or utterly totally completely pointless hostilities-to-the-brink-of-war with China.
I’ll take pointless wars for $1000, Alex.
ETA: I don’t want either of these things to happen. But SecDef might have a preference. Just sayin’.
Omnes Omnibus
@Alternative Fax, a hip hop artist from Idaho: He probably has.
lamh36
@Adam L Silverman: not at all surprised though…dude is obsessed with Obama i mean that obsession is likely what even lead him to run for President
sukabi
@Adam L Silverman: pretty sure the only response ?in will get is “fuck off killer”
Adam L Silverman
@Timurid: @Alternative Fax, a hip hop artist from Idaho: I think Secretary Mattis has a much higher willingness to assume risk to achieve reward than the past several Secretaries of Defense. This is likely the result of him spending a lot of time in combat. I’m not trying to suggest he disregards risk and doesn’t value the lives of the troops, rather we will have to see if he can make the shift to a bigger picture than simply “if we can take this objective, it will have a high degree of reward in achieving our strategic objectives”. So while he is, among everyone chosen for a position at this point, the adult in the room, 1) you have to consider the room and 2) have to remember who he is a Marine that has spent the last 15 years of his career at war in one assignment or another.
debbie
My local news just spent a segment refuting Trump’s assertion that terroristic attacks (including two in Columbus OH) weren’t covered by the media. Not only were there wall-to-wall local reports, but the local reporters also did numerous segments for other networks and stations in other states. Trump’s going to regret bringing this up.
Adam L Silverman
@Mike in NC: @Lizzy L: If they are so stupid as to try to crack Iran, they are completely insane. And if they keep playing stupid games with China they are going to be very sorry.
Thru the Looking Glass...
@Lizzy L:
Well… with Trump already nixing the TTP, I’d assume China will be delighted to fill that gaping hole in the Asian trade arena… package that up w/ the rapid alienation of Western European countries…
I’ve read in the past that more than one country would love to replace the dollar as the standard of exchange around the world… don’t know how realistic that is and if it should happen, I can’t imagine it would bode well for this country…
sigaba
Trump is the perfect model of a libertarian human: utterly obsessed with himself and his material condition and his reputation at the expense of all other factors.
It’s like he’s a living, breathing conceptual performance of Dreigroschenoper. If you didn’t know better you’d say Bertoldt Brecht had invented him.
amk
@Adam L Silverman: there goes mad dog is the sane one argument.
lamh36
@JuddLegum1. The lawsuit by Melania Trump is INSANE
sukabi
@dm: if that’s the case of computerized lighting / ambiance control then 1 day maybe 2 to figure it out…2 going on 3 weeks is a level of incompetence/ inability you wouldn’t find in a ward of lobotomized zombies…
NotMax
@Adam L. Silverman
The waiver was a Bad Idea. Guy needs more ‘transition to civilian’ time under his belt.
Major Major Major Major
What’s Secretary Rex been up to? He get one of those standing ovations, like History’s Greatest Monster did when she started?
Thru the Looking Glass...
@Adam L Silverman: I’m just waiting for Donnie and Vlad’s bromance to collapse and then Putin releasing whatever salacious material he’s holding over Trump’s head to the MSM…
THAT’S gonna be priceless…
Omnes Omnibus
@lamh36: The fuck?
Adam L Silverman
@lamh36: Yep. His answer to O’Reilly about President Obama was just pathological.
Adam L Silverman
@debbie: Yep.
SiubhanDuinne
How many Trump senior staffers does it take to turn off the light bulbs in the West Wing?
(a) All of them, Katie.
(b) Never mind. Apparently, all of them together were unable to figure it out.
Adam L Silverman
@Thru the Looking Glass…: China already has moved to fill that space. And if the dollar is replaced as the reserve currency there will be little left of the US economy.
Westyny
@GregB: Haha!
Major Major Major Major
@sukabi: in the first novel I wrote, a thriller, the main character finds himself hiding out behind the AV panel cover in a conference room at Big Bad Evil Co. as they start a meeting. He’s almost discovered when they can’t sync the projector with the PowerPoint and has to find the right buttons before they debug it themselves and find him.
NotMax
Major weather front moving through. Winds have been gusting as high as 50+ since yesterday and now pounding, driving rain (with thunderstorming predicted overnight).
Power went out 4 times yesterday. Flickered a bit a bit ago when the rain started in force, but so far still on.
Adam L Silverman
@NotMax: Likely, but given who we could have wound up with…
dm
@sukabi: If they don’t use the room every day, and the interface is as awful as some I’ve seen….But the thing you do is designate a flunky who knows how to reboot the system and get it working, and have that person on speed-dial. Assuming you can figure out the phones.
@Major Major Major Major: Priceless. Have you seen Charles Stross’s “Laundry” novels?
Adam L Silverman
@Omnes Omnibus: Apparently so much damage that she wants $150,000, 000 in damages because she is now unable to take advantage of this unique, once in a lifetime chance at leveraging her brand as First Lady to make money for both the duration of her husband’s presidency, but beyond i.
Thru the Looking Glass...
@debbie:
Scott Pelley’s lead in on CBS Evening News:
I think he already is…
sukabi
@SiubhanDuinne: no, the correct answer is 0. The lights haven’t been turned on yet.
TK
I wanted Hillary to win, I wanted her to win really, really badly. But having said that, the one silver lining to this thing is seeing Trump be the most disliked new President of all time. I’m afraid there’s a chance Hillary would have also accomplished that based on all the b.s. the GOP was throwing (and had thrown) at her. So I wasn’t looking forward to the first woman President being the most unpopular also. Instead, Don’s got to own that one. Small blessing there.
efgoldman
@Adam L Silverman:
Injuries.
NotMax
@Adam L. Silverman
Judge ought to flat out ask, “At long last, have you no sense of decency?”
amk
Ludlum – It’s the ending of the wars, the aftermath. The generals are reluctant to accept the first and have no concept of the second.
SiubhanDuinne
@lamh36:
I am confuse.
Who is Melania suing?
Major Major Major Major
@dm: I have! Love them. This predates that though :)
? Martin
This is well stated.
Thru the Looking Glass...
@Adam L Silverman: I thought Obama’s main objective in joining the TPP in the first place was to start containing China… and just like that, in less than 2 weeks, Trump flips the situation on its head…
Yes, if the dollar goes by the way as the world’s reserve currency…
Given the way things are going, I can imagine more than a few other countries are starting to wish we (the US) would just go away at this point… and quietly…
dm
@Thru the Looking Glass…:
But, you know, like all his exes, he made Reality sign an iron-clad NDA.
Thru the Looking Glass...
@efgoldman: HEAD injuries…
GregB
@Adam L Silverman:
The whole lot of them are just garish grifters.
lamh36
@SiubhanDuinne: she suing Daily Mail gain, this time in NYC
Timurid
@Adam L Silverman:
“if the dollar is replaced as the reserve currency”
Who could stick that landing right now? China actually gains some advantage right now by not having the reserve currency. And everybody will suffer during such a transition. One advantage China does have in an extended trade/economic conflict is that they’re a lot better at being authoritarians than Trump. They would be badly damaged, but would probably be able to keep their population in line. Trump would not have a prayer. And that’s one of only a tiny handful of scenarios in which the Republican caucus would actually seriously think about impeaching him.
Thru the Looking Glass...
@dm: Awwww… Reality, like Irony, is probably on its deathbed and barely holding on at this point…
BBA
@Thru the Looking Glass…: There is no way it could possibly lower anyone’s opinion of Trump. 73% of the country thinks he’s utter scum (including many Republicans who don’t care as long as he signs the Ryan budget). The remaining 27%, well, you know.
Omnes Omnibus
@TK: I wanted and still want competence and a desire to make the world better. HRC offered that. She would have been okay in the end. No silver lining for me.
Ruckus
@Adam L Silverman:
He is your typical lifer. He is absolutely sure that the US military can fix any problem if they’d only do it his way. Normally there are enough cooler heads that don’t really want to fight everywhere for any reason. And only enlisted lifers have enough level of self preservation to not want to prove that at every turn.
dm
@Thru the Looking Glass…: That would make Reality a Gingrich Ex.
Thru the Looking Glass...
@Timurid:
They’re also a lot better at tightening their belts and getting by on NOTHING…
Unlike so many in this country…
sukabi
@SiubhanDuinne: the media outfit that said she was an escort…that TOTALLY messed up her leveraging her status as First Lady to make mad $$$. Nevermind it runs up against the constitution.
PhoenixRising
@Adam L Silverman:
I read the excerpted paragraphs in which her lawyers made that claim, in just about those words, and I thought, How did this case get to discovery already? Typically that’s the kind of admission you’d make if the other side makes you say it.
Then I realized that, no, this is the damn complaint itself. It’s the first volley. Must contain the plaintiff’s best shots at argument and facts. Someone with a law license *wrote* this, and someone else with a law license *advised the client to sign it*.
Malpractice is what that complaint says. ‘I planned to exploit my public position before my husband became an international figure of ridicule, but due to your imputations of whoring I was unable to take advantage’…wow.
NotMax
@Adam L. Silverman
China has more than a few yuan invested in T-bills. Should they decide to start unloading those, perhaps at fire sale prices…
Major Major Major Major
@dm: or McCain, that honorable maverick.
At least Death (the best Terry Pratchett character) will be keeping busy ?
randy khan
@mouse tolliver:
The best and scariest part of this story is that there’s a whole permanent staff at the White House. All they had to do was ask someone who’d been working there for years. Either they’re collectively really stupid or they’re afraid of the staff. (Well, that’s the nice way to say it, since IIRC most of the staff has dark skin tones.)
Yarrow
@Adam L Silverman:
I think we’ll all be very sorry.
Adam L Silverman
@amk: Actually we spend a lot of time teaching about conflict termination and winning the peace. Or at least we did in my seminar. Whenever I do a strategic assessment brief of a problem set we’re engaged with militarily or might engage with militarily I always include a discussion about how to win the peace. I wrote an entire report on this for the current Combined Joint Task Force Commander before he deployed.
sukabi
@Thru the Looking Glass…: judging by the last 2+ weeks head injuries occurred quite some time ago.
Adam L Silverman
@SiubhanDuinne: The Daily Mail.
Thru the Looking Glass...
@dm: Well… to be honest, Gingrich did have his way w/ Reality at the time, much to Reality’s detriment…
And like Gingrich and one of his ex-wives, I have no doubt that Trump had Reality sign that agreement while it was still groggy from the anethesia…
NotMax
@Adam L. Silverman
No one, of any rank, ought to leave the military without 6 weeks of unboot camp.
Adam L Silverman
@Thru the Looking Glass…: It was. I stated in many comments here that the real point of TPP wasn’t as a multilateral trade deal, but rather to establish an Asian-Pacific alliance to contain and constrain China and to have it ready to go in case things went from peer competitor/regional rival to Asian-Pacific Cold War to Asian-Pacific hot war. I was told several times that I was incorrect.
SiubhanDuinne
@lamh36:
@sukabi:
@Adam L Silverman:
This family is amazeballs.
Omnes Omnibus
@Ruckus: I will also posit that he is a marine. They come from a culture of assaulting beaches and taking hills. And then letting the army or navy do the other bits of war fighting. I am not denigrating the marines, but they are not famous for creative thinking.
Thru the Looking Glass...
@sukabi: There ya go… and some folks think helmet laws are a restriction of their personal freedoms…
Adam L Silverman
@GregB: Emphasis on the garish.
efgoldman
@debbie:
“Regret” is not in his portfolio. It’s always somebody else’s fault.
@Thru the Looking Glass…: Right. Basically the whole first 10-12 minutes were calling out Amber Asswipe’s (and his Merry Band’s) lies. And they weren’t subtle or circumspect about it, either. No both sideserism.
It is becoming a widely accepted meme, such that, even if they wanted to correct it (they don’t) and knew how (they don’t) it wouldn’t take.
Adam L Silverman
@Timurid: I don’t think anyone can. I don’t expect it to happen, the disruption would be too great for everyone. But if it should happen, and not in a managed and planned for way, it will be very, very bad.
Ruckus
@FlipYrWhig:
The Republican president is in no particular order:
Infantile
Moronic
Incompetent
Narcissistic
Racist
Misogynistic
Lying
Cheap
Perverted
Disgusting
Classless
Clueless
Feel free to add to the list.
burnspbesq
@Adam L Silverman:
And they ended up killing al-Awlaki’s eight-year-old daughter, who in addition to being cute as shit is also an American citizen. Too great for words. A war crime in the top of the first inning.
sigaba
@lamh36: Me slapping the top of my head Monty Python and the Hoky Grail style
Thru the Looking Glass...
@Adam L Silverman: Well… I have no doubt that you both are better informed and understand it better than me… AND… that was my understanding of the point of Obama’s involvement w/ the TPP too…
And just like that, our Dear Leader has vaped it…
Major Major Major Major
@Adam L Silverman: ooh! By who?
Adam L Silverman
@PhoenixRising: I’m looking forward to the discovery phase.
Adam L Silverman
@randy khan: The permanent staff is basically the help from the perspective of these folks. Do you think any of them would even acknowledge the help?
Original Lee
@Mnemosyne: Knitpicks has a nice linen blend called Lindy.
Thru the Looking Glass...
@efgoldman:
Indeed… and I must say, I am relieved to see that…
It’s nice to see the MSM realize it DOES have a spine and genitals after all, and a real job to do…
Ot at least it appears to finally be dawning on some of them…
Adam L Silverman
@NotMax: I can’t find it any more, but there used to be a long list of things that everyone who had left the Marines needed to learn. One of my favorite was that it was no longer appropriate to tell people who were sick or injured that “pain is just weakness leaving the body”.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Thru the Looking Glass…: Tom Perez had a town hall meeting in WI today, and people told him he wasn’t a true progressive because TPP. It’s an emotional issue at this point
burnspbesq
@lamh36:
Melania is about as public a figure as you can name. If she’s suing in a U.S. court, this action is borderline frivolous.
efgoldman
@sigaba:
No, actually, he isn’t. Libertarianism assumes some kind of (perverted) philosophical grounding. Narcissists don’t do philosophy or ideology. He’s just a fucked up human being.
dm
@Adam L Silverman: I wish I’d been hanging out in the comments back then. I never did understand why Obama was pushing TPP so hard (all I ever heard about it were the intellectual property provisions, but those are the sort of thing that get my clan’s knickers in a twist).
@Thru the Looking Glass…: I have to wonder how well Trump’s “so-called Judge” stuff is playing in Justice Roberts’ sense of the prerogatives of the Judiciary. Roberts is an old-line conservative and has to expect that he will be here long after Trump goes away (perhaps in a trial Roberts will oversee).
Also, Roberts is probably aware of the people in the streets, and just a little sensitive to the political environment.
NotMax
And we thought a president calling him Pootie-Poot was both ludicrous and bad…
Adam L Silverman
@Omnes Omnibus: Yep, Marines fight battles. Armies fight campaigns. That said, over the past couple of decades many of the best strategic generals have come from the Marines, not the Army.
None of us are quite sure why this is given the different realities of the two Services.
Ruckus
@Omnes Omnibus:
I’ve know some Marines who were stellar in the thinking/creative departments and were/are pacifists at heart despite what they did in the Marines during war. I’ve met a few who are exactly what I think Mattis is, a war loving hard right Murica, fuck ya! asshole. I’ve also known a few who probably couldn’t have fought their way out of a wet paper bag if they hadn’t been trained by the corp to do just that.
Omnes Omnibus
@Adam L Silverman: I anticipate echoing Dora Charleston again and again: Oh, that’s tacky! That’s REALLY tacky!
Yarrow
@TK: The possible silver lining I see is that Trump so damages the Republicans that the entire party is left in ruins. It could go another way and the country is left in ruins. Possibly the world. But if somehow we escape those fates, I think he has the potential to destroy the Republican brand. And that would be a silver lining.
Adam L Silverman
@Ruckus: Would you please be so kind to as to rearrange those so the first letters of each word form a useful and easily remembered acronym? Thanks!
Thru the Looking Glass...
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: I don’t doubt that…
The possibility of losing even more jobs overseas probably trumps ‘Containing China’ pretty handily for too many people right now…
Major Major Major Major
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: single-payer, GLASS-STEAGALL!
Adam L Silverman
@burnspbesq: Yep and yep. Though I don’t think the intention was to kill her. If the intel was as bad as has been reported, I’m not sure they had any idea who was there, how many, or how well armed.
NotMax
Robo call this afternoon that I’d be called tomorrow for an “important conference call with Tulsi Gabbard about Syria and President Assad.”
Oy vey ist mir.
? Martin
@Adam L Silverman: Yep. And TPP was also trying to shift the basis for protectionism from tariff which is just arbitrarily taxing good to environmental and labor protections, which carry a cost but also carry a more important global benefit.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Major Major Major Major: Dave Weigel was tweeting the events, I gather he’s following Perez around Wisconsin. I’m hoping he writes it up. I’m not entirely clear on why Perez is doing town halls, doesn’t seem like the quickest way to get to candidate recruitment and rebuilding at the state level
Timurid
@burnspbesq: Awlaki was such a weird guy. Suburban dad; secret evil mastermind. He reminded me of Tim Robbins’ character in Arlington Road.
Omnes Omnibus
@Adam L Silverman: @Ruckus: I was just pointing out a cultural difference between the services. Individual officers and soldiers/marines should be taken on their merits.
Adam L Silverman
@Major Major Major Major: Honestly, I don’t recall specifically right now. I’m not even sure it was the same person each time. Eventually I just stopped commenting about it. But if it makes you happy I’m sure you were one of the retched people involved…//
sigaba
@efgoldman: I’m not saying he has a philosophical grounding. I’m saying he is what libertarians claim humanity is. Libertarians model humans (other humans) as basically utilitarian animals with utterly base material appetites. Trump is that.
burnspbesq
@Yarrow:
Anyone else remember The Bedford Incident?
sukabi
@burnspbesq: it’s probably her hail Mary move. Drumpf has probably told her he won’t divorce her while he’s in the White house, and she’s probably signed a prenup that keeps her from any $$ if she dumps him…Suit is her way of securing $$ for her future.
Major Major Major Major
@Adam L Silverman: I distinctly remember thinking you were right!
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: maybe Perez is doing that whole “visiting Wisconsin and talking to the voters” thing?
efgoldman
@sukabi:
Hey, restricting working hours to the light of day was good enough for Washington, Jefferson, Lincoln…..
Thru the Looking Glass...
@Yarrow:
Well… he already destroyed the Democratic Party, as it was constituted before the election…
Destroying the Republican Party next would make for a great 2nd Act…
sigaba
@Thru the Looking Glass… @Adam L Silverman: There’s this legend that as Bismarck was cleaning out his office after being sacked by Wilhelm II, he was muttering to himself, “Just keep France contained and there will be no war… France… “
? Martin
@Adam L Silverman: Yeah, that was my read as well. They appealed to Trumps need to one-up Obama, both by comparing it to the Bin Laden raid, but also by stating that Obama was too timid to attempt it. Pretty much guaranteed he’d support it.
patroclus
@efgoldman: Yeah, say what you will about the tenets of libertarianism, at least it’s an ethos.
Thru the Looking Glass...
@sukabi:
That was my 1st thought too…
She’s gonna run while the running’s good…
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Major Major Major Major: sure, I just tend to think the DNC chair is and should be more of a behind the scenes job.
Adam L Silverman
@dm: @Major Major Major Major: Just a follow on: From what I understood of the trade provisions it was clear that there were significant issues. But my understanding is those issues existed so that the Obama Administration could get buy in from such a diverse group of countries in order to achieve their real objective: an alliance in place to contain and constrain the PRC. Basically every different country and every different corporation effected by TPP had their own list of things they had to have. Some were negotiated off of, some couldn’t be and got included. And as a citizen, I’m never pleased with “this has to be kept secret until after its voted on”. If things are that problematic, its not going to get any better after the vote than before. And if its so important, then come out and make the case. I realize a decision was made decades ago that Americans are fragile, delicate children who can’t handle anything complex or difficult, but a little effort would have been nice.
Chet Murthy
@dm: Yeah, uh, sorry about that record-needle-scratch wakin’ you up. But we won’t be havin’ the war with Pootie-poot. But rather with Xi (after he sinks one of our carriers) or Kim.
ETA: re: Xi, obv. I mean, after a couple rounds of escalation in the South China Sea. And re: Kim, obv. after a couple rounds of escalation on Twitter.
Major Major Major Major
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: honestly this whole thing has really scrambled my sense of what they’re supposed to do. I think you’re right, but then I think about RNC PR BS and what people seem to want in a party chair right now…
Adam L Silverman
@Omnes Omnibus: Pretty much.
Peale
@lamh36: why not in U.K., where libel is more favorable?
Ruckus
@NotMax:
I had 3 days to go after I found out about my discharge. I was ready to be a civilian on the bus ride TO boot camp on my first day. My mantra then was “Did I ever fuck up!” I repeated that for hours. And I was, at least once in my life, 100% right. OTOH I did spend a couple of months in the hospital with mostly Marines, some of whom I’d bet should still not be allowed to be in public, and that’s 44 yrs later.
Chet Murthy
@Thru the Looking Glass…: Um, why? Isn’t that what happens when an insecure man takes Propecia (estrogen mimic) *grin*
Omnes Omnibus
@sigaba: Libertarians seen to have read only Ayn Rand and J. S. Mills’ “On Liberty.” Mill wrote other shit, you stupid fucks. If you take it all together, you get liberal democracy, you dipshits. If you iggy Rand, who was an appalling philosopher and even worse writer. You appallingly shitty people. Just fuck off.
/rant
NotMax
The Gang Who Couldn’t Propaganda Straight.
Adam L Silverman
@NotMax: You’ll need this:
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2017/01/26/democratic-congresswoman-used-affiliates-of-a-violent-anti-semitic-political-party-to-take-tea-with-assad.html
NotMax
Argh. Code fail. Fix.
The Gang Who Couldn’t Propaganda Straight.
Nancy Squish?
Omnes Omnibus
@Peale: Competence, baby.
Peale
@NotMax: wait. Did something happen in San Bernardino? I hope they caught him alive.
XD
patroclus
@Adam L Silverman: The TPP provisions have been public for over a year and they were never “voted on.” Could you please explain what you mean by your statement that they were kept secret until after they were voted on?
Thru the Looking Glass...
@Chet Murthy:
Hope you don’t mind the addition… and that’s what scares me too… a 3 am flame war on Twitter in which Trump and Jong start insulting each other’s hair…
GregB
@NotMax:
If I read between the lines, Pelosi thinks Trump’s conduct with Russia is where there is cause for impeachment.
NotMax
@Adam L. Silverman
Already tracked.
Adam L Silverman
@Major Major Major Major: I was teasing. I honestly don’t remember who told me I was incorrect.
seaboogie
@lamh36: Me likey…..and Dennis Leary as KellyAnne!
Omnes Omnibus
@Thru the Looking Glass…: Allegedly, Trump doesn’t drink.
Ruckus
@Adam L Silverman:
Knock yourself out! Please!
I’m lesdyslc so trying to figure out some word that fits all of his faults is beyond my cognitive abilities. That’s my excuse and I’m sticking to it.
ETA Besides FUCKING ASSHOLE doesn’t fit.
Lizzy L
@Adam L Silverman: They may indeed be insane, Adam. Jury’s still out. And while I don’t think Mattis is at all interested in provoking China, I think 45 is fully capable of doing it. Or of rage tweeting insults at Kim Jong Un some night when he’s hyped on sugar, pissed at someone, or bored.
Major Major Major Major
@Omnes Omnibus: they all seem to think they’ve read Adam Smith, too.
@Adam L Silverman: yes, the trade deal itself left some (much even?) to be desired, but nobody even talked about the war-avoidance part of it. It was weird.
Thru the Looking Glass...
@Chet Murthy: Well… much like a question about Trump’s man boobs that appeared on a prior thread… I try to NOT ponder anything to do w/ Trump’s… um… anatomy…
My original reference was to the Seinfeld episode where George suffers from shrinkage but you’re right… I recall hearing about Trump’s use of Propecia… nice catch…
sigaba
@NotMax: Wait for the opening. Like TRON.
By “media didn’t give enough coverage to San Bernardino” they mean “media didn’t shut down the country.”
fuckwit
@Viva BrisVegas: Just the major cities, which are his “enemies” where the “elites” live.
I remember reading the sci-fi writing of one John Titor in the early 2000’s. He posited a world in the near future where the USA splits apart between urban and rural areas in a recap of the Civil War. The Russians are the allies of the rural Americans, and nuke all the major cities, thus allowing a new government of simple white christian farmers to be formed out of Omaha Nebraska, which is allied with the Russians. The rural universities become Forts.
I remember thinking how good some of the writing was, except for this business about the Russians, was too far-fetched. And here it is creeping closer to our doorstep every day.
Fucking scary shit.
Omnes Omnibus
@Adam L Silverman: I can say that I was iffy at best on the TPP because of concerns about labor and environmental issues. But I didn’t shit on you about it. In retrospect, I have some doubts about my earlier position.
dm
@Chet Murthy: I did say “exchange”, and it’s natural to assume that I meant with Russia. What I really fear is that there will be a few bombs used on other targets, while the other Rubble-Bouncer looks on and composes it’s own list of irritants to irradiate.
But I’m sorry I brought it up, because I consider the whole thing too depressing even for gallows humor.
Lizzy L
@Chet Murthy: Jinx!
sigaba
@fuckwit: The way I remember that, Titor wasn’t a sci-fi writer, he was literally a time traveler from the future.
John Titor
Omnes Omnibus
@Major Major Major Major: Don’t start me down that path.
Chet Murthy
@TK: As in the small, small blessing of Hope, at the bottom of Pandora’s box, in the Greek myth. After all the evils of the world escaped, natch.
But I do take your point (in a way). Now that we’re -here- and we can’t wake up in @IfHillHad’s timeline, at least, the women’s movement is -really- waking up to both the urgency of the moment, and their power. And maybe they’ll save us all.
Thru the Looking Glass...
@Ruckus:
There’s a support group for people w/ reading disabilities now… it’s called Lysdexics Untied!
There’s also one for people addicted to Stairmasters but that’s a 12,000 step program…
And last but not least, there’s now a program for people addicted to sodomy… Rear Enders…
patroclus
@Major Major Major Major: Not nobody – the war-avoidance theme was a major component of the Prime Minister of Singapore’s speech at the WH when he visited Obama last year for a state visit. And it was never debated in Congress because neither the Senate nor the House ever put TPP on the Floor. It would have been debated extensively here had that ever occurred.
sukabi
@Omnes Omnibus:
scotchcoke fueled Twitter war then?Ruckus
@Adam L Silverman:
Not being a military tactician in any sense of the word, I’d still think having a fucking clue somewhere in the vicinity of that information would be, what’s that word, fucking critical to attempting a raid like this. Anything less would seem to me to be a dereliction of duty for someone of his stature.
Major Major Major Major
@Omnes Omnibus: ok!
@patroclus: fair enough. I guess we decided to let the people decide.
They chose… poorly.
Thru the Looking Glass...
@Omnes Omnibus: Then perhaps some of the prescription meds he might be on have an hallucinogenic side effect…
Omnes Omnibus
@sukabi: Why not both? I said allegedly. For lawyers, that word equals “air quotes.”
Adam L Silverman
@NotMax: I think Congresswoman Pelosi has largely been effective, but her inability to recognize that the House was broken by Gingrich so he could come to power and that the Senate has now been broken by McConnell and that the old norms and rules and traditions apply is highly annoying.
Omnes Omnibus
@Thru the Looking Glass…: It is irresponsible not to speculate.
Ruckus
@Omnes Omnibus:
Oh I don’t think you were wrong, but just like most other groups of any size there can be some pretty big variations. And the services, in my experience, do have a core group of people who fall into those preconceived notions of what each branch brings to the table.
ETA If it was me making the choice of Sec of Defense, that person would most likely never be a Marine.
Mnemosyne
@AnneW:
@Original Lee:
Both of those are on my shortlist, but I’m considering making a lace version since LA summers can be HOT and ventilation will be appreciated. If I do that, I may need to knit it flat rather than in the round so I can seam the sides for a little more stiffness and shaping.
Omnes Omnibus
@Ruckus: I just don’t want the jarheads to think that I was insulting them.
Chet Murthy
@Adam L Silverman: Adam, have you ever read Chalmers Johnson (specifically, _Blowback_)? [guessing you have ….] So at a really, really high level, one might say that the TPP follows in the line of so many other treaties, sacrificing our citizens’ well-being, on the altar of maintaining our empire?
I mean, it wasn’t exactly *free trade*; from what I read, quite the opposite: IP protections, ISDS, etc, all of which are about restraint of trade, about rent-farming.
All that said, I’ve read it said that “TPP was worth an extra aircraft carrier”. And I wonder to myself how we can build these alliances, when they’re built on the backs of our people ….
ETA: obv. I’d like to believe in a world where the winners from these treaties share the gains with the losers. I also wish for a world where Martin Shkreli wears sackcloth and ashes and … I get a pony.
efgoldman
@Thru the Looking Glass…:
And we call them… organ donors on donorcycles.
patroclus
@Major Major Major Major: Well, it didn’t help that Hillary chickened out and pretended to be against TPP because of the Sanders (er, Wilmer) primary challenge. That, in turn, cowed Obama, who didn’t want to hurt her chances and that, in turn, cowed all the Obots too. So, we were left with Trump, who clearly opposed TPP and Clinton who pretended to. As Sam Rayburn used to say, if you give voters a choice between a real Republican and someone pretending to hold their positions, they’ll vote for the real one every time.
Thru the Looking Glass...
@Omnes Omnibus: And seeing as we are such responsible types here, speculate we must!
Adam L Silverman
@patroclus: It was originally reported that until the fast track authority was approved, the details had to be kept secret/closely held. About a year ago, the details did come out, but there was a vote on fast track authority.
mouse tolliver
@amk: Maybe we should just start calling him Cujo from now on.
efgoldman
@Ruckus:
I tried to make a word out of the first letters. Couldn’t, but I suck at crosswords and jumbles, too.
Thru the Looking Glass...
@efgoldman: Yup…
The 2nd time I dropped a dirt bike on dirt, 40 years ago, I got up, rode it back where I borrowed it from (a cousin) and never got on a motorcycle again…
Adam L Silverman
@Omnes Omnibus: Never said you did. Again: I honestly cannot remember who told me I was incorrect in my analysis. I had the same concerns you did on those issues.
amk
Today in china news –
sabrecoastguard ships rattling near japan. It’s good that mad dog so sternly warned the NK mad man just last week.?BillinGlendaleCA
@Omnes Omnibus:
Snort coke, opinions vary.
Ruckus
@Adam L Silverman:
I think if it had been done in the light of day, the results would be exactly what we are seeing, no trade deal that at least might have some positive long term results. Because too many humans can’t see past the nose on their faces, or the next buck to be made.
I figured there had to be something in it for the country, as well as a few things that at first read wouldn’t make anyone jump for joy, for President Obama to be that secretive.
Chet Murthy
@Thru the Looking Glass…: Homes, he doesn’t drink alcohol (and from what I’ve read, this isn’t a pose …. that said,
“…. after several lines of COKE and ….”
I’m totally willing to believe he’s coked-up.
patroclus
@Adam L Silverman: More accurately, there were no details of an agreement yet to be agreed because fast track authority merely authorizes the Office of the Special Trade Representative to begin to negotiate an agreement. After that, an agreement is negotiated and agreed and then it is presented to Congress for a vote. Senator Warren and Senator Sanders and others mis-stated that process to make it seem as though what you first said was the case – as though an agreement had been reached before fast track authority was authorized. They were wrong. No doubt, the “reporting” you remember merely parroted their inaccurate depiction of the process. There was no “secret” agreement; there were no closely held details – once the negotiators agreed, the details were made public and would have been thoroughly debated, studies and analyzed had TPP ever made it to the Floors of the House and the Senate.
Omnes Omnibus
@Adam L Silverman: I was just ducking the wrath. :P
Chet Murthy
@seaboogie: I thought McKinnon 0wned that role?
For my money, her “Russian Peasant Woman” (“oh! My pension!”) was fabulous.
Major Major Major Major
@patroclus: opposition to TPP wasn’t the republican position until Trump said it was though. His voters changed their position 180 degrees once he said it. Opposition was the lefty position.
Adam L Silverman
@Ruckus: If the intel was bad as reported, then it meant that what they thought they knew was wrong.
Chet Murthy
@Lizzy L: And then there’s that cretin Tillerson with his saber-rattling about the SCS.
NotMax
@Adam L. Silverman
Any particular insight or knowledge on how the Chinese could (not shut down) but impede or delay passage through the Panama Canal to certain vessels?
Imagine it must have been at least a paragraph in some military gaming propsectus.
efgoldman
@NotMax:
Some kind of obscure Hawaiian saying?
Thru the Looking Glass...
@Chet Murthy: It seems we’re reaching a consensus here…
NO alcohol, but cocaine and Propencia are highly likely…
Ruckus
@Thru the Looking Glass…:
Fore than you can go right off your fuck self.
Adam L Silverman
@Chet Murthy: I have. And I understand what you’re saying. I’m not saying it was a proper execution of the concept.
danielx
@Darrin Ziliak (formerly glocksman):
I’d have to go with door #2.
patroclus
@Ruckus: It WAS done in the light of day. After fast track was authorized, it was negotiated, all the business channels (CNBC, Bloomberg) and the periodicals (the Economist, the FT, the Journal) reported on the progress of negotiations, and then when an agreement was reached, it was made public. This process was repeatedly mis-stated by the opponents, who pretended that an agreement existed prior to the fast track vote, and hence, it was “secret.” This was a clever tactic by Senators Warren and Sanders (and others) – to pretend that something was “secret” and therefore sinister. But it isn’t accurate.
NotMax
@NotMax
Prospectus.
(No edit function.)
?BillinGlendaleCA
@patroclus: Yup, it’s generally not a good idea to negotiate anything in the press.
Major Major Major Major
@patroclus: IIRC Obama was about to make his big push for it in January or so, and then the primary made everything insane and everybody lost their shit over it and the whole damn thing just up and died.
Adam L Silverman
@NotMax: I have no idea. Close the locks I suppose.
efgoldman
@Thru the Looking Glass…:
IANAL, but seems to me she’s got no chance of winning.
And discovery’s gonna’ be fun fun fun ’til Daddy takes her lawyers away….
Millard Filmore
@Adam L Silverman:
Where can I go to read up on the impact of this type of change?
Ruckus
@Omnes Omnibus:
I was in the navy, insulting jar heads was what we did for fun. Especially when wearing an SP armband, which I had to do for a few weeks not long before I got out. Mostly I just followed the lead of the gunny sgt that I patrolled with.
efgoldman
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
And it pretty much will be, if he gets it. But meanwhile, spending time in a “safe, blue” state that cost the election is useful research.
Thru the Looking Glass...
@efgoldman: Well, i suspect you are right AND that’s never stopped someone from trying…
seaboogie
@Chet Murthy: She does – Kate McKinnon flat out owns every role she plays (including Justin Bieber), but Leary has been compared to Conway (and he does acknowledge the resemblance), so a full-on drag that includes a man playing a woman is a furtherance of that joke. Maybe they could do an “in a mirror” thing….
Peale
I guess I’m the last free trading neoliberal imperialist in the world right now. I shall now smugly watch y’all burn down my world.
Thru the Looking Glass...
@Adam L Silverman: You could also make that same, exact statement about the Trump Presidency…
patroclus
@Major Major Major Major: Not precisely. Roughly 1/3rd of the Republicans opposed NAFTA and other trade agreements and roughly 2/3rds routinely support them. The Dems are/were similarly split. Historically, tariff reduction was always the Democratic position and tariff increases the Republican position – but that began to change once the U.S. started to adopt the Reciprocal Trade Agreement modus operandi under FDR and Cordell Hull in the 1930’s. Since then, the parties have been in flux with Democrats gradually becoming more protectionist and Republicans becoming less so. TPP probably would have passed prior to Trump, but you’re right that he completely changed the dynamic. And that, arguably, was one of the reasons he did better in Michigan, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania while Hillary’s “pretend” position did not similarly gain support in more pro-Free Trade states.
Ruckus
@efgoldman:
I call them fucking morons. The value of the helmet one wears is a reflection of the value of ones brain. No helmet is a telling value. One to stay far away from.
Chet Murthy
@Adam L Silverman: Um, been a few years since I read it, but ISTR he argued that even back then, the US was trading the welfare of its citizens for imperial stability. The example that comes to mind was telling US auto makers they could not sue Japanese auto makers for patent infringement, b/c the USG wanted bases in Japan.
I’m not saying that this is unreasonable. But esp. today, a reasonable argument has to be made. And that’s pretty fricken’ difficult, isn’t it? “You and your family must die b/c you can’t afford medicine, so that we can preserve world peace”. Doesn’t exactly roll off the tongue.
[Just to be scrupulously honest: then again, poor black people weren’t even told that. They were told “you and your family just die so we can keep poor white people (see above) from gettin’ uppity”]
Not that this is a fair allusion, but I get this distinct feeling of Strauss and the shadows on the walls of the cave ….
Adam L Silverman
@Millard Filmore: I don’t know. I’m getting ready to rack out – my allergies are killing me. Let me think about it and get back to you.
Omnes Omnibus
@Ruckus: I was actually and rarely serious. Jarheads have a function and being amphibious is a thing. They are damned good at what they do. As Adam said, marines fight battles; the army fights campaigns.
Omnes Omnibus
@Peale: Bullshit. I will add liberal interventionist to the pot.
patroclus
@Peale: Well, you’re not the only one. Although tariff and non-tariff trade barrier reduction is and has historically been the “Liberal” position – and is certainly not “neo-liberal” or “imperialistic.” It was the reason Churchill left the Tories and became a Liberal in the early Twentieth Century and it has historically underpinned the Democratic Party (and each and every Democratic President) for its entire existence. TPP going down so disastrously is a major missed opportunity for the U.S. and will have detrimental impacts for decades, most notably with the loss of these markets to Chinese dominance.
Gian
@dm: when I’m late leaving for work, I can hear the local air reserve base play reveille. I suppose the air burst will take us all out in a heartbeat, but I want to die in my sleep like grandpa, not screaming in terror like his passengers.
efgoldman
@NotMax:
Among Nancy’s many fine qualities, she can count, add, subtract, and knows the opposition (which happens to be in the, you know, majority). She knows goddamned well that an impeachment resolution at this time would be an empty gesture; it likely wouldn’t even get a hearing in committee, let alone any kind of vote.
Cain
Haha, David Frum
Omnes Omnibus
@efgoldman: Yep.
Thru the Looking Glass...
@efgoldman: I would like to think Nancy’s comment about no grounds for impeachment YET was simply the political equivalent of ‘Wait ’till you see the whites of theirs eyes, boys’… or something ot that effect…
efgoldman
@Thru the Looking Glass…:
300am in DC = 400pm the next afternoon in Pyongyang. At least Kim should be awake and as coherent as he gets.
Ruckus
@Omnes Omnibus:
You couldn’t see my tongue planted firmly in my cheek as I typed that answer to you. But I like my teeth too much to insult jar heads. Had them a long time, they’ve served me well for the most part and while I’ve had a fair bit of work done on them, I’ve tried real hard not to have any of them knocked out. But I really did serve in the SP for a few weeks and did hang with a Marine gunny sgt for most of that time. Decent guy, for a lifer, and he was by far the best drug sniffing animal I’ve ever seen.
Thru the Looking Glass...
@efgoldman: And Trump just might be as awake and incoherent as he can get…
Gian
@Adam L Silverman:
This is the crux of our trade issues. It’s not at all unfair to think that post WWII – Breton Woods monetary and US trade policy has essentially used the US economy as a source of strength for our allies versus the Soviet Bloc. I mean I get the frustration that the TPP opposition has in that we will sacrifice here to try and contain China abroad with the “soft power” of economics. Given the overall size of China, and the continuing growth/development of their economy I don’t know that that makes a good long term bet.
On the other hand, being Putin’s Poodle and picking a fight with China is, well, a bad idea
Peale
@Omnes Omnibus: I shall sue you for libel. I am not now nor have I ever been an interventionist, except that one time when you, Martin, and that guy from Lowell convinced me to tepidly support Libya.
efgoldman
@Adam L Silverman:
Unfortunately, in the house, the majority makes the rules each session. Unlike the senate, it is strictly majoritarian – the minority has no power, and no choke points like the senate does.
Omnes Omnibus
@Ruckus: I knew what you were doing.
Omnes Omnibus
@Peale: Eh, go blow a goat. I am going to bed.
EBT
@sigaba: The old days when all you had to do was cultivate a persona and post on a few thousand web pages.
danielx
Not going to get any better; will indeed get worse from Trump’s perspective. He’s on the biggest stage in the world and playing himself, to extremely bad reviews. The difference being that he now has the power to take revenge (one way or another) on anybody who displeases him, which at this point includes a great many people.
efgoldman
@Ruckus:
The helmet law in RI is basically a suggestion. You see asshole klowns every weekend coming across the state line from MA and CT, pulling over, and taking the brain buckets off.
Mnemosyne
@patroclus:
We also couldn’t exactly come right out and say, We’re signing this trade agreement to keep China’s power in check, so when politicians were asked what the benefits were, they were literally unable to say.
This would be the downside of 11-dimensional chess.
Aussie Sheila
@Adam L Silverman:
In Australia our version of the VSP said that the purpose of the TPP was to draw a rules based ‘ring’ around China that included the major SE Asian and US of course, trading bloc.
In other words, ‘our trade, our rules’. There was heated opposition to the TPP in the centre left and left generally in Oz, mainly because of the corporate controlled DSP provisions, and the fear that US trade mark rules would extend property rights over pharmaceuticals and other goods way beyond what would be reasonable. There was also concerns that our conservative government would give in re our pharmaceutical benefits scheme, that imposes strict requirements on big pharma if they want access to our subsidised scheme.
In the event, once tRump announced it was as expired as the parrot, the ALP rushed in to rubbish PM Turnbulls idiotic attempt to revive it as the TPP minus 1.
The relief in the ALP that tRump had killed it, could be heard all across the continent .
I am glad it has gone. These FTAs have little to do with tariffs, and everything to do with ‘who makes the rules, gets the gold’.
I cannot understand why Obama pinned so much on that deal. In my view that contributed to Clintons defeat, although probably just one thing among many others.
Cheers
patroclus
@Mnemosyne: Good politicians/diplomats could have done so. But they were never given the chance because TPP never made the Floors to enable them to do so. We could have said that we would invite China to join later; we could have negotiated a bi-lateral deal with China as a template for other TPP members to do the same. In my view, it would have easily passed through the Senate and narrowly in the House. But Hillary was too cowardly to do so and so were McConnell and Ryan. And Obama decided not to so as not to hurt Hillary. The failure of TPP has many fathers and mothers and we’ll be paying for it for quite some time. Other Presidents took the issue on and got good agreements through. Now, the zeitgeist is to never even attempt them and in the Age of Trump, virtually nothing is likely. In fact, trade wars seem much more likely.
Aussie Sheila
@patroclus:
But why should there be a TPP at all? What ‘problem’ that effects countries like mine, was it trying to solve? The Australain economy is arguably even more of an open economy than the US, particularly as regards agriculture.
Why should democratic polities be challenged in their own courts by MNCs, when they pass laws supported by their own people?
Why should corporate entities have the right to veto the decisions of such polities?
It is precisely this kind of global ‘governance’ that is responsible for the reprehensible and reactionary politics we see all around us.
When people feel that powerful ‘others’ are able to countermand their own preferences indefinitely , they will lash out, consequences be damned. And since there appears to be no centre left party anywhere that is able to structure a new deal around the challenges of the times, the reactionary right is having a field day. Unfortunately for the people of the world and the planet.
Cheers
EBT
@efgoldman: I knew a guy who was in a gnarly crash and shattered his skull up real good. He says the doctors told him the only reason he didn’t die was his helmet held all the chunks in place.
Ruckus
@efgoldman:
First, thanks for proving my point.
Second, I remember about a week after CA’s helmet law passed watching a rider take off his helmet when he arrived where he was going and throwing it on the ground with great force. Which also proved my point, if you’ve got nothing to put inside of the helmet, there is no need for you to wear one. Your loved ones will probably be better off without you. I’m pretty sure the rest of us will be better off.
Third, Darwin was right.
Chet Murthy
@Aussie Sheila: Maybe putting it pithily,”We had to kill our citizenry, to save them from the Chinese”?
seaboogie
@Ruckus: Hey – are you familiar with a new font for those with dyslexia? Here a link: http://opendyslexic.org/
It seems to me like the letters are weighted in such as was as to anchor them. I’m a fan of fonts in general and have used them in a professional capacity to convey the subject when I was doing a bookstore signage project -the idea being that you would intuit what the subject is from the font itself.
I was typing dyslexia (and mis-typing it) which reminded my of this, from the brilliant dyslexic Eddie Izzard….
Might have linked the wrong thing…meant this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_e2ur28Uw9k
Aussie Sheila
@Chet Murthy:
Yes. Or more pithy, ‘ nice little democracy you have here, pity if something happened to it’.
Anne Laurie
@PhoenixRising:
Well, it’s not as if those lawyers were expecting to get paid. If I were tasked with defending a Trump, I wouldn’t waste any billable hours throwing spaghetti at the wall either…
Anne Laurie
@Adam L Silverman: Possibly a variant (source?) of Skippy’s List?
seaboogie
Spent a few months with a loved one in Miami’s Jackson Memorial hospital (trauma center and spinal cord treatment center) in the Neuro Intensive Care ward. Staff there hated the sans helmet guys, if only because what the families dealt with as their loved ones became organ donors – all patients on the precipice, all the time.
liberal
@Omnes Omnibus: yeah, Libya is way better off after she pushed Obama to get rid of Qaddafi.
liberal
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Projection isn’t just for Republicans.
liberal
@? Martin: LOL!
liberal
@Aussie Sheila: you’re interlocutors drank the Obama koolaide a long time ago. If Obama said that the purpose of TPP was to thwart China, then it must be true.
Applejinx
@Thru the Looking Glass…:
Pff. Tell it to the Rust Belt. We got space, and thanks to modern finance we got a whole lot of foreclosed or wastefully built houses, but I think you’ll find Americans are very resourceful about not starving. China ain’t got nothing on us, once you get out into ‘real America’.
TidyCat
@Adam L Silverman: I had to laugh because that was my first thought as I read the list too. I started reading down each first letter trying to sound out a word in my head..
Applejinx
@Adam L Silverman:
Really? I don’t remember hearing that from you, but I think that’s very likely. Who wasn’t buying it? This would also explain why Obama was so into the deal. I think I’ve seen a pattern with him, that he was continually building power structures and alliances for strategic reasons.
Aimai
@patroclus: stop already.
SFAW
@efgoldman:
You had me up until the “human” part.
leeleeFL
@FlipYrWhig: Too SMART to do! This is a thread full of win with snarkiness. Thanks. Mornings need good snarkiness.
Jackie
@Mnemosyne:
I have seen references to a pink “brain” hat for the scientists march, do you know where I can find the pattern?
polyorchnid octopunch
@NotMax: Geez, for a moment there I had hope they’d misspelled it San Ber’dino.
polyorchnid octopunch
@seaboogie: She should be played by Eddie. That is, Eddie, the Iron Maiden mascot of old.
Captain C
@FlipYrWhig: This sounds like how W could be manipulated by telling him that X was the bold course of action.
Debbie1
@FlipYrWhig: Yes, the president who got the Somali pirates & found & captured bin Laden. You all just keep portraying Repubs as manly, despite all evidence to the contrary.
Debbie1
@lamh36: Didn’t Blagoyiavich go to prison for something like this. This seat is GOLD! I’m not going to give it away for free!
Debbie1
@liberal: It’s a dead giveaway when their internet name is “liberal.”
TenguPhule
@Thru the Looking Glass…: Wrong. Starvation tends to lead to revolutions in China. That’s how the current regime came into power. Its also what scares that regime because they haven’t forgotten that little fact.
TenguPhule
@patroclus: You had a choice between plain pasta and tire rims spiked with anthrax. Apparently you favored the anthrax.
TenguPhule
@mouse tolliver: So AQ is now Bugs Bunny and The US armed forces are being commanded by Daffy Duck.
I’ve seen this cartoon before and it never ends well for the fowl.
TenguPhule
@Ruckus: Fearless.
Which is a bad thing. As fear is a survival mechanism.
patroclus
@Aussie Sheila: Well, lower tariffs and trade barriers imposed by Australia would make the prices you pay for products cheaper – do you prefer higher or lower prices?
And lower tariffs and trade barriers imposed by other countries on products produced in Australia will make them cheaper for others to buy; thereby stimulating more demand for them, which will encourage the creation of more jobs in Australia – do you prefer having Australian jobs and a growing economy?
patroclus
@TenguPhule: No, I’d prefer lower prices and more jobs. And intellectual property rights being enforced so as to encourage greater creativity and growth.
Ian
@BBA:
I know some of those republicans. Their lack of morals scares me more than the immorality of the trumpistas.