Hat tip to Iowa Old Lady for the chart.
Welcome back. This week I thought it would be fun to talk about genres – what are the requirements of particular genres and what drew you to the genre you’re most interested in writing. Anyone write across several genres and want to talk about the challenges of changing things up? Especially if you’re crossing lines like playwriting/screenplays vs. novels or fiction vs. non-fiction. Do we have any technical writers?
I thought the chart above would be a fun way to address the varying stages of self-doubt that we face as creatives during the process. How to handle the stumbling blocks, tricks to move past it and not let it bring creativity to a halt. What do you do when self-doubt creeps in?
In the next chat or two, I would love it if someone wanted to write up a bit about self-publishing, self-promotion, small presses, traditional publishing, and the ins and out of each. If we need to split it between two separate chats, that would be great. Hit me up with an email.
Ok, have at it – the above talking points are just to get you started – talk about whatever is on your minds today. Have fun and keep it positive. – TaMara
Hillary Rettig
Hi Everyone – sorry to have been AWOL but looking forward to a fun discussion of genres and the rest.
Since today is also Darwin’s birthday, it seems appropriate to point out that the latest research (by the Royal Society no less!) says Darwin did NOT procrastinate epically on publishing Origin of Species.
schrodingers_cat
How much exposition is necessary when you are writing. How much can you assume the reader knows? Too little exposition and then reader can’t follow what you are saying. Too much and it becomes too pedantic.
West of the Rockies (been a while)
Checking in… hello, Hillary, TaMara.
I pop over to your site for inspiration, Hillary. I love the act of writing–the business of writing, not so much. That’s where I struggle with procrastination.
WereBear
Here’s what I’ve done:
Directed marketing blogging: I do fun things in my area and write it up for potential visitors
non-fiction advice: My cat guru blog — currently revamping the cat advice book that I couldn’t get anyone to even look at because thirty years of rescue experience means nothing to mainstream publishing
Science fiction: Back in the 1980’s, I was writing about religion gone crazy over politics; advanced human communication via computer interfaces, and the rise of witchcraft being used like science. Publishers told me they couldn’t market that kind of thing and then my agent retired.
Mystery/thriller: I had a fascinating thriller about a woman with a bit of a psychic talent and everyone thought it was too out there so I revamped it as science fiction and they said it wasn’t enough science fiction.
I have always loved cross-genre but the market is a lot more welcoming now. Which annoys me no end: Fred Mustard Stewart writes science fiction and gets a bestseller, but Theodore Sturgeon never broke out of that ghetto despite being hugely talented.
WereBear
@schrodingers_cat: The classic solution is to have a character who knows nothing — an intern, a young protege, someone the boss saddled the characters with — and tell them.
Paula
Hello!
Last night I finished the first draft of my second book — 155,000 words in its raw form. I plan to follow the steps I used to complete my first book (Wynne Frost and the Soul of Remorse), so its on to the revision process.
As I contemplate the manuscript and prepare to commence revisions I certainly remember the fits and starts along the way. But I learned from #1 that you can fix anything in revisions, the key is to power through to completion of the story in order to have something to revise.
schrodingers_cat
@WereBear: What about non-fiction or a memoir.
Say I am writing a book about British India. If I write for an Indian audience it would be a much different book than for a Western audience.
WereBear
@schrodingers_cat: Those are all about imparting information. That your job.
Make it interesting with examples or interesting characters or a strong, compelling, voice.
martian
Hi! Looking forward to what others have to say about this, since I think my usual process of procrastinating until anxiety explodes into a last minute marathon of work is super dysfunctional. I’m looking to develop a steadier practice.
As an artist, I’ve noticed that a lot of the people I knew who became successful aren’t the ones I thought the most creative or talented, but they were very good at self motivation and direction. Talent is actually pretty meaningless without expression. I wish I could go back and explain a few things to my younger self about the shelf life of “great potential”.
Hillary Rettig
@West of the Rockies (been a while): Thanks! Disliking the business makes sense and is pretty common. Indie publishing helped me a lot, in terms of not subjecting me to others’ bad choices and whims (all for a lavish 5% royalty rate!) but I recognize that choice isn’t for everyone.
What about the business demotivates you?
Hillary Rettig
@Hillary Rettig: I grew up adoring science fiction – probably too much because I got too invested in my projects and that led to procrastination. I did publish one story in Asimov’s but never followed up. :-(
WereBear
I painfully learned that all writing consists of two modes: drafting, and editing.
We can’t do both at the same time :)
martian
@Paula: Congratulations!! Are you going to mark the occasion with any kind of celebration or tradition? It’s like a new baby. I almost feel like we should throw you a shower.
Josie
I’m writing a novel of historical fiction and having a hard time fitting the historical events in with the events in my fictional characters’ lives and love story. It involves lots of research and putting the puzzle pieces together. Not an impossible task, but hard for this old brain to encompass. I refuse to give up, although I can see that this is definitely a long term project. I’m grateful that this effort is not needed to pay the bills. Does anyone have a recommendation for a book useful for writers of historical fiction?
Hillary Rettig
@WereBear:
>non-fiction advice: My cat guru blog — currently revamping the cat advice book that I couldn’t get anyone to even look at because thirty years of rescue experience means nothing to mainstream publishing
all of your examples kind of incense me – they all sound like such great ideas. but the cat one in particular. Wow that would be a useful book, and it seems to me a prime candidate for indie publishing.
Paula
@martian: Thanks! I guess now’s the time to start a tradition because I do plan to continue the series. Hmmm —
Hillary Rettig
@Paula: Hey congratulations! And this – “you can fix anything in revisions, the key is to power through to completion of the story in order to have something to revise” – is absolutely right! I’m constantly reminding myself (and others), “you don’t have to fix it now.”
EDIT – and I just bought your book. :-)
West of the Rockies (been a while)
@Hillary Rettig:
I’ve groused a bit here before about what I find annoying about traditional publishing (annoyance that transmogrifies into procrastination): “Oh, we editors and agents are sooo busy and we just want to read something that is amazing and utterly original but very comparable to at least two or three other big-selling books. I hate it when my work life is interrupted by new writers wasting my precious time with their queries and manuscripts.”
Robyn Bennis
Ha! That chart is so me. I found that, even when I was writing the second of two contracted books, I still fell into pits of despair about my ability. I had near 100% certainty that what I was writing would be published, and pretty good evidence that I was good enough for prime-time, and yet there I was, back in that long, dark night of the soul again. For some writers, I think that’s just part of the process.
WereBear
@Hillary Rettig: Indie publishing is exactly what I am doing. I got so PO’d about being dissed over my cat expertise I put out a blog to test it in the real world. Which became popular, thus creating a fan base for the book, which I am revamping because I learned so much, especially from my fans, that the book will be even better now :)
That’s the core of DIY publishing: you need to create the marketing tools, and with something like cat advice, I have people beating down the doors to offer me problems to solve, share their heartwarming stories, and tell me how I helped. So it all feeds into each other and self-perpetuates.
I’m now plugged into the network of people who like cats and want to take the best care of them, train them to blend into their family, and love them extravagantly; and that’s research, marketing, and meeting the needs of customers: all in one.
Which is my advice to writers wishing to take the Indie route: yes, you have to wear all the hats, but you also get all the benefits. I have no problem at all taking on sensible partners: but the publishing industry has kept going downhill my whole adult life.
I grew up hearing stories about editors to discover talent and nurture their authors and become true mentors in the craft. Unfortunately, my Real World experience was publishing firing all their copy editors and demanding to know how famous I already am before they will read my work.
Paula
@WereBear:
Yep. But learning that is good because it allows you to not get overly bogged down in polishing the text during the draft process. Get the rough story fleshed out, beginning, middle, end. Then you can go in and polish the writing!
Although, for me, revisions take a couple of steps before I really get down to the “writing”. Fixing plot-holes, removing the junk words (cutting the manuscript down), finalizing names, moving scenes around, cleaning up timelines (could this really have happened 2 hours after that other thing?), writing bridge scenes, finalizing research as needed — THEN the polishing of the text starts in earnest!
Hillary Rettig
@martian: did you see previous posts on using a timer and randomizing devices to defuse perfectionism? Adapted from this.
West of the Rockies (been a while)
@Josie:
I can’t think of any books on the subject, but you might try to find interviews with writers of historical fiction whose work you admire.
Hillary Rettig
@Josie: not a book but wondered if you have ever taken a class on this or joined a group for historical writers? it must be a common problem and other writers might have some good advice.
WereBear
@schrodingers_cat: Yes. For an Indian audience you would try not telling them things they already know, while an American audience would be totally different; such things are what they are reading the book, for.
But then, the Indian audience would be equally curious about American information :)
Just write the book.
Everything else gets figured out later. Honest! Because until you have written the book, you don’t know what is going on. It only exists in your head and you cannot see it clearly.
Paula
@Hillary Rettig: You just bought my book? Thanks!!!!!!! No words are sweeter to a writer! I really hope you enjoy it!
martian
@Paula: Oh, you totally should! And now I’m thinking that would be a good thing to incorporate into my process of working, too. A way to mark meaningful milestones is something that definitely appeals to my sense of rhythm and ceremony.
Hillary Rettig
@WereBear: exactly. my feelings exactly. I’d rather have good problems to solve than stupid ones involving screw ups and a lack of commitment from my so-called business “partner.”
Hillary Rettig
@Paula: the title piqued my interest and got me to your Amazon page. the description made the sale. so good titling and copywriting you. :-)
Iowa Old Lady
@schrodingers_cat: Are you trying to write for both those audiences? Could you section off historical material that one of your audiences needs? That is, use headings that let a reader know when to skip if they can?
I think it’s better to err on the side of including an explanation.
Paula
@WereBear:
Yes! With respect to research, after you have the events reasonably fleshed out and in order you can spot areas where more research is needed. You might want to separate things in your mind a bit — read all kinds of stuff about the era in an effort to give you a contextual knowledge — separately work out your events. If you’ve learned about the period in a general way you will have an easier time honing in later on the specifics you really need to know.
Iowa Old Lady
@Josie: You probably have historical fic that you like sitting on your shelves. Consider going through all or part of three of them, noticing how that writer works the historical material in with the personal character material.
I love historical fiction.
Hillary Rettig
@West of the Rockies (been a while): don’t forget the “oh, and if we do condescend to publish your book we’re doing you a huge favor and don’t pester us too much”
schrodingers_cat
@Iowa Old Lady: I actually don’t know which audience I am writing for. That’s what I wondering too, does one need to decide the audience before writing? I want everyone to read it.
PaulWartenberg
Hello.
Of the genres I’ve written – science fiction, superhero, mystery thriller, horror – one thing I attempt across the lines is to write with a sense of humor. Douglas Adams is a huge influence on me in that regard.
Writing in Science Fiction requires working more with Sociology – the human condition – than in actual Science. You *do* have to ground your works with technology that is believable, but you don’t have to have your story revolve around the tech: it revolves around the people affected by it.
Horror stories have to carry with them the risk of death, of facing a fear, of a knowing dread that the universe knows you exist and wants you gone.
Mystery thrillers revolve around a question and a solution: the Why? or Who? or How? The mystery thriller story I wrote for a Mardi Gras Murder anthology revolved around “How will she get away with murder?”
Superhero tales are morality tales: the struggle of good vs. evil and the ability to judge which is which. Of the value of sacrifice over selfishness. Also the struggle of working out zippers on those damn cosplay uniforms.
PaulWartenberg
I’ve done a bit of self-publishing and small press, if you need me to email you.
Paula
@Hillary Rettig: Thank you very much!
With respect to the topics of today’s chat, I ended up deciding my closest genre was “Magical Realism” as my book really doesn’t fit comfortably in any major genre: Fantasy, Sci-Fi, Mystery, Romance, etc. And that being the case, I decided to go Indie because I thought the odds of an Agent taking it on were extremely low. I did do a round of queries/submissions while I was researching self-publishing and got a few “this sounds interesting but not for us” responses, and decided to go for it on my own.
I am still very much learning about Indie publishing — and wanted to get another book done as one of the bedrock rules I keep hearing is: the best way to sell your book is to write another one. If people like one of your books they’ll buy your others, etc.
Iowa Old Lady
@Josie: Also, it just occurred to me that historical fic writers share a problem with SFF writers: they have to explain a world that’s unfamiliar to the reader but familiar to the character. They can’t just spill the info out in a dump because that’s boring and inartful, so it needs to get worked in (1) in pieces and (2) when needed.
Hillary Rettig
@WereBear: fyi https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/10/nyregion/nyc-city-hall-cat.html
PaulWartenberg
I have a science fiction short story I may need beta readers on. Email me at p dot warten AT gmail dot com and tell em Witty Sent Ya.
martian
@Hillary Rettig: Thank you for pointing me to that. The need to defuse perfectionism is the crux of my problem. I’m going to commit to trying dice or a timer. I need to try something different just because it’s different without over intellectualizing it.
West of the Rockies (been a while)
@WereBear:
To piggyback a bit here, I’d suggest reading some travel writing, Schrodinger…
I read recently a travel book on Petra, a spot I hope to see before ISIL manages to find and destroy it. The writer decided who his audience was and wrote for that audience. I’m sure you know this really.
Consider your audience’s knowledge and passion for the subject. The more passionate they are, the more you can probably writer-geek out on description.
They’re knowledgeable but not passionate, include less description.
I’m reminded of that old saying, I can’t define obscenity, but I know it when I see it.
Paula
@martian:
I shall consult with my husband and come up with a way to celebrate!
WereBear
@Hillary Rettig: Love it! Thank you.
@martian: Perfectionism was my problem, too. I think all artists have a touch of it.
Realizing that the book in my head was perfect because it didn’t really exist helped me, too :) It’s like fantasizing about a perfect lover… they aren’t real, so of course they can be perfect!
Iowa Old Lady
@schrodingers_cat: From what I see, agents and editors say you need to define your audience. Sometimes though, I think a writer makes their audience. The book defines a readership in a way that isn’t obvious ahead of time.
schrodingers_cat
@West of the Rockies (been a while): My book started as my own journey, then it morphed into my family’s journey and now I have written a lot about their and my ancestral home, Mumbai, Bambai, Bombay as it is known. I have looked at the various books written on this topic by Indian American writers and I feel like they are missing out on what makes the city special, the focus is too much on the film industry and mafiosi and not the average Mumbaikar who makes the city hum.
Hillary Rettig
@Paula: I think it’s true that one of the keys to success as an indie writer is to write a lot of books, covering a lot of niches, because you get cross sales. Unfortunately I’m a slow (though mostly steady) writer, and I’m sure that’s been to the detriment of my career.
But (thanks for bringing back the topic of genre) I think genre is a tricky subject, especially for relatively new or unpublished authors. Worry too much about it and you might compromise your work in the process of making it more “salable.” I think it’s probably a better course for a writer to write what they’re passionate about in the way they’re passionate to write about it. Then see if, later, it can fit into a genre for marketing purposes.
Hillary Rettig
btw, anyone who wants their prejudices against traditional publishing (not to mention, the MFA industrial complex) confirmed should check out the memoir Mentor by Thomas Grimes. you’ll see a good guy and obviously good writer totally screwed over by the people who were supposedly supporting him. (NSF your blood pressure)
Paula
Re: research for historical fiction.
After the horrible election I had to pull back from news and get my head together. One thing I did (trying to crawl back into the womb) was re-read some of my old favorite books. My Mom died last year and over the holidays my sister and I went through the boxes of her books we’d packed up from her condo and I ended up with her collection of Georgette Heyers, all of which I’d read years ago.
I re-read them.
As I did so I began mentally putting them in lists: top favorites, pretty-goods, didn’t like all that well, etc. One of the “didn’t like all that well” was Regency Buck. It was her first real regency and it is stuffed with research. Reading it as a now-writer, I could tell how she’d just swallowed all kinds of information about the era and wanted to share it. There were a bunch of scenes I just skimmed over because I really don’t want to read about cock-fights or pugilism in 1820 or whatever.
As she went on to more regencies her use of historical information becomes much more artful and subtle and enjoyable.
Have you all noticed you can no longer read books without noticing the “craft” underlying them?
Hillary Rettig
@WereBear: a lot of people are constantly comparing themselves against some Platonic ideal of who they think they’re supposed to be – whether it’s a writer, someone in a different field, good / dutiful spouse or child / etc. it’s not helpful.
Josie
@Iowa Old Lady: Thanks. I went back and read Gone With the Wind and some westerns that I used to love, and that has helped. The idea of giving information in bits and pieces instead of a dump is a good one. I’m going to start working with that. I have some scenes showing the interaction of the two main characters, and I can flesh them out with the historical details. I also need to work in some climate and geographical stuff (per my son) to get the reader into the feel of things. It is strange. The characters are so alive in my head that feel as though they are real people.
Hillary Rettig
I’m going to have to leave the thread, but I’ll check in later, or anyone who wants a specific followup can email me. Great conversation everyone – thanks!
Paula
@Hillary Rettig:
Yes. I guess it’s the perennial question, though: do you try to write for a definable audience, or do you write what you want and hope to find an audience?
I chose to write what I wanted because I couldn’t motivate myself to do anything else. I’d tried that over the years and always stalled out. But now the option to go Indie exists. It puts the marketing burden on the writer, but then, I keep reading Traditional Publishers dump most of the marketing on the writer nowadays as well. And so we go…
West of the Rockies (been a while)
@schrodingers_cat:
I have repeatedly heard people complain about or riff on the subject of call centers in Mumbai. In other words (from the perspective of these riffing bigots), people with funny voices taking away our jobs.
You want people to learn about the place and people beyond the ludicrous stereotype. Establish the vibrancy and passion of the people, their challenges and virtues.
I’ve found that a central relateable human story can create lots of readers.
Paula
@Iowa Old Lady:
Yes.
Paula
@Hillary Rettig: Yes, comparing yourselves to others on any metric is usually counter-productive. We all have our own journeys.
schrodingers_cat
@West of the Rockies (been a while): Actually, I was thinking about books like Suketu Mehta’s Maximum City, and movies like Slumdog.
Iowa Old Lady
@Paula: Writing has ruined me as a reader. I used to blame myself for impatience or inattention, for instance. Now I see where the writing was weak.
West of the Rockies (been a while)
I know some of you blog. I’m hoping to launch my own blog/forum soon. Anyone have a good host site you’d recommend?
Snarkworth, short-fingered Bulgarian
@Josie: Have you looked at Absolute Write (absolutewrite.com)? It’s a huge and somewhat unwieldy site, but it has everything, including a forum on historical fiction.
As for moi, I’m kind of a triathlete of writing (although I’ve never medaled in anything). Journalism, seven non-fiction self-help books, poetry, and now the forthcoming mystery.
What I love about the mystery genre is that it requires a solution to the puzzle that is possible, if not necessarily plausible. Vampires? Nope. A villain in a vampire costume? Sure!
lollipopguild
It was the best of times, it was the worst of times.
WereBear
Yes. And my tolerance for bad fiction has dwindled to nothing :)
Paula
@Iowa Old Lady:
Its funny — in my book I have a couple of chapters wherein the characters participate in a Poverty Simulation Exercise. (I had gone through one in order to be able to portray the exercise.) and it is the part of the novel several people either most-liked or least-liked. I had some doubts about it and would probably cut some bits now, but then some people just rave about it. So it’s hard to fully know what’s what sometimes. There are days I’m just in the mood for long passages about whatever and sometimes I’m not.
But I do read (and re-read) novels — especially — differently now. I note where the author decided not to write a scene, for instance. I’ve had those moments when I just am not interested in describing something and then realize I don’t necessarily have to — I can just have someone say it happened, or whatever.
schrodingers_cat
@West of the Rockies (been a while): WordPress.com, they have templates you can use.
WereBear
@West of the Rockies (been a while): I now use a professional host, Web Air. But my bandwidth demands it; my more reasonably-priced hosting company started inhibiting my growth.
It’s happened before; perfectly good hosting companies can deteriorate. Dream Host is a good mid-level choice; that’s where I went when my free blog (Blogspot) started getting in my way. And then Dream Host started getting in my way :)
But there’s nothing wrong with starting with a free WordPress or Blogspot blog: they can hold our hand while we get going, and they don’t cost anything. The problem, down the road, is that you don’t own the place where the content lives; years of your life could vanish with some kind of hostile complaint, and good luck getting it back.
Owning our own domain, (for like, $12 a year and getting email with our domain name) and pointing it to our free blog, can be a good compromise as we get started.
Martha
@Iowa Old Lady: I completely agree with this statement. I’m writing a historical fiction novel set in Northern California in the late 19th century. I grew up there and took CA history, but cannot assume my readers know anything! So I’m working at integrating facts in logical sections, not beating the reader over the head with a history lesson up front…
Paula
@West of the Rockies (been a while): RE: blogs, I build WordPress sites as my day job. WordPress offers free sites with free hosting at WordPress.com — you have to use their name in the url though: http://www.wordpress/yourblog.com versus (counter-intuitively) their paid blogs which are done through wordpress.org OR via a host like Bluehost.
I do the “paid” stuff.
Websites and blogs are complex little beasts. The more “user-friendly” the front end, the more rigid it will be, ie. you can’t easily customize. BUT! there are tons of books and tutorials about WordPress available and if you have the interest and some time, you can launch a blog or Author Site.
West of the Rockies (been a while)
@Snarkworth, short-fingered Bulgarian:
Oh, ugh… yes, that forum (AbsoluteWrite) is very ungainly looking. I’ll check it out a bit, but it sure lacks curb appeal.
WereBear
@West of the Rockies (been a while): Literature and Latte also has a writer’s forum I like a lot.
West of the Rockies (been a while)
@Paula:
Thanks, Paula. I’m going with WP.org — or is it FUWP.org? ;)
I’ve read and reread Tris Hussey’s book on the subject several times.
Josie
@Snarkworth, short-fingered Bulgarian: Thanks for the tip. I will check it out.
Paula
@WereBear:
RE: WordPress: they have an “export database” option in “TOOLS” that allows you to very easily export and save your content as an xml file and I encourage people to do an export periodically (at least, the paid versions do. Not sure about the free version but I suspect its there.) WordPress does get targeted by hackers because its so popular.
Just FYI: WordPress separates your blog’s content from it’s appearance — the appearance is handled via the Theme. So as long as you have a copy of the database content you can re-import it into your site, using a clean copy of your theme (if you’ve been hacked), or a new theme.
Paula
@West of the Rockies (been a while): Not familiar with Tris Hussey’s book, but best of luck!
West of the Rockies (been a while)
@WereBear:
You don’t own the material on a WP site? Is that the WP.com or .org site?
Paula
@West of the Rockies (been a while):
You “own” your content whether .com or .org. I think WereBear was talking about the fact that the content can be lost through a hack. That’s why I mentioned the importance of having a back-up copy of your content, which is easy to do.
West of the Rockies (been a while)
@Paula:
Ah, thanks for the clarification!
Snarkworth, short-fingered Bulgarian
@Josie: When you get there, scroll past the first clump of ads and click on “Forum”. Then scroll down the various forums to “Writing Genre.” It’s in there.
WereBear
@Paula: Thanks, I understand this works better NOW than it used to :)
Another factor people should understand is how search engines crawl your site; if you have a popular blog post, moving it somewhere else destroys that.
WereBear
@Paula: Yes, thank you, that’s what I meant.
I also use Sucuri to avoid hacking; and we need to keep our software up to date; and the hosting company keeping theirs up to date, is all part of keeping that data safe.
Paula
@WereBear:
Although you can do something called a 301-redirect to point search engines to where the post has been moved-to. If you don’t, yes, you will lose whatever “search engine equity” you’ve built-up over time if you move your site.
With that in mind, if you are in this writing game for the long-haul it can be worth it to buy your domain and set up a blog/Author site on your own host from the beginning, versus using the free options that you may outgrow.
Paula
@WereBear:
Good!
WereBear
@Paula: I agree; every writer needs a CaptainBeefheart.com, so to speak. We can start with a setup that costs about $100 a year; and if we get popular, we get popular!
WereBear
I am currently planning a cozy mystery series set in the somewhat recent past; so I am sure I have plenty to learn :)
Paula
@WereBear:
Yes!
Paula
It’s been fun everyone! Have to go — good luck to everyone on your projects and see ya next time!
Marina
Despite all my online foraging, I can’t seem to understand the difference between upmarket commercial women’s fiction and literary women’s fiction; I think maybe option 1 is being billed as potentially more entertaining?
Also, is anything you write women’s fiction if it has a female protagonist? In which case, why isn’t there men’s fiction for male protagonists? Enquiring minds, etc.
Does anybody have any pointers on organizing a query letter? I’ve researched to hell and back; a lot of the directives contradict each other. Do you start by explaining why you chose to query a specific agent? Or do you jump right in with your query, and show you’ve done your homework on the agent at the end? I’m leaning toward the former, but wavering…
Does anybody else get a euphoric high while writing? It’s like a drug–I feel brilliant, gifted, creative, by god I’m actually good at this–which are things I generally don’t experience in real life. Writing is time out of real life, where the horizon stretches for miles, hope springs, a game of Make Your Own Reality. I don’t even want to query, because this fun balloon’s going to get popped and intellectually I know this (although I will query, damn it, even it I’ve kind of slipped my timeline, which had me querying on Valentine’s Day. In 2016).
Woodrowfan
I’m an academic so that is what I read and write. Thinking what to do for my third book. It has to be something I want to spend several years emersing myself into. Thought about writing an alternative history but never did. (I also write a regular column for a hobby publication.)
I did write some erotica once, but for a girlfriend and not for publication. Alternative history porn. That could be a possibility.
WereBear
Gosh, yes.
WereBear
Red Sneaker Books by William Bernhardt is a great collection of how tos: Theme, Character, Plotting — Mr WereBear loves them.
Snarkworth, short-fingered Bulgarian
@Marina: For query guidance, go to queryshark.blogspot.com. Writers submit their queries to be critiqued by agent Janet Reid (who blogs helpfully at jetreidliterary.blogspot.com). She of course tears them to shreds, but she is kind and constructive. You don’t have to submit your own; you learn a lot watching from the sidelines.
For info on which agents are looking for what, querytracker.net is a good place to start. Good luck!
Iowa Old Lady
@Woodrowfan: Are you saying history porn would work for your academic purposes? LOL. It’s true that in English depts., I’ve seen studies of Victorian porn, for instance. Go for it!
@Marina: I suspect queries can be organized in different ways and still work–or not. Agents and editors have individual quirks too. To me, the most important thing is making your book sound enticing.
No One You Know
@martian: I’m like that. I’m stuck in creative non-fiction. I’ve tried historical fiction–I really like reading it–and my plot kept wandering of into some paranormal thing I didn’t want to do. I can write well given a prompt; finding my way from there is a challenge. But I keep accumulating text snips, anyway!
West of the Rockies (been a while)
@Marina:
The thread, I think, is mostly dead, Marina. Please bring this up again next time earlier so you can get more responses because you’ve got a good question here.
Woodrowfan
@Iowa Old Lady: LOL. My school would freak. I’m thinking porn set in the past with historical figures. What perverse desires did Taft give into? Teddy Roosevelt, was he really a rough Rider? “Oh Woodrow, Edith gasped, “it’s too big.” “Relax” the president said as he dropped his pants to the floor. “I call it my league of Nations and soon you’ll be wanting to ratify the whole thing.”
Warren Harding smiled as “the dutchess” tightened the restraint s on his wrists. He’d been a bad boy and needed to be punished.
Major Major Major Major
Hey folks. I slept in. Enjoyed the discussion so far, but I want to get this out before I chime in with specifics :)
I am currently at the bottom of that chart. Even though I’m getting rave reviews. As such this will be rambling and might not actually address the topic.
I like genres. Anybody who is a regular reader of my blog, and I would be very surprised if that’s anybody other than my mom as I am not a regular writer of my blog, will know this. I especially like genre television, although I’m sure I would prefer the genre written word if somebody would be so kind as to make something that consists entirely of episodic chunks that I can read in 42 minutes each, with the occasional foray into 84-minute storyarcs. Myself, I tend to write subverted genre works that are nonetheless a paean to the genre in question. This means of course sticking to genres I happen to like, but that includes YA, cozy mysteries, procedurals, Germanic mythology, urban fantasy, spy thrillers…
I don’t write with much of an eye towards publishing. I’m a software engineer, and I’m good at it, and I like it, so I’ve already a great career locked down in (what I consider to be) a creative field. I also already have people who like to read what I write. That said, I’d still like to see a book on a shelf some day, so I write with an eye towards having an appropriate length. My drafting also tends to be rather loquacious, and this helps keep my finished product in the terser style I prefer.
I’m currently working on two pieces. In the first one, my main one, I cycle between 3.5 narrators, each of whom take a genre approach to the story. There’s a British buddy road comedy; a single professional woman navigating a particularly strange week at the office; a young apprentice on a Joseph Campbell hero’s journey; and a corporate Übermensch antagonist/antihero. I hew fairly closely to convention for each one of these, but having them all assembled together in chunks of 3000-4000 words makes for if nothing else an interesting writing exercise.
The second is hard-boiled buddy cop, with wizards. It takes a somewhat familiar shape. Starts with the private eye in trouble, flashes back to the leggy blonde that got him into this mess, back to present, solve immediate issue, proceed with mysteries. In this case, an actuary who is also a wizard gets blackmailed by a neighbor into helping with a supernatural issue she’s having. Well, he takes a shine to supernatural detective work, and then gets caught in the wizarding equivalent of a DUI and forced to attend a support group. Thus we open with, “Hi, my name’s Dennis, and I’m a wizard.” This is also being informed by the more lighthearted buddy-procedurals, so I want to have two normal mysteries they solve, one that escalates and ends with a prophecy, and then a third that wraps back around to the very first case they did together, etc. At the end we’re set up for recurring stories with an established buddy magic detective agency and an prophecy that is, uneasily, only partly-fulfilled.
Finally, I recommend Making Shapely Fiction by Jerome Stern as a how-to guide to the more nuts and bolts of the actual writing process.
Joyce H
@Hillary Rettig:
That’s an interesting perspective and I would love it to be true, because I want to branch out into other genres once I get this Regency unstuck and finished and published. But everything I’ve heard on the matter insists that the key to success is to pick a genre and STICK TO IT. Publish in that genre exclusively and grow your audience – the guidance I’ve heard is that when you switch genres, you have to start all over again growing a readership because the bulk of your current readership won’t follow you to the new genre. I don’t know this personally, because I haven’t yet done any genre hopping (my first couple books were mysteries, but they didn’t sell hardly at all, so barely count), but I’ve seen this advice in multiple places from many established indie authors.
WereBear
@Joyce H: What a person needs is a different pen name for each kind of work. It’s basic Branding.
I was reminded of this power when I was reading A Flash of Green by John D. MacDonald in a public lunchroom one day. A man approached me, asking if that was a Travis McGee. I said, “No, but it’s a mystery and it’s very good.”
He wandered away with a sad smile. That’s what we are dealing with. Same author, same genre; no sale.
mawado
@Josie: The folks from my local chapter of Historical Novel Society are my most valuable resource. Lot of helpful chatter about writing historical, research. Also been a good source of feedback and critiques.
West of the Rockies is a wide area, but Northern Cal chapter can be found here
mawado
Also, realize I was late to the party today, but I had a good experience with The Quill Magazine. They pay (very little) for short fiction and poetry. They just started up so don’t have a backlog of submissions and respond quickly. Plan on using it to beef up the bio section of my query.
My story is The Case
Good luck
Central Planning
When I taught a technology class at a local high school, the orientation person that talked to all new teachers had a similar diagram. It was called the “Trough of Disillusion”
The program was a 2-year cycle, so I got the kids through. Unfortunately, the guidance office was pretty bad there – You play computer games? You’ll love this computer technology class!
Greg
Current book I’m querying is Urban Fantasy. The next one I’m working on is a Fantasy novel taking place in a India subcontinent analog. . While I’m shopping those the next one will be Sci Fi.
Also, I’m willing to trade beta reading duties. Ping me at greg f mulka at gmail dot com. Mention balloon juice.
Josie
@mawado: Thanks for this. It looks to be a very valuable resource.
Applejinx
Buh, never any time, and I have to get writing.
Promised scrivener iOS news: basically, I’ve been using Scrivener on the Mac for the last book or two. Got the iPhone version. It’s good. $20 good? Mmmmmmaybe… I already had my stuff on a Dropbox, and that app on my phone. Got the iPhone Scrivener, and it was able to get stuff and work with it. I don’t have a data plan and was worried it would be inaccessible as soon as I didn’t have wi-fi, but surprise! Since it’s a local Dropbox mirror, I could still work with whatever I wanted. Very nice to discover!
I got home and tried to sync it: the Mac Scrivener stubbornly refused to get with the program. BUT, it needed updating. One update later, and boom: it was up to speed. It seems like it’s not instant, and I’ve made a backup of what I had before trying the phone-based thing. However, it does seem to work (it had better, at these app prices).
Got out my bluetooth keyboard: it’s going in my car, so that I can type better whilst on the road. That should be fun. If I can type my ellipses with option-semicolon that’ll be nice. I did notice, however, that when I typed triple-period on the phone Scrivener, it was already a proper ellipsis when I got back to it on the Mac Scrivener. The one thing I’m lacking on the purely phone interface is the ability to type tabs: I’m not sure what will do that, but I think the bluetooth keyboard will solve that part.
Hmph. Always too busy working, to catch the thread. ;P