Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

When do we start airlifting the women and children out of Texas?

In my day, never was longer.

Only Democrats have agency, apparently.

Shallow, uninformed, and lacking identity

Their freedom requires your slavery.

Good lord, these people are nuts.

Do not shrug your shoulders and accept the normalization of untruths.

Since when do we limit our critiques to things we could do better ourselves?

“But what about the lurkers?”

Nothing worth doing is easy.

Damn right I heard that as a threat.

Let me eat cake. The rest of you could stand to lose some weight, frankly.

Historically it was a little unusual for the president to be an incoherent babbling moron.

You cannot shame the shameless.

Proof that we need a blogger ethics panel.

Accused of treason; bitches about the ratings. I am in awe.

Consistently wrong since 2002

Russian mouthpiece, go fuck yourself.

They traffic in fear. it is their only currency. if we are fearful, they are winning.

I’d try pessimism, but it probably wouldn’t work.

A thin legal pretext to veneer over their personal religious and political desires

Hot air and ill-informed banter

That’s my take and I am available for criticism at this time.

The cruelty is the point; the law be damned.

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Reader Interactions

249Comments

  3. 3.

    kindness

    Evacuation ordered for those under Oroville Dam in Oroville CA. The dam itself is OK but the spillway shredded Friday and now the emergency spillway is failing. The dam is flowing over the top.

    Welcome to California where we can have decade long droughts followed by Biblical flooding.

  5. 5.

    Keith P.

    I’m somehow only now discovering Peter Dinklage’s “Space Pants” skit from SNL. I keep rewatching it, even more than the McCarthy Spicer skits.

  6. 6.

    Lizzy L

    I am watching the news about the Oroville Dam in northern CA. The emergency spillway is crumbling and water is pouring into the Feather River. Residents of Oroville, Marysville, Yuba City, and a cluster of small towns along the river are evacuating. The dam itself appears to be safe but the spillway is damaged and this is very worrisome.

  7. 7.

    Mayim

    Hunkered down for a wee bit of snow and wind ~ Maine will pretty much be closed tomorrow, with blizzard warnings for the mid coast and winter storm warnings for the rest of the state (well, anywhere that any people actually live).

    Books, cats, tea, knitting, intriguing genealogy puzzle, leftover prime rib for sandwiches, ice cream…. I’m set ;-)

    Definitely take the blizzard over a broken dam ~ so hope the worst case doesn’t happen there!

  9. 9.

    laura

    We’re making getaway plan scenarios for this week that include uphill away from the rivers and down hill to family and with or without spouse and weiner dog.
    When the levy breaks, it will be too late.
    But too soon seems too panicy.
    Waitng and worrying. And Grammying.

  11. 11.

    Dog Dawg Damn

    Logged onto Twitter to realize that Trump Trolls hate everyone who lives in any state that didn’t vote for him and we all deserve to die.

    Hope the big one doesn’t hit San Francisco in the next 2-4 years.

  16. 16.

    Dog Dawg Damn

    I’m in the Bear River Watershed, just south of Feather River. This year has been epic, and another monsoon like storm headed here this week.

    Apparently the Dam’s emergency spillway was rated for 250,000 cfs & failed at 12,500 cfs in its first time of use.

  17. 17.

    Lizzy L

    From The Sacramento Bee:

    Oroville Lake depths are decreasing rapidly as officials release a huge amount of water from its main spillway. Lake levels have fallen about one-half a foot in the last two hours and stand at 901.35 feet, about four-tenths of a foot above the level where water flows through the emergency spillway, state figures show. At that pace, water should stop spilling over the emergency spillway within several hours, giving officials a chance to more fully assess erosion. Falling depths do not mean the areas below the dam are safe. The emergency spillway is essentially part of the dam and the concern is that it will fail, something that could happen even if water stops flowing over its top.

  18. 18.

    Farthestnorth

    BAFTAs on BBC America. Much more fun than grammies at least for an ancient one who doesn’t care about music

  20. 20.

    MobiusKlein

    @Dog Dawg Damn:

    Apparently the Dam’s emergency spillway was rated for 250,000 cfs & failed at 12,500 cfs in its first time of use.

    As I say in the software world, if it ain’t tested, it’s broke.

  23. 23.

    ? Martin

    @Lizzy L: There are reports that there is a hole in the emergency spillway already, but I’m having trouble understanding how that’s possible without things going to shit super-quickly.

  24. 24.

    FlyingToaster

    I expect all of the Boston (represent!) contingent has been out shoveling. We’re halfway through the storm.

    The plow-created ice wall at the corner is about 4′ high. We’ve shoveled the steps, plowed the driveway and the sidewalk all the way around, and are awaiting the bombogenesis and the second half of the storm. After which we’ll do it all again. Thank goodness school was called. We let WarriorGirl stay up to 10, like Saturday nights.

    I can finally pour myself a glass of cider and unlax for the night; back up at dawn.

  26. 26.

    Dog Dawg Damn

    Oh, but I bet the guys at the South Yuba River Citizens League are at least paying attention.

    They are lobbying citizens against a new dam on the Bear River which would take away water from the Yuba. (An environmental cause.)

    This event could breathe new life into their efforts. Massive evacuations and loss of property will probably galvanize support in a way concern for fish won’t.

  29. 29.

    Gin & Tonic

    @FlyingToaster: I do not have to shovel (for now) nor get up early, as I am scheduled for an all-day on-line training session tomorrow. It’s almost like going to work but without having to put on pants.

  30. 30.

    Doug R

    @Omnes Omnibus: She must have been part of team that worked on the windoze 8.1 to 10 “upgrade”. I say that in quotes because my machine would ALWAYS get to about 95% and then roll back. Took a hard drive fail and replacement and then got the geek squad to do the upgrade.

  32. 32.

    Suzanne

    I am loving A Tribe Called Quest right now.

    I am hoping that a silver lining from this Republican administration is a newfound sense of purpose and passion from America’s hip-hop and punk musicians. Beyoncé did a great job this year. More, please.

  33. 33.

    ? Martin

    @MobiusKlein: No, I get that. But if there’s a hole near the base of the emergency spillway, the water pressure behind it should cause it to erode extremely quickly and hit a critical point. No, it doesn’t jeopardize the main dam, but if they lost the ability to contain water above the 870 or 880 foot mark, that would be sufficiently bad shit all by itself.

  37. 37.

    MomSense

    @FlyingToaster:

    We currently have whiteout conditions here. Everything is already closed for tomorrow so Immgoing to just stay inside and see what I find in the morning. Given the way the wind is blowing, the drifts in my yard are going to be yuuge.

  43. 43.

    FlyingToaster

    @MomSense: But you’re getting the jackpot this time! The shortest map I see for Maine has you at 20″, and the more localized ones (NECN, WeatherUnderground) show you at 24-30.

    I do NOT miss that part of the 2015 storms. I also will not miss having to forego our Florida vacation because Logan got closed due to 15″ of snow. This time next week I’ll be on the tablet from the hotel :)

  46. 46.

    geg6

    60-79 mph winds here. But as long as the satellite gets a signal, I am enjoying the Grammys. Adele and Beyoncé were awesome. Gaga and Metallica (sans the mic problems for Hetfield) were too. But Bruno and The Time are fucking kicking ass.

  48. 48.

    FlyingToaster

    @Gin & Tonic: Alas, my current gig (“Mom” and “mom-related tech shit at school” and “class parent”) requires me to be physically present. But I don’t have to be there if the building is closed ❄️.

  52. 52.

    Mart

    Looked like they were having a lot of fun with their tribute to Prince. I did not know Mars could play the guitar that well.

  53. 53.

    laura

    @zhena gogolia: thank you! Cautious optimism, we are currently ok, and the weirs are predicted to handle overflow, but this is an unusually wet season and the unpredictable is what to plan for.
    I’m hoping for safe passage to all.

  54. 54.

    Sandia Blanca

    @Keith P.: Space Pants, David S. Pumpkins, and the entire SNL political cast of characters are the only things keeping some of us (sort of) sane in this crazy world.

  55. 55.

    Suzanne

    @geg6: Bruno Mars is awesome, every time I watch him. That guy is so talented.

    That last performance by the Time was fabulous. All of the artists have been really on point tonight. I felt bad for Adele when she got messed up in the George Michael tribute, but she got back on track.

  56. 56.

    FlyingToaster

    @Omnes Omnibus: Now you’re just trying to scare me.

    Please reassure us all that you don’t have googly eyes, and you’re not conspiring to starve any grannies.

  62. 62.

    Suzanne

    @Elizabelle: A Tribe Called Quest with Anderson.Paak was my favorite performance tonight. But most of them have been good. Typically, there’s a few duds. I think the Lady Gaga/Metallica thing was not so good, but Gaga did her best to make it interesting.

  65. 65.

    GregB

    Meanwhile in NH, 3 dead over the weekend in snow mobile into Lake Winnepesaukee mishaps.

    Including a 15 year old kid from NY.

    Ugh.

  66. 66.

    FlyingToaster

    @Omnes Omnibus: Whew.

    I’d happily send you our blizzards, if I were put in charge of the weather.

    Of course, I’d then route them straight into Foggy Bottom, a la “Fifty Degrees Below”. See how that Orange Shitgibbon deals with catastrophic climate change side effects.

  73. 73.

    The Thin Black Duke

    Happily, my boss called me earlier today to tell me not to come in tomorrow. Yahoo! But I still have to shovel, unfortunately. Ugh.

  75. 75.

    Brachiator

    Flipping the dial on broadcast TV. Johnny Carson from 1893 with Bette Davis and Richard Pryor. Davis was a charming, charismatic hoot. Pryor was somewhat subdued, but fun.

    Grammy awards show. Good Prince tribute. No, great Prince tribute. Tribute to other performers who passed very moving.

  76. 76.

    FlyingToaster

    @MomSense: The low is going to cross us around midnight, get into the Gulf of Maine and stop. Whereupon the spin begins and from 4-8 we get another dump of snow, then it will move slowly NNE towards Nova Scotia, dumping another foot or two of snow on coastal Maine. So we’ll be done 10-ish, and you’ll be done sometime after dark tomorrow.

    It’s switched to rain at Logan, and the ice-line is right over BU/Cambridgeport/Area4. Heh.

  87. 87.

    efgoldman

    @GregB:

    Meanwhile in NH, 3 dead over the weekend in snow mobile into Lake Winnepesaukee mishaps.

    I didn’t see those stories.
    Ice too thin for the weight, or did they just lose the trail and end up in the water?

  88. 88.

    geg6

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    Lots of good and interesting stuff this year and I don’t know how you think Beyoncé and Adele and a great tribute to Prince are a bunch of pop crap. Tribe Called Quest was pretty damn awesome, too. You are missing a lot of great stuff. Your loss.

  92. 92.

    efgoldman

    @geg6:

    If you love and appreciate music, you watch it.

    I love and appreciate music; it was my major.
    They stopped even giving out the classical awards as part of the show years ago. They just announce them in a press release.

    Fuckem.

  101. 101.

    FlyingToaster

    @MomSense: You may not get it. We’re just far enough inland that it’s all snow. Some of it wet, disgusting snow, but snow instead of goop.

  102. 102.

    khead

    @Brachiator:

    Caught the Tonight Show from 01/17/74 last month. An even more subdued Pryor – he was really tame – William Peter Blatty, Fernando Lamas, and a lot of polyester. My wife didn’t know Fernando Lamas was actually a real person before that night.

    Also, The Time kicked ass tonight.

  107. 107.

    Yarrow

    @Omnes Omnibus: People watch awards shows. And there are so many of them. The Grammys, The American Music Awards, The Country Music Awards, The Billboard Music Awards. I’m sure I’m missing a whole bunch of them. And then there are the movie and TV show awards shows…

  109. 109.

    efgoldman

    @geg6:

    Apparently you don’t love and appreciate all types of music.

    I KNOW every type of music. I am also old enough to know what I like, what’s important TO ME, and not to give a flying fuck what some random blog commenter thinks I SHOULD like and pay attention to.

  110. 110.

    Brachiator

    @efgoldman:

    They stopped even giving out the classical awards as part of the show years ago. They just announce them in a press release.

    Jazz and classical music are largely irrelevant to American culture. Popular culture is king.

    Same with poetry and the novel. Newspapers and magazines would have essays asking if a new work might be the Great American Novel. Now the very notion is a quaint relic of an earlier age.

  111. 111.

    Quinerly

    1400 miles under my belt and Poco’s collar on the great American 6 week road trip. In Abiquiu,NM in the sweet little Abiquiu Inn…stuffed on trout, polenta, and a half price slice of prickly pear cheesecake. My third stay here since 2011…this time a Living Social coupon…room has a cute little kiva fireplace and a backdoor patio area. Poco, the ex city street dog, spent a couple of hours watching the cows just a few yards away. He sez, “Mom, best vacation ever!”

  112. 112.

    geg6

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    Being a music snob just shows a lack of joy in your life. I feel sorry for people who can’t find joy in all kinds of music.

    Well, except for country music. Country music mostly sucks. At least, most modern country music does. Not all, but 90% of it does.

  113. 113.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @geg6: I was making a call to that person. Grammys don’t matter. The music matters.

    @Yarrow: I am aware. But I am going full-on hipster, alternative music snob and saying that the Grammys suck.

  114. 114.

    Brachiator

    @MomSense:

    I thought for sure Beyoncé would win for Lemonade. I think Adele did too.

    Lemonade was by far the better work. It was too black for the Grammy voters.

  116. 116.

    Brachiator

    @khead:

    My wife didn’t know Fernando Lamas was actually a real person before that night.

    I hope that Fernando looked marvelous.

  117. 117.

    smike

    As a former musician (I’m just that old), I found the parts of the show I watched unsatisfying. I saw Lady G (rather see her with someone else doing something with less screaming), then a lame rap song (to me), then a crappy country song. I wandered off and missed the good parts, I guess. Bruno Mars is so very talented and always seems to pull off whatever genre he is working with.

  119. 119.

    Brachiator

    @Suzanne:

    But Beyoncé scared a lot of white people this year.

    True. She had a good country song and made some people have a nervous breakdown.

  120. 120.

    geg6

    @efgoldman:

    I feel sorry for you. That’s a very sad statement, AFAIC. I enjoy all kinds of music and appreciate all sorts of musicianship. You’re free to feel the way you do, but I wouldn’t want to be that way. You may “know” music, but you don’t feel it. That’s sad to me. But since I apparently am more upset about your missing so much joy than you are, carry on, dude.

  121. 121.

    Suzanne

    Did y’all see Joy Villa wearing a dress that said “MAGA” and “Trump”?

    Her slide into irrelevance begins….now.

  122. 122.

    AnotherBruce

    Has anybody outside of this top 10,000 blog noticed how strident and reasonable Daily Kos has lately been?

  123. 123.

    The Thin Black Duke

    I’m 62 years old and I’m very fortunate that even now whenever I hear a new song for the first time and I love it, it still feels exhilarating. It’s a gift.That’s why I try to keep my mind and my ears open.

  124. 124.

    Brachiator

    @smike:

    I found the parts of the show I watched unsatisfying.

    These were the bits that I saw as well and totally agree with you. Bruno Mars was good, but there is little point to the Grammy awards if the musical performances are mediocre.

  126. 126.

    wenchacha

    I skipped the Grammys; sounds as if I might have enjoyed it. I decided to escape to 1976, aboard the “Silver Streak”. It was fun: Gene Wilder, Richard Pryor, Scatman Crothers, Jill Clayburgh, Patrick McGoohan, Ray Walston are all in it, and they are all now gone. Ned Beatty is still around. It was such a different time.

  127. 127.

    CaseyL

    East Coast getting socked by snow, California flooding… I started to think “weird weather,” then remembered the US is a whole continent wide and one-third of a continent long, so of course there will be great variation among the regions.

    And that made me think about the US as a political artifact. A continent-spanning country with intense regional differences that somehow held together for a long time, with “only” one outright civil war in its history, which ended with the Union intact. Which made me wonder if what we’re seeing is another shuffle towards dissolution, torn apart by our internal contradictions.

    I blame Thomas Jefferson and the Louisiana Purchase.

    Now, there’s an alt.history to think about! Napoleon needed money, a LOT of money, to finance his military adventures; so he sold us the Louisiana Territory.

    What if Jefferson had said no?

    Would Napoleon still have been able to conquer most of Europe?

    If not, what impact would that have had on European history, veering between wars and internationally-mandated peace treaties until the butchery got so bad they created the European Union? Would that have still happened without the Napoleonic Wars?

    Would the US have remained a relatively small string of states along the Eastern seaboard? Would (white) people have gone pioneering out West anyway? Would Andrew Jackson have declared war on the indigenous tribes anyway? (No Louisiana Purchase means no Lewis and Clark expedition, and therefore no survey of the rest of the continent… he’d be going to war pretty blind, I think; so maybe not.)

    Fun stuff to think about.

  129. 129.

    FlyingToaster

    @Yutsano: The problem is that ZEGS respresents a constituency. Which is in Wisconsin. And it’s in no way Omnes’ fault. Just, coincidences can be scary.

  133. 133.

    brendancalling

    I am battling one of my 24-48 hour depressions. It’s fucking awful. They only show up once in awhile, so there’s no point in taking medications, but when they hit, it’s the fucking worst. Hot/colds, no energy, can’t think, muscle aches. Yeah, that sounds like the flu, but it’s just my brain and my limbic system taking some time off. I need a joint like nobody’s fuckin’ business.

    It’ll be gone by tomorrow. I’m gonna try to finish “Doctor Who: Frontier in Space/Planet of the Daleks”.

    Also, apologized to a woman whose feelings i really hurt 4 years ago. She won’t accept it or respond (I don’t expect her to anyway) but it’s been on the list of things I need to do for a long time, and I did it.

  136. 136.

    efgoldman

    @geg6:

    You may “know” music, but you don’t feel it. That’s sad to me

    Keep digging that hole.
    You don’t know fuck all.
    How many orchestras have you conducted? How much music have you written? How many concerts have you played in? How many students have you taught?
    You can stick a Grammy statue up your ass, sideways.

  143. 143.

    Yutsano

    @CaseyL: Oh snap. A guy on YouTube does some interesting alternate history videos that get really interesting. I’m gonna throw this at him as an idea!

    For example: he did one on what if the Schlieffen Plan worked? It was fascinating.

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    I’ve been 3d violin and 1st viola so many times.

    All the badges eh?

  144. 144.

    Yarrow

    @brendancalling: Modern country music as it stands now is basically white, redneck music with pedal steel guitar. Extra points for bro-ness. Even fifteen years ago it wasn’t as bad. The baseball cap is the new cowboy hat. It’s boring and predictable.

  145. 145.

    brendancalling

    @MomSense, @trollhattan: i’m ok. i know what it is, it makes it easier to deal with.

    Also, my wonderful cat is standing on my shoulders like a parrot, so that’s pretty awesomely helpful.

    But yeah, I’m alright. Temporarily down in the dumps for no reason at all, but alright.

  147. 147.

    Yarrow

    @brendancalling: That sucks. It does sound like your body and brain’s way of telling you they need a break. Do what you have to do to take care of yourself. Reach out if you need help. And hang in there.

  149. 149.

    trollhattan

    @brendancalling:
    Saw Lucinda Williams two weeks ago and she just killed. Don’t exactly know where she slots in WRT categories but no matter, hellofa songwriter and performer.

    Lucky enough to see Sharon and the Dap Kings last spring. Think everyone in the theater knew it was her coda, so joy and sadness in equal measure. What a treasure.

  150. 150.

    brendancalling

    @Yarrow: you’re **lucky** if there’s a steel. Most modern country is total garbage. I say this as a connoiseur, as someone who has played bluegrass, old time, and country for nearly 20 years.

    My least favorite modern country thing is the synthesized banjo sounds. Worst sound ever.

  153. 153.

    brendancalling

    @trollhattan: ever since I moved to Nashville, my music diet has become so rich if it was food I’d have a heart attack.

    Every Sunday I get to see Earl Scruggs’ grandson play classic honky tonk FOR FREE. And that’s just the appetizer.

  155. 155.

    Suzanne

    @brendancalling: I think my least favorite modern country thing is the bro-country sub-genre. Like, just stop. When they had Luke Bryan singing the national anthem at the Super Bowl, I was like NOOOOOOOOO.

  157. 157.

    Brachiator

    @Suzanne:

    Adele is how a lot of white people enjoy blues music. Le sigh.

    A bit unfair to Adele.

    However, if it weren’t for white audiences, blues would be as dead as jazz. Younger audiences and most black people under age 40 find the blues too depressing.

  161. 161.

    ? Martin

    The situation in Oroville is a little better. Water flow over the top of the emergency spillway is much reduced and should go to zero shortly. They’ve set up a staging area to start airlifting loads of boulders to the eroded area. Looks like they’ll be working all night on that.

    There’s still some risk as the ground is saturated and they don’t know how weak the area beneath the spillway is. Water levels would need to get below 870 for that risk to really end (it’s at 900 and dropping a foot every 3 hours).

    Additionally, more rains are coming and it’s unclear how low they’ll be able to get the lake and how well they’ll be able to deal with the new inflow. The regular spillway is currently maxed out at 100K CFS. At the worst point last week, inflow to the lake was double that amount so they need to build as much surplus capacity as they can.

    I doubt they’ll expand the evacuation order from here. The flow into the river is unlikely to drop from this level for at least a week so anyone affected by downriver flooding will likely still be affected for a while. It’s possible they’ll leave the evacuation orders around Oroville in place or to lift it temporarily and schedule it to resume Wed night.

  162. 162.

    NobodySpecial

    Evidently, hipster is now code for ‘sounds like my grandpa bitching when Buddy Holly recorded with drums’ Who knew.

    FWIW, I wish we got off the producer-centric music nowadays, but whaddya gonna do.

  163. 163.

    trollhattan

    Oroville Lake level has inched below spillway level (a whopping 0.3 feet) so perhaps the imminent threat has eased a little? Supposed to be another press conference. Fingers ‘n toes crossed.

  164. 164.

    JordanRules

    Good for hip hop getting back to its political roots! Leading the way. Enjoyed a bunch of the performances tonight. And I love a host who loves the music the way James Corden does.

  165. 165.

    ? Martin

    I’m going to back up efgoldman here. I love music, but I despise music award shows. I love the performances and hate every other thing about them, so I wait until the next day, see what performances are worth watching and catch them later.

  166. 166.

    Suzanne

    @Brachiator: I think Adele is very talented. A great performer and songwriter. I bought her album. I think she is just….safe. That’s fine. There’s room in art for someone to be excellent, even if they aren’t groundbreaking. I just find it sad when white artists perform in a tradition that started with a marginalized group and then get more popular than a member of that marginalized group, because white people find it more comfortable to consume said art from a person who looks like them.

  167. 167.

    James Powell

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    But I am going full-on hipster, alternative music snob and saying that the Grammys suck.

    Disagree. I am going full-on insufferably hip music snob and saying that the Grammys blow. Always have.

  168. 168.

    CaseyL

    @Yutsano: The further back you go, the bigger the vector of difference to “now.” If the Louisiana Purchase had never happened, you could almost pick any alt.history fantasy and make a good case for it: No Industrial Revolution; slavery ends in the US when Texas does not join the Union (because no war with Mexico ending with Texas annexation; and without the Purchase half the slave states cease to exist); thriving Native American confederations; Europe still going to war with itself every 20-30 years but no WWI or WWII… so maybe no mass colonization of Africa, Asia and India, either.

    I’d be interested to hear that guy’s work – what’s his YouTube channel?

  169. 169.

    Brachiator

    OT, for the love of Trump:

    President Trump’s official inauguration portrait offered by the Library of Congress had a glaring typo on it, social media users pointed out Sunday evening.

    The print of Trump, which was sold on the Library of Congress’s website, includes a quote from the president — but misspells “too” as “to.”

    “No dream is too big, no challenge is to great. Nothing we want for the future is beyond our reach,” the quote reads on the poster.

    The page selling the print was removed Sunday evening at some point between 9:30 and 10:00 p.m.

  170. 170.

    brendancalling

    @Suzanne: it’s the worst. Just fucking awful. I’d rather have my kidneys removed, while conscious, with a dirty spork.

    if it was up to me, Florida Georgia Line, Zac Brown, Luke Bryan, Jason Aldean, and the rest of bro-country would be thrown into the Lake of Fire by Merle Haggard and the Louvin Brothers.

  172. 172.

    SectionH

    @kindness: Just got back home to the tubes. I’m not sure how much updating is in the comments here, but shit looks srsly bad at Oroville as of 45 minutes ago, per LA Times.

    I’ve been paying srs attention to Martin’s and trollhatten’s updates for the last several days. It’s frustratingly hard to find current info.

  173. 173.

    trollhattan

    @SectionH:
    News conference pushed back to 10:00 PST, but word is water level is now below the spillway. 160k folks evacuated, which seems amazing given the short timeline.

  174. 174.

    Brachiator

    @Suzanne:

    I just find it sad when white artists perform in a tradition that started with a marginalized group and then get more popular than a member of that marginalized group, because white people find it more comfortable to consume said art from a person who looks like them.

    This is utter nonsense, especially when you are talking about British artists. It is also condescending to black artists. The only remedy would be an insipid segregation in which white people could attend black concerts, but never be inspired by the music. Or maybe they could buy tickets to concerts, but then stay home and listen only to “their” music.

    And what do we do about the white artists who wrote songs for black singers, or the white session musicians who made a lot of black music sound black?

    And, should ballet and classical music be reserved, as it used to be, for white people?

    There is Australian and French Algerian rap music. Is this permitted?

    I was watching a YouTube clip of Redbone singing the neo soul rocker, Come and get your love. One of the YouTube comments was,

    When I was in jail, another inmate was singing this song.

    This is what America is all about. All the music belongs to you, especially when you are down in a hole.

    And Redbone sounded black to a lot of people. They are a Native American band. Are they appropriating, or part of a larger tradition?

  175. 175.

    CaseyL

    @trollhattan: The engineers, planners, and managers also did amazing work – not only getting word out to evacuate, but (based on the latest news) managing to juggle how much water went where enough to avert, so far, a spillway collapse. Not to mention sending crews out to collect as many rocks as they can lay their hands on, to drop into/reinforce the spillway.

    All agencies from all over California showed up to lend a hand.

    Considering all the second-guessing I’ve seen about how the dam and spillway were managed, I think it would be a good idea to give them kudos for pulling this off (so far).

  176. 176.

    JordanRules

    @Brachiator: Would you agree there was a racist component of music history that mirrored the larger society and meant a lot of economic exploitation of certain artists, especially black artists?

    Cause it would be weird as fuck if that segment of society somehow was unscathed by our history.

  177. 177.

    trollhattan

    @CaseyL:
    Completely agree. A lot of this is “off the playbook” and their ability to improvise has been impressive. Luckily the state and feds have a joint operations center and are accustomed to working closely together. Tomorrow will be interesting, once they truly see the damage.

  178. 178.

    ? Martin

    Agreed. They’ve seriously mobilized up north, and the evacuation seems to have gone off pretty well. Though we should all be pretty well organized for that in the event of earthquake.

    They’re preparing to support the erosion area with boulders, and looks like they’ll be working through the night.

    The best news is that the short-term risk of a failure should diminish steadily from this point. Inflow to the lake has dropped significantly (<20K CFS), which means they'll be able to lower the lake level even faster (100K CFS outflow through the main spillway).

    It's going to be a race against the next storm, though.

  180. 180.

    Mnemosyne

    @JordanRules:

    Would you agree there was a racist component of music history that mirrored the larger society and meant a lot of economic exploitation of certain artists, especially black artists?

    I think what Brachiator is arguing is that it’s weird to blame modern British artists for the exploitation that was done of American artists by American record companies.

    Also that genres tend to change and mutate as they cross borders, which is good. There are a lot of French Muslim rap artists using the form to comment on French society the way Public Enemy used to comment on American society.

  181. 181.

    J R in WV

    @MomSense:

    Adele really wanted to give the trophy to Beyonce right then and there. Couldn’t stop crying. I suspect she’s a little of an introvert to be a rock star, but Jesu does she have the pipes!! And Queen Bey was like a shining star, beautiful, being careful, she had folks beside her most all the time.

    And Bruno Mars, where did he come from? First I saw him was… maybe a halftime show? never heard f him, he was playing drums and singing. And tonight, guitar? Did his best to channel Prince, better than I expected. Wish they had picked Purple Rain, or when Doves Cry, my favorites of his.

    Very surprised by how good the show was, the host was a little silly, but that’s what he does. Some people had flasks, drinking brandy or vodka or something. Think I will have a dram and go to bed.

    G’night all!

    Loving Adele, glad she’s getting lots of love and attention. Hope she and Beyonce can visit and hug on each other. She did make Beyonce cry, just from showing her love for Beyonce and her talent. It was all Adele could to accept that last award! Speechless…

  182. 182.

    JordanRules

    @Mnemosyne: I get that but if you accept the history and sure, aknowledge all the progress that was made its not a leap to suggest we still deal with privilege issues, subconscious stuff, the power deficits from those centuries of exploitation etc…. and “colorblindness” is not an answer here just as it’s not in larger society.

  183. 183.

    NobodySpecial

    I dislike the idea that music can’t be performed by people who look different or have a different lifestyle from the originator. Not too fucking many sharecroppers left to play the blues.

  184. 184.

    Mnemosyne

    @JordanRules:

    Right, but what do you do about it? Do you tell Adele that she has to pick a different genre of music as her career because only African-Americans are allowed to sing soul music? That becomes a form of ghettoization in itself.

    Adele herself seems to recognize and celebrate the enormous debt she owes to African-American blues and soul singers. Is there more she should be doing, or is it disrespectful by definition for her to write and perform that style of music?

  185. 185.

    Suzanne

    @Brachiator: I’m not saying that white people or British people shouldn’t make blues music, or be inspired by it, or whatever. Or that cross-pollination between cultures shouldn’t occur. I’m saying that it would be nice if more white people enjoyed music from a tradition started by black people that was actually created by black artists. How many white people wouldn’t listen to rock until Elvis and the Beatles did it? How many white people thought hip-hop sucked until Eminem broke out? The fact that some white people can only get comfortable with art from a black tradition if the performer is white is really sad, IMO. I feel like Adele benefits from this a bit. Not that she isn’t amazingly talented.

    “No, I’m not the first king of controversy
    I am the worst thing since Elvis Presley
    To do black music so selfishly
    And use it to get myself wealthy”
    —Eminem

  186. 186.

    Mnemosyne

    @Suzanne:

    I’m saying that it would be nice if more white people enjoyed music from a tradition started by black people that was actually created by black artists.

    Of course, this also cuts the other way — there are some music critics who say that gangsta rap pretty much took over the entire hip-hop genre for a while because that was what white suburban males were buying because they liked the stereotype. The distorting effect of white people’s money can be quite odd sometimes.

  187. 187.

    Brachiator

    @JordanRules:

    Would you agree there was a racist component of music history that mirrored the larger society and meant a lot of economic exploitation of certain artists, especially black artists?

    There still IS a racist component of the music industry, but this is not especially relevant to some of the nonsense about appropriation that gets tossed around. And as Mnemosyne notes, this ain’t got squat to do with Adele as a singer, or other British artists. Should the Rolling Stones have been limited to singing English music Hall ditties because that was their “culture?”

  188. 188.

    JordanRules

    @Mnemosyne: I don’t think anyone is suggesting we start a movement around it. Acknowledgement is key. All Suzanne did was point out that perception around race and popular acceptability is still a thing. It’s always pretty clear which artists get it and which don’t. Adele seems to get it. I love her!

    Macklemore will always have tons of respect from me for aknowledging he benefited from privilege as a white rapper and was able to prosper greatly within some of the freedom that granted him.

  189. 189.

    Suzanne

    @NobodySpecial: Strawman argument.

    I think it would be nice if white audiences who want to consume art in a tradition started by black people were actually more supportive of black people. We should be able to recognize talent and not need it to look like us in order to make us comfortable.

  191. 191.

    Mnemosyne

    @Suzanne:

    Also, too, Eminem is an interesting case because he came up through the Black hip-hop world and was discovered and produced by Dr. Dre. He actually paid his dues.

    But white radio stations were willing to play his music but not other hip-hop. Out here in LA, it’s the white alternative stations like KROQ, and that’s where a lot of white people who don’t listen to hip-hop (like me) heard of the guy.

  192. 192.

    Suzanne

    @Brachiator: No one ever said that white people shouldn’t make rock music, or rap music. I said that white culture as a whole should feel better about listening to great music in these traditions that was actually created by black people. Adele is awesome. I hope that her fans are flocking to other blues artists of every color. Beyoncé went and made an incredible album this year that was about her black experience, and it sold less than a quarter of what Adele sold and it scared the shit out of a lot of white people. That sucks.

  193. 193.

    Mnemosyne

    @JordanRules:

    Right, but this whole thing started because Suzanne said she was uncomfortable with Adele. It’s one thing to be uncomfortable with Adele’s American audience and quite another to be uncomfortable with Adele herself.

    I think it’s pretty clear that Adele knows and loves both the artists who came before her and the artists working now, so that’s why it seemed weird to single her out as some kind of cultural exploiter.

  194. 194.

    Suzanne

    @Mnemosyne: Yeah, Eminem was played on alternative stations all over the country that wouldn’t play any other hip-hop artist. That is bullshit. Not that Eminem isn’t a great rapper, but it sure is telling that rock radio wasn’t willing to play any rap music at all until a white dude did it.

  195. 195.

    Mnemosyne

    @Suzanne:

    And if Adele didn’t exist, it would be some other white artist. Because the problem is that white audiences suck, not that white artists perform genres that are predominantly African-American.

    And Adele is actually performing in a specifically British soul tradition that goes back to Dusty Springfield (at a minimum), so she’s performing in a British genre of 40 years standing.

  196. 196.

    Suzanne

    @Mnemosyne: Did I say I was uncomfortable with Adele? I mean, I bought two of her albums and I said that I think she’s very talented. I’m pretty sure I said that I was uncomfortable with the larger cultural context of white people liking black music as long as white people perform it.

  197. 197.

    JordanRules

    @Mnemosyne: I think Suzanne stated again with more detail in subsequent comments what she was saying and I don’t think it’s unfair to Adele to aknowledge this racial dynamic exists as you correctly pointed out with your Eminem follow-ups.

  198. 198.

    efgoldman

    @? Martin:

    I despise music award shows

    The only awards shows I watch are the Kennedy Center Honors, and I’ll click in and out of the Tonys (people we know have appeared on both).
    Now that the era of class and grace is over in DC, I may be leaving the Kennedy Center, too.
    I’m not sure, bit I think the last Oscars i watched was the one where Brando was a no-show. But I could be wrong – I would have been drunk at the time.

  199. 199.

    Mnemosyne

    @Suzanne:

    Yes, but it’s not Eminem’s fault that white alternative stations are fucking racist. They would still be fucking racist if he’d never recorded a single record.

  201. 201.

    Mnemosyne

    @Suzanne:

    This is what you said:

    I think she is just….safe. That’s fine. There’s room in art for someone to be excellent, even if they aren’t groundbreaking.

    That came across as you saying you think Adele is only popular as a soul singer because she’s white. I think that’s how Brachiator took it, too, which is how this whole argument got started.

  202. 202.

    JordanRules

    @Mnemosyne: Nobody said it was Adele or Em’s fault from what I can tell. I think it’s okay to talk about this and not go straight away to some imagined revoked privilege. It reminds us how tricky and uncomfortable this all is, but it’s the only way to deal with it. Cause again, it’s just mirroring larger society.

  203. 203.

    Suzanne

    @Mnemosyne: Sure. I actually respect both Adele and Eminem for being really, really clear about this issue. They know that they make a shit-ton of money due in part to race privilege and have done a lot to throw attention toward other artists who are of equal quality but probably don’t get the awards and money they do.

    Like I said, I’m just uncomfortable that it is freaking 2017 and this is still a fucking problem.

  204. 204.

    NobodySpecial

    I don’t know of any white hip hop fans who don’t also listen heavily to black artists, or blues fans who don’t appreciate contemporary black artists. (It’s telling that Gary Clark Jr. is the standardbearer for modern Hendrix-style blues)

    Radio don’t play it? Who cares, radio died decades ago.

  205. 205.

    Brachiator

    @Suzanne:

    How many white people wouldn’t listen to rock until Elvis and the Beatles did it?

    Who gives a shit? This is about people and their comfort zones.

    But the historical fact is that segregation and racist practices kept some white people away from music that they wanted to listen to. And still white people would come to hear Chuck Berry.

    Also, Buddy Holly wowed them at the Apollo. Elvis was condemned for playing that devil nigra music. And the Beatles gave a big FU to racists by refusing to play to segregated audiences. Jimi Hendrix refused to be constrained by conventional wisdom that said that he could not be a black rocker. Toots and the Maytals sang reggae versions of country songs. A white Jewish woman wrote one of Aretha Franklin’s greatest hits.

    15 year old white kids write YouTube comments about 60s soul music and how much they love it.

    And you know. Pat Boone’s version of Tutti-frutti is about as hip as some white people can ever get. God bless their square, whitebread little hearts.

    You can’t do much about how people come to music. And people, fortunately, will also surprise you. But it is right and fair to try to make the industry be fair to artists.

    ETA. Editor not letting me revise a reference to Toots and the Maytals.

  206. 206.

    Mnemosyne

    @JordanRules:

    I do think the racial dynamic is more complicated with Adele because she’s British and the British have a whole separate tradition of white girls singing soul music. Adele is the first one in quite a while to break big in the US.

  208. 208.

    Suzanne

    @Mnemosyne: I think her whiteness helped her popularity a lot. I think that, if she was black, she’d probably get a fraction of her sales.

    I also was contrasting her with Beyoncé, who made an album that was much more groundbreaking in terms of its content. Adele’s music is “safe” in this way, as she isn’t tackling controversial themes and isn’t trying to call attention to a minority experience. She’s singing about love and loss and all that stuff that we’ve been singing about for a long time.

    As I said, I think Adele is excellent. I just don’t think that she is groundbreaking. I think Beyoncé is the artist who pushed the medium forward the most this year in terms of aesthetic and expression. And I think that her album sold a lot fewer copies and won a lot fewer awards because white people were uncomfortable with that.

  209. 209.

    Mnemosyne

    @Suzanne:

    Like I said, I’m just uncomfortable that it is freaking 2017 and this is still a fucking problem.

    Right, but it’s not Eminem’s or Adele’s problem. It’s our problem. And it kind of bugs me that artists who do their best to acknowledge the problem still get held up as being the problem.

    The artists are not the problem. White audiences are the problem. White radio stations are the problem. The whole series of gatekeepers set up to prevent white people from becoming familiar and comfortable with Black culture and Black people are the problem. Not the one or two artists who manage to straddle both worlds and acknowledge both worlds.

  211. 211.

    Mnemosyne

    @Suzanne:

    As I said, I think Adele is excellent. I just don’t think that she is groundbreaking. I think Beyoncé is the artist who pushed the medium forward the most this year in terms of aesthetic and expression. And I think that her album sold a lot fewer copies and won a lot fewer awards because white people were uncomfortable with that.

    Given her speech tonight, I’m pretty sure Adele agrees with you. Now what?

  214. 214.

    Suzanne

    @Brachiator:

    Who gives a shit?

    I’m sure a lot of black artists who get passed over for recording deals and awards in favor of white artists very much give a shit. Remember OscarsSoWhite?

    @Mnemosyne: Amy Winehouse broke big around the same time Adele first did.

  215. 215.

    lamh36

    Late to the convo but here is a question i had?

    What is the difference between the Gospel vs Christian music categories? Isn’t Gospel music Christian music?

    What’s the diff between Urban Confemporary & R&B Contemporary categories when the artist are all “urban” artists?

    The remnants from the old Grammys split “race” music categories?

  216. 216.

    Mnemosyne

    @JordanRules:

    We are talking about it, but we’re been going around in the same circles for at least 20 years, and probably longer. That’s why I’m saying, “Now what?”

    I think we’ve successfully figured out where the problem lies. Now what do we do to try and fix it?

  219. 219.

    trollhattan

    @Mnemosyne:
    Radio? Shirley, you jest. My kid’s all about Pandora and their build-a-channel algorithm, and her friends seem about the same. They don’t do radio unless stuck in the parents car and it seems don’t even buy music anymore, the iTunes Store gift cards sit unused.

    The industry has melted away, only nobody told them.

  221. 221.

    JordanRules

    @Mnemosyne: Start with support for BLM, affirming black lives radically and globally is a good start I think. I also feel like we’re more inclined to talk about it here being a progressive blog so we probably need to push the conversations out a bit too.

  222. 222.

    lamh36

    @lamh36: also interesting because Beyoncé has only eve won like 2 “non genre” Grammy…the rest are R&B or Urban Contemporary, esp since Beyoncé is more a Pop artist than “R&B” artist

  223. 223.

    Mnemosyne

    @Suzanne:

    Remember OscarsSoWhite?

    That’s the kind of thing I’m talking about: people got pissed and did a Twitter campaign, the movie studios went, Oh, shit, we don’t want the massive Black moviegoing audience to start boycotting our movies, we’d better do something! and they started greenlighting Black movies like Hidden Figures and throwing more work to Ava DuVernay than you’d think one person could handle.

    So what is the music industry pressure tactic similar to OscarsSoWhite that people can get behind?

  225. 225.

    Suzanne

    @Mnemosyne: I don’t know. I don’t tweet. I’m sure that I can express that it sucks that racism exists in the music industry without having figured out how to fix it.

  226. 226.

    Suzanne

    @lamh36: One dude I know calls contemporary Christian music “7/11 music”, as in “you say seven words and repeat them eleven times” (usually over some morose guitar). It’s as accurate a description as any.

  227. 227.

    lamh36

    @Mnemosyne: even if GRAMMYs don’t recognize or Beyoncé and other “urban” artist are what big in POP music.

    someone suggested what if none of those artist or the other artist s of the genre showed up or performed?

    How would that affect it all?

    i mean the Grammys is barely bearable with these performances without them it would be downright boring

  231. 231.

    Brachiator

    @Suzanne:

    .
    I’m sure a lot of black artists who get passed over for recording deals and awards in favor of white artists very much give a shit. Remember OscarsSoWhite?.

    We agree on the music industry. But you are being unfair to artists and listeners, and you disregard and undervalue how a lot of people actually discover music.

    Also, I know a lot of people who jumped on the OscarsSoWhite bandwagon, but somehow could not drag their butts to see any actual black movies. And I have problems with this campaign to the degree that it kicks other people of color to the curb (not always intentionally).

    Also, Amy Winehouse was not doing klezmer music. Why do you give her a pass?

  232. 232.

    Mnemosyne

    @lamh36:
    @Suzanne:

    I will freely admit, I was skeptical that the OscarsSoWhite pressure would actually get any action taken, but it really worked and did a lot of good. In the age of Trump, I’m not sure that sitting back and grumping on the internet gets us very far forward.

    Obviously, we’re not going to solve the problem here, but if the movie industry can make some good steps towards fixing their representation problem, there have got to be some steps the Grammys can take.

    (And, yes, their bizarre award micro-categories are part of the problem. Is there such a thing anymore as a Top 40 pop station that doesn’t primarily play Black artists?)

  234. 234.

    JordanRules

    @Brachiator: She wasn’t giving anyone a pass or not. She wasn’t blaming any artists. Just aknowledging a very real dynamic that makes her and plenty others uncomfortable.

  236. 236.

    Suzanne

    @Brachiator: I’m not giving anyone a pass, because I didn’t blame any of the artists we’re discussing here for anything. Because I’m not shitting on any artists. I’m saying that it sucks that white people AS A GROUP, NOT YOU SPECIFICALLY, seem to really enjoy music invented by black people as long as it’s performed by white people. And then the artists who get the money and fame and recognition of their talent end up being white artists and not the black artists who invented said genre.

    As for your complaint about people not going to see black movies, well, that’s kind of the fucking point.

  240. 240.

    Mnemosyne

    @Suzanne:

    Saying hey, maybe we should try and do something about this instead of making the same complaints every year is being defensive?

    Also, Brachiator isn’t white. He’s South Asian (I think Indian-American, but I can’t remember exactly).

  242. 242.

    Suzanne

    @Mnemosyne: Acting like I insulted Adele or that I said that “white people shouldn’t make black music”, as was essentially asserted above (without any basis in fact) is acting pretty defensive.

    And we complain about a lot of social forces on this blog that we have no ability to correct. That is absolutely in form here. Implying that I have to have a solution in hand for a major social problem before I can make an utterance is ludicrous and yes, defensive. I also have no cure for sexism, Islamophobia, etc etc etc other than privileged people should stop acting like assholes, so I talk about it so maybe someone reading does some self-reflection and maybe stops acting like an asshole.

    I don’t know his race specifically. But he’s not the only one here who came to Adele’s defense, as if I had besmirched her honor by suggesting that she probably benefits from musical white privilege,

  244. 244.

    Mnemosyne

    @Suzanne:

    I am a writer. In the historical novel I’m currently working on, the hero has a mixed-race half-brother. That half-brother will probably be the hero of my next book. Should I not write that book because, as a middle-class white woman, I shouldn’t be appropriating the historical experiences of African-Americans to make a profit for myself when there are probably Black women also trying to sell a novel? Should I only write about white characters so I don’t get accused of cultural appropriation?

    I’m not defensive as a white person. I’m defensive as an artist who gets annoyed when people scold me for wanting to include characters in my books who are people of color because I’m appropriating other cultures if I do that.

  245. 245.

    Suzanne

    @Mnemosyne:

    I’m defensive as an artist who gets annoyed when people scold me for wanting to include characters in my books who are people of color because I’m appropriating other cultures if I do that.

    Did anyone say that you should or shouldn’t?

    FWIW, I think you should probably write your character however you want, but get lots of insight from black writers to make sure your character is fully and accurately realized. I don’t know. I guess it depends on how good a writer you are.

    But cultural appropriation is real and harmful, and while I’m sympathetic that artists in any social position should do what they want to, I think it is worth seeking out and listening to the voices of those in that community for guidance. So it isn’t me who you should be asking. And if a black writer says that maybe you shouldn’t, then maybe it’s a learning opportunity rather than telling you that you can’t do something that you want to do. Sorry that that’s annoying.

  246. 246.

    ? Martin

    @Mnemosyne: 538 did an interesting look at how classic rock varies across the country.

    I found that classic rock is more than just music from a certain era, and that it changes depending on where you live. What plays in New York — a disproportionate amount of Billy Joel, for example — won’t necessarily fly in San Antonio, which prefers Mötley Crüe. Classic rock is heavily influenced by region, and in ways that are unexpected. For example, Los Angeles is playing Pearl Jam, a band most popular in the 1990s, five times more frequently than the rest of the country. Boston is playing the ’70s-era Allman Brothers six times more frequently.

  247. 247.

    ? Martin

    So the ideal plan in Oroville is to get the lake level down to 850′. It’s currently at 899, dropping at about 8′ per day. If everything goes well, and inflow to the lake continues to decline, and they can keep the main spillway going at 100K CFS without completely destroying everything, they might make it before the next big storm comes through. Apparently it’s supposed to be a bit colder than the last one, which would keep more of the precipitation on the ground as snow in the upper elevations which should help.

    The flash flood warning is scheduled to lift at 4PM tomorrow. Unclear what will happen with the evacuation order. If I had to guess, they’ll allow people back home tomorrow afternoon after they’ve had time to get a good look at things, and tell them to pack and be prepared to leave again later in the week when the storm arrives.

  248. 248.

    West of the Rockies (been a while)

    @Suzanne:

    Yeah. Two threads in a row. Curious. Last thread some folks were bothered by the whole “nothing good ever came out of the U.S. South that was produced by white people” thing.

  249. 249.

    Mnemosyne

    @Suzanne:

    And yet it’s my fellow white people who make sure to lecture me about how cultural appropriation is so very bad that I should make sure to only write about white characters so I don’t accidentally do it. Most writers of color I know encourage me to give it a shot and they’ll let me know if I screw it up. It’s a little strange.

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