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Balloon Juice

Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Nancy smash is sick of your bullshit.

Authoritarian republicans are opposed to freedom for the rest of us.

Marge, god is saying you’re stupid.

A thin legal pretext to veneer over their personal religious and political desires.

“But what about the lurkers?”

You can’t love your country only when you win.

Ron DeSantis, the grand wizard, oops, governor of FL.

rich, arrogant assholes who equate luck with genius

Dead end MAGA boomers crying about Talyor Swift being a Dem is my kind of music. Turn it up.

Tick tock motherfuckers!

This isn’t Democrats spending madly. This is government catching up.

We cannot abandon the truth and remain a free nation.

Republicans do not pay their debts.

Thanks to your bullshit, we are now under siege.

He wakes up lying, and he lies all day.

We are builders in a constant struggle with destroyers. let’s win this.

Compromise? There is no middle ground between a firefighter and an arsonist.

A lot of Dems talk about what the media tells them to talk about. Not helpful.

Within six months Twitter will be fully self-driving.

Even though I know this is a bad idea, I’m off to do it anyway!

If you tweet it in all caps, that makes it true!

Someone should tell Republicans that violence is the last refuge of the incompetent, or possibly the first.

Putin must be throwing ketchup at the walls.

Jesus, Mary, & Joseph how is that election even close?

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You are here: Home / Organizing & Resistance / Don't Mourn, Organize / Thoughts From Bernice King

Thoughts From Bernice King

by TaMara|  February 12, 20177:00 pm| 209 Comments

This post is in: Don't Mourn, Organize, Your Place Is In The Resistance

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Bernice King, youngest daughter of Dr. Martin Luther King and Coretta Scott King, posted this on FB earlier in the week:

Full text here:

Some Wise Advice Circulating:

1. Use his name sparingly so as not to detract from the issues. I believe that everyone, regardless of their beliefs, deserves the dignity of being called by their name. However, this is a strategic tactic. While we are so focused on him we are prone to neglect the questionable policies that threaten freedom, justice and fairness advanced by the administration.

2. Remember this is a regime and he’s not acting alone;

3. Do not argue with those who support him and his policies–it doesn’t work;

4. Focus on his policies, not his appearance and mental state;

5. Keep your message positive; those who oppose peace and justice want the country to be angry and fearful because this is the soil from which their darkest policies will grow;

6. No more helpless/hopeless talk;

7. Support artists and the arts;

8. Be careful not to spread fake news. Check it;

9. Take care of yourselves; and

10. Resist!

Keep demonstrations peaceful. In the words of John Lennon, “When it gets down to having to use violence, then you are playing the system’s game. The establishment will irritate you – pull your beard, flick your face – to make you fight! Because once they’ve got you violent, then they know how to handle you. The only thing they don’t know how to handle is non-violence and humor.”

When you post or talk about him, don’t assign his actions to him, assign them to “The Republican Administration,” or “The Republicans.” This will have several effects: the Republican legislators will either have to take responsibility for their association with him or stand up for what some of them don’t like; he will not get the focus of attention he craves; Republican representatives will become very concerned about their re-elections.

From one of my favorite movements at the moment – the alt-gov sites – Alt-National Park Service:

Image may contain: one or more people

 

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Previous Post: « The Executive Order on Entry to the US and Intelligence/Security Violations
Next Post: Grammy/Evening Open Thread »

Reader Interactions

209Comments

  1. 1.

    Keith G

    February 12, 2017 at 7:08 pm

    I just got a pop up from a new service that George Bush the first passed away. Haven’t found confirmation for that

  2. 2.

    Baud

    February 12, 2017 at 7:08 pm

    6. No more helpless/hopeless talk;

    NNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!

  3. 3.

    Baud

    February 12, 2017 at 7:10 pm

    @Keith G: Nothing yet on my news feed.

  4. 4.

    Keith G

    February 12, 2017 at 7:17 pm

    I have looked everywhere and that appears to have been some errant BS. I hope the old codger carries on, but the thought of a funeral with that collection of presidents ex and current and a eulogy by the sitting president…… well it would be very appealing and a multiple car pile-up kind of way.

  5. 5.

    SiubhanDuinne

    February 12, 2017 at 7:19 pm

    @Keith G:

    I actually hope that’s not true, although it would be unsurprising. Did a quick Googlearound and saw nothing, so let’s hope it’s fake news.

  6. 6.

    Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism

    February 12, 2017 at 7:20 pm

    @Keith G: Only place I’m seeing it is at fox-channel.com, which redirects to a domain in Johannesburg. I’m thinking you won’t find confirmation.

  7. 7.

    Trentrunner

    February 12, 2017 at 7:20 pm

    @Keith G: Trump will fuck up everything about this job, and it will drive his numbers lower.

    So I grimly look forward to events like a state funeral, where Trump will embarrass us all.

  8. 8.

    SiubhanDuinne

    February 12, 2017 at 7:21 pm

    I love the Smokey Bear “RESIST” poster.

  9. 9.

    debbie

    February 12, 2017 at 7:22 pm

    @Keith G:

    The only thing I’ve seen is from comicbook.com. Doesn’t seem like a credible source.

  10. 10.

    HeleninEire

    February 12, 2017 at 7:23 pm

    So my nym went crazy. Trying to reset it here.

  11. 11.

    Mary G

    February 12, 2017 at 7:24 pm

    Trump will talk about how he got more electoral votes, which is false.

  12. 12.

    Chet Murthy

    February 12, 2017 at 7:39 pm

    @SiubhanDuinne: That’s a Black Power salute, right? If that became the official “resist” salute, it’d be pretty awesome.

  13. 13.

    Steeplejack (tablet)

    February 12, 2017 at 7:41 pm

    Just to be clear, the “wise advice” did not originate with Bernice King. I saw it somewhere (I can’t remember) before she posted it. The Google is little help now: it has blown up with references to her post.

  14. 14.

    JPL

    February 12, 2017 at 7:42 pm

    @Keith G: It appears to be from a fake news site.

  15. 15.

    Schlemazel

    February 12, 2017 at 7:44 pm

    I was involved in resistance in the 60s. I was at a couple of peaceful events but this story may sound familiar as it has happened a couple of times recently that I know of. Peaceful marchers doing their thing. Suddenly a bunch of guys (always white guys and not really young guys) show up wearing masks. The rush the front of the event and start causing trouble, maybe attacking the police, maybe breaking windows and burning stuff. The police react as would be expected, pepper gas, clubs, arrests. But oddly enough the masks trouble makers never end up in the holding are for the arrested. Funny that.

  16. 16.

    SiubhanDuinne

    February 12, 2017 at 7:46 pm

    @Chet Murthy:

    That’s a Black Power salute, right?

    Bears and cultural appropriation! SAD!

  17. 17.

    Schlemazel

    February 12, 2017 at 7:50 pm

    @Keith G:
    Hell will still be there when the fucker dies so no hurry. OTOH, given that the Bushes hate hair furor and he hates them it should be high-larious. IF they let him talk the eulogy would be about how big his inauguration was and how the fake news says he is failing.

  18. 18.

    Omnes Omnibus

    February 12, 2017 at 7:53 pm

    @SiubhanDuinne: The original Smokey was a black bear.

    Edited

  19. 19.

    Mnemosyne

    February 12, 2017 at 7:53 pm

    @Keith G:

    I still think that he and Bar deliberately skipped the inauguration. They both looked pretty spry at the Super Bowl.

  20. 20.

    SiubhanDuinne

    February 12, 2017 at 7:54 pm

    @Schlemazel:

    IF they let him talk the eulogy would be about how big his inauguration was and how the fake news says he is failing.

    Probably also get in a dig about the Bushes being “low-energy” because you can’t get much lower-energy than being dead.

  21. 21.

    Eric S.

    February 12, 2017 at 7:54 pm

    Now I want a t-shirt with the resistance symbol ( Ω ) and the Smokey The Bear resistance pick on my phone.

  22. 22.

    bystander

    February 12, 2017 at 7:54 pm

    Watching the Grammys…Trumputin heartthrob Nancy O’Dell in severe leather.

  23. 23.

    SiubhanDuinne

    February 12, 2017 at 7:55 pm

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    No black bear! No black bear! You’re the black bear!

  24. 24.

    sigaba

    February 12, 2017 at 7:55 pm

    @SiubhanDuinne:

    Bears and cultural appropriation! SAD!

    Where’s the image of Smokey mauling Betsy DeVos? (As she raises her .38 to try to take him down.)

  25. 25.

    Mike in NC

    February 12, 2017 at 7:56 pm

    @Trentrunner: Remember the time Dick Cheney went to some funeral in Europe, representing the USA dressed like a frickin’ lumberjack in his fur hat and snowshoes? Those were the good old days, I guess.

  26. 26.

    SiubhanDuinne

    February 12, 2017 at 7:57 pm

    @sigaba:

    Where’s the image of Smokey mauling Betsy DeVos?

    “Paging Betty Cracker. Betty Cracker, please pick up the white courtesy phone, and bring your art supplies.”

  27. 27.

    Ceci n est pas mon nym

    February 12, 2017 at 7:59 pm

    @Keith G: Debunked.

    From a fake news site. Specifically a fake Fox news site.

    Edited my comment and removed the naked link, but amazingly FYWP allowed me to post said link without throwing it into moderation.

  28. 28.

    Thru the Looking Glass...

    February 12, 2017 at 8:01 pm

    @Schlemazel: That’s EXACTLY what happened in Berkeley last week w/ Yiannopoulos’ appearance at UC…

    Peaceful demonstration going on… Black Bloc infiltrates… all hell breaks loose… fires… broken windows… tear gas… peaceful demonstrators look bad and Yiannopoulos gets FAR, FAR more attention than he deserves…

    Same routine w/ Oscar Grant & Black Lives Matter demos…

    Read one time that the Blac Block fools are almost always white and NOT from Oakland…

    I live in the BA so I get to see this BS up close & personal…

  29. 29.

    GregB

    February 12, 2017 at 8:03 pm

    @Mike in NC:

    I think it was a Holocaust remembrance and Cheney was dressed like he was hunting beaver pelts in the Yukon.

    I am surprised he hasn’t been brought in by Trump as a special counsel on waterboarding and strategic sneering.

  30. 30.

    Omnes Omnibus

    February 12, 2017 at 8:07 pm

    @GregB: Wasn’t it a ceremony at Auschwitz?

  31. 31.

    Mary G

    February 12, 2017 at 8:09 pm

    Immediate evacuation of Oroville, CA ordered due to potential flood: "This in NOT A Drill. This in NOT A Drill. This in NOT A Drill." pic.twitter.com/1t8O1WwJcL— Jacob Soboroff (@jacobsoboroff) February 13, 2017

  32. 32.

    Mike J

    February 12, 2017 at 8:11 pm

    @Keith G: Fake,
    http://www.inquisitr.com/3974592/george-h-w-bush-not-dead-fake-fox-website-says-mr-bush-has-died-debunked/

  33. 33.

    SiubhanDuinne

    February 12, 2017 at 8:13 pm

    @GregB:
    @Omnes Omnibus:

    Yup, it was.

  34. 34.

    zhena gogolia

    February 12, 2017 at 8:15 pm

    @bystander:

    I hear he moved on her like a bitch.

  35. 35.

    SiubhanDuinne

    February 12, 2017 at 8:22 pm

    @Mary G:

    That is scary af

  36. 36.

    sacrablue

    February 12, 2017 at 8:23 pm

    @Mary G: Watching on local tv, their helicopter is on the way there now. So far they are just showing some amateur video from this morning. They said the emergency spillway is expected to fail at any time. It has never been used before. Just yesterday emergency officials said everything was going to be just fine. Now they are ordering evacuations on all low areas near the Feather River.

  37. 37.

    Brachiator

    February 12, 2017 at 8:24 pm

    From the San Jose Mercury News

    Evacuation Alert

    OROVILLE — An emergency evacuation has been ordered for Oroville residents by the state Department of Water Resources, which predicts that the auxilliary spillway at the Oroville Dam will fail within the next hour.

    The department issued the evacuation advisory around 4:40 p.m. Sunday, just four hours after holding a press conference where they said they didn’t anticipate such problems.

    Check back for updates to this breaking story

  38. 38.

    Baud

    February 12, 2017 at 8:25 pm

    @Mary G:
    LA times

    Operation of the auxiliary spillway has led to severe erosion that could lead to a failure of the structure,” the Sheriff’s Department said in a statement. “Failure of the auxiliary spillway structure will result in an uncontrolled release of flood waters from Lake Oroville.”

    Officials at the Department of Water Resources also sent out an alert saying: “Use of the auxiliary spillway has led to severe erosion that could lead to a failure of the structure.”

  39. 39.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    February 12, 2017 at 8:26 pm

    @Schlemazel:

    You can’t have a riot without the police being present.

  40. 40.

    SiubhanDuinne

    February 12, 2017 at 8:28 pm

    @sacrablue:
    @Mary G:
    @Brachiator:

    I know we have some BJ commenters who live in the area. I hope they are NOT seeing this comment in real time; rather, I hope they are getting the hell out of Dodge, to safety. Time enough later to post status updates. In the meantime, just be safe.

  41. 41.

    Brachiator

    February 12, 2017 at 8:28 pm

    Rachel Maddow had an excellent segment on the Oroville Dam Friday. Great visuals and graphics. It may still be available for viewing.

    I think her father may have a related background, so she wanted to get the facts right.

  42. 42.

    Schlemazel

    February 12, 2017 at 8:30 pm

    @Thru the Looking Glass…:
    I saw it twice when I was a kid & got gassed both times. I have read the events recently that sound exactly like it. SIGH

  43. 43.

    trollhattan

    February 12, 2017 at 8:34 pm

    @sacrablue:
    IIUC failure of the emergency spillway will unleash the lake’s top 30 feet. It has a concrete lip over fill, so I’m assuming that concrete is breaking up. This would mean phenomenal amounts of water. (Someone probably knows how much, not I.)

    The lake level is still nearly a foot above the spillway.

  44. 44.

    Kathleen

    February 12, 2017 at 8:34 pm

    @Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes: From downstairs thread, your description of Stephen Miller as Reinhard Heydrich was spot on. I couldn’t figure out which Nazi he most resembled until I saw your comment. He looks quite ghoulish.

  45. 45.

    Lyrebird

    February 12, 2017 at 8:34 pm

    Thanks for highlighting this, and for the science tyke with the science ties!!! So much awesome.

    Need to keep looking for the positive and the actionable…

    Is it just me, or should this revelation be listed under Not Normal?

    a senior Pentagon intelligence official… stated that “since January 20, we’ve assumed that the Kremlin has ears inside the SITROOM,”

    (I read it on DKos, it’s a quote from the Observer iiuc.)

  46. 46.

    Kathleen

    February 12, 2017 at 8:36 pm

    @SiubhanDuinne: Yes! I pray that all affected Juicers are safe.

  47. 47.

    sacrablue

    February 12, 2017 at 8:40 pm

    @trollhattan: I’m just watching channel 3.

  48. 48.

    Iowa Old Lady

    February 12, 2017 at 8:41 pm

    How well do we think this administration has FEMA operating?

  49. 49.

    Another Scott

    February 12, 2017 at 8:41 pm

    Bernice is a wise woman.

    Thanks for the pointer!

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  50. 50.

    raven

    February 12, 2017 at 8:41 pm

    @Schlemazel: Tommy the Traveller.

  51. 51.

    Baud

    February 12, 2017 at 8:41 pm

    @Iowa Old Lady: Hopefully, they haven’t had time to hurt FEMA yet.

  52. 52.

    amk

    February 12, 2017 at 8:42 pm

    twitler’s NK alter ego : look at me playing with missiles.

    twitler’s response: look at all the crowds which FAKE NEWS (sic) is not covering.

    two peas nuts in a pod

  53. 53.

    JCJ

    February 12, 2017 at 8:43 pm

    @SiubhanDuinne: Thanks for that link. I have tried to block memories over VP Voldemort from my memory.

  54. 54.

    oldster

    February 12, 2017 at 8:44 pm

    Slate posted this from a letter from MLK to people integrating the buses in Montgomery:

    4. Demonstrate the calm dignity of our Montgomery people in your actions.
    5. In all things observe ordinary rules of courtesy and good behavior
    6. Remember that this is not a victory for Negroes alone, but for all Montgomery and the South. Do not boast! Do not brag!
    7. Be quiet, but friendly; proud, but not arrogant; joyous, but not boisterous.
    8. Be loving enough to absorb evil and understanding enough to turn an enemy into a friend.

    I hope I can live up to it at the next Town Hall I attend.

  55. 55.

    Alternative Fax, a hip hop artist from Idaho

    February 12, 2017 at 8:45 pm

    @Lyrebird: Totally not normal, like damned near everything else about this regime. It’s from Schindler’s piece at the Observer. He’s said to be quite well connected in the IC, and has an informative twitter feed (@20committee).

  56. 56.

    chris

    February 12, 2017 at 8:45 pm

    Live feed from a helicopter over Oroville.

  57. 57.

    Lyrebird

    February 12, 2017 at 8:45 pm

    @Lyrebird: PS: I see Adam Silverman & Timurid commented on this in the previous thread.

  58. 58.

    Iowa Old Lady

    February 12, 2017 at 8:46 pm

    @Baud: A guy I know was head of FEMA in Iowa under Clinton, but then was removed under W. I guess it’s a political appointment.

  59. 59.

    Lyrebird

    February 12, 2017 at 8:48 pm

    @Alternative Fax, a hip hop artist from Idaho: Thank you! I wish I had the time and the video-editing chops to take clips from the Republican old guard (Ryan may be too young, for instance) promoting the “Evil Empire” view of Russia, and gee we could get everyone who denounced Obama’s executive orders, and just serve up quick YouTube slices of obvious hypocrisy.

    Might even be funny were there not so much at stake.

  60. 60.

    Another Scott

    February 12, 2017 at 8:49 pm

    @Mary G: Horse’s mouth: https://twitter.com/CA_DWR

    This is very bad. :-(

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  61. 61.

    Mike in NC

    February 12, 2017 at 8:52 pm

    @Lyrebird: Safe to assume the Kremlin has ears inside of the White House, Old Executive Office Building, Trump Tower, Mar-a-Lago, VP Residence, and maybe half a dozen other places.

  62. 62.

    sacrablue

    February 12, 2017 at 8:52 pm

    @SiubhanDuinne: Most of those BJers live north of Oroville (Chico, etc). People are being evacuated to Chico.

  63. 63.

    Thru the Looking Glass...

    February 12, 2017 at 8:53 pm

    @Schlemazel: So predictable… you could set your watch by it… SAD!

    Srsly… why wasn’t Berkeley & UC Berkeley law enforcement better prepared for that crap?

    I’ve watched the anarchist/Black Bloc crowd act out for decades… what a waste of time…

    Back when Occupy set up in front of Oakland City Hall, I went down there on a Saturday morning to see what was going on for myself… the minute I saw the anarchist A spray painted on tents, I knew how it would end and that it was a dead end…

  64. 64.

    jl

    February 12, 2017 at 8:56 pm

    It’s a group effort. W.E.B. Du Bois is one of my favorite authors, so I noticed the problem when the Dept of Education tried honor W.E.B. DeBois.

    Also, interesting and sad tweet from Paul Krugman. Apparently the Wharton MBA and world historical genius president did not understand that substantial public funding of his promised infrastructure project would increase the deficit (which actually, right now is not a problem). But apparently he didn’t know that before some man came in the room and told him, at which point the president got angry that no one had told him before. So, apparently, the infrastructure project is going to be even more of a corporate tax break scam than before. So much winning!

    Disturbing on many levels, but note in particular: bye bye fiscal stimulus
    https://twitter.com/paulkrugman/status/830752139953582081

  65. 65.

    Baud

    February 12, 2017 at 9:00 pm

    @Mike in NC: Including Balloon Juice.

  66. 66.

    Omnes Omnibus

    February 12, 2017 at 9:00 pm

    @jl: He does not have an MBA; his undergrad degree is from Wharton.

  67. 67.

    Corner Stone

    February 12, 2017 at 9:01 pm

    Ok, we get it. He fucked someone else. Jeebus.

  68. 68.

    Steeplejack

    February 12, 2017 at 9:02 pm

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    I think he changed his name to Smokey X, but the Park Service suppressed that.

  69. 69.

    Schlemazel

    February 12, 2017 at 9:02 pm

    @raven:
    Interesting, I had not heard of this particular incident. Several of the people arrested durin the ENC in st. paul, mn were released when it was determined that the organizers were cops.

  70. 70.

    jl

    February 12, 2017 at 9:02 pm

    @Omnes Omnibus: OK, thank you..

  71. 71.

    Baud

    February 12, 2017 at 9:03 pm

    @Corner Stone: Grammies?

  72. 72.

    Steeplejack

    February 12, 2017 at 9:03 pm

    @Ceci n est pas mon nym:

    Naked links are okay now. Fixed a month or two ago.

  73. 73.

    Major Major Major Major

    February 12, 2017 at 9:03 pm

    @Omnes Omnibus: Though he doesn’t exactly go out of his way to point that out.

  74. 74.

    NotMax

    February 12, 2017 at 9:03 pm

    *ahem*

    Martin Luther King Jr.

  75. 75.

    Mary G

    February 12, 2017 at 9:06 pm

    OMG this CNN story about the NK missile launch news arriving at Disgraceland:

    On Saturday evening, as the two men walked through Mar-a-Lago’s ornate wrought-iron doors on their way to dinner, neither responded to questions about the launch from reporters.
    Swanning through the club’s living room and main dining area alongside Abe, Trump was — as is now typical — swarmed with paying members, who now view dinner at the club as an opportunity for a few seconds of face time with the new President.
    But as he sat down for the planned working dinner with Abe, whose country is well within range of North Korea’s missiles, it was clear his counterpart felt it necessary to respond to the test. The launch occurred just before 8 a.m. on Sunday morning in Japan.
    Trump’s National Security Adviser Michael Flynn and chief strategist Steve Bannon left their seats to huddle closer to Trump as documents were produced and phone calls were placed to officials in Washington and Tokyo.
    The patio was lit only with candles and moonlight, so aides used the camera lights on their phones to help the stone-faced Trump and Abe read through the documents.

    I try not to go hopeless, but this gives me a hard time. It’s amateur hour all over every hour.

  76. 76.

    Suzanne

    February 12, 2017 at 9:07 pm

    Beyoncé is amazing.

  77. 77.

    trollhattan

    February 12, 2017 at 9:07 pm

    @sacrablue:
    Yuba County now issuing evacuation order for Marysville and Yuba City.

  78. 78.

    Lyrebird

    February 12, 2017 at 9:08 pm

    @Baud: Good point. Though I have a faulty snark-o-meter, maybe you were just making a funny.

    I’d guess that the modal BJ commenter probably doesn’t know anything more sensitive than the location of the nearest Girl Scout cookie dealer, and the exceptions… can’t think of a way to compare their discretion to the current Republican leadership’s that isn’t dmnation by faint praise.

    Maybe the snoopers have noted that with our various disagreements most of us think Assange is a pill?

  79. 79.

    Thru the Looking Glass...

    February 12, 2017 at 9:09 pm

    @Schlemazel: IMHO, it would be way easy to have one or two or three paid inflitrators go into a situation like we had on the Berkeley campus last week and make sure it gets out of control…

    100 plus individuals in black masks out of control who then disappear back into the crowd?

    That plays into the RW narrative way too well…

  80. 80.

    JPL

    February 12, 2017 at 9:09 pm

    @Mary G: Steve Bannon likes it that way..

    @Suzanne: Yes she is.

  81. 81.

    Mary G

    February 12, 2017 at 9:10 pm

    @Mary G: Forgot the link on #75. It was after this that he crashed a wedding, because the couple had paid him a lot of money over the years.

  82. 82.

    Omnes Omnibus

    February 12, 2017 at 9:10 pm

    @Suzanne: Water is wet.

  83. 83.

    sacrablue

    February 12, 2017 at 9:12 pm

    @trollhattan: Those people are going to have to head toward us. I think they could put a lot of people at Thunder Valley. Waiting to see if anything is flying out of Beale.

  84. 84.

    Corner Stone

    February 12, 2017 at 9:12 pm

    @Suzanne: Specifically to this performance, in what way?

  85. 85.

    Major Major Major Major

    February 12, 2017 at 9:14 pm

    @Mary G: Camera lights. On cell phones.

    WTF.

  86. 86.

    schrodingers_cat

    February 12, 2017 at 9:14 pm

    I just saw Melissa McCarthy on SNL, I couldn’t finish watching not because she was not good, but because she was. I am failing to see the humor in this, too close to reality.

  87. 87.

    Suzanne

    February 12, 2017 at 9:14 pm

    @Corner Stone: Um, did you SEE THAT? That was an incredible spectacle.

    @Omnes Omnibus: Spawn the Elder said, “My future wife.” I said, “After me.”

  88. 88.

    Corner Stone

    February 12, 2017 at 9:16 pm

    @Suzanne: Yes, I saw all of it. And?

  89. 89.

    AnotherBruce

    February 12, 2017 at 9:17 pm

    Hey TaMara, I just stole this for a fb post.I hope you don’t mind.

  90. 90.

    SiubhanDuinne

    February 12, 2017 at 9:17 pm

    @Mary G:

    From your link:

    The iceberg wedge salads, dripping with blue cheese dressing, had just been served on the terrace of Mar-a-Lago.

    That reads like either the first (“It was a dark and stormy night.”) or last (“Somewhere, a dog barked.”) sentence of a badly-written short story.

  91. 91.

    AnotherBruce

    February 12, 2017 at 9:18 pm

    By this, I mean the Smokey resist thing.

  92. 92.

    Suzanne

    February 12, 2017 at 9:19 pm

    @Corner Stone: I thought that was an incredibly weird and cool performance. Considering that she is already ginormous and can’t dance, which is what most of her performances are centered around, I thought it was riveting and the iconography was great.

    I am sure wingnut heads are also exploding and that makes me happy.

  93. 93.

    JPL

    February 12, 2017 at 9:20 pm

    @schrodingers_cat: The entire episode was like that. Cecily Strong as the judge in the people’s court was laughing when she said “Let me just say. You’re doing too much. I want one day without a CNN alert that scares the hell out of me,”

  94. 94.

    MomSense

    February 12, 2017 at 9:22 pm

    @SiubhanDuinne:

    Iceberg wedge salads??? Oh FFS. The food is as horrible as he is!

  95. 95.

    Iowa Old Lady

    February 12, 2017 at 9:24 pm

    @MomSense: Is Iceberg wedge salad even a real thing? Who doesn’t look at that and say couldn’t you have at least chopped it up? I mean how minimal an effort can you make?

  96. 96.

    Suzanne

    February 12, 2017 at 9:25 pm

    @MomSense: I only eat an iceberg wedge salad when I am at a restaurant of someone else’s choosing and there are no better options. It is a desperation salad, for sure.

  97. 97.

    amk

    February 12, 2017 at 9:25 pm

    Other than the scientists’ march in April, anything else being leveraged out of the epic pu$$yhat march?

  98. 98.

    JPL

    February 12, 2017 at 9:26 pm

    @Iowa Old Lady: Yes, it’s a thing, but I have never tried it. yuk

  99. 99.

    amk

    February 12, 2017 at 9:26 pm

    when did pu..yhat become a mod monster’s fav?

  100. 100.

    Major Major Major Major

    February 12, 2017 at 9:27 pm

    @Iowa Old Lady: It’s what trashy people think rich people eat at fancypants steakhouses.

    @SiubhanDuinne: It’s not the world’s greatest sentence but it’s very evocative. Why’s it have to be a bad story?

  101. 101.

    Omnes Omnibus

    February 12, 2017 at 9:28 pm

    @MomSense: They are awful people in every way.

  102. 102.

    MomSense

    February 12, 2017 at 9:28 pm

    @Iowa Old Lady: @Suzanne:

    Desperation salad! Ha! Of all the things to serve Abe the poor man had to suffer through make your own sandwiches with miracle whip and iceberg wedge salads?

  103. 103.

    Mary G

    February 12, 2017 at 9:28 pm

    @MomSense: @Iowa Old Lady: @Suzanne: He probably thinks it will make America great again, to go back to the 50s, or whenever iceberg salad was last chic.

  104. 104.

    schrodingers_cat

    February 12, 2017 at 9:28 pm

    @Suzanne: Where is Carol Duhart 2 to tell us that’s what immigrants/muslins/jews and blacks aspire to.

  105. 105.

    ? Martin

    February 12, 2017 at 9:29 pm

    Regarding Oroville, the concern is that the emergency spillway could fail tonight. The dam itself is fine – but the main spillway is over to the side, and the emergency spillway is even farther over. The emergency spillway is a short concrete structure that allows water to flow over if the lake overtops – designed to keep the water from overtopping the dam itself. The lake is now so full that water isn’t just going over the emergency spillway but also over the land on the other side of emergency spillway.

    The order is for anyone in low-lying areas downstream of the dam to around Marysville. The concern is twofold:

    1) the runoff from the emergency spillway is pushing large pieces of debris into the river which can block up the river. The road which was creating a small holding pool gave way and has washed down into the river.
    2) if the water is going over next to the emergency spillway, that concrete apron will start to get undercut and the area next to it where water is flowing, which is just dirt, will erode down below the level of the apron. If it were to fail, there would be potentially a sudden and uncontrolled release of water that would continue to lower the maximum potential water level and send significant volumes of debris into the river – and the river is already at or above flood stage in many locations.

    The constructed part of the dam itself is fine, but instead of a maximum lake level of 901 feet, it could erode down to 890 or 880 feet. It’s unlikely just due to the sheer size of the hill (it’s about 2 miles from the edge of the lake to the river) that it can erode down all that far, but it can send a lot of mud, trees, boulders, etc. along the way.

    I’d like to say it’s unlikely this would extend as far down as sacramento, but so far this whole scenario has been living pretty close to the ‘worst case scenario’ side of the good news/bad news spectrum. Ultimately it means they’re losing their ability to control what happens at the dam. Who knows what the next storm would then bring.

  106. 106.

    chris

    February 12, 2017 at 9:29 pm

    @MomSense: The glory days of the 1960s!

  107. 107.

    Suzanne

    February 12, 2017 at 9:29 pm

    @JPL: I have eaten them when at sports bar-type places with a group of people and I don’t want to eat fried food, because I don’t want to spend the rest of the day farting.

  108. 108.

    Alternative Fax, a hip hop artist from Idaho

    February 12, 2017 at 9:30 pm

    @MomSense: I think it’s actually slightly worse than getting puked on, because this abomination was intentional. Of course when you’ve got striving borough trash as a host, it’s about what we’d expect from such an event.

  109. 109.

    MomSense

    February 12, 2017 at 9:30 pm

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    Nightmare.

  110. 110.

    JPL

    February 12, 2017 at 9:31 pm

    @Suzanne: I thought it was a southern thing.

  111. 111.

    Elizabelle

    February 12, 2017 at 9:33 pm

    Gary Clark Jr.

  112. 112.

    Suzanne

    February 12, 2017 at 9:33 pm

    @JPL: I’m sure it is a southern thing. White people in the south commit atrocities to vegetables.

    Seriously. Name more than five good things from the south that came from white people. Go ahead. I’ll wait.

  113. 113.

    chris

    February 12, 2017 at 9:34 pm

    @? Martin: I’m following this live twitter feed. You’ll be glad to know that this all Jerry Brown’s, and possibly Obama’s, fault.
    Jesus, these people

  114. 114.

    Iowa Old Lady

    February 12, 2017 at 9:39 pm

    @chris: I saw a live chat thread alongside a You Tube video of the dam. It was mean, hateful, and disturbing. People see a dangerous situation developing and their first impulse is to say more or less serves liberals right?

  115. 115.

    Aleta

    February 12, 2017 at 9:41 pm

    Live news channel with some aerials of the dam. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yF3j82YEsTo&feature=youtu.be

  116. 116.

    Omnes Omnibus

    February 12, 2017 at 9:42 pm

    @Suzanne: Jimmy Carter, Johnny Cash, Elvis, Jerry Lee Lewis, Jim Stewart, Estelle Axton, Donald Dunn, and Steve Cropper.

    ETA: Fuck it, Bill Clinton too.

  117. 117.

    chris

    February 12, 2017 at 9:43 pm

    @Iowa Old Lady: Seeing some pushback. Along the lines of, “What are all these MAGA voters gonna do when Trump ignores the disaster?”

  118. 118.

    jl

    February 12, 2017 at 9:44 pm

    @chris: Food History website says the iceberge wedge first recorded (edit: maybe one of the first…) in 1916 cookbook. No one claims it.
    I don’t see the problem. It’s just a hunk of lettuce, for Yeebus sake. Smothering it in a mountain of creamy dressing is a problem, but most of that can be easily scraped off, or lifted off if the cut side of the wedge is down. But at a Drumpf dinner, he might get offended by that.

  119. 119.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    February 12, 2017 at 9:45 pm

    @MomSense: FDR served hot dogs to the King and Queen of England, both sides!

  120. 120.

    jl

    February 12, 2017 at 9:45 pm

    Forgot the link:

    Classic Iceberg Wedge
    and
    Hearts of Lettuce Recipes
    The history of Iceberg Lettuce
    http://www.kitchenproject.com/history/Salads_Lettuce/ClassicIcebergWedge.htm

  121. 121.

    Corner Stone

    February 12, 2017 at 9:46 pm

    @Omnes Omnibus: wrong thread

  122. 122.

    jl

    February 12, 2017 at 9:49 pm

    @Iowa Old Lady: That is northeastern side of Sacramento Valley. It is very decidedly NOT a liberal part of California.

  123. 123.

    chopper

    February 12, 2017 at 9:49 pm

    @?BillinGlendaleCA:

    that came from hard-ass personal qualities but also the fact that America was at the ATM with less than $20 in checking and needed to pay for world War II.

  124. 124.

    chris

    February 12, 2017 at 9:51 pm

    @jl: Just makes me laugh. After hearing that Trump likes his steak well done, Wendy’s and KFC I’d be willing to bet that he doesn’t eat anything that his mother didn’t serve him. He’s a child in all things.
    Also, have you ever tried to eat an iceberg wedge with just a salad fork? Disaster waiting to happen, believe me.

  125. 125.

    jl

    February 12, 2017 at 9:51 pm

    @chopper: Maybe that was part of the very quaint custom in the old days where the leaders made a point in sharing in the sacrifices of the mass of the people during a crisis? Would be interesting to get the background on that FDR hot dog dinner for the Brit royalty.

  126. 126.

    scav

    February 12, 2017 at 9:52 pm

    The canny Trumpian business eeeee-leeeeet, plopping down $200K for a membership and sitting down to a plate of 1/4 of iceberg lettuce with a glop of dressing on top?! O! the dizzying glitz and unimaginable glamour of the high life.

  127. 127.

    Omnes Omnibus

    February 12, 2017 at 9:52 pm

    @chopper: It was also a few aristocrats who had no need to impress one another meeting up .

  128. 128.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    February 12, 2017 at 9:53 pm

    @Omnes Omnibus: @Suzanne: Molly Ivins, Larry McMurtry, James McMurtry, Flannery O’Connor, Vince Gilligan, Andy Griffith, Harper Lee….

  129. 129.

    Gin & Tonic

    February 12, 2017 at 9:53 pm

    @?BillinGlendaleCA: LBJ hosted a barbecue in a high school gym in Texas for the West German Chancellor.

  130. 130.

    Major Major Major Major

    February 12, 2017 at 9:54 pm

    @chris: blame liberals, obviously. They spent years blaming pelosi for the drought!

  131. 131.

    jl

    February 12, 2017 at 9:54 pm

    @chris: You have to wield the fork like a very blunt sword, and hope the flying debris don’t do too much damage. Sort of like whole cherry tomatoes on a plate.

  132. 132.

    Jeffro

    February 12, 2017 at 9:55 pm

    @Lyrebird: Was just getting ready to link to that one, holy cow.

    There is more consequential IC pushback happening, too. Our spies have never liked Trump’s lackadaisical attitude toward the President’s Daily Brief, the most sensitive of all IC documents, which the new commander-in-chief has received haphazardly. The president has frequently blown off the PDB altogether, tasking Flynn with condensing it into a one-page summary with no more than nine bullet-points. Some in the IC are relieved by this, but there are pervasive concerns that the president simply isn’t paying attention to intelligence.

    In light of this, and out of worries about the White House’s ability to keep secrets, some of our spy agencies have begun withholding intelligence from the Oval Office. Why risk your most sensitive information if the president may ignore it anyway? A senior National Security Agency official explained that NSA was systematically holding back some of the “good stuff” from the White House, in an unprecedented move. For decades, NSA has prepared special reports for the president’s eyes only, containing enormously sensitive intelligence. In the last three weeks, however, NSA has ceased doing this, fearing Trump and his staff cannot keep their best SIGINT secrets.

    Since NSA provides something like 80 percent of the actionable intelligence in our government, what’s being kept from the White House may be very significant indeed. However, such concerns are widely shared across the IC, and NSA doesn’t appear to be the only agency withholding intelligence from the administration out of security fears.

    What’s going on was explained lucidly by a senior Pentagon intelligence official, who stated that “since January 20, we’ve assumed that the Kremlin has ears inside the SITROOM,” meaning the White House Situation Room, the 5,500 square-foot conference room in the West Wing where the president and his top staffers get intelligence briefings. “There’s not much the Russians don’t know at this point,” the official added in wry frustration.

    Flynn/Russia has to be the story this week…and then let’s hope that bigger things come of it!

  133. 133.

    ? Martin

    February 12, 2017 at 9:55 pm

    Ah, this information is a bit different.

    The concern here is that the hillside in front of the emergency spillway has been eroding to such an extent that it may undermine the concrete apron of the emergency spillway. If that happened, it would release water from the 880 to 870 foot level of the dam (the bottom of the spillway apron). That would be under considerable pressure and could very quickly cause the spillway apron to fail.

    The plan is to lower the lake level below 901 as quickly as possible to minimize the flow over the apron. It’s that flow which is causing the erosion. If they can keep the lake below 901, everything may be okay. It looks like they’ll get it below 901 in an hour or so. They will start adding stone fill to the eroded area using helicopters (they did this before the lake overfilled) to help minimize the rate of erosion and they can continue that until the next storm. My guess is they’ll keep the main spillway open at 100K CFS from here out, lower the level of the lake as much as possible so that the next storm isn’t able to push the lake level over 901 again.

  134. 134.

    Suzanne

    February 12, 2017 at 9:57 pm

    Geez, people. Don’t name people. Name movements, trends, touchstones.

  135. 135.

    Omnes Omnibus

    February 12, 2017 at 9:58 pm

    @Suzanne: People are tangible objects (a.k.a. things).

    ETA: Fine. To Kill a Mockingbird, All the King’s Men, etc.

  136. 136.

    MobiusKlein

    February 12, 2017 at 9:59 pm

    ah, snowmelt.
    global w**ming

  137. 137.

    PhoenixRising

    February 12, 2017 at 10:00 pm

    @Suzanne: The South gave us John Lewis, the SCLC, and half of SNCC. Without the model of our own American civil rights movement displacing abusive power without violence, today would be damn hopeless.

  138. 138.

    Doug R

    February 12, 2017 at 10:01 pm

    @Mary G: I can’t believe they either don’t have or won’t fire up house lights for an incident like that on a patio. Fire Marshal should shut that dump down.

  139. 139.

    Omnes Omnibus

    February 12, 2017 at 10:02 pm

    @PhoenixRising: She is shitting on white people, not the South as a whole.

  140. 140.

    PhoenixRising

    February 12, 2017 at 10:03 pm

    ‘The South’ is not white people, is my point. And I stand by it.

  141. 141.

    ? Martin

    February 12, 2017 at 10:03 pm

    @Iowa Old Lady: Sure, except that Butte county went for Trump. This is the conservative part of the state.

  142. 142.

    chris

    February 12, 2017 at 10:03 pm

    @? Martin: Yes. KCRA interviewed the sheriff who made the call. Excess of caution maybe but he didn’t want to make the call any later.

  143. 143.

    Suzanne

    February 12, 2017 at 10:04 pm

    @PhoenixRising: Yeah, I said that pretty much everything good from the south came from black people. The food, the music, the poetry, etc etc etc.

  144. 144.

    Omnes Omnibus

    February 12, 2017 at 10:06 pm

    @PhoenixRising:

    Name more than five good things from the south that came from white people. Go ahead. I’ll wait.

    Context matters.

  145. 145.

    Suzanne

    February 12, 2017 at 10:07 pm

    @PhoenixRising:

    Name more than five good things from the south that came from white people.

    The implication being that almost everything awesome created in the south was created by black people.

  146. 146.

    Corner Stone

    February 12, 2017 at 10:08 pm

    HAHAHAHAHA

  147. 147.

    PhoenixRising

    February 12, 2017 at 10:09 pm

    @Suzanne: Fine. In no particular order:
    Buttermilk biscuits with sausage gravy
    ‘Ring of Fire’, best song about failure to resist infidelity ever written
    ‘The Member of the Wedding’
    ‘The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn’
    and the collected works of Adrienne Rich.

  148. 148.

    Suzanne

    February 12, 2017 at 10:09 pm

    James Hetfield is about 856,000 years old and is trying to stay relevant. So adorable.

  149. 149.

    Suzanne

    February 12, 2017 at 10:10 pm

    @PhoenixRising: Biscuits and gravy are a crime against humanity. Seriously. I wouldn’t feed it to prisoners. Cruel and unusual punishment.

  150. 150.

    Corner Stone

    February 12, 2017 at 10:11 pm

    It’s ridiculous to say people do not matter. And then go on to say poetry, food, music, etc. People do all that. It doesn’t just spring out of the devil’s ass.

  151. 151.

    Omnes Omnibus

    February 12, 2017 at 10:11 pm

    @Suzanne: He is exactly one year older than me. ::side-eye::

  152. 152.

    Corner Stone

    February 12, 2017 at 10:12 pm

    People change history.

  153. 153.

    Corner Stone

    February 12, 2017 at 10:12 pm

    @Suzanne: You’re just beclowning yourself now.

  154. 154.

    PhoenixRising

    February 12, 2017 at 10:13 pm

    @Suzanne: Guess none of your aunts can cook, then. Too bad for you. That changes nothing.

  155. 155.

    Suzanne

    February 12, 2017 at 10:13 pm

    @Omnes Omnibus: Sorry about being old. I hope you aren’t so desperate to cling to relevance among the yoot. I also hope that you aren’t a member of the NRA like Hetfield is.

  156. 156.

    philadelphialawyer

    February 12, 2017 at 10:13 pm

    Totally agree.

    I think number four is somewhat underrated. Frankly, I don’t like the constant references to the size of his hands, his hair, his weight, his ties, his bathrobe, his skin tone and so on. If he governed like Obama governed, or like Bill Clinton governed, or like Hillary or Gore or Kerry would have governed, and pursued their policies, I would be happy, and would not care about his appearance. Same thing as it really is. His policies suck. His governance sucks. Focus on that. Not on how he looks.

    And we can still follow Lennon’s advice and be humorous, without resorting to attacks on his appearance.

  157. 157.

    Peale

    February 12, 2017 at 10:13 pm

    @?BillinGlendaleCA: Ben’s Chili Bowl. I think Obama took Tony Blair there.

  158. 158.

    ? Martin

    February 12, 2017 at 10:14 pm

    @Lyrebird:

    I’d guess that the modal BJ commenter probably doesn’t know anything more sensitive than the location of the nearest Girl Scout cookie dealer, and the exceptions… can’t think of a way to compare their discretion to the current Republican leadership’s that isn’t dmnation by faint praise.

    I disagree on the former part of this statement. A LOT of people need to deal with client confidentiality, HIPAA, FERPA, etc. Granted, none of this is national security level stuff, but you protect it with as much zeal because in either case it’s your job. Any teacher, doctor, nurse, lawyer, financial planner, many if not most government officials, etc.

    Nobody I work with would discuss details of a student in a dining room, or of a medical patient, etc.

  159. 159.

    Suzanne

    February 12, 2017 at 10:16 pm

    @PhoenixRising: Sorry. I think white people southern food is vile. As a culinary contribution to world culture, I think it is SAD! Every time I have to eat southern food, I wonder why they have such an aversion to flavor.

  160. 160.

    Omnes Omnibus

    February 12, 2017 at 10:17 pm

    @Suzanne: I don’t disagree with your ultimate premise – even most of the musical folks I named at first were people who became a part of black music (or appropriated it, some might argue).

  161. 161.

    Gin & Tonic

    February 12, 2017 at 10:18 pm

    @Suzanne: I have been known to drive long distances just to eat biscuits and gravy.

  162. 162.

    MomSense

    February 12, 2017 at 10:18 pm

    Dolt 45 huddled with Abe about NoKo in the middle of the dining room in front of paying guests?? WTF

    They haven’t set up a more secure situation at his beloved “winter White House”?

    This is terrifying.

  163. 163.

    Omnes Omnibus

    February 12, 2017 at 10:19 pm

    @Suzanne: Bite me.

  164. 164.

    Gin & Tonic

    February 12, 2017 at 10:19 pm

    @Suzanne: Ever had she-crab soup in Charleston? Sublime.

  165. 165.

    Suzanne

    February 12, 2017 at 10:23 pm

    @Omnes Omnibus: Yeah, when you said “Elvis Presley”, I was like, “Ummmmmm”. That’s why I said movements, not people.

    @Gin & Tonic: I have been known to skip meals and experience hypoglycemia in order to avoid eating biscuits and gravy.

    I remember having to go out to eat with Mr. Suzanne’s family, and his grandfather, who was the quintessential old southern farmer, ixnayed a whole slew of genres of food on the basis of having “too much flavor”. I also remembering ordering green beans and them coming out covered in lard and bacon. FFS. Why not just piss on them?

  166. 166.

    Suzanne

    February 12, 2017 at 10:24 pm

    @Gin & Tonic: No, but I will give it a try if I’m ever in Charleston. I love good seafood.

  167. 167.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    February 12, 2017 at 10:26 pm

    @Suzanne:

    I also remembering ordering green beans and them coming out covered in lard and bacon. FFS. Why not just piss on them?

    I believe that’s bacon grease, and with copious amounts of pepper added in, it’s quite good.

  168. 168.

    Suzanne

    February 12, 2017 at 10:27 pm

    @Omnes Omnibus: Hey, there’s lots of old rockers who don’t seem like try-hards like Hetfield. They manage to make interesting music deep into their careers without looking desperate.

    James Hetfield just looks…..SAD!

  169. 169.

    Corner Stone

    February 12, 2017 at 10:29 pm

    @Suzanne: Aren’t you a vegetarian?

  170. 170.

    Suzanne

    February 12, 2017 at 10:30 pm

    @?BillinGlendaleCA: I tried them. The sliminess of the lard, bacon grease, whatever completely destroyed what is delicious about green beans, which is their crunchiness when cooked right. Gross. Sorry. It seemed like a vegetable dish dreamed up by someone who hates vegetables.

  171. 171.

    Omnes Omnibus

    February 12, 2017 at 10:30 pm

    @Suzanne: I have never watched the Grammys, so I have no idea what he said or did.

  172. 172.

    Aleta

    February 12, 2017 at 10:30 pm

    @Suzanne: Coca Cola, Pepsi. A Southern woman invented a windshield wiper.

  173. 173.

    Suzanne

    February 12, 2017 at 10:32 pm

    @Corner Stone: No, I am not a vegetarian. I was a vegetarian for a while, but I haven’t been for some years now. I love vegetables, though.

    Growing up, I hated Brussels sprouts with the fire of a thousand suns. But I had some Brussels sprouts last week that made me say, “Damn, those were INCREDIBLE.” That’s when I realized that I am old.

  174. 174.

    Suzanne

    February 12, 2017 at 10:35 pm

    @Aleta: I would definitely not include Coke or Pepsi in a list of great cultural contributions. They strike me as the gustatory equivalent of “Everybody Loves Raymond”—absurdly popular, despite their mediocrity.

    The windshield wiper thing is cool.

  175. 175.

    Suzanne

    February 12, 2017 at 10:36 pm

    @Omnes Omnibus: Hetfield just performed with Lady Gaga and she was so much better than he was that it was….notable.

  176. 176.

    Omnes Omnibus

    February 12, 2017 at 10:38 pm

    @Suzanne: Sorry, I thought that I had indicated that really I don’t care about the Grammys.

  177. 177.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    February 12, 2017 at 10:39 pm

    @Suzanne: I first had prepared in Austria by a chef that was french trained.

  178. 178.

    MomSense

    February 12, 2017 at 10:41 pm

    @Suzanne:

    I love Brussels sprouts roasted.

  179. 179.

    Alternative Fax, a hip hop artist from Idaho

    February 12, 2017 at 10:42 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: Walker Percy, Townes Van Zandt, Guy Clark …

  180. 180.

    Librarian

    February 12, 2017 at 10:42 pm

    @PhoenixRising: And William Faulkner, Carson McCullers, Flannery O Connor, Erskine Caldwell, Eudora Welty, Tennessee Williams, Robert Penn Warren, Walker Percy, Truman Capote, etc., etc., etc.,

  181. 181.

    Aleta

    February 12, 2017 at 10:44 pm

    Trying to remember but my grandmother made a sponge cake that supposedly came from the south. It had pecans between the layers and was soaked in bourbon. The sponge cake was supposedly a big deal, according to others. Had to be very light, lots of air. My cousin is compulsive about how to make it. Also southern midwest whites fed me jello with grated carrots, and another jello thing I barely remember that was mixed with whipped cream and canned mandarin slices and coconut; I think it was called ambrosia. I had to eat both those things at every potluck and church supper we had to go to.

  182. 182.

    Alternative Fax, a hip hop artist from Idaho

    February 12, 2017 at 10:49 pm

    @Suzanne: Totally tolerant of other regional cuisines and (no doubt tasteless social customs as well), I see. Well alrighty then.

  183. 183.

    Smiling Mortician

    February 12, 2017 at 10:50 pm

    @Suzanne: The Southern Gothic tradition in literature (McCullers, Welty, O’Connor, etc.) is important and meaningful. As well as some of the best first-wave feminist literature (Kate Chopin?). The point is that it’s just silly to challenge people to come up with 5 good things from the non-black South and then keep moving your goalposts (Not people! Things! Whole movements!) and also dismissing things that you don’t personally like (bacon grease, I guess?)

    Denigrating whole populations based on where they live and what color their skin is isn’t really any better when you’re aiming at a population you feel comfortable dismissing because they’re icky or whatever.

  184. 184.

    SFAW

    February 12, 2017 at 10:53 pm

    @SiubhanDuinne:

    Trump’s entire oeuvre (re: any form of “communications”) could win every Bulwer-Lytton contest from now until the rivers flow backwards.

  185. 185.

    Lyrebird

    February 12, 2017 at 10:58 pm

    @? Martin:

    A LOT of people need to deal with client confidentiality

    In case you’re still reading, and totally understood if not, YES i agree with what you’re saying.

    I guess I’m still thinking in a very old-school way about what “intelligence” an outside group would want to gather, and I should remember how the worm got onto the Vermont energy workers’ (sorry for poor wording) computers.

  186. 186.

    philadelphialawyer

    February 12, 2017 at 10:59 pm

    @Smiling Mortician:

    “Denigrating whole populations based on where they live and what color their skin is isn’t really any better when you’re aiming at a population you feel comfortable dismissing because they’re icky or whatever.”

    And is particularly jarring in a thread with Ms. King’s good advice as its theme.

  187. 187.

    Suzanne

    February 12, 2017 at 11:01 pm

    @Smiling Mortician: From my study—and yes, I studied a great deal of art history—the majority of the best cultural contributions from that part of the world were created by black people and then were co-opted by white people. That is not to say that there isn’t meaningful art created by white people, but it’s also fantasy to gloss over the appropriation that occurred (especially in music). Putting up Elvis as an example of meaningful cultural contributions of white people? Oy. Erasure.

  188. 188.

    Suzanne

    February 12, 2017 at 11:02 pm

    @Smiling Mortician:

    Denigrating whole populations based on where they live and what color their skin is isn’t really any better when you’re aiming at a population you feel comfortable dismissing because they’re icky or whatever.

    All art matters.

  189. 189.

    Omnes Omnibus

    February 12, 2017 at 11:07 pm

    @Suzanne: Elvis made that music acceptable without being Pat Boone with it. Motown and Stax owe him a bit. Elvis did it as raw as the black musicians did.

  190. 190.

    philadelphialawyer

    February 12, 2017 at 11:09 pm

    “From my study—and yes, I studied a great deal of art history”

    Have a cookie.

    “All art matters.”

    Completely full of shit apples and oranges allusion.

  191. 191.

    Brachiator

    February 12, 2017 at 11:14 pm

    @Suzanne:

    Biscuits and gravy are a crime against humanity.

    You’re funny. Zola said something similar about all of English food.

    Biscuits and gravy, BBQ and grits are America’s gift to the world. Along with fried chicken, sweet potato pie, and Coca Cola.

  192. 192.

    Lyrebird

    February 12, 2017 at 11:17 pm

    @Omnes Omnibus: Hmm, maybe I can come around to seeing your view re: Motown, bc Elvis… “was a hero to most but” etc etc. (Living Color song)

    The earlier examples – Jimmy Carter and Molly Ivins and hey what about Ann Richards? stand, though, as do Tammy Wynette and Dolly Parton and a whole heap of Athens GA singers.

    @Suzanne: A lot of the best of Southern cooking is African & African-American-influenced, including gumbo, and also including boiling the living crpp out of vegetables. Ever had Congolese-style greens? Nigerian-style cassava?

  193. 193.

    Omnes Omnibus

    February 12, 2017 at 11:18 pm

    @philadelphialawyer: Try linking. It helps the conversation.

  194. 194.

    philadelphialawyer

    February 12, 2017 at 11:19 pm

    @Omnes Omnibus: Fuck it. She knows I am quoting her. And so does anyone else still on this thread.

  195. 195.

    Suzanne

    February 12, 2017 at 11:21 pm

    @Omnes Omnibus: Elvis made it acceptable for white people because he was white. No doubt he had talent. But no mistake….he picked up the ball and ran with it, and made a lot more money than others did because of his race and looks. He stood on the shoulders of a movement/art for that was created by black people.

    @philadelphialawyer: No. Not at all. White people have plenty of cultural contributions of which to be proud. The freakin’ Italian peninsula alone could carry Europe for a thousand years. The British Isles has batted waaaaay above their weight in terms of literature. Germans and modern design? Unbelievable. So no one has to feel denigrated. But it is pretty undeniable that most of the cultural contributions of the Deep South didn’t originate with whites, and yet they get credit for a lot that they didn’t create. That appropriation is pretty shitty.

    And in terms of Southern food, here’s the test: if you go somewhere else in the world outside the US, how many restaurants do you find serving Southern white food? Not many.

  196. 196.

    Omnes Omnibus

    February 12, 2017 at 11:25 pm

    @Lyrebird: I think that Vernon Reid misinterpreted him. For the rest, fuck off. I was asked for more than five. I offered six. I am from WI; if you have a big defend the South thing going on, don’t put it on me.

  197. 197.

    Suzanne

    February 12, 2017 at 11:25 pm

    @Lyrebird: I loooove pretty much everything you just listed. I agree—the best food out of the South originated with black people. The soul food restaurants here often have lines. Freakin’ amazing.

  198. 198.

    philadelphialawyer

    February 12, 2017 at 11:30 pm

    “Cultural appropriation” yes, and, yes, shitty b/c unacknowledged and power imbalance.

    But not the same thing as “white southern people never produced anything good.”

    Not rocket science here. And if you really knew even jack shit about culture, art, etc, you would understand the difference.

    As for food, gustibus non disputatum, or whatever the Latin phrase is.

  199. 199.

    Omnes Omnibus

    February 12, 2017 at 11:30 pm

    @Suzanne: Don’t think that I don’t know what Elvis did. I already said it. Stop it. Just stop it.

  200. 200.

    Brachiator

    February 12, 2017 at 11:34 pm

    @Suzanne:

    .And in terms of Southern food, here’s the test: if you go somewhere else in the world outside the US, how many restaurants do you find serving Southern white food? Not many.

    How many are serving any kind of American food?

    Not many. Unless you classify McDonald’s and KFC as food.

  201. 201.

    stinger

    February 12, 2017 at 11:39 pm

    @SiubhanDuinne: “I like ex-presidents who aren’t dead.”

  202. 202.

    Lyrebird

    February 12, 2017 at 11:41 pm

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    if you have a big defend the South thing going on,

    Nope.

    And if I were really seeking to have an argument with you, we could debate the adding of orange color to cheese or something super-important like that. But I’m not.

    Grateful for some social insights and or snark before I admit the reality that it’s past bedtime on this coast and I didn’t finish my grading.

  203. 203.

    Svensker

    February 12, 2017 at 11:53 pm

    @Iowa Old Lady: Iceberg wedge salad became a hip thing a couple years ago. With blue cheese dressing it’s so retro!

  204. 204.

    Svensker

    February 13, 2017 at 12:03 am

    @Brachiator: yes. And green beans cooked to death with pork. Yum.

  205. 205.

    Suzanne

    February 13, 2017 at 12:04 am

    @philadelphialawyer: Actually, here’s something good that Southern white people invented that has had some serious staying power: the residential architecture of that chunk of the world is really fabulous. Admired by people all over the world. It’s an interesting mix of Georgian and Federalist styles with the climatic adaptations of the indigenous peoples. To say nothing of the place-making of New Orleans.

    Having said that, I still contend that the vast majority of the best cultural contributions from that corner of the world, the ones that have lasted across time and place, started with black people.

  206. 206.

    Groucho48

    February 13, 2017 at 2:09 am

    Airplanes and anesthesia. I think air conditioning, too, but that’s a faint memory of reading about it years ago. Moving on to the B’s, bourbon. C’s…cotton gin. Cheating a bit…the first college in the world to grant degrees to women was in Georgia.

  207. 207.

    Porlock Junior

    February 13, 2017 at 3:33 am

    @Omnes Omnibus: @Iowa Old Lady: Real? The very mention of it got me almost started on a Proustian recollection of the days I spent in Pacific Beach (Ssn Diego) in 1965. However, I am sure that Marcel’s grandma’s madeleines were on a much higher level than those from (some chain that also also owned Jack In The Box, but I’ve forgotten the name).

    Definitely a real thing, but it has been a long time since I’ve had one of those things.

    I bring it up not just because I’m senescent, causing this memory to be triggered by synergy with a quasi-sentimental journey I made a couple of years ago to the old neighborhood, but as a striking instance of the classiness of Trump’s personal bon-vivant paradise.

  208. 208.

    Porlock Junior

    February 13, 2017 at 3:48 am

    @jl: By all (ok, maybe both) accounts that I’ve seen, His Majesty enjoyed the hot dogs. It may have been something of a treat, something from the rather short list of things he had not had before. I do think the First Lady was not happy with the choice. What Mrs. Majesty thought, I do not know. (The incident is noted in the Roosevelts documentary of a year or two ago, and if you missed the show the first time, it’s worth going back to.)

  209. 209.

    J R in WV

    February 13, 2017 at 12:54 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    Tennessee Williams, Truman Capote, Harper Lee…

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